0:05

Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to

0:07

STUFFMO never told you protection of I Heart Radio's House

0:09

to effort. We

0:19

have something pretty pretty special a

0:21

little different today. Yeah, yeah,

0:23

yeah. As you know, we've

0:26

been trying to shout out listeners

0:29

and other people we think are doing

0:31

cool things at the end of episodes and podcasts,

0:34

pasting podcast which Samantha

0:36

has been spearheading, um,

0:39

and we that

0:41

kind of came simultaneously

0:44

with another topic we want to talk about

0:46

and a podcast that we shouted out because

0:49

as we record this, not as you hear it in

0:52

classics sminty fashion of course. Um.

0:54

It is a Native American Heritage month November.

0:57

I thought we're a little closer all the time from

0:59

now than we have before. Yeah,

1:01

we're closing in, although

1:03

a little better now. I think it's just our

1:06

thing. Maybe maybe we should just stick with it.

1:08

Um. But this

1:10

is so confusing because we have

1:12

the episode we're talking about asn't published it, but you should

1:14

have heard it by now. Somebody we shouted

1:17

out, um has an amazing podcast, some

1:19

kind of brown podcast. Yes, Natalie Evans

1:21

is doing a fantastic job with some

1:23

kind of Brown. She's been on I think a year and a half. So

1:25

what she said, it's a podcast about

1:28

multi racial, biracial and

1:31

many multicultural ideas behind

1:34

and what it's like to be in that life or in

1:36

that moment. However, she identifies

1:38

as Indigenous Black Um

1:41

and she is very, very obviously passionate

1:43

about indigenous and Native Um

1:46

people and wanted to have their stories told,

1:48

which is I think it is very important as well.

1:51

And of course I mentioned a couple of times because

1:53

you know, I don't hear it often, but she

1:55

does include in a racial adoption as

1:58

a part of our conversation too, and loved

2:00

that because and I think I've talked about

2:02

as often. I feel really confused

2:04

about my identity a lot of the times because

2:07

my identity is conflicting to what I grew

2:09

up with with who I am, my actual ethnicity,

2:11

And so what she's doing is just fantastic.

2:13

And also she's looking into the LGBTQ plus

2:16

world and being inclusive, and

2:18

I love all of the things, and I feel

2:21

like it's very much in the spirit of smenting and what we

2:23

want to do and what we want to talk about. And

2:25

yeah, so when we saw her podcast,

2:28

and I was very excited about she was

2:30

doing UM red November, which

2:33

was highlighting the hashtag m M I W or

2:36

the missing and murdered Indigenous

2:38

women, and talking about those conversations

2:40

and trying to bring a lot more highlights than I

2:42

know you did an episode as well. So

2:45

it just flit in a line perfectly that

2:48

we try to connect and she was

2:50

so willing and so we were so

2:52

excited to have her on the show. Yeah.

2:55

And one of the things we

2:58

asked of her would be was

3:00

to talk about some some women

3:03

famous, well maybe not famous, but they

3:05

should be famous Indigenous women, UM,

3:07

that we we all should know more about.

3:09

And she was great adalyst,

3:12

Like how many I could go on and

3:14

on, UM. But we do want to say before

3:16

we get into this, just a general disclaimer,

3:19

and we do mention this in the interview, but history

3:22

is tricky when it comes

3:25

to I mean just in general

3:27

honestly, UM, but also when it comes

3:29

to colonization in the United States,

3:31

sources can be hard to come by.

3:33

And also UM pronunciations,

3:36

Uh yeah, because there's

3:38

no source like

3:41

today peek

3:43

behind the scenes. What I do. I

3:45

go to a pronunciation website.

3:47

If it's not on there, then I go to YouTube.

3:50

And try to find somebody saying whatever

3:53

it is that doesn't necessarily

3:55

exist for for the women,

3:58

um that we're going to talk about, so trying

4:01

our best. Feel free

4:03

to write is if you know, Yeah, I feel

4:05

free to write in and let us let us know that us

4:08

give us a gentle correction. Um.

4:15

But yeah, let's let's hop into the interview.

4:18

Ah. My name is Natalie Evans and

4:21

I'm the host of some kind of Brown podcast.

4:24

My podcast is mostly about mixed

4:26

in my multi racial life, cultural

4:29

issues and current events that are going

4:31

on, and exploring what it really means to

4:35

my multicultural or multi

4:38

racial sometimes bi racial

4:41

ethnic background isn't what that really means.

4:43

So we cover everything from

4:45

reconnecting the cultures to accepting

4:49

some of the negatives

4:51

or how to deal with things like you

4:53

know, the normal things like people putting their

4:56

hands in your hair and not

4:58

having boundaries. It's there's a

5:00

lot of things that kind of fall under under

5:03

that umbrella. But for

5:05

me specifically, I

5:07

am reconnecting with my native

5:10

Indigenous side, so I

5:12

get to document that through the

5:14

podcast and it led

5:16

to my Red November projects, which

5:18

I think is probably found me and what

5:21

we're talking about today right, and could you explain

5:23

a little bit about your Red November project, because yes,

5:25

that is one of the things I was like, Oh, this is awesome.

5:30

Uh, The November is

5:32

an actute passion project for me. It's

5:34

something that I wanted to do since I started.

5:37

I said that, like, I've had a podcast for a long time.

5:39

I had it for a year and a half. But it

5:43

is a series

5:45

that focuses on the m

5:47

M i W or Missing a Murdered Indigenous

5:50

Women, Girls two Spirit people

5:52

movements, and it

5:55

kind of approaches this systemic

5:57

problem from the angle of different

6:00

Native, non binary and

6:03

women in our different perspectives.

6:05

I talked to people from all different

6:08

walks of life and how it affects

6:10

us and some of the problems when

6:12

we're looking at the end my W movement went

6:14

so necessary, and the

6:17

fact that we can't find any information

6:19

on the women who are missing, and the

6:21

fact that we very

6:24

very rarely do any of these cases

6:27

or women get any kind of publicity. It's

6:30

something that's very painful and

6:32

something that is slowly coming to light.

6:34

And then really excited to see that people

6:37

are listening. Awesome,

6:39

UM, and we have you on here

6:41

today because I would say the work

6:44

that you do is fantastic and important,

6:46

and we wanted you to kind of have a

6:49

platform here with us to talk

6:51

to us about these different fights.

6:53

I guess is what the best way we can put it? UM

6:55

and movements that you guys are you are specifically

6:57

pushing through and trying to get noticed for, which is aesome

7:00

in your own podcasts which try to

7:02

highlight um, the different

7:05

cultures as well as the difficulties

7:07

and the issues of being multiracial,

7:09

biracial, all those things. And you had even included

7:12

UM international adoption, which applies to me.

7:14

You know, it's very excited to see

7:16

that, which we highlighted your podcast

7:19

on well episode that's coming

7:21

that we haven't published yet but has

7:23

already recorded there exist

7:26

publicly, I

7:29

didn't acknowledge it's happening. UM.

7:31

So today I asked

7:33

you to come on because it is UH Native

7:35

American Heritage Month as

7:38

we record that as we're recording, because yeah, by the time

7:40

this is published is over, we're a little

7:42

late. But to talk about

7:44

it always good to talk about, yes, as we

7:46

should UM. And so you

7:48

came on and you actually sent us a giant

7:51

list which I love, UH with the

7:53

things that you want to talk about people you want to talk about,

7:55

so let's go ahead and get started. Yeah,

7:57

okay, all right. You

8:00

told me that originally you were thinking about talking about

8:02

historical Native figures,

8:04

particularly women or two spirit people

8:07

and do you say massive lists,

8:09

But this is just a tiny,

8:12

tiny, little list of amazing

8:14

women that you can look into. In

8:18

a lot of Native Native cultures, women

8:21

are kind of the bear bearers

8:23

of tradition. A lot

8:25

of these women who

8:28

stand out in history were also warriors.

8:31

Most of the tribes are not gillennial, which

8:33

means that plans and traditions have passed down

8:35

from the mother. It's

8:38

something that was very women were

8:40

very equal or sometimes

8:42

a little higher in certain tribes.

8:46

But as colonization

8:49

and the boarding schools and

8:51

residential schools tried to

8:54

westernize the culture, that's one of

8:56

the things that kind of leaked in what is

8:58

being worked on out the

9:01

Colardine is Showny Confederacy

9:04

or the Iroquois Confederacy.

9:07

They are probably one

9:09

of the most matrimonial

9:13

groups that I've heard of as

9:17

a group of nations.

9:19

They just have more female

9:23

led traditions. What

9:25

was what are some of those traditions. One

9:28

of them like I said, is clans

9:30

passed down from the mother. So

9:33

if your mother was born in one

9:35

plan and the fathers and another,

9:38

the mother's fans kind of like last names

9:40

with different They

9:43

also have a lot of medicine

9:46

as a lot of women who are famous

9:48

for being medicine women's So

9:52

those are two of the biggest things. Women as

9:54

leaders and warriors and

9:57

mothers. That's just a very revered

10:00

position in Native culture. So

10:02

yeah, let's go ahead and talk about some of these women. You're

10:04

right, it's not a very vast last list. It should

10:06

be way way way more. There are obviously way way

10:09

way more, But for her time and purposes,

10:11

let's start with some of the big figures

10:14

and names that you want to talk about. Okay,

10:18

we have to Purrina Buffalo

10:20

calf Road, Woman's

10:22

Perna Elizabeth want

10:24

to make her. Of

10:27

course, I can't pronounce the for

10:29

a Trovic. The Polish

10:32

sounding name was all the names I

10:35

could not find the plantation of her

10:37

thinking names, so unfortunately can't

10:40

say that one as Tish

10:43

Callista and Madonna studer

10:45

Hawk. They're all from different

10:49

groups, and actually

10:51

two of them on opposite side,

10:54

which is kind of interesting. But

10:58

Toy Parina is there for person

11:00

on my list, and she is of

11:03

the tongue of the tribe located

11:05

in the Los Angeles basin. And there's

11:08

a little bit of controversy over what the

11:10

tribe is called, because once they're

11:12

not nationally recognized, and two

11:18

the government called

11:20

the tribe something else. It's been very interesting.

11:23

Colonization is a problem for

11:25

records. But

11:28

she was a medicine woman who opposed Spanish

11:31

rule. When she was

11:33

nine the Spanish colonizers invaded. It

11:36

is colonized. There's too strong words. I

11:39

don't know, okay, uh,

11:44

I don't like to call it. There's a

11:46

group of people who are using colonizers

11:49

to talk about current people, and

11:51

I think that's a little too harsh of

11:53

a narrative. We're trying to talk about inclusivity

11:56

and awareness and education. But

11:59

these are actual colonizers. So little

12:02

colonizer good, okay.

12:06

They made it their goal, of course, to convert

12:08

the people and erased their cultural practice

12:11

days. I'm sure

12:13

at the like four pages and everyone's

12:15

history books makes it clear

12:18

why the pornies of Americans

12:20

needed to learn the Western Way, and

12:23

any attempts to this assimilation or

12:26

conversion resulted in our speeding

12:28

torture and they seeven be killed.

12:31

Things reached they're breaking point when traditional

12:34

dances were banned and toy print and

12:36

helped unite six villagers to attack

12:38

the San Gabriel Mission. Even

12:41

though their attacks failed, toy Prina

12:43

was seen as a witch. She was

12:45

just died in the end. She was

12:48

baptized and exiled. I

12:50

can only imagine against her will. But

12:53

she is still a figure of bravery

12:56

and leadership and very

12:58

celebrated. There's a play based

13:00

on her. According to the research

13:03

I found, there is a play about her life.

13:06

Um, and that was not surprising. Yeah,

13:09

premiered at the San Gabriel Mission

13:11

Playhouse in and towards

13:14

California in um

13:18

and also apparently there's a short film about her life

13:21

and a book

13:23

called Zoro has an homage

13:26

to her by Isabelle Allende

13:29

Allende. Yes, yeah,

13:33

so, um she's not

13:35

someone unfortunately I had never heard

13:37

of her both right, I haven't either. But I

13:40

like that there's increasing

13:42

awareness about about

13:44

her and that there's this art being made about

13:47

her. I

13:49

have seen a lot of artworks that are that

13:53

have been made in that I think. Unfortunately,

13:56

unless you're looking for her, mostly

13:59

good people in Los Angeles based

14:01

in or in that area no occur. And that's

14:03

about it, um,

14:06

which is the case sometimes.

14:08

But I don't know all

14:12

of these women. Their stories are like their steet.

14:15

You read about them. On the

14:17

one hand, you feel a bunch of pride from

14:21

reading about their strengths and the things that they were able

14:23

to do. But at the same time, we

14:25

kind of know how this story goes. Yeah,

14:30

and it's much just been a romanticize. The truth

14:32

of the matter is, it's pretty horrifying,

14:35

the narrative in it. All

14:38

right. So the next woman you

14:40

had on your list with Buffalo calf Road Woman,

14:42

which is an intense name, and

14:46

that is their only name, it

14:50

is. There is a her

14:53

name in Northern Cheyenne. I can't I

14:55

couldn't find how to pronounce it. But she is of

14:58

the Northern Cheyenne tribe. And

15:01

if you've heard of the battle a little big

15:03

born m I don't

15:05

know, but um

15:08

me a differing

15:10

in the n spool. So I'm fancy,

15:15

super fancy, super fancy. Uh,

15:19

but yeah, you should have heard about the blow cast

15:21

bread Woman. If you don't know by name,

15:24

you probably have heard of Lieutenant Colonel

15:27

fluster. Yeah

15:29

yeah, I don't really. Yeah, so even

15:32

if you're on the bottle, you know him. And she was the one who

15:34

knocked him off of his course before he died.

15:37

Wow, I shouldn't

15:39

be proud of that, but I kind of am. Come

15:43

on now

15:45

that I should celebrate anyone's death.

15:50

Well, this is not actually her first displaced

15:52

prowess as a warrior. She also

15:55

fought in the Battle of the Rosebud, and

15:58

the Cheyenne called the battle the

16:01

battle with the Woman saved

16:04

her brother, I believe, because

16:07

they were losing and her brother, the

16:09

chief comes in Sight, was injured

16:12

and she's turned her horse around

16:14

gallop both felt the deep of the

16:16

fighting and saved her brother.

16:19

The Lakota and Cheyenne, who are fighting

16:22

together joined forces under crazy

16:24

Horse, were inspired

16:27

by her bravery and turned around and won

16:30

the battle a little big horn. She

16:33

also fought alongside her husband's

16:35

black Coyote, and after

16:37

the battle, she and her family were captured,

16:39

unfortunately and relocated.

16:42

But like she's another woman who's

16:44

fighting spirit is an inspiration for

16:48

some of us Native women and

16:50

people in general. She's

16:53

such a boss. She went through all these

16:55

things, she fought in these battles it.

16:58

She proved her prows warrior and

17:01

her husband Ryle and jail. She

17:04

died from diphtheria or malaria.

17:06

We're not sure which, Like, after everything

17:09

she's been through, that's going to take her down

17:11

really, But I mean this kind of sounds about

17:14

right as you come through that

17:16

type of colonization and and the diseases

17:19

that was brought by

17:21

those types of people. Um, that had actually

17:24

killed a many of tribes and many of indigenous

17:26

people at that point in time. And it is sad,

17:29

but you know, she couldn't be taken down outside

17:31

of a force of nature. I

17:34

guess it's sad. But also if you look at it,

17:36

no, no person put it down exactly.

17:39

She was too strong for people to put on. Its

17:43

too strong for the individual man. I'm

17:45

just saying it couldn't be done by man. So

17:49

other happens deep, Oh

17:52

my god, totally totally

17:55

unrelated. But my brain immediately went

17:57

to Lord of the Rings. Yes,

18:00

okay, we like that reference. Go

18:02

ahead, go ahead with a reference. Because

18:07

one of the leaders of the Black Writers couldn't

18:09

be killed, couldn't be killed by

18:11

a man, and was killed by a woman. Yeah,

18:15

yeah, yeah, that's

18:17

the way, I'm

18:21

no man, okay, so

18:23

good, it was good. Don't

18:26

get us off track myself like that. Loves

18:31

and classics, lorings come on, so

18:33

going on. So it's Elizabeth

18:36

Wanna Maker Paratrovich. I

18:39

literally looked up more of the

18:41

native print stations of their names than I did

18:43

on that one. So

18:48

we'll just say Paratrovich, which

18:50

is not fair. I don't

18:52

know. I

18:55

preferred to call people by their indigence

18:58

for native names. Understanding understandable.

19:01

She is part of the Linkett

19:04

tribe and someone can

19:07

at me and if I do, I'm pronounced them that wrong because it felt

19:09

completely differently. But

19:11

they're in Alaska. She

19:16

was adopted at a young age, and

19:19

one of the reasons why I really wanted to use

19:21

her name her original print name,

19:24

is because she only got the name

19:26

Elizabeth Wanta Maker after she was

19:28

adopted, which

19:30

kind of makes my heart out of that

19:32

whole eraser thing. And

19:36

she gained that wonderful is

19:39

it polish? I have no idea last

19:41

name from her husband, Roy, but they

19:43

were both Native and

19:46

they became the grand President of

19:49

the Alaska Native Brotherhood and Sisterhood,

19:53

and they eventually moved to Juno and

19:56

we're confronted by the no natives allowed

19:58

buying all over the

20:00

uh there's some siens say no dogs

20:02

and no natives, like excuse me,

20:07

so frustrating. But Elizabeth's

20:10

progressed and was determined to bring change. So

20:12

she directed and presented

20:15

the Anti Discrimination Act, and

20:19

it was the first shot down

20:22

and she in that teen three, I believe,

20:24

and she reads to put it

20:26

before or the Senate in

20:29

nineteen and

20:32

just to kind of paint

20:34

a picture of what she was

20:36

like, I kind of has to say a quote from

20:38

someone who's not very nice, so

20:41

to give you a picture of the kind of

20:44

discrimination that needs faced in Alaska,

20:47

senator event, Senator Allen

20:50

has it felt comfortable

20:52

enough to say and a quote.

20:55

Far from being brought close together

20:57

which will results from this act, the racist should

20:59

be kept further apart. He said, who

21:02

are these people, barely out of savagery

21:05

who want to associate with us? White?

21:08

Was five thousand years of recorded

21:10

civilization behind us? Oh

21:12

my god. Her

21:17

response to that was was kind

21:19

of amazing to Sander

21:21

Allen. She said, I would

21:23

not have expected that I, who am barely

21:26

out of savagery, wouldn't have to remind

21:28

gentlemen, was five thousand years of recorded

21:31

civilization behind them of our

21:33

bill of rights. Yeah, yeah,

21:40

she testified last

21:43

in defense of the act, and whatever

21:46

she said, she was able to move

21:48

the entire assembly. Some people said that

21:50

there was cheers everywhere and certain

21:52

ovation and her work

21:54

resulted in Alaska being the very first

21:57

date to pass INTI discrimination legislation,

21:59

but did pass in that's

22:03

amazing, that is amazing. Yeah,

22:07

we have some more women we want

22:09

to talk about listeners, but first we have a quick

22:11

break for a word from our sponsors, and

22:26

we're back. Thank you, sponsor. Let's get into the

22:28

interview to put that into perspective.

22:32

We didn't really have remember were joining

22:34

from themself Arkansas specifically,

22:37

we had segregation filled the seventies,

22:40

right, So yeah, this

22:43

this act was very ahead

22:46

of it time. Right. Oh

22:49

yeah, it looked like and Annie had put in here that it

22:51

would have been nearly twenty years before the federal civil

22:53

rights side would be passed, as well as

22:55

fourteen years before Alaska would become a

22:57

state, which is

22:59

phenomen minal timing that she was able to push

23:01

that hard and get that accomplished. Yeah,

23:05

she obviously had some kind of gift

23:07

of word speech, because

23:10

she was able to move people who

23:13

were so set in their ways of

23:15

thinking of progress or ways of

23:17

looking at Native people that they

23:19

would pass this after

23:21

it had bedn't failed. So I don't

23:24

know what kind of magical

23:26

words she used, but we

23:29

need to imagine right now.

23:33

Yes, for a few reasons. For a few

23:35

reasons. Uh.

23:38

Yeah, And I read that the

23:40

United States meant will have

23:42

a one dollar coin featuring

23:45

her, So, oh I didn't hear

23:47

that. That's exciting. It

23:50

was very exciting. Looks like her son Um

23:52

sculpted a bronze bust in

23:54

honor of her as in the state

23:56

Lobby of Alaska as well. So

23:59

she's a signal nificant portion to the history

24:01

of Alaska, which is beautiful. Yeah,

24:05

did you see the um?

24:07

We can do it? What was that that

24:09

ward time? Any

24:12

derivat? Yeah, she's

24:16

They have one for her too, and I like that one a lot.

24:18

Oh yeah, that's awesome. That is awesome saying

24:24

that right, I could

24:26

not find a pronunciation for her

24:29

name unfortunately, so somebody

24:32

can correctice. I'm sure somebody will

24:41

hit me up on Twitter. I'm sorry, go

24:45

ahead, so U tish

24:48

point for the point I'm going forward, who

24:51

is who are they? Well,

24:54

as we were talking about pollinization, pitch

24:56

prosity. Yeah, this

25:00

a kind of hard story. But as

25:03

Tish was one of the last satte or

25:06

two spirit leaders, and I

25:09

think we're talking to you. I

25:11

mentioned transgender, but to spirit

25:14

isn't directly correlated to transgender.

25:16

It's the closest English term that

25:19

we have for it, but that's not exactly what

25:21

it was. In Almost

25:24

all Native cultures had too spirit

25:27

people. But you

25:29

weren't just a different gender than the one

25:31

you were assigned at birth. I

25:34

say that because that's the term

25:36

most accepted right now, but often

25:39

tinans. Gender wasn't really design

25:42

in Native communities. But

25:44

you are something more if you were to

25:46

spirit mhm.

25:50

It's uh. It was really

25:52

a third gender beyond the gender

25:54

binary. And they were also

25:57

given positions of leadership and we're

25:59

highly who respected members of their communities.

26:03

Tish was the head of the

26:05

Botte, the

26:07

two spirit leaders in her time.

26:11

So we mentioned the Battle of the road

26:13

Side with Buffalo cath road

26:15

Woman. She

26:17

actually fought on the side. Yeah.

26:22

So that battle was between the

26:25

Cheyenne and Lakotas d on one side with

26:29

Crazy Horse and Buffalo cast Road Woman,

26:32

and on the other side was the Crow

26:34

into Shawne people.

26:38

So it was a little a little weird

26:40

to kind of read the different

26:42

perspectives in telling their stories, because on

26:44

the one hand, you have all this bravery

26:47

from Buffalo cath Road Woman and celebrating

26:49

her for being able to turn the battle around,

26:52

and then when you're talking about Ostreet, they

26:54

talked about her prowess

26:56

and bravery even

26:59

though they love So it's

27:03

very interesting and as usual, it's

27:05

about land. And

27:09

there was a graphic I saw the

27:12

other day about how just

27:15

from seventeen seventy six you

27:17

can see the number

27:19

of Native Americans and where they were allowed

27:22

to be just dwindle across the

27:24

state, and it

27:27

forced not only neative

27:29

people to fight against the colonizers,

27:32

but also against each other because

27:34

their lands are being taken away. But

27:38

again, they Artist and

27:41

the Crow in Shy lost

27:45

and eventually the crew were

27:47

confined to a reservation. Unfortunately,

27:50

at the time there were a lot of missionaries and government

27:52

agents that kind of ran the

27:54

reservations. That's not so much the

27:56

case anymore now to

27:59

overeign nation have their own

28:01

government, which

28:04

is another story at

28:08

the time, but people did

28:11

not accept two spirits people. It

28:13

is outside their sensibilities.

28:16

The nicest way I seem stay it. Yeah,

28:21

So just like in

28:23

the boarding schools and the

28:25

residential schools, hair was

28:27

cut off. Two spirit people

28:29

were forced to wear men's clothes and do

28:31

quote unquote men's work. And in

28:33

the face of that, Ashtosh

28:36

wore or neat dresses with pride

28:39

and when afric kind of work

28:41

she did, she always did, she did women's work.

28:43

She was one of the last

28:46

two spirit people across all Native

28:48

cultures two be

28:50

alive. It was effectively

28:53

wiped out for the most part between

28:57

boarding schools and residential schools

28:59

and just people dying

29:01

off and unfortunately a lot of

29:04

two spirit people walked

29:06

on before their trying. I think

29:09

cans remonderous. It's

29:11

it's really hard to talk about these

29:14

kinds of situations because it's easy

29:16

to get really emotional and go

29:19

off, but that's what you know, it's

29:21

not going to bring anyone back to life, and it's it's just

29:24

really tough to read about these

29:26

situations. You

29:29

just have all this anger that has nowhere

29:31

to go on, right, I mean,

29:33

obviously you're somewhere to go here,

29:37

because it's true it is infuriating

29:39

to see that as a culture, what

29:41

that was accepted then was taken away from them

29:44

because of a bigotry

29:46

idea of what is normal, which,

29:49

of course again we're having to come back to and

29:51

have conversations about, and we're nowhere near progressing,

29:53

especially when it comes to um as

29:56

you say, the two gendered as transgender

29:58

as we know it, or that's the best this way

30:00

we can say identify with it.

30:02

I guess that is still such

30:04

a fight to understand, bigger

30:07

than the scope of gender

30:09

and being gendered in general. Yeah,

30:13

And the really hard thing is

30:16

that even though there are a lot of moves to

30:18

revitalize cultural practices,

30:22

a lot of the information is a lot the

30:25

body passed down. The two spirit

30:28

leaders passed out a lot of information amongst

30:31

themselves, And if they're all gone

30:34

and nothing's written, what's

30:37

they're for us to revitalize? Mm

30:39

hmm. So we have

30:41

people who are too spirit

30:43

and those things that are kind of becoming more

30:46

acceptable again, But what's missing

30:49

is the medicine the leadership

30:51

did, tradition that

30:54

came along with it. So like

30:57

other things that Native

30:59

people are trying to revitalize, we

31:01

can only kind of look at things as a guide and

31:04

then do what

31:06

we can with it in our in the scope

31:08

of our modern culture. So

31:12

this is one of those lessons that

31:14

we have to learn and look back and make sure

31:16

that history doesn't repeat itself raising

31:21

a culture or an idea or or people's

31:23

in general, which

31:25

is infuriating and heartbreaking in all the same ways

31:28

in different ways, I guess, says,

31:32

but I did read. So we are reading that the

31:35

Crow tribe did stand behind her um

31:37

when she refused to conform

31:40

to the European roles that they were trying to place

31:42

on them. Oh, they absolutely

31:44

before that and supported

31:46

her because she

31:49

was a leader and they

31:51

had already seen what she could do. She more

31:54

of an earned her position.

31:57

Unfortunately, later in

31:59

her life she faced some kickbacks.

32:03

When we talk about the the

32:05

residential schools and boarding schools, they

32:08

were there's really no nice

32:11

way to say they were horrific. People

32:14

were brainwashed and tortured,

32:16

and one of the things that they

32:19

did effectively was take

32:21

a whole generation of me Is people and

32:25

make them feel inadequate

32:28

or that their practices were

32:30

outdated. And that's still something

32:32

we're struggling with this day, because

32:35

there's a generational

32:37

gap between knowledge.

32:39

So you have that the last generation

32:41

to fight, and then the generations

32:44

that lived and grew up through the

32:46

boarding school systems, and then

32:49

our generation who's trying

32:51

to revitalize the

32:54

tradition. And so a

32:56

lot of people have heard them talk about the try

32:59

to talk to their grandmother's about certain practices,

33:02

and they're very resisdent. We

33:04

don't do that anymore. Not

33:08

all people who went to the residential

33:10

schools and boy schools are like that, right

33:14

under that kind of psychological torture.

33:18

I can't say anything about the

33:20

people who kind of

33:23

changed or assimilated, because that's just a

33:25

survival skill you

33:27

have. If you're going to die or be tortured,

33:29

you have to assimilate, right And that's that

33:32

is exactly what colonization was to bring

33:34

the shame factor. If there's only one culture that

33:36

is correct, and it is whatever

33:38

the strongest or the most most forceful

33:41

culture at that point in time, which

33:43

is absolutely kind of this whole whitewashing

33:46

of history for so many cultures in

33:48

general, and I mean whitewashing, and

33:52

it is it is a horrific thing that it brings

33:54

on a shame factor for those

33:57

who have a different take or

33:59

different understanding and different culture

34:01

on different background, which

34:03

is, yeah, you're right, this is unfortunate,

34:06

and it's it's it's interesting to take that

34:08

here, that perspective from you about how your

34:10

generation is coming in trying to relearn, but

34:12

you are battling with the still

34:15

stain factor from the past generations

34:17

that they were taught or they were tortured, or they're forced

34:19

on to them, which is, yeah,

34:21

I've never actually thought about that in the bigger

34:23

picture. It's it's very

34:26

it's something that you don't seem normally, especially

34:29

if you're not connected to a native community.

34:32

So some of my friends are

34:35

in Nupia in Alaska and

34:37

they have the traditional tin tattoos,

34:40

and there are some women in the

34:42

community who are older who see

34:45

it as a bad thing because

34:47

that's something they left behind. They evolved

34:50

past that now, but

34:52

more and more women are getting those

34:54

traditional tattoos, and I

34:57

think it's absolutely beautiful that

35:00

they're able to because it really came

35:03

from I think one book or one

35:05

reported book about tattooing

35:09

and how they did it and what the different clans

35:11

and people have different patterns,

35:14

and I

35:16

guess that they're just kind of building it up from

35:18

there, right,

35:22

And what you're doing with bringing it forward

35:24

and talking about the history is also very very

35:26

important, so we can see and recognize

35:29

the tragedy that happens when you oppress

35:32

a culture in the society and the history

35:34

that is lost on that as

35:37

well. It's a good job, Natalie,

35:40

I think. I mean, honestly, I

35:43

am absolutely not an expert

35:46

in any of these cultures, in any

35:49

of these specific types. They're

35:52

not mine any one on this list,

35:54

first of all, and second of all, I am

35:58

Nick, even if I am significantly

36:02

indigenous, but I

36:05

had to I'm having to reconnect later

36:07

in life anyway. And it's

36:10

only because I have two

36:12

people who grew up within their cultures and

36:15

made actual steps to educate myself

36:17

that I can even speaking right,

36:21

right, But I think what's and

36:24

yes, there are definitely a lot of experts out there, but

36:27

coming out and having conversations and

36:30

and making sure people still know or

36:32

at least understand the bigger history is

36:35

phenomenal in itself. And also, yes, you

36:37

definitely have a drive

36:39

which is beautiful to make sure,

36:41

honestly, if anyone this knowledge,

36:44

this information is available to everyone,

36:46

right, which should be

36:49

we should have more stuff on this moving on

36:51

to the next person. And I'm not sure I'm gonna be able

36:53

to say this name talk to me to

36:56

thank you. I'm pretty sure again,

37:00

um idea. But she is are you? Are

37:03

you? But she was an advocate

37:05

for the people and also an author. She

37:08

was one of the first well I think she was

37:10

the first published Native American

37:12

woman, and she published a

37:14

book called Life among the Pies,

37:17

Their Wrongs and Claims in x

37:20

eighteen eighty three. She

37:24

witnessed a lot of atrocities and violence

37:27

against the people and always

37:29

spoke out against her treatment. And

37:31

when I think she spoke out, she gut over

37:34

three hundred deejas on

37:38

the true the maltreatment of Native people.

37:43

She lived through the Banic

37:45

War of eighteen seventy

37:47

eight and rescued a group of

37:50

payed people, including

37:52

her father, and

37:54

continue to speak out even after she and

37:56

a group of play were forcibly located to

37:58

the Yakima res vation until

38:01

her death took me tona

38:04

spot for land vites and human rights of Native

38:06

people. It might not

38:08

be a surprise too were

38:11

people, as she came from a line of leaders,

38:13

as a daughter of the chiefs

38:15

and the granddaughter of Chi's truck

38:17

e. Unfortunately, there's

38:19

not too too much information I could find

38:22

on her beyond that, but

38:24

we still have her writings.

38:27

Her book is still available, so that's

38:30

us. And for sure I know

38:33

that the right people talk

38:36

about her a lot in there in

38:38

Nevada. Three

38:41

hundred speeches. It's

38:43

impressive. It's impressive speaking

38:45

out in too. You're like, what, as

38:49

an indigenous female, what that

38:52

takes a lot of parts? Excuse

38:58

so let me to speak out in our

39:00

community. It is not an abnormal

39:03

thing, but

39:05

when you're facing culture

39:07

that is kind of the opposite,

39:11

especially in the eighteen hundreds, I'm

39:14

sure it was very odd to look

39:17

at halving all this freedom and

39:20

respect is a Native woman and then seeing

39:22

the culture that you were trying to be forced into.

39:26

Yeah, m I can only

39:28

imagine. I want to read

39:30

her book. Really need to find

39:32

that book next moment, yeah,

39:38

or less that. We haven't started. I have a

39:40

list, you have, I know you have, I know you

39:42

have. And

39:45

then we wanted to talk about Madonna thunder

39:47

Hawk. There's one before

39:49

that? Sorry? Which one is? Okay?

39:52

I'm really excited? Is it to

39:54

lost that? Or Red

39:56

Food was a

39:59

young Napton, Youngstown,

40:01

Dakotas to and she's

40:03

another writer, but she's also

40:06

a musician and activists. Her

40:08

books were written among the

40:10

first to spread traditional Native stories

40:12

and she wrote. She

40:15

even wrote part of the first Native

40:17

American opera called the Sun Dance

40:19

Opera in nineteen thirteen. While

40:22

her writings of her experiences with boarding

40:24

School of life and stories are probably

40:26

enough to make her historical figure. National

40:31

and made the National Council

40:33

for American Indians in nineteen twenty

40:36

six, and this enabled her to

40:38

lobby for Native rights

40:40

to the United States

40:42

citizenship and civil rights.

40:45

She served as president until her death

40:48

in nineteen thirty eight. So

40:51

we have another strong woman in

40:54

leadership, not just

40:57

in the tribe but outside of it is law,

41:00

So there's another another

41:04

I don't know the operas are put into a

41:06

book, but I'm sure she wrote other books

41:08

that you can add your boys.

41:12

I think she she was pretty prolific. Um

41:16

that she wrote and

41:18

uh from recording for what I

41:20

found the Atlantic Monthly and Harper's Monthly. Um,

41:25

so yeah, that's I think some of

41:27

her works are out there. People should definitely go check

41:30

them out. Yeah.

41:32

The College Hall is also just

41:35

a beautiful horror, and she is

41:38

another image of Indigenous

41:42

Native strength and perseverance. I

41:46

don't know, I want a seriously like you

41:48

know, as a kid, you have all those put stories of bands

41:50

and stuff on your walls. I

41:53

kind of want to saw all these women on my be

41:56

awesome. Can't put it on your phone now as

41:58

a motivation. Now there you go, not

42:01

on not on the walls anymore is on your phone because

42:03

you open it up. My room is still covered

42:05

in posters. I don't know what you're saying. Your house is covered

42:08

in posters. Never

42:10

mind, I haven't. I

42:12

haven't graduated from that. I

42:16

do too. I do toot

42:21

on the ceiling too. So you wake up in the is

42:24

all these amazing women. Yeah, that'd

42:26

be better than what I have. But I still

42:29

do in your ceiling.

42:33

That guy, I mean, eventually you just ran into space

42:35

and you have to put stuff on the feelings.

42:37

Never I've never been there. But okay, that's

42:41

my entire life. But

42:43

I like this idea much better. This

42:45

is more than like Harry Potter and Star Wars,

42:49

perhaps more motivate, normal,

42:55

realistic. Yeah

42:58

you are, I'm just actually is probably

43:00

better than what she's got, So keep geping her the ideas.

43:04

It would be more work appropriate. At least I could be

43:06

like, well these are they? To

43:08

better myself by looking at these motivational

43:12

warriors? Yeah, oh

43:14

my goodness. All right, next we can

43:16

get over more ideas. Now

43:19

we're down to Yes, Madonna

43:21

Thunderhawky, all right, tell us

43:23

about her. She's the last

43:25

first normalist, and of every mormalist,

43:27

she's actually still alive. Don't

43:31

know. I said that ignored

43:38

that part already would

43:40

be alive as congratulations, not that being dead as

43:42

that, you know whatever. She

43:47

lived through a lot of crazy

43:50

things. So she

43:52

is Cheyenne River Sue. And

43:56

I think she's still in South

43:58

Dakota, so she's

44:01

not only alive, still alive. That organized

44:03

the protest against the Daquota pipeline

44:05

in two thousand and sixteen, and she was

44:07

like, wow,

44:11

did she organized that? She's

44:16

seventy eight and she

44:18

doesn't look it by the pictures I've seen, and

44:20

I have no doubt she has one thousand percent

44:23

a woman to be reckoned with. When

44:27

I read through everything she's seen and

44:29

taken part in, I

44:31

just cannot imagine

44:34

what it's like to have

44:36

lived through all these things and still

44:39

have all the fire that

44:41

she stilled. What she

44:45

was part of the Red Power

44:48

movement, which I didn't even know where the thing

44:50

that makes sense. It was the sixties

44:53

and seventies, So guys, black power,

44:55

I just read power goes

44:58

right along with it. Uh.

45:01

Her first foray, as far as

45:03

I could, Yeah, as far as I found

45:06

was protesting during the nineteen sixty nine

45:08

to nineteen seventy one occupation of Outstra

45:12

I had ever heard of this, but

45:15

apparently there was a treaty

45:17

between the government and those Dakota people

45:20

that called the Treaty

45:22

of Fort Larmie that said all

45:24

retired, abandoned, or out of US federal

45:26

land was to be returned to the Lakotas

45:29

who wants to occupied it, And

45:31

so they moved there from nineteen nine

45:34

seventy one. And I was

45:36

not surprised that the

45:38

protest wasn't successful. The

45:41

United States is not really known

45:43

for giving the land

45:46

that It blows

45:48

my mind that she also went

45:51

through this as well. Wounded me. Is

45:54

I don't know if ill we call it soul crushing.

45:56

It's one of those moments

45:59

that earth a

46:01

lot and if he's bread there

46:03

in my heart, it wounded me. You might

46:05

know why so bad,

46:07

but I highly recommend everyone read it.

46:09

I think it should be required reading in high

46:11

school personally, but um,

46:14

I don't know if our

46:17

government in this current climate is ready for

46:19

me to put that in school. So uh.

46:24

But even after that, like

46:27

I said, this woman has

46:30

so much stamina and so much perseverance.

46:33

I don't even I just can't.

46:36

She served as a director of

46:38

the Wounded Me Legal Defense Offense

46:41

Commity in December of Right

46:44

Team seventy five. She also founded

46:46

the Warrior Woman Project. And there's

46:49

kind of so many more organizations

46:51

and movements to

46:54

fight for New American people and

46:56

right and she's still doing this work. That's

47:00

awesome. I mean, another

47:02

another person to look to,

47:05

to to respected, to

47:07

be inspired by. So

47:10

I would cry

47:12

at that demean her. The

47:16

ultimate goal to meet her. Yeah, obviously

47:18

she's still because the pipeline issue

47:20

hasn't been resolved other than no one's

47:23

acknowledging it. To my

47:25

knowledge, I think that the Code of Pipeline

47:27

is active, but we

47:31

an't know that. There have been

47:33

like oil spills and all

47:35

sorts of problems. The

47:38

pipeline is going through Native land are

47:40

legal, may violate several

47:42

treaties, but to fight

47:45

and other things. Native voices have not

47:47

had the impact this they should have had,

47:50

not right their own fault, but

47:53

by our government

47:55

and the news

47:57

media and how things are covered. A

48:00

lot of mothering and not

48:02

a lot of compassions towards

48:04

new people right as um um

48:07

was looking like, I if some of the

48:09

Democrats who are running for president have

48:12

used it as a platform, not not their

48:14

platform, as a promise to shut it down or

48:16

to reverse some of it. So it's still a

48:18

big issue, but not big enough that they're talking about

48:20

it on debates right now, which

48:22

is sad and obviously really really um.

48:28

I don't know what else other than yeah, it's just about

48:30

right. It's not as important to some people um

48:33

as it should be, as it should be about the lines

48:35

that are affecting. But it's absolutely something that's

48:37

still having to be fought for. And obviously

48:40

we know, as you just said, she's

48:42

been fighting for um and Kindometre

48:44

has continued to be a big

48:46

voice in pushing that as a

48:48

as a

48:51

conversation that we need to have more

48:53

of. Yeah, and

48:56

she has seen some real

48:59

real bloodshow. Part

49:01

of my the November project is talking

49:03

about violent language that's still

49:05

used in the media that inspires violence

49:09

in real life, and

49:13

for her to see some of

49:15

the most horrific moments in American

49:19

history or modern whatever

49:22

this period of American history

49:24

is and still be fighting really

49:27

is indicative

49:29

of so much strength. I

49:32

don't know. That's something really common when

49:34

you hear these stories, especially need

49:37

of women. They

49:40

see these awful things, they see this genocide,

49:42

and then in the face of genocide, women

49:45

are standing up and speaking

49:47

out. And that's

49:49

why it's so important to one

49:52

read about your American history,

49:55

take part in as much as you can, to

49:59

talk as some of those things, and actually listen

50:01

when Americans talk about issues

50:04

they are facing ones. It's

50:09

just a lot, right. We

50:12

do have a little bit more for you listeners, but first

50:14

we have one more quick break for word from our

50:16

sponsor and

50:30

we're back. Thank you sponsor. So you

50:32

had mentioned earlier that there's obviously

50:35

and we can all definitely research, but what

50:37

would you point out someone that wants to learn

50:39

more of the histories and the behind the scenes.

50:42

Where would you point them? Is there something like reference

50:44

books or that two old days

50:46

reference books

50:51

resources? Thank you books. I'm

50:54

not old, I'm not come out against books.

50:56

I used to encyclopedia from most

50:58

of middle school. Okay, so I mean and I when not

51:00

saying encyclopaedia, I mean hard bound

51:03

Britanica, Cyclopaedias, serie decimals,

51:07

So don't date me, but resources that you would

51:09

point them to. Oh

51:15

so I would

51:18

recommend if you really want to

51:20

know what Native

51:22

history is like and why

51:24

all of us are so passionate

51:27

about it, I think

51:30

diving in head first is

51:34

the best way to do it, because we

51:37

are living with reality and if

51:39

it's shocking to you, imagine

51:42

what it's like for us to see all

51:44

the your reature that are people have faced and

51:47

see it continuing now. So a

51:49

good place to start to really get

51:52

a handle on how much

51:56

effort has been put into eliminating

51:58

Native people bury in my heart

52:01

it wounded me is the

52:04

books that's probably the bless the best place

52:06

to start. There

52:08

are there's a narrative that I've heard of

52:13

Native American spot against each other.

52:15

So it's not a big deal that the

52:18

United States also the colonial

52:20

people also bought them. But it

52:23

is completely different. We're talking about

52:26

the make genocide

52:28

as opposed to what

52:32

kind of amounts

52:34

to land stuffle and

52:40

I will warn you that there are some things in

52:42

the Wounded they remember the one Danda, are

52:45

graphic, but it's

52:48

absolutely necessary to hear those things.

52:52

And usually, again, history like

52:54

this, atrocities like this, and

52:56

again, as you said, genocide, it's going to be graphics.

52:59

So to expect less would

53:01

be you look at a really unrealistic version

53:03

of history. Right.

53:05

It would be like learning about the Holocaust

53:08

without learning about anything

53:11

that has to Dick concentration camp, right, which

53:14

is absurd in itself. Well, thank

53:16

you so much, Natalie. I'm so glad

53:19

that we got to connect and

53:21

that you are able to speak with us.

53:23

Is there anything else that you want to add or you

53:25

want to voice about what we're talking

53:28

about? I

53:30

okay, one thing I I

53:34

kind of challenge my listeners

53:36

to do. List If you are not connected

53:39

to a Native community or any

53:41

funds who are needed, I encourage

53:43

you too. On Instagram, watch Twitter, follow

53:47

five Indigenous people and

53:51

just as you're looking to your

53:54

feet and as you're learning

53:56

and hearing from these people, I guarantee

53:58

you it won't take very long for

54:00

you to realize that there

54:02

are some things going on you might not be aware of.

54:05

And I think that's kind of adslies

54:07

to all ethnic groups. It's a good

54:09

idea to know what's happening and be aware

54:11

and get out of our little bubbles. But

54:15

it's very important thing to make

54:17

sure you are paying attention

54:19

to native voices, especially

54:23

being on the land of people who are still here.

54:26

Now, that's amazing. I love that. That's a

54:29

great challenge and I think absolutely I would

54:31

voice that and agree with you that is

54:33

to start to

54:35

start with and do that. Um.

54:38

And now where can we find you on the interwebs.

54:42

You can find me on all social

54:44

media platforms at some kind of Brown.

54:47

My podcast Some kind of Brown is

54:50

on actually all of the podcast as

54:53

I have any teenager website

54:56

employ a teenager because it still has a dot

54:58

WordPress, dot com. Some

55:03

kind of request that song,

55:05

and it has all the episodes that

55:07

I have I've had so far, and

55:09

you can find out more about November

55:12

or any of the guests or episodes that I've

55:14

had on there too. Amazing.

55:16

Thank you again, UM,

55:19

you are awesome and I'm

55:21

sure we're going to keep in connection. Yes,

55:23

we wanted you to know we support everything you're

55:25

doing and we want to make sure that,

55:28

UM, you know that we overhear

55:30

at Sementy love what you're doing and

55:32

are great grateful that you're doing it. Yes,

55:35

thank you so much. How do you want to say my

55:38

girlfriend is a big fan of

55:40

your podcast? Yeah, hello,

55:44

hello, Yeah,

55:48

I see a chance to

55:50

move on and something

55:53

that I think I really appreciate.

55:55

It's what your podcast is. It's just about

55:58

being a woman with our necessarily

56:02

putting a limit on what that means.

56:05

And I think that's really company

56:08

for people who are

56:10

transgender women to just

56:13

have this place where they can talk about

56:15

femininity and being a woman in

56:18

at the same time being included in the narrative.

56:22

That brings us to the end of

56:24

this another delightful interview with

56:27

um all of your listeners. I'm always

56:29

so impressed and inspired in

56:31

awe the things that you all are doing.

56:33

So keep keep letting

56:36

us know what you're up to. We love hearing about

56:38

it. UM. And as Natalie said, probably

56:41

everybody on this list we could

56:43

have talked about a whole episode,

56:45

right. It's not, as she had said before, Even though

56:48

I was like, oh, yeah, it's a big list, it really

56:50

isn't. And it's probably an endless list of

56:53

people that we could talk about who identified

56:55

as female. Or non binary that

56:57

needs to be recognized, that we need to be talking

56:59

about, and that their history does need to be

57:01

preserved and the things that they have done

57:04

for their community as well as for

57:06

their culture. And I think I'm

57:09

very sad that we couldn't get we

57:12

don't have all the information that we absolutely

57:14

should and uh that that this

57:17

is the first time I've heard of probably about

57:19

four of those women, some I've ever talked

57:21

about that and that makes me really sad.

57:24

Yeah. Um, And

57:27

Natalie's says she had an entire spreadsheet of

57:29

women and she had to choose. Like I appreciate

57:32

the difficulty of that, Natalie as you as you're if

57:34

you're listening to this now, I've

57:36

been in that situation, not similar, but been like,

57:38

pick of all of these amazing women, picked

57:40

the three bests, and you're like, A, here's

57:43

this movies and

57:45

other things? Right now? Is all I can think

57:47

of? His movies because we've been talking about movies.

57:49

Yes, yes, but I

57:51

also have more important items in my

57:54

brains. Um, but

57:56

yeah, yeah, I would love to hear about every single

57:58

woman on that spreadsheet. See you, we

58:00

should have just gotten that's all we can publish it? Oh

58:03

you can ask Satalie, maybe she doesn't want to share your secrets.

58:05

I don't know. I'm putting that on my show. If

58:07

not, you should definitely go listen to her show. You should

58:09

absolutely do that because, um,

58:12

as you said, we all need to know

58:15

these stories and they're so valuable, um

58:18

and inspiring they are. Yes.

58:21

Um So, if

58:23

you would like to email us with

58:25

whatever europe to or people we

58:27

should be talking about, whatever is on

58:29

your mind, you can do that. Our

58:31

email is Stuff Media mom Stuff

58:34

at i heeart media dot com. You

58:36

can also find us on Twitter at

58:38

mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram

58:40

at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks to

58:42

Natalie for being our wonderful interviewee.

58:46

Thank you to Andrew are super producer.

58:48

Another thank you, and thank you

58:51

for listening Stuff I'm

58:53

Never Told You his protection of I Heart Radios how Stuff

58:55

works. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

58:57

visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast

59:00

wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H