0:01

From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover

0:03

ups. History is riddled with unexplained

0:05

events. You can turn back now or

0:08

learn the stuff they don't want you to now.

0:16

Wa wa wa. Welcome

0:20

back to the show everyone, Wa.

0:23

This is stuff

0:26

they don't want you to know. I'm Matt and I'm Ben. Welcome

0:28

back guys today. It's

0:31

getting exciting. You

0:34

know, listeners can't see this right now, Matt,

0:36

but you have a you have

0:38

a weird grin on an

0:40

air of mischief about

0:43

and perhaps it's just the

0:45

most wonderful time of the year, which is what you

0:47

want to call Halloween on this show.

0:50

Or maybe you got something up your sleeves

0:52

there. Maybe every

0:55

time salmon comes around. I

0:58

feel a little bit that way us

1:00

the correct pronunciation, which we learned the hard

1:02

way. Yes, uh,

1:04

listeners out there who

1:07

also watch our videos, you know that Ben and I have

1:09

tried our hand at starting one of those what

1:11

do you call them? Cults? Um

1:14

it went pretty well, it did.

1:16

You can actually see some of the results

1:19

in a video series that we did. One

1:21

episode in particular wherein

1:24

Matt, you as the cult leader, have sent

1:26

me out to proselytize our coworkers.

1:29

Well, I will say that I was not self

1:31

appointed. Well, you know, sometimes

1:34

the Godhead just finds your right.

1:37

So we we do have

1:40

a video where we take a satirical

1:42

look at some of the some

1:45

of the operations that cults. You, some

1:47

of the techniques would be a better work, right, How

1:50

occult begins, right, and how

1:52

a cult grows, and how it maintains

1:55

loyalty, ideology and pushes

1:57

people into increasingly

2:00

unusual decisions.

2:02

Right. Sure, And Uh, you know, if

2:04

if you work in uh the

2:07

law, or if you work with logistics,

2:09

then you're well aware of decision trees

2:11

and how with a little bit of forethought

2:14

and with some careful puppet stringing,

2:17

you can place people, uh,

2:20

very easily into a

2:23

situation that they would have never ever

2:25

in a million years thought they would do. And

2:28

which brings us to our

2:31

next side of the story here. And what's that meant?

2:34

Well, we're asking an interesting question here

2:36

today. Do intelligence agencies

2:39

run cults? Uh?

2:43

What an interesting question? Yeah, fascinating

2:45

even now in the United States. When we say

2:47

intelligence agencies, we're

2:49

talking specifically in this sense about

2:52

things like the FBI and the CIA,

2:55

the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Central Intelligence

2:57

Agency, and we know that these Alphabet

3:00

agencies, specifically those two

3:02

and also the n s A and several

3:04

other of them, they are actively

3:07

monitoring groups, all kinds

3:09

of individuals that they consider to be let's

3:11

say, possible threats to the national

3:14

security. Can you guys hear the

3:16

finger quotations we just put around that

3:19

the air quotes. That's because national

3:21

security is often vaguely

3:23

defined and increasingly so.

3:25

So just for examples. Uh,

3:27

what what's something that these

3:29

agencies would monitor. One that

3:32

you are probably aware of is

3:34

the occupy movement that happened several

3:36

years ago and is still ongoing today.

3:39

Um. You can look, there's um a

3:41

Guardian article that we looked at

3:43

about how the FBI coordinated the

3:46

entire crackdown, well not the entire but a

3:48

large portion of the crackdown on the occupy movement.

3:51

Um, and that's by Naomi Wolf. You

3:53

can check that out. Yeah, we've got a

3:55

quotation here. Part

3:57

of this that we pulled from this article for you guys

4:00

to hear is uh. In this

4:02

article in the Guardian, Naomi Wolf talks

4:04

about the documents that emerged showing

4:07

how closely the alphabet agencies

4:10

and private sector entities

4:13

cooperated sometimes merging

4:15

into a single entity known as the

4:17

Domestic Security Alliance Counsel.

4:20

Here's a quote and reveals this merge

4:22

entity to have one centrally planned, locally

4:24

executed mission. The documents and

4:26

short show the cops and Department

4:29

of Homeland Security working for and

4:31

with banks to target arrest

4:33

and politically disabled peaceful

4:35

American citizens. That really happened,

4:38

Yeah, yeah, yep,

4:42

And we know that that's not the first time it happened.

4:44

We know that throughout US history, other

4:47

groups have been civilian groups,

4:49

mind you, have been monitored by the

4:52

FBI in particular, but also other government

4:54

agencies, and the FBI in particular

4:56

because it's within the United States.

4:58

That's why they're the agency looking

5:00

at it. And we've looked at this before

5:02

with coent tel Pro. When you look at the

5:05

way that they handled the

5:07

FBI handled u MLK

5:09

Martin Luther King Jr. And how like

5:12

how they monitored his phone calls,

5:15

They watched all of it, like all kinds of

5:17

just spying on this guy, went through

5:19

his mail, yeah, manipulating sending him

5:21

threats. Very interesting and

5:23

scary. Then you've also got the Southern

5:26

Christian Leadership Conference, right,

5:28

Yeah, the s c LC,

5:31

as well as m OKA and other members

5:34

affiliated. Both individuals and groups affiliated

5:37

with the civil rights movement were aggressively

5:40

monitored and targeted. But they weren't

5:42

the only ones. There was also what would be called the New

5:44

Left or people pushing for Irish

5:46

independence, an exile group called Cuban

5:48

Power uh, and people fighting for Puerto

5:51

ricandependence and so on. It

5:53

even gets a little bit crazier

5:55

than that. We're talking about monitoring, right, Yeah,

5:58

groups that you would not think

6:00

would be monitored and try me really

6:03

okay. Vegetarians, Oh,

6:06

the isis of restaurants. Huh.

6:08

They're dangerous, man, more dangerous than

6:11

you could ever know. Also environmentalists,

6:14

and I can see the angle with environmentalists

6:16

because there is the uh

6:19

I don't I forget the term for eco

6:21

terrorism? Yeah, um, I mean that does

6:23

exist, That is a real thing. But

6:26

vegetarians, I'm trying to think if maybe

6:28

there's an angle for on

6:31

Santo to get involved. I

6:33

wonder that's not a bad question. We

6:36

have a we have an interesting story to point you

6:38

toward. Check out the story of

6:40

an informant named Anna, and

6:42

Anna was asked to infiltrate things

6:44

like vegan potlucks looking

6:47

for eco terrorists,

6:50

people who would be a threat to h

6:52

quote unquote national

6:54

security. Right. I watched recently

6:58

a movie on HBO. I believe it

7:00

is called The East. I

7:02

think that's what it's called. How about

7:04

eco terrorists and this

7:06

other independent agency

7:09

that sends people to infiltrate them? And I wonder

7:11

where some of maybe the story

7:14

of Anna comes into play. Yeah,

7:16

Now, from what we understand, the informant Anna

7:18

is came forward because this

7:21

person may or may not be female,

7:24

but clearly I think it's female.

7:26

Uh, this person is

7:28

disillusioned with the

7:32

strategies used by domestic intelligence

7:35

agencies. If you haven't checked it out yet, checked

7:37

out our video about

7:39

whether the

7:41

what whether these guys are

7:44

on the up and up and obeying the

7:46

law when they do the monetary and they certainly were

7:48

not doing it during co and tellpro

7:51

which is why Congress changed some of the laws.

7:54

But how many of those laws got

7:56

changed back A little tidbit

7:58

here in two thousand and two under the Bush administration,

8:01

some of those laws were rescinded in the interest

8:03

of, wait for it, national

8:06

security. We

8:08

better not make that a drinking game, because

8:11

somebody's going to get alcohol poisoning um

8:13

and you know this. We also know that

8:16

if we're just talking about monitoring a lot

8:18

of socialist leaning religious groups that

8:20

were anti war, pacifist groups have

8:22

been targeted. In short, Matt,

8:25

they could target pretty much anyone

8:28

they wanted. But did they actually

8:32

infiltrate these groups? Well,

8:35

we're gonna find out really soon after a quick

8:37

word from one of our sponsors, and

8:45

we're back and we can answer

8:47

this question. In the previous

8:49

part of the podcast, we talked about monitoring

8:52

groups illegally, but now it's

8:54

I'm talking about something else, right, infiltration,

8:58

Now that's another thing that we've talked about several

9:00

times video, But for this

9:02

we're talking about civilian groups and

9:05

religious groups and how the FBI

9:07

has infiltrated them before. Right,

9:09

Yes, infiltrated them, but not

9:12

just to infiltrate and surveil,

9:14

not just infiltrate as an informant. There's

9:17

a line that they crossed. So if our question

9:19

is to intelligence agencies run

9:22

cults, we know that they have certainly influenced

9:25

religions and you and I know, of course, and

9:27

listeners you know if you watched for video on cults,

9:30

that the division between a religion and occult

9:33

is a little bit gray. Just as one

9:35

person's terrorist is another person's

9:37

freedom fighter, one person's religion

9:40

is another person's cult. So we

9:42

know that the FBI CIA have used

9:45

informants to enter into Weather

9:47

Underground, which was a

9:49

group active a few decades

9:52

before our time. Listeners, some of you may remember

9:54

the days of Weather Underground. We know

9:56

that more recently and controversially, uh,

9:59

the FBI I has placed informants

10:02

in mosques in the United

10:04

States. Uh. We covered this

10:06

in our video. Is the FBI manufacturing

10:09

terrorists? Why do we use that title, Matt, Well,

10:12

it's because it has to do with entrapment in

10:15

one way, and then also sending

10:17

informants in to try and rile up

10:20

a group. So in this

10:22

guy's case, Craig Montiel,

10:25

he went into a mosque and

10:27

while he was doing surveillance

10:29

on most of the people in one of these mosques,

10:31

he was also he was also talking

10:33

to them about jihad and

10:36

trying to rile everybody up. And

10:39

what they did is they

10:41

contacted Well, first of all, they've put a

10:43

restraining order. They said, don't

10:45

come back here anymore. This is not

10:48

what Islam is about. Yeah,

10:50

we are not the people you're looking for. And

10:52

then they also called the FBI. Yeah, and

10:54

they said, look, there's this crazy guy

10:57

who is trying to bomb

11:00

aces and trying to get members of

11:02

our mosque in there, and he's harassing people

11:05

and the FBI. You know, I can't

11:07

imagine the phone call that happened

11:10

between there when someone said, someone

11:12

said, yeah, there's this guy who is uh,

11:14

we got a report that there may be terrorist

11:16

activity at this mosque and who reported

11:19

it the mosque and then go okay, well, thank

11:21

you for the call. They put the phone down heavy

11:24

sigh, They pick it up and they ring and

11:26

they go, Craig, the jig is up,

11:28

get out of there. I mean, but that that has

11:31

to be that that is such

11:33

an important question, though, and that goes to the

11:35

question of infiltration versus running

11:37

or influencing occult because

11:40

the the idea here that critics

11:43

of this would would

11:45

site is just as you said, matt entrapment,

11:48

you know, exactly. And so

11:51

let's let's look at another place that they've infiltrated.

11:54

Another topic that we've covered heavily owned video

11:56

recently are NGOs, non

11:58

government organizations and the

12:00

c i A. And we we mentioned

12:03

that they send assets in to

12:05

look at groups such as Oh,

12:07

I don't know, Peace Corps US

12:10

aid, right, Yeah,

12:12

there are a lot of them, and it

12:15

is sometimes with

12:17

the organization's understanding that they will

12:19

be sending in an informant or an

12:22

asset, and sometimes

12:24

it's without that understanding. It's just what

12:26

who knew that John Doe wasn't really

12:29

from every town Kansas. It's so

12:31

weird to me. It happens, you know, it

12:33

happens. And it's also

12:35

part of the reason why we hear

12:38

such a stink. When people

12:40

who are working for Western

12:43

n GEO are detained in uh,

12:46

non Western country, often there's

12:48

this implication, whether

12:51

true or not, and I think you have to go case

12:53

by case basis whether true or not, there's

12:56

this implication from the

12:58

capturing country that these people

13:00

were not you know, kids work

13:02

college kids working for the Peace Corps.

13:04

They were plants from the

13:06

CIA or some other

13:09

intelligence agency. I can't imagine

13:11

being in that position finding someone

13:13

from an NGO who's doing something extremely

13:16

suspicious and they go, oh man,

13:18

okay, uh, this could

13:20

be a CIA agent. Uh

13:23

gotta handle this carefully. Yeah,

13:25

oh man, I see, Yeah, that's a really weird

13:27

phone call to get to and then they

13:30

call the They call the CIA. The

13:32

guy goes, oh, what really, and he hangs up.

13:34

He says thank you, He hangs up the phone, he lets

13:36

out alongside, he

13:38

picks it up, dials the number and

13:40

says Craig beautiful.

13:45

As far as we know, ladies and gentlemen, that did

13:47

not actually happen. But what does

13:49

happen on a regular basis is that

13:51

foreign intelligence assets are also put

13:53

in State Department in busses. Right.

13:56

We also know that there's very compelling

13:58

evidence of c I, A and FBI

14:01

front companies and or dummy organizations,

14:04

which you and I covered in some our Gary

14:06

web stuff. Right. So these we

14:08

airline companies with names that are

14:10

just so vague and boring, like Premier

14:12

Executive Transportation Services.

14:14

I fell asleep just reading that out loud,

14:17

uh, and intermountin aviation. We also

14:19

know that financial organizations

14:22

also operate in foreign countries,

14:24

you know, a shell company for the

14:26

purpose of funneling money. So

14:28

what does this all tell us? Well,

14:30

to me, it says that our

14:33

initial question at the top perhaps

14:36

isn't all that crazy. Maybe

14:38

a government agency or a project

14:41

really could involve some kind of

14:43

front cult or a dummy cult.

14:46

Okay, So then let's go over some

14:49

of the illegal things, straight

14:51

up illegal that the c I

14:53

A, n FBI, and or FBI have done

14:56

proven. Yes, oh okay,

14:58

all right, um, let's see where

15:01

to start. There's

15:04

a good one that I can think of. Okay,

15:06

hit me with your best shot. Almost

15:10

started singing, MK

15:12

ultra. That's nothing to sing about, mk

15:15

ultra. We've also done some videos on that.

15:17

Mk ultra, as you know, is a

15:20

blanket term for a series of

15:22

related experiments which involved

15:25

everything from trying to create a

15:27

real life Manchurian candidate that

15:29

would be brainwashed assassin on command

15:32

two, uh, seeing if

15:34

LSD was a truth serum,

15:38

and just looking at how humans

15:41

interact when they're on hallucinogens

15:43

that way. And I still think

15:45

that one guy was assassinated. I don't

15:47

think Yeah, I

15:49

don't think he just did acid

15:51

and jumped out of a window. Yeah.

15:55

Again, that's my personal opinion, folks. That

15:57

is not that is not in any way proven

15:59

the official stories that he committed suicide.

16:02

Yeah, and he wouldn't. He wouldn't be the first or

16:04

last person to jump from a high building

16:06

on some kind of you know drug

16:09

however, uh

16:12

idee a lot of force to propel yourself

16:14

through glass. That's right, all

16:16

right, Well, okay, what uh

16:18

what about the Tuskegee experiment right

16:21

where a group of people, I

16:24

forget what state it was in, but

16:27

they were not given they were okay,

16:29

they had syphilis, but they

16:31

were not treated, uh,

16:34

to cure the syphilis. They were just studied,

16:37

right and given placebo medications.

16:40

Uh. These were African American men in a

16:43

tremendously racist time in

16:45

the US past. I know a few of our listeners

16:47

will say, well, it's tremendously racist today,

16:49

but uh, that was very

16:52

very openly institutionalized

16:54

racism to the point where it made

16:57

it okay from a governmental

16:59

standpoint to experiment on these

17:01

black men. And uh.

17:04

While the us IS official

17:07

position is that the U

17:09

S admits this incident occurred

17:11

over a very long period of time, but

17:14

they say that these guys started out

17:16

with syphilis and simply were not treated.

17:19

However, other people,

17:21

anecdotal reports of people who were involved

17:24

at the time, say that they were given syphilis.

17:29

Right. But we did we did a correction

17:31

when we first did that episode, and we came

17:33

back and we said, um, that according

17:35

to the official government standpoint,

17:38

which I think is how we phrased it. Uh,

17:40

these people were not given syphilis.

17:42

They had it already and they were not

17:44

treated, which is just as insidious and

17:47

unethical in my opinion. Wow.

17:52

Oh yeah. And then there's domestic chemical exposures.

17:54

Speaking of that, that's proven as

17:57

well, so government

17:59

agencies. We just go to the rooftops

18:01

of some poor neighborhoods and they did this more

18:04

than once. And uh, and

18:06

chemicals, you know, to see what happened to stimulate

18:09

a widespread chemical exposure. Yeah,

18:11

and just you know, go to the local hospital

18:14

and find out, well, who came in with what, how

18:16

many how did it manifest?

18:19

Man? Oh yeah, excuse me, listeners,

18:21

I'm meant to say simulate, not stimulate.

18:24

I believe I misspoke there. Um. And

18:26

of course we know that warrantless

18:29

snooping hand or surveillance is

18:33

I would say de facto

18:35

illegal, but other people

18:37

would say it's the fact illegal, being

18:39

that some of the interpretations

18:41

of the law remains secret because

18:45

of national security.

18:49

Oh man, please don't

18:51

be drunk right now. Yeah.

18:53

Uh. And then of course how could we

18:56

go without mentioning, uh side

18:58

ops such as impersonating someone's

19:00

identity, anonymous harassment,

19:03

smear campaigns, and all that other stuff.

19:05

This would be stuff like you mentioned earlier, Matt.

19:08

What would they do with Martin Luther King's mail? Oh,

19:12

well, all kinds of one things with his mail. Um,

19:15

they would intercept the mail,

19:18

check it out, see what's in there, if there's

19:20

anything juicy, make copies of things,

19:22

then put it back in the mail. They

19:24

would send him threats

19:27

and things like that in the mail. Um,

19:29

they'd impersonate people. That's what it is.

19:31

They would impersonate, like let's say

19:33

a letter from one of his close contacts

19:36

that was just seething and

19:39

mad at him or um.

19:41

I think there was one instance where they tried to initiate

19:45

some kind of affair. Oh

19:48

yeah, I had heard. I have heard that story,

19:50

but I haven't looked it up myself. I don't mean

19:52

to give out false information. I hope I am not,

19:55

but it's in my in the back of my head

19:57

somewhere. Well, we do know the am okay did have affairs,

19:59

sure, so it's not out of the realm

20:01

of possibility. Unfortunately. Uh

20:04

what speaking of the mail, it's time

20:06

for a break and we'll be back

20:08

after we're from a sponsored and

20:15

we're back so so far. For a quick

20:17

recap, we have looked at We've

20:19

looked at illegal things the government agencies

20:21

have done in the past. We have looked

20:24

at things that they're monitoring

20:26

activities, We've looked at infiltration activities.

20:29

And now it's time to get to the real

20:31

Here's where it gets crazy part.

20:34

Did a government agency ever run

20:37

occult? So here are some of

20:40

the alleged examples been. The

20:42

first one is Jonestown. Now

20:45

some people believe that Jim

20:47

Jones will We know that Jim Jones was

20:50

running a cult, the People's Temple,

20:52

the People's Temple that moved from several

20:54

places. I can't remember

20:56

the initial starting place, but I know it moved to California,

20:59

then to Guiana. And

21:03

the theory is that he was running a psychological

21:06

experiment of mind control

21:08

on these people on

21:11

behalf of the CIA, or at least possibly

21:14

related somehow to the CIA. I

21:17

see, and that that's an interesting idea

21:20

which we do explore in that video you mentioned earlier.

21:22

Because the People's Temple

21:25

at the time was a bit unusual

21:27

in that it actively encouraged

21:29

acceptance of all

21:31

creeds and it was a little bit left leaning,

21:35

which would be otherwise

21:37

the kind of thing that the US government

21:40

would have closely monitored at that time

21:42

for possible descent or a threat to

21:45

national security. Well,

21:47

it's strange to me that

21:50

that it would still be. I guess

21:52

the reason why it was under CIA,

21:55

or why it's thought to be under CIA, is because they moved

21:57

outside of the country to Guiana,

22:00

which was a country in the

22:02

U S sphere of influence, but

22:04

I guess not officially

22:07

inside the US, so it wouldn't be FBI,

22:10

right, Yeah, But also you

22:12

know, in the evolution of occult, they may have just

22:15

moved to a more isolated place to further

22:17

cement the leader's grip on

22:20

people. They had guards, armed guards,

22:23

increasingly militarized. Uh,

22:25

there were people who wanted to escape.

22:28

There are some huge unanswered

22:31

questions to this day,

22:33

which you and I deal with in the videos,

22:36

about how stuff went down, how the congressman

22:38

was killed, how the people were

22:41

killed, who committed suicide, reports

22:44

of additional people

22:47

or assets, even working

22:49

to UH sanitize

22:52

the operation and then later painting

22:54

it as a suicide when it may have been

22:57

instead, as as the theorist would advance

22:59

a assacre, uh,

23:02

of a psychop gone wrong

23:05

psy op. Rather, I think I think

23:07

that's fascinating. At this point, the

23:09

evidence that you and I could find in

23:11

there, while tantalizing, was

23:14

far from certain. Sure.

23:16

And but there wasn't a CIA agent

23:20

who was working with Leo

23:22

or was it is his name Leo Ryan, the congressman.

23:25

Congressman Leo Ryan. And then there is Dwire And

23:28

you can hear on the recording right that Jim

23:30

Jones are out of here, get Wire out of here.

23:32

Yeah, that is true.

23:35

Um, but at this point

23:38

that while that is one of the most popular

23:40

theories for an intelligence agut running

23:42

occult, it is ultimately at

23:44

this point it doesn't have solid proof yet.

23:47

It just has troubling unanswered questions.

23:50

Um. Can I tell you about one of my favorites.

23:52

Oh, I love this one. All right. Uh,

23:55

this is the idea that scientology

23:59

and we're not calling scientology occult,

24:01

so lawyers, please don't

24:04

get mad. This is a theory

24:06

that Matt and I did not make up, that

24:09

the Church of Scientology

24:11

is somehow run by an

24:13

intelligence agency. And this

24:15

is this is actually a theory

24:18

that is kind

24:20

of more well known in the x scientologist

24:23

community than it is in the mainstream.

24:25

Uh, never been a scientologist part

24:28

of the world. Uh. And the the idea

24:30

here is that the current head of Scientology,

24:32

David Miskevige, is

24:35

working for the FBI

24:37

or the CIA, that he is an asset.

24:40

And you'll see ex scientologists

24:42

who say that they left the organization

24:45

because Miskevige somehow changed

24:48

it. And um, you and I of

24:50

course are not scientologist, nor

24:53

have we ever been. We have

24:55

read about scientology, but we've also

24:57

always read about it from the outside end. Sure,

25:00

Uh, a little background. You hooked

25:02

us up with an excellent book that you

25:05

lent to me earlier, right, yes, going clear,

25:07

and I already forgot the author.

25:10

But it's fantastic. It looks

25:12

at it from an investigative reporter angle.

25:15

Um, on all these different angles and the

25:18

uh, the author allowed Scientology

25:20

to go in and make footnotes and comment

25:23

on the entire book. Right. Yeah. The

25:25

book itself is on the up

25:27

and up. It's a great piece of journalism.

25:30

It does not address this theory.

25:32

It's more about the evolution of society,

25:34

but it does show the change of

25:37

the church in Scientology. When David Miskevige

25:39

took over. Right. Yeah, it just makes no claims

25:42

about this being anything other

25:44

than a change in leadership. Right.

25:47

So it's it's a popular theory

25:50

in a in a small segment

25:52

of the global population, but

25:55

it's it's a fascinating one, especially

25:57

when we consider that the Church

25:59

of Scientology in the United States government

26:02

had historically uh adversarial

26:04

relationships. Yes, again

26:07

detailed in that book quite beautifully. You

26:10

can also check out our video operations

26:12

snow White. We've

26:14

got got one other. Of course, we've got to save

26:17

this guy, good old Charlie Manson.

26:20

Yep, maybe nothing good about him,

26:22

but he is certainly old. The idea

26:24

is that Manson was groomed by aspects

26:27

are assets of the CIA to perform

26:29

mind control experiments in the

26:31

field. Yes, that would be a good

26:33

place to do some and

26:36

of course in this point, at this point,

26:38

apparently uh, Matt and I believe

26:40

that these the c

26:42

i A scientists are evil Germans. Yeah.

26:45

I didn't want to do a uncent.

26:47

Oh no, no,

26:49

no, that would probably that would probably get

26:52

us in some hot water. But we'll see what We'll see

26:54

what comes out of our cartoonish Indiana

26:56

Jones German accents. The

26:59

the The idea here though, is fascinating

27:01

because this is one of those strings

27:03

that when you pull it unravels

27:05

more and more and more stuff.

27:08

So we know that Charles Manson

27:10

had some uh encounters

27:13

with dianetics, which

27:15

was a precursor to scientology,

27:17

during some of his time in prison and during

27:19

some of his time in the hippie counter culture, when

27:22

he also encountered a group called

27:24

uh was it's is it four

27:26

pie? Or pie? Is the alleged

27:30

Ah, yeah, it's Pie not P

27:32

two. That's there, Okay, yes,

27:34

yes, that's the one that David Berkowitz

27:36

talked about the Son of Sam killer and

27:40

then got his throat cut

27:42

in prison. Everything used to speak again,

27:45

right, and there's uh, there's some

27:49

I you know, I hate to say it. I

27:51

hate to say it, but there

27:54

is some really compelling evidence

27:56

that the Son of Sam did not act alone.

27:58

Matt, that detective never gave up. I

28:00

think he's right. And uh,

28:03

this this argument here, uh, this

28:05

goes into the idea that there was

28:08

we first found out about it with Son of Sam

28:11

and Charles Manson, but it ultimately

28:13

expands into this idea that there is some sort

28:15

of serial killer cult or

28:18

some sort of um tacit

28:21

agreement to turn a blind eye to

28:24

certain unethical experiments

28:26

or criminal homicidal behavior.

28:30

Now, of course, in most

28:32

cases, logically, it

28:35

doesn't make sense to think that so many

28:37

people could keep that kind of secret,

28:39

you know what I mean, That's a

28:42

one ordinary

28:44

claim. Yeah, but fascinating.

28:48

But Ben, is this conspiracy

28:51

theory or is it conspiracy

28:53

fact? Ah? Yes? Okay,

28:56

Well here's the thing. It's unlikely

28:59

that and eligence group, at least ones we're

29:01

talking about again in the United States, would

29:03

manufacture an entire

29:05

cult. Yeah, I'm

29:08

trying to come up with any idea

29:11

of why you would manufacture an entire

29:13

cult. To what end would you do

29:15

this? I'm I'm honestly

29:17

not sure unless you you

29:19

know, unless you wanted a whole

29:22

colony of mansuring in candidates

29:25

you just keep in tiny, darkened rooms.

29:27

But you know which I could understand.

29:30

But it would be so much easier to uh

29:33

influence an infiltrated cult

29:35

than it would be you know what I mean.

29:37

Right, It's it's a lot more plausible that

29:40

that would happen because you again,

29:42

if we take the standpoint of one

29:44

of these groups c I, R FBI

29:47

infiltrating them and keeping tabs on them.

29:50

That makes perfect sense to

29:52

me. UM,

29:54

controlling one ah,

29:57

rising up the ranks and then controlling one, Now,

30:00

that's interesting. That's the angle that

30:02

you and I would take. Yeah, uh,

30:04

not that we have considered that, but

30:07

but we hope that you guys have enjoyed

30:10

this episode, and we hope that we have provided

30:12

uh enough fascinating things to to get

30:15

you going in different directions. And we want

30:17

to hear back from you when you come out

30:19

of the rabbit hole, especially

30:21

Matt. I'd like to hear about this

30:23

sort of idea in other cultures

30:26

and countries, like we know that China

30:29

has an adversarial relationship with the

30:31

Fallongong culture, which I'm

30:33

probably mispronouncing. We know that

30:36

UM, the church and the state in many

30:38

cases often clash and in

30:40

some cases they start to become synchronous.

30:43

UM. We also know that UM

30:46

some quasi

30:48

religious groups have been involved

30:51

heavily in government, like P two, which

30:53

we earlier UM I mentioned it in the wrong

30:55

spot, but P two in Italy deserves

30:57

a mention right, which

31:00

would be a Freemason

31:03

associated group, associated

31:05

lodge that has

31:07

a lot of things, had a lot of fingers

31:09

and a lot of Italian pies.

31:12

I guess they were running

31:14

you know, they had an undue influence, is

31:17

what I'm saying. I get you, man,

31:19

So what do you think? Is there any

31:22

one of these topics that you've

31:24

watched our videos? Maybe you want us to go deeper

31:26

into any of this? Do you have any opinions

31:29

about you know, whether or not you

31:31

think a cult is being infiltrated

31:33

and then perhaps is now run by the

31:36

icy cold hands of the c I nice,

31:39

nice, imajury. I'm trying to go more Halloween

31:41

here and I'm not sure if it's being effective or not,

31:43

but you keep going with it. But right

31:46

to us, guys. Yeah, yeah, you can find

31:48

us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. We

31:50

have a website called stuff they

31:52

don't want you to know where you can see

31:55

let's see all of our videos, all

31:57

of our podcast Uh. You occasionally

32:00

to blog up there. Uh so check

32:02

us out there. And if you want to play magic

32:04

with me, I'm on mt G O and

32:06

I go by conspiracy Stuff. Check it

32:08

out. Yeah, play a game with me. Come

32:10

on, and uh, ladies and gentlemen, my

32:12

co host here is serious about that. He

32:14

will play magic the gathering with you. If

32:17

you want to write us an email, we would

32:19

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32:21

to hear your suggestions for upcoming

32:23

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32:26

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32:28

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32:30

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32:33

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32:35

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32:37

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32:42

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32:44

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