0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or learn

0:09

the stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of I Heart Radio Welcome

0:24

back to the show. My name is Matt, my

0:26

name is all they called me Ben. We

0:29

are joined as always with our super producer,

0:31

Paul Mission controlled deconds. Most

0:33

importantly, you are you, You

0:35

are here, and that makes this stuff

0:38

they don't want you to know. This

0:41

is a doozy. Trying to figure out

0:43

an entry point into this story was

0:46

pretty tricky. Uh. Let's

0:48

just say cults exclamation

0:50

mark, question mark, cults

0:52

and family strife right

0:55

right. Uh. Today's story

0:57

takes us to Brazil, and

0:59

we want to start by thanking multiple

1:02

listeners, including friend of the show E

1:04

m W for hipping us to

1:06

this very strange case that is

1:08

currently unfolding. A

1:11

lot of times we're careful when

1:13

we explore unfolding cases

1:15

because the information may change,

1:18

you know, at any given moment. But

1:20

we're going to give you the facts as

1:22

they stand now. You're right, Matt.

1:24

This story includes family at

1:27

the heart of it, right, which

1:29

is misleading lye wholesome in the sound

1:32

it includes allegations of cults, gospel,

1:35

government, conspiracy, and crime.

1:37

This is the yet unfinished story

1:39

of Floor Delish do Santos de Salsa.

1:43

We are not Portuguese speakers, so

1:45

please pardon any mispronunciation

1:48

speed bumps here. Uh the name might be unfamiliar

1:50

to a lot of our fellow listeners outside

1:53

of Brazil, so it's it's

1:56

tough to figure out how to unravel this Gordian

1:58

nod of grizzly crime.

2:02

Let's start at the beginning. Here

2:04

are the facts for anybody who was not brazilient

2:07

who is Floria de Leash, Yeah,

2:09

Florida list dos Santos

2:12

de Susa. Hope I did that? Okay. Was

2:14

born in uh in a favela

2:16

in Rio de Janeiro, and that's essentially

2:19

a slum. If anyway, if anyone's ever seen UM

2:21

the movie City of God, that's a great kind

2:24

of inroad into the little

2:26

bit of the politics, the crime, inner workings,

2:28

and also the living situations of this

2:31

part of the country. Um

2:33

Florida Lee's early life was

2:35

defined by a lot of tragedy,

2:39

but also kind of the

2:41

notion of being saved and and being

2:43

taken in by religion. UM in

2:45

a very very transformative way.

2:47

At the age of fourteen, she lost both her

2:49

father and her brother in

2:51

a car accident um, and she found

2:54

peace and comfort and solace

2:57

in church. In the church. When

2:59

she was very very young, her family was active

3:01

in evangelical communities,

3:03

and as a child Florida Lee would

3:06

visit different churches which

3:08

were referred to in

3:10

the area often as evangelical cults

3:13

um. And she was a big part

3:15

of the what we guys, I guess you could probably describe

3:17

as gospel singing um in

3:20

various church choirs, but it was much more of that

3:23

very kind of highly

3:26

energetic and almost a

3:28

form of a reverie that you

3:30

you know, experience where there like the word of the

3:32

God is moving through you and song, yeah,

3:35

and song. Music

3:37

within the church really would be one

3:39

of the biggest defining things

3:42

in her life. I mean also as well

3:44

as the tragedy also that we've we've

3:46

mentioned there, um, But the

3:49

music is what ends up making

3:52

this a story that we are telling you about

3:55

right now in this weird way, the

3:57

music takes her on this path to

4:00

uh to where a lead

4:02

really yeah, yeah, that's a very

4:04

good point, Matt. So she

4:07

was, like many many people

4:10

of faith in Brazil. She was active in

4:12

the evangelical movement. She

4:16

lived a very wholesome

4:18

life from the outside. Eventually she

4:20

married, she had several children, and

4:22

she was later tragically abandoned

4:25

by her husband. But her charitable

4:28

work began attracting

4:30

media attention. In

4:33

n when she was thirty

4:35

two years old, she began conducting

4:37

social work programs to assist impoverished

4:40

drug users, drug abuse being

4:42

a you know, a huge problem in a lot of low

4:44

income areas of the world,

4:46

not just Brazil. And

4:49

she met one Anderson, Docarmo

4:52

Desosa. She would

4:54

go on to Mary Anderson. There

4:56

is way more to this story, but

4:59

just remember those as for now. There

5:01

was also a market age difference

5:03

floora Delicia was sixteen years

5:05

older than Anderson. Uh,

5:07

you know, no judgment. A lot of people

5:09

have beautiful relationships with age

5:12

differences, right. And she reached

5:14

another incredibly unusual

5:17

milestone that same year she

5:20

adopted children. And

5:22

you know, a lot of us in the audience

5:24

today we are maybe

5:26

adopted ourselves, or we have

5:28

adopted children, or we know someone who

5:31

has, and we know that it can

5:33

be a tremendously

5:35

difficult process, right, I

5:37

think we talked about foreign adoptions too in the past

5:39

briefly. But what made

5:42

what way floora delicias adoption

5:46

process so unique? Well,

5:48

and she didn't adopt one child or

5:51

you know, maybe siblings or something.

5:53

She adopted um

5:56

victims of a tragedy, children

5:59

whose family These were killed

6:01

in a major incident there

6:04

in the favela where she lived, and

6:06

there were thirty seven children

6:09

that she adopted. M hmm,

6:13

yeah, you heard that correctly, thirty seven

6:15

all at once. By the way, there's

6:17

a strange note, they're

6:20

right, a little bit of a discordant news in

6:22

our song or an inspiring

6:24

one, depending on how familiar you become

6:26

with this story. It didn't

6:29

stop there. As of today,

6:33

Floor Delish has a total of four

6:35

biological children and more

6:37

than fifty adopted children.

6:39

She did not stop at thirty seven. This,

6:41

this massive adoption

6:45

was seen as an unbelievable,

6:47

almost superhuman active charity.

6:50

It catapulted her into the

6:52

public eye as one of the kindest,

6:55

most wholesome people in the

6:57

country. And now there's

7:00

even a film based on her life. The

7:03

English title is Floor Delish. It

7:05

takes but one word to change

7:07

basta. It's

7:10

also like it's um starring a

7:12

lot of very very big names in Brazilian

7:15

cinema, So I mean she is absolutely a

7:17

household name, and the story would have

7:19

resonated, uh in the same way a story

7:21

about like a massive

7:23

celebrity or political figure here in the United

7:25

States would have. So it was like a big deal over there,

7:28

but we just don't really get any of that over here.

7:30

It's something we had to kind of do a lot of digging for. It's

7:32

interesting. Yeah, think about

7:34

that. Uh,

7:36

A woman decides to take

7:39

on the lives of all of

7:41

these children, to support

7:43

them, to be the mother to

7:45

them, right, I mean, that's incredible,

7:48

and and she's continuing to do that.

7:50

You can totally imagine why that part of

7:52

her life, that that story in her

7:54

life is worth making a film

7:57

about that. That's and in

7:59

um, that's an inspiring thing if

8:01

that's all you know. And

8:06

yeah, this is this is comparable in

8:08

some ways to UH

8:10

to the fame enjoyed by Mother Teresa

8:13

in her heyday before the UH

8:17

the abuse witnesses came

8:19

out. You're right, noal about

8:22

the actors. These are Brazilian

8:24

A list stars, the kinds

8:26

of people who make millions as

8:29

actors. Many of them refused

8:32

to be paid for their performances because

8:34

they thought they were doing a kind

8:36

of a good deed a mitzvah by

8:38

by spreading the story of

8:40

this this legendary um

8:43

grace, you know, this near saintly

8:45

action. And the profits from the

8:48

film, which did quite well, went

8:50

to support her enormous

8:53

family. And so now here

8:55

we are, if we're her, Uh, we

8:57

have again a

9:00

gigantic family. We

9:02

have at the very least

9:05

become one of the most popular, well

9:07

known people in Brazil or

9:09

all of Latin America. We

9:11

finally have enough money to buy a

9:14

new house. What's

9:16

what's next? And all of this led

9:19

to I mean, first of all, she's got

9:21

this almost saintly kind of profile

9:23

in in in her in her country. Um.

9:26

And all of this leads to a very

9:29

high profile and fascinating

9:32

multi tiered career that

9:34

we're going to talk a little bit more about after

9:36

one quick sponsor break and

9:45

we're back. Um, as we were talking

9:47

about before the break, Uh, you

9:49

know, flor de Ly is almost attained

9:51

already this kind of legendary

9:54

status. These you know, a lists

9:56

Brazilian actors are saying, no,

9:59

I refused to take any salary I want

10:01

to do this service, you know, to this

10:03

amazing human being, to spread the word,

10:06

to tell her story. Um, you

10:08

really hit right on the headband very much

10:10

a Mother Teresa type figure. So

10:13

that's the film is an absolute

10:15

blockbuster in Brazil. Um. She

10:17

then uses that cloud and

10:20

notoriety to pursue

10:22

her her first love. I guess after

10:24

God would have been singing about God

10:27

gospel music. She already has this

10:29

kind of captive audience, this this fan

10:31

base that she just wants to grow, um

10:33

even further, and she

10:35

does just that. Um, because

10:38

she's basically this cult of personality

10:40

at this point. Um, she's this absolutely

10:43

curated cult of personality.

10:45

And should you wish,

10:48

wait till the end of this episode, But should you wish,

10:50

you can find her music on YouTube,

10:52

and you can find her albums on Spotify.

10:56

I strongly advise

10:58

you wait for the rest to the

11:00

episode before you make that decision. But

11:03

she she wasn't, she

11:05

wasn't alone in her rise

11:07

to fame because her husband, Anderson was no

11:10

uh, no sit

11:13

at home kind of guy, right right, No,

11:15

Now, he was out there pounding the

11:17

pavement for the Lord as well. Yeah,

11:20

he's an enormously successful

11:22

evangelical pastor. Uh.

11:25

You can read a little bit more about

11:27

the rise of the evangelical

11:30

movement in the Atlantic. There's a great

11:32

article called the Rise of the Brazilian Evangelicals

11:35

that gives gives a good sense of the

11:37

cultural context. But for

11:40

for our purposes today, just picture Anderson

11:43

as the

11:46

one of the most famous religious

11:48

figures in your part of the world, right, living

11:50

religious figures. I mean it's not quite

11:52

the Pope, of course, but he

11:54

is. He is someone that

11:57

is very well known. If you're an evangelical

11:59

in Brazil, were very much aware of this man,

12:01

that he and his wife are a

12:04

countrywide power couple.

12:06

Right, but things are things are

12:08

getting weird behind the curtain. Things

12:11

are definitely getting weird. By the way, I imagine

12:13

Anderson as Robert

12:15

Tilton. I don't know if you remember that guy, but that's who

12:18

I imagine him as in my head. I

12:20

don't know if any of you know who Robert Tilton is.

12:23

He He became famous for

12:25

his compilations or compilations that were made

12:27

of him where where he flatulates

12:30

a lot, but he's not really. But it's

12:32

the farting preacher. If you don't know what that is, then the

12:35

famous preacher. Yeah,

12:38

but Robert Tilton is a real preacher

12:40

and he's a real evangelical guy.

12:42

But I'm just imagining this guy as

12:45

that. It's it might not be a good one

12:47

to one, but that's what I've got in

12:49

my head. Um. I used to watch him

12:51

when I was a kid growing up. Really weird stuff.

12:53

Is he is the farting just part of his stick

12:55

or is it just happening to video catching him

12:58

farting. No, he's not actually hooting

13:00

at all. There's no there's no tooting whatsoever.

13:03

It's just something the Internet made

13:06

anyway. Sorry, that's just how people know him,

13:09

I guess. Now, So the problem

13:11

here is you've got you've got several avenues

13:13

of money for this family, right, You've got

13:15

anything that's like coming in from that movie

13:18

that was made. You've got Anderson's

13:20

stuff going on over here with the evangelical

13:23

church, all the money, I guess the

13:25

money that comes in tax free, uh,

13:28

for all of that. Then you've also got

13:30

her whole career as a singer, right,

13:32

there's money coming in there. You've got really three

13:34

major tiers of money. I'm assuming

13:37

there's other stuff too, with the real estate or other things

13:39

that we just don't know about our privy. We're

13:41

not privy too. But Anderson really

13:43

starts grabbing the reins for all

13:45

of that stuff. He starts taking

13:47

over all of the family finances.

13:50

And in a lot of relationships,

13:53

controller finances can become a

13:55

major issue, and in this family

13:58

it became a very big problem.

14:00

Oh no kidding, yeah, I mean financial

14:03

imbalance leads us to

14:06

the problem of hierarchy

14:08

and consent, right Can someone

14:10

consent to one who controls

14:12

them? Can they truly do? So? That's it's a huge

14:16

problem with human society, and it's compounded

14:19

when the stakes are this high. I would

14:21

add one more income stream,

14:23

which would be um non

14:25

church related donations to the family,

14:27

but those are those are inconsistent,

14:30

you know. Uh So Anderson

14:34

is not just taking control of

14:36

the family finances, He's

14:38

also taking control in a

14:41

way. He's almost fighting

14:44

a cold war with lor Delia over

14:47

the over like

14:49

things as small as the chores in

14:52

the house, over the

14:54

decision making process for

14:56

the family and this

14:59

small all army of children. And

15:04

we want to plant that scene. That's that's what's

15:07

happening behind the scenes. But if you were the average Brazilian

15:09

at this point, it's still hunky dory,

15:11

you know what I mean. Mother Teresa got married

15:14

and these children are growing up, they're

15:16

doing well. What an inspiration.

15:20

This fame, this religious

15:22

base, and this secular fame

15:25

in music became

15:27

a wonderful avenue into

15:29

politics. There was a calculation

15:32

here and Florida de Las first

15:34

ran for a city council position

15:37

in two thousand and four, then

15:39

she ran for mayoral position

15:42

in two thousand and sixteen, and

15:44

in two thousand nineteen. Very

15:46

recently, to give you a sense of how the story

15:48

develops, she was elected

15:51

to the federal Congress

15:53

in Rio. She was I think she got

15:55

two d votes. She's

15:57

commonly referred to in the Brazilian media is

16:00

the most voted woman for Congress,

16:03

meaning that she was the most popular candidate

16:05

there. And there's absolutely no denying

16:08

that her religious backgrounds, her charity

16:10

work all played a role in this election.

16:12

I mean, if you had the chance to vote for someone

16:14

you genuinely believed was

16:17

the nicest person post Jesus

16:19

Christ, how could you not well. Brazil

16:22

is also like infamous for having one of the

16:24

most corrupt political systems like on

16:26

the planet. I mean, apparently

16:28

there are so many people that just like us

16:31

their vote as a protest vote and just make

16:33

up like joke candidates because the

16:36

kind of I don't know, status

16:38

quo is so corrupt and everybody knows it,

16:40

they don't even want to participate in it. Like I think in the

16:42

fifties, black rhino

16:45

um got more of the popular vote

16:47

for like a city council position in sal Polo,

16:50

but obviously couldn't couldn't be elected because

16:52

you know, it's a black rhino um. But

16:55

it makes sense to your point been that someone like

16:57

this would be just seen as a beacon of

17:00

light in such a you know, rotten

17:02

and corrupt system. Yeah, we've

17:05

got a quote here from

17:07

uh Camara dot

17:09

l e G dot b R website.

17:12

Here it's um Camaro

17:15

dos Deputados UH

17:17

and it's just a quick quote from

17:19

her when she was elected.

17:23

I'm just gonna read that to you right now. Says

17:25

I will fight for the family, for life, for

17:27

the woman. I also want to look for

17:29

resources for the communities, for the construction

17:32

of sports courts in areas at risk.

17:34

I will fight for children and adolescents

17:36

to have an occupation and the

17:38

traffic does not embrace them. Now that has

17:40

gone through Google Translate, and it is not

17:43

perfect um, but you

17:45

can at least get a sense in English

17:48

of what she's fighting for, and

17:50

you can see that, you know, those are values that

17:52

I think a lot of us would want to support.

17:54

On the face if you're going to go into a voting

17:57

booth and cast your vote for somebody that

17:59

maybe you identify with, Yeah,

18:01

who's gonna disagree? What what?

18:04

Who You're gonna vote for? The monsters in

18:06

the race? That I mean, it reminds

18:08

me of the way that so many sketchy,

18:11

uh private or government

18:14

institutions and initiatives always have

18:16

these innocuous, benign names like

18:18

Project for a New American Century

18:21

or you know, children

18:23

and Puppies Playing Incorporated.

18:27

It's it's calculated right

18:29

there. You you would feel like a bad person if

18:31

you didn't cast that vote. Perhaps

18:34

it's an appeal to a to emotion,

18:36

and it's quite effective. When she

18:38

becomes a federal deputy for the state

18:41

of Rio de Janeiro, and at

18:44

the time of this recording early

18:47

September, she technically

18:49

retains this position today. Unfortunately,

18:55

as so often happens

18:58

in life, she

19:00

met with triumph and disaster.

19:03

You know, one in each hand. That

19:05

same year, her

19:08

husband, the evangelical leader

19:10

Anderson, was found murdered.

19:13

Police began investigating. His

19:16

body was found as he you know, he

19:18

had been clearly returning home on the

19:20

night of June six. The

19:23

family claimed that Anderson

19:25

had been murdered in a botched

19:28

robbery attempt. And this

19:32

is perhaps where our story

19:34

actually begins. Here's

19:38

where it gets crazy. So

19:42

the police are very well aware of who

19:44

this woman is, right, they think

19:46

the same very They

19:48

have the same kind of public image burned in their

19:50

minds as everybody else. But

19:53

they have to do their job, so they

19:55

begin investigating, and that's when

19:57

they discover some bizarre facts. We talked

19:59

about that age difference earlier.

20:02

There's a reason that floor Del is

20:05

uh sixteen years older that her husband.

20:07

Yea, yeah, you see,

20:10

before he was her spouse,

20:13

he was her adopted son. Oh,

20:15

I feel like we get a dunt Dunn sound

20:17

cue there, And that's like the twist

20:20

in the movie. Oh yeah,

20:22

maybe that's in the sequel for the two thousand

20:24

million films. Before the

20:27

two married, Anderson also

20:29

dated one of one of Floria

20:31

dilliss other children, biological

20:34

child named Simul that's

20:37

right. When Simone and Anderson broke

20:39

up, Anderson and Florida

20:41

Les began dating then.

20:45

So police also found that before adopting

20:47

that total of fifty one

20:49

children, Florida Les had

20:52

a smaller family of about

20:54

seven children. Um. The

20:56

older kids, the biological

20:58

kids, and the first five adopted kids were considered

21:01

the A kids. Let

21:04

that sink in for a second. Yeah,

21:07

and then if you got an A team, you

21:09

got you gotta have a B team.

21:11

And that's what the other kids were considered, the be

21:13

kids. The eight kids

21:15

could go to certain they had like

21:17

free run of the house basically, Uh,

21:20

they had all the privileges. The

21:22

other kids were confined

21:24

to certain parts of the house. Uh.

21:27

They also received better food. Um.

21:30

The younger children were given

21:33

nothing but scraps in the b the

21:35

B kids old pasta, you

21:38

know, stale bread, stuff

21:40

like that that you would probably typically

21:42

feed to like the dog or or toss.

21:46

Yeah, and this is important.

21:48

People were not aware of this hierarchy

21:51

outside of the family for a long time.

21:53

Uh. This is what witnesses

21:56

are talking about when they say

21:58

that the public image did not match

22:00

the practice in private. Reportedly,

22:04

the parents kept

22:07

so many children as kind of a marketing

22:10

employ and a source of income,

22:13

so it was perhaps not as altruistic

22:16

as it appeared to be in the media.

22:19

One deputy involved with the homicide

22:22

case has said that the

22:24

money from the ministry

22:27

was directly used to maintain the

22:30

luxuries to which this

22:32

individual had become accustomed. That's

22:35

right. And there's

22:37

one other thing here, but

22:39

you know what, it's the

22:41

next part is really messed up, and

22:44

we're gonna save it until we

22:46

get back from this next break, and we'll tell

22:48

you why.

22:51

This very strange situation.

22:53

As we're beginning to see it come to shape,

22:56

woo, it gets weirder, and

22:59

there may have

23:01

been, as we said at the top, some kind

23:03

of cult going on here. We'll

23:06

tell you right after this break we've

23:15

returned. Um,

23:17

anybody with siblings knows that

23:20

the feeling of favoritism is a horrible

23:22

thing, even if it's just kind

23:24

of a narrative we've made up in our

23:26

own minds, this is real favoritism,

23:29

and this was dangerous. There were allegations of abuse,

23:31

but there were also first hand reports,

23:35

eyewitness reports, and allegations

23:37

of a cult. The following

23:39

material may not be suitable for

23:42

all listeners. One

23:44

of these sons, adopted by the couple,

23:47

told the media that in

23:49

the nineteen nineties he was forced

23:51

to undergo an initiation process

23:54

to become a member of the family. He was

23:56

isolated, locked in a room addressed

23:59

all in white. He was

24:01

on a subsistence diet of vegetables

24:04

and rice. He

24:07

said that he witnessed other children using

24:09

their blood to write psalms

24:12

in religious rights, and eventually

24:16

he was forced to undergo

24:18

a purification ritual. This

24:21

purification ritual was that

24:25

was sleeping with his adopted mother. Twist

24:28

number two. Yeah,

24:32

well, yeah, that's a rough one. And again,

24:34

these are alleged things, right,

24:37

Um, it certainly

24:40

isn't to say that we don't believe these children

24:42

and you know younger adults who

24:44

they're younger adults now who are coming forward and seeing these kinds

24:46

of things. Um, but they

24:49

are alleged at this point. We have to we

24:52

have to keep that in there just so you're

24:54

aware. Yeah, and as you said Ben

24:56

at the top of the show, this is an ongoing story. So

24:59

we're reporting what we know based on things

25:02

that have been that have come to light thus

25:04

far, and it is developing, so more

25:06

of this will be confirmed. Or or what what

25:08

whatever where there's going to be more information

25:10

that's going to come out in the coming months

25:13

and and beyond yea the

25:15

fog of war, right such

25:18

as for a battlefield. If

25:20

this stuff is true, it has the

25:22

makings of a cult. And

25:25

we are typically on this show pretty

25:28

pretty careful with the C word because

25:31

one person's cult is eight other person's

25:33

deeply held religious belief system,

25:36

So we have to be careful, uh

25:39

with this, But it does it does

25:41

seem pretty cult. Like there were

25:43

other strange religious rituals, bizarre

25:45

sexual rights, yes, all all kinds

25:47

of things. I just wanted to bring up our past discussions

25:50

of cults in One of the primary ways

25:53

to identify a cult is

25:55

whether or not there are people being

25:57

targeted for recruitment who

26:00

are at the lowest levels

26:02

on their luck right there. The they're

26:04

not doing well, they have nowhere

26:06

to turn to, and then the cult or

26:09

the organization reaches a handout and

26:11

says, hey, we're here for you. Let

26:13

us be the ones who take you in.

26:16

And you know, I can't see

26:18

for sure that's what happened with all

26:20

of those children that were taken in by

26:23

by the family early on, but my

26:26

goodness. I mean, who wouldn't

26:28

be better to be shaped

26:31

mind and body, everything, but

26:35

younger people who lost

26:37

their families. That is a really good

26:39

point that this reminds me

26:42

where you're going. Uh. We do. We

26:44

did construct guide

26:47

a checklist for

26:49

the defining characteristics of a cult. Check

26:52

out our video on YouTube dot com

26:54

slash conspiracy stuff. This

26:56

done. As you mentioned this,

26:58

Matt, this does tick a lot of

27:01

the boxes that we mentioned in that video. Deprivation

27:04

of material goods and sleep.

27:07

Uh, task that you can never quite accomplish

27:10

to the satisfaction of your

27:12

superiors. Control

27:14

of sexual relationships, that's a big

27:16

one in cults. Uh.

27:19

And also physical abuse. You know. Floyd

27:21

de Leash was known to keep up. Was alleged

27:24

to have a baseball bat that she kept handy

27:26

to hit the children, usually the

27:28

b kids that she found misbehaving.

27:31

Her biological daughter Simone

27:33

was kind of an overseer and used

27:35

as a spy. Yeah. I mean

27:37

just it's just it's

27:40

so disturbing, and you

27:42

know that again that is all happening

27:45

here. But the other thing is the

27:47

thing we mentioned at the top of the show, a murder.

27:50

The husband was murdered and

27:53

just before we jump into the

27:56

unfolding events that are having right now and what went down

27:58

over the course of a couple of days there. I

28:01

wanted to mention something that I'm not proud

28:03

of. I for a

28:05

long time would frequent the website live

28:07

leak dot com. It's nothing against

28:09

live leak as an organization. I don't know anything

28:11

about you. Live Leak not talking

28:14

down to you in any way, but the content

28:16

that's posted there is often very grizzly

28:19

or something I don't want to watch, but

28:21

almost almost feel like I have

28:23

to watch sometimes when whenever we're

28:25

reporting on something where there's a video

28:28

that the news won't show or

28:30

you know, some of the organization won't put up

28:32

in post or repost, live leak

28:34

generally is going to have it. And one

28:38

thing that there's there's one type

28:41

of video that has posted there a lot, and

28:43

it is robberies

28:46

that occur in and around Rio

28:48

Rio de Janeiro, and a lot

28:50

of times it they are attempted

28:53

robberies as a vehicle is

28:55

coming home to their house

28:58

and they're generally gate This

29:00

is a massive generalization. It's not true for every

29:02

home, but if there is a gated area

29:04

for that home, many of these videos

29:07

feature someone trying to get into that gate,

29:09

or stopping the gate from closing, or ambushing

29:12

someone just as it's occurring. I

29:14

just want to put that in your mind as a

29:17

very common, not extremely

29:19

common occurrence. I'm not going to paint the entire city

29:21

region Rio de Janeiro is a dangerous place

29:24

like that, but it is an unfortunate side

29:26

effect of having vast

29:29

inequality existing in such close

29:31

quarters, um in a city.

29:34

And it's also it's a point to the plausibility

29:38

of what happens next, right, and what we're what

29:40

we're about to hear. Yeah, So

29:43

the police investigation, it starts

29:45

with a tragic but plausible event,

29:48

and police learned that things were,

29:51

as we alluded to earlier, not well

29:54

in the house, you know, when the cameras

29:56

were off and when no one is doing interviews.

29:59

Things were the chaotic leading up

30:01

to the day of the homicide. Again

30:03

on June six, Anderson, you

30:05

see, wanted a divorce.

30:08

Floria Delis was against this BIB

30:11

for several reasons. First, financial

30:14

reasons, a divorce would create

30:17

pandemonium in the family because if they

30:19

split it fifty fifty. Think about it this

30:21

way, Uh, Anderson would get

30:24

of the family fortune, and then everybody

30:26

else UM probably waited

30:29

toward Flora Delicia in the eight kids. Everybody

30:31

else would have to split the other half between

30:33

fifty plus people. That was

30:35

a non starter. And then the second reason

30:38

is we have to consider this carefully crafted

30:41

public image. A divorce

30:44

would be a terrible, terrible look

30:46

for such a highly regarded religious

30:48

family. And there are quotes from

30:51

Florida last to self saying we

30:54

can't divorce. It would be scandalous

30:56

to God. So with

30:58

with that note, it does for all that at

31:01

least in that because that was an internal

31:03

explanation to some of the adopted children.

31:06

It feels like maybe

31:08

there's some genuine belief there

31:11

in terms of religious values,

31:14

but it's kind of hard to square with the

31:16

later behavior. Okay,

31:19

So outside of the

31:22

divorce, the tensions

31:24

that were existing there between Florida

31:26

Lesh and Anderson to the compo,

31:29

I believe Um Anderson,

31:32

there was some other family tension

31:34

going on between some

31:37

of the children and

31:39

Anderson the father, right,

31:41

the father of the family, UM, and

31:45

and it's you know, this is stuff that we're reading specifically

31:48

the English sources. I are British,

31:50

I believe the ones that we're looking at, BBC, the

31:52

Guardian. Uh, that's mostly

31:55

where I'm looking at sources for this.

31:57

But there are stories that are

31:59

coming out about what is

32:01

going down about perhaps

32:04

what the what some officials

32:06

know, some law enforcement officials, but it's

32:09

a bit tough to know exactly where some

32:11

of the some of the information is coming from.

32:14

UM. Well, we'll alert you whenever we can

32:16

tell you like it more specifics.

32:19

But here's here's the story that we know

32:21

as of right now on

32:24

what is this September nine, today September

32:27

apparently Florida leash

32:30

and at least one daughter, Simone,

32:34

we're attempting to poison Anderson

32:36

prior to his death

32:39

several times, according to the stories

32:41

there exactly

32:45

uh seven. There were some

32:47

weird things going on with internet

32:49

searches with Simone where she

32:51

had been looking up how to use what

32:54

were they talking about? Cyanide? I think cyanide.

32:57

It's it's strange to see people's net

33:00

searches. It's stuff like poison

33:02

that is legal assassin where

33:05

to find you know, Uh,

33:07

authorities, if you're out there, don't ever

33:09

look at our internet. I

33:12

think about that every time they get a new

33:15

every time the company changes

33:17

ownership or we get a new I t person.

33:20

I always think, just for a second, should

33:22

I send them an email or should I just let

33:25

this surprise be something they they

33:27

uncover organically.

33:29

It's about the journey. But you're right, Uh,

33:32

there were also there are also a lot of

33:34

sexual tensions because, uh,

33:36

the be unfortunate

33:39

person who talked about the purification

33:42

right was not the

33:44

only person. Uh, the

33:46

only child sexually evolved

33:49

allegedly with the mother. Uh.

33:51

And Anderson himself apparently

33:54

was also known to sleep with

33:56

some of the other adopted children. Some

33:58

of the other adopted him iological children

34:01

were also involved sexually

34:03

with one another. Yeah,

34:06

I mean there's some weird stuff

34:08

going on there. Again, like

34:11

Ben said, all allegedly same

34:13

with the poisoning. But one one story

34:15

that did come out of that poisoning, just before you jump back

34:17

into too far the other stuff is that

34:20

you know, the target, at least according

34:22

to the story, was always Anderson

34:25

to get rid of this father figure, but

34:28

a ton of people in the family, multiple

34:30

people in the family ended up getting poisoned.

34:33

Um on In all of these are in several

34:35

of these various attempts where they're poisoning

34:38

food, right, That's that's how it was done.

34:40

Uh, something that was can be consumed, and

34:42

then there's a ton of other people in the house,

34:45

and somebody else ends up

34:48

having a little bit of that poison and getting

34:50

very sick, but not dying. So,

34:53

as you said earlier, Matt, it

34:55

is completely plausible, if

34:57

tragic, for a robbery of

34:59

this time to occur and for a

35:01

homicide to result.

35:04

However, this story

35:07

makes national news because

35:09

it is incredibly unusual for

35:13

federal congress person's

35:15

spouse to be murdered in

35:17

cold blood. Again, consider the

35:20

fact that this is this is essentially

35:22

the murder of a celebrity. You

35:24

know, the odds are that the

35:27

robber, well, the odds are pretty good

35:29

that the robber, whomever

35:33

they may be, Uh,

35:35

if they got a good look at this person, they would

35:37

have known who they were robbing. And

35:39

even if this person was unaware

35:42

of who they were robbing, the method in

35:45

which Anderson was killed is

35:48

um is unlikely in that scenario.

35:50

So just think about all

35:52

these things as we continue down the path here.

35:54

Yeah, I mean when he was quote unquote

35:57

robbed uh and murdered on June

35:59

six, the story became a massive

36:02

sensation. The murder of a federal

36:04

congress person's partner was a huge

36:07

deal. Uh. The news and social

36:09

media UM absolutely ran

36:11

with it. UM and Florida least

36:13

in an interview at during the funeral,

36:16

Um wept openly and begged

36:19

for for justice to be done for

36:21

her slain husband. Brazilian

36:23

media was absolutely on

36:25

fire with increasingly sensationalist

36:28

claims. UM. There was all

36:31

kinds of salacious little details

36:33

coming out of the woodwork, things

36:35

like allegations of swingers clubs.

36:37

Uh. We were kind of front and center.

36:40

UM. For a time, the story kind

36:42

of became less of a big deal. It sort of

36:44

fizzled until that is, UH

36:47

this year when police

36:50

finally got a break in the case.

36:52

UM, they accessed the phone records

36:55

of Anderson's immediate family and

36:58

found out some pretty shocking things. Yeah.

37:00

And part of the reason this investigation

37:03

continued is because

37:05

this person was a celebrity, because they

37:07

were also in a relationship

37:10

with a prominent political figure

37:12

and a prominent religious figure. You

37:15

know. The hard truth of the matter is that a

37:17

person standing in society

37:19

has a tremendous influence

37:22

on how deeply crimes

37:24

against them are investigated. That holds

37:27

true for almost every part of the world.

37:30

And he was shot thirty

37:33

times in

37:35

the groined legs. Are at

37:37

all of those things up. That's why

37:39

the case kept going. And

37:42

this is an important,

37:44

if grizzly note, because imagine

37:47

if you were robbing someone and you

37:49

threaten them with a gun, uh, and you

37:52

you discharge your firearm. Uh

37:55

you would

37:57

you stay this was from a shotgun, by the way, would

38:00

you stay long enough

38:03

to discharge that firearm

38:05

that many times? Or would you

38:07

high tail it so that you were not apprehended?

38:11

They're obvious questions simply in the method of

38:13

the murder here. And as you said,

38:15

well, this investigation eventually shakes

38:17

something loose. Law

38:20

enforcement accesses the phones

38:23

of Anderson's immediate family,

38:25

and then one dark revelation

38:28

after another falls like dominoes.

38:31

All of those a kids that we mentioned

38:34

earlier were in on a conspiracy

38:36

to murder Anderson, at least that's what

38:38

the police believe they are accused

38:40

of doing. That. They all

38:44

were on board with this. Apparently again

38:46

they're the upper echelon of the family and

38:50

the people who pulled the trigger multiple

38:53

times. We're not just random robbers.

38:56

First, one of the adopted children

38:59

named Flavio or Flavio

39:02

is apprehended for this.

39:04

And he said, you know,

39:06

he is the one suspected of actually

39:09

shooting Anderson. And he

39:11

turned and said that his adoptive

39:13

brother, Lucas is the one who purchased

39:16

the firearm. So this shows us two

39:18

things. This shows us, first off,

39:21

multiple actors in the homicide,

39:23

and secondly, it shows coordinated

39:26

planning. We're

39:28

we've had enough time now to think

39:30

about this murder that we realize it's

39:33

smarter to put some distance between

39:35

the person who purchases a gun and

39:37

the person who discharges it, because

39:39

in that gap, in that chain

39:41

of custody, there there's the perfect opportunity

39:44

to say, well, my gun was stolen exactly.

39:47

And then again, you go back to those

39:49

phones and keep

39:53

in mind, you know, even

39:55

if you're not thinking about it, if you use

39:58

a cellular device, any

40:00

kind of smart device whatsoever, to

40:03

do anything to communicate with people,

40:05

no matter how normal, how

40:08

benign, or how salacious

40:10

that communication is. It

40:13

doesn't matter if like what you do to

40:15

that phone, that information is there and authorities

40:17

can access it if you ever get apprehended

40:19

for any reason or another, or if they just decide

40:22

they want to look in your phone for one reason

40:24

or another. UM, when some

40:26

moons phone one of the children UM

40:29

was looked at. It showed very

40:32

explicit searches for poison.

40:35

Like we were mentioned at the top um

40:38

it it was poison

40:40

specifically, Uh

40:42

that you know what

40:44

what do we say? It was been um

40:47

sinide like something

40:50

about how how much sinide

40:52

kills somebody? Or I forget exactly what it was.

40:54

I was looking at the Brazilian whether

40:56

it's legal to buy it and

40:59

and and this was explained

41:02

by by Simone as an attempt

41:04

to help figure out what it's sickened neighbor's

41:07

pet a dog. So this

41:11

again, this is a

41:13

attempt at an alibi. I

41:16

don't want to be glib here, but

41:21

first, don't kill people.

41:23

Don't plan a crime. Uh

41:25

if you do, if you do want

41:28

to uh research

41:30

something for any reason that

41:33

you do not want people to know about

41:35

later, then pie's

41:38

sake, puts put some time into you

41:40

know, browsing a library or something.

41:43

Because this this kind of stuff is a vailance.

41:45

They took the phone, and like you said, Matt, it was very

41:47

easy to follow the bread crumbs

41:49

here. In defense, if you commit

41:52

a crime. Use your phone, use

41:56

like make sure you log into Google. Google.

41:59

Yeah, yeah, please please

42:01

do that. This

42:03

is this goes back to our

42:05

earlier conversation, which is a true story

42:08

about our our very

42:10

strange search histories

42:13

on our work computers and probably on our

42:15

phones as well. I don't know about you, guys. I'm always

42:17

reading something about this kind of stuff. Uh.

42:20

The way I was

42:22

thinking about this, we took a little break off air and

42:25

I took a sip to look at my search history, and

42:28

yeah, there's troubling things like Brazilian

42:30

religious cult, and then there's other stuff

42:33

like role of kiss law

42:35

Aga in the Ottoman Empire. It's

42:38

the Unich in charge of the Harems, and

42:41

so, you know, throw some obscure history

42:43

in there so they'll think, look, may

42:46

not be perfect, but they're just a podcaster,

42:49

right, Yeah, just type I'm just

42:51

a podcaster in their search history like

42:54

every two days. But

42:57

you're you're right, they did find this stuff. Uh.

43:00

That explanation, as you can imagine,

43:02

did not completely satisfy

43:05

law enforcement all at

43:07

all. Up to this point. Eleven

43:10

people are gonna end up being

43:12

arrested in relation to this homicide,

43:15

and there is a cinematic movie

43:19

moment. Here, Uh, these

43:21

suspects, because they have not been convicted, these

43:23

suspects are rounded up in something called

43:26

Operation Luke twelve.

43:28

And and matt Uh,

43:30

you know for years I have deferred to

43:33

your biblical knowledge. So

43:36

what what's going on here? Why would they

43:38

why would they call it that? I love the high

43:40

drama of the name, But

43:43

I'm wondering, is it apropos?

43:45

Relying on me for biblical information

43:48

is your first mistake? M But

43:50

but I'll roll with it here. I

43:53

spent some time in some churches. Um,

43:55

it's it's a reference to Luke twelve,

43:58

which is in the New Testament as a chapter or

44:00

of Luke. And in this

44:02

moment, Yeah, Like in a

44:04

lot of the New Testament books, Jesus

44:07

directly addresses his

44:10

followers right his his

44:12

disciples, whether it's you

44:14

know, the twelve major ones or just other

44:16

people who are into what he's saying. In

44:18

this case, he's talking to his disciples, and

44:20

he says this, there

44:23

is nothing concealed that will not

44:25

be disclosed or hidden that will

44:27

not be made known. What you have said

44:29

in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and

44:31

what you have whispered in the ear in the

44:33

inner rooms will be proclaimed

44:36

from the roofs um.

44:40

I gotta say, great job law enforcement

44:42

to find a Bible verse that that

44:45

connects to this case and really

44:49

tells the story of what was happening here. There's

44:52

something there's there's one note about that I'd

44:54

like to make, uh. Knowing

44:56

the powerful role

44:59

of religion in

45:01

this case, I'm wondering

45:03

if someone on the law enforcement

45:06

side was, up

45:08

until the point of this murder themselves,

45:10

you know, a follower or

45:13

just fans, right, or just appreciative

45:16

of what they're doing right. And I can imagine

45:18

there were probably numerous people in law

45:21

enforcement that felt that way about about that family,

45:24

especially after that movie. I think that changed

45:26

the hearts and minds of a lot of people, right.

45:29

And so the scandals continue

45:31

to unfold. Two other children

45:34

in the family are arrested on unrelated

45:36

charges of domestic

45:39

abuse and drug trafficking. So

45:41

things are getting increasingly

45:44

disturbing and ugly here.

45:47

So what about the person that Noel mentioned earlier?

45:49

What about Florida Lish herself weeping

45:53

holding an interview at a funeral

45:55

for her deceased spouse, begging

45:58

for justice to be And where does

46:00

she square into this.

46:03

Well, police believe

46:05

that, you know, as we said earlier, police believe

46:08

that she was the force behind

46:11

the murder, that she was the brain

46:14

behind the trigger, right, and

46:18

she, there's another twist, was

46:21

not arrested. This is fascinating

46:24

another part of what we talked about on the topics

46:26

of the show, UH, possibly what leads

46:28

to the Brazilian political

46:30

system being so corrupt. In Brazil,

46:33

a congress person can only be

46:35

preventatively arrested to

46:38

avoid the destruction of evidence, for example,

46:40

um, if caught in the act. So

46:44

there they have this thing they're called parliamentary

46:47

immunity, which Florida Lease

46:49

holds. UM And

46:51

I was reading some some articles about this and about

46:54

the Brazilian political system, and you know,

46:56

there's a sense that this

46:59

loophole has the potential

47:01

to attract people that intend

47:04

to do crime to

47:06

these political posts because

47:09

it's literally like immunity from

47:11

from any prosecution. UH.

47:13

Detectives have pushed for her congressional

47:15

status to be revoked, but thus

47:17

far, no go on that.

47:20

Yeah. I remember, we're still pretty early in the stages

47:22

here, so we'll see how everything shakes out.

47:24

But we do have to go back now and slightly

47:26

alter our our advice we were giving everyone

47:28

about if you want to commit a crime, we're

47:30

just gonna say, go ahead and just get

47:32

elected. If you really want to commit some crime

47:35

and go Yeah, what's

47:38

that old saying? Uh? What is it? If you

47:40

want to go to prison

47:43

for robbery, rob a bank, if

47:46

you want to get rich for robbery, start

47:48

a bank, I

47:51

can't. I'm paraphrasing there, I'm styling

47:53

on it a little. But we've been pretty

47:55

careful to note that these are suspects.

47:58

Again, no one's been convicted. We are

48:00

very careful to note that there are allegations,

48:03

even when their eyewitness accounts, there

48:05

are still allegations until proven

48:07

in a court of law. But there

48:10

are some people who don't

48:12

share that same kind of careful caveating

48:15

and that hesitancy. Those

48:17

people are literally all of the detectives

48:20

involved in the case. Like they said,

48:23

you know, she can't be arrested

48:25

parliamentary immunity. They've pushed for

48:27

her congressional status to be stripped,

48:29

to be revoked, and

48:32

the investigators have publicly

48:34

stated multiple times

48:37

that they have zero doubt

48:41

that Flordelis was the ringleader

48:44

of this conspiracy. In fact, Homicide

48:46

chief and Tonio Ricardo Lima Nunez

48:49

noted that all in all, about

48:51

twenty percent of the family

48:54

seems to be involved in this

48:56

homicide. So this is certainly

48:59

something we're gonna have to continue to look

49:01

at. Hopefully, you know, justice

49:04

whatever whatever

49:06

that means in this case, will prevail in

49:08

some way or another. But again, we're

49:10

not gonna know for a while. Um,

49:14

so we're gonna keep looking at it. We asked that you

49:16

keep looking at it too, just you know, if

49:18

you find something interesting, let us

49:20

know. If you hear anything, let us know. If

49:22

you're in Brazil especially

49:25

and uh you speak Portuguese

49:27

and you're able to read some of the initial

49:29

reporting coming out with some of the first

49:33

the primary documentation that's coming out,

49:35

that would be huge for us because we're having

49:37

to rely a lot on translation

49:40

and reporting from Western sources.

49:42

I would just put that out there. Uh.

49:45

But the biggest question we have for for everyone

49:47

listening is what what do you think about all

49:49

of this, uh, everything that was

49:51

going on with his family, with the way money

49:54

was made by them, by this incredible story

49:57

that Florida Leash had. Let us know, you

49:59

think about the fact that there is certainly

50:01

more than that initial movie

50:03

about Florida Leash that will be coming out. This

50:06

is gonna make for maybe a whole

50:08

series on Netflix or something. Absolutely

50:11

please let us know. You can do so

50:14

in the usual ways on social media or we

50:16

are Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show

50:18

on Instagram, Twitter, UM,

50:20

and Facebook. You can also join our Facebook

50:22

group where we tend to have pretty regular

50:24

conversations about new episodes the drop and

50:27

this one I think is gonna be a particularly

50:29

interesting conversation because it is

50:31

such an ongoing story. So look

50:33

to Here's where it gets Crazy

50:35

on Facebook for posts and updates

50:38

around the story and uh, you know, joining

50:40

the conversation. UM. If you don't want to do

50:42

any of that, you can also give

50:44

us a call at one three st

50:47

d w y t K, or you can leave

50:49

us a voicemail and maybe be featured on one of our listener

50:51

mail episode. Just be sure and let us know if you're

50:53

okay with that. Hey, and remember,

50:56

maybe you're watching this on YouTube. Maybe you're not, But

50:59

if you want to watch us do this whole

51:02

thing, which you know is fun for us,

51:04

hopefully it's fun for you too. You can find us

51:06

at YouTube dot com. Slash conspiracy

51:09

stuff. Will be posting as many videos

51:11

as we can. They'll mostly be shorter

51:14

clips from these podcasts, but you'll

51:16

get little moments here and there from a lot of the

51:18

episodes. We think you're gonna like it. Uh,

51:20

let us know what you think they're The comments

51:23

section is open again and we

51:25

will be in it, especially Ben. He assures us

51:27

that Ben will be in that comment section looking

51:30

for everybody. So no trolls. You

51:33

control. If you want to say that

51:36

it's gonna happen, there's nothing we can do about it. Oh,

51:39

you're right, you're right, but don't invite it. Come

51:41

on, man, that's right, My goodness.

51:44

Uh. If you don't want to do any of that stuff, UM,

51:47

then you can just us reach out to us the

51:49

old fashioned way by setting a good old email.

51:51

We are conspiracy at iHeart radio

51:54

dot com. Yeah.

52:13

Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

52:15

of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

52:17

from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

52:20

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

52:22

favorite shows.