0:05

Hey, this is Bridget and you're

0:07

listening the stuff Mom never told you, and

0:20

today you were really excited to talk about the store

0:22

you might have heard of called Walmart.

0:25

I'm sure some of y'all out there have one in your

0:27

town, drive by it, maybe you even shop

0:30

there. Today we're gonna be getting into some of the

0:32

not so warm and fuzzy aspects

0:35

of how Walmart troots its employees and

0:37

another company you might like a lot more than

0:39

Walmart called Modcloth,

0:42

and spoiler alert, they are

0:44

now the same company.

0:47

They are now owned and operated

0:49

by the same company, which

0:51

I have to say I actually didn't really

0:53

know. For a while. I was

0:56

a huge Modcloth fan, like a

0:58

lot of women. I'm sure, um a lot

1:00

of that goods in my apartment are from Modcloth.

1:03

Um. I didn't really love a lot of their clothing,

1:05

but I loved their like quirky

1:07

homewears. It felt like Portland

1:09

if Portland was a clothing store, which

1:12

great place. It was never my thing. So I

1:15

bring some vice to the table on this one because

1:17

I was never that into the vintage

1:20

inspired but not actually vintage

1:22

clothing lines. But I do respect

1:25

the way that they made choices

1:27

around their marketing, which we'll we'll

1:29

dive into, but this latest

1:31

choice was certainly a doozy. It was

1:33

a doozy, and I think for a lot of their fans

1:36

online, certainly a surprising

1:38

one. So to take it back to Walmart for

1:40

a minute, I know you might be thinking, Okay,

1:42

so Walmart is one store, it's one retailer.

1:45

Why should anybody care what they do and what

1:47

their labor practices look like. But here's

1:49

why you should care. Walmart is actually the

1:51

world's largest private employer. They

1:54

employed two point three million employees

1:56

worldwide. That's more than all of the U.

1:58

S is active military personnel, which is pretty

2:01

cute. It's like our milletary.

2:03

It rivals our military. The

2:05

Walmart workforce is its own army.

2:07

Yeah, that's an accurate

2:10

statement. Army, Navy, every every

2:12

branch. That's crazy. Yeah, it's it's

2:14

huge, it's massive. So really, we should

2:16

all kind of be invested in how Walmart

2:19

shoots its employees because the way that Walmart

2:21

does things sets the tone for other retailers.

2:23

If Walmart can get away with something in terms of labor

2:26

practices, other smaller retailers

2:28

feel like they probably can to the sheer

2:30

volume and influence that Walmart brings

2:32

to the table influences what folks

2:35

expect in the working world, um,

2:37

and what they can get away with. Just like you said, Bridget

2:40

it's payroll and it's pay and it's

2:42

practices for employee

2:44

management and talent management. Really

2:47

moves the needle in terms of what workers can

2:49

expect in terms of rights in this country, definitely

2:51

and across the world definitely, definitely, because

2:53

Walmart does have global reach. So

2:56

unless you've been living under a rock, you might

2:58

already know that Walmart isn't really own

3:00

for treating employees very fairly. Um,

3:02

there's a whole If we did an entire podcast

3:04

about all the allegations made against Walmart, this

3:07

would be a seven hour podcast and you would

3:09

probably unless you were driving across country,

3:11

you would never listen to it. Um. To sum

3:13

it up, Walmart has had a long

3:15

history of treating employees and not so

3:17

well. In twelve, Walmart was fine at

3:19

the Department of Labor for denying workers

3:22

over time pay have to pay back four point

3:24

eight million in back wages. Honestly,

3:26

like you said, if we went through every allegation,

3:29

we would be here forever. So in terms of recent

3:32

proven violations of workers

3:35

rights. They also were ordered to pay truck

3:37

drivers fifty four million dollars

3:40

after a California jury found that they had intentionally

3:42

underpaid them, And just

3:45

as recently as this summer, a

3:47

report from workers advocacy group A

3:49

Better Balance found that Walmart

3:51

routinely refuses to accept

3:54

doctor's notes, pedalizes workers

3:56

who take care of a sick family member,

3:59

and otherwise punishes employees for

4:01

lawful absences. There's a ton

4:03

of retaliation in the Walmart culture,

4:06

and it feels like, despite

4:08

what the policies might be on the books, that

4:11

managers in each and every store had a ton

4:13

of leeway and made kind of

4:15

arbitrary choices and how they

4:18

treated workers fairly or not so

4:21

fairly, exactly Emily, And later

4:23

on in the show, we're gonna talk to Janie Grice, a Walmart

4:25

employee who says that's exactly what's going on

4:27

at Walmart. And a recent report,

4:29

based on the survey of more than a thousand employees

4:32

just like Janie, accuses Walmart

4:34

violating the American with Disabilities Act,

4:36

the Family and Medical Leave Act, and a

4:38

whole bunch of other worker protection laws that are

4:40

already on the books. These are workers rights

4:42

that we've already fought for, and by the way, we

4:45

don't really have that many in this country

4:47

right now, and a lot of them have been

4:50

peeled back or or or rolled

4:52

back in states that are right to work, states

4:54

where labor laws have become even weaker, and

4:57

protections for workers have become sort of a

4:59

passe and not quite a thing anymore.

5:02

But even when it comes to the laws that we do

5:04

have on the books, and earlier complaint

5:06

was made with the e O c our our pals

5:09

that we always like to mention friends of the show, the

5:12

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and

5:14

in a lawsuit filed last month, uh

5:17

reports show that Walmart discriminated against

5:19

pregnant workers. And when you really

5:22

drilled down on the way that Walmart deals

5:24

with women, you really see that the

5:26

problem is magnified when

5:28

you bring gender into the mix. The vast majority

5:30

of associates receive no paid leave or

5:32

flexible schedules to help them take care of their families.

5:35

And actually Walmart doesn't release their data

5:37

on pay equity, but a two thousand and one study

5:40

found the man at Walmart make an average

5:42

of five thousand two hundred dollars more

5:44

than women. And that's just for the same

5:46

work. And that's just what we know about, right, So

5:48

it's not good. It's not good, and

5:51

I think it's you know, we all sort of know that

5:53

Walmart sucks. We know that they don't

5:55

give their employees benefits,

5:58

and those prices, the

6:00

low low prices

6:02

like lure so many of us in um

6:05

and I always feel guilty when I, on occasion,

6:08

stroll into a Walmart because I'm in the middle

6:10

of nowhere on the road and i need a

6:13

protein bar or something, and they've

6:15

made the experience seem really quite friendly

6:17

and pleasant, and they've

6:19

really tried to brand themselves as like low

6:21

prices because you America deserves

6:24

a break, and they play into the financial

6:27

insecurity that they're perpetuating.

6:29

That's something I've always found so difficult

6:31

to wrap my head around with Walmart is that I

6:34

get it if you are a frazzled single

6:36

parent and you just need to run in to grab

6:38

some stuff on the sheep and then like run back home

6:40

and make dinner. Part of me can totally understand

6:43

why maybe Walmart's labor practices

6:46

aren't the first and foremost thing in your mind when

6:48

you're just trying to get through your day. Yeah, and everybody's

6:50

got to make those tough choices about

6:52

the family budget and stretching the family

6:55

dollar. But it's important to know what you're

6:57

supporting. It's important to know that. In

7:00

two thousand one, Walmart was at the center

7:02

of a of a lawsuit, a class action

7:04

lawsuit, Duke's versus Walmart,

7:06

which was a landmark gender discrimination

7:08

case that made it all the way up to the

7:11

Supreme Court. Betty Duke's

7:13

Walmart greeter, despite six years

7:15

of work and totally positive performance

7:17

reviews, she was denied the training that

7:20

she needed to advance to a higher salaried

7:22

position, which, by the way, is something that Walmart constantly

7:24

is telling people. You know, the opportunities

7:27

are here for you. You You just gotta pull yourself up

7:29

by your blue Walmart

7:31

best, you know what I mean. Like they make it sound

7:34

like if you're not rising in the ranks of

7:36

management, that's on you, because we've given you

7:38

every opportunity, And they try to make it

7:40

clear or at least there's i think a

7:42

branded message that

7:45

we're here to offer career paths,

7:47

and that's not the case. In reality,

7:50

a lot of the workers that we've heard

7:52

from and Janey, who we're going to hear from

7:54

in a minute, makes it very clear that those opportunities

7:56

are not given freely

7:58

or equally. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

8:01

Even in researching this episode, when you go to

8:03

Walmart's own website for employees

8:05

and potential employees, the first thing that jumps

8:07

out at you is opportunity in advancement.

8:10

They've clearly sold potential employees

8:12

on this idea that if they join up with

8:14

Walmart and work hard, they can work their way through

8:17

their ranks. And they love having all

8:19

these stats about how many of their employees started

8:21

as associates and then worked throwing up to management. It's

8:23

clearly a branding choice that they

8:26

love relying on and selling

8:28

and packaging to make themselves seem really

8:30

warm and cuddly. Doesn't it sound like the American

8:32

dreams? It does sound like the American dream is

8:34

also a false sale, Yeah,

8:37

which is not really like class mobility.

8:39

What the hell is that in this country anymore?

8:41

You know what I mean? So it seems like a battle of

8:44

perception. Is it on you, the individual

8:46

to rise in the ranks, and therefore, if you don't

8:48

it's a personal failure or is it the

8:50

systemic injustices that are perpetuated

8:53

by clear, calculated,

8:56

strategic, and structural choices

8:58

about how this organized station runs its

9:00

business. Well, the one point six million

9:03

women involved in this duke's case would

9:05

say it is not their choices,

9:07

it's a systematic way of keeping women down

9:09

who work at Walmart. In this filing,

9:12

one plaintiffs store manager justified

9:14

giving a large raise to a male employee

9:17

because he had a family to support

9:20

all the daddy bump. Remember we talked

9:22

about the mommy tax, which what was it? The daddy

9:24

bonus? He basically openly

9:27

acknowledged, this is why I'm giving this dude

9:29

to promotion. And all the women and mothers

9:31

in the room were like than. He

9:35

later suggestive to the plaintiff that

9:37

she quote doll up and quote

9:40

blow the cobwebs off her

9:43

makeup to make herself

9:45

more promotable. Who the says

9:47

blow the cobwebs off your makeup?

9:49

I can close my eyes and see who this guy is.

9:52

A packed lip of dip. He's

9:54

like, you know what, sweetheart, if

9:56

you just blow the cobwebs off that

9:58

makeup? Now, what is

10:00

this accent? I don't know. I

10:03

like went for some Texan and then it turned

10:05

into like something

10:08

really not Texan. But it

10:10

feels like this, like deep South, good old

10:12

boy. It's like a complete throwback,

10:14

and I think that that really illustrates the kind

10:16

of climate that these women say they were dealing with the Walmart.

10:19

I just offended all of our listeners in the deeps.

10:22

I'm sorry. I actually love Texas. Just the

10:24

record, So we were talking about this class action

10:26

lawsuit and how they systematically discriminated

10:29

against women. So in a

10:31

bunch of the store

10:33

managers at California, Walmart's

10:36

not deep South. By the way,

10:38

we're advised at the institute

10:41

where Walmart trains its managers that

10:43

the reason there are few

10:46

senior female managers at

10:48

Walmart is because men were quote

10:51

more aggressive in achieving those

10:53

levels of responsibility than women, which,

10:56

by the way, we already know as BS

10:59

all the data set is that it's not the fact that

11:01

women are less aggressive and not going

11:03

for promotions and things like that. Actually

11:05

that's not true. Wants to embrace aggression.

11:08

Who's like lauding aggression here?

11:10

What the hell is that about? I think they mean an

11:12

assertive which is a different soapbox that I could

11:14

get on. And this also just goes

11:17

to show you how much bad HR training

11:19

is out there. In my like putting on my

11:21

diversity and inclusion HR training hat,

11:24

like, there are slides out there that

11:26

say, here's why women just can't

11:28

get it right, Like, come on, ladies,

11:30

be more like men? What is with me in accents

11:32

today? I love it. I'm in like a loopy

11:35

rage about this though, So listen to this. The

11:37

managers at the institute, we're

11:40

cautioned that efforts to promote

11:42

women could lead to the

11:45

selection of less qualified women

11:47

over more qualified men, Which is

11:49

that same tired idea that if you promote

11:51

women to promoting people who aren't as good,

11:53

which we've already debunked and our Silicon Valley

11:56

episode. It is the equal and opposite

11:58

reaction to the

12:00

gender and inclusion conversation,

12:03

and it doesn't surprise me,

12:06

sadly, but it does remind

12:08

me of how basic the

12:10

fundamental differences are between folks

12:12

who see gender

12:14

and inclusion training and

12:17

promotion as fixing

12:19

a flawed and inherently biased

12:21

problem versus folks who

12:23

think it's like giving an upper hand and

12:26

you know, stealing jobs from white men stealing

12:29

jobs from more qualified white

12:31

candidates than giving them to less qualified

12:34

women and people of color. Yeah, it also belieses

12:36

the assumption that aggressive is

12:38

the model archetype of leadership,

12:41

which is partly probably the reason

12:43

why so many of their managers pursue

12:46

such abhorrent policy. Totally,

12:48

and you know, I have a whole thing against that. I hate when

12:50

people say, oh, if you want to get

12:52

ahead, just be just be more aggressive, be more like

12:54

men. I actually don't think that's good

12:56

advice. Same.

12:59

I have a whole thing on assertive versus aggressive,

13:01

which will will dabble into more, but

13:04

it's real. It's assertive. You want to be assertive.

13:07

You want to be reciprocal in caring about other

13:09

people's rights, but clear about what you want

13:11

and need, but not aggressive, not steamrolling

13:13

over other people. That's not what leaders do anyway.

13:16

Sadly, this case

13:18

was granted class action status,

13:21

but when it landed in the Supreme

13:23

Court, basically due to a

13:25

loyally legal technicality,

13:28

the status was reversed. In a five

13:31

for decision. The conservative judges

13:33

of the court felt that the women's complaints were

13:35

too dissimilar, there were too many,

13:38

there was such a myriad of ways in which women

13:40

were being screwed over that it

13:43

wasn't fair to lump them into one class action

13:45

suit, which is just like, really,

13:48

there's too many nuances to how they

13:50

women over like to make it a class

13:52

action lawsuits exactly. And you know who we have

13:54

to thank for that is the late Anton Scalia.

13:57

But of course our old friend and notorio

14:00

RBG. Ruth Bader Ginsburg had a lot

14:02

to say about that. She was a dissending

14:04

vote in this case, and she said that she

14:06

found that gender bias suffused Walmart's

14:09

corporate culture. Yeah, and it sounds like all

14:11

the judges agreed that there was a problem

14:13

with the form of the case, which

14:15

didn't argue that one million plus employees

14:17

were discriminated against in the same way.

14:20

So it seems like someone's legal team got

14:22

lost on a technicality. Yeah, and it

14:25

really kind of set the tone that

14:27

Walmart was able to, I think, get away

14:29

with unfair labor practices,

14:31

particularly as it pertains to women, for

14:33

a while on a mass scale, without

14:36

repercussions. And I'm sure they had the best lawyers

14:38

in the world, you know. And and we're

14:40

not lawyers, so you

14:43

know, we're not we're not able to break apart

14:45

the flaws in the case

14:47

that was made, but it does feel like they missed the

14:49

point that the justices agreed

14:52

on the fact that these were discriminatory practices,

14:55

but they were just not similar enough in

14:57

nature to file in a class action lawsuit

15:00

exactly. And these kinds of disputes

15:02

have not gone away, And in fact, earlier this

15:04

week, almost six years after the courts

15:06

throughout the Duke's case, more women are coming

15:08

forward to sue Walmart alleging gender discrimination.

15:11

Now, this new suit alleges that Walmart is violating

15:14

Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen

15:16

sixty four. Right, So that's a federal

15:18

law that prohibits employers from discriminating

15:20

against employees on the basis of sex,

15:23

race, color, national origin, and religion.

15:25

And it really applies to businesses with fifteen or

15:27

more employees, including governments.

15:30

So obviously Walmart fits

15:32

the bill. And in this

15:35

lawsuit, they alleged that

15:37

Walmart's in Florida, Georgia,

15:39

South Carolina, North Carolina, Alabama,

15:41

Tennessee, in Virginia had

15:43

a disparate impact. So that

15:45

could mean, you know, in wages, in

15:47

hiring rates, in promotions, in

15:50

firing in terms of

15:52

its female employees in those regions,

15:54

and it was not justified by any

15:56

kind of business necessity, So it was just

15:58

pure discrimination. And I think the

16:01

guests that we'll talk to later in the episode, who

16:03

is actually based in South Carolina, can really

16:05

speak to what she's seen as a female employee

16:07

working at Walmart. We're gonna dive

16:09

into some of the ways that Walmart has tried to shed

16:11

their not so nice image

16:14

in favor of a cuter, cuddlier, dare

16:16

I say, more feminist branding after

16:18

this clickbreak and

16:27

we're back, and we were just talking about

16:29

some of the ways that we kind of already know

16:31

Walmart isn't so great, But what's

16:33

the deal with Modcloth? Where do they come in? So

16:36

you may have noticed that Amazon is really taking

16:38

over our, you know, e commerce landscape,

16:40

and Walmart has really been trying to adopt a hipper,

16:43

more modern vibe to compete exactly.

16:45

So They've added free shipping on their website, They've

16:47

acquired trendy e commerce outlets

16:50

like jet dot com, and

16:52

this expansion for Walmart

16:54

is, okay, how do we keep our big

16:57

box retailers relevant in

16:59

an e comm era? And so

17:01

they've made strategic acquisitions to their

17:03

company that can help with their

17:05

brand, can help them stay relevant, can help them

17:07

stay forward facing, and that

17:10

is part of the reason that

17:12

they wanted to and successfully acquired

17:15

mod Cloth. So Montcloth is

17:17

one of those companies with a cult following. If

17:20

you're like me, Like I said earlier in the show, you

17:22

Love It, women lived for

17:24

this brand, and I can totally understand

17:26

why it had one of those cute founding

17:29

stories. Montcloth was founded in two thousand

17:31

two in a college dorm room. Susan

17:33

Gregg Koger and her then boyfriend Eric Coger

17:36

founded it while they were students at Carnegie Mellon.

17:38

And basically it's one of those companies that went from being

17:40

founded in a dorm room to being really,

17:42

really successful and lucrative, which I think is

17:44

a story that everyone kind of loves. So

17:47

after nixing this idea

17:49

of selling on eBay because she was a thrifter

17:52

and apparently there was a thing that a lot of boss ladies

17:54

were doing in this time period, um,

17:57

the couple ended up being able to support

17:59

themselves throughout school by starting

18:01

their own site. So Monecloth was

18:03

initially selling vintage clothing through

18:05

their website, but because they

18:07

only had like one or two sizes per

18:09

item, and they were getting to the point between

18:12

two thousand and two and two thousand and five

18:15

when they were getting like seventy

18:17

thousand unique shoppers a day,

18:20

and realized, Hey, even though we're just college

18:22

students and this was sort of a hobby,

18:25

this is something I could do as a full time job upon

18:27

graduation in a year. So it

18:30

was certainly more interesting than what

18:32

the career center had to offer. And

18:34

they realized if they got serious about scaling

18:36

their business that they could actually pursue

18:38

it. So Susan and Eric decided

18:41

they were going to pursue financing.

18:43

They went to a major fashion trade show in

18:45

Las Vegas. They put together their

18:47

first own original collection

18:50

that was not thrifted but was inspired

18:52

by the sort of vintage look that Monocloth

18:54

had built its brand around, and

18:57

they ended up raising some serious capital.

18:59

Folks put a million dollars into the business and it

19:01

took off, and so Moncloth

19:04

grew from this very like, oh, very

19:06

scrappy, thrifty

19:08

female lead endeavor to

19:11

a venture backed, scalable business

19:13

that was making real money, which

19:15

is so cool. I mean that story

19:17

of just being someone who loved to shop

19:19

in fifth stores and vintage stores and had

19:21

an eye for fashion, turning that

19:24

from a hobby that you do from your dorm room

19:26

into a million dollar company.

19:29

That's the stuff dreams are made of. Another

19:31

thing that I think made Modo such a cult

19:33

favorite is that they actually genuinely

19:36

seem to care about women and feminist causes.

19:38

Right they walked the walk, they didn't just talk the talk.

19:40

So in two thousand and fourteen, they were the first

19:43

retailer to sign the Hero's Pledge

19:45

in advertising, which promised

19:47

not to use photoshop on their images. They

19:50

were really known for using

19:52

staff members as models and other real women

19:55

instead of professional models, and

19:57

had always been good about inclusive

20:00

of sizing and fit for different

20:02

body types. The employees

20:04

also seem to really believe in its feminist mission.

20:06

One employee told jez Bell that it was an absolute

20:08

dream job. The thing that made it so special

20:11

is that the company was genuine when it talked about its values.

20:13

Everyone that worked there shared those values personally.

20:16

It was a place that you all felt good about the work that you

20:18

were doing. Those values explicitly

20:20

involved feminism. She adds Susan is

20:22

a feminist, she's open about that, and the company

20:25

aligned with those values. I think that's why it grew

20:27

so rapidly. And I really agree. I

20:29

think there are so many crappy companies

20:31

out there that talk a big game about being good

20:33

for women and wanting to market toward women. Maybe

20:36

your Ivanka Trump's of the world might be included

20:38

in that, But then when you pick it apart,

20:40

it actually is terrible for women or treats women

20:42

badly, or is it feminist at all, or makes

20:45

all kinds of crappy gross employment and

20:47

labor choices. I think it was really refreshing

20:49

for women to have a clothing retailer

20:51

that actually one made clothes

20:54

that you would want to wear, and to seem

20:56

to really respect feminist ideals,

20:58

not just in a way that was lips of this, but in a way

21:00

that was authentic. Also. This was like years

21:03

before Beyonce I danced in front of the word feminist.

21:05

This was before feminism was the

21:07

de facto marketing strategy for

21:09

all women's business models.

21:12

Um And then in March, Modcloth

21:15

was acquired by Walmart, Like what,

21:19

like, how does that happen? How does that story end?

21:22

That way, it seems like such a strange

21:24

choice for Modcloth that you have to wonder

21:27

why. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly

21:29

what their fans were asking. There was a lot of outcry

21:31

online. Connie Warner, a Modcloth

21:34

fan who started the boycott

21:36

Modcloth page on Facebook, said,

21:38

the thing I loved about Modcloth is

21:40

that I knew the clothes I bought there couldn't be found

21:42

at Macy's and weren't worn by the masses

21:45

no more. I've unsubscribed from their

21:47

emails. I refused to shop at a store owned

21:49

by Walmart, And it just seems

21:52

like for Walmart, a brand

21:54

booster and a digital

21:56

acquisition in t stay relevant

22:00

in this era of e commerce. For

22:02

Modcloth, it seems like a death sentence

22:05

totally, especially when your customers

22:08

have so much writing on you as this warm,

22:10

cuddly, you know, feminist warm fuzzies

22:12

organization. To just sort of yank

22:15

that rug from under them seems like such a

22:17

strange choice to me. And it's no wonder

22:19

that people on Twitter there was so

22:22

much hate. Like when the founder

22:24

of mod Cloth put the statement out on her

22:26

blog that they were getting bought by Walmart,

22:28

all of the comments were basically like, oh, you're selling

22:31

your soul enjoying all the money. You

22:33

said that you were a feminist, but clearly you have sold

22:35

us out. I hope it was worth it. Yeah, Well, tech crunches

22:37

reporting that it's sold for between fifty

22:39

and seventy five million, So I'm pretty

22:41

sure that the Kogers

22:44

are sitting on a pile of money saying,

22:46

oh, our internet fans are are

22:49

mad at us, but somehow we'll get on. She's

22:51

like wiping her tears and hundred dollar bills exactly,

22:55

just like blowing her nose in them,

22:57

you know what I mean. Like the state

23:00

meant she put out about this was very

23:03

eye opening in my opinion. And I'll be clear

23:05

here y'all. I was never a big modcloth

23:07

fan. I am not a Zoe Deschanel

23:10

aesthetic type Portlandia chick. This

23:12

is not my thing. So I was totally

23:15

not in the cult of modcloth. And when

23:17

I read this quote from her, her statement

23:19

that she put out about this, which I should say,

23:21

she's a co owner with her husband, so we shouldn't

23:24

put all the blame on her. But when I

23:26

read the statement that they made

23:28

about this sale in this choice,

23:31

I was like, this is the most narcissistic

23:34

thing I've ever read that does not

23:36

value the response that her fans are giving

23:38

her. Here's what she said, so she told

23:41

Jezebel quote, I

23:43

spent the last fifteen years of my life working

23:45

on this business and trying to make a positive difference

23:47

in the world. It hurts to hear former

23:50

employees and customers tell me that I'm

23:52

selling out or that I'm ruining the brand

23:55

a k A. My life's worked

23:57

so far, But now

23:59

that I've had some time to think about everything,

24:02

I've realized the negative reactions

24:04

are actually an indication of

24:07

how strong the Modcloth brand

24:09

and community are. People truly

24:12

and passionately care about it and

24:14

feel like it's something that they own, and that's

24:16

extremely hard to create in a brand.

24:18

So I'm proud of that reaction too in some

24:20

way. Okay, first of all,

24:24

that is some real double speak of

24:26

oh, well, actually it's a good

24:28

thing because it just shows that our customers love our

24:30

brand that much but they hate us now, Yeah,

24:33

I mean, aren't I amazing at creating

24:35

a brand that so many people bought

24:37

into that they now hate me for making

24:39

this totally off brand choice about

24:42

how to cash out. Also, do you buy that she

24:44

didn't quite know how passionately

24:46

people felt about this brand. Do you think that's just something

24:48

she's saying after that, I think she's I

24:51

mean, who knows. I'm speculating, But if

24:53

I saw Sophia m Rosso bankrupt

24:55

her business and sell Girl

24:57

Boss like she's been selling it and start

25:00

holding women's empowerment conferences

25:03

and traveling the world talking

25:05

about what women entrepreneurs should

25:07

be doing, I would probably cash

25:09

in on that too. And maybe she had no options.

25:12

Maybe she's got reasons that we don't know about,

25:14

but she's said that she wants to travel

25:16

the world. I'm sure she's going to have her

25:18

face on the cover of a book sometime soon, touting

25:21

how to start a feminist revolution one

25:24

vintage piece of clothing at a time. And

25:26

honestly, that like grinds

25:28

my gears a little bit because she

25:31

left her company in the hands of CEO

25:33

Matt Cannis, who

25:35

routinely makes negative comments about the use

25:38

of plus size models and wanted

25:40

to see fewer of them on the site, telling

25:42

employees that they weren't quote aspirational

25:46

to look at. Although he denies saying

25:48

that, Yeah, he denies making these comments.

25:50

He says that he never said that. He says,

25:52

look at our track record of including you know, plus

25:54

size women on the site. But a

25:57

really interesting article from Jez Bell called

25:59

how Much Health, straight from its feminist beginnings

26:01

and ended at the Walmart property. They

26:03

actually look at glass door reviews from

26:06

former employees, and it really sounds

26:08

like there was some issue

26:11

in terms of how they were going to move forward with

26:14

being size inclusive. And I think that's so awful

26:16

considering the fact that that was one of the

26:18

main things that made Modcloth Modcloth

26:21

was the fact that they offered sizes for everybody.

26:23

They offered closed on everybody,

26:25

And it seems like this was something that as

26:27

soon as the company switched ownership, they

26:30

were no longer really invested in protecting.

26:32

It was like this legacy that they had built. As soon

26:34

as they got a new CEO or bought by Walmart,

26:37

that legacy started to be shipped away.

26:39

And that, I mean, those are hard choices to make

26:41

as a business owner. They really are. I

26:44

can't imagine like

26:46

a future in which I would leave my

26:48

company in the hands of someone else. But because

26:51

I care so much about what we do,

26:53

and because I started it, which I understand

26:56

the kind of love that you have for a

26:58

community and a business that you've create aided

27:01

just you wouldn't hand your baby

27:03

off to someone who doesn't share your values.

27:06

Wouldn't that be part of the negotiation and vetting

27:09

process of a potential acquisition.

27:11

I mean, maybe they just felt like this

27:13

was their only option and they wanted out.

27:16

But it just feels like

27:18

a huge PR win

27:21

for Walmart and a huge

27:23

fail on so many levels for

27:25

everyone that loved moder Cloth except for those who

27:27

are sitting on a cash pile right

27:30

now. Yeah,

27:32

and I mean there's there are a lot of their staff members

27:35

are leaving vocally, a lot of

27:37

their clients and customers are leaving vocally.

27:40

I mean, who knows exactly how it went down

27:42

except the folks who were in the room. But

27:44

the founders said that they would be spending the next year

27:46

traveling the world and writing a book, and

27:49

that we've lived three lifetimes in the last

27:51

fifteen years and it would feel really good to share

27:53

our successes, failures

27:55

and learnings with others. And

27:58

y'all get ready for some

28:00

pr campaign around how

28:03

she did it and how you can do it too.

28:05

And that's the thing that bothers me most of all.

28:08

It's like Girl Boss all over again,

28:10

which they just made a financially ruinous

28:13

decision for their company and

28:15

she's going to capitalize on it. Well, that's exactly

28:17

the thing. As jez Bell points out at the end of this article,

28:20

you know who doesn't really have the option to travel

28:22

the world and sell their story. The

28:25

rest of the employees who are still let my cloth.

28:27

One of them is quoted in this article of saying I'm

28:29

left really sad and conflicted. I've been actively

28:32

boycotting Walmart for years. Having to sign

28:34

papers saying I now work for them is a tough

28:36

pill to swallow, and it just makes you

28:38

think they probably learned all

28:40

these people into working for what they thought was this great

28:43

feminist company, only to pull the

28:45

rug from under them, you know, for

28:47

money. Well, it's just like faux feminism

28:49

on display, y'all. It's not about what you say,

28:51

it's about what you do. It is

28:53

not about one woman's success story. That's

28:55

all feminism is. It's not

28:58

about supporting a corporate conglomy like

29:00

Walmart that routinely discriminates

29:02

against women. How can you reconcile

29:05

those two beliefs. I am not trying

29:07

to throw shade at a woman entrepreneur

29:10

or any entrepreneur who's trying to make a buck. I

29:12

get it, like, good on you, but don't

29:15

talk the feminist talk and hand

29:18

your company over to Walmart

29:21

with their labor practices and their outright

29:23

hostility towards women exactly.

29:26

And I think you know, as women as consumers,

29:29

something that we advocate a lot more on the show

29:31

is just knowing where your money is going. So

29:33

if you're someone who shops at Walmart, shops

29:35

at Modcloth, know what

29:37

you're getting into, know where your dollar is going,

29:39

and know what you're going to support. That's that's

29:42

been my argument since day one. I get

29:44

it. I get that not everybody is ready to cut Walmart

29:46

out of their life completely, because maybe that's not realistic

29:48

for everybody. But I think that we

29:50

should be advocating or folks to

29:53

understand what the companies

29:55

they support are actually doing in

29:57

the world. And I think that's what is

29:59

so troubling for me, particularly

30:02

when you look at the fact that Walmart kind

30:04

of obscures that they own mod Cloth. When

30:06

you go to modcloth dot com, it doesn't say a

30:09

Walmart company there there,

30:11

and I don't think that's a coincidence. Oh yeah,

30:13

they want this not to be in our podcast. They

30:15

explicitly want to not associate

30:18

their Walmart brand. They want to keep

30:20

taking millennial women's money exactly.

30:22

That's what they want, y'all. So just know you're being

30:24

duped into supporting Walmart for shopping out

30:26

Modclough right now. And as feminists,

30:29

you know, it's always important to be thinking about

30:31

all different kinds of women. If your feminism is just

30:33

for upper middle class ladies, it's not

30:35

really, at least in my book, it's not really feminism.

30:38

And so when you're spending your money, think

30:40

about how other women are being

30:42

treated, how that money is impacting

30:44

other women who might not be like

30:47

yourself. What are you going to support in their

30:49

life. We're gonna talk a little bit more about what it looks

30:51

like for women employees at Walmart after

30:53

this thick break and

31:02

we're back today. We are so thrilled

31:04

to be joined by Jamie Grace. Janie

31:06

is a Walmart associate and a member of our Walmart,

31:09

an organization that really harnesses

31:12

the power of Walmart associates to campaign

31:14

for better labor practices and therapy.

31:17

Janie, thank you so much for being here today. Thank

31:20

you for having me so, Jennie,

31:22

tell us a little bit about our Walmart. What is

31:24

our Walmart? Our Walmart

31:26

is this fabulous organization that

31:29

I was lucky enough to be able to join. Um.

31:32

It's an organization that

31:34

were founded by current

31:36

and former associates of Walmart, fightings

31:39

for the needs of the

31:41

associates. And how long have

31:44

you been a Walmart associate?

31:46

How did you find yourself working there? Wow,

31:48

I've been with Walmart now for

31:50

four years as of yesterday. I

31:53

used to hear such good things about Walmart

31:55

and how it was a great company to work for.

31:58

Well, evidently that was long before my term

32:00

because I hadn't seen it yet. And

32:03

what happened with me personally, I

32:06

lost my job UM

32:08

that I had prior, Well, it was years

32:11

prior. The unemployment

32:13

rate in my my my my talent

32:16

was so high, we had the whole we

32:18

had the highest unemployment rate in

32:20

the state of South Carolina, and

32:23

it was really really hard trying to sign a job. And

32:26

I put in an application of Walwar Walbar

32:28

maybe two or three years prior to me

32:31

actually getting a job. I actually had a

32:33

job with UM the

32:35

library when I got hired

32:37

on at Walmart, And the reason why I left

32:39

that job is because it was actually parts fine.

32:42

So when I was hired at Walmart,

32:45

the manager who hired me said

32:48

that she would give me, you know, enough hours to

32:50

where you know, I could live in for a while. That's that's

32:52

what was happening. But you know, with different

32:54

managers, different things happened. So

32:57

it all depends on who. You know. Why

33:00

is it important to you to join an organization

33:02

like our Walmart that's involved in helping

33:05

associates speak up for better better

33:07

pay and better labor practices. Well

33:10

because I, I, for one,

33:12

I got tired of UM

33:15

feeling like I was alone in this. I

33:17

didn't know that there were a whole lot

33:19

of more associates that was going through the exact, exact

33:21

same things that me and so many

33:23

more of my coworkers were going through.

33:26

So being able to reach

33:28

out or have to or reach out to you and

33:31

let you know, well, we have an organization

33:34

and we need people like

33:36

you to you know, speak out about

33:38

injustices that that are going on within

33:40

Walmart. So that was

33:42

just like uh

33:45

eye opener for me. Yeah,

33:47

it's probably really impactful to know

33:49

that you're not alone with your with what you're dealing with. So,

33:51

if you're dealing with low pay, discrimination,

33:54

things that don't seem fair, sometimes it probably

33:56

feels like you're dealing with that just on

33:59

your own and you have to a shoulder that burden just

34:01

on your own. But when you find out actually

34:03

a lot of associates at Walmart are dealing with this,

34:06

it could probably be pretty powerful. I

34:08

was amazed that how many other

34:10

people was going through exactly what I was going through.

34:13

So what are some of the stories that you've heard

34:15

about other people's experiences at Walmart?

34:18

Oh? We where should I start? Um?

34:22

I've heard about associates who

34:24

we're really really sick and had

34:26

to go into work, and some have actually

34:29

fallen dead, you know, because they didn't

34:31

want to take their time off to you

34:33

know, go to the doctor, to take the care of themselves

34:35

because they couldn't afford them its work. And

34:38

I've heard so many stories about

34:41

how pregnant women,

34:43

you know, they're out and

34:46

they're only out for like a little bit of time.

34:48

They can't really involve with their kids because they

34:50

have to get back to work. And oh

34:52

my goodness, there's it's there's so many

34:55

horror stories. That sounds

34:57

like such a tough choice to have to

34:59

make. Right, to have to choose between

35:02

putting money on you know, in the bank,

35:04

and food on the table, and

35:07

working conditions that leave people feeling

35:10

like there's no choice? How

35:12

do you How

35:14

does that make you feel like going into work every

35:16

day? It makes you upset? I mean, because

35:19

nobody should have to choose between work

35:22

and home or you know, family, that

35:25

that should be a given at what's the point of time Walmart

35:27

was a family oriented company? Is so

35:29

much has change. It used to be more

35:31

about the associates in them being

35:34

with their families, but now it's more, uh,

35:37

Walmart and money. So yeah,

35:40

it makes you upset because it's

35:42

just not right. It's not fair. It's not fair for their

35:45

associates. Has there ever been a time

35:47

when you felt like you were facing

35:49

a really impossible choice about

35:52

what you needed to be doing to provide

35:54

for yourself or your loved ones. Was

35:57

there a choice that you've had to face that

36:00

in terms of how Walmart treats its

36:02

associates every

36:05

single week. Don't pay for that

36:07

choice. Because now

36:10

that I was promoted, I

36:13

make good by the hour, But when

36:15

you're not getting any hours, it's difficult.

36:18

So it's every sent the

36:20

the entire four years that I've been with Walmart,

36:23

it's always been a choice of am I gonna

36:25

pay my rent? Am I gonna pay my car payment?

36:28

How am I? How am I gonna pay my light bill?

36:30

So it's always, you know, it's

36:34

it's been a struggle. It's always been

36:36

a struggle since I've been with Walmart. And

36:38

and that's frustrating in itself, because nobody

36:41

should have to choose how

36:43

you're gonna pay your bills or how are you gonna

36:45

eat, or how are you gonna say it here of your family? That should

36:47

never be a choice. And it sounds like

36:50

you've been moving up the pipeline

36:52

in Walmart. So what a folks at Walmart had

36:54

to say about this, you know, when when

36:56

you were given this promotion but

36:59

yet still don't get the hours

37:01

that you need to make ends meet all

37:03

the time? How do the folks

37:05

at Walmart make that case

37:08

to you about why you should stay working

37:11

with them and why you should invest

37:13

in their company.

37:15

Well, they try to run the line. Well,

37:18

you know, there's always career opportunities

37:20

to Walmart and you can always advance

37:23

and you know, in your career. But that's

37:26

not necessarily true. It

37:29

is, but it's not because

37:31

the way the way that they do things

37:33

now, they make people not want to

37:35

stay, you know, because they don't

37:38

have these full time positions that they talk so

37:40

much about. It's only certain departments,

37:43

uh that have full time positions. And see

37:45

me myself, I work on the front end. I'm

37:47

a customer service manager. So we

37:50

see a lot of cashiers and customer

37:52

service managers who just work

37:55

part term. You may go in for four

37:57

hours a day,

37:59

and that's just ridiculous as an adult to

38:02

have to go in for those few hours

38:04

when we have a whole family that keep trying to maintain.

38:07

It doesn't seem like it's it makes you feel

38:09

like a dignified person. It doesn't feel like it

38:11

gives you that. It almost seems like disrespectful.

38:15

Yeah, it does, it

38:18

does. It really really does. Because I have

38:21

an eighteen year old and when

38:23

he was working, he works, you know,

38:25

he works maybe four or five hours a day.

38:28

Here I am almost forty years old and

38:30

I'm doing the same thing as my eight year o.

38:33

It doesn't make sense. I mean, I don't

38:35

understand how they expect

38:37

for anyone with the family to actually

38:39

take care of their family when

38:42

you're working so few hours. And

38:44

it's not like they don't need to help, right, It's

38:46

just that they're taking all the

38:48

work hours that they have and chopping

38:50

them up into tiny, little kinds of shift

38:53

work for associates like you, which

38:56

seems like a very intentional practice,

38:58

doesn't it. It It seems like a very intentional choice

39:01

that Walmart has made that leaves workers

39:03

like you who are willing and

39:05

able to give more time

39:08

feeling like you can't even get the hours that

39:10

you want. Jimmy, can you speak

39:12

a little bit about how Walmart is

39:14

for women? Um? What's the climate

39:16

like for the women who work there? Hell,

39:19

the majority of people who work there are women.

39:22

UM, I can't really say that,

39:24

you know, it's an awful company that really,

39:27

you know, supports women, because that's

39:30

not what I've seen. Um.

39:33

They've been, you know, repeatedly sued for

39:36

a gender discrination and

39:38

they refused to disclose how much women

39:41

are paid in comparison to men. I

39:43

actually went to the shareholders meeting in

39:46

Arkansas earlier this year,

39:48

and I was able to actually, you

39:51

know, ask them to give us those numbers

39:54

and they will not release them

39:56

at all. And

39:58

from a report two thousand

40:00

three, they found that women working

40:03

at Walmart at any level, they

40:05

are a fifty two hundred dollars less

40:08

then they're real counterparts. So that

40:11

that says a lot. That's back in two thousand

40:13

three and here it is. So

40:16

every daily nothing changed because they're not releasing

40:19

as data. We're asking that they're not releasing

40:21

it. And you did mention that

40:24

you see a lot of pregnant employees

40:26

at Walmart having to come back um

40:29

soon after giving birth. It

40:31

sounds like there's no rights

40:34

to maternity leave or paid

40:36

leave, to take care of a

40:39

sick person in your family, or to

40:41

recover from childbirth. Is

40:43

that correct? You know, that's

40:45

great especially for it like the lord

40:48

level associates now management

40:50

they get I think it's about twelve weeks they

40:52

leave when they go out go

40:55

out with their pregnancies. But as far

40:57

as associates for my level or lord,

41:00

they don't. They don't get the same things. They don't

41:02

get the same things. But but our

41:05

Walmart, we just want to change and

41:07

got Walmart to adopt the new pregnancy pregnancy

41:10

um policy requiring

41:12

the company to treat pregnancy as its tipperary

41:15

disability. So now yes,

41:19

yes, so now pregnant associates can have more

41:21

accommodations. Do associates

41:23

otherwise get time to run to the

41:25

restroom very often? Or do you feel like that's

41:27

penalized? Well,

41:29

that's that's that the sands of plant management

41:31

and the stores. It's very

41:34

very yeah. So it sounds

41:36

like there's a lot of variability based on who's

41:39

calling the shots in a particular store, despite

41:41

what the policies might be. You're

41:43

saying that it really depends on the management

41:46

that you're a director, That's

41:48

exactly how it goes. Because what

41:51

I've learned from UM since

41:53

I've been at Walmart, even the managers

41:55

don't know policies, and

41:58

and with the work app the hour

42:00

Walmart started, that has really,

42:03

really, really to the associates.

42:06

It's been beneficial to beneficial

42:08

to management because half the time

42:10

they don't even know the policy.

42:13

Just recently, UM, I

42:16

was having a conversation with my

42:18

personnel manager and I was

42:20

telling her. I was like, well, I went back and looking my check

42:22

stuff, and I noticed that if

42:24

you work a consecutives for a weeks full

42:27

time hours that you're supposed to be guaranteed the full

42:29

supposition. She was like, no,

42:31

full time, it's thirty four hours. I

42:34

was like, no, ma'am, it's thirty two hours.

42:36

I wanted so bad. It's tell her, maybe you need

42:38

to download work it so tell

42:40

us about this app? Work What is this

42:43

app? Oh?

42:45

My goodness is what

42:47

it is? Walmart? The only time associates

42:50

have time to access policies

42:53

is while they're on the clock. And

42:56

that's not good for anybody because who has

42:58

time. So our

43:01

decided that they would get

43:03

together and come up with this app so

43:05

that associates could go in

43:08

and ask questions and we have experts

43:10

which on one of them, and the experts

43:12

will go in and answer these questions for the

43:14

associates because nobody

43:17

has time to access policy while on

43:19

the clock. So Our felt like we

43:21

need to do something about that. We need to you

43:24

know, be able to put it policies

43:26

right in the associate's hands.

43:30

It's like having a policy professional in your

43:32

pocket while you're on the job, right

43:35

right, But it almost makes

43:37

me I think that's awesome, but it almost makes

43:39

me a little sad that it had to come to that that

43:41

these Walmart associates are up against

43:44

such misinformation from their own managements

43:46

sometimes that they need to have that

43:49

third party app to be able to say, no,

43:51

here's what the law is, here's what your rights

43:53

are. And if you're and you can't even really

43:56

expect your manager to protect

43:58

those rates or even really tell you accurately

44:00

what they are, it's like up to you to figure that out.

44:04

You're exactly right, they can't see how you accurately

44:06

what they are because they don't know themselves. It

44:09

seems like a really whackway to run a business,

44:11

to be quite honest, Like I

44:13

think it is too. I think that should be one

44:15

of the first things before you know, becoming

44:18

a manager. No policy, Yeah, you know,

44:20

it's not like Walmart doesn't have the resources

44:22

to train people. It's not like they aren't training people.

44:25

It's not like they have a small workforce,

44:27

like they are one of the l there

44:29

is the largest employer in their country

44:32

and they're the largest private employer in the world

44:34

exactly, So you can't

44:36

have your policies available

44:38

to workers who aren't on the clock.

44:41

Like really, obviously that's

44:43

an intentional choice, Like come on, really,

44:47

Like that's what I'm Loft scratching my head hearing

44:49

from you, Janey about

44:52

the ways in which obstacles seem to

44:54

be put in individuals pass so

44:57

much so that the burden always falls on you.

44:59

The burden falls on the individual associate

45:02

to advocate for the basic fairness

45:05

that is already stipulated in the

45:07

policies. But maybe your manager doesn't

45:10

even know or respect them, and so I

45:12

guess, I guess. My question is, you

45:15

know, what do you feel about

45:17

this situation with mod Cloth? I

45:19

know that you've been involved with our Walmarts Modcloth

45:21

campaign. How do you feel like

45:23

that's an extension of what Walmart's been doing? Or

45:26

why is it important to know or

45:28

for our listeners to know what mod

45:30

cloth is just signed up for

45:32

by being acquired by Walmart. I

45:36

don't. I really don't think mark Cloth knows what they're

45:38

getting into. That's that's what I really think.

45:41

Um. Then Walmart

45:44

bottom out there,

45:46

you know, their their closmers were really upset

45:48

because they was like, Wow, we can't believe you

45:51

would sell your line to Walmart.

45:53

Of all people, Walmart, they don't stand

45:56

up for women. They don't, you know, treat their women fairly.

45:59

And I just believe that

46:01

this is nothing more than an attempt to cover up

46:03

a long history of poor treatment of women. Can

46:06

you tell us a little bit about what our Walmart

46:08

is doing around moder cloth, your new campaign about

46:10

it? Yes, ma'am. Well

46:13

what Hour has done. They've launched this campaign

46:15

called hashtag by

46:18

my Clock, which is b b ye

46:25

yes, yes. Um.

46:29

What we're doing is um this cyber

46:31

Monday. We're calling on women to stop shopping

46:33

at Mar Claus and we're asking them to join

46:35

Walmart Associates, former mar

46:38

Class Expociates and other

46:40

progressive allies to say hashtag

46:43

by Mark cloy Why do you think

46:45

it's important for all kinds of women to know

46:47

about the way that Walmart treats its employees,

46:49

particularly female employees, because

46:52

I mean, they need to know. Like you said,

46:54

Walmart is one of the big is the biggest

46:57

corporations in the world, and they

46:59

don't want to they're associates. They

47:01

don't give enough hours if they do,

47:04

and the scheduling conflict is so

47:06

crazy, and you know, people

47:09

they don't have times, you know, to take

47:11

off time for themselves or their families that the

47:13

ship and you know, or

47:16

take pay family leaves and

47:18

people even know this, they really do. And

47:20

then that we can't actually go out and boycott

47:23

Walmart, we decided, well, here's

47:25

a better way. Maybe there's a help. You know

47:27

what I'm saying, being that they bought

47:29

my claws, Let's see what we can

47:31

do. Let's see if we can shut them down.

47:34

That's basically what we're trying to do. I

47:36

love it, Jade. I have to say, you schechly

47:38

as like a really bold, outspoken

47:41

person taking on Walmart and not being

47:43

afraid to advocate and speak up for better practices.

47:45

Do you ever fear of retaliation from Walmart?

47:48

Er? Has that ever been a problem.

47:51

I haven't as of yet. I mean at my

47:53

store. Like I said, I'm from a little small

47:55

town and we have a smaller

47:57

supercenter. Everybody knows

48:00

who I am. Before

48:02

I even joined Hour, I was always outspoken,

48:05

you know. I never held anything back

48:07

because I always

48:09

feel like what's right is right and what's wrong

48:12

is wrong. And I've

48:14

been a big advocate for myself since

48:17

I've worked in Walming. I've never advocated so

48:19

hard for myself, Trying to get hours,

48:21

trying to get a better position, trying to

48:24

get full time. So I

48:26

had to step up. I had to step up because

48:28

I had I used to get tired of associates

48:31

coming to me talking about, you know, things

48:33

that wasn't going their way or things that wasn't

48:35

right in the store, and I was like, well,

48:38

you know, why not just joined with me.

48:40

You know, they're trying to make things better for ourselves.

48:44

But it's kind of hard because I

48:46

live in the right to work state, so everybody

48:48

is afraid, Well, I don't want to lose to my job and something.

48:52

I had to stop being afraid. I was no

48:54

longer afraid, you know, whether they

48:56

were. I got the point where I really didn't care

48:58

whether they retaliated and not, because

49:01

as long as I'm setting up for was right, I

49:03

can't be wrong. Where

49:05

did you find that courage, Janey? Because

49:07

it isn't easy. What you've described

49:09

to us today does not sound

49:12

easy. And you've got a child at home, right,

49:14

You've got that your eighteen year old son that

49:17

I mean, and he still relies on you.

49:19

I assume what is it

49:22

feel like to have the courage to advocate for

49:24

yourself while you still

49:26

really want to provide for your family

49:28

and for yourself and make your life better

49:31

while making lives for all associates

49:33

better Where do you find that courage? And

49:37

my son, I mean that's

49:39

why I do this. I do this for him,

49:42

and he has a son, so I'm a grandmother.

49:45

I got yes, So

49:47

I'm trying to make a better life for them. You

49:49

know, I should have to

49:52

be are here advocating for better hours

49:54

or you know whatever.

49:56

But I got to because if I don't,

49:59

then i' be stuck getting twenty

50:01

three hours twenty five hours a week. How

50:04

am I gonna live like that? I can't

50:07

that, I mean, I just it's no, I

50:09

can't do that. So I

50:12

have to do what I have to do as

50:14

a mom, you know, and as a grandmother.

50:17

So if me advocating

50:19

for myself is what it takes, that's

50:21

that's what it takes. And I get my courage

50:23

from them. They're my motivation,

50:26

you know. That's what keeps me going

50:28

day to day. That's what keeps me in Walmart.

50:31

That's why I've been there so long because it's not easy

50:33

trying to find another job. I've been putting

50:35

in applications everywhere, and

50:38

just recently I've been you know, getting called in for

50:40

interviews, which is fine, but no

50:42

one to say we're here, you know, we

50:44

we We're gonna hire you until that day comes.

50:47

I'm gonna have to stay at Walmart, and I'm gonna

50:49

have to keep, you know, advocating for

50:51

myself and others. That's

50:53

beautiful. Do you ever feel like your son

50:55

and I guess your grandchild, granddaughter, grandson

50:59

Instagram soon and son. Do you ever

51:01

feel like your son and your grandson that you're

51:03

actually through what you're doing with our Walmart

51:05

and advocating for yourself and other associates,

51:07

that you're really setting up this idea of

51:10

women as these strong, vocal advocates

51:12

who fight for positive change? Yes?

51:16

Yes, do you feel like a role model

51:18

for them? I'm trying to be. It's

51:20

not easy, but it's not easy.

51:22

I'm trying to be. You're like, I mean, I

51:25

mean, what what mother doesn't want their kids

51:28

or grandkids to actually look up to them?

51:30

You know what I'm saying. You have to lead by example,

51:32

and that's what I try to do. I try

51:34

to, you know, to teach my son that you

51:36

can't let anything stand in your way. You

51:39

have to go out there and you have to get it. There's no

51:41

excuse, even though even

51:44

though you may not always

51:46

get what you want. You have to at least

51:48

try so. Absolutely.

51:51

How can our listeners who are listening

51:53

to your story and are listening

51:55

to what's happening with our Walmarts mod

51:58

cloth campaign and with Walmart

52:00

in general is treating associates and

52:02

women, how can they join

52:05

you? Because you shouldn't have to shoulder

52:07

this burden all by yourself, right, you shouldn't

52:09

have to be alone in this effort, and it shouldn't

52:11

be up to just Walmart associates

52:14

to make this positive change

52:16

in the globe's largest employer.

52:19

What can we do to get involved?

52:22

What can everyday people do to support

52:25

workers rights of Walmart? Okay,

52:28

well, the first thing you can do is can

52:30

you can support this hashtag

52:33

buy mor clock campaign? And

52:35

I have three ways of how

52:37

you can do that. First, you

52:39

could plash to stop shopping at mar clos

52:42

so they treat women with respect by

52:44

visiting www that my

52:46

clock is Walmart dot org.

52:49

Two, you can say the message to my class

52:51

on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter

52:54

and said, although why you're no longer shop at at

52:56

mar clock, be sure to use

52:58

the hashtag by my

53:01

clod. And three, you

53:03

can share hashtag by mom claws

53:05

content from our Facebook face stand

53:08

Up to Walmart. You can find

53:10

it on Facebook by just typing it stand

53:12

up to Walmart. So if anybody

53:14

wants to jump in there with us and

53:17

help us with this campaign, that would be

53:19

great. Hell yeah, by

53:21

my class by clost by it.

53:27

I'm so honored that you took

53:29

time today to share your story with us, Jennie.

53:32

I feel like so often

53:35

we talk about workers rights

53:37

and away on this show

53:39

that doesn't always break down the

53:41

realities of what it actually looks like to

53:43

be on the receiving end of

53:46

short term shift work from a

53:48

major corporate entity like

53:50

Walmart. And so your story

53:52

really just made it so real for us in

53:54

terms of what it means to be faced

53:56

with seriously tough choices and

53:59

unto off of dealing with that injustice,

54:03

taking on the added burden of

54:05

changing how things are for everyone.

54:08

So thank you, Jenny for being such an inspiration

54:10

and an example of what it looks like

54:12

to be a boss advocate for

54:15

yourself, even when you're

54:17

not gonna always get what you want. Like you said,

54:19

like the courage that you've just described

54:22

as so inspiring to me. And

54:24

and I'm so excited that our listeners can

54:26

weigh in, can support your campaign?

54:29

Can hashtag by mud Cloth

54:31

all day every day and especially on Cyber

54:34

Monday and Black Friday? Yes?

54:36

Yes, right,

54:39

Well, I appreciate you guys having

54:41

me, and I'm hoping that you

54:43

know we have more people than a jump on board with this

54:45

campaign and help us out because we need all the help

54:47

we can get. You know, enough

54:49

is enough and it's

54:52

just sound for Walmart to

54:54

take responsibility for what

54:56

they're not doing. So hopefully

54:59

this I hope a lot. Thank

55:02

you, Thank you lady, Thank you so much, Janey.

55:04

We really appreciate you being here with us and you

55:06

know, all all the best with your campaign

55:08

and continuing to advocate for change both

55:10

at Walmart and to be that awesome

55:13

role model for your kids. Love

55:16

it? Okay, sminty listeners, what do you

55:18

think of all this? What do you think of the Modcloth

55:21

Walmart acquisition? Do you still shop at

55:23

Modcloth? Did you never shop at Modcloth?

55:25

Did you love Modcloth? And now you're feeling conflicted?

55:28

How does Walmart show up in your life? We know

55:30

they're the world's largest private retailer.

55:32

Do you shop there, do you work there? Does someone

55:35

in your life work there? How? Does it show up in your

55:37

life? Join us on social media to continue

55:39

this conversation. You know where to find us on

55:41

Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, hit

55:43

us up on Instagram at stuff Mom Never

55:45

Told You, And as always, we love getting

55:48

your emails, so send them our way at mom Stuff

55:50

at how stuff works dot com.

56:00

Don't