0:05

Hey, this is Anny and Samantha stuff.

0:07

I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and

0:19

today we are doing

0:21

an episode that was originally a Monday Mini

0:23

but it just got too big about

0:26

everything that's going on. Are some specific

0:28

things that are going on, excuse me, with abortion

0:31

in the United States recently in reproductive

0:33

rights in the United States, and a lot of it is changing

0:35

very rapidly. So today,

0:38

as we record this, the day is March

0:40

fifth, twenty twenty four.

0:43

I did write a lot of this about a week ago because again

0:45

I thought this was going to be a Monday Mini,

0:48

but I updated it today.

0:50

So is today sleeper Tuesday? Does

0:52

that mean things?

0:54

Does mean things? Oh?

0:57

Dear? Apparently get donuts.

0:59

But I think it's really important that I remember this voting

1:01

season, y'all, and this this should

1:03

impass. I think most of

1:05

our listeners already are on point, but just

1:08

a reminder.

1:09

This shows why it's so important because

1:12

a lot of this happened because Trump appointed

1:14

judges that did what he said.

1:15

They were going to do.

1:16

He's pretty much out ban abortion.

1:19

So YEAP voting

1:21

does matter. As frustrating as it can be

1:24

to hear that quick content warning,

1:27

there's going to be nothing to in depth but mentions

1:29

of rape and suicide. Also, this is a

1:31

very US focused episode,

1:34

but we would love to hear what is going on in

1:37

the US and around the world, because

1:39

you know, we're focusing kind of on

1:41

something pretty specific here, but

1:44

there's a there's a lot of ground that

1:46

we have been meaning to talk about and haven't.

1:49

Yeah, it's because of just scheduling and stuff. So

1:51

just let us know what's going on for you where you

1:54

are. And also, this is

1:56

a primer since it

1:58

was originally going to be a mini There's

2:01

a lot more we could go into with

2:04

all of this, because originally

2:06

I wanted to talk about the Comstock Act, but

2:10

it just became difficult to separate

2:12

that from everything else that's going

2:14

on and why we need to talk about the Comstock

2:17

Act. Okay, So, as

2:20

many of you probably heard, in February twenty twenty

2:22

four, the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that

2:24

frozen embryos count as children

2:27

essentially, Therefore, if

2:29

they are destroyed for whatever reason, people

2:31

can be tried for wrongful death of

2:34

this embryo. This decision obviously

2:36

has huge ramifications, and

2:38

it is part of a larger push for so

2:41

called fetal personhood.

2:44

I'm sorry that title just oh

2:46

my god. Yeah, it's so ridiculous

2:49

that you can't help, but like just scoff.

2:53

Yeah, Yeah, there's been a lot

2:55

of like you know, in the darkest

2:57

this dark time, there's been a lot of like those

3:00

that mean I can ride the carpool like

3:02

a lot.

3:03

Videos have been pretty priceless of like treating

3:08

little little embryo slash peachtree

3:11

dishes as as children.

3:14

Yes, right, but

3:17

states are going forward with this. Fourteen

3:20

states have introduced fetal

3:22

personhood pushes or

3:24

laws, and at least two have been enacted.

3:28

After this decision, Alabama's

3:30

fertility clinics were sent into

3:33

absolute chaos. Like legally, no one

3:35

was sure what was going on here. The

3:38

decision did use a lot of Western Christian

3:40

religious language, which is no surprise.

3:44

Companies have already stopped shipping

3:46

frozen embryos and multiple places have stopped

3:49

all IVF services

3:51

after this. And just

3:53

a reminder, all kinds of things

3:56

might cause someone to seek out IVF, including

3:58

infertility caused by cancer or a

4:01

bunch of other stuff, which I think is getting left

4:03

out a lot of some conversations,

4:05

but really it shouldn't matter that should just

4:07

be available to people. The case

4:09

was brought after some frozen embryos were

4:11

dropped and the potential parents in question

4:14

alleged that it constituted wrongful death. Essentially,

4:17

the parents in question had stopped

4:19

pursuing IVF,

4:22

but they wanted their embryos to stay frozen.

4:25

The patients somehow got into the freezer,

4:28

touched something and got like freezer burned

4:31

and knocked over some embryos.

4:32

And so the.

4:34

Parents' parents in this question

4:37

were suing

4:40

for wrongful death because of that.

4:42

Oh, so they themselves

4:44

over because they're not going to be able

4:46

to get the service at all. Yeah,

4:49

Oh,

4:51

they didn't.

4:52

They get through a lot of people didn't think things

4:54

through.

4:54

Which I feel like should be the tagline for

4:57

any of these flaws,

5:00

just saying they

5:02

didn't think this through. No, even

5:05

people haven't warned them, but they didn't.

5:08

No, sorry,

5:12

yes, Well, and then

5:15

it was so unpopular after this happened, and

5:18

people were freaking out rightfully so about

5:21

what it meant that even

5:23

Trump denounced it. A bunch

5:25

of other Republicans did too,

5:27

but these were like Trump appointed

5:30

judges that made the decision. Amy

5:33

Cony Barrett is on record supporting an organization

5:35

that agreed that embryo's constituted his people,

5:38

so again appointed by Trump. And

5:40

the sad fact is almost every Republican

5:42

supports IVF for certain

5:44

reasons. But they

5:47

allowed for this to happen and voted

5:49

for this, like they created the situation with

5:52

their extremist anti abortionarytoric,

5:54

like they the

5:56

environment they've been cultivating allowed

5:59

for this. And one

6:01

of the big issues, other than stripping people's rights

6:03

is just again, legally, how does this

6:05

look? Because

6:07

yeah, that means there's a

6:09

whole freezer of children, I guess,

6:12

And this means

6:14

that people have to pay to store

6:16

them forever.

6:18

Like, so what happens if I are

6:20

not viable?

6:21

We have to you have to keep them

6:24

so even.

6:24

Though they can never actually successfully

6:26

be Yes, true

6:28

fetuses like just women

6:30

are all going to be like we're all

6:33

about to be arrested.

6:35

I mean yes, because you and I were when we

6:37

were discussing this. We were talking

6:39

about which we'll talk about a bit more in a second. There's

6:43

already this push about using

6:46

contraceptives is killing

6:49

children. This could be

6:51

applied to so many other things.

6:55

And yes, from what I understand,

6:58

at least, how the law is now, which

7:00

they are trying to change

7:02

because they're all panicking again.

7:04

Didn't think it through that even

7:07

if you can't, you just can't throw away a

7:09

frozen embryo, it doesn't matter whatever

7:12

the case. So

7:14

that means that, yes, you have to pay for the storage

7:16

forever like it will pass on to the kids

7:19

like actual living kids around

7:22

their kids, And they

7:24

don't have an answer for what happens if the entire family

7:27

line dies out. If like that means the government has

7:29

to pay for them.

7:32

Yes, there have been

7:34

a lot of viral clips of conservatives who

7:37

championed this ruling realizing in real

7:39

time when they are saying that they

7:41

want more kids that A, I guess you have

7:43

them already a frozen embryos

7:45

count and that be This directly

7:47

negatively impacts IVF for people who are

7:49

actively trying for and desperately want kids.

7:52

So that's awful,

7:55

But that is only one piece of the damage here. There

7:58

are genetic tests that could be affected to some

8:00

providers will probably stop engaging in IVF

8:02

altogether because there is a risk of damaging embryos

8:05

in the process. And we are now talking about

8:07

a level of control and extremism that reveals

8:09

that, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about,

8:11

Like we've already known this, but this is very clear. But

8:14

apparently they're still realizing it, and

8:18

they they are

8:20

with the ones enabling this, and

8:23

they'll never change their tune because that's

8:25

just the problem with American politics, Like especially

8:28

for conservatives who have like held hands

8:30

with so many dangerous sex to get power,

8:32

even if their stances are largely

8:34

unpopular, right like, even if this

8:37

is largely unpopular.

8:39

You know, I'm wondering because we've talked about it in our Surrogacy

8:42

episode a little bit, but a lot

8:44

of these clinics are money makers, Like

8:46

this is, yeah, this is gonna hit

8:49

some businesses pretty

8:51

hard. I can't imagine

8:54

as pro capitalists, pro

8:57

money, pro corporation, that most

8:59

of these are publics are that

9:01

they're not going to get some real big like

9:03

pushback. Yeah the

9:06

money they're taking away.

9:08

Yeah, And we definitely are going

9:10

to talk about another example of that that is happening.

9:13

So I mean, don't

9:15

get me wrong, they are scrambling right now, but they're

9:17

trying to like they're

9:20

they're trying to walk this fine line of like,

9:22

oh well IVF for you know,

9:25

heterosexual couples

9:28

only for them, because then that's

9:30

good.

9:31

But otherwise no, But then.

9:35

What about the embryo though, because now you said

9:37

they're all people, they're all children.

9:40

Yeah,

9:52

all right, So one thing is IVF,

9:55

yes, is very expensive for

9:57

people who are seeking it out and really shouldn't

10:00

paused unless

10:02

that is what the patients want, like, but

10:04

if you want it to succeed, then it should be

10:07

paused, which is what is happening right

10:09

for people in Alabama.

10:10

Right as from MSNBC,

10:12

they say as a result of IVF, there are as

10:15

many as one point five million frozen

10:17

embryos in the country. The Alabama

10:19

decision might mean that some of these embryos

10:22

need to remain frozen forever, at

10:24

least until someone uses them. Otherwise,

10:28

anyone who destroys the embryos or even

10:30

uses them for research could face

10:32

claims for wrongful death and be

10:34

liable for millions of dollars

10:36

in damage.

10:38

Yeah, and infertility

10:40

impacts about fifteen percent of US couples,

10:42

So that's that's pretty big. As I said, infertility

10:46

is not the only reason people use IVF,

10:48

but that's still a pretty big number. And

10:51

yes, I have as I said, I did see a bunch

10:53

of quote like lighter questions of this

10:56

ruling, like if embryos count as

10:58

dependence now, like it just so many

11:00

impacts that clearly we're not considered.

11:03

So I mean, at what point can they

11:05

be charged? Can people be charged with abandonment?

11:07

And it's never going to be men? So right

11:10

then? Also it kind of says men are useless because

11:12

we can't even have children.

11:14

That's true, so men for

11:19

I'm sure that was not what they wanted.

11:21

That's what I'm going to take away from it. That's

11:23

the that's the highlight.

11:28

Well, as we've been mentioning, there has been

11:30

a really big pushback to this, including measures

11:32

proposed to protect IVF and Alabama like

11:35

this is ongoing right now, including

11:37

one that would quote provides civil and criminal

11:40

immunity to persons providing goods and services

11:42

related to in vitro fertilization except

11:44

acts or emission that are intentional

11:47

and not arising from or related

11:49

to IVF services, But

11:51

it does not correct the fundamental underlying

11:54

problem of fetal

11:57

personhood. I guess there's

12:00

states are following suit with this, including

12:02

Florida, but Florida's Paul's theirs. After

12:04

what happened in Alabama, and

12:07

it's really showcased just how tenuous access

12:09

to reproductive rights have been

12:12

after the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which

12:14

is what we were scared of, which is what we were saying.

12:18

This is part of that, and

12:20

now we are seeing something

12:23

else, and it is

12:25

the return of the Comstock Acts.

12:29

Yes, which I just remember today. A

12:31

villain in one of my favorite video games is named Comstock

12:34

and he's kind of like this, and now I'm.

12:36

Like, probablyless purposeful, probably

12:39

was, probably was.

12:41

The world he created was very bad. I

12:44

should tell you something. He

12:46

should be right up there together. I'm just kidding.

12:50

So, Yes, one of the chilling implications

12:52

of this and of

12:56

this conversation and conservative push

12:58

that has been going on for a while around productive

13:00

rights concerns the abortion pill and the

13:02

Comstock Acts, which some ultra conservatives

13:05

believe bans abortion on a federal

13:07

level already. So

13:09

what is the Comstock Act. It

13:11

is a nineteenth century anti vice

13:14

law that has now become the center of

13:16

an anti abortion push to ban the mailing

13:18

of abortion pills like mifipristone,

13:20

which is currently used in about half of all abortions

13:23

in the US. It was passed in eighteen

13:25

seventy three and was named after

13:27

a deeply religious anti vice crusader,

13:29

Anthony Comstock, who was reportedly

13:32

a serial masturbador and

13:34

definitely a racist, homophobic,

13:37

misogynist, And it was designed to prevent

13:39

the mailing of contraceptives quote

13:41

obscene, lewde, lascivious, indecent,

13:43

filthy or vile article, matter, thing,

13:46

device, or substance, and any quote

13:48

instrument, substance, drug, medicine, or

13:50

thing that could aid in an abortion, which

13:54

was expounded on in nineteen oh nine.

13:56

Right, I feel like this is one of those the calls coming

13:58

from inside the house, Joyce.

14:00

Yeah, but you know, okay.

14:03

So Comstock believed that the mere

14:05

existence of these things, and even nudity

14:07

and art was behind all

14:10

of society's ills. Again, he seems

14:12

to be flaming victims because he

14:14

yes, never mind and his own

14:16

perceived shortcomings. Yes, so they

14:19

made me sin. He had been quote

14:21

horrified by the amount of porn and

14:23

alcohol he saw his fellow soldiers

14:25

consume. As a Union

14:28

soldier, so he wanted it all

14:30

band to sanitize America.

14:34

But even at that time he was seen as

14:37

extreme. This was the Victorian

14:39

era. Just as a reminder, they

14:42

even had a word to make fun of

14:44

his intense views, Comstockery.

14:48

Yeah, so just to reiterate even

14:50

at that time they thought he was much.

14:52

Serial masturbator, which

14:54

they probably witnessed. Let's just be real

14:57

clear.

14:59

Yeah.

15:00

So this term consackery was first popularized

15:03

by George Bernard Shaw, and

15:05

it was sort of used by a lot of Europeans

15:07

to mock what they saw is American backwardness

15:09

and puritanical nature. So it was at first it

15:12

was like, what are those Americans doing

15:14

with their comstockery? But then people

15:16

start to use it in the US too.

15:19

So that's I wonder if he has family.

15:21

I hope they are ashamed. Oh no, I'm sorry. I don't

15:23

want but I don't know them. They're

15:26

sure, they're nice people, but I'm wondering they're like, why

15:28

the did he have to do this? And now our names?

15:31

Yeah, like caught up in this anyway. So

15:33

Comstock wrote in his book Traps

15:36

for the Young quote, the most infamous

15:38

scoundrel may send the violens matter

15:40

to the purest boy or girl. And this

15:42

is being done systematically, Oh

15:45

dear.

15:47

Yes, he was allegedly largely

15:49

influenced by the death of his mother and childbirth,

15:52

but he had no knowledge of women's

15:54

bodies, reproductive health, medicine,

15:56

etc. Uh So yeah.

16:00

Also of note, given some

16:02

of his previous quotes, not that I

16:04

think we should be putting too much stock in Comstock,

16:06

but he actually wouldn't have been opposed to legal

16:08

abortion. It was the quote

16:11

back alley heavy quotes abortions

16:13

he wanted to stop.

16:14

When he won abortions because if childbirth

16:17

was the reason she died, right,

16:20

not having a child.

16:21

I'm pretty sure he did

16:24

write about it, So I like, again, he

16:27

was not against abortion person

16:29

at large, just

16:32

what he viewed as.

16:35

Yeah again, heavy quotes back after abortion.

16:37

But however, he was against

16:39

the women's suffrage movement, surprise,

16:42

surprise. And this was a time

16:44

when a lot of things around gender rolls

16:46

in the US were in flux. Women

16:48

pressing for the fight to vote, fighting marital

16:50

rape and drunkenness with temperance, seeking

16:53

financial rights, all things that scared

16:55

people like Comstock when it came to

16:57

the stability of the family right.

17:01

Another big factor in this was that

17:03

generally speaking, abortion was legal in the US

17:05

until quote quickening are

17:08

when the pregnant person could feel a fetus move,

17:10

which was around four or five months. Prior

17:13

to that, it was generally accepted that pregnant folks

17:15

could make their own decision, usually

17:18

involving a midwife who was a woman. This

17:21

didn't sit well with typically

17:23

male physicians who wanted

17:25

that money, so they

17:27

wanted to drive women out of their profession and

17:29

consolidate their business make more

17:32

money. Another was another

17:34

fact is that Anglo Saxon women

17:36

white women weren't having as many babies, so you get

17:38

Comstock coming out of the woods, like, whoa,

17:46

that's my impression of Comstock, right.

17:48

Yeah.

17:49

Still, that didn't stop Comstock

17:51

from convincing Congress with a collection of

17:53

quote obscene items and materials that he

17:55

called his Chamber of Horrors

17:58

to pass the COMPS Acts,

18:00

and he was granted the role of special Agent at

18:03

the US Post Office so that he could

18:05

monitor the mail legally. Thousands

18:08

were prosecuted, subject to fines, jail

18:10

time, or labor. It could be for something

18:13

like a letter that you sent to your spouse. Some

18:15

died by suicide and one hundred

18:17

and sixty tons of literature was confiscated

18:20

and destroyed. This was something

18:22

he bragged about before he died. In nineteen

18:24

fifteen of notes towards like obscenity

18:27

were not defined and left to people like Comstock

18:29

to determine. Which is great, That's

18:32

just great.

18:32

I feel like this is a similar story to what's happening

18:34

with the Florida governor. Like

18:37

he's having to backtrack a little bit, and this

18:39

is his legend because he's the one that's doing the same

18:41

nonsense today.

18:45

You know what I'm saying, Like Desantas is doing

18:47

like we got to make sure

18:49

we were protecting our children. There's so many

18:51

obscenities, and now he's having to back up. We're like, well,

18:53

wha what It didn't mean this much. I'm just kidding because

18:55

he knows he's about to be placed in history

18:58

at this level.

19:00

Right, right, I mean

19:03

I hope so. But Comstart seemed

19:05

real proud of it.

19:06

Right. Maybe he's learning,

19:08

but but h.

19:22

In eighteen seventy eight, Comstock had

19:24

Madame Restell, a well known abortion

19:26

provider, arrested. She died by suicide,

19:30

and to do all this he worked with the police and

19:33

the YMCA, which formed the New

19:35

York Society for the Suppression of Vice

19:38

in part in order to enforce this act

19:40

and their logo literally features some man burning

19:42

books.

19:44

Again, I feel like that could be also

19:49

representation. So in nineteen

19:51

fifteen, reproductive rights activist

19:53

Mary where Dennett was charged with

19:55

violating the Comstock Act after distributing

19:58

pamphlets about sex education, even

20:00

though she included this quote. At

20:02

present, unfortunately, it is against

20:05

the law to give people information as to how

20:07

to manage their sex relations so that no

20:09

baby will be created. This

20:11

was overturned in a historic landmark free

20:13

speech case. Kind of good.

20:15

I want to come back to that because I was surprised.

20:18

I thought it was going to be a worse outcome. But yeah,

20:21

I want to come back to that. But just a note,

20:23

famous artworks and books like Ulysses were

20:25

subject to this act, and so Ulysses Americans

20:28

would like get it contraband from Europe

20:31

because it was like a hugely popular book and you couldn't

20:33

get it in the US because of this Comstock Act.

20:37

So it had a far reaching impact,

20:40

but it hasn't

20:42

really been enforced since the nineteen thirties

20:44

when judges argued that the language was way too

20:46

broad and could literally ban things like

20:48

surgical gloves. And then

20:51

in nineteen thirty six it was further

20:53

specified that the Comstock Act referred

20:55

only to illegal items used

20:57

for an abortion. In the seventies,

21:00

contraceptives was removed from

21:02

the language of the Acts.

21:03

And the passing of Roe v.

21:04

Wade basically rendered it inert. The

21:07

nineteen sixty five case Griswold

21:09

versus Connecticut had previously weakened

21:11

it, ruling that contraception was legal

21:13

for married couples because before

21:16

they could technically get prison time forgetting

21:18

it. So now

21:21

Roe v. Wade has been overturned and

21:23

a lot of these protections went away again.

21:26

Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization,

21:28

which led to rose overturning, was

21:30

mentioned in the Alabama court ruling about

21:33

IVF fifteen times.

21:35

Now, anti abortion crusaders are

21:37

looking to use Roe v. Wade not being

21:40

there to bring the Comstock

21:42

Acts back. In fact, after

21:44

Rose overturned, the Biden administration officially

21:47

released a memo saying the Comstock

21:49

Act does not apply to abortion bills,

21:51

which it doesn't like even as it is now

21:54

because they've updated it, but they're

21:56

still looking to change it and use it.

22:00

In April twenty twenty three, a federal judge

22:02

appointed by Trump and Texas ruled that

22:04

when the FDA approved mifipristone

22:06

two decades ago, they did so

22:09

illegally, pointing to what

22:11

they called serious safety concerns,

22:13

which he has is bull The Biden administration

22:16

and the judge. Manufacturer appealed,

22:18

we've talked about this before. At

22:20

the same time, a judge in Washington ruled

22:23

that the government must allow for access

22:25

to this drug. Attorney generals

22:27

and over twenty states have warned companies

22:30

like Walgreens and CBS they could

22:32

get in legal trouble if they mailed the drug.

22:35

The same judge from the Texas ruling Casmeric

22:38

claimed that fathers have

22:40

the constitutional right to control their daughter's

22:44

access to birth controls.

22:46

Which were the mother, even though the matriarch

22:49

is supposed to be raising the children.

22:51

Hey, it is very strange

22:54

from Fox who's a quote? Because

22:56

Marek has claimed that being transgender is

22:58

a quote mental disorder and that gay people

23:00

are disordered. In a twenty fifteen article,

23:03

he denounced a so called sexual revolution,

23:05

which sought public affirmation of

23:07

the lie that the human person is an

23:09

autonomous blob of silly putty, unconstrained

23:12

by nature our biology, and that marriage,

23:14

sexuality, gender identity, and even the

23:16

unborn child must yield to the erotic

23:18

desires of liberated adults.

23:21

So this is what we're talking about. The people who

23:23

are making these rulings here what

23:26

they think.

23:28

And for him to name children as like being

23:31

erotic for adults again, I'm like, I'm

23:33

really thinking you might be telling on yourself,

23:36

which is what we see too often.

23:39

We do, indeed, we do.

23:40

Indeed, So

23:43

that whole this whole thing started

23:46

after a drag fundraising event to

23:49

prevent LGBTQ plus suicide

23:51

was shut down and the students running the event sued,

23:53

saying it infringed on their First Amendment

23:56

free speech rights. But this judge

23:58

argued there was a historical legal

24:01

president against sexualized

24:03

speech, citing the Comstock Act.

24:06

YEP, a different guy

24:08

in Texas again this I

24:10

was like, this is a story for another episode. But

24:12

briefly, he led this charge to make

24:14

his city a quote sanctuary for the unborn

24:18

and twenty nineteen, which

24:20

was unanimously agreed upon amongst the all

24:22

male votees. As

24:25

part of the effort, he contacted attorney

24:27

Jonathan Mitchell and, according to Miss Magazine

24:30

quote, Mitchell submitted an amachust cure.

24:32

A friend of the court brief in Dabbs

24:34

on behalf of Texas Right to Life,

24:37

which he denied that women need access to

24:39

abortion in order to have control over their reproductive

24:41

lives, arguing instead that they can

24:43

simply refrain from having sex.

24:46

This was also a part of the whole bounty

24:48

hunter thing in Texas that rewards people

24:51

for reporting anyone even remotely potentially

24:53

involved in an abortion.

24:56

Yep.

24:58

The quote continues as

25:00

Mitchell expounded to a town commission meeting

25:02

in Edgewood, New Mexico. Such a victory

25:05

quote would be a defeat far more catastrophic

25:07

than dabs for the supporters of abortion access.

25:10

A ruling of that sort would effectively ban abortion

25:13

nationwide, making it possible for abortions

25:15

to be performed even in blue states, because

25:17

even though the Comstock law

25:20

does not ban abortion literally, it bans

25:22

the shipment or receipt of any abortion

25:24

related equipment. This ruling was limited

25:27

to mifipristone, but providers

25:29

did say that they would pivot to another drug,

25:32

misaprostol, if necessary, which is typically

25:34

prescribed for things like stomach ulcers but

25:36

can be used for abortions. Also

25:38

safe. However, it's also under

25:41

a threat.

25:41

Right so from the Guardian,

25:44

But in practice, a ban on sending

25:46

abortion tools through the mail or commercial

25:48

transit is a ban on having those abortion

25:50

tools altogether, both for medical

25:53

and surgical abortions. After all, the

25:55

pharmacists who dispense abortion pills at a

25:57

CVS or a community clinic, even

25:59

in illegal state, does not manufacture the medicines

26:02

herself. She receives them in a shipment

26:04

from a pharmaceutical distributor, usually

26:06

in the mail or in the delivery shipment. Similarly,

26:09

the doctor, nurse or midwife who performs

26:11

a dilation and a cure tach surgical

26:14

abortion does not weld her own speculums

26:16

or forge her own cures. She does

26:18

not manufacture her own syringes

26:20

to administer antibiotics or painkillers,

26:23

and she does not mold her own plastic

26:25

hot water bottles to give to her patients

26:27

for aftercare. She buys these

26:30

as she buys all other medical supplies,

26:32

through the system of commerce through which Americans

26:35

fulfill most of their knees and conduct

26:37

most of their lives. It is the anti choice

26:39

movements aimed to remove abortion

26:42

from that system of normal commerce,

26:44

requiring providers to create alternative

26:47

supply chairs the same

26:49

way the anti choice movement has removed

26:51

abortion from the broader system of normal

26:53

medicine, requiring providers to create

26:56

alternative clinics. The anti choice

26:58

movement wouldn't need an Act of Congress

27:01

or even a judicial ruling. All

27:04

it would need is to say it was enforcing

27:06

a law already on the books.

27:08

Right, which is why we've

27:10

heard Republicans start to bring up the

27:12

Comstock Act more and more because

27:15

this is what they're talking about doing. Just

27:17

a reminder, all of

27:19

this is hugely unpopular. A majority

27:21

of American support access to safe abortions.

27:24

The Comstock Act was hugely unpopular

27:27

even then, but

27:30

he got it through using the same tactics that we're

27:32

seeing now. Also, I know we say

27:34

this every time, but those drugs we've been discussing

27:36

are safe. They've been proven safe.

27:37

They're safe, They're completely completely safe.

27:40

Literally the level of side

27:42

effugs is along with Thailand all.

27:44

Yes, completely safe,

27:48

and you can still

27:50

get them.

27:51

So don't don't think

27:54

that that's what we're saying.

27:55

That's just something we need to be vigilant

27:57

about because this is what they're

28:00

they're looking at doing. There is

28:02

a push to repeal the Comstock

28:04

Acts, but given

28:07

our current political climate, it's an uphill

28:10

battle. And another note,

28:12

it wouldn't ban abortion drugs

28:14

outright, it would just pretty much again

28:16

they're not thinking this through because you use surgical

28:18

gloves for other things like but

28:22

it would make it very, very very difficult to get

28:25

them. And this is all connected.

28:27

This is all linked, like what we've been talking about, banning

28:29

books, banning abortion, the role

28:31

of police, the role of surveillance, like this is

28:33

what we're saying when we talk about intersectional feminism

28:36

and why it is all connected. And

28:38

on top of that, it is really distressing that we've

28:41

gotten these numbers about burst from rapes

28:43

because people were not able to access abortion, which

28:46

is frightening in terms of lack of access, but

28:48

also in what it suggests about

28:51

rape numbers. And you

28:54

know, to be clear, if

28:56

you want an abortion, a safe abortion, you should

28:58

be able to get one. This is very

29:00

troubling data. But

29:04

there have been some wins

29:06

for reproductive rights in the US, including

29:08

in conservative states and

29:11

elsewhere, because of people doing the work and fighting

29:13

back. So that's something else like it can be

29:15

very disheartening

29:19

to hear something like this, and it is

29:22

it is, but there

29:24

are also so many people fighting and

29:26

who aren't giving up and who are doing these things,

29:28

and it does matter, so keep

29:31

that in mind. And also outside

29:33

of the US, for instance, France

29:36

just enshrined abortion rights into their constitution

29:39

in March of twenty twenty four. As we record

29:41

this, and a lot of people

29:43

said that we're interviewed about it that in

29:45

part.

29:46

After seeing what happened in the US.

29:47

So exactly, Yep, we're a

29:49

cautionary tell wonderful.

29:51

Wonderful Yes.

29:55

As we said at the top, I'm

29:57

sure we'll be revisiting this a lot. There's a lot

29:59

of that we need

30:01

to go back to that's happened around abortion in

30:03

the US. But also, listeners,

30:06

if you have any resources,

30:09

if you live anywhere in

30:11

the US or outside of the

30:13

US, where you've been involved in something

30:15

around abortion, or there's something going on you think we

30:18

should know about, please please please

30:20

let us know.

30:21

That is so.

30:21

Valuable to us. You

30:24

can email U at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia

30:26

dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,

30:28

or on Instagram and TikTok that stuff. I never told

30:30

you. We have a tea public store and we have

30:32

a book that has a whole chapter on

30:35

abortion productive rights

30:37

that you can get wherever you get your books.

30:40

Thanks as always to our super ducer Christina, executive

30:42

ducer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you

30:44

and thanks to you for listening. Stefan ever told

30:47

you the prodection of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

30:49

you can check out the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever

30:51

you listen to your favorite show