0:00

Welcome to Speaking

0:02

of Sex with the Pleasure Mechanics.

0:04

I'm Chris from pleasuremechanics.com

0:07

and on this podcast we have honest,

0:10

explicit conversations about

0:13

sex, pleasure, and the joy

0:15

of connection. Come on over

0:17

to pleasuremechanics.com

0:19

where you will find all of our archived

0:22

podcast resources and all

0:24

of our online courses for when you

0:26

are ready to up-level your erotic

0:29

skills and go on new

0:31

erotic journeys. You'll find

0:33

it all at pleasuremechanics.com.

0:37

On today's episode we are welcoming back

0:39

to the podcast Dr. Alexandra

0:42

Solomon. She is a clinical

0:44

therapist, a professor,

0:47

and an author of some of our favorite books

0:49

about what it means to love bravely.

0:52

You'll find the links to

0:54

previous interviews with her in

0:56

the show notes. Today's episode

0:59

focuses on her new book

1:01

Love Every Day 365 Relational Self-Awareness

1:04

Practices to

1:08

Help Your Relationships Heal, Grow,

1:10

and Thrive. This book is a

1:13

rich offering of relational

1:15

self-awareness practices that

1:17

can incrementally transform

1:20

your ability to give and receive

1:22

love, to be in caring

1:25

mutual relationships, and

1:27

to be in deeper connection with

1:29

yourself,

1:29

your loved ones, and the world.

1:33

Please join us in welcoming back to

1:35

the podcast Dr. Alexandra

1:37

Solomon. Dr. Alexandra

1:39

Solomon welcome back to Speaking of

1:41

Sex. Thank you so much for being with

1:44

us. Some folks may have heard

1:46

our previous conversations but for

1:48

folks new to this conversation can you

1:50

please introduce yourself and the work you

1:52

do in this world.

1:54

I'm so happy to be sharing space and

1:56

time with both of you again so thank you so

1:58

much for this invitation. and

2:01

I'm so glad we're making it happen. So

2:03

yes, I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and

2:06

couples therapist by training, and

2:09

I've been in practice for 20-plus years, and

2:12

my work sort of moves between

2:15

the three corners of a triangle

2:17

of seeing individuals and couples at all stages of life

2:19

and relationship development, and

2:23

I've been an educator for many years on faculty

2:25

at Northwestern University, training master

2:28

students to do couples therapy and

2:30

teaching an undergraduate relationship and

2:33

sexuality education course called Building Loving

2:36

and Lasting Relationships Marriage 101 that Chris

2:38

was once a guest lecturer in, and

2:41

I loved having you there

2:43

with me in that course, and

2:45

then also a translator. So I translate

2:48

research and clinical wisdom into tools

2:51

for the general public,

2:51

and that takes the form of

2:54

my relationship self-help books and

2:57

e-courses

2:57

and social media work and podcasts,

3:00

and Chris is snuggling this new

3:02

book, Love Every Day, and yeah, that

3:05

is, I love, and I feel like each of those elements

3:07

really informs the others, but I tell you

3:09

what, I love the translation stuff because it puts

3:11

me in spaces like this in conversations like

3:13

this with the two of you. Mm-hmm.

3:16

And this most recent offering, Love

3:18

Every Day, 365 relational

3:22

self-awareness practices to

3:25

help your relationship heal, grow,

3:27

and thrive. Some

3:29

would call this a devotional, a daily

3:31

devotional. It's such a rich

3:34

offering,

3:34

and I'm curious, what

3:36

have you

3:37

learned in the classroom

3:39

setting, in the research, in

3:41

your clinical practice that

3:43

brings you home to this idea of daily

3:46

practice, of making it something we

3:48

do every day and not

3:50

a therapeutic intervention when

3:52

we're in full crisis? Mm-hmm.

3:54

Why practices? Yep.

3:58

Yep. I think... Well, I've

4:01

always been a lover of books. I feel,

4:03

I think that growing up in a family

4:05

system that didn't feel particularly safe or predictable,

4:08

my books were always super safe

4:10

and predictable and I always had lots of books

4:12

around me. So I think I'll always

4:14

be a writer of books, but I always have had a special

4:17

place in my heart for these daily

4:19

books. There's something that just feels so

4:22

generous for an author to offer you

4:24

a little something, something every single

4:26

day. And so it's been so fun now to be on the

4:28

giving end that I have always loved

4:31

receiving, these daily devotionals.

4:33

But yeah, as I dove

4:35

more deeply into this design, I

4:37

was like, oh, there are so many connections

4:39

here between how a

4:41

therapeutic journey works. Therapy

4:44

isn't the one insight

4:46

that offers the unitary

4:48

theory of why you are the way you are

4:50

and why your relationship is so, you know, it

4:53

is in all of the kind of mud and muck

4:58

and again and again and coming back and revisiting.

5:01

And so that idea of a healing

5:03

journey, being in small doses really

5:05

fits for me. And then the idea is you're

5:07

getting to have, our relationships

5:10

are not a status, it's not a check

5:12

the box and we are now a couple

5:15

and therefore that is what we are. It

5:17

is, as therapists like to say,

5:19

I'm sure the two of you like to say, love is a verb. It

5:22

is the actions and the

5:25

small little things. That's certainly what the research

5:27

shows. I know that this is

5:29

what the Gottman's research has shown us, that it is the

5:31

small daily practices, the things

5:33

that we say a bit differently, the things

5:35

that we don't say because they actually don't

5:38

need to be said and are not in the

5:40

service of our relationship. And so there's

5:42

also that kind of parallel

5:44

of these little practices. I

5:46

think especially when it comes to romantic relationships, we're

5:50

raised on this diet of like sweeping

5:52

gestures and grand declarations

5:54

that really aren't how

5:57

love works. I mean, certainly, lovely

6:00

whatever rose petal covered bed is a you know

6:02

very nice gesture but it doesn't count

6:04

more than you know

6:06

the little the little things like bringing up

6:09

feedback in a way that is gentle and where

6:11

our partners able to kind of hear it and take it

6:14

in so those are some opening

6:16

thoughts I have I'm curious how those land for the

6:18

two of you yeah

6:20

I love that I feel like so many people

6:22

of course want to work on their relationship and put

6:24

some intention into it but finding

6:26

the time and space to do that can be so challenging

6:29

and I

6:30

love how this book allows for

6:31

just these nuggets

6:34

each day that are really dense and

6:36

that you do kind of need to digest and

6:38

be with so I feel like the design

6:40

is so intentional and so beautiful I'm

6:42

curious about how you want people

6:45

to use it I know when we first got

6:47

it we opened it up to our birthdays

6:49

and it felt like an oracle why are

6:51

you coming after me like

6:54

this on my birthday no like okay have

7:05

it near my office I was like okay she's like absorb

7:07

this and I

7:09

love that yeah the daily

7:11

devotion what's coming to return to how

7:14

are you thinking of

7:15

people using it yeah

7:17

well Charlotte I'm glad that we're I'm glad

7:20

that you're highlighting like the kind of density

7:22

or the like charge of these entries

7:24

and thank God you only do one a day because there

7:27

is a lot to sit with and I want couples

7:29

or individuals to have a ton of permission

7:32

to work on one entry for a week

7:34

or a month you know this is not

7:37

it's not the 2023 or 2024 book you get to

7:40

have this book for as long as you want

7:42

to have this book and so there's no there's

7:45

no need to pace and when one of the entries

7:47

hits you like that just give

7:50

yourself time to digest it and sit

7:52

with it and work with it and let it kind of wash

7:55

over you and through you this is not a race

7:57

I think for some of us either

8:00

Because we feel like we've come to this work

8:02

a bit later in our lives or because there's

8:05

quite a bit of relational pain, we

8:07

can feel like we got to dive in. It has to be every

8:09

day. It has to be journaling. It has to be. It

8:11

has to be. And we know that our systems

8:13

just can't hold that much. We

8:16

think about like a sponge. There's a fixed amount

8:18

that

8:18

a sponge can hold. And

8:21

so faster isn't better.

8:23

I think that's true with you or with the work that the two of you

8:25

offer the world, right?

8:27

More and faster isn't

8:30

better.

8:31

That slow down

8:33

and savor thing, right? And

8:37

that's why I love the design that it's like

8:40

every day so that you can return to it year

8:42

after year because as you said, some

8:44

of these practices presumably take quite a bit

8:46

of time to really sink in and

8:48

become real in our life. Right. It's

8:50

not a tear away calendar either. Right. That

8:53

you do once every day. Yeah. And

8:55

I'm curious what you've seen in your experience

8:57

as a therapist

8:58

in terms of these practices and the time

9:00

that they take

9:01

to really sink in for people. Like

9:04

growth and behavioral change takes time.

9:07

And how do you relate to that? Yeah.

9:09

What's a realistic goal there? How

9:12

do we think about that for ourselves and

9:14

the kind of urgency of want

9:16

of change sometimes and the

9:18

patience it takes to allow for it?

9:20

Yeah.

9:22

I think that one of the most important

9:24

things that individuals and couples

9:26

can do is really like

9:29

develop the ability

9:31

to notice the one

9:32

degree of difference, right? Because it's

9:35

like our relationships are these cycles. You

9:37

know, we have there

9:39

may be a new variation on this theme

9:41

because now there's a

9:43

sick parent or now there's a child

9:46

with a challenge

9:49

in their lives. Like the context may change,

9:51

the content might change, but similar

9:53

themes around in a moment like

9:55

this, I feel like you begin to. And

9:57

in a moment like this, I feel like you begin to. there's

10:00

sort of the thematic elements

10:02

that may look a little different because the context

10:05

is different. So that can give

10:07

couples a sense of like, oh here we go again, it's

10:09

the same thing we always do. And

10:11

so one of the best things we can do is develop

10:14

that sense of like what's the little little

10:16

little way that this went different? What's the one

10:18

degree of difference that we had in this conversation

10:21

versus two years ago versus

10:24

six months ago? Like just and then savoring

10:27

to use a pleasure

10:29

mechanics term, savoring

10:32

the heck out of that and really celebrating

10:35

this little way that we

10:36

were different. And I think that it's it's

10:38

hard, those can be really hard to notice and

10:42

what a generous offering it is to your partner to say

10:44

it meant so much to me that

10:46

you stepped away before you raised your voice. I know

10:48

how hard that's been for you. It meant so much to me. I

10:50

saw the deep breath that you took before

10:53

you responded. That meant so much to me. Like

10:55

noticing it in each other and noticing

10:58

it within ourselves. You know, this sort of hand on the heart

11:00

and I know exactly how I would have handled

11:02

this a year ago or five years ago.

11:05

So I think that's it is holding

11:07

that tension of we're going

11:09

to continue to have issues

11:11

and dynamics and patterns and right

11:14

that both and of these patterns are

11:16

still here, these tendencies are still here and

11:18

I'm watching me and you and

11:20

us finesse them a bit differently

11:23

than we used to. Well

11:26

you speak to us about that me and you

11:28

and us thing about relationships,

11:31

right? Because even this term relational self-awareness,

11:34

there's such

11:36

an emphasis sometimes on relationship

11:38

relationship and sometimes we mean the one relationship,

11:41

right? Like the marriage. When all

11:43

of us are relational beings in many relationships

11:47

and within

11:47

that the self,

11:48

right? And so how do these practices

11:51

focus

11:52

on self

11:54

and do you actually need to be

11:56

in a couple to engage in this work or

11:58

can we bring this work?

11:59

to all of our relationships in

12:02

all of the facets of our lives, right?

12:04

Yeah, I mean that's something that I definitely

12:06

come back to again and again is that for

12:09

the most part just about anything

12:11

I say about a couple dynamic can be

12:13

translated to a friendship, you

12:16

know, a relationship with a family member, sibling,

12:18

loved one, you know, there are definitely things

12:20

that are that stand apart about

12:22

intimate relationships but it is, but

12:25

I think that to your point Chris, I think that what's

12:27

true in a relationship with a partner can be true

12:29

in other parts. I mean we take ourselves

12:32

with us, we are the through line in all of

12:35

our relationships

12:35

and so yeah the

12:38

idea of relational self-awareness is just

12:41

a reminder to all of us that we do this deep

12:43

inner work

12:44

for ourselves in our own healing and

12:48

so that we can create relationships

12:50

that really feel nourishing

12:53

where we can nourish people in our

12:55

lives and feel nourished

12:57

by them. So it's not like a sort of navel-gazy,

13:00

you

13:01

know, working on myself

13:04

kind of idea, it is working on myself in the

13:06

service of

13:07

the relationships with the people

13:09

that I love but I know, I mean

13:12

what I know to be true, at least

13:14

in my own life, is

13:17

my relationship, I think this is true for all of us, my relationship

13:19

with myself sets the stage. I know that I am,

13:22

if I've

13:22

been particularly, if I'm struggling with self-compassion

13:25

for example and I've got lots of like chatter

13:27

in my head about

13:29

whatever, my body, my work,

13:31

how I'm showing up as a mom, I will

13:34

hear my husband's comments

13:37

as far more critical than they are. You know, a

13:39

neutral, what anybody else would comment,

13:41

you know, would code as a neutral comment will

13:44

land critically to me, right, because

13:47

I'm being cruel to myself

13:49

and so then I expect and I hear

13:51

cruelty in the world around

13:52

me as the Polyvagal

13:55

people like Deb Dana would say, you know, your state

13:58

determines your story so when

13:59

I... I'm in a self-critical place. My story

14:02

is that

14:02

everybody is judging me and my husband

14:05

is judging me. And you know, there's, so

14:07

that like working within myself

14:10

is in the service of how I connect

14:12

with others.

14:13

And take us into that moment,

14:14

right? Because the first moment there's recognizing

14:18

it, that awareness of catching ourselves

14:20

in a pattern, what is the next

14:22

practice there? Is it saying

14:25

out loud to your husband that

14:27

this is how you're perceiving it? Is it

14:29

taking time to reset? Like, how

14:32

do you relate to that? What do you

14:34

need to do internally versus bring

14:36

to the table of a relationship and the

14:38

work between you?

14:40

This happened last night actually. I'll

14:44

tell you how I played out last night.

14:45

I'm

14:49

dealing with a pretty extraordinary stressor

14:52

in my sort of family of origin system.

14:55

And that, I think

14:57

that

14:59

dealing with that stressor brings

15:01

up stuff in me about the

15:03

quality of the job that I'm doing. How am I showing

15:05

up as a daughter right now? Am I doing enough?

15:07

And there's, I have a lot of anxiety about that.

15:10

And so I'm aware that

15:12

there's some self-critical chatter about am

15:14

I doing enough? And what's, you know, what does a good

15:16

daughter do in a moment like this? And

15:19

I, you know, I was, Todd did something

15:21

that was really benign, something he does just

15:23

about every day. I

15:26

found it to be quite triggering. The details

15:28

don't matter.

15:29

And I said to him, I'm feeling

15:32

a little flooded. It was

15:35

clear enough to me, this is me, not you, because he

15:37

was really quite literally just doing what he always

15:39

does. I was just responding to it differently because

15:41

of my own stuff in this moment.

15:43

And I said, I'm going to step away. I don't want

15:45

to say something right now that,

15:48

you know, I'm going to regret or is going to make

15:50

a relational mess on top of everything

15:53

else going on. So I did. I recognized

15:55

it and I said it out loud, not before

15:57

I made a schnarky comment, but it was

15:59

only one. One snarky comment, I caught

16:01

it, I owned it. I

16:05

patted myself on the back, I didn't make an entire

16:07

mess, I just made a little mess. We

16:09

will continue our conversation with Dr.

16:11

Solomon after taking a moment to thank

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pleasuremechanics.com slash

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toolbox. I feel like you've talked

19:08

about how relationship and

19:11

sexual issues are like a

19:13

relationship issue, not it's like a wee problem,

19:15

a wee thing to fix instead of an individual

19:18

thing. And

19:20

I feel like that's such a helpful framing.

19:22

How would

19:23

the two of you

19:24

put that in your language? Like, yeah, I really

19:27

do

19:31

want, even though sometimes

19:34

there is a way that we can locate a problem

19:36

inside of a body, it is still a relationship

19:39

problem. It is how I feel about

19:41

this challenge that's arising inside of your body

19:43

or how the two of us navigate it together. But

19:45

how would the two of

19:48

you frame that connection between sexual

19:50

problems as relationship

19:52

problems?

19:54

I'm thinking of the whole picture of that discernment

19:56

of knowing like the you, the me, the

19:59

we. also the bigger we have,

20:01

right, the culture at large, social

20:03

pressures, the context,

20:05

right? So much of this goes back to kind of

20:07

recognizing the context we're in and

20:09

then what we as an organism are reacting to.

20:14

And I think I've more and more just really

20:16

been practicing around this line of discernment

20:20

and getting more and more clear. And sometimes

20:22

that's through conversation and sometimes it's just

20:24

a check-in and we know,

20:27

right, sometimes sexual relationships are very

20:29

much a we and sometimes it's a very much like

20:31

I am bringing this in me, I am reacting

20:34

to something that has nothing to do with you. And

20:37

by saying that it's almost like an invitation in,

20:39

right? And we're going to learn

20:42

about one another through this process.

20:44

I'm going to let you take care of me in this moment

20:47

maybe a little bit and come

20:49

back to a we

20:50

that is safe and connected and communicating

20:54

clearly, right? And

20:56

the over and over again-ness of

20:58

this, right? And that's why it looks like this

21:01

thing to my heart because, you

21:03

know, we can return to these things. You know,

21:05

Charlotte and I just celebrated our 17-year

21:07

anniversary and we

21:10

gave each other big high fives

21:12

for the growth and then we are like,

21:14

I'm still those children we were when

21:18

we fell in love at 25. We are still

21:20

at 42 and we

21:22

know

21:22

each other so well we can kind of discern these

21:25

moments of like what's going

21:27

on. But then also in our poly journey

21:29

now,

21:29

right, we have the opportunity to love new people

21:32

and see so much of what is ours

21:34

that we bring and shows up in the different

21:37

reflections in this amazing interconnected

21:39

humanity thing. It's the kind of

21:42

space to see where it's like, oh, this is

21:44

me doing this again. So it's a

21:46

fascinating space to really have

21:48

to see that really clearly.

21:51

You're running a little experiment. I love your work,

21:53

that relational self-awareness, right, because it is

21:55

an eroticism of the

21:57

me, the you, the we, the space in between.

22:00

and what that connection brings up,

22:02

what energy is at surfaces, and

22:05

what we find there, right? The

22:07

treasure trove of this, sometimes we call

22:09

it the inner work and the therapy, and it feels

22:11

so heavy,

22:12

where for me this

22:13

is practices of liberation and freedom,

22:17

and we move towards joy

22:20

and pleasure and

22:20

connection, and

22:22

the depths of intimacy we have to experience

22:25

when we release ourselves from these patternings,

22:28

most of which were never our choice in the first place,

22:31

so much of how we react to one another, like

22:34

as you said, family of origin things, early

22:36

childhood trauma, social

22:38

and cultural intergenerational traumas,

22:41

which so many of my friends are sitting so

22:43

heavy with right now, right? Yes. What

22:46

does it mean to be part of a people? Yeah.

22:49

And that relationality

22:53

is what comes to the surface with relational

22:55

self-awareness practice. That's

22:58

right. And who am I in this huge family of humanity,

23:01

the humbleness of that?

23:03

Well, and that the process

23:06

is far more important than the outcome, because

23:08

I don't know, like in the example I gave about last

23:10

night, that was a really clear one, right? That one

23:12

was a very clearly Alexandra issue,

23:15

you know? It is, and

23:18

that doesn't free Todd, I would like

23:20

Todd support in his patients and his compassion,

23:22

et cetera, et cetera, but that was a me, but

23:25

so often in these relational

23:27

dynamics, as both of you are speaking

23:29

to, we don't, it is, we're

23:31

not going to ever know what percentage is

23:33

the me, what percentage is the you, what percentage is

23:35

the we, the culture, and we don't actually

23:38

in fact need to, because it is the process

23:40

of like peeling back a layer, looking

23:43

together at it, that is so

23:45

intimacy promoting, and that opens

23:47

up

23:47

new possibilities of how we see ourselves

23:50

and how we see the other. So it's

23:52

not, sometimes there is like an outcome

23:55

of like, sweet, we figured it out, now we can do this

23:57

differently, but oftentimes, most of the

23:59

time,

23:59

There really isn't a neat tidy

24:02

equation or formula or pie chart

24:04

that shows us what's actually

24:07

really going

24:07

on, but we don't need to hold on to a desire

24:10

to understand objective reality

24:12

if we trust

24:14

how much intimacy emerges from a

24:16

curious

24:17

process of what do you think

24:19

it is about your life experience that would

24:22

lead you to respond in this way? Help me understand

24:25

what comes up for you in a moment like this. That's

24:28

where the good stuff is.

24:30

Such a generous and compassionate

24:32

approach

24:34

just to bring that curiosity and be in

24:36

an inquiry together and

24:38

not be focused on getting it right or having

24:41

an exact answer. I love that.

24:43

And then, I'm curious you began

24:46

talking about love as a verb. I'm curious

24:48

as you were pulling all of this

24:50

knowledge together and curating it,

24:52

right?

24:53

This is a really generous curation

24:55

of so much. What are some other verbs

24:58

that stuck out as practices? What

25:00

were some of the verbs that emerged for you? I

25:04

know that there's one entry in there. Lord knows what date

25:07

it is. It's all about the power

25:09

of the re. Revisit,

25:12

re-examine, redo. So

25:18

that's not a verb, but that's that idea

25:20

of how much compassion there is when

25:22

we allow ourselves.

25:23

Like redo is a

25:25

big one, right? Even just

25:27

saying, I'd like a redo. I

25:30

don't like the tone I just used when

25:32

I spoke to you. And sometimes

25:34

even humorously walking out of the room,

25:36

reset in the face,

25:38

coming back in for

25:40

the redo. There's so much generosity

25:43

and grace in that. So

25:45

redo, revisit. I

25:47

think that's a very powerful. So revisit

25:50

and pause kind of go together. For

25:52

me, I think that we often,

25:55

I think there's a number of reasons,

25:57

but so often. and

26:00

I think couples especially want

26:02

to have a whole conversation,

26:04

have a beginning, a middle, and an end to

26:06

a conversation. And

26:09

that's oftentimes just not possible or

26:11

in order to have that kind of endurance

26:13

in a conversation, we have to override

26:16

so many cues from our bodies that

26:18

we actually end up kind of constricting

26:22

our fullness to stay in a

26:24

conversation. So I'm a big fan

26:26

of the pause, the revisit that

26:29

is loving not avoidant. And for those

26:31

of us who grew up in a family where that was

26:33

what happened, shut down, walk away, icy

26:35

silence, it can feel re-traumatizing,

26:38

but there's something so loving about saying,

26:41

my sponge is full, I'm aware

26:43

I feel that I can feel these cues

26:45

in my body that I'm no longer

26:47

in this conversation able to show up how I want

26:50

to show up, how you deserve me to

26:52

show up, how this relationship deserves, you know, so

26:55

smaller conversations. So pause

26:57

and revisit I think are powerful verbs

26:59

too.

27:00

I said to a lover the other night, can we just rest

27:03

in knowing that we care about one another and

27:06

take a moment and hold one another's hands

27:08

and put a pin in it, right? Or

27:11

sometimes Charlie's talking about parking lot it, like,

27:13

yeah, put it in the parking lot,

27:15

we acknowledge it's there, and

27:18

we're going to circle back. Yeah.

27:20

There's so much. I love the rewind, which

27:22

is kind of what you were talking about, like the

27:24

literal returning back and then like, rewinding

27:26

the tape and starting it. Yeah.

27:31

One way to bring the conjunctions in, right? Because he is

27:33

like, we recognize that every verb, it's like

27:35

how we're doing it now, how we used to do

27:37

it, and how we intend to do it in the future. And

27:40

we can time travel together through conversations.

27:44

One of the things Charlotte and I have been doing a lot is pre-gaming,

27:47

especially

27:47

with Pauline,

27:49

like how would you feel if

27:52

we took two separate cars home after

27:54

the dance party? And we can feel

27:56

into multiple possibilities

27:58

and so much.

27:59

what our work has been about recently is, you know,

28:02

feeling into our bodies truths

28:04

and what we're, you know, the wisdom that

28:06

speaks from inside us, the data, I think

28:08

you call it. Yeah. That's

28:10

not a data that can inform our

28:13

sense of selves who we know ourselves to be

28:16

what we want our needs and boundaries.

28:19

And as you said, that contraction that we can feel

28:22

right, it's like you automatically feel right

28:24

away, no, that's not going to work for me.

28:26

And so we can fast forward the

28:28

tape as much as we can rewind it to. Yes,

28:30

I love that. Yeah.

28:31

Right. So right.

28:34

Well, and, and it's such a, it's

28:36

what a loving gesture to, to pre pregame.

28:39

I love that. It's a little different than how

28:41

my daughter at college pregame

28:44

thing on a college camp. I said, there's not

28:46

so much about imagining what might happen as

28:48

it is. That

28:53

it is, you're using the power of your imaginations.

28:55

And it is saying, we don't, we don't know,

28:58

right? We don't know how this moment

29:00

might feel, but it is inviting a

29:02

kind of imaginative process where

29:04

there might be some really clear somatic

29:07

data of like, Oof, I feel that as a no, or

29:09

I imagine that would be a yes.

29:12

So that's a beautiful practice of the fast

29:15

forwarding

29:15

to

29:16

anticipate and not, it's

29:19

not,

29:20

it's not as a means of

29:23

control

29:24

or management. It's a, it's

29:26

a,

29:26

I hear a generosity in the way that I imagine

29:28

the two of you do this. Like let's play this out.

29:31

How might this feel for you? Totally. Like what

29:33

is the right action to take for this particular

29:35

situation? One particular moment we

29:37

liked it four different possibilities.

29:40

One made me burst into tears in. Okay.

29:42

Good. We were like, Oh, I'm glad we figured that out

29:44

right now. And one

29:46

made me feel excited and curious. And

29:48

we chose that one. And it was so

29:50

useful to go ahead of time and just have

29:53

that whole range, seeing comfy, having coffee

29:55

in bed, discussing it

29:56

instead of like in the moment. Yeah.

30:00

I could imagine a couple using that as

30:02

they go into a holiday gathering, especially a

30:05

couple who's just getting to know each

30:07

other's families of origin kind of playing out. Like,

30:10

okay, so if my uncle makes a comment,

30:13

what would advocacy in that moment

30:15

look

30:15

like? Or what, you know, just sort of

30:17

like

30:17

forecasting, looking ahead. Forecasting,

30:21

I love that. I love that. And

30:24

we're talking about the generosity that can happen in

30:26

these conversations. Well, you talked to us about

30:28

reluctant partners. We

30:31

often get emails from folks who are ready

30:33

for change, aching and yearning,

30:35

and

30:35

they find themselves

30:38

with a reluctant partner,

30:40

sometimes even described as stubbornly,

30:42

you know, in a rut, wedded

30:45

to that rut. What do

30:47

you do when only one out of two people

30:49

in the couple is willing to participate?

30:53

Well, I would love to hear your

30:55

thoughts about this as well, because I think it's a question

30:57

that I get so, so, so often

31:00

as well. I don't

31:02

think there are a lot of easy answers. And I think

31:04

that there's a spectrum, right,

31:07

as you're naming sort of reluctance to

31:09

absolute stubborn refusal.

31:12

And I really want, I

31:15

want the ready

31:16

partner to

31:18

really try to discern where on that

31:20

sort of imaginative spectrum

31:23

does your partner fall? Because the ready partner,

31:26

because of a fear or an urgency, might

31:29

be reading their partner as stubbornly refusing,

31:31

when in fact they might just be needing

31:34

a little more zhuzh and a little more, you know,

31:36

kind of warm up and gentleness. So

31:38

that's one piece of it is right, can

31:41

our ready partner kind of quiet

31:43

themselves enough and open themselves up enough

31:46

to really understand where is my partner

31:48

at versus the fear

31:50

I have that my partner is all

31:53

the way over here on this end of the spectrum, when in

31:55

fact they might be like, no, no, no, I'm not a

31:57

hard no, I just am.

31:59

scared or really worried about disappointing.

32:02

I think so often that reluctant partner

32:04

is afraid to try anything

32:06

for fear of disappointing the

32:09

ready partner. And Chris, I see your

32:11

hand going up because there is, right? It is like such a well

32:14

because so often our reluctant partner comes

32:16

by their reluctance real honestly. And

32:18

there's a lot of words we're throwing around a lot lately about

32:21

narcissism and avoidantly attached and

32:23

emotionally unavailable that I think really oftentimes

32:26

do a disservice to a partner who just

32:29

is in the baby

32:31

end of the pool because they

32:34

have not been socialized in a way where they have

32:36

been taught anything about their own internal

32:39

world. They don't have language

32:40

for their feelings. They're not shut

32:42

down. They are just needing

32:45

some context and practice

32:47

around this. And it does not mean that our ready partner

32:50

does

32:50

not mean it's the ready partner's job

32:52

and responsibility to be their teacher educator

32:55

coach. But

32:57

it does mean that there's a difference I think between

33:00

inexperienced with self-work

33:03

and

33:03

curious conversation and

33:06

contemptuous of self-work

33:09

and curious conversation.

33:15

The Solomon wisdom is flowing. Love.

33:19

That's so real.

33:21

I think naming that fear of disappointment,

33:25

fear of change, sometimes

33:27

I think within a love relationship it can be like,

33:30

well, I know it's messy, but it's our mess.

33:33

The fear of losing that connection

33:36

if it were to change rather

33:38

than getting closer and putting that on the table.

33:43

I think resignation is a big thing that happens too.

33:45

And I love your idea that just the smallest 1%

33:48

change actually is significant and

33:50

makes a difference because you think about that 1% over

33:52

many years and it actually is quite significant

33:56

and the idea that we can just build these,

33:58

build change and practices. really

34:00

slowly and in small ways, I think

34:02

can be really, really helpful. And

34:04

that that can happen from just one person taking

34:07

on making small change. Like

34:09

if someone really

34:10

is checked out from that, that there

34:12

is there is

34:14

change that can happen with one

34:16

person, of course, taking a team approach

34:18

will be more effective

34:20

or speedier, perhaps, but I'm thinking

34:22

of the massage correlate, right of

34:25

what can be offered enthusiastically?

34:28

And honestly, is

34:30

it a five minute foot rub? And

34:32

that's what's real between you right

34:34

now. So sometimes

34:37

these conversations, it's like, let's just

34:39

walk the dog together every night this

34:41

week and see what happens. Yeah, or

34:43

go for a

34:44

long drive. What

34:46

is a place we can meet?

34:48

Rather than

34:50

we're going to do a practice every day, every all

34:52

year, right? Or

34:54

throw the book at one another and say just open to any

34:56

random page and let's discuss what comes up. Because

34:59

it feels less targeted.

35:00

And it's not like we're going to work on your

35:02

core issue with your mother right now, right?

35:05

Right? Yeah. The Oracle approach

35:07

with whatever comes up is okay for today.

35:10

Right. And that and

35:12

I would want in that in

35:14

that I think that is that is spot on. And

35:17

in that, like in choosing

35:20

that approach, I want

35:22

our ready partner to allow themselves to grieve a bit,

35:24

right to grieve that I know I want this much

35:27

and I know this much is available. So letting like

35:29

making space for grief,

35:31

having a sense of pride that I

35:33

know how much I want. And I'm so proud

35:36

of my, of my ability

35:38

to really savor what's

35:40

available to me right now that that's not

35:42

necessarily an abandonment of self,

35:45

but a but an

35:48

appreciation of and a capitalizing on

35:51

what is possible in this moment,

35:53

not forever, but for now, like

35:56

that to take what's available now and

35:58

to work within what's available

35:59

now in the hopes of being able to expand

36:02

it, it's

36:03

beautiful. I think there's a way in which I think

36:05

we can get scared that we're self-abandoning or we're

36:07

settling. And

36:10

I think that I would want someone to just also be able

36:12

to notice how much courage there is

36:15

in that of working within what's possible

36:17

and perhaps also reminding

36:20

oneself about everything else

36:23

that is

36:24

beautiful and

36:25

cherishable about this relationship. But

36:29

tell me about that because I think there can be. I think

36:32

there can be a time when it does become self-abandonment

36:35

to the point of resentment where

36:37

I'm not doing anybody any favors by acting

36:40

as if this is enough. And

36:42

I think that line is hard to feel into.

36:45

I just really love how you

36:47

make space for so much messiness

36:49

while always bringing the intense

36:53

compassion. And the combination

36:56

is so beautiful and I think so what we need.

36:58

Do you know what I mean? Just

37:00

in order to be with what is

37:02

and how do we keep molding

37:04

it and shaping it and playing with it and working

37:07

with it and dancing with it.

37:09

Yeah. Yeah. And that

37:11

word that comes up in a lot of your work is brave.

37:14

Why don't we be brave with love?

37:17

That's the daily

37:19

practice especially in this world right now. How

37:22

do we live with open hearts? How do we be

37:24

brave with our love? How do we

37:26

be bold in our healing right?

37:31

In order to dream into

37:33

relationships and intimacy and

37:35

a world of loving every day that

37:38

we may never have experienced

37:40

in our life yet. And that's been so much of building

37:42

a family with Charlotte. It's building

37:44

a version of family where we

37:47

all feel safe every day where we

37:49

bravely love one another and stay

37:52

on that edge of growth together.

37:56

And to be reminded that these are practices

37:58

we come back to day in.

37:59

and day out, right? Even the pleasure

38:02

mechanics need this reminder. Thank

38:04

you so much for this book and all

38:07

of the rich wisdom it offers. There

38:09

will be links in the show notes and at

38:11

pleasuremechanics.com backslash

38:13

Solomon, where

38:15

you will find all of the

38:16

resources and ways you can learn more with our

38:18

dear friend, Dr. Alexander Solomon. Thank

38:21

you so much for joining us today.

38:23

Thank you, Charlotte and Chris. It was wonderful

38:25

to be with you always. I love

38:26

the way in which my

38:30

heart and my mind both feel really engaged

38:32

when we're in conversation with each other. Thank

38:34

you for all of what the two of you do.

38:36

I mean, you're my gosh. I mean, when you, you

38:39

know, the compassion that you spoke

38:41

to in terms of my work, I feel in

38:44

everything that the two of you create. There's so

38:46

much care and so much compassion

38:48

and so much permission and everything that

38:51

the two of you do. It's your integrity shines

38:53

through and all of your offerings and

38:55

we are we are better for having

38:58

having the two of your work in the world. So

39:00

thank you. Right back to you.

39:02

Thank you. Big

39:04

thanks to Dr. Solomon for

39:06

being here with us today and discussing

39:08

the importance of practicing

39:11

love every day.

39:13

If you want to go deeper with Dr. Solomon,

39:16

go to pleasuremechanics.com slash 101

39:20

and you will find her courses and offerings.

39:23

We love you every day. We are here

39:26

for you every day. Our resources

39:29

are available for you and

39:31

we are here for you. Reach out, be

39:33

in touch at pleasuremechanics.com.

39:37

I'm Chris from pleasuremechanics.com

39:38

wishing you a

39:40

lifetime

39:41

of pleasure. Cheers.

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you

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you you