0:05

Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to

0:07

Stefan.

0:07

Never told your prediction of iHeartRadio, and

0:18

today we are once again thrilled to be joined

0:20

by the amazing, the astounding, the

0:23

astonishing Brute Todd.

0:26

Welcome back, Britie.

0:27

We love Thank you for having

0:29

me. I am excited to be back.

0:32

Yes, we are as always

0:34

glad to have you back. We

0:36

were talking about this a little off mic before.

0:39

But happy belated birthday.

0:40

Thank you?

0:42

Yes, yes, Did

0:44

you do anything fun or how

0:46

have you been in general?

0:48

I have been good if my voice sounds a

0:50

little bit rasp beats, because my friends and I did

0:52

birthday karaoke over the

0:54

weekend and there was lots

0:56

of screaming and singing. And

0:58

I sometimes get this say where I

1:01

don't do a lot of karaoke, but I love karaoke and

1:03

I'm that person who, after a few drinks

1:06

insists on singing a ballad. And

1:08

my friends got lucky because the ballad that I

1:10

wanted to do they did not have. So yeah,

1:14

friends one bridget zero.

1:17

Wait, so what is your go to karaoke song?

1:19

This says a lot about you.

1:20

Oh God, I think so. It depends on

1:23

for a ballad. I wanted to do an

1:25

Amy Winehouse song. I wanted to do Me

1:27

and Mister Jones, which is a

1:30

favorite of mine, which they didn't have, which

1:32

I feel like is like practically a hate crime

1:34

to not have a robust Amy Winehouse

1:37

selection at karaoke.

1:38

Yeah, how dare you?

1:40

What are your go to songs?

1:43

I am a nineties like,

1:45

I'm the gen X millennial person who has

1:47

to hit my nineties hits so

1:50

that it will include TLC Destiny's

1:53

Child if they have Wilson

1:55

Phillips, which I there was a TikTok video about

1:57

if you want to get

2:00

slash millennials to stop arguing

2:02

or stopping their tracks, do a Wilson

2:04

Phillips hold On And I'm like, well, that's rude

2:07

and right, but it's okat. I

2:12

didn't need that because I'm also very

2:14

aware of as much as I would love to do a Whitney Houston

2:16

track, and we usually do like dance with somebody,

2:18

I want to dance with somebody. I know her

2:21

range is way out of my league.

2:23

Although past host

2:25

Caroline, she does an amazing condition

2:28

of that song.

2:29

I believe it, actually I can see it.

2:31

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but I'm I'm that girl that

2:33

I love all of those. Then you gotta

2:36

throw some Fiona Apple in there. You know it

2:38

did some Backstreet Boys or for me in

2:40

sync, I feel like those are my go too.

2:44

Sorry I'm Backstreet

2:46

Boys. Yeah, I know, I know.

2:49

Yeah, I'm kind of embarrassed.

2:51

My mind different.

2:54

I love it.

2:55

I have a very vary

2:58

range of karaoke songs. I like to do. Mulan

3:02

Man, that's a good

3:04

one.

3:05

I will say. That's like all the producers,

3:08

like our producers, producer Andrew, producer

3:11

Dylan, like, they will get together and

3:14

Ramsey will get together and do a whole rendition

3:17

of that song.

3:18

It was quite fabulous. They do a great job.

3:21

I think at a certain point,

3:24

I'm not very good at karaoke. I love it,

3:26

but I'm not very good. And at a certain

3:28

point I started thinking of like, what are songs

3:30

I know people will sing, and those

3:33

are the songs that I request Now, So I do like the

3:35

Pokemon song, which I loved

3:39

Pokemon, but I like people

3:41

love it and I know the lyrics are easy enough.

3:44

My big one is I do Ludicris get Back.

3:48

Of course from Georgia.

3:49

People like are like you have to do

3:52

it before karaoke is over,

3:54

like that's the one I'm known for.

3:57

But then I do. I just like so many

3:59

songs I want to singer, like sad songs

4:01

are they're long songs, and

4:04

I don't think those are good karaoke songs.

4:06

They're not good karaoke songs. But truth

4:08

true friends will let you do a ballad or two

4:10

like that's like, yes, I agree

4:13

that good fun karaoke to watch

4:15

is karaoke where it's a silly, fun

4:17

song, fast paced, everybody

4:19

is singing along. But I don't know, like

4:21

you should be able to have your little moment where

4:24

you do you demand silence so you can sing

4:26

Amy Winehouse.

4:28

Yes, I'm no

4:30

good. Amy Winehouse is one of my favorites

4:32

as well.

4:33

That's a good one. That's a really good long one.

4:36

Sometimes a country song is good.

4:38

My partner I had practiced. We wanted

4:40

to do a practist.

4:43

We promised we wanted to do a

4:45

duet because it was actually tennically both of

4:47

our birthdays we have the same birthday, and so

4:50

right we were gonna do Love Shack.

4:52

We listened to Love Shack ten times.

4:55

We had come up with like dance

4:57

moves and I don't know if you know that song,

4:59

but there are like different vocal

5:02

parts and we had really practice and then they didn't have it

5:04

after all that.

5:05

What okay?

5:06

First of all, hello University of Georgia.

5:09

Be ifty dude Georgia.

5:11

Those are my people's like saying that or are

5:13

im?

5:14

How dare you? Why would I not?

5:17

But yeah, those are challenging songs because

5:19

they're their vocals are pretty intense and the

5:21

fact that they didn't have it there and you practice, all

5:23

right, can we just do you have? Like? You should just

5:25

do it online? They do it for

5:28

a TikTok video because there's lots

5:30

of karaoke apps out

5:33

there, or if you're like any you can buy your own machine

5:37

machine.

5:38

Yes I do. And as lights.

5:40

It has like like it's really embarrassing,

5:42

but it has like the button you press and it goes.

5:48

House.

5:49

We come to Washington, d c.

5:51

Oh, Yeah, we're

5:53

gonna do it.

5:54

Is it big?

5:55

No?

5:56

No?

5:58

Yeah? A sign you can't

6:00

see you, but you can't see listeners.

6:02

But it's like a smallish

6:04

box.

6:05

Yeah, okay, we're doing this.

6:07

I'm so excited to get this done. She's going to carry

6:09

this on plane. But if

6:11

you're doing it for TikTok. We're gonna need to do that very quickly

6:14

because ah.

6:15

Oh yeah, this is a great

6:18

segue, masterful segue. Samantha

6:21

did it, and that is I mean, I feel like,

6:23

I think we might have talked about this before, but I feel

6:25

like we have to get back into it because

6:27

there's so much going on, and that is what's happening

6:29

with a potential maybe

6:32

sort of TikTok band in the United

6:34

States.

6:34

Have you all been following this, Oh, I'm

6:36

glad you brought this up because I was actually going to do this as a

6:39

Monday mini in this conversation

6:41

because this is going to affect a lot of marginalized

6:44

people and we have to talk about

6:46

it because this is also

6:49

this is very controversial. But I'm

6:51

also confused because I don't know where to

6:53

side because there's so many people on the

6:55

spectrum for and against that I'm

6:57

surprised by.

6:59

Yeah, this is one of those issues where

7:01

you have very strange bedfellows,

7:03

Like it's bipartisan legislation and

7:06

so, which, you know, for any

7:08

kind of topic, to have folks

7:11

on either side of the aisle agreeing

7:13

right unanimously is a little bit unusual.

7:16

Some of the people who are coming out against it, in

7:18

my opinion, are not necessarily

7:21

who you would imagine. So I agree,

7:23

And I guess all of that is to say, I

7:25

had a very difficult time figuring

7:28

out where I stood on this legislation. Wasn't

7:30

until pretty recently that I was like, Okay, I feel like I

7:32

have my opinion made up, but it took me

7:34

a while to get there, exactly because of

7:36

what you described, Sam.

7:38

Right, Yeah, I

7:40

feel like we should

7:42

we should get into it, because again I don't really use TikTok,

7:45

but I did follow it because I

7:47

was curious about what would happen, Like, oh,

7:50

if this happens, yeah, then

7:52

what's what's next.

7:54

It's going to set a big precedent. It talks about

7:56

who's who has power of what, who

7:58

is actually getting the information that

8:01

people are saying they're getting the information, and for

8:03

me, for me and you, bridget who are

8:05

actually on TikTok. Are we seeing

8:08

an algorithm that is biased, that

8:10

TikTok is trying to get us on

8:12

their side? Like, there's so many questions here.

8:14

These are all great questions, so let's

8:16

get into it. So basically, we're

8:19

calling it a TikTok ban, which is not like

8:22

incorrect, but it's not technically

8:24

accurate. So this legislation that we've seen

8:26

moving through the House in

8:28

the last few weeks is called protecting

8:30

Americans from Foreign Adversary controlled

8:33

Applications at and it wouldn't technically

8:36

ban TikTok specifically. Rather,

8:38

this legislation, if passed, would block

8:40

social media apps that are quote

8:43

controlled by a foreign adversary

8:45

in the United States. Right now, TikTok

8:48

is owned by the Chinese based parent company

8:50

byte Dance, So when it comes to TikTok,

8:52

what that would mean is that byte Dance would be

8:55

forced to sell TikTok to an American

8:57

owner in order to operate in the

8:59

US. If this legislation were to become law.

9:02

That is kind of a tricky thing.

9:04

TikTok CEO shows Too

9:07

has repeatedly said, we're not going to do

9:09

that, We're not interested in selling. Will never happen,

9:12

And if this legislation

9:14

were to become law, they would have to

9:16

do this in about six months, which is not

9:18

a ton of time. I'm certain this would

9:21

be a very complicated transfer

9:23

of power. You know, we're talking about potentially

9:25

like a multi billion dollar deal here,

9:28

and so forcing TikTok

9:30

to do that in six months is

9:33

it's like a really tall order, so

9:35

much so that it is essentially

9:37

a TikTok ban, even if it's not a

9:39

ban in a technical sense.

9:52

So recently watched the video on

9:54

several different TikTok creators,

9:56

as well as the press conference that

9:58

the Chinese leaders did. I

10:01

don't know if you saw this, essentially saying it's

10:03

actually written in the contract that byt

10:05

dance cannot by law

10:07

sell away from

10:09

China, like they that was always a part

10:12

of the contract, that's always been there, and

10:14

to the point that the government,

10:16

our government knew that. So

10:19

it makes me like they I and everybody's accusing. So this

10:21

is an actual ban without them saying band

10:23

trying not to be the bad guys exactly.

10:26

So I keep seeing people being like, well, it's not a band,

10:28

it's not a band, Okay. Maybe

10:30

it doesn't use the word ban, maybe it's not

10:32

a band in the most like hyper technical

10:35

sense, but functionally

10:37

this is a band, right, Like, I completely

10:40

agree with you. And even that

10:42

alone is one of these things that kind of

10:44

makes me wonder about how this legislation came

10:46

together. You know the

10:49

fact that they are going out

10:51

of their way to have a carve out

10:53

to say it's not really a band when

10:56

functionally it basically is.

10:58

Right literally saying this is these these are

11:00

your options to sell or be

11:03

banned, and then then the actual

11:05

company being like, well, no, it is in our contract that

11:07

we can't sell.

11:09

So and you knew this.

11:10

You were putting us in a rock, you know, the rock

11:13

and a hard place in that situation of like, no, we're just

11:15

going to be out, and the Chinese knows

11:17

that the US,

11:19

as many users as there are, are not the only users

11:22

exactly.

11:24

So that actually brings up like a pretty

11:26

clear next question of whether

11:29

or not there is a someone

11:31

who would buy this right like TikTok.

11:34

It would probably be a multi billion

11:36

dollar sale tip to acquire

11:38

TikTok, and there's not really a lot of

11:40

people who have emerged who are

11:43

you know, in a position to buy this.

11:46

However, former Trump administration

11:48

Treasury Secretary Steve Menuchin said

11:51

last week that he's actually putting together

11:53

an investor group to buy

11:55

TikTok. So, yeah, a

11:57

former Trump administration official

12:00

could own it. Now I've put that into a

12:02

little bit of context. That would mean that Elon

12:04

Musk owns Twitter, Manonchin

12:07

would own TikTok, and that

12:09

would really be a huge change

12:11

in our social media landscape. In

12:13

my opinion, I don't think that would be

12:15

a change for the better necessarily.

12:18

Right, we already know what's happening with I misinformation

12:20

on Facebook and who dictates

12:23

all of that, which is very

12:26

concerning in itself. So that means

12:29

all of I mean, I will say.

12:31

Someone said, and this is a whole different conversation

12:34

that Reddit is becoming the new safe space.

12:36

Oh that's so interesting because I've actually

12:38

found myself. I was like a Reddit power

12:41

user back in the day, and then

12:44

I stopped using it so much. I started using

12:46

Twitter and Instagram more. Now

12:48

I'm back on Reddit, and there's something about

12:50

it because like, for me, I

12:53

really need to have a reliable

12:55

text based social media platform

12:57

as much as I like TikTok, you

13:00

know, I need to. I need to. I'm I'm a words

13:02

person, Like I like to read words. I like

13:04

to write words. Being on

13:06

camera on video, which is a different thing.

13:09

I like watching other people be on video and

13:11

be on camera. But I'm a words

13:13

person and I think, like so,

13:15

Reddit has kind of re emerged as

13:17

a place where I'm spending more and more of my time

13:19

and it's actually feeling pretty good.

13:21

Yeah, and I think I don't think you're the only one. Like I said,

13:23

people are calling that kind of the safe space because if

13:25

they're actually well monitored and

13:28

you're going to uh, you know, the subreddit

13:30

that is specifically for you, that it has been

13:33

well moderated in

13:35

an affair and like objective manner,

13:38

and peopleally really like trusting that

13:40

system more now because they're

13:42

worried about TikTok. But

13:44

back to like we need to talk about what exactly

13:47

is this legislation

13:49

that they're trying to pull.

13:50

So it passed the House last week

13:53

and now it goes to the Senate. President

13:55

Biden has already said that if it passes

13:57

the Senate, he will sign it in

14:00

law. White House Press Secretary Karine

14:02

Jean Pierre said that the Biden administration is

14:04

really looking to the Senate to act quickly on

14:07

this legislation, and so like it could

14:09

be something that moves fast. However,

14:11

I will say that as quickly

14:14

as this legislation passed the House,

14:16

passing the Senate is looking like it

14:18

might be a little bit more complicated. A

14:20

bipartisan group of senators is already

14:23

sort of signaling that they would not necessarily

14:25

be down for voting for a TikTok ban. For

14:27

instance, Senator ran Paul described

14:30

the bill as a quote draconian

14:32

measure that stifles free expression, tramples

14:34

the constitutional rights, and disrupts the economic

14:37

pursuits of millions of Americans. Senator

14:39

Ed Markey, a Democrat from Massachusetts,

14:41

argued that the privacy issues that the bill is

14:44

meant to be, you know, addressing, exist

14:46

far beyond TikTok. So it does kind

14:48

of seem like it might not be

14:50

the kind of thing that is quickly and unanimously

14:53

passed in the Senate. It might there might be some

14:56

some pushback there.

14:58

Yeah, what I understood. Let Schumer,

15:01

who is the lead in the Senate,

15:03

was saying that he is in no hurry

15:06

to even look at this bill because

15:09

they have been kind of inundated with

15:11

a lot of opposition. Again, and this is one of those

15:13

moments when you said Ran Paul, Ran Paul and

15:15

Marjorie Taylor Green all opposing this makes me

15:17

think that I'm on the wrong side

15:20

if I sort of agree with them.

15:22

Yeah, I mean listen, so

15:25

you're exactly right. Chuck Schumer

15:28

didn't really have anything to say about the legislation

15:30

and the way that he's I forget how he said it exactly,

15:32

but like to me, it signaled I

15:35

am not taking a position on this, and I'm in no

15:37

hurry to make us a priority. That's what it

15:39

looks like to me. You're so right that

15:43

the people who are for and against

15:46

it is so because usually it's like whatever

15:48

Margory Taylor Green is for, I am probably against

15:50

and vice versa. Right, But you know, even

15:52

I think last week former President

15:55

Trump came out against

15:57

a TikTok band, which that's a reversal

15:59

of previous positions, right, So

16:01

it's like it is very difficult to

16:03

figure out where different elected officials

16:06

stand on this and use it's

16:08

difficult to use that as a barometer for

16:10

where as an individual folks

16:13

listening should stand.

16:14

I think there's so many conversations because we've already

16:16

talked about the original band

16:19

that we were talking about long tap ago with a show

16:21

to coming in front of the Senate testifying,

16:24

and then the xenophobic comments that happened

16:26

time after time and time after time, and

16:29

this is a whole different conversation that I have to have

16:31

with myself as an Asian person because

16:34

we have talked, we haven't talked much about the

16:36

fact that there's a lot

16:38

of misinformation and there's a

16:40

lot of kind of conspiracy theories

16:42

that the US is xenophobic

16:45

tactics from the past, and that

16:47

communism is not good. Don't

16:49

get me wrong in all of this, but the

16:52

level of evilizing

16:55

and condemning of the

16:58

places like China and North Korea again

17:00

not good. But a part of that conversation

17:02

is because they're not Christian enough. That

17:05

has been a part of that too. That makes me wonder

17:07

how much of this is

17:09

a colonized idea of

17:11

what they expected China and

17:14

these other countries to become and when they

17:16

are of power because they are not Christian

17:18

nations? Is that that is

17:20

that part of their what they see as evil

17:23

of these places and then being successful.

17:25

I mean, you really can't have a conversation

17:28

about the way this legislation has been moving

17:31

without talking about xenophobia, and

17:33

I wish that wasn't the case, but it

17:35

is American

17:37

elected officials who are making

17:40

that the case. Like I wish we could have this conversation

17:42

about the merits of this legislation. However,

17:45

when you have elected officials

17:48

in hearings making blatantly

17:51

xenophobic and anti Asian comments

17:55

to TikTok CEO's,

17:57

you have to talk about it like it is. It is just inherently

18:00

heard the conversation. It makes it so that

18:02

you cannot talk about the legislation

18:04

on its own without talking about the sort

18:06

of like rhetoric that you're describing here,

18:09

and it really does us a disservice.

18:11

I think, because the American people

18:13

deserve to see the

18:15

merits of legislation you

18:17

know discussed. I think

18:20

that any person who is a CEO of the company

18:22

as big and as influential as TikTok should

18:24

be comfortable being grilled in front of elected

18:26

officials, and the American public should have a sense

18:29

of, like, where what they're thinking about. However,

18:32

when you retreat

18:34

into these harmful anti

18:37

Asian xenophobic stereotypes

18:40

and claims and theories, you

18:42

are doing everybody at disservice because we don't get

18:44

that right. We're talking about the xenophobia, and

18:46

we have to talk about the xenophobia because you brought

18:48

it up, you injected it into the conversation, does

18:50

that make sense.

18:51

The entire time the entire time, and calling them

18:53

the enemy state. Again, don't get me

18:55

wrong, I know that the history is complicated.

18:58

The Chinese government has done a lot of bad things.

19:00

The US government has done a lot of bad things. And

19:02

then this is like the back and forth of

19:04

like what is happening? But then also

19:07

it kind of comes down to the fact that again

19:09

maybe because I do enjoy TikTok and I

19:12

do go through and like love

19:14

my dog videos, I love my cue little animal,

19:16

I saw honors the'ed adorable, I want

19:18

one, but like all these things and

19:20

making it seem like if they shut

19:23

down TikTok, and it's like

19:25

that is shutting down the voice of

19:27

the people. And it's kind of interesting

19:29

to see what TikTok is doing and

19:31

trying to respond to the

19:34

governments like us against them like

19:37

seemingly totally.

19:38

So some of y'all might have gotten like

19:41

big alerts when you tried to open TikTok the last

19:43

few days, urging you to call your member

19:45

of Congress and tell them that you do not want

19:47

a TikTok. Band I actually didn't get one. Maybe

19:50

maybe they know that I'm in DC, and like there's

19:52

not a member of Congress that I could call. I could call Eleanor

19:54

Holmes Norton, but she doesn't get a vote, So like there's

19:57

really they're maybe they're like, we're not gonna waste our

19:59

time getting bridget with this ad.

20:01

But the alert reads stop

20:03

a TikTok shut down. Congress is planning

20:05

a total ban of TikTok. Speak up now before

20:07

your government strips one hundred and seventy

20:09

million Americans of their constitutional right to

20:11

free expression. This will damage millions of

20:13

businesses, destroy the livelihoods of countless

20:16

creators across the country, and deny artists

20:18

and audience. Let Congress know what TikTok

20:21

means. Over the weekend, they also did

20:23

a push notification that folks might have gotten to their

20:25

phones pretty much saying the same thing.

20:28

It honestly does sound like this is working. Congressional

20:30

staffers say that their phones were like

20:32

ringing off the hook. One house GOP

20:35

staffer told Politico that it was so so bad.

20:37

Our phones have not stopped bringing their teenagers

20:40

and old people, saying they spend their whole day

20:42

on the app and we cannot take it away.

20:44

You know, one creator was talking

20:46

about the fact that they actually said there was a lot of millennial

20:48

women, a lot of millennial women

20:51

calling in. They were kind of surprised how

20:53

many millennial women and when a middle

20:55

aged and millennial women were calling in talking

20:57

about this was going to affect their business.

21:00

Yeah. Actually, Essence just put

21:02

out a really really interesting article

21:04

about how many specifically black

21:07

women entrepreneurs

21:09

and creators were really using TikTok

21:11

to promote their businesses

21:14

and like find a foothold and in ways

21:16

that they were unable to do on other platforms,

21:18

and how much a TikTok ban was

21:20

concerning to them and their livelihoods economically,

21:23

and so that doesn't surprise me at

21:25

all. I also wanted to make one other comment

21:27

about that, which is that I think that TikTok

21:30

has a reputation of being like a young

21:32

person's app, and certainly it has a

21:34

lot of young users. However, the average

21:36

TikTok users age is thirty,

21:39

right, and so that's like I would call a thirty

21:41

year old young, but like a thirty

21:44

year old votes, you know, like these

21:46

are people who, you know, we're

21:48

not talking about a children's

21:51

app. And I think that perception is really

21:53

not correct, and I think that's the perception that people.

21:56

Have right, which

21:58

is an interesting because I

22:00

know the original idea of TikTok was

22:02

younger users, much younger. It was

22:04

like the dance app, which I

22:07

like dancing. I want to see people dance.

22:09

I can't do those moves, but I want to see them.

22:12

But it was it was interesting, and I know that

22:14

that's the big conversation of like who is

22:17

using it, who this is affecting, and who is able

22:19

to get on it. Of course we've already had that conversation

22:21

with like how quickly that's changing to and how

22:23

quickly they will shadow band many

22:26

a marginalized communities. But that's

22:28

the hair there totally.

22:31

And so just one other thing about these

22:33

these push notifications and stuff. I

22:35

have seen a lot of people say that TikTok

22:38

urging users to take political action

22:41

is evidence enough that the app is bad.

22:43

That they're like demanding that teenagers

22:46

call their congress person or whatever, and that like,

22:48

you shouldn't have an app telling young

22:50

people what to.

22:51

Do or whatever. But this is

22:53

so common for tech companies to do.

22:55

Both Uber and Lyft have sent

22:57

out similar push notifications asking

22:59

for users to contact congress or do certain

23:01

things. And so TikTok is not the only

23:04

tech company or app that has done

23:06

this kind of thing, and people trying

23:08

to act like this push notification action

23:11

was completely beyond the pale. It's

23:13

certainly not. It happens all the.

23:15

Time, right, which I feel

23:18

like if I remember correctly Twitter, different

23:20

Twitter accounts would have the like you

23:22

know, you could have the one link and they would

23:24

often do like at least like petitions. I

23:27

remember during a lot of the Black Lives Matter

23:29

stuff and many of the murdering

23:31

of the black community, they would have links

23:33

and petitions that would happen

23:36

through Twitter. So none of these things are

23:38

new. I'm wondering again,

23:40

and I know this is that bigger conversation of

23:42

like, maybe I'm just too caught up in some conspiracy

23:45

theories. But some of the conversations

23:47

that have happened with the pro Palestinian

23:50

movement and what's happening there

23:53

and many consider genicide, I consider

23:55

a genocide happening there, that TikTok

23:59

has been one of the biggest platforms

24:02

to actually have conversations about

24:05

that and through that because they do have

24:07

like the link tree that do have petitions

24:10

and alerts and all of these things like that

24:12

has happened, and I know there's a conversation

24:14

about whether or not that's part of this motivation.

24:17

Totally. I have so much to say about that.

24:19

I will say first, I think

24:21

a lot of the conversation around how

24:24

conversations about what's happening in

24:26

Palestine are unfolding

24:29

on TikTok. I think a lot of the conversation about

24:31

that, to me feels a little bit

24:33

ageist and condescending, Like it's

24:35

this idea that like, oh, well, if young people

24:38

are you know, if they feel

24:40

a certain way about what's happening

24:43

in Palestine, certainly is a Certainly

24:45

that is a problem, and it is it is TikTok's

24:48

fault, as opposed to saying like, well, maybe young

24:50

people are smart and with it and like

24:52

looked at looked at the information available to them and came

24:55

to a conclusion, and you

24:57

know, treating that with the respect

24:59

that it does. I see a lot of older

25:02

elected officials sort of handwringing

25:05

and being like, oh, well, the only

25:07

way that our kids could come to this conclusion

25:10

is that if this app is like tricking them

25:12

into it, and so there have been a lot of

25:14

interesting conversations about how

25:17

that fits into this

25:20

legislation to potentially ban TikTok,

25:22

this concern about where young

25:24

people are finding themselves when it comes to conversations

25:26

about Palestine.

25:38

I guess this brings us to a question. Then I feel

25:40

like the answer is kind of clear.

25:42

We've kind of talked about it ear last. A part

25:45

of it's clear, why is this happening

25:47

in the first place, bridget.

25:48

It's a great question. So if you take

25:50

these lawmakers at their word, if you take the

25:53

name of the legislation at its word, lawmakers

25:55

say that TikTok is a national security

25:57

risk because it's owned by China, and that the

25:59

app app could be compelled by

26:01

the Chinese government to manipulate

26:04

public opinion because you know,

26:06

they are you know, TikTok does have this like super

26:08

powerful algorithm that they can use to

26:11

boost certain content, suppress certain content,

26:13

that they could collect mass data on

26:16

Americans or even spy on

26:18

individual Americans. And so that's

26:20

sort of like what lawmakers

26:23

are saying they are trying to prevent with this legislation.

26:26

Okay, but is

26:28

that actually the thing?

26:31

So I should say here, this is a little

26:33

above my pay grade. But as

26:35

somebody who has done a lot of looking into this and had

26:37

many, many, many interviews on it, this

26:40

threat, my understanding, this threat

26:42

is just purely hypothetical. You

26:44

know, the Intercept is published a piece about

26:47

how when pushed on these

26:49

threats and like, when asked, you know, what is

26:51

the threat? Is the rest smoking gun? The FBI

26:54

uses phrases like oh, China could do X,

26:56

y Z if they wanted to, China

26:58

could potentially do right,

27:01

it seems to me that there is not a smoking

27:04

gun or like hard evidence

27:06

that this is happening or there's

27:08

a plan for this to happen. Now, you might

27:11

be listening and saying like, well, why

27:13

should we have to wait until there's a smoking gun? Why

27:15

should we have to wait until there's evidence that this is happening?

27:17

And that's a fair point, But as of right

27:20

now, they would be passing

27:22

this law to deal with a hypothetical

27:25

or potential threat that currently there

27:27

is just not evidence that's going on.

27:29

Right.

27:30

One of another creator that I was

27:32

looking at has actually posted I

27:35

think a recent list showing that the

27:37

likelihood of information being

27:40

farmed and Facebook and Amazon

27:42

and Instagram were top three while

27:44

TikTok was actually a number twelve.

27:47

Yes, so I'm so glad that you brought

27:49

that up. The fact of the matter

27:51

is is that we have a social media

27:53

and digital landscape that is just rife

27:56

with bad actors

27:58

and corporate interests and operations

28:00

who are doing bad things, in some

28:02

cases breaking the law to make

28:05

money off of us and to exploit us. That

28:07

is just a fact. I don't like

28:09

it, nobody should like it, but it is what it is.

28:12

And so this legislation to me, really

28:15

seems like it's cracking

28:17

down on TikTok for having

28:19

the same problems and same issues

28:21

that Facebook, Google, Twitter

28:24

all have, for exploiting us in the same

28:27

potentially exploiting us in the same ways that every other

28:29

social media platform has, but regulating

28:32

them because it's China. And this

28:34

is my opinion, I think that this

28:37

is really more about the

28:39

United States wanting to remain the

28:41

top dog when it comes to big tech, right,

28:44

Like I think I saw some joke that

28:46

was like, oh, like China

28:49

wants my data, don't they know that's reserved

28:52

for Mark Zuckerberg. I think that's exactly

28:54

what's going on here. I think that lawmakers

28:56

have figured out that by you

28:59

know, being tough on TikTok, they can

29:01

one you know, act

29:04

tough on taking down China, and

29:06

two make it seem like they

29:08

are sort of being tough on big tech

29:11

while actually doing nothing when it

29:13

comes to regulate big tech. Because just

29:15

the fact of the matter is big tech

29:17

companies enjoy a pretty

29:19

cozy relationship financially with

29:21

a lot of elected officials, and so if they were actually

29:24

to talk tough big on American big

29:26

tech, that conversation might get

29:28

a little bit thorny. But by regulating

29:31

TikTok in this way, they kind of get the

29:33

points and the appearance of being like

29:35

we're taking on big tech or really doing

29:37

nothing about taking on big tech.

29:39

I mean, we know that they let some laws

29:43

drop, some policies drop in order to

29:45

protect tech companies and their liability

29:47

way back when, and have been doing so

29:50

for a minute. But I think it's interesting

29:52

and I'm sure you've seen this Jeff Jackson,

29:55

Representative Jeff Jackson, who actually

29:57

really made his headway in TikTok,

30:00

Like his videos, his like common sense

30:02

takes seemingly in Congress

30:05

really like had him going like really

30:08

high in the polls and everybody. People

30:10

were talking about him being president, him being so great

30:12

for like being common sense and all these

30:14

things, and then he got called

30:17

out for voting yes to the TikTok

30:19

ban, which made him like this

30:21

the people that followed him made that for

30:24

him, and then him coming back on saying

30:27

that, you know, I don't think it's going to be banned. It's not gonna be banned.

30:29

It's fine, it's fine. No, I'm just a little concerned because you know,

30:31

what's in my ear. What's in my ear? And

30:33

then on top of that, people showing why

30:36

some of these possibly

30:38

like the conspiracy theories about why and this the

30:40

different people who are paying

30:43

the lobbyists who are coming through who are

30:46

actually pushing this narrative really

30:48

hard.

30:49

I mean, it's some of these aren't

30:51

conspiracy theories, right, Like we

30:53

know that Facebook or Meta

30:56

has pumped so much money into

30:58

anti TikTok like

31:00

negative pr right. Facebook

31:03

worked with a company called

31:05

Targeted Victory to get like negative

31:07

op eds about TikTok placed in

31:10

newspapers so that elected officials

31:12

would see them like this is a documented

31:14

thing, right, Like I don't think anybody at Facebook would

31:17

deny this is happening. It's it's like a

31:19

matter of public fact, and so we

31:22

do got to ask some questions about why,

31:25

because certainly a TikTok ban would

31:27

be great for Facebook and great for

31:29

Mark Zuckerberg, and they're certainly spending

31:31

a lot of money to

31:34

push a certain negative public perception

31:36

of TikTok with elected officials.

31:38

Like I remember when there was a

31:40

hearing a couple last year about

31:43

TikTok, and Facebook

31:45

had paid targeted Victory to

31:48

put op eds in papers about

31:50

like how young people had really

31:52

unfortunately died or hurt themselves

31:55

doing so called TikTok challenges, however,

31:58

obscuring the reality that some

32:00

of those TikTok challenges actually originated

32:02

on Facebook. Right. And so it's like, rather than

32:04

having the conversation about, well, what

32:06

platforms were actually responsible for this harm,

32:09

and like, like, let's talk about this harm

32:11

to kids, which we should be doing, it's

32:13

just a way of making TikTok the boogeyman

32:16

and letting Facebook off the hook for

32:18

harms that they also participate

32:21

in.

32:21

Right, And kind

32:24

of related back to our shops. When we're talking about TikTok

32:26

shops, there's a conversation that Amazon

32:28

have jumped on board because they have lost cells due

32:32

to TikTok shops. So that's a whole

32:34

different conversation. Again, so many

32:36

things that you're like, why are you doing this?

32:39

Yeah, money, I mean everybody, everybody

32:42

has

32:42

a stake

32:44

in this a little bit like Amazon

32:48

and Jeff Bezos certainly have a financial

32:50

stake in what's going to happen with

32:52

TikTok because TikTok is really

32:55

aggressively pushing TikTok shop as

32:58

a way to compete with online retailers

33:00

like Amazon, and so Amazon

33:02

obviously has a financial stake in what happens

33:04

with TikTok. And so we just got to be more honest,

33:07

I think, and have a bit more of an honest assessment

33:09

of the major players and why

33:12

they might be taking the positions that they're taking.

33:14

Right, but let's say all this is

33:16

just hearsay and conspiracies, as I'm

33:19

saying, even though we've talked about it's not. Is

33:22

TikTok trying to balance

33:24

out the fears?

33:25

So they are. TikTok's attempt

33:28

to balance out these fears is what they're

33:30

calling Project Texas. So TikTok

33:32

has committed to spend one point five billion dollars

33:34

on this plan, which would essentially enact

33:37

a firewall between TikTok and

33:39

employees of its Chinese based parent

33:41

company, fight Dance. It would sort of set

33:43

up this United States based firm called

33:46

Oracle as a kind of a watchdog

33:48

to scrutinize TikTok source code

33:50

and I guess like act like a third party

33:52

monitor for potential security risks. So basically

33:54

they're like, Okay, if you are so worried

33:56

about it, we will set up this firewall

33:59

and we will put it America tech firm

34:01

in charge of being a watchdog to make

34:03

sure everything is on the up and app Will that

34:05

actually be enough to satisfy these lawmakers? It

34:08

sounds like the answer is no so far,

34:10

Like, I have not actually seen a lot of people talking

34:12

about Project Texas as a thing that is

34:15

actually going to ameliorate the concerns

34:17

that these lawmakers are saying that they have.

34:20

I'm trying to imagine if they chose the name Project

34:22

Texas to try to wow.

34:25

I'm sure like,

34:29

oh my gosh, what conveys like

34:32

patriotism and like Americanism

34:34

and like oh United States, Project

34:37

Texas, Freedom Texas.

34:40

Now this is really interesting to me because I had

34:42

to take a moment. I was reading up about this

34:46

because again I was just curious about

34:48

what would happen, and I

34:51

was reminded of you

34:53

know, when I was in China. You know, Twitter's

34:55

band, Facebook is band, Instagram's

34:57

banned, Google's not allowed, Google

35:00

left voluntarily.

35:01

But then it's kind of like no.

35:04

But everybody used a VPN to just

35:06

like use it anyway. So I

35:08

was just thinking about, like, what would

35:11

that be, what was

35:13

that going to look like. It's

35:15

just it's a really fascinating kind

35:17

of terrifying thing. But I

35:21

guess the last time you were here, we

35:23

were talking about this, and

35:26

you know, we were talking about still

35:28

the same things of which

35:31

I know we'll get to later about you know, marginalized

35:33

communities being affected, because again in China, that

35:35

was a huge blow that they couldn't use these things.

35:38

But also you

35:40

know, having

35:43

these spaces is really important. But

35:46

they do have their issues, and last time you were

35:48

here, you were talking about like TikTok and what is

35:50

going on there with their issues.

35:52

Totally, So someone listening to

35:54

this might be like, wow, Bridget is like

35:57

being paid by TikTok or something, although,

35:59

as we discussed, I am wearing a TikTok sweatshirt

36:01

right now that I got as a free swag

36:04

from an event, only because it's the Comfy's sweatshirt

36:06

I've ever worn. However, like I

36:08

will be the first person to tell you

36:11

all the different ways that I think that TikTok

36:13

is messing up, I don't want to make

36:16

it, see Mike, I think TikTok is great. It

36:18

definitely has very big issues

36:20

that deserve to be talked about, that they deserve

36:22

to be made accountable for,

36:24

you know, just like any social media

36:26

platform in twenty twenty four, there are

36:28

some very valid concerns around TikTok

36:31

and security and other things too, And

36:33

anybody who tells you that there isn't just does

36:35

not know the fact. So we talked

36:37

about how a lawmakers are

36:39

concerned that TikTok could like

36:41

spy on Americans. They actually

36:44

have kind of done that already, you know. There were reports

36:46

that TikTok access journalist information

36:48

to identify which employees were leaking

36:51

information about the platform. TikTok

36:53

basically admitted to doing this, according to an internal

36:55

email. They were asked about this, and they were

36:57

like, well, it's not really spy,

37:00

and I mean, like, it does sound like spying

37:02

to me, you know, I get what they're kind of saying

37:04

that it's not like they were spying on

37:08

random American citizens for no reason.

37:10

They were spying on specifically journalists

37:13

to answer a specific question. To

37:15

me, spying is spying, So like, it's not like they have

37:17

a squeaky clean record on that, which

37:20

I think people should just be aware of. Also,

37:22

there's like plenty of other non

37:25

spying reasons that your average

37:27

person who uses TikTok or like has

37:29

a child or a sibling or something that uses TikTok

37:32

should be concerned about, right, what

37:34

issues when it comes to moderation, Like

37:36

Sam was talking about how TikTok

37:38

impacts mental health, one of the things

37:40

I wish that you talked about more is just like how

37:43

addictive these platforms are, how

37:46

they are intentionally made

37:49

to keep you scrolling for longer and longer

37:51

and longer, even when they know this

37:54

is actually harming them, this is actually making

37:56

them feel bad, Like they like, this is they know this

37:58

right, this is not this is not news

38:01

to them, and yet they still design

38:03

their platforms to be as addictive as possible.

38:05

These are questions I wish we had answers to right,

38:07

things like algorithmic suppression or algorithmic

38:10

manipulation, like are they showing you some

38:13

things and not showing you other things? And why?

38:15

Of course, the spread of things like mis and disinformation

38:18

and pushing users into extremist content.

38:20

But as much as these

38:22

are things that we should be talking about, none

38:24

of them are specific to just TikTok,

38:27

And so I have a problem

38:29

with this idea that the reason

38:31

the only reason that we should care about these issues

38:34

is when the platform is

38:36

owned by a Chinese based parent company.

38:38

I don't understand why we can't

38:40

then say like, okay, well, if these are problems, let's

38:43

actually address the problem, and let's actually call

38:45

out the different corporations for doing

38:47

the exact same thing, because it's not just

38:49

TikTok, and it makes it seem like they're making TikTok

38:52

into this singular boogeyman, when

38:54

anybody who has used Facebook or Twitter

38:56

or Instagram knows that is not the

38:59

case.

39:09

Mean, Twitter in itself is

39:12

a cesspool of white

39:14

supremacist, not neo Nazi movements.

39:17

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking

39:19

about this too, because I was

39:21

like, you know, it's

39:25

it's really if we lose

39:27

TikTok, we've already

39:29

kind of lost Twitter, Like we're losing these spaces.

39:32

It's and they were important, Like

39:36

there there is such a use and a

39:38

value in them, and it

39:40

is sometimes I feel like

39:42

when people don't use them or they don't understand

39:45

them, they dismiss that they're just like, but

39:48

there is so much happening and so much

39:50

being shared that is important on them. We

39:53

already lost Twitter.

39:54

Yeah, I mean, like I

39:56

think that context is really important of

39:59

what will it be like

40:02

when if there is no TikTok and Twitter

40:04

is functionally not usable,

40:07

you know, for particularly for marginalized

40:09

people, right, Like, you know, I

40:14

feel like I cannot use Twitter

40:16

without seeing transphobia,

40:20

racism, horrible conspiracy

40:22

theories, harassment, and so it's not a platform that

40:24

I can really tolerate spending a lot of time on anymore

40:27

so for marginalized people

40:29

who do not want to be subjected

40:31

to that kind of nonsense. Where

40:33

if we lose TikTok, where's the organizing

40:36

happening? Right again, to

40:38

add even a little more context, folks

40:40

might have seen a couple of weeks ago that Meta

40:42

made an announcement that they were going to be deprioritizing

40:45

content about political and social issues,

40:47

right, and so if they are making

40:49

that choice, and it's going to be that much harder

40:52

for political and social issues,

40:54

which Meta has a track record of really defining

40:57

those issues as issues pertaining to women,

41:00

queer folks, trans folks, black folks, Right,

41:02

those are the issues when they say political

41:04

issues and social issues from their

41:06

own behavior, like that is what they mean. They

41:08

have a whole track record of suppressing

41:12

content about abortion access

41:15

and Palestinian

41:17

activism and black activism and things

41:20

that pertain to marginalized communities. So

41:22

that being the case, where are these where are

41:24

we supposed to do our organizing? Where are we supposed

41:26

to build power online? Particularly

41:28

given that building power online

41:31

has been so important to traditionally marginalized

41:33

communities, It's really a deep question

41:35

that I'm quite concerned.

41:36

About, right, And Honestly, platforms

41:39

like TikTok really help with brand

41:42

new creators, Like this is where you can

41:44

see like there's not

41:46

nepotism working. It's literally people who

41:48

go viral for whatever reason, good

41:51

or bad, but essentially they're

41:53

just making it on their own whether it's sure

41:56

algorithm has everything to do with it, but we're able

41:58

to see more and more content from like

42:01

everyday people, like every day people

42:03

who get to do great content, and

42:05

people can pick and choose who they want to follow and

42:07

who they don't want to follow, and it's actually

42:10

something that they do on their own. And I know YouTube

42:12

once upon a time was that kind of same idea as

42:15

well. But with this level of like needing

42:17

to be ad sponsored on

42:19

YouTube, that kind of has gone away. You already

42:21

need a connection, whether it's through an agency,

42:24

whether it's through something to actually make

42:26

big again on YouTube, as where TikTok

42:28

has kind of become that new YouTube where you

42:30

can be discovered as a brand new thing.

42:33

Yeah. In that article I mentioned in essence

42:35

about the black women entrepreneurs who

42:37

were really concerned about a TikTok ban, that

42:39

was something they really made clear is that on

42:42

YouTube, in order to find success,

42:44

you have to have a kind of like already

42:46

have some sort of name or connection. It

42:48

is very difficult to sort of start from zero and

42:50

start building up. I'm hearing that YouTube

42:52

shorts, this sort of like new TikTok

42:55

competitor on YouTube might be a little

42:57

easier. So like that's a platform that

42:59

folks might to check out. But it

43:01

just goes to show that, like it's

43:05

just so hard to use

43:07

social media to build a platform

43:09

for yourself. And with all of

43:11

these changes, and with the different

43:14

platforms changing so rapidly, not to

43:16

mention the overall landscape changing so rapidly,

43:19

that is certainly going to hurt marginalize

43:21

people the most, people who don't necessarily

43:23

have access to like traditional

43:25

media outlets and like legacy media and

43:28

things like that. And so it's just really

43:30

clear to me that we are potentially

43:32

gearing up to a digital media landscape

43:34

where it is that much harder for

43:37

underrepresented voices to be heard

43:40

equitably and in a way that's truly representative.

43:43

Right, So, with all of that and

43:46

all the conversations that I'm throwing out,

43:48

with all the things that I've seen on my algorithm,

43:51

what do you kind of lay out there

43:53

what you think is really happening right now?

43:56

So, as I said, I think that lawmakers

43:58

have really sent that like they

44:00

need to be cracking down on TikTok. It will help them

44:03

kind of look tough on China, will also kind

44:05

of help them look like they're doing something to reign

44:07

in big tech, even though they're not. I

44:09

think that the United States really wants to remain

44:11

a major player when it comes to big

44:14

tech, but also the like massively

44:16

lucrative data collection industry.

44:20

I think that like this is really

44:22

about that concern

44:24

to me, because you know,

44:27

if you really wanted better data privacy,

44:29

which we should have, it does not begin

44:32

an end with banning TikTok are,

44:34

especially when all of our data is

44:37

essentially for sale to whoever wants it, which

44:39

if you're an American, I'm sorry to report

44:41

that it's just true. Anybody out there who wants

44:43

to buy your address, your

44:46

phone number, really any piece of information

44:48

about you can do that, and they can do it legally,

44:50

And so that's to me, that's something

44:53

that seems bad, and that

44:55

includes countries like China.

44:57

Only a few weeks ago, back in February,

45:00

I signed an executive order that

45:02

ostensibly was meant to limit the sale

45:04

of some of our data to quote countries

45:07

of concern. But this order

45:09

really just puts some limitations on

45:11

the sales of American data. As Wired points

45:13

out, US data brokers

45:16

need only take a few steps to ensure

45:18

that overseas customers follow certain

45:21

security requirements during the transfer, many

45:23

of which were already required by law.

45:25

So I really just have a hard time understanding why

45:27

TikTok is such a threat given

45:30

that China would not even need TikTok

45:32

to get our data. As long as they follow certain guidelines,

45:35

they can legally buy it the same as anybody else.

45:40

It is just literally like, okay, so you didn't

45:42

give us money for it, that's why we

45:44

want to be Yes,

45:46

we couldn't make a profit out of it. Which is hilarious

45:49

because I think I've received in the last

45:51

three months alone at least four different letters

45:54

telling me that my data has been

45:56

breached by all these different companies.

45:59

My healthcare told me I have got a breach.

46:01

My insurance told me I gotta breach. I

46:04

want to say, my h

46:06

one of my credit cards got to breach. My bank that

46:09

has my mortgage, you gotta breach. So I'm like, uh,

46:12

some everybody's got my data. According to

46:14

my information, they all have it.

46:16

Yeah, that is just the state of being

46:18

an American. It's like every

46:21

like you wake up, buy a coffee

46:23

and then you had a notification five seconds later. That's like, oh,

46:25

we got we got it, we got you whatever, whatever

46:27

information that you have, we have right.

46:29

And what's so even funnier to me is

46:32

instead of people actually, instead of the government's

46:34

changing or going after these people a hardcore

46:36

I'm sure if like small fish get

46:38

actual jail time or whatever whatnot, I'm

46:41

being Instead all of these agencies

46:44

and corporations are changing their terms of agreement

46:46

to tell me that I can't suit them for their bad they're

46:48

bad breach.

46:50

Yeah, if anybody uses Roku you

46:52

might have seen recently, you had to agree

46:55

to some new terms and conditions, and

46:57

those terms and conditions were like, you can't

46:59

sue if we do something wrong to you.

47:01

If you reach information, you

47:04

can't see us. We're listening all your money if.

47:06

You want to us, if you want to watch this episode

47:08

of Gilmore Girls, you have to give away your

47:11

ability to sue us.

47:13

I mean, like, what's so funny is every

47:16

single individual network

47:18

I stold us to, like Hulu has sened that out and I

47:20

was like, what the hell is this? And

47:22

the other part to all of those like for Roku,

47:25

the only way you can opt out is by sending them

47:27

a physical letter.

47:29

Doesn't that really tell you everything

47:32

about how these companies are showing

47:34

up in this day and age that like, yes, and

47:37

I guess like to close, like that's

47:39

sort of I just think that

47:42

that dynamic, the dynamic that says that American

47:45

tech companies can do whatever they

47:47

want to you, take whatever they want from you, exploits

47:50

you in any way they want make money from you and

47:52

your kids however they see fit if it

47:54

makes them richer, and there's not a damn thing

47:56

you can do about it. I think that that is

47:58

really what we're up against here.

48:00

I think that people are sick of it. And

48:03

I think that this whole song and dance about TikTok

48:06

really highlights that it's not

48:08

just about this one app. It is about an entire

48:10

rotten ecosystem where we are being exploited

48:13

to make somebody else fitcher and I think people

48:15

have really come to see that, like that is what we need

48:17

to be talking about. That is what we need to be really

48:20

deeply rethinking and reassessing.

48:22

Yeah, And I think one of the things I love about

48:25

when you come on Bridget and your

48:27

show is that there are

48:29

so many things that are

48:33

so gatekeeping in the technology

48:35

world, where so many

48:37

things have been invented or crafted

48:40

by women marginalized communities,

48:43

and then are like overtaken, are bought

48:46

by people, and

48:48

it is a way of keeping us off out

48:50

of these spaces.

48:51

Like you can.

48:53

There are just numerous examples of times

48:55

where it's like, well, Okay, I can't use this anymore

48:57

because I'll run into all this hateful

48:59

stuff. I can't use this anymore because

49:02

I'll run into all this hateful stuff. So I it

49:04

is a really important issue in

49:06

terms of intersectionality

49:09

and feminism, and as we're moving

49:11

into elections, oh my

49:13

god, like I'm just so concerned

49:16

about a lot of it.

49:18

But it is like.

49:20

If we again did

49:23

lose TikTok, it would be another space where that's

49:26

gone, can't show up anymore.

49:28

Yeah, And you know,

49:31

women, people of color, trans

49:33

folks, queer folks, we

49:36

are technology, like we are

49:38

what makes technology what it is. We

49:41

have been at the forefront of all

49:43

of this, of computers becoming

49:45

commonplace, of cell phones becoming what

49:47

they are, of smartphones, iPhones, all

49:49

of it. We have been at the forefront

49:52

of that since the very beginning. And

49:54

so I guess I just want to

49:56

challenge anybody listening whether

49:58

you're for a talk band against

50:01

it. Never use TikTok, never would use

50:03

it. Really see this

50:06

domain and these conversations

50:08

and these spaces as yours

50:11

to be part of, yours, to take up space, and yours

50:13

to show up in, yours to care about. I

50:16

think a big part of that sort of gatekeeping

50:18

that you spoke about, Annie is this idea that

50:21

we A don't

50:23

belong in these spaces, which is bs we do, we

50:25

invented them, You're welcome, or B that

50:28

we can't be involved in them

50:30

because we're not smart enough. You don't have the background,

50:32

whatever, whatever. I don't have any kind of hard tech

50:34

degree or anything. You don't need a

50:36

hard tech degree to know when you're being

50:38

taken advantage of by a tech leader. You

50:41

don't need a degree in it to know when a digital

50:43

experience does not feel good,

50:45

It is not validating, and it is exploitative.

50:47

Right. You are the expert of your

50:50

technological experience, and don't let any of

50:52

these tech bro losers tell

50:54

you otherwise. You are

50:56

smarter than Elon Musk, whoever listening

50:58

to this. You are smarter than Musk. I guarantee

51:01

it. I don't know who you are, but I can guarantee

51:03

you Elon Musk is stupider

51:05

than you are. For sure.

51:06

I mean he's bankrupted two companies.

51:08

Have you yet comment companies

51:10

that you bankrupted? Probably none.

51:12

Writing Samantha

51:19

sent me a TikTok recently about

51:21

the study about how male gamers

51:23

who are bad are the ones that are real pissed

51:26

off right, And we talked about this,

51:28

Bridget in our episode we did on

51:30

gate keeping and online gaming, and.

51:33

I was like, yeah, see, you

51:35

guys just suck.

51:37

Most of the trolls who were on

51:39

the gaming network were the ones who were actually really

51:41

bad at the game. Those are the only trolls that you released.

51:44

Yes, I'm good, I'm a

51:46

good gamer.

51:47

Don't come in my space.

51:51

You suck and you're taking it out of Andie stop

51:54

it.

51:56

Yes, well, we always love

51:58

having you, Bridget. Thank you so much. I'm

52:00

sure we'll be following up on this. We'll

52:02

see what happens. But in the meantime,

52:04

where can the good listeners find you?

52:06

You can check out my podcast. There are no girls

52:08

on the Internet. You can find me on Instagram

52:11

at Bridget brandyc on Blue

52:13

Sky, at Bridget Todd, on threads

52:16

at I think my thread's name is the same as

52:18

my Instagram name. I think I have to double check if that's true,

52:20

but you can try that.

52:22

Uh.

52:22

And you can find me on TikTok at Bridget Todd

52:24

makes pods.

52:26

Yes, and you should do that if you haven't

52:28

already. Listeners and check

52:30

out all Bridget has done on this show for

52:32

sure. Yes, thank you for

52:34

being here and listeners. If you would

52:37

like to contact us, you can our email

52:39

at Stephanie moms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

52:41

You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

52:43

or on Instagram and TikTok stuff.

52:45

I've Never told You.

52:46

We have a tea public store, and we have a book you can get wherever

52:49

you get your books. Thanks as always too,

52:51

our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya,

52:53

and our contributor Joey. Thank you and

52:55

thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never told You is

52:57

Fritch and by heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

53:00

you can check out the Heart Radio Apple Podcasts

53:02

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