0:00

It's Thursday, April 25th, and all the

0:02

president's men have been indicted again. We

0:05

start here. Arizona's

0:09

Attorney General files criminal charges

0:11

against key Trump aides. Every

0:14

action by Donald Trump and his

0:16

allies has not gone unnoticed. A

0:18

2020 election continues to reverberate. We'll

0:20

break it all down. Protest

0:25

encampments have spread nationwide, and so have

0:27

the responses from police. There is concern

0:29

that they are going to stay on

0:32

campuses for the long haul. We'll take

0:34

you to the latest campus where arrests

0:36

have been made, and President Biden signs

0:38

a bill that sets the clock

0:40

tick-tocking. So basically what we're looking

0:42

at is a year for this for sale

0:44

to go through. So what happens

0:46

next? The business world is strolling

0:48

furiously to find out. From

0:52

ABC News, this is Start Here. I'm

0:55

Brad Milkey. Presidents

1:03

have to be given total immunity.

1:05

They have to be allowed to

1:07

do their job. Later today, the Supreme

1:09

Court will hear a case about former

1:11

President Donald Trump and whether he can

1:14

be charged with any crime for anything

1:16

he did while in office. Specifically, this

1:18

involves the case around January 6th and

1:20

whether Trump tried to illegally subvert the

1:22

2020 presidential election. And part of the

1:24

government's case there is that Trump and

1:26

his top allies tried to submit slates

1:28

of so-called fake electors. These are

1:30

the people who, through the Electoral

1:32

College, technically elect the president on

1:34

behalf of their state. Even

1:37

though Biden won these states fair and square,

1:39

there was this push to have Republican lawmakers

1:41

just say, eh, the vote was

1:43

illegitimate. These are the people we'd like to

1:45

do the choosing instead. That

1:47

doesn't just have the potential to be a federal crime. It

1:49

could be a state crime too. And

1:51

last night, Arizona officials announced indictments

1:54

against those so-called fake electors and

1:56

in a twist, they also indicted

1:58

several people close To the former. President

2:00

has Reagan A B C don't seem

2:02

to T who leads are investigations coverage

2:04

does who has been charged here. So

2:07

bread. This is really interesting. This is

2:09

eleven sake, all actors, some of which

2:11

you're obviously held a major roles in

2:13

the Republican party in Arizona state politics

2:15

that have been indicted, but Brad's it

2:18

doesn't stop there. Based on our teams

2:20

reading of this in Diamond, some of

2:22

which is redacted, it does appear that

2:24

many close aides to Donald Trump current

2:26

and former were also indicted. and it's

2:29

a who's who. Brags, it includes Rudy

2:31

Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Bourse Epstein who

2:33

still works for Donald Trump even

2:35

were seen above one of his

2:37

lawyers that was involved in some

2:39

of the investigations that have gone

2:41

on. It's just a remarkable reminder

2:43

that you know we talk about

2:45

all the cases that have really

2:47

haunted Donald Trump way you talk

2:49

about the Da's case, the Special

2:51

Counsel cases obviously Fulton County, Georgia

2:53

a big ones that involve Donald

2:55

from Rudy and Meadows but Arizona

2:57

was another states that Donald Trump

2:59

and his allies were trying to

3:01

overturn the election There and now

3:03

the seat attorney General has said

3:05

indictment and here we are A

3:07

to these names like you said

3:09

whose names very close to Donald

3:11

Trump's What about Trump himself? So

3:13

Trump is not indicted your big

3:15

difference from and from the Georgia

3:17

case Brad. He's an unindicted coconspirators

3:19

so it doesn't mention Donald from

3:21

by name. But based on are

3:23

reading of the indictment it appears

3:25

Donald Trump is unindicted coconspirators number

3:27

one. and it basically means Donald

3:29

Trump. Was a parts of the actions

3:32

that activities some of which obviously illegal

3:34

based on the and turning Generals interpretation

3:36

of actions and those those individuals including

3:39

to Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows were

3:41

indicted for their actions you can you

3:43

tell me about like what the alleged

3:46

scheme was here because they couldn't just

3:48

and died of the Arizona officials michigan

3:50

for examples doing something similar with his

3:53

stuff to those people why did this

3:55

go further to this when further because

3:57

remember so much of this was visible

4:00

to as rightly so Rudy Giuliani on

4:02

the ground with some of his top

4:04

allies in aid lobbying officials would say

4:06

there were five million illegal. Aliens

4:09

in. Arizona.

4:13

Is of. The.

4:16

On for during. That. Of

4:18

sumer two thousand and didn't vote. We

4:20

obviously know based on even what we've

4:22

seen in Georgia of phone calls The

4:25

Mark Meadows, another top aides Donald Trump

4:27

were making like to see if there's

4:29

a way that we could. Resolve.

4:31

The issue comes out well for everyone,

4:33

all republicans. I think we all have

4:36

the same goal. And here's the point.

4:38

Think about Rusty Bowers, right? the former

4:40

Speaker of the Arizona House. He said

4:42

that they did have proof and I

4:44

asked him to have names. For.

4:46

Example of two hundred thousand

4:48

illegal immigrants some large number.

4:51

He testified before the House

4:53

January Six committee indicating the

4:55

phone calls and lobbying and

4:57

the pressure he was under

4:59

by Donald Trump and his

5:01

close aide. I said, you

5:03

have their names. Yes,

5:06

Will. You give them to me.

5:08

Yes. The President

5:10

interrupted and said give a man

5:12

what a nice Rudy Every action

5:14

by Donald Trump and his allies

5:16

has not gone unnoticed and didn't

5:19

go unnoticed by law enforcement in

5:21

these various states. You talk about

5:23

Michigan we now obviously no Georgia

5:25

Now add Arizona to the less.

5:27

Brad. It's

5:29

also just is crystal clear

5:32

Visualizations based on and this

5:34

indictment from the Arizona State

5:36

Attorney General states there was

5:38

a real effort Documents. Paperwork,

5:40

Lobbying that was done to really

5:42

build this alternate fleet of electors

5:45

to save outright That in these

5:47

people's opinion, Joe Biden did not.

5:49

Legitimately when the Twenty Twenty race

5:51

in their eyes it was Donald

5:54

Trump and clearly they would do

5:56

anything possible even law even allegedly

5:58

committed a crime. Brad to make that

6:01

happen right as we record this. No response yet

6:03

from Trump or any of these but the I

6:05

mean they will be defendants as they were arraigned

6:07

after these indictments. A huge news you're breaking overnight.

6:09

Thank you so much. Don't thank you bread. Or

6:14

it next up on start here these college protests

6:17

are getting intense or back in a bit. Hey,

6:22

I may end in itself a New York

6:24

Times bestselling author. And I'm Sabrina. Pullback the

6:27

morning. Television producer for Months of

6:29

Toddlers and best. Friend is

6:31

of twenty years and we both

6:33

love to talk about being pearls

6:36

yeah but also supports the we're

6:38

combining option instead of talking a

6:40

celebrity writers and scholar of Tv

6:43

and movie cinema. really about what

6:45

we all to learn from the

6:47

fictional mom loved from A D

6:49

C Audio and Good Morning America.

6:52

Hop Culture Mans is out now wherever.

6:54

You. Need.

6:59

Is you see? The

7:05

latest effort into the most

7:07

move here. Forever

7:12

you get your podcast. Would

7:18

you be successful? Protests most? How

7:20

few things one the passionate to

7:22

their non violent and free to

7:24

have specific demands, pressuring leaders to

7:27

make real concessions. Last week, students

7:29

at Columbia University in New York

7:31

started setting up tents on campus.

7:33

These were non violent protesters, but

7:35

they were passionate. They

7:40

were nearly impossible to avoid. it will

7:42

be soon as we're asking for was

7:44

simple: they wanted their skull to divest

7:46

itself on any financial relationships with a

7:48

state of Israel within twenty four hours.

7:50

See this having enough to the point

7:52

where other protesters from around the city

7:55

started joining them in some cases making

7:57

the seen more chaotic. More a know

7:59

that especially. You wish to are

8:01

now being screened any visible support for

8:03

Israel those scenes from Columbia that galvanize

8:05

more student groups across the country. We've

8:07

seen encampments spring up on other campuses

8:09

and yesterday the seems to explode when

8:11

you go to A B C Teeth

8:13

National Course. When I met that been

8:15

was on the campus of us. see

8:17

in Los Angeles right now Mets be

8:19

seems are literally coast to coast at

8:21

this point. What are you seeing? They

8:23

are bred. We've seen protests. Virtually.

8:25

Coast to coast. Obviously you just

8:27

mentioned New York, but there's also

8:30

N Y U notches Columbia's arm.

8:32

There's Harvard and Brown. There's been

8:34

protests at the University of Texas

8:36

Austin. Those protestors were forcefully removed

8:39

as well by our campus security

8:41

and police. Twenty.

8:44

People arrested there yesterday and we

8:47

also had people protesting in Humboldt

8:49

County. it it's a University California

8:51

Humboldt way up in the northern

8:53

wells of California. Arrests made their

8:55

as well and of course here

8:57

at us see. One

9:00

person was sort of detained. And

9:05

then the crowd sort of began rushing

9:07

campus security. it was not violent and

9:09

the protesters by large across the country

9:11

asking for the same thing. For

9:19

their universities to divest from anything related

9:21

to Israel or companies that make a

9:23

profit off of the war or taking

9:26

place in Gaza right now. So it's

9:28

their non violent. I mean why the

9:30

police response clearly disease schools and local

9:33

authorities have deemed a lot of these

9:35

out of hand. There was an issue

9:37

with his protesters setting up tents are

9:40

there is concerned that they are going

9:42

to stay on campuses for the long

9:44

haul. There's also concerned that there have

9:47

been activists to intermingled with. The students

9:49

and faculty and they're not allowed

9:51

to be on campus. Here at

9:53

you with see we've been told

9:55

about fifty percent of the activists

9:57

that we're seeing are protesting. Certainly,

9:59

Yes, Today and possibly again today

10:01

are people who are not affiliated with

10:03

the university and their security concerns about

10:06

that. Also, Commencement is not far away

10:08

and campus security told me they're just

10:10

not going to allow that to happen.

10:12

They do not. What? People sleeping here,

10:15

protesting, chatting? Yes, sleeping on campus? Intense

10:17

in the Quad? Absolutely not. Or in

10:19

the schools seem uncomfortable with these protests,

10:21

right? Because while students here in there

10:23

have described being punched or soldered, a

10:26

lot of the incidents that we've heard

10:28

about involved is just threatening. Violence

10:30

speech like a Columbia we saw someone

10:32

holding up a sign basically suggesting Hamas

10:34

is military wing target some of the

10:36

pro Israel demonstrators there were allegedly chance

10:38

of like we are Hamas and people

10:40

saying we don't want to hear Zionist

10:42

and then pro Palestinian demonstrators talk about

10:44

how you can't sew up to one

10:46

of these things you can't protests without

10:48

being worried about being suspended or threatened

10:50

or dost so that people never hire

10:52

you. But I mean speeches to the

10:55

difference of how to schools decide when

10:57

and how to involve the police. It

10:59

really depends. Which. School and how

11:01

significant the protests are here at you with

11:03

seats A has been campus security that it's

11:05

handling it's at the University of Texas Austin

11:08

duties. Ah, it was state police that the

11:10

State University's school and that's a threat Said:

11:12

If these campus protests get out of hand

11:14

if the protesters try to stay too long,

11:17

if they try to really embed themselves on

11:19

campus with tens, or if they look like

11:21

they're trying to stay for any long period

11:24

of time, then the major threat is that

11:26

they would bring in are not campus security

11:28

but state police or local authorities. it's

11:30

interesting cause i feel like a lot of moderates

11:32

are like bees or concerning images because on one

11:34

hand you want to celebrate free speech on college

11:37

campuses is a long proud tradition of that in

11:39

this country on the other hand like the scenes

11:41

are so intense that you can imagine how scary

11:43

and disruptive it is just i know like today

11:45

as you s final day of classes they're jewish

11:47

students afraid to attend class so a lot of

11:49

moderates are kind like is but then on the

11:51

far left you get a lot of protesters who

11:53

enjoying the disability on the right now you're seeing

11:55

like gov greg abbott and texas english all these

11:58

protesters should go to jail you seeing politics show

12:00

up at events. It sounds like it is

12:02

now becoming a galvanizing force on the right

12:04

as well. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson

12:06

met with students at Columbia. They placed a

12:08

target on the backs of Jewish students in

12:10

the United States and here on this campus.

12:12

Many of them telling him that these protests

12:14

do make them feel threatened on campus. The

12:16

majority of my friends, especially Jewish friends, feel

12:19

a sense of insecurity at this time.

12:22

In addition to that, Mike Johnson's saying that, hey,

12:24

he's going to talk to President Biden about this.

12:26

He's going to bring it to the president. He's

12:28

going to say that someone's got to stop these

12:31

protests across the country. As Speaker

12:33

of the House, I am committing today that

12:35

the Congress will not be silent as

12:37

Jewish students are expected to run for their

12:39

lives and stay home from their classes hiding

12:42

in fear. He

12:44

said he's going to even urge

12:46

the president to call in the

12:48

National Guard if necessary and appropriate.

12:50

Of course, there is a long

12:52

and very sordid history of the

12:54

National Guard interfering with protests, anti-war

12:56

protests in this country. You remember

12:58

the Kent State massacre back in

13:01

1967, four students murdered on

13:03

the lawn there at Kent State by

13:05

National Guardsmen. That caused

13:07

a massive uproar in the country.

13:09

So unclear that the president is going

13:11

to want to go back to that

13:13

again. But obviously, this is something that is

13:15

in the zeitgeist in America and that people are

13:17

thinking about on the left and, of course,

13:19

on the right side of the aisle as

13:22

well. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you can see how

13:24

these encampments have kind of upended the playbook

13:26

and now the encampments are becoming

13:28

part of a playbook in themselves. Nat Gutmann, they're

13:30

on the campus of USC. Thank you so much. Thanks,

13:32

Brad. Yesterday,

13:37

President Biden signed into law a package

13:39

of foreign aid bills. Most notably, we're

13:41

sending $60 billion in aid

13:44

to Ukraine, which Biden said would

13:46

start moving within hours. In the

13:48

next few hours, literally the few

13:50

hours, we're going to begin sending

13:52

in equipment to Ukraine for

13:55

air defense munitions, for artillery, for

13:57

rocket systems and armored vehicles. originated

14:00

in the House of Representatives. Another version had

14:02

actually been floating around in the Senate, but

14:04

this was the one that was approved in

14:06

both chambers. And one of the big differences

14:08

here was tucked inside this House bill. It's

14:11

a measure that could potentially ban TikTok.

14:13

Yeah, the app with the Chinese parent

14:15

company, the app that reportedly has 170

14:17

billion American users. That's

14:20

half the population. Well, as of today,

14:22

the clock is ticking on a forced

14:24

sale of TikTok. So what happens now?

14:27

ABC's Elizabeth Scholzy's been covering all this. She

14:29

covers politics and economics. So Elizabeth, I

14:32

feel like this went from theory to reality very

14:34

quickly. Could this app actually go

14:36

away? What is in this measure? Very quickly, Brad.

14:39

And, you know, we've been talking so much

14:41

about this possibility of, could TikTok actually be

14:43

banned? It's been back and forth for

14:45

years. But the fact is, we're

14:48

closer to that becoming a reality now than

14:51

we have ever been. But it's still

14:53

far away. The yeas are 79. The

14:56

nays are 18. This provision

14:58

in the law that was signed by President Biden basically

15:01

gives TikTok nine months to

15:04

force a sale from its Chinese

15:06

owner. Remember, TikTok is owned by

15:08

ByteDance, which is a company based

15:10

in China. There have been

15:12

concerns from lawmakers, and this

15:14

escalated pretty quickly in the past couple of months,

15:17

that because TikTok's owned by a Chinese company,

15:20

the Chinese government can get access

15:22

to Americans' data. It can manipulate

15:24

Americans' opinions, possibly spread

15:27

misinformation, propaganda, influence elections,

15:29

or have an

15:32

undue influence on so many,

15:34

as you say, 170 million users. This

15:36

app is a spy balloon in Americans'

15:39

phones. It is a

15:41

modern-day Trojan horse of the CCP

15:44

used to surveil and exploit

15:46

America's personal information. TikTok

15:49

is a gun aimed at Americans'

15:51

heads. Basically, what the

15:53

U.S. government in this law now

15:55

is saying is that TikTok needs

15:57

to divest from that Chinese company.

16:00

It has nine months to do that and then

16:02

President Biden could extend that for another 90 days.

16:04

So basically what we're looking at is a

16:06

year for this for sale to go through.

16:09

If the sale doesn't happen, then the app could

16:11

be banned in the US. Now, keep in mind,

16:13

like it's not like TikTok is just going to

16:15

disappear from your phone in a year if this

16:17

ban happens. But what the provision

16:20

of the law says is that basically the

16:22

app couldn't get updated in the app stores. So

16:25

eventually just wouldn't work anymore. And then

16:27

web servers couldn't really host the app.

16:29

So at some point that would mean

16:31

that it's no longer usable and effectively

16:33

would be banned at that point. I

16:36

see. I see. Like you're kind

16:38

of restricting how it's used on these devices.

16:40

Exactly. If they sell, who would

16:42

they sell it to? Like I keep wondering, what if

16:44

no one wants to buy it or what if they

16:47

can't find a price that they agree on? What happens?

16:49

Well, and really the question is about the

16:51

price because if you ask any

16:53

company, whether it's a big consumer

16:55

company or a tech company, a

16:58

lot of people would like to

17:00

buy TikTok. It is an incredibly

17:02

valuable asset. It has 170 million

17:04

users who are glued to the

17:06

platform. It has the data

17:08

on those users. And it

17:10

has this algorithm that is

17:12

incredibly valuable because the algorithm

17:14

keeps people there. It keeps

17:16

people creating content all the

17:19

time. TikTok allows me that unique ability

17:21

to just go and be myself in front

17:23

of a large audience. And

17:25

have people support my business because they like who I am

17:27

and what I'm about. When you talk to

17:29

analysts who are looking at this possibility of a

17:31

sale, some of the biggest names that they throw

17:33

out are big tech companies

17:36

like Oracle or Microsoft. Oracle

17:38

could be an obvious buyer because it already works

17:40

with TikTok to host some of those data servers.

17:42

Remember, this is the point TikTok has been making

17:45

that it has a lot of its servers already

17:47

in the US and Oracle is actually the company

17:49

that it works with on that. So that could

17:51

make sense. You also have

17:53

out there the possibility of a Walmart.

17:55

For a big consumer company that's also

17:58

doing a lot of e-commerce. Maybe

18:00

they would want access to all of

18:02

that digital gold basically

18:04

that tiktok has the Question

18:07

really is can any of those

18:10

companies pay the price? One

18:12

analyst I talked to said he thinks that tiktok

18:14

right now is valued at about a hundred billion

18:16

dollars That's a number that a lot of people

18:19

throw hundred bill a hundred billion a hundred billion

18:21

with the B. That is Massive that is a

18:23

lot of cash to put forward So

18:25

it would take a pretty big company

18:28

to be able to put

18:30

that kind of money forward The other

18:32

option is let's say a group of

18:34

companies get together the former

18:36

Treasury Secretary and your former president Trump Steve Mnuchin

18:38

has proposed this idea of a Consortium

18:40

basically a bunch of investors come together put

18:42

up the capital and then they kind of

18:44

like co-own Tiktok the

18:47

issue with this sale and so even if

18:49

you have someone who has that much money

18:52

The question would still be is would

18:54

the Chinese government allow it because why

18:56

would the Chinese government want to give

18:58

up this? Incredibly valuable algorithm and they've

19:00

basically suggested so far. They don't want

19:02

to give it up So

19:05

then if China tries to block a sale

19:07

Is there a way that maybe a

19:10

company could buy tiktok without buying the

19:12

algorithm? So could you buy the brand

19:14

all the users the data but not

19:16

actually buy what it's kind of crown

19:18

jewel is Maybe that's something that China

19:20

would allow. Is there

19:22

a way that the company could go public through

19:25

an IPO? That wouldn't mean

19:27

that another company has to pay all this money

19:29

So there's options that are being floated out there

19:31

But in the interim there's gonna be this kind

19:33

of legal battle where tiktok is now saying Brad

19:36

They want to fight this this whole law is

19:38

illegal make no mistake This is

19:40

a ban a ban on tiktok

19:42

and a ban on you and your voice.

19:44

They say that this is Unconstitutional

19:47

and that the sale shouldn't even

19:49

have to be a topic in the first place Yeah,

19:52

let's talk about the fight in court because that seems

19:54

like the thing that could push this well beyond nine

19:56

months perhaps I mean what what is the argument from

19:58

tiktok and I guess could China tell its parent company

20:00

like, nope, don't do it. Don't let them do it. So

20:03

TikTok signaled yesterday that it will

20:05

file a lawsuit challenging this forced

20:07

sale. And it has yet to

20:09

do that. That'll probably come out

20:11

within a couple of weeks. It's actually

20:13

ironic because the freedom of expression

20:16

on TikTok reflects the same American

20:18

values that make the United States

20:20

a beacon of freedom. That will

20:22

then take some time to get litigated. But

20:25

most investors who are keeping an eye on this

20:27

say there's no way that these conversations about a

20:29

sale or an IPO

20:31

or anything like that when it comes to how

20:33

to get TikTok free of that Chinese parent are

20:35

gonna happen until this kind of legal battle plays

20:37

out. Probably

20:39

at least gonna consume the next couple of months. I

20:42

mean, I think the really important thing for users to

20:44

know for like people who are on TikTok all the

20:46

time every day is nothing's gonna change

20:48

in the end. As this litigation is going forward,

20:50

even if there are talks behind the scenes about

20:52

a buyer, that's not gonna change

20:55

the fact that at least for probably a year the

20:57

app's gonna stay as it is. And that's something that

20:59

TikTok's making a point of saying to for

21:01

now proceed as planned. Don't flee, everything's

21:04

fine, we're gonna find this. And

21:06

if you've got companies that aren't allowed to buy it for

21:08

antitrust reasons or whatever, you think that lowers the prices even

21:11

more, which is why TikTok is saying like, you guys are

21:13

forcing us into a fire sale, we're not gonna get anything

21:15

for this. Elizabeth Schulze, really helpful,

21:17

thank you so much. Thanks so much, Brad. Okay,

21:22

one more quick break. When we come back, it's

21:24

one of the heaviest trophies in sports that is

21:26

not weighing on his mind anymore. One last thing is

21:28

next. The

21:33

first ever criminal trial of a

21:35

former president is underway in Manhattan.

21:37

It's one of potentially four trials facing

21:39

former President Trump as he makes his

21:41

third bid for the White House. What

21:44

do voters think about his culpability and

21:46

what a guilty verdict make a difference

21:48

in the election? I'm

21:50

Galen Drouk and every Monday and Thursday on

21:53

the FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast, we break down the

21:55

latest news from the campaign trail. We sort

21:57

through the noise and zoom in on what...

22:00

really matters using data and research

22:02

as we go. That's 538 Politics

22:05

every Monday and Thursday wherever you

22:07

get your podcasts. And

22:12

one last thing. Yesterday, Reggie Bush

22:14

got a piece of history back.

22:17

Four steps outside. 35, 40, 40.

22:19

You don't remember, before Reggie Bush was a star

22:22

running back in the NFL, back in the early

22:24

aughts, he was a star running back at USC.

22:27

And that's Reggie Bush being Reggie

22:29

Bush. He was part of what some

22:31

called the greatest championship game ever played.

22:34

And in 2005, he won college

22:36

football's highest honor, the Heisman Trophy.

22:39

Reggie Bush. But

22:42

shortly after, reports started bubbling up that

22:44

Bush and his family had accepted gifts from

22:46

a local agent, like help with their debt

22:48

and a rental home they didn't have to

22:51

pay for. Bush denied any impropriety, but then

22:53

this agent came out by name suing him,

22:55

saying he had given the Bush family almost

22:57

$300,000 and wanted it back. All

23:02

of this would have made Bush

23:04

ineligible to play college ball at

23:06

the time. So after an investigation,

23:08

arbitration, and defamation lawsuits, the NCAA

23:10

stripped USC of its national championship

23:12

and the Heisman Trust asked for

23:14

their trophy back. He relented

23:16

and sent it to them. The

23:19

NCAA determined that his violations meant he

23:21

was ineligible to play in 2005, the

23:23

year he won. Well,

23:26

think about where we are nowadays. College

23:28

athletes are allowed to work with agents. They're allowed

23:30

to get endorsement deals. Some make

23:32

far more than what Bush was allegedly promised. Gradually,

23:35

the tone around him shifted. I'm

23:38

not giving up that Heisman if I

23:40

was Reggie Bush. If they were cheating,

23:42

that's one thing. The fact that a

23:44

guy made his family a little more

23:46

comfortable, and this is something, we're not

23:48

talking about OJ Simpson here. Another Heisman

23:50

winner, Johnny Nanzel, said he wouldn't have

23:52

anything to do with the award until

23:54

Bush got his trophy back. Well,

23:57

yesterday, ESPN reported that Bush has been

23:59

re-unified. with his Heisman. After 14 years,

24:02

the Heisman Trust has given him a key

24:04

part of his legacy back. But

24:06

this will set off more questions. Like,

24:08

will the NCAA restore USC, the school's

24:10

2004 championship? Does Bush deserve

24:13

to be treated by today's standards even

24:15

if he did break the rules at

24:17

the time? Because even if rules are

24:19

unjust, lots of other players conceivably scrimped

24:22

and saved to get by. So does

24:24

it matter if he didn't have to?

24:26

Perhaps we already have our answer. After

24:28

all, the original Trojans understood history

24:31

is always seen through the eyes of the

24:33

victor. Also,

24:36

when you see people lugging around this

24:38

Heisman trophy, it is outrageously heavy looking.

24:40

Like, it looks like you're just carrying

24:42

your teammate. They're just cast in bronze.

24:45

I wonder how much it costs

24:47

to ship this thing back and forth from New York

24:49

to wherever it's going. More on all

24:51

these stories at abcnews.com or the ABC News app.

24:53

I'm Brad Milkey. See you tomorrow. Transcribed

24:58

by https://otter.ai