0:08

Welcome to the Still Hopeful Podcast

0:11

. Navigating pregnancy after

0:13

loss can be isolating , and something

0:15

I learned very early on in my rainbow

0:18

pregnancy is that we all need

0:20

a pow , pow , a pregnancy

0:22

after loss pow , and

0:25

I'll be that for you . My name is Serena

0:27

and my firstborn , my sweet

0:29

Christopher Jonathan , was stillborn

0:32

at 38 weeks . I

0:34

created this podcast as a come with

0:36

me , let's figure this out together

0:38

, kind of deal . We're going to cry , we're

0:40

going to laugh and we're going to honor

0:43

our angel babies and their siblings . Join

0:51

me week by week in your pregnancy and let's figure this all out together

0:53

as we navigate pregnancy after loss . Hey mamas

0:55

, welcome back On

0:57

this podcast episode . I'd like to

1:00

introduce myself a bit more in

1:02

more detail than what I shared

1:04

already in the trailer , and specifically

1:07

I wanted to . I want to talk about

1:09

my first baby , my sweet

1:11

Christopher , who

1:13

would be about 16

1:15

months right now , at time , at the time

1:17

of this recording . I'm

1:20

also three months pregnant

1:22

, which I'm so grateful

1:25

to be able to say , because for a very long

1:27

time I didn't know if

1:30

I'd ever be able to say that again , and

1:33

I'm really

1:35

, really excited that we've passed

1:38

the 12 week mark and baby

1:40

is growing well and

1:42

things are looking good . The anxiety is still

1:44

there and I'll definitely talk about that in future

1:46

episodes Spirals

1:49

, emotions , anxieties , ultrasounds

1:51

, doctor's appointments , all

1:54

of that stuff . I'll definitely's his story . That

1:56

has inspired

1:58

me to make this podcast

2:12

as we go

2:14

through pregnancy after loss now , and

2:17

so let's get started with

2:19

that . First . My husband

2:21

and I , michael and I , we've

2:23

been together since we were 16

2:25

. He came to my 16th birthday party , so

2:29

I guess I was actually 15 and a half

2:31

when we first met and

2:34

we liked each other right away . We

2:36

were going into grade 11 . And

2:38

the wild thing is is

2:40

when we were in grade 11 , I

2:43

had first enrolled in all the sciences

2:45

. You know when you pick your courses . I was enrolled

2:47

in biochem , physics . Me

2:50

and my best friend , who I'm

2:52

sure I'll mention later on in other

2:54

episodes . She's been such an amazing support

2:57

through all of this . Jennifer

2:59

and I , we decided to

3:01

drop out of one of our science classes

3:03

and move to another class because when

3:05

we got the syllabus we thought , oh my gosh

3:07

, this is way too heavy , way too

3:10

much , not for

3:12

us . Let's go to our guidance counselor

3:14

and find another class . So when we

3:16

went to our guidance counselor to change

3:18

classes , he said that

3:20

the only other option is parenting

3:22

. That's the only other class available at the time , and

3:29

so he said okay , we'll do that . That will actually help us boost our average . We're

3:31

in grade 11 . We're thinking about university down the line

3:33

. Parenting could probably help us get our average

3:35

, keep our average high . And

3:37

so when I walked into the parenting

3:39

class , who did I see ? Well

3:41

, it was Michael , and I already

3:43

had a crush on him then and

3:46

I was so excited that he was in the class

3:48

and I remember telling Jennifer oh my gosh

3:50

, michael's in the class . I'm

3:53

gonna date him by the end of grade 11 . Well

3:55

, a couple months later we were dating

3:57

and we've been together ever since , and I

3:59

like sharing that story because I think it's so

4:02

sweet how we actually um

4:04

our our

4:06

relationship started in parenting class

4:09

back in high school and

4:11

so fast forward all these years later . We

4:14

established our careers , bought

4:16

our house , got married , we did all

4:18

the things that we set out

4:20

to do and we were ready

4:22

to grow our family . And

4:26

when we got pregnant with Christopher , we were

4:28

so excited . He was so

4:30

planned , so wanted and so

4:32

wished for and so loved already . My

4:34

pregnancy was very smooth throughout

4:37

it , though I definitely had anxiety

4:39

that I passed off as

4:42

first time mother

4:44

jitters , fears

4:47

. But I always was scared of losing

4:49

him . And when I say losing

4:52

him , I

4:54

know in the first trimester , every time I peed

4:56

I would check for blood . I was so scared of

4:58

a miscarriage . Once I passed

5:01

around the , once

5:04

I started the second trimester , I wasn't scared

5:06

of miscarriage anymore . I was now scared of stillbirth

5:08

and I even

5:10

told my midwives one day about that

5:12

and I said , honestly , I'm having fears of stillbirth

5:15

. Um , I

5:17

don't know how common it is for them to get comments like

5:19

that , um , but they

5:21

reassured me that everything was looking good and honestly

5:24

, at the time , everything was All his

5:26

tests , all his ultrasounds , all my blood

5:28

work , everything was looking good . He was measuring

5:30

on target . Everything on paper was

5:33

perfect . Fast

5:36

forward to a couple months later

5:38

, once I was in the third trimester , I

5:43

would say maybe my fear of stillbirth went

5:45

away a little bit . Now I was thinking

5:48

once he's here , how am I going

5:50

to keep him safe ? How am I going to protect him ? And

5:53

I learned everything to

5:55

do with safe sleep protocols . I

5:59

remember I joined a Facebook group about safe

6:01

sleep . I just didn't want anything

6:03

happening where

6:05

I could have prevented something . And

6:09

so I learned

6:11

all the all the rules about how long a baby can

6:13

sleep in a car seat , how long could

6:15

a baby sleep in a sleeper , what are

6:17

the rules for bassinet use , what are the rules

6:19

for crib use . I studied it all

6:21

and I see

6:23

now that was anxiety . At the time I

6:25

thought I was simply being

6:27

protective and learning about

6:30

how to care for my baby and of course , we all

6:32

want to care for our babies and we all do the work

6:34

that's needed but the level and the extent

6:36

that it was , it was my anxiety

6:38

was so high I actually didn't hang anything

6:41

over the crib Because in the safe

6:43

sleep group it said you cannot guarantee

6:45

that a piece of art will not

6:47

fall . And I said , yeah , now you're

6:49

absolutely right and I know in my

6:51

mind that

6:53

would be incredibly rare . We

6:56

would install that art piece

6:58

, whatever it would be , properly , and

7:00

the chances of an art piece falling

7:02

into the crib is incredibly , incredibly rare . And

7:05

the chances of an art piece falling into the crib is incredibly , incredibly

7:07

rare . Most people do have something above the crib , but that is how . That is the level of

7:09

anxiety I had in the third trimester

7:11

with Christopher , where there

7:14

was nothing over his crib and I would never put anything

7:16

on there . I was even going

7:18

to do decals and I thought , no , what if a decal

7:21

falls off the wall and lands on his

7:23

face while he's sleeping ? I , that

7:25

is a level of anxiety . I'm happy to

7:27

say I'm not feeling that anxiety

7:29

right now . With baby number two , during

7:32

this pregnancy I definitely felt that with

7:34

Christopher and looking

7:37

back now I

7:40

wonder if , on some

7:42

sort of level and this is going to

7:44

make me cry if my soul

7:46

knew my soul , my heart

7:48

knew I wasn't going to have as much

7:50

time with him and

7:53

so I was doing anything I can to keep him

7:55

safe , and I like

7:57

to think I did . I kept him safe for

7:59

as long as I could . He

8:01

was always like all

8:03

of our babies . They were always warm , they were

8:05

always fed , they were always

8:07

loved , they were taken care of . When

8:10

they were in us , we

8:12

gave them all the love , um

8:14

, and that helped them grow as much as they

8:16

could . And um

8:19

, that's a huge

8:21

part of Christopher's story is , I had a

8:23

lot of anxiety that I brushed

8:25

off as first

8:28

time mom jitters , but looking back

8:30

now and being pregnant again , I see

8:32

it was a much more elevated

8:35

level and now

8:37

, sitting back and

8:39

seeing Christopher's story unfold

8:42

and having experienced what

8:44

we experienced , I really

8:46

do believe on some level

8:49

my heart knew I

8:52

would have to do everything I can to keep him

8:54

safe . But he wasn't staying

8:56

for as long as I would

8:59

have been , as long as any

9:01

mother would want right , as

9:06

long as any mother would want right . We

9:08

never want to outlive our babies , and

9:16

that ties into once . Christopher was born . He was still born at 38 weeks

9:18

. I went into the hospital at 38 weeks . I called in and said I was having a decrease

9:20

in movement and I

9:22

went into the hospital and got checked . And that's when our world came crashing

9:24

down and my husband and I went into the hospital and got checked . And that's when our

9:26

world came crashing down and my husband

9:28

and I learned that Christopher's heart had

9:30

stopped . We

9:32

um went

9:34

in through , we went through the induction of

9:37

labor . Thankfully , everything went

9:39

smoothly , as smoothly as it could under the worst

9:41

of circumstances . It literally , literally felt

9:43

like hell , um what we

9:45

were going through , and

9:47

I won't go into too much

9:49

details right now about about

9:52

Christopher's induction and

9:54

the birth and how traumatizing that was

9:57

. But what I will say

9:59

is . Despite

10:01

how terrible

10:04

, terrible , terrible , terrible

10:06

the situation was , I

10:09

honestly did feel Christopher's presence

10:11

. I felt a sense of calm

10:13

, even before I got

10:16

to see his little face . I

10:18

felt a sense of calm and I

10:20

started praying to him that night . I

10:23

prayed to God every day during my pregnancy

10:25

, but the day I found out he passed

10:27

it was the first night I started

10:29

praying to him and I

10:32

talked to our priest who married us . He

10:35

called us after hearing

10:37

the news and he explained that all of

10:39

our babies , they

10:42

go straight to heaven and they automatically become

10:44

angels because they never sinned , and

10:47

that honestly meant so much to me . In

10:49

fact , he said um

10:51

, when god called christopher home

10:53

. He listened because he's a good boy , and

10:56

that makes me tear up all

10:58

the time , because everyone wants um

11:00

, everyone wants their

11:03

child to be , you know , a good boy or a

11:05

good girl , and you never think that is the

11:07

context , because conversation is

11:09

going in um . But

11:12

I feel reassured and I truly

11:14

believe Christopher is in heaven with all

11:16

of our babies and I truly

11:18

believe they're angels . And our priest

11:20

said something that really comforted me and he

11:22

babies are such innocent

11:25

souls that when you

11:27

pray to them , they

11:30

can send their messages straight to

11:32

God , and God listens to them . First

11:35

, because they are such sweet

11:37

, innocent souls that haven't sinned

11:39

. And so , if you haven't

11:42

already , or if you

11:44

don't as often as you wish

11:46

you did , consider praying

11:48

to your babies tonight , pray to them at

11:50

night , pray to them in the morning , during the day , and

11:52

just say hey , honey , can you this

11:55

is how I'm feeling Can

11:57

you help mommy out with this ? And

12:00

not even necessarily asking baby for something

12:02

, just letting them know you're thinking about them or

12:05

praying for someone else , praying over

12:07

a situation . I

12:10

definitely rely on Christopher with that , and

12:13

so that was right away at the hospital . I

12:15

established that relationship thanks to the conversation

12:17

I had with our priest when

12:19

he called us , called

12:31

us when , just before Christopher was born , something really interesting happened , and it's the sprinkler

12:34

system went off in the birthing room in the birthing suite

12:36

. I was in a bereavement birthing suite . Thankfully

12:39

we had a

12:41

suite that was a little separate from

12:45

the other birthing areas

12:47

. I'm very grateful our hospital

12:49

had that . And

12:51

all of a sudden

12:53

, the sprinklers . We

12:56

heard dripping throughout the day . We assumed

12:58

it was a sink that was in the room . The

13:01

nurses and doctors said they also heard a dripping

13:03

. They assumed it was the shower . Well

13:05

, we all assumed wrong and it was

13:08

actually a corner sprinkler

13:10

unit that was in the ceiling and

13:12

it was dripping so much that when

13:15

it came time to push , there was a huge

13:17

puddle of water by the entrance to

13:19

the room that the doctors said

13:21

it would be unsafe to perform um , for

13:25

for me to give birth in this room , for people

13:27

to leave in and out of the room , there's just too

13:29

much water on the floor . And the

13:31

reason why I say this was so interesting is because

13:33

that's my husband's trade . He works

13:35

on the sprinkler systems and

13:37

ceilings that release water when there's a fire

13:40

, and , of course , there was no fire in that

13:42

room . No one knows why that released water

13:44

that day , but

13:46

Michael and I definitely say that

13:48

was one of the first signs we

13:51

got from Christopher , that

13:53

he's here with us and that he has a sense of humor

13:55

and I have so many stories

13:57

with signs of Christopher about

14:00

his sense of humor and I

14:02

would say that was his first one , his

14:05

sense of humor , and I would say that was his first one . And so they actually wheeled

14:07

me into another room and I gave birth within an hour after that and so I actually

14:09

ended up having to give birth in a regular suite

14:12

, since they only had one bereavement

14:14

suite , and that

14:19

really started my journey

14:21

with fostering

14:25

and continuing to foster relationship with

14:27

Christopher even after his

14:29

death , finding signs , um

14:32

, that I truly believe are from him

14:34

and that has helped

14:36

me navigate a full-term

14:40

stillbirth . Like , how do we survive that ? I

14:42

still don't know how I survived . I don't know

14:45

how any of us survive the

14:47

loss of our babies . When you really

14:49

think about it , it is such a traumatic

14:51

loss that no one should

14:54

have to experience . And the fact that we've

14:57

all experienced the loss of our babies and

14:59

we're still here , I

15:02

think angels are holding us up . I , that's the

15:04

only way I can see it . In fact , on Christopher's

15:06

funeral , we had a

15:09

funeral and our priest came

15:12

and did a beautiful

15:14

ceremony for him at the cemetery , and

15:16

Christopher is in a mausoleum in

15:18

a Catholic cemetery where

15:20

lots of our family members

15:23

are on my side and on Michael's side , and

15:26

um , I

15:29

, I forget where I was going with this , uh

15:32

about it the cemetery , um

15:34

, my Christopher getting , uh , christopher

15:38

having his ceremony , um

15:40

, I honestly , um

15:43

, oh , I know how do we survive

15:45

the funeral of our babies ? And I know , not

15:47

all of us got to have funerals for our babies

15:50

, but , um , for

15:52

the ones that have . I don't know

15:54

how we stood that day . I don't

15:57

know how we got out of bed and

15:59

got ready to go

16:01

to the funeral For those who've

16:03

had their babies cremated . I don't know how

16:05

we got in the car to go pick

16:07

up baby's ashes

16:09

. I don't know how we do it . The

16:12

only , the only solution

16:14

I have , the only understanding

16:16

I have , is that angels carried

16:18

us , and that's what I would say . That's what

16:20

I was saying at Christopher's funeral , um

16:24

, a couple of days postpartum , in a dress

16:26

with makeup on and grieving

16:28

my son with all of our family , and

16:31

when people would say I

16:34

don't know how you're doing this , I

16:36

would say I know I honestly

16:38

, I'm only here because Christopher is

16:40

holding me up , and so I'd like

16:42

to think our babies are old , always holding

16:44

us up , even as we approach

16:48

a new pregnancy . I think they're

16:50

continuously guiding us and

16:53

I

16:55

think it's important that we find signs that

16:57

they're , that they're with us and they're cheering us

16:59

on , and that they've

17:01

they've never , they've never left

17:03

us . Some

17:06

signs from Christopher that I've received

17:08

during

17:11

my first year postpartum , after

17:14

his stillbirth . I love

17:16

sharing these stories and in fact it

17:18

really lights me up . It makes

17:20

me so happy to share them . And maybe

17:24

signs aren't for everyone , maybe

17:26

some people don't believe in them , maybe some

17:28

people are against communicating

17:31

with our loved ones in the past . If that's

17:34

the case , maybe my content

17:36

isn't for you , maybe it is . Um

17:38

, I just know that it

17:41

being open to

17:43

signs from Christopher , being open

17:46

to communicating with him

17:48

, has honestly helped me so much

17:50

in my healing journey , and

17:52

so I'm going to go over a couple stories

17:54

I have so many , but I'm going to go over

17:56

a couple and hopefully

17:58

these stories will give you some , some

18:02

hope that you can foster

18:05

if you haven't already fostered this relationship

18:08

, this communication with your baby

18:10

throughout your pregnancy

18:12

, with your next baby

18:15

, as a way of continuing

18:17

your

18:19

connection . And so I'm going to go over those stories

18:22

now . All right , so

18:24

the first sign we get

18:26

a lot from our little

18:28

Christopher is flickering lights

18:30

. I had no idea this was

18:32

a thing but

18:35

about , I think a couple days

18:37

or maybe a couple weeks after

18:40

Christopher's birth , we

18:42

had a family friend come drop off meals

18:44

, which was really helpful in

18:47

those early days and when she was

18:49

dropping them off , the light in our entryway

18:51

kept flickering and

18:53

I didn't think anything of it . And she goes oh , your light's

18:55

flickering . And I said , yeah , it

18:58

just started randomly , I don't know why Never

19:02

did before . And she goes oh , you

19:04

never heard that's a loved one communicating

19:06

with you , letting you know they're here . Oh

19:08

really , I had no idea . I

19:11

can't remember if I was spooked by it or not

19:13

, but

19:19

I definitely . After she left , I googled it to see if this was a thing , and it was . I remember telling

19:21

Michael and going oh my gosh , michael , this is a thing . There's

19:23

so many articles online about this

19:25

, about how our loved ones can communicate

19:28

by flickering lights , because their energy

19:30

and they could interfere with the energy in

19:32

the electrical system , and

19:35

so we're like okay , well , I guess this

19:38

is our way of communicating with our son , and

19:40

so we we embraced it right away and

19:44

the lights have not stopped flickering

19:46

, and it's not just one light , it's anywhere

19:49

we are , so it could be in our bedroom . I

19:51

remember when , um , our amazing

19:54

midwives , they would call and check in and see

19:56

how we're doing Well , beyond

19:58

the six week postpartum mark . They

20:01

would check in on big milestones , like at the six

20:03

month mark , three month mark . And

20:05

I remember specifically one

20:08

time our midwife called and

20:10

I took the call and I was in our bedroom and

20:12

while her and I are talking , our bedroom

20:15

lights are flickering . They're

20:17

just going off and on . Very gently I

20:19

thought , oh my gosh , it's not just in

20:22

the entryway , it could be at our kitchen table , it

20:24

could be in the family room , it

20:27

could be in any room in the house . In fact , it's

20:29

gone beyond the walls of our house

20:31

. I visited

20:34

my pelvic floor specialist

20:36

throughout my pregnancy with Christopher . I went

20:38

to a pelvic floor uh therapist

20:41

, um , I was terrified of

20:43

birth and so I looked

20:45

into pelvic floor therapy to

20:47

help me prepare for birth , and she taught

20:49

me about , um , how

20:52

to like , almost

20:54

breathe through your vagina , so

20:57

to speak she worded in a much better way

20:59

but how to help yourself loosen

21:01

your muscles and what a contraction

21:03

, how to prepare for contraction , how to ease

21:06

through contraction we went over all

21:08

that stuff throughout pregnancy and also how

21:10

to strengthen my pelvic muscles

21:12

throughout pregnancy and how to strengthen , um

21:15

, um , uh

21:18

, your glutes , like our glute muscles

21:20

. It's all connected . And so

21:22

I saw her throughout my pregnancy

21:24

and then I wanted to see her postpartum

21:27

and , of course , I had to share a

21:29

Christopher story with her Um

21:31

, and when I did the

21:33

lights in her office

21:36

and in her room , um

21:38

started flickering . And she goes oh

21:40

, that's weird , did you see that ? Oh

21:43

yeah , um , are you ready

21:45

for something interesting ? And she goes what , what

21:47

do you mean ? And I go well , have those

21:49

lights ever flickered before ? Did they flicker earlier

21:51

? She goes no , never . I'm here all the time

21:53

. They've never flickered . I've never seen that . I

21:56

go okay , you might want to sit down for this , but

21:58

I find when I talk about Christopher

22:01

, it's not every time , but

22:04

uh , there are times when I do and the lights

22:06

start flickering wherever I am . It's always happened

22:08

in her house is the first time it happened outside

22:10

the house . She

22:13

couldn't believe it . We both started crying and hugging

22:16

and she's like I've never seen anything like

22:18

this . But I'm not even scared , I'm just so

22:20

, I just feel so much love and

22:22

I'm like , yeah , he's definitely making himself known

22:25

. And so that was , I

22:27

think , maybe seven weeks postpartum , so

22:29

so early on in

22:32

um in her journey

22:34

after losing Christopher , and

22:37

it was really cool to see the lights flicker

22:39

outside of our house . It's not like

22:41

as if we have an electrical electrical problem

22:44

at home we need to worry about . This is now happening outside

22:46

of the house . It also happened

22:48

on Christopher's first birthday . We

22:50

went , uh , we took our family out

22:53

for brunch and

22:55

we all sat down at the table . We're

22:57

all together , there's about 12 of us . We

23:01

all sat around this big table at brunch

23:03

and all of a sudden , the power

23:06

goes out . And I'm not kidding you , the

23:08

power went out in the restaurant . At least the

23:10

lights did . I don't know about the kitchen , but

23:12

the lights in the entire restaurant . It's not

23:14

a huge restaurant , so we got to see that

23:16

throughout the whole floor the lights went out and then they

23:18

went back on and the waitress

23:20

goes . Well , that was weird . And

23:23

my dad , who's so

23:25

scientific , for him everything's black

23:27

or white , he doesn't understand

23:30

that the lights could be flickering from a loved

23:32

one who's passed . But he , that

23:35

was the day he converted and changed and

23:37

he goes Christopher's

23:39

here and we all start

23:41

laughing . I go see dad , you

23:43

see what I mean . And he's

23:45

like , yeah , I can't deny it , that is , that's

23:48

Christopher . The lights went off in the entire restaurant

23:50

and so Michael and I always joke

23:52

like the guts this kid has to

23:55

play with the lights at a restaurant . Like , okay , I

23:57

get it at home , but

23:59

at a restaurant . That that's taken to a whole other

24:01

level . And

24:03

, um , yeah , the lights are flickering

24:05

in many places . Uh , over

24:08

this past uh year and a bit , at

24:11

my parents' house , when we announced our this

24:13

pregnancy , our second baby , the

24:16

light started flickering in their kitchen and

24:18

again my dad goes yeah , the lights

24:20

are flickering and

24:23

so , uh

24:25

, it's just so , so special

24:28

out of this world . I never

24:30

thought I would be communicated with

24:32

my child through flickering lights , never

24:34

in a million years . And , of course

24:37

, if I could have it any other way , it would be

24:39

different . It would be that he's physically here

24:41

. But if this is the way

24:43

I have to communicate with Christopher , it

24:45

is . It is what it's going to

24:47

be and I'm going to continue embracing it and

24:50

and celebrating all these fun

24:53

flickering lights . And so anytime my husband

24:55

and I see flickering lights , we go that

24:57

he's here and our

25:00

, our friends and family know that and

25:02

celebrate that with us . Another

25:05

uh lesson I've learned is

25:08

um , it was actually through meeting

25:11

with a medium . I

25:13

met this lovely medium who she

25:15

also lost her son . He was a teenager

25:18

when he passed and she's

25:20

passionate about connecting parents with

25:23

their children in spirit

25:25

, their children who have passed . And

25:27

so I met with her when I was about

25:29

two months postpartum

25:32

, two months after Christopher's death , and

25:35

the thing she told me blew

25:37

my mind Christopher's

25:41

death , and the thing she told me blew my mind . And my husband wasn't really into this

25:43

whole , um , medium ship idea , so

25:45

he stayed in another room . I actually did

25:47

it on a zoom call and so I

25:50

was in the nursery on the zoom call

25:52

and Michael was in our bedroom , um

25:55

, just across the hall , and there

25:57

was a point where he overheard what the

25:59

medium was saying and he ran

26:02

into the room and was like

26:04

, oh , holy shit , that

26:06

is Christopher . And

26:08

uh , sharon , the medium was

26:10

talking about how she sees

26:13

, um , a car . And she's saying do

26:15

you play some sort of radio game with

26:17

Christopher ? Because he's showing me a radio

26:19

and something about clicking buttons and

26:21

listening to the songs and it's a game

26:23

you play . And that is a game

26:26

my husband and I started right away after

26:28

losing Christopher . And it's

26:30

a radio , it's I call it the radio game and

26:33

I recommend it to anyone who's lost a loved

26:35

one where , when you're in the car , you

26:37

just say , okay , I'm going to change the radio station

26:39

three times so I don't know what station

26:41

is going to land on , don't know what song is going to be playing

26:44

, but whatever song is on

26:46

or whatever song is going to play next

26:48

, you decide is from you

26:50

. And so we say , okay , christopher

26:53

, get ready , you're

26:59

going to pick the next song , 123 , click three channels

27:01

. Or if it's a random playlist , click one , two , three . So you don't

27:03

know what song is going to play next . And we say

27:05

, whether it's hardcore rap , a

27:07

hardcore rock or obscene rap

27:09

or a really sad song , it doesn't matter . We

27:12

listen for the message and it always

27:14

resonates with us . Or if

27:16

it's like obscene rap or hardcore rock , it just

27:18

gives us a good laugh . Because you're like buddy , you're a baby

27:21

, why are you listening to this stuff ? Come on , you

27:23

should be listening to nurseries , nursery rhymes

27:25

, and so it makes us laugh and

27:27

instantly puts us in a better mood . And

27:29

so when Sharon mentioned that and that was

27:31

so specific to , that's our game

27:34

with Christopher right off the bat , that was our

27:36

game , that we started playing with him

27:38

immediately after losing

27:40

him . When she mentioned that

27:42

, among so many other things , she mentioned

27:44

so many things that she wouldn't have known otherwise

27:47

. That

27:49

also helped me , and Michael really believe

27:51

that when we play that radio game

27:53

, it is truly Christopher playing

27:55

along with us , and so

27:57

I recommend that game to you If you're

28:00

looking for a way of like . Where do I start

28:02

? Um , how do I communicate

28:04

with my , with my baby

28:06

or babies who have passed

28:09

? Well , of course , nurturing

28:11

your relationship with your , with your children earth side

28:13

, or your pregnancy , how to find a way to connect with your children earth side , or your pregnancy

28:16

, how to find a way to connect with your babies that have

28:18

passed . The radio game is a beautiful

28:20

way of doing that and

28:23

that's a game we continue to play and

28:25

it's consistently awesome

28:27

, whether it's a

28:29

song with a really beautiful message . I

28:32

remember , at the six month mark , michael

28:34

and I went to the hospital to bring

28:37

some crocheted blankets

28:40

and like

28:42

little pods , like how

28:45

do I explain it ? Like a little

28:47

blanket for babies who are still born

28:49

very early

28:51

on in gestation , where a hospital blanket

28:53

would be too big . And so a

28:56

lot of people who

28:58

crochet crochet smaller

29:00

blankets , smaller cradles

29:02

that's a good word for it , cradles , not

29:04

pods make little cradles

29:07

out of crochet . That way parents

29:09

can hold their little babies , and

29:11

so my mom has

29:14

so graciously made different

29:16

cradles and blankets of different sizes

29:18

for stillborn babies who wouldn't

29:20

be able to wear , let's say , a

29:22

preemie or a newborn outfit . They

29:24

would just be too big . So smaller

29:26

cradles and blankets . And we went to

29:29

the hospital to ask them which sizes

29:31

um that we brought . Do

29:33

you think they'll need more of which ? Which colors

29:35

um would

29:38

they prefer ? Pretty much what does

29:40

the hospital need so that we can address um

29:42

any needs that they have to help other

29:45

parents ? And this was at the six

29:47

month mark . And , of course , walking back

29:49

to the hospital took

29:52

a lot out of us and I

29:54

cried when we left . Well , I cried

29:56

when I got there , but also just

29:58

leaving the hospital again without a

30:00

baby . I knew I wasn't going in there to get a baby

30:02

. I was six months postpartum , not

30:05

pregnant at all , but just leaving

30:07

those hospital doors again was so emotional

30:09

. And when we got back in the car

30:11

, um , a

30:14

song was on it's uh

30:16

, it was called no more tears , no

30:19

more tears . And the

30:22

screen in my car glitched

30:24

, in the sense that normally my

30:27

car the the screen will show

30:29

what song is playing now and

30:31

then , every time the song changes , the screen updates

30:33

. Well , the screen stopped updating . It

30:35

just said no more tears , tears , even

30:37

though other songs were playing . After

30:40

that , and all these

30:42

other songs were playing , we we went for a drive

30:44

for maybe an hour just to clear

30:46

our minds and talk about what

30:48

we just went through . Going back to the hospital

30:51

even though it was for a good cause , it was still

30:53

extremely emotional , and driving

30:55

around for an hour it had no

30:57

more tears frozen , stuck

30:59

on the screen , um

31:02

and again . Uh , really

31:04

like that . That's Christopher , my , my

31:06

car , like the screen , never glitches

31:09

it in the past . I've had this car

31:11

for maybe nine years , nine , 10 years

31:13

. I never glitched , but that

31:15

day it did , at the six month

31:17

mark , leaving the hospital again

31:19

crying

31:22

no more tears , was stuck on the

31:24

screen . For me there's no other

31:26

explanation than that . It's just so

31:29

ironic that it would happen at

31:32

that day , at that moment , those

31:35

lyrics frozen on the screen , a

31:38

sign from Christopher , is all I can say , and

31:42

I have so many other stories

31:44

, but I'll

31:47

scatter them throughout different podcast episodes

31:49

. Those are just a few , whether

31:52

it's the flickering lights , the radio game

31:54

definitely try out the radio game

31:56

if you haven't already . Um

31:58

, one last game I like to play

32:00

, to always be in communication

32:02

with christopher is to ask

32:04

for a specific sign , and

32:06

so I'll say things like

32:09

okay , christopher , uh

32:11

, over the next little while , can you send me

32:13

, um , a yellow butterfly , and

32:16

that might come in the form of like

32:19

an emoji someone sends me . It might be

32:22

a picture I see on Pinterest

32:24

. It might be an actual yellow

32:26

butterfly , and that's what happened at

32:29

the five month mark . At

32:32

the five month mark , my husband and I we

32:35

went on our honeymoon that we

32:37

never got to go on due to the pandemic

32:39

, and so while we were on leave

32:41

, we said , hey , you know what we need to

32:43

get out of here . So we took

32:45

a cruise , a Mediterranean

32:47

cruise , and on our five month

32:50

, um , on Christopher's five month

32:52

birthday , we were walking

32:54

around the streets of Rome and

32:57

I had asked him to send a yellow butterfly

32:59

at some point during the vacation and

33:02

it was walking the streets of Rome

33:04

, his five-month birthday this beautiful

33:06

yellow butterfly comes

33:08

flying between Michael and I and flies

33:10

off , and we

33:13

were in awe like , wow , we

33:16

asked for this yellow butterfly . It's been

33:18

. I think we were maybe seven

33:20

days into the cruise . It was a

33:23

10-day cruise , so we were nearing

33:25

the end of it . Maybe we were halfway through the cruise

33:27

, and it's not that I was losing

33:29

hope , I was just hoping I would see this yellow butterfly

33:31

sooner and so I was just like , okay

33:34

, eventually I'll see the yellow butterfly , eventually it

33:36

will come . But

33:38

then it came on the perfect day , on Christopher's

33:40

five-month birthday , and

33:43

I know if he was here physically

33:45

we would have had , you

33:48

know , a celebration , at least a photo shoot , right

33:50

Saying , with a sign that says five

33:52

months . And so that was our way

33:54

of celebrating Christopher turning five months

33:56

with that yellow butterfly . It couldn't have

33:58

been more perfect . And I

34:01

almost forgot on the ship

34:03

and in one of the hotel

34:05

rooms in Barcelona we were at , the

34:07

lights flickered at those two places too

34:09

. We got that on camera . And the cruise ship

34:12

, the lights flickering , and

34:14

it happened in Barcelona too , at the hotel

34:16

. So , like this kid's international

34:18

at this point which , uh

34:21

, his signs have crossed borders

34:24

and , um , yeah

34:26

, it's just so cool again wild . I never

34:29

thought I'd be making a podcast

34:31

about pregnancy after loss , never thought

34:33

I would be talking about my

34:36

, the signs I received

34:38

for my stillborn baby , never thought

34:40

I'd be going down this path . But

34:44

it's just so hard to deny at this point

34:47

that there have been so many signs from Christopher

34:49

and I don't want to see

34:51

like share all these stories in

34:54

a way of showing off and saying , look at all the signs

34:56

I get . I don't mean that at all . It's

35:00

more to give hope and reassurance

35:02

that our babies are okay , and

35:04

I truly believe all of our babies

35:06

are sending us signs . If that's what we

35:09

want and if we're not noticing

35:11

the signs , we just

35:13

have to . Um , I

35:16

think , do two things one , be

35:18

more in tune and

35:20

like sit

35:22

back almost and try

35:24

to see when we reflect on our

35:27

day and go , how did everything work out ? How

35:29

did everything pan out today ? Were

35:31

there any signs that I came across

35:33

that could have been my baby ? And

35:36

two , asking our baby whether

35:38

it's asking for a song on the radio or

35:41

just seeing what song comes up , seeing

35:44

what message they have for us , or asking

35:46

for a particular sign or symbol , like

35:48

the yellow butterfly . I

35:50

find when I do those

35:52

kinds of games , it really helps

35:55

, um , ignite

35:57

my hope that my baby's still

35:59

with me , cause I'm not going to lie to you there are moments

36:01

where I go . It's been a while since I've got a sign . It's

36:03

been a while since the light flickered . Um

36:06

, christopher , are you still here

36:09

? And so I'll ask for a sign

36:11

and my , I still need that reinsurance

36:13

, um , that reassurance

36:16

. And so if you need that reassurance

36:18

too , hey , I totally understand

36:20

, that

36:26

reassurance too , hey , I totally understand . And if you're open to receiving those signs

36:28

and you ask your baby for them when you play the radio game

36:30

, for example , I really hope that , um

36:32

, you receive the signs

36:34

you need , and I would love to hear about that too

36:36

. Um , I would absolutely

36:39

love to hear about that . And

36:41

so I

36:43

think this brings us to

36:45

near the end of today's

36:47

podcast , where I had a chance to share

36:50

Christopher's story , share

36:52

his pregnancy , set the foundation

36:54

of where I'm coming from , and all of this

36:56

with this podcast

36:58

. A little bit about

37:00

my current pregnancy

37:03

I'm officially 12 weeks now , which

37:05

I'm so , so

37:07

relieved to be able to say that I'm nearing

37:09

the end of the first trimester . Um

37:13

, anxiety has

37:15

been high this week . I find

37:17

my anxiety isn't as high

37:19

as it was when I was pregnant with Christopher , but

37:22

I find the day leading

37:24

up the days , but especially the day

37:26

leading up to an ultrasound , my

37:29

anxiety is at an all-time , all-time

37:31

high , and maybe you find that

37:33

too . And I'm starting

37:35

to notice patterns . And what do I do

37:37

when I'm anxious for me , I

37:40

clean , which isn't a bad

37:42

thing , but , like , sometimes I just need to chill

37:44

out , I clean , I , I

37:46

um scroll endlessly

37:48

on my phone . That's a bad habit I have , and

37:51

I do it when I'm really anxious . It's almost

37:53

like I'm scrolling to avoid the

37:56

the thoughts of my mind , and

37:59

I found I was doing that a lot . The day

38:01

before my 12-week ultrasound

38:03

, I was terrified of receiving bad news

38:05

. In fact , I I

38:08

was really . I was hoping for good news

38:10

, but I feel like , deep down

38:12

, I was bracing myself for

38:15

for the worst news , thinking

38:17

that it might help less if I already

38:19

braced myself for it , and maybe you felt like that too . Maybe

38:21

you felt like that too . Maybe you feel like that too with

38:24

every ultrasound . Um

38:26

, one thing I asked

38:29

for when going into this ultrasound

38:31

, and I asked for it at the eight week ultrasound both

38:34

times my request was denied and I really

38:36

don't understand why . Maybe

38:38

someone can explain this to me . I

38:40

asked for my husband to be in the room from the very beginning

38:42

of the appointment and both

38:45

times our request has been denied and I explained

38:47

listen , this is a super

38:49

anxious time for us . He's going to

38:51

be freaking out in the waiting room I'm going

38:53

to be crying as you're setting

38:55

up the ultrasound in

38:58

another room without him there . And

39:00

if I get bad news , I do not

39:02

want to hear it alone . And

39:05

they're like , oh , we always have just

39:07

the mom come in first and then we do the measurements

39:09

, then we'll invite , um

39:12

, their support person in . It's like , okay

39:14

, but you're not hearing me and

39:16

I'm really struggling with am I not

39:18

advocating enough for myself ? Am I being too

39:20

polite about things and just going , hey , can

39:23

my husband come in ? Instead of saying I need my husband

39:25

to come in for

39:27

this reason ? Um

39:29

, if you have a good script , a

39:31

good line that you use to

39:34

help you , please let me know because

39:36

, um , I need to figure that out for future

39:39

appointments . It is , um

39:41

, it's not a nice way to start the appointment

39:44

when I ask for something and it gets denied

39:46

immediately . And maybe it

39:48

will be different when I'm at MFM

39:50

maternal fetal medicine with the high risk

39:52

clinic at the hospital . But in

39:54

the meantime , I've just been at regular ultrasound

39:56

clinics and they do not let support

39:58

people in until they've done the main

40:01

measurements , which I understand . You know they

40:03

have to focus to do the main measurements . That it's

40:05

very important , but

40:07

I think we need some exceptions for us and

40:10

I don't see that in a way where

40:12

, like I'm saying , we need special treatment

40:15

, but also , at the same time , this is very

40:17

nerve wracking . After

40:19

you've seen an ultrasound where

40:22

the baby is still , it's

40:24

very hard to unsee that , very

40:27

hard . Um , yeah

40:31

, after you've seen an ultrasound where

40:33

there's no heart beating anymore , it's

40:35

very hard to get another

40:37

one , no matter how many

40:40

ultrasounds that

40:42

have happened since . It just brings

40:44

you right back . You're lying down the

40:46

cold jelly on your belly then

40:50

getting the machine . It just brings back

40:52

so many emotions

40:54

every time . Um

40:57

, and

40:59

so if anyone has any advice for

41:01

that , for advocating for yourself

41:03

at an appointment and asking for your support person

41:05

to be inside with you right away , I

41:08

am open to that advice and then I

41:10

can share that with other moms who

41:12

ask me about what advice I

41:14

got from this , because that's something I need to

41:16

work on . After

41:19

the appointment and we saw that everything

41:21

was looking good I felt like I was

41:23

able to breathe a little more not breathe

41:26

fully . I don't think I'm going to take a full , deep

41:28

breath until this

41:30

little baby's earth side . Until

41:32

then , I felt like and until

41:34

then , it's little breaths

41:36

. And so having that 12

41:39

week ultrasound and seeing everything looking good

41:41

and

41:43

so , having that 12 week ultrasound and seeing everything looking

41:45

good , it gives me hope that we're on the right track , on the

41:47

right track . And so

41:50

, in other words , when it comes to preparing for ultrasounds

41:52

, something that helped

41:54

me was identifying what

41:57

do I do when I'm anxious , and so that

41:59

was scrolling , scrolling , scrolling and cleaning

42:01

, cleaning , cleaning and trying to break

42:03

those habits , because none of them were productive

42:06

. And well , the cleaning was , but

42:08

none of it was actually helping me

42:10

feel better . It wasn't . I could

42:12

clean all day , but if I'm super

42:14

anxious , I might feel good that my you

42:17

know kitchen is clean , but inside

42:19

, like , my emotions weren't addressed , and so

42:21

that was still lingering in

42:24

me , and so

42:26

I think next time

42:28

I'm gonna try this , we'll see how it

42:30

goes . Leading up to my appointment is

42:32

talking to someone , whether that be

42:34

my husband , my mom , a friend , a

42:36

good friend sharing how

42:39

I'm feeling , sharing my anxieties , and

42:42

then focusing

42:44

on some , like trying to do something else , whether that's

42:46

crocheting because when I'm crocheting

42:48

I can't worry about anything else , because

42:51

I'm such a beginner I have to count every

42:53

stitch , every chain . I have to count it . I've

42:56

tried doing Sudoku puzzles leading up to the

42:58

ultrasound and that actually helped , because

43:00

during those 15 minutes or 20 minutes I'm

43:03

just counting numbers one to nine over and over and

43:05

over again , trying to figure out where each number goes

43:07

, can't think of anything else , whereas

43:11

doom scrolling that wasn't helping

43:13

me . So leading up to my next ultrasound

43:15

, I'm definitely going to find

43:17

ways of doing different activities like

43:20

crushing , like Sudoku puzzles , word

43:22

searches something that keeps my mind

43:24

busy , but also

43:26

addressing how I'm actually feeling

43:28

by talking , and

43:31

talking to someone I trust , and

43:33

so I'm going to try that for my next ultrasound

43:36

. Please let me know if you have

43:38

any advice of how you prepare for an ultrasound

43:41

during your pregnancy

43:43

, after loss . I would love to hear

43:45

your ideas and what's working for you

43:47

or what's not working for you and

43:50

what you're going to do differently next time and

43:52

we can start sharing ideas with one another

43:54

. And

43:57

I think that concludes today's episode . We went over Christopher's story , where I'm coming

43:59

from . I'm going to talk about a lot of signs , so I hope that's up your episode . We went over Christopher's

44:01

story , where I'm coming from . I'm going to talk

44:03

about a lot of signs , so I hope that's up

44:05

your alley . I hope you're interested in that

44:07

and , if

44:09

you are , try the radio

44:11

game and report back to me please . I really

44:13

want to hear how that

44:15

works . Or the sign game , or have you

44:18

seen flickering lights ? I would love to hear all about

44:20

that . And then , how do you prepare

44:22

for ultrasounds ? What hasn't

44:24

worked for you and what has worked for

44:26

you , or what are you going to do differently next time

44:28

to see if it's going to work ? I would love

44:30

to hear that and we'll

44:33

talk next time . Take care , mamas

44:35

. You've got this . We've got this

44:37

. We're doing . We're

44:40

doing one step at a time . We're

44:42

doing the best we can , with

44:45

courage , with hope , and

44:49

we're getting there . We're

44:51

one day closer to seeing

44:53

our babies . Take care of moms

44:56

. Bye , bye . And

45:01

that's a wrap for today's episode

45:03

. I hope it resonated with you . Please

45:06

subscribe to the podcast so that you can get

45:08

up-to-date episodes and follow

45:10

along throughout your pregnancy , week by

45:12

week . And please join our online

45:14

community on instagram , where we

45:16

lift each other up and connect with one another

45:18

at stillhopeful

45:21

underscore podcast . Remember

45:23

, you are strong , you are resilient

45:26

, you are beautiful and

45:28

you are going to bring this baby

45:30

home . I'll

45:32

catch you next time . Until then , take

45:35

care .