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Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve

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Camray. It's ready. Are you welcome

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to Stuff you Should Know from

0:08

House Stuff Works dot Com.

0:15

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

0:17

Clark. With me is always as Charles W.

0:20

Chuckers Bryant, and

0:22

that makes this stuff you should know. I'm

0:25

always here for you. Josh. Yeah,

0:27

Hey, don't whatever.

0:29

I'm glad you are. Chuck. Sure. This

0:32

is UM Day two,

0:35

Episode two in the new Studio. Yes,

0:38

the walls are closing in on us. I'm kind of looking

0:40

in here now. I'm already used to it, Chuck,

0:43

Josh. Um, So the

0:45

Bible has been popping up in my

0:47

life a lot lately. Really, Yeah,

0:51

um, you mean? And I just started subscribing

0:53

to Harper's Monthly Weekly,

0:56

one of those two. It's like this magazine

0:58

from like eight nine, okay.

1:01

Um. And in the first

1:03

article of the first issue that we got, it's

1:06

um there's a there's I

1:08

guess notes section by

1:11

a guy who says that the Old

1:13

Testament is an allegory

1:15

for the Neolithic revolution. Remember

1:17

we went from hunting and gathering to agriculture.

1:21

And he made some really cool points,

1:24

Um, like for example, Kane and Abel.

1:27

Abel was a herdsman, Kane

1:29

was a farmer. Kane murdered

1:31

Abel, right, so he

1:33

slew him, uh first murder.

1:35

Ever, as far as we know, yes,

1:39

um, I can't remember what he said about Adam

1:41

and Eve. But basically like that's the beginning

1:44

where we It was actually kind of a cautionary

1:46

tale. Yeah, like like be careful,

1:48

there's all this other stuff associated with agriculture

1:51

that you're not seeing. Um So,

1:53

I found that intensely interesting. Then

1:56

you suggest we do one on the Jefferson

1:58

Bible, and I'm like, what's going on here?

2:01

Right right? Third one, number

2:04

three? This elderly

2:06

woman by all right, she's

2:08

in her eighties, nineties,

2:11

spitfire ladies still though, sure, I

2:13

didn't like to use a blinker When she stopped suddenly

2:16

in parking lots when I'm right behind her, the um

2:19

so I went around her. I was a little

2:21

irritated, and I wanted her to know it. She

2:24

lays on her horn and

2:26

I let's stick my head out, and I'm like, be quiet,

2:28

and like you did not, I

2:31

go in park and I go into the into

2:33

the um, into public spe quiet.

2:38

This woman comes and finds me and

2:41

it's like, are you the sir,

2:43

You the gentleman who went around

2:45

me and traffic blah blah blah, and she's like

2:47

berating me loudly in the middle of public.

2:49

He said, I'm no gentleman. So finally

2:52

she ends it with you need to get

2:54

to church. And

2:57

I was like, I swear to God,

2:59

I'm not kidding you. My friend

3:02

tom My bff Tom was

3:04

on the phone with me. He can verify this, and

3:06

he said, Betty White is coming after me in a

3:08

public I wish this was Betty White.

3:10

This woman was terrifying. She was wearing

3:13

like clam diggers with

3:15

um white sox, pulled up black s

3:17

a S shoes um.

3:19

Her skin hung loose, and

3:22

she had fire in her She

3:24

wanted to kill me. What did you say? Did you reply

3:26

anything? Or did you just sheepish sleep? Rather, I

3:28

wasn't sheepish. You're not gonna say

3:30

what you said? You can tell me afterwards there, right, okay?

3:33

But I was. I wasn't cheapish. I wasn't like entirely

3:35

mean, but I didn't I didn't frankly,

3:39

as you know, I quit the boy Scouts because

3:41

I think that it's a bad idea

3:43

to just give blanket respect

3:46

to the old people because they're old.

3:49

I've met some old jerks in my time, and

3:51

this was actually one of them.

3:53

So yeah, but this

3:55

this week, man three, it's

3:57

an exciting week. I never talked about the Bible.

4:00

It never comes up, Church never comes up. But

4:02

here we are, all right, Chuck. Did

4:05

Thomas Jefferson right or

4:08

rewrite the Bible? Fact or

4:11

fiction? Hey, that's old school,

4:14

Josh. That is faction because

4:17

he um, he did not rewrite

4:19

the Bible, but he did cobble

4:21

together his own version of the Bible

4:24

that he thought was um

4:28

valid and and should be read.

4:31

I'll just say that, which is actually,

4:34

if you think about it, really

4:37

a pretty pretentious and arrogant thing

4:39

to do. This wouldn't go over well in

4:41

today's president If someone said

4:43

Obama, UM, put

4:46

together, you know, different parts of the Bible

4:48

and said that this was what I think the Bible

4:50

should be, he wouldn't last too long. No,

4:52

I don't think it would have ever gone over If Taft

4:54

had done it, he would have been like run out of town

4:57

on a rail, Like, you can't do that. It's early

4:59

day, so you away with anything. Back then, I suspect

5:01

that Thomas Jefferson had um Asperger's

5:05

from some of his uh, some of

5:07

his um. His demeanor, the

5:09

way carrying himself is incredibly high

5:12

level of intellect. Um.

5:14

I suspect that he had some

5:16

something along those lines. Right, he might

5:19

have. You can also say that he

5:21

could not have cared less what people thought of him.

5:23

He did his own thing. Highly intelligent

5:26

guy. Um. And like you said,

5:30

if it had come out that the president had

5:32

done that, a lot of people are unaware of this, that

5:34

it wouldn't go over very well, which is why

5:36

he didn't let it out. I don't know

5:38

that that's why he didn't let it out. I think he just was doing

5:41

it for himself, genuinely. I

5:43

don't think he was trying to be secretive about it.

5:45

But you were saying, like it wouldn't go over well.

5:47

Today, there's kind of

5:49

it's kind of um fashionable in certain

5:52

quarters to point out that

5:54

the founding fathers were bent on founding

5:56

a Christian nation. It's a very contentious

5:59

thing to say, although a lot of people that's

6:01

how they see the United States,

6:04

right. I think Thomas

6:06

Jefferson cutting up the Bible and cutting out all

6:08

the miracles and what he considered

6:10

gobbledygook kind of undermines

6:12

that argument a little bit. Don't you think, well, he was a

6:14

deist. It's a good time to bring that

6:16

up. George Washington was a deist. Benjamin

6:19

Franklin and what we

6:21

call founders, they are they

6:23

differ from traditional Christians because they reject

6:27

miracles, basically a lot of the prophecies,

6:30

and they says here they embraced

6:32

the notion of a well ordered universe created by God,

6:35

but God then withdrew into

6:37

detached transcendence. They

6:39

believe like a lot of things Christians

6:42

believe, but a lot a lot of

6:44

people at the time said this was a way for you to

6:46

reconcile your Christianity with

6:48

all these amazing new scientific findings

6:51

that we're finding that kind of fly in the face of

6:53

Christianity. Right in Deism was the

6:56

Enlightenment religion, right um.

6:58

And basically the way it looked at God is there's

7:01

a creator God, but he's kind of like a

7:03

clockmaker, and he created this

7:06

clock of a universe wounded

7:08

up and just stood back to to watch

7:10

it go. It's a great way to say. And

7:12

do you remember, like in the really uber paranoid

7:15

late nineties, right before the millennium. There's

7:17

like kind of a concept that the universe

7:19

is a u the result of an

7:21

alien experiment. That's

7:23

kind of like in the same vein. Actually there's

7:26

some higher power

7:29

that doesn't have a hand in our individual lives,

7:31

but start created all this. Yeah,

7:33

pretty interesting, it is. So that was

7:36

That was T J m BF and

7:38

g W T Jeff. That's

7:40

what his nickname today would be T Jeff. His

7:43

nickname today is T Jeff as

7:45

of now. So um.

7:48

He also was the he pinned the Declaration

7:51

of Independence, we should say, which most people

7:53

know. He was also the one who co

7:55

first elucidated the

7:57

wall of separation between church and state.

8:00

Yeah, not did not come from the Constitution.

8:02

No, but he So there's this

8:05

Baptist Convention of dan Berry,

8:08

Yes, the Connecticut Committee of the dan

8:10

Berry Baptist Association, and they wrote

8:12

to Jefferson saying, is this a Christian

8:15

nation or not? Basically he

8:18

basically pointed to know he said, he

8:20

said, he said, no, I I

8:22

I'm sure you agree with me that

8:25

religion is between a man and his God

8:28

and really eloquently said no, there's

8:30

a First Amendment. There's a there's

8:32

a clause in the First Amendment that says that

8:34

that UM Congress won't um

8:37

establish a religion, and so

8:39

I Thomas Jefferson as president and

8:41

one of the guys who wrote that, see

8:44

it as a wall of separation between church and

8:46

state. He thought it was a very very personal

8:49

thing. Religion was spirituality was

8:51

a very personal thing. No one should step in and tell

8:53

you what to think about it, right, It's so

8:55

personal that he decided to craft his own

8:57

Bible. Yes. And one of the reasons

8:59

he did us because Um, like we said,

9:01

he was a deist deist or deist daist.

9:04

I think you can go either way. Now he's a Deist.

9:06

And he was also very skeptical of who

9:09

wrote the Bible, the Gospels in

9:11

particular. He thought they were quote unlettered

9:13

and ignorant. Yeah, basically how

9:15

he saw the Bible writers.

9:18

Um, that's where the name comes

9:20

from. Yeah, those were the Gospel writers.

9:22

But they were also um Platonics.

9:24

They followed Plato and wrote

9:26

around the time of Plato. Um.

9:29

And they remember

9:31

when we were talking about like Halloween, Christmas,

9:34

Easterday. Yeah,

9:37

they're all pagan holidays that we've adopted

9:39

and christianized in in an effort

9:42

Um eastern together. Yeah,

9:44

it wasn't. Yes, spring harvest,

9:46

spring um equinox, vernal

9:48

equinox. I think it's what it's called right, vernal

9:51

and autumnal. Yes, vernal equinox, and

9:54

s Tera was a pagan goddess. Anyway,

9:57

Um, this is this, This is how

9:59

he viewed the the Bible being written like

10:02

like there was a there

10:04

was a person named Jesus of Nazareth.

10:07

He walked awesome guy, philosopher,

10:10

incredible philosopher, had this

10:12

amazing moral code what

10:15

right? Um? And then uh

10:17

and espoused it to people who

10:21

remembered it, passed it down orally, and then somebody

10:23

finally wrote it down. But when they were trying to write

10:25

it down, they were also trying to establish a church.

10:28

And Um, so they added some magic

10:31

so that they could they could bring

10:33

the pagans into the fold a miracles.

10:35

Yes. And he also believed and

10:38

this is where he really wouldn't jibe

10:40

with today's UH system as

10:42

a politician. He did not believe in the

10:44

divinity of Jesus Christ. He did not believe

10:47

that he was the son of God. He

10:49

thought that he was like Plato, essentially

10:52

like a spot on philosopher.

10:54

But he thought a lot of them, he said. Um.

10:56

He wrote a letter to John Adams in eighteen thirteen

10:59

and said that the book that he ended

11:01

up putting together, which we'll get into the nuts and bolts

11:03

of that, but he said he called it the most sublime and

11:06

benevolent code of morals which has ever been

11:08

offered demand. Yeah, Jesus's philosophy.

11:10

Yeah, so he clearly thought a lot of of Jesus's philosophy,

11:13

and he thought a lot of the Greek

11:16

um philosophers and I

11:18

imagine other religious philosophers as well. But

11:20

what he was saying was that what

11:22

Jesus had come up with was as good as it gets.

11:25

He kind of bashed Plato though, did you see that? Yeah?

11:27

He read Plato in the original Greek

11:29

and was like many exactly he found

11:31

it lackluster. Yeah. Yeah, well, I

11:33

guess he's hard to please. He read the Bible

11:35

and he cut it down to forty six pages. He

11:38

did. Christopher Hitchins put it like this, You know,

11:41

Hits, he's not he's not

11:43

a big guy on religion.

11:45

No, he kind of actively combats

11:47

it. But yeah, um on, there's a forty

11:49

six second clip on YouTube

11:51

of Christopher Higgins debating somebody, and

11:54

he describes the Jefferson Bible as what

11:56

was left after Jefferson took a

11:58

pair of scissors and cut out anything

12:00

that could not buy any intelligent person be

12:02

believed. It makes for a slender, convenient

12:05

ready. And yeah, I mean, if

12:07

you take Christopher Hitchins, this is no surprise

12:09

to you. If you love Christopher Hitchins, this is no surprise.

12:12

Yes, But he got one thing wrong. He apparently is a razor

12:14

and not scissors. Small detail.

12:17

He literally he went through and was

12:19

was scratching stuff out, and

12:22

then I think he went back and started cutting stuff

12:24

out. Well, he probably that he found himself

12:26

scratching so much out he got tiresome, and he's

12:28

like, I should just see cut out what I do

12:30

like instead of scratching out what I don't like. Because

12:34

all told, there are thirty one thousand, a hundred

12:36

three Bible verses numbered Bible verses, right,

12:39

but he was just doing the New Testament, so we're talking

12:41

seven thousand and seven, right,

12:44

and specifically the Gospels of

12:47

Matthew and Luke, which there

12:49

well there was more than that, but he he used a lot

12:51

for Matthew and Luke two thousand, two hundred

12:53

twenty two and Matthew and Luke and all told, he

12:56

only had the Jefferson Bible only

12:58

had nine versus.

13:00

So he definitely paired down quite a bit big time.

13:02

He Um, he took out everything about he

13:06

and he took he took out everything about um

13:08

Christ's birth, the virgin birth

13:11

that was gone. He left in the crucifixion,

13:13

but it ends at the burial. There's no

13:15

resurrection. Yeah. Basically the last verse

13:17

was um John nineteen and

13:20

they ended it. His book ends

13:22

with they rolled the stone in front of the sepulcher

13:25

and the the end. Uh.

13:28

He he left a lot of the Last Supper

13:30

ing but kept the part of the Eucharist

13:33

out. This is my body, my

13:36

blood. Yeah. Um. So

13:38

basically he just kept in basically

13:41

the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth

13:44

and his philosophy. Yeah.

13:46

They in the article that he left what they

13:48

called what he considered genuine events

13:51

like the Sermon on the Mount, certain parables,

13:53

the way to live your life. And see, that's always been

13:55

my deal. I don't want to get too personal, but

13:57

you know I was right after the last two

14:00

hundred episodes that. Yeah,

14:02

I was raised Southern Baptist and it wasn't the

14:04

best experience for me. But I still say, I

14:06

still maintain that the Bible has is

14:09

a great moral code, and

14:11

there's lots of great parables that teach

14:13

you how you should act as a

14:15

human. And apparently I'm in Jefferson's

14:18

camp, because that's what he ended up using as

14:20

Uh. He ended up calling it initially

14:23

the Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth and

14:25

then change that title later to

14:28

the Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth,

14:30

right, and then uh in the edition

14:34

there was a subtitle or how

14:36

to get Buying Queens on a dime of day.

14:40

I'll long have you been working on that one? Just now? Yeah?

14:43

Shut up? So,

14:45

Um, it clearly wasn't called how to Win Friends

14:48

and Influence People, because he he this probably

14:50

wasn't a very popular thing to do even back then.

14:53

I'm sure it would have the same effect as how

14:55

to Win friends and Influence people? Though. Yeah,

14:58

but he did keep it quiet it Um,

15:00

he said it was for himself. Again, I

15:03

don't think he kept it quiet. I think

15:05

he he was just keeping

15:07

it for himself. I disagree with part A of

15:09

the sentence you just said, but agree with part

15:11

B. Thank you. Yea. I have a quote from him if you

15:13

want to hear from the man himself. Uh,

15:16

Josh is wrong. No, sorry, he

15:19

said, I performed the operation for my own use

15:21

by cutting verse by verse out of the printed

15:23

book and arranging the matter, which is evidently

15:26

his, and which is as easily

15:28

distinguished as diamonds and a dunghill. That's

15:31

kind of harsh, but he's saying that the

15:34

stuff that really came from Jesus mouth is

15:37

the gold, the diamonds in the

15:39

dunghill. So he extracted all

15:41

that and that was what he believed in. Well,

15:43

yeah, he thought the Platonics were sellouts

15:46

that they should have just you know, maybe not added

15:48

quite so much. So what happened to it, Josh?

15:51

What happened to it? Was it? Basically

15:54

again, he did it for himself. Um.

15:56

I think I read a reference

15:58

that he did it kind of on a

16:01

whim or in um.

16:03

Uh. In response to a question from a friend

16:05

to his Dr Benjamin Rush,

16:07

he said, like, how would you characterize your view

16:10

of Christianity? So he went about doing

16:12

that. I think it's the idea exactly

16:14

got a razor um and

16:16

it was in his private library, which apparently

16:19

somebody inherited, and a Smithsonian

16:21

librarian came across it. What

16:24

I Cerrus Adler. What I found

16:26

funny was Cyrus Adler is a

16:29

government employee, came across

16:31

this and was like, I'm going to sell list

16:33

to the Library of Congress. You

16:35

know though. Yeah, they did, and they

16:37

started putting it in print. Congress ordered it in

16:39

print. Um. Thomas Jefferson is considered

16:42

the father of the Senate. Uh.

16:44

He was the first vice president. Um.

16:46

So he and he wrote the rules of the

16:48

Senate that are still in use today.

16:51

Uh. He just did it because it was bored. One day,

16:54

asked Berger's same regin he cut up the Bible

16:56

yeah, um, and so Congress

16:58

Um. Congress started publishing. I think it published

17:01

like nine thousand copies and

17:03

even still today it's um

17:05

a customary welcome gift

17:07

to new members of Congress. I find

17:09

that interesting, like

17:11

the same Congress who are like, this is a Christian

17:14

nation. Yeah, but I mean it's

17:16

still in there. That's that's the diamond.

17:19

But it is very interesting that they would give

17:21

an altered version of the Bible as a gift.

17:24

Yeah, I mean it's it's not as odd

17:26

as if they were to give like Alistair Crowley's

17:28

memoirs, but

17:31

it was definitely a little odd. When I read that, I

17:33

was slightly shocked. Yeah, well

17:35

it kind of comes it

17:38

kind of reveals a certain disingenuousness.

17:40

Done that, Yeah, a little bit possibly

17:43

makes you think at least well, and then

17:46

lets you know what was in Thomas Jefferson's mind,

17:48

and he's easily one of the most fascinating historical

17:50

figures we have. You got anything

17:52

else? No, if you want

17:55

to know more about the Jefferson Bible, you can

17:57

read this pretty cool article by McGrath.

18:00

You can find it online the whole

18:03

Bible. You can do both. How about

18:05

let's get some people this site first, that's true.

18:08

Uh. You just type in Jefferson Bible

18:10

and the handy search bart how stuff works dot com.

18:13

Uh, and then after that you might as well just go

18:15

read the Jefferson Bible, right, yes,

18:18

yes, which leads us to listener

18:22

questions. So

18:26

yeah, we we put out a call on Facebook a couple of weeks

18:28

ago for questions and we got bombarded.

18:30

So we're actually having to do this in installments, because

18:32

there are a lot of good questions. These are the really

18:36

we need new questions, man, No, no, no,

18:38

no, old no. These are brand new. You're

18:41

lying every two weeks ago. But there's still new because

18:43

we haven't used them. So we're gonna bust a lot

18:45

of these pretty quickly. Chuck

18:47

says, who's taller between Josh Chuckers and

18:50

Jerry. Josh is the tallest,

18:52

at a robust six ft or so. I'm

18:55

about on the nun about five tin, Jerry,

18:58

how tall are you behind

19:02

the curtain? Go ahead,

19:04

I've got one from Colin. Who

19:06

would win in a fist fight? Ire a Glass or Josh?

19:09

I think it would be a um we can

19:11

actually size we sized him up physically in person

19:13

now. I think it would be like a um,

19:16

humiliating slap fight for both guys.

19:18

I don't know that there would be a fight. Would be more

19:21

like, um, do you remember

19:23

Adam Goldberg in Daisy

19:26

Confused? Yes? Do you remember when he's being

19:28

pulled off or when when um

19:31

Nikki Kat's being pulled off at him? Yeah?

19:33

I think it would be like that, but both of us, both

19:35

of us is Adam Goldberg? Yeah? Uh?

19:39

Tripp says can you finally reveal

19:41

the name of the big box appliance store that UM

19:44

did not do? Chuck right with his extended warty.

19:47

I don't think that that would be very smart. Do

19:49

you know that? Even I don't know what it is. I

19:51

don't think that would be very brand smart

19:53

to do, Josh. So I'm not going

19:55

to thank you trip for the question,

19:59

Chuck. I'm not reading

20:01

this one. So here's another one from Natalie.

20:04

Would you consider doing a six degrees

20:06

of separation from your listeners? I go first.

20:09

My sister Kathleen went to ride Dan High

20:11

School with Chuck. Kathleen

20:13

egan awesome, So

20:16

that's not a question. Even ends in

20:18

an exclamation point.

20:21

Tom says, what's it like being so old? Chuck?

20:23

Tom? It is awesome? Go

20:25

ahead. Okay, there's one from Hannah.

20:27

Which is better cake or pie? What

20:30

do you call a soft drink? I call it soda.

20:32

My pubby calls it pop. That's two questions.

20:35

I call it coke. I call it coke as

20:37

well. I grew up calling it pop. Yeah.

20:39

What's better? Cake and pie? Actually,

20:42

there's nothing better than a good cake pie. Yeah?

20:44

I like cake cake pie. Brittany,

20:47

Oh, this is Brittany from New York and actually,

20:49

to answer that question, pies better remember

20:51

Brittany britt britt Yes, Brittany

20:54

says, does hippie Rob participate in the s y FK

20:56

drinking game which we don't sanction? No one knows

20:58

we're a hippie robbis and if so, is he the all

21:00

time record holder? Uh? I don't

21:03

even know that hippie Rob knows that

21:05

s y s K exists, and of course she doesn't. I don't

21:07

think he does. Uh So, this one's

21:09

from Bobby. What are your favorite bands of all times

21:12

or your favorite songs? My favorite band of

21:14

all time? Clear winner is the Pixies.

21:16

Chuck really oh yeah, probably

21:19

go with like the Who or Pavement.

21:21

Maybe Zeppee Brianna

21:25

are favorite fan. Brianna

21:28

says, what were your first impressions of each other?

21:31

I thought Josh was like me when I first met a Mint.

21:33

It turns out he sort of is, and he's sort

21:35

of not. It's not true at all. Now I

21:37

knew we were like fellow Um. I

21:39

thought you were a cool guy, reformed bad

21:42

boys. You know, you had

21:44

that pack of cigarettes rolled up in your sleeve. That

21:47

was the dig giveaway I've got one from

21:49

Ebba. How does Jerry work? She

21:51

doesn't? Oh, not true?

21:54

Um, Christopher, what's

21:56

it like living in Hotlanta? Particularly now that the

21:59

summer starting? It is awful? And

22:01

I grew up here and it's still awful.

22:03

And it's not like you get used. It's gotten exponentially

22:06

worse even since I moved down here. You

22:09

can't break, It's like you're swimming outside.

22:11

Yeah, I got one more. This

22:14

one is from Mark. If you could

22:16

have one superpower, what would it be?

22:19

Flying invisibility?

22:21

Well, those are the questions. I'm not done

22:23

yet. I got two more quick ones. Josh Shan

22:26

says, would you like cheese with that? Always

22:28

of course as the answer to that question. And

22:31

Joe says, what is the best most

22:34

unique piece of free swag anyone

22:36

has sent you? And I think we

22:38

just got it this week. Yeah, I'm

22:40

gonna have to go with the Root suit, are you?

22:43

Yeah? The Root Suit, for

22:45

those of you that are always sunny in Philadelphia

22:47

fans, is the green Man costume that

22:49

Charlie wears. And so I requested

22:51

a green Man outfit and you won't

22:54

take it off? And I got it, and I wrote

22:56

the guy today and said thank you so much for the green

22:58

Man thing. I'm really excited, and said

23:00

your life, your new life begins now,

23:03

your new life of leaving absolutely nothing

23:05

to the imagination. Chuck, it's disturbing.

23:08

Nobody wants to see this, So if

23:10

you have a question for us, go join our

23:12

Facebook fan page jerk It's

23:14

uh Facebook dot com, YadA YadA,

23:17

stuff you should know, follow us on Twitter,

23:20

s y s K podcast, and as

23:22

always, you can send us an email. We still like those.

23:25

It's very you know, late nineties, but still

23:27

it's cute. You can send it to Stuff

23:30

podcast at how stuff works dot

23:32

com

23:37

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23:39

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23:41

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23:46

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23:49

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23:52

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