0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or learn

0:09

the stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of I Heart Gradios How

0:14

Stuff Works. Welcome

0:24

back to the show. My name is Matt

0:26

Noel is on an audio adventure.

0:29

They call me Ben. We are joined as always

0:31

with our super producer Paul Mission Control

0:33

decond. Most importantly, you

0:35

are you. You are here, and that

0:38

makes this stuff they don't

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want you to know. Quick before

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you forget your comments, your

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feedback, your concerns, or your suggestions.

0:48

Go ahead, at any point while this episode

0:51

is playing, pause it and give us

0:53

a call. Speak your conscience, speak

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your truth. Let us know if

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you do not want your words to go on

1:00

the air, that's right. Also speak your untruth

1:03

whatever you wish, give

1:05

us a call. One eight three three s

1:07

T d W y t K

1:10

now. Speaking of truth is an untruth.

1:14

Ben. We've spoken many times on

1:16

this show about the

1:19

the memory that you have or

1:22

an image in your mind is just

1:24

the last time you thought about

1:26

something. Right. That's true, that's

1:29

true. Long time listeners

1:31

will well remember this because

1:33

it's a very handy thing to point

1:35

out whenever we dive into any

1:37

number of topics, and that is

1:40

take for instance, well, we'll talk about memories

1:42

a lot today. Take for instance, uh,

1:44

the memory of the

1:47

first time you ate

1:50

spaghetti. Right, Okay, got it. That's

1:52

a that's a good that's a good example

1:55

because it ties into taste, smell,

1:58

texture, all these other sensory

2:01

things that play a huge role in encoding memory.

2:04

But and it's also probably not the first

2:06

time you ate spaghetti. It is almost

2:08

definitely not. It may not

2:10

even be a real time that you ate spaghetti.

2:13

You're just remembering the sensations

2:15

that you associate with spaghetti.

2:19

So we just may

2:21

have helped you make up a memory

2:23

that never happened. And today's

2:25

show is about memories. Think

2:27

about it that memories are

2:30

humanity's earliest version of

2:32

time travel. You can hear a snatch

2:34

of song, of vivid image pops

2:37

up in your mind, or something as

2:39

small as a taste can send you

2:41

rocketing out of the present into

2:43

the past. In some cases, this

2:46

is amazing and beautiful.

2:48

Think about smelling a cookie,

2:51

a specific kind of cookie. Sure,

2:53

I mean, it really is time traveling.

2:56

A fresh baked cinnamon cookie

2:58

or a Christmas cook icing

3:01

on it. The This

3:03

has been the launching ground

3:06

for so many crucial

3:09

parts of human existence, and a lot of literature

3:11

and art as well remembrance

3:13

of things passed by proost. Essentially,

3:17

it all starts because this guy

3:19

dips a Madeline into I think

3:21

tea or some sort of beverage and he

3:23

tasted it, and he goes, wow, I should

3:25

write hundreds of pages about

3:29

cookie. Correct, yes, yeah, biscuit,

3:32

Oh my gosh, yeah, excuse us. Right, But

3:35

then also think about the way people

3:38

who are suffering from Alzheimer's

3:41

are able to retain memories

3:43

through music, right, Like they may

3:46

have difficulty recalling

3:49

certain people, places or events in their

3:52

lives, but they

3:54

can sing and hit every

3:56

note of uh, you know, a

3:58

song from the sixties that they really loved, Right.

4:01

And then the hope of current

4:03

research and future research is that you can

4:06

you can use that connection in some way

4:08

to make even further connections, right,

4:10

exactly, spot on. And here's

4:13

the thing. This is the reason

4:15

why I really appreciate you using the word

4:18

hope they're Matt's because

4:20

as amazing as memories are, we

4:23

still do not understand everything

4:25

about them. We know, for

4:28

example, that memories can be as as

4:30

you said earlier, surprisingly treacherous,

4:32

and memories of the same event can change

4:34

drastically over time. That's

4:37

why, especially in the

4:39

days before widespread video and audio

4:42

capturing ability existed, that's

4:44

why so many people

4:47

would swear they were at these big historical

4:50

events after the fact. They

4:52

didn't think they were lying. You

4:54

know what I mean. The hundreds of thousands

4:57

of people who claimed they

4:59

were watching, you

5:02

know, like the Hindenburg disaster, well that would

5:04

probably be more than millions or people

5:06

who claimed that they were in or

5:08

around Tombstone at the time

5:10

of the so called wild West,

5:13

right uh, and during the titular shootouts

5:16

and stuff. Those people don't

5:18

feel like they're lying. They genuinely

5:20

think they remember it. And

5:22

now we we find ourselves inexorably

5:25

drawn into the world of philosophy.

5:28

If a person's

5:31

thoughts, their experiences, their

5:33

beliefs are indeed the basis

5:35

for the reality in which they exist, then

5:39

were they there. Yeah, that's

5:41

a that's a tough one. And we're we're

5:43

also going to get into realms here with

5:46

memories of something like trauma,

5:49

and you know, we're talking

5:52

everything we've been talking about right now, are memories that

5:54

we would probably want to retain or

5:56

at least a hone, or to have the best version

5:58

of, or we think we have the best version of. Right,

6:01

But when you're speaking with memories of trauma

6:03

or something like that, is there

6:06

you know, perhaps there is reason, and rightly

6:09

so, for us to want to alter

6:11

those memories or maybe even change

6:13

them. Sure, and some people have

6:15

attempted in the past to do this. Right,

6:18

we know that people can, through accident

6:21

or intention, alter memories

6:24

in various ways. One of

6:26

the big debates

6:28

regarding this would be the

6:30

technique known as hypnotic regression.

6:32

There are people who will swear up

6:35

and down that hypnotic

6:37

regression has been used

6:39

as a psychotherapeutic

6:41

tool to help people remember

6:44

things that they had suppressed

6:46

due to trauma. However, and

6:49

this is not to say that doesn't occur. However,

6:52

the evidence also shows

6:55

us that people can be

6:57

guided, steered up,

7:00

pushed towards remembering

7:03

things that did not happen or remembering

7:06

things that happened in a different

7:08

way in the objective reality.

7:11

Yeah, and there are techniques and in

7:13

psychological ways

7:16

to try and alter your own memories,

7:19

either for good or for bad, or those

7:21

of of other people, but some of the kind

7:23

of self change things or like memory

7:26

palaces, constructing it within your mind

7:28

and then altering the way you view this

7:30

certain time or event. Um,

7:32

there's a lot of fascinating stuff there, It's true,

7:34

and we will we will inevitably hit

7:37

different aspects of this and along the way

7:40

today we will show

7:42

you a little bit about how to

7:44

hack your own memory.

7:46

But this is again for information purposes

7:48

only. Paul, Matt and myself

7:50

are not doctors. Uh

7:53

And even if we were taking

7:56

medical advice from a podcast is

8:00

a terrible idea, uniformly no caveat,

8:03

terrible idea, even basic psychological

8:05

advice. For me,

8:08

at least, I wouldn't even follow

8:10

any of our film recommendations,

8:12

and being honest, at least none of mine. Uh

8:15

So I'll also share in the

8:17

course of this episode a

8:20

very odd

8:23

personal memory. Uh And

8:25

I would love some helper answers about

8:27

this because I still have questions. But

8:30

Okay, we know that we can alter our own

8:32

memories and other people can alter our

8:34

memories. We know that we don't understand

8:36

everything about memories. But what if

8:38

we could take it a step further? What if

8:40

we could actually erase

8:43

a person's memory, a specific

8:45

memory. In other words, what if we can

8:47

take the plot of eternal sunshine

8:49

of the spotless mind from the big

8:52

screen to reality. That

8:54

is what we were exploring today, and to

8:56

do so, we need to first

8:59

understand what exactly

9:01

human memory is. So

9:04

here are the facts. Let's

9:06

begin with a summation of

9:09

this idea of what is a memory by a gentleman

9:11

named Richard C. Mos m o h

9:13

s. He wrote how human

9:16

memory works for our friends over at

9:18

how stuff works dot com. Um

9:20

I was gonna say something that are like we remember thee

9:23

or something like that, like we're no

9:25

longer officially with them, but they will always

9:27

be with us. Memory itself

9:29

just describes the process by which

9:31

our minds store and then recall

9:34

information. And again it's kind of connections,

9:37

both literally and physically and

9:40

metaphorically exactly

9:42

so for most of us, most rights,

9:44

we talk about memory as

9:47

though it is another part

9:49

of our body, a thing we

9:51

possess, like our organs

9:53

or our fingers. But the tricky

9:55

part here is that memory does

9:58

not exist in

10:00

quite the same way. We can't

10:02

touch it. It's more of a concept

10:04

for most people, or at least this

10:07

was the case for the majority

10:10

of human history, and it may

10:12

be tempting for us to think of every

10:14

single memory that we've ever had as

10:18

a single, discrete, specific thing.

10:20

Imagine your first day at

10:22

school, right or one of your first

10:25

days that memory,

10:27

uh probably exists distinct for a lot

10:29

of people. Or remember the first time

10:32

you told a romantic partner you love

10:34

them, and so on. You can put yourself

10:36

back in that moment, just your meat cute,

10:38

even the first time you saw your current

10:41

partner right exactly when

10:43

we when we think of these things on the offset,

10:46

we think of them as a single

10:49

point, a snap in in this

10:52

huge tapestry of experience that

10:54

never ends until we die and maybe continues

10:56

a little bit after that. But

10:59

the problem is that all things

11:01

are interconnected here, and memories

11:03

no different. Your first day of school also

11:06

conjures up the idea of like your

11:08

trapper keeper, your backpack, what you have for lunch

11:10

that sleepless night before the

11:12

first day of school. It's also being colored

11:15

by your subsequent experiences

11:17

with school and how you feel

11:20

about, you know, high school. Let's say you're

11:22

let's say you're in college right now, when you're

11:24

thinking about your first day of school. Those memories

11:26

are hitting because of the way memory functions.

11:29

As we're gonna get into here, it's

11:31

hitting all of these different parts of

11:33

your your memories,

11:36

yeah right, because each of these things

11:38

is really the product of

11:40

some incredibly, incredibly

11:43

complex Rube Goldberg

11:45

esque cognitive processing. Every

11:48

time you, or my

11:50

or anyone recalls a memory,

11:52

our brain is reassembling

11:56

these very different impressions

11:58

from a uh picture,

12:00

a spider web of cells

12:03

scattered all throughout your brain in different

12:05

areas. Each memory that you

12:07

have, and the larger concept

12:10

of what we call memory is a

12:12

group of different systems or webs

12:15

interacting and playing a role in creating

12:18

story and recalling experiences.

12:21

Mose has a great example of this. He

12:23

talks about a pen. He

12:25

says, you know, if you think of an object like a

12:27

pen, your brain achieves the

12:30

object's name, okay, pen, it's

12:32

shape, cylindrical, often right,

12:34

overwhelmingly, it's function, okay,

12:37

writes stuff. Uh,

12:40

the sound it makes when it scratches across

12:42

the page. For a lot of us, we would probably

12:44

be more familiar with a

12:46

click sounds. So each

12:49

part of the memory of what a pen is

12:51

exists in a different part of your brain

12:54

and then all you need is

12:56

to think or hear the word pen

12:59

and boom, it all comes together so

13:02

fast, so quickly. You're not buffering.

13:04

There's no speed there, there's no moment

13:06

where you're totally lost and you're thinking

13:09

that sounds a sounds familiar.

13:11

Um well, for some

13:14

of us, myself included, recalling

13:17

specifics of things is

13:19

becoming more and more difficult again

13:23

as myself as I get older. It's odd.

13:26

It's like the connections there

13:28

aren't quite as uh steadfast

13:30

as they once were. Yeah,

13:33

yeah, exactly. So neurologists

13:37

are still only

13:40

at the beginning of understanding

13:43

how all these different

13:45

little mental processes

13:47

come together to form what we call memory

13:50

and to create what we call remembering.

13:53

We do know a little bit about how

13:55

memories form. When everything

13:57

goes right, yeah exactly.

14:00

Uh So, the first thing that happens is your

14:02

senses are interacting with something

14:04

in the world generally,

14:07

and these things, these sensations

14:09

that your senses are picking up, travel to this

14:12

place in your brain called your hippocampus,

14:14

which then integrates various separate

14:16

sensations into a single cohesive

14:18

experience. Uh So again,

14:21

kind of what we were talking about earlier. Then let's go back to

14:23

that love of your life. And

14:26

in this way, let's say it's your meat cutes. The first

14:29

time you turn a corner, there's the person

14:31

you end up being with for the rest of your life.

14:33

Um. You you

14:36

think about the way they looked, perhaps what they're wearing,

14:38

the way their hair was. You heard their

14:40

voice for the first time, or at least what you're

14:42

imagining now, remembering the way

14:44

their voice sounded. The first time you smelled whatever

14:48

whatever cologne or whatever you

14:51

know, smell they had going on the deodorant.

14:54

Maybe it was just their natural smell. Uh.

14:56

This all gets rolled up into this single

14:58

experience that we can it or to be the

15:00

memory. Right, And according

15:03

to mosh he

15:05

he actually goes into this into the

15:07

actual occurrence in

15:09

your brain. Right. He walks

15:11

through how the hippocampus

15:14

along with the frontal cortex analyzes

15:18

the sensory inputs. This

15:22

this is the process of

15:24

encoding. So if

15:29

essentially think of your hippocampus and the frontal

15:31

cortex as the bouncers at

15:33

the bar of your recollection

15:36

right there at the door. And what

15:38

they will do is they

15:41

and we're totally anthropomorphizing

15:43

them here but but but they will say,

15:45

let's say you're walking by and you smell

15:48

an amazing hero stand

15:51

right and wlcome by a holala guys

15:53

or whatever, and you smell

15:56

this and it's a great it's a great smell,

15:58

or you see something distinct there,

16:00

or someone's making

16:02

schwarma or whatever, and your

16:04

this goes to your brain. These sensory inputs,

16:06

the visual input of watching that scene, uh,

16:09

the olfactory input of smelling

16:11

that food, and then your hippocampus,

16:14

your frontal cortex are the

16:16

They're the entities that say this

16:19

is or is not important, This does or does

16:21

not make the pass. As

16:24

we indicated earlier, if they

16:26

make it through, if your long term memory,

16:29

just your even your short term, if

16:31

they make it through and become a short term

16:33

memory. They exist in a small chunk for no

16:35

more than seconds for most

16:37

people, and then someone can

16:39

ask you like, hey, what was happening

16:41

there, you know, seconds ago, and I'll be like, oh,

16:44

there was this guy's making schwarma. It was great, you

16:46

know, not life changing, but yeah you want some

16:48

schwarma. That's how that will work. But

16:51

uh, let's let's step back

16:53

for a second. So as

16:56

these bits of information get

16:58

collected in short term memory. They're stored

17:00

in different parts of the brain. We

17:03

still don't know how

17:06

our brains identify all

17:08

these things and know what to match to which

17:11

event. Right, so

17:13

we know that we do know the physiological

17:16

or i should say, the neurochemical process.

17:18

Here. We all have nerve cells

17:20

in our brains. They connected things called

17:22

synapsis, right. A synapse is a

17:24

connection there, and these

17:27

cells fire electrical pulses

17:30

across the space between

17:32

your nerves. And when they fire

17:34

these electrical pulses, it triggers

17:36

the release of these neurotransmitters.

17:39

Think of them like chemical corriers.

17:41

The neurotransmitters spread

17:44

the information they carry across the

17:46

spaces between the cells.

17:49

Each single brain cell can

17:51

form thousands and thousands of

17:53

these links, creating all

17:56

these other connections, these webs

17:59

that we mentioned earlier. The typical brain

18:01

has about typical human brain I should say, has

18:03

about a hundred trillion synapsis.

18:05

But these connections are not set in stone.

18:08

They constantly change as your

18:10

brain cells organize themselves

18:12

into different groups to process information

18:15

in different ways. And

18:17

here's where long term comes in. Every

18:20

time that your brain

18:22

cells send these messages to one

18:24

another, the synaptic connection between

18:27

them grows stronger. We can't

18:29

emphasize this enough. This is real mind

18:31

over matter. Your thought

18:34

processes, the things

18:36

that you choose to think about with

18:38

no ostensible physical action of your

18:41

own, these things will

18:43

change the physical composition

18:46

of your brain. I believe we may have mentioned it

18:48

on previous episodes, but we

18:50

can see this effect over

18:52

time, and it becomes quite profound.

18:55

London taxi drivers, right,

18:58

the area of the rain associated

19:01

with spatial reasoning in taxi

19:03

drivers who have been driving for decades is

19:05

physically noticeably significantly

19:08

larger than that of the

19:10

ordinary driver. Uh. Same thing

19:13

with the parts of the brain responsible

19:15

for empathy in Buddhist

19:18

Buddhist monks who have meditated for quite

19:20

a while, as well as professional magic. The gathering

19:23

players have been playing for long enough time,

19:25

Like it's crazy how many cards they have to

19:27

remember and all the different actions.

19:29

I mean, you've done some real Twilight Zone stuff. I'm gonna

19:32

be honest with you. We we also know

19:34

that filtering occurs during

19:36

this encoding process. Most people

19:38

don't remember most things, right, but

19:40

we still don't know exactly

19:44

how this works. We're going

19:46

to pause just for a second. Let's

19:48

all try to remember what what

19:50

we examined here, and then we'll be back

19:53

to explore short and long term memory after

19:55

a word from our sponsor, and

20:03

we're back now. As we were discussing

20:06

before, not all memories are created

20:08

equally, and not all of our senses

20:10

are stored in the same way, because

20:13

really, if you think about how much

20:15

stuff we interact with every day, how

20:17

many things we see and smell and touch, if

20:19

we kept all of that, it would be

20:22

it would be nearly impossible to sort through,

20:24

even with the processing power of our brains.

20:27

So a lot of experts actually believe

20:30

that memory exists in three stages.

20:32

A lot of times you'll hear short term versus

20:34

long term memory, So let's let's

20:37

jump in here. The first type is

20:39

the immediate sensory memory. That's

20:41

just what is occurring right now, the way this table

20:44

feels when I touch it. Then their short term

20:46

memory, which is again about that twenty

20:48

seconds or a little bit, you know, give or take

20:51

a certain period of time, I remember

20:53

how that table felt when I touched it. And

20:56

then finally long term memory,

20:58

and then that is just me when I'm walking

21:00

around at the house thinking about what

21:02

that table felt like. When I touched it, right, or

21:05

I'm remembering it for the next time. So each

21:07

memory has to successfully pass the

21:09

filtration to get to the next tier

21:11

to go from sensory to short term to

21:14

long term, and long term memory

21:17

can store as

21:19

far as we can tell an unlimited amount

21:21

of data for an infinite amount

21:23

of time. We but yes, I'm

21:26

sorry, an indefinite amount of time. There's

21:28

not a hard limit on it the way short term

21:30

memory is. We should also make a

21:33

slight detour here to say yes,

21:35

so called total recall memory adetic

21:38

memory does exist, but it

21:40

is very very rare. That's

21:42

the ability to recall

21:45

something in near totality after

21:48

having only seen it once briefly.

21:51

And there are people who

21:53

really can do this. There are people

21:56

who have the ability to

21:58

look at a photograph and then draw it really

22:03

accurately from memory. There

22:05

are people who can tell you what

22:07

they have for breakfast on

22:10

you know, June

22:13

nine, and

22:15

they can tell you what time it was when

22:17

they add breakfast. You know. Yeah, but like you said,

22:20

extremely rare, extremely

22:22

extremely rare. Uh for

22:24

for me, I couldn't tell you what I ate for

22:26

breakfast yesterday? Right? And

22:29

true photographic memory as far

22:31

as we know, like the

22:34

the actual facts, true photographic

22:37

memory has not been

22:40

universally proven. There

22:42

are there are compelling things. Right. But then

22:44

this ties into the idea of the

22:47

so called savant syndrome. Right, So

22:49

that's a story for another day. But the

22:52

rules we are describing for memory

22:54

applied to easily, if

22:57

not more, of the human population. Matt,

23:01

You're absolutely right. Long term memory

23:03

is something that you have to earn. If

23:05

you're a little lingering scent

23:08

of jasmine or lavender, you

23:10

start off in sensory memory and

23:12

you have to you have to crew up with

23:15

other sensory with other

23:17

sensations. Right two, progress

23:20

through that hierarchy and hit the you

23:22

know, hit the big win, the immortality

23:25

of a long term memory. Most

23:28

people have a pretty good

23:30

memory. So the brutal truth of

23:32

this is any of your friends,

23:34

any of our friends, who say

23:37

I'm terrible with names, or I've

23:39

just said I've got such a terrible memory. The

23:42

fact of the matter is, I'm not going to say they're lying to

23:44

you, but they're not really trying

23:46

to encode memories.

23:49

Most people are pretty

23:51

good at this sort of stuff. Various

23:54

factors affect our memory at different

23:56

junctures, and like a

23:58

lot of other physical faculty tease, memory

24:01

does seem to degrade with age, but

24:03

we all typically start out with a

24:05

with a pretty sharp ability to recall

24:08

things. If one think that's interesting

24:10

about how how

24:12

memory can be affected. Every time this

24:15

great computer called your brain retrieves,

24:17

it goes into I'm

24:20

thinking about the best way to put this. Okay, So

24:23

we have all probably heard

24:25

the idea of set

24:28

and setting or seen in setting for people

24:30

who do hallucinogens. Right, if

24:33

you are already feeling anxious

24:36

and you ingested a hallucinogenic substance

24:39

in a place that is a very stressful

24:41

environment, you know, or like sirens randomly

24:43

go off and there are four hundred strangers

24:46

you don't know, right, and they all

24:48

want to get in line for the bathroom

24:51

essentially every outdoor concert ever, whatever,

24:54

then you're going to have a weird time. Memory

24:57

is also vulnerable to the

25:00

you present physical surroundings

25:03

that you are in when

25:05

you generate a memory. So if

25:08

you are having a if

25:11

you are having a great time, you're super relaxed.

25:13

Let's picture it. Um, You're on a

25:16

hot tub and the shore of

25:19

a beautiful island. It's a nice

25:21

cool ocean breeze, the sun's

25:23

setting, you're hanging

25:25

with people you like or whatever, you're at

25:28

peace, get a cold, frosty beverage,

25:30

sitting on the rim of the hot tub, whatever, and

25:33

you remember something that

25:36

was sad or painful

25:38

or hurtful. The fact

25:41

that you are in a nice, relaxed,

25:44

secure, comfortable setting when you recall

25:46

this is going to study

25:49

show or studies seem to indicate

25:52

strongly it's going to help

25:55

mitigate the psychic

25:57

trauma of that earlier thing.

26:00

Uh, the stuff that surrounds us in the

26:02

present affects the way we see our past.

26:05

Yeah, no, that I can totally

26:07

see that. I mean that's why if you're

26:10

going to see a therapist or something, it is

26:12

in that type of setence, setting that is meant

26:14

to be serene right as you're working

26:16

through some memories that are perhaps

26:18

painful. It makes a lot of sense now,

26:21

I'm I'm thinking all therapists should just have hot

26:23

tubs. Yeah, frosty

26:25

beverages. I mean, you've been saying that for years. Sunset

26:28

and good to go only sunset

26:32

night therapy. That sounds like a

26:34

strange show. Maybe on

26:37

cinemat late night HBO

26:39

or something like that. So

26:42

so these long term memories differ

26:44

from our short term memories. Are short term memories

26:47

are actually going to be They're

26:49

going to have a higher chance of being accurate,

26:52

just because our long term memories

26:54

are based on the repetitive

26:57

intrusion of our present scene

26:59

while we're remembering something. Right,

27:02

So they get a little deluded. We

27:04

played that game of telephone. But

27:07

there we have it as a very very

27:09

brief look at what human memory is

27:12

and how it works so far as

27:14

we know. Now, why

27:16

are we talking about this because

27:18

four hundreds of years people have been

27:21

trying to alter memory in one

27:23

way or another, whether through the

27:25

propagation of differing historical

27:27

narratives a k a. Burn all the books,

27:30

uh, censorship, let's

27:32

get rid of anything in that

27:34

picture at tianamen square right, hypnosis,

27:37

hypnotic regression, brainwashing

27:40

like that old singing in Star Trek the Next

27:42

Generation where someone is torturing

27:44

Picard and telling them to, you

27:47

know, see a different number of lights yeah,

27:49

or a pledge of allegiance that you have to say every day

27:51

when you're at school, right, which I bet

27:54

is encoded in your memory too, And also

27:56

with a little bit of cadence, right, Like,

27:58

like, you can probably site the entire

28:01

alphabet in your native language,

28:03

but if you have a native language

28:05

that teaches children the alphabet in the form

28:07

of a song, it's kind

28:10

of it's really difficult to do it

28:12

backwards, right. I

28:14

still can't because we don't know all you

28:16

know, we don't know all the letters

28:18

independently we know the song. It's

28:21

like, oh, which numbers. H I'll get

28:24

to it, just give me a second. But

28:28

yeah, So we've we've had this

28:30

history of people attempting

28:33

to tweak modify

28:36

revised memory, and we've had

28:38

mixed results. In fact,

28:40

for most of human history, the idea of

28:42

purposely, surgically and precisely

28:45

deleting a memory seemed relegated

28:47

to the world of science fiction. But

28:50

what if we could turn it into

28:53

science fact. Here's

28:55

where it gets crazy. Man.

28:58

We're all ready delete memories, and

29:02

at least we figured out how to do it. Right.

29:04

That doesn't mean we're we're we're

29:06

doing it effectively necessarily,

29:08

but some people have been figuring out the

29:11

means and um. There are multiple

29:14

studies, current and and very

29:16

recent studies that confirm that it

29:18

is indeed possible to remove

29:21

a specific memory or memories

29:23

from an individual's brain.

29:26

That sounds crazy, That sounds

29:28

like eternal sunshine. But it's

29:30

real, and it is crazy. Being real

29:32

doesn't make it not crazy.

29:34

I agree with

29:36

you. They're like, Okay, So there's a twenty

29:38

seventeen study from the Columbia University

29:41

Medical Center on snails.

29:44

Okay, all right, And so they found that

29:46

different types of memories stored in the

29:48

same neuron of marine

29:51

snails can be selectively erased.

29:53

Here's the important part without

29:55

removing the other memory.

29:59

So they can just snip the one out.

30:02

Here's how they did it, and those as

30:04

reported by Science Daily. They

30:07

stimulated two sensory neurons

30:09

connected to a single motor

30:11

neuron of the marine snail. One

30:14

neuron one sensory neuron was stimulated

30:17

to induce an associative memory,

30:20

something that brings up other experiences.

30:22

Another was stimulated

30:25

to induce a non associative

30:27

memory. And they found that

30:30

they could measure the strength of each

30:32

connection. And by measuring the

30:34

strength of each of these snaptic connections,

30:37

they could find the increase in

30:39

the strength of each connection produced

30:42

by a different stimuli was maintained

30:44

by a different form

30:46

of a protein called protein

30:49

kinase m p k M,

30:52

and they have they have a couple.

30:54

There are two versions of this right A

30:57

side and B side associative

30:59

memory non associative. And they found

31:02

that if they blocked the

31:04

specific type of p k

31:06

M molecule involved, they

31:09

could block and

31:11

erase the memory

31:13

that needed that that needed that

31:16

enzyme in order to hit the

31:18

conscious mind. So it's

31:20

all just chemistry. See this to me,

31:23

just the fact that it's being that

31:26

snails are our subjects to try

31:29

and figure out if a memory

31:31

can be you know, changed or deleted.

31:33

It definitely brings up questions for me,

31:36

more philosophical questions about the snail.

31:38

But we do know neurologically, those

31:40

neurons, those the way they're uh,

31:44

at least if you think about a mechanically how it's functioning,

31:47

it's very similar to a humans neurons.

31:49

There's a you know, there's a

31:51

thing that that remembers a connection

31:55

that then goes to a motor neuron which

31:57

then will cause you to actually do something

31:59

to pasically change make a physical

32:02

change in your body. And then these two

32:04

other pieces that they're messing with are just

32:06

the thing that actually holds the connection to the memory.

32:09

So yeah, so they they found

32:12

that not only

32:14

could you block that recollection, but

32:17

you could erase it by

32:20

blocking not PKM

32:22

itself, but you could you could erase

32:24

the memory by blocking other molecules

32:27

that helped produce PKM

32:30

the enzyme or protect

32:32

it from breaking down, So

32:35

you can you They not

32:37

only found the switch, they found

32:39

the stuff that removes

32:41

or installs the switch. Whoa

32:44

again justin snails, because you have to start

32:47

small so you don't freak people out right,

32:49

Yeah, I guess so, I mean, I get

32:51

it. The good thing here is that

32:53

this isn't some kind of diabolical

32:56

There's no diabolical reason behind wanting

32:58

to figure out this is, or

33:01

at least that's not stated UM.

33:03

According to you know, our

33:05

understanding is that these researchers

33:07

are doing this study to try and find some way

33:09

to remove non associative memories

33:12

that end up triggering PTSD in people,

33:14

also any kind of anxiety like either in

33:16

general or otherwise within

33:19

humans. I very much like

33:21

this. I think many of us listening

33:23

would would could do with this.

33:25

We would appreciate this, UM.

33:28

But again, the researchers also

33:30

are very very careful, at

33:33

least according to the sources

33:35

that we're using. They're very

33:37

careful to say that this is

33:39

kind of a proof of concept, right,

33:42

a proof of principle, if you will,

33:44

And it's not absolute proof

33:46

that we can do this within humans, right,

33:49

We're more showing the relationship

33:51

to cause an effect between these

33:53

molecules. But there are other studies.

33:56

In a study by researchers at the University

33:59

of California from back in they

34:02

found that light can be used to erase

34:04

specific memories from mice using

34:07

a technique called optogenetics.

34:10

Yeah, and this is where it's feeling closer

34:12

and closer to the eternal sunshine stuff.

34:14

Actually using a physical

34:17

medium to change memories, right,

34:19

And it's not as cool as the memory

34:22

erasing flashlight men in black. Not

34:24

yet, not yet, not yet. So the

34:27

scientists in this study used

34:29

genetically modified mice as

34:32

their experiment. In their control groups. Uh,

34:34

the genetically modified mice had

34:37

nerve cells that would literally glow

34:39

green and express a protein

34:42

allowing the cells to be switched

34:44

off by light. Light

34:47

being the mechanism, and so this

34:49

allowed the scientists to trace

34:52

the path of more

34:55

or less a memory from nerve

34:57

cells in the cortex and hippocampus, and

34:59

they could see which cells were activated

35:01

in learning something new. They could also

35:04

see which cells turned on when

35:06

the mouse was remembering something, and

35:08

then they could use a fiber optic cable

35:11

to switch those cells off

35:13

using light. Yeah,

35:16

whoa, it sounds so sci fi,

35:18

but this is how they summarize it. Quote.

35:20

They trained the mice by placing them in a

35:22

cage where they got a mild electrical

35:25

shock. Now, normally mice placed

35:27

in a new environment will nose around

35:29

and explore, but when placed

35:31

in a cage where they have previously

35:33

received a shock, they freeze

35:36

in place because it's a fear

35:38

response. Right. Yeah,

35:41

you can see. You can see why

35:43

it would be illegal to do this with human

35:45

subjects. Because

35:48

they first showed that they could label the cells

35:51

involved in learning and and later

35:53

in recollection. Then they were

35:55

able to switch those cells off.

35:58

So and that, and then at the mice

36:00

back in the place where they got shocked,

36:03

and the mice had no idea because they

36:05

they their memory had been a race, so they

36:07

just knows around like they would if it was just another

36:09

cage. And then they

36:11

did their homework, you know, Methodologically

36:14

speaking, they kept it hygienic because

36:16

they were able to show that turning off

36:18

different cells didn't

36:20

mess with the memory at all. Right,

36:23

So so they did

36:25

find they were able to hunt down

36:28

the physical manifestation

36:30

of a memory, which is mind

36:33

blowing. But this

36:35

is just the beginning. We've talked

36:38

about erasing memories

36:40

in animals, but what about

36:42

creating memories? What about

36:45

the memories of human beings

36:47

like you listening along or Matt

36:50

or Paul or so on. Will

36:52

explore that after a word

36:54

from our sponsors, and

37:03

we're back. Now this is where

37:05

we get into the real,

37:08

possibly creepy territory,

37:10

because we're talking about making

37:13

memories that aren't real, or

37:15

at least aren't exactly the

37:17

same as they could be altered too.

37:21

Because sciences, it turns out, uh,

37:24

they're learning that some of the same processes

37:27

that we used or that we can manipulate

37:29

to erase memories can also

37:31

be used to insert new

37:34

recollections that we haven't

37:36

actually ever collected. It

37:38

won't be a recollection, it will be a

37:40

new collection. Let's be a

37:42

collection. Yeah, this is interesting. This

37:45

came out just a few days

37:47

ago, I think August

37:49

seven, in

37:51

the magazine Nature. Scientists published

37:54

a report proving

37:56

that they have been able to create new memories

37:59

by reverse engineering natural

38:01

existing memories. And this

38:04

is even weirder than it sounds. Okay,

38:07

So what they did is

38:10

they took they took one brain, one

38:13

animal brain, and they

38:17

got a natural memory from it, right,

38:20

something that it would want to avoid,

38:23

because as you can see, they're they're teaching

38:26

on very primal levels pain response

38:28

usually. And then after

38:30

they had mapped out the brain circuits,

38:32

involved the switches, the patterns, they had

38:34

traced the web essentially for this specific

38:37

memory, they quote unquote

38:39

trained another animal by

38:42

stimulating the brain cells

38:44

of that animal in the pattern of that

38:46

first memory. This created

38:49

an artificial memory that behaved

38:51

in the exact same way as

38:53

the naturally occurring one,

38:56

the same recollection pattern,

38:59

the same ret mention, everything. So

39:01

the quote from Nature reads this

39:03

way. And these were mice, I should

39:06

say. In the recent study, the natural

39:08

memory was formed by training mice to associate

39:10

a specific odor, in this case cherry

39:12

blossoms with a foot shock, which

39:15

they learned to avoid by passing down a

39:17

rectangular test chamber to another

39:20

end that was infused with a different odor,

39:22

caraway. The caraway scent came

39:25

from a chemical called carbone, while

39:27

the cherry blossom scent came from another

39:29

chemical, a CD phino. The

39:32

researchers found that this cherry

39:34

blossom scented chemical activated

39:37

a specific type of receptor on

39:39

a discrete type of olfactory

39:42

sensory nerve cell. Again,

39:44

just like Proust, smell

39:46

is a primary um

39:49

primary medium for the

39:52

encoding of memory. If you

39:54

think about it from an evolutionary perspective, it makes

39:56

total sense, as most

39:58

animals over time used the scent,

40:00

the sense of scent to to find

40:03

their way, the sense of sense to their

40:07

mate, to know like everything, and

40:09

that still happens now, right, So

40:13

like that earlier study, these

40:16

scientists used optogenetics

40:18

to activate those old factory

40:20

nerve cells. And what they

40:23

found, of course, this is surgically

40:25

implanted fiber optic cable

40:28

in in their heads. It's not like they're waving

40:30

a flashlight up. The whole thing sounds barbaric

40:34

when you think about all the shocking and the

40:36

inserted cables, but let's continue. But it's for

40:38

science, that's right. So,

40:40

so what they found

40:44

is that they could replicate this memory

40:46

pattern in another mouse and

40:49

that mouse would behave as though

40:51

it had personally experienced this

40:54

earlier foot shock just from the scent,

40:56

just from the scent would help trigger

40:58

the memory. Uh

41:01

So they have a little bit of insurance

41:03

here because it

41:05

would you know it, technically,

41:08

theoretically, it would be possible just

41:10

to use that experience of pain

41:13

of shock to make a transferable

41:16

memory, but doubling down by activating

41:18

olfactory sensations. You

41:21

know, that's pretty much what they're studying there.

41:24

That implies a

41:26

lot of stuff, potentially

41:29

not all of it good. I know,

41:31

I know, we're supposed to be very positive

41:33

and extol the benefits

41:36

that this could pose for people suffering

41:39

from very real, very torturous

41:42

conditions like PTSD or generalized

41:44

anxiety. But

41:46

that's not where It's not like fire

41:48

can fire can warm you,

41:51

it can also burn down your house. Technology

41:54

has never come with any

41:56

sort of inherent ethical

41:58

mandate. I U, I

42:00

don't know. You know why I'm I'm

42:03

so boxing a little bit about this matter is

42:05

because, of course DARPA has entered the game.

42:07

Of course, of course they were

42:09

in this game before they even announced it.

42:12

I'm telling you, um, really

42:15

that shouldn't surprise any of us. The DARPA was

42:17

like raising their hand going will we'd

42:19

like to be involved because

42:22

researchers associated with DARPA

42:25

created this thing. It's a prosthetic

42:27

to allow for better memory.

42:29

Recall, Yeah, the march

42:32

towards super soldierdom continues.

42:35

This is incredible. They're describing

42:37

it as a prosthetic and in the trial

42:40

they conducted, they showed a thirty

42:42

five pc improvement in both short and

42:44

long term retention of

42:47

visual information. Couple

42:49

this with the drugs that mean

42:51

people don't have to sleep. Couple

42:54

this with you know, the genetic

42:56

research going going into

42:58

the idea of giving people,

43:01

you know, unbreakable bones, incredible

43:05

b m I naturally that kind of stuff

43:09

we're we're building, uh, potentially

43:12

super people. Of course, you know,

43:14

I'm being a little bit alarmist because all

43:16

of these things are kind of siloed, like

43:19

the I think most of the

43:21

people who are working with DARPA money

43:23

are just trying to prove their

43:25

one very specific thing. Yeah,

43:27

but once you vulture on that stuff, the

43:31

future looks bright for very few.

43:34

Uh So we also know, since

43:37

we're speaking about humans, we know tal

43:40

as old as times, certain drugs can

43:42

and can impair or hinder

43:45

memory. Right, if someone drinks

43:47

too much, they may not remember

43:50

the entirety of what they did while

43:52

they were drinking. If someone is

43:54

using uh, certain narcotics

43:57

or something that will also impair their memory,

44:00

or some herbal supplements, yes,

44:03

some herbal supplements cough cough coff,

44:06

but what about how far does that

44:08

go? Are there any drugs that are specifically

44:10

designed to erase entire

44:13

experiences while And

44:15

this is the tricky part, This is the part

44:17

that herbal substances cough

44:20

cough, narcotics and alcohol don't

44:22

do. When they remove

44:24

memories, they remove like entire

44:26

periods of memories. What if there was a

44:28

way to reach

44:31

into the Jenga Tower of

44:34

human memory and steal

44:36

entire floors without toppling the tower.

44:39

That would be getting us into

44:41

fully eternal sunshine territory,

44:44

right, like

44:47

removing a single person from

44:49

your memory inside

44:51

the Jenga tower that is your

44:53

memories, right, uh

44:56

yeah, yeah,

44:59

a real life eternal

45:01

sunshine. And we have another

45:04

report here, this time it's from Scientific

45:07

American and quote

45:09

neuroscientists at McGill University

45:11

and collaborators have just reported

45:13

in Molecular Pain, of which

45:15

is a scientific

45:17

journal not a really great

45:20

name for like an early two thousand tip up.

45:23

It certainly sounds like both, but

45:25

they've stated that the chemical with

45:27

the evocative acronym ZIP

45:30

ZILP. That's z I P, not ZIP recruiter,

45:32

Nope, but do use them

45:35

if you need to hire ZIP can selectively

45:37

wipe out the nervous system's memory

45:40

of the chronic aches and pains that plague

45:43

about one in four North Americans,

45:45

apparently leaving other memories intact.

45:49

Now, that's incredible, removing

45:51

the memory of chronic pain. It

45:56

makes you wonder because,

45:59

again I've said this before, my back hurts.

46:01

It always hurts if

46:04

I if I don't remember that it hurts.

46:06

Is that what we're talking about here? It'll just

46:08

be a brand new day of pain.

46:12

Like oh that that does hurt. That's weird.

46:15

It will be your first time every

46:17

every time. That's what I've always wanted,

46:20

as you've always wanted, brand new back pain.

46:22

I'm tired of the same old back pain. Yeah.

46:24

ZIP is the street name for

46:27

something called zeta inhibitory

46:29

peptide. This inhibits

46:32

the memory preserving enzymes.

46:35

Who mentioned before, p k M's right,

46:37

So this is p k M Zeta. We

46:40

don't know enough to determine exactly

46:42

where this stuff should be applied. We

46:45

do know that it definitely works.

46:48

So this puts us a very strange,

46:51

very strange crossroads. Here's

46:54

what would happen if you applied

46:57

it now. It would

46:59

have to be in je did directly into your spinal

47:01

cord. Is done over the counter tablet

47:03

and probably never will be. Uh.

47:06

And if someone

47:08

did that today, injected some

47:10

of this zip up into

47:12

your spine, we don't

47:14

know. We know it would erase some stuff. We

47:17

just don't know what you

47:19

might say? Oh, okay, eternal

47:22

sunshine style. I

47:24

no longer have to remember this

47:26

breakup that has riddled my life with regrets

47:29

which you know not to get too personal. I'm

47:31

sure everybody has

47:33

personally experienced that or know someone who

47:36

has. You can see why you would want that to go away.

47:38

But you're rolling the dice in a game

47:41

that no one knows the rules for you.

47:43

Might you might remove that break up.

47:45

Sure, you might also remove the memories

47:48

of your parents and your entire

47:50

family along with it. You'd begin

47:52

mistaking your wife for a hat. Yes,

47:55

yes, exactly. And

47:58

I think I mentioned earlier the

48:00

idea of talking about an inexplicable

48:03

memory. I want to share this and see if we all

48:05

have things like this, um,

48:08

and you know, you might surprise

48:11

yourself when you find that

48:13

that you have a similar thing. I

48:16

have memories

48:19

that I know logically

48:21

could not have well,

48:24

I don't understand how they would have occurred.

48:26

So one of my earliest memories is

48:28

being on the second floor

48:31

of a church window

48:34

or something like that, looking down,

48:37

uh, and there's very bright green grass.

48:40

There is a police car

48:42

with the sirens on, parked on the grass,

48:45

and there is a white bed by

48:48

the window with handcuffs

48:50

and like blood on the

48:52

bedsheets. HAVE had this memory

48:54

ever since I was a kid, So holy,

48:58

right, so it's got to be it's surely

49:00

the logic lance would be, this is something I

49:03

saw on television right when I was a wee tyke, maybe

49:05

before words something like that. Maybe,

49:08

But I think we all have those sensations

49:11

or those those sort of tableaus,

49:13

right that we we think like this is a very vivid

49:15

image for me, but I don't know where

49:17

it's where it's from. I have one like that,

49:20

similarly, in a church with a

49:22

tornado warning of some sort

49:24

or a sirens going off and

49:26

having to duck down and hide

49:29

in a darkened room while the

49:31

sounds of a train go by.

49:34

But when I've recalled this to my mother,

49:36

because it's such a vivid memory of mine, sure

49:38

she doesn't. She's not exactly

49:41

sure where when

49:43

that would have occurred, or which church or

49:45

anything like that. And it's kind of similar

49:47

in the way that I don't know if it actually

49:50

happened. Did we get mindwiped? I

49:53

don't know. That's the problem with this. Let us

49:55

know about your your strange memories

49:57

too, because for the

49:59

first time in human history, at least that we

50:01

can recall, we are on the verge

50:03

of artificially controlling the

50:06

individual perception of

50:08

the past. We have been making

50:10

attempts as a species to control the

50:12

collective perception of the

50:14

past, but now we can

50:16

open up the hood of every individual

50:18

mind and start to tinker with it. We're close

50:21

to doing that. And here's where the conversation gets

50:23

sticky, because, yes, as you said,

50:25

Matt, the obvious

50:27

hope is this can be used to remove

50:29

painful traumatic experiences that trigger

50:31

anxiety panic PTSD, but

50:34

also the same technology

50:37

could possibly be used to non consensually

50:40

remove memories. That's

50:42

the m I style rights right

50:45

or whatever. Happened to us at that church. That's

50:47

crazy. I had no idea that you had a similar

50:49

memory. But like, what, what are some examples

50:52

beyond PTSD about how this stuff

50:55

could be used? Well, imagine that you're

50:57

living in a country with some kind of author

51:00

terryan rule. Right, maybe you don't

51:02

agree with those people who are running the

51:04

country, so you'd be considered a dissident um.

51:07

Now imagine that within this country,

51:09

you end up being detained and

51:11

you don't really recall exactly what happens.

51:14

But let's say you black out for one reason or

51:16

another and you wake up hours later, and

51:18

you can't remember all

51:20

of the things that your government, this authoritarian

51:24

regime doesn't want you to remember.

51:27

You remember your family, remember

51:29

that you have a job that you're going to every

51:31

day. But for some reason, you just feel

51:34

calm, like everything's okay. Or

51:36

maybe you even have a different memory

51:39

implanted. Uh, and your memory

51:41

is about how good it

51:43

felt to you know, say

51:45

the pledge, which

51:48

sounds like sci fi territory, but you know,

51:50

it wasn't so long ago that the idea of

51:53

a racing memories sounded like sci

51:55

fi. And then imagine that process

51:57

occurring in mass right,

52:00

not just one person. Yeah,

52:02

and you know, here's another one. Imagine

52:04

this is a little bit less less sinister,

52:07

maybe because this this could be legal at

52:09

some point. Imagine you work

52:11

with an organization, whether

52:14

state or private, that requires

52:16

you to handle proprietary information,

52:20

uh sensitive documents,

52:23

top secret, compartmentalized, your eyes

52:25

only stuff, and then

52:28

part of your contract says that when you retire,

52:30

you leave your job, that set

52:33

of memories gets wiped.

52:36

Dude, Imagine if it's just a short

52:38

term contractor position with something

52:41

like groom Lake or

52:44

where you only work for six months and then you get wiped,

52:46

and then you wake up with you know, thousands,

52:49

hundreds of thousands of dollars in your bank

52:51

account and a very

52:53

vague letter thanking you,

52:56

a warning you from some front

52:58

company. You'd certainly prevent the next babbos

53:00

are Yeah, quite possibly.

53:03

And also again to be completely

53:05

fair, this is this is spitballing

53:07

and speculation. We there,

53:11

Yeah, but again I

53:13

don't think any of these are that much

53:15

of a stretch. Yeah, but there's just so much

53:17

more that would have to happen with

53:20

the science of it. Very true, We're

53:22

still unless the technology already existed,

53:24

as some of them successfully suppressed. We're

53:27

still very far away from

53:29

these things, but now they are possible,

53:32

if not plausible. Yeah, I mean it's very

53:34

much a black mirror style, like we can kind

53:36

of see this occurring, or these would be how it

53:38

would These are a lot of the things we can imagine

53:41

it being used for. And here's another one. This

53:44

one I think will be exciting to some of the entrepreneurs

53:47

in our audience today. Imagine a world

53:49

where you can pay to

53:52

recreationally experience

53:55

the memories of other people.

53:58

M So, let's say it's other

54:00

thing Disney gets involved in. They

54:02

map out the memories of

54:06

historic moments as

54:08

as experienced by firsthand witnesses.

54:11

They get like someone who's landed

54:13

on the moon, the doctor Rendezvous

54:15

memories. Yeah, they get doctor buzz Rendezvous

54:18

memory of landing on the moon. They

54:20

map it out, and now you can

54:22

pay whomever

54:25

for them to implant that memory in your

54:27

head so that you get the first

54:29

hand experience of doing that. You

54:31

can also live vicariously and

54:34

do you know, philosophically,

54:36

it's it's almost the same as doing it yourself,

54:39

right to have the first hand memory, so

54:41

you could participate in crimes

54:44

that you are not legally culpable for it

54:46

because they already happened. That's what it

54:48

feels like to a bank, That's what yeah,

54:50

exactly, that's what it feels like to rob a bank

54:52

or something terrible

54:54

things for other stuff too,

54:57

right, And then if the memory becomes inconvenient,

55:00

just have it removed. And given that we

55:02

would be talking about a private entity selling

55:04

this stuff, I

55:06

bet there would be a lot of money spent on

55:08

figuring out how to make the memory implant

55:10

temporary, because you

55:12

want to sell a service now, right, not a

55:15

product, so it would eventually degrade.

55:17

But then also to end on a positive

55:20

note, is one I am personally excited

55:22

about. Imagine the potential for learning.

55:25

One day we might be able to encode

55:28

knowledge sets. Right. That's

55:31

that's full on matrix stuff right there, exactly.

55:34

It's not that far from neo. Right.

55:36

You can wake up being able to play a piano,

55:38

speak a new language, kung

55:41

fu. Maybe you're in a plane

55:43

that's going down and you're you're

55:46

talking to the air traffic control

55:48

and they say, okay, break open

55:50

the glass door by the by

55:53

the cockpit hallway and inject

55:55

yourself with this thing. And

55:58

then you know, just lay out to play because

56:00

now you know how to land the plane. Uh,

56:03

you know, we're we're very far away from that and

56:05

we don't know whether we'll ever

56:07

reach that level of sophistication.

56:10

But the truth is this is potentially an

56:13

enormous tool for

56:16

people who have stuff they don't want you to know

56:19

that they may be able to use it sooner than

56:21

you think. Wow, it's really intense

56:23

and just too for my

56:26

own uh for my

56:28

own happiness. Here, I can imagine

56:30

if you combined a bit of a

56:33

controversial technique, which would be hypnotic

56:35

regression, but maybe even take

56:37

regression out. If you combined some

56:40

kind of therapeutic

56:42

counseling session with some

56:45

of these peptides, with some of the

56:47

drugs and the enzymes that we're talking about with

56:49

ZIP and these things, and to affect

56:52

p k M. Imagine if you

56:54

were given a dose of something that

56:56

was going to erase the

56:59

things that you think about for the next ten

57:01

minutes to thirty minutes. Then

57:03

you have a guided counseling

57:06

session that walks you through the first

57:08

time you saw your current partner, the

57:10

first like the way they smell, walks

57:13

you through all of that stuff. As this enzyme

57:15

or whatever it is, is actually degrading

57:18

all of those connections that you

57:20

do it like three, you know, to ten times

57:22

in a row, and then eventually it's just gone.

57:25

I don't know. There's there's the I

57:27

see what you're saying. There's also this question though,

57:31

and of course, uh, this changes

57:33

person to person, but there's always this

57:35

question what makes

57:38

us us? A lot of people

57:40

who are maybe less on the

57:42

spiritual side will say you

57:45

are, we are, or every person

57:47

is the some of their own experiences

57:51

and their own synthesis and understanding

57:53

of those experiences. Right. What I'm

57:56

getting at here, and I

57:58

need to find more articulate ways to think

58:00

of this. I'm getting at is the question

58:02

of threshold. How many

58:05

unsavory or unwanted memories

58:07

can we remove before it

58:09

begins to affect core components

58:12

like personality. It's

58:14

a great question. I'm gonna say,

58:16

around fifty let's go you know what,

58:19

Let's go for it. Let's let's

58:21

get past the mice, get straight to the

58:23

people. Let's do some experiments.

58:26

But in all seriousness, if

58:28

if any of the the technologies

58:30

and the experiments happening right now, if

58:33

any of it comes to full fruition. UM,

58:36

And this is only projecting just from my

58:38

own experience, but I can only imagine

58:40

a lot of service men

58:42

and women, people who have served in militaries,

58:45

people who have been through traumatic experiences.

58:49

UM, would really appreciate

58:52

it, instand to benefit from a lot of this stuff

58:54

if you could do it in a safe way. I

58:57

really feel like this could be incredible. And

58:59

memorys are you

59:01

know? As as they say, memories are

59:05

one of the most important things

59:07

a person has. Memories,

59:11

at least up until now, where

59:13

one of the only things a person could

59:15

possess that could never be taken away from

59:17

them. Memories and

59:19

loose diamonds. Memories and bags

59:22

of loose diamonds. Thank

59:24

you so much for tuning in, folks. We hope

59:26

that you've found you found this

59:29

as fascinating as we

59:31

did, and we hope that you find the

59:33

possible ethical concerns

59:36

and possible consequences as

59:38

thought provoking and potentially disturbing

59:41

as we have found them today.

59:44

We want to hear what you think.

59:46

Should we live in a world where people

59:48

can sell the memories of others directly

59:51

into someone's brain. Should we live in a

59:53

world where you can take

59:55

away the pain that a particular

59:58

memory gives you. And if

1:00:01

we live in a world where that technology is

1:00:03

possible, what is to stop

1:00:06

other groups, organizations, institutions,

1:00:09

or entities from non consensually

1:00:12

removing or implanting memories

1:00:15

that jibe with their with their

1:00:18

desired pattern of the world. Wow,

1:00:21

right to us. You can find us on social

1:00:23

We're at conspiracy stuff in most places,

1:00:26

at conspiracy stuff on Instagram.

1:00:28

Yeah, Ben, what is your personal Instagram? You

1:00:31

can find me getting kicked

1:00:33

into and out of all sorts of places

1:00:35

on my Instagram named in a burst of

1:00:37

creativity at Ben Bolan. Most

1:00:40

definitely in Japan. There's some Japan

1:00:43

stuff in there, a lot of it. I

1:00:45

did erase some of

1:00:47

it, some of it is still around.

1:00:50

Yeah, there are memories of Japan floating out

1:00:52

there in the in the ether.

1:00:55

Alright, so uh check that

1:00:57

stuff out. You can find us on Facebook, join

1:00:59

our group. Here's where it gets crazy,

1:01:01

where you can talk with all of

1:01:03

the conspiracy realists out there who have been

1:01:05

listening to this. You can have discussions with them and

1:01:07

with us. Sometimes it just depends.

1:01:10

You can see me insisting that Matt Frederick

1:01:12

is the Tom Hanks of how stuff works did you

1:01:14

see that threat? No? I did not. He's

1:01:16

also the I don't

1:01:19

even know if you I don't know what the equivalent

1:01:21

is, the guy that's never there. He's

1:01:23

always around, but he's never there on

1:01:26

the socials at least. Oh okay,

1:01:28

okay, he's like, wow, do you have an

1:01:30

absentee Tom Hanks? Yeah,

1:01:33

that's exactly what it is. Like. I love Tom Hanks,

1:01:35

but he's never physically there for me. Yeah.

1:01:37

I mean they never check your backyard for bodies,

1:01:40

all right, so you can also find us.

1:01:43

Um well, one of the best things to do

1:01:45

is give us a call. We are one eight three three

1:01:47

st d w y t K. Your

1:01:50

voice may end up on an episode. Let us

1:01:52

know if you don't want it to, but otherwise,

1:01:55

just let us know what you're thinking. And

1:02:00

please support my good

1:02:02

friend writer dive Matt Frederick as

1:02:05

he literally is the person

1:02:07

who goes through those voicemails.

1:02:10

Thank you so much, Matt. I have got to do

1:02:12

a better job. This is like the fifth

1:02:14

time on air that me or

1:02:16

ghost Nol has said, look, we'll help you

1:02:18

out. I really need it. I just need

1:02:20

that log in. But you may be

1:02:23

saying to yourself, I hate

1:02:25

the phone. I don't like

1:02:28

social media. We of all

1:02:30

people get that completely. We're

1:02:32

on board with you, and

1:02:34

that's why we always have one last

1:02:37

way you can contact us. The rumors

1:02:39

are true, you can send us a good old fashioned

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