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Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve

0:02

Camray. It's ready. Are you welcome

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to stuff you should know from

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house Stuff Works dot com.

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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

0:17

Clark. This Charles W. Chuck Bryant.

0:20

You can probably hear his forehead and scraping against

0:22

his mic cover. You do not feel

0:24

like doing us today? Do? No, We're

0:26

gonna do it anyway. I mean, yes, we do

0:29

not know we do? You can't affirm

0:31

with the negative, yes we don't. Well,

0:35

there it is Chuck, the cleverest banter we

0:37

will ever have. Um.

0:40

Hey, how are you? How are you? I'm fine, man,

0:42

I'm feeling aggressive. I want to punch something.

0:45

You've been playing violent video games, and I've been reading

0:47

about people playing violent video games. It's

0:49

apparently the magic

0:51

bullet. It's what really makes you aggressive

0:54

reading about that kind of thing. Oh, reading about

0:57

yeah, articles on that sure. Yeah,

1:00

so we need to be watching out for um.

1:03

Yeah, people who read like parenting sections

1:06

on like HuffPo or MSNBC, or

1:08

like some of the most violent criminals now

1:11

because of those um, Chuck,

1:13

are you familiar with a little country

1:16

called Germany? Mm?

1:18

Hmm yeah, old Uh

1:21

is that that's Russian, isn't it? That's

1:24

Germany. I

1:26

don't know if you've noticed this' not chuck, but over the last

1:28

few weeks, I've gotten increasingly dumber.

1:31

Have you picked up on that? Who you have? I

1:33

have? UM? I don't really

1:36

know. My the frequency of mispronouncing

1:38

words has just gone up dramatically,

1:40

which is really saying something. Um.

1:44

Uh getting language is wrong, as

1:46

I just did. That's a big one. Uh

1:48

fallen asleep in the middle of stuff like

1:52

I'm about to right now. Okay, Uh,

1:54

chuck, you've heard of Germany? Uh. In

1:56

two thousand six, late two thousand

1:58

six, there was some thing of a fairly

2:01

radical proposal that came up from

2:03

the representatives of Bavaria

2:06

and Lower Saxony get those

2:08

two together. Things happen normally,

2:10

not in this case, but normally. The

2:13

representatives proposed a bill that

2:16

would offer fines

2:19

of uh. Well, I don't know how much

2:21

the fines were, but the penalty of jail

2:23

time up to twelve months for

2:26

um may I quote uh,

2:30

cruel violence on humans or human

2:32

looking characters inside

2:34

games. So creating a game

2:37

inside games, yes, said,

2:39

yeah, that's funny. Creating a game

2:41

where there is violence violence can

2:43

happen, or playing a

2:46

video game and inflicting violence

2:48

virtual violence could get your

2:50

twelve months in jail, according to these guys.

2:53

So you can't play Call of Duty

2:56

you would spend the rest of your life in jail. If

3:00

these guys had had their rather

3:02

radical resolution passed,

3:06

it felt flat on its face. But

3:08

the whole thing was in reaction to um

3:11

the the prior month, the

3:15

spree killing or almost I

3:17

guess free maiming by Sebastian

3:19

Boss, who was eighteen.

3:21

He was the worst school shooter Germany ever had.

3:24

Any He wounded thirty seven

3:26

people, didn't kill anybody, Um,

3:28

but he did kill himself. You

3:31

you you remember he played

3:33

counter Strike a lot. I find it interesting that

3:35

he shot thirty seven people and didn't

3:37

kill anyone. I'll bet he found

3:40

that something other than interesting. Did

3:42

he try to just wound? No, I

3:44

know that's probably dumb question. No, he went on a

3:46

rampage and he just missed. Okay,

3:49

so anyway, this is god he well

3:52

yeah, he um, but he played

3:54

a lot of counter Strike. That was his big thing. And

3:56

nowadays is you you have grown

3:58

up and since the nine and

4:00

you've been paying attention, so you know that anytime

4:02

there's a spree shooting at a school

4:05

by a teenager, one of the first

4:07

things that comes out is what their violent

4:10

video game of choice was. And

4:13

legislation like this out of Germany.

4:16

Is it is radical like putting someone

4:18

in jail for acts of virtual

4:20

violence? Um, but it's

4:23

it's getting to be par for the course, you know,

4:26

which leads us to a very big question,

4:28

though, before you start throwing people in jail for

4:31

playing video games, before creating video

4:33

games, we have to prove whether

4:35

or not video games is

4:37

especially violent ones cause real

4:40

life violence. And as

4:42

I learned after reading this article, the jury

4:45

is very much still out on that. Yeah,

4:48

although both sides have very persuasive

4:51

arguments, and I think you should explore buff Um,

4:55

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's probably hard to prove

4:58

anything when it comes to this. Why.

5:02

Well, because of all the reasons we're going to mention,

5:04

it's it's a very complicated issue. Yeah,

5:07

Um, whether or not that was the thing that pushed someone

5:09

over the edge, or whether or not it was an inspiration,

5:11

whether or not it had nothing to do with it.

5:13

It's uh, it's tough to prove

5:16

something like that, right, And there's a lot of people who

5:18

are like, yes, school shooters are

5:20

horrifying, They're terrifying.

5:22

The idea that your kid could go to

5:25

school and get shot and

5:27

killed by a classmate on a rampage, that's

5:30

that that would terrify anybody. So yeah, of course

5:32

you want to get to the root of it. But a lot of people

5:34

are saying, don't stop

5:36

at video games. Even the a p A,

5:39

The American Psychological Association,

5:42

UM, who are very much

5:44

in favor of the idea that violent

5:46

video games cause real life violence, say,

5:50

don't just stop at video games, like that's

5:52

one part of a larger hole, and

5:54

we've not figured it out because video

5:57

games. You can just lay that at the feet of one thing

5:59

and go back to work. Let

6:01

your let your kids go back to playing

6:03

video games. Yeah, I gotta quote,

6:05

I was gonna hang onto this might as well read it though. UM.

6:08

There's a book written called Grand Theft Childhood,

6:11

The Surprising Truth about Violent video

6:13

Games and what Parents can do, And this is

6:15

by Lawrence Kutner and

6:17

Cheryl Olsen, and they are co directors

6:20

of the Harvard Medical School Center for Mental

6:22

Health and media. They wrote

6:24

this book. Um, and they have a

6:26

guy that they interviewed, a psychologist

6:29

who specializes in media research called

6:32

Guy Cumberbatch. Wow, it

6:34

sounds like a Simpson's character. He's

6:36

real though, Um And he says,

6:39

uh, and I'm gonna quote. The real puzzle

6:41

is that anyone looking at the research evidence in

6:43

this field could draw any conclusions about the pattern,

6:46

let alone argue with such confidence and even

6:48

passion that demonstrates the harmon

6:50

violence on television, in film, and in video

6:53

games. While test of statistical

6:55

significance are a vital tool of

6:57

the social sciences, they seem to

6:59

have been more often used in this field as

7:02

instruments of torture on the data until

7:04

it confesses something which could justify

7:06

publication in a scientific journal. So

7:10

basically, he's, in a very verbose

7:13

way, kind of said, what you're saying is

7:15

that it's easy to scapegoat

7:18

something like a video game by

7:20

looking at um anecdotal

7:23

research. It is very easy.

7:26

Um. And Also, I think part of the reason why

7:28

school shooters not not just

7:30

because they're so sensational they

7:32

are, sure, also because

7:35

most if not all of them did play violent

7:38

video games, but also because the

7:40

school shooting rampage so closely

7:43

mirrors video game action

7:46

even to the casual observer. Um

7:49

that I think like it's something that's really

7:51

been zeroed in on. Well, the army

7:53

uses it for training, you know, and

7:56

so it's bound to be Uh,

7:59

it's bound to put you in that headspace

8:01

which makes a lot of sense. Sure, which

8:03

is that's an argument on the

8:05

side of um people

8:07

who say that, yes, video games, violent

8:10

video games create real life violence. So

8:12

let's let's explore that. Let's look at the

8:14

the side that says yes, obviously,

8:17

ding Bat, if you play violent

8:19

video games, you're going to be

8:21

violent. And this isn't new. By the way,

8:23

we should point out that like before video

8:26

games, it was laid at the feet of TV, well,

8:28

comic books before that, even before that.

8:31

And I wondered, though, if you go back far

8:33

enough, the media is a fairly recent

8:35

thing, at least as far as like entertainment

8:38

media. So say the

8:40

advent of radio, big radio

8:43

in like the twenties. Say, what

8:46

did anybody blame violence on before

8:48

that? Uh?

8:51

Probably the real reason, which is that some

8:54

people are sociopaths. Well,

8:56

I think you you make an excellent point,

8:58

Chuck, What what you're saying, I think I tend to agree

9:00

with is that's possible in in everybody,

9:05

and then probably more possible

9:07

in some of us than others. So

9:09

is it just a convergence of large public

9:11

schools where you have a lot of people who you don't like

9:14

sitting like ducks in one place,

9:16

and converging with access easy

9:18

access to guns? Is

9:21

that all the school shooter is. It's pretty

9:23

complicated issue. Okay, so go ahead and sorry

9:25

about that. That's all right? UM, I guess

9:27

we can sign a couple of more cases that in

9:29

the media at least have placed the blame

9:31

on on video

9:34

games UM. In two thousand

9:36

and six, in Alabama, Devon Moore famously

9:39

ah was arrested for

9:41

car theft UM suspicion and he's

9:44

eighteen. Brought him into the station to book

9:46

him, and he kind

9:48

of went nuts. He attacked the cop,

9:50

stole his gun, shot him, shot

9:52

another cop, went down the hall, shot

9:55

at nine one one dispatch in the head, then

9:57

grabbed the squad car keys and

9:59

took off in squad car. That's crazy.

10:01

And and what game did he play? He played

10:04

Grand Theft Auto, which is pretty

10:06

much how that game goes down, And reportedly

10:09

after he was arrested. He even said, quote

10:11

life as a video game, everybody's got

10:13

to die sometime. And he was

10:15

convicted and sentenced to death, and

10:17

I could not find out if

10:20

he's still on death row or if he was put

10:22

to death. It's so frustrating

10:25

when you can't find out something that should be so

10:27

easy to find out. Did you try the Alabama's

10:29

Department of Corrections website. No, I mean I was

10:31

gonna call somebody, but it just ran out of

10:33

time. So at any rate, he was convicted,

10:35

an appealed, and I think that appeal was denied. But

10:38

um, when this happens a

10:41

lot of times, there are lawsuits filed. In

10:43

the case of Columbine, one

10:45

of the wife of a teacher

10:48

there, um sued wh

10:50

she sue. She sued Sony and Nintendo and

10:53

Time Warner and Palm Pictures because, Uh,

10:56

Clibold and Harris had also watched

10:58

The Basketball Die. Yeah, you remember

11:01

that party. But

11:04

what's strange is that that movie

11:06

came out and with the late nineties, but

11:08

the Basketball Diaries were written by Jim Carroll

11:10

and like the seventies, maybe in the sixties,

11:13

and people were thinking about doing that back

11:15

then obviously, well and also

11:18

wonder and boy, we're gonna be all over the place

11:20

here, but also wonder about what constitutes

11:22

as far as the lawsuit goes, a

11:25

negative correlation, Like what

11:28

if someone made a movie about the

11:30

Columbine massacre and some

11:32

kid watched that and then later on

11:35

did his own thing, like if

11:38

something, you know, even if that movie decries

11:40

it and shows the repercussions,

11:43

which is one of the big points that

11:45

a lot of parents make, because these video games don't

11:48

show the repercussions of these actions.

11:50

It's all just fantasy. So like, where

11:52

do you draw the line there as far as the lawsuit goes?

11:55

Well, that's also a really good question, like where do you draw

11:57

the line as far as legislation goes, Because

12:00

what we're talking about here basically is say,

12:03

ultimately, the idea that if video

12:05

games cause violence in

12:08

just some people banning them

12:10

all together. It's the same thing like we did with booze

12:12

and prohibitions. There are some alcoholics

12:15

who couldn't help themselves to the rest of us who weren't

12:17

alcoholics could just give it up, and

12:19

let's just do that, right, But are you gonna ban movies

12:22

and TV and comic books and everywhere

12:25

else that has any kind of violence

12:28

portrayed. Art think, So I

12:30

don't think that's ever going to be able to happen, And

12:32

no, I don't. I think ultimately, if

12:35

you follow that argument to its logical

12:37

conclusion, now you come to where you and I

12:39

are sitting, which is, no, there's some

12:41

crazy people out there and some are

12:43

kids. All right, So

12:45

should we talk about a little bit of the studies

12:48

in the science behind it. Yeah, So like

12:51

on the in the camp where they

12:53

where they think that yes, violent video games

12:55

cause violence. There problem,

12:57

Their most persuasive argument is that, yes,

13:01

TV has been linked to aggressive

13:04

behavior in kids. Right, TV violence

13:06

has been through other studies. They've been

13:08

doing this for years and years and years. Video games are relatively

13:11

new, but um by

13:13

extension, video games

13:15

should be even more prone

13:18

degenerating violence in the player

13:21

because playing video

13:23

games is more immersive than watching

13:25

television. You're interacting, right.

13:29

Also though they're based on

13:31

the reward system of learning, right

13:34

conditioning exactly, So if I

13:37

if I shoot you and behind you is

13:39

like this magic donut, and I get

13:41

like, I get another life once I grab

13:43

the magic donut, right, I'm gonna shoot

13:45

you, and I'm gonna learn the next time that

13:47

I need to shoot you again to get that magic

13:49

donut. Last time I got the reward. That's

13:52

a pretty broad basic example,

13:54

but the the whole point of video games

13:57

is based on, like you said, classical conditioning.

13:59

They should have a podcaster game where

14:02

it's like us and Mark Marrin and Ira

14:04

Glass and Jesse Thorne and we're all like

14:07

out there trying to kill each other, all

14:09

right. I think that would do us all a little good.

14:12

Judge Judge John Hodgman like presides over

14:14

the whole thing. I

14:17

don't know though, Adam Carola going

14:19

down, Yeah, who would you take

14:21

on first? Probably

14:24

um you?

14:28

It would be like um Golden

14:31

Eye and just get trapped in the

14:33

corner and just keep shooting me and waiting for me

14:35

to come back. And one of those things where we're

14:37

supposed to be teammates and like, you know, you can kill

14:39

your own guy sometimes and what call

14:41

of duty? Right? Um? I think a

14:43

lot of those games where you can partner up, you can still

14:46

shoot your partners. You used to not be the case.

14:48

Oh it would just like fire by you or something. Yeh.

14:50

You just sit there and like kind of move a little

14:52

bit, but like nothing happened to you, It didn't

14:55

have any effect on your life. Oh good

14:57

stuff. So those are two big ones

14:59

there. Immersive and they use classical

15:01

conditioning. What else? Why else would a video game

15:04

cause violence more be

15:06

more likely to cause violence than just play on TV.

15:09

Well, they did one study where they actually hook kids

15:11

up to uh it didn't

15:14

actually say what they just said they scanned the brain.

15:16

So I'm guessing an m R. I UM

15:18

in two thousand six at Indiana University

15:21

and they UM have them play

15:23

two games, A Need for Speed Underground

15:25

and Medal of Honor colon frontline

15:29

One is non violent Need for Speed I guess,

15:31

and Medal of Honor is violent. First

15:33

person shooters were talking about if

15:35

you don't know what that is, carl

15:38

out from under a rock, But it's when you

15:40

are. It's the point of view of the

15:42

person walking around shooting people. Is you?

15:47

Um And the brain scans say showed

15:50

that the kids who played the violent game showed

15:52

increased activity in the amygdala,

15:54

which stimulates emotion, decreased

15:57

activity in the prefrontal cortext

15:59

or lobe regulates

16:01

inhibition and self control. Right, you realize

16:04

what you just described, right, zombie

16:06

zombie. I think you're gonna say that.

16:09

But my question is is, like, wouldn't it be more cause

16:11

of concern if there was like zero emotion

16:14

going on. If these kids are playing these violent

16:16

games and make it like shut down, that

16:18

would freak me out. It's a really good point because

16:21

the whole idea behind video games is to

16:23

trick the brain into thinking that it's

16:25

actually experiencing the game play.

16:27

Right. I get like I don't play much anymore,

16:29

but when I play Call of Duty, I would way

16:32

get into it and like my heart would increase,

16:34

and like if someone snuck up behind me and it

16:36

was like, you know, it puts you there. But that's

16:39

to me, like the fun of those games. Well, yeah,

16:41

it's the point of them. Right, So your fighter fight

16:44

or flight response is aroused, Um,

16:47

your heart rates up, like you said, you're perspiring,

16:49

you're jumpie, you know, But how

16:52

does that translate to video games?

16:54

And I guess an even bigger question is how

16:56

long does that state of arousal last? Like

16:59

if it did trans violent, Really,

17:01

the only person who's in trouble is

17:03

you know, your big brother or your best

17:05

friend who you're playing next to, who

17:08

just killed you and you lean over and you punch them like, yeah,

17:10

I've done that before. Well that happens. Actually,

17:12

I saw a bunch of cases where and

17:15

it wasn't just violent video games. It was like people

17:17

playing John Madden. Uh

17:20

would like one guy Wisconsin,

17:22

I think hit his buddy with a lead pipe, and

17:24

then you know this one guy in England attacked

17:27

a kid who killed him and call of duty. But they're

17:29

like, these people are crazy and competitive

17:31

and they might do the same thing playing monopoly.

17:34

So maybe it's not violent. It's competitive

17:38

video games make you violent.

17:41

Maybe that's what we should be looking at. Mak

17:43

So, right, let's see what else, Chuck,

17:46

Oh, I've got one for you. These

17:48

studies are just so awesome. Um

17:51

So, especially after call him, I

17:53

get the impression that there was like just a rash

17:56

of studies like this. And

17:59

then now the end is to go back and do meta

18:01

analysis of these studies.

18:03

But um one study found

18:06

that it took kids and

18:08

scored them um

18:10

with like basically inherent

18:12

hostility, right, And

18:16

what it found was that kids with the lowest

18:18

hostility score they were just the nicest

18:20

little kids. When they played

18:23

violent video games, they were ten

18:25

times more likely to get in a physical

18:27

fight than the kids

18:30

with the lowest hostility scores who didn't play

18:32

violent video games. So it was like they were thirty

18:34

eight percent third they

18:36

were, they had a thirty eight percent likelihood

18:38

he getting a fight compared to like four so almost ten

18:41

times right, and then even crazier

18:43

according to the study, Um, there

18:45

the kids with the lowest hostility score

18:48

who played violent video games were

18:50

more likely to get in a fight than the kids with the

18:52

highest hostility scores who didn't

18:54

play violent video games at least, so

18:56

it would make nice kids bad and

18:59

bad kids who didn't played it would just they

19:01

would maintain that level or whatever. The

19:04

nice kids who played them were worse than the

19:06

bad kids, worse than the worst

19:08

bad kids. Interesting, Yeah, so,

19:10

like studies like these are coming out and it's making

19:13

it like more and more clear, Like yes,

19:15

all right, um, video games

19:17

do cause violence, but there's a lot

19:20

of ground left to cover before

19:22

that link can be made, if

19:24

it's ever made, And

19:27

there's a lot of people trying to put the reins on this, especially

19:29

once we are saying, well, you're

19:31

you're looking, you're barking up the wrong tree,

19:33

Like maybe, so maybe you're even right. But

19:36

this isn't it. This isn't the one thing

19:38

that's the problem.

19:40

So what are some of the criticisms of this

19:43

science, I guess explaining or

19:46

showing a link between the two. Uh.

19:48

Well, one is that it's a lot of anecdotal

19:50

stories. Um

19:53

this uh the same guy Cumberbatch

19:55

says, um

19:57

the strong link between video games violence

19:59

and real world violence, and the conclusion that

20:02

it leads to social social isolation,

20:05

poor interpersonal skills are drawn

20:07

from bad and or irrelevant research,

20:10

muddle headed thinking, and unfounded simplistic

20:12

news reports. So that, for

20:15

instance, in the Malvo

20:18

DC sniper case, Lee Malvo, remember

20:20

that his attorney actually

20:22

argued that he trained quote

20:25

unquote himself to

20:27

kill by playing Halo on Xbox.

20:30

Uh. He was even quoted as saying he's

20:33

trained and desensitized with video games

20:35

to shoot human forms over and over.

20:38

In actuality, Lee Malvo trained

20:42

by shooting paper plates

20:44

with human faces drawn on them with real

20:46

guns. Bye, what's his face?

20:49

Who's the guy? I can't remember his name? But

20:51

yeah, yeah,

20:53

And in Halo, you shoot this

20:56

weird looking space

20:58

gun at like giant bug. So

21:01

this was even brought up in a court of law that like Halo,

21:04

led him to be a DC sniper, So

21:06

it's definitely a lot of sensationalism going on.

21:09

Um. And another thing they point out is that, ah,

21:14

video game popularity and youth violence

21:16

has been going in the opposite direction statistically.

21:19

Since um it reached a peak,

21:22

violent juvenile crime reached a peak in has

21:25

been in decline ever since. Between

21:28

ninety four and two thousand one, arrest for murder,

21:31

forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault

21:33

fell fort and

21:35

had the lowest juvenile arrest rate for violent

21:37

crimes since the early eighties. So

21:41

ah, you know, that

21:43

seems to fly in the face of the research at least.

21:46

And the reason also people keep picking

21:48

on kids is not just because there's school shooters,

21:50

but the one of one of the assumptions

21:52

that people's trying

21:54

to prove that yes, um, violent

21:57

video games caused violence is that if

21:59

you are a child, you still have a developing brain,

22:02

so you're gonna be more susceptible

22:04

of that kind of classical conditioning

22:07

that a violent video game provides. The

22:09

thing is is like, as

22:11

of I think two thousand and eleven, a survey

22:15

of kids played video games, the

22:17

average is about nine hours a week and

22:20

then a great many of those video

22:23

games are violent. So

22:25

the numbers like that, it

22:27

makes you wonder why there aren't more school shooters.

22:30

Why, to make this point in this book, not a lot more

22:32

common. Yeah, why isn't the world like millions

22:35

of people play these games. Why isn't it just violent,

22:38

chaotic world out there? All

22:40

this? I might say this so again though,

22:42

we should, we should kind of bring it back a little bit,

22:44

like it's the school shooters are just like the most

22:47

sensational um

22:49

thing to point to. They're also worried

22:51

that like kids are like pump punching

22:54

each other more or you know,

22:56

um, knifeing each other more. And

22:58

the idea behind that is there's

23:01

this thing called script theory, where

23:03

um we it's

23:06

it's an extension of this thing called affect

23:08

theory. Right, We're basically like something happens

23:11

to us, we have uh, an emotional

23:13

reaction to something, and it triggers a

23:15

response, a prescribed response, and

23:18

it's it's fairly specific to the human

23:20

being, but it's also kind of predictable

23:23

well over time. Because remember, the brain

23:25

is very lazy and likes to chunk things and do things

23:27

as efficiently as possible. The same thing

23:29

happens, Um, whenever

23:31

we we come across the

23:34

same emotional stimulus, right where

23:37

we build a script. Okay,

23:40

so if somebody comes up

23:42

to us and we have been trained

23:44

to or we've produced a script through

23:46

violent video games where if

23:49

somebody's coming at us, we have to shoot it. The

23:51

idea behind script, they very crudely

23:53

put is that, um,

23:55

we would use violence, it

23:57

would trigger a violent reaction because

24:00

we are script for dealing

24:03

with this has been built and compiled

24:05

through violence through violent

24:07

video games. Interesting, it is

24:09

interesting. Um, it's also totally

24:12

unproven. It's the problem. So, like number

24:15

one, there's a lot of there's

24:17

a there's despite all the studies,

24:19

there's not a lot of scientific

24:22

data out there that shows yes,

24:25

violent video games cause violence. Well, they'll study

24:27

like thirty kids. That's a big problem.

24:29

Another one is like, how do you quantify

24:32

violence and video games? How

24:34

do you say when you're giving

24:36

people, when you're testing pharmaceuticals, you can

24:39

get it down to the milligram or microgram

24:41

or whatever. How do you do that with exposure

24:43

to violence in a video game? Well, yeah, because

24:45

there's all kinds of levels of violence

24:47

from Mario whacking animals

24:50

on the head with mallets. H

24:53

And that's That's one of the things that this book points

24:55

out is that they're kind of getting it

24:57

wrong with the ratings. The E. S r B is

25:00

who rates video games ranging

25:02

from uh early

25:05

childhood rating, which is the

25:07

sweetest of all ratings, all the way

25:10

to mature and adults only.

25:12

UM And, like I

25:14

said, one of the problems is that people complain that there are

25:16

no repercussions in video games, but

25:19

they say they got it backwards and that um.

25:23

In the in the lighter rated games,

25:25

like the dead bodies just disappear instead

25:28

of showing like this is a dead body, or

25:31

the blood is like super

25:33

animated and not realistic. Um.

25:37

And it's basically saying no, these lighter rated

25:39

games aren't showing negative consequences.

25:42

Games that do show that are more likely to be rated

25:44

M or A, which

25:47

is adults only, which is interesting

25:49

I thought so and also um.

25:51

Another point is that the average

25:53

gamer these days apparently is thirty so

25:57

and listen as Mom's space mo, yeah he's

26:00

He's also probably not out there committing acts

26:02

of violence either, right.

26:06

Uh. You know, I will say when

26:08

I played like a lot of UM,

26:10

call of duty or what was the driving

26:13

one again? Grand

26:15

Theft Auto that like it

26:17

was the same one I played Tetris. I had like Tetris dreams

26:20

like it. It gets into your dreams and it like gets into

26:22

your crawl. And when I'm driving around,

26:25

you have those thoughts of like, you know, bump

26:27

the sky off the road and make

26:29

this move like it's in your head,

26:31

but you don't do it. You know, like

26:33

people have thoughts all the time, but

26:36

that you know, Cleibold

26:38

and Harris were suicidal,

26:41

depressed sociopaths. You

26:44

know, they weren't like just great kids who played

26:46

college or whatever game they accused

26:48

them of playing and just decided to shoot

26:50

up their school. But

26:53

that's not to say it doesn't have some impact,

26:55

you know. That's why it's such a tough issue. Yeah,

26:58

it's definitely not there's not one. I don't think

27:00

there's one side that's ever gonna be proven, right,

27:02

I think it's going to be like, yes, Okay, this does

27:04

have this effect that does have this impact

27:06

on some people more than others, because

27:10

it just just from the

27:12

small amount of games that I've played, Like

27:14

I know what it's like, Yeah, you get

27:17

around, you get like excited

27:19

fight or flight, and then you you start

27:22

thinking about ways to play it better when

27:24

you're not playing it. So yeah,

27:26

it definitely does not It doesn't

27:29

have just an immediate effect. It definitely extends

27:31

to the rest of your life. But there is that line,

27:34

and that's what we need to explore, in my opinion,

27:36

is where that line is and

27:38

how does that differ from people, from

27:41

some people to another, and how do you take people who have the

27:43

line a lot closer than

27:45

it should be an extended further out. You,

27:48

my friend, have hit on it. I think

27:49

that's basically the summary of this

27:52

book is we're asking the

27:54

wrong questions and looking

27:56

for the wrong uh causes.

27:59

Basically, um,

28:02

I'm gonna quote again. Instead of looking for a simple

28:04

direct relationship, um, in

28:06

all children, we should be asking ourselves,

28:08

how might we identify those children who

28:10

are the greatest risk for being influenced

28:13

by everything from movies

28:15

to the freaking news

28:17

that they watch on TV every night and then

28:19

put him in jail prematurely? I just said, freaking

28:22

man, can we do that? Now? I'm pretty

28:24

hopped up? Uh So, yeah, I think

28:26

you hit on it. Like you, these

28:28

games aren't going away. Violent movies aren't

28:31

going away the History

28:33

Channel, which shows more violence

28:35

than anything on television in going away. Um,

28:38

none of these things are going anywhere, So

28:41

maybe it's up to the parents to get involved

28:43

a little more. Yeah, but like you

28:45

have to stop watching TV to do something like

28:47

that. Ah,

28:50

you got anything else right now? I don't think so.

28:53

Well, it's a tough issue. I get it, you know it

28:55

is. This is definitely not when we're just gonna explain

28:58

everything. But I feel like we explained both. It's

29:00

right, I think so that the people

29:02

on the pro side saying hey, here's

29:04

all the science of people on the conside saying

29:06

hey, you gotta do a little better. Right,

29:10

Yeah, we'll see where we are in we'll

29:12

come back here. Okay. If you

29:14

want to learn more about this, you can

29:16

type violent video games in the search

29:19

bart how stuff works dot com. It will bring up

29:21

this really good article. And

29:23

uh, I said search bar, which means it's time

29:25

through the listener. Mate, Josh

29:30

gonna call this gas chromatography

29:32

mass spectrometer, explained,

29:35

of course, remember I brought that up in the body other

29:37

thing, and I didn't have time to look it up. Luckily

29:40

we have smart listeners. Um, guys have just heard

29:42

the Body Oder podcast. Nicely done as

29:44

always. Um. In the show, you mentioned

29:47

that you didn't have time to look up gas chromatography

29:50

mass spectrometer. Is

29:52

there not an abbreviation for that? We call

29:54

it gc M s

29:57

Um, this is exactly the type of situation I'd

29:59

be glad to help. And he's basically

30:01

offering his services in the future too. It's

30:03

like wherever, Like, uh, I don't time, he said,

30:06

just pick up the phone. I'll explain it to

30:08

you. So who

30:11

He's an associate professor of physics at Thomas

30:13

Moore College in Kentucky. That's awesome,

30:16

um, And he says in a single sentence,

30:19

a gas chromatography mass but trometer

30:21

is essentially a machine for identifying

30:24

the composition of molecules and a sample,

30:26

which you clearly presume. In a brief

30:28

essence, he says this. It has two parts,

30:31

the gas chromatograph, which

30:33

essentially breaks a sample into its component molecules

30:37

and admits them on a delay based

30:39

on their chemical properties, and then the

30:41

mass spectrometer, which essentially

30:43

finds the mass of the molecule.

30:46

The combination of these processes

30:48

identifies some molecular makeup.

30:51

The amount of each type of molecule of

30:53

the sample. And he said this only

30:55

and then he had a longer version to which I

30:58

read, but I'm not free now, and

31:00

he said. This took me about ten or fifteen minutes to type out.

31:02

Guys, I hope it encourages you to ask if

31:04

you need a short overview of

31:06

some minor detail. My goal in this offer

31:09

is to maximize a number of times kids

31:11

are exposed to the idea that the

31:13

world around me is understandable. And

31:16

he would be happy to donate his time to help us

31:18

out in the future. This guy would make a great

31:20

mascot, It's right. That is Joe

31:23

Christensen of Thomas Moore College.

31:26

The fighting jeez, I

31:28

don't know if they have it sounds like

31:30

a smart school. I don't know if they have sports. Thomas

31:33

More, He wasn't the wong with the social contract

31:36

prest View Hills, Kentucky. Yeah, that's

31:39

not where the social contract came from, but it's

31:41

upheld there every day. That's right, Thank

31:44

you very much, Professor Christensen.

31:47

Let's say sure, thanks, professor

31:49

Um and I think we will take you up

31:51

on your offer at some point. Um.

31:54

Let's see, uh, if you

31:57

ever want to explain something to us. We're always

32:00

in the market for that kind of thing. Specifically,

32:03

I would love it if somebody can explain to me

32:05

what's so great about prog rock because

32:07

I don't get it. Um. You can

32:10

tweet to us at s y s K

32:12

podcast, You can go

32:14

on to Facebook with its stupid timeline

32:17

at Facebook dot com slash stuff you

32:19

Should Know, and you can email

32:21

us at Stuff Podcast

32:24

at Discovery dot com

32:31

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