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Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve

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to Stuff Mom Never Told You? From

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House Stepworks dot Com.

0:16

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

0:19

and I'm Caroline and on Stuff Mom

0:21

Never Told You. We have touched on a

0:23

number of aspects of parenting

0:26

and family life and sibling

0:29

dynamics. But a listener

0:31

wrote in with a really great suggestion that

0:34

we had not touched on at

0:36

all, which is, uh,

0:38

foster care totally different

0:41

kind of sort of emergency family

0:44

that a lot of kids in the United States and abroad

0:46

end up being placed in. UM. Foster

0:49

care is not meant to be a

0:52

long term situation for most kids.

0:54

The goal is to UM

0:56

get them into a safe place and then UM

0:59

have them end up in a in some kind of stable

1:01

home environment, preferably reunited

1:04

with their birth parents. But the

1:06

reality of the foster system

1:08

in the United States is

1:10

not quite so optimistic

1:14

right UM. As of September two

1:16

thousand nine, they were an estimated four

1:19

thousand, seven and seventy three

1:21

children in foster care. That's according

1:24

to the Child Welfare Information

1:26

Gateway from the Department of Health. And Human Human

1:28

Services, and just

1:31

under half of those

1:33

children had a case goal of reunification

1:36

with their families. And unfortunately,

1:38

not all children are reunited with their

1:40

birth families. Some are adopted into

1:42

their foster care families or some fine permanent

1:45

homes, but unfortunately a lot of

1:47

children in the system age out, which

1:50

means that they never found a permanent home

1:52

um. And so they are they don't

1:54

receive that that feeling of security and

1:56

permanence that is ideal. Right, they turn

1:59

eighteen and been though they have been essentially

2:02

wards of the state up until

2:04

then, they at that

2:06

point become legal adults and they

2:08

have really no support system

2:11

whatsoever. Um And we'll we'll get into that

2:13

a little bit later, but just to

2:15

clarify things, According

2:17

to the US government's definition of foster

2:20

care, we're talking about a twenty four hours

2:22

substitute care for children outside of their

2:24

own homes, which would include non relative

2:26

foster family homes, relative

2:28

foster family homes which should be living

2:31

with an aunt or an uncle for instance, group

2:33

homes, emergencies, shelters, residential

2:36

facilities, and pre adoptive homes.

2:40

Yes, and as far as the number of

2:42

kids entering and exiting every year UM

2:45

again. In fiscal year two thousand nine, UH,

2:48

two hundred and fifty five thousand, give

2:50

or take, children entered and

2:52

two hundred and seventy six thousand exited

2:55

foster care. And of

2:58

the children who left the system, in it

3:00

up being reunited with their parents, are primary

3:02

caretakers, were adopted,

3:04

and eleven percent were emancipated from

3:07

their primary caregivers. And just for a couple

3:09

more stats to give you an idea of the

3:11

foster population, it's

3:14

typically slightly more boys than girls

3:16

are in the foster system

3:19

in the US as of two thousand

3:21

nine. Those are the most recent stats we've got. UH.

3:23

It's fifty three percent mail versus

3:26

forty seven percent female. And

3:28

the median age of kids entering

3:30

foster care is nine point

3:32

seven years, and the average child

3:35

in a foster situation will move

3:37

through three placements.

3:39

And seven percent of those kids

3:41

in foster care will stay in the system

3:44

for five and a half years, whereas at the other end

3:46

of the spectrum will

3:49

stay in less than one month.

3:51

So there's such a wide range of

3:54

situations. But sadly, with a lot of the outcomes

3:56

that we found, there's

3:59

there there are a out of bright spots. No,

4:02

and I want to talk about a little bit about

4:04

where um, most of these

4:06

foster care uh, when most

4:08

of the foster children live. I didn't realize

4:11

that it's so concentrated. UM.

4:13

But according to Children's Rights dot Org, more

4:15

than half of the children in foster care live only

4:17

in nine states, which are California,

4:20

Florida, Illinois, Indiana,

4:22

Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania,

4:24

and Texas. Yeah. I didn't realize

4:27

that either. UM. And compensation

4:29

for foster parenting

4:31

is done on a state by state basis,

4:34

and I found it interesting that

4:36

California is one

4:39

of those highly concentrated states

4:41

because they have one of the biggest state

4:44

level problems with not fairly

4:47

compensating uh these foster

4:49

caregivers. For instance, UM. This

4:51

was a study conducted by Children's

4:54

Rights along with the National Foster Parent

4:56

Association and the University of Maryland

4:58

School of Social Work in two thousand seven,

5:01

and for a two year old in

5:04

the foster system, the foster parents

5:06

would be reimbursed four d and twenty five

5:08

dollars per month. When

5:10

they went in and actually calculated the

5:12

cost of living for or caregiving

5:15

for that two year old, the

5:17

study found that they should be paying the state should be

5:19

paying them sixty percent more

5:23

more at a rate of six five

5:26

dollars. And that will go up. And that's just for a

5:28

two year old. If you take it in a sixteen year old,

5:30

the cost of living goes up even higher. And

5:33

probably for that reason. In two thousand

5:35

nine, the California Court of Appeals

5:37

ruled that the state's money compensating

5:41

foster parents is so low that it violated

5:44

federal child welfare law. Yeah,

5:46

it was illegal and insufficient. And

5:49

according to The l A Times, writing about this

5:51

UM, the number of children placed

5:53

with families had plummeted as costs rose

5:56

and fewer families were willing to take in children. So

5:58

not compensating family is enough for

6:00

the foster care they provide is directly

6:03

affecting how many families take in children.

6:05

Right, And we should say that this

6:07

podcast is going to focus more on the situation

6:10

for the kids rather than how the

6:13

any kind of training or process that parents

6:15

go into to uh to take kids

6:18

into their homes. UM. And

6:21

I guess before we go further, maybe we should talk a little

6:23

bit about how the foster

6:25

care system in the United States came about.

6:29

Indeed, references to it go

6:31

all the way back to the Old Testament in the Talmud

6:33

were caring for dependent children was established

6:35

as a duty under the law, so it

6:38

wasn't something that people never thought about.

6:40

Taking in children was was part of

6:42

as as was taking care of widows.

6:45

Um. The English poor law in

6:48

the sixteenth century lead to more stringent

6:51

regulation, and in fifteen sixty two those

6:53

laws allowed placement of poor children into

6:55

indentured service until they came of

6:57

age, which doesn't sound

6:59

like a a precursor to the foster care system,

7:02

but but it is. Um the

7:04

practice actually followed Europeans to America

7:06

and was the beginning of placing children in homes.

7:08

And then for a little historical fact, in sixteen

7:11

thirty six, Benjamin Eaton became

7:14

the first foster child on US

7:17

soil, although I guess it was not technically US

7:20

soil obviously back then, but the

7:22

first person, you know, first kid in

7:24

the region that was to be known as,

7:27

yes, the United States of America. But

7:29

it wasn't really until Charles Loring

7:32

Brace in the eighteen thirties

7:35

that the foster movement in the United

7:37

States really took off. He was

7:39

the founder of the Children's Aid Society,

7:42

and he came up with this idea of

7:44

taking um, I guess

7:46

indigent children from the streets

7:49

of New York to move them

7:51

to the Midwest and the West

7:54

because of the new train lines. And

7:56

he was like, we could take these kids from the city

7:58

streets, get them out to what

8:00

we're called free foster homes in

8:03

the Midwest, and they could they

8:05

could farm, they could be out on a land and be in

8:07

a much healthier environment, right

8:10

he Um. He definitely thought that raising

8:12

a child took more than just you know, paying

8:14

for them to eat. They needed gainful

8:17

work. Um, they needed a supportive,

8:19

wholesome family environment. And so yeah,

8:21

he advertised in the South and West for families

8:24

willing to take in children, and this was really

8:26

the beginning of UM institutional

8:28

care. Um. He he didn't want children

8:31

to be stunted. But he also thought that there

8:33

was a bit of a poor immigrant

8:35

problem in New York as he saw it, and definitely

8:38

wanted to be part of not only supporting these children

8:40

to have better lives, but sort of cleaning up the

8:42

streets of New York. Um.

8:44

Yeah, between eighteen fifty three and nineteen

8:47

twenty nine, more than one hundred and fifty thousand

8:49

abandoned, abused, and orphaned children

8:51

were taken by train from

8:53

New York City and shipped to families on

8:55

farms across the country, both to to be farm

8:58

hands, to get out in nature or get

9:00

off the streets. And although

9:02

these trains were referred to as orphan trains,

9:05

many weren't actually orphans but were actually surrendered

9:07

by their families. And while

9:10

transporting these these kids across

9:13

the country might seem uh,

9:15

pretty controversial by today's standards,

9:17

this really was a revolutionary option to

9:20

orphan asylums and alms houses,

9:22

which were where those kids might end up

9:25

otherwise and they wouldn't be able to learn any kind

9:27

of trade and typically would not be

9:29

treated very well. UM.

9:32

And one side note to the Children's

9:34

Aid Society and the work that Charles Loring

9:36

Brace did UM. One of

9:38

their projects was starting up mother's meetings

9:41

for poorer women in New

9:43

York City. UM and it was the forerunner

9:46

to p t A because these teachers would

9:49

teach mothers basically

9:51

how to be better mothers.

9:53

And this was taking place I think they first started in

9:56

eighteen sixty three. So not

9:58

only was h is braced

10:00

trying to get kids off the street, but also

10:03

rehabilitate entire families,

10:05

which is a theme that is still

10:08

um, you know, idealized in the foster

10:10

care system that we have in place

10:12

today. But um it's

10:14

a it's a hard, um

10:17

and challenging goal to meet

10:20

in reality, right And you could

10:22

say that it's a challenge because out

10:25

of home placement is associated with disruptions

10:27

and attachment. And this is according to

10:29

a University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics

10:32

analysis from two thousand. They

10:34

found that losses and lack of permanence

10:36

undermine a child's attempt to form a secure

10:39

attachment with a primary caregiver.

10:41

So children who are you know, shuttled around from

10:43

foster care home to foster home, or

10:45

even if they're simply taken

10:48

moved one time from their biological

10:50

family to a foster family. That

10:52

upsets a child's stability,

10:55

and even visits with parents can be upsetting

10:57

to young children and disruptive to development

10:59

if they are trying to um get

11:02

used to their foster family. And

11:04

the longer than a child stays in foster

11:06

care, the less of the chance they have of reuniting

11:09

with birth parents and along with

11:11

that, you'll see often an

11:13

increase in behavioral problems.

11:16

Now, the behavioral problems for kids

11:18

in foster care, obviously are are

11:21

largely predicted by behavioral problems and

11:23

abuse that they might have suffered going into

11:26

the foster system. But that issue

11:28

of stability is

11:30

is such a big determinant of

11:33

outcomes for kids in this system.

11:35

In a two thousand seven m I T study,

11:37

these abused children who were placed in foster

11:40

care were found to be far more likely

11:42

than other children to commit crimes, drop

11:44

out of school, join welfare, experienced

11:46

substance abuse problems, or enter

11:49

the homeless population. And another

11:51

study found that UM among the

11:53

youth formerly in foster

11:55

care, the twelve month rate of panic

11:57

disorder was three times that of the general

12:00

population, and along with it, they

12:02

had a seven times higher rate of drug dependence,

12:05

seven times high rate of bulimia, and twice

12:07

the rate of alcohol dependence.

12:09

So you have all of these negative behaviors

12:12

going on and UM. There

12:14

was one study that was cited in a

12:16

presentation from d Wilson, whose executive

12:19

director of the Northwest Institute for Children

12:21

and Families, and she

12:24

references this study

12:26

comparing maltreated kids

12:28

moved from their homes into some

12:30

kind of foster situation to maltreated

12:33

kids who remain in their home and

12:35

it possibly still abusive home environment

12:37

but there, but they're there. They're obviously

12:39

have case workers that are coming in and trying

12:42

to to manage the in home environment. And

12:45

the kids who are moved out of their

12:47

homes actually failed worse

12:49

behaviorally, which underscores to these

12:51

researchers just how

12:54

important that home relationship

12:56

and the parental relationship really

12:59

is to understand how to service

13:02

those children and getting them out of abusive

13:05

or neglectful environments while not

13:07

robbing them of what the obviously crucial

13:10

role of a stable home environment

13:12

is still a giant puzzle

13:14

for researchers. Yeah,

13:16

and the recommendation out of a

13:19

part of a Casey National Alumni

13:21

study, and they refer to youth formerly

13:23

in foster care as alumni. One of the recommendations

13:26

is to increase access to mental health screening

13:28

and treatment for youth in foster care

13:30

and those who have been

13:32

adopted out or aged out, because

13:35

they just tend to have more

13:37

of these problems that we've talked about, a

13:39

lot of it comes from that disruption in the family

13:42

life and the connections to their family well

13:44

and according to the National Survey of Child

13:46

and Adolescent Well Being UM,

13:48

it seems that infants and toddlers actually

13:50

fair worst on developmental

13:53

measures after eighteen months in

13:55

care. And that might be because the younger

13:58

the population, the foster population,

14:00

the more vulnerable that they've been to UM

14:03

caregiver mistreatment before

14:05

they are taken out of the home. Right.

14:08

There was one UM instance

14:10

where what study was it that we read where

14:13

a guy was talking about how he had gone

14:15

through the system, but he it took him

14:17

years before he realized that his

14:19

his last family, his permanent family. They

14:22

were not going to hurt him or abuse him.

14:24

But he had been exposed to so many different

14:26

homes where he had experienced abuse that

14:29

he was just he was used to it, and

14:31

he expected to be treated poorly by families

14:33

who took him in UM. And there's

14:36

also some scholarship indicating

14:38

the kinship care, as in moving

14:41

children out of maybe home with their

14:43

parents to a relative is

14:45

more stable than foster care. And again

14:47

there it seems to be that that connection to

14:50

the family UM. But I'm

14:52

sure it is a huge problem for these

14:55

case workers who obviously they

14:57

want to ensure the best

15:00

treatment for the children. UM.

15:02

But once you break those ties, you

15:05

know, what do you what do you do? I'm sure it's it's it's

15:08

difficult all around. Yeah, And there's

15:10

definitely an effort to maintain

15:12

the family ties. It's it's not a

15:14

quick simple process to

15:16

put a child in the foster care system. According

15:19

to the Child Welfare Information Gateway,

15:21

before a decision is made to remove a child,

15:24

child welfare staff must make reasonable

15:26

efforts to safely maintain

15:28

children with their family and that could include

15:31

providing support services,

15:33

having court intervention, and that court

15:35

intervention depends on the risk

15:37

to the child, whether it's low to moderate

15:40

or no risk or or moderate

15:42

too high. And like I said,

15:44

it's not a quick process. Claims of abuse or

15:46

neglect have to be investigated, and if

15:48

the child is at low to moderate risk, referrals

15:51

may be made to community based or volunteer

15:53

in home child welfare services.

15:55

So definitely maintaining UM

15:58

the family and then

16:00

from moderate to high risk children, family

16:02

may be offered in home services or may seek

16:04

court intervention and the court may eventually

16:07

order removal. UH. And once

16:09

children are placed, we should

16:11

mention that adoption does

16:13

happen. UM foster parents

16:16

do have the ability to adopt

16:19

foster kids. It used to be before in the

16:21

nineteen seventies it was discouraged

16:24

for fear of losing good foster families

16:26

and this idea that older kids

16:29

are unadoptable. Which all of this reminds

16:31

me that we do have yet to do podcasts

16:34

on adoption, which we promised

16:36

will get around two UM.

16:38

But since then the

16:41

pathway for foster care

16:43

adoption has been opened up a

16:45

lot more. And in two thousand

16:47

two, for example, twenty

16:50

seven thousand, or fifty three percent of

16:52

the fifty three thousand children who are adopted

16:54

directly from foster care that year were

16:56

adopted by their foster parents. There

16:59

are quite a lot of benefits

17:02

to having a foster family adopt their foster child.

17:04

If it comes to that UM foster parents

17:06

have a greater knowledge of the child's experiences.

17:09

It provides more consistency for the child.

17:12

The parents know what to expect, you

17:14

know, if the child has any it has you know,

17:16

previous issues, maybe coming from an abusive

17:18

family or having UM drug or alcohol

17:20

dependence. And they're familiar

17:22

with the birth families. So if if the child

17:25

you know if their ties there, if the child is trying to maintain

17:27

ties or the family wants to maintain ties, they're

17:29

they're familiar with the family as well, And

17:32

this would be a a good time to to mention

17:35

biological children of foster

17:37

parents, because that was one question that I had, was,

17:40

UM, how the foster system affects

17:42

you know, kids who are are born and raised

17:44

in those foster homes.

17:47

And there actually has not been that

17:49

much research done on it, and there was

17:52

there was one outcome study that

17:54

we did run across. It was it was a pretty

17:56

small sample of interviews

17:59

with kids who had, you know, the biological children

18:01

who had grown up UM with foster

18:03

parents. And not surprisingly,

18:06

there are some pretty unique challenges

18:08

that go along with that. UM. For instance,

18:10

they found that us some biological children

18:13

resented the foster children for having talking

18:15

about their own family UM. Some

18:17

foster children resisted the emotional

18:19

adoption into the foster

18:22

family, which could cause tension with

18:24

the biological kids, and some biological

18:27

children noted strong feelings of being less important

18:29

to their parents because their needs were perceived

18:32

to be less great and and

18:34

they they even included this this

18:36

diagram of sort of a

18:39

hierarchy that can sometimes

18:41

just naturally evolve within foster

18:44

families between the needs of biological

18:46

children versus the foster children, and how

18:48

parents can um you

18:50

know, service all of those things

18:53

while maintaining healthy

18:55

relations between all of the kids, right, And it

18:57

depends on how long the foster child is

18:59

with the family UM

19:01

as far as how close they get with all the members

19:04

of the family. And some children reported

19:06

in this study they interviewed, they talked to four

19:08

adults and five children

19:10

like still children biological children

19:13

UM and some reported that while

19:15

the foster child was taken in, he or she did

19:17

not become part of the nucleus of the family.

19:20

And there were several reasons given, some of

19:22

those being maybe the family is burned

19:24

out. The kids are feeling burned out from from

19:26

caring taking in someone and caring for them,

19:29

And some parents operate this way to protect the biological

19:31

children and to compensate for all the time and focus

19:34

on the foster children. So some families might just

19:36

be trying so hard to balance you

19:38

know, here are biological children, but we've also

19:40

promised to take care of this other child. But

19:43

it seems like for for foster

19:45

kids in particular, the

19:47

biggest risk factor is that issue

19:49

of aging out of the system. This is

19:51

happening to roughly two

19:54

kids every year who are in the US

19:57

who are turning eighteen, and uh,

19:59

they don't really have anywhere to

20:01

turn. A lot of them might end up in a homeless

20:03

shelter on their eighteenth birthday because of that. Yeah.

20:06

Um, going back to Children's

20:09

Rights dot Org, they talked about children

20:12

aging out of the system without a permanent family,

20:14

and like Kristen just said, twelve

20:17

to thirty percent struggled with homelessness

20:19

after they aged out. And this is looking at several different

20:21

studies, which is why the range of percentages

20:24

is there. Um, forty six did

20:27

not complete high school and twenty five to fifty

20:29

five were found to be unemployed.

20:32

And one thing that I found, um

20:35

interesting is the high rate of young women who

20:37

ended up pregnant within twelve to eighteen months

20:39

of leaving foster care, which is such a short

20:42

a short time. And also,

20:44

uh, not surprisingly, fifty percent

20:47

experienced extreme financial hardship.

20:49

Yeah, if you don't have anyone supporting

20:51

you, I mean, it would be hard to get through

20:54

college and then finding a job

20:56

afterwards. So we have painted

20:59

a pretty dire picture of

21:01

foster care in the US UM

21:03

on a more positive note. To to end

21:06

things maybe on an upswing. The

21:08

government has tried to address

21:12

some of these problems UM in

21:14

recent years. The Pew Commission

21:17

on Children in Foster Care, sponsored

21:19

by the Putitable Trust, underwent

21:23

a two thousand four year long

21:25

intensive study of the foster care system

21:28

in the US, and as a result of

21:31

the recommendations that they made UM

21:34

from that research, in October

21:36

two thousand eight, Fostering Connections

21:38

to Success and an Increasing Adoptions

21:41

Act was passed unanimously by

21:43

Congress and signed into law

21:45

by President Bush and UM.

21:47

That piece of legislation was

21:50

the most comprehensive foster care revision

21:53

that the Congress had made in decades.

21:56

Um and An authorized federal resources to allow

21:58

more children to leave foster care for safe, permanent

22:01

homes with family members, and

22:03

it also allowed for provisions

22:05

to support the adoption of children from foster

22:07

care, especially older youth and those

22:09

with special needs. And then finally,

22:12

it paved the way for tribal governments to

22:14

be able to receive foster care funds

22:16

directly from the federal government, thus

22:19

ensuring that more American, Indian, and Alaskan

22:21

Native children can remain with their own

22:23

communities, because that has been a

22:26

huge problem of Native American

22:28

children being plucked from their

22:30

tribal communities and sent away to private

22:32

group homes. Right, So, I want to hear from

22:35

our listeners who have been involved in

22:37

the system. Do we have any social

22:39

workers out there who can comment on some of these

22:41

statistics. Do we have people who have been through the system

22:44

themselves, or how about foster families out

22:46

there, right, because like we said,

22:48

we're really talking about and focusing on

22:50

the situation for

22:53

the kids. Um, So foster

22:56

parents out there. I mean, I can't imagine

22:58

that it is an easy job and it's certainly

23:00

does not come with um

23:03

huge financial reward

23:05

um. So, so please anyone involved who

23:07

can give us some insight because we've been going

23:10

through a lot of statistics and a lot of studies,

23:13

a lot of which you're predistressing. It's pretty

23:15

grim, I've got to say. But let us know

23:17

your thoughts. As always, mom stuff at Discovery

23:20

dot com is where you can send your

23:23

thoughts, or you can always head over to Facebook

23:26

and leave us a comment up there, or

23:28

you can tweet us if you are very succinct

23:31

at Mom's Stuff podcast. We

23:33

got a couple of letters right now to

23:35

read. Okay,

23:40

this is from Christie. The subday

23:42

line is why I exercise,

23:45

And now I still really want to know why people

23:47

exercise because I need some sort of motivation.

23:50

Anyway, she says, just finish your episode about

23:52

exercise. I have two reasons why I

23:54

get up at three thirty am

23:56

to juice and then go running up down my

23:59

three and a half fear old daughter and my ten

24:01

month old son. Not only does it give me the

24:03

energy to make it through the day, including bath and bedtime,

24:06

but I'm setting a good example for them both, particularly

24:08

my daughter. It paid off a couple of weeks ago

24:11

when we ordered some new shoes for Lily. When

24:13

they arrived and she put them on, she ran around exclaiming,

24:15

I have mommy writting shoes. When

24:18

I am still so amazed by the fact

24:20

that she makes up at three thirty in the morning. That's

24:22

the middle of the night. If I roll

24:25

over at three thirty in the morning and I look at the clock,

24:27

I'm like, oh, thank god, it's so

24:29

much time to sleep. And she's a mother. Yeah,

24:31

good for her. She's exercise

24:34

thing does give you more energy to make it to the day, but

24:36

I need the energy to exercise first, right

24:39

exactly, and the morning exercises

24:41

is a big hurdle for me. Well,

24:43

I've got one here from Justine about our

24:45

episode on Martha Stewart, and she says,

24:48

I just had to write in about Martha Stewart to

24:50

stay hecky. Yes, she is an excellent

24:52

role model. She is just as

24:54

much of a feminist as Hillary Clinton. The

24:57

same right to equal opportunity that allows

24:59

a woman to be a world political leader

25:01

or marine, says, she can

25:03

also choose to pour her heart into cooking,

25:05

cleaning, crafting, and entertaining

25:07

or anything else she likes. The freedom

25:09

is in the choosing. Does Martha sometimes

25:12

go a bit crazy? Yes, her

25:14

legions of adoring fans will tell you that that's

25:16

what lifts her from entertaining to sublime.

25:19

She certainly doesn't do this work to please a man

25:21

or fit a mole, and it seems to me that

25:23

she does it for the sake of making a wonderful

25:26

life for herself and those she loves.

25:28

And what is more admirable than that.

25:31

Indeed, Justine, so again,

25:33

if you've got anything to send our way, you can email

25:36

us mom Stuff at Discovery dot

25:38

com. You can find us on Facebook, and

25:40

you can follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

25:43

Of course, you can check out the blog during the week.

25:46

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25:57

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