0:01

Welcome to Strictly Facts , a guide to Caribbean

0:03

history and culture , hosted by me

0:05

, alexandria Miller . Strictly

0:07

Facts teaches the history , politics and

0:09

activism of the Caribbean and

0:11

connects these themes to contemporary music

0:14

and popular culture . Hello

0:20

, hello everyone . Como Saba , I

0:23

hope you're doing well . Welcome back to another episode

0:25

of Strictly Facts , a guide to Caribbean

0:28

history and culture . I don't know if

0:30

you noticed , but I , you know , dived

0:32

a little bit into some of my language skills

0:35

, as fraught as they may be for

0:37

various other languages , but really wanting

0:40

to you know , say , how are you guys

0:42

doing in French ? Because that

0:44

is sort of , in a sense , the topic

0:47

of our conversation today . We've discussed several

0:49

languages throughout . You know various episodes

0:51

, but the one that we will be focusing on today

0:54

, not really exactly

0:56

French , but many of the French-based

0:58

creoles that have developed beautifully

1:01

throughout the region and so oftentimes

1:03

we think of , you know , maybe , haiti as being

1:05

a prime example , but there are several

1:07

others throughout the region , whether

1:10

they are through various nations

1:12

or departments of France or

1:15

, you know , in a sense , meaning to an extent still

1:17

under French colonial rule

1:19

, but it gets a little bit murky depending on

1:21

. You know where we're talking about . But

1:24

all of that to say , you know , as we've

1:26

discussed several times , language is

1:28

fluid and ever evolving . How

1:31

we express ourselves is really a sign

1:33

of resistance and resilience , as we've , you know

1:35

, created

1:54

new and beautiful languages throughout . You know some of the potentially most dire times

1:56

in our history , and this is no different for parts of the region

1:58

like Guadeloupe , like Martinique , like

2:01

Dominica , like St Lucia

2:03

. You know , the list can definitely go on and

2:05

on . And so joining me for

2:07

this episode today is Creole

2:10

teacher TikTok , extraordinaire

2:12

author , and you

2:14

know many other things . I will allow her

2:17

to introduce herself , but

2:19

is Suar Smith . So

2:21

thank you so much for joining me

2:23

today for this episode . Do let

2:25

everybody know a little bit about yourself

2:27

, your connection to the region and

2:29

what inspired your passion for

2:32

Caribbean languages like Creole

2:34

.

2:35

Thank , you so much and I'm so happy

2:37

to be here . My name is Suar

2:40

Smith and I am St Lucian

2:42

Smith

2:49

and I am St Lucian . I have been teaching Creole for over a year now and it's just

2:51

something that I've been really passionate about my culture , my history , my heritage and

2:53

just getting back to my roots and being able to

2:55

give back to my country those

2:58

wanting to learn and those wanting to

3:00

just continue

3:02

what they already know . I

3:05

had a fervent desire to impart

3:08

the knowledge of Creole , recognizing

3:12

that there was a profound necessity for its dissemination , so

3:15

realizing that our language embodies

3:18

our heritage and serving

3:20

as the very essence of our ancestral

3:22

lineage and culture identity . Now

3:25

, for me , although there

3:27

are limited resources when

3:30

it comes to St Lucia and Creole , or Dominican

3:32

Creole and so on , I perceived it

3:34

as an opportunity to contribute towards

3:37

its preservation and

3:39

elevate its status as

3:41

a legitimate language . Elevates its

3:44

status as a legitimate language because it is distinct

3:46

from being , you know , erroneous

3:53

by perceived as a mere broken French , as a lot of us would say .

3:55

I think that's a great point because , and it's

3:57

one that you know is echoed , definitely

3:59

, throughout the region , right , when we're even

4:01

thinking about some of the Anglophone

4:04

Caribbean languages , what

4:07

you know some have called national languages

4:10

, like Jamaican , patois

4:12

, etc . Right , it's always described

4:14

, as you know , broken English

4:17

or whatever . You know , in preparation

4:19

for this episode , there was a quote by

4:21

a former governor . So this , you know

4:24

, stems back from like the 19th century . So

4:26

, clearly , the governor of St

4:28

Lucia , who was French

4:30

born and you know , through the ebbs

4:32

and flows of slavery and colonization

4:35

, ends up

4:37

in St Lucia and becomes

4:39

governor . But he wrote extensively about

4:42

St Lucia and the

4:44

region and , to this point

4:46

of , you know , broken French

4:48

, just terrible position on

4:51

what he sees as the development

4:53

of Creole . And so he writes

4:55

in short , it

4:57

is the French language stripped of

4:59

its manly , dignified

5:02

ornaments and traversed

5:04

for the accommodation

5:06

of children and toothless old women

5:09

. And so this is a quote by

5:11

former governor of St

5:13

Lucia , henry Breen , dating

5:16

back to like the 1800s at some

5:18

point , and I'll add it in for

5:20

many of our listeners who want to

5:22

, you know , for

5:26

many of our listeners who want to , you know , read further

5:29

along of his , you know , very colorful but definitely

5:31

, you know , racist

5:33

and diminutive way of portraying

5:35

, especially for somebody who you know goes on to

5:37

become a governor . I'm not sure if he was

5:39

governor at the time of writing this , but , yeah

5:42

, this is , you know , one

5:45

thing that I definitely wanted us to point out in

5:47

this conversation , because it's

5:49

something that has mirrored throughout the rest

5:51

of you know , the region and even

5:53

the world , when we think of you know

5:55

, languages throughout the continent of Africa

5:58

, throughout Asia , these histories of colonization

6:00

. One thing that I definitely

6:03

want to start us off on in

6:05

this discussion is thinking

6:07

about the

6:09

formations of Creole . Right , oftentimes

6:12

people put it very blanketly

6:15

and say , you know , oh , it's just a combination

6:17

of , like French and maybe English

6:20

, and you know African indigenous

6:22

languages , etc . Which I

6:24

mean you know . If we just need a one-sentence

6:27

summary , definitely is , but

6:29

could you really speak to , from the perspective

6:31

of St Lucia in particular , how

6:35

the growth of Creole evolved ?

6:38

Okay , so , basically , the

6:40

origins of Creole in St Lucia . It

6:43

is a blend of African

6:45

, european , indigenous Caribbean languages

6:48

. It's intricately

6:50

linked to French and British

6:52

colonial rule and

6:55

a product of historical encounters

6:57

between the African enslaved people

6:59

on the island at the time , indigenous Caribbean

7:01

on the island at the time , Indigenous Caribbean , the

7:04

French colonizers and then later the British

7:06

. It does , however , bear

7:08

the imprints of colonial

7:11

oppression and resistance embodying

7:28

this blend that have endured and thrived amidst the colonial rule

7:30

. We all know this time in history , the forcing of Africans to the Caribbean

7:32

, specifically

7:36

St Lucia , the French Caribbean , during the transatlantic slave trade . This was a dark chapter

7:39

in history , marked by unimaginable

7:41

suffering and exploitation . Right

7:44

so they were forcibly uprooted

7:46

from their homelands and transported

7:48

across the atlantic ocean . For

7:50

what ? To toil on plantations under

7:52

brutal conditions and therefore

7:55

, you know , with them having to be able to communicate

7:58

with each other because they spoke

8:00

different languages . It's not just one main language

8:02

or one specific place . They were taken from in Africa

8:05

and due to this , you

8:07

know , the indigenous people had their own languages as

8:09

well . The colonizers

8:11

had their languages , and

8:13

so in order for everybody to be able

8:15

to communicate this Creole

8:18

which wasn't called a Creole

8:21

back then , but this dialect was formed

8:23

you know this Pidgin language

8:25

and then over time , it evolved

8:27

, after generations , into what we

8:29

now call the Creole .

8:31

Thank you for situating us

8:34

in that history and really taking

8:37

to account I think you know it's so

8:39

much of the region but , as you definitely

8:42

mentioned , there

8:57

are several places that

9:00

had several different colonial

9:02

bodies , you know , influencing

9:04

the region . So for those like

9:06

you know more familiar with , like maybe , jamaican

9:08

history , spain was our

9:11

earliest colonizer right and

9:13

then the British came in , but , as

9:15

you're noting , for St Lucia , it

9:17

was French and then the British

9:19

right . I definitely do

9:21

want to give

9:24

our listeners a breadth of understanding

9:26

of you know these Antillean

9:28

Creoles . They may be more you

9:31

know , for instance , familiar with Haitian

9:33

Creole , but could you speak to how St

9:35

Lucian Creole is similar or

9:37

differs from some of the others , whether

9:39

that be in Haiti or Guadeloupe , dominica

9:43

, wherever ?

9:45

Okay , yes , so the French-based

9:48

Creoles exhibit variations

9:51

across different territories . Now

9:53

, despite sharing a common lexifier

9:55

, which is French , historical

9:57

influences state the evolution

10:00

of those Creole languages , leading

10:03

to a distinct regional

10:06

dialect and

10:08

linguistic characteristics

10:10

. So , for instance , let's say

10:12

that an island that was once

10:14

colonized by Spain , they may

10:16

incorporate Spanish influences into

10:19

their French-based Creole , while

10:22

another island , with a

10:24

different colonial history , may lack

10:26

such influences , thus having

10:29

a different variation of the

10:31

Creole itself . Now St

10:33

Lucian Creole resembles that of Dominicas

10:35

or Martinique Haitian Creole itself . Now St Lucia in Creole resembles that of Dominica's

10:37

or Martinique Haitian Creole as well

10:40

. They may have a lot

10:42

of similarities , but when it comes

10:44

to St Lucia in Creole , it is mostly

10:46

closer to that of Martinique and

10:48

Dominica . Sometimes

10:51

what we do have is probably

10:54

certain words that we have in

10:56

the Creole in St Lucia it would

10:58

change here and there because different accents

11:00

, right , and different

11:02

colonial rules on the island

11:04

, so that changes a

11:07

lot . This is what makes the Creole different

11:09

in different parts of

11:11

the Caribbean .

11:13

I think that is a great way

11:16

of framing it , especially because

11:18

you know we're sometimes

11:20

fall through the trap of being like we're all the Caribbean

11:23

, but you know , we

11:25

obviously have our own nuances . One

11:27

thing that I think is really powerful about

11:30

your presence on social

11:32

media is that you know you'll get

11:34

with somebody from Haiti , or you know

11:36

from Martinique , and do a sort of crossover

11:39

and say , you know , I would say this word like this in

11:42

St Lucia , and then they do their

11:44

version in Haiti or you

11:46

know wherever it is . So I will

11:48

definitely be sure to add

11:51

links to your social media . Oh , thank

11:53

you , of course

11:55

, in the show notes for our listeners

11:57

to check out . Another

12:00

thing that I think is really particular in thinking

12:02

about these Antillean Creoles

12:04

is , while in

12:07

some parts , especially of like the Anglophone Caribbean

12:10

and I talked about this in a previous episode

12:12

there is , like

12:15

you know , yui here in Jamaica has

12:17

created a writing system

12:20

for Patois , but it's not necessarily like

12:22

widely recognized or used popularly

12:25

throughout the region or the diaspora

12:27

right , whereas you

12:29

guys , more so , have a like formalized

12:32

writing system . And so could

12:34

you speak to its development

12:36

a little bit and share some examples

12:38

of how the structure differs from

12:40

French especially ?

12:43

So , yeah , the language . It has

12:45

been mainly an

12:47

oral-based language until about

12:50

the 1900s , more specifically

12:52

1980s , thereabout , more

12:58

specifically 1980s

13:00

, thereabout um . The alphabets actually emerged from two creole orthography

13:03

workshops that were held in saint lucia , one in january 1981

13:05

and the other in september

13:08

1982 . I

13:10

believe the writing

13:13

system has been developed through

13:15

. It was the efforts of

13:17

individual researchers from UWE

13:20

, actually , and the Université

13:22

Antille de la Guyane

13:24

, amitay Fouetide-Crayol from

13:27

Dominica and

13:41

the group d'études de recherche en espace crayolophone , and that group

13:43

was specifically from Martinique and Guadeloupe . So

13:46

they all decided to come together and

13:48

they created what we now have as the Crayola

13:50

writing system , which consists of

13:52

32 alphabets

13:54

, so a little more

13:56

than the English , what we're normally

13:58

used to right . And

14:02

the structure differs

14:04

from French in both grammar

14:06

and vocabulary . For

14:08

example , we can take verb

14:11

conjugation . In Creole it is

14:13

much more simpler than French . In

14:16

French , the verbs we

14:18

could look at the verb to be , for example

14:20

, and in the present tense it has multiple

14:23

forms like je

14:25

suis , tu es , il est

14:27

, nous sommes , vous êtes , ils

14:29

sont Notice how all of these things

14:31

changes . However , in Creole

14:34

, to be is just simply say

14:36

S-E , with an acute

14:38

accent on the E , and

14:40

it remains the same for all the

14:42

subjects , so sometimes

14:45

it can be omitted . In Creole

14:47

, for example , if the verb is followed

14:49

by an adjective

14:52

like , we could take um

14:54

the sentence they are hungry , right

14:57

, and it would be

14:59

your thing in creole

15:01

, right , but in french

15:03

it would be . So

15:07

. We can also use

15:09

like the marker to

15:11

to represent the present tense as

15:13

being ca in solutions-Louisian

15:16

Creole , right , so I

15:18

could be like I am

15:20

eating , and this in Creole

15:22

is moi ca manger , and

15:24

I'm speaking in the present continuous tense

15:26

moi ca manger , right

15:28

, so am here

15:31

, is our marker

15:34

which is called ca , is

15:41

our marker which is called K , and in French I

15:43

am eating , is je suis en train de manger . So Creole , it's like it's a , it's shorter

15:45

, so it's much more simple

15:48

. We could also take a look at

15:50

pronouns and how

15:52

it differentiates from French . For

15:54

example , we

15:56

would say for you , we

15:58

would use the word ou or zot

16:00

, and in French they

16:03

would use tu or vous . And

16:05

that's just for St Lucian , creole

16:08

, also for Martinique

16:10

, creole , dominica . But , however

16:12

, in some other Creoles they would use vous

16:15

as well , but they would drop the

16:17

s . In french the voo is spelled

16:19

v-o-u-s , but in

16:22

the creoles , where , uh

16:24

, they keep the voo , they

16:26

would just drop the s . So how you hear

16:28

it is how you spell it in creole , and

16:31

that's what makes a difference . We don't have silent

16:34

letters and these types of things

16:36

. Like it is , it's not . It doesn't really exist

16:38

. Right , there are certain

16:40

rules , certain exceptions around there , but it doesn't really

16:43

exist as much as in French and

16:45

so on thank

16:47

you for sharing that .

16:49

I think it helps to , like replicate

16:51

what we know about our history too , right . Right , as

16:53

you said , there are

16:55

ways that St Lucian Creole , for

16:57

instance , differs from French

16:59

by having certain letters or not

17:02

having certain letters , right , and

17:04

I think , when we think about these Creoles

17:07

as developing as oral languages

17:09

, right out of a

17:11

history of people who , you know

17:13

, very purposefully , weren't taught to read

17:16

and taught to write , you know , being

17:18

able to create a language in itself

17:20

, but do one that

17:22

can combine people

17:24

from various parts of the world as

17:27

a way of communication . But you

17:29

know , there are things that are definitely going

17:31

to differ as a result . Yes

17:33

, I agree , you highlighted

17:36

some of your various multilingual

17:38

skills , right , so

17:41

definitely thank you for doing that

17:43

. But I think , you know

17:45

, even in my own experiences

17:47

growing up and

17:49

being told , you know where it's okay

17:51

to speak Patois , right , I can do it at home , with

17:54

my family , et cetera , right , but don't necessarily

17:56

like go to school and do that

17:59

. And I think that in a large part

18:01

was , you know , due to , like , my mom's

18:03

own experiences migrating

18:05

to the US and you know , growing

18:07

up in Jamaica , coming to the US

18:10

and having a very I

18:12

wouldn't even say heavy , it's just , you know , it was her

18:14

accent , it

18:17

was how she spoke um as a child , and then , um , the way that

18:19

she was made to feel in school because of that

18:21

accent , etc . Right , even I

18:24

will , it goes off into a whole tangent . But like

18:26

they put my mom in like ESOL classes

18:28

, right , or in English , ell

18:30

, so English learning language classes , right

18:32

, as if Jamaicans are not speaking English

18:34

. But anyway , all that to say

18:37

what

18:39

has been your experiences

18:41

growing up as a multilingual

18:43

speaker , especially , you

18:45

know , given this impact of colonization

18:48

and and so , for those who may not

18:50

know also , you

18:52

are recent author of a book published

18:54

on Amazon , which I definitely will link for

18:56

our listeners . It's entitled An Introduction

18:59

to Quail Sent Lisi , and

19:02

so do let us know what has

19:04

been that experience for you as a multilingual

19:07

speaker and what motivated

19:09

you to also write your book .

19:11

So , to be honest , the ability

19:14

to navigate and

19:16

communicate in multiple languages has provided

19:18

me with a deeper

19:21

understanding of the

19:23

cultural nuances and historical

19:25

influences that shape

19:27

Creole right , and

19:35

the impact of colonization , which is very much evident . So

19:37

we have , like expressions , cuisine

19:39

, food , greetings and so on , being

19:42

able to speak French and

19:44

English . I'm noticing , you know , how

19:47

we say certain things and certain

19:49

things that we do , why

19:51

we do it , and so on , and a a lot

19:53

of those times it does lead back to colonization

19:56

. Basically , who colonized us ? And so

19:58

on . Right , so

20:01

there's the pro part of it , but also there's the con part of it

20:03

, where sometimes I've

20:06

heard that why

20:08

am I so proud to speak Creole , you

20:10

know , and that I shouldn't

20:13

be speaking it because it's

20:15

the language of the colonizers . So

20:17

there are people who think this way , or

20:19

that it grew out of , you

20:22

know , colonialism , which is bad

20:24

. So therefore , creole is bad and

20:26

I shouldn't be speaking it , you know . And

20:28

so it's this mentality that we still

20:30

have , unfortunately , but then in

20:33

my head I'm like that's

20:35

exactly why I should be speaking it

20:37

. There is so much power in

20:40

speaking the language formed by

20:42

my ancestors , who bled

20:44

to get this little freedom

20:46

that we have today for us . So

20:48

I'm looking at

20:50

it like why could I not hold

20:53

on to that and preserve and cherish

20:55

this ? It's absurd and disappointing

20:57

to think otherwise . So

20:59

, basically , as for my book

21:01

, I figured that because

21:04

I give Creole classes

21:07

, I should have a tangible

21:09

version to the online

21:11

classes . That would help people , because I'm taking

21:14

into account that sometimes people

21:16

would not always be able to be

21:18

available Right , and

21:20

so if they have a

21:23

guide or something that they could hold in

21:25

their hands and to always be able

21:27

to look back at this specific

21:30

thing , then that would be able to help

21:32

them look

21:35

back at this specific thing . Then that would be able to help them . And there are different

21:37

learners in this world , so maybe sometimes someone doesn't

21:39

want to have a class , they don't want to see some people

21:41

, they they don't want to do

21:43

this online thing , and you know

21:45

different reasons . So if

21:48

having the book could

21:50

be of aid to them , then why

21:52

not ? And it's a way to preserve

21:55

the language as well .

21:58

For sure . I

22:06

am definitely a proponent of

22:08

any ways that we can preserve

22:10

what are , you know , born to Caribbean

22:13

, born people in other parts

22:15

of the world US , canada

22:17

, england , wherever really

22:19

right , because we are all over the world

22:22

is

22:28

another way for those to maybe

22:30

connect with the language and

22:33

really , you know , study it in

22:35

a sense , to get that deeper understanding

22:37

that might not otherwise be available to

22:39

them . Exactly , I

22:54

love my next question because I'm always looking for ways for us to understand our histories

22:56

as they show up in popular culture . I think it is a powerful way for us to see ourselves

22:58

visualized , and you know that can really be done by anybody

23:01

, right ? Anybody can make a song

23:03

or make a social media post , as

23:05

we know , right ? And so

23:07

what are some of your favorite examples

23:09

, really , of how you've seen St

23:12

Lucian quail show up in

23:14

popular culture ?

23:16

That is such a great question and

23:18

for me it's

23:20

for sure the music . There

23:24

is definitely something about hearing

23:26

music being sung in

23:28

Creole that just does something

23:30

to me . You know we

23:33

have theater and drama

23:35

, different playwrights and

23:37

groups incorporating the Creole

23:40

dialogues in , you know , in literature , film

23:42

and television , festivals or

23:45

events in Creole and so on . But

23:47

it has to be the music for me

23:49

. It

23:56

has to be the music for me . And , um , one of my favorite Saint Lucian singers his name is Arthur

23:58

Allen and you should check him out sometimes . You know

24:00

he has music in Creole and I

24:02

absolutely love it . Even if

24:05

he incorporates just a few

24:07

lines , one word , whatever

24:09

it , he just has that

24:12

amazing voice , beautiful

24:14

, like it's just it's amazing . And so

24:16

when he sings , and he sings in Creole

24:19

, I'm just like wow , you

24:21

know , and not just him , but

24:24

there's a lot more people singing in Creole

24:26

and it's

24:29

just something that reaches me a lot more

24:31

on a different level , on a deeper level

24:33

.

24:34

I myself will definitely check out Arthur Allen

24:36

, but I will also make sure to include it

24:38

on our Strictly Facts syllabus

24:41

for all of our listeners who definitely

24:43

want to check out his music as well . Final

24:56

question that I think is very particular to the sort of situation in St

24:58

Lucia and possibly other parts of the French Caribbean as well , and so

25:00

it's evolved . You know it's not necessarily

25:02

the same throughout and hasn't been the same throughout

25:05

, but there are times in

25:07

our history , as we've outlined right

25:09

, where , you know , french is

25:11

looked at as the more favorable from

25:14

like a national perspective , as opposed

25:16

to Creole . Right . There

25:18

is an interesting landscape

25:20

though in St

25:22

Lucia where , while Creole isn't an

25:25

official language , it's , you know

25:27

, used in parliament , in education

25:29

, right , some of those like more federally

25:32

housed um avenues

25:34

. That's not necessarily the same throughout

25:37

all of the caribbean um

25:39

, certainly , you know , speaking from the

25:41

jamaican angle , for instance , like

25:44

patwa is not , you know that's

25:46

not how most schools are are

25:48

teaching children ? Right , it's in right

25:51

, a quote unquote , and I say that very

25:53

with quotes . Right , standard

25:56

English perspective , right . Yeah

25:59

so what are your hopes

26:01

for the future growth of

26:03

Coyote , given this

26:06

, you know , ability

26:08

of like the governments to start

26:11

capturing its importance through certain

26:13

things like education . Um

26:15

, how do you hope to see it really expand

26:17

from here ?

26:19

that by far , is my favorite

26:21

question . And um

26:24

, creole is just not getting the recognition

26:27

that it should be given

26:29

. Right , and my vision

26:31

for Creole is to elevate

26:34

its status to that of an

26:36

official language in St Usha and

26:39

the other Creole-speaking nations . I'm

26:42

really advocating for its

26:44

inclusion in the curriculum as

26:46

a language of study . What

26:49

I envision is

26:51

dedicated

26:53

Creole classes on the islands

26:55

, not just for speaking , but many

26:58

of us don't know how to write

27:00

Creole , so if

27:02

we're able to do this , it could foster a

27:05

culture of learning and participation

27:08

, particularly during like significant

27:10

events , like you know , our

27:12

Independence Day and national celebrations

27:15

and so on . Really

27:18

, my aspiration is for Creole to

27:20

be acknowledged and respected

27:22

as a legitimate language

27:25

. It's deserving

27:27

of recognition for its

27:29

cultural and historical significance

27:31

. I basically aim for

27:33

individuals to recognize the empowerment

27:36

that comes from embracing

27:39

their language and their heritage

27:41

. Positioned in Creole on

27:43

par with widely spoken

27:45

colonial languages , like we

27:47

said earlier , french , english

27:50

, spanish , portuguese , german and so

27:52

on we're taking these languages

27:54

where it's really the main languages

27:57

for us and we have our very

27:59

own language . That's just at the bottom and

28:01

it shouldn't be this way . So I'm hoping that , you

28:03

know , in the future we're

28:05

able to change that .

28:08

That was beautifully said , you know . I think that's

28:10

a perfect point to end on right . That

28:12

was beautifully said , you know , I think

28:14

that's a perfect point to end on right . Empower

28:21

us and who we are in our languages , so that

28:23

you know they're not looked at as a lesser version of these colonial languages . I

28:29

want to thank you so much for joining me for this episode , for sharing your wisdom

28:31

and expertise with us . I will definitely be sure to include not only your

28:33

social media handles for our listeners

28:35

, who you know maybe want to check out a

28:37

little bit more about Creole , whether that be

28:40

in St Lucia or other parts of the French

28:42

Caribbean , as well as

28:44

your book , an Introduction

28:46

to Creole , saint Lysi as well

28:49

. So thank you so much for joining

28:51

me . Thank you to our listeners

28:53

for tuning in . We really hope you enjoyed this

28:55

episode Little more . Thanks

28:59

for tuning in to Strictly Facts . Visit

29:01

strictlyfactspodcastcom for more

29:03

information from each episode . Follow

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29:10

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