0:00

Welcome back to the show everyone.

0:02

This is a classic episode

0:05

that blew us away honestly

0:07

when we when we first started working

0:09

on it. Serial killers

0:12

they are an object of

0:15

discussed and rightly so, but there are also

0:17

an object of fascination. In

0:20

the Western world. Serial

0:22

killers are the very definition of

0:24

an unreliable narrator. They're insane,

0:27

they're prone to exaggeration and

0:30

delusion, and obviously

0:33

they are inveterate

0:36

liars. If

0:38

you look at any case of almost

0:40

any serial killer, you will see many,

0:42

many claims that simply do not

0:45

bear up under scrutiny. But

0:47

then you will also see some

0:49

things that sound so

0:51

outrageous they have to be works of fiction.

0:55

And then later, maybe months,

0:57

years, in some cases decades later, we

1:00

learned that a few of those claims

1:03

were true. Today's

1:05

classic episode dives

1:07

into a controversial

1:10

and disturbing topic, the idea

1:13

of serial killers working

1:16

in concert, more than one

1:18

serial murderer working together.

1:21

But it goes further than that. We

1:24

also examine the claims of people

1:27

like David Berkowitz and Henry

1:29

Lee Lucas, who

1:31

told law enforcement multiple

1:33

times that they were not committing

1:36

these crimes on their

1:38

own, that they were not lone

1:42

creditors and criminals. Instead,

1:45

they and several other serial murderers

1:48

have sworn that they

1:51

were part of something else, large

1:53

organization, a shadowy institution,

1:56

a serial killer cult. What

1:58

are we talking about? We'll find out in

2:01

this episode from UFOs

2:03

two Ghosts and Government cover Ups. History

2:06

is riddled with unexplained events. You

2:08

can turn back now or learn the stuff

2:10

they don't want you to now. Hello,

2:17

welcome back. We'll welcome for the first

2:19

time to stuff they don't want

2:22

you to know. I'm bend and I'm at

2:24

and today we're going to start

2:26

the podcast with a

2:30

a little bit of a of a dark thing,

2:32

a little bit of a weird thing. All right, I like

2:34

it, Let's do it. Okay. So this

2:38

is a question that I want to throw

2:40

out to you and then we'll answer it at the end

2:42

of the episode. Sound cool, Yeah,

2:44

alright, I'm excited. Okay. How

2:47

many serial killers do

2:50

you think are active right

2:52

now? By which I mean uncaught, maybe

2:54

there in the hibernation phase

2:57

after they've done them, of

3:00

order of some sort. Um, how many do

3:02

you think there are? I

3:04

would estimate worldwide.

3:07

Um, you know what, let's keep it in

3:09

the US, just in the US

3:12

twenty Okay,

3:15

and that's you know that numbers sounds scary

3:17

at first, but there three

3:19

hundreds something million people here, and

3:23

of those twenty there are twenty. Then

3:26

a lot of them won't be active for a while

3:28

right at the turns there. Yeah,

3:31

I'll be like the B T K killer

3:34

Dennis Radar, who um

3:36

was out of it was

3:38

not murdering people for what a

3:40

decade more um, and

3:43

then finally got caught when he came

3:45

back, which is a

3:47

story for different day. So

3:49

as we begin met, I have to ask, um,

3:52

what is

3:54

a serial killer? Most

3:56

basic level, UM, it's

3:59

someone who kills for

4:01

a reason was for they feel,

4:04

Um, they feel that they need to kill

4:07

for some reason or another. They're compelled

4:09

to do so. It's a compulsion.

4:12

Um. There are various number of reasons. Because

4:14

they get sexual pleasure out of

4:17

doing so. Because

4:19

they feel that they

4:21

are called to to kill

4:23

a certain type of person for

4:26

pseudo religious reason maybe yeah,

4:29

that happens quite often, UM.

4:32

Or because they feel like they're

4:34

gaining something from it, that they're gaining

4:36

some kind of power by taking

4:38

the life of somebody else. And there there are several

4:40

other reasons. There. There's A. We have a great

4:43

article on how stuff works. If you want to read that

4:45

how serial killers work. It goes over

4:47

some of that basic level serial

4:49

killer stuff. Yeah, that's a that's a

4:52

Actually, that's a great primer for serial

4:54

killers. No. One. Thing that we should also

4:56

mention is that serial killer is

4:58

sort of an umbrella term in a lot of ways.

5:01

For instance, the ice man of

5:04

famous mob Hitman killed

5:07

quite a few people the

5:10

monetary gain because it was kind of

5:12

his job or his career path. And then

5:14

on the other side, we have people, um

5:16

who have received

5:19

heavy physiological trauma early

5:21

in their life and they don't process

5:24

emotions the same way that a

5:26

person with all the cylinders firing

5:28

does. And this is not

5:30

to say that neurological

5:34

damage automatically makes somebody

5:37

a monstrous human being, um,

5:39

but it can impair what

5:41

we would consider to be the essential

5:43

functioning of of

5:45

of a human Oh yeah, and one last

5:47

caveat. The people were

5:50

speaking about are not spree killers, and

5:52

they're also not um like mass

5:55

murderers generally, people

5:57

who would just go in and kill

5:59

a whole bunch of people at one time and

6:01

then either get caught killingmselves or

6:04

be done with it. These are people who

6:06

kill generally and then

6:09

they will it's very it's horrible

6:11

to say, but not kill for a period,

6:13

then kill again, and maybe they

6:16

will also and they'll also typically

6:18

uh cover up their crime if possible.

6:21

Just spree killer wouldn't do exactly. So

6:24

here is where

6:26

we get to a disturbing

6:29

and fascinating idea that a

6:31

long time ago. Now you and I

6:34

did an episode asking if

6:36

serial killers are controlled

6:39

by a cult. This is one of the

6:41

darker conspiracy theories we've run into,

6:44

and it's one that fascinates

6:46

us both. I think, oh yeah, well, because

6:49

you have the people the serial

6:52

killers talking about

6:54

certain groups like the four

6:57

Pie movement was mentioned. The

6:59

hand of death. Again, this

7:02

is from their mouths. These

7:04

uh, these organizations were mentioned,

7:07

right, yeah, and let's do a little bit of

7:09

background tiers. So let's start with a hand

7:11

of death. So Henry Lee, Lucas

7:14

oddust tool, Um, they

7:16

were something that rarely happens

7:18

in the acknowledged world of serial killers.

7:21

They were a team, they worked in pairs, and

7:24

um, they were lovers

7:26

for a time. They also claimed

7:29

to have killed. Eventually, they claimed

7:31

to have killed hundreds of people, especially

7:34

Henry Lee Lucas, and they said they did

7:36

this at the orders of an organization

7:39

called the Hand of Death, that they

7:41

were trained to murder people

7:44

um as part of a Satanic

7:48

ritual or some sort of dark

7:50

magic thing. And they

7:54

claimed furthermore that the Hand of Death was

7:56

not just based in this training camp

7:58

area. They claimed that it was a now national,

8:00

perhaps even worldwide organization

8:03

that spanned the

8:06

height than depth of human society,

8:09

all the way down to low lifes like them, and

8:11

all the way up to the

8:14

financial socio political elites

8:16

of the US and the world.

8:19

Um so crazy man. Even David

8:21

Burke Awitz uh he he said

8:23

that he had assistance that

8:26

were from the Four Pie cult Um.

8:29

He claimed to have insider knowledge of a murder that

8:31

still is unsolved. Um,

8:33

it's the artist Perry Stanford

8:36

Memorial Church murder of nineteen

8:38

seventy four. You can type that into

8:40

a search bar and you will find information

8:42

about it. Yeah, and people arguing both

8:45

for and against Burke awits his knowledge

8:47

of this. Yeah absolutely, And um,

8:50

now the Four Pie churches is pretty

8:52

interesting. We talked about those in the video.

8:55

Can you give us like a high level I

8:57

can? I might go down a

8:59

bit of a rabbit hole here. Just tell me when

9:01

you're ready for me to stop, Okay,

9:04

Okay. So the four Pie

9:06

movement was allegedly linked

9:08

to this thing called the Process Church

9:10

of the Final judgment Um,

9:13

which was kind of a it

9:15

was a cultish movement um

9:18

back in the nineteen sixties. And

9:21

man, it's it's pretty crazy, Okay.

9:23

So it was it started

9:26

off as an offshoot from the Church of Scientology,

9:28

the Process Church was, and

9:32

they they it's

9:35

kind of weird. Man. I don't want to get

9:37

too deep into what they believe or anything, but

9:39

it kind of it has

9:41

a link that I think you'll be interested in. So

9:45

they believe that their personality

9:47

traits in each one of us, uh,

9:49

and they marked they called called them there

9:52

four of them Jehovah,

9:55

Lucifer, Satan, and

9:57

Christ and

9:59

and they essentially worship all four. And they believe

10:01

that you kind of have to worship each one

10:04

to really attain enlightenment. Well, what's a

10:07

difference than if I could ask between Satan

10:09

and Lucifer. Lucifer is

10:11

more of the uh hedonistic

10:15

kind of a person um

10:18

self aggrandizing, look for knowledge,

10:21

that kind of thing, some more Promethean

10:23

kind of a light bringer, yeah, lucifer

10:26

Um, and then Satan is just more uh

10:31

aggressive, kind of an kind

10:33

of yeah, but then there's some of that in Jehovah as well.

10:36

It's really interesting, it's passing, and I recommend

10:38

anyone who wants to learn more about this. Uh.

10:40

There are a couple of things you can do. The first thing would

10:42

be to read The Process by

10:45

Gary Lakshman L. A. C. H

10:48

M. A n Um, which is

10:50

just a quick article from the forty in Times,

10:52

but it's really fascinating. Read um.

10:54

And there's also there are a couple of books that you can read.

10:57

But here's here's the thing. What's the link.

10:59

The link to me is the four pie

11:02

also known as four P. It's been mentioned

11:04

as the four P movement. UM.

11:07

So if you look at the symbol that

11:09

was used for this group, the Process Church,

11:12

it looks somewhat like a swastika,

11:14

kind of a little bit like a swastika,

11:17

but it's really four ps that

11:19

are linked at the circular

11:22

part of the P, but it's in a square,

11:25

but it's four pas right in

11:28

the Process Church. And I found that really interesting,

11:31

just as one of the you know, the conspiracy theory

11:34

kind of connection that really doesn't mean anything,

11:36

but it still makes you go just

11:39

enough to be disturbing, and we'll

11:41

come back to those folks. We also have side

11:44

note for this met there's a very interesting

11:47

story here in the cult angle

11:49

of the Man's murders. Now, Manson already

11:52

was leading a cult, and the question

11:54

is was this cult involved with

11:56

some other larger network. This

12:00

is just a story that I wanted to get out

12:02

there because not a lot of people knew it. During

12:05

the period leading up to Helter

12:07

Skelter, when Manson

12:09

and his group were on a darker, precipitous

12:12

decline from their otherwise

12:15

utopian philosophy or or whatever

12:18

thing mayd going on, they went out to

12:20

the desert right and uh,

12:23

their ideas got crazier and crazier.

12:25

Of course, the ultimate stated

12:27

aim for the murders

12:30

that the Manson family ultimately committed where

12:32

that they were trying to trigger a global race

12:35

war um that would

12:38

be between black people

12:41

and white people, and the whole time the Manson

12:43

family would hide out in some

12:45

magic cave where they would have

12:47

all the supplies they needed, and then

12:50

after the black part of

12:52

the world's population killed

12:55

all of the white people Manson,

12:57

who was cartoonishly

13:00

racist right, thought that

13:02

his family would climb out of this magic

13:04

cave and take over because,

13:07

of course, he assumed black people

13:09

are incapable of

13:12

making of of making authoritative

13:14

decisions, which just gives

13:16

me, just gives you, like a peek into how

13:18

ugly this guy's mind is. Right,

13:21

Yeah, and just insane.

13:24

It's so insane. It is so insane.

13:26

I don't know how you can believe it. I guess it helps

13:28

if you are yourself a very racist

13:31

person. But he um. But the

13:33

reason I bring up all this crazy stuff is

13:35

at the same time that this was happening,

13:37

there was a minor named

13:39

Paul Crockett who lived nearby.

13:42

And Paul Crockett is a very mysterious

13:44

character in the Helter Skelter story.

13:47

He was, remember this older retired

13:49

miner, but he had knowledge somehow

13:51

of scientology and other similar

13:54

practices. Now, when I say

13:57

cultish, you guys

13:59

know what I'm talking about. I know that

14:01

people might say

14:03

that we're saying something bad about

14:06

scientology. No, we're saying he had knowledge

14:08

of this, and he had knowledge

14:10

of other things that helped him um

14:13

rescue some of the people in

14:15

Charles Manson's family, and

14:18

they had these amazing psychological

14:21

battles with each other where

14:24

Manson was trying to get in his head and

14:26

Paul Crockett was. It was very it was

14:28

very Yoda uh, Emperor

14:30

Palpatine kind of kind of the

14:33

forces of light and evil there. And

14:36

when when we talk about this, when

14:38

we talked about the manipulation uh,

14:41

that Manson had, there's been a lot of conspiratorial

14:43

thoughts um or conspiratorial

14:46

arguments that Manson was somehow

14:48

getting orders from somewhere

14:50

else, not just influenced by the

14:52

dianetics and stuff he studied in prison,

14:55

not just influenced by his contact

14:57

with counterculture cults in California,

15:00

which was a strangely difficult sentence

15:02

to say, but that he was also um

15:06

working at the behest of this. Now

15:12

here we have these ideas,

15:15

and each of these three, these three

15:17

examples have some sort a

15:20

different level of credence. So

15:22

for me, UM, the most

15:26

plausible one is David Berkowitz

15:29

Um, because another guy named

15:32

Stanley Baker was

15:35

caught committee murders. He said he was

15:37

recruited by four pie in University

15:39

of Wisconsin. And David

15:41

burk Awitz, you know, originally he

15:43

copped to all the murders. He didn't change

15:46

his story until the nineties, but

15:48

he was already in jail forever. No

15:50

way he was getting out. Um.

15:53

Didn't someone also attempt to murder

15:55

him? Yes? And he changed his story

15:57

because of that. Yes, someone

15:59

also attempted to murder him imprison

16:02

Uh. Some of the investigators in the

16:04

Berkowitz case think

16:06

that there's credence to the idea

16:08

that his people who lived nearby,

16:10

the car brothers C. A. R. R.

16:13

Had a role in this um

16:15

and they both died in

16:18

during parts of the investigation.

16:21

Um. So I would say that as the most credents,

16:23

and then the Manson stuff.

16:26

It's it's difficult to tell because it's

16:28

a question of how much weight are we

16:30

putting on people hanging out together in California?

16:33

You know what I mean? Just because you and I

16:36

go to a party with it

16:38

happened to be in the same room with someone, doesn't

16:41

mean that we're planning an international

16:44

Satanic panic. Yeah. And

16:46

just because a couple of members of the Processed

16:48

Church went and visited Manson

16:51

one time doesn't necessarily

16:53

mean anything, right, Yeah, Just

16:55

like just because the process Church

16:57

was an offshoot of people made

17:00

by people who met via scientology.

17:02

Doesn't mean that it's in any way condoned

17:06

by or related to the

17:08

actual church or No, No, not at all. And gosh,

17:10

I hope nobody got

17:12

that from what I was saying. No, I don't think, Okay,

17:15

I don't think. Just just to clarify, the processed

17:17

Church used the idea

17:20

of using the E meter,

17:22

and they just kind of changed that around a little bit

17:25

into their own thing and used

17:27

it to to measure

17:30

emotion rather than uh

17:33

whatever it is that E meter, which

17:36

is uh, well, I

17:38

just have to say that this

17:40

is also in the Church

17:42

of Scientology. It's a hugely

17:45

bad heretical thing to do, to

17:47

to mess with in any way these ideas

17:50

or to have your own ideas inserted

17:52

in there. Um. I think one of the terms for

17:54

it is squirreling, and that makes

17:56

you an sp or suppressive person,

17:59

which is very bad. Yeah, and now you don't

18:01

want to be that. No, it's anathema or

18:03

shutting kind of. Uh So, anyway,

18:06

we're we're talking about all

18:08

these different organizations, the and these

18:10

different stories. The least plausible

18:13

story is, uh the

18:15

hand of death story with Henry Lee Lucas

18:18

and oddest tool. Now I

18:20

think it's the least plausible because

18:24

they're not because there's not a conspiracy.

18:27

I think this actually does have a genuine

18:30

conspiracy. But you know what I'm talking

18:32

about. You know why I don't think that Henry

18:34

Lee Lucas really killed over three people.

18:37

Well, yeah, one

18:39

of the biggest things you look at with serial

18:41

killers is their level of intelligence

18:44

in order to get away with a huge

18:46

number of murders like that. And

18:49

let's face it, if you look at

18:51

Henry Lucas an honest tool, Um,

18:54

they're not the sharpest knives

18:56

in the kitchen. Yeah,

18:59

they're not the

19:01

brightest bulbs in the pack,

19:04

right, Yeah, the um

19:06

for a number of reasons,

19:09

especially in the case of Lucas, who suffered

19:11

some fairly horrific injuries in

19:13

his childhood. Um, these

19:15

are not men's A level criminals.

19:18

They're not as intelligent

19:20

as say Ted Bundy, for instance,

19:22

So their claims

19:25

um don't really

19:28

have the best credibility

19:31

at all. Let's even just not considering

19:33

the fact the fact that serial

19:35

killers are prone to wild

19:37

exaggeration because

19:40

they are crazy. Um, there's

19:42

or you know, if you're a serial killer, you're

19:44

listening to this right now. You have

19:46

a dysfunction. You don't

19:48

have superpowers, you

19:50

really don't. But these, uh, some

19:53

of these problems can be

19:55

exploited by the real conspiracy,

19:57

which I submit to you, was that law

20:00

enforcement saw in Henry Lee Lucas

20:02

and artist Tool a way to close

20:05

a bunch of unsolved, unsolved,

20:09

unresolved cases. And you can see

20:11

this because the crimes

20:13

that they're agreeing to committing at

20:16

times were physically impossible

20:19

for them to commit. Now they would

20:21

say that maybe with somebody else in the cult, right

20:24

in the hand of death, if you push them towards that.

20:26

But Lucas also said

20:28

that he was confessing to things because he would

20:30

get better treatment in the prison

20:33

system, which is just way

20:36

more plausible to me. So

20:38

well, I can see that that That's one of the biggest things

20:41

you have to do as a law enforcement agency is to close

20:43

cases. And you know,

20:46

sometimes if there's a scary thing, you

20:49

have to you have to find

20:51

a way to make it stop. Even

20:54

if it doesn't actually stop the killings,

20:57

it's gonna it's gonna quell the

21:00

fears. You're thinking of McNulty and the wire.

21:02

That's exactly what I'm thinking of. Yeah,

21:05

uh so, the the idea here is

21:09

is frightening

21:11

in its own way, that there

21:13

could be people who were waiting to

21:15

hear what happened to their missing

21:18

parents, they're missing child, the missing friends,

21:21

and to be told a

21:23

lie that there was this guy

21:25

who couldn't possibly done the murder,

21:27

but he says he's done it. And false

21:29

confessions are distressing, but it also

21:32

really really throws

21:34

a lot of the credibility

21:38

of this cult story to the wayside.

21:41

Now we do know that there are people who really

21:43

have been parts of cults. Uh

21:46

This guy named Jeffrey Lundgren part of a

21:48

heretical offshoot of the

21:50

Church of Latter day Saints or the Mormon

21:52

Church. Um. He killed people, killed

21:55

a family of five. Guy

21:57

named Aldolfo constanzo

22:00

Um was

22:02

a drug dealer and worked

22:05

with Cartel's and practiced

22:08

black magic, where we would have a cauldron

22:10

of people's bodies, they would

22:12

eat from it, they would use it the magical

22:14

rituals. It didn't

22:17

prevent him from being caught

22:19

at all. It's almost as if that

22:22

didn't work. I'm not going to go ahead

22:24

and say that what he was doing made

22:27

him a charlatan, but it certainly didn't

22:29

keep him alive. Fair point, fair

22:31

point, fair point. But so with

22:33

with those cults. These were

22:36

um like the Manson cult. They were tight knit

22:38

groups of people who had

22:40

been psychologically exploited right

22:43

and had their egos

22:45

slowly erased by a charismatic

22:48

leader of some of some sort, and

22:50

then had that enforced by intimidation

22:52

and fear. Um. This

22:55

is a regrettably easy

22:58

thing to do. Now been

23:02

we've talked about a lot of the past serial

23:05

killers that we know about, um,

23:07

about what makes them a serial killer and about

23:10

what um strange

23:12

circumstances they found themselves in. But here's

23:15

where it gets crazy. There

23:18

are serial killers out there right

23:20

now, probably with all

23:23

I mean. I say probably because

23:25

I can't prove it. But they're

23:27

out there right now, sitting somewhere,

23:30

maybe in a van, maybe in

23:32

their shock up on the mountain, maybe

23:35

in their mansion, maybe in the church,

23:38

maybe in a church. They're

23:40

just hanging out plotting. Maybe they're

23:43

not plotting. Maybe today they're just having a sandwich

23:45

and reading the newspaper. Um, you

23:47

know, maybe they're hugging their children right now.

23:50

But they're there, out

23:52

there, right now. Yeah,

23:55

it is true. Uh, no one knows

23:58

to answer our original question, No

24:00

one has any idea how

24:03

many active serial killers could

24:05

exist. When I was UM, when

24:08

I was looking into some of this stuff earlier,

24:11

it hit me and I always remember this thought

24:14

stayed with me, which is, um,

24:16

the serial killers that are caught,

24:19

right, are often caught

24:22

because there they

24:25

were in a decline, a psychological

24:27

decline of some sort. Right, So

24:30

what if we're just getting the dregs

24:33

of the serial killer population. What

24:35

if we're just finding the people

24:37

who were not able to sustain their

24:40

monstrous appetite or to maintain

24:44

they're terrifying addiction to death,

24:46

or they just weren't that good in the first place

24:48

at being at playing that creepy

24:51

role. Right, Yeah, exactly,

24:53

because there are for every um.

24:56

For every person who gets caught

24:59

UM because

25:01

they have done things that

25:04

clearly implicate them in a

25:06

crime, there are other people who

25:09

are probably getting away with something right now. Now, not

25:11

very many, I don't. I don't

25:13

think that it's a common thing, but

25:15

there I'm sure that a

25:18

simple search will show us

25:20

cases of You know what, one

25:23

one type of serial killer that gets

25:25

around a lot is the

25:28

medical practitioner. Every

25:31

once in a while kills a patient.

25:34

Yea, not every day,

25:37

not every year, but

25:39

every Hey

25:41

yeah, maybe when you're in the hospital. But

25:44

but we don't want to be alarmist. This is very small

25:46

thing. The question is

25:49

is there any sand to this

25:51

conspiracy theory that serial

25:54

killers could be part of a cult. Well,

25:58

let's talk about the thing that you left

26:00

us with on and on our video

26:03

that we made about this. Okay, this conspiracy

26:05

theory relies heavily how did you put it?

26:07

Relies heavily on the

26:10

the information

26:12

or the statements of people who are insane.

26:14

Oh. Yeah, that that's the little caveat

26:17

there, right. Yeah. That The main

26:19

weakness of this conspiracy theory is that

26:21

relies heavily on the

26:23

statements of serial killers who are again nuts

26:28

bonkers. Yeah. I mean, you watch

26:30

any interview with Charles Manson,

26:33

any of them. I don't care which one. Just

26:35

watch it, check it out. And people

26:37

might say that he's a different case because it's

26:40

not because he didn't physically commit

26:44

you know, the Tate la Banca murders. But it's

26:46

clear. But it's not a healthy

26:49

thing to want to do, to kill multiple

26:51

people for no reason. That is a nice

26:53

way to put it, and and um, I

26:55

guess, I guess one thing that we do need

26:57

to talk about is that a lot of these these

27:00

cult theories originated during

27:02

a moral panic in the United States was

27:04

called the Satanic Panic. And

27:07

the Satanic Panic was this idea

27:10

that there were numerous cases

27:12

of child abductions, rapes,

27:14

and murders um

27:17

at the behest of a secret

27:20

Satanic network that ran the

27:24

the world as we know it went all the way

27:26

up the government's all over the world.

27:29

And that gave us one fascinating

27:32

fact about the

27:34

only pardon it

27:36

was ever received when George Bush

27:38

was governor of Texas, which we just have to mention,

27:40

people will get mad if we don't he

27:44

he pardoned, Well, it was it was

27:46

George W. Bush as then governor.

27:49

And then wasn't it also Jeb Bush

27:53

who also made Florida in Florida, who

27:55

made a bit of a strange pardon and

27:58

who was that foreben oddest tool

28:01

was pardoned in Florida? And um,

28:04

George W. Bush pardoned Henry

28:07

Lee Lucas in Texas. This was the

28:09

I believe, the only pardon on

28:11

the execution board. Or didn't they

28:13

just they stayed their execution or

28:15

what it? What was it exactly then? But I mean

28:17

both men died in prison. Yeah, yeah, but they

28:20

weren't executed because because

28:23

of the bushes um. Now, you

28:25

know, we don't know the story behind that. But that's

28:27

one of the facts that people will always

28:29

point out to us when we say, well, no, they

28:31

probably weren't part of a cult. They're probably making it

28:34

up. To be honest, Matt,

28:36

you and I do not know the story

28:39

about those uh stays

28:41

of execution. We don't know what I've been seen.

28:44

I haven't seen any literature on

28:46

exactly why either of those pardons

28:49

occurred. Now, I do

28:52

think that there might be I'm gonna

28:54

rate this one as wildly

28:57

exaggerated, but to

29:00

a degree possible. I think it's completely

29:02

possible that there are groups of people who

29:06

plan or execute

29:09

murders for ritualistic

29:11

or ideological purposes. Um

29:14

some of And we know for a fact

29:16

that there killers who remain uncaught.

29:19

There's a stretch of highway in

29:22

what is it Canada where uh

29:24

an abnormal amount of people turn

29:26

up missing. Uh there is,

29:28

I think it's in Canada. There's also

29:31

what's called the Train murders spelled t R

29:33

a n e U used to

29:35

be called the Smiley Face Killer. I

29:38

don't know if that's real or if it's an urban legend.

29:40

Maybe people can tell us more about it. But

29:44

long story short, too late, ha ha

29:47

uh. Is there an international

29:50

community of devil worshippers

29:52

killing people? Most

29:55

likely there's no way it could happen

29:57

and remain a secret. Is

30:00

there are there groups

30:02

of small, small

30:05

groups of lunatics rather who are

30:07

killing people. Absolutely, there's

30:09

no way around it. There's certainly small

30:12

groups of lunatics consistently

30:14

killing people, and it is not

30:16

unreasonable to say that some of those

30:18

groups have yet to be caught. Sure,

30:21

it makes me think of pulp fiction and

30:24

the guys are on the pawn shop. You just

30:26

every once in a while catch somebody

30:29

in their trap and execute

30:31

them. And that, Oh man,

30:33

that really creeps me out, and I

30:37

enjoy that. It makes my imagination

30:40

run wild. But

30:43

Ben, I think we're gonna be giving people

30:45

nightmares by talking about this. Well

30:47

also, yeah, well we are talking about our statistical

30:50

anomalies. It's there's statistical

30:52

anomalies, but there are it's also just

30:55

kind of a reality. We

30:57

a lot of times on our show we talked about the human nature

30:59

and the nature of humanity and what

31:02

the darker side of it, what it leads to. And

31:05

that's exactly what this is. Yeah,

31:07

it is. We would we would like

31:10

to hear what you think. Thank

31:12

you guys for listening to our episode

31:14

on the serial killer cults conspiracy

31:17

Matt, what what do you want to have people tell

31:20

us about? I'd like to hear um some conspiracy

31:23

theories about serial killers, especially active

31:25

serial killers. If you have any information,

31:28

let us know the stories you've heard, and then

31:30

also let us know whether you believe

31:32

them. Yes, please don't

31:34

cut out letters from magazine

31:37

and rearrange them into a letter and send it to

31:39

us, or do well, please God, don't

31:41

do that. Uh.

31:43

If you rather not cut out pieces of newspaper

31:46

and send us those publications,

31:48

you can be our friends on Facebook. We would

31:50

love it. Help us keep our jobs. You can

31:52

send us a tweet on Twitter. We

31:55

are conspiracy stuff at both

31:57

of those and and that's the

31:59

end of the classic episode.

32:01

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32:03

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32:05

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32:08

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32:10

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32:17

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32:19

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