0:00

Oh, I've been waiting for this one. This

0:02

would do intelligence agencies running

0:04

cults. Oh man, We we learned

0:07

so much in the years following this classic

0:09

episode that, like, if we

0:11

went back in time and talk to each other now about this

0:13

or the future versions

0:16

of uh Been Matt Noel went and

0:18

talked to the past versions of Noel,

0:20

Matt and Ben, we would sound like

0:22

crazy people. Yeah, it's true. I mean

0:24

we already do a little bit sometimes, but this

0:27

would just exacerbate that experience for

0:29

sure. And in this case, we're discussing

0:31

whether or not there's any kind of

0:34

strategy to having control

0:37

of occult, Like, is there a reason

0:40

that an intelligence agency could make use

0:42

of a group of like minded people that follow

0:45

a single leader or maybe a group of people?

0:47

Why would you want that? And has

0:50

it happened? Let's stick around. You might

0:52

just find out from UFOs

0:54

two Ghosts and government cover ups. History

0:57

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:59

can turn back now or learn the stuff

1:01

they don't want you to now, Wall

1:10

wall, wall long,

1:13

Welcome back to the show, everyone. This

1:17

is stuff

1:19

they don't want you to know. I'm Matt and I'm Ben. Welcome

1:21

back, guys today it's

1:24

getting exciting. You

1:27

know, listeners can't see this right now, Matt,

1:29

but you have a you have

1:31

a weird grin on an

1:33

air of mischief about

1:36

And perhaps it's just the

1:38

most wonderful time of the year, which is what you

1:40

want to call Halloween on this show.

1:43

Or maybe you got something up your sleeves

1:45

there. Maybe every

1:48

time salmon comes around. I

1:51

feel a little bit that way. Yes,

1:53

the correct pronunciation, which we learned the hard

1:55

way. Yes. Uh,

1:57

listeners out there who

2:00

also watch our videos, you know that Ben and I have

2:02

tried our hand at starting one of those what

2:04

do you call them? Cults? Um,

2:07

it went pretty well, it did.

2:09

You can actually see some of the results

2:12

in a video series that we did. One

2:14

episode in particular wherein

2:17

Matt, you as the cult leader, have sent

2:19

me out to proselytize our coworkers.

2:22

Well, I will say that I was not self

2:24

appointed. Well, you know, sometimes

2:27

the Godhead just finds you right. Right,

2:30

So we we do have

2:33

a video where we take a satirical

2:35

look at some of the some

2:38

of the operations that cults. You some

2:40

of the techniques would be a better work, right,

2:42

How occult begins right, and

2:45

how a cult grows, and how it maintains

2:48

loyalty ideology and pushes

2:50

people into increasingly

2:53

unusual decisions.

2:55

Right sure, And uh, you know if

2:57

if you work in the

3:00

law or if you work with logistics,

3:02

then you're well aware of decision trees

3:04

and how with a little bit of forethought

3:07

and with some careful puppet stringing,

3:10

you can place people, uh,

3:13

very easily into a

3:16

situation that they would have never ever

3:18

in a million years thought they would do. And

3:21

which brings us to our

3:24

next side of the story here. And what's that meant?

3:27

Well, we're asking an interesting question here

3:29

today. Do intelligence agencies

3:32

run cults? Uh?

3:36

What an interesting question yet fascinating

3:38

even now in the United States. When we say

3:40

intelligence agencies, we're

3:42

talking specifically in this sense about

3:45

things like the FBI and the CIA,

3:48

the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Central Intelligence

3:50

Agency. And we know that these alphabet

3:53

agencies, specifically those two

3:55

and also the n s A and several

3:57

other of them, they are

3:59

actively monitoring groups, all

4:01

kinds of individuals that they consider to

4:03

be let's say, possible threats

4:06

to the national security.

4:08

Can you guys hear the finger quotations

4:11

we just put around that the air quotes. That's

4:13

because national security is often

4:15

vaguely defined and increasingly

4:17

so. So just for examples. Uh,

4:20

what what's something that these

4:22

agencies would monitor. One that

4:25

you are probably aware of is

4:27

the occupy movement that happened several

4:29

years ago and is still ongoing today.

4:32

Um. You can look there's um

4:34

a Guardian article that we looked at

4:36

about how the FBI coordinated the

4:39

entire crackdown, well not the entire but a

4:41

large portion of the crackdown on the occupy movement.

4:44

Um, and that's by Naomi Wolf. You

4:46

can check that out. Yeah, we've got a quotation

4:49

here. Part of this that

4:51

we pulled from this article for you guys to hear

4:53

is uh. In this article

4:55

in the Guardian, Naomi Wolf talks about

4:58

the documents that emerged showing how

5:01

closely the alphabet agencies and

5:03

private sector entities

5:06

cooperated, sometimes merging

5:08

into a single entity known as the

5:10

Domestic Security Alliance Counsel.

5:13

Here's a quote and reveals this merged entity

5:15

to have one centrally planned, locally executed

5:18

mission. The documents and short show the

5:20

cops and Department of Homeland Security

5:23

working for and with banks to target,

5:25

arrest and politically disabled

5:28

peaceful American citizens. That

5:30

really happened. Yeah,

5:33

yeah, yep, And

5:35

we know that that's not the first time it happens.

5:37

We know that throughout US history, other

5:40

groups have been civilian groups,

5:42

mind you, have been monitored by the

5:45

FBI in particular, but also other government

5:47

agencies, and the FBI in particular because

5:49

it's within the United States, that's why

5:51

they're the agency looking at it. And

5:54

we've looked at this before with Coentel pro. When

5:57

you look at the way that they

6:00

handled the FBI handled MLK

6:02

Martin Luther King Jr. And how like

6:05

how they monitored his phone calls,

6:08

they watched all of it, like all kinds of

6:10

just spying on this guy, went through

6:12

his mail, yeah, manipulating, sending him

6:14

threats. Very interesting and

6:16

scary. Then you've also got the Southern

6:19

Christian Leadership Conference, right,

6:21

Yeah, the s c LC

6:24

as well as m OKA and other members

6:27

affiliated. Both individuals and groups affiliated

6:30

with the civil rights movement were aggressively

6:33

monitored and targeted, but they weren't

6:35

the only ones. There was also what would be called the New

6:37

Left, where people pushing for Irish independence,

6:40

an exile group called Cuban Power UH

6:42

and people fighting for Puerto ricandependence

6:45

and so on. It even gets a

6:47

little bit crazier than that. We're talking about monitoring,

6:50

right, Yeah, groups that you would

6:52

not think would be monitored and

6:54

try me really okay.

6:57

Vegetarians, Oh

6:59

the isis of restaurants. Huh.

7:01

They're dangerous, man, more dangerous than

7:04

you could ever know. Also environmentalists,

7:07

And I can see the angle with environmentalists

7:09

because there is the uh

7:12

I don't I forget the term for it. Eco

7:14

terrorism? Yeah, um, I mean that does

7:16

exist, that is a real thing. But

7:19

vegetarians, I'm trying to think if maybe

7:21

there's an angle for on

7:24

Santo to get involved. I

7:26

wonder that's not a bad question. We

7:29

have a we have an interesting story to point you

7:31

toward. Check out the story of

7:33

an informant named Anna. And

7:35

Anna was asked to infiltrate things

7:37

like vegan potlucks, looking

7:40

for eco terrorists,

7:43

people who would be a threat to h

7:45

quote unquote national

7:47

security. Right. I watched recently

7:51

a movie on HBO. I believe it was

7:53

called The East. I think

7:55

that's what it's called. How about

7:57

eco terrorists and this

7:59

other are independent agency

8:02

that sends people to infiltrate them and I wonder

8:04

where some of maybe the story

8:06

of Anna comes into play. Yeah,

8:09

now, from what we understand, the informant Anna

8:11

is came forward because this

8:14

person may or may not be female,

8:17

but clearly I think it's female.

8:19

Uh, this person is

8:21

disillusioned with the

8:25

strategies used by domestic intelligence

8:28

agencies. If you haven't checked it out yet, checked

8:30

out our video about

8:32

whether the

8:35

whether these guys are on

8:37

the up and up and obeying the law

8:39

when they do the monetary and they certainly were not

8:41

doing it during co and Telpro, which

8:44

is why Congress changed some of the laws. But

8:48

how many of those laws got changed back a

8:51

little tidbit here in two thousand and two under

8:53

the Bush administration, some of those laws were

8:55

rescinded in the interest of wait for

8:57

it, National Secure

9:00

a d We better

9:02

not make that a drinking game, because

9:04

somebody's going to get alcohol poisoning. Um.

9:06

And you know this. We also know that

9:09

if we're just talking about monitoring a lot

9:11

of socialist leaning religious groups that

9:13

were anti war pacifist groups have

9:15

been targeted. In short, Matt,

9:18

they could target pretty much anyone

9:21

they wanted, But did they actually

9:25

infiltrate these groups? Well,

9:28

we're gonna find out really soon. After a quick

9:30

word from one of our sponsors, and

9:39

we're back and we can answer

9:42

this question. In the previous

9:44

part of the podcast, we talked about monitoring

9:47

groups illegally, but now it's time

9:49

to talking about something else. Right, Infiltration,

9:53

Now that's another thing that we've talked about several

9:55

times video, But for this

9:57

we're talking about civilian groups and

9:59

relig just groups and how the FBI

10:02

has infiltrated them before. Right,

10:04

Yes, infiltrated them, but not

10:07

just to infiltrate and surveil,

10:09

not just infiltrate as an informant.

10:11

There's a line that they crossed. So if our

10:13

question is to intelligence agencies

10:16

run cults, we know that they have certainly

10:18

influenced religions, and

10:20

you and I know, of course, and listeners you

10:22

know if you watched for video on cults, that the

10:25

division between a religion and occult

10:27

is a little bit gray. Just as one

10:30

person's terrorist is another person's

10:32

freedom fighter, one person's religion

10:34

is another person's cult. So

10:37

we know that the FBI CIA have

10:39

used informants to enter into Weather

10:42

Underground, which was a

10:44

group active a few decades

10:46

before our time. Listeners, some of you may remember

10:49

the days of Weather Underground. We know

10:51

that more recently and controversially, uh,

10:53

the FBI has placed informants

10:56

in mosques in the United

10:59

States. Uh. We covered

11:01

this in our video. Is the FBI manufacturing

11:03

terrorists? Why do we use that title? Man, Well,

11:07

it's because it has to do with entrapment in

11:09

one way, and then also sending

11:12

informants in to try and rile up

11:14

a group. So in this

11:17

guy's case, Craig Montel,

11:19

he went into a mosque and

11:21

while he was doing surveillance

11:23

on most of the people in one of these mosques,

11:26

she was also he was also talking

11:28

to them about jihad and

11:31

trying to rile everybody up. And

11:33

what they did is they

11:35

contacted Well, first of all, they put a

11:37

restraining order, so they said, don't

11:40

come back here anymore. This is not

11:42

what Islam is about. Yeah,

11:45

we are not the people you're looking for. And

11:47

then they also called the FBI. Yeah, and

11:49

they said, look, there's this crazy guy

11:51

who is trying to bomb

11:54

places and trying to get members

11:56

of our mosque in there, and he's harassing

11:58

people and the FBI. You

12:01

know, I can't imagine the phone

12:03

call that happened between there when

12:05

someone said someone said, yeah, there's

12:07

this guy who is uh, we got

12:09

a report that there may be terrorist activity

12:12

at this mosque, and who reported

12:14

it the mosque and then go okay, well, thank

12:16

you for the call. They put the phone down, heavy

12:18

sigh. They pick it up and they ring and

12:20

they go, Craig, the jig is up,

12:23

get out of there. I mean, but that that has

12:25

to be that that is such

12:27

an important question though, and that goes to the

12:30

question of infiltration versus running

12:32

or influencing occult because

12:35

the the idea here that critics

12:38

of this would would

12:40

site is just as you said, matt entrapment,

12:43

you know exactly. And so

12:46

let's let's look at another place that they've infiltrated.

12:48

Another topic that we've covered heavily owned video

12:51

recently are NGOs, non

12:53

government organizations and the

12:55

c i A. We we mentioned

12:57

that they send assets in two

13:00

look at groups such as oh,

13:02

I don't know, Peace Corps US

13:04

aid right, yeah,

13:07

there are a lot of them, and it

13:09

is sometimes with

13:12

the organization's understanding that they'll

13:14

be sending in an informant or

13:16

an asset, and sometimes

13:19

it's without that understanding. It's just what

13:21

who knew that John Doe wasn't really

13:23

from every town Kansas. It's so

13:26

weird to me. It happens, you know, it happens,

13:28

and uh it's also part

13:30

of the reason why we hear such

13:33

a stink. When people who

13:35

are working for Western

13:37

n GEO are detained in uh,

13:40

non Western country, often there's

13:43

this implication, whether

13:46

true or not, and I think you have to go case

13:48

by case basis whether true or not, there's

13:50

this implication from the

13:52

capturing country that these people

13:55

were not you know, kids work

13:57

college kids, working for the Peace Corps.

13:59

They were uh, plants from

14:01

the CIA or some

14:03

other intelligence agency. I can't

14:05

imagine being in that position, finding

14:07

someone from an n g O who's doing something

14:10

extremely suspicious and they go,

14:12

oh, man, okay, uh

14:14

this could be a CIA agent. Uh

14:17

gotta handle this carefully. Yeah,

14:20

oh man, I see, Yeah, that's a really

14:22

weird phone call to get to. And

14:24

then they call the They call the CIA.

14:26

The guy goes, oh, what really, and he hangs up.

14:28

He says thank you, hangs up the phone, He

14:30

lets out along sigh. He

14:33

picks it up, dials the number, and

14:35

says, Craig beautiful

14:39

back as far as we know, ladies and gentlemen, that

14:41

did not actually happen. But what does

14:43

happen on a regular basis is that

14:46

foreign intelligence assets are also put

14:48

in State Department in bussies. Right.

14:51

We also know that there's very compelling

14:53

evidence of CIA and FBI

14:55

front companies and were dummy organizations,

14:58

which you and I covered in some of our Gary

15:00

web stuff. Right. So these we airline

15:03

companies with names that are just so

15:05

vague and boring like Premier Executive

15:07

Transportation Services. I fell

15:09

asleep just reading that out loud, uh,

15:12

and inter Mountain Aviation. We also know that

15:14

financial organizations also

15:17

operate in foreign countries, you know, a

15:19

shell company for the purpose

15:21

of funneling money. So what

15:23

does this all tell us? Well, to me,

15:26

it says that our initial

15:28

question at the top perhaps

15:31

isn't all that crazy. Maybe

15:33

a government agency or a project

15:35

really could involve some kind of

15:38

front cult or a dummy cult.

15:41

Okay, So then let's go over some

15:43

of the illegal things, straight

15:46

up illegal that the c I,

15:48

A, n FBI and or FBI have done

15:50

proven. Yes, oh okay,

15:53

all right, um, let's see where

15:55

does start. There's

15:58

a good one that I can go. Okay,

16:01

hit me with your best shot. Almost

16:04

started singing, mk

16:07

ultra, that's nothing to sing about, mk

16:09

ultra. We've also done some videos on that.

16:12

Mk Ultra, as you know, is a

16:15

blanket term for a series of

16:17

related experiments which involved

16:19

everything from trying to create a

16:21

real life Manchurian candidate that

16:24

would be brainwashed assassin on command

16:27

two, uh, seeing if

16:29

LSD was a truth serum,

16:32

and just looking at how

16:35

humans interact when they're on hallucinogens

16:37

that way. And I still think

16:40

that one guy was assassinated. I don't

16:42

think he Yeah, I

16:44

don't think he just did acid and

16:46

jumped out of a window. Yeah.

16:50

Again, that's my personal opinion, folks. That

16:52

is not that is not in any way proven

16:54

the official stories that he committed suicide.

16:56

Yeah, and he wouldn't. He wouldn't be the first or

16:58

last person to jump from a high building

17:01

on some kind of you know drug.

17:04

However, Uh,

17:06

I have to a lot of force to propel yourself

17:08

through glass. Right, All

17:11

right, well, okay, what uh

17:13

what about the Tuskegee experiment right

17:16

where a group of people, I

17:19

forget what state it was in, but

17:22

they were not given they were okay,

17:24

they had syphilis, but they

17:26

were not treated, uh,

17:29

to cure the syphilis. They were just studied,

17:32

right and given placebo medications.

17:35

Uh. These were African American men in a

17:37

tremendously racist time in

17:39

the US past. I know a few of our listeners

17:42

will say, well, it's tremendously racist today,

17:44

but that it was very,

17:47

very openly institutionalized

17:49

racism to the point where it made

17:51

it okay from a governmental

17:53

standpoint to experiment on these

17:56

black men. And Uh.

17:59

While the us IS official

18:01

position is that the U

18:04

S admits this incident occurred

18:06

over a very long period of time, but

18:09

they say that these guys started out

18:11

with syphilis and simply were not treated.

18:13

However, other people,

18:16

anecdotal reports of people who were involved

18:18

at the times, say that they were given syphilis.

18:24

Right. But we did we did a correction

18:26

when we first did that episode, and we came

18:28

back and we said, um that according

18:30

to the official government standpoint,

18:32

which I think is how we phrased it. Uh, these

18:35

people were not given syphilis. They

18:37

had it already and they were not treated,

18:39

which is just as insidious and

18:42

unethical in my opinion. Wow.

18:46

Oh yeah, and then there's domestic chemical exposures.

18:49

Speaking of that, that's proven as

18:52

well. So government

18:54

agencies would just go to the rooftops of

18:56

some poor neighborhoods and they did this more

18:58

than once. And uh, and

19:01

chemicals, you know, to see what happened to stimulate

19:03

a widespread chemical exposure. Yeah,

19:06

and just you know, go to the local hospital

19:08

and find out, well, who came in with what, how

19:10

many? How did it manifest?

19:13

Man? Oh yeah, excuse me, listeners,

19:16

I'm meant to say simulate, not stimulate.

19:18

I believe I misspoke there. Um. And

19:20

of course we know that warrantless

19:24

snooping hand or surveillance is

19:27

I would say de facto

19:30

illegal, but other people

19:32

would say it's the facto illegal, being that

19:34

some of the interpretations of the law

19:37

remains secret because

19:40

of national security.

19:43

Oh man, please don't

19:45

be drunk right now. Yeah.

19:48

Uh. And then of course, how could we

19:50

go without mentioning uh, side

19:53

ops such as impersonating someone's

19:55

identity, anonymous harassment,

19:57

smear campaigns, and all that other stuff.

20:00

Uh, this would be stuff like you mentioned earlier,

20:02

Matt. What would they do with Martin Luther King's

20:04

mail? Oh, well,

20:06

all kinds of one things with his mail? Um,

20:09

they would intercept the mail,

20:12

check it out, see what's in there. If there's

20:14

anything juicy, make copies of things,

20:17

then put it back in the mail. They

20:19

would send him threats

20:21

and things like that in the mail. Um,

20:23

they'd impersonate people. That's what it is.

20:26

They would impersonate, like let's say

20:28

a letter from one of his close contacts

20:31

that was just seething and

20:33

mad at him or um.

20:36

I think there was one instance where they tried to

20:38

initiate some kind of

20:40

affair. Oh

20:42

yeah, I had heard. I have heard that story,

20:45

but I haven't looked it up myself. I don't mean

20:47

to give out false information. I hope that I'm not,

20:49

but it's in my in the back of my head

20:51

somewhere. Well, we do know they am okay, did have affairs,

20:54

so it's not out of the realm of possibility

20:57

unfortunately. Uh what Speaking

21:00

of the mail, it's time for a break

21:02

and we'll be back afterwards. Much sponsored

21:10

And we're back so so far

21:12

for a quick recap. We have looked at

21:15

We've looked at illegal things the government agencies

21:17

have done in the past. We have looked

21:19

at things that they're monitoring

21:22

activities. We've looked at infiltration activities,

21:25

and now it's time to get to the real

21:27

Here's where it gets crazy part.

21:30

Did a government agency ever run

21:33

occult? So here are some of

21:35

the alleged examples. Ben. The

21:38

first one is Jones Town. Now,

21:41

some people believe that Jim

21:43

Jones will we know that Jim Jones was

21:45

running a cult, the People's Temple,

21:47

the People's Temple that moved from several

21:50

places. I can't remember

21:52

the initial starting place, but I know it moved to California,

21:55

then to Guiana. And

21:59

the theory is that he was running a psychological

22:02

experiment of mind control

22:04

on these people, on

22:07

behalf of the CIA, or at least possibly

22:10

related somehow to the CIA. I

22:12

see. And that's that's an interesting idea,

22:15

which we do explore in that video you mentioned earlier,

22:18

because the People's Temple

22:20

at the time was a bit unusual

22:23

in that it actively encouraged

22:25

acceptance of all

22:27

creeds, and it was a little bit left leaning,

22:30

which would be otherwise

22:33

the kind of thing that the US government

22:35

would have closely monitored at that time

22:38

for possible descent or a threat to

22:41

national security. Well,

22:43

it's strange to me that

22:46

that it would still be. I guess

22:48

the reason why it was under CIA or

22:50

why it's thought to be under CIA is because they moved

22:53

outside of the country to Guiana,

22:55

which was a country in

22:57

the U S sphere of influence or but

23:00

I guess not officially

23:02

inside the US so it wouldn't be FBI,

23:06

right, Yeah. But also you

23:08

know, in the evolution of occult, they may have just

23:10

moved to a more isolated place to further

23:13

cement the leader's grip on

23:16

people. They had guards, armed guards,

23:18

increasingly militarized. Uh,

23:21

there were people who wanted to escape.

23:23

There are some huge unanswered

23:27

questions to this day

23:29

which you and I deal with in the videos

23:31

about how stuff went down, how the congressman

23:34

was killed, how the people were

23:37

killed, who committed suicide, reports

23:39

of additional people

23:43

or assets, even working

23:45

to UH sanitize

23:47

the operation and then later painting

23:50

it as a suicide when it may have been

23:52

instead as as the theorist would advance

23:55

a massacre UH

23:58

of a psychop on wrong

24:00

psy op rather, I think I think

24:03

that's fascinating at this point, the

24:05

evidence that you and I could find in

24:07

there, while tantalizing, was

24:10

far from certain sure,

24:12

And but there wasn't a CIA agent

24:16

who was working with Leo

24:18

or was it is his name, Leo Ryan, the congressman.

24:21

Congressman Leo Ryan. And then there is Dwire And

24:24

you can hear on the recording right that Jim

24:26

Jones are out of here. Get Dwire out of here.

24:28

Yeah, that is true.

24:31

Um, but at this point

24:33

that while that is one of the most popular

24:36

theories for an intelligence a du T running

24:38

a cult, it is ultimately at

24:40

this point it doesn't have solid proof yet.

24:42

Sure, it just has troubling unanswered

24:45

questions. Um. Can I tell you about

24:47

one of my favorites. Oh, I love

24:49

this one, all right. Uh. This

24:51

is the idea that scientology

24:55

and we're not calling scientology occult,

24:57

so lawyers, please don't

25:00

get mad. This is a theory

25:02

that Matt and I did not make up, that

25:04

the Church of Scientology

25:07

is somehow run by an

25:09

intelligence agency. And this

25:11

is this is actually a theory

25:13

that is kind

25:16

of more well known in the x scientologist

25:19

community than it is in the mainstream.

25:21

Um never been a scientologist part

25:24

of the world. Uh. And the the idea

25:26

here is that the current head of Scientology,

25:28

David Miskevig, is

25:31

working for the FBI

25:33

or the CIA, that he is an asset.

25:36

And you'll see ex scientologists

25:38

who say that they left the organization

25:41

because miss Kevig somehow

25:43

changed it, And um, you and

25:45

I of course are not scientologist, nor

25:48

have we ever been. We have

25:51

read about Scientology, but we've also

25:53

always read about it from the outside endure,

25:56

Uh little background. You hooked

25:58

us up with an excellent book that uh you

26:00

lent to me earlier, right, yes, going clear,

26:03

and I already forgot the author.

26:05

But it's fantastic. It looks

26:08

at it from an investigative reporter angle.

26:11

Um, on all these different angles, and the

26:14

uh, the author allowed Scientology

26:16

to go in and make footnotes and comment

26:19

on the entire book. Right. Yeah, The

26:21

book itself is on the up

26:23

and up. It's a great piece of journalism.

26:26

It does not address this theory.

26:28

It's more about the evolution of society.

26:30

But it does show the change of

26:33

the Church in Scientology when David ms Kevie

26:35

took over, right yeah. It just makes no claims

26:38

about this being anything other

26:40

than a change in leadership. Right.

26:43

So it's it's a popular theory

26:46

in a in a small segment

26:48

of the global population, but

26:51

it's it's a fascinating one, especially

26:53

when we consider that the Church

26:55

of scientology and the United States government

26:57

had historically uh versarial

27:00

relationships. Yes, again

27:03

detailed in that book quite beautifully. You

27:05

can also check out our video operations

27:08

snow White. We've

27:10

got got one other. Of course, we've got to save

27:12

this guy, good old Charlie Manson.

27:16

Yep, maybe nothing good about him,

27:18

but he is certainly old. The idea

27:20

is that Manson was groomed by aspects

27:22

are assets of the CIA to perform

27:25

mind control experiments in the

27:27

field. Yes, that would be a good

27:29

place to do some and

27:31

of course in this point, at this point,

27:34

apparently uh, Matt and I believe

27:36

that these the CIA

27:39

scientists are evil Germans. Yeah, I didn't

27:41

want to do a uncent

27:43

Oh no, no,

27:45

no, that would probably that would probably get

27:47

us in some hot water. But we'll see what We'll see

27:49

what comes out of our cartoonish Indiana

27:52

Jones German accents the

27:54

the The idea here, though, is fascinating

27:57

because this is one of those strings

27:59

that when you pull it unravels

28:01

more and more and more stuff.

28:04

So we know that Charles Manson

28:06

had some uh encounters

28:08

with dianetics, which

28:10

was a precursor to scientology,

28:13

during some of his time in prison, and during

28:15

some of his time in the hippie counterculture, when

28:18

he also encountered a group called

28:20

Uh was it is it four?

28:22

Pie? Or Pie? Is the alleged

28:25

Ah, yeah it's Pie not P

28:28

two. That's there, Okay, yes,

28:30

yes, that's the one that David Berkowitz

28:32

talked about the Son of Sam killer and

28:36

then got his throat cut

28:38

in prison and used to speak again.

28:41

Right, and there's uh, there's some

28:45

I you know, I hate to say it. I

28:47

hate to say it, but there

28:50

is some really compelling evidence

28:52

that the Son of Sam did not act alone.

28:54

Matt, that detective who never gave up. I

28:56

think he's right. Yeah, And uh,

28:59

this this argument here, uh, this

29:01

goes into the idea that there was

29:04

we first found out about it with Son of Sam

29:07

and Charles Manson, but it ultimately

29:09

expands into this idea that there is some sort

29:11

of serial killer cult or

29:14

some sort of um tacit

29:17

agreement to turn a blind eye

29:20

to certain unethical experiments

29:22

or criminal homicidal behavior.

29:26

Now, of course, in most

29:28

cases, logically it

29:31

doesn't make sense to think that so many

29:33

people could keep that kind of secret,

29:35

you know what I mean. That's that's

29:37

a big one ordinary

29:40

claim yeah, but fascinating.

29:43

Right, But Ben,

29:46

is this conspiracy theory

29:48

or is it conspiracy fact? Ah?

29:51

Yes, Okay, Well here's the thing. It's

29:53

unlikely that an intelligence

29:56

group, at least the ones we're talking about again in the United

29:58

States, would manifest acture an

30:01

entire cult. Yeah. I'm

30:04

trying to come up with any idea

30:06

of why you would manufacture an entire cult.

30:09

To what end would you do this? I'm

30:12

I'm honestly not sure unless

30:15

you you know, unless you wanted

30:17

a whole colony of mansuring

30:20

candidates you just keep in tiny,

30:22

darkened rooms. But you know which I

30:25

could understand. But it would be so

30:27

much easier to uh influence

30:30

an infiltrated cult than it would be you

30:32

know what I mean. Right, It's it's a lot more

30:35

plausible that that would happen. Because you,

30:38

again, if we take the standpoint of

30:40

one of these groups c I, R FBI

30:43

infiltrating them and keeping tabs on them,

30:46

that makes perfect sense to

30:48

me. Um

30:50

controlling one, Ah,

30:53

rising up the ranks and then controlling one, Now

30:55

that is interesting. That's the angle that

30:58

you and I would take, uh,

31:00

not that we have considered that, but

31:03

but we hope that you guys have enjoyed

31:06

this episode, and we hope that we have provided

31:09

enough fascinating things to to get you

31:11

going in different directions. And we want to

31:13

hear back from you when you come out

31:15

of the rabbit hole, especially

31:17

Matt. I'd like to hear about this

31:19

sort of idea in other cultures

31:21

and countries, like we know that China

31:24

has an adversarial relationship with the

31:27

Fallongong culture, which I'm

31:29

probably mispronouncing. We know that

31:32

UM, the church and the state in many

31:34

cases often clash and in

31:36

some cases they start to become synchronous.

31:39

UM. We also know that UM

31:42

some quasi

31:44

religious groups have been involved

31:46

heavily in government, like P two, which

31:49

we earlier UM. I mentioned it in the wrong

31:51

spot, but P two in Italy deserves

31:53

a mention right, which

31:56

would be a Freemason

31:59

associated group, associated

32:01

lodge that has

32:03

a lot of things, had a lot of fingers

32:05

and a lot of Italian pies.

32:08

I guess they were running.

32:10

You know, they had an undue influence, is

32:12

what I'm saying. I get you, man, So

32:16

what do you think? Is there any one of these

32:18

topics that you've watched

32:20

our videos? Maybe you want us to go deeper into any

32:22

of this. Do you have any opinions

32:25

about you know, whether or not you

32:27

think a cult is being infiltrated

32:29

and then perhaps is now run by the

32:32

icy cold hands of the c I nice,

32:35

nice imagery. I'm trying to go more Halloween

32:37

here and I'm not sure if it's being effective or not,

32:39

but you keep going with it. But right

32:41

to us, guys, Yeah, yeah. You can find

32:44

us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. We

32:46

have a website called stuff they

32:48

don't want you to know where you can see

32:50

let's see all of our videos, all

32:52

of our podcast Uh. You occasionally

32:55

put a blog up there. Uh, so check

32:57

us out there. And if you want to play magic

33:00

with me, I'm on mt g O and

33:02

I go by conspiracy Stuff. Check it

33:04

out. Play a game with me. Come

33:06

on and uh, ladies and gentlemen, my

33:08

co host here is serious about that. He

33:10

will play magic the Gathering with you. And

33:13

that's the end of this classic episode.

33:15

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33:18

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