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1:36

Hello,

1:36

I'm Sophia Lisbexter, and welcome

1:39

to Spinning Plates, the podcast where

1:41

I speak to busy working women who also happen

1:43

to be mothers about how they make it work.

1:46

I'm a singer, and I've released seven albums in

1:48

between having my five sons aged 16 months

1:51

to 16 years, so I spin a few

1:53

plates myself. Being a mother can be

1:55

the most amazing thing, but can also

1:57

be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions.

1:59

I want to be a bit mosey and see how

2:02

other people can understand everything. Welcome

2:04

to the mini place. Hey

2:09

guys, I can't guarantee this is going to be

2:11

as quiet as I've been lucky enough to be recently

2:13

because I'm doing this in the

2:15

same as Mickey. Mickey, do you want to give a shout out? Do

2:17

you want to say hi? Hi. There

2:20

you go. It's Saturday,

2:23

just after lunch, tidy

2:26

up the kitchen. Sometimes when

2:28

it's lunchtime, I end up doing a slight

2:30

cafe service, which I didn't mean to do. So there

2:32

were three variables of what

2:35

I left last day, but a lot

2:37

of leftovers got eaten and that's all good. I actually

2:41

got a funny thing this week where I could not think I

2:43

wanted to make this up for kids

2:45

and I, and I actually used my kids book as

2:47

an idea of what to do.

2:49

And I did the chili and now it hasn't operated and you know

2:51

what? It turns out really well. And I've got

2:53

a few meals

2:54

out of it. Sorry, that's me tidying up. So

2:59

this week, well, I've recorded,

3:02

oh, I've done another three podcast

3:04

episodes this week. So I'm feeling pretty good

3:06

because basically when

3:08

I started doing the podcast, I had no idea

3:11

how long I was going to do it for. So

3:13

I basically have to trick myself. And

3:16

what I do is I always start recording

3:19

the next series, not giving myself

3:21

time to think. And that way it sort of ties me in like,

3:23

oh, I've got to finish the 10 now. So

3:25

with that in mind, I've done a couple that will be part

3:28

of series. What's the next

3:30

one? Is it 13 or 12?

3:33

Anyway, that one. So that's

3:35

good. A couple of really great chats.

3:37

And I really loved today's

3:40

guests. So I'm going to introduce

3:44

you to conversation. Well, where to say

3:46

it. I'm going to play you. What

3:48

am I doing? You're about

3:50

to hear. Sorry,

3:52

this is what happens when I distract myself. We're doing, trying

3:54

to do two things at once. My brain is not sophisticated enough. In

3:58

a minute, you will hear my conversation. Charlotte

4:00

Hawkins. So, Charlotte and I

4:02

met through the Good Morning

4:04

Britain. What's wrong, Mickey? Mickey,

4:07

you do not need that much mayonnaise. Mickey's

4:09

a condiment king like me, a

4:12

condiment queen. He's got ketchup and mayonnaise,

4:14

and he's put in quite a lot for about two chips

4:16

left. That was all there were. Yeah,

4:20

so I met Charlotte on Good Morning

4:22

Britain, and I go in early morning, and

4:24

she's always very friendly and very lovely, and

4:28

over the years I would see her out and about

4:30

stuff, we would get chatting, and

4:32

she's always seemed like a really, really

4:35

lovely woman, and what I

4:38

think is so lovely and

4:40

warm about

4:40

Charlotte is that she

4:43

always looks so youthful

4:45

and immaculate, but

4:48

she's also a very real

4:50

person, and I don't mean that that sounds like a really

4:52

dismissive thing, and I don't mean it like that. It's

4:54

just I think sometimes when people always

4:56

look so gorgeous and

4:59

well turned out, you sort of feel like they are

5:02

going to always give you the, you know, that's

5:04

the version of themselves they put out, but actually, Charlotte,

5:07

as you're hearing her chat, she speaks about, she

5:11

has had a lovely dad, he

5:14

got diagnosed with motor neurone disease and

5:17

died just a month before she

5:19

had her first baby. She also speaks

5:21

about how hard it was to have her first

5:23

baby. I'm really grateful

5:25

to her for being so open about it, and

5:29

yeah, we had such a nice conversation.

5:32

She'd been up since 2.45, because

5:36

that's what time she has to get up, and

5:38

I mean, she's very tolerant of

5:40

me asking all the same questions that everybody must

5:42

ask all the time about, you know,

5:45

sleep

5:45

and routine, but I think if

5:47

you do breakfast news, you're just thinking, wow,

5:49

how does that work? How

5:51

does that work? Because you know, there's a whole

5:53

world out there, there are people

5:54

who do night shifts and early

5:56

starts and all of this, but

5:58

I think for the majority of us.

5:59

that's not the life we're living. And life is so

6:02

set up for everything

6:04

happening at certain times of the day, you know,

6:06

the expectation that most people are getting

6:08

up at work. Seven, 7.30? Kind

6:12

of the way the world works, isn't it? Imagine

6:14

if you're actually getting, Charlotte

6:17

said she goes to bed just after her

6:19

daughter at about eight

6:21

or nine, then she's up at 2.45, so

6:24

even then, that's not that much sleep. It's not like she's getting

6:26

like 10 hours or something. What

6:28

is that? Six

6:32

and a half hours of eat. That's

6:34

not very much. Anyway,

6:36

yeah, lovely conversation.

6:39

And what else have I got to tell you about? I'm

6:41

just filling the dish with you at the same

6:42

time.

6:45

Try to think. No, I think

6:47

mainly this week has just been

6:49

about settling and trying

6:51

to get settled into the new, the new

6:54

new of all the new schools. So the home

6:56

life stuff has been a little bit more changed

6:58

than we've had for, oh golly, ages

7:01

actually. It's been a really big shift

7:03

of a clunk into a new gear. And

7:06

I'm also starting to put in place some songwriting

7:09

sessions for my new album. I'm really excited,

7:12

I can't wait. Actually,

7:14

I'm

7:15

gonna do some songwriting

7:16

with a friend of mine called Hannah Robinson,

7:18

who I used to work with a lot around

7:20

the time of my third and fourth album,

7:22

I think. These are things like me and my imagination

7:25

and bits of sweet together. And I

7:28

was saying to her, oh, I wanna write songs that

7:31

reflect where I'm at in life. And

7:33

basically we started winding each other up

7:36

and then came to the conclusion that my new album

7:38

should be called Perry Menopop.

7:40

Sort of like the Perry Menopause or Women's. I

7:43

tell you, do you want to pop music?

7:44

Don't worry, I am joking. I'm

7:46

gonna head in the, we're gonna go in the garden, Mickey.

7:49

What do you wanna do in the garden?

7:51

Um, yeah, simple.

7:54

Like that. My sweet, the cabot.

7:58

The cabot, okay.

7:59

here. I bought

8:01

some care beds off eBay. I

8:03

think it was got on. We're bringing them outside while

8:05

we're playing. Perfect. We

8:07

can line them all up. Can I have

8:09

some for me? Well are you in the garden? Yes,

8:13

I will see you on the other side. Charlotte

8:16

and her husband have Ella

8:18

Rose who you'll hear about. She is

8:19

eight,

8:22

I believe, Golly, memory. I'm pretty

8:23

sure, don't worry, she says it as well.

8:26

And yeah, we had a great conversation.

8:28

I will see you on the other side. I'm going to play some care beds

8:30

in the garden.

8:39

Well, it's so lovely to see you and

8:42

thank you for coming straight from work.

8:44

And how often is the answer

8:47

you give to the first question people talk to you

8:49

about in interviews? Who 45? It's great

8:51

to be here. That is the question

8:54

that everyone asks me. Yeah. What's

8:57

it like getting up at that time of the morning? I can't

8:59

recommend it on a regular basis, but

9:03

you just sort of get used to it really. Quite a lot

9:05

of the time my alarm goes off and I think,

9:08

what is that noise? It's the middle of the night.

9:10

And then I realize, oh, that's my alarm. I've

9:12

got to get up for work. Even now. I know. And

9:14

I did, you know, however many years at

9:19

Good Morning Britain, our show's going to be 10 years

9:21

old next year. And then I did seven

9:23

years at Sky News, sunrise, doing a breakfast

9:26

show there. So that's quite a lot

9:28

of getting up in the middle of the night. But

9:30

you know, you just get up. There's no

9:32

snooze button straight in the shower. Get on

9:35

with it. And I think because it's so busy, you don't really

9:37

have time to think about feeling

9:39

tired or anything else. You just get on with it.

9:42

So yeah, that's

9:44

it really. And I guess when you get to work,

9:46

there's this whole energy and

9:48

hubbub and industry around what you're doing. It's

9:51

got such momentum to it. You just kind of get on that

9:53

train, don't you? Exactly. As soon as you get in

9:55

there, that's it. There's not a minute

9:57

to spare, you know, we're in there. We're having meetings. having

10:00

hair and makeup, then before you know

10:02

it, you're live on air. So you're hoping

10:04

that you've woken up by the time that kicks in.

10:07

Several cups of tea later, you're

10:09

feeling a bit more with it. So

10:11

you just kind of go with it, and I love it. It's just

10:13

so exciting to do that. And I feel really

10:16

grateful working in Breakfast TV that you get

10:18

to tell people the news first,

10:20

which is just

10:23

like when you've got the best bits of gossip and you

10:25

want to be the one that pearls everybody. And that's

10:27

what it feels like. So everyone's waking up and you're saying,

10:29

you'll never guess what's going on.

10:32

And any times when I've done news

10:34

later in the day, I just find it sort of takes

10:37

up my whole day and I'm always listening to it and

10:39

thinking about it, which when you work in news, you are

10:41

anyway. But it's nice

10:43

when you're setting the agenda and you're saying

10:45

to people, this is what's important this morning.

10:48

And then you just sort

10:49

of hand it over and that's it. You can

10:51

then

10:52

do things for the rest of your day as long as you're not

10:55

too tired. Yeah, now that's actually

10:57

a really good point because I was thinking if you're

10:59

really into

11:02

client affairs and the news, it

11:04

must be quite hard when you go to bed to just like turn

11:07

everything off and kind of think, trust that you'll know what

11:09

you need to know by the morning. Because obviously it's all happening

11:11

around the world and we have such access to all the time.

11:14

So you're quite good at not kind of like

11:15

scrolling, scrolling, following things

11:18

through them. I feel like I'd find it hard to

11:20

switch off. It can be. I think that's

11:22

the thing. Sometimes it's like revising

11:24

for an exam where the curriculum keeps

11:26

changing every single minute. Because

11:28

one thing, one moment you think, I'm

11:31

right across that story, I know exactly what's happening.

11:33

And then you turn away for a second and it's all changed.

11:36

It's moved on. And I think

11:38

that's the same with our program

11:40

that you see what's going to be in the program in the

11:42

evening and you think, great, I know exactly

11:45

what questions I want to ask, what bits I want to focus

11:48

on. And you wake up the next morning and they say, oh

11:50

no, this has changed overnight. We're not doing

11:52

that anymore. We're doing this. But you've

11:54

just got to go with the flow and just trust

11:56

the fact that it'll all

11:59

come together. and you know enough about it. You know

12:01

what people at home watching are going to

12:03

want to know. So I think that's the key thing

12:06

to ask the questions that they want to

12:08

know. But sometimes it can be hard

12:11

to switch off from it. And I think I found that

12:13

most profoundly during COVID

12:15

because it was like the breaking

12:17

news story that never stopped. Day

12:20

after day after day, there were really important

12:23

updates that I felt

12:25

really responsible

12:26

for making sure I was across all

12:28

the right facts, all the right information, everything

12:30

that we're being told to be able to ask the right

12:32

questions, holds ministers

12:34

to account. It just felt so

12:37

important. And sometimes it got to

12:39

the stage where I thought I have

12:40

to switch off. And

12:43

you're getting so much information as well. I didn't want to get

12:45

any information that wasn't right. So I

12:47

had to be really careful about the sources

12:49

that I was going to, who I was listening to,

12:51

what I was

12:53

reading to make sure that everything I had was

12:55

factually incorrect. So that was just one of those

12:57

moments where you're in a heightened state of alerts,

12:59

but for such a long amount of time,

13:02

that was quite hard to sustain

13:05

that. And I think also when you're feeling, I

13:07

sort of felt that anxiety like everybody

13:10

else did with what on earth is going on with this. It's

13:12

one of those stories where at the

13:14

same time, you're really feeling it

13:17

as a person and having to

13:19

look at the story and examine all the facts

13:21

as a journalist as well.

13:23

Well, I think actually, I mean, even hearing you

13:25

talk about it reminded me of how massive

13:28

the news was for us at that time as well,

13:30

in terms of like keeping on top of it and looking at all the,

13:32

I felt like that was a really

13:34

significant part of your day was just

13:37

having the radio and having the TV on, letting

13:39

it roll, letting all the information come because it

13:42

was scary and abstract. And it felt

13:44

like you needed to be really keeping

13:46

your wits about you really. And as you say,

13:49

like keeping abreast of what was the right information

13:51

and the wrong thing and what had been corrected and

13:53

updated and the new protocol. So I think for

13:56

you, you must have had, it sort of must have come

13:58

in all angles.

13:59

angles as well because it is a human you're experiencing

14:02

all in your life and it affects everything.

14:04

Yeah, it was like a tsunami and at the same time I'm having

14:06

to homeschool

14:08

my daughter which was a challenge

14:10

in itself and she loves

14:13

school so actually in theory it should

14:15

have been quite straightforward but when

14:17

you say to her, okay we're doing English now and she's

14:19

like, no I don't want to do English now and it's just

14:22

it was really hard. I'm

14:24

not a teacher to be able to sort of

14:26

say to her, you know, this is what we're doing but I have

14:28

to say a huge thank you

14:30

to you because you kept the same

14:32

in our house. I'm going to get emotional

14:34

but it is just honestly the highlight of our week

14:37

was Friday, the kitchen disco,

14:39

me and my daughter would be dancing around

14:42

the kitchen and it was just like a beacon

14:44

at the end of the week when the

14:46

working week was done.

14:48

We'd got through the homeschooling, we could

14:50

bop around the kitchen and

14:53

I think when you couldn't see anyone else

14:56

and you sort of welcomed everyone into your

14:58

home and my daughter just felt like

15:01

she knew all your family. It was just it

15:03

was such a lovely moment so a big thank you.

15:06

Oh, thank you for coming over and

15:09

it's a really lovely set because you know I was having exactly

15:11

the same stresses as you all week in terms of

15:13

like the homeschooling. I thought that was

15:16

probably things my way worse with it really. We abandoned

15:19

it quite early. I don't know how you've heard with all of yours.

15:21

Actually at the beginning I did think I've really bitten

15:23

off more than I can chew in terms of children. Like

15:26

a number and also the age

15:29

span. A bit late

15:31

to be considered by that point. Yeah, it really

15:33

was. I hadn't factored in the

15:35

idea of actually just being a field with all of them permanently

15:39

and then being responsible for education

15:41

and stuff but what a weird

15:43

old time. And actually

15:45

you've mentioned Elle Rose. I was watching this adorable

15:48

clip of her yesterday interviewing George Ezra

15:51

on her morning Britain. Oh my goodness. She

15:53

did so. So she's eight now. She's

15:56

eight now. Yeah. But when she was seven she came in because George

15:58

Ezra's going to be on and I think one of the... would you just

16:00

have said to you, wouldn't it be nice if Elle

16:02

Rose came in? Yeah, so what happened was

16:05

we draw up

16:07

a list of things that she'd like to do over

16:09

the holidays because I think, because I'm working as

16:11

well. I want her to feel like she's had

16:13

a special holiday and she's done all the

16:15

things that she wants to do. So that summer

16:17

holiday, we'd had a list of, you know, things I want to

16:20

do with my summer holiday. And one of them was

16:22

I want to go into work with you. So I said, yeah, you know,

16:24

that's fine. I'm sure we can sort that out one morning. And

16:26

it was about holiday Monday and George

16:28

Ezra is one of her favorite singers and

16:31

he was going to be on the show. So I said,

16:33

could she come in because she's such

16:35

a super fan? And then I said, do you think he might sign

16:38

a photo? Is that okay? Cause I didn't sort of want to

16:40

ambush him. And

16:43

that's when they turned around and said, well, actually, would you like

16:45

to ask a question or two? So

16:47

she'd drawn up this whole list of questions

16:50

that she wanted to ask him. She was so

16:52

excited about it. And I think

16:55

when I got there in the morning, I think I

16:57

was busy doing the show. And it was only

16:59

when I sat down and the

17:01

idea was that we would start to interview George

17:04

and then we'd bring Ella Rose on. And

17:06

I was so nervous on her

17:09

behalf cause it suddenly hit me that

17:11

she was only seven. And I thought,

17:13

I haven't really said to her what

17:16

it might feel like to be on TV. And,

17:18

you know, we'd gone through what she

17:20

would say. So from that point of view, I was all

17:22

confident. But I did have that moment

17:24

where I thought anything could happen now. And

17:27

I do feel quite responsible for the fact that

17:29

I've allowed this to happen. But I was so

17:31

proud. And I think cause she loved

17:34

him so much and she was just like, well, all I've

17:36

got to do is ask

17:36

these questions. In her mind, it was really

17:38

straightforward. She's like, well, I've

17:41

got these questions on a clipboard. All I've got to do

17:43

is ask him the questions. And I don't think

17:45

she had any concept about people

17:47

at home watching in a sense, you know,

17:50

in her mind, it's just like, great, I get

17:52

to speak to him. I get to ask these questions.

17:54

But what a moment for her. She's never going to

17:56

forget that. It's just such a high line. It's definitely

17:59

well, firstly, I liked she was reading a question

18:01

but she'd always look up and ask the question to his

18:03

eyes rather than squirreling her head in the paper which I thought

18:05

was very impressive. But also I was thinking

18:08

I think they should have a thing where kids interview

18:10

people on TV more often because it was

18:12

really lovely to see how George

18:15

had to sort of turn his whole body towards her and then he has

18:17

to speak to her in a way to answer the questions

18:20

but was also you know keeping her feeling

18:22

safe with what you think and it made it feel like you were kind

18:25

of eavesdropping on a conversation between

18:27

two people where you know it wasn't for broadcast

18:29

it was more like between them. I think that's I

18:31

honestly I was like this is actually really engaging I

18:34

think more people should be interviewed by children. They

18:36

can't hide at things as well. I know I think that's the thing

18:38

I mean you know he was he was lovely anyway with

18:41

we were having a great interview but so

18:43

many people got in touch to say he

18:45

came to like because he

18:47

obviously sort of you know engaged

18:49

with her reacted to that and

18:52

I think you just get something

18:54

different out of someone when

18:56

it's a child asking the questions so

18:58

we were laughing about it on Good Morning Britain about bringing

19:00

all our children in to do like a special

19:03

one day and just handing it over to them

19:05

and say right you do the news the weather oh my

19:07

god the news payment by kids like all

19:09

the serious stuff they just they're

19:12

like oh my god imagine all the like

19:14

MPs have these kids

19:16

direct questions yeah that would kind of be incredible.

19:19

Put them on the spot. Yeah. And you just don't know

19:21

what they're going to ask. Why did you not answer my question?

19:23

Why

19:24

are you giving me a dancer to a different

19:26

question? Yeah. I'm

19:28

all for it. I think that when you said

19:30

that she was not really that nervous because to

19:32

her she was just going to read out what she'd already

19:34

prepared. That reminded me of

19:37

something I heard you say about your

19:39

job and when you have to do public speaking and when you're

19:42

you know doing your job and how you don't really

19:45

tend to get nervous in that way because you're just about

19:47

to do the thing you've already prepped for.

19:49

So it sounds like maybe you and and the raise have got a

19:51

similar way of handling the pressure

19:54

and the responsibility of a broadcast

19:57

really. I guess I mean I'd probably said to

19:59

her something like that. because in theory,

20:01

when you're working in

20:02

television, either you're reading bits of an auto

20:04

cue, and

20:06

if you boil that down, it's essentially

20:08

reading out loud, isn't it? Okay, yeah, you're

20:10

sort of getting the meaning of what you're saying,

20:13

and in our job, you're working on and off the auto

20:15

cue, so you've gotta kind of dip in and out of bits like

20:18

that. And in other senses, you're

20:20

having a conversation. And it's

20:23

not like, usually in a conversation, you don't

20:25

just stop dead thinking, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna say now.

20:27

You don't get nervous in a conversation

20:30

because you just keep talking,

20:32

or if you don't talk, the other person picks

20:34

up, and there's something very different,

20:36

I think, about people being aware of what they're doing

20:38

on TV that can just

20:41

sometimes make people completely freeze.

20:43

It's a really weird thing,

20:45

and I think I look back to when I first started

20:48

out in TV, and

20:50

I was absolutely terrified, that very

20:53

first story. And I remember

20:55

I was so keen to do something. I

20:57

was a producer, working behind the scenes, beavering

20:59

away, and they always say about a

21:02

sort of dress for the job that you want, and I

21:04

was like, there in my suit, ready to go,

21:06

the reporter, if

21:07

I needed to be. And one time, they did say

21:09

to me, we want you to do a

21:12

live on this breaking news

21:14

story, and it was one of those weird stories about

21:17

a hole had opened up in a pavement, and

21:19

someone had fallen into this hole. I mean, luckily,

21:22

they were okay. So I was

21:24

just thinking, oh my goodness, this is my moment.

21:27

I get to talk about this breaking news story. My

21:29

friends who were watching at home have

21:31

not stopped laughing about the fact. They were like, honestly,

21:33

you look like the world was about to end. Breaking

21:37

news that this, what turned

21:39

out to be a pretty small

21:40

hole was opened up in a pavement, and someone had

21:42

fallen into it. But I wanted

21:44

to give it exactly the news gravitas,

21:47

the authority, and there was me thinking

21:49

I've nailed it. I think maybe I went a little

21:51

bit overboard on that one. But

21:53

sometimes you never quite know how you're going to react, but I

21:55

feel really lucky working

21:56

on Good Morning Britain because

21:58

if things go wrong, if you... get your words

22:00

mixed up, if you know, I

22:02

don't know, someone doesn't understand a question or someone,

22:05

you can just work with it. It's a conversation,

22:07

people laugh it off and I think that's

22:09

when you're watching at home, people love

22:11

that kind of thing when things don't quite go

22:14

to plan and that's what's lovely

22:16

about it is having the light and shade but yes, you do

22:18

all the serious stuff but at the same time

22:21

you're having a laugh and doing the

22:23

lighthearted things as well. Yeah, I think they

22:25

love seeing the humanity of it and

22:27

people really, as you said, the

22:29

relationship that the presenters have with each other

22:32

but actually when you were talking about reading

22:34

on the autocue and how you're just delivering,

22:36

you know, you know, what you're, where you're headed

22:38

with things, what's it like when you

22:40

have

22:40

strong opinions about things? I mean, is there,

22:43

have you had to learn to edit

22:45

yourself, do you think, when you're talking to people

22:47

about how you feel about things or have you got more

22:50

freedom to speak about stuff? Yeah,

22:52

I think, you know, obviously as

22:54

a journalist you want to present things in a balanced

22:57

way. There are going to be stories that you have

23:00

strong opinions on for

23:02

whatever reason but I think, you know,

23:04

in that case you're sort of upfront about

23:06

it and say, well, you know, if there's a particular

23:08

reason why you feel a certain

23:10

way, sometimes

23:13

things are always going to affect you

23:15

more than others. If it's something that hits home

23:18

for a personal reason then that's when you

23:20

can kind of get, feel like a bit more involved

23:23

and sometimes I just get really, I think

23:25

especially when ministers aren't

23:27

answering the questions and you know it's something really

23:30

important for people at home, then

23:33

that's what really bugs me actually

23:35

and that's when I'm most likely to get

23:37

wound up about something.

23:41

But I think, you know, it's nice

23:43

that we've got the freedom to be able to

23:46

ask the questions that we want to ask and have

23:48

anybody saying don't

23:49

ask that question and that's

23:52

an important thing I think to have that freedom to

23:54

be able to work out

23:56

what you want to ask from your point of view.

23:59

I think that really

24:02

resonates when you say that the thing that bugs you most

24:04

is when people aren't being direct. Because

24:06

actually I think that leads to

24:08

such a disconnect to the mistrust of people

24:11

and positions of authority. Isn't that when

24:13

they're being asked direct questions that affect

24:16

everybody's lives and they're just sort of skirting around it. Because

24:19

it's almost like a dance that people can do and it's

24:21

like, I know that's very clever, but you're not actually really

24:24

reassuring people or delivering the answer that

24:26

they deserve to hear. So I think that would really

24:28

wind up as well. But I was thinking someone

24:30

who probably doesn't edit is someone like Piers,

24:33

Paul Zinn. And

24:35

I was wondering, and this is quite

24:37

a sort of 2023 type of question

24:39

really, but do you think that the

24:42

way that women are, how they

24:44

are portrayed and the role they have

24:46

in delivering the news is,

24:48

do you think it's shifted? Do you think that there's

24:50

more women allowed to inhabit

24:52

the same sort of space in terms of, I

24:55

don't know, holding people to account or

24:57

interrupting or the sort of, I suppose,

25:00

the things that Piers does that would not be the

25:02

traditional way of

25:04

being on

25:05

as a presenter?

25:06

I think

25:08

there's definitely more freedom these days

25:10

for people to be who they are. And everyone's got a different

25:12

approach, hasn't they? And Piers is

25:15

one of a kind, let's face it. And he

25:18

does things his way. And

25:21

I think the good thing

25:23

is that,

25:25

in a sense, we all do things

25:27

our own way and are able to do that. And I remember

25:29

when I first started off in news

25:32

and they used to talk about kind of different

25:33

approaches,

25:35

being a presenter when you're asking those tough

25:37

questions. And there are those people that will go in

25:39

all guns blazing. And there are

25:41

other people who will go in a bit

25:44

more gently and still

25:46

get the same, if not, you know, better answers.

25:49

You just don't know. Everyone's got different approaches, but

25:51

they talk about like the iron fist in a velvet

25:53

glove. And I quite like that.

25:55

For me, I think that's sort of more the approach that I

25:57

have, that I make sure sort of I want

25:59

to be. firm as people and hold them to account. But

26:03

unless I'm really annoyed, I try not to interrupt

26:05

people because I know that people watching at home

26:07

want

26:08

to hear what people have got to say. But

26:11

if they're consistently not answering the question,

26:13

if they're not being factual, if I think that they're

26:16

trying to veer off a difficult

26:18

point, then I will interrupt because that starts

26:20

to annoy me then. So I think everyone's

26:22

got different approaches. But I think when

26:24

you look at the strong females

26:27

who are in the news profession,

26:29

I've worked with Susannah and

26:31

Kate, and they're both great examples

26:33

of it. People who are not afraid to

26:35

ask the difficult questions, then

26:38

I think we've definitely moved

26:40

from the age where you just sort of sit

26:43

there and look pretty on the sidelines. I completely

26:45

agree with you, and that's what I was thinking about, because I think it has shifted.

26:48

But I wonder if it felt the same for you on the inside.

26:50

And I actually also totally

26:52

agree with that idea of, what

26:54

do you say, the iron fist and the velvet glove? Because

26:56

I think sometimes if you're

26:59

faced with, you know, you've interviewed by certain people,

27:01

you know, oh, I've got to keep my wits about

27:03

me here. But actually, the sort of slightly

27:05

more

27:06

softly approach that people kind of actually

27:08

see more as their characters

27:10

sometimes because they just regard a little

27:12

more down. So I quite like that too. So

27:14

for watching it and people kind of unveiling things,

27:17

I think it can work really well.

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30:42

So your relationship with news, it sounds like,

30:45

your enthusiasm for it has continued

30:48

from when you were young. Because I know when you were, even

30:50

when you were, before you were working, you would watch

30:53

your regional news and just like

30:55

the whole way that it was shown. Is it Mary Jane

30:57

you were watching? Yeah, so I grew up watching that one. I think,

30:59

yeah, I was always just fascinated by what was going on

31:02

in the world and just always

31:04

wanted to ask questions about, you

31:06

know, why? And just was

31:08

a very kind of curious person that wanted

31:10

to get to the bottom of things. And I think I did

31:12

have quite a strong sense

31:14

of when I thought there was injustice, that

31:17

I wanted to try and

31:19

right some wrongs. You kind of start off

31:21

with that sort of aim that that's what you

31:23

want to do to get to the bottom of things. So

31:26

that's kind of, I think

31:28

that sparked it for me, my interest

31:30

in journalism. And I, you know, I

31:33

really wanted to kind of be like an investigative

31:35

reporter or just try and get to the

31:37

heart of things and try and dig a little

31:39

bit

31:39

deeper.

31:40

Yeah, I think I can get

31:43

that from you, both your curiosity, but also

31:45

your ambition, because, you know,

31:47

after you actually end up working on Meridian and

31:50

then kind of climbing the ranks to get to national

31:53

daily news. And I wondered

31:55

if you always saw motherhood as something

31:58

that would be interwoven with that. presumably

32:00

if you're busy, you

32:02

know, moving through the different

32:04

ranks, it's also a big thing to think about when

32:06

that might be interrupted by something.

32:09

I know. Well, it's, you know, it's always a, it's

32:11

always tricky timing, isn't it? And

32:13

I think for us, we

32:16

were in a situation where we

32:19

then sort of thought, okay, let's start a family.

32:21

And then it didn't happen for us.

32:23

And it didn't happen for a long time. And then

32:26

that's

32:27

really tricky, because I think, you know, you sort of sail

32:29

through life, don't you? And you sort of get used

32:31

to the fact that, right, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Okay,

32:33

now I have a family. And it doesn't

32:36

work like that for everybody. So that was

32:39

quite a shock, I think. And

32:42

that really

32:44

shook my world, because all of a sudden,

32:46

there was something that I had no control

32:48

over that I didn't know whether it

32:50

was going to work out for us. And

32:53

we'd got to the stage where, you know,

32:56

we were about to go down the IVF route, we

32:58

had the paperwork, I just

33:01

got the new job at Good Morning Britain. So,

33:04

you know, it was really bad timing,

33:06

from the sense that I just got a new job. And then I found

33:09

out I was pregnant. So I guess, you know, it's one of

33:11

those

33:12

things when they say when you're thinking about it least, it's the most

33:16

likely

33:17

to happen. But actually, yeah, I'm so

33:19

grateful that we have her. And I'm grateful

33:22

that I've got a job where it's allowed

33:24

me to spend a lot of time with

33:26

her, particularly when she was little, and then I could

33:29

just go back and I'd be there for the

33:31

rest of the day. So actually,

33:33

you know, having my job where I

33:35

get up at stupid o'clock in the morning is meant

33:37

that I was able to spend more time with

33:39

her, I'm able to get back and do

33:41

the school run and do all those things. And now

33:44

we have pretty much the same bedtime. So she

33:46

loves it. She's like, time

33:48

for bed, you've got work tomorrow, mummy. And she's

33:50

like, reminding me that I need to go to bed,

33:52

because I need to get to sleep. Well, I'm

33:55

really glad that you have allorates. And

33:57

I'm sorry, it was such a long way to get there.

33:59

get this really wanted baby. And

34:02

I think there are so many people

34:04

out there who are bursting themselves

34:07

off and getting back out to work every day. And that's

34:09

the story that's going on at home. And I would imagine

34:11

that

34:12

your thoughts would just, I mean,

34:14

I don't know, I think it's what gets to put in your brain when

34:17

you want to start a family where it's kind of

34:19

like one, all roads lead back

34:21

to that thought. And especially,

34:23

you know, when you're working alongside other

34:26

people and they're talking about their kids and,

34:28

you know, you hear about different people

34:30

and babies, and especially in your 30s when

34:32

everybody seems to be like, right, let's do this. So

34:34

I

34:35

imagine for you, there must have been a lot of days we were

34:37

just thinking, I just, I just want

34:39

this to be started. And why is it not me right now?

34:41

What's happening? Yeah, it takes over your whole

34:44

life. I think that's the trouble. And it's

34:46

the thing that you can never

34:48

get away from. Because like

34:50

you say, you know, you're just surrounded

34:52

by it day in, day

34:55

out, whether it's from friends, whether it's from other people.

34:57

And I think you just, you just look around thinking,

35:00

I don't know if this is going to happen

35:02

for

35:02

us. And what do I do if

35:05

it doesn't when you'd assumed that

35:07

that was going to be the rest of your life? Yeah.

35:10

So I just, I really feel for those people

35:12

who

35:13

have gone through that and then it hasn't worked

35:16

for whatever reason, because I don't know how I

35:18

would have got my head around that, actually.

35:21

I mean, we just, you know, we just, I'm

35:23

sure just sort of had children in our life in

35:25

some way. But I don't know what that would have looked

35:28

like. And

35:29

I just feel so grateful to

35:31

have her. She is our

35:33

little miracle. And she's so much

35:35

fun. She just brings so much

35:37

to our lives, craziness,

35:39

all the rest of it, but so much laughter.

35:42

It's just a blessing. Yeah, that's a

35:44

really, really happy thing. And, and

35:47

actually thinking about your working life,

35:49

I think,

35:50

you know, from the outside, you know, people

35:52

would see you on TV every day, and it would look like you're

35:54

always out in the back, but actually, you've probably got a lot more

35:57

routine than a lot of other people

35:59

who are working in. areas of broadcast

36:01

and entertainment actually because it's quite predict

36:03

I would imagine you're like your weeks kind of look

36:06

quite similar to each other in terms of your timings.

36:08

Usually yeah I mean the thing is we sort of have

36:12

sometimes we can have quite a few evening things

36:14

and then early the next day but I

36:16

think in a sense it's just

36:18

making sure that you've got good

36:20

plans

36:22

in place. So I always try and make

36:24

it sound exciting for

36:26

Ella Rose like you know you're doing this and oh

36:29

by the way I'm going out you know that kind

36:31

of thing rather than oh I'm going out

36:33

therefore you're doing this or someone this

36:35

person's coming to look after you and

36:38

I find bringing little things back whether it's

36:41

a notepad from the hotel room or whatever

36:44

always goes down well with an eight-year-old

36:46

I'm not saying this is gonna work for every age but

36:50

I'll say look you'll never guess what was at the hotel

36:52

look at this pack of biscuits just like oh you should

36:55

go way more often and bring me biscuits actually

36:58

I think you're right and I remember when when I

37:00

used to do lots of like foreign trips where I could bring

37:02

had like an ability to bring a plus one

37:04

with me I would always take the kids when they got to like

37:06

seven plus I'd be like right you're just gonna come with me on your own

37:08

and actually it'd be amazing because I'd be staying

37:11

at these really you could be like you know what

37:13

to me looks like a really average hotel

37:15

and they'd just be like

37:16

oh my word the chandelier and the perception

37:19

suddenly everything was super exciting there's a

37:21

shower cap in the box in the bathroom that's

37:23

the amazing thing about children because when you look

37:25

sometimes when you look at things through their eyes

37:28

I think you see a whole different perspective

37:31

and you know she went through a stage where she was so

37:33

excited about going to the supermarket which usually

37:35

you drag yourself there you try and get around as quickly as possible

37:38

but this is like heaven and she's like oh look

37:40

at this this is amazing for her it's

37:42

just you know a great kind of treat

37:45

going to the supermarket and you think oh I'd forgotten

37:47

how exciting supermarkets can be but sometimes

37:50

I think when you look at things through the eyes of a child

37:53

and see what they appreciate

37:56

and how they look at things it does kind

37:58

of give you a different perspective

37:59

because we tend to go through life and you're

38:02

like, oh, I'm learning about this, that and the other. And actually

38:04

for them, they have such a different outlook

38:06

on things and that

38:07

getting that immediate joy

38:09

and gratification from things, however

38:12

small.

38:14

I don't know how this is going to change when she gets to

38:16

be a teenager. It just shifts on

38:18

it. Yeah, I think teenage bit can be a

38:20

bit, can get a bit muddy, shall

38:23

we say. But- I'll

38:25

come for you for it, right? That's what I'm going to do. Let me get

38:27

a few more of them online. But

38:29

yeah, I think it's just, you're

38:32

right about that, like innate enthusiasm

38:34

for small things. I mean, I don't think it's even

38:36

in every kid actually, but I know that I've definitely

38:39

had children where like, well, I just need to go, you know, and

38:41

pick up something from the dry clean, doesn't want to be like, I'll come. You

38:43

know, okay, great, you know, nice little, nice

38:45

little joint to go and pick something up. But

38:48

did you ever, I suppose

38:50

if you're, you know, if the longing for

38:52

a child has been something that's been like a longer

38:54

road, maybe it didn't even really occur to you

38:56

to indulge this thought. But did you have any

38:59

worries about your ambition or

39:01

whether you would continue working or how your relationship

39:03

would be with work? Or was it always like, oh no,

39:05

I will keep doing what I do? No,

39:07

it was always work is, you

39:10

know, always been important to me. So

39:12

I knew that I would

39:14

want to have a setup where I could juggle

39:16

both, balance both.

39:18

So that was really important to me. I wasn't

39:20

sure, obviously

39:22

how I was going to feel after, you know,

39:24

everyone said, oh, you know,

39:26

you kind of have these plans and you're pregnant and

39:28

you think, oh, I'll go back to work at this time and I'll do this.

39:30

And everyone sort of said, look, just see how you feel. But

39:33

actually I did need that

39:35

focus again. So

39:38

I went back to work four months

39:40

after having LROs. And again, I was

39:43

lucky because I could kind of keep all the other work commitments

39:46

down so that I was just going into

39:48

Good Morning Britain and then coming straight back to

39:50

be with her. So it was a bit sort of more of

39:52

a manageable return. I

39:54

think I felt more like me then.

39:57

And I think she got the

39:59

better side.

39:59

of me because then I was thinking,

40:02

oh great, I can't wait to see her. And it

40:04

was being able to spend that quality time

40:06

with her that worked well for me

40:08

rather than I kind

40:11

of just

40:11

had this weird world beforehand

40:14

where I just thought, I'm

40:17

not really sure this is me at my best when

40:19

I'm here day in, day out.

40:21

And I think particularly when she was

40:24

newborn and everything is such

40:26

a mission, isn't it? I remember

40:29

that the health visitor had sort of said, just

40:31

try and do at least one thing a

40:33

day. Try and get out one time a day,

40:36

which seems some days

40:38

you think, oh no, but it's good

40:40

to be able to do because you just need to

40:42

get out. You can get out of the house. Yeah, and

40:44

also to challenge yourself, like, can

40:46

I remember to pack up everything and get

40:49

it all in the buggy and not forget anything

40:51

crucial?

40:53

So yeah, I think that sort of worked

40:56

for me, being able to do the both. And

40:59

yeah,

41:00

I need it for my headspace

41:02

to be able to feel my best and then

41:04

to be able to be my best with her. Yeah, I think

41:06

it should be quite impressive that you

41:09

sort of recognize it in yourself quite quickly.

41:11

Because I think sometimes we sort of haven't,

41:14

I don't know, an expectation. I actually went back

41:16

to work quite quickly after a lot of mine as well from that same

41:18

thing. But I think I didn't really realize it with my first

41:20

one, because I don't think I kind of knew what

41:23

that would look like yet to be working. I

41:25

think my head just felt really foggy. And I was worried about

41:28

how I'd get ideas for songs or even

41:30

string a sentence together probably. But I

41:33

think to know when you're in that three, four

41:35

months of that newborn to think, actually, I'm

41:37

not quite,

41:38

I'm not quite my full self here. And I need to be

41:40

able to do the work thing just to feel like I can give her the

41:42

best of me when I get home. I think it's a really

41:45

important recognition. But I guess

41:47

you also did an extra thing. So I was reading that

41:50

before, so you lost your dad only a

41:52

month before you had your baby, is that right? Yeah,

41:54

I'm so sorry. So I must have been an immense

41:58

juxtaposition of emotion.

41:59

It was, yeah,

42:02

it was just a surreal time

42:04

because, you know, we'd known for some

42:06

time, obviously, that my dad wasn't

42:09

well. He was getting worse. And when you have motor

42:11

neurone disease, it only,

42:13

it's a terminal illness, you know, it's only going

42:15

one way. So we knew that he was in decline.

42:18

I was so pleased to be able to

42:20

tell him that I was pregnant

42:22

and be able

42:24

to share that news, which was

42:26

just amazing. And

42:28

I just had hoped that

42:30

he would still be there

42:32

to meet her, but it wasn't to be. And

42:34

it was pretty much a month to the day

42:37

before she was born that he went. And

42:39

it sort of almost felt like

42:41

that circle of life,

42:43

you know, that he left

42:46

so she could come in. I don't know. It just,

42:48

you know, I could, I found it hard though, because

42:51

I was pregnant at the time and

42:53

really pregnant. And I didn't want that

42:56

massive sadness that I was

42:58

so scared was going to engulf me. I didn't want her

43:00

to feel that. So I really

43:02

tried to put

43:05

that off. You can't really postpone that.

43:07

But that's why I think I had this, these

43:09

just, you know, after she was born,

43:12

then a huge high, but it

43:14

always comes out in some way.

43:16

So I did have a massive roller coaster

43:19

of emotions. It was a, it was a really

43:21

tricky time. Then afterwards,

43:23

and I think it did take me longer to

43:26

then because I think I

43:27

postponed my grieving. So then you're going through all

43:29

sorts of different feelings. So it

43:31

was,

43:33

it was quite a sort of full on time emotionally

43:35

and going back to work

43:37

and then

43:39

trying to get your head around that it was what I needed.

43:41

But at the same time was quite

43:43

difficult to do when you're

43:45

not necessarily feeling that you want

43:47

to sort of put a smile on and be all

43:49

bright eyed and bushy tailed. But sometimes you just

43:52

have to get back out there and you just have to think, right,

43:54

you know, I have to move on. I have to be

43:56

able to make this work. And I think particularly for her sake,

43:58

because you think I have to get myself

43:59

together

44:01

because I wanted to be strong for

44:03

her. But the lovely thing is that

44:05

even though she

44:06

never met him, she, you

44:09

know, she,

44:10

out of choice, she just got one of the photos

44:13

of him and she has it in her

44:15

room and like

44:17

he's still very much alive

44:20

for her even though she never met

44:23

him, which is really special. He

44:25

gets her presents of every

44:28

Christmas, as if by magic. I kind of, I

44:30

know what he would have got her, what he would have liked her to

44:32

have had so I sort of say this is from

44:35

Grandad Frank. So it's kind of a way

44:37

of keeping him alive for her. So

44:40

actually they have a special bond

44:42

because of that, which is really lovely. Well,

44:44

in turn, that must mean that you had a really special bond

44:46

with your dad. If you knew him so well, you'd

44:48

know even what he would pick for your daughter. That's really

44:50

lovely. And I

44:53

do relate to that a little with my stepdad

44:55

when he died and my youngest was only one

44:57

so he wouldn't remember him at all. But there's

45:00

pictures everywhere. We kind of talk about him. I

45:03

think it feels like a very

45:05

natural thing sometimes to keep someone

45:07

still present even if they're not physically here anymore.

45:10

If you love them that way,

45:12

you can sort of realise them again, can't you

45:14

at the seat at the table or what they would

45:16

have thought that things were significant events like, oh,

45:18

they would have been here for this. I think it

45:20

feels natural to keep that world turning.

45:23

But I'm so sorry that you went through it.

45:25

I think motor neurone is one

45:27

of the cruelest. I

45:29

went one time to the research centre for that. And I remember

45:32

speaking to the specialist and he said, well, the trouble

45:34

is when people get the diagnosis, they tend

45:36

to be maybe only have

45:39

a year or so. And I can't imagine

45:41

what it must be like to just watch someone sort of ebbing

45:44

away with such a cruel illness. I'm sorry you

45:46

experienced that with your dad. Yeah, I

45:48

mean,

45:48

it is horrific. It's literally

45:50

one of the worst because the person's

45:53

body just gives up around them and stops

45:55

working. And it's so hard

45:57

for them to go

45:58

through it. It's so hard for the person to be there.

45:59

family to watch them go through.

46:02

But you know, I

46:04

sort of try and channel all that. I'm a patron

46:06

now for the Motor Neuro-Disease

46:08

Association and I want to do anything

46:10

I can to try to, you

46:12

know, A, support any family that's going through

46:14

it at the moment and B, try to make

46:16

sure that we get

46:18

as much funding as we can for

46:20

the research because one

46:22

of the experts I spoke to just said, you know, he

46:24

is confident that in our lifetime they will find

46:26

a cure for this. So we are on the cusp of making

46:28

a huge difference and it would

46:30

be just amazing if we could

46:33

give those people diagnosed with Motor Neuro-Disease

46:35

hope because they don't have that at the moment. There

46:38

aren't the effective treatments

46:40

that even slow it down and for most other diseases

46:42

when you have a diagnosis

46:44

there are things that you can do, there are chances,

46:47

there's a chance that you can beat it

46:49

but with Motor Neuro-Disease you just can't.

46:51

Yeah, that is, yeah, I can't

46:53

even imagine. I mean it's such a big bombshell to

46:55

have put into the middle of your life if

46:58

that's something that you or a loved one has had that

47:00

diagnosis and I know that

47:02

there has been like a lot more

47:06

profile given to it. Do you remember the ice bucket challenge

47:08

because that has all started as a funding

47:10

for that. So I think yeah, if to

47:12

keep it present, so that's brilliant that you're

47:14

still engaged and involved and I imagine it

47:17

probably seems quite instinctive to just think I want

47:20

to make sure that I can give support but also

47:21

try and make sure that we actually don't have

47:23

this effect on anyone else anymore. Let's

47:26

hope so. Let's hope so, yes, here's to

47:28

that. So I'm just

47:30

thinking back, so LMA was born

47:32

in amongst all of this and

47:34

I wonder this may be

47:36

your job has encouraged

47:39

this sort of

47:39

compartmentalization of how you have to kind of

47:42

park things a little bit because presumably

47:44

you're not always dealing with things as huge as that but

47:46

when you get to work in the morning you've got to just be like, right,

47:49

this is where we're at and I have to be able to just focus

47:51

on the task at hand and kind of leave things outside

47:53

for a little bit. I mean, does work offer you

47:55

a conflict with that, do you think? I

47:58

think it's strange.

47:59

I do the job where I can't get an emergency phone

48:01

call, for example. Like

48:06

if something happens at home,

48:09

they can't ring me because I'm live on there in the studio. So

48:12

it's that weird feeling that you

48:14

have to be able to switch off completely. So

48:17

you have to trust the fact that all the arrangements you've put in place are

48:19

going to work out. You've

48:22

got the backup plan sorted. You

48:25

know, I can't take a call from the school. She's not

48:27

very well or something like that. So

48:29

it

48:30

does mean that you have to be focused. You're like, right,

48:32

I'm either there with the family in

48:35

that zone

48:36

or I'm doing work stuff and I'm in that zone. And

48:38

you just have to trust that everything

48:40

else is going to sort itself out. So, yeah,

48:43

I think that that side of it works. And the

48:47

only thing is sometimes, of course, you know, when you're

48:49

doing stories, I think, that involve

48:52

children, I think you can't help but

48:54

put yourself in that. You

48:57

know, you can't help but sort of feel that

48:59

like if a parent's gone through some trauma

49:01

or they've lost their child or something's happened, something

49:03

awful has happened, then you really feel

49:05

it more.

49:08

That's when I kind of, I

49:10

think, you know, a story upsets

49:12

you more than it would do otherwise.

49:15

You have to try and sort of, otherwise,

49:17

you know, every day the stories would just eat

49:20

you up, the stories that you are hearing. So

49:23

you try and sort of keep it in its little

49:25

place. But I think there are those ones that are going to

49:28

hit home and it is the ones involving children

49:30

that I just think, oh, you know, it makes

49:33

you go home and give your child an extra

49:35

big hug. I

49:38

remember when I had Sunny,

49:41

my mum saying that to me that she said, the thing is, once

49:43

you're a parent

49:45

or, you know, you have like a child in your life,

49:47

you care about every news story, you

49:49

become, you're in that story. It's happening to

49:51

you. So you read about what's happened to that child and it's, for

49:54

that moment, you're just like touching the corners of

49:56

it, that being you. And I think,

49:58

I don't think you can really switch.

49:59

that I suppose that the

50:02

tricky thing for anyone involved in

50:04

taking a new story

50:06

and making it, you know, national news is

50:08

that you're,

50:10

you have to, not everything is there to

50:13

be

50:14

problem-solved in the immediate. Sometimes letting

50:16

people tell their story is part of, you know, the

50:18

importance of spreading the word. I remember

50:21

I was reading an interview with Helen

50:23

Skelton and she was saying that she was doing some

50:25

fundraising and she saw this kid in

50:27

a really bad way and she tried to help them in the camera crew

50:29

were like, you have to stop doing this because if

50:32

we don't show that story, people

50:34

won't know what's happening here. You'll might solve it

50:36

today for that person, but that story won't

50:38

get any further. So I think it's that

50:40

duality of feeling

50:42

like this is so hard to talk

50:44

about or to, you know, to broadcast

50:48

the significance and getting the story out. That is the

50:50

point of why those people have come in and why they're sat in front

50:52

of you and why they're talking about it. I

50:55

think that's even if it's very raw. Yeah, it's

50:57

not, you know, you want to be able to sort of

50:59

make a difference and help people, but sometimes

51:02

that is just by spreading the

51:04

word. And also there's a lot of families,

51:07

you know, some people sort of say, Oh, how can you

51:09

put these families on when they're

51:11

really upset, you know, isn't exploiting them. But

51:13

actually a lot of the time they desperately want

51:16

to work through the emotion,

51:18

the grief, they want to feel like they're making

51:20

a difference. And a lot of time there, they

51:23

want to sort of keep the memory of their child

51:25

alive, or they're using it for some cause of

51:27

some foundation, they're wanting to make a difference.

51:29

And it's enabling them to do

51:31

that at the same time. But it is

51:34

difficult

51:34

when you're

51:35

out and about. And I remember with Gugourney Britain,

51:38

I went to Malawi,

51:38

for example, and we were reporting there.

51:40

And it was just so shocking

51:43

to see

51:44

how the children lived. And

51:47

I was just like,

51:48

Oh, no, I really want to be able to do

51:51

something to help them. And, you know,

51:53

we've taken loads of things out that we could sort

51:55

of leave at the schools to help them in that

51:57

way. But it is quite difficult when

51:59

you're in a situation.

51:59

situation there where you're reporting on it and

52:02

actually you just want to sort of, you

52:04

know,

52:04

I don't know, take them all home with you, but you can't. Yeah,

52:07

I know that's,

52:09

I think it's the thing of like dipping into all those lives.

52:11

But I think I suppose you're extra

52:14

exposed to it because you're reading about all the stories. But

52:16

however, not always the news is not always the heavy

52:18

stuff you also have to, there's

52:19

always the and sort of unfindly moments

52:21

like the fun ones. My favourites.

52:24

Have you had any particularly wacky ones recently

52:27

that I need to know about? What have we had? Well,

52:29

just this morning, we had Jonathan Swain, one of our

52:31

correspondents, dressing up as Elvis

52:34

for an Elvis convention that's taken place in South

52:36

Wales. I mean, he's searching for Elvis. It was quite a

52:38

dodgy looking Elvis outfit. It's

52:40

slightly flammable, maybe. But yeah, he

52:42

was not going near any lights just in case.

52:45

But I think it's those ones that, you know, are

52:47

just, they're sort of

52:49

everybody's favourite moment. And I think it's kind of whatever

52:53

else has been in the news, it's

52:55

those moments of lightness.

52:57

And I always want to try and find that

53:00

story. But sort of my friend later

53:02

will be going, Oh, you'll never hear you'll never guess

53:04

what happened. And this is going on. And you

53:06

know, the ones that people are talking out in the pub that evening.

53:09

It's like finding that gem of a story,

53:11

isn't it? But yeah, just captures people's imagination,

53:14

whether it's quirky, whether it's an

53:16

example of some crazy British

53:18

eccentricity. It's, you

53:21

know, it's the moment of joy

53:23

that we

53:23

can bring people in the morning. Definitely. And I always

53:25

love it if I'm travelling around, I watch like regional

53:28

news, and you see some reporter having

53:30

to cover a story and like, wow,

53:32

the poor things I mean, to like, I

53:34

used to do my favourite. So when I used to get sent, you

53:36

never knew what you were going to be doing the top story we am

53:38

finally. And one time I remember there

53:40

was a fancy dress shop, it had been at a train station,

53:43

I think it was sort of celebrating a milestone anniversary. So

53:45

they said, we want you to go to this fancy

53:48

dress shop at train station.

53:50

And I thought it would be great to do like

53:52

a Mr. Ben style,

53:53

you know, in and out of the dressing room. So

53:55

I came out as a gorilla and you know, and

53:57

then in my head, I'm thinking I never saw

53:59

I would be wearing a gorilla

54:00

costume, live on air, but

54:03

you just don't know. So it's quite nice, you can throw

54:05

yourself into these things. Well, I know, I applaud

54:07

your enthusiasm. I would imagine normally that'd be people going,

54:10

please just put on the gorilla suit, give me one

54:12

shot, we probably won't even use it. And you're going,

54:14

no, what about this one? I think you've got to embrace

54:17

it. And actually talking and embracing,

54:19

I wanted to talk a little bit about your relationship with music,

54:21

because obviously you present your show

54:23

on Classic FM, and what roles

54:26

is music playing in your life? I love listening

54:29

to music. I listen to all sorts of

54:30

music, as I was saying about

54:33

your kitchen disco, love it. Love bopping along in

54:35

a kitchen to some pop music.

54:38

My daughter loves it too, but I love classical

54:40

music, and it's always had an important place

54:42

for me. My dad very much loved classical,

54:44

so I grew up with it, it was sort of the soundtrack to

54:47

my childhood, because he'd always have it

54:49

on at home

54:50

when he was doing the washing up or whatever

54:53

he was doing. So I very much

54:54

feel like it's always been with me, but

54:57

I've come back to it more in recent years.

54:59

And again, I think it's that whole, I

55:02

turn to it for those times

55:05

when you really need it. So if I've had a busy

55:07

day at work, or just those times when you need to

55:09

take yourself away from it, and that's when I will

55:12

choose certain pieces of classical music

55:14

that I listen to, and it is like getting a

55:16

musical hug.

55:18

It's good for your soul, it just takes you

55:20

to another place. And I found

55:22

that I used to do music

55:24

when I was younger, and I've recently gone

55:26

back to playing the piano. And again, it's that sort of,

55:29

that feeling of just you and the

55:31

music, and you just

55:33

switch everything else off,

55:35

which is great for sort of just focusing

55:37

on one thing, and especially when it's

55:40

one thing when hopefully

55:41

you're making a

55:42

beautiful music, and

55:44

that's what you're focusing on. It's quite frustrating

55:46

though, however, trying to relearn the piano

55:49

many years later has been quite a torturous

55:52

process. I'm super impressed with you for doing that. Because

55:54

for me, I played piano when

55:56

I was a teenager. I probably stopped

55:58

at like 13, actually.

55:59

And that was for me is like that is how far

56:02

I got So I think going

56:03

back is actually really impressive

56:05

thing. So well done

56:06

even heading back there Do you actually have a teacher

56:09

and stuff? Is it lessons always itself? I self-taught

56:11

because there was one piece in particular It's

56:13

called bluebird by Alexis French and I heard it on

56:15

the radio and I just fell in love with it instantly And

56:17

I thought I want to be able to play that so I set

56:19

myself a new year's resolution But

56:22

I was going to do it So I learned that one piece

56:24

and then I keep saying I want to go back and have

56:26

lessons because I don't think

56:29

My technique is not great and I did get to one piece

56:31

and I thought I don't have enough fingers How does

56:33

he play that? I don't have

56:35

enough fingers to be able to work around that bit

56:37

So, you know, there was some bits where I think you

56:39

do need a teacher to help show you the way But

56:42

Ella Rose now has piano lessons and I was sort of hoping

56:44

that I could buy Osmosis if I just didn't

56:46

watch her practice I can I can soak it all up

56:48

again and start from the beginning and and build

56:51

up but I might have left it a little

56:53

bit late for my concert pianist career, but

56:55

you know, you never know No, I think it's really good.

56:57

I should probably go back to it I feel like it's there's

57:00

a lot of things with But I've done and

57:02

then I just got to a certain age and I go okay That's

57:04

how far I got with that and I'm quite bad at going back

57:07

and you're sitting just in And

57:11

it They

57:14

pick a piece and the good thing now these days

57:16

is because you can teach yourself I have all those great videos

57:19

on YouTube and things where you can just follow

57:21

the yeah keyboard guides and actually

57:23

it's for those people who just want to dip in and dip

57:26

out and don't necessarily want to Commit

57:28

to lessons, but I just think playing a

57:30

musical instrument

57:32

is just such a wonderful thing

57:34

to be able to do in a space Leave the piano I wish

57:36

I need to be able to have like a party piece because I think when

57:38

people know you play the piano even a little bit

57:41

They

57:41

want you to kind of go I'll play a bit for ya

57:43

and you need something cool to be able to play at that moment

57:45

So that should probably be my next challenge.

57:48

Okay, or Christmas carols or something so we can have

57:50

a singer along at Christmas You can play the piano

57:52

my party beat is like an open bottle of beer with my teeth.

57:54

So to get there we've got a party Let's

57:57

do it. Yeah, relax, relax, relax, relax, relax

57:59

And we haven't spoken

58:02

to about that, we had the same dance teacher. I

58:04

know! This is Brendan Carl.

58:06

Yes!

58:08

How would your experiences trick Lee? How do you find

58:10

it all? I mean it was amazing and

58:12

terrifying at the same time. Is

58:16

that kind of what everyone feels I think? Yeah,

58:19

I mean

58:19

I think

58:21

it's like going through a weird experience

58:23

and then you meet someone else who's done it and then you have the same

58:25

look in your eyes about it. I feel like

58:28

I'm now like the other side of that. I felt like it's

58:30

been 10 years since I did it. It's a long time. I've

58:32

got a bit longer to play for. Yeah, you need another cut.

58:37

It's just such a wild ride. And

58:40

I did really get on with Brendan and he used to make me laugh.

58:44

And he knows he freaked me right out on like day

58:46

one where he'd be like, where's my strictly wife?

58:49

And I was just like, ahh!

58:50

I think that's me! It's

58:52

a weird thing though, isn't

58:53

it? Because I think you

58:56

get married and then that's sort of it. That's

58:58

the person you're closest to. And it's not like you go

59:00

around being that physically

59:02

close to anybody else. And then

59:05

all of a sudden on the dance floor you are literally

59:07

thrust together, aren't you? For

59:10

want of a better word. And

59:12

you suddenly feel like, what? This is very intimate

59:15

considering I don't really know this person that

59:17

well. Yes. And you're with

59:19

you on all that, Bella. I think, I

59:21

mean, at least you obviously used

59:23

to the performing side. But not like touching

59:26

someone and stuff. But for me, I was

59:28

like, this is so alien. I just

59:30

feel like a fish out of water. And I thought working

59:33

in live TV, I thought, well, at least I'll be used to the live

59:35

element. But it turns out that was even worse, that

59:37

just being there, knowing

59:39

that every single people were watching every

59:41

single step that I was making. And

59:44

that was what was so terrifying about it. Definitely.

59:48

I do perform, but I feel like performing under

59:50

my own like stare is

59:53

not choreographed. And if I feel like I want to be a

59:55

bit more still, a bit more introvert, I can kind of

59:58

give myself that space. is much more

1:00:00

like its show, its performance,

1:00:03

like capital P. Someone's saying to you,

1:00:05

okay, we need you to look sexy for this

1:00:07

one. And then all of a sudden it's like the least

1:00:09

sexy thing in the world, isn't it? And

1:00:12

you suddenly think, I can't even walk,

1:00:14

let alone.

1:00:14

Try and look sexy.

1:00:17

Or I'm like, oh god,

1:00:19

there I am, sexy, sexy. But

1:00:23

we survived it anyway.

1:00:25

We're the strictly survived it's class. Yeah.

1:00:28

I think that one will

1:00:30

fill in. Exactly. Have you danced since, in

1:00:32

a kind of ballroom dancing way? No,

1:00:34

no one's ever asked me again, like

1:00:37

would you like to waltz with me? Oh. Maybe

1:00:40

we'll do that as well. Well, I always thought I would keep it up.

1:00:42

And I thought, oh, I could go to the local village hall. It's

1:00:44

not quite the same once you dance with one

1:00:47

of the professionals. I know. You rock up at

1:00:49

your local village hall and say, anyone fancy a waltz? Yeah.

1:00:52

I know, because I was like, it's all right, I can still do this, I want

1:00:54

like, I haven't joined like

1:00:56

a local Argentine tango class

1:00:59

or anything. I did revisit Blackpool

1:01:01

the other day, that was up there to turn the lights on. I went

1:01:03

to the big winter ballroom and that was pretty lovely.

1:01:05

I didn't get as far as Blackpool, so. It's

1:01:08

a nice room, but. It's

1:01:11

quite far away, so you say to some. It's

1:01:15

got a sprung floor, that's the fun thing about Blackpool. Like

1:01:17

the whole thing, when you jump up and down and it all bounces.

1:01:20

Like a giant trampoline. Yeah, kind of, yeah. Well,

1:01:22

yeah, I'll waltz with you, we

1:01:25

can see if we can still do it. There we go. Waltzing

1:01:27

piano playing, bottle

1:01:28

opening with teeth, got it all sorted. Perfect.

1:01:30

How are you feeling right now then? So when

1:01:33

you've had your early start, what time do you start thinking? I've

1:01:35

had an early start today. Are you

1:01:38

still quite buoyant at the moment? Yeah, I

1:01:40

think that's what, you come off air and then you're sort

1:01:42

of feeling quite hyper because you've had all

1:01:44

that adrenaline rush of being live on air. And

1:01:48

it's not until later it kicks in. I find that

1:01:50

I tend to eat more and I find that I tend to eat a

1:01:52

lot of breakfast. That's the only thing. Oh yeah.

1:01:55

I sort of have a breakfast at about half past four, then

1:01:57

I'll have something at about half past six.

1:01:59

And then it'll get to about half past 11 and

1:02:02

I think, well, I need something else. So you'd find out

1:02:04

that you have a lot of meals at

1:02:06

that time.

1:02:08

And usually it just gets to maybe

1:02:10

about eight o'clock at night and

1:02:12

then that's when I've kind of got, yeah.

1:02:14

And I got better at the fact,

1:02:16

I used to try and ride it out and

1:02:19

you know, my husband and I would be like, oh, should we watch a film?

1:02:22

And I'd be 10 minutes in and asleep.

1:02:24

But literally that kind of a sleep where

1:02:26

he'd try and wake me up to say, look, you

1:02:29

probably should go to bed and I

1:02:31

just couldn't even rouse myself.

1:02:33

It would be like so torturous. So

1:02:35

I've just, that's what I've kind of given in

1:02:37

and thought

1:02:38

actually I'd rather just get myself to bed

1:02:40

and then at least I can watch TV or something

1:02:43

in bed. And then if I fall asleep at the moment,

1:02:45

it doesn't matter. But

1:02:48

I've kind of got just a bit more used

1:02:50

to, I suppose, working with that lack

1:02:52

of sleep and just thinking, okay, don't

1:02:55

panic about the fact that you haven't had much sleep

1:02:57

and I'm better now.

1:03:00

You know, sometimes if you think, I'm not gonna be able to do that because

1:03:02

I haven't had enough sleep, but actually I find that,

1:03:04

you know, sometimes you just got

1:03:06

to kind of give yourself back kickstart.

1:03:09

And I've done shows where I've literally,

1:03:12

for big events, things like, for example,

1:03:14

the Queen's funeral and I think

1:03:18

I must've had about an hour to sleep before

1:03:20

that. And then I was worried because I thought it is such

1:03:22

importance. I don't want to not

1:03:26

be with it, but it was, we

1:03:28

had so much to sort out the night before that I just couldn't

1:03:30

get any more sleep. And actually you're so focused

1:03:32

and you're so on it, you're so in the zone that

1:03:35

you just cut right through that. And

1:03:37

then other times I thought, right, I'm gonna have a really long

1:03:40

sleep and I've slept for however long and

1:03:42

then you wake up and it's, you

1:03:44

know, I don't know, you've had too much sleep. So

1:03:46

I kind of think, oh, just power on through

1:03:48

and worry about sleep at the end of the week. Yeah,

1:03:51

absolutely. And I think, you know, I

1:03:53

think actually to have started

1:03:56

in regional and gone all the way to national and still be going

1:03:59

so super strong. such excitement for

1:04:01

your job and all the stuff like that. I

1:04:03

think that show is amazing,

1:04:05

like tenacity and professionalism

1:04:08

and I think you sort of highlighted it when

1:04:10

you said like, you know, when you had first started

1:04:13

and you had your suit on ready to go, like, I

1:04:15

know it was a sinkhole and you gave it your

1:04:17

all but I think there must, you have

1:04:19

to have that kind of like, I just want to be

1:04:21

here and I'm really engaged with it and what

1:04:24

I'm getting from you is how much you also really

1:04:27

love

1:04:27

your job and it still

1:04:29

gives you so much fizz which I think is

1:04:31

wonderful. I do and like, you know, for anyone

1:04:34

that sort of asked me about what it's like and

1:04:36

I feel really lucky when, you

1:04:38

know, you spend so much time at work,

1:04:41

I think it is such a gift if

1:04:43

you're able to enjoy what you do and when I look

1:04:45

at Ella Rose and I'm sort of giving her advice

1:04:47

and I'm just saying find something that

1:04:50

you love doing because then it's

1:04:52

just a joy to go to work and it's

1:04:54

not, you know, I want

1:04:56

to be at work, I want to go to

1:04:59

work, yeah, I might not feel like it sometimes at 2.45

1:05:02

in the morning but and

1:05:04

when I speak to journalists or,

1:05:06

you know, people who want to go into journalism

1:05:08

and they're coming up through the training

1:05:11

and wanting to step into

1:05:13

the industry and I just say to them, you know,

1:05:15

yeah, you have to be determined, it is a job that's

1:05:17

going to push you and challenge you in all

1:05:19

sorts of different ways but

1:05:21

you have to love it, you have to

1:05:23

always keep pushing, keep challenging

1:05:25

yourself, keep learning every single

1:05:28

day, that's the thing, I just don't think you can

1:05:30

ever turn around and think,

1:05:31

oh, you know, that's all sorted.

1:05:34

Every time I do an interview, I think, well,

1:05:36

if I'd asked a different question or if we'd

1:05:38

done that bit differently, how would it have gone and,

1:05:41

you know, it's not necessarily sort of picking it all

1:05:43

apart but it's thinking, right, moving forward,

1:05:46

what would we do next time, how can

1:05:48

we change things, this has worked before, should we try

1:05:50

something different, it's just that,

1:05:52

keeps it all fresh, I think, and

1:05:55

that's why I feel really lucky to be working in

1:05:58

news and particularly for some.

1:05:59

somewhere where, you know, we try to

1:06:02

do things a bit differently, make it accessible to people,

1:06:04

make it more conversational, make

1:06:06

it so people

1:06:07

tune in, but they feel like they're with a group of friends

1:06:10

first thing in the morning. So

1:06:12

yeah, just,

1:06:15

it's great to be doing a job like that,

1:06:18

because it never feels like a job.

1:06:19

I think that's the best thing ever. That is the best.

1:06:21

Well, thank you so much, Charlotte, and properly, wise

1:06:23

words, and I was thinking

1:06:26

if we do plan this party with the piano and the thing, it's

1:06:28

got to be an afternoon, hasn't it? You're going

1:06:30

to be street by eight. I mean, let's not have it too late. That's

1:06:32

all I'm saying, obviously, but the piano always. You know, that

1:06:34

means these kids parties, that's where we're at.

1:06:36

You better get learning by S Club or something like that.

1:06:39

We're limited here, but we'll

1:06:41

have a note. It's a deal. Let's do it. Thank you

1:06:43

so much.

1:06:43

Great for the day. Thank you. Thank

1:06:54

you so much, Charlotte. And

1:06:57

I'm right

1:06:59

here.

1:07:01

Thank

1:07:01

you so much, Charlotte, for such a lovely conversation.

1:07:05

And

1:07:07

I think losing your parent is

1:07:09

a really significant thing, at whatever stage in life.

1:07:12

But doing it just before you've had your first child must

1:07:14

feel extraordinarily

1:07:16

bizarre juxtaposition

1:07:19

of extreme emotions. And,

1:07:21

you know, my heart goes out to

1:07:23

her, especially for that time. It's

1:07:25

a lot to process. And I love the

1:07:28

fact that she keeps her dad part of her little

1:07:30

girl's world. I think it's such

1:07:32

an amazing testament to

1:07:34

a loving relationship when

1:07:36

that person is not with you

1:07:39

anymore. You still want to keep them part of your presence.

1:07:41

It's really special. It's really important. And

1:07:45

yeah, thank you very much for listening. You

1:07:48

listening to us. And going

1:07:52

back to my chat at the beginning

1:07:54

of the podcast, that way the Perry Menopop is not going

1:07:56

to be the name of the album. But to

1:07:58

be fair, a lot of things would. rhyme with

1:08:01

that. And yeah, more

1:08:04

to come with the next series. What

1:08:06

am I talking about? I've got one more next week. Oh my

1:08:10

God. A Brain. Oh,

1:08:13

it's a good one next week. There are always good ones.

1:08:15

Come on. Look at how far

1:08:17

we've come with the podcast. Look at all the amazing,

1:08:19

amazing, amazing people who have spoken to me. It's

1:08:22

so many now. It's so solid. So

1:08:25

solid crew.

1:08:26

Okay. All right. I will. Okay.

1:08:28

Goodbye from me. Goodbye. Bye.

1:08:31

Say thank you for listening.

1:08:34

Please say thank you for listening.

1:08:36

I can't turn it off. So you said

1:08:39

thank you. My

1:08:42

robot. He's looking at me with new batteries.

1:08:46

Thank you for listening. Thank you. Have

1:08:48

a

1:08:48

great week. I'm turning

1:08:50

it off. All right. See you next week. Bye.

1:08:55

Look at that rainbow care.

1:08:58

It's amazing. Go

1:09:07

on the

1:09:11

green with Ray and

1:09:13

Jesse and you. All

1:09:15

right. Perfect.

1:09:56

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