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out how. Oh my God, we got him. At

2:44

least two minutes a day he's not on TV.

2:46

Bernardo Mariotti, good morning. Hello. Good

2:49

morning. Good morning. Sorry, very difficult TV

2:51

schedule this morning. I know. No, we're so thrilled to

2:53

have you. So let's talk about, since today

2:55

is gag order day, let's talk about that first.

2:58

One expert, your friend Andrew Weissman said,

3:00

you have Donald Trump clearly goading the

3:02

judge. Obviously talking about

3:04

the jurors yesterday on top of

3:06

what, previous seven violations. What

3:09

does the judge do today, do you think? I

3:13

do think he'll impose fines. The statutory maximum

3:15

in New York is $1,000. And

3:18

we both know, Stephanie, that that's not going to

3:20

do anything to Donald Trump. $1,000 means nothing to

3:22

him. So

3:25

I don't really think that's going to help. Right

3:28

now, the lawyers, as we're talking,

3:30

the lawyers are back in chambers.

3:34

And that happens sometimes. Judges will take

3:36

both parties into chambers. And it's usually

3:38

when the judge wants to

3:40

have a more informal setting. It's still on the

3:42

record. That's about as informal as it gets with

3:45

the judge. So there's still a court reporter there.

3:48

But it means that it's outside of the public

3:50

view. And I think

3:52

there's going to be in that

3:54

discussion some frank talk about how

3:56

the attorneys have no control over their

3:58

client. OK. really why

4:00

I think that the judge has decided to

4:03

do that. I don't

4:05

think that he's going to imprison Trump before the

4:07

trial. I just don't think that, or before a

4:09

sentence. I just don't think that's going to happen.

4:11

Every party's got its pooper. That's why we invited

4:13

you this morning, Renato. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm

4:16

just being real with you. Like all of you

4:18

cheering that to happen. That is not actually going

4:20

to happen, and people who are telling you that

4:22

are lying to you or misleading you.

4:24

I will say that what

4:26

I expect will happen is the

4:28

judge is going to make it

4:30

apparent to Trump's attorneys that

4:33

this is making him really unhappy, and that

4:35

it's going to impact his rulings at the trial

4:38

in not so many words. He's

4:40

going to imply that, and he's going

4:42

to try to have them exert maximum

4:44

pressure on Trump because they don't

4:47

want to lose the trial. Yeah.

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6:47

obviously, you know, we've been talking a lot about,

6:49

well you actually said it best on Twitter. You

6:52

said Trump has been charged with falsifying business records,

6:54

not with making the hush money payments themselves. That's

6:56

why the defense is going to focus on whether

6:58

Trump knew about the false statements in business records.

7:02

Again, as many people have said, paying

7:05

someone off is not the crime, correct?

7:07

Do you think the prosecution did a

7:09

good job in laying things out initially yesterday?

7:12

I do. What I will say,

7:14

Stephanie, is one thing they're doing, and this is

7:16

I think prosecutors do this

7:19

all the time, is instead of

7:21

focusing entirely on... Their

7:23

presentation was not as sharp as what I put

7:25

on Twitter that you were reading. In other words,

7:27

they're not focused like a laser on the legal

7:29

issues that matter, which they don't need to. They're

7:32

talking to a bunch of people who are not

7:34

lawyers. Okay, now one issue for them

7:36

is there's two lawyers on the jury. But

7:38

generally speaking, they're talking

7:40

about a grand conspiracy to influence the

7:43

election. I think that's important because you

7:45

need to show the jury why are

7:47

we here many years later

7:49

talking about what happened years ago. Why

7:51

is this important? Why does this matter?

7:54

I think that as the trial goes on, though,

7:56

Stephanie, I think the points that I was trying

7:58

to make about the legal... legal issue are going

8:01

to come into focus because it was apparent to me

8:03

that Trump's legal team, despite in

8:05

the beginning saying all the claptrap about how it

8:08

didn't happen and he didn't really have an affair

8:10

and whatever they want to say, they deny everything,

8:12

they got to and focus on the

8:15

legal points. Speaking of being able to

8:17

control your client, is Trump going to...wouldn't he be

8:19

so lucky that Trump will testify? I don't think

8:21

so. Something like maybe if

8:23

the late night host goad him enough. Well,

8:26

usually he was going to talk to Mueller and

8:28

then he didn't, right? He

8:30

said, you know, and even, you know,

8:32

in the state AG trial,

8:35

the New York Attorney General trial, a

8:37

civil trial, like he did not testify

8:39

at the trial. So I don't

8:41

see that happening. Yeah, well,

8:44

unless they have a tranquilizer dart, I'm not sure how

8:47

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first month. Here's the thing is, um,

10:11

you tweeted, there's no question the prosecutors have the

10:13

upper hand in his trial. They usually do. This

10:15

case is no exception, but Trump has some path

10:17

to a hung jury or full or more

10:19

likely partial victory, which is why the fault

10:21

lines above will be the focus at trial

10:23

and all the stuff you laid out. I

10:26

think that's what we're all afraid of, particularly

10:28

with this blatant, you know, jury tampering

10:31

witness intimidation, whatever you want to call it

10:33

going on with him and his allies on

10:35

Fox News or whatever. You know,

10:37

someone was saying, I don't even know if six alternates are

10:39

going to be enough and that must be something as

10:41

a prosecutor, Renato, that would terrify you

10:43

that all you need is one person

10:45

to get spooked enough, right? 100%.

10:48

I don't, I don't think six alternates are going

10:50

to be enough. I would have pushed for more

10:52

if I was trying this case. I

10:55

think prosecutors should be concerned. That's why I

10:57

put some of this out there is I

10:59

think that the reason that prosecutors give plea

11:01

deals to defendants is because there's a risk

11:03

to trial and here there's a risk. There's

11:05

a risk that you have a hung jury

11:07

because you just have one person who's, you

11:09

know, there's one person on that jury who

11:11

watches Fox News. Okay. There is. Um,

11:14

you know, we, we learned that from the,

11:16

from the, uh, from the voir dire. Similarly,

11:18

like I said, there's a couple lawyers on

11:20

the jury. They could get hung up on

11:22

a very technical point and say, ah, he's

11:24

only guilty of a misdemeanor or maybe

11:26

leave the jury in, in a path that's

11:28

pro defense. You don't know that. And

11:31

so I just want people to understand when there,

11:33

there's going to be an intense fight in this

11:35

trial that it's not just some easy, uh, fight.

11:39

It's, it's a challenging, it's a challenging fight

11:41

for prosecutors. They certainly have the upper hand.

11:44

Yes. Trump is likely to get convicted. It's

11:46

always the case in a criminal trial. Um,

11:48

the prosecution is the upper hand, but I

11:50

just want people to understand what the fault

11:53

lines are going to be. Now I wore

11:55

my 45 in jail shirt for your parents

11:57

today in anticipation. So are you saying even

12:00

If he's convicted, there's no chance that they will, or

12:02

you're just saying for the gag order. For

12:04

the gag order? For the gag order, I don't

12:06

see that. I just think that's like very far

12:09

afield. It's like the unprecedented. Do

12:11

I think the prosecutors are going to seek

12:13

prison time if he's convicted on the felony

12:15

charges? Yes. Will the

12:17

judge give that? Potentially. I

12:19

mean, that's another facet here that

12:22

is interesting is most people,

12:24

and since I was a

12:26

federal prosecutor for a decade, for

12:28

the last eight years or so, I've been representing

12:30

people who are investigated, indicted,

12:33

tried. Generally, because

12:36

my clients know that the judge is going to be the one

12:38

sentencing them if we lose. So they're really

12:40

nice and very compliant with the judge's orders.

12:43

So Trump is going to rue the day

12:45

that he thums his nose and attacks Judge

12:47

Marjane if he ends up losing and is

12:49

facing a sentencing. I knew you'd give me

12:51

a happy ending. All right, back on TV,

12:53

you. We'll see you next time.

12:55

Bernardo. Thank you so much.