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ROW500. Hello,

1:25

I'm Sophia Lispekster, and welcome to Spinning Plates,

1:28

the podcast where I speak to busy working

1:30

women who also happen to be mothers about

1:32

how they make it work. I'm

1:35

a singer, and I've released seven albums in

1:37

between having my five sons aged 16 months

1:39

to 16 years, so I spin a

1:41

few plates myself. Being a mother can

1:43

be the most amazing thing, but can also be

1:45

hard to find time for yourself and your own

1:48

ambitions. I want to be a bit

1:50

nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome

1:52

to Spinning Plates. Yoohoo!

1:56

How you doing? I'm

1:59

out in the morning. cold, blimey

2:01

it's cold it's like um I

2:04

don't know maybe minus two or something I

2:06

know look yes those people who live in places

2:09

that get colder than that but in London it's

2:11

a bit it's a bit aggressive quite

2:13

frankly sorry it's a bit windy

2:15

as you know my microphone Richard's

2:17

loving that as he's uploading the

2:19

pod sorry darling. Anyway

2:22

how are you? Sorry

2:24

to be all British and talk about the weather it's

2:27

just yeah got a bit

2:29

of a shot and let's do it today. I've been

2:32

out and about a little bit it's lunchtime on Friday

2:34

I started the day after

2:36

the usual stuff getting kids ready

2:38

for school. I started

2:40

the day with a dentist trip for my

2:42

my mid-teen he's

2:44

um got braces it's

2:47

that thing where they tighten them and I

2:49

got some fun they've given us some elastics to start

2:51

at night I think that'll go well

2:55

and then what did I do oh then I

2:57

had gym session my

2:59

second of this new year

3:01

yeah it's an attempt okay

3:04

and then and

3:06

I went for a doctor's appointment boring

3:08

nothing to report that and then

3:11

I'm now going home and have quick lunch and

3:13

then I'm going to talk to you I'm doing

3:16

my Eurovision moment dialing in places

3:18

around the world hello Germany

3:20

this is the UK calling because

3:22

I still do my bit to

3:24

support my little song Murder

3:27

on the Dance Floor which is dancing

3:29

its way around the globe for a little while

3:32

which is fun it really

3:34

is fun actually don't feel sick

3:36

anymore sickness is passed I'm

3:38

just enjoying myself just think

3:41

is the entire point and

3:44

also trying to make sure that I kind of keep my

3:46

head a little bit because I was already on both in other

3:48

projects and I want to make sure that everything I'm doing

3:50

you know the

3:52

story continues so yeah

3:55

just trying to kind of keep a clear idea of where

3:58

I'm at and what I want to do but I

4:00

feel good stuff, lucky me. It's

4:02

a really unexpected and fun way to start the new

4:04

year. You

4:06

know what it's like. Life's always like twists

4:09

and turns, that's what it's all

4:12

about. Anyway, podcast

4:14

land. So my guests

4:16

this week, a really

4:18

fascinating moment, and actually I'll tell you a funny story.

4:21

So I don't know if I've

4:23

bored you with this already, but I'll call my own

4:25

guests. So everybody that comes on the podcast, I'd say, or

4:28

maybe like two or three where they've approached me and

4:31

suggested themselves, which I actually really like when that

4:33

happens, but by and large it's people where I

4:36

think, oh, interesting, I'd love to talk to them.

4:39

You know, it could be they've had an interesting adventure

4:41

in their life, they could have an interesting job, there

4:43

might be something I just

4:45

think, right, good conversation exists there.

4:48

So I was reading something and I saw

4:50

about this lady who's a wildlife camera woman.

4:53

I thought, oh, I wonder what that's like. If you go

4:56

off and you're filming for hours

4:58

and hours just waiting for this magic moment

5:01

where an animal that you're watching

5:03

on a long lens camera does

5:05

the thing that, you know, the stuff that we

5:07

end up watching from the comfort of our own

5:09

home and being fascinated by the natural world. But

5:13

you know, the people that film those things, they have to sit

5:15

there still, patient

5:17

for many hours. And

5:20

I wonder what the conditions are like. I wondered what your

5:22

mind space has to be like. And I wondered what

5:24

it's like if you go away for a month at a

5:26

time and you've left, you know,

5:28

your child behind and you're kind of slipping

5:31

into your day job, but it's in such

5:33

a different environment. So

5:35

yes, these were questions I had. So I approached Sophie Darlington,

5:37

today's guest, and I said, oh, I'd love to speak to

5:39

you. And she said to me, I just

5:42

wondered, I approached her on Twitter, I found her

5:44

Twitter and I just sent her a DM saying

5:46

out the blue. Yes,

5:48

slid into her DM. So

5:51

I cringed at you, Sarah. And

5:54

she said, I just wondered how you got my

5:56

name. And so I stumbled across it on the

5:58

internet and she said, well, that's. funny

6:00

because my husband

6:02

does a boxing class with your

6:04

husband and I had

6:06

no idea. Isn't that funny? The world went

6:08

from huge to tiny all at once so

6:11

that was a happy coincidence. Anyway, Sophie

6:15

came over and we had a brilliant chat about

6:18

the environment, working within

6:20

the natural world, acclimatizing

6:23

to that, re-acclimatizing to fit

6:26

your life when you come home again and raising

6:28

a baby all throughout that and about

6:30

the challenges she faced when she was getting

6:33

somewhere with her career and then basically stopped it all

6:35

because she had her baby and then had to kind

6:37

of find a way back in again. I mean

6:40

that's basically the big thing isn't it?

6:42

There's so many potential parents grapple with,

6:44

you know, when is the right time?

6:46

How will this affect the things that

6:49

matter to me right now? So yes,

6:51

really good conversation. I thought she's absolutely

6:53

brilliant. You're in for a treat and

6:56

I'm going to go inside because I'm basically

6:58

hovering in like next to my

7:00

front door to finish telling you

7:02

about today but basically the essence of it

7:04

is Sophie Darlington is very interesting and I think you're

7:07

going to love it. Oh,

7:09

well I've got you. If you can think of

7:11

any people for the next series, I'm starting to

7:13

book them in. I've already got a couple of

7:15

lovely women but if there's anybody else you think,

7:17

oh I would love to hear about

7:19

them and more about their how

7:22

motherhood has affected them, how their work

7:24

works, you know, their life story, please,

7:27

please give me your tips and tricks

7:29

because some of your suggestions have been

7:31

absolutely brilliant and have turned into episodes so

7:34

I really value it. Mainly thanks

7:36

for lending me your ears for the next little while.

7:38

Here's Sophie and Sophie. I'll see

7:40

you there. I

7:51

think it's really lovely to meet you and I

7:54

should probably talk about the rocky

7:57

nature effect. I reached out to you because I'd read

7:59

about your... online I thought this woman sounds

8:01

amazing and then when you replied

8:03

to me firstly very sweetly to say yes you'd come

8:05

and talk to me for a podcast but also you said just

8:08

check how you knew about me because my

8:11

nearly husband and your husband a box in

8:13

your garden correctly and I had absolutely no

8:15

idea that our other half knew each other

8:17

which was really wacky but how brilliant it's

8:19

bizarre and fantastic I love it I love

8:22

it and it was like

8:24

no nothing to do with them nothing to

8:26

do with them perfect all about you whatever

8:29

word that I'm saying

8:31

yeah yeah but um how

8:34

are you at the moment because you just come back

8:36

from location is that right in Kenya yeah so tell

8:38

me a little bit about what you are doing there

8:41

so I am a wildlife

8:43

cinematographer so I was following

8:45

and here's the

8:47

really strange thing is that we work for many

8:49

years on loads of things and we're not allowed

8:51

to talk about anything until they're out and they

8:53

take three years so the project I'm working on

8:55

now is coming out in 2026 fabulous

8:59

but I can't say I was in Kenya

9:01

and I was filming and it's brilliant it's

9:03

gonna be really brilliant and it means

9:06

getting up at dawn actually

9:08

that's a complete fabrication it means

9:10

getting up way before dawn getting out

9:12

there for dawn which

9:14

is the best part of the day luckily and

9:16

then trying to find your star or your

9:19

critter and then sitting with them for the

9:21

day until the light goes and so you

9:23

spend 12 over 12

9:25

hours a day hopefully sitting with your subject and

9:28

it could be a lion a cheetah or an elephant whatever it might

9:30

be in Kenya you're gonna have

9:32

to wait until 2026 to find out but

9:38

yes so you I've been out

9:40

doing that for a month and you don't I don't

9:42

do days off when I'm out on location so

9:44

it's fantastic it is the best job in the

9:46

world I'm very very lucky to do it it's

9:50

also slightly odd because you come back rinsed

9:52

and you kind of fall over I imagine

9:54

like you do when you're on tour well

9:57

yes and no I think with there's

10:01

a little bit more different gears

10:03

used. I'd imagine with you when

10:05

you go away it's a bit more

10:08

kind of all on,

10:10

it's all encompassing and if you're doing

10:12

long, long, long days like that, that's

10:15

all of your brain space dedicated to that

10:17

thing. So why did we move it to

10:19

conversation we could talk about? What was the

10:21

last animal you're working with that you can

10:23

talk to me about? I can talk to

10:26

you about so many animals. So there's something

10:28

coming out, Planet Earth 3

10:30

is coming out and I was in Sri Lanka and

10:33

I was getting up

10:35

every morning pre-dawn to sit in

10:37

a hide to try and film an

10:40

animal, nailing another animal. That's a

10:43

dreadful description. It's an awful thing. That's

10:46

what we do, we film sex, death

10:48

and you know, behaviour. Rock and roll?

10:51

Yes, well we listened to rock and roll. Last

10:54

year I worked in

10:56

Antarctica. So that

10:59

meant I flew to the Falklands and

11:01

then got a sailboat, a 24 metre

11:04

sailboat and we went across the Drake's Passage.

11:06

There was two other

11:08

camera people, various

11:11

dive assistants because one of the camera people was

11:13

diving with leopard seals, drones

11:16

and then the captain of the boat and the cook

11:19

and me as

11:21

the only woman, which is quite standard

11:23

in my line of work. I was going to say,

11:25

I bet that's not unusual. Yeah, we need to shake

11:27

that up a bit. We're working on that. And

11:31

that meant it took us somehow, I think

11:33

it was like 11 days to get there and

11:35

going across the Drake's Passage, which is famously

11:38

the most curbing passage of

11:40

sea in the world in a really

11:42

small boat where you literally

11:44

at times you look out the window and

11:46

your window is underwater. It's under the ocean.

11:49

And I'm a little bit like when I was a

11:51

kid, I grew up with an Irish wolfhound. And

11:54

on a boat, I'm a bit like Irish wolfhound was on a

11:56

boat, my feet sort of splay and I'm

11:58

not particularly comfortable. I'd much

12:01

rather be on dry land. But

12:03

then you get to the Antarctic Peninsula and

12:05

you stop and

12:09

land in these incredible

12:11

locations and hang out with penguins

12:13

for, you know, with Gen

12:15

2 penguins on this occasion for three,

12:17

four weeks every day

12:19

and then you get on the boat and then you

12:22

come home again. It's

12:24

a very hard life really when you think

12:26

about it. Well, it's definitely

12:28

not typical. But then I guess when

12:31

you're working in it, then you're swimming alongside

12:33

people where that's also the thing they do.

12:35

So it's not a shorthand of how your

12:38

job runs. And then passion, huge

12:40

passion. I think everyone that I work with loves

12:42

what they do and that's why we want to

12:44

kind of go to the end of the earth

12:46

to kind of bring back these images that hopefully if

12:49

we're doing our job right, that make them feel the

12:51

way we feel when we're filming them. So

12:53

if we're getting people to kind of go, right, I

12:55

give a stuff about this penguin, this lion,

12:58

this whatever it might be, then we're

13:00

winning. That's the point of

13:02

it, I think. Yes, telling the story. But

13:05

I suppose also, I'm imagining

13:07

when I watch something at home, what

13:10

I'm seeing is not just hours,

13:12

but months and months accumulating

13:14

this very special footage

13:17

to give me an insight into the life of

13:20

that animal and the environment

13:22

and the landscape to really take

13:24

you there. But leave out all

13:26

the bits where nothing much is

13:28

going on. Most of

13:30

the bits where nothing much is going on.

13:32

Yeah, exactly. The days and days and hours

13:35

or the trips where you go and you

13:37

come back empty handed because the behaviour hasn't

13:39

happened. Or the weather hasn't been in a

13:42

favour. Which happens more and more now.

13:45

Or you come back with something brilliant that you had an

13:48

anticipation, that's even better. And you've filmed something

13:50

that nobody's ever seen before and you're like,

13:52

yeah, check that out. I mean,

13:54

that's amazing. And so when you're

13:56

filming, how many other humans

13:58

are around you? It

14:01

depends. If I'm working from a car,

14:03

I work with, I have a

14:05

real privilege of working with a guy called Sammy

14:07

Munene, who's a Kenyan specialist

14:10

wildlife film driver. And I spent

14:12

more time with him than I would say with my family,

14:14

because we just sit there in a car next to

14:16

each other, usually waiting for a lion to wake up

14:18

or a cheetah. And it's

14:21

just the two of

14:24

us. So we have this really,

14:26

because we worked together for years, so we've

14:28

got this really lovely kind of shorthand. And

14:31

his trust is, he'll put me in the

14:34

right position and he trusts me to get it.

14:36

But he'll talk to me the whole time, because

14:38

when you're looking, I work with lenses. So

14:40

I'm a long lens specialist. And

14:42

that means I'm usually on the sort

14:44

of a thousand millimeter end of a lens,

14:47

which is sort of 20 times closer

14:49

than you would normally see things. So I

14:52

can be looking at a lion's eyeball and

14:54

be completely unaware that there's an elephant doing a

14:56

tango three inches to the left. So

15:00

he's the guy who goes so

15:02

left a bit. So there's

15:04

a huge amount of trust. And usually, an

15:07

Antarctic, I was by myself. I

15:10

would sort of like slip around in mud

15:12

and welly boots, you

15:14

know, moving with all the penguins. It felt like they

15:16

were laughing. I'm not sure if they were, but it

15:19

really felt like it. Yeah.

15:21

So it's usually me, if I'm on

15:23

foot with an assistant, if I'm

15:25

not on foot, just with someone more

15:28

often than not, a

15:31

local guide, someone

15:33

with incredible knowledge that I'm able to

15:35

tap into. And I suppose

15:38

you've got to find for yourself the

15:41

balance between tapping

15:44

that person and making the time pass,

15:46

but also keeping alert so that you

15:48

can actually be there to get your

15:50

job done,

15:54

which might make your brain feel like it's in a weird

15:56

sort of a... I'd picture it a

15:58

bit like when you're... In

16:00

transit and you kind of put yourself almost

16:02

on the standby mode. This is there but

16:05

you've like almost Turned

16:07

down a lot of your other Senses

16:09

and thought processes so you can just

16:11

exist in that space and not Busy

16:14

yourself with all the other things that can make you distracted or

16:16

up and down. I love that. That's so

16:18

true No, that's really true. You're kind of

16:21

you're there's an incredible

16:23

liberation to being so focused

16:25

on one thing and so

16:27

entirely You're looking at

16:29

that elephant. You're trying to work out what

16:31

that elephant might do what's going on How

16:33

you can interpret it that absolutely everything else

16:36

gets pushed on hold and it

16:38

there's a real as someone

16:40

who comes home and I'm a bit of a Control

16:43

freak, but I like to know how

16:45

you know I like my things done in a

16:48

certain way and you have to give up complete

16:50

control To this animal because

16:52

they're dictating your day and your world

16:54

and the weather you have no control

16:56

over anything and there's That's

16:59

an amazing place to be and to

17:01

have that focus and concentration It's

17:03

a real luxury in that and then you come home. You're like,

17:05

okay now life Yeah, but

17:07

then as well for you, I Guess

17:11

there's this juxtaposition of when you describe what

17:13

you do Someone like me.

17:15

Hmm. It might as well be like

17:17

saying you do like expositions on another

17:19

planet and yet What

17:21

you're actually documenting is the wealth and

17:24

breadth of everything that is going on

17:26

on the planet We share with all

17:28

of those creatures and yes but

17:31

most of us can just sort of switch off and

17:33

just be dealing with this as 360 of city life

17:35

or Whatever,

17:38

you know how most of us live but actually that's

17:40

all going on right now All that

17:42

all those things you've documented are all happening

17:44

simultaneously But also in

17:46

you know the park in the

17:48

you know Not just in on the

17:51

continent of Africa or an Antarctica or Alaska.

17:53

It's happening in It's

17:56

happening in the garden, you know, it's happening.

17:58

It's right here and now Chris

18:01

Mackham, who I worship, I think

18:04

he's incredible, worship's a

18:06

bit strong, but I think he's cool.

18:08

I think he's a cool principle human.

18:11

And I was yesterday, I

18:14

was watching him talk, because there was

18:16

a paper released about the state of nature

18:18

and how depleted the UK is the most

18:20

depleted in the G7. And he

18:22

was saying to every

18:24

single person there, there was an

18:26

unprecedented gathering of scientists and NGOs coming

18:28

together to say to the government, would

18:30

you ever please come

18:33

on? And he's

18:35

just said every single one of us are here because

18:37

we had that moment with nature, that kind

18:39

of clicked something in our heads. And

18:42

everybody has that. I think that the people

18:44

who were there yesterday represented something like 8

18:47

million people in

18:49

the UK who love and care about nature.

18:51

So you say,

18:53

yeah, our world's going on 360

18:55

around us. But actually, I

18:57

think all of us love and desperately

18:59

need that connection with nature. I'm just really lucky that

19:01

it gets to be my job. Yeah,

19:03

I think you're right. And I definitely

19:06

want to revisit a conversation about the

19:08

planet, because I'd imagine that's

19:10

so completely woven into

19:12

the very fabric of everything that you're

19:14

documenting. But if I could just ask

19:16

you, so what was happening in your

19:18

world when you had your baby? Because

19:21

when you're so passionate about your

19:24

work, but also it's such a

19:26

big commitment of your headspace, your

19:28

time, what was going on at the

19:30

time when you were having your baby? He was

19:33

in with 23. He is. He is. He

19:35

is. He is. He

19:37

is. He is. He

19:39

is. He is. He is.

19:42

He is. He is. He is.

19:45

He is. He is. He

19:47

is. Seven years

19:49

max, but I was just beginning to really

19:52

understand it. I feel like get into it and

19:54

get into my groove and love it

19:56

and get to travel a bit and

19:58

not, you know. all the time, right?

20:00

But I was also traveling and

20:03

I had just directed my first film

20:05

in Tanzania as well, so I filmed and directed it.

20:08

It felt like

20:10

a really great time and I hadn't really thought

20:12

about having a baby. And

20:16

then when my son came along

20:18

it was a real surprise. It

20:21

was like an absolute bonus.

20:23

It wasn't something I discounted but it wasn't something I'd

20:25

planned for. And it was, I had

20:27

sort of imagined that work would continue but hadn't

20:30

really thought about the practicalities of 16-hour

20:32

days and how can you be a

20:34

parent and how can you nurse and

20:36

how can you, and as a result

20:40

it sort of everything flipped and

20:43

I had to stop. And

20:45

that was a bit of a shock because

20:48

so much of my identity was absolutely

20:50

tied up in being a cinematographer

20:52

and traveling and being in wildlife and

20:54

having these incredible adventures

20:57

and having my son was a massive

20:59

adventure and it's one of, it's the best thing I've

21:01

ever done without a shadow of a doubt. But

21:04

it was at the time a very

21:07

scary moment for me. I felt very much

21:09

alone. I felt very much invisible.

21:11

I was suddenly pushing a pram in

21:13

East London with no direction

21:15

and no idea as a freelancer because

21:18

I think when you're outside of structured

21:20

work there was no, you know, it was like here's

21:22

your whatever it was 90 quid a week from the

21:24

government, good luck, you know. And I

21:27

ended up not filming for properly

21:30

for about eight years. Wow.

21:32

Yeah and that was because

21:34

I just couldn't work out, my marriage

21:37

imploded, my, you know, it was a

21:39

really, but actually a very incredibly

21:42

productive time. I went and lived in the Serengeti with

21:44

my son for a year and a half which

21:46

not many people do when their kids are four and

21:48

a half. And what was the thought process? This

21:50

doesn't work, this is just I want to go

21:52

and experience it with him. No, it was work.

21:55

It wasn't when you say thought process. But

21:58

it didn't work for eight years but you had a job. Oh,

22:00

God, no, I had to work. I had

22:02

no money. So I worked, but I couldn't

22:04

work in as a camerawoman. Oh, I see.

22:06

I see. As a cinematographer. So I worked.

22:09

I worked at ZSL London Zoo raising money

22:11

for Tigers. I worked as

22:14

a production manager for film. I went out to the

22:16

Serengeti and I worked on a film. I

22:19

was meant to film. It never happened. I ended up

22:21

ordering carrots in Triplicate. But

22:24

Louis came with me. And so

22:26

we had this amazing year and a

22:28

half and he would go back every eight weeks to see his

22:30

dad and various friends and families ferried him

22:33

backwards and forwards. But he

22:35

lived with me there, which was

22:37

an amazing moment. You know, he was only

22:39

little, but it was preschool. And

22:43

we got to, you know, go out every

22:45

weekend camping. And it was he has

22:48

a deep hatred of ants as a result, which

22:51

is fair enough. They did swarm him one

22:53

night. But I guess that

22:56

probably that's such a formative time.

22:58

At that age, four

23:00

and a half is when they're really coming

23:03

out with like their whole little character, you can really

23:05

see who they are. And to have that

23:07

time, just the two of you, it's

23:09

also age, I think, with a common sense is a

23:12

little bit better. So, you know, they're not that baby

23:14

baby anymore. They come out toddler. And they probably

23:17

formed a bit of a keystone in the dynamic

23:19

you have between you even now that you had

23:21

that time where he saw you working, but you

23:24

were in somewhere other it was a

23:26

bit more intense of your relationship, but also that this

23:29

different backdrop could be playful and

23:31

different and fun. Yeah, no, we

23:33

were we had an extraordinary time.

23:36

I mean, we traveled around, but he

23:38

also claims to remember absolutely none of

23:40

it, which is great. Really

23:42

reassuring. I'm really glad that I didn't

23:44

work for him. All the people at

23:46

the ferry and back and forth. Yeah,

23:49

brilliant. Time well spent. But

23:52

yeah, so he no, I think he does remember

23:54

it. And he remembers little things like we

23:57

had a Land Rover with a tent on top of it in the top.

24:00

of us would just take off and you

24:02

know we'd cook baked beans literally in the back of

24:04

this thing and you'd go to bed with the sound

24:06

of the hyenas or the lions and that's

24:08

something really I think

24:10

you mentioned you'd been to Kenya when you were

24:12

four and how much it really sort of imprinted

24:15

on your memory. Oh I remember I mean unlike

24:17

your son I do actually remember quite a lot

24:19

of things for but then maybe I'm remembering remembering

24:21

because I know that that

24:24

trip was unlike anything I've ever

24:26

done before and my

24:28

dad used to have this thing where he'd say

24:30

to me take a picture and you know

24:32

put it in your mind so it did

24:34

actually work I have got memories from different trips to

24:36

get. Good advice. Yeah I mean he I think he

24:39

he probably felt like I was that typical kid where

24:41

I'd be in the back of the car reading and

24:43

he'd be going look up the view's amazing and I'd

24:45

kind of go and then go back to my book

24:47

so I think a lot of it was like come

24:49

on but I think we went

24:51

to Kenya you know it

24:53

was it was literally giraffes galloping past

24:55

the train as we were traveling it

24:58

was going on safari and seeing

25:00

lions it was seeing all sorts

25:02

of nature but also just I mean the

25:04

colours it was just such a vibrant everything sort

25:06

of turned up in the contrast right up yes

25:09

and I think I was just drinking all in

25:11

because it wasn't somewhere I'd ever heard of anyone

25:13

traveling to it wasn't like people come back from

25:15

holiday there so kind

25:17

of extraordinary and as

25:19

you say maybe you've always got

25:21

more of that layered in but in a different way

25:23

and I don't know if you did

25:26

other trips with you maybe it starts to intermingle

25:28

but that first time would have been plus you

25:30

got to bed and a year and a half

25:32

is not kind of like a yeah no we

25:34

had the most amazing you know infrastructure and he

25:36

had you know great friends there

25:39

um um and no

25:41

he was really we were really lucky what what

25:43

an amazing thing to be able to do incredible

25:45

and he went back when he was sort of

25:47

maybe eight or nine and just like you described

25:49

remember sort of him driving around with the

25:52

director of the film I was working on

25:54

who was sort of like Louie was deep

25:56

into his you know reading a

25:58

cartoon and that And it would be like,

26:01

love, love, there are five lions roaring

26:03

just here. Would you ever? Yeah.

26:07

You know, head down completely.

26:09

But yeah, I think it, I think it

26:11

was, I'm really glad I didn't

26:14

plan to have a child. I'm so

26:16

lucky and delighted that I did as I

26:18

say, best thing. But also

26:20

I think it took me a long time to

26:22

realize there is,

26:24

I kind of always, I

26:26

felt really hard on myself for going

26:29

back to work when he was eight,

26:31

because it was really hard leaving him,

26:33

you know, and having that, that thing

26:35

where, you know, you'd have a child on your leg

26:37

and you'd be trying to leave the house. But

26:40

actually he has an amazing relationship with

26:42

my mum because of it, because she came to

26:44

look after him. So I'm really happy about that.

26:47

And, and, and also with his ego to

26:49

spend more time with, you

26:52

know, having a, a slightly

26:54

different family. He got to spend time with

26:56

all of us as opposed to

26:58

just, you know, in one place. So actually I think

27:00

it's an amazing thing. And I used

27:02

to cast myself. I used

27:04

to feel really guilty, really guilty about

27:07

it all. But, um, actually

27:10

I think I wasn't a bad parent.

27:12

I just wasn't a conventional parent. And

27:15

that's really important to remember that that's

27:17

okay. It's right. It's okay

27:19

to be unconventional. Yeah. And

27:21

it's an important distinction to make. Hey,

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That's aura.com/safety to learn more and

29:12

activate the 14-day trial period. I

29:18

think we put such

29:20

an emphasis on the parenting

29:23

during childhood, but it's a long-term

29:26

relationship where

29:28

at some point

29:31

your child is

29:33

an adult and the conversation becomes more

29:35

grown-up and they see you in a

29:37

different light. And I

29:39

don't know that you win many

29:41

prizes for taking

29:44

something that's so clearly a big passion for

29:46

you and say part of who you are

29:49

and what makes you feel good.

29:51

Putting that down on low and then never

29:53

revisiting it again just so you can not be

29:55

away for four weeks under eight. And I know

29:57

look, I'm sure... billions

30:00

of people on mum's neck would disagree with me. Because I remember

30:02

when I was about to leave one of them once and I

30:04

was feeling wobbly and I'd made the mistake of googling it and

30:06

there's just all these people kind of going, well, I mean, it

30:08

is fine to leave them if that's all right with you. And

30:10

personally, I never would, I would never. But if you want to.

30:13

But that being said, the bigger picture

30:15

is they start to get to know you now and look

30:17

at now that it's so much part of who you are. And

30:19

you're like, yeah, this is what my mum

30:21

does. It's fantastic. He says he's really proud of me,

30:23

which is an amazing moment. At my 50th, he

30:26

stood up and he thanked me for giving

30:28

him his long neck. And

30:30

which was great, but he also said he

30:32

was really proud of me. And that was

30:34

absolutely a moment

30:36

because you didn't

30:38

need him to. But it was really lovely to hear

30:40

it. Just, you know, I obviously paid him. But

30:43

he's and I'm

30:45

immensely proud of him. Yeah, because

30:48

he's sort of this remarkable human being

30:50

who's very, you know, he he

30:52

knows who he is, which is great. Yeah.

30:55

And and and actually to get

30:57

back to work at eight. That's plenty

30:59

time. You know, I worked in many other

31:01

things just trying to keep afloat. But I

31:03

feel so lucky that I had this job.

31:06

I went away and I got a chance to

31:08

do it again, which makes it even more precious

31:10

this time, but also makes me

31:12

advocate slightly differently this time from it.

31:15

I'm coming at it from a different

31:17

perspective. And I

31:19

think being a parent makes me a better filmmaker. How

31:22

so? Because

31:24

I think I'm slightly less selfish. I

31:26

think when you're a kid, you're really selfish. And when

31:29

you have a child, you can't be selfish. And

31:31

so then when you're a parent, you can't be selfish. And then

31:33

you suddenly go on location and maybe that's

31:35

just growing up, maybe. Possibly.

31:38

But I felt like I was a better

31:42

person on location and better to be

31:44

around because of having been a parent.

31:46

But I mean, I think people who've never

31:48

had kids are equally brilliant on location,

31:51

so I'm just really just talking rubbish. Well,

31:53

no, I think there's all sorts of things that can can

31:56

be the moments that get us to

31:59

that feeling. like that. And

32:01

I do think that

32:03

there's many, many ways to open up that gate

32:05

into being, as you said, easy to be around

32:07

a bit more empathetic to people around you, a

32:09

bit more gentle with the edges

32:12

of how things go, fight your battles in

32:14

a different way. And quite often,

32:17

parenthood is a bit of like big like jump into

32:19

a lot of that stuff. Yeah,

32:21

absolutely. You're never going to win, are you?

32:24

No, I mean, when you're describing watching the

32:26

elephant and how little control you have over

32:28

it when you're watching, I was thinking she

32:30

could have just substituted a lesson to teenager

32:32

and we'd probably go through. Sometimes I bet

32:35

you wanted a long lens. No,

32:37

I was really lucky. He was he

32:39

was incredible. He was he was a

32:41

good teenager, but he also, do

32:44

you know about state boarding schools? Yeah,

32:46

well, I've heard about it. Yeah, I mean,

32:49

my friends that were used to tease me and

32:51

call it a boarstool, which was mean. It

32:54

wasn't, but he chose to go to a

32:56

state boarding school. So he would every week

32:58

head off. And it's it's

33:01

a comprehensive, but for kids whose parents

33:03

work abroad or work at

33:05

jobs where they can't say it's it's

33:09

an he had an extraordinary education

33:12

through it and also has this real independence. It's

33:14

not right for everyone. And it was his choice.

33:16

I was totally miserable about the choice.

33:18

I didn't want him to go away because I went to

33:20

boarding school as a kid. But

33:23

my parents were living in Iran. So I kind of had to. So

33:26

where was your boarding school then? It was it

33:28

was in Sussex and then Ireland. I moved

33:31

my mum moved to Ireland

33:33

with her new partner. When

33:35

I was around 11 and

33:38

there were six, it was like the Brody Bunch. Suddenly

33:40

there was there was, I mean, I

33:42

know you've got five. So you know what, a big family,

33:44

but I came from three and then Rufus

33:47

had three. And

33:50

I was brought to Ireland to Drada, which

33:52

is this town about an hour north of

33:55

Dublin from an

33:57

English school. And the reason

33:59

I sound Irish, but I'm not is because

34:01

I had to suddenly I was

34:03

thrown in the deep end into a school and to

34:05

survive I decided to adopt an Irish

34:07

accent. Wow. Well,

34:10

with a name like Sophie Darlington, you don't really blend

34:12

in. It's like they

34:14

know you're not Irish, right? Sophie O.

34:16

Darlington. I am. Yes, exactly.

34:22

But I loved my time there. I spent

34:24

many years in Ireland and it's like I'm so

34:26

grateful for that. It was phenomenal,

34:28

but it was a real shock

34:30

going from boarding school in England in Sussex to

34:33

boarding school in Drogheda. Yeah,

34:35

I bet. And actually that thing is, I

34:38

mean, is an interesting

34:40

psychology to take you on an accent at

34:42

11 to be good to blend in. That's

34:44

an amazingly sort of self-preservation

34:47

thing. Okay, like if I just need to, you

34:50

know, I want to have my head kicked in

34:52

for being English. It was really simple. And

34:54

actually, I mean,

34:57

yeah, it's I'm Scott. So it's

34:59

the whole thing is ludicrous anyway.

35:02

But it's stuck. The accent sucks. It's like the

35:04

wind changed. More Guinness. Yeah, it

35:06

is like the wind changed. More Guinness I have.

35:08

More I should become. Amazing. And if

35:10

I'm hanging out with a load of English people, then

35:13

I become more English. I'm a chameleon, I think.

35:16

Yes, possibly a little bit. And I suppose

35:19

blending into your surroundings has become part of your day

35:22

job now. It's

35:24

like an oral camouflage.

35:27

Yeah, I think sometimes traveling

35:30

around a lot as a child or, you

35:32

know, having to uproot and go that does

35:34

definitely, it definitely becomes part of

35:36

your story. I think my mum had that too. She

35:38

moved around a lot when she's young and

35:41

I think it does make you have to

35:43

adapt in a different way. Yeah, as opposed

35:45

to kids who never had that. They just

35:47

had a very consistent, you know, predictable shapes

35:49

at all. Yeah, it's to really envy them.

35:53

Yeah, but then when you get older, there's probably

35:55

things in your toolbox that they might not have.

35:57

Absolutely. And you each just, you kind of make

35:59

do with. you've got I guess.

36:01

I'm very lucky to have had

36:04

the upbringing I had to have spent

36:06

time as a kid in Iran to

36:08

have gone to the Caspian Sea and to

36:10

these amazing cities. When people say Iran to

36:12

me I just think of the

36:14

great beauty and amazing

36:16

architecture and incredible culture. It's sort of

36:18

like it's somewhere I would love to

36:21

go back to. So I'm really

36:23

lucky to have had that in Ireland and

36:25

a bit of New Zealand from my stepfather

36:27

and a bit of you know. Wow

36:29

that's a lot. Great melting pot. But

36:33

also I suppose when you came to

36:35

be a young woman throwing

36:37

yourself into these situations where sometimes you

36:40

are maybe one of the few females

36:42

there. I know that

36:44

with working on location

36:46

with crews there's no

36:49

slack cut. It's like okay this

36:51

is what we're here to do. You've got to get it

36:53

done. You've got to muck in. You've got

36:55

to find the dynamics to the group. So

36:58

probably those that resilience of being able to jump

37:00

in they need to kind

37:02

of adapt. I think that's yeah that's

37:04

right and also you're so lucky on

37:06

your journey aren't you who you meet. So when

37:08

my mentor was a guy called Hugo van

37:10

Laueck. Hugo van Laueck was married

37:12

to Jane Goodall the primatologist.

37:14

Not entirely unknown for her strength. A

37:17

woman a really so he had no

37:20

fear of women who were independent. In

37:23

fact he completely and utterly

37:25

lifted and allied. And so

37:27

I was incredibly lucky with who I got to

37:30

be working with and trained

37:32

by. Because you can imagine it could

37:34

have gone very differently. And

37:36

what is the state of affairs

37:38

now for women in cinematography? It's

37:40

getting so much better Sophie. I

37:42

can't tell you. I've

37:44

just been involved in a project called Queens which

37:47

is an amazing series

37:49

that will be out on National Geographic next

37:52

year's revelatory because it looks at

37:55

animals from a female perspective.

37:58

Which is great because you think about it. it. Like, where

38:02

do we have all our animal behavior learnt from? It's

38:04

sort of from Darwin, who was not famously female

38:08

or, you know, his views

38:10

were very much from a, from one

38:12

side. And so then if you look at

38:14

nature from another side, and so many interesting behaviors

38:19

and, and characters are female led,

38:21

the societies are female led. And

38:23

so we did that. But with a view to when

38:28

I started, there was like a handful of

38:30

women, not even a handful of women doing

38:32

it on their own. And

38:34

that was quite, that was

38:36

really the same for for many, many years.

38:39

And actually, the only way you

38:41

get more women to do it is we had

38:44

to just actively get out there. And so we

38:46

mentored on Queen's for

38:48

no five incredibly talented young

38:50

women, Tanzanian women, Erica

38:53

Rugavanda, Faith Mssendi from Kenya,

38:55

Erin from Alaska, Tanya from

38:57

Mexico, and Gail.

38:59

So we had like five women that we

39:02

gave a sort of fast track

39:06

on the production too, so that the

39:09

more women we get out there, the more stories, the more

39:11

women, the more of

39:13

a still be so there's now and

39:15

suddenly, there's been this amazing explosion

39:18

of women looking around and seeing other women doing

39:20

it that salt see her to be her

39:22

is such an important thing. Yes. And

39:25

that's why someone like Faith or Erica are

39:27

so important because to have people, Faith

39:30

is a producer, and to

39:32

have a Kenyan producer who the

39:35

other day had her first show she's

39:37

ever produced on Kenyan television, it was

39:39

such a moment, you know, to

39:42

see her just she's just,

39:44

she's an incredible talent, but to

39:47

see how that will inspire so

39:49

many women. Yeah,

39:52

that's so there's more in really

39:54

long winded answer, there is many more than there

39:56

was we need still more it's still as a

39:58

proportion but within Yeah, no, I feel,

40:00

I mean, from sort of all aspects

40:02

of film and that other side of the camera,

40:04

I feel like there's been a real shift

40:07

in the tide, you know? But

40:10

it is all recent, but as

40:12

you say, it's all kind of gathering momentum.

40:14

I think the first female cinematographer nominated after

40:16

was only like 2017 or 18, something

40:19

like that. It's recent. Yeah, yeah, no, for

40:21

sure, from Mudbound and then Rachel, not Rachel.

40:24

Oh, God, this is where I forget all my names.

40:27

But yeah, Mandy Walker was, you know, last year was

40:29

one of the, you know, one of the few. I'm

40:31

part of an incredible collective called

40:33

Illuminaetrix, which is women

40:36

who are DOPs. And I have

40:39

never, it's an incredible collective to

40:41

be a part of because not only because

40:43

of the talent, which is just, you know,

40:46

it's just incredible, but also the way they

40:48

share their knowledge. There is

40:50

such a different way of being

40:53

with this collective to anything I've been a part of.

40:56

People can just get on there

40:58

and it's a really open and

41:00

good space. And

41:02

so I think we work differently and we complement, you

41:05

know, it's not like we're better. We all

41:07

just do it differently. And the more voices

41:09

we have, certainly in my line of work

41:11

right now, the

41:13

more voices we have at

41:15

a time when we need voices. It's so

41:17

important. And so let's get as many women,

41:20

let's get people from their own countries telling

41:22

their own stories. Let's get it out there

41:24

as quickly as possible. It's so important. Yeah.

41:26

But you're right. It has even it's beginning

41:29

to even out. It's still archaic, but we're

41:31

getting there. Yeah, it does feel like, as

41:33

you say, the more voices and names, the

41:36

more people think, oh, okay, this is becoming

41:38

more commonplace that maybe an avenue I can

41:40

explore. If I could go back to

41:42

when you had your baby. Yeah. So

41:45

if you're someone that's used to observing

41:47

the minutiae of life and

41:49

nature, what did you think about having

41:51

a kid in that regard? I

41:54

felt like I was having an alien. I think I

41:56

was so unprepared. When I go on a shoot, I'm

41:58

really, I have all my resources. And

42:01

I'm just going to say, I don't think those classes, what

42:04

are they, NCT? I

42:06

don't think they gave me that. It's what

42:08

I needed. I needed papers. I need researchers

42:10

giving me documents. No, I remember

42:13

just looking after I had them and

42:16

looking in the little kind of plastic bucket

42:18

they put them in next to you, you know, by the bed.

42:21

And just that feeling of like,

42:23

everything has changed. This

42:25

is extraordinary. I'm

42:27

not ready for this because I don't think you ever feel

42:29

ready, do you? Do you feel ready

42:31

by the fifth? Fourth,

42:34

third? I think

42:38

not really, no, because I think you

42:40

always feel like, oh, golly, it's a

42:42

whole other person. Yeah. It's

42:45

not a one size fits all thing. I don't

42:47

feel like they need exactly the same things from

42:49

me. And in a way,

42:51

when I got to my last baby, when

42:54

I had Mickey, Sunny was 14. And

42:57

I felt like if the first one

42:59

made me kind of almost giddy, a

43:01

bit drunk on it all, like, oh my

43:03

gosh, everything's changed. This new baby, how are

43:05

the hormones? Having a

43:07

fifth one was like being much more sober. It

43:10

was like, he's here now. And

43:12

I know roughly what lies ahead. And

43:14

I know that this is the little

43:16

squidgy bit, but I also know I've got to help

43:18

him get through all these little moments. I

43:21

saw that a lot more clearly.

43:23

Amazing. Yeah. I

43:25

think for me right now, I got

43:28

a real gift recently,

43:30

which is I had Lou, my boy, 23.

43:34

I've suddenly got, I'm stepmom to

43:36

an 11 year old girl who

43:38

is, I've known since she was

43:42

eight. And she's just miraculous

43:44

because she is, as you say, they're

43:46

all different. But also suddenly

43:48

being, I'm not a parent because she's

43:50

got two brilliant parents. But

43:52

being a part of her life is, is

43:55

extraordinary and terrifying because

43:57

she's an 11 going on 50 years old. 16,

44:00

20, whatever, you're a whole girl.

44:03

And it's so different. I'm like, okay, so I

44:05

can't get the leg. I can't get the leg

44:07

out. I can't draw. What can I do? You

44:09

know, oh, okay. I've got

44:12

to go to, you know, got to go

44:14

to a retro shop. It's

44:17

a different thing. She's so cool. She's

44:21

just cooler than Yeah, no, she's

44:23

ridiculous. That's great. But I think, I think

44:26

you're right about step parenting as a sort of, a

44:28

sort of an other. But I think

44:30

the thing is just sort of, it sounds like

44:33

you're ready. Oh, like just lean into that really.

44:35

She's got the parents. You

44:38

can be the I mean, I think it's

44:40

quite good in a way you don't get a manual for

44:42

it because it becomes about the two of you and what

44:44

your relationship needs it to be. And that's,

44:46

that's completely okay. Whatever it looks

44:48

like. Yeah, I think so. And not as I said,

44:50

that her parents are brilliant. She doesn't need

44:52

another parent. She's, but we have a

44:54

we've already got an amazing relationship. She's

44:56

an absolute beacon of joy.

44:59

She's amazing. That's well, I bet

45:01

she thinks you're pretty, pretty cool. So when

45:03

you're doing your usual work, how often

45:05

are you away? And the year how many

45:07

trips do you go on? I try not to do more than

45:09

six months, because I'm I'm

45:12

I'm I'm I

45:14

think it's I'd like to remain with

45:16

my partner with Nick. I really

45:18

like him. There would be really

45:21

rough. So

45:23

I but also I think

45:25

that you I go away for

45:27

a month, come back for a couple of weeks, three

45:29

weeks. And then I take a few

45:32

months off in what

45:34

I'm filming right now, when it's wet in Kenya,

45:36

which is sort of March, April, you can't film

45:38

there. So I'm sort of forced to have those

45:40

months off, which is great. And and

45:44

I also like doing other

45:46

things. I'm I'm developing my

45:48

own projects. And you know, I'm sort of like,

45:50

I've got like my finger in those little pies, which I'm

45:53

really enjoying. And when you were back at work, I

45:55

mean, you would be going back to work when he was

45:57

eight. And you sort of said like

45:59

it was That

46:01

must be quite a big deal to get

46:03

back into something like that, isn't it? I

46:06

was very lucky because there was a film

46:09

being made in Kenya and I

46:11

do work in other places but

46:16

East Africa has been a real sort of like place

46:19

for me, a place that I really love to go. I

46:23

was asked by an amazing

46:26

director if I would like to be involved

46:28

on his feature film and both

46:30

the cameramen had said my

46:33

name when they were asked if they'd like someone to come

46:35

in and they both knew I hadn't been working and

46:38

I went out, it was an eight

46:40

week shoot, so my first time away was eight

46:42

weeks. It was so hard. It

46:44

was... It was pretty brutal if you haven't been

46:46

away for like that for a long time. No, it was

46:48

brutal but I honestly, I needed the cash. I was so

46:50

skint as well and I wanted

46:52

to get back involved and I left filming

46:54

on film and I came back into video

46:56

and I'm like, hey, this is great. I

46:58

can film for ages. Life

47:02

had suddenly become huge around easier in

47:05

terms of the tech. But

47:08

out of that eight weeks, the

47:11

director turned around and he said, wow, so if

47:13

you're the best kept secret in wildlife filmmaking, would

47:15

you come and work on this like full time?

47:18

I wasn't trying to be the best kept

47:21

secret in anything. So

47:23

I got involved in African Cats, which was this

47:26

Disney nature feature film and I followed One Family

47:28

of Cheaters for 18 months and that's when Louis

47:30

came out. But I was able to do small

47:34

chunks around his holidays

47:36

and times with his dad

47:38

and it was

47:41

really hard but I was really glad to get

47:43

back in. I'm so grateful to have got back in

47:45

again. Yeah, and I guess for you, you had

47:47

to sort of work out what shape

47:49

that looked like. It's going to be unconventional

47:52

no matter which way you cut it. And sometimes

47:54

when you do a job like yours,

47:57

it's so much about. I'd

48:01

imagine the temptation would be just to kind of fill

48:03

up the diary and then go, and then you might

48:05

be stuck there going, I'm actually not

48:08

very happy right now. You're

48:10

really well put. Absolutely right. And

48:13

you're, yes,

48:15

you definitely, you think

48:17

I've got to go work, work, work, work, work, but when he was

48:19

little, I obviously didn't work six months a year.

48:22

I worked only when it suited his

48:24

diary. But it was really hard

48:26

because trying to find jobs that worked around his

48:28

diary as well, it was sort of as a being a

48:30

freelancer. The wildlife filmmaking industry

48:32

has changed a lot. But it wasn't

48:35

particularly tolerant of people

48:37

with kids. And I think about, I think

48:40

about all the cameramen that I work with.

48:43

One of the first questions I always get asked in interviews

48:45

is, you know, how does it feel to be a mum?

48:47

I'm like, well, are you asking them? Because they're

48:49

a way longer than I am. You know,

48:52

and, and I know that that's

48:55

not being defensive. That's just like that. Let's

48:59

make everything the same. Yeah, everybody doesn't

49:01

have the culture of it. Because I think

49:04

we don't have the culture treating working dads

49:06

and working moms the same, which feeds into

49:08

all sorts of stuff. So it's

49:10

got to be a conversation that everyone feels they can

49:12

have. Yeah. And everyone can shape it that way. Yeah.

49:14

You know, otherwise, the

49:17

working dads feel like they've got to just put up and

49:19

get out there and do it and not mention it. And

49:21

it's not fair on them either. You know, it's not exactly

49:23

it's a lose lose for everyone. So

49:26

I think it's shifting. It is shifting. But at

49:28

the time, it was, it was

49:31

definitely not easy. And

49:33

being a freelancer and having such

49:37

an unstructured life was

49:39

really hard. I'm really glad I stuck out. I'm

49:41

so glad I stuck out. Well,

49:44

yeah. And I suppose you're seeing it

49:46

evolve. I wonder, I haven't

49:48

really got much of a picture in my head for what

49:50

the more like the outside of work is

49:53

it quite a good quality of life while you're away?

49:55

You like well look faster? Or is it

49:57

quite a success picture with like, that's a very big gear

49:59

on your back. but maybe I've got this really wrong. No,

50:01

no, no, you could be, you can go from,

50:05

during Covid when we were filming, we had

50:07

unparalleled luxury because we were going into places

50:09

where nobody else was. So I was in Zambia

50:12

and Zimbabwe staying in private camps and

50:15

because there were no tourists and they were

50:17

delighted to have us and there was, you

50:19

know, and we were staying in places, but

50:21

you're still working 14 to 16 hours a

50:23

day and you're coming back with, you

50:26

know, you've got a bed as opposed to a camp

50:28

bed, but there have been plenty of times where I've

50:30

slept in a tent much smaller than your dining room

50:32

table and for months,

50:34

you know, or in Antarctica when I

50:37

went the first time for a feature

50:39

film on penguins, I was in a

50:42

small tent for a

50:44

month and with only wet wipes, you

50:47

know, yeah, I mean, so

50:49

I love it when people sit there. It's

50:52

traditionally someone who I think it'd

50:54

be a really great game show where

50:56

people go, so you think you want to be a

50:58

wildlife filmmaker, then you make them do it.

51:01

And because everybody goes, oh, it's such a

51:04

great job, it's brilliant. And it's really, it is,

51:06

but it takes a certain mindset,

51:08

I think, you know, to want to sit in 36 degrees

51:11

for 10 hours in a meter

51:14

by meter hide or 30 meters up

51:16

a tree being bitten to death.

51:18

But then you might see something

51:21

that nobody's ever seen and recorded something

51:24

or being up up in

51:26

the top of the forest in Costa Rica

51:28

and hearing the waves of sound as a

51:30

howler monkey comes across the

51:32

forest as dawn is breaking. It's unlike,

51:35

what a thing to experience, right? Or

51:38

being next to a lion last week, you

51:40

know, a lion just giving it socks

51:42

and the whole roar coming through you,

51:44

like you can feel it in every

51:46

part of your body. It's

51:50

great. Or sunrise in Antarctica where the light is,

51:52

I mean, I could just blither

51:55

on about it for the rest of my life

51:57

because it's so beautiful, the light, I've never seen

51:59

anything like it. it like it's all

52:01

the colors of a of the

52:03

best ice cream sort of those pinks and goldens

52:05

and yellows but on the

52:07

ice reflected on this water and my

52:10

eyes feel like they've gone to heaven. I'm

52:12

I've seen some stuff because I blade-runner. That's

52:14

incredible and I'm picturing that much some of

52:16

this must be you and

52:19

maybe just one or two other people. Yeah.

52:21

To experience it. Yeah. That's such a unique

52:23

thing so many people never get to have

52:25

anything like that even once in their life.

52:28

Yeah. No I'm so so lucky. I and

52:32

sometimes it's really hard sometimes it's

52:34

really uncomfortable but usually what you're seeing is

52:36

so remarkable. I mean I've got to a

52:38

point now where I go actually I'd really rather

52:40

not film in jungles because I am six foot and

52:43

jungles and me don't get on. You

52:45

know I just constantly hit my head and

52:48

you know I was working with the Biaka

52:50

recently in Central African Republic and

52:53

they are they move around the

52:55

forest in a way you know because it's

52:57

their home but it's just like you barely you

53:00

could hear me coming for about eight

53:02

miles it was just hideous but

53:05

then I got to sit up a tree and

53:08

be completely still and quiet and in

53:10

my element and watch elephant forest elephants

53:12

walking below me you know a mum

53:14

taking her her baby

53:16

to the to the clearing and

53:20

immerse myself in that so totally

53:22

and not worry about someone ringing me to try

53:24

and sell me you

53:26

know whatever it might be or oh you've

53:28

missed you're not in a jungle whatsapp or

53:31

anything yeah it's really try not to be yeah

53:33

no I just I'm

53:37

it's just such an extraordinary thing to see all that but

53:39

it makes me think as well that your job

53:42

is so specific to a

53:45

myriad of things there's

53:47

so many things you've got to be good

53:50

at it's so immersive it's not just about

53:53

the tech and the eye

53:55

for filming and all

53:57

that goes into you know being a DOP it's

54:00

also about being uncomplaining,

54:02

being able to be adaptable,

54:04

being fairly unflinching, I'd imagine.

54:08

Because I imagine a lot of times in your

54:11

filming as well, the big animals aren't

54:13

really what you're worried about because they're

54:15

yours safely above. But what about all

54:17

the creepy crawlies? There must

54:19

be billions of insects and... Yeah, I

54:22

mean, usually if I'm filming, I

54:24

film from a platform just off the ground on

54:26

the car so any animal could come in if

54:28

they wanted, but they don't like us. They're scared

54:30

of us. I think that we have to... The

54:34

creepy crawlies are no fun. I

54:37

am constantly amazed that it hasn't

54:39

gone worse. We've

54:42

all had our little run-ins with malaria and

54:44

various bites and stuff, but touch

54:46

wood today, I've been okay. I mean,

54:48

I was in Samburu, which is in

54:50

Northern Kenya last year filming elephants and

54:52

I was

54:54

sitting and I saw

54:56

a thing under my leg and I just sort of

54:58

brushed it off. And then I

55:01

looked at it and it was like, oh damn, and it's a

55:03

scorpion. And by the way, if you have a scorpion, the

55:05

ones with the thin tails

55:07

and the big legs, they're grand. It's the

55:09

fat tail you got to worry about. This

55:12

lad was tiny or less, was absolutely tiny,

55:14

but the fastest tail I've ever seen. And

55:16

I sort of flicked it and got a cup and took it

55:18

outside and, see you later, please don't come back

55:20

in my tent. And I was

55:23

telling the guys and they were like, oh,

55:25

those? Oh yeah, no, that killed a guy

55:27

laugh. So these are not lightweight. Sitting

55:32

there with my QPR, Nick supports

55:34

QPR, bless him. And I always bring

55:36

QPR Goldie socks to wear like just

55:39

really very stylish.

55:42

And it was on my blooming yellow

55:44

QPR Goldie sock. I don't support QPR

55:47

by the way. That's what being does. You

55:52

must be so unphased by so many situations

55:54

you find yourself in. I'm totally

55:56

phased by so many. You should try me when I

55:58

come home. talking with a cup

56:00

and a bit of paper. Yeah, but it's

56:03

not going to try and eat me or bite me.

56:05

It would only bite me if I hurt it. I'm

56:07

much more scared when I'm crossing the road. I come

56:09

back and I can't cross the road. I'm absolutely hideous

56:11

at it. I'm just like,

56:14

oh, chorus, help. I'm pathetic. And

56:16

probably a really stupid question, but your speaking

56:18

voice is very calming. Is that something you've

56:20

taught yourself with being in these sort of

56:23

meditative states with filming? Or are you naturally

56:25

a very cold and vigilant? I'm not calm at all. No,

56:27

I'm not chilled. I really am. I think

56:29

I'm known as a bit of a, I

56:32

hum when I film. When I'm really

56:34

into it, I'm humming

56:38

to myself. But that's

56:40

when I'm just like, if you're looking for two

56:42

hours waiting for that cheetah to do whatever it

56:44

is or that bear or that wolf, it

56:47

sort of helps me concentrate. I

56:51

can be incredibly quiet for a long,

56:53

long time, but then people I've worked

56:55

with say that, yeah, you can tell if I've had a quiet

56:58

day, because I come out and I'm just like, blah,

57:00

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Wow. You're

57:03

keeping it today for very child. Good,

57:05

good. That's great. Come on, that's working.

57:07

So if we talk a little bit

57:09

about big,

57:12

horrific situation we put into with

57:14

the planet, what's your, how

57:17

does it work for someone like you who's so

57:19

ensconced in the

57:22

animal world and the consequences of

57:24

what humans are doing to the planet? And

57:27

where does, I suppose, how do your emotions

57:29

lie with it when you're sort of seeing

57:31

it? You must see evidence of things now.

57:33

I'm desperate, no, we've been seeing it for

57:35

years. And that's the awful thing

57:37

is that we haven't been allowed to say it. So

57:39

it was the first time you think that you had an

57:42

experience where you went from just the

57:45

awe of the natural world to thinking,

57:48

oh, I can actually see with my own

57:50

eyes evidence that things are

57:52

slipping. There's always been little things. So like

57:54

you, the research that goes into these projects,

57:56

the work that people do before we get

57:58

to hit the ground. just phenomenal. You

58:00

know, there's people who sit there for months and months

58:02

setting up these shoots and they look

58:05

into the weather, they look into the behaviour. Everything

58:07

is really planned because they're expensive and you

58:09

want to make them worth their while and because

58:11

they're unpredictable you want to make them as predictable

58:13

as possible. And

58:16

there would be that thing that, you know,

58:18

oh it's raining and everyone says it doesn't usually rain

58:20

at this time of year or I remember

58:22

going to Mongolia even in the 90s and

58:25

we were filming an episode about deserts

58:28

and we were filming Mongolian gazelles and there's

58:30

this big migration of Mongolian gazelles and

58:33

there were 250,000 of them that

58:35

were going on the east of Mongolia

58:37

and it sounds a bit, it

58:39

was actually an amazing trip because it was an all-women,

58:43

all-vegetarian and all left-handed film crew which it

58:45

must have been a little bit like the

58:47

circus that hit town because it was Mongolia

58:50

in the 90s and it was, it was

58:52

such an adventure. But we

58:54

got there and all the gazelles were

58:56

dying from foot and mouth

58:58

because it had rained so heavily and

59:01

so even then in the 90s it was starting

59:03

but I don't think the penny really

59:05

dropped until I was filming polar bears

59:07

in Quebec in Canada for

59:11

our planet and

59:14

we'd gone up and we

59:16

were working with a Canadian camera person who

59:18

had filmed this behaviour that was incredible polar

59:20

bears fishing for arctic char and

59:23

what happens is that they

59:25

sit like brown bears waiting for

59:27

the char to go up the river and it's an incredible thing

59:29

and nobody really filmed it particularly extensively

59:32

and so we went back with underwater

59:34

cameras and drones and iris on long

59:36

lands and we had carted

59:38

all this gear up to the north of Quebec

59:42

and it rained and it rained so heavily that

59:44

the bears didn't ever catch any fish. They just

59:47

sat there and all these bears, you can see

59:49

all these skinny bears and it's really brutal

59:52

and we didn't, we came

59:54

back with not one bit of behaviour, it didn't happen,

59:57

it didn't happen and the one occasion we could get

59:59

through the climate. clouds to actually see

1:00:01

them. They were all just sitting there looking skinny

1:00:03

and it was it's

1:00:06

when you go to Antarctica and there's

1:00:08

mud. It's when you go to Svalbard

1:00:11

and you're having to

1:00:13

wear waterproof down because

1:00:15

it's the only thing that will keep

1:00:17

you warm but it's because before

1:00:19

you would have to just have a warm

1:00:22

coat. Now you've got to have a waterproof

1:00:24

coat because it rains as well as snows.

1:00:26

It's like you really the destruction is

1:00:28

so tangible and

1:00:30

in Kenya right now having

1:00:32

had years of just the

1:00:34

most horrendous drought, the

1:00:37

rain has been

1:00:39

catastrophic because there's no top soil left.

1:00:41

So you just everywhere we go

1:00:43

we see it everywhere we go

1:00:46

and it's sort

1:00:48

of terrifying because

1:00:51

you know we're still being you know I don't

1:00:54

want to be all gloom and doom but it

1:00:56

is pretty gloomy. We have a minute right now

1:00:58

to make a moment. You know we have the

1:01:00

government has a moment. I don't know why it's

1:01:03

just the government. It needs to be a cross-party

1:01:05

thing. It's going to

1:01:07

be outside of politics. I don't understand why it's not

1:01:09

cross-party. I never understood that. It doesn't make any sense.

1:01:11

It shouldn't be trying to score points or it's got

1:01:13

to be just what is the

1:01:15

best thing. But especially because the decisions are so

1:01:17

hard and because nobody's going to vote in those

1:01:20

decisions. Nobody's going to get elected for voting in

1:01:22

those decisions. No, so just take it out of the running

1:01:24

for this. Take it out of the running. Exactly. My brother who's

1:01:26

a horribly clever individual and an archaeologist

1:01:28

and but also a

1:01:33

thinker about such things. He was

1:01:37

like why don't we just have the you know

1:01:40

the Department of the Environment that has nothing to

1:01:42

do with anyone other than the environment and scientists

1:01:44

and data and facts. And that's

1:01:46

it. It doesn't matter what you vote. That's

1:01:49

what you're getting people. Yeah, it's completely obvious

1:01:51

that that should be how it's done. It should. I

1:01:54

think it's really important that in the next election

1:01:56

however you vote you make sure your politicians are

1:01:58

in the right place. It's

1:02:00

absolutely as Chris Peckham was saying

1:02:02

yesterday, is mandatory that in their policies,

1:02:05

they address climate and

1:02:07

fishing and farming and forestry as part of

1:02:09

that, but they have policies, every

1:02:12

single one of them that they're all joined up on.

1:02:14

They can't be shocking. They can't be. It's

1:02:16

now is not the time. Yeah,

1:02:19

it makes me feel this weird emotion

1:02:21

in me where I just feel helpless and

1:02:23

a bit hysterical about it all at once.

1:02:25

I agree. I'm actually really full

1:02:28

of rage. Actually, I'm full

1:02:30

of rage because I just sort of it's this

1:02:32

ticking thing. It's like, why? How can we all

1:02:35

stand around? There was this

1:02:37

woman yesterday. She was amazing speaking in

1:02:39

front of Defra and she's a scientist and

1:02:41

she's worked on the last four state of nature

1:02:45

documents. And she

1:02:47

says that every time they put forward what has

1:02:49

to be done and every time

1:02:51

they've been ignored. And she said, and

1:02:53

she was in tears. She's like, I'm a mother and

1:02:56

I can't sit there and

1:02:58

look my child in the face anymore and do this.

1:03:00

I can't do it. And you... It's

1:03:04

very stark, but it is.

1:03:07

It's really stark, but it is just, it

1:03:10

would be so much easier to do it now but in 10

1:03:12

years time, that's what nobody's really

1:03:14

getting, I think. Or not nobody, that's unfair.

1:03:16

That's really unfair. Christiana

1:03:19

Figueres from Outrage

1:03:21

and Optimism. She's an amazing

1:03:23

person because she says feel the rage and

1:03:25

use it positively. There is still hope

1:03:27

and there is. Yeah, so that's when I think, being

1:03:31

angry is a very necessary component actually.

1:03:34

It's good to know that you're still

1:03:36

angry about things because that's before it

1:03:38

gets through to the next bit. And

1:03:40

actually I was having a chat with my 19 year old the

1:03:43

other day and he said, I

1:03:45

think now's the hardest time to be a teenager. And

1:03:47

I said, really? And he said, yeah,

1:03:49

because it's all about, what's

1:03:52

happening on the planet and what we're

1:03:54

taking over from us. Oh my gosh,

1:03:56

you poor thing. No, it's awful, isn't

1:03:58

it? Yeah. really had

1:04:00

heard him say that before but obviously he's

1:04:02

all around him and he's aware of all

1:04:05

the conversations his generation. Well

1:04:07

I hope he votes. Yes, oh he

1:04:10

definitely will. I hope

1:04:12

he votes. Well when I look at Sammy's

1:04:14

kids in Kenya and Sammy sits

1:04:16

there and he goes I want my

1:04:19

grandchildren you know I want them

1:04:21

to have this place to have because everywhere

1:04:23

you go it's sort of you can

1:04:25

see it all being

1:04:29

eroded. So yeah but

1:04:31

if we can doing what we

1:04:33

do the reason I do what I do and I hope

1:04:36

if it as I said I think earlier if it

1:04:38

moves people if it makes them care give a damn

1:04:41

then we're winning. Yeah. And that's why I'll

1:04:43

carry on doing it and if people just start to treat

1:04:45

it like kind of pretty wallpaper then we give up we

1:04:47

have to think of something else. I

1:04:49

don't think it's got that place I think

1:04:51

that people it really does raise it. I

1:04:54

think it can be a very big talking

1:04:56

point actually. I hope so. And presumably when

1:04:58

you're filming these animals

1:05:00

for you know days

1:05:02

weeks on end you must build a

1:05:04

relationship with individual animals it's not just. I've

1:05:07

got one of them on my my not wedding ring.

1:05:11

It's just charm who's a lioness.

1:05:13

I'll squeak it on. I'll squeak it off later

1:05:16

and it's got some elephants I filmed in an octopus

1:05:18

and magpies it's just like a

1:05:21

absolute like load and menagerie on my

1:05:23

finger. That's lovely.

1:05:25

I love pretty

1:05:28

much all the characters you work with because you

1:05:30

do spend time and you really whether it's you

1:05:32

know in Antarctica with like I don't know 350,000 penguins that

1:05:34

is it's you and 350,000 penguins at knee level

1:05:39

chatting to you all day and if you don't

1:05:41

give a damn about them you're

1:05:44

really in the wrong place. Do you know what I mean? You've got

1:05:46

to give a damn. But some of them Charm

1:05:49

is from Dentisties which was a BBC

1:05:52

show and she

1:05:55

was this lioness who was just full of feist

1:05:57

and fire but she was old and baggy. and

1:05:59

saggy. She wasn't like a particularly pretty. She looked

1:06:02

a bit like she was a bodybuilder from

1:06:05

quite a way back. But she was

1:06:07

such a phenomenal lioness. So you do, of course you

1:06:09

do. And if you don't, I would really wonder why you

1:06:11

didn't. And when you look down at your ring and you

1:06:13

see charm, does it give you a little bit of a,

1:06:16

I think I've got a bit of a lioness in me too. Yes,

1:06:21

maybe. I think I'd like to be

1:06:23

an elephant more than a lioness. Why is that? Elephants

1:06:26

are, oh God, I could talk

1:06:28

for hours about. Are they your favourite? Do you

1:06:30

have a favourite? I think most probably, no, it

1:06:32

depends on the day, wolves. Who

1:06:35

doesn't love wolves? Come on. If the wolves are

1:06:37

great. I know. I had a moment once on

1:06:39

a beach in Alaska where a wolf came and

1:06:41

it was a curious wolf. I think some body

1:06:44

had been feeding this wolf because it was very

1:06:46

much looking in our backpack. But

1:06:48

we were out there. We had a marine

1:06:50

flare for

1:06:53

protection, which is like a big candle. And

1:06:55

a raincoat to flap at things, which is what we ended

1:06:57

up having to do. But this wolf just trotted up

1:06:59

to us. And so we're on foot. And

1:07:02

it came as close as you are to me. So,

1:07:04

and it just looked me in the eye and I'm

1:07:06

on my knees and it was taller than me. And

1:07:08

it had these bright yellow eyes and it looked into

1:07:10

me. And I just remember thinking, it's one of those

1:07:12

days. So it's one of those days where you're never

1:07:14

going to forget this moment when you were eye to

1:07:16

eye with a wolf and it

1:07:19

looks straight back at you. There was

1:07:21

no fear. There was no, yeah. So

1:07:24

you definitely have relations. And my favorite,

1:07:26

so wolves one day, it could be

1:07:28

an Ethiopian wolf another day. Elephants because

1:07:30

they're social and they have

1:07:32

families and they have joy. They play

1:07:35

and they communicate

1:07:38

through frequencies we can't

1:07:40

hear, but I'm absolutely sure we can

1:07:42

feel. So when you're around them, you

1:07:44

hear rumbles, but their rumbles are actually

1:07:46

below our hearing. And they

1:07:49

also, I believe, if

1:07:52

you get loads of complaints about this, sorry about

1:07:54

that. But through their toes, they've got pads on

1:07:56

their feet because they've got about an inch of

1:07:59

soft stuff, why they're really quiet, they creep up

1:08:01

on you, which is hard to believe, but they really

1:08:03

do and they feel

1:08:05

the sand ways through their toes. So

1:08:08

they feel noise and they communicate for

1:08:10

miles. So that's where they know how

1:08:12

to, you know, through history and so

1:08:16

elephants are pretty special. Yeah, that's

1:08:18

incredible. Isn't it? Yeah.

1:08:20

They're so cool. Yeah,

1:08:22

it's making humans look really bad at the

1:08:25

moment on all levels. I

1:08:27

think we're really, yeah, we're excelling

1:08:29

at that. If only we

1:08:31

could be run by elephants. When you're out and about,

1:08:33

like, let's say you're on a crowded

1:08:36

British beach or in a park, do

1:08:38

you think my long lens would

1:08:40

be picking up some extraordinary scenes of

1:08:42

human behaviour right now? Definitely. Oh

1:08:45

my God. Yeah, even on the overground

1:08:47

coming over today. Yeah,

1:08:50

definitely. Oh no, we're ripe. I

1:08:52

mean, you know, thank goodness that's

1:08:54

all covered by some amazing cinematographers

1:08:58

and do you think this is going to be something

1:09:00

you do until you just can't?

1:09:02

Until I'm blind. Yeah, most probably.

1:09:06

I hope so. It's quite physical, but

1:09:08

yeah, I love it. I mean, I hope I've got a

1:09:10

few more years. I'd like to do my

1:09:12

own projects as well and slightly

1:09:15

go off-piste. I like

1:09:18

the way nature comes at us through,

1:09:20

not just through wildlife television, but also

1:09:22

art. I'm a huge fan of going

1:09:25

to see, you know, nature

1:09:27

come with his triptychs or

1:09:29

Richard Moss with his way

1:09:32

of looking at the world through

1:09:34

different coloured

1:09:36

films. Really

1:09:38

brilliant. So yes, I hope

1:09:41

so. And does it feel strange

1:09:43

given that there wasn't really a pathway laid

1:09:45

out for you to do what you do,

1:09:48

that now your name might be the name

1:09:50

that some the next generation

1:09:52

users like their mark of like, I want

1:09:54

to be like, wouldn't that be amazing? I

1:09:56

had someone called me a trailblazer recently and that was, I

1:09:58

think, a really great place to be. Never set out

1:10:00

to be that, but that is. More

1:10:02

a compliment I'm gonna take them for

1:10:04

yeah no that would be awesome. As

1:10:07

I will be plenty of light happening that the people

1:10:09

out there were they got that more card to think

1:10:11

it's a brilliant so. It's been

1:10:13

such a privilege to hear your stories A

1:10:15

kind of think we could do like a

1:10:17

whole other fairies and just the things you

1:10:19

seen the what you've witnessed the I'm I'm

1:10:21

very glad you do what you do in

1:10:23

the keep up the storytelling. Thanks my son

1:10:25

of an answer Had everything from zones are

1:10:27

Suitable and Historic Italia to another tell you

1:10:29

but answer it as a the I just

1:10:31

sit for reference. I don't know much about

1:10:33

that and it's a sudden. They

1:10:35

register on the plane, this is something he

1:10:37

might. Where would you find the been and

1:10:40

I'm in in the Amazon account So improve

1:10:42

in the funded forest. and there's a pain

1:10:44

index which you obviously have hurdles and there's

1:10:46

it's a think those from oh gosh what

1:10:48

is it One to. Nine. Maybe

1:10:51

it's affiliates as ice smit something.

1:10:53

Pain. Index and a be is about a

1:10:55

one. And. A bullet ants. About

1:10:58

nine and I have my first ever

1:11:00

climbing lessons. When I started there was

1:11:02

one of the com a woman just

1:11:04

seen his absolutely brilliant One of my

1:11:06

great friends and everybody thought we were

1:11:09

the same woman because that was so

1:11:11

few women and even those interchangeable just

1:11:13

saw a terrifying. She's really brilliant.

1:11:15

Op's climbing and I am not.

1:11:18

And anyway so I found myself the she broken.

1:11:20

Are ankle and they needed saw another woman's pretends

1:11:22

in of that there was loads women. Doing this

1:11:24

so if I went to the amazon. And

1:11:27

I have my first lesson in the flooded

1:11:29

forest and the answers on going up. I

1:11:32

was saying to Tim. My. Incredible and

1:11:34

structure attempts. There's. There's

1:11:36

an and and it looks like a bullish. And and

1:11:38

he's like so for lox one percent

1:11:40

of posts contests on like a whole

1:11:42

myself up this tech tree and thirty

1:11:44

whatever degrees wearing full reign were because

1:11:46

the semi things that are biting his

1:11:48

and I'm. And. I'm

1:11:50

like no I'm sure Tim I'm sure it's a

1:11:52

bullet and associates find a corner from my and

1:11:54

get along on case. Athena twenty minutes

1:11:57

later on up the top of the three

1:11:59

and which has. away and it's like this is

1:12:01

my I've got up the tree this is great I'm going

1:12:03

to do some filming on this ridiculously small meter

1:12:05

by meter platform and

1:12:07

um look at that and

1:12:09

these guys look at all those bullet ants

1:12:11

I'm like Tim you bastard and it was

1:12:13

just like a load of bullet ants but

1:12:15

apparently really not aggressive okay they're

1:12:18

not going to hurt you unless you hurt them

1:12:20

that's nature kind of for you it's very rare

1:12:22

I think tigers polar bears are

1:12:24

the only ones who really want to eat you everybody else just

1:12:26

like leave us alone we'll be fine okay

1:12:29

what do they look like just so I know sort

1:12:32

of like a big fairy quite nice cute ant they're

1:12:34

not like they don't look like

1:12:37

they're gonna like really hurt great

1:12:39

apparently they look quite like a wood ant according

1:12:41

to Tim because that's what he told me they

1:12:43

were okay they weren't no no I

1:12:45

don't want to I don't really want to encounter

1:12:47

one of them yeah I can ask you to

1:12:49

finish recording to introduce you if you've got a

1:12:51

cat and a pant structure if

1:12:53

you're thinking you could film The Hamsters for

1:12:55

16 hours you won't get any usable footage

1:12:58

but I love

1:13:00

The Hamster I love The Hamster oh

1:13:02

really I'm sorry yeah I know I'm

1:13:05

pretty really keen on hamster oh okay

1:13:07

very sweet oh thank you so much

1:13:09

baby thank you for having me enjoy well that

1:13:11

was great oh

1:13:21

thank you so much to Sophie for talking to

1:13:24

me and it really

1:13:26

made me think is that something I could do would

1:13:28

I have to patience the

1:13:30

focus to go

1:13:34

and spend hours and hours in maybe

1:13:37

slightly uncomfortable conditions just to get

1:13:39

the footage I think you have to be

1:13:41

so passionate don't you have to be just

1:13:43

the thing that you do there's no plan

1:13:45

B and I

1:13:48

don't know I suppose I suppose

1:13:50

there's a lot to be said for having

1:13:52

a job that completely takes you away from

1:13:55

yourself like that that is

1:13:57

pretty special isn't it and

1:14:00

I imagine when you do get to film

1:14:04

or you know you're seeing it happen

1:14:06

first time out and you get just you know view something

1:14:09

exquisite happening in nature that must be pretty pretty

1:14:12

incredible. It must be like really special moments and

1:14:14

then when you get that feeling you must be just sort of

1:14:16

like living for it

1:14:18

next time around. It's really lovely

1:14:20

to look Sophie and uh

1:14:24

yeah to sort of just

1:14:26

have a little little insight into

1:14:28

that and I'm

1:14:30

now speaking to you on Sunday

1:14:32

morning. It

1:14:35

has been a nice weekend actually pretty pretty

1:14:38

quiet. I had one of those days yesterday

1:14:40

it's been very cold as we spoke about

1:14:43

before I spoke to you on cold Friday.

1:14:45

It was a cold Saturday so I had that thing where

1:14:47

I just stayed at home with the little

1:14:50

three kids and we just had they

1:14:52

had pajamas on the whole day and we just like played

1:14:54

with loads of stuff in the playroom we haven't played with

1:14:56

for ages and I did a big play around and I'm

1:14:59

very very happy when I'm pottery like that

1:15:01

and then I made some nice supper. I

1:15:04

did three recipes from a

1:15:06

previous spinning plate podcast guest

1:15:09

Sabrina Gayer and we had

1:15:11

delicious food so

1:15:13

yeah it was a really nice very

1:15:16

wholesome nice quiet Saturday.

1:15:19

Today I've got a couple of things on kids party

1:15:21

so too that kind of stuff but I'm just very

1:15:23

much enjoying the fact that I'm home because the next

1:15:25

few weekends I've got gigs and

1:15:27

things back in which will be lots of

1:15:30

fun but weekends are really special when I get

1:15:32

to be at home for the whole thing I love it. Yeah

1:15:35

so I just continued Sunday in that vein

1:15:37

actually I've got a couple of new podcasts

1:15:39

to record actually this will be my first

1:15:42

ones of the new year this week and

1:15:44

next week so I'm looking

1:15:46

forward to that I need to wake

1:15:48

up that bit of my brain get back

1:15:51

into gear I've got a very good list

1:15:53

of people that I'm also booking in so

1:15:55

I'm feeling good actually feeling feeling

1:15:58

happy And. I.

1:16:02

Think is as any other news and need. Share with

1:16:04

you. And I think

1:16:06

say I'm feeling pretty chill right ankle

1:16:09

and Franco likes to friend either for

1:16:11

a sleep over parts. take the little

1:16:13

taste of complain party. Don't

1:16:16

know what come over me but that's myself into

1:16:18

so i can tape or the kids with me

1:16:20

and like and i'd make his ongoing but and

1:16:22

i'm taking other to and but none like. Of

1:16:25

seems really enthusiastic and most I feel

1:16:27

I bouncing. It's

1:16:30

if you don't see named

1:16:32

am. And then I'm. On

1:16:35

sit on that the rest of the day

1:16:37

injustices unravel. really? Maya.

1:16:40

My. Fourteen he was the last two places, both.

1:16:43

Sides are eater everybody all my dogs

1:16:45

that have had a run and today

1:16:47

it is a result since nice insects

1:16:49

and sneaky bastard a to just be

1:16:51

like meaty and every farmer that anyway

1:16:54

I'm very much rumblings yes I have

1:16:56

the have a lovely wait on interesting

1:16:58

or funny thing songs on the up

1:17:00

this week for our first full band

1:17:02

and coming at the end of the

1:17:04

weights or be really nice and then.

1:17:07

As. Late as is quite as

1:17:09

you buy and sell me on

1:17:11

a Tv and France in Paris

1:17:13

and delete say again supposed to

1:17:15

buy he again next Saturday night

1:17:17

second time in January. I would

1:17:19

not predicted that and. Said

1:17:22

they really lovely. Oh, that's pretty quick.

1:17:24

Some honest. I don't know what to

1:17:26

wear or find something fun. As I say

1:17:28

that sentence, I'm going to very. Cute

1:17:31

new mini sequin.

1:17:33

Cast Time unlike the ads is

1:17:35

blue, white and gold. Pretty

1:17:37

gorgeous. Have a lovely

1:17:39

week! Ah thank you so much to

1:17:42

safely Darlington saying it's you try to

1:17:44

answer producing thought to us and I'm

1:17:46

a for hobbies for outlets as ever

1:17:49

Sir Richard's for editing it. Thank you

1:17:51

darling and many posts as always think

1:17:53

it's easy to any Me and I

1:17:55

was here everything. Is

1:17:58

headed. All.

1:18:11

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