0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or

0:09

learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of I Heart Radio. Hello,

0:24

welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

0:27

my name is Noel. They call me

0:29

Ben. We're joined as always with our

0:32

guest producer, Mr Matt

0:34

Frederick. Most importantly, you are

0:36

you. You are here, and that makes

0:38

this the stuff they don't want

0:40

you to know. This is gonna be one

0:43

in uh what'll probably what'll probably end up

0:45

being a continuing series. If

0:47

you saw the headline, it is companies

0:50

started by cults, run

0:52

by cults affiliated with cults. We

0:54

all know that's a that's a weird word, so

0:57

use the phrase religious sect if you

0:59

wish when you're talking with your family

1:01

and friends over the holidays. Here's

1:04

the story. A while back, we delved

1:06

into the strange, at

1:08

times intensely troubling

1:10

story of a group called Falling

1:12

Gong. They're a religious sect out

1:15

of mainland China. They run

1:17

quietly run the famous shen Yan

1:20

performance group. And this got us thinking,

1:22

many many months back, what other

1:25

companies and corporations might

1:27

be associated with or even run

1:29

by organizations that the

1:31

average person would consider a cult.

1:34

Uh. Here are the facts. First

1:37

things. First, we talked about this many

1:39

many companies are ultimately

1:42

owned by the strangest entities, and

1:44

you would not know this if you were just walking

1:46

by them and your department store.

1:48

You were clicking and buying stuff online.

1:52

Um. I think a lot of it is due to brand

1:54

acquisitions, right, so

1:56

much, so much when

1:58

when you look at the manu factured foods

2:01

businesses and that are out there, and

2:03

how many of them got purchased by

2:06

like Big Tobacco back in the day

2:08

when you if you really thought about that, you might

2:11

not buy some of the snacks you go to the store and

2:13

buy every week now my jerky,

2:17

oh man, not just the jerky, the fast

2:19

food outfits, cereal companies.

2:22

I mean so many can look like their own

2:25

independent things. I

2:27

only drink Lipton tea, someone

2:30

might say, because it is you

2:33

know, it is the tea that I like out

2:35

of all the teas in the world. Uh.

2:38

And you might think this is an independent

2:40

thing, right. These companies are like

2:43

hey Ben and Jerry.

2:45

They own the only ice cream that

2:47

I will eat. It's somehow different and better Uh,

2:50

but what you'll find is a lot of these

2:52

that seem to be competitors. They

2:55

have the same bosses. It's the same with

2:57

like craft breweries, right

2:59

Like you'll have a raft brewery that does really

3:01

well and then all of a sudden Bushmells swoops

3:03

in and grabs them. But they do it with very

3:05

little fanfare because they

3:07

were lying, nay hoping,

3:10

you know that folks won't realize the

3:12

SWITCHERU has taking place a hundred

3:14

percent. You know a great example of this

3:17

would be uh corporate behemoth

3:19

like Uni Lever. They owned

3:21

Dove, they own Acts, they own Lipton,

3:24

They owned Ben and Jerry's. Uh. They

3:26

also own Walls, ice cream,

3:28

Hellman's everything. Helman's makes vassoline,

3:32

they owned slim Fast and like, you

3:34

can see how it gets so confusing when these

3:36

large companies interact. Uni Lever

3:39

doesn't Uh isn't just the

3:41

owner of Lipton, Uh,

3:44

it is the co owner another big

3:46

company, PepsiCo. PepsiCo

3:48

owns everything, right. Then they owned Tycho,

3:51

which was always like the

3:53

the second run to Lego.

3:55

I think Tycho just kind of made

3:57

like just general

4:00

run of the mill kind of children's toys.

4:03

They were kind of boxy and lego adjacent,

4:06

but like not as intricate. I

4:08

know that uh Tycho I always associated

4:10

them with the sort of military indoctrination

4:13

toys that are really common in the US. You

4:15

build tanks with Tycho, right, just

4:18

like g I Joe's, which I always thought were awesome,

4:21

are are there to make you very pro military.

4:24

But I think another thing PEPSI owns

4:26

lipped In. Weirdly enough, they

4:29

co owned lipped In with Uni Lever, and

4:32

I like the point that you have made no about

4:35

brands and the power they have.

4:37

Brands are popular, they command loyalty.

4:40

So if you're a corporation and you're buying

4:42

a brand, you're buying this image

4:45

and you want to manage it. So like

4:47

the average person isn't walking in and

4:49

thinking, oh I love buying

4:51

Unilever brand ice cream, or hey,

4:54

I only drink Uni Lever t right,

4:56

that's why it's not on the package.

4:59

It isn't And like super fine print, Yes,

5:02

if you really want to dig for it or do your

5:04

homework, you can. You can figure out what these

5:06

uh where these threads go. You know what these

5:08

organ charts look like. And you

5:11

know, as as we've discussed in a lot of corporate

5:13

conversations that we've had on this show. Those

5:15

organ charts usually kind of go back to one

5:17

or two or three entities, and it really

5:20

starts to make you think about things like political parties,

5:22

you know, because it's all kind of what do we

5:24

say we were hanging this weekend? Ben uh,

5:26

fingers on a glove, you know, like it really

5:29

is kind of that same um example here

5:31

fingers on the hand. Yes, sir, that's

5:33

one big funnel. It's one big

5:36

funnel. It's operative word

5:38

being fun Yeah.

5:41

And sometimes they take the l as well.

5:43

I mean this, this isn't necessarily

5:46

sinister, but it is misleading.

5:49

A lot of people only become aware of these

5:52

huge portfolios and these ultimate

5:54

owners when you see a boycott

5:56

go viral and start making the rounds.

5:58

Right, someone says, hey, we need to boycott

6:01

Nestley, for instance, And someone

6:04

says, okay, that's fine, I can go without

6:06

Nestley crunch Bar. And they say, wait,

6:08

here's the full list of all

6:10

the stuff that company owns. And

6:13

then you know it's a it's a ephemeral

6:15

social media posts, so it usually gets

6:17

ignored in about forty eight to seventy

6:20

two hours like everything else.

6:22

But it's one of those things been it.

6:24

It feels like it's not a I

6:26

don't know, a shadow move to not

6:29

openly promote brands as

6:31

the mothership you know, ownership

6:34

company. But it does feel I

6:37

mean you we're right, it's a move, right, it's a strategic

6:40

move to diversify

6:42

the likes of your consumers so

6:44

that they do latch onto those things.

6:47

But it does feel like it's hidden

6:49

purposefully. It does it. There's marketing

6:51

to I mean, like, okay, if you're familiar with military

6:54

products or military rations, you know, what's

6:57

the alternative? Would everything just be an

6:59

identical packaging it was stamped

7:01

like product zero six twelve a

7:03

z uh powdered

7:05

potatoes, UNI lever or something

7:08

like that. People wouldn't buy it, right, And the big

7:10

you know, corporate overlords PR

7:13

teams, when pressed on this,

7:15

would likely argue, no, no, this is a

7:17

service. You know, we're we're serving

7:19

different segments, We're we're serving different

7:21

needs and it's not a one size

7:23

fits all thing, so it's not appropriate

7:26

for us to brand you know, something

7:28

that's more specific to uh, you

7:30

know, uh women eighteen

7:33

to thirty two. You

7:35

know, let's see um cosmetic

7:37

product with the lunar Unilever stamp,

7:40

you know, because yeah,

7:43

right exactly, that's its own wing,

7:46

that has its own aesthetics and its own

7:48

consumers that we are here to appeal

7:51

to. And we're not obfuscating, we're

7:53

not being dishonest. You can

7:55

totally find that that that we are in the parent company.

7:57

But that's sort of missing the point. Again. I'm

8:00

speaking on the perspective of the of the parent company

8:02

here. Yeah, I think there is some rationale

8:04

going into it, but I also

8:07

like the phrase of instead of wing, another

8:09

tentacle, if you will. But either way still

8:11

alarmingly Cathulu esque. Uh.

8:13

This this thing though, um, now we're

8:16

talking about guys. I it makes

8:18

me yearn for

8:20

a world where products do

8:22

have that backstage information printed

8:24

right on the front. Like I want the demographic

8:27

there. I want to know right,

8:29

oh, this is actually for people

8:32

who are you know, eighteen two fifty

8:35

four, who are for some reason

8:37

very you know, left handed. I

8:39

want to do that, like, I want all that information.

8:42

Um, this is Unilever real

8:44

mayonnaise, yes, exactly

8:47

exactly, and this, um, is

8:49

it for the benefit of the consumer? I would

8:51

say, maybe, but not necessarily

8:54

that's kind of a convenient thing to

8:56

argue. But it gets even trickier when

8:59

we realize that some of these

9:01

companies who make things

9:03

you will run across every single

9:05

day in the West, they have association

9:08

with things that would surprise you. And it goes

9:10

far beyond global corporations

9:13

trying to play pay

9:15

no attention to the man behind the curtain. There

9:18

are a lot of religious

9:21

sects that have incredible

9:24

influence on products

9:26

that you buy every day and therefore incredible

9:28

influence on you. And it's stuff

9:30

they don't want you to know about pretty often because

9:32

it might affect their bottom line.

9:35

And you know, again, real

9:37

quick, whenever we talk about these things, we know

9:40

the c word cults can be a little

9:42

dirty, and a lot of groups that you

9:44

would consider cults will fund,

9:46

will take umbradge, they'll be offended if

9:48

you call them that. So we'll go with the

9:50

phrase religious sex or cults. We're

9:53

just using that for the sake

9:55

of communication in

9:57

most cases here, So we're we're

10:00

saying that out front just to

10:02

make sure that if you're a member

10:04

of these sex and you're listening, you

10:07

know that we are. We're describing statements

10:09

of critics. We are describing statements

10:11

of supporters. But as always

10:14

here on stuff they don't want you to know we

10:16

are, I would say, spiritual libertarians.

10:19

We do not detigrate other people's personal

10:21

beliefs, so long as you're not hurting other

10:24

people. Right, that's pretty fair, right,

10:26

spiritual libertarian. I don't

10:28

know if I love that phrase. Workshop

10:31

at Universal Unitarian

10:34

Church of Light for

10:37

all people there we go so

10:40

so we started digging into this, and

10:42

we started asking ourselves just how common is

10:44

this? What we're gonna do now is introduce

10:47

you to a few of these companies,

10:49

um and maybe at the

10:51

end we can answer the question, how

10:54

many like corporations and companies are

10:56

really being rutten or

10:59

influenced and so way by cults.

11:02

Here's where it gets crazy.

11:05

The answer ton a ton, tons

11:07

and tons like way

11:09

more than even

11:12

we would have ever suspected. So

11:14

many that we're not going to get to all of them today,

11:17

But I say we give it a go. I

11:19

mean, they're not all owned

11:22

by cults, right, Some are just inspired

11:25

by or influenced by or yeah,

11:30

um, founded by, founded by

11:32

Yes, let's get started with one that

11:34

I quite enjoy and I didn't know

11:36

anything about the stuff we're about to discuss.

11:39

A little tea that I have purchased numerous

11:42

times in my life, different types

11:44

of tea, teas that make

11:46

me get all sleepy. This a little thing called

11:49

Celestial Seasonings. Great

11:51

name, great name.

11:54

Yet the Celestial Seasonings and Sleepy

11:57

Time tea. Back in the day,

11:59

it's nineteen sixty nine, people

12:02

are still kind of high,

12:05

not upon off them all

12:07

free love, the Flower Power

12:09

movement stuff like that, and they say, hey,

12:12

maybe if we if we just put out enough

12:14

good vibes, we can change the world.

12:16

This is something also that made the FBI

12:19

and the Alphabet boys super piste

12:21

and uncomfortable and right,

12:23

and they started really doing

12:26

some some dirty work in

12:29

in the Flower Power movements.

12:31

So these hikers, these

12:33

are blests, especially one guy named mo Uh.

12:36

They're not worried about that. They

12:39

are inspired by

12:41

the natural wilds of Colorado.

12:44

And in V. Two they make this

12:46

stuff that are very well Matt Frederick

12:48

gloves Uh. Sleep it's tam

12:51

t. I don't know why it sounds so south

12:53

Park there, but sleep It's tam te And

12:56

given me the vapors of that accample. And

12:59

they became the most profitable

13:02

tea outfit in all

13:04

of North America. You can find it in

13:06

any grocery store, right, Like it's

13:08

it's all. It's kind of always in the t section.

13:11

The bear yeah yeah, yeah,

13:13

bear, and and and one of those like old timey

13:16

night caps, little dangly boys,

13:18

you know, and then like the the gown and

13:21

he's snuggled up with the good

13:23

old cuppa. Yeah. It's so

13:25

common that it's one of those things you

13:28

would where you would be more likely to

13:30

notice if it were not in your tea section,

13:33

sort of like you'd be in a grocery store and you say, hey,

13:35

why don't they have hines catch up? You know, it's

13:37

just everywhere. Yeah, it's the

13:39

sleepy Time lavender.

13:41

I think was the one they got me there. There's

13:44

one. I know, there's at least one that has a dragon on

13:46

the face of it, and I really enjoyed

13:48

that marketing. How celestial,

13:51

right, because what do you think of when you think of

13:53

tea dragons? So I

13:56

do want to say, if anyone's watched

13:58

Deadwood, the terms still lest jail is actually

14:01

used as a derogatory racial slur

14:03

for j people in

14:05

in in that era. Yeah, I'm

14:07

not saying there's any connection there. But it

14:09

is interesting that I'm sure the dragon is

14:12

on some manner of green tea. There's

14:14

some sort of you know, capitalizing

14:17

on like Eastern herbal

14:20

remedies or whatever. Interesting to raise

14:22

the component of racism

14:26

here and we'll see why. Okay,

14:28

this guy most Seagull co

14:30

founder, and he's the idea man, right,

14:32

he's he's the dude who's bringing

14:35

together the earths and making these wonderful

14:37

teas. He was inspired

14:39

by his friends and by Colorado, but

14:42

he was also inspired by

14:45

a book, a very long book.

14:48

It's two thousand pages. It's

14:50

called the Urantia Book. Uh

14:52

Urantia was first

14:54

published in n Officially,

14:57

there's a lot of speculation about

15:00

who wrote it, but it's like one of those

15:02

um in the world of prophecy. It's something that

15:04

would be called a direct speech

15:06

book. The author, whomever they are,

15:09

was divinely communicated

15:12

with right and the truth, the

15:14

metaphysical truth of reality and all

15:16

that we know was shared

15:20

to this person who wanted to illuminate

15:23

the rest of not only Earth but the

15:25

known universe. So aliens

15:28

were the ultimate authors through

15:30

somebody else. Well. Yeah, and

15:32

and in the book most of the

15:35

major characters

15:38

from the past from like the Bible, mostly

15:41

Bible stories, like everyone from Jesus to Am

15:43

and Eve. They were all allegedly aliens,

15:46

like extraterrestrials who came to

15:49

share a specific tail with

15:51

the Earth. I love it so far,

15:54

no notes a mean but

15:57

but okay, So if we look

15:59

a little bit more secular, then

16:01

you'll see the majority of folks

16:04

who have looked into this

16:06

book in particular this tone. Uh.

16:08

They say it was written by a psychiatrist

16:11

named William Sadler. Uh. Sadler

16:14

was inspired by the Seventh

16:16

Day Adventist movement. And first

16:19

off, this book might not be for you.

16:21

That's fine, you know, Twilight isn't

16:23

for everybody, me included.

16:26

But there's nothing wrong with

16:28

loving a good book, you know, even if your

16:30

friends don't like it. The thing is that critics

16:34

and people outside of the movement who have read

16:36

the book say that it has

16:38

deep roots in eugenicism and

16:41

UH eugenics parent company

16:43

white supremacy. It describes

16:46

these Aryan aliens named

16:49

Adam and Eve who are going to arrive on every

16:51

planet to purify it. To

16:54

up step is the phrase they use

16:56

to up step the civilizations

17:00

overall to a newer, better, purer

17:02

place and most

17:04

Segel. You can read

17:06

interviews or here interviews with him

17:08

where he says, initially I thought,

17:11

you know, this was out there whatever,

17:13

but as he read it, he became so inspired

17:17

that it guided how

17:19

he ran Celestial

17:22

Seasons. He he was inspired to

17:24

name the company based

17:27

on this stuff he read in this book, and

17:30

he had quotes from the book on

17:32

the products, and it was like the moral

17:34

compass for himself and his employees.

17:37

This is not us casting aspersion.

17:40

Mr Siegel has said this multiple

17:43

times. He is ted toes down. He

17:45

is on board. Uh. We even have

17:48

a quote from him where he talks

17:50

about this, and he seems very sincere.

17:52

He says, I had wanted bold, I

17:55

found bold. I wanted spiritual

17:57

adventure, and I was on the ride of

17:59

my life if I was searching for truth and

18:01

the book was loaded with it. Um.

18:05

And like you're getting to Ben, the Urantia

18:07

book really is fodder for its own

18:09

episode. Um. But we'd

18:12

like to describe it again, you

18:14

know, objectively, without imposing

18:17

any judgment of any kind on it and

18:19

misrepresenting the beliefs that are proposed

18:21

within it. Uh. So once again, let's

18:23

let's let's let's Segel himself do that job

18:26

for us. He goes on to write,

18:28

Lucifer, Satan, Meledic,

18:32

Adam, and Eve and Jesus are all

18:35

extraterrestrial beings who

18:37

have visited earth. Okay,

18:41

okay, I love me shout

18:44

out man. Is

18:46

that it's some sort of spirit

18:48

I imagine or some sort of like like like

18:50

a dibbit or something like what is it? Like

18:53

a priest of the Most High

18:55

God mentioned in the Old

18:57

Testament, and he

18:59

was revered by Abraham.

19:02

Abraham even like paid ties to

19:04

this guy, and he was both

19:06

a king and a priest. There's

19:09

a lot of speculation about this

19:11

dude, apocryphal uh and

19:13

um, I don't know. You see, you see

19:15

conversations about it in all three of the Abramaic

19:17

religions. But uh, I

19:20

I have some weird personal takes ondek

19:24

which are not for here. For some

19:26

reason, I was I was misconstruing that

19:28

with mar Duck, who is a kind

19:31

of like, uh, a

19:33

god from ancient Mesopotamia

19:36

and and also has been you know, looked at

19:38

as being something of a malevolent spirit.

19:41

Yeah, like a lot of the pre Christian

19:44

gods. That guy got kind of got

19:46

his reputation spirit and became a demon.

19:48

Right. So

19:51

so, by the way, I just wanted

19:53

to really quickly say that the dragon T is

19:56

called Tension tamer Um, so

19:58

it's it's not you know, there are some kind of Asian

20:01

imagery like like like a temple kind of thing, and

20:03

like, uh, you know this sort of classic

20:05

Chinese looking dragon, but I'm not. I didn't

20:07

want to imply there was this apparently

20:09

any kind of racial undertones

20:11

in that name. And it might not have

20:14

been conscious either, you know, just

20:16

because we're talking about passage

20:18

of of um a span of

20:20

decades. But yeah, the

20:22

strangest strangest origins

20:25

right to the most common sounding or innoculous sounding

20:27

things. This book is long, as

20:29

we said, and it's kind of like think of it

20:31

in quarters and four parts.

20:34

So the first three parts

20:37

describe, uh,

20:39

the metaphysical layout

20:41

of the universe. They don't

20:44

mention T. I should say that, uh,

20:46

they are more about reality in the universe.

20:49

And then the last fourth is

20:51

the as a

20:53

recounting of the life

20:55

of Jesus Christ in

20:58

detail. And uh,

21:01

now the book has been translated

21:03

into twenty different languages,

21:06

so if you do not um.

21:09

If you not easily read English, never

21:11

fear you will find an Arabic, Croatian,

21:14

Chinese, Spanish.

21:16

Itally you name it, you know what I mean? Yeah,

21:20

uh, it's really it's I don't

21:22

know, it's it seems like a fun read to me, um

21:25

in the way a science fiction novel would

21:27

be, because you know, it goes into a

21:29

lot of stuff. If there's like invisible angel

21:32

like preachers, the seraphim

21:34

right, it it paints a world

21:36

that is much more interesting than the

21:39

somewhat mundane place that we find

21:41

ourselves in. That that does have incredible human

21:43

beings doing all kinds of cool things and um,

21:46

you know, mind blowing animals and

21:48

plant life. But it's just it's got

21:51

this extra layer of

21:54

excitement. I think when you add that spiritual

21:57

layer thinking about what

22:00

humans really are, right, this other spiritual

22:03

side to all of us. Yeah,

22:06

in in this philosophy, um,

22:10

folks like the Jesus Christ of Christianity

22:13

are. They're

22:16

kind of like local representatives. And

22:18

there are multiple ones on multiple

22:21

planets. There are billion worlds, and

22:23

when the universe wide evolution

22:26

is complete, each of those worlds

22:28

will have ten a

22:30

hundred thousand excuse me local universes,

22:33

each of which will have ten million inhabited planets.

22:36

Earth's real name again

22:39

in this book is Urantia, and

22:41

it's number six hundred and six in

22:43

a planetary group called Satania

22:46

spelled like Satan I A and uh.

22:48

The headquarters of this is Jerusalem.

22:51

And when you die, you

22:54

actually get reincarnated on a

22:56

different planet. You go planet to planet

22:59

to planet until you ascend to Paradise.

23:02

Right. So there's a little bit of Easter religion

23:04

in here too, and

23:06

that's where you run into the final boss

23:09

of everything, known as the deity

23:11

with a capital D. And uh.

23:13

You've been carrying a little piece this

23:15

deity in you, you know how. You'll

23:17

hear other belief systems say everybody

23:20

has a piece of God in them, you know, and

23:22

that's like the soul. Well, that's

23:24

your antis answer to this, your deity

23:27

that lives inside you, kind of like a guardian

23:29

angel or a symbiot, is called a

23:31

thought adjuster. Uh,

23:34

I don't like that one sleepy time.

23:37

T. Yeah,

23:40

So Seguel does you know clearly

23:42

believe in this. He ultimately shifted

23:44

his focus from T altogether.

23:47

He retired from celestial seasonings

23:49

in two thousand two and took over

23:51

running the RANTI of Foundation,

23:55

went all in, went all

23:57

in, And at this time there haven't been

24:00

you know, allegations of a

24:03

like gross mistreatment or anything, but they're

24:05

uh. But I think a lot of people would

24:07

be surprised at the

24:10

origin story of something

24:12

that is as uh

24:15

seemingly unobjectionable

24:18

as a t company. And

24:20

we're kind of easing in. This is not the weird

24:22

one. This is not the

24:24

weird We're oddly enough. Um, We're gonna

24:27

pause for word from our sponsors, and

24:29

then we'll be back into the

24:31

world of education. Right,

24:40

and we have returned, and we are

24:42

jumping into the world of education.

24:44

We're also jumping into a world that maybe

24:47

dealing with some pretty

24:50

intense subjects like potential

24:53

abuse of children. Uh, potential

24:55

abuse like physical, mental, and

24:58

sexual abuse. So just be aware of

25:00

that as we jump into this. Uh.

25:02

Parents out there, we are talking about um

25:05

an educational let's

25:07

say, service piece of software.

25:09

So you might be very interested in it. You just probably

25:12

don't want your kids to be listening. So

25:14

let's let's talk about it. Let's talk about

25:16

education and the ASELLUS

25:19

Academy. Yeah, okay,

25:22

online learning tool made

25:24

by private company UH and

25:27

sold to thousands of school

25:29

districts across the United States.

25:31

And that's pretty common. You know, your

25:34

local school districts will always

25:37

have contracts with third party

25:39

private entities that supply stuff

25:41

a school needs to run, whether you're talking

25:44

about Cisco UH supplying

25:46

food for the cafeteria, whether

25:48

you're talking about deals with textbook

25:51

companies right like Pearson to get

25:53

all the biology textbooks out. That kind

25:55

of stuff very common. A sellers

25:58

kind of fits into that old into that rough

26:01

category. It's parent

26:03

company is something called the International

26:05

Academy of Science. Both

26:08

as Cellists and this International Academy

26:10

are owned by a fellow named Roger

26:13

Billings. You may have never heard

26:15

of. If you ask Roger. He is

26:17

a scientist, he is an entrepreneur,

26:20

and he is very much not

26:22

the leader of an offshoot

26:25

of the Mormon Church which is called the Church

26:27

of Jesus Christ in Zion.

26:30

Former members say he's very much

26:32

definitely in charge of it, and it is

26:34

a polygamist cult. And

26:38

there's a lot you should know. By the way,

26:41

Roger Billings, he's got an honorary

26:43

doctorate, I think that's what they called

26:45

it from the International Academy

26:48

of Science, which sounds so legit if

26:50

you just say all those words together. I love

26:52

science. What could go wrong? International?

26:57

And it's an academy.

27:00

Yeah, and he owns it, yeah

27:03

exactly. Oh and they developed

27:05

this thing called Excelis. Yeah,

27:08

so he's been He

27:10

and his organizations have been

27:13

accused of some

27:16

pretty nasty stuff, forcibly separating

27:19

families, abusing

27:22

children in horrific

27:24

ways, and forcing

27:26

people to conduct

27:28

unpaid labor, so essentially enslaving

27:31

people, and violently retaliating

27:34

with any dissent or criticism.

27:37

They've got three

27:39

big communities there, Missouri, and

27:42

one of them, how James Bond is this

27:44

one of them is an underground cavern

27:46

system. The guy has an underground

27:49

cave where people think he does

27:51

the majority of running his companies, including

27:53

a cellist one of Limestone.

27:56

Yeah right, uh, people

27:59

in their sleep in bunkers.

28:02

Basically they work for free. And

28:04

Billings has been accused of

28:07

vigilantly scrolling

28:09

through the Internet to scrub it of

28:12

any information that connects him to Zion

28:15

the Um religious

28:17

sect and everybody

28:19

again like again, he says, no

28:21

affiliate, he doesn't lead it or whatever. But

28:25

on the other side, everybody else

28:28

from former members of the organization

28:30

to experts on cults say

28:32

yes, he still leads

28:34

it, and the various objection

28:37

will practices continue

28:39

today? This? Uh, this comes

28:41

out. A lot of it came out, Um, came

28:44

to a public light due to some stuff

28:46

that went down with him in Hawaii's education system.

28:49

Is this similar? Is this in any way related

28:51

to you know, being a Zionist?

28:53

You know he uses the term gets thrown around a lot these

28:55

days, and I think a lot of people don't know what it means. I think

28:57

it's used somewhat loosely and offensively

29:00

at times. Do I would say, just

29:02

from what I've read, No, doesn't have anything

29:04

to do with Zionism. Um,

29:06

it's it's very different and it's very

29:09

weird. One of the some of those allegations

29:11

that the criticism that came up

29:13

through Hawaii's education system because it

29:16

was widely accepted in Hawaii. A lot

29:18

of that came from allegations made by one

29:20

of Billing's children. And

29:22

there's a blog post you can find. Uh.

29:25

The original one got deleted and then the

29:27

archive dot org backup got

29:29

deleted, but then it got reposted again

29:31

and you can still find it. It's

29:33

some pretty serious allegations, um,

29:36

and stuff that we talked about on this show a lot

29:38

when it comes to how a cult leader

29:41

controls human beings and what they do.

29:43

But it goes pretty in depth

29:46

on some things, just practices

29:49

of making sure that

29:53

the person who's running the show gets

29:55

to kind of be with whoever they want to

29:57

be with, and everybody else kind

29:59

of has to tow a line when it comes

30:01

to relationships, when it comes to you

30:03

know, turning into an adult and

30:05

the procedures that go down that are not

30:07

good. Yeah,

30:10

and that's I mean, that's really common. That's

30:12

one of the more toxic behaviors of cultic

30:14

organizations. Right. Please do check

30:17

out our video. It's years old

30:19

now, but it holds up like how to start

30:21

a cult, how to run it? Um, you

30:23

will you will see

30:25

that a lot of these organisms, Like just

30:27

how fascism can't really be defined

30:30

by singular ideology and must

30:32

be defined by its tactics. Cultic

30:34

organizations are best defined by their

30:37

tactics, their practices. What

30:39

they do uh to eliminate

30:41

the personalities and independence of

30:43

their followers, right and and further

30:46

subsume their egos and their agency

30:49

into that of the of the leader. Billings

30:53

does seem to be doing this um

30:55

at least according to his critics. And again all

30:57

the survivors, there's no one who's come out of

30:59

this. Culton said, hey, it was great. It

31:01

was just the scheduling that got me because I

31:03

go bowling on Tuesdays. Nothing

31:05

like that. It's it's much more sinister.

31:08

And the Hawaii thing actually

31:10

came out because Wall Street Journal ran

31:13

a piece on this too. Uh, they had

31:16

the parents and teachers and why he

31:18

said, this program, they're

31:21

just there a cellist learning accelerator

31:24

had a lot of sexist and

31:26

racist content in it that was being

31:28

taught to children, so they

31:30

weren't like they learned

31:33

of the cultic connection after

31:36

they said, what are

31:38

you teaching our children? You

31:40

know, it's pretty pretty

31:42

weird weird stuff. Ultimately,

31:45

it strikes me as just um,

31:48

maybe amateurly done, like some of the animation

31:51

that's I've seen some videos of the animation

31:53

that's in there, of the voiceover

31:55

work, just the way it's built.

31:58

It just feels like wasn't

32:00

made by professionals. And that's you

32:02

know, no, I don't know who you know, I don't know

32:04

the individuals who actually made those things, who

32:06

recorded those things and animated them. I

32:09

just know that it feels like

32:11

it was kind of thrown together. Um,

32:14

and maybe there wasn't a lot of oversight when

32:17

it came to some of the content. That's what it feels

32:19

to me. But it doesn't feel like it's trying

32:21

to indoctrinate anyone like at all.

32:23

I would not I would not characterize it as

32:26

that agreed, right, Um.

32:28

One of I mean, for instance, one of the big

32:30

things in in the Hawaii

32:33

case was the way the

32:35

history of Hawaii was being

32:37

presented, like a cellist

32:41

was telling children in the islands were discovered

32:43

by Europeans in seventeen seventy

32:45

eight. Anybody who

32:48

has you know, who has descended

32:51

from the people of Hawaii

32:54

knows that folks were living there thousands

32:56

of thousands years before that, right.

32:59

So it's um, they got accusations

33:01

of whitewashing, right. And if

33:04

you've ever visited Hawaii, if you have family

33:06

there, if you yourself or Hawaiian, you

33:08

know that is an incredibly, that

33:11

is a fundamental part of Hawaiian identity,

33:14

the true story of of

33:16

Hawaiian past. So to sort

33:18

of whitewash it, it's a very

33:21

very sensitive. Not a good look. Um,

33:23

But yeah, I think you make an excellent, very fair

33:25

point, Matt, that there was not open

33:27

indoctrination. People were just objecting

33:30

to using

33:32

taxpayer dollars for this, and then

33:34

they found out about the cult, so it

33:37

was very much a butt weight. There's more

33:39

moments, and if you want to read

33:41

the allegations that were put forward by Aaron

33:44

Billings, a child of Roger Billings,

33:46

you can just search Aaron Billings

33:49

blog and hopefully you can find

33:51

it. We found it on Google Photos

33:54

of all things, because someone made

33:56

them public and put it back up online

33:58

right again. People

34:00

are you're you're gonna see that. There's

34:02

a cycle of stuff about this place getting

34:05

posted and then removed and then

34:07

reposted. There's also a great,

34:10

uh, a great investigation

34:12

by Sarah Emerson and Matthew Giles

34:15

writing for one zeros.

34:18

Just through their names and one zero

34:21

spelled written out and you will

34:23

you'll find it. And that might be it might be an episode

34:26

of its own. Um, it might be an

34:28

episode that finally lands us and papers

34:30

of note like the Washington Times,

34:33

not to be confused with the Washington Post. He

34:35

has we've used the Washington Types as a source

34:38

before. Yeah, if

34:40

they are, because they're they're conservative

34:44

paper out of d C. And

34:46

they have an emphasis on US politics.

34:48

So sometimes so in the past, I

34:50

can't remember which stories it was specifically,

34:53

we were looking into, I think some

34:55

controversies with some US politicians,

34:58

and they had some pretty good report on this. I

35:00

mean it was definitely slanted. They definitely

35:03

have you know, their agenda

35:05

or their horse in the race, but they had some

35:07

good reporting and they

35:09

have been considered a paper of note.

35:12

But they're they're pretty clear um

35:15

in terms of their focus and

35:17

there the way they framed perspectives

35:19

right, like these are not the folks who are going to be warning

35:21

about the dangers of climate change so

35:23

much as the folks will be saying climate

35:26

change that's a little over

35:29

hyped. It's that kind of paper. Uh.

35:32

It was also founded by the Unification

35:34

Church. That sounds familiar.

35:36

What is that moon Moon

35:39

Uh. It is an organization that does not

35:41

like being called a cult one.

35:43

Uh. It is not based in the

35:46

US. It is based in

35:48

Korea. It

35:50

was founded by a guy named Son Young

35:53

Moon in ninety four.

35:56

The Moonies. The Moonies

35:59

owned the Washing ten times. The movie

36:01

It's kind of like a sort of a dated

36:03

organization. You hear you hear it like referenced

36:06

in like eighties movies a lot, but you

36:08

don't really hear it come up much. You know these

36:11

days, Am I right? They're

36:13

they're still active, but yeah, they're not in pop

36:15

culture as much as they definitely

36:17

were. Like you don't you know in the

36:20

days of Carson you would hear moonies

36:22

and had Krishna's referenced right

36:24

often in the same jokes for like

36:27

passing out pamphlets at the airport and stuff

36:29

stuff like that. And uh, this

36:32

this group is probably during that time too, and

36:34

there were more in the zeitgeist. They were best known

36:37

for mass arranged

36:39

marriages and you can see

36:41

photos like tons

36:44

and tons, like more than a hundred couples

36:46

getting married at once. Uh.

36:49

This is also a you

36:51

could call it new religious movement if you

36:53

don't want to use the word culture sect. Uh.

36:56

This is what's called a messiah

36:59

claimant movement, which is the

37:01

more academic way of saying the

37:03

purse the dude or duds

37:06

the person in charge thinks

37:08

that they are the Messiah,

37:11

usually the second Coming of Christ in some

37:13

in some variety also

37:15

just for the record. I feel like dude is a unisex

37:18

a unisex term here in American

37:20

English. Yeah, I mean, well, you

37:23

know, the joke used to be dude and do dat dudes

37:25

and du dads, But now due ad is like diminutive

37:28

and kind of offensive. So I think I think we can always

37:30

say do you know, yeah, I

37:32

think it's even my kid confirms that

37:34

she believes it's non gendered. But what about

37:36

bros Bro. It

37:38

depends on how you use it in the context. He does

37:41

it really does a lot of it has to do with Conda. Can

37:43

I say, really Coolly? You know my favorite Messiah

37:45

is I've been digging back

37:47

into some some Stephen King's short stories.

37:50

Remember he who walks behind the rose Yeah,

37:53

yeah, yeah, adapted the Children in the Corn

37:56

That that's the character that the I

37:58

mean the story was that a chy corps,

38:00

but he walks by the roses the

38:02

the local can talk.

38:05

I think, you

38:07

know, weirdo, you know demon

38:09

Messiah that these like

38:11

feral uh fundamentalist

38:14

children worship being sacrifice tourists

38:17

too. Yeah this, oh

38:19

it's canto. Sorry, can talk in the

38:21

Stephen King universe is a big god.

38:23

I think canto is like a smaller. Well,

38:26

we'll figure it out. It's all cause a wheel.

38:28

Uh yeah, no, I love that stuff

38:31

too. Like it's it's strange

38:33

with this because we see that colts

38:37

often do kind of

38:39

try to portray their leader

38:42

or their figurehead at least as divinely

38:45

inspired and possessed of

38:48

supernatural abilities. And

38:50

and the the Unification Church,

38:53

especially during Moon's lifetime, was

38:55

very much in step with that.

38:58

He was based in the Christian by bole originally,

39:01

but then you know, kind of did his own

39:03

thing very fleet, went back, go

39:06

your own way when you start a cult. Absolutely,

39:08

So this this isn't uh, this

39:10

isn't a story the Washington

39:13

Times will tell you very

39:16

often, you know, because just

39:18

like just like how Uni

39:20

Lever would rather you think Ben and Jerry's

39:23

is its own thing. You know. The key

39:25

in journalism. The

39:27

ideal in journalism is that something should

39:29

be relatively independent like Pro

39:32

Publica. Look at all the excellent work they do.

39:34

But the reality is a lot of these papers

39:37

of note can be heavily influenced

39:39

by three big things. One,

39:42

the political ideas and other

39:45

investments of their owners shout

39:47

out to the hearst enterprise to

39:49

uh, the economic heft of their

39:51

advertisers. That's a huge thing. And

39:54

then of course three, the one that people

39:56

don't like to talk about, even in

39:58

the States, were freedom of press is a big

40:00

thing. Uh, the FBI C I A. I'll

40:02

they have this network of contacts

40:05

where they go to the editors, or they go to the shareholder,

40:08

they go to the board and they say,

40:11

Okay, you guys are a free

40:13

press, so you're totally it's

40:15

we'd rather you not report some things,

40:18

but if you must, this is the way

40:20

you're going to talk about them. And they

40:22

do it. Well, Um,

40:24

just quickly, let's talk about how this organization,

40:28

this kind of strange organization, ended up

40:30

creating a right wing

40:32

newspaper. Well, there were

40:34

missionaries, the Moonies or moon

40:37

himself sent to the United States

40:40

back in those times, the nineties

40:42

sixties, when mines were a little malleable

40:45

in these ways at least over here.

40:47

Uh, and they established a pretty strong

40:50

following in the US. And then they

40:52

they've moved into basically

40:54

I guess it's news. I guess it's more of a media

40:56

organization right then, where they're

40:58

they're doing all kinds of stuff, but mostly

41:01

propaganda for themselves. Right,

41:04

Yeah, Yeah, they want

41:07

to have a megaphone, They

41:09

want to have allowed speaker right in the

41:11

field of public discourse. They've

41:13

been pretty successful to just through The Times

41:15

for instance. As of last year, the

41:17

paper at a daily circulation of fifty

41:20

people are reading it, you know, and

41:22

um, they can become

41:25

a thought leader in this space, especially with their

41:27

demographic. But still you

41:29

have to ask yourself, Okay,

41:32

is this just a money making endeavor?

41:35

Is this just a financial decision

41:37

to you know, support the continuation

41:40

of the organization, which happens

41:42

all the time, or is this

41:44

a way for the message

41:47

to spread? Right? What's the end goal?

41:49

Is it to make money or is it to grow

41:51

the organization or is it

41:53

both? Um, that's

41:55

that's the concern, especially when you're talking about

41:58

news. Right, Willed Washington

42:00

Times ever report a

42:03

scandal in their parent organization?

42:07

Maybe not? Maybe not? And

42:10

with that we're going to pause.

42:12

These are still not the weirdest ones,

42:15

by the way, folks. These are just kind of obstucating,

42:18

uh, their ultimate owners. But after

42:20

a word from our sponsor, we're

42:22

gonna go to the dinner table.

42:25

Yeah, maybe your grandmother's dinner table and

42:27

the deli, yeah,

42:29

and the deli we're

42:37

back. Okay, Onita, New

42:39

York. This one's for you. If

42:41

you were from this area, you

42:43

already know what we're going to talk about.

42:46

But tell yourself it's because you have psychic

42:48

powers instead of you know,

42:50

knowing one of the

42:52

biggest stories to come out of that

42:55

part of the US. Onita Silverware

42:58

they make cutlery, knives, forks,

43:00

spoons. You've probably seen

43:03

sports, maybe sports and I don't know class.

43:08

Yeah, they're they're upscale, but they're kind of

43:10

stayed, you know what I mean, Like maybe

43:13

like those serrated knives that come in kind of a

43:15

wooden case, you know, uh,

43:17

set that you see in like really fancy

43:20

um table spread, photo, photography

43:22

for magazines, a lot of stuff like that. Yeah,

43:25

And you can go to their website

43:27

which is just Onita dot com and you can

43:30

see any number of stuff

43:32

they make, like just just for a quick

43:34

snapshot. You know. They got different

43:36

levels of sets

43:38

you can buy. They're Michelangelo

43:41

fifty three piece flatwear set. Uh

43:45

is apparently supposed to be six hundred something dollars

43:47

and now it's three hundred just in

43:49

time for the holidays. Uh

43:53

Yeah, silverware currently

43:55

in my house. Thank

43:59

you for the support. Yeah,

44:01

twenty piece set though of a fine

44:04

flatwear service for four for a

44:06

mere one and fifty four dollars. That's on the

44:08

lower end. Know, yeah, they've they've

44:10

they've got something for everybody in the market,

44:13

right, that's their idea. And you

44:15

know, sometimes the silverware

44:17

sets are wedding gifts, right,

44:20

this is the kind of thing you might see on a wedding registry.

44:23

Uh. They're very well established there

44:26

everywhere. But I would say

44:28

they're nice. They're like, as you said, Matt, they

44:31

can be upscale. It's kind of like a

44:33

little run in the mill, a bit stayed

44:35

nowadays. It's it's nice the way

44:37

like a a Lincoln

44:40

car might be, right, you say, Okay,

44:42

this is cool, but it might be a little bit of an

44:44

older crowd, right, maybe

44:46

more of a grandmother Lee demographic,

44:49

you know. Yeah, for surely they also have like you know, serving

44:51

sets and things like that, a little bit more

44:54

old school, right. And I was even what I

44:56

was saying earlier was was not even quite

44:58

on the mark those serrated And I didn't eve and sell

45:00

stake knives really. They mainly just sell your

45:02

traditional kind of table set

45:05

and stuff. Yeah, And they have you

45:07

know, knife sets, and and

45:10

they've they've expanded because they've been around

45:12

for so long. Uh. They were actually

45:14

founded as a result of a crisis,

45:17

because when the

45:19

folks who would end up creating this silverware

45:22

company got together, they were not

45:24

concerned with the state of cutlery

45:26

in the United States. They were

45:29

way more into radicalizing

45:33

fundamental opinions

45:36

about relationships. Starch

45:38

a guy named John Humphrey Noise. Sadly

45:41

that's noise in oh y e

45:43

s. I think Noise would be a cool last name,

45:46

just like sound. But he

45:48

created this group, a commune

45:51

called the Oneita Community.

45:53

This is probably its own episode.

45:55

May have did something like this in ridiculous history. The

45:57

group never got really big at

46:00

its height. We're talking around

46:02

three people, and they

46:04

were scandalous in their day

46:07

because they practiced what

46:10

they called complex

46:12

marriage. Uh. Noise

46:14

also point free

46:16

love. Yeah. As I say, complex marriage,

46:19

sounds like a bit of a diplomatic

46:21

term for something else. Yeah,

46:23

right, it sounds like something the Uh like

46:26

a royal biographer who would

46:28

be afraid of pissing off the crown. He

46:30

would say it was often noted

46:34

that the king and his bride had a complex

46:36

marriage. Yeah, it's like

46:38

that Facebook status. It's complicated. Oh

46:41

yeah, so complex marriage

46:44

is the idea that love is

46:46

great and you shouldn't restrict

46:48

your affection to just one

46:50

person, you know, society he's

46:52

got all these rules. Let's do free

46:55

love, you know. Uh. And

46:57

that meant that anyone could

47:00

have a sexual relationship with

47:02

any other consenting person.

47:05

In fact, monogamy was frowned

47:07

upon. Monogamy was seen as kind

47:09

of like selfish and self limiting. Uh.

47:12

But despite saying they were going to fight against

47:14

the rules of the establishment, they

47:17

they didn't go super

47:20

free. Actually they created

47:22

their own system, a

47:24

very complex and highly enforced

47:26

rules. Uh. And it was in

47:29

full disclosure. It would be considered incredibly

47:32

predatory and abusive today. If

47:34

you're an adolescent boy, you

47:36

were told to engage in sexual

47:39

behavior with women over forty

47:41

who function as mentors to you, so

47:44

they would teach you religious principles, who

47:46

would also initiate you into the world of

47:48

sex. And the

47:50

reason the women were supposed to be over forty is

47:52

because, in John Humphrey Noise's

47:55

opinion, that minimize

47:57

the chance of the relationship resulting

47:59

in pregnancy. And then

48:02

older men were doing

48:04

the same thing with adolescent females, and

48:07

as the head Haunt show noises,

48:10

the one who often declared who could sleep with

48:12

whom? Yeah, that's also a

48:15

hallmark of the cult leader, isn't it. Mm

48:17

hmmm. So, as we see, there's this

48:20

emphasis on controlling not

48:23

just romance, but controlling procreation.

48:26

Right, So they

48:28

practice a couple of different

48:31

methods. You may have heard the phrase coitus interrupt

48:34

us a k. The pullout method before

48:36

right any number of times um

48:39

as a lot of people can ensure you from personal experience,

48:42

that is not effective

48:44

method. But they also practice

48:46

something that I think stood out to us called

48:49

coitas reservist coitas

48:51

reservatis weird Harry Potter

48:53

spell. So it sounds like expect

48:58

rowneus coite just interrupt

49:00

this. That's

49:03

a really fun thing to yell out though in that

49:05

moment, Oh, in that moment

49:08

exactly. Yeah,

49:13

try to cast a list.

49:17

But but so this reservotist

49:20

idea was it

49:23

was kind of based on

49:25

these older religious or

49:27

spiritual beliefs. I would I would say

49:29

that m dude's ejaculation,

49:32

a man's ejaculation was part

49:36

of his virility, right, and

49:38

so by reserving that, by

49:41

not actually reaching

49:44

ejaculation. The

49:47

the person who practiced this, uh

49:51

practice, this would stay

49:55

even more virile. Yeah.

49:57

This is like the same concept as like tan

49:59

tric sex or

50:01

whatever in the Eastern some Eastern

50:03

cultures.

50:07

Yes, of course. Yeah, the

50:09

idea that by withholding or

50:11

or holding back, I guess you are in

50:13

fact increasing your sexual

50:16

prowess and strength. Yeah,

50:19

so they were. They were into

50:21

that. They had a lot of rules. Let's say, you do

50:24

you do want to have a child, right,

50:26

and you met someone you just know it's the perfect match.

50:28

Well, then you and your partner have to go

50:31

to a committee. They loved committees

50:33

in this community. You have to apply for permission.

50:35

It was a whole thing. They also

50:38

had these mutual criticism

50:40

meetings, which were just like they

50:42

sound, another effective

50:44

way of controlling the minds of cult

50:47

members. Uh so you might say,

50:49

hey, guys, you're going into a lot of detail

50:51

about this and so far has nothing to do with

50:53

silverware. Right. It

50:56

wasn't until the start of the Civil War that

51:00

the group realized they were in hot

51:02

water. This is all before the Civil

51:04

War. This all happened. Yes,

51:07

yes, uh so they had

51:09

a lot of members. But when you join the

51:12

organization, you give up the vast majority

51:14

of your of your personal property,

51:16

right, all but the basics and

51:19

another hallmark of a cult. Absolutely,

51:21

And they had these members,

51:24

but they had a

51:27

huge financial problem. They didn't have a lot of cash.

51:29

People had already given up their stuff, so they

51:32

didn't have, you know, necessarily rich

51:34

benefactors they could be brainwashed

51:36

into footing the bill. So they

51:38

said, we're gonna move as a unit. We're

51:40

gonna exercise the power of

51:42

the commune. Uh. They tried to grow

51:44

and sell fruit, but they were an upstate

51:47

New York and the harsh winters made that difficult,

51:50

so they tried out some other things. They

51:52

made leather bags, Uh, they

51:54

made different kinds of sort of

51:56

fine fabrics, and then because

51:58

the fur trade was really big, they made

52:00

metal traps. No, it

52:03

goes without saying that the

52:05

the people of the community often weren't

52:07

going to wear this finery themselves.

52:10

Right, Just like how a lot of

52:13

a lot of the regions of the world that produced

52:15

the best coffee, the folks who actually

52:17

work on those finka's or plantations, they

52:21

rarely, if ever get to taste the coffee

52:24

that they're growing. Same thing with chocolate. Uh,

52:26

so they're kind of in a situation like that. Anyway,

52:28

it's eighteen seventy seven. This

52:31

stuff is helping him get by, but it's not really working

52:33

out. And the communes and danger

52:36

and there's a guy who was a member of the commune,

52:38

Robert Whyland Smith. I want to say. He's

52:40

sitting on this river bank while

52:43

in away the day and

52:46

before while he meant partying hard, he's

52:48

just in a state arrest and more like

52:50

the scarecrow. While in a way the hour is consulting

52:52

with the flowers just so, and

52:55

he sees a silverware factory

52:57

nearby and he literally thinks,

52:59

hey, a we're on the same

53:01

river. I thought we could make silverware.

53:04

You know, we already make metal traps, we work

53:07

with metal. Why not? And

53:10

shortly thereafter Anita

53:12

is full time into the silverware business

53:15

and they're reaching a lot of success. But

53:18

with their financial success came

53:21

social unrest. The

53:23

community collapsed because

53:26

this was a controversial approach to romance.

53:29

Uh. And you know, not to

53:31

mention his child abuse. Uh.

53:34

Local authorities started passing laws

53:36

that explicitly banned the

53:38

Anita Communes approach

53:41

to relationships. Well,

53:43

adultery was a crime, right,

53:46

Yeah, so literally any of

53:48

the activities outside of their marriage

53:50

and with anyone in that community would have they

53:53

could have gotten some in some

53:55

serious trouble. Yeah.

53:58

Yeah,

54:00

here's here's the

54:02

The leader skips town. He's

54:05

already not doing well health wise, who's actually

54:08

deaf by this time. He just leaves,

54:11

he ghost and he moves to Canada. Former

54:13

members know something's

54:15

in the wind. They know the thing is starting to things

54:18

that are starting to fall apart. The center

54:20

cannot hold you know, Falcon's purning, and a guy

54:22

or and so on, and uh, they

54:25

say, okay, let's just have more

54:28

traditional relationships. And so they partner

54:30

up and they leave and they you know, start their

54:32

own lives outside of this. Ultimately

54:35

afterward people

54:37

decide, hey, we're going to start a corporation

54:40

for the silverware which is still doing gangbusters.

54:43

We're not a commune anymore. We're a silverware

54:45

company. And so they

54:48

they say, okay, let's see, let's figure

54:50

out shares of this corporation. Uh,

54:53

and it will be based on how much you originally

54:55

contributed to the community

54:57

when you joined and gave up all your money

54:59

and possessions, and then how

55:02

hard you've worked at

55:04

the silverware interest while

55:06

you were a member, and in eighteen

55:08

eighty Onita Community Limited

55:11

was born. In all fairness, right

55:13

now, if you go on the website, what you'll see is

55:16

the company now has absolutely

55:19

nothing to do with the practices

55:21

of the commune. How hard you worked?

55:24

Is that based on a specific metric

55:26

of productivity or is that up

55:28

to the bosses to

55:30

determine. It's a little tough, because

55:33

it's a good question. It's a little tough because a

55:35

lot of folks were only working just a few hours

55:37

a day, So you would have

55:40

to without getting two into

55:42

the nuts and bolts, uh, you would have

55:44

to assume that they

55:46

had a little bit of corruption or a little

55:48

bit of nepotism. I'm thinking that

55:51

the shares were probably more predicated,

55:54

at least in most cases, on how much money somebody

55:56

bought him when they joined nice.

55:58

It's like scientology role. You

56:01

know. You should be noted that when they were when

56:04

the factory was up and running early on, the

56:06

actual community members wouldn't be the ones

56:09

working in the factory at least at most times,

56:11

it would be hired help they came

56:13

through and was actually running all the stuff.

56:17

So it's interesting to think about. I wonder how much ownership

56:20

everybody actually had, or you know, how much hard

56:23

work everybody actually put in. It's interesting

56:27

and this again maybe uh

56:30

maybe a story that we've joined later.

56:33

We do have to again note like unlike

56:35

the Washington Times, unlike a couple

56:37

of other companies are in conversation today, Anita

56:40

by itself just has its origins in

56:43

a religious sect. It is no longer

56:45

doing that today. But

56:48

let's say, let's go to something different. Since we're already

56:50

at a at a dinner table or

56:53

a lunch table, and we're already met a you know,

56:55

thinking of cutlery, Uh,

56:58

why don't we think about sandwiches? Who does and

57:00

love a good deli? Ever been

57:02

to the Yellow Deli website? We mentioned

57:04

this briefly in a in a past conversation.

57:07

Reminds me of the Hello Deli, which

57:09

is next to where the ten where the

57:11

the Late Show David Letterman was shot, and he

57:13

would always go down there and didn get you know,

57:16

mess with the guys at the Hello Deli. This

57:18

is not that the Yellow Deli. Um,

57:21

yeah, it's it just kind of, you know, on first

57:23

glance, seems like sort of a hippie themed

57:27

delicatessen vibe Um,

57:29

which wouldn't be too far off

57:31

if you read there about us section on their website,

57:34

which reads as follows, one day

57:36

in nineteen seventy two, a few zealous

57:38

people have the thought they could open a little

57:40

place where people could come and sit down,

57:43

not feel rushed to leave. People could

57:45

ask questions if they wanted to, and could

57:47

find a little refuge from the pressures

57:49

of life. Well, sometimes

57:52

it is hard to even find someone to talk

57:54

to about our troubles being believers,

57:57

these young zella's does that word again?

57:59

Uh? Knew that there really are

58:01

answers to the troubles of many.

58:04

Wait, this doesn't sound what This isn't a deli.

58:06

This is a deli talk. But what

58:08

do they do? They have boar's head, do they have their own other

58:10

proprietary types of meats? It's

58:13

yellow deli talk. Yeah

58:15

they are. I like that they put this

58:17

on their on their

58:19

website because what they're saying is they're acknowledging,

58:22

yes we are we are

58:24

a deli, but we are a

58:27

community, a commune right of people united

58:29

by the same belief. And they even address

58:32

how the employees lived together

58:34

in addition to working together, and

58:36

it goes into some detail on

58:39

the scriptural basis of

58:41

their beliefs. Because

58:43

the Yellow Deli was established by

58:45

the leaders of a religious sect

58:48

called the Twelve Tribes.

58:51

Twelve Tribes comes out of an earlier thing

58:53

called the Jesus Movement, which

58:55

was very focused on the Book of Acts

58:59

and the Twelve Tribes. Vibes says,

59:01

Look, we're gonna try to accelerate

59:04

the return of the Messiah, or I should

59:06

say, we're gonna hopefully

59:08

make the return of the Messiah more welcoming

59:12

by recreating the twelve ancient

59:14

tribes of Israel. How

59:16

do you recreate that? He had a lot

59:18

of locations. Yeah, there's

59:22

one in Brunswick, Georgia. There's one,

59:25

I think. Yeah, you don't see Savanna.

59:28

I see, Chattanooga is real close

59:30

to here. Chattanyuga is the one I've seen before

59:32

him. Yeah, but then there then they got some in Argentina

59:35

as one in Australia, Brazil, British

59:37

Columbia. Um, let's see

59:40

Manitoba, lots in Canada, there's

59:42

one in Japan. They've got too,

59:45

in Spain and in quite a few, you know,

59:47

just one in the United Kingdom in Honiton,

59:50

in the UK wherever the hell that is. Uh,

59:52

and then you know tons and not tons

59:54

about you know ten or twelve or so in the in the US.

59:57

Yeah. As of just a couple of

59:59

years ago, the Twelve Tribes the

1:00:02

movement had about three

1:00:05

thousand members acknowledged in

1:00:07

fifty different communities around

1:00:09

the world. Uh.

1:00:12

They have been under fire, unfortunately

1:00:15

for some things, including allegations

1:00:18

that they have mistreated children, not

1:00:20

the way the Anita Commune did, but more

1:00:23

by um practicing

1:00:25

a spare of the rod spoiled the child approach

1:00:28

to education and discipline. There

1:00:31

have been accusations of daily beatings, of

1:00:33

forced labor unpaid in factories,

1:00:36

and they respond to this on their

1:00:39

about page UM

1:00:42

the way that sounds pretty nice, saying sadly,

1:00:45

fear of evil or perverse behavior going

1:00:47

on among us has caused some to circulate

1:00:49

unfounded rumors about us, thinking

1:00:52

we must have bad motives. We hope

1:00:54

that through having an open and hospitable place

1:00:56

like our Yellow Deli, people will

1:00:58

be able to see that are not really strange

1:01:01

and scary, but just friendly folks

1:01:03

who love God and our neighbors.

1:01:05

We're just friendly and scary. It's strange,

1:01:08

not strange at all. Uh, They've

1:01:10

got some cute little little logos

1:01:13

at the bottom of their page. Two, they've got one

1:01:15

that's like two sheep holding

1:01:18

hands and the arms trying to That's kind of weird, that's

1:01:20

sheep, given the reputation of

1:01:22

sheep as animals, you know, being like you

1:01:25

know, blind followers or whatever. And then

1:01:27

they've got another one that's like a

1:01:29

rocking chair with an acoustic guitar and a

1:01:31

mandolin draped over it, and

1:01:33

like an old pair of boots, worn

1:01:36

laced boots at the bottom of it. Very it is

1:01:39

very homey um. And they

1:01:41

emphasize that their sandwiches are

1:01:43

are freshly hot steamed sandwiches,

1:01:45

which is an old school style of

1:01:48

of of Delhi service.

1:01:51

And the menu really has that sixties

1:01:53

seventies aesthetic vibe.

1:01:57

I do want to say, also, you know what, this reminds me of

1:02:00

some of some similar outfits

1:02:02

here in Atlanta, Like I

1:02:05

have a long time been a customer

1:02:07

of a place called Soul Vegetarian, which

1:02:10

got which has two outfits

1:02:12

here that I remember in

1:02:14

in our fair metropolis. And

1:02:17

Soul Vegetarian is

1:02:20

an extension of the

1:02:22

Hebrew Israelites. You

1:02:25

guys, have you guys been to soul Vegetarian? I

1:02:27

have, I would have heard of it, and I've heard actually quite good things

1:02:29

about it. There are several

1:02:32

um vegetarian vegan restaurants in

1:02:34

this city that have an interesting

1:02:36

connection to a very small religious

1:02:38

movement. Yes, yeah, that's

1:02:40

true. And um this

1:02:42

uh soul vegetarian.

1:02:46

They are vegan comfort

1:02:49

food basically were in Virginia

1:02:51

Highlands, right, there's one there, there's one

1:02:53

on the west side, and they're out of the Hebrew

1:02:56

Israelite community of

1:02:59

Jeru s that's what it's called. There

1:03:02

is a very sectarian UM

1:03:05

church in Augusta where I'm

1:03:08

from, called the International House of

1:03:10

Prayer for All People. Um,

1:03:12

it is a Christian you

1:03:14

know, themed the wrong word, but

1:03:16

it is is a Christian sect. But but there's a

1:03:19

leader and they there's all this.

1:03:21

They are all these like portraits of this guy

1:03:23

and he got really long nails. He doesn't

1:03:25

cut his nails. And apparently

1:03:28

there's I don't know, I haven't confirmed this, but like

1:03:30

they they'll wash his feet

1:03:32

and bottle the water, uh

1:03:35

and and sell the foot water.

1:03:37

But here's the thing. It has the

1:03:39

most incredible soul food

1:03:42

cafe. That's open to the public connected

1:03:44

to it with the best corn bread

1:03:46

and like collars and just really really

1:03:49

amazing Southern food. And it's

1:03:51

obviously a gateway in, you

1:03:53

know, for for the public at large. You

1:03:55

know, you go in wanting to get some shrimp

1:03:58

and grits, and maybe he leaves slightly

1:04:00

indoctrinated. Checkers was right,

1:04:02

you gotta eat you You

1:04:04

get people through those appeals to

1:04:07

universal needs and commonalities.

1:04:09

I do want to go back and just say real quick, yeah,

1:04:11

I um, there have been multiple

1:04:15

accusations of anti Semitism

1:04:18

on the on the Black Hebrew Israelite

1:04:20

community. Uh, when I've

1:04:22

been there, it's been perfectly fine.

1:04:24

As a matter of fact, my only complaint is

1:04:27

that is

1:04:29

that there's not ice in the water. You know, on

1:04:33

the list of problems, I understand it's

1:04:35

a very low priority. I've just said it gets

1:04:37

hot here in the summer. But that's

1:04:39

so that's interesting because in justin

1:04:42

talking about Yellow Delli, we have already

1:04:44

found two examples, We've

1:04:46

had personal experience with two examples of

1:04:49

other the other organizations

1:04:51

they're doing something very similar. This

1:04:53

shows you how common it

1:04:56

can be for a religious sect

1:04:58

to reach out to people in that

1:05:00

way or to support themselves. Now, there's

1:05:03

so many we didn't get to. We Um talked

1:05:05

about Narconon previously, will

1:05:07

probably save that for a part two.

1:05:10

Uh. And in just a few examples

1:05:12

we've explored today, we've

1:05:15

seen to have some commonalities that should be

1:05:17

addressed. First, is

1:05:19

there anything wrong with a company

1:05:21

being found out on spiritual and religious principles?

1:05:23

No, it's fine. Millions

1:05:26

of groups across the world do this every

1:05:29

day, a ton of them, I would even

1:05:31

say the majority probably completely

1:05:33

above board. And you can't discriminate

1:05:37

against anyone for their personal beliefs,

1:05:39

unless again they're harming

1:05:41

someone else or they're trying to force those beliefs

1:05:44

on you. Then just don't don't mess

1:05:46

with them. It's not worth it. And then secondly,

1:05:49

you know what I was thinking, a

1:05:52

lot of the folks who were employees with these

1:05:54

companies, especially the bigger ones, it's

1:05:58

highly likely they're not member of

1:06:00

an organization, and they might not even

1:06:03

know about the affiliation or

1:06:05

the origin story. But one

1:06:07

thing that's for sure is there are a lot of companies

1:06:09

like this out here, and in many cases,

1:06:11

their true affiliations right

1:06:13

now remain the stuff they don't want

1:06:15

you to know. Also, godn't

1:06:18

want a sandwich now about you guys, Yeah, I'm

1:06:20

hungry. I don't know if you guys have

1:06:22

been through LaGuardia Airport

1:06:25

recently, but like for a while, it was just this endless

1:06:27

um construction, Like it seems

1:06:30

suspicious how long that play has been in a construction.

1:06:32

But they finally finished Terminal C, and

1:06:35

they've got like some legit New

1:06:37

York food options there now.

1:06:39

And there's this one place that's like a like

1:06:41

a classic you can get like a classic

1:06:43

Italian HOGI with like you know, sesame

1:06:46

seeds and the provolone and all the

1:06:48

things with like rugula and like broccoli

1:06:50

rob and mean whatever. It's Oh my god, it's

1:06:53

a whole new ballgame at LaGuardia, y'all. It's

1:06:55

great. I was at LaGuardia just yesterday

1:06:58

and they had it

1:07:00

was so much smoother, you know. I

1:07:02

was I was thinking, like, what kind of dangerous

1:07:04

game am I playing? With the New York airports

1:07:06

here? Right? You still have to take a tram

1:07:08

to to the taxi station and

1:07:10

the ubers and stuff, and now it's just right outside.

1:07:12

I was like, I've been flying into

1:07:15

JFK because Lagaria was such

1:07:17

a show, but now it's like, might just change

1:07:19

that up? I think, I like, yeah, I

1:07:22

think the move is to go with Laguardi because

1:07:24

constructions started at JFK. The reason

1:07:26

we're mentioning LaGuardia is because we wanted to

1:07:28

end on this. Uh. As you probably

1:07:31

know, folks, LaGuardia is

1:07:33

wholly owned by former members

1:07:35

of the Manson family. Don't

1:07:37

fact check us. Just have a great weekend,

1:07:42

Matt. No, I'm sorry, I'm kidding. I think Okay,

1:07:45

okay,

1:07:49

alright,

1:07:51

yeah, Famous Airlines, Magnate,

1:07:53

the Squeaky from

1:07:57

So yeah, we're we're gonna have a

1:07:59

part you of this, maybe a part three.

1:08:01

We would love your help let us

1:08:04

know about some more organizations

1:08:06

that have similar connections. We

1:08:09

think it is important for

1:08:11

this to be something that people can

1:08:14

be aware of, you know what I mean, whether you're

1:08:16

talking sandwiches, whether

1:08:18

you're talking uh educational

1:08:21

online learning tools. Who knew about

1:08:23

that? Uh? We

1:08:25

want to spread the word and we'd love your

1:08:27

help. We try to be easy to find online

1:08:30

online online online dot

1:08:32

com is our website address.

1:08:35

That's the thing. Now it's not uh

1:08:37

it is uh conspiracy stuff

1:08:40

on Twitter and YouTube

1:08:42

and Facebook where we have a group

1:08:44

called Here's Where It Gets Crazy Conspiracy Stuff

1:08:47

show on Instagram. And by the

1:08:49

way, man Matt, it was a bummer. You

1:08:51

couldn't make it. But but Ben and I had a little

1:08:53

trip to New York who just talking about where we did a

1:08:55

morning talk show, the Elvis

1:08:58

Durand Show, and you can find a

1:09:00

fun video of that on

1:09:02

Instagram on the Elvis duran Morning

1:09:05

Show Instagram account. I think it's posted on

1:09:07

our page two. But we're talking about glitter.

1:09:09

You know, that's one of our favorites. But I hope we did you

1:09:11

proud buddy, we did. It's

1:09:13

on TikTok right now. We have a tiktokkap

1:09:18

yeah, and it's it's getting all kinds of views

1:09:20

and comments. You guys, go check out

1:09:22

our TikTok's now and

1:09:25

uh you may see us in more

1:09:28

radio appearances in the near

1:09:30

future. If you have a radio station

1:09:33

that you want us to hop on right

1:09:35

to them or right to us and let us know.

1:09:37

In the meantime, if you're already if

1:09:39

you're already on board with contacting us, why

1:09:42

not give us a phone call The phone

1:09:44

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1:09:46

d W y t K you'll hear

1:09:48

a familiar voice and a b P like sop

1:09:51

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1:09:53

three minutes are yours. No one can take

1:09:55

them from you. That's your country, You rule

1:09:57

those three minutes. Go nuts with it. Give

1:09:59

us nickname that you like, if it's a cool,

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1:10:04

us what's on your mind. Let us know if

1:10:06

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1:10:11

importantly, don't censor yourself if you

1:10:13

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1:10:18

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1:10:20

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1:10:24

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