0:01

Welcome to you stuff you should know Frondhouse

0:04

storks dot com.

0:10

Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

0:13

Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,

0:16

he and Jerry's over there. Jerry,

0:19

for the first time, I just

0:21

saw a meme that's been out for a couple

0:23

of years. Yeah, that's that happened. That's

0:25

like when you rolled me like two years after it

0:28

was popular. You're like, isn't it the best?

0:30

I was lying in Wait, yeah, I thought that happened.

0:32

So and there's nothing more obnoxious than sending

0:35

someone something and be like fill it two years ago.

0:38

I'm so so sorry. I tried to show you something

0:40

funny, right, you know. But yeah,

0:43

Jerry just saw the do

0:45

we even say the mumble mouth reporter?

0:48

Maybe? Yeah, the lady who supposedly

0:51

had a migraine but appeared to have had a stroke

0:54

reporting from the Grammys in Los Angeles a couple of

0:56

years ago. Yeah. I still don't know whether it's okay to laugh

0:58

at that, because I don't know really what happened to her. Well,

1:00

we didn't laugh. We very solemnly showed Jerry.

1:03

Yeah, and she laughed terrible.

1:07

Jerry. Um,

1:10

I've got one for you. I've got a bit of

1:12

an intro. It's not much, so get

1:14

your hopes up. Um. Have you ever

1:16

heard of the Population Reference Bureau? No,

1:20

you have, because I've mentioned it before.

1:23

I've mentioned this this article before.

1:25

It's on PRB dot org. It's called

1:28

how Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?

1:31

And I don't know what we've mentioned and it maybe the Population

1:33

Episode or something. But it's a

1:36

really cool little article by this demographer

1:38

named Carl hobb h au b and

1:40

he Um. There's even a video of him explaining

1:43

it if you couldn't get what he was going with. But hobb

1:46

um he reckons that

1:48

modern humans, people who are virtually

1:51

indistinguishable from you or

1:53

me, aside from the fact that they're not wearing

1:55

like any clothes really um

1:58

showed up about fifty two

2:01

thousand years ago. So hobb puts

2:03

the population of humanity at

2:06

two uh in fifty

2:08

thousand BC. Okay,

2:11

so from that point to two thousand eleven,

2:13

he extrapolates, does the math, does

2:15

this little demography thing, and

2:17

hobb comes up with the number that one

2:20

hundred and seven billion, six

2:22

hundred and two million, seven hundred

2:24

and seven thousand, seven hundred

2:26

ninety one people have

2:29

ever lived between fifty thousand

2:31

BC and two thousand eleven.

2:34

See, that's pretty neat, it is. That's

2:36

a lot of people. He says. That means about

2:38

six point five of

2:41

that are alive right now, or

2:43

we're in two thousand eleven, right, so we're

2:46

dying off. That's the point.

2:48

All one hundred and seven billion, six hundred

2:51

two million, seven hundred seven thousand, seven

2:53

hundred ninety one of those people had

2:55

one thing in common, one thing

2:58

aside from being humans,

3:00

no, not even not even

3:03

yeah, yeah, they didn't have tax and in fifty

3:06

BC they had running from sabretooth

3:08

tigers and death. It

3:11

was death. That's the one thing. All

3:14

one hundred and seven billions, six d two

3:16

millions, seven hundred seven thousand, seven hundred

3:18

ninety one of those people had in common. You

3:20

know, when I was thinking of your intro driving

3:22

here today, I thought that'd be funny if Josh was like, how

3:26

long people been dying Chuck, And you

3:28

know what, this wasn't that far off? Was

3:30

like, he wouldn't do that. You're

3:33

like, every way too boring. That's

3:35

a good number. I like that. Hundred seven billion, six

3:39

hundred two million,

3:42

seven hundred one thousand seven seven.

3:46

Yeah. Yeah, and that includes you

3:48

and me. Pal. You know what that means. You're

3:50

gonna die. I'm gonna die,

3:53

Jerry's gonna die at least two or three times.

3:57

We're all gonna die. Yeah. This is our

3:59

dying podcast, and

4:01

we have covered just about

4:04

every aspect of dying. Can you die

4:06

from a broken heart? How rigor mortis

4:08

works? What's the worst way to die?

4:10

Um? Is there a best

4:12

way to die? Did we do that?

4:14

That was kind of in the is there was? Yeah?

4:18

Um, we've covered everything

4:20

from autopsies, peak oil, what

4:22

can be done with the dead body? Ninja's

4:25

Yeah, well Ninja at least you

4:27

should know better than that. Yeah. We really have danced

4:30

around everything except just how

4:32

dying works. And this is gonna be a

4:34

sad podcast in many ways and gruesome

4:37

in some ways. Yeah, because we're gonna

4:39

touch on some of the stuff we hit on in like rigor mortis

4:41

and autopsies and the actual dying

4:43

process. Right, But I mean,

4:46

so brace yourself. And I've mentioned this

4:48

guy scores of

4:50

times at least, but as the

4:53

it's a Charles Man. You're thinking of the

4:56

great psychologist Ernest

4:58

Becker, Oh yeah, shout out to our pal

5:01

Joe Randazzo, who's like in the Becker

5:03

Now, Ernest, there's Ernest, Ernest,

5:05

you're thinking of Max Ernest. Okay.

5:08

Ernest becker Um wrote

5:11

the Denial of Death, seminal

5:13

work that basically says, we're all

5:15

just doing everything we came to think about

5:17

our own demise, and

5:20

there is some sort of health, whether

5:22

it's spiritual, emotional, there's some sort

5:24

of health or well being I think from

5:27

facing the fact that you're going to die

5:30

and talking about it. Yeah, so

5:33

let's talk about death, baby, Let's

5:35

talk about you and me. Let's do it.

5:37

Okay. So Molly Edmonds

5:40

Um, who used to be on Sminty

5:43

Step Mom never told you we call it sminty Um

5:46

wrote this one, and I think it is

5:48

interesting. And I usually don't like it when articles say,

5:50

like the definition of blah blah blah,

5:52

but it's kind of interesting that in the first

5:54

encyclopedia it was just the

5:57

separation of the soul from the body, and

5:59

now it's you know, thirty times that long

6:01

in the encyclopedia, right, And that's just sort

6:03

of indicative of how we used to think

6:05

of it and how I

6:08

don't know if it's ironic or not, but how medical science

6:10

has complicated that over the years. Yeah, well

6:12

it's definitely ironic because I mean, we

6:15

used to be confident that we understood death.

6:17

It's like that person isn't moving anymore.

6:19

If you ask him what he wants to eat, he's

6:21

not going to respond. If you choose

6:23

something for him to eat, like a block of cheese, it's

6:26

not going to be swallowed like that's

6:28

death. And since there was

6:30

perhaps a lot more religiousness associated

6:34

with death and dying than there is today,

6:37

um, that kind of underscored

6:40

the belief and death. It's the soul departing

6:42

from the body, and what

6:44

what more do you want to know, egghead, it's death.

6:46

Well yeah, and uh, way back, you know, a few

6:49

d years ago, you'd call it a priest and they

6:51

they checked the body, see if it's breathing, and

6:54

say, yep, they're dead, and

6:57

that was pretty much it. The doctor wasn't even involved

6:59

at that point. There may not have even been such

7:01

a thing as doctors, and if there were, they were wearing

7:03

like masks that made them look like crows to protect

7:05

them from the plague. So they weren't any better it's

7:08

ascertaining death than a

7:10

priest. Was true. When doctors

7:12

did come along and they invented things

7:14

like the stethoscope, they

7:16

could actually check and see if there was a heartbeat.

7:19

Before that, there was bal force test, which

7:21

I couldn't find out a lot about this other than you

7:24

stick needles into the heart with

7:26

little flags on it and see if the flags move. I

7:29

think that's pretty straightforward. Really

7:31

yeah, I think that's about it. I mean, that's

7:33

the test by that, And there were other

7:36

tests that like a priest who may have

7:38

come to say whether you were dead or not, would

7:40

use like placing a feather above

7:43

the mouth or around the mouth or knows to see if he moves.

7:45

Um, the old mirror mirror trick that's

7:48

still you know, useful, it

7:51

is, but only if the mouth

7:53

is still moist. If it's a dried mouth, it's

7:55

probably not gonna fog up a mirror. Well,

7:58

if it's not breathing, it's not gonna fall right

8:00

exactly. Um.

8:03

So I said that medical

8:06

science has complicated it, and that's exactly

8:08

what's happened over the years, because as

8:11

we progressed with medicine, we

8:13

discovered a lot of ways

8:16

to actually reverse death, like bring people

8:18

back from the dead, whether it's something

8:20

as easy as CPR or as

8:22

complicated as you know, machines

8:24

to help you breathe and feed you. Right,

8:26

And not only that, we've entered this really

8:29

awkward period um

8:31

in human medical history

8:34

where the machines

8:36

that can tell us whether someone is alive

8:38

or not are more advanced than our

8:40

machines that can bring

8:43

a person back from death. Yeah,

8:46

so we have ways to sustain the body,

8:49

but not necessarily the the

8:52

person, depending on your definition

8:54

of death, like the faintest trace of

8:56

a brain wave maybe

8:59

right. Yeah, So we went from holding a feather under

9:01

somebody's mouth or who knows

9:03

to see if they were alive, to using the

9:06

m r I s to see whether there's electrical

9:08

activity. And we're finding that all of

9:10

these old signs, these old outward

9:13

signs of death don't necessarily

9:15

mean that the person is dead. And

9:17

even if the person is dead, we have technology,

9:20

like you were saying, to resuscitate them.

9:22

The question is, if we resuscitate

9:24

them and they're still not talking, they

9:26

still don't tell you what they want to eat,

9:30

are they alive? Well? Yeah, and we

9:32

in this hasn't been that long you know, I mean

9:34

in the fifty two thousand years or whatever the

9:37

people have been dying. It's only been the past you

9:39

know, sixty something that

9:41

we've had to come up with terms like persistent

9:45

vegetative state and irreversible coma

9:48

because of those machines that can resuscitate

9:50

or sustain a body. And

9:53

that was when the French neurologists

9:56

describe the coma deposs

9:58

which is a state beyond coma basically,

10:01

uh, brain death, although

10:04

that didn't come along until technically

10:06

until nineteen when Harvard

10:08

Medical School did uh, basically

10:11

defined it for the first time. Yeah,

10:13

and although they didn't even call it brain death at the time, what

10:16

they call it just irreversible

10:18

comma like you're not coming back. Brain

10:20

death was kind of tagged on later. Um. So

10:23

yeah, so comma to pass

10:25

um, vegetive, persistent vegetative

10:27

state, brain death. Um,

10:30

all these things would indicate again that

10:32

you're dead. The problem is is we

10:34

have these machines that can keep your body warm,

10:37

you can keep your chest rising and falling, can

10:39

keep your body going indefinitely.

10:42

Um. But the thing is there's something

10:44

that's not there, and

10:47

does that mean you're dead. There's been a lot of talk

10:50

about, um,

10:52

exactly what constitutes death. Defining

10:55

death is a very very difficult thing to

10:57

do, especially through

10:59

the advancement of medical technology. It's kind

11:01

of changed every time you come with the Okay,

11:04

I got it, this is the definition of death.

11:06

Medical technology can provide

11:08

some picture of a state

11:10

of consciousness or life that

11:13

throws the wrench in the works, you know. Yeah,

11:15

and it's um. Actually, after

11:18

night it took one

11:20

presidential commission is

11:23

when they finally in the United States wrote

11:26

a paper called Defining Death, Medical

11:28

Legal and Ethical Issues and the Determination

11:30

of Death. That was the basis for

11:33

the Uniform Determination of Death Act,

11:36

which basically rejected the Harvard

11:38

idea that of

11:41

the higher brain, which is like, when your personality

11:43

and your memories are gone the

11:46

cortical brain, that means you're dead. And

11:48

they rejected that in favor of the

11:51

whole brain, which includes the brain stem,

11:53

which is what keeps you breathing and functioning. Um,

11:56

They're rejected in favor of that. So Harvard was

11:58

like, right, UM,

12:01

I I I don't know. I think I subscribed

12:04

to the higher brain death the

12:06

definition of death. Um,

12:08

the brain stem. I'm yeah, that's pretty significant.

12:12

Um, you can be born with just a brain stem.

12:14

We talked about Mike the headless chicken before um

12:17

he had his head cut off, which included

12:20

his brain, but his brain stem was still there and he's a chicken,

12:22

so it didn't really matter. Um.

12:25

But the that is a there's

12:27

a huge division between the two because there's

12:29

a big difference between breathing and

12:32

being able to swallow for yourself and

12:35

making a conscious decision whether

12:37

again what you want to eat right there, or

12:39

having memories or just reacting

12:42

to people aside from like you know,

12:44

physical reaction. Right. Yes,

12:47

and that's one of the one of the there's

12:49

a whole article on brain death. Maybe we'll do

12:51

that one. I thought we did that now I

12:54

think we did it in the organ donation

12:56

Procurement episode. We talked about brain death

12:59

and testing for and death like they shoot ice cold

13:01

water in your ear canal. Definitely remember covering

13:03

at some point. Yeah, I think it

13:05

was in the organ donation moment or maybe living wells.

13:08

Obviously we might have touched on it there.

13:11

We did. We did wills, but we hit on living wills.

13:14

But you know, you mentioned organs. I don't think we said

13:16

that. That was a big kind

13:18

of a quandary in the nineteen sixties. Um,

13:21

in the late I'm sorry, mid nineteen fifties,

13:23

and then really in the nineteen sixties is when

13:25

we went organ transplant crazy.

13:28

Um actually kind of not just the United

13:30

States, all over the world. Doctors

13:33

said, hey, we can actually give

13:35

people a shot at life because we can now transplant

13:38

kidneys and lungs and hearts.

13:41

The problem was, and this is sort

13:44

of one of the sad things that Molly points out, is that the

13:47

definition of death kind

13:49

of came about was hurried along, maybe

13:51

because we needed organs from

13:53

these bodies that were still technically

13:56

alive, which is very ghoulish proposition.

13:58

I mean, it makes sense from a very utilitarian

14:00

standpoint. It's like, this guy doesn't

14:02

even know he's laying there, and he's

14:04

got a great kidney that could go to his sister,

14:07

who knows that she needs a kidney.

14:09

She's gonna die, and she's got kids that she wants

14:11

to hang out with, and like, can put this kidney to good

14:14

youth. So let's let's figure

14:16

this out. But um, as Molly

14:18

says, like most developed countries have signed

14:20

on to the brain stem where it's like you're

14:23

brain can no longer keep

14:27

you alive like on your own. You

14:29

can't swallow, you can't take a breath

14:31

for yourself, so you're dead. Um.

14:34

The problem is that's that's just

14:37

that's different. That's a much much's

14:39

much more. It's a narrower definition

14:42

of death, I guess. And I think

14:44

that that probably rules out a lot of people who might

14:46

otherwise be used to harvest

14:48

organs harvest I

14:51

know. Um,

14:53

all right, so let's talk about death itself. It's

14:55

funny that you well, it's not funny, but out

14:58

of all the different ways people can die, I

15:01

thought it seems simplified to break it down into

15:03

three ways, but that's really kind of the three ways.

15:05

Yeah. I think we talked about that in autopsies two

15:07

right. Yeah, it can be an accident obviously,

15:10

Um, that's called the death.

15:13

Yeah, the violent death, which is also

15:16

an opsie. I guess, well, not an it's

15:19

tragic homicide or suicide.

15:22

So check. Let's talk about what it's like to die

15:24

from different types of death. You dug

15:26

this up, yeah,

15:29

because I've really wanted to know, like,

15:31

what is it like to drown or

15:33

to be burned alive? Yeah? And and people

15:36

have survived some of these

15:38

things and come back to tell the tale. That's obviously

15:40

the only way we're going to find this stuff out or

15:42

from lucky people. Um, drowning,

15:45

I've always heard drowning is a good way to go because it's not

15:47

so painful. Yeah, and that like the brain

15:49

supposedly releases endorphins at the end.

15:52

Yeah, same with freezing, I've heard

15:54

too. Maybe true. Um, although

15:57

drowning victims have reported uh,

16:00

aside from the panic, a tearing and

16:02

burning sensation when your water starts

16:04

filling with lungs and quickly,

16:07

hopefully really quickly after that is

16:10

the feeling of calmness that overcomes

16:12

in tranquility. Yeah. Um, a

16:14

heart attack. You've got the squeezing

16:16

chests, pain in your chest or your left

16:19

arm, Yeah, like a weight on your chest right.

16:21

Um. What I didn't know is that because

16:24

of the heart not delivering oxygen

16:26

to the brain any longer, you can lose consciousness.

16:29

Um, within like ten seconds. Um,

16:32

I didn't realize that. I think, like it was, there's

16:35

a lot more to it. Well, it depends.

16:37

You know, everyone has their own signature heart

16:39

attack as well. Um,

16:42

if you bleed out, I imagine

16:44

this is not one of the best ways to go.

16:47

Um,

16:49

after about a liter and a half of blood, you're gonna

16:52

be thirsty and weak and anxious.

16:54

Anything over too, you're gonna

16:56

be pretty confused and dizzy and probably lose

16:58

consciousness pretty soon. Now, and all of that would

17:01

be that would relate to how fast you're losing

17:03

blood, and it would probably be very

17:05

unpleasant depending on how you're losing

17:07

blood. Like why because you would

17:09

imagine that if you're stabbed in the

17:11

gut or something like that. Yeah, you got

17:13

the attendant pain in addition to this

17:15

dying from loss of blood or like man reservoir

17:18

dogs. Yeah, it's like one

17:21

of the the most hardcore ways to open a movie or

17:23

not open. But they cut right to that scene after the diner

17:26

scene, right after the walk Yeah. Um.

17:29

Electrocution. Um, if

17:31

you're in your house and you get electrocuted, could

17:34

stop your heart right then and there. And

17:37

uh, if you're in an electric chair, you

17:39

may have actually heated

17:42

your brain up to the point where you die

17:44

or suffocated to death. Right. But the

17:47

there's indications that being electrocuted

17:49

with enough voltage that

17:52

instantly you lose consciousness.

17:55

That's the idea probably with the

17:58

quote un quote humane, I'm sorry quote

18:00

humane end quote. I'm

18:03

gonna stop doing that. I'm going back to quote unquote

18:07

what if you fall from a height. If you

18:09

fall from a height, supposedly UM time

18:11

slows, which is awful.

18:15

It's like, well, you're gonna experience

18:17

all of this. Yeah, that's uh

18:20

yeah, the idea that you that

18:22

you really can take it

18:24

all in, that's really awful. So

18:27

they've they did a study of UM

18:29

jumpers from the Golden Gate Bridge,

18:33

which is seventy five what is that

18:36

two hundred thirty it's

18:39

high enough, and they they

18:41

found evidence that a lot of them died from

18:44

exploded lungs, exploded hearts,

18:46

UM. Their organs were all

18:49

cut up from their ribs, which

18:51

would indicate death was pretty much instantaneous.

18:54

Yeah. We talked about that on something too recently,

18:56

I think, or maybe I heard it someone else talking about

18:58

it. It's pretty that way to go. What the

19:00

Golden Gate Bridge or just just falling

19:03

diving from a height. Yeah, I can't remember.

19:05

I was talking to about jumping in the water. I was like, what actually

19:07

kills you when you jump in the water from the eye, and that

19:09

was like your organs smash into each other

19:11

and explode. Yeah, I guess from any height.

19:14

Yeah, but when you when you die from that would

19:16

be from organ explosion

19:18

or whatever. Yeah, or you know the

19:20

brain obviously if you go head first.

19:24

Yeah, that's um, the long drop

19:27

back in the day would although they

19:29

still you can get hung in certain states

19:32

if you choose really yeah,

19:34

Washington state and now you can huh. Um,

19:37

you can choose that as your method. They'll build you the gallows

19:39

and uh. The idea that there is

19:41

you want your neck to snap, otherwise

19:43

he's died slower and you know, suffocate.

19:46

The problem is there's a study of thirty

19:48

or four prisoners that found four

19:50

fifths of them died partly from asphyxiation.

19:53

Really, that's the wrong way

19:56

to hang somebody. If you

19:58

if you don't snap their or they

20:00

don't lose consciousness immediately, Um,

20:03

they sit there and hang and die

20:06

of asphyxiation. That's a

20:08

bad way to go. Uh. And

20:10

speaking of bad, I think being burned to

20:12

death maybe one of the worst. And

20:15

then what we came up with on the

20:18

I think so because you feel it and

20:20

you'd think like your nerve endings, that's what I thought,

20:23

like, oh, your nerve endings are probably like stop

20:25

responding quickly. But apparently that's not

20:27

the case. No, not only is that not the case, Apparently

20:30

you're fire further

20:32

sensitizes your nerve endings, so you feel

20:34

even more pain. Yeah,

20:36

but luckily most people, I

20:39

think the vast majority of

20:41

people who die in fires actually die from

20:43

smoke inhalation before they ever

20:45

feel pain from fire. Yeah, that

20:47

are well, I don't know about before they feel pain,

20:49

but hopefully quick enough. Well,

20:52

you know, cover monoxide thinks, so

20:54

like, well, there's a lot of smoke

20:57

you are download to the ground and

20:59

that's of the carbon carbon monoxide is

21:01

so you're entailing mostly that, so it's possible

21:03

it's before, it's true. And

21:06

then the natural death, which is

21:08

uh, passing of old age or

21:10

disease. And here in this country

21:13

we have kind of whipped up a lot of the disease

21:15

over the years into into

21:17

they sniff them off. The case, right,

21:20

Well, it depends like some of the ones that like

21:22

kill undeveloped countries, like diarrheal

21:24

disease, like dying from diarrhea.

21:27

Um, you don't have that much in the US, but

21:29

we have chronic disease like obesity,

21:32

and diabetes and UM cardiopulmonary

21:35

disease. Um, we have that downpat.

21:38

I've got the top five here. Actually, I think they're

21:40

all in there, aren't they. Um, heart is

21:42

number one, cancer is number two. UM,

21:45

lower respiratory is number three. Strokers

21:47

for an accidents are five. And

21:50

it's a huge drop. Cancer and

21:53

heart are close to six hundred thousand, and

21:55

then number three at lower respiratories only

21:57

a hundred and thirty eight thousand. So that

22:00

shows you what cancer and heart disease are doing

22:02

in the United States at least. And the upshot of all

22:04

this is that most of us are not going

22:07

to die suddenly. Um,

22:09

either by accident or by violent

22:11

death. Yeah. Dying of old age didn't used to be

22:13

a thing. No, it was like like a

22:15

lot of ways to die, but that was one of them. You ticked

22:18

off some traveling night, or there's

22:21

a dispute over grazing rights.

22:24

Ye. Plague, Yeah,

22:26

you walked into a bear cave. Yeah.

22:28

The plagues another but um, yeah, old

22:31

ages. It's kind of a new thing, but

22:33

it's one of the most

22:35

um prevalent forms

22:37

of death in developed

22:40

countries. It actually has its own name,

22:42

frailty, Yeah, which is great. It's sad,

22:44

but it's great that now we can live out our lives

22:46

and and we're about

22:48

to talk about it. But sometimes the body, just

22:50

like any other machine, just stops. It's

22:53

not designed to keep going indefinitely, and

22:55

ultimately the system shuts

22:58

down as its subsystem

23:00

shut down. This shutting down every

23:02

second right right now, are

23:05

shutting down. And for

23:07

that reason, because you and I are

23:09

both dying. I guess once you're born,

23:12

you start dying, or after you

23:14

stop growing, you start dying, right Is

23:17

that just the positive outlooker, But I

23:19

mean, like you're shedding cells

23:21

and like this is like the dying. We're in the

23:23

midst of the dying process. Just this natural system

23:26

is in the winding down, although it takes decades

23:28

and we still have plenty to do. Like

23:30

you said, you're dying, I'm dying. That's

23:34

why they have a more specific

23:36

definition of death, which is um

23:39

called active dying. Like you and I

23:41

are not actively dying right now. No,

23:44

no, uh. Instead, if

23:47

we are actively dying, we're in the midst

23:49

of the dying process. It has started.

23:51

The dying processes started. The descent,

23:54

if you will, has started, right, So,

23:56

um, all this kind

23:58

of happens since different types of cells die

24:01

at different speeds, that's what

24:03

it is. It's cell death. Cellular

24:05

I don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but

24:08

oxygen doesn't happen to different

24:10

parts of the body. Your cells are gonna die

24:12

exactly, um. And so

24:15

as the cells die at different speeds,

24:17

different systems are gonna shut down. But just

24:19

from watching frail people

24:22

die of old age, UM,

24:24

they kind of have like this the

24:27

the order in which it happens

24:29

kind of downpad. So

24:31

there's the UM, there's the preactive

24:34

dying phase which can take about three

24:37

weeks, starts about three weeks

24:39

before death, two or three weeks. And

24:42

then there's the active dying phase, which can take

24:44

a few days. And obviously that's not set

24:46

in stone. None of this is set in stone. But

24:48

this is all just um kind of accumulative

24:52

knowledge from observations of people

24:54

dying in like hospice and things like that.

24:56

So you get the preactive phase of dying UM.

25:00

And like I said, it starts a couple of weeks ahead

25:02

of the actual death. Because

25:04

we have this is a big deal right now, what we're talking

25:07

about, Like it's becoming

25:09

very clear, UM in

25:11

our modern age that death

25:14

is not an instant, it's not a moment,

25:16

there's a process. Yeah,

25:18

well unless it isn't an instant, but yeah,

25:20

old age dying, yes, or

25:23

like other kinds of dying. But how about non accidental

25:26

dying. We'll call it that because

25:28

that's like the instantaneous thing, and even

25:30

sometimes in a very short scale

25:32

that can follow some of these you know, Oh

25:37

yeah, I forgot it all to you, yes, nodding

25:40

my head. So the preactive phase

25:42

of dying, Chuck, what do we got? Well,

25:45

Um, you're gonna start sleep, You're gonna get

25:47

sleepy, You're not gonna have much energy, You're

25:50

gonna start sleeping more and more. Uh,

25:52

your skin might become cooler to the

25:54

touch, might turn a little bluish

25:57

gray. Yeah, cyanosis,

26:00

So that's called it's just becoming

26:02

oxygen deprived. Like apparently your body's

26:04

like, okay, don't really need to use the legs

26:07

anymore because we're bedridden, So I'm gonna start

26:09

focusing more of the circulation on

26:11

the inner organs. Yeah.

26:14

Well that probably causes the modeling too, which

26:16

is, uh, your your skin

26:18

can become sort of reddish, like splotchy

26:21

with reddish blue splotches as well. Right, you're

26:23

gonna, um, you're gonna be

26:26

a little restless. Probably, you're

26:28

gonna possibly come off as confused.

26:31

Um, You're you're not gonna be hungry. No, you're

26:33

gonna probably withdraw from

26:35

UM social activities. You're

26:38

gonna become a little a little withdrawn. UM.

26:41

You might wanna settle unfinished

26:44

business with family. You might request family

26:46

come visit you for that kind of thing, the

26:49

non physical parts. That's definitely something

26:51

you'd be interested in doing. Right, But that's

26:53

like, UM, apparently something that

26:56

that people intuitively know like

26:59

they need it. Apparently

27:01

patients know when they're dying.

27:04

I've seen that happen. And one of

27:06

the one of the signs from

27:08

UM that's mentioned in hospice care

27:10

palliative care UM is that the

27:13

patient may even state I'm dying

27:16

like I started, it's coming.

27:18

That's pretty common um.

27:21

Yeah, and that's sad

27:23

that when you realize like, all

27:25

right, this is this is it, Like I feel myself,

27:29

I'm gonna be gone soon. But that's

27:31

neat though, especially if you yeah,

27:33

if you're like, okay, I'm gonna put everything

27:36

in order then die

27:39

happy or peacefully. Yeah, that's

27:41

neat that you have that that time

27:44

to to take care of that. Yeah, if you're

27:46

fortunate enough to go that way for sure. Back

27:48

to physically, Um, you you won't be able

27:50

to heal from a wound er and

27:53

infection any longer. Yeah,

27:55

you might um lose control of

27:57

your bladder and your bowels with

28:00

the course of some time. Um,

28:03

you might be in pain, but chances are here

28:05

in the modern world they're gonna take care of you in that respect.

28:08

Right and again that's called palliative care, where

28:11

at some point it's very obvious that you're

28:13

going to die. Um, and

28:15

a lot of it can be based on what you want,

28:18

even even um without your wishes,

28:20

there's probably a point in time where

28:24

medical science says, there's nothing

28:26

we can do for you. Um, we

28:28

just want to make you comfortable, exactly, so we're gonna

28:30

give you pain meds. We're gonna like your

28:33

your care is being transferred over from

28:35

a physician to who's

28:38

you know, wants to save your life and keep you going to

28:40

hospice workers, health

28:43

care professionals who are trained to just keep you

28:45

as comfortable as possible for the

28:47

for the duration of your life. Right man,

28:49

hats off to those people, like

28:52

all health care professionals of course, but man,

28:54

hospice nurses, that's

28:56

tough stuff. You've gotta be like, you've

28:59

got to be made of of the right qualities

29:01

as a human to be able to tackle

29:03

something like that and still get up and go to work every day.

29:05

Like they're literally in the business of dying. I

29:08

mean, very valuable, valuable service

29:10

people provide. So that's the um,

29:12

that's the preactive phase. That's the I'm

29:15

getting ready to die. I got a couple of weeks

29:17

and all of my systems are starting

29:20

to wind down. In the active

29:22

phase, the systems are starting to shut

29:24

down. Um, you may

29:26

not have consciousness, and if you do, you

29:29

may Uh. If you are

29:31

able to be aroused from

29:33

conscious from unconsciousness, you're gonna slip

29:35

right back into it again. Possibly, Um,

29:38

you are probably and apparently

29:41

families find this very

29:43

disconcerting. You're probably going to

29:46

talk about people who are dead as if they're in

29:48

the room or you can see them or hear them.

29:51

Yeah, it's just just the mind slipping. They

29:54

don't know. Um. Hospice workers, from

29:56

what I can tell, tend to just treat

29:58

it like it's real, treated

30:00

on its own terms. They're not

30:02

saying it's real or it's

30:05

a hallucination or something like that. And they advise

30:07

families not to treat it like

30:09

a hallucination. It just to not

30:11

to correct them. Yeah, that makes sense, because

30:13

you're there to provide comfort, not say

30:15

no, Grandpa, grandma has been gone

30:18

for years. Why would you want to

30:20

do that. There is an exception

30:22

to that. You would want to do that. If they're fearful

30:24

from their visions, then you can

30:26

say that's it's not real. It's just

30:28

you your brain that's not

30:31

real or whatever. Again, all about comfort,

30:34

yes, but you don't want to contradict them

30:36

if they're happy or even

30:38

saying it in a neutral tone. It's only if they're

30:40

they're fearful that you want to say that. But apparently

30:42

families are kind of like, oh god, crazy,

30:45

you know. But it's a it's a natural

30:47

part of the active dying process. Breathing

30:50

is gonna become really weird. Um,

30:53

the patient's gonna stop breathing for

30:56

disconcertingly long periods of time.

30:59

Yeah, that's called Cheney strokes

31:01

respiration stokes sorry,

31:04

Cheney Stokes name for John Cheney

31:06

and William Stokes. Obviously, the first dudes

31:08

who described it, Let's get all the press

31:11

quick deep breaths, sometimes very slow

31:13

ones like you said, sometimes stopping altogether.

31:17

Uh. And that is caused by receptors

31:19

in the heart and brain stem basically

31:22

being too sluggish to respond two

31:25

different amounts of oxygen and CEO

31:27

two and it's just kind of lagging

31:30

behind. Again, think of it as

31:32

a machine that's just slowing down and

31:34

those receptors can't pick up on it in times, So

31:36

it's it doesn't know how to tell you to breathe

31:39

basically like at a steady rate. Um,

31:41

we should say that there isn't evidence

31:43

that that is physically painful

31:47

again, like awful for the healthy

31:49

person in the room. Yeah, yeah, for the family

31:51

watching it, you think that the person is suffering,

31:54

there's not evidence that they are in fact suffering.

31:56

Yeah, but it seems like it. And

31:58

that from what I understand with palliative

32:00

care, UM, not only making

32:03

the patient comfortable is one of the priorities.

32:05

Making the family comfortable as a priority

32:08

as well, because how you die has

32:11

a very lasting impact on the people

32:13

who are there to witness your death. For

32:16

family, so um, explaining

32:18

that they're not suffering, Uh,

32:21

is helpful, but

32:23

not necessarily enough. Yeah, and I

32:25

think actually this podcast itself

32:27

could help like some people, because I don't think

32:29

a lot of people do this sort of research when

32:31

they go into a hospital room in the last hours

32:34

of a loved one's life. Yeah, and they may

32:36

not be told. They may even if

32:38

it is explained to it, it it might not sink in what

32:40

they're being told because

32:43

you know, seeing somebody gasping for breath

32:46

and then being told that they're not really suffering, those

32:48

two things might not jibe. Well, yeah, You're

32:50

you're instinct is probably trying to get help, like

32:53

they can't breathe clearly, let's get a nurse in here, and

32:55

the nurses like, no, that's that's that's

32:57

part of it. Yeah. Another one that's

32:59

very just concidering. Another sign of active dying

33:02

is the death rattle. And ye I

33:04

did a I guess it. Don't be dumb

33:06

on death rattles. And

33:09

basically, either you have fluid in the lungs

33:12

or like you know, when you clear your

33:14

throat like I just did, that's

33:16

a normal ability you

33:18

have until you start dying. You

33:21

can't clear your throat anymore. Those are your

33:23

laryngeal muscles, right, basically

33:26

spasming, what clearing

33:28

your throat? No, the death rattle. No, the death

33:30

rattle is just breathing through the mire.

33:33

It's both it's it's either liquid

33:35

or it's the muscle spasms. Yeah,

33:38

okay, so did

33:41

you find that that's painful? Because I found that it's

33:43

it doesn't cause pain, it's just it sounds

33:45

terrible again to the people in the room exactly.

33:48

And this is uh, I don't think we pointed out this

33:50

is the agonal phase of

33:53

death and it's Greek for struggle, And yeah,

33:56

that's sort of just encapsulates it.

33:58

I think that's probably why they call it the active

34:01

phase of death now rather than agonol.

34:04

Oh do they don't even call it that anymore? I mean I

34:06

think some people do, but I think the active

34:08

and agonol are the same one and the same.

34:11

It's just you know, they're

34:13

in the agony faith, right, or they're

34:15

in the active faith. Uh.

34:17

Your muscles, aside from your vocal

34:19

cords, UM might start convulsive

34:22

and spasm ng. Um.

34:25

You can get all you know, herky

34:28

jerky and do things that wouldn't seem

34:30

like you should be able to do in your state,

34:33

like um card

34:35

tricks. I don't know if you could do cards

34:37

shuffling card tricks from one hand to the other,

34:40

and Grandpa never could.

34:43

Before I knew he gets something.

34:45

We're in here somehow. Um

34:48

what else? Uh, well, let's see.

34:50

Um, your blood pressure is gonna drop, your jaw is gonna

34:52

drop, you might end up in a really weird rigid

34:55

position. Um, and

34:57

uh you're I

35:00

think we said your extremities are going to be cold to

35:02

the touch. Yeah. Actually, the

35:05

the death rattle as a result of the

35:07

spasming of your laryngeal muscles that

35:10

can also produce um, what

35:12

was described in what I

35:14

read as a barking sound. Oh yeah,

35:16

yeah, and I've never I didn't search

35:18

that out to see if that was recorded anywhere. But

35:21

I'm curious what that sounds like. I've heard

35:23

everything from gurgling like

35:26

gurgle too. It sounds like there's

35:28

marbles in your throat. Uh,

35:30

barking. That's a new one. But it makes I think

35:32

everybody has their own signature death rattle,

35:34

you know, but they the rule

35:37

of thumb, apparently among hospice workers, is once

35:39

the death rattle comes, it's a sign that they got

35:41

about forty eight hours or less left

35:43

to live. Yeah, and all of these are tells,

35:46

really and all of them. And we'll

35:48

talk about what happens after the body is dead too,

35:50

and that helps with finding

35:53

out you know, in forensics, I think we pointed out plenty

35:55

of times at the time of death, depending

35:58

on the various things that happen when they find

36:00

you. But all all of these are almost

36:03

like like markers

36:05

on a clock. Yeah, and if you're

36:07

in hospice care, you know these things like oh

36:10

this is this means this? Well, there

36:12

there are signs and symptoms of the system

36:14

shut down that the person's body is going through,

36:17

you know. So, Um, the

36:21

senses apparently also are lost

36:24

in a healthy person or a person who

36:26

has all five senses. Um,

36:28

they're lost in a certain order, and

36:31

touch and hearing are the last to go. And

36:34

another another very

36:36

important point that hospice workers

36:38

make is never ever talk

36:40

about the patient like they're not there,

36:43

because they can hear you up until the end. Like

36:45

hearing is kept so long as the person

36:48

could hear before then there's not any damage

36:50

from you know, during the act of dying period.

36:53

Um, they can hear you until

36:55

the moment they die, and you

36:57

need to be careful

36:59

what you said. Yeah, And I think that's

37:02

a really nice thing that the last things

37:04

that you can experience are the touch

37:06

of a loved one or the voice of a loved one.

37:08

Right, you know, you needs to see him. You may

37:10

not even be able to respond to that, but

37:13

you can still hear. That's true. I would

37:15

definitely pick that over sight. I'd rather

37:17

hear someone's words as I pass rather

37:20

than having silence and just seeing

37:22

their faces staring at me, so

37:24

long as the words aren't. Wait, one more thing, I

37:28

think it would be almost cruel to be able to

37:30

see and not here at the end. You

37:33

know, like he wants

37:35

to see your family upset. You

37:37

want to hear feel them hold your hand and say

37:39

everything's gonna be right. So you So you

37:42

you raise a good issue like there's if

37:44

you have a dying family

37:46

member, especially if they're dying a frailty or

37:48

they're just dying, like they're in the dying process,

37:51

so they're about to enter the dying process.

37:53

Um, you could do worse things than

37:56

to go online and educate

37:58

yourself on how to be around them. I

38:00

think people don't intuitively know how

38:02

to be around a dying person and there's certain things

38:04

that you should do, certain things you shouldn't do.

38:07

Like, for example, um, they say

38:09

that you should talk to the person, not the condition.

38:12

So don't treat them like they're frail

38:14

or dying, Like, treat them like they're your old

38:17

friend. Who they are. Um,

38:19

it's extremely important to make sure that they're in

38:21

a peaceful, calm environment. Um.

38:24

So, like maybe yelling at somebody

38:27

over the will is a really bad

38:29

idea. They seem like no brainers, but I

38:31

guess some people need to be told this stuff. Yeah, but

38:33

I mean think about it, like it can

38:35

put you on edge being around a dying person,

38:37

like do you mention the fact that they're gonna die?

38:40

Or do you you know? I mean like do your dad's

38:42

around it? If they make a joke or something

38:44

like can you laugh or do you laugh

38:46

too hard? Do you not laugh enough? Like

38:49

there's I think it's not necessarily like

38:52

yeah, I think it's it's just put you on edge

38:54

or not everyone is as sensitive to

38:57

that. Don't bring

38:59

a laptop in there and watch reruns

39:01

of the Office. No, yeah, are you speaking

39:03

from experience. I'm just gonna add that. Okay,

39:07

that's on my list. Get off your cell phone.

39:09

Yeah, pay attention to them. Sure, yeah,

39:11

I mean that's what you're there for. The as

39:14

hospice workers put it, you're giving them a very

39:16

um heartfelt gift by being

39:18

there with them while they're

39:20

dying and maybe receiving a gift, you

39:23

know, and many religions

39:25

and cultures, it's very uh much an honor

39:27

to be a part of this whole thing, and even

39:29

if you're not religious, that you

39:31

could just feel that way spiritually as a human,

39:34

you know. Okay, uh, well, let's

39:37

pause here because Chuck, it's

39:39

time for a message break

39:46

and we're back. Okay, So are

39:49

we dead yet? Are we at that point? Yeah?

39:51

The the person has passed. It

39:53

just sounded very cheery. Yeah yeah,

39:55

yeah, Well, I mean like we've rattled

39:58

off some pretty what seems

40:00

like suffering. But now the suffering is over.

40:02

If there was any other person is dead. So

40:05

once you, immediately

40:07

immediately after you die, your pupils

40:09

are going to dilate because the

40:12

muscles controlling the iris or you

40:14

know, gonna have their final rest. So

40:16

your pupils are going to dilate. And then

40:19

have you heard of the terminal tier or the lacrima

40:22

mortists? This is

40:24

a usually

40:26

in the right eye, and there's no real explanation

40:28

for it, but um,

40:30

it is a final tier that

40:33

you shed. And um,

40:36

it doesn't always happen right after you die,

40:38

although it can. They did a study in

40:40

the early nineties in New Zealand and out

40:42

of a hundred deaths, fourteen of them right

40:44

at the time of death had the lacryma

40:46

mortists here and uh thirteen

40:49

of them in the final ten hours. And they

40:51

say uh to

40:53

to look out for that if you're the family, because

40:55

it can be a sign. And also they

40:58

try to talk you into the fact it it's

41:00

a comforting thing to see that tier being

41:02

shed. Wow. Yeah.

41:04

And since we're on eyes, you know the old

41:06

thing where you close someone's eyes after they

41:08

die, Oh yeah, or you put silver

41:11

dollars on if it's it's the old

41:13

West. Um, I guess

41:15

people do that too. So you're not having

41:17

someone a dead body staring at you, right,

41:19

because if they're looking dead forward,

41:21

straight forward there like following you all

41:24

through out there. Yeah, and it's definitely a movie trope.

41:26

But if you don't close the eyes. And I never

41:28

knew this, um something

41:30

called t A c H E. Noir.

41:33

I don't know if it's tash or taste more.

41:37

That is a black, a dark reddish brown

41:39

strip that forms horizontally over your

41:41

eyeball. And I guess it's just you

41:43

know, your eyeballs dry out and has the air. So

41:45

if you don't close your eyes, and I looked it up,

41:48

you're gonna see this weird horizontal

41:50

stripe across your eye. But there's a plus

41:53

the effect that has in the living, the

41:55

difference between seeing a dead body with their

41:57

eyes closed and a dead body with their eyes open,

41:59

and it's just it's like a galaxy

42:02

between the two as far as discomfort

42:04

goes. Somebody should edit together the like

42:06

every time that's ever been done in a movie, just

42:08

like super Fast. All

42:12

right, So that's all I got

42:14

on the eyes, Um

42:16

said Chuck. I want to alarm you

42:18

right now. Boy. You have

42:21

living in your guts right

42:23

now, the very organisms

42:26

that are going to decompose your body when you

42:28

die. They're just sitting around waiting waiting

42:30

for action, waiting for the signal yep Um,

42:33

when you die, there's

42:35

a lot of stuff that's still alive,

42:37

that's still going on, even though your brain

42:40

dead, whole brain, higher, brain,

42:43

heart dead, your heart stopped dead.

42:45

That's another definition of death. I don't know if we mentioned

42:48

heart. Your heart's not beating anymore. You're

42:50

dead. Yes, Um, there's

42:53

no bringing you back. You've been in your

42:56

heart hasn't or your brain hasn't had oxygen for

42:58

a while. You died of hype thermia.

43:01

Uh, and they warmed you up. So now

43:03

you're officially dead. You're gone,

43:05

But there's still a lot of stuff.

43:07

Remember the poop Shake episode

43:10

who Can Forget? We talked about the microbio

43:12

and we have this whole other like

43:14

part of our life are living organism

43:17

that's still around, that's still operating,

43:19

and a lot of stuff living within us, including

43:22

part of our microbiome. They're still carrying

43:24

on processes like apparently you can

43:26

harvest skin cells for twenty four hours

43:29

and and they're still alive. Just

43:32

use them, Yeah, for all

43:34

sorts of stuff. Yeah, you can harvest

43:36

them. Uh. And then of course

43:38

inside your intestines there's a little tiny organisms

43:40

that are still living and are gonna help do

43:42

the work that comes next, starting a couple

43:44

of days after death, like if you just fell

43:47

over in the woods and no one was

43:49

around. I always loved the setting right, Um,

43:52

and you're just left there. Within

43:54

about three days, these organisms

43:57

of micro flora

43:59

is going go to work on you,

44:02

starting in your intestines. Yeah, and this is

44:04

after the various mortises. Correct, Yes,

44:06

which I guess we should kind of go over

44:08

it. But I would recommend everybody, um

44:11

go listen to what causes rigor mortis?

44:13

For sure. It's on the website. You can go to stuff you

44:15

should know dot com, slash podcasts,

44:18

uh slash what hyphen

44:20

causes hyphen rigor hyphen

44:23

mortis. Um,

44:25

we'll just run through the mortis is real quick. Then,

44:28

Um. Algor mortis, or the death chill, that's

44:31

the first first thing that's gonna happen. That's where your body

44:33

starts dropping in temperature about a degree

44:35

and a half fahrenheit per hour until

44:37

you are just like a nice

44:39

red wine at room temperature.

44:42

Yeah, actually that's not quite true.

44:44

Red wines like sixty four degrees for you. I guess

44:46

it depends what kind of room you're in. Yeah, if you're in a sixty

44:48

four degree it's perfect, all

44:51

right. What else? Well, after algor

44:53

mortis, um, you get rigor mortis a couple of

44:55

hours after death, where the body um,

44:57

settles into a

45:00

stiff state. Uh,

45:02

and that lasts for what like twenty four hours?

45:04

I don't remember, we talked about it. Uh

45:07

yeah, yeah, I think so. Um, and then

45:09

between those you have live remortis or

45:13

subdulation. That's where like all the

45:15

blood coagulates them. Yeah, basically

45:17

that your red blood cells are pretty heavy and they just

45:19

sink and um, it's

45:22

about twenty minutes to three hours

45:25

after death is when you're going to be in live

45:27

remortis, and then after

45:29

that is riggor that's right. Okay, so

45:32

not back to putrification right, Well,

45:34

that's the best thing can talk about. Yeah, that's that's

45:36

basically like you're these organisms go

45:38

into work breaking down your body and they do

45:40

it pretty quick. Um.

45:43

The pancreas apparently has so many in

45:45

there that it just itself eats

45:47

itself. The pancreas consumes itself. It's pretty

45:49

efficient. Um, your other organs are gonna

45:51

eventually eventually be consumed

45:54

in turned into liquid. You're

45:56

liquefied from the inside out. Yeah,

45:58

you're gonna turn colors, uh in this

46:00

order green than purple than black, which

46:03

is just like a like a black eye,

46:06

I guess. Yeah, in that the same stage. Yeah,

46:08

except it never fully heels explodes.

46:12

Um you Uh, within

46:14

a couple of weeks, you're

46:16

going to be liquid inside.

46:19

Uh. The organisms

46:21

that are eating you produce a gas as

46:24

a byproduct from their consumption. So

46:26

you're going to be bloated. Your tongue is going to stick

46:28

out. He's gonna turn dark to your tongue.

46:30

Yeah, and that gas really stinks. Your

46:32

eyes are going to protrude. Yeah.

46:34

Um. There's something called purge fluid that

46:37

is a putrid, reddish brown fluid

46:40

that can be expelled through just

46:43

everywhere you've got an opening. Can

46:46

come out of your mouth, your nose, your vagina.

46:49

Uh, it can be mixed with feces and come out of your

46:51

rectum. Another. Um, there's

46:53

something else I can come out of your vagina too. Yeah.

46:56

This is maybe the worst thing I've

46:58

ever heard. I just I

47:00

had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea.

47:03

You know, I know all about death and all that, and

47:05

it's like interests me. I had never

47:07

heard of this before, and you want to talk about you don't either.

47:09

Maybe we should type it into the computer and

47:12

make the computer say it. Do

47:14

we have that ability? Oh?

47:17

Wow, that's pretty good. That's a good

47:20

computer impression. So wait, that's

47:22

what you do when you don't want

47:24

to say something yourself. You pretend you're

47:26

a computer. Yeah that, Emily

47:28

and I most of our fights are like that. Really.

47:30

Yeah, it's pretty cute. I go

47:32

into a war games mode. What

47:35

was it again, computer? Uh? Coffin

47:39

birth. So basically those gases that,

47:41

um, this is a

47:43

real thing. We're not making this up. Yeah, but

47:46

post mortal fetal extrusion is another

47:48

name for it. So the gases that build up

47:50

in the body before the body ruptures

47:52

um, which comes a little later, can

47:54

become so pressurized

47:57

that a pregnant woman who has died

47:59

with the feet is still in utero can

48:02

actually the gases can push

48:04

the fetus out of the vagina

48:07

um, which is birth.

48:10

Yeah, and this doesn't happen much anymore,

48:13

thankfully, because we take care of dead bodies

48:15

pretty quickly. Um.

48:17

Although they did find evidence of it in a case

48:19

in two thousand eight where this woman was found like in the woods,

48:22

but um, it was described a lot in

48:25

like the eighteenth century

48:28

medical literature. You know, it just drove

48:30

them crazy to she was obviously

48:32

alive for weeks afterward. Yeah,

48:35

and archaeologists apparently too, or I

48:38

have to rethink sometimes when they find

48:40

because sometimes you would die during childbirth, but

48:42

the um they have buried the the

48:45

baby with the mother, and

48:48

so you would find the bones like cradling each other almost.

48:50

But then they go back, they've had to go back and

48:52

look at somewhere they find the you

48:55

know, between the legs, the bones of

48:57

the baby, and they think that might be the case, like of a

48:59

coffin birth. Right, So

49:01

there's the worst thing in the world. Yeah,

49:04

Um, there's probably death male band with

49:06

that name. If there's not, there is now. Um.

49:09

So the gases ultimately,

49:11

eventually once they start, once

49:13

they really get down to business and they're no longer

49:16

just what's it called where they're the fluids coming

49:18

out a little orifice is here, they're purge fluid.

49:20

Okay. So once it's like enough with the purge

49:22

fluid, the we're

49:25

just gonna tear the sucker open. Your

49:27

body ultimately ruptures. Yeah,

49:30

and this is you know, your skin has already blistered at

49:32

this point, Um, your hair,

49:34

nails, and teeth have fallen out. They don't keep growing.

49:37

No, it's your skin receding from drawing

49:39

out, from desiccating. So pass

49:41

that around in school kids. When

49:43

someone says that your fingernails keep going after

49:45

death, you set him straight, tell him Josh

49:47

saying, oh god, I just

49:50

realized there's kids listening to this. Um.

49:53

And then the old d gloving which we talked about before,

49:56

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, remember

49:58

that? Yeah? Where the that can upen to

50:00

you? If you drive at ten and

50:02

two and you have an air bag, the

50:05

gases that expand the air bag

50:07

out of your steering wheel are very hot.

50:10

And if you're not driving at nine

50:12

and three and you have your hands at

50:14

like ten and two or something like, you're going

50:16

to be de gloved alive. Yeah,

50:19

but your skin is just burned

50:21

right off your hands, or it's burned and separated

50:24

and then eventually comes off. So ten and two is

50:26

not how you should drive it on. Really,

50:29

That's what I've learned. Yeah, I drive it either just

50:32

a straight up six o'clock with one hand or

50:35

a nooner, just just straight up noon noon. I

50:38

rarely have two hands on the wheel. You don't drive with like

50:40

your knees, with your hands behind your head relaxing

50:43

occasionally if I'm you know, relaxing.

50:45

Yeah, we're playing the guitar or something. Yeah,

50:50

de gloving is and then we talked about this

50:52

in the probably rigor mortis.

50:55

But that's when your body farms maybe,

50:58

yeah, that's when basically your skin is

51:00

removed, still attached to things

51:03

like fingernails and things like

51:05

that, and it's they call it the gloving for

51:07

a reason. I don't think we need to explain that it

51:09

makes perfect sense. Or de socking sometimes,

51:11

you know, can happen to your feet. And well I hadn't heard

51:13

of that one. Did you just make that up? Well, they

51:15

said gloves or socks if it's

51:18

your feet. But I did make up the socking.

51:22

Well I have to use that from now on. That might

51:24

be a new thing. Um.

51:27

So the body, once it once

51:29

ruptures, your organs are already liquid

51:32

um, and all that's left is a skeleton

51:36

which will eventually turn to dust too. Can I be

51:38

done? No, wait, we can't be done, because

51:40

we do need to talk a little bit about assisted

51:43

suicide. Yeah,

51:46

I just eat that up for you. You should. Um,

51:49

that's quite a controversial subject, like we said,

51:51

Um, I don't know if I said

51:53

or not. Like this has just been such a

51:56

huge whirlwind of input of

51:59

information in my head the last like thirty

52:01

six hours studying for this um

52:03

that I don't know what I've said yet or

52:05

not, or what we talked about in another podcast,

52:07

but so we talked about dying of frailty

52:10

of old age and that it's increasing. Supposedly

52:13

five out of ten people in the United

52:16

States will die in the intensive care unit.

52:19

And I saw this Ted talk from Newcastle,

52:22

Australia with this guy I can't remember

52:24

what his name is, but it's it's about dying. I think

52:26

it's called it can we talk about dying or something, And

52:28

his point was, you're going

52:31

to die in the I see you, whether

52:33

you want to or not, if you die

52:36

of a degenerative disease or frailty,

52:39

unless you say you don't want

52:41

to die there, because the way medical science

52:44

is currently set up, you

52:46

are going to be treated most

52:49

of the time up until a

52:51

bitter end with life saving

52:53

measures, and you're

52:55

going to die in the I see you with

52:57

tubes hooked up and things be being

53:00

and like other people having crash

53:02

carts taken in and out of their room and people

53:05

making a big ruckus up until

53:07

the point you die unless they give you palliative

53:09

care or or you say, I don't

53:12

want to be sustained like that, I

53:14

don't want to go to the i c U. And this point

53:16

was, if half of Americans are

53:19

gonna die in the i c U, you

53:21

have to assume that maybe not all of them would

53:23

want to die in the i c U. And

53:26

therefore they need to think of things like I

53:28

wanted an advanced directive, a living

53:31

will, I want a living power of attorney

53:33

to somebody to say no, no,

53:35

do not put them on a ventilator, do

53:37

not put them in feeding tubes. Like they don't

53:39

want that. They just want to die, or

53:41

they want to go to hospitals. They want to go back home. That's

53:44

another big one, like they don't let you

53:46

go back home, especially if

53:49

you can't speak for yourself, like to

53:51

medical science these days, that's crazy.

53:54

You don't leave the hospital when you know you're dying.

53:56

You stay in the hospital and and

53:59

we keep doing stuff until you die. That's

54:01

not the way it drives with a lot of people. But if you

54:04

don't stop and think about it and then write

54:06

it down or tell somebody who can speak for you,

54:08

that's you're not going to go home. You're

54:11

not going to get to hospice. You have to

54:13

do this ahead of time. And part of that

54:15

that's kind of come out of this idea is

54:18

Okay, well, if we have autonomy to

54:20

say I don't want you to intibate

54:22

me, why don't we have the autonomy

54:24

to say, I want you to give me some

54:27

stuff that's going to painlessly end

54:29

by life, because it's either that

54:31

or facing a tremendous amount of pain and suffering

54:34

through this degenerative disease. Basically

54:36

saying I'm ready, I am ready,

54:38

it is my life. It's like

54:41

the Richard dryf this movie from the eighties,

54:44

Uh covertus, whose life is anyway? I

54:46

think I have no

54:48

idea what you're talking about. Think it was a movie

54:51

about assisted suicide and do

54:53

you should you have the right to be able to You

54:55

know, that's a hot button issue for sure, but apparently

54:57

most Americans or the jority

55:00

of Americans actually support it until

55:02

you start using a word like suicide. Right when

55:05

you pull them and say do you are

55:07

you in favor of doctors helping

55:09

someone painlessly in their life or something

55:12

at the end of life? Yeah, And then

55:14

they're like, okay, so you're a favorite physician assistant

55:16

suicide. Um,

55:19

what's that word? You know? And and the

55:21

doctors who are in favor of euthanasia

55:23

is another term for it. Um,

55:27

say, look at palliative

55:29

care, it's like half of a step away

55:31

from physician assisted suicide.

55:33

Like you're keeping somebody if they requested and

55:36

knockdown on morphine for the rest of their life,

55:38

so they're never going to regain consciousness.

55:40

Um. There's this you you dug up this one

55:43

article by a British physician

55:45

who argues that, um,

55:47

that agonal um

55:50

gasping reflex. Apparently when

55:52

part of the apnea is that your body

55:55

has a reflex where you gasp for

55:57

air and it's really disconcerting

55:59

to family members. Even though they don't think

56:01

that you're suffering, it looks like

56:03

you're suffering. And this doctor argued,

56:06

well, we have drugs that can block

56:08

this response so that the person

56:10

can't gusp for air. And what it's going to cost

56:12

them their last couple of breaths. But these

56:15

last couple of breaths make it appear like they're suffering,

56:17

and the family remembers that their kids

56:19

suffered. Um, so why wouldn't

56:21

we do that? And there's this conversation

56:24

that's taking place more and more and more that

56:27

ultimately it's kind of like, who

56:30

is somebody to say that somebody can't

56:32

choose to end their own life painlessly

56:35

through the use of like drugs or

56:37

like Hunter Thompson did. Well,

56:39

I mean, that's another way to go, and you anybody

56:41

can do that, sure, but there

56:44

are some people out there who don't want to die violently

56:47

for their family. Like that's the part that I

56:50

was upset about with that was his wife, like finding

56:52

him and stuff, his wife and his

56:54

son, and it was just like, not only

56:57

that he did it in his own basement, which I can understand

56:59

doing it at home, but he left quite a mess

57:01

in his own basement for his family to clean

57:03

up. But if he had other options these

57:06

days, like doctor assisted

57:08

suicide, he might not have had to make a mess

57:10

in his beast My first families and

57:12

chuck, uh. We know that Hunter

57:14

Thompson is far from the only person

57:17

to make his own exit his own way.

57:19

Another very famous person, uh,

57:22

Sigmund Freud did too. Huh oh yeah,

57:24

yeah, you know that assisted suicide. Yeah,

57:27

literally, physician assisted suicide. He

57:29

was um diagnosed

57:32

with cancer of the palette because

57:34

he smoked tons of cigars, which

57:36

were sometimes just a cigar and

57:39

UH. For sixteen years he lived with that diagnosis

57:42

and finally, towards the end, he asked his

57:44

surgeon, his physician, go

57:47

ahead and hit me up with I think five

57:49

grams of morphine, like just a

57:51

ton of morphine. And he died three hours after

57:53

the injection of it, but which was more than

57:55

his usual two grams of morphine right

57:58

or cocaine. He loved cocaine um,

58:01

but he had um developed what was

58:03

called todden angst todin

58:05

angst as German, which is a dread

58:07

of death. So

58:10

and so we lived with that for sixteen years. But

58:12

he finally he decided along

58:14

the way like I fear

58:16

this, but I'm going to take it into my own hands. Physician

58:19

assisted suicide. And

58:21

there's definitely more than one side

58:23

to this coin. There's a lot of people. There's very

58:26

strong opinions on either side. But I

58:28

think it's a at the very least, even if

58:30

you remove a motion from it's an extremely interesting

58:32

conversation and that it reveals so

58:35

much about our attitudes towards death and

58:37

autonomy and like who's who

58:40

has the right to decide whether they're going to

58:42

die or who has the right to tell somebody that

58:44

they can't do that? Whose life is it anyway,

58:46

Richard Dreyfus. Uh, and then chuck

58:48

one. One other thing that we want to hit on

58:51

is um regret. Yeah,

58:53

I actually saw this a few weeks ago, just

58:55

by chance, and then you sent it to me. Um.

58:58

I think it was in England hospice

59:01

nurse spent a lot of time

59:03

researching life regrets

59:06

over the course of a certain amount of time and

59:08

came up with the five most common life

59:11

regrets. And uh,

59:13

I think this is like a good way to end it, you know. Number

59:17

one, I wish I had the courage to live

59:19

a life true to myself and not the life

59:21

others expected of me. That was

59:23

the number one regret. Number

59:25

two was I wish I didn't work so hard. That

59:28

doesn't surprise me at all. Number

59:31

three I wish I had the courage to express my feelings.

59:34

Number four I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

59:36

It's a very sad one. And I wish

59:38

I'd let myself be happier. There's

59:41

number five. Yeah, like that she was saying that

59:43

they didn't realize towards until the end

59:45

of their life. That happiness is a choice that

59:47

you make. It's not something that happens to you. It's something

59:50

you go search out. It's a state of mind that

59:52

you strive for

59:55

and to figure that out like at the end,

59:58

that that's the regret. Yeah, So

1:00:00

call to action people, Yeah, really, like you think

1:00:02

about the stuff. You don't have to wish these

1:00:05

things on your deathbed if you start doing something about

1:00:07

it now exactly dying,

1:00:10

Chuck, you know what we might have just done.

1:00:12

We might have just finished the death of

1:00:14

the death suite. I bet there's

1:00:16

something else. Yeah, only time can tell. But

1:00:20

I don't know how much more aspects of death

1:00:22

we can cover. And I'll tell you what. I'm gonna

1:00:24

put all of them together in a blog

1:00:26

post the Death Sweet, so

1:00:29

everybody can go listen to all things death

1:00:32

via stuff you should know. In

1:00:35

the meantime, if you want to look up more about dying,

1:00:37

just type dying into the search bar. How stuff

1:00:39

works. I think it has its own channel. Um,

1:00:42

there's so much to it. Uh.

1:00:44

And since I said search bar, it's time

1:00:46

for a listener mail. This

1:00:49

is a nice one. Um. We don't normally do shout outs,

1:00:51

but this was a nice one, and I thought, what better

1:00:53

way to end such a depressing show.

1:00:56

Uh? Hey, guys and Jerry loved the

1:00:58

podcast. Josh, I have to thank you for teaching

1:01:00

my fiance, Danny and me about the flashlight

1:01:03

trick to see spider ez. Yeah. I still

1:01:05

haven't done it, man, I never think about it at night. Jerry,

1:01:07

you said you tried to write new work. Yeah, okay,

1:01:10

I need to do it. I need to set a reminder. And my

1:01:12

my response to people who have been like, can

1:01:14

you can you explain it again? Practice?

1:01:16

That's my explanation. Just practice, Just try it from

1:01:18

a different angle. Just practice. It's

1:01:21

a real thing. It's not a trick. It

1:01:24

is completely amazing. And this is from Peacheat

1:01:26

by the way. Uh, and it's wonderful and frightening

1:01:28

at the same time. But the problem now is that whenever

1:01:31

we walk our dogs at night, I just can't

1:01:33

have my normal fiance. I

1:01:35

have this dude with the flashlight stuck to

1:01:37

his forehead, stopping at every field

1:01:39

to let me know just how many spiders are dogs are stepping

1:01:41

on and how we are always surrounded. Thanks

1:01:45

for the show, and now for a

1:01:47

shameless request. I know you don't often give shout

1:01:49

outs. But it would be the most amazing thing

1:01:51

ever if you could give a shout out to Danny on the

1:01:53

podcast The Airs sometime

1:01:55

before our wedding on oct let

1:01:58

him know that I love him more than anything, and

1:02:00

then I'm excited to share my life with him, even if

1:02:02

he does have a flashlight stuck to his forehead,

1:02:05

with the rest of our lives walking our

1:02:07

dogs together. I know this is totally

1:02:09

blown away and I would even let

1:02:11

him listen to that podcast first. So

1:02:14

thanks to Jerry. Thanks guys. That

1:02:17

is from Peachy way in Thousand

1:02:19

Oaks, California. I think Peachi

1:02:22

just expressed it very nicely. Yeah,

1:02:24

so Danny, Peachy, congratulations, Uh,

1:02:27

best of luck, best witches from us. I told

1:02:29

her listen up for it on the Dying podcast

1:02:31

and he thought that was kind of funny, and it's like great.

1:02:34

Yeah, and Danny, um, maybe put that flight

1:02:36

once in a while. Yeah, White

1:02:40

h and Peachy don't use the word fiance so much.

1:02:43

Okay, it's a life

1:02:45

lesson. I'm Chuck right there. I would like to hear

1:02:47

that. Um. If you want

1:02:49

to see if you can talk Chuck into a shout

1:02:52

out, take your best shot. You can tweet

1:02:54

to us at s Y s K podcast.

1:02:56

You can talk to him directly

1:02:59

on Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should

1:03:01

Know. It's where he spends all this time. UM.

1:03:04

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1:03:06

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1:03:08

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1:03:10

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1:03:13

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1:03:20

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1:03:22

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1:03:31

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