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Before we begin, a reminder to please

0:02

rate and review our show that helps new

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listeners discover us and grow the program.

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On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly. This

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year marks the fiftieth anniversary of Title

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nine, the federal civil rights law that has been

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instrumental to women's sports, and

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since Title nine's enactment, You'd be hard

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pressed to find any person who has done more

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for women's athletics than Billy Jean

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King. In addition to her

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on court accomplishments in tennis, King

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has served as an activist, a businesswoman,

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and an iconic cultural figure. Today

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you'll hear from Billy Jean King after she won

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Sis Muhammad Ali Legacy Award,

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and to offer additional context, we have Caitlin

0:44

Thompson of Racket Magazine here to put

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Billy Jean King's life and achievements in

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perspective. I'm your host, John

0:51

Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated

0:53

and I Heart Radio. This is

0:55

Sports Illustrated Weekly. My

1:05

name is Caitlin Thompson. I am the co founder

1:08

and publisher of Racket, which is a quarterly

1:10

magazine about tennis. I'm also

1:13

a former Division one athlete who

1:15

benefited unbelievably gratefully

1:19

from generations of women coming before

1:21

me, not

1:25

least of whom was the tennis

1:27

legend Billy Jean King. Tennis

1:30

is my last sport I grew up. Basketball's

1:32

my favorite sport, American football,

1:35

volleyball, baseball. My younger

1:37

brother played twelve years of professional baseball.

1:40

And then Susan Williams asked me to play tennis

1:42

in fifth grade, so we went

1:44

to her country club. When I'm going, well,

1:46

I'm never gonna get to play tennis because my dad's

1:48

a firefighter. We don't have that kind of money.

1:55

She was a kid having to

1:57

go into private tennis clubs in southern California,

2:00

you which were very, very

2:02

dissimilar from the public long

2:04

beach tennis courts that she grew up on, with chain

2:06

link fences, which were very similar to the ones

2:08

I played on as a kid. Never been

2:10

a member of a country club, Neither has Billy Jean.

2:14

Playing at the Los Angeles Tennis Club,

2:16

the mecca of tennis in

2:18

southern California, and I'm I

2:20

realized everybody wore white shoes, white clothes,

2:23

you know, play with white balls, and everybody's

2:25

white. And I said, where's everybody

2:27

else? Althae

2:33

and giftson the first black person

2:35

ever to win a major in tennis. She

2:37

was my first shiro. I

2:39

would have never thought that, coming

2:42

from the streets of New York

2:44

playing paddle tennis, that I

2:46

would have the opportunity to shake the

2:49

hand of Queen Elizabeth.

2:52

I actually got to see her live at

2:54

the Los Angeles Tennis Club and

2:56

I looked at her and if you can see it, you

2:58

can be it. And I

3:01

said, that's what number one looks like. I

3:03

wasn't thinking racer. I think I'm thinking she

3:05

looks like number one. She's the best

3:07

in the world. I

3:11

had this epiphany last

3:13

twelve and I think, tea my whole life. If

3:17

I can make it to number

3:19

one, I have to re number one. I'm a girl. Nobody will listen

3:21

if I'm not at least number one. And

3:24

I thought, maybe, just maybe

3:27

I can make the world a better place. Now.

3:31

In the third set, Billy Jeans serves or a match

3:33

point beautiful shop, and

3:35

the Wimbledon title is hers, Mrs

3:37

Billy Jean, King of America, the new

3:40

Queen of Tennis. Well

3:44

we have to sort of remember is Billy Jean was

3:46

not only a star at the time, but

3:48

also somebody who was battling

3:52

the tennis powers that be, Like,

3:54

I don't think they wanted to start their

3:57

own tour, Billy in the original nine and

3:59

Glad Coleman. What they wanted was to have equal

4:03

parody for pay, something approximating

4:05

equal promotion, equal TV time, you

4:07

know, all of these things to be commensurate

4:10

with the men. The women were proving that they could draw

4:12

crowds, that they could be incredibly

4:14

similating. You know, they were putting female tennis

4:16

players on postage stamps, they were

4:18

creating fashion crazes. And so

4:21

after decades of sort of being marginalized,

4:23

seeing women getting gains, and the

4:26

US American Lawn Tennis Association, led

4:28

by Jack Kramer, sought to keep

4:30

their boots on the necks of women, like

4:32

it was not a breakaway league

4:34

for nothing. And I think when you

4:36

look at how often they tried

4:38

to get men to the table, she had

4:42

meeting after meeting, after meeting with Jack Kramer,

4:44

with Stan Smith, who also vehemently

4:46

opposed equality, with Arthur Ash, who vehemently

4:48

opposed equality with the women. Although later

4:51

Arthur and Billy Jean sort of made amends

4:53

and came to an understanding about

4:55

the ties between civil rights and gender rights.

4:58

But every man who was playing tennis,

5:00

from what I can tell, quite threatened by

5:02

the fact that women were playing alongside them and asking

5:05

for money and earning audiences, and they saw

5:07

it as a zero's home game. I mean, that's an attitude that

5:09

persists to this day. Basically,

5:14

moment athletes just were always in the background,

5:16

and basically we

5:18

weren't thought of really that much, and

5:21

so it's hard on all. A lot done just on

5:23

me. But we'd always talk and say, I wish

5:25

we had the media attention

5:28

and so people could hear our

5:30

stories as well, because every human being has a story.

5:33

When you look at what it took

5:35

for Billy to take time out of her touring

5:37

schedule to sit down with brands and

5:40

potential sponsors and sell them on the concept

5:43

creating a league and personally wrangling

5:45

people like Robert Kraft, who went on to own the New

5:47

England Patriots to me one of the most like celebrated

5:50

sports team owners of all timer Genie

5:52

and the Buses in l A who

5:54

started as a world team tennis league holders,

5:56

getting Virginia Slims to great as sponsor

5:58

tournament, getting other women to

6:01

get paid a dollar symbolically to

6:03

leave the tour was a risk, and

6:05

she was willing to put her money where her mouth was

6:07

every single time. I

6:13

was lucky enough to have Racket participated in

6:15

a documentary about World Team Tennis for A twenty

6:18

four this year, and one of the things that I was really struck by

6:20

was one of the men who agreed sort of

6:22

reluctantly to be part of this league, who

6:25

was a self professed, you know, sort

6:27

of male chauvinist, as was Bobby Riggs

6:29

when he faced off against Billy and the battle of

6:31

the sexist, and he said this thing that I

6:33

really made me laugh, which is he

6:35

was basically sort of won over of it by Billy Jean

6:38

King, and he kind of changed his views

6:40

on women. He thought to himself,

6:42

I'll be a different cake when I get it this blender, which

6:45

is a phrase It doesn't really make any sense other than it

6:47

was so powerful to be faced

6:49

with a relentless, essentially

6:52

a serve and volley type of personality

6:54

who was just going to take the fight to you

6:56

and make you submit. Following

7:00

as an exclusive presentation

7:03

of ABC Sports Live

7:05

from the Aspid Dome in Houston, Texas,

7:08

the tennis battle of the sexist

7:10

Billy Jean King versus Bobby

7:12

Ricks and

7:16

you I can get I

7:19

can't know,

7:22

you know you care?

7:26

I think she knew it was important because

7:28

it could galvanize people in a

7:31

cultural way. And it was my moment

7:33

because man, ninety people watching, that's never

7:35

gonna happen again playing a tennis match. And

7:38

it wasn't about tennis. It's about social change,

7:40

at least it was to me. And Title

7:42

nine just been passed here before, so I

7:45

was hoping it would have long lasting

7:47

impact. The cultural case needed

7:50

to be made. And coming into this match against Bobby

7:52

Riggs, who was, you know, sort of a washed up

7:54

gambler, inveterate you

7:56

know, booze hound, smoker,

7:59

gamble her. He was like a real wild personality.

8:02

He stands before I o for exactly what

8:04

he is. A Charlotte, a

8:06

fake, the biggest hustler in the

8:08

contemporary chronicle of sports, now

8:11

ancient, a relic of what he was

8:14

once he could play tennis. Now

8:16

he results to beating women and destroying

8:18

the whole lip movement in the United States by

8:20

himself. The nub Bobby

8:23

Riggs. I'm ready to play, and

8:25

I'm gonna tid a win for all the guys

8:28

around the world who feel as I do, that the mailst

8:30

king and the Mail is supreme. I've said it over and over

8:32

again. I still feel that way girls play and ice

8:34

came a tennis for girl. When they get out

8:36

there on a court with a man, even a

8:38

tired old man, they're going to be in

8:40

big couple. You

8:46

know. A lot of folks say, like, well, you know he was maybe

8:48

two decades old of the Billy Jing King. Was this even a fair

8:50

match? For context? He had beaten Margaret

8:53

Court, the other sort of luminary

8:55

of that era. Bobby Riggs beat her

8:57

handily in what it became known as the Mother's

8:59

Day Massacre. She was somebody

9:01

who didn't believe in gender parody. She

9:04

was somebody who didn't believe in racial parody.

9:06

She famously supported apartheid in South Africa.

9:09

She is now a anti gay

9:11

preacher who supports commercial therapy and perth.

9:13

You know, she's like a real gem. But I

9:15

don't think she at the time understood

9:17

that this wasn't just a way to get paid to play an

9:19

exhibition match, but in fact, when you put

9:21

yourself up against a male athlete,

9:24

You're really competing for all women. Women's

9:26

suffrage was less than fifty years old

9:28

when Rob Wade hadn't yet been

9:31

law. And you know, now in a context

9:33

in which women's like authority over their own bodies

9:35

is stripped away from us, like, it is so

9:37

hard to forget how much this country hates women.

9:40

Billy saw in that moment,

9:43

and how she felt like

9:45

she was going to be playing for not

9:48

just herself and her own glory and probably the

9:50

glory of her Nissan Tennis League, but

9:52

also every single woman who was being

9:55

slapped on the ass as a secretary

9:57

and kept out of a boardroom and the things

9:59

that we know persist to this day.

10:01

And then the fact that she went out and played

10:04

against Bobby Riggs and beat him in the

10:06

best of five in the Battle of the Sexes. I

10:08

think for many women became like a rallying

10:11

cry, this is gonna be the real match.

10:13

This was really all about. Because Bobby

10:15

challenged me in the first place. I didn't want to start

10:18

an issue. But now that Margaret went ahead and opened

10:20

the door did such a miserable job.

10:23

You know, I think that I can beat

10:26

Bobby. I won't

10:28

be able to strike you out. I'm not marred. I

10:30

love pressure. You can try to thank me all you want.

10:33

And I think she went into this match knowing what was on the

10:35

line, knowing she would have to not only beat

10:37

Bobby Riggs, but beat him

10:39

vehemently, allow him

10:41

to spout his male chowbin, his nonsense about

10:43

how women deserve to be in the kitchen, and you

10:46

know, no little girl is going to come up and show

10:48

him what's what in his own court, but also

10:51

play along with it and use every

10:53

opportunity to pugilistically make the case

10:55

that this was this cultural moment,

10:58

the winner of the Battle of the sex it Billy

11:01

Jean six

11:04

six three six three.

11:07

I haven't gone through a day yet that someone hasn't brought

11:09

it up, not one day. The

11:12

women. What really happened right

11:14

after, particularly, is

11:16

they got very excited.

11:19

They said they finally have more self

11:22

confidence. For the first time, they

11:24

had the courage to speak up, for the first time,

11:27

they asked for a raise. Billy has always

11:29

understood these cultural moments as

11:32

being lightning rods for ways

11:34

to push forward. And I think for that reason,

11:36

you know, making a film, however good or

11:38

bad, out of it, was a logical

11:41

thing for her to sign onto and

11:43

be excited about. Are you talking, Abobby

11:46

more nonsense? He spelled. The worst going to be when

11:48

you lose. I'm the ladies

11:50

number one, I'm the champ. Why would

11:53

I lose? Okausnosaurs can't play

11:55

tennis. She's

11:58

very aware of how these stories

12:00

tend to get buried or rewritten with

12:02

each successive generation. The

12:04

victors get to write the history, and if

12:07

you're not part of that, you're going to get relegated

12:09

to the dustband rule

12:16

cold to

12:20

find her a

12:26

lot of how she transcends sports,

12:29

activism, culture, our imagination.

12:31

Being on stage with you know Elton John who

12:33

wrote Philadelphia Freedoms, which became a

12:35

gay anthem for her to

12:37

celebrate her World team Tennis League team called

12:39

the Philadelphia Freedoms.

12:56

You know, she just is at the center of gravity and

12:58

a lot of these moments because she can't help herself.

13:01

She just can't not be that person. I think, uh

13:03

and I you know, I think it's for everyone's betterment. One

13:11

thing that Billy has always understood is

13:13

the power of not only

13:15

celebrity and culture, but also the

13:18

power of money.

13:25

When she was founding a league,

13:27

when she was getting her own

13:29

sponsors. Virginia Slims notably

13:31

came in as the first sponsor of the w t

13:33

A Tour. It wasn't until they

13:35

could pay prize money that

13:38

she felt like it was a real

13:40

thing that was happening, and not just sort of charity honorari

13:43

and prize money, but prize money that's somewhat approximated

13:45

the men's equal prize money

13:47

at the US Open. And I

13:50

would have got the sponsor for that to make up the difference.

13:53

And then I went and talked to the tournament and talked to Billy

13:55

Tolbert, the tournament director. Again, by

13:57

the way, we've got them, need

14:00

to make the difference. You don't have to go out and get one

14:02

more time with sponsorship. We

14:04

will give it to you. He went, what now,

14:06

I don't think that would have happened or I would have had

14:08

the understanding or the courage to go

14:10

do that, to ask if I had learned.

14:13

Because of my ownership and being in business

14:15

in the tennis business at the time, I

14:17

think it made me understand the

14:19

other side. As soon

14:21

as she was able to establish the Women's Sentence

14:24

Association and make sure it was sort of financially

14:26

sustainable. She turned her attention to soccer

14:28

and to basketball, and to women's softball and all

14:30

these other sports because she knew that the power

14:32

sort of to negotiate was really where

14:34

they were going to be able to make permanent,

14:37

lasting change and honestly like create permanent

14:39

respect in the in the I think

14:41

in the larger sort of cultural context,

14:45

athletes just want more. I want more money,

14:47

I want more of this. I want better hotels, I want

14:49

this, I want better food. I want, I want, I want,

14:51

I want. And then I asked him, do you know about

14:53

the business. I

14:56

don't know. I

14:58

think if you want to negotiate that you need

15:00

to know all sides, not just your

15:03

side. It

15:06

ties to Billy Jean

15:09

King and Serena Williams, who has

15:11

the most grand slams of any player

15:13

male or woman, who was arguably the most dominant

15:15

player certainly of her era. She

15:18

doesn't happen without Venus Williams. And

15:21

Venus Williams is actually the tie between

15:23

Billy and Serena

15:26

because Venus not only one

15:29

a handful of grand slams herself and broke

15:31

through so that Serena could be not

15:34

totally burdened with being an activist. Really,

15:37

Venus was the activist between the two sisters,

15:39

and she took the playbook right out of Billy Jeans

15:41

maneuvers. I arrived to the Grand

15:43

Slams and Tennis at the age of sixteen

15:46

years old, found it I wasn't being paid equal and

15:48

that's a hard blow for young women and I don't want

15:50

other young women to go through this. She

15:53

went to Wimbledon, which at the time

15:56

was not giving when men and women equal

15:58

pay. She wrote an op for The

16:00

Times of London about why denying

16:02

her equal pay was the wrong

16:05

thing to do. And then also she went behind

16:07

the scenes at the All England Lawn and Tennis Club and

16:10

made a case to the board filled with, as

16:12

you might guess, old white men, and

16:15

then went out the next day and beat

16:17

Lindsey Davenport in what is considered one of

16:19

the greatest final matches men or

16:21

women of all time. So many people

16:23

like this young lady of the Venus

16:26

Williards has bounched back into

16:28

the room as socle but the

16:31

Wimbledon talk to it. So

16:34

I think Venus really understood from

16:36

Billy because they talked in because Billy

16:38

was very, very keen to get them on board

16:40

and get them situated in the

16:42

tennis tour, because she knew that her star

16:44

was fading and she would have to find people

16:47

to uphold not only her legacy but the

16:49

legacy of women's sports and push it

16:51

forward as they have done. And I think with

16:54

Billy giving Venus the playbook to

16:56

be an activist, to go into those rooms to write the

16:58

op eds, then you have Serena who doesn't

17:00

have the pressure on

17:03

her to be the first in the space. She's doing

17:05

it with her sister. She can just honestly

17:07

play tennis part of Billy's

17:10

legacy. And I think Serena and Venus

17:12

for sure understand that these

17:15

women who came before them, much like Title

17:17

nine did for all these generations of women who

17:19

came before me, who I meet in boardrooms,

17:21

who I see, you know, giving speeches on

17:23

the floors of Congress, like

17:26

these are people who

17:29

literally walked so that we could run. And

17:31

I think when you look at what a

17:33

seismic figure like Billy did

17:35

with her vision and then continues to do by backing

17:38

it up and training the next generation

17:40

of folks, then it's sort of clear where

17:43

folks can pick up the mantle and you know, and

17:45

essentially keep going. Tennis

17:48

is a catalyst. It was

17:50

my way, it was my way of reaching others and

17:52

and I'd always try to get the other players that

17:54

think like this, obviously, because they all come

17:56

from different towns, different villages, different countries,

18:00

and one thing about tennis were really international

18:03

and this is an opportunity

18:05

for them to make their place, whatever

18:07

they decided to do, to make it better, to

18:09

improve it, you know, because we're one of the lucky ones.

18:12

Athletes are one of the lucky ones. It's

18:14

a reason to me, it's a responsibility.

18:17

Tennis showed that women from

18:19

any country in the world, from any

18:21

background in the world can compete

18:24

on equal footing with men. That's still not true

18:26

in every other sport, not quite.

18:29

Tennis is still the highest paying

18:32

for women, and it's the one because

18:34

of Title nine the women are able to access.

18:37

If not the most, then then certainly in

18:39

terms of popularity. Tennis doesn't

18:41

need to be alone in that. I think, if anything,

18:43

I would love to see that every single sport.

18:46

But because this sport, like

18:48

I said, it's got its problems, and the all white

18:50

tennis clubs and the you

18:52

know, lack of sponsorship or quality.

18:55

You know, there's no domestic violence policy. However,

18:57

on the plus side, I think it has been

19:00

inspiring for generations of women.

19:02

If you look at professional soccer, it's existed for

19:04

less than this fan of my lifetime. The same is true

19:07

for literally every other women's league.

19:09

The w n b A didn't exist before I was

19:11

born. But you know what, women were playing

19:13

tennis professionally, winning and hoisting cups

19:15

over their head when before my parents

19:17

were born, right, And so a lot of this has to do

19:19

with generations and decades of visibility

19:22

and decades of progress. You know, he did couldn't get

19:24

a credit card in nineteen seventy three. Title

19:27

lie has just been passed in V two and

19:29

everybody thinks it was about sports. Sports

19:31

is not even mentioned in title nine. Uh.

19:33

I think it talks about activity or something. We

19:35

got lucky that that was added, I

19:37

think. And then you know, um,

19:40

I Senator birched By as one of my heroes,

19:42

and he and I talked about

19:44

this, but he had no idea that the effect it was gonna

19:47

have and what it did. Though, it's got rid of the quotas

19:50

um for schools for women,

19:53

like if you want to go to Harvard to get your medical

19:55

degree. They only allowed five per cent in

19:58

a classroom before nineteen seventy two.

20:01

And you'll notice in the seventies early seventies

20:04

a lot of schools became co ed because

20:06

this is about federal money having

20:08

to be used equally at

20:11

colleges, high schools,

20:13

private or public. If you get any federal

20:15

funds, you had to for

20:18

the first time give

20:20

it equally to boys and girls. And then you'll see all

20:22

these schools if you follow the money and always happens.

20:28

Title nine is is typically put into a

20:31

sports contact. Specifically. You know a

20:33

lot of collegiate athletes, obviously

20:35

because they are seen as the biggest beneficiaries

20:37

of Title nine. I was one of them. I got a

20:40

tennis scholarship to play at the University

20:42

of Missouri, where I studied

20:45

magazine journalism. I got

20:47

a free education that I probably

20:49

would not have otherwise been able to afford. But

20:52

I think a lot of people don't really understand about Title

20:54

nine, especially who haven't spent a lot of time around

20:56

female athletes and women in

20:58

positions of power. Is the amount of

21:01

women in leadership roles

21:04

that have benefited from this law

21:06

and it is a direct result

21:09

of their being basically them being invested

21:11

in by American society. If

21:13

you look at fortune companies, if you look

21:15

at the you know US

21:17

Congress, like Chris and Jilbrand who played college

21:20

sports, or Uzio Duba, who you know, wins

21:22

Emmys. But also it was a college track athlete paid

21:24

for by Title nine at Boston College. When women,

21:26

when whoever is not getting a fair

21:28

deal in this case, women

21:30

particularly women of color and

21:33

live with disability, when they

21:35

get the opportunity boom,

21:37

they take advantage of it. And that's why you have this

21:40

flood through the years because it took

21:42

a long time for Title line to start kicking in.

21:44

It didn't kick in in the fall of seventy two,

21:47

even those passed June nineteen

21:49

seventy two. It really

21:51

and it's still not even yet. So it's

21:54

we have a long way to go still, but at

21:57

least you have to get things started. I

22:00

thought this year would be sort of like a celebratory year,

22:02

to be like, hey, Title nine, like you

22:04

know, it's it's fifty years

22:06

old, and look how far we've come. And you know, all these women

22:08

that won the Olympic gold medal in and

22:11

beyond and all these women's sports leagues that are now grappling

22:13

with and in some cases achieving parody

22:16

with their male counterparts, like the U S women's

22:18

national soccer team for example, hockey,

22:21

basketball, certainly tennis. All

22:23

of these gender pay issues are resonant

22:26

throughout sports. It all goes back to that

22:28

generation of women who was raised

22:31

and fully funded by Title nine. Like, it's

22:33

not an accident. This is a natural conclusion

22:35

of what happens if you empower women and then give them

22:38

something close to equal footing. It's not quite equal,

22:40

but something close to equal footing. And now we're having

22:42

this conversation instead of like a celebratory town

22:45

like, oh, we've rolled back and made laws

22:47

specifically that violate the sanctity of women's

22:49

ability to choose for themselves what happens with their bodies.

22:51

And so it's sort of for me underscores how important

22:54

it is codify protections for women

22:56

and protect them at all costs,

22:59

because otherwise we have a society that's seemingly

23:01

pretty intent on on rolling back

23:04

the rights of women to exist equally in society

23:06

at every turn. Tennis

23:12

has sort of been on the right side of history more than

23:14

It hasn't forces inherently political.

23:17

Who we let play, who gets onto the field,

23:19

who we celebrate, who we pay all

23:21

matters. It's all choices. It's not an accident.

23:23

And so I look back at these decades

23:26

of something approximating

23:28

equality with Title nine, and I think to myself,

23:30

like, Wow, they had to push so

23:32

hard for this. We owe it to them to push

23:35

further and not let it backslide. Billy

23:39

Jane King is a Tennis Hall of Famer and the latest

23:41

recipient of s I S. Muhammad

23:43

Ali Legacy Award. Pay

23:46

Attention. And this is the one thing

23:48

that Muhammad Ali Ali and I used to talk

23:50

about, pay attention. You

23:52

never know how another person is going to touch your life, how

23:55

you're going to touch their life.

24:00

Caitlin Thompson is the publisher and co founder of Racket

24:03

magazine. Caitlin also recently

24:05

reviewed Billy Jean King's autobiography

24:07

All In for The New York Times. Will

24:10

post a link to that in our show notes. Thanks

24:13

for listening, and a reminder to please rate and review

24:15

our show that helps people find us. Sports

24:19

Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated

24:21

and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts,

24:24

from My Heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio

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24:30

for more of Sports Illustrated's best stories and podcasts,

24:34

visit SI dot com.

24:36

This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

24:38

by Jessica Yarmoski, Jordan Rizzieri,

24:40

and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound

24:42

engineer. Our senior producers

24:45

are Dan Bloom and Harry swart Out. Our

24:47

executive producers are Scott Brody and me John

24:50

Gonzalez. Our theme song

24:52

is by Nolan Schneider, and if

24:54

you've stuck around this long, we leave you with this.

25:00

I'm really just a backboard for you to hit against.

25:03

I like that metaphor.