0:00

From UFOs to psychic powers

0:02

and government conspiracies. History

0:04

is riddled with unexplained events. You

0:07

can turn back now or learn

0:09

the stuff they don't want you to know. A

0:12

production of I Heart Gradios How

0:14

Stuff Works. Hello,

0:24

welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name

0:27

they call me Ben. We are joined as always

0:29

with our super producer Paul Mission controlled

0:31

dec and most importantly, you are

0:34

you. You are here and that makes

0:36

this stuff they don't want

0:38

you to know. From the offset,

0:40

it is important for us to collectively

0:42

establish that this episode is

0:45

not an advertisement for the

0:47

Irishman. The newest Scorsese

0:49

film that just dropped on Netflix,

0:52

Uh, to no small amount of

0:54

acclaim and a little bit of

0:57

controversy. Al Pacino

0:59

plays one of the I

1:01

don't know, maybe secondary is a

1:04

good word, a secondary character

1:06

in the film Uh. He plays a character

1:09

named Jimmy Hoffa, which is based

1:11

on the real life Jimmy Hoffa.

1:13

Now, Nol, you and I had talked about

1:15

this film a little bit off air when we

1:18

saw it, and and Paul you watched

1:20

it, so you brought it up to us without

1:23

spoiling the film for anyone. It's based

1:25

on a book, right, by this guy named

1:27

Charles Brant. It's called I

1:29

Heard You Paint Houses. I Heard You Paint

1:31

Houses, which is a fantastic title.

1:34

This book purports to be nonfiction,

1:37

includes interviews and alleged confessions

1:39

made to the author, Charles Brandt, by

1:42

a former mafia hitman named

1:45

Frank she Wrin like Edge

1:47

she Wren Uh and yes

1:50

and this uh. This film

1:53

inspired our own super producer,

1:55

Paul deck And to say, Hey, guys, have

1:57

we ever delved into the story of jim

2:00

Me Halfa? And I don't know. I

2:02

I assumed that we had. We

2:04

had. Not that changes

2:07

today. So here are

2:09

the facts. Yeah, let's talk about Jimmy

2:11

Haffa. Who is this guy? Well, he was born James

2:14

Riddle. You know, he went by Jimmy Halfa.

2:17

And he was born on Valentine's Day, that's

2:19

February fourteenth, nineteen thirteen,

2:22

in a place called Brazil, Indiana.

2:24

I did not know there was a Brazil Indiana. It's

2:27

kind of cool. I've never heard of that place either.

2:29

Um, assuming the the

2:32

climate is a bit different in that Brazil. Um,

2:35

he he was aware of

2:37

let's say, the American labor

2:40

force, the American laborer, the person who

2:42

was using their hands to create

2:44

something, generally for somebody else. His

2:47

father was a coal miner and

2:49

he passed away when Halfa was

2:52

very very young. Jimmy was young, and

2:54

his mom had end up joining the workforce

2:57

to support her family, which which

2:59

was a fairly common occurrence as you know,

3:02

um, the heads of households

3:04

would die off, whether it was through war conflict

3:07

or a workforce accident or something like that.

3:10

Um. He had three siblings

3:12

of four children, including Jimmy,

3:14

and eventually they moved to a place

3:17

called Detroit, Michigan, which

3:19

at the time was a

3:21

hotbed of industry

3:23

and growing. You know, this is uh,

3:26

this is still before the

3:29

enormous boom of the American

3:32

auto industry, but still

3:34

it's very much an industrious place. It's a great place

3:36

to get a job. And we don't

3:38

know how much formal education Jimmy

3:41

Hoffa was able to achieve. Uh,

3:43

you know, you'll hear's. Historians say they don't know

3:46

whether he reached high school, much less

3:48

graduated, but we know that eventually,

3:50

while he was in school, he had to drop out.

3:52

He had to help support his family, so

3:55

he worked on the loading dock for

3:57

a chain of grocery stores there

3:59

in Detroit. Wait, and while working there,

4:01

imagine how young this guy is. While working

4:03

there, he organizes his very first

4:06

labor strike and it all

4:08

hinges on shipments of strawberries.

4:11

Yeah, and he actually was pretty

4:14

demonstrating some pretty serious

4:16

streets smart to this point already because he used

4:18

a recent shipment of strawberries as leverage

4:20

to help get his coworkers better

4:23

deal, better contracts um

4:25

for their labor. They refused to unload

4:28

the strawberries until they had secured

4:31

better, better pay and

4:33

in the thirties, well, I just have to say right there

4:35

with the strawberries, like, that's a smart thing because

4:38

strawberries go bad pretty quickly,

4:41

and if you don't unload the strawberries,

4:43

he's like he was coming up the works for everybody

4:45

basically by doing that. And the

4:48

it's interesting how it's set a timer, like

4:51

very clear timer on when you're

4:53

gonna lose all your money on these strawberries,

4:55

and you're also losing money because that truck

4:57

is now stuck there. It was just really smart. Have

5:00

worked with canps, Honestly,

5:02

it wouldn't because this CANPS, I

5:05

don't know. Yeah, hard to say if that was

5:07

just like a serendipitous thing, or if

5:09

he very much you know, was being calculated

5:11

about that. But it was absolutely a smart

5:13

move and he got what he wanted. Then in the nineteen thirties,

5:16

um Hafa officially joined

5:18

the International Brotherhood of Teamsters,

5:21

which is what he went on to become

5:23

the president of at least the union's

5:26

Detroit chapter. UM.

5:28

So he kind of laid the groundwork for a career

5:31

UH in labor um and and it would

5:33

seem it came. He came by honestly based

5:35

on his you know, trajectory and his upbringing

5:38

at that point. Yeah, and we should also stop

5:40

too for anyone who doesn't know. Doubtless,

5:43

doubtlessly we have several Teamsters

5:45

in the audience today, but a

5:47

lot of people in this country and abroad

5:49

don't really know what a teamster is. The

5:52

teamster, the old word atomo logically

5:54

is like someone who drives a team of horses.

5:58

Right now, ac cordy to their website

6:00

teamster dot org. The Teamsters are

6:02

America's largest, most diverse

6:05

union. UH. They started in nineteen

6:07

o three is the merger of two team

6:10

driver associations t

6:13

E A M. By the way, not teen

6:15

in case, my annunciation is off,

6:18

and today you will you

6:20

may be most familiar with them as

6:22

truck drivers, right, because we've

6:25

replaced to a great degree, we've

6:27

replaced animal labor with

6:30

mechanical labor. So at

6:32

this time he is uh,

6:35

he is. As you said, Noel joined

6:37

up with the Teamsters. He starts

6:39

as the president of the Detroit chapter.

6:42

For many less ambitious people, that

6:44

would be the version of making it.

6:46

You know what I mean, I'm king of the town. And

6:50

the thing is that halfa is not

6:53

a guy satisfied with being a big fish

6:55

in a small town. Make no mistake, he

6:57

is a shark. He expands

6:59

you in membership. He quickly

7:02

garners a reputation for getting

7:04

better contract agreements by any

7:06

means necessary. Cough cough, corruption,

7:09

cough cough, mafia cough

7:11

cough, uh

7:13

cough. Right, But he

7:16

started out honest, right, That's the very important

7:18

thing. By nineteen fifty two, he's vice

7:20

president of the entire union,

7:23

so not just Detroit, but the entire

7:25

international brotherhood of Teamsters,

7:28

and just five years after that, nineteen

7:30

fifty seven, he is the president of the entire

7:33

organization. It's one of these things where, especially in

7:35

the way he's portrayed in film like, I haven't

7:37

been a long time since I've seen that Jack Nicholson

7:39

uh film that believed any de Vito

7:41

directed, It's called Hafa. But at least

7:44

in The Irishman, you do get

7:46

the sense that he felt

7:48

as though he were still representing

7:51

the common man and doing something positive,

7:53

even though he was clearly um heading

7:56

up what was not a strictly legal

7:59

enterprise. He he seemed like he maybe

8:01

could convinced himself that it was all for the greater

8:03

good. It was all for getting his fellow brothers

8:06

a better deal, like with the strawberries. But

8:08

in order to do that, you know, we're swimming

8:10

with sharks here. We gotta play nice with the

8:12

sharks, a bigger, bigger

8:15

shark exactly, because it's all about us versus

8:17

them mentality, and in this

8:19

case, us did include

8:22

some pretty um nefarious characters.

8:25

Halfa was to be the subject of

8:27

numerous criminal investigations and

8:29

and it was a shadow that kind of relentlessly

8:31

followed him throughout his career, and this is

8:33

portrayed really really well in the in the s

8:35

Carsese film. Um wasn't entirely

8:37

surprising his direct predecessor,

8:40

Dave Beck, had also been

8:42

investigated and he was ultimately tried

8:45

and convicted of corrupt practices

8:47

within the union. Dave Beck, which

8:50

was convicted, which gave half of the opportunity

8:53

to ascend to this position, yet

8:55

half a persevered Nineteen

8:58

sixty four was a big year

9:00

for him in a number of ways,

9:02

not all of them fantastic. His

9:05

big win was that he got nearly

9:07

all of the truck drivers in the entire

9:10

continent of North America under a single

9:13

contract. Uncle

9:15

Sam have been keeping

9:17

an eye on Jimmy, and they

9:19

thought there was something rotten

9:21

in the teamster's something fishy about

9:24

his rise to fame and his success.

9:26

Now at this point, he is very,

9:29

very similar to a

9:31

well known politician, or maybe even

9:33

to some degree of celebrity. Right, the

9:36

FBI and then U S.

9:38

Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy

9:40

are watching Haffa very

9:42

closely. They are convinced

9:44

that a lot of his union success is

9:48

less a result of being a shrewd negotiator

9:51

and more a result of a close collaboration

9:54

with organized crime also known

9:56

as the mob or the mafia.

9:59

Right, so what

10:01

else happened in nineteen sixty Well,

10:03

halfa himself was found guilty

10:05

of a couple of things, bribery

10:07

for one, also jury tampering.

10:10

Jury tampering the good old j

10:13

T when when something goes wrong

10:15

and somebody knows it, you gotta

10:17

tamper a little bit. Yeah,

10:20

right, like and and that can be really

10:23

that could be really terrible or just going like here's

10:25

a hundred dollars, don't don't talk about me,

10:27

or it could yeah, or it could be something to the level

10:30

of you know, memories

10:32

a funny thing, Mr Smith, you

10:35

know what I mean. Like sometimes you think

10:37

you remember, so you look back and you realize

10:39

you don't remember it too good. After all,

10:41

you know, it could have been anybody there. But you know

10:43

one thing, one thing you never forget

10:46

is your children smile. And it's wonderful

10:48

will be able to see that every day instead

10:50

of just looking back and and remembering

10:53

it and wishing you could say hello to him.

10:55

Oh boy, oh boy,

10:57

that was really

10:59

good. That's just the science of memory.

11:02

I was gonna say, just like casually mentioning

11:05

his or her daughter's birthday, but like that's

11:07

like that was on that was on the was on

11:09

the money. Well, that's cinematic I'm sure it was

11:11

much more subtle, yes,

11:14

but but that stuff that that's when he

11:16

he was found guilty of both of those things in connection

11:18

with a previous trial that he had that

11:21

he had gone through in nineteen two years

11:23

prior. Yeah, he was on trial for conspiracy,

11:25

which I love you that people could be convicted

11:27

of conspiracy. And then he

11:30

was found guilty in sixty

11:32

four for charges related

11:34

to, as you said, Matt conspiracy. So

11:36

that was one bad thing that happened to him that

11:38

year. Yeah,

11:41

he's also convicted of misusing funds

11:43

from the union's pension plan. And

11:45

that's a big note in the in

11:48

the film that Scorsese did,

11:50

and also a note I believe

11:52

in the book I Heard You Paint Houses, because

11:55

the union's pension fund was

11:57

an enormous amount of money and

12:00

he pretty much had direct

12:02

control over it, so he could make the money dance

12:05

to the tunes he chose, and a lot of those

12:07

tunes were mafia

12:09

backed projects, like in Las Vegas,

12:11

for example, um paying for wings

12:14

to be constructed on you know, casinos,

12:16

and as we know, a lot of that money came directly

12:19

from the mob to start you know, Las Vegas. In

12:21

the first place. So there were those

12:23

relationships, uh that were

12:25

ongoing and directly tied to dipping

12:28

into that money, which would then be invested

12:30

and get a return. It's not like he was stealing

12:32

money from the pensioners people

12:35

who would do that money. But it was still playing

12:38

fast and loose with the rules. You know,

12:40

you're telling me that organized crime

12:43

organizations launder

12:46

money through things like labor unions.

12:49

It's true, map money laundry, but

12:51

it's got a great return. I'm just gonna say,

12:53

if everything goes well, there's a great return

12:55

for that stuff. Uh. Yeah, money laundering

12:58

was it was a big part of it. Also,

13:01

at what point do this Maybe a

13:03

story for a different day, but at what point do campaign

13:06

donations become um

13:10

illegal? Right? At what point would be interfering

13:12

with the democratic process? Well, I mean, all you gotta

13:14

do is make him unlimited and then you're

13:16

good to go that I should fix all those problems.

13:18

Right, Well, I think it's safe

13:21

for for the five

13:23

of us. Uh, Paul Noel met

13:25

myself and you listening to agree

13:27

that Jimmy Hoffa probably did not deal

13:30

with these philosophical quandaries in the

13:32

same way. It's

13:34

just cost of doing business. So

13:36

after three years fighting these

13:39

charges that his lawyer

13:41

and and you know again as depicted in the in ther

13:44

Citi film, it was a union lawyer, UM

13:46

who was also very aware of what was

13:48

going on, made the argument that

13:50

this was all trumped up. Um. He had

13:52

exhausted his appeals finally and he got thirteen years

13:55

in prison in the nineteen sixty seven he

13:57

was incarcerated in the Louisbourg Federal Prison

14:00

in Pennsylvania. UH. And

14:02

then came along UH

14:05

a like minded individual who has sent it to the

14:07

presidency, a little guy by the name of Richard Nixon

14:09

who commuted half a sentence in seventy

14:12

one, essentially giving him

14:14

a part in a presidential pardon with a

14:16

year and a half of probation. However,

14:19

this came with a string

14:21

attached. Nixon band half

14:23

of from holding any union leadership position

14:25

at least until nineteen

14:28

So bit of a slap on the wrists. It's

14:30

a weird one too, because it's a string with a

14:32

time limit. He's not saying stay

14:35

out of the game, your dirty rat. He's

14:37

saying, just sit on the bench until

14:40

the eighties. Let's let the heat die

14:42

down a little bit. Well, and it's so it's

14:45

so odd to me that Nixon the president,

14:47

came through and said, you know

14:49

what, it's okay, is it odd? You're good?

14:52

You're good man, You're gonna be okay. It's only been a couple

14:54

of years. You got thirteen, You'll be all

14:56

right. Well half a donated heavily.

14:58

Oh, I know it's campaigned,

15:01

but just too to be able

15:04

to get a president to do that, no

15:06

matter how much money you're donating to them, because

15:09

in the end, it's you know, the public

15:11

appearance of something like that. But here's

15:13

the deal. Jimmy Hoffa and

15:15

a lot of labor union leaders

15:19

out there are like

15:21

hugely beloved no matter what they're

15:23

doing, no matter what they've been convicted of. Will you

15:25

know, over the course of time and history, will

15:28

be beloved because there is this this

15:30

perception, at least from the outside.

15:33

And and you know, like we said, Jimmy Hoffa

15:35

thought that he was doing the right thing, or at least appeared

15:37

to believe he was doing the right least at the beginning.

15:39

The ideology outweighed the ego that exactly

15:42

that ideology

15:43

it ripples out through the public

15:46

of people who are assisted in that way. And this is a one

15:48

to one and some might accuse me of being hyperbolic

15:50

here, but it's almost the way you hear about, uh,

15:53

the way folks in my dan treated

15:56

Pablo Escobar, you know, very

15:58

clearly bad guy, doing at

16:00

things, hurting people, probably

16:02

directly hurting individuals in that community.

16:04

But there's this perception that he's

16:07

the best chance they've got, or he's actually looking

16:09

out for the little people, you know, and he cares

16:12

in some way, and they call him sant Pablo and all that

16:14

stuff, even though completely transparent

16:17

that this guy is is no good. Well, in Haffa,

16:19

wasn't some mob boss, no exactly,

16:21

but I don't want to draw one similar

16:24

exactly, but there's intentions

16:27

to look out for the

16:29

the labor class, of the working class. We

16:33

can imagine, you know, I think that

16:35

is a good comparison. We

16:37

can imagine supporters of Escobar

16:39

and supporters of Haffa, not

16:42

that they're the same in the same line of

16:44

business, but we can imagine the supporters saying, hey,

16:46

this guy is the reason that we have

16:48

a paycheck. This is the reason that my family

16:50

can live comfortably or better than

16:53

they would have otherwise. So

16:55

we have to remember also that with his enormous power,

16:57

Jimmy Hoffa could move the vote.

17:00

He could sway hundreds

17:02

of thousands of people to vote

17:04

for or against a given candidate.

17:07

And for the next few

17:09

years, half A wages something

17:12

very like a war. He's fighting

17:14

that ban on leadership in court. He doesn't

17:16

want to wait till and he's also

17:18

working behind the scenes, with mixed

17:21

success, to reconsolidate

17:23

his power base within the

17:26

Union. And then, of course, as

17:28

even a casual student of history

17:30

will recall, things don't

17:33

work out the way half A planned.

17:35

Or did they. We're going to rejoin

17:38

him on July after

17:41

a word from our sponsor, and

17:50

we're back. J Halfa

17:54

is in a state of what the streets

17:56

called deep beef. He has

17:59

numerous enemies, he hasn't

18:01

made a ton of friends, and he's alienated

18:03

many of the friends he had. But

18:05

he wants to make peace, and he realizes he

18:07

might have to eat some crow, he might have to swallow

18:10

his pride, he might have to

18:12

make some inroads with people he swore

18:14

he would never work with again. So

18:16

he leaves his home in Detroit and

18:19

he meets the two Tony's Anthony

18:22

Tony Jack and

18:24

Uh Anthony Tony Prow. Tony

18:28

Jack is a figure in the Detroit crime

18:30

scene. Tony pro is a mob

18:32

affiliated union leader who's

18:35

based in New Jersey. So they're supposed

18:37

to meet at this restaurant in Bloomfield

18:39

Township. Is that the Marcus red

18:41

Fox? I believe so, yeah,

18:44

that they're gonna they're gonna squash

18:46

the beef. They're gonna settle their feud.

18:49

At least that's what Haffa thinks.

18:52

So shows up, what we believe, at

18:54

least, his car shows up, and

18:56

he appears to be the only one there.

18:59

You know, he's there. He's gonna meet two people, but half

19:02

was the only guy there, and he's wondering what's going on.

19:04

Assume we assume, because

19:07

really we have no idea.

19:10

We have no evidence at least that

19:12

is um, that is concrete

19:14

as to what occurred after

19:17

he showed up at that restaurant, or

19:19

at least when his car showed

19:22

up, because his

19:24

car was there. But he was never

19:26

seen again by anyone except

19:29

for the people responsible for what happened

19:31

to him, or himself responsible

19:34

for whatever happened to him. It's

19:36

a mystery. It's one of the most longstanding

19:39

mysteries that has existed in this country,

19:42

and um, yeah, one

19:44

of America's most prominent, divisive,

19:47

important public figures had

19:49

simply Kay's are associated. He

19:51

disappeared and we're almost

19:54

a half a century

19:56

into the post halfa era?

19:58

So what happened to Jimmy

20:01

Hoffa? Here's where it gets

20:03

crazy. The answer really depends on

20:05

who who you ask. There's no shortage

20:08

of theories that have popped up over the

20:10

intervening decades, and the most

20:12

popular suspects being the

20:14

mob of course. But in some

20:16

cases this surprised me. US

20:19

federal agencies. Interesting,

20:21

right, did you guys hear about that one? That's a weird

20:23

one for sure. I mean it makes sense considering

20:26

that he was such a persona

20:28

on grata like for you know, Kennedy

20:30

and the U. S. Government. I mean, they were after

20:33

him, and he more or less shook

20:36

the rap and then was able to kind of get back into

20:38

the game. Well we'll get into

20:40

it a little bit further, but there's

20:42

also the idea that a federal

20:45

agency was involved, but not in disappearing

20:47

him by killing him or anything, but by

20:49

putting him into a protection of

20:52

some sort. Right, Yeah, so

20:55

at this point in the

20:58

if we take the high level look at it, at this point

21:00

in the world of conspiracy and speculation,

21:03

the fate of Jimmy Hoffa's kind

21:06

of entered urban legend status,

21:08

which means that the theories start to

21:10

obey some of the troops

21:13

we would associate with folk tales

21:15

or oral tradition. The general

21:17

consensus now is that the mob

21:20

conspired to kill Haffa

21:22

because they wanted to stop him

21:24

from becoming the King of the Teamsters

21:27

again. And that's because while he was

21:29

locked up, even though he wasn't locked up for the full

21:31

thirteen year sentence, while he was locked up, his

21:33

former vice president got pretty

21:35

cozy with the mob, even more

21:37

so than Haffa was, and he was much

21:39

more willing to play some games. When

21:42

Jimmy Hoffa got out, uh

21:44

the wise guys, the mafios

21:47

knew that he

21:49

would try to rain them in a little bit

21:52

and they wouldn't be able to play all

21:54

the reindeer games that they had become so

21:57

accustomed to. Make no mistake, they were probably

21:59

make ging more money under that vice

22:02

president. What was his name meant that was

22:04

Frank fitz Simmons, Frank Edward I. Believe

22:06

Frankie Fitz. Yeah, so

22:08

they were making they're probably making

22:10

more money under Frankie Fitz. Who

22:13

on earth would say no to UH

22:16

to continuing to enhance their profits.

22:18

They weren't keen to mess with that relationship.

22:22

So the idea then is that

22:24

the mob killed him or

22:26

disappeared him, and we see

22:28

a lot of common troops. Just like in other

22:31

forms of folklore, there are tons

22:33

of variations on this theory.

22:35

It's kind of like a kind

22:37

of like a bar joke or something, you know, where it's

22:39

like X walks into a bar. They

22:41

followed the same, just a mob hit and

22:44

then some sort of industrial

22:46

process to destroy or hide

22:48

Haffa's body. There are a ton of examples,

22:51

Yes, there are, indeed. Um One

22:53

of them is that Haffa was killed, placed

22:55

in the trunk of a car, then the car was crushed

22:58

in a mob affiliated scrapyard. Um.

23:00

That would be a pretty clever way to go about it, wouldn't

23:03

that leave a lot of physical evidence? Though, Like I

23:05

don't know, you gotta will get a wonder with it, like seep

23:07

out the cubed car, like

23:10

the remains or anything like that.

23:12

I wonder what that would look like, Yeah, I imagine,

23:14

so it would have to definitely be a

23:16

tightly controlled scrap yards. Scrap yards

23:19

can be really big. But this

23:21

was also in the days before DNA testings.

23:24

True, it wouldn't fly today. No, certainly

23:26

not as much, specially if it was a known kind

23:29

of mob tied facility or whatever.

23:31

Another one is that he was hit in the head with a shovel

23:34

and buried alive. Where are these coming from? Cheeze

23:36

dramatic? I like it, but that

23:39

one doesn't make the most sense. Do

23:41

you have any providence for the for the

23:43

for the origin of a one. Yeah, that one

23:45

comes to us from the

23:48

great rumor mill. That

23:50

doesn't That one doesn't have a

23:52

lot of sand to it. A lot of

23:55

a lot of these examples that we find

23:57

came out later after

24:00

because of course this happened before DNA. It also

24:02

happened before internet, right, So

24:04

a lot of these come about

24:07

from statements by former

24:10

mafia associated individuals,

24:13

usually when they are attempting to

24:15

seem as though they have leverage so

24:18

that they can get some juice with the FEDS, maybe

24:20

get a better deal up to an including

24:22

relocation and immunity makes

24:24

sense, and that also makes sense for some of the ones

24:26

to follow, uh, which seemed to be

24:29

kind of variations on a theme. Right. Halfa

24:31

was murdered and his remains replaced in an oil

24:33

drum um Halfa and one container

24:35

or another was thrown into

24:38

the Great Lakes, or was abducted by the

24:40

FEDS and thrown from an

24:42

airplane. It's a waterproof

24:44

planned full proof. That's

24:46

uh. I just think about that.

24:50

When has when has anybody said, you

24:52

know, the best way to get rid of this prominent

24:55

figure is to take them on an airplane

24:57

and then, in full view of anyone who happens

25:00

to be, you know, looking up, let's

25:02

throw them from the plane. It doesn't

25:06

that one, okay, So that one comes from the

25:08

FED. One specifically comes from a

25:10

guy named Joseph Franco. I have no idea

25:12

whether he's related to the actor. He

25:14

was an old one time associate of Haffa's,

25:17

and Franco said that he kept the

25:19

story to himself for years because

25:21

he wanted to use the info as leverage

25:23

in negotiating an immunity deal

25:26

if he were caught for other unrelated crimes.

25:28

Spoiler alert, It did not work

25:30

out for Franco. No, it did

25:32

not. There's one that Paul is

25:35

a particular fan of as well, The

25:37

idea that, uh, halfa

25:40

became this sort of grizzly

25:42

hidden landmark for a

25:44

sports team. Oh yeah. The

25:46

idea is that half was dispatched,

25:49

shot baby whatever it was. Then

25:51

he was his limbs were

25:54

taken apart, he was dismembered, then frozen,

25:56

and then get this guess, buried

25:59

inside the cement foundation of

26:01

Giants Stadium. Now,

26:03

this was then located in Rutherford, New

26:06

Jersey and East

26:09

Rutherford, New Jersey. So what's interesting

26:11

about this, just to interject, is that

26:14

there's a nice mythic tie

26:16

in here because in

26:19

some ancient civilizations

26:21

and cultures thought when you were building

26:23

a place of great import, you

26:25

were required to make a blood sacrifice

26:28

of some sort. This and cats

26:30

in there right right now. This doesn't work

26:32

with that kind of left hand path stuff because

26:35

the idea is that he wasn't killed

26:37

on the site. If you really want the magic to

26:40

hit, it's got to happen, you know, live

26:42

and direct on the place where you plan to lay

26:44

the stones. Yeah.

26:47

Yeah, I can't remember the movie

26:49

that I just watched that talked

26:51

all about that, but it had uh

26:54

the actor who

26:56

plays the Queen of Dragons. Uh.

26:58

She was in it and it was like a haunting

27:01

horror movie on Netflix. Anyway,

27:03

I'll check it out. It's out there. They

27:05

they mentioned they mentioned burying

27:08

a cat like oh and alive cat in

27:10

the in the walls jerks.

27:12

Yeah. Gross. Well anyway, in this case,

27:15

it was in Giants stadium. Uh.

27:17

And this is pretty crazy because it originates

27:20

from an interview that a guy named

27:22

Donald Francos gave in ninety

27:24

nine to Playboy magazine, which

27:27

I want to say, at the time was doing great journalism.

27:29

Actually still Playboys

27:34

Soldiers on. I'm not as familiar.

27:36

I'm not as familiar with modern Playboy

27:39

nowadays. I mean, there's the old joke that you just read

27:41

it for the articles, but apparently, like for a while,

27:43

it was absolutely a place where a lot of short

27:46

stories writers broke their work

27:48

and kind of went on to great things. My

27:51

favorite Shell Silver Steam poem was

27:53

published in Playboy, and I

27:55

stole a copy as a kid so I could read the poem.

27:58

Isn't that weird? That is quite It's

28:00

good. It's about the devil. It's a whole thing. The

28:03

one that was kind of filthy,

28:05

Yes, remember

28:07

that one. That's a good one. What's the

28:10

what's the name of that? Oh, gosh, the

28:12

devil and Billy Markham, that's

28:14

the one. Yeah. Um. And in

28:16

that article in Playboy, Um

28:19

he claimed that Haffa was killed by a New York

28:21

Irish mafia boss by the name of Jimmy

28:24

Coonan and buried um

28:26

at the home field of the New York Giants

28:28

in New York Jets football teams,

28:31

so ac Cordy to Franco's after Conan shot halfa

28:33

with a silence twenty two caliber pistol

28:35

in a house in Mount Clemens, Michigan,

28:38

he in New York mafia hitman John Sullivan

28:42

bagged up the body parts and stored them

28:44

in a freezer for months. See

28:46

that's weird because you would think you

28:49

would want to get rid of the body as

28:51

soon as you can, because every time anybody

28:55

else who knows about the freezer, even if they don't

28:57

know there's a body in it, could be uh

28:59

an knew of exposure. But okay,

29:01

so they've gotten in this freezer

29:03

for months. Apparently nobody opens

29:06

the freezer in this part of town. What do they do

29:08

after those months have passed? Well,

29:11

you find a stadium that is

29:13

under construction, a giant concrete

29:15

monstrosity, and you find

29:17

a place where concrete is being poured

29:20

and you place it surreptitiously

29:23

underneath there. Right, that's the whole

29:25

idea. So so for

29:27

real, though, Giant Stadium was under

29:29

construction and it was going to open up the next

29:31

year, or it was planned to at least, the bags

29:33

were then mixed into the concrete foundation

29:36

in what became a certain section. So if

29:38

you go, if you went to Giant Stadium and you looked

29:40

at section one oh seven down

29:43

there deep, that's where Jimmy Hoffa late at

29:45

least according to this theory. And this

29:48

section was located near the end zone of

29:50

the stadium's football field. There's one

29:52

one of the end zones. Yeah, there's one problem

29:54

with this, which is that there is no

29:57

evidence other than these claims

29:59

by people speaking years after the fact.

30:02

In fact, the FBI,

30:04

while they had initially entertained most descriptions

30:08

or allegations of the fate of Jimmy Hoffa,

30:10

and they you know, days and months

30:12

following his disappearance, Uh, they really

30:14

cooled on this theory. And when the stadium

30:17

was demolished in the

30:19

FBI did not even bother

30:21

to show up and search the site because they

30:23

put him there. I'm just kidding, that's

30:25

that's not true. I'm joking, you

30:27

know. I just I don't

30:30

think people really get thrown from planes

30:32

as often as fiction would have us believe.

30:34

Well, that's the that's the other part of the stories. He was

30:36

thrown from a plane and he went right through,

30:39

straight through that concrete and just like embedded

30:41

inside there. And then oh and the FBI went

30:44

good enough, he was wet, the concrete

30:46

was still wet, and he just went, uh,

30:48

so let's get back to she

30:50

writ she Wren is the source

30:52

of the claims that are made in the

30:55

book I Heard You Paint Houses? Uh

30:57

and the Irishman. The film

30:59

is based in the book I Heard You Paint Houses, she

31:02

Wren says that he had betrayed

31:04

Jimmy Hoffa, and he says multiple

31:07

times that Jimmy Hoffa was a friend of his right

31:09

and he said he pulled the trigger

31:12

because it

31:15

was inevitable that someone

31:17

was gonna kill halfa and so he

31:19

thought he felt honor bound that it should

31:21

be him, and he thought, also, you know, at least

31:23

I'll make it quick he'll die instantly. So

31:26

here's what he said happened. He said that he

31:29

brought halfa to a house in northwestern

31:31

Detroit, and he stood behind Jimmy

31:33

Hoffa, and while Jimmy hoff was distracted,

31:36

she Wren shot him twice in the back of

31:38

the head the double tap, and then

31:40

he said they cremated Haffa's

31:42

remains and a traction senerator in the suburbs

31:44

of Detroit. She Wren

31:47

actually gave the address of

31:50

the house, and we'll get to this.

31:52

Uh, we gave the address of the house

31:54

where the murders supposedly took place.

31:57

Investigators treated seriously. They

31:59

searched this for evidence of the killing,

32:01

and they found traces of blood

32:04

in the house, but later

32:06

testing revealed that this blood did

32:08

not belong to Haffa, so someone probably

32:10

died. Maybe she Wrin was just misbearemembering

32:14

this, however, was just one

32:16

of several searches conducted.

32:19

Will get to a few of those after a

32:21

word from our sponsor, and

32:29

we're back. Now let's get into some of the official

32:31

attempts to find Jimmy,

32:33

offer to recover his body, or even

32:35

to locate him if he was still alive. Um

32:37

so let's get let's jump to nineteen nine

32:41

to the FBI and Kenneth Walton,

32:43

he's the agent in charge of the FBI's

32:46

Detroit office, and he

32:49

was speaking with the Detroit News UH

32:51

in nine and he was talking

32:53

about how he knew what had

32:55

happened to Halfa, And we have a quote from him

32:57

here, I'm comfortable, I know who did it, but it's never

33:00

going to be prosecuted because

33:03

we would have to divulge informants

33:05

confidential sources. Informants

33:08

confidential sources.

33:10

Yeah. Well, now let's just say

33:14

I can imagine in a case

33:16

like this, with somebody like Jimmy Hoffa

33:19

that has so many connections to probably

33:21

multiple organized criminal organizations.

33:25

Um that if you did, let's

33:27

say, charge somebody

33:29

that you knew or you were aware of who

33:32

did it. But if by doing that, it's

33:34

going to compromise like two or three major

33:37

let's say vice investigations

33:39

or you know, uh, investigations

33:41

of conspiracy, like that

33:44

would be a hard that would be a difficult choice

33:46

to make, at least just to find

33:49

the killer or to apprehend the killer

33:51

of another known criminal

33:54

or associated criminal. So

33:56

like, why would why would you give up

33:58

on this other thing that is

34:00

viable right now, just to just

34:03

to close that case. I don't know, yeah,

34:05

because if and I

34:07

don't want to put words into the mouths of

34:09

the law enforcement here, but I think it's a fantastic

34:12

point, because if you think that someone

34:14

is already inherently corrupting kind of a

34:16

dirt bag for one reason or another, then

34:20

do you feel the same moral

34:22

obligation to pursue

34:25

a case, especially if it means pursuing

34:28

that case may uh preclude

34:31

your ability to lock up other living

34:33

criminals who are out there still doing

34:35

things that you find morally or

34:37

you know, legally, um

34:40

terrible. That's a really good point, man, I

34:43

don't I mean it would it would make

34:45

sense that that Walton at least believe, like

34:47

truly believed he knew. Yeah, And

34:49

I would say also, I

34:51

would say also to as

34:53

as anyone in the enforcement

34:55

community listening to the show today,

34:58

including our n s A interns, even knows

35:01

full well, uh,

35:04

I imagine that the vast majority of

35:06

professionals working in those fields would

35:09

say, well, it doesn't matter

35:11

whether I like someone

35:13

who is a victim of a crime. It's my job,

35:16

it's my career. Correct. But it

35:18

is a cold hard fact that somebody

35:20

somewhere would have to make the decision to,

35:23

you know, if if there was and this is the

35:25

big if here, if there was a

35:29

conflict in that way that we're speaking

35:31

of here, somebody would have to make the decision

35:33

to either continue uh

35:36

searching for Hafa and going down those leads,

35:38

or saying, okay, we gotta leave this alone. Yeah,

35:41

yeah, I mean it's true, it's true. The

35:43

search continues. In two thousand

35:45

and one, Uh, you know, we had mentioned

35:47

earlier the lack of DNA evidence

35:49

for testing. Now forensic DNA is

35:52

a thing, forensic DNA investigation. Rather,

35:54

in two thousand one, these hair

35:56

strands found in

35:58

the nineteen seventy five Mercury

36:01

Marquis linked

36:03

Haffa to a vehicle that authorities

36:06

believed was used in this disappearance.

36:09

This vehicle, this Mercury, was owned

36:11

by a friend of Haffa's named Charles

36:13

Chucky O'Brien, and they were actually

36:15

they were actually friends. Police

36:18

and uh survivors. Members

36:20

of Haffa's family had always

36:23

believed that O'Brien played

36:25

some sort of role in the disappearance,

36:28

but O'Brien for decades

36:31

had denied being involved in

36:33

any shape, form or fashion.

36:36

He said, In fact, Halfa had never even

36:38

been a passenger in his car. Now,

36:41

just a tip here for all the ne'er do

36:43

wells in the crowd today. If you want

36:45

a stone wall, that's a pretty that's a pretty

36:47

good way to do it, you know what I mean. That's

36:50

like just under the level of playing so

36:52

dumb that you say I own a car. Yeah,

36:56

okay, we found these hairs

36:58

of Jimmy Hoffas in your car here.

37:01

He's never even been in there. I don't

37:03

want a car. What's hair? Guys,

37:08

this is a lot for me to take in. Gosh.

37:11

But uh but this

37:14

lead this search also peter doubt because

37:16

you see authorities

37:19

linked Haffa or is Us some

37:21

strands of his hair to the car, but they were

37:23

not able to determine when Halfa would

37:25

have been in the car. This also could

37:27

mean that since he and Chucky

37:29

hang out a lot, that maybe the

37:31

hair just got on some of

37:34

Chucky's clothing or something. And I think we maybe

37:36

bury the lead here a little bit. Chucky was uh

37:39

more than just a friend. He was half A's adopted

37:41

son. And the way it's portraying the movie. I

37:43

was a little confused about it too, because

37:46

there's a scene where somebody pulls

37:48

a gun on Halfa during

37:50

one of his trials or like, you know, one of

37:52

his corruption trials, and Chucky

37:55

kicks the crap out of the guy, and Haffa

37:57

makes a big scene about saying, as my boy,

37:59

you know, like I raised him or whatever. You run from a knife,

38:02

your charge a gun, You charge a gun exactly,

38:04

um point being it wasn't

38:06

his blood sign, it wasn't his uh

38:09

biological sign, but essentially was someone

38:12

he had taken under his wing and referred to

38:14

more or less as his adopted So so my question

38:16

is surely he if they were as close as as

38:18

as the record indicates, he would have been in that

38:20

car before. He's never been in my car.

38:23

What is a car? I have a car. I

38:25

don't understand, Charles w Chucky O'Brien.

38:30

So there were more searches. They've continued.

38:33

We mentioned that two thousand and twelve

38:35

search based on the

38:37

testimony of she Won or the statements

38:39

of she Wren. Investigators did search

38:41

that residents based on a tip two

38:44

thousand twelve. They didn't they didn't

38:46

find anything, and they found some blood,

38:48

but it wasn't office. I think every time I hear the

38:50

name Shearon, she

38:53

Ra, Oh you know, yeah,

38:59

that wasn't me. I never understood

39:01

what wasn't she woman because

39:03

there was this internal consistent he man,

39:06

Yeah, and then she Ra. Why

39:08

couldn't it be he Ra? That'd be

39:10

cool. Actually, I was more of

39:12

a ThunderCats guy. I was the superior

39:15

Muscley mutant show in my opinion.

39:19

Oh wow,

39:22

we're doing the low fi dub step. That

39:24

was kind of the Hank Hill versus

39:28

I was gonna. I thought it's gonna be so much more intense

39:30

than that. I was kind of bracing myself, and because

39:33

we were we were reacting to your

39:35

brace. It was we held

39:38

back because you were clearly I think we both thought

39:40

that you were. You were just letting the moment

39:42

build and you were going to scream it. Oh

39:45

yeah, it was great. We'll fix

39:47

it in post No, I don't need it, so

39:49

it was great. Yeah, unrelated. Rewatched

39:52

the live action he man,

39:56

I liked it. You know who plays Skeletor

40:00

uh not Dolph Loren uh Frank,

40:02

No, Yeah, that's it. And

40:04

he he's the only person who hasn't disowned

40:07

the film because his kids liked it. He played

40:09

a very strange skeletor. Also,

40:12

you know, some toy lines just don't have

40:14

the narrative heft to

40:16

hold a feature. You know, they

40:19

even had man at arms in there. Anyway,

40:22

what else was Franklin go in? Oh

40:25

yeah, he's in a bunch of stuff,

40:28

but he was not in the Halfa investigation.

40:31

Probably to wrap this

40:33

one up. In uh June,

40:36

the FBI gets another tip and

40:38

they search of field in Oakland Township,

40:40

Michigan. That's about twenty miles away from where

40:43

Halfa was last scene. There

40:45

was a guy involved in crime named Tony

40:47

Zarelli. Not the stereotype,

40:50

but this is there's a Tony

40:52

heavy tail and Zarelli

40:55

gave the gave the authorities info

40:58

about where he said Halfa was buried. He

41:00

also described how

41:02

Halfa died. He said, Oh yeah, he's

41:04

the he's the person who said that

41:07

Halfa was hit on the head with a shovel and buried

41:09

alive. But he said

41:11

this in an e book that he was selling for

41:13

profit. Uh And nothing

41:16

came of it. So either the

41:18

authorities were bad at digging or

41:22

Zarelli was miss from remembering. But

41:24

at this point, no one no

41:26

one has verified any

41:29

remains. The closest they've come would be those strands

41:31

of hair with Halfa's DNA. But

41:34

this also leads us to controversies. The

41:36

Irishman is based on, as we said, a

41:39

single book. Both Scorsese

41:41

and de Niro, who plays she Wren, described

41:44

the character she Wren in the film as

41:46

a fictional persona based

41:48

on or loosely inspired by

41:50

the real guy. And furthermore,

41:53

not all Halfa experts agree

41:55

with she Wren's story. A couple

41:58

of them think it's total millar. Oh.

42:00

Yeah. The author, Dan Moldea,

42:03

he wrote the book The Halfa Wars and

42:06

he's been researching the disappearance of this gentleman

42:08

for God for years.

42:11

So he was speaking with Robert de Niro and

42:14

he basically was trying to ward

42:17

off de Niro, saying

42:19

that he, you know, he's got all these doubts about

42:21

sheering story, and he's telling DeNiro

42:23

that sheer and Brandt were I

42:26

for, let's say, essentially

42:29

running a con job on DeNiro saying this

42:31

is you should not be doing this, so like

42:33

why would you make this movie? Um?

42:36

But again like this

42:40

is pretty this is a pretty interesting story.

42:42

Even if it's not true, I would say

42:44

it's it's pretty good storytelling and

42:47

and it makes me want to watch it. Are

42:49

we in spoiler territory here for the film?

42:51

I feel like we've kind of danced around it, right,

42:54

Uh we can, Yeah, we could go ahead. Let's do

42:56

the spoiler countdown because it is a new film.

42:59

Three you and one there's

43:02

I was. I didn't, I didn't haven't done

43:04

my homework. Is that much Before watching

43:06

this I knew it was based on a book. I

43:08

did not realize that it was meant to

43:11

be unequivocally like this

43:13

guy killed Jimmy Hoffa, And

43:15

when the moment in the film where that happens,

43:18

I wasn't expecting it. And then I immediately

43:20

googled Irish men fiction,

43:23

you know, And I think that's sort

43:26

of the consensus is that it's

43:28

a little more fiction or at

43:30

least, you know, conflation of fact

43:32

and fiction and is pure uh

43:34

nonfiction storytelling, because it

43:37

again is based on one book, one

43:39

man's account, a deathbed confession.

43:41

Essentially, you know, this guy did not live much

43:43

longer past this interview, and that's that's

43:46

got dramatized in the film as well, the fact

43:48

that he's delivering this story

43:50

to the perspective

43:52

camera, which is you know, supposed

43:54

to be the journalist of you know, which is you are the

43:56

stand in for that kind of as a viewer. Excellent

43:59

film. But when I saw that, I was like, WHOA, Okay,

44:02

I guess we're this is sort of a hybrid thing

44:04

I'm seeing here, like Once upon a Time in Hollywood

44:06

for example. Um, but

44:09

if you are to believe the book, then

44:11

this this is how it happened. I do want to

44:13

bring something up my my father

44:15

in law talked with me about this pretty

44:18

extensively. His he is also

44:20

a Tony and he told

44:22

me that, without

44:25

getting into too much detail, if

44:27

this kind of thing was going to go down with

44:29

somebody like Jimmy Hoffa, the

44:31

only way you could pull it off is to

44:33

get one of his closest associates or

44:35

friends to do it himself. Because so

44:39

it would make sense for Sharon's

44:41

character to actually be the one who's able

44:44

to get close enough to do it. Because we haven't

44:46

really talked about this exactly,

44:48

but I mean they're basically brothers

44:51

in the film. And there's another character the

44:53

has the Buffaloni crime family

44:55

you know, it was Russell's played by Joe Pesci,

44:58

wonderful performance. Um.

45:01

The three of them are kind of inseparable. They're

45:03

they're almost like a family. But Jimmy

45:05

in particular gets a really close relationship

45:07

with his daughter and that's the whole thing.

45:10

Um. But yeah, he has trusts

45:13

him like a like a blood brother. Well,

45:15

one of the other reasons, I mean, think of the logistics.

45:17

If you're trying to pull off a job like this, you

45:20

have somebody who not only

45:22

has a protective close

45:24

circle, but they also have a

45:28

established schedule, calendar. People

45:31

know where and when they're supposed to be at

45:33

the majority of times. It's not like

45:36

if you're just doing you know, uh,

45:39

if you're just landing in a strange town

45:41

and finding someone under a bridge that no

45:43

one will miss for a few weeks, Like

45:46

this is an established thing where

45:48

you have you know, you have at

45:50

most probably a few hours

45:53

to get out of town, right, So

45:55

it's it definitely I

45:57

think your father in law is on the

46:00

money. Yeah, and it's kind of scary, but yes, let's

46:02

let's continue. So Dan Muldeya

46:05

has his own theory. He believes half as disappearance

46:07

was in his mind, a New Jersey

46:10

operation. He said he's interviewed

46:12

all the suspected killers in his decades

46:15

long search for the

46:17

truth of the matter, and he

46:19

he thinks that it's most likely that

46:22

it was a production of New Jersey operators.

46:25

Paul Mission Control Decade raised a

46:27

great point off air earlier when

46:31

we were talking, and he said, one thing that he found,

46:34

um, one thing that he found compelling

46:37

was that the story she runs

46:39

account felt kind of understated, like

46:42

the way Nol depicted it. This

46:44

this death is you know, there's

46:46

not a lot of gravitas build up.

46:49

It feels abrupt and brutal.

46:53

If that is, and the last one was

46:55

the last one, promise, If that is Jimmy

46:57

Hoffa killed himself. We didn't talk

47:00

about this. We're not gonna talk too much about it because

47:02

there's not a ton of evidence to

47:04

lean on here. But what if he committed

47:06

pseudo side, which, as we all know, is

47:09

the fancy pants cravat

47:11

wearing word for faking one's death.

47:14

Uh, it is very very difficult to do

47:16

successfully if you want to make any money.

47:19

Um, it is not impossible

47:21

to do if you want to just disappear and live by

47:23

your wits or if you have access

47:25

to someone who makes some very accurate

47:28

idea of some sort. Right.

47:30

Could he have gone uh with the

47:33

federal witness Protection program?

47:35

Could he have gone with your with the uh?

47:38

Could he have gone with the institution that is sometimes

47:40

called witless protection UH?

47:43

And and if so, what

47:46

happened to him? Well, we know that Jimmy

47:48

Hoffa died for

47:51

legal purposes on July. He

47:55

was declared legally dead as we record

47:58

today's episode. His disappearance and

48:00

his likely death have yet to be confirmed.

48:03

Let's do a little math. If he were alive

48:05

in nineteen as we record

48:07

this, he would be a hundred and six years old.

48:10

That means even if somehow he actually

48:12

went off the grid, you know, changed

48:14

his name to Himmy Jaffa or

48:17

whatever and lived in a small town in Saskatchewan

48:19

or something, he probably

48:22

already passed away.

48:24

But that hasn't stopped the investigation. As a

48:26

matter of fact, this is

48:28

this is one of the things we can leave you with. The

48:32

film and the book that

48:34

we've mentioned today may have

48:37

inspired US investigators to get

48:39

back on the case. So this was December.

48:42

This is right now as we're recording this.

48:45

As the Irishman has come out. Uh.

48:47

There's an interview with U S attorney

48:49

Matthew Schneider, and this

48:52

guy was asked by you know, a reporter

48:54

by someone there, what do you you know? What do you think about

48:56

the Irishman? What are your thoughts? Well, his

48:58

statement was, uh,

49:01

certainly intriguing. I will talk about

49:03

this, but not now. I have

49:05

a lot of thoughts about it. It's unresolved.

49:08

I have my own theories. There will

49:10

be more to come on this. Yeah,

49:13

I mean, you know, I didn't mean to dismiss

49:16

this whole thing as being like some sort

49:18

of fantasy. Obviously there's

49:21

information in this film and in this book

49:23

that is meaningful. Um,

49:25

but you can draw your inclusions. But anybody like this

49:27

is actually really close to the story. Surely

49:29

there's gonna be some stuff that there's a ring of truth

49:32

to, or that he knows unequivocally is true.

49:34

And I'd be interested to hear uh this

49:36

perspective. I think that it's the people that are still

49:38

alive that I think that can really shed

49:40

some light on which parts of this are real, and that's yet to

49:42

be determined. And this is also uh

49:46

TikTok situation because

49:49

many of the people who would have been in their prime

49:51

and directly involved have passed

49:53

on. That's just how, you

49:55

know, That's just how

49:57

the body crumbles, right, And yeah,

50:01

it makes me. It makes me wonder

50:03

if a deathbed confession

50:06

has already occurred. It just kind of went

50:08

unnoticed because the family and

50:10

the surrounding people were just like, okay,

50:12

whatever, whatever, Grandpa, you're crazy

50:15

or or even um,

50:17

Grandpa, what are you think? Mmmmmmm

50:20

no, no, no, no, no no no. We don't talk about their grandpa.

50:22

Grandpa. It's supposed to be America. You

50:24

know the rules. Get the pillow. I'm

50:26

just you know, that was dark. I apologize. We're

50:31

gonna take it. Hey, Grandpa, We're gonna take a quick

50:33

trip over to the Giants Stadium. It's gonna

50:35

be fine, Grandpa, just come with us. The best

50:37

view is from outside the player. This

50:40

is terrible, that field of dreams, right,

50:43

So we at this point

50:45

past the torch to you, fellow

50:48

listeners, what do you think has

50:50

this been solved unofficially

50:53

the way that the former region in charge

50:55

of the investigation believes it has. Will

50:57

The answer to Jimmy Hoffa's disappear

51:00

Urrance UH is widely suspected

51:02

death ever come to light, why

51:05

or why not? We want to

51:07

hear from you. You can find us on Facebook.

51:09

You can find us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter.

51:12

Special shout out to our Facebook

51:14

community page. Here's where it gets

51:16

crazy. We can't wait to swing by there

51:18

and see what you think about Jimmy

51:21

Hoffa. Also, Hey, you know, we're

51:23

just gonna shoot our shot. If you have

51:25

information about the disappearance

51:27

of hafa Um,

51:30

send it, send it to us. We won't wrat you

51:32

out, we promise. Yeah, ed cheering if

51:34

you know what you're you know, relatives

51:37

did like let us know. Yeah, that guy's got a Shrek

51:39

tattoo. I did not know that he has a

51:41

couple. Actually, I think it's a Donkey and the Shrek.

51:43

He's really into Shrek? Is he the one who did I'm

51:45

in love with your body? Is that about

51:47

Jimmy Hoffa? That's good, that's

51:50

good, Ben. I would prefer to believe

51:52

it. But the line I believe

51:54

is now his bedsheets smell

51:57

like you. Yeah, Jimmy.

52:01

I'm gonna look up the lyrics for this after

52:04

we wrapped. In the meantime, Hey, what do you

52:06

do if you hate the social meats, but

52:08

you still want to tell us what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.

52:11

You give us a call. You call one

52:13

eight three three s T d

52:16

W y t K. Just

52:18

give us a call. You'll hear Ben's voice.

52:20

There will be a beep and then just say I'm

52:22

in love with the obody and I will

52:24

be like, whoa, it was about the Jimmy Hoffa

52:26

episode, and then leave your message. We'll get

52:28

it um. If you don't want

52:30

to do any of that stuff, but you still want to

52:32

contact us, you have an idea for an episode, you want

52:34

to tell us anything at all, you can send us a good old

52:37

fashioned email. We are conspiracy

52:39

at iHeart radio dot com.

52:59

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53:01

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53:03

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53:05

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