0:03

Welcome to stuff Mom never told

0:05

you. From how stupports dot com.

0:13

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Christman

0:15

and I'm Caroline. And today on the

0:17

show it's two pale white girls

0:19

talking about tanning. That's right.

0:22

My whole life I have been blindingly

0:24

white. Um My Scottish

0:27

Irish heritage would have it no other

0:29

way. I am so

0:32

white that a few years

0:34

ago, I say a few it's probably like fifteen

0:36

or ten years ago, my friend's mother

0:38

saw me in a bathing suit and said, Caroline,

0:41

you are glowing. And she didn't

0:43

say this because I was pregnant.

0:46

She you know, thank god, she said

0:48

it because I was so white

0:50

and standing in the sun. Sounds like

0:52

she really had a way with words. She really did.

0:55

Uh. And so I

0:57

have since then, not because of that, but

1:00

just over the course of my life. Every

1:02

summer I buy tanning creams.

1:05

Uh. Not because

1:07

of the mom, No, not because of her. That

1:10

was just like a part of what I

1:12

already knew, Kristen, which is that I'm blinding.

1:14

When you put me in the sun, I'm like a mirror.

1:17

I'm like a reflective surface, just beaming

1:19

light back into space. I mean that sounds

1:21

kind of cool. Yeah, I'm

1:23

it's basically my superpower. And

1:26

so I have tried out many a

1:28

tanning cream and

1:31

I think I prefer, honestly, like

1:33

good old Jurgen's, like the

1:35

lotion that you used to build up a gradual

1:37

tan. Listen, don't lose your

1:40

superpower, though, Caroline. I mean you could

1:42

be blinding street harassers

1:44

left and right. Someone whistles

1:47

or honks that you you just rip off your

1:49

shirt. Look at my forearm.

1:54

So a few weeks ago, I debuted

1:57

my spring legs in public for

2:00

the first time, and I

2:02

thought for I debated

2:04

it all day in my head. And this

2:06

is a little embarrassing to admit whether

2:09

I should take an Instagram photo

2:11

or not just to share

2:13

with the world, because it was truly astonishing.

2:17

That's how I feel every

2:19

year looking at myself in the

2:21

mirror. This is this is truly astonishing.

2:24

Um, I got

2:27

my first spray tan ever last

2:30

year. Do tell you

2:32

and I were on our way to New York to have

2:34

our pictures taken in our underwear. Oh my gosh,

2:36

dont we sounds so glamorous, scare a lot or

2:38

creepy, But this was for dear Kate underwear

2:42

and I got a spray tan, but

2:44

I made sure, because I am so pasty,

2:48

not to go very dark. I

2:50

specifically requested like a light

2:53

honey hued spray tan,

2:56

just to make sure that I didn't like

2:58

blend in with the white background

3:01

of the photo shoot, just so that I

3:03

actually stood out, so we didn't just look

3:05

like a floating tank top like

3:07

floating bangs. Tank top and underpants.

3:10

Again, it sounds pretty cool the way you describe

3:12

this, but

3:14

yeah, but but I was conscious

3:17

of I don't want to look

3:20

fake or tacky.

3:22

I want to look like a nice,

3:25

honey, huge, sun tanned, happy,

3:27

healthy version of myself. And it looked great.

3:30

Thanks. But I have a question. It might

3:32

be t m I. I've got a question for you about your

3:34

spray tan experience. Yes, was

3:37

it one of those spray tan salons

3:40

where you have to get completely naked and

3:43

the person sprays you by

3:45

hand, ma'am? What was that

3:48

like? And did they

3:50

on your rear make you bend over? Oh?

3:53

No, yes and no. Um, so I didn't

3:55

get fully naked or naked,

3:58

but I wasn't up to anything, so it's really just snake it.

4:00

Um. I stripped down to my underpants

4:03

and bloomers and a

4:05

and a very very nice, very

4:08

nice young woman, uh, sprayed

4:10

me and you know, I have to stand like

4:13

I'm in the security check

4:15

at the airport and instead

4:17

of you're not like bending all the way over.

4:20

I'm not going to make a bad joke. Um, I

4:23

just sort of like pitched forward a little bit like

4:25

I was losing my balance and

4:28

that's the way that she got

4:30

up in there and next thing you knew you were twerking

4:33

and it just got so awkward. Yeah

4:36

it was, Yeah, you forgot where you were, I

4:38

know, like I always do. So

4:42

we have so much to talk about in

4:44

this standing episode because listeners,

4:46

we're not just going to talk about how

4:49

you get a tan and melanoma

4:51

risks and things like that, because we have talked about

4:54

skin cancer and tanning on the podcast

4:56

before, but in this episode, we

4:58

really want to dig into more of

5:00

the cultural aspects of it. Why

5:02

it's popular, especially for pascy

5:05

skinned white ladies like myself and

5:07

and you. But really, I mean, like

5:09

I'm I'm in that glove too, uh,

5:13

and the class and race

5:15

issues that also are

5:18

so embedded in our whole tanning

5:20

culture because I mean, forever

5:22

and ever, Historically speaking,

5:25

paleness, almost

5:27

translucent skin has

5:30

been the epitome of beauty, and

5:32

it hasn't been until the last

5:35

about century that

5:38

we've started seeing this kind

5:40

of cycle of no

5:43

tanning is prettier, No paleness is prettier,

5:46

No tanning is prettier. And it seems

5:48

like that cycle is speeding up, because, as

5:50

Kristen and I were talking about before the

5:52

podcast, before we came into record, you

5:55

have pale beauty,

5:57

but then in like the nineties and we were growing

6:00

up, you also had hypertan Britney

6:02

Spears, you had Christina

6:05

Aguilera who was hypertan.

6:07

Yeah, I went to the tanning bed when I in

6:09

my senior year of high school, like regularly.

6:13

Yes, I got real basic that

6:15

year. I'm just saying,

6:18

But now, I mean, it seems like

6:22

and I mean, I guess it depends on and

6:25

I mean, we'll we'll flush this out a little bit more in the episode,

6:27

And it depends on your social

6:29

group, what is considered most attractive

6:31

and normal. It depends on the magazines

6:34

and media you consume what's considered

6:36

most attractive and beautiful. But I feel

6:38

like you've got some people who

6:41

want to achieve the you

6:43

know, Jessica album glow, which

6:46

is not so much a glover as it's her literal

6:48

skin color. And then you've got

6:51

other people who look at you

6:53

know, super translucent

6:55

high fashion models, and that's more what they

6:57

aspire to now, Yeah,

7:00

be honest. So Caroline, before we came into the podcast studio,

7:02

you are arguing that the

7:05

Jessica, Alba, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian,

7:08

who, by the way, these are all like wildly

7:10

different skin tones, but that the more

7:12

honey huge look, as it would

7:14

be described, is the

7:16

in look. Now. Yes,

7:19

And as we talked about it, I

7:22

think it's like I was saying,

7:24

I think it depends on what is

7:27

normal and beautiful around you.

7:30

So for instance, depending

7:32

on, like I said, your social group

7:34

or what your friends look like, that normalizes

7:37

whatever the beauty standard is.

7:40

Um. But also it looks

7:42

like it depends on age groups too,

7:45

as we'll talk about later in the podcast,

7:47

because by and large, the people who are

7:50

going to tanning beds and

7:52

are committed to tanning like once

7:54

a month at least, tend to

7:56

be younger women, and

7:58

statistically a lot of them are in sororities,

8:01

which is really interesting. So this could be

8:03

just an issue like achieving

8:06

color wise of different

8:09

age and socioeconomic groups. Yeah,

8:12

I mean so, and listeners, I

8:14

really want you to weigh in on this because

8:17

I contended that the

8:19

popularity of of say

8:21

Beyonce and Kim Kardashian has

8:23

little to do with skin color,

8:26

and as it relates to tanning, has little

8:28

to do with skin color and more to

8:30

do with body shape and how

8:32

are like beauty ideals

8:34

in terms of the quote

8:37

unquote sexiest female

8:39

shape has changed,

8:42

you know, more towards um

8:45

those kinds of body shapes. Because I

8:47

don't think that any like white sorority girls are going

8:49

to the tanning bed so that they can look

8:51

like Beyonce. And if they are, I'm a

8:53

little concerned about them, to be completely honest.

8:56

Yeah, yes, do you have

8:58

people who have maybe tanning

9:00

obsessions? Yes, that is the thing people who

9:02

get addicted to tanning. Is your average

9:05

girl who's in a sorority addicted

9:07

to tanning so she can look like Beyonce? Probably

9:09

not um, But

9:12

the very fact that that could

9:14

be a possibility that white

9:16

people like us can get in the tanning

9:18

bed, get in the sun, get in the spray

9:21

tann booth and play around with our color

9:24

and achieve social status as

9:26

a result of It

9:29

also speaks to a lot of privilege

9:31

too that we're going to get into, because it's

9:33

not like Beyonce can get into a spray

9:35

tan and get like, you know, a white

9:37

look. She can't get like the Emma Stone. Yeah,

9:40

exactly, And I you know that's

9:42

that sort of leads us into the conversation

9:45

of black women enjoying

9:48

tanning as well. It's not like this

9:50

is just for white sorority girls

9:53

to enjoy or to pursue, um,

9:56

but I mean it hasn't always been like that

9:58

for black women either. In general. Of

10:00

course, we're speaking in general terms. The

10:03

embracing of not only do I have the skin

10:05

color, but you know, in the summer, I want to

10:07

get bronze too. This isn't just like a white

10:09

girl thing. And that is exactly

10:11

the theme of pretty much any blog

10:14

post or article written

10:16

by like a woman of color about tanning.

10:19

Like the headline is usually in all caps,

10:21

Yes, black women do

10:24

tan and we can get tann. I mean there's even

10:26

this notion that

10:29

African Americans aren't even capable

10:31

of tanning, which I don't really understand

10:33

because that, you know, demonstrates

10:35

that person doesn't understand how like

10:37

Melana sites work and skin pigment

10:40

and how we react to this to the sun.

10:43

Um. But it's not just an

10:45

issue of possibly, you

10:47

know, your skin darkening as

10:50

a result of being in the sun, but actually wanting

10:53

to get that look at that bronzed

10:57

glow. Yeah. And I mean, hello, we've

11:00

been reading or I've been reading women's

11:02

magazines forever that tut

11:04

tanning real or fake, you know, tanning

11:06

bed sun or suncream as

11:09

a way to hide flaws,

11:11

concealed cellulite, make yourself look a little

11:13

thinner or whatever, or just like you've

11:15

been on vacation, which again ties

11:17

into the whole like class and leisure thing, which we'll get

11:20

into. Um. But yeah,

11:22

again, this is that is a

11:24

a driving force for a lot

11:26

of people, no matter your ethnicity.

11:30

I have a one of my best friends is Korean,

11:32

and I realized one of my best friends is

11:34

Korean. It's not like that, um,

11:37

And every summer she just she loves tanning.

11:40

She loves to get a bronze look. And she

11:44

was telling me about how some of her friends back home

11:46

were like, you know, why do you need to get

11:48

darker. You're already like beige. You

11:50

know, you're fine. And but she loved getting

11:52

those tand lines in the summer, getting a little darker,

11:55

getting a little color so that you don't

11:57

look, as she put it, like sick when you

11:59

go back from summer vacation. Yeah. I mean,

12:01

because of course in Asia

12:03

it's far likelier that the beauty ideal

12:05

is to be as pale as possible. You'll

12:08

see you know, women walking around with

12:10

umbrellas and big hats on, you know,

12:12

shading the sun as much as possible.

12:15

Um. But I do want to get back really quickly

12:18

to black women

12:20

tanning for a minute, because this definitely

12:23

is going to tie into our

12:25

next podcast, which is all about

12:27

colorism. Um. In a

12:30

having in post blog

12:32

about yes black girls also

12:34

tan, Melissa Henderson wrote

12:37

something that jumped out to me. Um. She wrote,

12:39

black girl's tan to these girls

12:41

are not one type of people. It's

12:44

just putting colorism in another category,

12:46

letting other morals take precedence

12:49

in one's life. So whether

12:51

you choose to instagram your tan

12:53

or prefer sitting pool side, tanning

12:56

is a beautiful thing and that

12:59

in distance that yes

13:02

we we tan. And also, hey, It's

13:05

totally fine and not weird at all that

13:07

we would want a tan is

13:09

another theme that you see in

13:11

a lot of these blog posts,

13:13

in particular, like first person pieces about

13:16

it. UM. For instance, there was a piece

13:19

over at black Girl Long Hair talking

13:21

about UM. I think it was a beauty blogger who

13:24

a few years ago put

13:26

up a side by side of her before

13:28

and after getting a spray tan and

13:30

um. It was on YouTube and half

13:33

the comments were really supportive,

13:36

saying, oh, you know, I was about

13:38

to do with a spray tan too, I'm glad to see that it

13:40

looks good, etcetera, etcetera, and in the

13:42

other half being

13:44

completely dumbfounded as

13:47

to why on earth would you want to be darker

13:49

you have you look so much better with lighter

13:51

skin. And that question though,

13:54

which the blogger raised in relation to that

13:56

of is it's seeding a

13:59

quote unquote pri blitch it. We'll talk about more in the next

14:01

episode that comes with lighter

14:03

skin and how like strange

14:06

that might seem. But the reasons

14:08

for for tanning and wanting, you

14:10

know, to to play around with maybe

14:14

fake tanners, spray tans, things like that

14:16

are the same reasons that a lot

14:18

of us are interested in getting a little bit of a

14:20

tan because it often even even out your

14:22

skin tone. It can mask

14:25

uh cellulite and other quote unquote

14:27

flaws and blemishes, and

14:30

also laying out in the sun, as we'll talk about

14:32

more. I mean, it just it feels good physiologically,

14:35

releases all this happy chemicals. Yeah, for us to

14:37

get that vitamin D. So I

14:40

feel like, which is not a euphemism,

14:42

So I feel like it's pretty racist to

14:44

assume that uh, black

14:47

women in particular should not

14:49

want a tan and that it would be weird if

14:51

they did. Yeah. Well, I mean but

14:53

there's so many interesting, uh

14:57

class discussions to be had

14:59

when it to tanning and

15:01

color, because where is

15:04

that line? You know, we we

15:06

look at someone who has got a nice,

15:08

you know, quote unquote natural tan, and

15:10

we're like, oh, she looks rested and

15:12

healthy. Is that what you thought

15:15

when you saw my calves a couple of weeks ago? Yes,

15:17

I was like, those calves look so healthy.

15:20

They look like they've been hibernating all winter,

15:22

they've been on a vacation. You can see

15:24

the patches of really long hair that I

15:27

missed in my first shave of the season.

15:30

Um,

15:32

I like to picture a conger hibernation. You're

15:34

just like hold up with like some glamor

15:36

magazines and a laptop,

15:39

some like granola. But then

15:43

clearly we enter a

15:45

different arena of class

15:48

discussion and appropriateness

15:50

when we get to people like Snooky,

15:53

who once told an interviewer that her ethnicity

15:56

is tan and

15:58

someone who like tan mom.

16:00

Do you remember this woman who has well,

16:03

she has legitimate addiction issues,

16:06

she legitimately has mental health issues,

16:09

and she's gotten a lot of trouble because she took her like four

16:11

year old to a tanning salon. And but

16:13

she literally was the color of

16:16

my leather laptop

16:18

bag that I carry around And

16:21

now I was just reading an update on her. She

16:24

has moved from being addicted to

16:26

tanning to now being obsessed with botox.

16:29

So like, that's a whole different issue.

16:32

But this is something that William lou who's the author

16:34

of the book Social Class and Classism

16:36

in the Helping Professions, writes

16:39

about. He talks about this spectrum

16:41

of like tanning being okay

16:44

or not okay, or signifying class

16:46

or not. So you've got stereotypes

16:48

about people with quote unquote rednecks

16:51

or farmer's tans, and he's

16:53

he writes about how in our minds, in popular

16:55

imagination, this equates to white

16:58

trash people who do man, you

17:00

will labor outside. Who aren't, you

17:02

know, part of the leisure class, who aren't going to

17:04

hop on a cruise ship. And so he

17:06

asks if a demarketd

17:08

tan is a sign of lower class, what does

17:11

an all body tan represent?

17:13

Oh? I mean it means that it's intentional

17:15

that you were going out

17:17

and tanning, assuming

17:20

I guess you were at all like a nude beach or

17:23

you went to a tanning bed, if it's like an all body

17:25

tan. Um. But yeah, I think it is

17:27

totally different. That absolutely

17:29

resonates to Caroline with being

17:32

raised in the South, because

17:36

that whole quote

17:38

unquote redneck division between

17:40

classy and trashy is very

17:43

much alive and well. And I remember

17:45

when I was a kid, my

17:47

my parents, how does do yard

17:50

work pretty much every weekend, which was so

17:52

fun, always um and during

17:54

the summertime, sometimes I would

17:57

get the so called farmers tans and

17:59

I would be harassed by it because

18:01

it would mean, oh, Kristen wasn't at

18:04

the pool with all the other kids, she was

18:06

out picking up sticks and pine

18:08

cones and mowing the lawn.

18:11

Did you did you ever name the pine cones?

18:13

Did you keep any of his pets? Only

18:16

a few? Only only Stephen,

18:18

only Stephen and Richard. Um,

18:22

don't forget Jennifer the pine coun Jenniferlte.

18:26

Well, now, I I

18:28

remember, you know, friends having usually

18:31

boys having like a farmer's tand so

18:33

to speak, because they'd be wearing T shirts around

18:35

or whatever. And to me back

18:38

then as a kid, that would just mean like, oh,

18:41

you haven't been to the pool. Yeah,

18:45

you've been. You've been running around doing

18:47

other things, not playing. But I

18:49

mean, in like my little childhood

18:51

perception, I was already so classist

18:54

in the way that I saw the

18:58

quote unquote redneckt and I saying quote unquote

19:00

because saying redneck

19:03

does I mean it's such a pejorative. Um.

19:06

I don't think it's a very very nice

19:08

term. Um, because

19:10

it is connected to the whole white trash concept,

19:13

and it does in my mind, it takes me

19:16

straight to counties

19:18

right outside of where I grew up that

19:21

were much more rural and people

19:23

tended to spend a lot more time outside, and

19:25

that super duper tanned

19:27

to the point of being read look

19:31

is I mean a byproduct of maybe doing

19:33

you know, labor outside, maybe working if you're on a

19:35

farm, but also a look

19:37

that the girls will cultivate

19:40

to. So that

19:42

totally, and I think

19:44

all of that demonstrates what William

19:46

lou is talking about when he wrote

19:49

how quote tanning becomes another venue

19:52

for performing and demonstrating

19:54

social class both I think in the uh

19:57

the act of tanning yourself and also

19:59

how we interpret other people's

20:01

hands. Yeah, because

20:04

someone like Snooky,

20:06

for instance, let's just she's easy to pick

20:08

on and use it as an example. But

20:10

like two, someone

20:14

who flips through the pages of Vogue,

20:17

Snooky might look trashy because

20:19

of her choice of tanning

20:22

depth. And I will say, because I do follow

20:24

her on Instagram, Caroline, that she has eased

20:26

up on a channing well,

20:28

but she is clearly performing

20:32

and displaying her

20:34

definition. Like we've talked about at the

20:36

very very top of the podcast about the difference

20:38

between what you want to achieve in terms of

20:40

color and why. But she's clearly

20:42

performing her version of

20:46

classy and attractive totally. I mean the same

20:48

thing with the dudes on Jersey

20:50

Shore who would like go and get there their spray

20:52

tans. What is it Jim Jim Tan

20:55

laundry, Jim Laundry Tan. Oh yeah,

20:57

I was like Jim was one of them named Jim.

21:00

Forget the gym was just like there

21:03

had like a tagline. I

21:06

think it was GTL Jim Tan Laundry.

21:09

Oh man. I just want to think about like random

21:11

like bookish Jim that we never saw

21:13

on Jersey Shore, who didn't fit in at

21:15

all, never went to

21:18

to the channing bed um.

21:20

But let's why don't we happen to why

21:22

this is even a thing, because, like you said,

21:25

historically speaking, it's bizarre

21:28

that we like collectively

21:30

would even attempt to darken

21:32

our skin because for mist

21:35

of beauty history,

21:38

pale was where it was at. I mean that's a cross

21:40

cultural thing too, but I mean we would

21:42

apply like potions

21:45

on our skin to get as

21:47

porcelain a look as possible. Yeah,

21:49

And that was because pale skin was supposedly

21:51

a mark of beauty and wealth and refinement,

21:53

whereas tan skin meant you were a peasant.

21:57

You were those monty python characters

22:00

the mud toiling away at

22:02

manual labor. Uh. Not to

22:04

mention, dark skin was of course

22:06

looked down upon because of

22:08

the literal racism

22:10

aspect, the literal hatred

22:12

and racism against brown and black

22:15

bodies. Uh, and women

22:18

would maintain their paleness

22:20

with parasols, large hats,

22:23

bleaching treatments, and heavy powders,

22:26

not to mention lead

22:28

based creams that dated back

22:30

to ancient Greek and Roman times

22:33

and in the Renaissance. I thought, this is so funny.

22:35

European women would draw blue

22:37

lines on their faces to make their

22:39

skin look translucent. That sounds

22:41

so hard to do. I mean that, I mean, I feel

22:44

like contouring today. It's

22:46

really challenging to pull off. But try

22:48

vain contouring. I

22:51

know, what do you what do you even do? I mean, what kind

22:53

of beauty blender could achieve that look? I'm just

22:55

saying, Caroline, And you

22:58

know, literature wasn't on the game too. Milky

23:00

skin has always been hailed as the height of beauty

23:02

and purity. Folks like Shakespeare

23:04

wrote sonnets praising it, and

23:07

early topical sun protectants.

23:10

When you when you look at the ingredients, it really

23:12

takes me back to our Makeup Artist episode,

23:14

Kristen, when we talked about the crazy history

23:16

of pancake makeup before max Factor

23:18

came along. You've got

23:20

things like white petrolatum or

23:23

almond oil mixed with a heavy

23:25

powder made of things like magnesium,

23:28

zinc oxide or bismuth. So

23:31

sounds really good for the pores. Really

23:34

slather that on. Sounds like um.

23:36

But we start to see though, tanning

23:40

slowly becoming a marker

23:43

of social class and

23:46

wealth with the Industrial Revolution,

23:48

because around eighteen fifty

23:51

we start transitioning from

23:53

the working class being outside to them

23:56

being inside in the factories.

23:59

So understandably you have

24:01

tan skin beginning to emerge as a sign

24:03

of the leisure class. You have

24:06

the time to be outside, you can travel.

24:08

I mean, if we go to f Scott Fitzgerald's

24:12

The Beautiful and the Damned, which was set

24:14

in nineteen fourteen and fifteen, his

24:17

up across characters talk about

24:20

how to best achieve a chan Oh

24:22

yeah, man, his characters and his books just

24:24

love the beach, don't they. God West,

24:27

Egg Tanning, Leonardo

24:29

DiCaprio cheersing with Champagne Gift

24:31

still have never Yeah, that's all I know from that movie.

24:33

I still haven't seen. I think that's kind of all you need to know. Yeah,

24:36

okay, good, It's it's a really effective gift

24:38

in a lot of situations, and yes, I do say it with a

24:40

hard g write me a letter, um.

24:44

But you know, not everybody is on board

24:46

necessarily. Some people are still worried. You've

24:48

got a little bit of benevolent sexism going

24:50

on. In nineteen o five, Dr

24:53

Charles Edward Woodriff wrote in

24:55

his book The Effects of Tropical

24:57

Light on White Men, which is that a prequel

24:59

to a tropic of cancer? Well?

25:03

No, literally, yes, because

25:05

sunlight is a precursor

25:08

to melanoma. Oh my gosh, look

25:10

what we just was a really extended pun and I am

25:12

proud of us. Yeah, we should be. You should be

25:15

anyway, So wood Re wrote, the American

25:17

girl is a bundle of nerves. She is

25:19

a victim of too much

25:22

light. But he would prove to be

25:24

in the minority because what

25:27

helped bring aside

25:29

from just you know, the lower classes moving

25:31

into the factories, would helped bring a nice

25:34

tan, a nice flush into

25:37

popularity, was you know,

25:40

the entire freaking medical community.

25:42

Yeah. So, in the early twentieth century,

25:45

doctors started realizing how

25:47

sunlight and the vitamin D that

25:50

we get from it can be really

25:52

healthy for us, particularly

25:54

to treat tuberculosis and

25:57

rickets, and ricketts is one of those old timing

25:59

diseases. Yes, Caroline, I did have to google

26:02

to make sure I understood what rickets is.

26:04

Um And essentially it's a bone softening

26:07

disorder. Yeah, because you don't get enough of

26:09

that vitamin D well vitamin D, but

26:11

also you're not getting enough nutritious foods,

26:14

you're not getting enough calcium um.

26:17

It would often kids with rickets would

26:19

often have horrific problems with their legs

26:21

being misshapen. Uh.

26:24

So you you get this this

26:26

rush of the medical community

26:29

basically prescribing sunshine to people, which

26:31

sounds really nice, but people were

26:33

winning Nobel prizes over it. In nineteen o three,

26:36

Nils Finson won the Nobel

26:38

Prize in Medicine by treating skin ulcers

26:40

caused by lupus vulgaris, which is a condition

26:43

linked to TV, with heliotherapy.

26:46

And that same year in Switzerland we get the first

26:48

hospital treating tuberculous as with sun

26:51

exposure opening and doctors

26:53

started to figure out the scientific basis

26:55

of heliotherapy in the nineteen

26:57

twenties when they discover uv

27:00

lights role in creating vitamin D

27:02

and then for another Nobel Prize.

27:06

We have Aidolf wind House earning

27:08

the Nobel Prize in chemistry for linking

27:11

vitamin D with Ricketts

27:13

treatment. And I mean sunlight

27:16

was seen as a preventive measure. Two kids

27:18

were sent to preventoriums.

27:21

I love it, I know, I want to go, which

27:24

were institutions that provided sit

27:27

kiddos with good food, fresh

27:29

air, and sunlight, like I

27:31

do want to go to there. So they basically sent them

27:33

to summer camp, but fancier

27:36

and more relaxing, no color wars,

27:38

and good less pressure than having

27:40

to like swim the lifeline. Um,

27:43

let's bring back the preventorium.

27:45

I'm dude, I'm all for it, which

27:47

really just sounds like I need to build a greenhouse outside

27:50

of the office and gets sitting it for a couple of hours in order

27:52

some pizza. Right, totally take

27:54

my lactaid first. In nineteen thirty

27:57

eight, Herman Bundieson, who

27:59

was the president of the Chicago Board of Health,

28:01

really emphasized how important sunlight was

28:03

for children. Uh He said, no deficiencies

28:06

that developing children are of greater significance

28:09

than those caused by lack of sunlight. I

28:11

would argue there are some bigger problems

28:14

that kids could face, But now just sunlight

28:17

Caroline Ah. He continued

28:19

on. He said, when it shines on a child,

28:21

it helps his bones and teeth to form properly

28:23

and promotes the quality and circulation of his

28:25

blood. The sun bath is just

28:27

as important as the water bath, which

28:30

reminds me of our Betty

28:32

Page episode because Betty Page

28:34

was such a fan of uh sun

28:36

baths in the news. Yes,

28:39

well, and that does kind of tie into

28:42

our next fact about how sunlight

28:45

starts becoming prescribed as treatments

28:47

for all kinds of things including anemia,

28:50

syphilis, heart disease,

28:53

cancer which little ironic

28:55

there, stomach problems, and also issues

28:57

with hormones, arthritis, skin,

28:59

and vagina's And I'm just wondering

29:02

what the exact heliotherapy

29:05

prescription would be for your vagina. Yeah,

29:07

you can't use the phrase where the sun don't

29:09

shine anymore? Yeah, because it's like, do you

29:12

do you try to get sunlight on the vagina because

29:14

that would be hard because I think

29:17

they mean volva And I just

29:19

have a lot of questions now. I Yeah, when you talk

29:21

about solving gynecological problems

29:23

with the sun, what exactly are you referring

29:26

to just put you volva under

29:28

a heat lamp, all your problems

29:30

will go away. Uh,

29:34

but you know, not everybody was on board. The

29:36

New England Journal of Medicine in night

29:39

their editors reviewed the book Ultra

29:41

Violet Raise in the Treatment and Cure

29:43

of Disease and they dismissed

29:45

it as really nothing more than a giant ad for

29:47

UV lamps and said that they hoped

29:50

the quote unquote lady did not get

29:52

their hands on it. But any

29:55

concerns regarding skin cancer

29:57

at this time, we're ignored.

30:00

Any concerns about this stuff

30:02

just being a bunch of fancy snake oil, We're

30:04

ignored. And all were

30:06

outweighed by the perceived benefits.

30:08

Oh yeah, esteemed medical journal The

30:11

Lancet declared in nineteen the

30:13

face browned by the sun is

30:16

regarded as an index of health.

30:18

And note though, I mean like we can, you can peel

30:20

apart so many layers

30:23

in just in that statement of the face

30:25

browned by the sun is good, not

30:27

face if you're born with the brown face

30:31

not so good. Yeah, the face browned

30:33

by genetics, that was not They didn't

30:35

include that. So therefore you

30:38

get a tan that means you're

30:40

in good health, which means you're

30:42

beautiful. Yeah. And speaking of beauty,

30:45

we gotta get over to fashion and

30:47

hop to the lady who,

30:50

in pretty much any popular

30:52

history of tanning that you read, will be cited

30:55

as the one responsible for

30:58

getting us all to the b each

31:00

and sun burning ourselves. Accidentally,

31:03

that's Coco Chanel, of course. Yeah,

31:06

she of the tweed and pearls and

31:08

Nazi sympathizing. True. Yeah,

31:11

that's everything you love is problematic. Um.

31:13

In nineteen twenty nine, miss

31:16

Chanelle caught a little bit too much sun

31:18

while cruising around the French riviera. As

31:20

you do, as you do, you can't help it, and

31:22

her take on it shrug. A girl

31:25

simply has to be tan, and

31:27

a golden tan is the index of

31:29

chic. And we were

31:31

looking at a study that analyzed

31:34

ads and articles in Harper's

31:36

Bazar and Vogue, and it

31:39

was astonishing to see the

31:42

upswing just between like nineteen

31:44

seven and nineteen twenty nine and the number

31:47

of tanning related ads and

31:49

also tanning related articles.

31:52

UM. Back in nine three, Vogue

31:55

advertised its first tanning

31:57

lamp, but those kind of ads were really few

31:59

and far. But tween until that

32:01

pivotal moment. In for

32:04

instance, that same year, British

32:06

Vogue declared, pay attention,

32:09

Carol, Okay, this is

32:11

the backless age. There

32:13

is no single smarter gesture than

32:16

to have every low backed costume

32:18

cut exactly on the same lines,

32:21

so that each one makes a perfect frame

32:24

for a smooth brown back. M

32:28

hmm, yeah, well, I mean

32:30

swimsuits. Are they talking about clothes

32:33

or swimsuits? I don't know. I mean, I think they're just

32:35

saying, like, avoid tan lines and

32:37

and get get a tan you

32:40

pasty white jerks. I

32:42

mean because I asked that because

32:44

over the course of the twenties and thirties we have

32:47

stats people swimsuits

32:49

were shrinking. Skin exposure jumped

32:52

from eight percent for women for

32:54

men to a scandalous

32:57

of the skin expose. Man, I would

33:00

it be nice if swimsuits still

33:02

just revealed for scent of our skin. So

33:05

the same year British Vogue

33:08

declared the backless age, don't

33:10

you know, American Vogue

33:12

had a four page spread describing

33:15

clothes, makeup and accessories

33:17

to best show off tanned

33:19

skin. And they said, from

33:22

a chic note, sunburn

33:24

became a trend, then an established

33:26

fashion and now the entire feminine

33:29

world is sunburned conscious. Yeah.

33:31

Similarly, in the same year, June

33:33

Harper's Bizarre had an issue

33:36

titled shall We Gild the Lily, which

33:38

began with the assertion, there is

33:40

no doubt about it, if you haven't

33:43

a tanned look about you, you aren't

33:45

part of the rage of the moment.

33:48

Well, and who is the audience

33:50

for these magazines? Wealthy

33:53

white women, women who can afford

33:56

to change out their fashion, go to

33:58

the beach or wherever they might be to

34:01

have the rage of the moment look.

34:04

And it really only increases as

34:07

people have more disposable income. I mean, the

34:10

tanning fat is really inextricably

34:12

linked with socio

34:14

economics. Yeah, but I mean

34:16

again, the people who are reading

34:18

these high fashion magazines, being

34:21

those fair skinned, hooper

34:24

class white ladies, are the ones

34:26

who shouldn't be unprotected in

34:28

the sun. And so at this time, the same

34:31

time that we're seeing this backless trend,

34:33

in this tanning trend take off, we're

34:36

also collecting growing evidence

34:38

in the medical community that UV

34:41

radiation leads to tumor growth

34:43

in animals. And you get more studies that associate

34:45

UV rays with skin cancer in humans,

34:48

and by the we're

34:50

seeing this huge increase in melanoma, which

34:52

continues to rise throughout

34:54

the twentieth century, and non

34:57

melanoma skin cancer becomes

34:59

the most common cancer in the

35:03

world in the twentieth

35:05

century. But that doesn't stop anyone

35:08

from getting out in the sun. Yeah, I mean, because who

35:10

doesn't want to be the rage of the moment? I mean that

35:12

weighed against cancer. I

35:15

mean, come on, I think that. I think Vogue

35:17

wins. Obviously you gotta

35:19

die of something, right, Oh god,

35:22

this podcast just got so bleak. Yeah,

35:24

totally. So let's go to France for

35:27

paid vacation UM. France

35:29

introduced paid vacations in the thirties

35:32

and by the forties this had

35:34

spread and you see increased travel,

35:37

outdoor activities and pop culture

35:39

that's even more favorable to tanning

35:42

and also revealing clothes and swimsuits.

35:45

And you probably see this permeating pop

35:47

culture as well, whether it's films

35:49

that take place on the beach and showmen and

35:51

women around pools being glamorous

35:54

in their swimsuits. UM

35:56

or of course you know you have your your

35:58

fashion magazines are teaching you exactly

36:01

how you should look well in NTE.

36:04

Hello, war fabric rations

36:07

meant that women swimwear had

36:09

to shrink by ten per

36:12

cent. And this swimsuit shrinkage

36:14

opens the door to something you and I have talked about

36:17

on the podcast before, Kristen, the eventual

36:19

invention of the bikini in nine

36:22

which this leaves eighty

36:24

percent of your skin open

36:27

to the sun, and so you've got so

36:30

much more skin to tan, so many

36:32

more outfits to feature all of that non

36:35

genetic brown skin. And listen, during

36:37

World War Two, ladies were

36:39

busy. Rose of the riveters didn't necessarily

36:42

have time to go to the beach and go get

36:44

a tan directly from the sun. So during

36:46

the war, women would actually rely on tea

36:48

bags to stain their

36:51

skin. And apparently in Britain there

36:53

was some marmite ish

36:55

sounding paste or bullion

36:58

that they would use. They would so their legs

37:00

in that people soup, people

37:02

soup, We're just making people soup. They

37:05

soak their legs, legs and soil and green

37:08

and no, it just sounds like let's fill up

37:10

the hot tub, throw in some boolly

37:12

on cubes and let's all go for a soak.

37:14

Yeah, it's horrifying. Again, this podcast

37:17

got so dark. Yeah, exactly

37:19

panning. So

37:22

in the fifties, though in the in the post

37:24

World War two era, we're like, hey,

37:27

the g I s are coming home. You

37:29

probably already have a tan because you've been outside

37:31

a lot. But let's let's replicate

37:34

that trenched tan. Yes, you

37:36

have man tan in the fifties,

37:39

which is the first commercially available

37:41

self tanner, I believe for men, especially designed

37:43

for men, which especially designed is in quotes

37:46

because it's probably the exact same thing is what

37:48

was being sold to women, but maybe smelled differently.

37:51

Um, and it promised to be moisturizing and

37:53

long lasting. Yeah, it just smells

37:55

like pine trees and cigarettes. It's

37:58

like Don Draper's office oppression.

38:02

Uh. Well, by the nineteen sixties, you

38:05

know, we we've we've seen the

38:07

subtext here is the rising middle class, the

38:09

rise of leisure, the rise of vacations,

38:11

and so by the nineteen sixties people have

38:14

enough money to enjoy color films so you better

38:16

look good, and commercial air

38:18

travel, and by the seventies

38:20

the world economy was tanking thanks

38:23

war. Uh. Sunless

38:25

tanning really takes the place of all

38:27

of those Mediterranean vacations that

38:29

people in Europe, specifically we're taking

38:32

nineteen seventy eight tanning beds get introduced,

38:34

and the first one, which I never knew

38:36

in the US, opens in Arkansas.

38:39

Walmart and

38:42

tanning beds. Oh Arkansas

38:44

listeners. Hey, And

38:46

if you jumped to nine eight one, you've got

38:48

about ten new tanning centers opening

38:51

in the US each week. By

38:56

in the US alone, you

38:58

have eighteen thous and

39:00

tanning centers. Oh yeah, that's

39:02

a lot of tanning. And

39:05

typically, like nowadays, you look around and

39:07

tanning there they are next to Walmarts.

39:09

You've got like a Walmart in a nail place

39:12

and a tanning place and a radio shack.

39:14

Oh the radio shack. I

39:17

like my dad, I think there's some still open.

39:19

Okay, because Chad goes there.

39:22

Someone let us know about radio shack. Um.

39:25

Yeah. Growing up in a college town,

39:28

there were tanning salons everywhere

39:32

everywhere. But I feel like now Caroline,

39:35

where we are in town

39:37

in Atlanta, were likelier to see

39:40

more spray tan outlets than

39:42

we are tanning bed spots

39:45

or places that do both. Yeah,

39:48

I don't know, I'm just kind of talking well, I mean, I

39:50

think I don't know from what I've

39:52

observed in kind of

39:54

bougier neighborhoods you're likely to see spray

39:57

tan. Yeah, well,

39:59

I mean more class issues that we can

40:01

dive into. It doesn't stop

40:03

people, It don't stop you can't. Sunscreen

40:06

won't protect you against

40:08

the rest of this episode. Yes, because

40:11

we're not done in the nineteen eighties.

40:14

You've got all of that glamorous, like eighties

40:16

crazy makeup, which includes a lot of Bronzers.

40:19

So the popularity of bronzers economic

40:21

boom times mean people are

40:23

taking those glamorous beach getaway packages,

40:26

which essentially means that tanning remains

40:28

a necessity through the next couple of

40:30

decades. And by the two thousand,

40:34

uh British people in a survey, fifty

40:37

percent of them said that getting a tan was

40:39

the most important reason for going on vacation.

40:42

Oh yeah, I mean I remember

40:44

so well, just laying out on my parents

40:47

patio because we didn't have a pool

40:49

membership, and just sweating and sweating

40:51

and sweating and

40:53

trying to enjoy it. I remember reading The Unabridged

40:56

lamb Is one summer because it was reading

40:58

for my English class,

41:01

Humble Bragg, and

41:04

just baking myself outside.

41:07

Yeah, well, I remember laying

41:10

when I hit puberty and had some really

41:12

bad skin issues. I was encouraged

41:14

to get some sun to help the

41:17

zits go away. Little

41:19

did I know that, wow, because

41:21

we we talked about this in our acne

41:23

episode that while yes, the sun can

41:25

help fade some of

41:28

those acne marks, it

41:30

actually only makes them kind of come back with a vengeance

41:33

because the sun inflames the skin, and

41:35

any corrective like quote

41:37

unquote treatment the sun has for acne is

41:39

really more effective on that youthful

41:42

acne, not so much for the adult

41:44

hormonal acne. So jokes on me

41:47

and my fine lines and wrinkles and the

41:49

sun can be such a jerk sometimes

41:52

sometimes Um. But speaking

41:55

of age differences, we

41:58

have a lot more information to cover and we

42:00

want to dive into some demographics and all

42:02

of that class issue stuff that we've been hinting

42:04

at when we come right back from

42:06

a quick break. So

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com enter stuff. And

43:00

now back to the show. So,

43:08

as we mentioned at the top of the podcast,

43:10

the number one tanning demographic,

43:13

specifically when we're talking about tanning

43:16

beds are white

43:18

girls. Young white girls. Yeah,

43:20

that's right. Studies have shown that

43:23

white teen girls

43:25

of a higher socio economic status

43:27

are the most likely to

43:30

tan both indoors and

43:32

out. And I'm going to admit I

43:35

was actually surprised by the higher

43:37

socio economic status

43:39

aspect of that. And and maybe

43:42

that's judging of me, and I certainly don't want to sound

43:44

like I'm passing judgment,

43:46

but I I do feel like I nowadays

43:49

read in magazines and

43:51

blogs so much about

43:53

protecting your skin and not

43:56

tanning either. In a tanning booth or outside,

43:58

you know, stick to self. Tanner is if you want to get darker.

44:01

Um that there was just like

44:03

my gut when I read that stat was

44:06

like, oh I I

44:08

didn't realize like there was such

44:10

a drive. But then again,

44:12

this is possibly due to an

44:15

age difference thing. Yeah. I mean, rich

44:17

girls aren't necessarily smarter

44:19

about their skin. They can probably afford

44:21

a dermatologist and good makeup,

44:24

but if they are, for instance, in

44:26

a sorority, there's a

44:28

pretty good chance that they will also tan. I

44:31

mean, I think it's also like your you're in

44:33

group beauty standards, if everyone

44:35

around you has a tan, then

44:37

you're probably gonna get called the pale girl. And

44:40

I know that's not a personal experience, although

44:42

I'm sure I've been called the pale girl, but that

44:45

is my experience. Um,

44:47

So there's there's probably a little bit of

44:49

a pure aspect in there, and it

44:51

takes disposable income to chan. I

44:53

remember when

44:56

I tanned my senior year of high school,

44:58

which I know I'm going to regret like already

45:01

with certain freckles that I have. Um,

45:04

I've had to pay for it myself. My parents

45:06

were like, listen, we're not going to pay for this for

45:08

you, and it was pricey.

45:10

I should have saved my money, Caroline.

45:13

But young kids, I

45:15

know, not to sound like an old, but

45:17

they don't know better in terms of

45:20

feeling invincible. Oh totally.

45:22

My mom warned me every single

45:24

summer because all I wanted was a tan so

45:27

that I could look, you know, to get that social

45:29

cred that comes with it. Every

45:32

single time she would warn me about

45:35

getting sunburned and sun damage

45:37

because in her generation, you would

45:39

sit out with the those foil

45:42

reflective place Sally used

45:45

baby oil. Oh yeah, so did nance.

45:47

Yeah. I can't imagine

45:51

speaking as someone who fell asleep

45:53

face down on the beach one time and

45:57

like couldn't wear real clothes for the rest

45:59

of the summer because my back was so blistered.

46:02

Yeah. Like, I'm going to have to answer

46:04

for that at some point because and I mean,

46:06

like, I don't want to keep going on and on. But the

46:09

reason that you now are seeing more and more states

46:11

passing regulations against younger and younger

46:14

people visiting tanning booths is

46:17

because that early sun damage

46:19

early early like early teens,

46:21

especially blistering sunburns, is a

46:24

super major significant

46:27

predictor of skin cancer. Not

46:29

to mention just all of the wrinkles and sun spots

46:31

that you're going to get. And so it's

46:33

kind of frightening when you read that two point

46:36

three million teens

46:39

use tanning booths tanning

46:41

indoors every year and they're probably

46:43

vaping while they do it. Kids

46:46

these days vaping and

46:48

the CDC in May found

46:51

that it's interesting that regionally

46:53

they found that the people the women tanning

46:55

the most were in the Midwest and the South.

46:57

I'm not surprised. From eighteen to

47:01

and for most of these people, men and women

47:03

alike, it was a regular habit. These people

47:05

reported going to a tanning bed ten

47:07

or more times in the past year,

47:09

and they're likely supplementing their tanning bed

47:12

experience. You know, Kristen, you talked about seeing

47:14

a lot more spray tanning places. The

47:17

things go hand in hand. People who use self

47:19

tanners are two and a half times more

47:22

likely to use tanning beds and

47:24

get five or more sunburns during the summer.

47:27

So these are clearly people though, who are hyper

47:29

focused on changing

47:32

the color of their skin. Well, those

47:34

people could say, listen, I've got research

47:37

to back up my tanning habit because

47:41

it makes me look more attractive. UM.

47:43

There was a June study in the Journal

47:45

Pediatric Health which found that

47:49

our motivations for tanning tend

47:51

to do with looking better and

47:53

young people also cited relaxation,

47:56

mood enhancement because it does release those

47:58

endorphins, and also socializing.

48:00

There's the peer influence aspect you

48:02

want to fit in. Um

48:04

And it also cited a study of college

48:07

students that found that what their friends

48:09

thought and the desire to appear

48:11

attractive had more to do

48:14

with it than a desire to look healthy.

48:16

And that's no surprise. Yeah, I was

48:18

praised as a child. It was it's so sick,

48:21

but but sally definitely. I remember,

48:23

you know, I'd come up from the beach as a

48:26

young kid and hop

48:28

out of the shower and my mom would be like,

48:30

oh, sweetie, you are brown as a

48:32

berry, and she thought

48:34

it looks so good on her, on her pale little

48:36

child. And I was like, yeah, I'm hot.

48:39

I mean I didn't think that, but um.

48:41

This other study of college students found

48:44

that when orientations toward

48:46

and that just means like you have a higher interest

48:48

in doing or pursuing orientations

48:52

toward appearance outdoors, social

48:54

norms and perceived consensus increased

48:57

the attitudes towards sunbathing

48:59

be aim more positive.

49:02

And I mean, in case we haven't hammered this home

49:04

enough, a two thousand eight Journal of Health Psychology

49:06

study found a significant association

49:08

between tanning bad behavior and popular

49:11

peer crowd identification. And you've

49:13

got the same basic idea for self

49:16

tanners, except this time. In

49:18

this particular study, it was participants

49:20

romantic partners support for

49:22

a tanned look that positively reinforced

49:25

self tanning behaviors. I mean this that

49:27

does harken back to Jersey Shore Jim

49:30

tan laundry. Yeah, but I mean at least they're neat

49:32

right there doing their laundry. And

49:34

the thing is we, whether

49:37

we are actively tanning ourselves or not,

49:39

do perceive tanned faces

49:42

as prettier. This was some

49:44

research reported on by ABC News.

49:47

Um there was a study out of

49:49

Emory University which used Homeman

49:52

a real throwback website Hot

49:54

or Not, posting pictures

49:56

of the same person but with one

49:59

version tan and one version pale,

50:02

and the Tanner version received

50:05

twice as high of an attractiveness

50:08

rating compared to the pale one. Yeah,

50:11

Dr Audrey Coon and who's a dermatologist

50:14

and founder of Derma Doctor, Inc. Told ABC

50:16

News that yeah, I mean I hate it, but

50:19

basically people think tan folks

50:21

are more attractive and healthier looking, and it's

50:23

super hard to get somebody to stop

50:26

doing something that makes them feel better, especially

50:28

younger people. She says, younger folks have a hard

50:31

time seeing themselves as getting older

50:33

and having to deal with these risks. I know

50:36

I did. I was like, I look great, now, what's

50:38

the issue? But then you

50:40

know, you do look around and you

50:42

look for that Uh there's something

50:45

about Mary character on the beach and let

50:47

that be let that serve as a warning

50:49

of the ghost of Christmas Tan,

50:52

future Tan Christmas

50:54

sunburned. Well. Yeah. And and Mark Leary,

50:57

who's a professor of psychology

50:59

and neuroscience that duke basically

51:01

says that, yeah, the Tan has not lost

51:03

that chanel significance even

51:06

though it's a hundred years old. She says, we just he

51:08

says, we just haven't lost it as a signifier

51:11

of a leisure class yet. And

51:14

Autumn Whitfield Madran, no friend of

51:16

the podcast writer of the Beheld,

51:19

focuses a lot on beauty issues. She

51:22

says, not only does it

51:24

serve as a sign of affluence and health,

51:27

but it's also the perfect accessory.

51:29

She says, it's the sweet spot between

51:32

conspicuous and inconspicuous

51:34

consumption. Yeah. I loved her description

51:37

as it being the ultimate expression of oh,

51:39

this whole thing, and it's

51:41

true. Yeah, I mean, and I

51:43

totally agree with the Duke

51:45

professor that it's still a

51:48

marker of leisure, class

51:50

and all of all of those

51:53

all those issues I think are still embedded

51:55

pretty deeply within it, whether you

51:57

are getting a tan out in the sun

51:59

or are going to get a spray tan. Because

52:01

also I think the very seasonality of

52:04

it supports

52:07

the class element. Yeah,

52:09

because like I have definitely

52:12

looked at tan friends before. You know,

52:14

you come in Monday and you've got a little bit

52:16

of color. I've definitely looked at tan friends before and

52:18

thought like, oh

52:20

man, you had time to go to the pool this weekend,

52:23

and you know, for me, like I could probably be out for five

52:25

minutes in term beat red, I'm so freaking pale

52:27

and shiny. But just the idea

52:30

of like, oh god, you had

52:32

time to like sit down by a body

52:34

of water, maybe you read a book, like

52:37

I fantasize about us your time,

52:39

like maybe you had time to read a book and have

52:41

a cocktail and enjoy

52:43

the sun and some conversation. Maybe

52:45

a beach ball was involved or some floaties.

52:47

That sounds wonderful. But on the flip side,

52:50

if someone shows up in the winter time,

52:53

and again this is this has been a super white

52:55

conversation, and I'd say that this is another white

52:57

observation. If

53:00

someone shows up in the summertime or in the winter, excuse

53:02

me, when we're supposed to be all pasty

53:04

and she's supertan or he's supertan.

53:07

Because I have a gentleman friend

53:09

who tan's in the winter as

53:11

well, is usually perceived

53:13

a little more trashy than classy.

53:16

I would argue, like, what are you trying to prove? Yeah,

53:19

like, mmmmm, I don't know about I don't know about that,

53:22

And I wish there were more studies like on that whole

53:24

that line that we we

53:26

did. Listeners, like, try to find

53:29

some scholarly insight on that

53:31

whole Tanning spectrum.

53:33

Classy to quote unquote trashy

53:36

because it's very much there,

53:38

but it doesn't make a ton of sense. Um.

53:42

So anyway, scholars listening, if

53:45

you if you need to study. There's

53:47

one. But going back here line to the very

53:49

beginning of our conversation where you mentioned the

53:52

tan mom, there can

53:54

be some mental health issues associated

53:57

with a tanning obsession, you

53:59

know, the person who has to be tan um.

54:01

That same pediatric health study we just cited

54:04

found that thirty of young people showed

54:06

a level of tanning dependence similar

54:09

to other substance abuse addictions.

54:12

Yeah, and a Journal of the American Academy

54:14

of Dermatology study from found

54:17

links between excessive tanning

54:19

and body dysmorphic disorder

54:22

and o c D. And those things make

54:24

sense to me. I mean, like body dysmorphic

54:26

disorder A lot of times that shows up as obsessions

54:28

with weight, but you also see that

54:31

translating into obsessive plastic

54:33

surgery, obsessive botox, So

54:35

it makes sense that tanning would be linked with that.

54:38

It's also, according to a behavioral

54:40

medicine study, linked with higher

54:43

appearance orientation and

54:45

depression. So appearance orientation

54:47

meaning just a hyper focus on

54:50

your appearance. And

54:53

it makes sense though that people who are hyper

54:55

focused on their appearance are going to do things

54:57

like we mentioned that they perceive will

54:59

make more attractive and As

55:02

for the depression link, which mainly

55:04

they found was associated with indoor

55:06

tanning, researchers right that

55:08

users could be unknowingly self

55:10

medicating to feel that relaxation

55:14

effect, that rush of endorphins, and

55:16

so researchers wonder whether

55:18

depressive symptoms might inhibit people

55:21

from wanting to go hang out on a beach in a bathing

55:24

suit and instead opt to do indoor

55:26

tanning privately get that boost of

55:28

endorphins. Because conversely, they

55:30

found people with better body image

55:33

were more likely to go sunbathe outside around

55:35

a million people rather than just stay

55:37

indoor tanning. Yeah, I mean, And further

55:39

research has found that while

55:42

we might be likelier to ignore

55:44

those cancer warnings, women

55:47

are very much vigilant

55:49

about the son's aging

55:51

effects because oh my

55:53

gosh, you we're talking about beauty standards. I

55:56

mean, women who look older

55:59

are usually devalued in that

56:01

way, right, And so I mean, I think that

56:03

kind of holds the key in terms

56:05

of deep tanning being a

56:07

trend and how do you break skin cancer

56:10

from trending. Unfortunately,

56:13

a lot of that doesn't go to like, hey,

56:16

you might be one of those statistics

56:18

who get skin cancer and dies

56:21

because researchers have found that that backfires.

56:24

It seems like kind of the key

56:26

perhaps to anti tanning

56:28

and skin safety campaigns really

56:31

lies in like, hey,

56:33

you're gonna be wrinkly

56:36

and then you're not going to be pretty. You're not gonna

56:38

be pretty, so watch

56:40

out where a wide brimmed hat. And the good

56:42

thing is hats are very in right now. Um,

56:45

but we also have the government stepping

56:47

in because we

56:50

obviously like can't abstain from

56:52

this very unhealthy habit. So

56:55

at this point, twelve states actually banned

56:57

tanning better use for people under eighteen,

57:00

and forty two states regulate

57:02

tanning bed use by miners in general.

57:05

Um, sun lamps now have to carry

57:07

black box warnings saying that people under

57:09

eighteen shouldn't use them. Although I mean,

57:12

really any age

57:15

shouldn't that be a thing kind of like

57:17

you know, warnings on cigarettes. It's exactly

57:19

well, that's the logic. It's exactly like the warning

57:21

on cigarettes, because unless you're

57:24

what was it California who just raised the age

57:26

to twenty one for buying cigarettes? I think California.

57:28

Yeah, I think it's California. But like Georgia,

57:30

for instance, like fourteen

57:32

is the minimum age for

57:35

using tanning beds, but you have to be accompanied

57:37

by a parent. Blows mat frick in mind.

57:39

Does that have anything to do with like our like high

57:42

number of competitive cheerleading

57:44

squads. I don't know what it is. I mean in Georgia,

57:46

I recently learned you can also get married at sixteen

57:49

with parental consent. So there's

57:51

just a lot of issues here. Um, but

57:54

okay. In the Affordable

57:56

Care Act included a ten percent tax

57:58

on indoor tanning so vises. And

58:01

I did not I miss this whole news

58:04

trend on Maybe it was just like the more conservative

58:06

side of the internet. Apparently

58:09

a lot of people said, you know what,

58:11

Obama, that's racist. That

58:14

is a racist tax because

58:16

white people are primarily the ones who

58:18

use these indoor tanning beds. And

58:22

that ain't flying. Obama, We we got you on

58:24

this one. Thanks Obama, Thanks Obama.

58:27

Yeah. That that sound you heard when Christen was

58:29

talking was my brain exploding.

58:32

Um. Yeah, there was an Atlantic article, because

58:34

there's one on everything, there was one on tanning

58:37

and the politics of it. And

58:40

they did talk to a tanning salon exec

58:43

who was just outraged

58:45

by the federal regulations encroaching

58:48

on Americans

58:50

rote to use tanning beds well

58:53

also do a Midwestern accent caroline.

58:55

It's not just a self I don't know if I can,

58:57

can you? Oh no, just

59:00

psycho um. But I

59:03

have a feeling that what will be

59:05

a far more powerful force

59:07

than the f d A to steer

59:10

us away from tanning and damaging our

59:12

skin is the fashion world.

59:14

I mean, if Coco Chanel is the one who

59:17

brought it in Vogue, then it's probably

59:19

gonna take a comparable fashion

59:22

magnate to get

59:24

it out of Vogue. And some would argue

59:27

that that's already taking place. You have Verina

59:30

Van Fetton, who I think was the editor

59:32

in chief of Stylite in two

59:34

thousand eight, way back when,

59:37

now saying Tan is the new tacky,

59:39

comparing them to ugs

59:42

hug boots. I mean really honestly,

59:44

half of the post was just about her adred of

59:46

ug boots um. But also she

59:48

she doesn't like Tan's, associating

59:51

them with more of a Jersey Shore type

59:53

culture. And then a little more recently

59:55

in USA Today

59:58

said that a copper tune complexion isn't

1:00:00

looking so fresh this summer season.

1:00:03

And I mean even just among anecdotally conversations

1:00:07

with my lady friends. It

1:00:10

might be partially an issue of Welcome to

1:00:12

thirty, but we are far

1:00:14

more into complimenting

1:00:16

each other's fair skin

1:00:19

tones, um and slathering

1:00:23

on sunscreen and wearing wide brimmed

1:00:25

hats, certainly more than we

1:00:27

used to be. Yeah, I

1:00:30

need to be so

1:00:32

much better about wearing daily sunscreen.

1:00:35

I mean, I'm great about it if I'm going to the pool,

1:00:37

going for a hike, anything like that, you know,

1:00:39

extended out or exposure, But I am

1:00:41

so bad about the day to day

1:00:44

sunscreen use. That's just why I carry

1:00:46

a ski mask with me. I just pop

1:00:48

that on any time I got That's the thing with women

1:00:50

in China. That was also mentioned in some of the articles

1:00:52

we read, and that was not so much an issue

1:00:55

of I want to look like a white person,

1:00:58

but again related to the

1:01:00

issue of the

1:01:02

paler skin is a marker of

1:01:05

breeding, high class

1:01:07

status. Where's the darker skin in

1:01:10

China still signifies outdoor labor and

1:01:12

Caroline, I think that segues as perfectly

1:01:16

into our next episode, which is going to be a sort

1:01:18

of the flip side of all of this and a conversation

1:01:21

about colorism. Because all of these

1:01:23

elements we've been talking about in terms of the

1:01:25

socioeconomics, racism, etcetera,

1:01:28

that have played a part in today's conversation UM

1:01:30

are sort of a foundation for

1:01:33

what we're going to chat about next time. So

1:01:35

listeners, now, we want

1:01:37

to know about your tanning politics, what

1:01:40

has resonated with you

1:01:42

and is there anyone listening who works

1:01:44

for a spray tan salon who does the spraying,

1:01:47

because I really want to hear from you and know

1:01:49

what it is like to airbrush other people's

1:01:51

bodies. Yeah, and I do.

1:01:54

The women at the Atlanta spray

1:01:56

tan place that I went to, you guys

1:01:58

were so nice. I've only heard

1:02:01

feedback like that from other girlfriends

1:02:03

of mine who have gotten spray tans. They

1:02:06

were so nice and it was a great experience, and

1:02:08

let me tell you, I loved it. I

1:02:10

can wear less makeup when

1:02:13

I have color on my face because

1:02:16

I am so pale, so my dark circles

1:02:18

just like pop out, my

1:02:20

my acne scars pop out.

1:02:23

So when I have a little bit of color, it's like such

1:02:25

a breath of fresh air, fresh tanning

1:02:28

juice laden air. So

1:02:31

send us ya let us. Moms

1:02:34

house stuff Works dot Com is our email address.

1:02:36

You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or

1:02:38

messages on Facebook, and we've got

1:02:40

a couple of messages to share with you right

1:02:43

now. So

1:02:47

I've got a letter here from Becca

1:02:49

about our change Makers

1:02:52

series that we ran throughout

1:02:54

March to celebrate Women's History Month.

1:02:57

She writes, thank you for the Maker Series,

1:02:59

Curly. I'm working to open my own

1:03:01

small business and I love listening

1:03:03

to you keep me sane and connected with the

1:03:05

outside world while I knit so an

1:03:08

embroider. The Maker series was

1:03:10

so inspiring and gave me the motivation

1:03:12

to keep going even when I get overwhelmed.

1:03:15

I quit my job less Paul, and decided

1:03:17

to open my own business. After a friend and

1:03:19

fellow mom was diagnosed with pancreatic

1:03:21

cancer. She passed away nine

1:03:24

days later, leaving a loving husband,

1:03:27

three children in a huge hole in our community.

1:03:29

Regina Wilson's words about her experience

1:03:32

after nine eleven as a firefighter and

1:03:34

the precious and finite nature of

1:03:36

life touched so close.

1:03:39

I found myself crying in the kitchen after

1:03:41

Laura's passing. I vowed to dream big

1:03:44

and go for it. The podcast really

1:03:46

touched me in so many ways, and I just had to write

1:03:48

in so thank you and keep up the amazing

1:03:50

work and on behalf of Laura, I would like to

1:03:52

request an episode of any aspect

1:03:55

of cystic fibrosis. It was

1:03:57

her dream to find a cure. Well,

1:04:00

thank you so much, Becca, that means

1:04:02

so much for us to hear. And best

1:04:05

of luck building your business. Okay.

1:04:08

I have a letter here from Alyssa also

1:04:10

about our Makers series, this one specifically

1:04:13

about our episode talking to Abby wombach

1:04:16

Uh. She says, I related in a huge

1:04:18

way to some of the things you guys talked about with Abby

1:04:20

in your recent interview with her. I'm a junior

1:04:22

in college and an n C Double A Division two

1:04:25

athlete. I played golf for Lobbit Christian

1:04:27

University and Lobbitt Texas Go Chaps.

1:04:30

I've been very blessed with teachers and coaches

1:04:32

who are so encouraging and supportive of female

1:04:34

athletes, but I've experienced my share of sexism

1:04:36

as well. The n C Double A does a wonderful

1:04:39

job overall of making rules to make

1:04:41

sure that it's athletes don't receive special

1:04:43

treatments simply because they are athletes, but

1:04:45

they aren't as good at making sure we aren't

1:04:47

discriminated against. Unfortunately,

1:04:50

my biggest example of the sexism that I

1:04:52

have faced is from the n C Double A itself.

1:04:55

In the Heartland Conference within Division

1:04:57

two, all of the women's golf teams in

1:04:59

the conference good a big tournament to determine

1:05:01

who goes to the next level. If you're

1:05:03

on a men's team, the top few teams go on

1:05:05

to Super Region. If you're a lady

1:05:07

golfer, however, there is a board who

1:05:10

decides what teams move on past conference

1:05:12

once the tournament is over. I've

1:05:14

always almost jokingly claimed that I would write

1:05:16

a strongly worded letter about the blatant

1:05:18

sexism here, but I never got very

1:05:21

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