0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or learn

0:09

the stuff they don't want you to know. M

0:24

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name

0:26

is Matt Nola is not here today, but

0:29

we'll be returning soon. They

0:31

call me Ben. We are joined with our

0:33

super producer Paul Mission controlled

0:36

Decond, uh you know, maybe

0:38

for this episode he is our elder

0:40

evangelist, Deck Decond.

0:43

But most importantly, friends and neighbors,

0:46

conspiracy realists and skeptics

0:48

alike. Welcome to the show. You

0:50

are you, and you are here, and that

0:52

makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

0:55

That's right. And today we're going to delve

0:58

into another cult. We've

1:00

discussed them on this show before, how

1:02

to start them, how to identify

1:04

them, how to deprogram yourself

1:07

from them. Cults are, you

1:09

know, a troubling but fascinating

1:12

thing to discuss, and

1:14

much more common, especially here

1:17

in the States, than the average person

1:19

might guess. There's there's something very American

1:22

about cults in the

1:24

global idea or concept.

1:27

You know, when you if you ask somebody

1:30

in the United Kingdom about a cult, they

1:32

might tell you something about Charles Manson

1:34

or Jim Jones. You know, Yeah,

1:37

there's something very American about

1:39

the need or the want to be an

1:41

independent or breakaway group

1:44

from a major thing. Oh good, call

1:46

man, I didn't think about that yet. That's

1:49

that's interesting. Now. This, this group

1:51

we're discussing today,

1:54

goes by many names, and

1:57

we started thinking about this off

1:59

air when we ran into some

2:02

some strange stories on the edge of

2:04

the news for the most part, So

2:07

here's the skinny. We've all heard of dumpster

2:10

divers or survivalists, other people

2:12

living off the grid for one reason or

2:14

another. Often people are

2:16

driven to this lifestyle through some

2:18

sort of necessity, maybe poverty, homelessness.

2:22

Escaping law enforcement also

2:25

happens way more often than you would think. Or

2:28

they may be pursuing a philosophical

2:30

position. It may just be a temporary situation,

2:32

a form of vacation. In some

2:34

cases, however, people are driven

2:37

by something deeper. Yeah,

2:39

that the spiritual movement

2:41

of calling, and they'll

2:44

just latch onto a set of beliefs

2:46

or find a set of beliefs to be

2:48

latched onto that compels them to leave

2:51

just the everyday mundane, all the

2:53

stress, the studies, the career, the

2:55

family, the expenses, everything,

2:58

Just leave it behind. Just hit

3:00

the road, right, hit the old

3:02

dusty trail, and light out for the territories.

3:04

As Mark Twain was wont to say,

3:07

so when people disappear

3:11

because of this spiritual

3:14

calling, this revelation, right, this

3:17

imperative from a

3:19

supernatural force.

3:22

Right, when this happens

3:25

for most people, at least most people

3:27

here in the States, it's

3:29

just another example of freedom of religion.

3:32

If you're not hurting anyone, you're

3:34

allowed to do what you feel like doing.

3:37

Right, If you're over eighteen, you can

3:39

move wherever you want to move if it's

3:41

within the legal you know, constraints

3:43

of citizenship and everything. Right, Yeah,

3:45

so if you want, if

3:48

you just decide, If if Paul one

3:50

day, for instance, halfway through this recording

3:53

says, you know what done,

3:56

I'm don zo, I'm out of this.

3:58

I am going going to Mississippi,

4:01

Mississippi. I'm going to Mississippi.

4:04

I'm only gonna wear blue clothes. These

4:07

are the two things I realized. I'll build the

4:09

religion around that. Then he can

4:11

absolutely do that, and

4:14

there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong

4:16

with people doing this as individuals or as

4:19

intentional communities, unless

4:22

that is there's more to the

4:25

story, but

4:27

let's start as the Mad

4:30

Hatter was rumored to say

4:32

at the beginning those yeah,

4:35

I believe that he doesn't. I don't

4:37

believe he actually makes that quote. He

4:40

is also not called the mad Hatter.

4:42

Oh yeah, yep, yep. I remember

4:45

we discussed that on this show before, did

4:47

we. Oh yeah, yeah, I think we briefly brought that up. The

4:49

mad Hatter not actually being the mad Hatter.

4:51

He's not that mad, just the hatter, I think,

4:54

Oh man, but he is. Okay, so he

4:56

is mad, but he is not the Mad Hatter, right,

4:58

and he's mad because that's

5:01

an allusion to the mercury

5:03

right used to form hats, the felt

5:05

of hats. I remember we talked

5:07

about this. Oh man, the

5:10

past is blurring, you know, a watercolor

5:13

in the rain. Oh, thank

5:15

you. We're done that. So

5:17

so here are the facts. We're talking about

5:19

this group that, according

5:22

to itself, doesn't

5:24

really subscribe to the concept of names.

5:27

You know what I mean. Correct, It's not about the name.

5:30

It's not about the name. It's the system,

5:32

man, that's what it's about. And

5:34

we would like to introduce you to the

5:37

leader of the group we're exploring today, brother

5:40

evangelist jim Roberts. According

5:42

to Jay Gordon Melton's Encyclopedia

5:45

of American Religions, this

5:47

gentleman Jimmy T. Roberts was born

5:49

in Paducah, Kentucky, on June five,

5:52

nineteen thirty nine. He was

5:54

the son of a part time Pentecostal

5:56

preacher named Koy Roberts now

5:59

jim Me was one of six siblings,

6:02

and his family was not very well

6:05

off. Their impoverished living in poverty,

6:07

and Coy couldn't seem to hold a steady

6:09

job. This is the father, Jimmy's

6:11

father, and most

6:14

of the family's income came from the

6:16

mother, Mrs Roberts job down

6:18

to the town drug store, absolutely

6:20

Matt And for the Roberts family, we

6:22

see that the idea

6:25

of material gain

6:28

is it's not the primary

6:30

focus of their lives. They're

6:32

the primary focus of their lives seems

6:35

to be religion or spiritual

6:38

calling. Both parents deeply

6:40

religious. We mentioned that

6:42

he the father, was a part time Pentecostal

6:45

preacher. He was at a place called

6:48

the Church of Jesus Christ granted

6:50

not the most creative name. It

6:52

was a small independent church pastored

6:54

by a man named Herby Reid,

6:57

and Jim's mother was a member of an anti

7:00

Trinitarian United

7:02

Pentecostal church. And well, we'll

7:04

discuss what that means a little later. Yeah,

7:07

I thought I thought of you. I was reading some of this stuff.

7:09

I think I knew you were going to be our

7:11

go to pick to explain this,

7:13

because you know some of the doctrinal differences

7:15

there. It's a bit strange, but we'll get to

7:17

it. So Jim himself was

7:20

preaching by the age of fifteen,

7:22

and Herby Read's relative recalls

7:24

him at a very young age saying,

7:27

hail is hot and there's no ass

7:29

water. Oh man, Just such

7:32

an observation, you know, it's

7:35

I think it gives us a sense of

7:37

the type of oration

7:41

he was he was presenting. Yeah,

7:43

it's a it's a simple image that he's giving

7:45

you. There's something that you won't be able to

7:47

have while you're in this

7:49

place that's really bad, so you've gotta keep yourself away

7:52

from it. And also it is

7:54

a a fire and brimstone

7:57

message. Very it's a very

7:59

much like that early American work centers

8:01

in the hands of an angry God. It's

8:04

dwelling not on the

8:07

good stuff, the nice

8:09

things that might happen, or you know, the glory

8:11

the kingdom of heaven. It's dwelling

8:13

on the punishments of the dangers.

8:17

This is really interesting for as we're getting into

8:19

this a little later, what Jim's

8:22

views are are the way he shaped

8:24

his beliefs about spirituality.

8:27

Yeah, he kept

8:30

this consistent theme. He was also a smart

8:32

kid who was only child and his family to finish

8:34

high school. And we're not equating

8:37

intelligence necessarily one

8:39

to one with going through an educational

8:41

system successfully, as

8:44

anyone who has experienced with rural

8:47

America or rural parts of the world will know,

8:49

often very very intelligent children

8:51

are not able to participate in the

8:53

education system because they

8:56

have to work on maybe

8:58

an agricultural field or some out provide income

9:00

for their family. But despite these obstacles,

9:03

Jim Roberts made it out of Paduca.

9:06

In nine fifty eight, he joined the Marine Corps.

9:08

He became a sergeant. He served

9:10

until nineteen sixty one, and he was

9:12

a Vietnam veteran. He returned

9:15

to civil life and he moved around the United

9:17

States working a number of jobs.

9:20

He ended up in Chicago, with the

9:22

chance that the

9:24

American dream version of

9:26

life in the sixties, you know, he found

9:29

love and he thought, is this my chance to have

9:31

a spouse, my two point five kids,

9:34

my nine to five job for a few decades

9:37

with the gold watch at the end. You

9:40

don't get those anymore. He probably would have

9:43

yeah at that time, but the answer is

9:45

no. His

9:47

his romance failed, and around the

9:49

same time he encountered a very

9:52

eccentric group known as

9:54

the Jesus People on the North side

9:57

of Chicago, in a neighborhood called Uptown. It's

10:00

one of those intentional communities

10:03

there. You might find a

10:05

few around. I know in Atlanta there are several

10:08

you can go and visit. Um

10:11

just a group of like minded people living together

10:13

who how do we describe them in a previous

10:16

episode, These these sorts of communists,

10:18

people who are extremely on the same

10:20

page about very

10:22

specific fate. And there's

10:24

a lot of stuff that a

10:27

spiritual, intentional community

10:30

is just not going to care about. They

10:33

picked like a number of very small

10:35

things and then they everybody is in lockstep

10:37

ideologically about them.

10:40

This encounter, you

10:42

know, his experience spending time with the Jesus

10:45

People provide

10:47

some high octane fuel to Jim

10:50

Robert's spiritual journey,

10:52

and he doubles down on his lifelong

10:54

dedication to religion. He moves

10:56

out. You'll hear a couple of different stories about this. One

10:58

story will tell us that he moves to Missoula,

11:02

Montana in nineteen

11:04

seventy one, and you'll hear other people say,

11:06

no, he joined a movement in Colorado.

11:10

He met a small group

11:13

of fundamentalist,

11:15

extremist Christians.

11:18

So these would be people

11:20

who recognize a

11:22

Bible as and and

11:25

use it right, read from it, and study

11:27

it as any other Christian

11:30

would. Christians in the audience. You know, there

11:32

are multiple versions and iterations

11:34

of Bibles, which

11:37

also were setting up as a little

11:39

bit of foreshadow in here. But

11:42

but Roberts began

11:44

to exert influence

11:47

on this group. He was not content to

11:50

be a member. He wanted,

11:52

you see, to be a

11:54

leader. And coming out of the

11:57

Vietnam War, his experience

11:59

as a marine as a Marine sergeant,

12:02

gave him some hardcore take

12:05

no poop uh skills

12:08

when it came to leadership. Oh yeah,

12:11

everything from the stone cold

12:13

stare at someone when you're having let's

12:16

say, a theological argument

12:19

to keeping

12:21

someone in line when they're incorrect,

12:23

or when you believe they're incorrect. They're

12:25

all kinds of things like that. There

12:28

was a quote that he had a piercing, mesmerizing

12:31

gaze, kind of respute

12:33

and esque, perhaps so

12:36

he would stare people down, it

12:38

would mentally dominate them,

12:40

kind of a Darren Brown. Probably

12:43

a little bit of pickup artistry in there, you know,

12:45

the same thing that charismatic religious

12:48

figures will use. And

12:50

he successfully became the leader of the group.

12:53

He had also grown to hate

12:55

the world, the modern world. Yeah.

12:57

Remember, now this is him coming off of

12:59

this relationship that didn't work out after

13:02

he probably saw it as the golden

13:04

opportunity and his entire life

13:06

was ahead of him and he saw it and then it failed.

13:09

So now he's kind of in a way spiraling

13:12

into this Like in a way, you could say that,

13:14

but we're not. You know, you can't ascribe all of this person's

13:17

actions to this one thing that happened to them, but

13:19

you can definitely see how it's morphing.

13:22

And uh, and Roberts realized

13:24

that, oh my god, the

13:27

end of the world. It's about to happen. The world

13:30

is going to end. He felt like his world was

13:32

ending. He thought he was seeing the signs. You

13:34

know, there wasn't some date that

13:37

he told everyone the world is going to end,

13:39

but you know, he

13:42

knew it was coming. He could feel

13:44

it, right, He

13:46

had a divine

13:49

revelation. It was

13:51

something where he thought, you know, people have always

13:53

said this before, but now I know the

13:55

end truly is nie.

13:58

And this means that we must

14:00

purify ourselves. We have a very

14:03

small window of time TikTok tik

14:05

tiktuk TikTok, and a lot of work

14:07

to do as individuals and as

14:09

a group. Return

14:12

to homespun clothes, don't

14:14

own a car or a house

14:17

or a bank account, live

14:19

off the land, and

14:22

bear a witness or proselytized

14:24

evangelized so that other people

14:26

get the message. It's the only way we can

14:28

be saved. He planned to drop

14:30

out of society entirely, and he

14:32

ordered his followers

14:35

to do the same. In

14:37

the decades afterwards, this group traveled

14:40

widely and separately. If you attended college

14:42

in the United States, by the way, you might

14:44

have seen one or had

14:47

a conversation with a small

14:49

group of people. If they thought you were vulnerable,

14:52

right, uh so, they would

14:54

scour college campuses looking

14:56

for the quote called out. These

14:59

are the people all the group believes will

15:01

join them to escape the imminent looming

15:04

judgment day. This is

15:07

the birth of the group that would come to be called

15:09

the Brethren, and we'll continue

15:12

to explore that group after a quick word

15:14

from our sponsor. Well,

15:21

old friend, what do you say, Uh, shall

15:23

we play the name game with the Brethren?

15:25

Oh? Yes, let's begin with what they're known

15:27

as externally to the outside world. Laid

15:30

on me, the Jim Roberts Group or

15:32

the Roberts Group. I get that that's

15:34

probably from some law

15:37

enforcement or cult hunting

15:39

networks, right, yeah. And also the parents

15:41

of of group

15:44

members they have they have a group,

15:46

and they call them the Roberts Group. Internally,

15:49

we'll hear conflicting things. There will be

15:51

some ex members or survivors of the

15:53

group who say that it

15:55

never has a name. Maybe was referred to

15:58

as the Church, or or

16:01

they would refer to each other as the brothers

16:03

and sisters the

16:05

Body of Christ, the Brethren.

16:08

But there is another name that has

16:11

as recently surpassed

16:13

the other names in terms of popularity,

16:17

the garbage Eaters. And

16:19

you did some, you did some digging on

16:21

this matt. Where did that come from? Well, it

16:23

comes from their mode of

16:26

attaining sustenance, at least

16:28

the group's preferred mode

16:31

of getting food and water, and that's by

16:33

either making arrangements with stores

16:36

that have food that's about to expire and

16:38

then taking it from them,

16:40

or just by scavenging, going through

16:42

dumpsters and dumpster diving. Right,

16:46

yeah, dumpster diving. And oh yeah,

16:48

and it was named this or it was coined

16:51

this on an episode of that

16:53

was discussing the Roberts Group and

16:55

they called them garbage eaters. Yes,

16:57

I believe the host said that name.

17:00

So that's a little, uh, a

17:03

little hyperbolic, little derogatory.

17:07

It does not describe in any way the beliefs

17:09

of the group or what it stands for anything

17:12

besides the way that they get food

17:14

and freaking is um. I know we

17:16

have a lot of people who have done dumpster diving

17:19

before in the crowd. Freakidi

17:21

is um is not an objectionable

17:23

thing, especially when we consider the

17:26

sheer just staggering,

17:29

tragic and disgusting amount of food

17:32

waste, things that are thrown out when they're

17:34

perfectly good and they

17:36

could be feeding starving people. But

17:39

Yeah. Of course, we can't legally tell

17:41

you that that's a good idea to go

17:43

dumpster diving and live off

17:46

the wasteful spoils of these

17:48

supermarkets. But we

17:50

can tell you that in many places is

17:53

against the law. It's trespassing, and

17:55

some cases, if you don't know what you're doing,

17:58

you could easily give yourself some word

18:00

of food poisoning. Yeah, but we can say

18:02

that you can make some kind of arrangement

18:05

with maybe a local store or something.

18:08

I mean, you can at least reach out and see what they say.

18:10

Yeah, you can go to the

18:12

manager of a store at the end of the day.

18:16

A lot of places like bakeries have to throw

18:18

stuff out, delis

18:20

things like that. So they're living in a very

18:22

low impact weight and they've

18:26

been mocked or I

18:28

guess characterized as

18:32

somehow vile or repellent

18:34

because they're doing something with the noblest

18:36

of intentions, you know what I mean. And

18:39

it's it's strange that that

18:41

would be what people latch

18:44

onto. So we do want to say very clearly

18:48

it's not a it's not a cult that worships

18:50

garbage and eating it. I

18:53

would be fascinated by that. I

18:55

think you would too sure. But

18:58

but okay, so we know so are this

19:00

is what we've established. Jim

19:02

Roberts is the head of this group

19:04

that where let's I guess we'll call them the

19:06

Brethren because that's what they're known as

19:09

internally. Um,

19:12

and we know that they scavenge

19:14

for food. Let's talk about what

19:16

they believe? Yeah, what

19:19

are their actual beliefs? Matt?

19:23

Okay, So they officially

19:25

they follow the teachings of the Old

19:28

and New Testament, so both books major

19:30

books of the Bible, but it's taught

19:32

as interpreted by Jim Roberts, the

19:35

leader, and literal meanings

19:37

are given to passages in the Holy Writings,

19:40

and they tell you know, they we go

19:42

through some of these, right, don't We have some quotes somewhere in

19:44

here. We'll get into that, like specifically

19:47

what pieces of scripture argused

19:49

to develop the group

19:51

and kind of control the group and maintain it.

19:54

Yes, And as we established earlier, there's

19:56

not just one Bible, you

19:58

know, there's just one

20:01

Torah, there's just one Koran.

20:03

There are different translations, but that doesn't

20:05

mean the books are different, right, and

20:08

then there are when we get to

20:10

the Bible, you at all,

20:12

you've got all kinds of stuff you got some some

20:14

have extra books added, some

20:16

have books taken away. All

20:18

of these, by the way, are created

20:21

by people who feel like they're reaching the

20:23

purest form of it, and then

20:25

others will rely on different

20:28

translations. And this great

20:31

game of telephone essentially

20:33

proceeds from the ancient eras to

20:35

our modern day. And

20:38

they the Brethren, have a

20:40

particular version of the Bible that they

20:42

feel is the best, and

20:45

it's the King James version. You might have seen

20:47

that one coming. Um, It's

20:49

according to Roberts, this translation

20:53

is the one, and all other translations

20:55

are corrupt, as well as the beliefs

20:58

of most other outside Christian organizations

21:00

besides the Brethren. And it sounds

21:03

strange at first when we think about

21:05

the King James version being touted

21:09

as the purest version of the Bible,

21:11

because of course the original books that would later

21:13

come into the Bible were not

21:16

written in English, right

21:18

and the I believe that

21:21

the King James version is the

21:24

third English translation improved

21:26

by English church authorities. But

21:31

I don't know, man, Although it sounds crazy,

21:34

I've heard this reasoning

21:36

in other rural communities where

21:39

someone says, well, the King James Bible,

21:41

and I heard someone say this, Matt, is the closest

21:44

to what Jesus Christ

21:46

actually set. Oh yeah, that

21:48

that was big where I grew up,

21:51

particularly with members of

21:53

the South, the Southern Baptist Church, some

21:55

of those, which is is still do

21:58

you see what I'm saying? It's still confounds

22:01

me because when I first heard it, I thought, well,

22:03

Jesus Christ didn't speak English, so

22:05

what in the purest form of whatever was

22:07

said be something that occurred

22:10

in the language in which was spoken and then originally

22:12

written. Rationally, Absolutely,

22:15

I would say in my experience,

22:17

I did not think about that at the time. Really

22:20

well, I mean again, it's a it's a spiritual

22:22

matter, right, So yes,

22:24

According to Roberts, the King James version,

22:27

that's the one, that's the only one except

22:29

no substitutions. And

22:32

when it comes to the nature of God, like

22:34

his mother, Jim Roberts is a staunch

22:37

anti Trinitarianist, believing

22:40

that God is not three

22:44

separate things. Instead the

22:46

Brethren or Modalists, they think it's all

22:48

one thing, one God. But Matt, what

22:51

what exactly is Trinitarianism?

22:54

Because I feel like we can only

22:56

get a rough sense of what it is

22:59

by saying, you know, just by the etymology,

23:01

it's against three is um.

23:03

What does that mean? Yes, Trinitarianism

23:06

or the trinity doctrine. This is the belief that

23:08

God exists as three separate

23:10

but equally important persons.

23:12

And the word persons is used a

23:14

lot when describing these

23:16

separations of God. The only

23:18

thing is the Father, the Son, and

23:20

the Holy Spirit. Those three separate things are

23:23

each made out of the same essence, the

23:25

same being, the same matter. It's the same

23:28

thing, it's but at the same

23:30

time as three separate persons. It's a little weird.

23:32

The way I think about it is um.

23:35

Water. You know, water exists as liquid,

23:38

gas, and a solid, and it can

23:40

be that the same water can be each

23:42

of those three states at any time. But it's

23:45

still h two oh, it's still made of the same exact

23:47

essence or matter. Um. But

23:49

then when you get into modalism, this

23:51

is this one is a bit confusing

23:54

for me. This is the belief that

23:56

God is a single being or

23:58

person that has revealed

24:00

itself to people in

24:02

different ways at different times in history.

24:05

Okay, so when

24:07

God created the universe, God

24:10

manifested itself as

24:12

the creator. Then when

24:15

Jesus was born and came down to earth.

24:17

It was again the same God, but manifesting

24:20

itself in a different way. Um

24:23

like an incarnation of sorts kind

24:25

of. But again, when you when you talk about it

24:27

this way, it seems like it's the exact same belief system,

24:31

right, Oh, that they're built of the same substance.

24:33

Yeah, yeah, it is definitely

24:35

a deep doctrinal point. Yes,

24:37

but what what you're saying about modalism

24:40

makes me think of the old

24:42

story of the mice and the elephant, you

24:44

know, where these tiny mice run

24:47

into an elephant for the first time, and one

24:50

hits against its leg and thinks

24:52

it's discovered a tree. One

24:55

hits its nose and thinks it's discovered

24:57

a snake and snow on without realizing

24:59

that this is all a greater, single

25:01

thing. That that's a that's a great point. I

25:04

just I I kind of

25:06

don't want to sit in a room and have

25:08

an argument with somebody who's a

25:11

a trinitarian and a modalist and

25:13

just have them argue, because I don't think I would enjoy

25:15

that. I would watch

25:17

it, but only if I could

25:19

have snacks and leave

25:21

whenever I want. Okay, totally, totally

25:24

if I would love to hear this doctrinal argument,

25:27

so long as I

25:29

do have popcorn with like the

25:31

option for I

25:34

don't know what's your what's your snack of

25:36

choice when you go to the movies? Oh,

25:39

I bring my own, I don't. I

25:41

mean um that we can't legally

25:43

tell people to do that. I don't do that.

25:46

I just don't go to the movies anymore. Oh

25:48

man, you are a man of principle,

25:51

my friends. Well, speaking

25:53

of principles, yes, let's get into

25:55

the key scriptures. Yea, the Brethren

25:58

uses there are several key

26:00

lines of scripture guiding the brethren.

26:03

Uh. One is from Luke

26:06

four three. So

26:08

likewise, whosoever he be of

26:10

you that forsaketh not all he

26:12

hath, he cannot be my disciples.

26:15

Literal interpretation. If you don't

26:17

give up everything, you're

26:20

screwing up already from the jump.

26:23

And then there's Matthew as

26:25

well. Right, I'll read Matthew. There

26:27

we go and says,

26:29

and everyone that hath forsaken

26:32

houses or brethren, or sisters,

26:34

or father or mother or wife, or children

26:36

or lands for my namesake shall

26:38

receive an hundredfold and

26:41

shall inherit everlasting life.

26:43

So if you give up everything, you

26:45

forsake, all the people in your life, all

26:47

the stuff in your life, you're gonna live forever, at

26:51

least in a way. Tight. Yep,

26:55

No, seriously, I think that

26:57

that sounds like a cool promise, right if

26:59

that's a old thing. Yeah, but you're the look

27:01

what you're given up. Yeah, you're inheriting

27:04

everlasting life away

27:06

from everything you love, well,

27:09

away from your worldly loves. Okay, right,

27:12

that's the idea, is that your real family

27:14

is going to reward you, your

27:16

real family being God and your

27:19

proximity to God. There

27:21

are a few more you can look up and read

27:23

to yourself, such as Acts

27:25

four thirty two. Matthew.

27:28

Their big Matthew fans. I mean, who isn't

27:30

I'm I'm I'm a Matthew

27:32

fan. Parents in the eighties were

27:34

huge Matthew fans. And there we go. What

27:37

else do we have? Mark eight thirty

27:39

five and second Timothy six

27:42

seven and eight, And we'll just read that one

27:44

really quickly, For we brought nothing

27:46

into this world, and it is certain we

27:48

can carry nothing out, and having

27:50

food and raiment, let us be

27:53

therewith content. As

27:55

we mentioned before, there are no metaphors

27:58

in this church, which in this group, all

28:01

of these things are literal interpretations,

28:04

and they have a rigid, one would

28:06

say, militaristic hierarchy.

28:09

The members of the group are put

28:12

into smaller groups, subgroups

28:15

cells, in other words, similar to the

28:18

organizational principles used by some terrorist

28:20

groups. And they are

28:22

small, they are nomadic. They might squat

28:25

in a house, they might find a cabin, they

28:27

might camp in the woods. They

28:30

can range in size. It can

28:32

be just one person sent to a city

28:34

or area as a scout, as a

28:36

harbinger of sorts, or it

28:38

can be as many as fifteen people. Yeah,

28:41

there are there are stories of groups

28:43

that will find a house that's abandoned and

28:46

then actually, rather than just squatting

28:49

per se, just being in that house while there's no

28:51

one living there, making an arrangement with

28:53

the property owner to clean the house,

28:55

to keep the you know, the yard and everything

28:58

spick and span and looking nice, but

29:00

be able to live there, which sounds kind

29:02

of cool if you're a if

29:06

you're a landowner and you're

29:08

aware of these folks, they they seem

29:11

like pretty cleaned up

29:13

people. They're not out doing drugs,

29:16

right, They're not um,

29:18

They're not going to be committing crazy,

29:20

heinous criminal acts on

29:22

your property. I can see it being really

29:24

troublesome though, because if you've got a house

29:27

that's either abandoned or maybe

29:29

just no one has rented for a long time, and

29:32

then you have someone a tenant like that

29:34

in your home, and then let's say somebody

29:36

is interested in renting that home or buying

29:38

that home, you can't just kick them out. There's

29:41

some very complicated rules

29:43

and laws having to do with that. Oh, even

29:45

squatters, right, yeah, yeah, they kick

29:48

in at various times, depending

29:50

on the state or the country you're in. So

29:54

when and where these groups

29:57

move is ultimately

30:00

going to be up to the Brother

30:02

Evangelists Jim Roberts, who's known

30:04

as Brother Evangelists, he's the elder of Elders

30:07

now, which is important to the group. The

30:10

membership of these groups always changes.

30:12

So let's say you, Paul and

30:15

I were a three

30:18

man unit when

30:20

we were sent out to maybe scout

30:22

for a place in New Orleans or near New

30:24

Orleans, right, and then well

30:27

let's say we hung out. We were we

30:30

just got too cool with each other. We

30:32

said, you know, well

30:34

this this has been a fun ride, but maybe

30:37

we should just stay in New Orleans, you know, start

30:39

a band, I played

30:41

the oboe or something whatever we

30:43

play in that situation. Well, that would

30:46

damage the overall group and

30:49

as a result, the membership of these

30:51

groups, these subgroups, these cells changes

30:54

frequently and they're

30:56

sent in different directions to prevent them

30:58

from getting any kind of relationship,

31:02

whether a friendships, something like a collegiate

31:04

thing or even romantic thing. Uh,

31:06

to prevent that from ever becoming

31:08

a competing focus. Right, And

31:12

it's a very effective way to control

31:14

people. The

31:17

the additional control

31:20

system for every cell is what's

31:22

called the elder. Yes, this is the

31:24

person who has been in the group the longest.

31:27

It's not we're not talking to elders as in the

31:30

oldest alive person. We're

31:32

talking about the oldest member of the group, right

31:35

right, the oldest in terms of if

31:37

we count them joining the church, yes, like

31:39

day one, absolutely, absolutely absolutely.

31:42

And then an elder is placed in charge

31:44

of each group or sell or camp,

31:47

whatever you want to call it. And these

31:49

elders, then, as these cells

31:51

function, take orders directly from

31:53

Roberts. Yes, and

31:56

there are they're

31:59

not going to be questioned by the

32:01

people who are beneath them.

32:03

They're just going to jump when they're

32:05

told to jump. Because

32:08

Brother Evangelist roberts to

32:10

change his name to Evangelists. By the way, he

32:13

has the first and last word on any

32:16

and all issues, questions,

32:19

declarations, and decisions. Furthermore,

32:23

they have stark gender

32:25

division with prescribed

32:28

duties for each person based on

32:30

Oh, and we should go ahead and say they only have the two

32:32

genders male

32:34

or female, and uh, and

32:36

what kind of stuff are they required to do? Well,

32:39

let's say you're a brother of the

32:41

brethren. You're gonna need to gather all

32:43

the food. You're gonna have to protect the

32:46

sisters physically, you're gonna have to

32:48

witness to people wherever you travel.

32:51

And then if you're a sister, you're

32:53

gonna have to cook and clean and so and

32:55

serve all the meals to the brothers, and

32:58

on top of that witness. So everybody's

33:00

got a full plate here of things to do. The

33:03

big issue here is that women are subservient

33:06

to the brothers. There's

33:08

and and you know that is

33:10

a biblical thing. If you're taking the

33:12

Bible literally, that is one thing that

33:15

you will find in there. Unfortunately,

33:19

but here's the weird thing for

33:21

a group of this kind, in my opinion, the weird

33:23

thing there is, according

33:25

to the Parents Network, there

33:28

is no sexual or intimate physical relationship

33:31

of any kind between

33:33

these members, the male and female members of the Brethren,

33:35

not even for the purposes of procreation.

33:37

No, just they are

33:41

I don't know that. They're brothers and sisters

33:43

literally anyway, right, soldiers

33:46

for their cause. The one common

33:48

task for both genders in this group is

33:50

to witness, in other words, to evangelize.

33:54

And that's a little bit about how they interact with

33:56

one another. But we have to get

33:59

to the biggest question, which

34:01

is this how do they interact

34:03

with the rest of the world. And we'll

34:05

get to that right after a word from our sponsor.

34:13

Here's where it gets crazy. It's

34:16

the end of the world as we know it, according

34:18

to the Brethren. And

34:22

while there is a

34:24

certain allure to the idea

34:26

of shucking off

34:29

all these social constraints and living

34:31

as a wandering ascetic or a monk or a none

34:33

of sorts, survivors of the group

34:35

and the relatives describe it as much

34:38

less romantic than we might believe,

34:40

much more oriented

34:43

toward the

34:45

belief in a coming apocalypse, right,

34:49

and much more rigid

34:51

than outsiders maybe initially lead

34:53

to think. So we talked

34:55

a little bit about their recruitment

34:57

tactic, or we we mentioned it, but

35:00

let's let's dive in. Let's dive in, because

35:02

I think long time listeners

35:04

are going to recognize some of these

35:06

tactics from earlier works. Right.

35:10

So, one of their

35:12

their big recruitment tactic of

35:14

quote unquote calling out people, finding

35:16

lonely, vulnerable college aged individuals

35:19

and converting them works as both

35:21

the carrot and a stick in a very

35:24

very smart and somewhat subtle

35:26

way, because the carrot

35:29

is hello, welcome, this is

35:31

the one true church. We are doing the literal

35:34

work of God, and you can be part

35:36

of this community, the only one that

35:38

will survive Judgment Day, the

35:40

only one. And along

35:42

the way you will experience such freedom as

35:45

you've never felt before, a freedom from

35:47

all financial incumbrance and material

35:49

goods. And if you don't go for that,

35:52

you get the stick. What's the stick? Oh?

35:55

You remember that thing Judgment Day

35:58

where everything burns and be comes

36:00

just charcoal on everywhere.

36:02

Well about that everybody

36:06

else on the planet, every other

36:08

human that you've ever met, that has ever existed.

36:11

They are damned and they've

36:13

well, here's here's why they've turned away from

36:15

the true church. Obviously, even mom

36:17

and dad. Yeah, even mom and dad. They didn't

36:20

accept the carrot. So there

36:22

you know they're going to hell. This

36:24

is literally the first and last chance.

36:26

This right here, me coming to you

36:28

and talking to you about my thing. This

36:30

is the last chance you get before just

36:34

fire. Well, I was going to go to biology

36:36

one o one, but now I'm freaked out. You're

36:38

gonna go to biology. Why what

36:41

are you gonna What are you gonna study in biology?

36:44

I was gonna be a doctor. Oh, I'd

36:47

recommend chemistry because all you're gonna have is carbon.

36:49

That's all that's gonna be here. Just carbon.

36:54

Uh. And at this point, I guess the prisonans

36:56

say, and you've convinced me away

36:59

with these Adidas that I'm wearing

37:01

away with this book of biology.

37:07

There's only one book I need, right, That's

37:09

that's how it would happen. It's this King James.

37:11

It's this King James specifically accept

37:13

no substitutions.

37:15

What's fascinating about this carrot and

37:17

this stick is it sets

37:20

the first precedent for interaction

37:22

between the initiatives and existing group

37:24

members, whether their brothers or sisters

37:27

or elders or what have you, because it

37:29

puts forth a dichotomy

37:33

and for the rest of their

37:36

lives, if they're in this church, there

37:39

is no gray area. There is only

37:41

the black white yes, no followed,

37:44

don't follow, salvation or

37:46

damnation for every decision,

37:48

which is amazing and terrifying.

37:52

Uh. And additionally,

37:55

as as you said, Matt, the inner hierarchy of

37:57

the church is absolutists. They're determined entirely

38:00

by when someone joined and how

38:02

long did been a member of the group. We found a

38:04

pretty interesting crowdsourced

38:07

interview from a survivor who

38:10

wished to remain anonymous, and

38:12

he said, if you joined the church one

38:14

week before someone else, you

38:17

had to quote obey that dude

38:19

as if he was a servant of God that was

38:21

sent to be your elder. The women that were

38:23

in the group for twenty years were to be subject

38:25

and obedient to a brother that was there for

38:27

only a year. Young women were

38:29

subject to everyone. One

38:32

thing that comes to mind is that there was a seventeen

38:35

year old boy there was an elder according

38:37

to the length of time that he was in the church, which

38:39

was all of his life, so members

38:42

must be totally subject to him,

38:44

even forty year olds. If you were fifty year old

38:46

and joined eight years ago, you were subject

38:49

to anything that seventeen

38:51

year old said, unless it was super unreasonable,

38:54

like told to do some atrocious act right

38:57

right, or told to do something physically

38:59

impossible. Yes, grow another

39:01

hand, no, out

39:04

of your but you

39:06

know, I I hopefully this

39:08

kid wasn't say that sort of stuff. But

39:10

yeah, it's it's entirely time

39:13

based. I

39:16

don't sorry, man, I just I went blue.

39:18

I went to blue. I'm

39:21

with you, I'm trying

39:23

it. Just no, please

39:25

don't try. No one listening

39:27

to attempt that. So that's

39:30

that that internal communication is troubling

39:34

communication with family and authorities.

39:37

This is where we find the really

39:39

sticky stuff and the most direct stuff.

39:42

They don't want you to know in regards

39:44

to this organization, whether

39:47

you want to call it a church, whether you want to call it a

39:49

spiritual movement, whether you want to call it a

39:51

cult. They do not want

39:53

you to know where they're going, what

39:55

they're doing, or why

39:58

they have been told old that

40:01

they must abjure,

40:04

hate and loathe everything

40:07

from their past life, their life

40:09

started over when they joined

40:11

the church. Yeah, there's no contact

40:13

with family members who are outside of the structure

40:16

whatsoever at all, unless,

40:19

of course jim himself,

40:21

old Jimmy says, hey, you can talk to

40:23

these guys, and if and if he

40:25

says it's okay, then it's okay. But

40:28

the majority of the time, just

40:30

parents, siblings, friends,

40:33

the rest of the family. They're just completely locked

40:35

out of the lives of the members of the Brethren, right,

40:38

and it can happen suddenly. You can reaccounts

40:40

detailing how Roberts would

40:42

instruct people to

40:45

isolate themselves or to

40:47

maintain contact and write a

40:50

letter to their parents. That's one of the first things they

40:52

did, to write a letter and say, hey, sorry, I can't

40:54

be in your life anymore, right, and I don't

40:56

want you to be all glory to

40:58

God. You know, this is consensual

41:01

on my part, That's what their letter says,

41:03

uh. And for it to be sent en route

41:06

while they are traveling by bike or by

41:08

bus often or occasionally

41:10

by train hopping. And I think if you

41:12

still do that. And additionally,

41:14

we have to mention several

41:16

of these these people who are joining this

41:19

movement or we're joining it are not

41:21

on necessarily on the fringes of society.

41:24

We're talking about the owners of multimillion dollar businesses.

41:26

We're talking about people who were

41:29

attending Harvard, which,

41:31

from what what you may have heard,

41:34

is an okay school, and

41:36

there throwing away all their

41:39

worldly possessions to to join

41:41

this thing. They're throwing away their relationships,

41:44

and they are chastised

41:47

if they attempt to reach out

41:50

to their parents. And you can see or their

41:52

parents, or their their spouse or whomever, and

41:55

you can see the way that this

41:57

splinters the group. But you can also just

41:59

imagine if you don't have access to a cell

42:01

phone, you'll have access to an internet connection

42:04

unless you go into a

42:06

library, right or unless

42:09

you find a quarter for a pay phone, you can you can

42:11

use a payphone if you can find one in That's

42:15

the only way you can communicate. I

42:18

guess you. You could also send a letter, but you

42:20

can't wait around for that letter

42:22

to return, because you don't know when you're

42:24

leader will tell you to move somewhere

42:26

else. You don't know where they're going to just tell you to move.

42:30

It's complete speculation. But I imagine

42:32

if word got to Roberts that you had

42:34

sent a letter of any kind to someone in

42:37

any way, you might get a notice

42:40

to get on the move, just because that idea

42:42

of you've got a from

42:44

address. You know there's a return address

42:46

on there, and that could you could

42:49

give up the whole cell awful

42:52

to thing about it that way, but you can. It's just so easy

42:54

to use a fake address. Just write

42:56

down a name of building in the zip code

42:59

where you happy to be mailing the letter from.

43:02

Yes, but when you mail the letter from that zip

43:04

code, it's going through the postal services

43:06

or however you got it there system,

43:09

and you're you know, you can at least get a rough

43:11

area of where it came from. That's true, that's

43:13

true. But who

43:16

doesn't love getting mail? Also in

43:18

this stage, I feel like I have to point

43:20

that out. You can always send

43:22

us mail, by the way, if you wish.

43:25

And that's a little bit of levity because we're going

43:28

into some dark territory here. Discussion

43:31

with outsiders is

43:33

only allowed to the extent that it encourages more

43:35

people to join the group, or that

43:37

it attends to a need

43:40

of the existing group. Discussion

43:43

internally, the way that we would understand

43:45

discussion is not allowed at all. Verboten,

43:48

the Germans would say, similar to the

43:50

Marines. Oddly enough, the Brethren follow

43:52

a strict chain of command. Wearing contradictions

43:55

are not only not allowed, they do

43:57

not exist. They're impossible. They are

43:59

impossible. That it's uh, it's

44:02

it's bad double plus I'm good, yeah,

44:04

exactly. Due to the eminent

44:07

approach of the end of days, single members

44:09

are banned from marrying, as, according

44:12

to Roberts, there's not enough time. In

44:14

other words, members are supposed to dedicate themselves

44:16

entirely just spreading the message of the church.

44:19

Couples with children were allowed

44:21

to join back in the day, but the

44:23

rules for those kids were incredibly strict,

44:25

including get this, a ban on playing,

44:28

which is just disastrous to me. That's

44:31

the way you become a human as you play.

44:34

And the bulk of their conversation

44:37

is conducted

44:40

through pay phones

44:42

only they

44:45

we don't know. In the modern day, for whichever

44:47

members of the Brethren are out there, we we still don't

44:49

know if they're

44:51

using burner phones not

44:53

as effective anymore as concealing for

44:56

concealing your location, they

44:58

still work. This work, and

45:01

you know, it's still better than buying

45:03

a cell phone service plan. When

45:06

you have renounced all worldly possessions. I

45:09

guess the cell phone is a worldly possession.

45:13

Yeah, but so we're closed, right, But

45:15

they make those? Do

45:17

you think they can make cell phones? Maybe

45:20

if they make self this changes everything

45:23

for me, I might think there.

45:25

I would just be impressed by the mcgiverishness

45:28

of it. Yeah, it's tough to dumpster dive

45:30

for all those rare earth minerals. But

45:32

maybe I don't know, who knows, maybe the recycling

45:35

program for electronics. So

45:39

in the darker

45:41

realm here we see the allegations

45:44

of abuse. The good news is

45:46

that they're not allegations that

45:49

we can find of sexual abuse,

45:51

other than forcing people

45:54

to ignore

45:56

their own sexuality, right, which

45:59

is a form of abuse. The

46:02

big thing we found was emotional abuse. Members

46:05

are held hostage to this group

46:07

by the fundamental belief that leaving

46:09

the Brethren is tantamount to

46:11

committing suicide. It's actually

46:14

worse than committing physical

46:16

suicide, because you are

46:18

sacrificing your soul.

46:21

Yeah, the real thing

46:23

that matters. And

46:25

when members

46:28

are suspected of straining off the path, they

46:30

are harshly warned they're probably putting a

46:32

new cell with strangers or

46:35

people they don't know very well, and

46:38

if they are ex members, they are

46:40

completely and successfully

46:43

shunned because,

46:46

you know, like the practice you've probably read

46:48

about with the Amish or maybe some other groups,

46:51

this group

46:53

will as a community,

46:56

as a unit, ghost on its ex members,

46:58

and they're very very very good

47:00

at hiding. At least,

47:03

you know, they don't sue the pants off of them

47:05

their ex members the way some other conversations

47:08

you know have m hm

47:11

anyway, Um, Lauren,

47:15

Yeah, that that's what it is, Laurent, laurn

47:19

hubbish Yep,

47:22

I'm almost there. Who is it? I

47:24

can't think of it. All I know. All I know is

47:27

that when it comes to going to the doctor

47:29

or getting medicine any kind of

47:31

prescription, there is some

47:33

weird stuff going on with a Brethren. Yeah.

47:37

The second the

47:40

second tier or type of abuse

47:42

would be negligence in terms

47:45

of medical treatment. You see, the Brethren

47:47

believe that the use of medicine and doctors

47:49

does not give the example of living by

47:51

faith. That's a quote. So

47:53

in some cases members are believed to

47:55

have died from curable conditions or

47:57

injuries do entirely to the group's position

48:00

to modern medical treatment or

48:03

any medical treatment. So

48:06

for anyone wondering why we're using the phrase

48:09

are believed to have, it's

48:11

because again, a lot of people go off the

48:14

grid. And like we discussed

48:16

in our Missing for one one episode, is a couple

48:19

of other things. It is still

48:21

in the age of GPS and spookily

48:24

sophisticated satellites. It is still possible

48:26

to this disappear in this country

48:29

easier in fact than you might think,

48:31

certainly and disturbingly

48:33

so correct. But they have found some

48:35

people, right, yes, they have, and some

48:37

people have come forward. Some We

48:40

found a Reddit thread where people were discussing

48:43

this group and a couple of people saying

48:45

that they were four members. Um,

48:48

it's out there, m hm, and you can

48:50

get out. And that's the big thing.

48:53

I don't know how you would be listening to this if

48:56

you are um a

48:58

member. It's much more likely that

49:00

family members of someone who became

49:03

a part of Brethren is actually listening

49:05

to these words. And let's

49:08

let's take a moment in describe

49:11

perhaps what you can do. The

49:13

first thing that we found when

49:15

we were looking into this is something called

49:17

the Roberts Group Parents Network,

49:20

and it has a website n f

49:23

I s H E L dot

49:25

tripod dot com. It's

49:27

an old tripod website. It's

49:30

pretty great though, if you go through there.

49:32

The mission of the website says in

49:34

the group is to release

49:36

the members of the control of the Roberts

49:38

Group and established two way communication and

49:41

an open and loving relationship between

49:43

members and their families. So they

49:45

just want to reconnect family members

49:47

with members of the Roberts

49:49

Group, right, And it goes

49:51

on to say that if you recognize

49:54

anyone on these pages, or if you

49:56

suspect your loved one is a part of the Roberts Group,

49:58

we empathize with you. We know the pain

50:00

you feel and deeply regret that you share our

50:03

situation. On the other hand, we'd like to

50:05

welcome you into our fellowship. We've

50:07

been brought together from all parts of the country

50:09

by our common loss. Our sorrow

50:11

is the same. In supporting each other,

50:14

we find new strength to make

50:16

it through one day at a time and the new

50:18

hope that we will be reunited with the loved ones

50:20

that were taken from our lives. So

50:22

really, I mean, it's it's a sobering

50:25

thing to go through that website because it describes

50:28

exactly the types of people

50:31

that are usually joining this group.

50:34

UM. It talks about

50:36

in full the scriptures, It talks about how

50:39

the recruiting occurs, and their even letters

50:41

there written to the sons

50:43

and daughters of people who have joined the group

50:45

and chosen to leave their family behind. UM.

50:49

I would say this

50:52

is probably a good group to join if

50:55

you are dealing

50:57

with something like this. If you don't like to join groups,

50:59

maybe you don't do that. If you're suspicious of all

51:01

groups. Now at this point I

51:04

can I would understand that. However,

51:06

this is one to at least look at. Yeah,

51:08

well said met and agreed. And

51:12

currently this brings

51:14

us up to speed on the

51:17

background and the nature of

51:19

the very very secretive

51:21

group traveling off the

51:23

grid entirely here in the US

51:25

and possibly in Canada, Mexico at times

51:28

known as the Brethren or

51:31

thanks to the

51:33

garbage Eaters. We

51:35

do have one last piece of news

51:37

here in conclusion, Brother

51:40

evangelist Jim Roberts passed

51:42

away at the age of seventies

51:45

six in twenty fifteen,

51:48

likely due to cancer. He

51:50

had not seen a doctor in forty

51:53

years who was practicing

51:55

what he preached UM, and

51:58

he had been alternately described vibed as a

52:00

sweet and harmless man or

52:03

a quote paranoid meglomaniac

52:06

who wanted to control every aspect

52:09

of his followers lives.

52:12

As of a few years ago, the population

52:14

of the group, which was never super super large,

52:16

had reduced to around sixty or

52:19

so members. Are they still out

52:21

there today riding the rails

52:23

somewhere? Is there still someone who wants

52:27

to contact their

52:29

loved ones and people from the life

52:31

they left behind, but are

52:33

too intimidated to do so. These

52:36

are open questions. We do

52:39

not know the answer, and there are very few

52:41

people who do. Many of those who

52:43

do know the answer, I

52:46

don't want to be found. I

52:49

don't know where we go from here, Ben, Besides

52:52

just saying, beliefs are tricky

52:54

things. They they

52:56

they can be like viruses. Sometimes

53:00

they function almost exactly like virus.

53:02

Is a good belief can spread and

53:05

infect and reproduce itself

53:07

in the minds of others, which

53:09

is a beautiful thing and a terrifying

53:11

thing. And one of the

53:14

most important parts of this show that

53:16

we have to touch on here is the

53:18

following. If you are or someone

53:20

you know is involved in a

53:24

cult like group,

53:26

or let's say, if we don't want to use

53:28

the c word uh. Let's say an

53:31

organization that is forcing

53:33

them to do things against their will

53:35

and isolating them. And you're starting to

53:37

see some of these red flags. Do

53:40

not be afraid to reach out two

53:43

groups like the Jim

53:45

Roberts parent group that you mentioned,

53:47

Matt. Don't be afraid to call

53:49

someone for advice or look on

53:51

forums. The resources are

53:54

there, and many times

53:56

it sounds easy to say, oh,

53:58

there's nothing physically keeping someone

54:00

in a spot, but we

54:02

must remember that the heaviest,

54:05

strongest chains we

54:07

have ever put on a human being

54:10

are always chains of ideas, not

54:12

change of steel or iron, and

54:14

the chains that exists in your mind, and

54:17

sometimes you need help to be free

54:19

of them. You can find Ben and Nolan

54:21

I on Twitter where we're conspiracy Stuff,

54:24

the same on Facebook. On Instagram

54:26

we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. We

54:28

have a website stuff they don't want you to know,

54:30

where you can find every podcast we've ever made

54:32

and some videos and other stuff on there.

54:35

You can call us we are one

54:37

eight three three st d w

54:40

y t K. Leave a message and

54:42

you might end up on a show sometime in

54:45

the near future. And if you don't want to do

54:47

any of that, you can send your suggestions

54:49

or your questions, or your comments to conspiracy

54:53

at how stuff works dot com,

55:02

m