0:01

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production

0:03

of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

0:11

and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

0:13

There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there. It's

0:16

just the two of us. So that's okay because

0:18

you're here, dear listener insert

0:21

your first name after that, and this is

0:23

stuff you should Know. That's

0:26

right. Uh, Stanley kuber

0:28

condition m sort

0:30

of. I went to go, um watch

0:33

that last night? Oh yeah, and

0:35

then I was like, wait, I think that's really long.

0:37

So I looked up the run time. I was like, I'm not watching

0:40

that, so have yet to see

0:42

it. Yeah, watch Pazz of Glory instead.

0:45

What was that? Is that? The one about Barry Lyndon?

0:48

Now that was Barry Lindon. That's

0:51

great too, But if you're

0:54

gunning for early Kubrick, I would say, uh,

0:56

Killer's Kiss if you want to go super early. And

0:58

then as of Glory, which is the

1:01

other one he did with Kirk Douglas, the

1:03

World War One trench warfare film. That's great,

1:06

okay. And Barry Lyndon, which is just

1:08

a masterpiece, wasn't that Ryan O'Neill, Yeah,

1:11

boy, it's good. Yeah, he's

1:13

in one of my favorite movies of all time Paper movie.

1:16

That's right, and one of my favorite movies.

1:18

The main event? What

1:20

was that? It was a rom

1:23

com? He did as he played a boxer opposite

1:25

Barbra Streisand was she a boxer?

1:28

No? It was. It was

1:30

not great. I mean it was fine. It was one of the seventies

1:32

rom coms, but not one of

1:34

my favorite movies by any stretch. Speaking of rom

1:36

coms, but minus the rom part and just

1:39

the calm, heavy on the calm. Have

1:41

you seen Eliza this Lessengers

1:44

sketch show on Netflix? No,

1:46

it was very good that How

1:49

do I know that name? She's She's gotten

1:51

pretty big as a stand up in the last couple

1:53

of years. Um. She If

1:56

you haven't discovered her yet, you're

1:58

welcome. She's really great. I'm

2:01

looking her up now, which is something I don't normally

2:04

do. I don't think I recognize her. Okay, well,

2:06

she's got some stand up specials that are definitely worth

2:08

watching. And then she just debuted a season

2:11

of a sketch comedy show that's pretty good,

2:14

definitely worth seeing. I have to check

2:16

that out. Ryan O'Neil's

2:18

not in it yet, but like

2:20

I said, it's just one season. Uh,

2:23

we're on a shout out Live Science. By the way, we used

2:26

how Stuff Works article

2:28

on Spartacus and this great Live Science

2:30

article on Spartacus, the real Spartacus,

2:33

not Kirk Douglas. I also read an

2:35

article from a guy named

2:37

Um Kenneth Spartacus Kenneth

2:40

P check c z e c H

2:42

like check the Czech Republic. I guess

2:45

maybe that's where his family is from. Who knows, but

2:48

he wrote an article back in the nineties

2:51

about Um Spartacus

2:53

that was very exhaustive, that was helpful. And

2:55

then there's also a historian named Barry

2:57

Strauss who I read some like interviews

3:00

articles from him too. He's a

3:02

bit of a specialist on Spartacus, so

3:04

shout out to those cats as well. Yeah.

3:06

So the story of Spartacus, if you've watched this

3:09

the Kubrick film, it is not Um.

3:12

I mean, there are bits of truth in there, but it's

3:14

definitely not some real truthful

3:17

biopic of his life. Good

3:20

movie, but we're going to give

3:22

you the real story of spartacus life,

3:24

which is that of a and

3:27

the leader of an uprising of slaves

3:29

who said Rome We're

3:32

not going to take it anymore. Um,

3:34

no, we ain't gonna take it. That's

3:37

right, We're not going to take it.

3:42

And it's the original title, I think. Um, and

3:44

we we met that guy. Oh, actually we passed

3:47

that guy backstage on's members

3:49

right? What show was that? Whatever? I

3:52

think it was Jeff Brokes, wasn't it? No? No, no, it

3:54

was the whatever show? With? Was

3:57

it with? Was that Martha

3:59

Stewart's daughter? Yea, she has a first name,

4:01

Alexis, Alexis and Jennifer,

4:04

right, Jennifer and Alexis. Wow. Yes,

4:07

remember when we were on TV every now and then, Yeah,

4:09

we'd be on that. We were on Jeff Probes. Do you remember

4:12

the Jeff Probes Show. He was interviewing us and

4:14

he zoned out so hard I almost

4:16

said, like, Jeff, are you okay while

4:19

we were talking. Yeah, and we used

4:21

to occasionally we'd be on CNN. They would have

4:23

us on to do like talking head stuff, and

4:25

then, uh, everyone

4:28

just sort of stopped caring

4:30

about us. We got really

4:33

well, we got really popular podcasting,

4:36

and they just all said, huh,

4:39

well, whatever, we don't need those guys. That's

4:41

okay, Now, I don't want to be on CNN

4:44

or any news network. Well, yeah,

4:46

we were on the soul A Deed O'Brien show.

4:49

We were interviewed by Christine Roman. She's

4:52

she's like super legit journalist. It was

4:54

pretty so was Jeff Probest right.

4:57

The tribe has spoken and

4:59

they who else? And

5:02

that what he said, the tribe is spoken? Yeah,

5:04

and then he that candle. He'd kick you in the

5:06

seat of your pants on the way out, and

5:09

you would thank God, because what a relief

5:11

to be kicked off that garbage show man.

5:15

It was good the first season or two. I think.

5:17

I think I did watch the first couple of seasons. Um,

5:20

but you know, I'm not gonna yunk someone's army. There's

5:22

probably still Survivor shows going on. Oh

5:25

no, there are they. I think the most recent

5:27

season they brought together like

5:30

past champions or past people

5:33

who got kicked off one of the two and

5:35

said who's going to win this time? Yeah?

5:38

I don't. The only one I do like that is Top Chef,

5:40

which is still maintained its integrity after

5:43

all these years and never became dumb. And

5:46

then for a little while I did that. Discovery

5:48

had a show I cannot remember the name

5:50

of it where it was like a post

5:52

apocalyptic scenario where

5:55

they would put people in this area

5:59

and like a ocasionally they would send in

6:01

these mad Max type people to mess with them

6:03

and take their stuff, and they had

6:05

to build things and defend themselves.

6:07

God, what was that called? It was really awful. And where

6:10

the people naked? Because I can tell you the name

6:12

of the show if they were naked. I

6:14

have watched more than one episode of Naked and Afraid

6:17

I haven't. Did they just like like blur

6:19

out there there, um the

6:22

parts of their bathing suit covers. No,

6:24

they're completely naked and it's just shows

6:27

dong out the whole time that

6:30

like goyage Golden Record is

6:32

blurred out. And the kind of the first

6:34

thing that the ladies do

6:37

is fashion some sort of uh

6:39

eve like covering on

6:42

her on her bits. And

6:44

the men either do that or they're just like,

6:46

hey, whatever. He's the guy at the gym

6:48

that has a towel like over his

6:50

shoulder but not around his waist. Oh

6:53

yeah, that guy, that guy wearing

6:55

tennis shoes with no socks.

6:57

Yes a k A. Men who were proud of their

6:59

generals dong out. So

7:03

I'm guessing Spartacus is probably dong out.

7:07

He was, um, are

7:09

we back to Spartacus now you think, okay,

7:11

So Spartacus was this guy who

7:13

everyone knows the name of. Uh.

7:16

And you may even know that he was a gladiator.

7:18

Maybe you know that he led

7:20

a slave revolt. But this guy

7:23

was really nuanced, really

7:25

detailed, and actually even

7:27

after a couple of thousand years

7:29

of history analysis, you

7:32

know, falling in and out of favor of

7:34

different cultures that come and go, he

7:37

he stands the test of time pretty

7:40

well, even after being draped

7:42

in you know, a lot of people's

7:44

hang ups and like, you know, held

7:46

up as a prime example of the

7:48

ideals of whatever group are

7:51

revering him. Like, even after you

7:53

strip all that stuff away and look at the historical

7:55

figure, he was still a pretty pretty

7:58

interesting and and kind to upstanding

8:00

guy as far as leaders of slave revolts

8:03

go. That's

8:06

right, and that's a good way to put it. Uh.

8:08

He was a Thracian, which means

8:10

he is from Thrace. We don't

8:13

know a ton about his early life because

8:16

they just didn't bother recording the

8:18

history of of nobody's

8:20

slaves in ancient Rome. Why would they.

8:23

It took him to do remarkable things for historians

8:26

to take notice with their their quill

8:28

and paper, and the

8:30

Romans at the time, this

8:33

was an area the Thrace was in southeast

8:35

Europe where they're always trying to subjugate

8:38

this area of Europe and first century BC,

8:41

and it was just it

8:44

was just not a good scene if you weren't sort

8:47

of upper echelon Roman at the time.

8:50

No, and Thrace was UM. I get the impression

8:52

that it was not

8:54

really want to live

8:57

under Roman yoke, but I

8:59

think I also have the impression that

9:01

they were, um, they were in league

9:04

with the Romans, but it was kind of like one of those

9:06

you know, we can either we can either

9:08

be an ally of yours or you can

9:10

conquer us kind of thing, and so

9:12

I think there was a bit of a tense truce and

9:15

there was a U. I

9:17

don't I don't think any contemporary

9:20

text about um Sparta

9:22

Kisses still around today. Most

9:25

of the earliest stuff we know about him comes from

9:27

at the earliest the first century CE,

9:30

and he was living in the last century

9:33

or the first century BC. UM,

9:36

so people were writing about him a hundred two hundred

9:38

years later. But one of

9:40

the one of those old texts says

9:43

that he wasn't born a slave, and

9:45

that he actually was a Thracian soldier

9:49

who was an ally who who

9:51

worked in the auxiliary or fought in the auxiliary

9:54

for Rome. So he was a soldier

9:56

under Roman command at some point, and

9:59

they think that that he was drummed

10:01

out of the army for some reason unjustly,

10:04

this ancient author says, and

10:07

that that kind of led on this path to him

10:09

becoming a bandit and a criminal.

10:12

Yeah, he was like the guy in the new Star Wars movies,

10:16

which one which one, the guy

10:18

that that was a stormtrooper

10:20

and then said, you know what, I'm not a stormtrooper anymore.

10:23

I want to kill stormtroopers. Okay,

10:25

I haven't I've seen the

10:29

Last Jedi one. Yeah,

10:31

that's one. Okay, So but

10:33

that was a that was like a side

10:36

story, right, that wasn't one of the actual

10:38

cannon. No, So the Last Jedi

10:41

was they made three main

10:43

ones, a part of the cannon, and then a Star Wars

10:45

fans, you have words for all these things. Rogue

10:49

one was the one that was outside, and then the Han solo

10:51

movie was outside and not outside cannon, just

10:53

not part of the whatever that those movies.

10:56

So Rogue one is the one I'm thinking of

10:58

that was really good. Yeah. I enjoyed

11:00

that one quite a bit. The other ones, I don't think

11:02

I've been able to make it through a single one yet. Oh

11:05

yeah, I like them, but they're

11:07

Star Wars movies. I don't I don't expect greatness.

11:09

I just think they're kind of fun. Yeah, I mean I love

11:12

the first three. Yeah, sure, but

11:14

not the first three seal

11:16

you know, the first three that were released. Ever you

11:19

liked one through three sequentially or not? Yeah,

11:22

I'm talking about a fan of Menace. Yeah. It

11:25

is the best of the bunch, all

11:29

right. So he's like the stormtrooper guy in

11:31

these new movies that is no longer a stormtrooper

11:33

and wants to kill stormtroopers. Uh.

11:36

He gets captured at one point, and he gets

11:38

sold into slavery in Rome. And

11:41

then there was this man that I love.

11:43

This article says a man referred to

11:46

at times as Vacca. I

11:49

guess that's his name, or maybe he just had a bunch

11:51

of names. But the upshot is this guy had

11:53

a gladiator school in Capua,

11:56

about a hundred and twenty miles southeast of Rome,

11:58

and that's where Spartacus

12:00

was sent to train to be a gladiatory in

12:03

Hawaii, right,

12:05

and I feel like we should take a break and get

12:08

our Star Wars facts straight and come back. Goodness,

12:10

Okay, all right, we'll be right back,

12:30

Chuck,

12:39

Chuck. So when

12:41

we left off, Chuck um

12:44

Boba fett Head left

12:46

the army. You know, I'm not even going to do

12:48

that to us. Have you watched Mandalorian?

12:51

No, huh, it's good, the

12:53

one with Amy Sadaris. Uh.

12:57

Yeah, she is the Mandalorian. She

13:00

is in it, though she gets to like hang out with baby Yoda.

13:02

I think, no, it's she isn't and

13:04

it's a you know, I love

13:06

seeing her in anything, but it does taking

13:08

me out of the moment just a bit. But it's a fun show. It's

13:10

kind of like the A Team. You'd like it, Oh well, yeah,

13:12

I probably would like it. Then it's like a week adventure

13:15

of the Week type of thing. Okay, cool, Yeah

13:17

I might. I might actually check that out. I've been looking

13:19

for something new. I started Ozark and I'm like,

13:21

man, this is really dark. Yeah, where

13:24

are you now? Fifth

13:27

episode? I think of season one? Okay,

13:31

burned through season one or anything. No, I've

13:33

been taking it slow. I don't

13:35

like that. Yeah. I mean you've been taken

13:37

in small doses here there. Yeah,

13:40

I think I'm through like the first four of the latest

13:42

season. And by the way, correction,

13:45

I think I said it was like Heartwell, it

13:47

is like Alatuna. Okay,

13:49

that makes way more sense because I was thinking, is

13:51

that Ala Tuna? Yeah? Alatuna

13:54

is you know where Alatuna is for

13:57

damn is? Yeah? Ala Tuna

13:59

or heart wells up near South Carolina. It's not at

14:01

the same lake, yeah, because I have

14:04

friends, We have friends who um have

14:06

a place on Heartwell. And I was like, I

14:08

don't recognize it. But then I thought I probably

14:10

wouldn't recognize this about any lake, so

14:14

I just kind of went with Heartwell. It was fine. Or

14:19

from what I learned, there was no such

14:21

thing as a natural lake in the state of Georgia.

14:24

It's right there all and most of them are from

14:26

the Georgia Power Company. Yeah. It's so creepy

14:28

to me sometimes too, when you're swimming in a

14:30

lake, if you start thinking about what's

14:33

beneath your feet, um,

14:35

it makes you want to get back on the boat. Sometimes you

14:38

mean like a former town, yeah town

14:40

or the woods or something. Yeah.

14:42

Car Oh well, oh

14:45

man, how do we get so off track? Okay, so

14:47

we're talking about Sparta because who has Um

14:50

he left or was drummed

14:52

out of the army, became a bandit is

14:54

captured and when he's

14:56

captured, he's taken to that gladiator school

14:59

that you talked about by a man sometimes

15:01

called this call, sometimes referred

15:04

to as Vodia. And

15:07

the thing about gladiators is thanks to

15:09

movies like Gladiator or

15:12

UM, I don't know other movies about gladiators,

15:15

Airplane, the original Airplane, UM.

15:19

You we have this conception of

15:21

gladiators is kind of like this awesome

15:23

thing. But if you were living in in Rome

15:26

around the turn of the last two millennia

15:29

ago, you

15:31

did not think of gladiators very highly.

15:33

There were some that rose to incredible

15:37

prominence, like the rock stars, sports

15:39

heroes all mixed together of today.

15:43

Gladiator could rise to that level,

15:45

but it was incredibly rare. For the most

15:47

part, they were criminals, prisoners

15:49

of war, um slaves,

15:52

and they were considered the lowliest of the low

15:55

where the the owner their owner in

15:57

this case Bodia, who owned Um Sparta

16:00

kiss It basically said the

16:03

only way for me to make money off of you is

16:05

to make you fight for these

16:08

gladiator battles. Um and

16:10

and either bet on you or license

16:13

you or something like that, and

16:16

that was it. But you were like as far as the even

16:18

the cast of slaves went, you

16:21

were at the bottom. If you were a gladiator. Yeah,

16:24

and you know gladiators, if you've seen the movies,

16:26

it's almost always depicted as a fight to the death.

16:29

That's not necessarily the case. You could kind of tap

16:31

out or if they drew blood, sometimes

16:34

that would be the end. But if they

16:36

drew blood that might also be the end of view pre

16:38

antibiotics. Um. Either

16:41

way, you might end up dead. But it wasn't necessarily

16:43

always a fight to the death. Uh.

16:45

And like you said, sometimes they would if you were

16:48

a great gladiator and a great warrior.

16:50

Um. They didn't know what your face look like, but you had this

16:53

cool mask that you were identified by, kind of like

16:55

wrestling or something like that. Or

16:57

I guess the Luca Libre are the ones who always

17:00

had the mask. But I can't

17:02

believe we did an episode on that. It's so funny. It

17:04

was a good one too. Um. But you

17:06

could be if you want

17:08

a lot and you had a cool helmet you could

17:10

be a pretty big deal to the point where,

17:13

um, you might have slaves taking care of

17:15

you, and you might lead a bit of the better

17:18

life, but you're still owned

17:20

by someone else. Yeah, you were a slave,

17:22

you were a prisoner of war, you were a criminal

17:25

um. And but when

17:28

you were taken to gladiator school, it

17:30

wasn't like you're just kept there and then you were thrown into

17:32

the to the ring to fight like you

17:34

were trained. You were put on a diet

17:37

um, you were you

17:40

were basically put through boot camp and and you

17:42

were introduced to the specifics

17:44

of certain types of gladiatorial

17:47

combat. And apparently there were a

17:49

handful of different types, and one

17:51

type of gladiator only fought one or

17:53

two other types of gladiators. And

17:56

the type that Spartacus was was a murmillo,

17:59

which meant that he fought with a helmet,

18:02

a very long um tall shield

18:04

kind of like the Roman centurions were used,

18:07

and then a short sword called

18:09

the gladius um, and that's

18:11

what he would have fought with. But there were

18:13

other kinds of gladiators too. I

18:16

ran across the super cool one, the

18:18

ready ready, ready arius,

18:21

and they would have a trident and

18:24

a net and a dagger, So

18:27

you know, like those gladiators that that like fought

18:29

with a net. I think it might have been a mad Max

18:31

or something like that. Yeah, that's

18:34

based on an actual type of gladiator

18:36

that used to fight back in the day, and again

18:39

here in the twenty one century. We can

18:41

sit there and think like, wow, this is really

18:43

interesting stuff, but you have to stop for

18:45

a second and think these people were

18:47

being forced against their will into

18:51

fights to the death, sometimes

18:54

in front of spectators, for

18:56

the sheer blood lust of

18:59

the crowds. That was it, and

19:01

you can't really forget that because it

19:04

really puts you in the mind of somebody

19:06

like Spartacus, who has been captured

19:08

as prisoner, potentially unjustly according

19:11

to an ancient text, and being

19:13

forced into this life of fighting,

19:16

sometimes to the death, for the

19:18

for the joy of the wealthy

19:21

crowds who came out to see everybody. That's

19:24

right, And that's why Spartacus looked

19:26

around one day and said, guys,

19:29

we're here at Gladiator's University,

19:32

right, And I know that sounds super cool, but

19:36

I see where the end is for all of us, and

19:38

that is dying for the entertainment

19:40

value of rich romans, and

19:43

what do you say we get a group

19:45

of us together, like maybe seventy of us,

19:48

we get the heck out of here, and

19:50

let's let's do it, guys. And they all said, that's

19:53

a great idea. I don't want to go die in a ring. So

19:56

they got together. In seventy three b c. They

19:58

hijacked a caravan that just

20:01

happened to have a bunch of gladiator weapons and armor,

20:03

and they said, hey, you know what we are, We're

20:06

a little army troop. All of a sudden, think

20:08

about the luck that that took. Like

20:10

they broke out. They overpowered

20:12

their guards with meat cleavers that they stole

20:14

from the kitchen, and um broke

20:17

out. And as they were breaking out, they ran across

20:19

a supply truck of gladiator armor

20:22

and weapons. I feeling that

20:24

was targeted. That was not the case. No, it happened

20:26

to be coming in as they were leaving, and

20:28

they were like, oh, we'll take this or else. They encountered

20:31

it on the road headed to the gladiator school,

20:33

and the timing was really fortunate.

20:37

Well, at any rate, they got all this gear

20:39

and all of a sudden they were kidded up. And

20:43

I think one of the people he was with with

20:45

with his wife, This lady sounds

20:47

very interesting. Um, Like

20:50

we said, we don't know a lot about the

20:52

actual historical record. We don't know her actual

20:54

name. But Plutarch was a writer

20:57

who wrote that Spartacus

20:59

is why it was a prophetess

21:02

who was possessed by ecstatic

21:04

frenzies that were part of the worship of

21:06

the god Dionysus, which

21:09

you know, you know what that means. She she

21:11

liked a party. She did. That was

21:13

the party cult for sure, and she apparently

21:16

was one of the priestesses of this cult

21:19

in Thrace. She was thracy and as well

21:21

ecstatic frenzies. Yeah, all though that

21:23

was cool. Um, But

21:27

she her name apparently is just totally

21:29

lost. No one has any idea what her

21:32

name is or what became of her. They assumed that

21:34

she probably died alongside with Sparta kissed.

21:37

But um, she being a

21:39

prophetess, a priestess, apparently

21:42

foretold his rise

21:45

to power even while he

21:47

was a slave in the gladiator camp, like

21:49

she lived with him there. Um, I

21:52

guess while he was sleeping one one night

21:54

or day or whatever, a snake coiled

21:56

itself around his head. And she

21:59

was like, well, that doesn't happen every day, and I'm

22:01

pretty sure that Dionysus has something to do with

22:03

this. So my husband's going to be pretty

22:06

important at some point, but he's also going

22:08

to have a very unfortunate end too that

22:10

the snake for tells. And it turns out she was

22:12

right, that's right. And then she said, so

22:14

I'm gonna go have an orgy with all these people and

22:17

drink some wine with some goat goat

22:20

fellas. So, uh, these

22:23

these dudes, this little kind of for lack

22:26

of a better term, battalion, all of a sudden they

22:28

start to train for combat.

22:31

They're near Mount Vesuvius, which

22:33

don't don't be afraid of the volcano everyone. This

22:35

is about a hundred years before that happened. Isn't

22:37

that creepy though? To think, like this historic thing

22:40

took place and they were tramping all over Vesuvius

22:42

to have they had no idea what was coming,

22:45

just like a century from then. Mhm,

22:48

I I don't know. I think it's amazing, but

22:52

not Vesuvius at this time. What

22:54

we're saying is it was lovely and it was lush,

22:57

and that was you could farm there. It was very fertile,

23:00

was covered with vines, and they

23:02

were down their training. And eventually Rome

23:05

takes a little bit of notice, although

23:07

they weren't seriously worried yet.

23:11

Uh. They were hiding out and they were training. And

23:14

one of his co leaders, this guy Crixus,

23:16

who kind of factors in as one of his big co

23:19

heads of state. I guess, and uh,

23:22

oh an a mouse as

23:26

No, I think you had it the first time. There was like an extra

23:28

syllable in there. Really, Yeah,

23:31

but the the way you said at the second time

23:33

sounds better. Well, we'll just stick to that.

23:36

Uh. They would go around and raid

23:39

uh for supplies. They would recruit

23:41

slaves eventually, and

23:43

we'll see later. They got so popular

23:46

that they could even get non slaves to join up

23:48

in the rebellion. And Rome

23:50

was not super worried yet. They kind of

23:52

heard about what was going on, but they were busy. They

23:54

were fighting in Spain, they were fighting

23:56

Crete, they were fighting in Southeast Europe,

23:59

and this little ragtime group of

24:01

former slaves wasn't that big of a deal.

24:04

No. Less so the fact that they were

24:06

fighting elsewhere like Spain and Crete, that meant

24:09

that their greatest military

24:11

leaders and those military leaders,

24:13

armies were away, they weren't

24:15

in Italy, and like you said at

24:17

the time, they weren't taking Spartacus in his his

24:20

runaway slave band seriously

24:22

at all. But they did, you know, take enough

24:24

notice that they sent a praetor there. And

24:26

a prator is like a very high

24:29

up elected official right under council,

24:31

which is I think the highest elected official

24:33

in ancient Rome. So they were really super

24:36

high up. And actually they might have been laterals

24:39

to the council's I'm not sure, but

24:41

it was a very important person, but I get

24:44

the impression that he was a

24:46

very um kind of low on

24:49

the scale of

24:51

important people, because they sent

24:54

him with a few a few Roman soldiers

24:56

and said, hey, when you get to Vesuvius,

24:58

just recruit some nicals to to go

25:01

fight this this band of runaway

25:03

slaves and be back by dinner

25:05

time. Please. Yeah. It

25:07

was you know, I love

25:09

the National Guard, not knocking them, but it kind of reminded

25:12

me of, you know, sort

25:14

of sending in the National Guard to take care of something

25:17

rather than the Marines storming the beach. It's

25:19

basically the story of John Rambo in First

25:21

Blood. I trust me, I thought

25:23

of that more than what R

25:25

I P. Brian Dennehy. By the way, when

25:29

like last week, what, how

25:32

did I not hear that? I think

25:34

it's just sort of been under the radar with everything going

25:36

on. Was it from coronavirus? No,

25:39

just I think he was like in his early eighties

25:41

and just just passed away. R I P. For

25:43

sure he was good, But I definitely, I definitely

25:45

thought of Rambo a lot while

25:47

I was reading this. The difference is was

25:50

that Spartacus had a team um

25:53

to aid in his uprising, and Rambo was

25:56

of course a one man army in a team

25:58

if you will. But at

26:00

any rate, they didn't send the best of the best because

26:02

they're all busy. Glabor's

26:04

little army. They they said, you know what, We're

26:07

not even gonna attack Spartacus. We'll just

26:09

block off the route up to Vesuvius.

26:12

We're gonna pitch our tents, we're gonna

26:15

hang out and get drunk, and he's

26:17

gonna starve to death and that's

26:19

kind of gonna be the end of it. So we think, yeah,

26:22

you said, Glabor glabors that praytor

26:24

um. His name was Claudius

26:27

Glaber. He sounds like an inept kind

26:29

of person that you would send to take care of. I'll

26:31

send Glabor exactly. His

26:35

name is just too close to Glaban, I

26:37

think so so Um Glaber

26:40

said, he yeah, it's exactly what you said. He

26:42

posted a couple of guys on the road

26:44

to Vesuvius, the only road in or out up

26:46

the mountain. Um. And then the rest

26:48

of the group is at camp, and so

26:51

um Spartacus in his band are.

26:54

They know that they can't get down this road, but they're

26:56

also not about to starve at the hands of a guy named

26:58

Glaber. So they actually fashioned

27:01

rope and rope ladder out of the vines

27:03

that are growing up on Vesuvius, and they

27:05

climbed down the mountain to a different

27:08

spot, and they come up behind them.

27:11

The guys who are guarding the road, kill

27:14

them, sneak into the Roman camp, kill

27:16

all of them while they're bathing and sleeping,

27:19

and have done two things. They

27:22

just wiped out the soldiers

27:25

of a praetor a very high elected official,

27:28

and they just captured a Roman

27:30

camp with all of its supplies, all

27:33

of its weapons, all of its armory um.

27:36

And these were really

27:38

two really big first

27:41

strikes of fuel allow

27:43

that and I will not.

27:47

And it was a really big deal because you

27:49

know, word gets around and for the first

27:52

time slaves in Italy

27:55

we're thinking, Wow, there's

27:57

actually someplace we could

27:59

go. It's not it's not like the

28:02

in America where there were slaves in the south

28:04

mainly and they could escape to the north. It

28:07

was just like that all over Italy. So they had no

28:10

uh, they had nowhere to go. They had no safe harbor, no

28:12

quarter. If I'm allowed, I

28:15

will allow that as well. And

28:18

they said, wow, we got a place we can go. We can

28:20

go join up with this guy Spartacus. Um

28:23

he's out there sneaking up on on

28:25

glabers and killing them while

28:28

he's taking a bath. And then

28:30

like that sounds pretty good to me. I want to get in on the

28:32

fun. Yeah. Um. I don't

28:34

know if it was this historian Irwin

28:37

from um Murray State or

28:40

if it was part of the article, but somebody says

28:42

at some point um that

28:45

and I'm sorry, not Irwin, Aaron Irvine is the name

28:47

of the historian, but somebody says at some point that those

28:49

slaves because they had nowhere

28:52

to go, like you were saying, but also because

28:54

of the way that slave uprisings

28:56

were brutally dealt with that they

28:59

very frequently didn't even require supervision.

29:02

That they would Um that

29:05

there were whole rural areas and towns

29:08

that Spartacus was moving around to um

29:11

where the slaves vastly outnumbered

29:13

the freed people. And Um

29:17

they were able to sustain that disproportionate

29:20

um population distribution because

29:23

the slaves in Rome had such

29:26

little hope of any different life

29:29

than what they had. And so yeah,

29:31

like you're saying, Spartacus provided hope

29:34

and something different, and Um, all of a sudden,

29:36

his little ragtag band of slaves and

29:38

their slave uprising suddenly became

29:40

a very large slave uprising. And

29:43

in a really short time they attracted

29:45

something like forty thousand slaves

29:48

from these rural areas up around Vesuvius

29:51

and in northern Italy I think northeastern Italy.

29:53

Um that they would just run away

29:56

and now they had a place to go, I e. Spartacusses

29:59

camp and they would join up there and show

30:01

up with like kitchen knives and farm

30:04

tools and stuff like that, and they would be trained in combat.

30:06

And now all of a sudden, it goes from this

30:08

ragtag band of gladiator slaves

30:11

who had escaped to something

30:13

that looked a lot like a actual rebellion.

30:16

And that's what Rome started to think that

30:18

maybe they're dealing with. Yeah,

30:20

and I get the ideas around this time that sparka

30:23

spartacus becomes kind of an idea um,

30:26

even more so than an actual human being, because

30:30

you know, when the word is getting around, it's

30:32

not like the newspaper's head front page

30:34

headlines or anything. You get these whispers

30:37

and you get these stories and uh, the spark

30:39

of hope among the slaves, and this

30:41

idea that there is this rebellion and he's

30:44

a great boss. He splits everything right

30:46

down the middle, and he's not some awful

30:48

leader. He divides all the spoils equally,

30:51

and he's getting non slaves to join

30:54

up. Because even if you're

30:56

like a you know, you might

30:58

not be a slave, but if you're a very poor farmhand

31:01

or something, uh, it might

31:03

look appealing all of a sudden because

31:05

you're not part of the elite Roman kind

31:07

of upper echelon class. Yeah,

31:10

so the idea

31:12

that he was splitting the spoils with people like

31:14

that's huge, and apparently that stands

31:16

up that um. Basically all

31:19

of the ancient sources agree like this

31:21

guy took all his plunder and distributed.

31:23

He didn't keep it fro himself. He didn't turn himself into

31:26

a king UM. And he

31:28

was running around freeing slaves. And

31:30

that you know, that's one of the reasons why he he

31:32

did, like you said, become a hero or an

31:35

idea, and a hero that's still to

31:37

the state group's kind of latch onto. So

31:40

he's attracting more and more people. UM.

31:42

One of the things, one of the ugly truths about

31:44

this is that when they were going around to

31:46

these small towns, in these rural areas,

31:49

freeing slaves, getting them to join

31:51

their ranks. UM, there was also

31:54

a lot of plundering going on, and

31:56

they were not merciful with

31:58

the slave owners who own these

32:00

big enormous um estates

32:04

that they were plundering. They would um

32:06

engage in rape, they would engage in

32:08

torture, um, they would engage

32:10

in murder. And from what

32:12

I saw, it wasn't Spartacus

32:15

that was doing that, that he

32:17

actually commanded against that, but

32:20

that his army

32:22

had a mind of its own in a lot of

32:25

cases, and that they would they would be pretty

32:27

merciless and brutal with them

32:29

the freed people. Who who's stuff

32:32

they were taking? Yeah, I

32:34

mean I'm sure they were like, no,

32:36

you're rape in pillage. That's what you do, right, That's what

32:38

That's how it is right now. Um,

32:41

even in the movie, Spartacus he uh

32:44

he refuses to take part in that. So

32:47

there are a few things you know that that Kubrick

32:50

Um he didn't write the screenplay. That was actually Dalton

32:52

Trumbo, but he uh he

32:55

he had that in the movie. So there were bits of truth throughout

32:58

for sure. So, oh

33:00

this is going on. Rome finally is

33:03

like, all right, we gotta really deal with this

33:05

guy. Can someone can someone please

33:07

go kill Spartacus for me? Right?

33:10

Slabor glabor sucked so bad, you

33:12

guys. We gotta get a non glabor

33:14

in there to take care of business. And they did. They sent

33:17

um Publius Varennius, and

33:20

he was another prator. So they're

33:22

sending like pretty important guys um

33:25

along with their soldiers, and um

33:28

Varennius. He was almost

33:31

nearly captured, which would have been enormous.

33:33

He was so close to being captured that

33:36

I believe Spartacus himself he

33:38

stole the guy's horse. He got his his horse

33:41

and Varennius Publius,

33:44

Publius, Varennius um. And

33:47

that was a huge black

33:49

eye to Rome that like not

33:51

only as as this you know, band

33:54

of runaway slaves.

33:57

You know it will like able to

33:59

engage Rome in battle, but

34:02

he stole your horse and you're insignia and

34:04

and almost got your guy. That was

34:07

a big deal. And so all these these

34:09

victories. With each victory,

34:11

spartacus legend just grows, and

34:14

he's able to attract more and more people.

34:16

Um. I think within a year that UM

34:19

historian Kenneth Check says

34:21

within a year, maybe a little more than a year, there

34:24

was as many, possibly as a hundred

34:27

and twenty five thousand freed

34:29

slaves or slaves, escaped

34:32

slaves and commoders um who had

34:34

joined spartacus army. A hundred

34:36

and twenty five thousand. And he started

34:39

with seventy gladiators

34:41

the year before. Yeah, seventy, not

34:43

seventy, just to reiterate,

34:46

yeah, no, that's worth saying. So

34:49

spring of seventy two, b c uh,

34:52

Spartacus has these troops. Some

34:55

of them stay in the south with his buddy Crixus,

34:58

And then he said the rest of you come with me. We're the head

35:00

towards the Alps because

35:02

it's lovely this time of year. And

35:05

I think at the time, who would

35:07

they These guys have great names. Uh,

35:10

Rome sent armies led by Lucius

35:12

Gellius public Publicola

35:18

and Neus Cornelius

35:21

Lentulus Claudianus. Those

35:23

are great names. Wow.

35:26

Those guys were councils, so they were

35:28

the highest elected officials

35:31

in Rome. Yell

35:33

of as many as like twenty guys

35:36

put together like this is serious

35:38

business at that at this time to go take care

35:40

of Spartacus. Yeah. I think when he almost

35:43

captured Varennius, that was that really

35:45

caught Rome's attention for the first time.

35:47

Um. Unfortunately, these two councils

35:50

what were their names again, Chuck, let's

35:54

just call him public Coola and

35:57

claude Anius. Okay, fine, Um,

35:59

they were no better equipped to fight

36:02

uh Spartacus either. I think

36:04

by this time he had he hadn't come

36:06

close to people yet,

36:09

but he was up to forty thou and

36:12

both of um, both

36:15

of the yeah, peaches in

36:17

herb nice Um. They underestimated

36:20

how many troops he'd had. They also were

36:22

unaware that he had wintered

36:25

UM in the I think the north

36:27

of Italy and had spent the winter

36:29

stealing horses and building up a cavalry

36:32

unit, which they had no idea. He had

36:34

this UM and one other thing he

36:36

put to good use. So remember this guy's

36:39

potentially a Roman army veteran

36:41

from Thrace, which means he's familiar with guerrilla

36:44

warfare that the Thracians practiced

36:47

and conventional warfare which

36:49

the Romans practiced. And he's

36:51

like commanding tens of thousands of troops

36:53

to to great effect built a cavalry.

36:57

And he also so like some of those commoners

36:59

who joined up who weren't slaves, but

37:01

they were not well off and they wanted

37:03

to fight the fight the power, so they

37:05

joined UM. They were usually like

37:07

herdsman or shepherds or something like that from

37:10

local areas who knew the areas

37:12

really well. So he used them as scouts

37:15

and um peaches and herb had

37:17

no idea that this, again,

37:20

this band of runaways slaves had turned

37:22

into an actual like legit army

37:25

under the command of somebody who knew what they were doing,

37:27

and he ate both of them alive. Yeah,

37:30

well it actually was, UM. It

37:33

was kind of tough. Because Peaches went down there to

37:36

the south where Crixus was and

37:38

killed him with a lot of the rebels.

37:41

And then Herb came in from

37:44

the north of Spartacus, where he was headed toward

37:46

the Alps. Uh came you

37:48

know, he was ahead of him, so he came south from

37:50

the north and he

37:53

came in, and Spartacus was basically

37:55

trapped between these two armies

37:57

that had better equipment, better weaponry,

37:59

better armor, more munitions

38:02

and food and water and everything and wine. And

38:06

they had no idea that this cavalry was waiting

38:08

for him, that he had been working on. It was kind of his little

38:11

Uh, kind of his little trojan horse in

38:13

a way, and they had never

38:15

seen anything like it. And he beat Peaches,

38:18

I think, or was that Herb. Now

38:20

am all confused? He beat Herb. Okay,

38:23

he beat Herb and got all of the

38:25

supplies that Herb's army had, and

38:29

then it was it was on in a

38:31

big, big way. So I misspoke.

38:33

By this time, yes, he probably had close

38:36

to people

38:39

in his army, but they had

38:41

split off because Crixus, who

38:43

was one of the gladiators that you just mentioned,

38:46

one of the original gladiators, he broke out of gladiator

38:48

school with and who basically co operated

38:52

the army with him. Um.

38:54

He apparently wanted to split off and

38:57

take it straight to Rome, wanted to attack

38:59

Rome. Him and Sparta Kisses

39:02

whole thing was like, no, no, no, let's go north

39:04

to Thrace, out of Italy. We

39:06

can be we can build our army up even

39:08

better there and either just hang out

39:11

in Thrace and be great or maybe

39:13

then we can come back to Italy. And they had a

39:15

disagreement, they had a falling out, um,

39:17

and they split up, and crix Has took thirty

39:19

thousand men. And like you said, I don't

39:21

remember if it was Peaches or Herb

39:24

who got him, but the Crixus

39:26

and his men were killed, but simultaneously,

39:30

even though Sparta kiss later beat that both

39:33

of those guys, he had just lost thirty

39:35

thousand of his troops, which is a pretty

39:37

pretty big troop reduction, especially

39:40

basically overnight. Yeah,

39:42

but he's still won in the end. In that battle,

39:44

he uh, he fought very bravely.

39:47

He rushed either Peaches or Herb,

39:50

broke them down, captured their supplies, and

39:53

then we don't know for sure if he defeated Herb

39:56

or not. Or if they just retreated, but

39:59

at any rate, that was sort of the end of them,

40:01

and they were allowed to go onto the Alps. Right,

40:04

So you want to take another break,

40:07

Yeah, let's take our last break and we'll we'll

40:09

wind it up here with the last stand. Okay,

40:29

change

40:34

to Chuck.

40:40

So Sparta Kiss is not only now beaten

40:43

prators that the Romans sent, he's

40:46

beaten councils in their armies, and

40:49

Rome is full lipped out. I don't know

40:51

if they knew that Crixus, who

40:53

by the way, was a celt which I find immensely

40:56

interesting, but Crixus

40:58

Um, I don't know if they knew that he was coming

41:00

toward Rome and that they just narrowly avoided

41:03

being attacked by that contingent.

41:05

But it was definitely on their mind that Rome

41:08

was left unprotected because remember,

41:10

the best generals and the best their

41:13

best armies were in Spain and

41:15

Crete Um, and there

41:17

was a really really angry group

41:20

of um impoverished

41:23

and escaped slaves who

41:26

were who had assembled themselves

41:28

into a pretty respectable army UM

41:31

possibly coming toward Rome. Yeah,

41:34

and Rome was on thin ice at this point. I

41:36

mean, they were still super powerful, obviously, but

41:38

um, they make a good point in this article

41:41

that they kind of relied on the fact that everyone

41:43

thought they were great and was super scared

41:45

of them, and they had these big, scary armies. And

41:48

once they started getting these defeats, and

41:50

once they started getting defeats, especially at

41:53

the hands of a former slave who

41:55

was leading this kind of rag tag team that

41:58

was revolting against them, there's

42:00

a little chink in that armor. And Spartacus

42:03

is about they're winning battles, and everyone hears about

42:05

this, and that's a big big deal to Rome.

42:08

All of a sudden, they seem like they're defeatable. Yeah,

42:11

which if you are, if

42:13

your society includes slaves and

42:15

the slaves are kept in line by the idea that you

42:18

were undefeatable, that's

42:20

right. And so they're there. They seem like

42:22

they're defeatable. Now they're best

42:24

armies in generals are away and

42:27

they couldn't really find anyone to

42:30

really take care of Spartacus until this guy

42:32

stepped up. He was a wealthy

42:34

prater named Marcus Crassis, and

42:37

he said, you know what, I've got the dough and

42:39

I'm a pretty brutal leader in my own

42:42

right. Maybe you've heard of me, and so

42:44

I'm gonna finance this army and I'm gonna

42:46

go kill that guy. And so if there's

42:48

a villain in this story, it is Crassis.

42:50

He was a terrible, terrible person, possibly

42:53

the richest person Rome has ever seen. Um.

42:56

I read somewhere that he he

42:58

would go to places that had caught fire

43:01

with his own personal fire brigade and

43:03

would negotiate with the owner

43:05

of the house or whatever um

43:08

to buy it. And if the if they would negotiate

43:11

at just an extremely cheap rate

43:14

to sell their house that was on fire, then

43:17

Crassies or Crassis would have his fire

43:19

brigade put it out. If they didn't negotiate

43:22

or sell, then he would just leave with his fire

43:24

brigade and let it burn. Here's that kind of

43:26

guys is like, hey man, this

43:28

place is on fire, and I'm offering to buy

43:30

it from you. Right, it's a fire sale. You should

43:33

you should take this. Yeah. But if

43:35

they wouldn't, if they'd be like, no, this is completely

43:37

unacceptable and immoral, he'd be like, all right, see

43:39

you later, and his fire brigae would leave. That's

43:42

just not good stuff. That's the kind of thing that

43:44

if you do that people continue to talk

43:46

about it in a negative like two thousand years

43:48

later on some dumb podcasts. So Crassis,

43:51

you also might recognize his name. He was part of

43:53

the first triumvirate with Um,

43:55

Pompey and Caesar. He

43:58

was the third guy. Remember

44:00

that name, so Um. So Crassus

44:03

steps up and he says, you know what, my father

44:06

got a triumph, which is basically like a

44:08

military parade for

44:10

a great military victory. And I've always been

44:13

envious. I want mine. I'm gonna

44:15

make mine the defeat of Spartacus.

44:17

I'm gonna go get them. I'm gonna finance this army.

44:20

I'm gonna go pick up some of the other armies

44:22

that have been defeated and kind of left scattered

44:24

around Italy and reassemble them. And

44:27

there was one in particular, I think

44:29

it was um, the army

44:31

of the Praetor, who was almost captured

44:33

Verennius. Some of his people ran

44:36

away, and Crassus got

44:38

them together, I believe five hundred

44:40

people who had been accused of desertion

44:43

and running away during battle. And

44:46

he brought out of the old steamer

44:48

trunk, an old technique for keeping

44:51

your troops in line. Called decimation chuck,

44:53

which is a word that we've misused for years

44:55

on this podcast. But this is the real deal

44:58

that he was doing. Yeah, and

45:00

I don't think we've been missusing it for years. I think it's

45:03

now part of a popular

45:06

terminology, just not necessarily

45:08

reduced by ten. Okay, fair enough. But what he

45:10

did was he said, okay, all of you five

45:13

break up into fifty groups of ten, and

45:16

in every group, all ten of you draw lots.

45:18

Whoever draws the shortest lot gets executed.

45:20

And he executed fifty out of five

45:23

hundred deserters in front

45:25

of his troops to basically

45:27

say, hey, let's get that moral

45:29

up everybody. This is what happens to you if you

45:31

don't fight valiantly. And that was the kind

45:33

of leader that he was. So he's

45:36

a real jerk in business, in

45:38

a real jerk on the battlefield too, even

45:40

with his own troops, and a very

45:42

selfish lover from what I hear he really was.

45:44

He'd be like, well that's it for me, good luck to yourself.

45:47

So he had a real be in his bonnet to get

45:50

that victory parade. He goes and

45:52

chases Spartacus all over Italy and

45:55

there was some infighting going on, which is

45:58

what can happen a lot of times in a rebellion, and

46:00

if you don't keep everyone's spirits up. So that kind

46:02

of weakened his army a little bit. And

46:04

so in a last ditch effort, Spartacus

46:06

said, you know what we need to do is we need

46:08

to go kill Crassis in front of everybody.

46:11

And that's that'll do the trick. If everyone seas

46:14

Crassis has gone, you cut off that head,

46:16

maybe another one will not grow up in its place.

46:19

Uh. And that didn't work out for Spartacus.

46:22

He was actually cut down in battle. His army

46:24

was finally defeated. Uh.

46:26

They hunted down all six thousand of

46:29

the survivors of the army and crucified them.

46:32

Uh. He was not himself crucified like

46:34

in the movie Spartacus. And

46:36

there was never that great moment in the

46:39

movie that I'm Spartacus moment that never

46:41

really happened in real life. Unfortunately, Um,

46:43

they never found his body, which is sort of a a

46:46

sad end to this. Um

46:50

to a leader who did some pretty great things for a little

46:52

while, but not really though, because I read he

46:55

was last seen he was really

46:57

close to Crassis. He

47:00

was headed to Crasses to kill him himself,

47:02

and he I think killed two centurions

47:05

in hand to hand combat on his way

47:07

to Crasses before he was swarmed

47:10

on like Hollywood style and cut

47:12

down by like just a mob

47:14

of dudes who overwhelmed them.

47:16

Which is, it's not a sad end. No, if you're living

47:18

by the sword and dying by the sword, that's the way

47:21

to go for sure. Okay,

47:23

I bet you he would have preferred to kill Crasses. I'll

47:25

give you that. But if he was never faded to

47:28

kill Crasses, if that snake coiled on his

47:30

head and fore told that he would never kill Crasses,

47:33

that's the way to go. Well.

47:35

In the end, Uh, he has gone.

47:37

His rebellion is squashed, but some good

47:39

comes out of it. Rome kind

47:42

of says, you know what, this taught

47:44

us a great lesson, which is maybe

47:47

we should listen to the lower class a little

47:49

bit more. It wasn't some huge

47:51

sweeping reform change or anything like that.

47:54

I don't want to like sugarcoat

47:56

it, but there were a number of reforms

47:59

that were passed that did strengthen the voice of

48:01

the people as a whole, and they

48:03

had a little bit more say, in their government because

48:06

they didn't want another Spartacus to come along. Yeah.

48:09

And then over the years, like many thousands

48:11

of years later, like I said, he was kind

48:13

of held up as like this hero, this ideal,

48:16

so like the abolitionist movement in the United

48:18

States held him up as a hero because he

48:20

was known to free slaves. That was how he assembled

48:23

his army. And he wasn't necessarily freeing

48:25

slaves for the ideal of ending slavery.

48:28

He was freeing slaves to help build up his army.

48:30

Um, but I'm sure there was a certain amount of like

48:33

this is a good thing that these slaves are no

48:35

longer slaves when they're you know with

48:37

me that he must have entertained

48:40

at least. And then later on, like you said,

48:42

Dalton Trumbo wrote the script

48:45

for Um, the nineteen sixty

48:47

movie directed by Kubrick on Spartacus,

48:50

and Dalton Trumbo was blacklisted from Hollywood

48:52

because he was a communist

48:55

or he wouldn't name names I can't remember. And

48:58

Dalton Trumbo wrote that script based on a

49:00

novel written by a guy named Howard Fast

49:03

who had written the novel in jail. Because he wouldn't

49:05

name names on the McCarthy hearings.

49:08

UM, and so Spartaca's kind of became

49:10

like a hero of Marxists because

49:13

he freed slates. He overthrew the

49:15

oppressors, but he also took

49:17

the oppressor's wealth and redistributed

49:19

it among you know, the lower classes,

49:22

which Marxists are just bonkers for

49:26

pretty interesting stuff. Uh,

49:29

there's plenty more about sparta kiss, gladiators,

49:31

all that stuff. This is really thick

49:34

stuff, and this is stuff you should know. It's not what we

49:36

do. We've just kind of given overview. So if

49:38

this floated your boat at all, go look up

49:41

Spartaca's start reading on him

49:43

and you will be fascinated. And since

49:45

I said that it's time for listener mail, I'm

49:50

gonna call this wastewater operator

49:54

or a former now retired wastewater

49:56

operators. Hey, guys, just finished listening

49:58

to the episode on wastewater treatment with a critical ear.

50:01

Having worked for over twenty years, is both

50:03

a w W lab analysts and operator.

50:05

While I understand you were aiming for the least knowledgeable

50:08

common denominator in your audience, I feel like you

50:10

did a disservice to all wastewater

50:13

treatment plants and their employees by failing to mention

50:15

that every treatment plant in America

50:17

must abide by strict regulatory permits

50:19

issued under the Clean Water Act tailored

50:22

to the needs of the of these specific

50:24

facilities. Influent, your

50:27

words make it sound like we and operations made

50:29

our own decisions as to how clean the water,

50:32

Uh, how how clean is clean enough?

50:34

And that cannot be further from the truth. UM.

50:37

I want to stop here because I don't feel like we did that, did

50:39

we? We certainly didn't mean to. I

50:41

don't think that we were just like you

50:43

know, it's up to text who's running the levers

50:45

to decide what's clean enough. If

50:48

we did, Sorry, we definitely don't think that.

50:50

No, we didn't think that at all. Uh. In my position

50:53

as analysts, I perform an average performed in

50:55

average of thirty thousand standard

50:57

laboratory tests per year to maintain permit compliance

51:00

and support operations. That number increased

51:02

dramatically when there are operational upsets, process

51:05

changes, influence variations,

51:07

etcetera. In addition, operators collect

51:09

and analyzed process control samples several

51:11

times per shift for the same reason. Um,

51:14

I think we knew that stuff was going on, right, Yeah,

51:17

I don't want to sound defensive, but do this person

51:20

listen or just say, oh, I see this title.

51:22

Here's all the things are going to get wrong. Now I

51:25

think they listened. I wish

51:27

to thank you for attempting to educate the public

51:29

on the vital role clean water and sewage

51:31

treatment play and the health and prosperity of the United

51:34

States. I firmly believe this is what truly

51:36

makes America great. You don't hear people

51:39

saying they need vaccinations and antibiotics

51:41

to fend off water borne illness when visiting

51:43

the United States. Uh. Sorry to rant

51:46

On, I appreciate your time, Thanks for reading,

51:48

and please put out a big thank you to all wastewater

51:50

treatment operators about whom

51:52

nobody is paying attention, but whom everyone

51:54

needs. And that is from

51:57

uh. Anne Danielson, retired operator

51:59

and analyst. Thanks a lot, and that's good stuff.

52:02

And yes, agreed. If everyone doesn't

52:04

know that we need waste water treatment people

52:06

and they're not paying attention,

52:09

so hats rop to you and your colleagues

52:12

from us. Agreed. Yes, I know that there's

52:14

a lot of work and analysis

52:16

and testing, and if we didn't

52:18

hammer that home enough, then we are now yeah,

52:20

Well, if we missed the mark on something, or

52:23

you just wanted to add something, or just

52:25

want to say, hey, you guys nailed it, nailed

52:28

it. We love that You can get in touch

52:30

with this via email, Wrap it up, spanking on

52:32

the bottom, and send it off to Stuff podcast

52:35

at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff

52:40

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52:42

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