0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or learn

0:09

the stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of I Heart Radio. Hello,

0:24

welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

0:26

name is Noel. They called a Ben. We

0:28

are joined as always with our super producer

0:31

Alexis code name dot Holiday Jackson.

0:33

Most importantly, you are you.

0:36

You are here, and that makes this the

0:38

stuff they don't want you to know.

0:40

It is Thursday. If you're hearing

0:42

this in linear time, if

0:44

you practice linear time and you're listening to

0:47

this on the day it comes out, and that

0:49

means it is time for our listener

0:51

male segment. I want to start

0:54

out today by giving a

0:56

no holds barred shout out to our very

0:59

own Matt Fred for going scorched

1:01

earth on those voicemails. We are,

1:04

we are on top of it, and we are digging

1:06

up some fantastic, interesting,

1:08

hilarious, disturbing stuff. Spoiler.

1:11

We may have a celebrity appearance at

1:13

the end of today's show. That will

1:15

be up to you to decide. But for

1:17

now, we are learning

1:20

about crime. We're learning about heist

1:22

we're learning about mysterious

1:24

signals in Moscow, which should

1:26

be familiar to anybody who heard our

1:28

recent episodes. And then we're also

1:31

going to take a deep

1:33

dive into the world

1:35

of criminal justice and child protection,

1:38

into the bleeding edge of predictive

1:40

analytics. But first, I

1:42

think it's fair to say all of us

1:44

were very excited when

1:46

we received a correspondence about

1:48

something that's very near and dear to our

1:51

hearts. Heist, good

1:53

old fashioned robberies, almost

1:55

like something out of the Wild West. And I don't

1:57

want to be too glib about it, because this

2:00

is a serious thing. It is almost

2:03

out of the Wild West, but more like the

2:05

the western world of today and the

2:07

times of covid Um. Amazon

2:10

and any kind of online shopping

2:12

is obviously exploded, making some very

2:14

rich people even richer. Um.

2:17

Well, other other people have maybe not fared

2:19

quite so well um during this uh,

2:21

this pandemic. Um. But I

2:23

don't know if I'm kind of just editorializing here, but it would

2:25

seem that this explosion

2:28

in shipping has led to some

2:30

opportunists kind of finding their way into

2:32

the picture and robbing train

2:35

cars, much more so than have been happening

2:37

in the past apparently since

2:40

robberies of Union Pacific freight

2:42

cars has gone up by a whopping

2:45

three hundred and fifty percent UM,

2:49

and it's apparently pretty easy. Like in

2:51

downtown Los Angeles, there

2:53

are some train tracks that are very

2:56

easily accessed, you know by surface

2:58

streets, and folks are waiting

3:00

till the trains are stopped, um,

3:02

sometimes for long periods of time, and

3:05

jumping onto the back of them and cutting open the

3:07

big shipping containers like the kind you'd see stacked

3:10

you know on massive freight

3:12

ships, UM and cutting the locks

3:14

with bolt cutters and having their way with

3:16

the contents UM. Typically looking

3:19

for ones that are packed

3:21

with smaller items like Amazon

3:24

packages or packages from Target or FedEx

3:26

or whatever. And what do they do.

3:28

They go through these packages, find the things

3:31

that are the easiest to carry and resell

3:33

and throw everything else onto the

3:35

tracks. UM. There are several videos

3:38

you can watch, you know, local Los Angeles

3:40

reporting on this that show, uh, the

3:42

aftermath of this, and it's it's insane.

3:44

It just looks like these train tracks are absolutely

3:47

buried in garbage, UM,

3:49

most of which are these types of packages that

3:51

we're talking about. So I don't

3:53

know It's hard to correlate directly,

3:56

but that rise in

3:58

that period of time wouldn't be surprised

4:00

if it was in some way pandemic related in

4:03

terms of just the likelihood that they're

4:05

going to find something like that, you know, in

4:07

one of these lines of stopped cars. UM

4:11

Union Pacific says that they are trying

4:13

to increase surveillance, UM

4:16

and security. You know, that's

4:18

pretty new and developing stories, So I'm

4:21

wondering what they can Actually they're gonna start having like, you

4:23

know, people on horseback following the

4:25

trains, like with you know, with six guns

4:27

or whatever. Like, I mean, I don't know what

4:30

the options are here, um,

4:32

but it is very interesting. Railroad bulls

4:34

are a real thing. And of course I did

4:36

the dumb thing by launching in the story because it was so fascinating

4:39

and not mentioning that it came from wonderful,

4:41

amazing listener T Dog who

4:43

wrote in with this email essentially

4:46

just a link to the story and saying maybe more

4:48

depressing and shocking rather than strange, but I

4:50

thought the story belongs with you. And

4:52

the depressing part, I mean, the littering

4:55

alone is depressing, especially when you look

4:57

at it and see. It absolutely is just kind of gross

4:59

behavior. But some of the

5:01

packages that are getting discarded because

5:03

the individual items are apparently not worth

5:06

the time of these thieves are

5:08

COVID nineteen tests. There

5:10

are just, like, you know, hundreds of these getting

5:13

thrown. That doesn't make sense. I guess maybe because they'd

5:15

have to bring them in bulk and that's harder

5:17

to do. Um, But it seems like

5:19

that's an item that's just being tossed, obviously

5:21

not getting to people who need them. Yeah,

5:24

and there's there's a larger context

5:26

here to the tee dog. I'm sure

5:28

you're aware of this, but I think

5:31

maybe we have talked about it off air.

5:33

I don't know if we've approached this on air, but

5:35

there is a theft

5:37

epidemic happening in

5:39

the West Coast, specifically in San Francisco.

5:42

It's been called a shoplifters paradise

5:45

now because thefts under nine

5:47

and fifty dollars are more or less

5:50

in practice decriminalized. Like that's

5:52

why you'll see a lot of places

5:54

that have just closed entire stores. I

5:56

think in San Francisco alone, Walgreen's

5:59

closed twin two stores. And

6:02

most people aren't stealing just

6:04

for fun. They're stealing because they feel

6:06

like they need to do so, you know what

6:09

I mean. I think that's important to remember. And you made

6:11

an excellent point, Noel, about the

6:14

the economic factors that are

6:16

going in here. I think it was most deaf who said some

6:18

steal for fun, but more steel to eat,

6:22

you know. I mean, I'm certainly like I used the word opportunists,

6:25

and that's certainly a part of it. Um. But I'm

6:27

sure this is something that's being

6:29

done so that people can flip some of these

6:31

products and and eat um. You're

6:33

right, though, Ben, I didn't mention this, and it's a really good point.

6:36

One reason for the rise in these

6:38

types of crimes is the fact that some of these

6:41

uh penalties have been you

6:43

know, significantly reduced um for

6:45

like these types of one off you know crimes

6:48

um and and folks are essentially

6:50

just don't really care or there it's

6:52

worth It's much more worth risking it um,

6:55

you know, for the potential of like a big payoff. And

6:58

didn't l A p D also say

7:01

that they're not going to respond to

7:03

robbery reports on trains unless

7:06

the company unless Union Pacific specifically

7:09

asked them to Union Pacific

7:11

specifically ask yeah, we got that. Oh that

7:14

is a mouthful. I'm not quite sure about that, but

7:16

I just know that because of what you're

7:18

talking about, the prosecution of misdemeanors

7:20

has been suspended uh in

7:22

l A County, which is the very

7:25

reason that this exploded. So maybe my

7:27

my COVID theory is off the mark um,

7:29

but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a combination

7:31

of the two. Wow, just in reading

7:34

that CBS Local article that

7:36

was sent to us, I imagine that

7:39

the first thing Union Pacific can do is

7:41

kind of upgrade their lock system,

7:45

because I mean even CBS Local

7:48

is saying that the locks are easy

7:50

to cut, and you know, I'm

7:53

sure there's ways around that, guys. Just

7:56

victory. I love that victory of the reporter,

7:59

uh, you know, talk into a Union

8:01

Pacific rep in front of like,

8:03

uh, in front of a

8:05

cargo container on a train and then

8:07

say, no, what kind of locks you have here? And then

8:10

like they reach into their pocket and pull

8:12

out their lock pick and

8:15

they just don't ever point out that it's weird for them

8:17

to have one. Yeah. Well,

8:19

and another thing to consider too, it's just how this could

8:21

potentially affect l a county's supply

8:24

chain. Um, because a lot of

8:26

stuff is coming into the system through these rail

8:28

cars. Um. The l A is one

8:30

of the largest receivers of

8:32

these types of goods in the entire country. So

8:35

uh, there could big picture

8:37

be more to be worried about than just a

8:39

few people losing their Amazon packages. Um.

8:42

They estimated, or at least the carrier estimated

8:44

that the damages from these types

8:46

of thefts amount of two around

8:49

five million dollars. But they said

8:51

that it doesn't include losses to

8:54

their customers, um

8:56

in terms of like the customers of the of the rail

8:58

line um or are uh. They said

9:00

impact on Union Pacifics operations

9:02

in the entire Los Angeles County supply chain.

9:05

Uh and that was reported on in d

9:07

TV. Yeah. I mean unless

9:10

you beef up security around specific

9:12

areas, which then you know, if

9:14

you're looking to score on the contents

9:17

of these containers, then you could just move to a different

9:19

place, right. Uh if you

9:22

if you bolster security in one area, you could

9:24

just go to another. Uh. You could also

9:26

like have security teams attached

9:28

to these

9:33

not horseback in six guns. Right.

9:38

Um. Well, you're right though, I mean the fact that this is

9:40

an open area that's like easily accessible.

9:43

But then you gotta wonder, like is it a matter of

9:45

just traffic, you know, like

9:47

maybe it's harder for them to change

9:49

up, you know, where the train stops because of

9:51

you know, the way the train they have to like change the whole

9:53

schedule of the way the trains run or something. But

9:56

that's you're right, there's got to be something, even if

9:58

it involves overhauling their system, because I guess

10:00

it's it's easy to forget sometimes how

10:02

antiquated these rail lines

10:04

are. You know, it's old infrastructure that still

10:07

is kind of the best game in talent for this type of shipping.

10:09

So there's somewhat limited in some ways as

10:11

to what they can do. And also

10:14

we should say the quiet part out loud

10:16

here. Uh. There there is a

10:18

virtual certainty that there are a lot of individual

10:20

actors here. But I would argue there's

10:23

more of a certainty that these are organized

10:26

These are acts of organized crime, because

10:29

the opportunity is there, and then you

10:31

can use you know, the power of

10:33

numbers. If you look at the videos

10:36

that have that pop up in the news

10:38

reporting this, you'll see that it's not

10:40

a small amount of stuff getting

10:43

boosted. They are racking hundreds

10:45

of cars, hundreds of cargo containers.

10:48

Rather now, it's it's a great point, Bat, I mean, it does feel

10:50

more like a ring of some kind, you know, with cooperation

10:53

and good timing and some sort of central

10:55

leadership rather than just you know, individuals

10:58

that are just like coming and exploiting

11:01

this situation. It's a really good point because

11:03

again, I mean you look at some of the images like on this Indie

11:06

TV article. I mean that's the it's

11:08

it's it's from left to right as far

11:10

as the eye can see in the frame,

11:12

you know, this trash it just kind

11:14

of goes on and on. Um. It is

11:16

an absolute pile. So

11:19

something to follow. Um. I hope they figure it

11:21

out. But it's definitely an

11:23

odd situation. And maybe

11:26

it's a matter of l A county working

11:29

with the uh you know, the train line

11:31

to make these crimes more prosecutable.

11:33

But then to your point Ben about the you

11:35

know, the overload in their judicial system,

11:37

I mean, it could be just not a

11:40

huge priority for them. Um. And at

11:42

the end of the day, unless there's

11:44

a real impact you know, the supply chain

11:46

and infrastructure, probably something

11:49

that's just gonna be dealt with in insurance claims.

11:52

So thank you t Dog for that

11:54

tip on that story and something. We're gonna keep an eye

11:56

on the meantime, we're gonna take a break and

11:58

then we'll be back with more snermail. All

12:07

right, we are back and we will be jumping

12:09

to the phone lines. Uh quit.

12:11

Couple of notes here, guys. Got

12:13

a message from Michael on the case

12:16

very recently who asked us to look

12:18

into the business plot. I

12:20

saw that. Yes, yes, oh

12:23

Michael, I I cannot remember if

12:25

I if I had replied, But let's do it on air

12:28

just really quickly. You are

12:30

in for a treat. A spoiler

12:32

alert. We have a special interview

12:36

that oh time is funny archive A one.

12:39

Uh it may be out now, I

12:41

think, yeah, but we do

12:43

check it out. We speak in depth

12:45

with the world's foremost

12:48

living expert on the business

12:50

plot, at least the foremost expert who

12:52

is willing to speak about it publicly. So

12:54

stay tuned to that. And we have a

12:58

another secret pride jecked on

13:01

the way in in a few months that might

13:03

be of interest to you. But yeah, business plot.

13:06

The timing on that was uncanny, wasn't it.

13:08

It was perfect because I think it was just

13:10

as we were recording the episode is when markin

13:13

us uh

13:15

and and just one of the shout out guys,

13:18

some anonymous so and so let us

13:20

know about a show called Lex. It

13:23

was called Lex I Worship His Shadow.

13:26

I had never heard of it. I ended up watching

13:28

the pilot episode. One of the

13:31

strangest nineties sci

13:33

fi shows I've ever seen. The

13:35

reason why this anonymous person sent it

13:37

to us because it has some kind of AI

13:39

like judicial system within it.

13:42

But anyway,

13:45

yeah, Lex with two X is it's

13:47

just a weird show, probably not

13:49

worth your time, but a weird little relic to

13:52

jump into, all right, but we did. We had

13:55

so many great messages. I want to jump to someone

13:57

who called in named Yah Yah guys.

14:01

UM, so my name is Yah Yeah, not

14:03

actually, but you can call me that. UM.

14:05

I work in healthcare and

14:08

UM just been listening to you

14:10

know, the Havannah episode.

14:13

UM. The thing that seems

14:15

to be income and is it like a lot of the symptoms

14:18

that you described are are kind of like symptoms

14:20

of neuroinflammation. UM.

14:23

And it makes me question whether

14:27

this grouping of people have like,

14:30

uh, medications that they

14:32

have to take UM, whether

14:34

it be vaccines or some sort of like

14:36

preventative malaria medication

14:39

something for travel. Like a lot of people

14:41

within the government and UM,

14:44

in the intelligence agencies and

14:46

diplomats and stuff, UM end up

14:48

getting like extra UM

14:51

extra vaccines and like

14:53

malaria medication and stuff that uh,

14:56

your ordinary citizen wouldn't be taking UM.

14:59

And it makes me question if maybe

15:01

there's something going on that they

15:04

I don't know, maybe there are people that are like

15:06

not tolerating that. Not to sound like a

15:08

wild anti VAXX or anything like that, I'm

15:10

not, I promise, but UM

15:13

just just curious because again, what

15:15

what would the groups of people have in come

15:17

And and again a lot of these

15:19

symptoms sound very similar to

15:21

things you would find in somebody who's dealing with

15:24

UM something affecting their nervous system,

15:26

obviously the brain specifically. All

15:29

right, well, thanks for keeping it objective

15:31

and interesting UM,

15:34

and for all the entertainment. Thanks by

15:36

neural neural inflammation. Why didn't

15:38

we think of that? Right? It

15:40

didn't jump into my mind at all when we

15:42

were creating that episode. And

15:45

Guya makes a great point that

15:47

when you know when you're traveling abroad, maybe

15:50

you've experienced this to

15:52

a certain area where there's a prevalent disease

15:55

or a prevalent sickness and illness

15:58

that you just that you or

16:00

immune system hasn't dealt with because

16:02

of where you've lived for most of

16:04

your life, you will have to get extra medications,

16:06

a certain vaccine or something like that. Um,

16:10

it only makes sense that diplomats functioning

16:12

in another another country, let's say,

16:14

like a Caribbean country like Cuba, may

16:17

have to get specific other,

16:19

you know, medications. I can totally

16:21

see the reasoning there, right, because

16:24

that is we know that is something that is true. Service

16:27

members who function in you

16:29

know, every arm of the military have to

16:31

get extra vaccines, take extra

16:33

medications to fight locally

16:36

specific diseases. UM.

16:39

It may for me, I don't know what you guys

16:41

think. It may work for one location. But

16:43

when you see the symptoms of havana

16:46

syndrome, you know, affecting people who

16:48

have been all over the world stationed

16:50

in different places, it makes me think maybe

16:53

it's not that, or maybe it's something specific

16:57

to you know, diplomatic

16:59

personnel general not not

17:01

depending on where they're traveling to. So

17:03

multiple So it could be one of multiple

17:06

possible causes, So we're not saying it

17:08

would be the entire thing. I mean, that makes sense

17:11

to me. Anybody who has traveled

17:14

in uh governmental or

17:16

even in geocapacity is well aware

17:18

of how much stuff you have to get shot up

17:21

with. But the other, the other point

17:23

I think that we need to raise

17:26

here, yahya, is the question of

17:28

familiarity with medication

17:31

or dose. Like the people in

17:33

the State Department are not getting shot

17:35

up with some kind of bleeding edge

17:38

experimental drugs. Right, the

17:40

the possible side effects,

17:43

the efficacy, all that stuff has been

17:45

extensively researched.

17:47

So that would mean if there were a

17:49

medication that was common

17:52

that was causing these effects or

17:54

these symptoms in uh An a sizeable

17:57

amount of people, then for

17:59

that not to be reported would

18:02

would imply a cover up, right,

18:04

which is exciting. I'm just logically walking

18:06

through this um. But

18:08

but it is possible that it could be at

18:11

least in some cases a cause. Referencing

18:14

again those controversial studies from and

18:16

twenty nineteen that did that

18:19

did appear to find physical alterations

18:22

to people's to people's brains.

18:24

Again, you know, there are a bunch of scientists

18:27

who disagree with those findings, the

18:29

jury is still sort of outs. I'm

18:32

just very happy that you are called in with this possibility

18:35

so that I could even so that we could even like ponder

18:38

it. Uh. And we're certainly has

18:40

been you said. We're certainly not saying that this is

18:42

the cause or the only cause,

18:44

or any cause for the Havana

18:46

syndrome symptoms. It's just something

18:49

to to think about. Um

18:51

Wow. Well, hey, guys, if you're up, if you're

18:53

up for I've got another message from somebody

18:56

about the Havana syndrome episode.

19:00

Okay, And then here's a message from

19:02

Gumby. Yes, my name is Gumby.

19:05

I'm just letting you know that I was listening to

19:07

your podcast just recently about the

19:10

the Moscow UH incident

19:12

stuff. I was a young marine back

19:14

in four station in Moscow.

19:17

I knew Clayton lone Tree, the one with the

19:20

espionage of the sex of secrets.

19:22

I know him for six months while I was stationed

19:25

in Moscow. Um. Also

19:28

during that time, I would always

19:30

see over my detachment commander's

19:33

office. He would have a hot dog in the window

19:35

and underneath there was little note saying

19:38

I would like it well done, please and

19:40

I would ask him what before why he had

19:42

that up there, and he said it was because the microwaves

19:45

that would come in to listen

19:47

to us while we were in the embassy's um.

19:50

And every once in a while I was here,

19:53

noises, you know, like a hype. It's

19:55

sound in my hear, you know, in

19:57

my head, and it would be

20:00

so severe that it would be

20:02

a headache and that and I would hear whispering. That's

20:04

that I was losing my mind. But

20:07

that's that's basically what happened

20:09

to us after in Russia. And it was an interesting

20:11

thing, you know, for a young marine. I

20:14

was only twenty years old, turned one

20:16

while I was out there, and it was

20:19

interesting. Keep up the good

20:21

work, guys. I enjoy listening to you. Uh.

20:26

Some of these messages we get, guys, like

20:29

like this one from Gumby the first person

20:31

experience of the Moscow signal

20:34

at the time when it was active, or at least

20:37

it was believed to be active. Uh

20:39

No, they did that. I know, I know

20:41

they can't say. I'm

20:44

pretty sure, but

20:47

wow, thank you so much, sir for calling

20:49

in and telling us that story. The

20:51

idea of your detachment Commander's hot

20:54

dog by the window. Hilarious.

20:58

I love it. I of my hot

21:00

dogs, medium, rare person um.

21:05

But but just knowing that you

21:07

had auditory effects

21:10

from something that was going on while you

21:12

were there, Right, you're saying that you heard

21:14

high pitched noise in your head that would

21:16

give you a headache. You're having effects

21:18

of you know, it sounded like you

21:20

were hearing whispering, which that's got

21:22

to be an unsettling experience, right,

21:25

Oh god, Okay, nope, nope,

21:29

too close to home. Yeah,

21:31

we put that in there. If you heard some sorceress

21:34

there, that was us. But yeah, it's

21:36

I mean, it is startling too, especially

21:39

if you're talking about tradecraft

21:41

or surveillance, because even

21:44

the people who are supposed to be protecting

21:46

you in your role as a

21:48

deployed marine may not be at liberty

21:51

to tell you what's actually happening. Right

21:54

Uh And that's you know, unfortunately, that's

21:56

a tale as old as time. You can go

21:58

back on forth on how necessary

22:00

that is, how mission critical that kind

22:02

of secrecy is. But when it gets to

22:05

the point where people are experiencing unexplained,

22:08

damaging things happening to their

22:10

bodies, uh,

22:12

I feel like that's ethically unsound

22:15

to deny them that knowledge. And you

22:17

see that with stories about exposure

22:19

to depleted uranium. You see that with

22:22

the long tragic saga of agent

22:24

Orange. These stories continue

22:27

today, and sometimes the argument

22:29

of a greater good or needs

22:31

no basis don't really hold water,

22:33

because right now, no matter how

22:35

rich or poor you are, you get one body

22:38

that might change, might change later, but

22:41

for right now, the body you have

22:44

is the only one you get to keep. So

22:47

uh so, I I can totally

22:49

understand being very defensive

22:52

or feeling left out in the cold, as

22:54

they used to say, uh by

22:56

this kind of surveillance stuff, if it has we

22:59

can talk about the v A two, which

23:01

I think, uh gumby you would be

23:03

very certainly will have opinions on as

23:05

well. Like the v A is has been

23:07

known for turning down

23:10

legitimate medical grievances.

23:13

And if there is not an official cause

23:16

or official explanation, official

23:18

attribution for whatever you

23:20

may be experiencing medical condition or

23:22

disability, then the v A is

23:25

quite adept at denying coverage. And

23:27

I just I don't have words for how unjust

23:30

that is. Sorry, that's a

23:32

tangent, but it's an important one. I'd argue

23:33

it is. I'm

23:35

going to jump really quickly to something that Gumby

23:38

mentioned. He said he knows

23:41

or new maybe Clayton Loan

23:43

Tree, who was a marine

23:45

and Soviet double agent. Uh.

23:48

I believe we mentioned him in

23:51

that episode. Maybe we didn't. Maybe

23:53

we like kind of referenced him.

23:56

Oh, we've referenced him. I think in a previous

23:58

Listener Male episode where someone called in

24:01

speaking about that. Yeah, he was. He was mentioned

24:04

previously when Jim called in with those stories.

24:07

I don't think we actually said his name though, Clayton

24:09

Loan Tree. But wow,

24:12

apparently Gumby knew him. Uh,

24:14

and he did get released from

24:17

lock up, I think in Uh.

24:21

He also later went on he's

24:23

still alive today Loan Tree, and she

24:25

went on to be an expert witness

24:28

in the cases against other

24:30

people accused of spying for the KGB.

24:33

I don't want to say anything else. You

24:36

don't want to make a honey pot statement. Okay,

24:39

alright to ten rule. Oh

24:43

Man, Well, thank you again,

24:46

Gumby, thank you yah ya for sending us those

24:48

great messages. If you've got you

24:50

know, experience with anything like this, we want

24:52

to hear from you. Two. If you're listening

24:54

to this right now and thinking about calling in, we highly

24:57

encourage you to do so. No matter what

24:59

you want to talk about, we want to hear from you.

25:02

So we're gonna take a quick break and

25:04

come back with more messages from

25:06

you. And

25:13

we've returned, we're going to

25:16

we're going to go into something um

25:18

dark but important, and then

25:20

we're going to try to bring bring

25:23

the mood up maybe just a little bit, with

25:25

that possible celebrity appearance

25:28

we teased earlier, So stick

25:30

with us. We received an

25:32

excellent piece of correspondence. We had a lot

25:34

of correspondence actually with

25:36

some of our conversation about

25:39

the juvenile justice system, of

25:41

our conversation about incarceration, some of our

25:43

conversation about the foster care

25:45

system, and there is going to be a full episode

25:47

of that on the way, but for now,

25:50

we want to extend a heartfelt

25:52

thanks to one of our

25:54

fellow conspiracy realists, who, due

25:57

to the nature of the information they've conveyed,

25:59

must main anonymous. UH.

26:01

And as always, you have a story you

26:03

want to share that your fellow listeners

26:05

need to know, and you're feeling a little squirrelly about

26:08

it. Uh, we do try

26:10

our best to protect anonymity, and if

26:12

you're not comfortable reached out with a show thing, you

26:14

can reach out to me personally. We we always

26:17

shout out our social media. Here we

26:19

go. This email from anonymous

26:21

starts by naming the

26:24

various positions this individual is

26:26

occupied in the justice system. And

26:28

this email is little in depth, so we're gonna stop

26:30

at different parts and talk it over,

26:32

explore it with each other. So it starts

26:35

this way. Officer, probation Officer,

26:37

diversion officer, pre trial

26:39

release officer, community corrections, case

26:41

manager for sex offenders, Certified

26:43

bond Commissioner, Investigator of child

26:45

abuse and fatality, social worker,

26:48

placement EVALUAID which means

26:50

assessing the rehabilitation needs of juveniles

26:52

facing incarceration, et cetera.

26:54

That's the cold open of this correspondence.

26:57

Are anonymous sources in these roles.

26:59

I have been a trainers, supervisor, and expert witness.

27:02

I have attended and presented a many national

27:04

conferences. I'm also a data nerd

27:06

who provides input and feedback to a

27:08

statewide child abuse research

27:10

team in cooperation with

27:13

just gonna redact that. Uh, please

27:15

don't assume that my roles and affiliations

27:18

make me pro cop or biased.

27:20

I will be the first to say that the criminal justice

27:22

and child protection systems are deeply

27:25

flawed. I only remain in these

27:27

fields because change of major systems

27:29

must happen from within. Now

27:32

that is that is a valid

27:34

point. It's also an argument that just candidly

27:36

not everyone's going to agree with. And

27:39

our anonymous source gives us the following

27:42

here is what they don't want you to

27:44

know. Number One, we criminal

27:46

justice and child protection have many

27:48

scientifically validated tools that

27:51

accurately predict elevated risk

27:53

of criminal recidivism, child

27:55

abuse, substance dependency, truancy,

27:58

etcetera. Recidivism is the likelihood

28:01

to commit more crimes after

28:03

you've committed a couple in the past.

28:06

So this source has verified

28:08

that predictive analytics, which

28:10

we talked about in the past, is being implemented

28:13

in multiple jurisdictions to direct

28:15

practices and services. Anonymous,

28:18

you have provided us a

28:21

fascinating link to a nonprofit

28:24

a ECF dot org, which

28:26

talks about using data analytics

28:28

to quote work for children and

28:31

families. This is also, by the way,

28:33

very much response to our AI Prosecutor

28:36

episode from earlier and shout

28:38

out to all the legal vehicles in Germany

28:40

touch based with us on that. Thank you. Uh

28:43

So, this person is saying that

28:46

predictive analytics is both validated

28:48

and accurate, but is still

28:51

seen as a tool of bias and discrimination.

28:54

And then here's the juice. That's why

28:56

I tune into the show, folks. This fellow

28:59

listener gave us data points

29:01

that a lot of the public doesn't know what

29:04

failing the first grade and not any

29:06

other grade is a validated

29:09

indicator of sex offender

29:11

recidivism. This was taken

29:14

out of assessment tools because it's not politically

29:16

correct. Isn't that crazy? That

29:19

doesn't make sense to me? And that's from

29:21

the nineteen nineties. It's saying mm

29:23

hmm that that the assessment

29:26

I guess the and some of

29:28

these outdated markers

29:30

have like stuck around for too long. Wait

29:33

wait, hold on, hold on. So

29:35

that's saying that for some reason,

29:38

whatever leaps are supposed

29:40

to happen cognitively during the first

29:42

grade, if you kind of

29:45

if you can't get past some

29:47

of those things or or you know, get your mind wrapped

29:49

around some of those things at that

29:51

age, then you are more

29:53

likely to commit another crime.

29:56

After the first crime you've committed, especially

29:58

a crime that we have your category rized as a

30:00

sex offender. That's

30:03

the specificity there is is

30:06

very strange to me. Also, just

30:08

candidly, I feel like, glad it's only

30:10

the first grade because your boy

30:13

here took kindergarten twice lack of

30:15

social skills true story. So

30:18

I don't know what it is about specifically

30:20

about first grade and and be interested. I

30:22

think we all be interested to hear um

30:26

everybody else's reaction to that. This keeps

30:28

going. This second one makes a little more sense.

30:31

The zip code of your residency at birth

30:33

and proximity to a liquor store

30:35

increases the likelihood that you will commit

30:38

a crime of violence. This

30:40

study originated out of Houston, but was

30:42

confirmed via national analysis,

30:45

so they extrapolated, right,

30:48

I mean that makes sense to me. You don't see

30:50

a ton of package stores

30:53

in the really really nice neighborhoods, and insurance

30:55

agencies, all insurance companies, excuse

30:58

me, already use zip coe information

31:00

to determine, you know, like the likelihood

31:03

of vandalism to your car

31:05

or an accident or something like that. You know.

31:08

Um, it does seem kind of cold

31:10

though, because Yeah,

31:14

it puts people in a box. You know what I mean, all

31:16

of these do? I mean that one is still being

31:19

used. Uh, it's apparently, Yeah,

31:21

a data point that people are using, which is

31:24

unfair because not everybody can afford

31:26

to live in the best ZIP code for their child.

31:29

You know what I mean. You were saying

31:31

the one about first grade though, was removed,

31:34

right, Uh it was. Yeah,

31:36

it was taken out because it was too there's

31:38

too much of a of a hot button issue.

31:41

And it does feel like it it does,

31:43

you know, without us seeing the methodology.

31:46

Um, you know, like like we pointed

31:48

out that was a tool used in the nineties,

31:51

but without us seeing the methodology, that feels

31:54

almost like pre crime, you know, sure.

31:57

I mean, so does the package store one. And a

32:00

little problematic beyond that if

32:02

you pair it with the you know what you mentioned about

32:04

the types of neighborhoods that it seems to be targeting.

32:07

Um, it's very interesting. I mean,

32:09

so your anonymous emailer

32:11

has insight access to these uh methods

32:13

that normal people wouldn't have. That's right, right,

32:16

Yeah, that's correct. This person is speaking

32:18

from firsthand experience in the multiple

32:20

positions that they have occupied over

32:22

the years. Uh, and they're trying to fight

32:24

the good fight. There are um,

32:27

there are a couple of other things. And

32:30

then one last important point

32:32

this anonymous fellow

32:34

conspiracy realist has made. The next

32:36

one is uh.

32:39

Next one is also kind of weird quote.

32:41

The number of long term friends you have

32:43

is an accurate predictor of criminal recidivism

32:46

and probation compliance.

32:49

I'm not sure how to interpret

32:51

that. This is apparently implemented

32:54

in a criminal justice tool called the l

32:56

s I. But if it says what

32:58

I think it says in correct us if we're off base

33:00

here, Anonymous, it sounds like

33:02

they're saying having a sense

33:05

of community makes

33:07

you less likely to commit more

33:09

crimes? Is that what they're saying? Because

33:11

it could be read the other way as well, Right, Yeah,

33:14

I was wondering the same thing. I don't know.

33:17

It seems like the kind of thing you hear people

33:19

say about, you know, serial killers

33:21

when they find them, like, oh, they were always a loner

33:23

and then then kept themselves and all that. But

33:25

again, that's almost like become a cliche,

33:28

um, and to use that in advance

33:31

as a determining factor of whether or

33:33

not someone's likely to commit crimes seems a little

33:35

tricky. Some people are just you know, not

33:38

super social. Yeah. And then there's

33:40

another one that's not in the US. This is in New

33:42

Zealand. Uh. New

33:45

Zealand is able to assess

33:47

children at the age of five and

33:50

at that tender each the system

33:52

is able to predict who admits these

33:54

kids will grow up to be a financial

33:57

burden to the criminal, welfare

33:59

and medical systems. And this apparently

34:01

is done by UH figuring

34:04

out and quantifying the number of adverse

34:06

experiences the kid was exposed to

34:08

by that point, which is

34:11

frightening but logical. Unless

34:14

this sounds cold, you know, these aren't. This

34:17

isn't as though there's some Orwellian

34:20

plan to like pre ruined children's

34:23

lives. They're trying to make

34:26

a more efficient system.

34:28

They're trying to lessen the burden on

34:31

the system. Now, um,

34:33

but this is this is a lot of food for disturbing

34:36

thought. Anonymous goes on to say

34:38

something that I think, unfortunately speak to a lot of

34:40

our fellow listeners. Quote. They

34:43

say ignorance is bliss, But what they don't say

34:45

is insight is a burden. When one's

34:47

mind is full of validated, predictive

34:49

analytics and tens of thousands

34:51

of hours of interviews and assessments. One

34:54

can read people too well. Cold

34:57

reading, I thought you'd appreciate this man is

34:59

a party trick used by hustlers and

35:01

con men for fun and entertainment. Profiling

35:04

is a trained step above cold reading.

35:07

Then there are those of us who can meet

35:09

a child and see that child's past trauma

35:12

and future hurdles. We are

35:14

cursed. I welcome a computer

35:17

telling me who and what needs attention, because

35:19

that computer can be turned off at the end of

35:21

the shift. Unlike my knowledge and insight,

35:23

it's always on, it's always lingering, it's

35:26

always telling me more than I want to know

35:28

about that, for instance, young

35:30

Sandy blonde lady at safeweight.

35:33

Uh. And then the letter concludes. But

35:36

I thought this would be I mean, this

35:38

is going to be controversial, right for for a lot

35:40

of people. The idea we have people in

35:43

in the audience with us today who have

35:45

children in first grade, you know what I mean.

35:48

Yeah, Yeah, that

35:50

is a tough thing to think about.

35:52

I know that that exists just from interactions

35:55

I've had making some past

35:57

shows with people who work in this kind

36:00

kind of field, the field of psychology

36:02

and assessment and just how

36:05

how much of a toll that takes on you,

36:08

um, not only with assessing people, but you know, in

36:11

many ways internalizing other

36:13

people's stuff that they're dealing

36:15

with. Right. Um, My

36:18

heart goes out to you, anonymous

36:20

person who sent this to us, because that follow

36:23

this stuff. I mean, I'm assuming all of these data

36:25

points are real and correct,

36:27

and you've backed them up, many of them

36:30

and I looked in the source and it's legit. Yeah,

36:35

And that's tough. Yeah. It's something

36:37

that we didn't talk about in the AI

36:40

prosecution episode because we

36:42

we didn't talk about the

36:45

enormously dangerous mental

36:47

and emotional burden that

36:49

has put upon people who

36:51

have to fight the darkness

36:54

in this way, you know what I mean, It can

36:56

destroy people. And I believe that's

36:58

why in many aspect to law

37:00

enforcement, especially like specific

37:03

types of child abuse. UH, in many

37:05

parts of the law enforcement world, individuals

37:08

are cycled out on a rotating

37:10

basis because it's too heavy for one

37:12

person. But thank you

37:15

so much for this, Thank

37:18

you so much for this information. For everybody

37:20

out there who's fighting to protect kids

37:22

and make the world a better place, thank

37:25

you as well. And if you have experience

37:27

with this. If you have other data points

37:29

that you want to share, we would love to hear

37:32

from you. Uh, we don't want

37:34

to end on such a heavy note. Uh.

37:36

So we have one correction just came in. Now we'll keep

37:38

this person anonymous as well. Uh. They

37:41

wanted to point out that vending

37:43

machines that sell underwear is a

37:45

specifically weird Japanese thing, and

37:48

it's very true. It's not all of

37:51

and we knew that. Yeah. I think that was in

37:53

relation to the farts in jar story. Uh.

37:55

And I maybe tried to um cast

37:58

two wide a net. They're absolutely scifically

38:00

a Japanese thing. I think we maybe even did a

38:02

pick up on that one in the night. We've kind of made

38:04

it stupider. No, we knew, we

38:07

very much. Uh, We're very much aware.

38:09

And it is never our Uh.

38:12

Then this ties into the idea of predictive analytics.

38:14

It is never our

38:17

aim to generalize.

38:19

And I want to I want to shout out this anonymous person

38:21

because you wrote such a great comparison.

38:24

At the very end of your letter, you said it's like

38:26

say Europeans eat horses, when

38:28

maybe just some French people do so

38:31

so so points and thank you and

38:34

we hear you. Um this we're

38:36

just doing on the fly because it came in. It's an important

38:38

point. But we did say we wanted to end

38:40

on an up note. Your

38:42

pals over here. Stuff they don't want you to know

38:44

might be coming up in the world, folks. Uh,

38:47

we have Matt.

38:49

I'm gonna be honest with you. I haven't listened to this yet,

38:51

but we have what Matt tells

38:54

us maybe a celebrity appearance

38:56

in our voicemail. Oh well, yes,

38:58

it most definitely is. Uh

39:00

and you'll you'll find out why here

39:02

we go. Now, you know you guys want me to

39:04

say it. I mean, who else is

39:06

gonna do it? Oh? My crown. There's

39:09

only there's only one way

39:11

to say that word, okay, and it's

39:14

on the crown. Because

39:16

you know, whenever

39:18

you think about the word I'm a crown, you

39:21

and crown, all you think about is transformers

39:23

come on them. They suck a cons on

39:26

dots. That's what that's

39:28

what you think about. And you know I

39:30

heard you talking the other day and I said to myself, I gotta

39:32

leave a missed for him. You played on the ear, gonna play

39:34

it here? I don't care. It's for you guys. Enjoy it. Oh

39:36

my crown, it's here. But

39:39

is it gonna do anything? I don't know what do

39:41

you guys think? Personally?

39:43

I just another saying. Ain't nobody dying

39:45

from it? But whatever? What's

39:47

that? Well? You want to say something? Oh?

39:50

Hold on, my name is

39:52

Optimus Prime, leader of the Auto

39:55

box from the planet cliper trod. Oh,

39:58

the beautiful planet cliper Ron.

40:00

I remember it well. We used

40:03

to transform and roll out all the

40:05

time. Anyway,

40:09

I'm just sitting here and I thought, you know what, oh

40:12

my crown, not

40:15

to be confused with Crown. Sorry,

40:20

I couldn't help myself. Have a nice

40:22

stay, gents the whole days.

40:24

Merry Christmas, enjoy your winter, wol

40:27

of day, whatever you want to call it. Do

40:29

you think? Keep up the great work. I

40:32

love the podcast. Don't

40:34

stop ever, choose I would be

40:36

the saying. Good point? Is that his

40:38

real voice? We'll never know? Yeah,

40:41

this is a man of many voices. Who

40:43

is this person? I thought,

40:45

Okay, peep behind the curtain here vols

40:48

uh. When I was talking this up for the entirety

40:51

of this week's listening to mails, something, I thought

40:53

we were going to George Lopez. Who

40:55

we are? We are? I'm so sorry I

40:57

had to take us down that just

41:00

quickly. Which

41:04

accent is the guy's real accent?

41:07

I don't, I don't want to know. Maybe he is. He

41:10

is a robot in disguise. It does give me

41:12

an idea though. Maybe the next variant will

41:14

be called Decepticon, and then

41:16

the Omicron variant can fight the Decepticon

41:19

variant and save the planet.

41:22

Wow. Wow, Well

41:25

let's go to George Lopez for

41:27

more. Hi,

41:29

my name is George Lopez, future President

41:31

of the United States of America. Yes, the comedian.

41:35

I'm just coining because you

41:37

guys remember touch the topic clearly

41:41

digging deep into the Montauk

41:43

Project. There's a lot of history

41:46

on Long Island about it. Government

41:48

has hidden it

41:51

was before Air Force

41:53

Space would be a good episode.

41:55

Thank you, and I love the show, been here

41:57

in for years. I

41:59

did that? Is him? Really? I don't

42:01

know? Did you call him back? Is it an idea? I

42:04

did? And the mailbox was full. Was

42:06

in an l A number. And he's a busy guy.

42:10

I mean, he's got an amazing podcast. I don't know if you guys have

42:12

heard omg, oh, what

42:14

is it. Yeah,

42:17

yeah, it is. It's great. Uh,

42:20

it's on the O MG High,

42:22

that's it. And and also you know, uh,

42:24

if this is not the George Lopez

42:26

with the podcast to MG High, well

42:29

then you are our famous George

42:31

Lopez. Uh on car

42:33

stuff. For years, there was this awesome

42:36

caller who I'm still personal friends with named

42:38

Glenn Beck. And uh

42:41

and Glenn, we still Scott Knight kept

42:43

our word man. We still never

42:45

had any name jokes. We just refer

42:48

to you as the Glenn Beck. You're the you're

42:50

the one in our book man.

42:52

Hell well, you know. And and if if this is

42:55

not the George Lopez of stand

42:57

up comedy and podcast and tell

43:00

visual fame, then I hope this George Lopez's

43:02

stand up career is going well. Yeah, I mean too, He's

43:04

going to be the next president of the the United States, So I

43:07

mean that somes going well. I

43:09

like and you know, it's definitely not

43:11

a job I want. I don't know about you guys, but

43:13

uh yeah, no, thank you fakes.

43:16

But with that, we are going to

43:19

call it a day. We will

43:21

be back tomorrow with more

43:24

stuff. They don't want you to know. In the meantime,

43:26

we want to thank anonymous. We

43:28

want to thank George Lopez. We

43:31

want to thank oh mcgroan. We

43:33

want to thank yah yah te dog Gumby

43:36

and everybody who's tuned in. If you want

43:38

to be part of the show, we'd love to have you.

43:41

We try to be easy to find online, boy

43:43

do we ever. You can find us on Twitter, you

43:45

can find us on YouTube. You can find us

43:47

on Facebook with the handle

43:50

Conspiracy Stuff. You can also find our Facebook

43:52

group Here's where it gets crazy. Um.

43:54

If you would like to find us

43:56

elsewhere, you can use the handle at Conspiracy

43:58

Stuff show, which we are on Instagram and those

44:01

things doing for you. There are more analog ways

44:03

to get in touch with us. That's right, use

44:05

your mouth in your phone will be waiting

44:07

by ours. I

44:10

like it. I just like company.

44:13

I don't know, is that what it is? It reminds me of

44:15

sitcoms. I was thinking about this. Um,

44:18

I was over because I just fritter

44:20

time away on Twitter. I was on Twitter and

44:22

it just hit me, Um, whatever

44:24

happened to all the bonkers sitcom premises

44:27

of Yesteryear? Like I missed that stuff?

44:29

When when someone the writer's room was

44:31

like, you know what, No, they meet an alien

44:34

he's friendly, but he's always just

44:36

about to kill and eat their cat. Or they're

44:38

like, oh this guy married a jinn. My

44:41

dead mom possessed my car, Like how

44:43

did that? Like it was so in depth that they had

44:45

to explain the set up in the

44:47

theme song, right the best.

44:49

I think we're due for, like a second, I think we're

44:52

due for a renaissance of that kind of television.

44:55

Maybe it'll be us well maybe,

44:58

Well then I look forward to next Twitter

45:00

Fritter. Uh that that was one of my

45:02

favorite phrases so we've had

45:04

thus far. But hey, if you do want to call us,

45:07

our number is one eight three three

45:09

s t d w y t K. When

45:12

you call in, give yourself a cool nickname,

45:14

and we just don't want to say your real name on air.

45:16

If if that's okay, we'd love to know if we

45:19

can use your voice and message

45:21

on one of these episodes, and

45:23

you've got three minutes. We do ask that you

45:25

try to limit the number of back to back

45:27

calls that you send in, but we do want

45:29

to hear from you, so please don't let that

45:31

stop You just helps us get through them a little

45:33

faster. And we are caught up at

45:36

this point that's very exciting for us. Um.

45:39

If you don't want to send us a voice message,

45:41

instead, consider sending us a good

45:44

old fashioned email. It takes

45:46

links, it takes all kinds of stuff, and there's no limitations

45:48

there. We read everything you send us

45:51

our email addresses conspiracy

45:53

at i heart radio dot com.

46:00

Ye stuff

46:14

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46:16

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