0:01

Welcome to Stuff you should know from

0:03

how Stuff Works dot com.

0:11

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

0:13

Clark. There's Charles W. Chuke Bryant. There's

0:15

Jerry. Happy New Year. You

0:18

are too tall to be a Rockett, aren't you? Just

0:20

barely? Jerry and I can

0:23

be rockets and you

0:25

can't. No, it's true,

0:27

which is a shame, because you have the gams I

0:31

do. Actually, I've got pretty decent legs. You

0:33

know, at least my calves are all right.

0:36

What no thighs they're a little

0:38

tree trunky for for my taste.

0:41

Yeah, I've got a bit of

0:43

like a fertility idle thing going

0:46

on, like up tour the hips and all

0:48

that. M Yeah, well it's because of

0:50

all those squats. I was not expecting

0:52

to talk about this about your gams. Yeah,

0:55

well, I'll talk about my legs all day

0:57

long. Well, let's hear it. They're shapely,

1:00

Okay, they're they're

1:02

not. I gained all my weight between my waist

1:05

and my chin. Uh huh,

1:07

Like I don't. If you looked at

1:09

my legs in my arms, you'd be like, think, I weighs a

1:11

hundred and sixty pounds

1:16

and then the rest of me comes along to bust

1:18

that myth step

1:20

aside, I still have a nice little fanny.

1:23

Sure everybody knows

1:25

that. Sorry listeners in the UK, Oh

1:28

yeah, that means something different over there, doesn't. It's

1:31

just so dainty and nice

1:33

that a little, a little five

1:35

year old kids can say fanny. In the United

1:37

States, it's just the

1:40

Brits who are sick ghos. But this

1:42

isn't about our gams. This

1:44

is about a dance troup, A legendary

1:47

dance troop. Yeah, about

1:50

as legendary as a dance troup can possibly

1:52

be. Are the rockheads? I think so?

1:55

I just said that sentence like, Yota,

1:59

can you do the voice? No? No,

2:01

no, not even going to

2:03

try. But this totally surprised

2:06

me digging into the research on this

2:08

to to learn that the

2:10

legendary Rockets of

2:13

New York City and Radio City Music Hall

2:15

are not from New York City. No,

2:18

they're not. Where are they from? Chuck? Did

2:20

you know this? I had no idea.

2:22

Now, yeah, so shout out to St.

2:24

Louis. Yeah.

2:27

Uh. They were founded in the nineteen

2:29

twenties five, to be exact, in

2:31

St. Louis, Missouri as the

2:33

Rockets, the St.

2:36

Louis Rockets, which I think they

2:38

were trying to be a basketball team. Maybe St.

2:40

Louis Rockets. Sure. Yeah. There was a choreographer

2:43

named Russell Markert, which

2:46

is uh, I kept wanting the same market, but

2:48

that is an r. And he

2:51

founded them, like you said in and

2:54

he was he was inspired by a

2:56

British dance troupe

2:58

named the Tiller Girls, which

3:01

was founded in the by

3:03

John Tiller, and it was kind of

3:05

a similar idea. He saw these Tiller Girls and he was

3:07

like, I want a high kicking,

3:10

glamorous theatrical

3:14

dance troupe of my own. Yeah,

3:16

so I'm gonna rip it off. He did. Actually,

3:18

so, John Tiller is is um widely

3:21

acknowledged as the the creator

3:24

of what's called precision dance, which

3:26

is where you have a bunch of dancers who

3:29

are really highly trained,

3:31

really athletic, and really

3:33

precise in their movements, UM

3:36

that can move in such unison

3:39

that that you take a number, like

3:41

a number of different dancers and they basically become

3:44

one thing that's

3:46

that can do things that an individual

3:48

dancer can't do. And that's precision

3:51

dance technique. And John Tyler literally

3:53

invented it. With I think four ten year old

3:55

girls in the eighteen nineties, and

3:58

um, he came up with some further

4:00

refinements to it, like when you put

4:02

your hand around the waists of the

4:05

people on either side of you, it kind

4:07

of lends to the unity of the whole thing. Um

4:10

And and uh, Russell

4:12

Maker Marcert saw this and was like, this

4:14

is amazing. If I can get some

4:17

American girls with longer legs to

4:19

kick higher, it'll knock everybody's

4:21

socks off. That's a quote, by the way.

4:23

Yeah, and there's a there's something to that,

4:26

that synchronicity of for

4:28

me for movement and sound that

4:31

just knocks me out every time. Um,

4:34

when I go and see a a choir,

4:37

what's like a hundred people singing together and

4:39

high kicking, or or

4:41

a symphony, just the not

4:43

only the sound, but the movement when

4:45

you watch a symphony, that's a big part of it for me.

4:48

Uh, forget a coral symphony,

4:51

Like I'm on the floor weeping

4:55

if you take me to a coral symphony.

4:57

But there's something about that precision of

5:00

of all these people together. It's

5:02

just really like, I don't know what

5:05

it is about it. I mean, it's Uh, it's

5:07

a collective voice or collective movement, but

5:09

it's that precision that really just gets gets

5:11

me every time for sure. Well that's what the Rockets

5:14

are known for. It's their their trade

5:17

is precision dance. They're as good as it gets

5:19

with it. Although the tailor girls are

5:21

definitely still around, they still have Christmas

5:23

specials themselves, um, and

5:26

they're doing their thing for sure. So it's

5:29

it's not just an off hand thing to say

5:31

the Rockets are as good as it comes, as

5:33

good as they come in in precision dance, because

5:35

the tailer girls would probably say, um,

5:38

I would dispute that statement, but they

5:40

would say it with a British accent, right,

5:43

I just be that statement. Uh.

5:47

So they were not as tall back then. The

5:49

original height requirements were

5:51

between five two and five

5:54

six and a half, and now

5:56

they went, will take your tallest dancer

5:59

and make them our shortest ancer, because

6:02

I guess it's just I don't know, I'm

6:04

not sure why they did that, but now it's between

6:07

five six and five ten and a half.

6:10

And it is not because they want to exclude

6:13

people or any

6:15

or discriminate against people who are too

6:17

tall or they feel too short. But

6:19

it's so they can just all look.

6:22

It's an optical illusion, so they can

6:24

all look the same height because they take

6:26

that five ft ten and a half inch dancer,

6:30

although they don't have to be that tall, but they take whoever

6:32

their tallest. Answer is put her

6:34

right in the middle and then just stagger it

6:36

out from there, and in the end everyone

6:38

looks. It's weird. Everyone

6:40

looks to be the same height even though they're not. I

6:42

don't understand how this works. It's just I saw

6:45

so many different places that I'm convinced

6:47

that it does work. I just don't

6:49

get the illusion

6:51

of how how it works. Well, I

6:53

think over four inches

6:56

and thirty six women, it's

6:59

just so nut of differences as

7:01

you scale down that it

7:03

would take I guess a

7:05

an extraordinary human to be like

7:08

that woman is an inch and a half

7:10

taller than the one five people away

7:12

from her. You know, I got

7:14

you. Yeah, I guess

7:16

that's true. So you're just a

7:18

normal person, is what I'm saying.

7:21

Yeah, you should feel good about

7:23

that. I fall for that optical illusion every time.

7:25

Yeah, everybody should. Um.

7:28

So they started with the Missouri Rockets

7:30

with just sixteen women, and

7:33

like I said, now, they have thirty six and

7:35

they debuted in St. Louis, but then went to New York

7:38

to perform Rain or Shine on

7:40

Broadway, and that is where

7:43

a man named s L. Roxy that

7:45

was his nickname, uh Rothafel,

7:49

which is an interesting name. That's where he

7:51

saw them and said, Hey, I

7:54

gotta get in on this. This is amazing. Yeah.

7:57

So Russell make Markert

8:00

took the idea from John Tiller,

8:03

and Roxy Rothafel said, Hey,

8:05

I want in on this jam.

8:08

So I'm gonna grab a few

8:10

of these dancers from St. Louis

8:12

and bring him over to New York City

8:14

and we're gonna have him start dancing

8:16

there. Okay, And I know just

8:18

the place for him. There's this new venue that's

8:21

opening up in ninety two

8:23

and they're gonna call it the Radio City Music

8:25

Hall. And I'm going to make sure that

8:27

these dancers are able to perform,

8:30

and we're going to call them the Roxyettes.

8:32

How about that, huh because

8:34

of his nickname, right, And Marcaret said,

8:37

that's fine, just make sure you pay me some money

8:39

for it. Sure, And he did

8:41

get paid and got paid until nineteen

8:44

seventy one. He that's it's hard to believe.

8:46

But he worked for the Rockets

8:48

or with the Rockets from

8:51

nineteen thirty two to or I guess

8:53

even previous in St. Louis, all

8:56

the way until nine. It's

8:58

really amazing. Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

9:00

That's a pretty long career. UM.

9:03

So they they opened Radio City

9:05

Music Hall. I think they're part of a seventeen

9:08

UM group act. Uh.

9:11

And that was like such a hot ticket, something like a

9:13

hundred thousand people wanted in. But

9:15

there it's a theater, which

9:18

I think it still remains the nation's

9:20

largest UM indoor

9:22

venue, which is really

9:24

saying something because I guess it would

9:26

just be a like a theatrical venue

9:29

because obviously the largest indoor venue

9:31

sports venues UM

9:34

have it beat by quite a bit. But oh,

9:36

theatrical it has

9:38

to. Yeah, it's either movie or theatrical

9:41

or something. But it's the largest venue

9:43

of its kind in in the United States

9:45

from what I see. Yeah, and for many years

9:47

they they I mean they had specials every now

9:49

and then, but it was sort of just a movie

9:52

theater. Yeah, and here's the thing,

9:54

you could go see the movies. I think especially

9:56

it started to take off in the fifties, like

9:59

before they would have premieres for movies,

10:01

and the Rockets would like perform at the

10:03

premiere. And then at some point,

10:05

I don't know if it was Russell Markeret or Roxy

10:08

Rothefell, or somebody said, well, why why

10:11

just do this once? How about every

10:13

time somebody comes to see a movie at

10:15

the Radio City Music Hall, We'll have

10:18

the rock the Rockets perform

10:20

before the movie. Can you imagine that?

10:23

It would be pretty cool? I mean, like

10:25

imagine seeing that and then being like, okay,

10:27

now for the movie. That's just

10:30

it would be a different experience for sure. But

10:33

it was rough on the Rockets because not all

10:35

the movies were successes. So

10:38

they would change the Rockets show for

10:41

each movie. So if

10:43

a movie came along and it was just a terrible

10:45

flop, this whole choreographed

10:48

routine that they had learned would be out the door in

10:50

two days. And now all of a sudden they had to learn a new

10:52

one quick because there was a new movie

10:54

coming into replace that one. So

10:56

they did a different routine for each film.

10:58

Yes, interesting, and sometimes

11:00

they would have to learn it in a matter of hours, like

11:02

around midnight before the next day's

11:05

performances. I wonder if it was tied

11:07

to the film sometimes,

11:09

I think not all the time. I think it

11:12

was. I think it was in some

11:14

cases, but I think more than anything,

11:16

they would change the routine just because

11:19

the people coming to see a different film would

11:21

want to see a different routine. Okay, I got you,

11:23

that makes sense. Yeah. Uh So in the nineteen

11:26

forties they were one

11:28

of the first groups to sign up for the

11:30

United Service Organization and go and

11:32

perform for the troops. Uh

11:34

And in the nineteen fifties is when things

11:37

really started to

11:40

kind of take their toll. Like they were performing

11:42

sometimes up to five times a day. Uh

11:45

And so they said they built a dormitory there,

11:48

which you know, they could live

11:50

in. I don't think they were required to, but

11:53

it really was to accommodate the fact that they

11:56

were working almost around the

11:58

clock, whether because learning these new routines

12:00

like you said, and then performing up the five

12:02

times a day really grueling stuff. It was basically

12:05

the prototype for Google, just

12:07

just making it so your employees didn't

12:10

have to leave. Oh

12:12

interesting, you know what I'm saying, Just

12:14

go sleep in your pod. So the Rockets,

12:17

UM, their fame started to grow pretty

12:21

pretty quickly. Um

12:23

And they made like a few

12:25

steps, if you'll forgive the pun

12:27

um along the way. That kind of cemented

12:30

them as a as much

12:32

a piece of America

12:34

as apple pie or baseball

12:36

or moms or what have

12:39

you. So the fifties were also

12:41

big for the Rockets too,

12:43

because they joined the Macy's

12:45

Thanksgiving they prayed in nineteen fifty

12:48

seven. I think, yeah, that was

12:50

the big the big move, yeah,

12:53

because they went from just a

12:55

group that you either had to go to New

12:57

York or go off to war to see um

13:00

too. While they're in my living room now,

13:02

these girls are high kicking on my

13:05

television and I'm just loving life,

13:08

all right, So let's take a break. It's nineteen

13:11

fifties. Good times are ahead,

13:13

and then dark times come in the seventies because

13:16

it's New York City in the seventies and everything was

13:18

kind of awful then. So we'll

13:20

be back right after this. Okay,

13:50

Hey, before we get started to check, I want to say

13:53

we put on a pretty good stage show ourselves.

13:56

We've been known to and we've got some coming

13:58

up, you know, plug plug. Yeah, there's no high

14:01

kicking involved. There could

14:03

be if people demanded it. I would be willing

14:05

to do a little high kicking. So

14:08

are we talking about some shows? Yeah, let's do

14:10

the real quick, all right. So we're

14:12

we're going out west for our annual

14:14

sojourn in January

14:16

where we go to Seattle and

14:18

we go to Portland and then we end up at

14:21

SF sketch Fest like we always do in mid

14:23

January. Yeah, and I've got an

14:26

End of the World live show on

14:28

Friday at sketch Fest, and you have a

14:30

movie Crush on Saturday at sketch Fest, right.

14:32

Yeah, I'm doing a matinee show at one o'clock

14:35

on Saturday, January nineteenth with Busy

14:38

Phillips is my guest, nice and my

14:40

show is Friday the eighteenth that Cafe

14:42

du Nord did I am my own guest, fine

14:46

solo. And then I have another one in Brooklyn

14:48

on the at

14:50

the Bellhouse too. Oh I thought you already did that one.

14:53

No, huh, it got postponed to January.

14:56

Great, Yes, so you haven't missed it.

14:58

There's still time for you to come. Fantastic.

15:02

Uh. So that is our little plug, how

15:04

about that? Yeah? And of course our our big

15:06

stuff you should know show is that the Castro

15:09

on what is that Thursday night? That

15:11

is Thursday. The Yeah,

15:14

so come see us at the More in Seattle, Revolution

15:17

Hall in Portland, at the Castro

15:19

in San Francisco. Check out our individual

15:21

little shows. Are are

15:24

cute little individual shows, and

15:26

there's plenty of information on s y s

15:28

K live dot com. That's right. So

15:31

now it's the seventies. Mhm. New

15:34

York is uh, it's it's

15:37

suffering, which is crazy

15:39

when you look at pictures of New York City and the

15:42

seventies and early eighties even just

15:44

hard to believe how bad

15:46

things were there. Yeah, it was pretty

15:49

rough. And actually it's funny, like you can thank

15:51

Rudolph Giuliani for I guess, cleaning

15:53

up the town if you want to call it that. Okay

15:57

have you ever heard that? What too,

16:00

Rudolph Giuliani for cleaning up the town? Huh

16:03

uh sure, okay, good for him.

16:06

So, um, I saw him in the park one day.

16:08

You did, what was he doing talking to a duck? No,

16:10

he was. He was doing like a photo op. But I had

16:13

friends in from uh, from

16:15

another country, even, I think, and

16:18

I said, hey, guys, that's that's the mayor of New York over

16:20

there, and they're like, oh, that's nice. I went it's

16:22

kind of a big deal to just walk around and see the Mayor

16:25

of New York Did they say have

16:27

a chalk? I think they're Australian.

16:29

Actually, yeah, that was my Australian

16:31

impression. That was good. Then that's

16:35

pretty that's a great story, Chuck, Yeah, it's

16:37

fine. But uh, for

16:39

them, they didn't understand fully

16:41

that the Mayor of New York City is is

16:44

Uh, it's it's quite a big deal to see him

16:46

just out and about in the city. I

16:48

I have a similar story. I was watching um

16:50

one of the first few seasons of Law and Order

16:53

on my television one day, and there was

16:55

the Mayor of New York City, really Rudy Giuliani.

16:58

Interesting, but I you it was a big,

17:01

big deal. I got another story,

17:03

Okay, did you know

17:05

and the Michael Bay film Pearl Harbor

17:08

that they camped in Bruce

17:11

Willis's John McClean character from die

17:13

Hard in one hospital scene. How

17:16

just digitalie, that's an anachronism

17:18

right now, that doesn't make any sense.

17:20

Did they really do that? Yeah? There if you can look

17:22

at up Pearl Harbor John McClean and there's like

17:25

screenshots of

17:27

of John McLean and his white tank

17:29

top just briefly for a

17:31

blip in the background of one of the

17:33

hospital scenes in Pearl Harbor. It's

17:36

so weird. So you know, there's a

17:38

nude woman in the window

17:41

of one of the buildings that the rescuers fly

17:43

by. The Disney movie from

17:45

the sixties. Yeah, all these weird movie

17:47

easter eggs just board

17:50

editors. I guess that's exactly

17:52

what it hit for juvenile editors.

17:55

All Right, so it's the nineteen seventies in

17:57

New York. None of this has happened yet that we're

17:59

talking about. The rescuers

18:01

did. The rescuers did, but there was no die Hard.

18:03

There was no Pearl Harbor movie

18:06

except for Toro Toora Toora, but no bad Pearl

18:08

Harbor movie. Okay, uh

18:10

No. Rudy Giuliani he

18:13

was alive, sure, but he

18:15

was not in the mayor of New York City and in the nineteen

18:17

seventies, not as far as we know, who was

18:20

at that was Ed Cotch he was the eighties,

18:22

I think was he maybe late seventies.

18:24

All right, we'll get that straightened out. But

18:27

New York City is going down the toilet, including

18:30

believe it or not, Radio, the Great Radio

18:32

City Music Hall, much like our own legendary

18:36

Fox Theater in Atlanta, UH

18:38

was facing shutdown and

18:40

demolition potentially. Yeah, there

18:42

was a rough transition from some of those old

18:45

movie palaces after people stopped

18:47

well going to movie palaces and moved out

18:49

to the suburbs. Um, a

18:51

lot of those beautiful places were

18:54

left out in the cold, and some of them

18:56

didn't well, a lot of them didn't make it, but some of

18:58

them almost didn't make it. Like you said, the Fox

19:00

and Radio City and apparently

19:03

it was going to be turned into a parking lot. And

19:05

Belushi himself got onto the

19:07

news desk at Saturn and Live and was

19:10

railing against the demise of Radio

19:12

City Music Hall. And the Roquettes

19:14

too had said, hey,

19:16

hey, hey, hey, this is our

19:18

home. This is an iconic place. Let

19:21

us help, like go raise awareness

19:23

and funds to to save this place.

19:25

And they did. They were successful. They got it put

19:27

on the National Historic Register of

19:29

Historic Places and it has a Landmark

19:32

designation. Not just the buildings

19:35

buildings in New York with the Landmark designation,

19:38

but only a hundred and ten interiors

19:41

have the landmark designation, and Radio

19:43

City Music Hall is one of them, which means that its

19:45

interior is so amazingly beautiful

19:48

that is to be protected landmark

19:50

in the United States. Yeah, I've never been

19:52

in there. I haven't either. I've been to Carnegie

19:54

Hall, but never Radio City. Uh,

19:57

that's on the list for sure. But um,

19:59

it's interesting because they tried to Their

20:01

whole deal was is they wanted exclusive

20:04

movie bookings. Like they

20:07

were they were to be the only theater in town

20:09

that would be showing a particular movie, so

20:11

that that limits there, uh,

20:14

their pool immediately,

20:16

and then they really prefer g rated movies.

20:19

They had really strict screening criteria,

20:22

so that just it narrowed down their

20:24

their movie pool so small that

20:27

they would go weeks and weeks at a time where

20:29

nothing happened there. Yeah, so they would

20:31

just shut down because again, remember

20:33

like the Rockets are a dance troupe

20:35

that you would see before you saw a movie.

20:38

So if they're not showing movies, they're not showing

20:40

the Rocketts. And at this time

20:42

in the seventies, the Rockets said, Okay,

20:44

we're our talent is being wasted

20:47

here. At least let us go take the show

20:49

on the road. While you guys are sitting around waiting

20:51

for another movie to come along. And

20:53

they actually they gained that right because

20:55

their union dancers. We should say,

20:57

we'll get into that a little more later, but they

20:59

made it's to get the right to take the show

21:01

on the road and they really started to make a

21:03

name for themselves in the seventies. Uh,

21:06

in places like Tahoe in Vegas. Apparently

21:09

made a huge fan out of Sammy Davis Jr.

21:12

Who would come see the same show like night after

21:14

night when they when they play in Vegas or Tahoe

21:16

or whatever. He was just fascinated by the rockcats.

21:18

Love that for sure. Little Sammy, what

21:21

a great guy. We should do a show on him.

21:23

Apparently he also, oh yeah, I'm done with that.

21:26

He also surprised them on stage once

21:28

by joining them on stage for a dance number,

21:30

which apparently he knew because he'd seen the show

21:33

so many times, which

21:35

that's a pretty Sammy thing to do in Las Vegas.

21:38

High kicking, Well, his

21:40

his kicks weren't so high. Run out on stage,

21:43

unbidden, uninvited. He's a little

21:45

guy, he was. He was the littlest

21:47

rockette I imagine. Wow, but he

21:49

was too. So, Uh, they're doing

21:51

their show on the road, here and there. They're making

21:53

ends meet. Radio City is struggling,

21:56

even though it was designated as a landmark. The

21:58

eighties were not super kind to

22:00

Radio City either. Um.

22:03

They very famously appeared at the halftime

22:05

show the Super Bowl, and um,

22:08

they're trying to change with the times. Uh,

22:10

they're dancing it uh in the

22:12

nineties at different places. And they're always

22:15

doing their Christmas deal throughout

22:17

all this after you know, they started doing that. And what

22:19

was at fifty seven? Oh

22:22

they did the Macy's Prade in thirty two. Oh

22:24

no, I'm sorry, I thought you meant the Christmas Spectacular.

22:27

Yeah, the Macy's Parade was the Thanksgiving

22:29

Prairie was fifty seven. Yeah. So they've got

22:31

their their holiday stuff, their Easter specials,

22:34

their Christmas specials. Uh.

22:37

They're dancing at inaugurations for George

22:39

W. Bush. Um. In

22:41

fact, they came under under fire for

22:43

dancing at Trump's inauguration. Well, the

22:46

dance troop almost was split asunder

22:48

over whether they wanted to do that or not. And

22:51

it was a big deal. It was a huge deal actually,

22:53

and they had revived the

22:55

Easter extravaganza. They renamed it

22:57

the New York Springs spectacular the year

22:59

before or and they said they took a year

23:01

off and I don't think they ever went back to it

23:03

because of all the controversy over two thousand

23:06

sixteen and the inauguration. It was just

23:08

such an unusual experience for

23:10

the Rocketts. Um

23:13

like they're they're just like America personified.

23:16

And for there to be a huge national

23:18

conversation about, you know, them performing

23:21

at an inauguration. It was a big deal for

23:23

the organization for sure, especially for

23:25

the dancers who were like career rockets.

23:28

Yeah exactly, Um, should we

23:30

talk a little bit about just being

23:32

a rocket? I think we should, man,

23:34

because we've done it. We

23:38

have. I mean, there was a brief

23:40

time although we've basically entered

23:43

Dina Lohan territory now Lindsay

23:46

Lohan's mom, she very famously

23:49

lied about being a rocket. Yeah,

23:51

she said that her she has a background in show

23:54

business. Um, she was a rocket

23:56

for a while, and some journalists went and

23:58

dug around and they

24:00

found out that she was definitely They had no

24:02

record whatsoever of her, under any

24:05

name, maiden or married, ever

24:07

being a rocket. It's always amazing to

24:09

me when very provable

24:13

or disprovable public lies are told

24:15

by people like that, or like politicians

24:17

who say that, you know, like they've

24:19

fought in a war when they didn't, like that's happened.

24:23

Uh, It's just I don't know why people say

24:25

things like that. That's like, no, we kind

24:27

of can go check that really easily. Yeah,

24:29

even but even without like you

24:31

know, the check ability of it to to just

24:34

like you know, lie in an interview to

24:37

puff yourself up. I guess, like

24:40

I don't understand the psychology of it. Is

24:42

it just because you don't feel like you're given the interview

24:44

or enough of what they need? Or do they

24:47

did they lay some sort of trick that led you

24:49

into it? Or I don't understand it

24:51

either. Yeah, I wonder if people start

24:53

to believe these lies, Like if you make

24:55

up a story about yourself and you

24:57

just stick with it for so long. It's

25:00

weird. Psychology, Yes, human psychology

25:02

is indeed quite weird. Didn't

25:05

you have a web show called Psychology

25:08

is Weird? Nuts? Psychology

25:10

is Nuts, a little short lived

25:12

video thing. Yeah, I can check that out. Everyone.

25:15

Oh, we'll take a break.

25:46

I am We're back. Yes, So

25:49

we were going to tell everyone about our experiences

25:51

rockets because

25:53

we're Dina Lohan. So here's

25:56

the thing. If you're a rocket and

25:59

you've been doing this for ten

26:01

years, you're pretty long lived rocket.

26:03

Although I think I saw um

26:06

one woman who is a roquette.

26:09

And if I'm talking weird

26:11

all of a sudden, it's because I am stalling

26:14

everybody looking

26:16

for her name and I'm not finding it. But I

26:18

think it's Lindsay How. I'm almost positive

26:20

her name is Lindsay How. I believe she has

26:23

been a rocket for fourteen years.

26:25

That's a very long time

26:27

to be a rocket, because, as you will soon learn,

26:29

being a rocket is extremely difficult

26:32

and very demanding, and inside

26:34

of show business and out there widely

26:36

seen is probably some of the best

26:39

professional dancers in the business,

26:41

and certainly some of the most disciplined professional

26:44

dancers in the business as well. Um,

26:47

but it's really hard to do for

26:49

a really long time, and one

26:51

of the main reasons why is because their work schedule

26:53

is extremely grueling. But

26:56

but with Lindsay um How,

26:59

she would make the same amount of money

27:01

that a first year rockette would

27:03

make because they're all

27:05

paid the same, they work the same hours, they do

27:07

the same work. Some of them are kind

27:10

of promoted as like the faces of the Rocketts.

27:12

Um the company I think the Madison

27:15

Square Garden company that owns Radio

27:17

City Music Hall, and the Rocketts are

27:19

really protective of their image and

27:22

um, like they aren't free

27:24

to just kind of talk to the media or whatever. There's some that

27:26

are kind of like you and you and you. You're

27:29

the Rocketts. You're the face of the Rockets. But

27:31

other than that, everyone does the same amount

27:33

of work, same amount of ours, same amount of pay.

27:35

And one of the reasons they do that is because the

27:38

point of the Rockets is not to have standouts.

27:41

It's not like other dance troops or other Broadway

27:43

troops or anything like that. There's not meant to be stars.

27:45

The Rocketts are the star and they're

27:48

meant to be one single

27:50

unit that moves and works and lives

27:52

together. Yeah, and their their union.

27:55

I so uh they make there.

27:57

They make most of their money over

28:00

holiday season. So they walk out

28:02

after a couple of months with about forty

28:04

grand in their pocket, which isn't

28:07

bad. Um, you know, for a couple of months

28:09

work, but it is, like you said, super

28:11

grueling. Um, if you want

28:13

to become a Rockett, you're not required

28:16

to. But there is something called the Rockets

28:18

Summer Intensive Dance Program

28:21

where you can go, you can enroll, you

28:23

can spend six hours a day learning

28:26

uh, learning everything um over the course

28:28

of about a week, UM. All the choreography,

28:31

UM, how to how to get in that shape, stay

28:34

in that shape, how to prevent injuries, um,

28:36

and sort of the business of it all. And

28:40

like I said, you don't have to do that, but they

28:42

do place a lot of Rocketts

28:45

if you attend that Intensive Dance program.

28:47

Well some I saw out of a thousand that

28:49

have taken it, sixty have gone on to actually

28:51

become Rockets. Yeah, because it's very

28:54

tough to become a Rockett too. Yeah, I

28:56

mean I get the feeling that's that has less

28:58

to do with the program then, just

29:01

how hard it is to make that cut right

29:03

right exactly. So Uh,

29:05

not only do you have to be fit enough

29:08

to kick those famous

29:10

kicks up to twelve hundred

29:12

times a day through all these

29:14

shows, but there's one,

29:17

uh, there's one clothing change you gotta do

29:19

all these costume changes, but there's one in particular

29:22

in between, uh, the

29:24

Parade of the Wooden Soldiers in New York

29:26

at Christmas that you have to be completely

29:29

changed out in seventy eight seconds. Seventy

29:31

eight seconds, and these costumes

29:34

are not like super easy to take

29:36

off, the wooden Soldier one in particular,

29:38

pretty complex. Um,

29:41

So seventy eight seconds probably goes by extremely

29:43

fast. Yeah, and there's

29:46

there's thirty six Rockets total UH

29:48

performing on stage, but there

29:51

are eighty certified Rocketts

29:53

total overall. You have a morning

29:55

cast and afternoon cast, and

29:57

then you have for each of those shows you have for

30:00

UH swings or extras per

30:03

so, like if someone's like I just

30:05

twisted my ankle, I can't do this. They

30:07

have four women waiting in the wings for each of

30:09

those morning and afternoon

30:12

shows. Yeah. So the thing is, though,

30:14

is they're working six days a

30:16

week, or the Rocketts

30:18

are performing six days a week. If

30:20

you have two casts, rather than

30:22

work all work both casts

30:25

six days a week. Um, they'll they'll

30:27

alternate to give one another a

30:29

day off. And they'll do that on days sometimes

30:32

where there's four performances in a day,

30:35

which means that if you're a Rocket,

30:37

there are days and I've seen also sometimes

30:39

they're back to back days where you're where

30:42

you're doing four performances

30:44

in a single day. Four ninety minute performances,

30:47

and that's when those kicks that you mentioned,

30:50

Chuck comes in, because some of those shows

30:52

have three hundred high kicks, and we're talking eye level

30:54

kicks, and if you do four of them in a

30:57

day, you've just kicked at eye level

31:00

are times in a day, And from some of

31:02

the articles I've read, that

31:04

is about as much as your body can

31:06

possibly take. Yeah, I

31:08

mean, they they all in the interviews I

31:10

saw. There was that great New York Times article where they really

31:12

sort of dive into a day in the life of a

31:14

rocket during the holiday season, and

31:17

they all kind of are are like, there's

31:19

no way to prepare your body for this, Like

31:22

we are in the best shape that a dancer

31:24

can be in, and it just destroys

31:27

us to the point where, like one of

31:29

them said that just taking their stockings off

31:31

at the the night is laborious.

31:33

And you know, with their commute, depending on where

31:36

they come from, some of them are

31:38

are awake and either commuting

31:40

or or rehearsing or performing

31:43

twenty hours in a day, just

31:46

grueling, grueling stuff. But across

31:49

the board, they also all say that

31:51

it is the only job that they want. It

31:53

is a great sorority and sisterhood

31:56

and an honor to be one of

31:58

these over the years. Three in women

32:01

who have made that cut you

32:04

never were like, well, it's really not worth it

32:06

in the end. Yeah, no, the I

32:09

mean, at least the ones who are allowed to speak to the

32:11

media certainly have a lot of positive

32:13

things to say about being a Rocket and like how

32:15

familial it is and how you're

32:17

just hanging out with your best friends, and um,

32:20

it is a great gig for

32:22

a dancer, especially as one of these articles

32:24

pointed out, if you're a dancer who doesn't sing. Yeah,

32:27

that's a rare thing to get that kind

32:29

of a gig. I think it's one of the few, uh

32:32

for jazz and tap dancers were singing is not

32:34

involved. But also not just like a

32:37

good gig, a good paying gig to

32:39

like forty grand for a couple of months

32:42

of performances. A lot

32:44

of the Rocketts, um,

32:46

they don't live in New York. They'll come live in New York

32:48

during the season when

32:51

they need to rehearse and then do the Christmas spectacular

32:53

and then they go home. So they might live in New York

32:55

from September to um the end

32:57

of December, and then they go back

33:00

home, and wherever home is, forty Graham probably

33:02

goes a lot further than it

33:04

does in New York, unless they live in San Francisco,

33:06

in which case it is probably it

33:08

goes even faster. But um,

33:11

it's a really good paying gig. They also have

33:13

benefits because their union in their

33:15

contract workers, they

33:17

have year round benefits and

33:20

and forty Graham so they can go work as

33:22

pilates, instructors, as nutritionists,

33:24

as all the other stuff that they do during

33:26

the year normally, and then they come back and

33:28

they they're a rocket. But what something

33:31

I thought was pretty cool it was even if you're

33:33

say a tenth year roquette, um,

33:36

you get invited back like once you're a roquette,

33:38

you're in as a roquette, but you

33:40

still have to audition in April like everybody

33:42

else. So you audition

33:45

in April, and if you make

33:47

the cut, um you start

33:49

to go get in shape, and then rehearsals

33:51

I think start in September, and

33:54

rehearsals are six hours, six days a week

33:56

for basically the six weeks leading up to

33:58

the performances, which run from mid

34:01

November till I saw

34:03

December thirty one. I also saw tickets available

34:05

for January one show, so I don't know if they extended

34:08

it or not. Yeah, and it's it's funny

34:10

like it's forty grand sounds like a lot of money over a couple

34:12

of months, and it is. But when you break

34:14

it down per show, it it breaks down to about

34:16

a hundred and thirty five bucks a show, which

34:19

all of a sudden, it doesn't seem

34:22

uh like great money. No, but that's

34:24

what you make as a standard cast member

34:26

for a Broadway union dancer

34:30

or actor variety performer, I think

34:32

is the nion they're they're part of. So

34:34

no, it doesn't seem like much. But that's another

34:37

reason why the Rockette gig is so good.

34:39

You get over time on those days when you

34:41

do a third and a fourth show, you're getting

34:43

overtime pay um. And there's

34:45

multiple shows in on multiple

34:48

days, so you can I mean,

34:50

if another actor at

34:53

a different gig, working the same

34:56

days over the same period would not

34:58

make that amount of money that already

35:00

grand because they wouldn't have any overtime, they

35:02

wouldn't have that many shows. Yeah, and I don't

35:04

think anyone like dreams of going

35:06

to Broadway to become rich and wealthy,

35:09

like part of the allure Broadway as you're

35:11

with the best of the best, and you

35:14

can say I danced, or I sang or

35:16

I acted on Broadway with Brian Cranston.

35:19

I saw him on Broadway. Yeah. I saw

35:21

Michael McKeon on Broadway. An

35:24

accomplice. The audience

35:26

was the accomplice. That was the big twist. Well,

35:30

you just ruined that one. Was it good? It was

35:32

great. It was one of the greatest stage

35:35

performances I've ever seen. I saw Lenny

35:38

live on stage

35:41

Derek st Hubbinds. Yeah, this

35:43

is before I knew him as anything but Lenny.

35:45

I was like eight. Oh,

35:47

so this is a while ago. Um

35:51

Cranston is in something new on Broadway.

35:53

Now, I think to network, right,

35:55

man, I want to see that. Sure, but

35:58

that's good. I saw that was

36:00

described as get this Chuck, get ready

36:02

for this boy. Electrifying.

36:05

Really Broadway show described

36:07

as electrifying. His performance was electrifying.

36:10

I don't think I've ever heard that word used for

36:12

the theater. Um.

36:15

So another thing though about the Rockets,

36:17

even though they do make most of their money over those

36:20

couple of months and then they have the rest of the year too.

36:23

Um and in a lot of cases be like a dance

36:25

instructor or something like that, or fitness

36:27

instructor. UM.

36:29

They increasingly are working

36:32

more and more, uh, more and more months

36:34

out of the year, whether it's um

36:36

as ambassadors for the Rockets

36:39

or doing like video things for YouTube.

36:42

UM. They are increasingly called on to do other

36:44

other things. Yeah, a lot

36:47

the So what is the woman

36:49

who came along as the league choreographer

36:52

and director and really kind of punched punched

36:54

it up even further. Her name is Linda

36:56

Haberman, and she took over I think

36:58

in like the mid two thousand's,

37:02

maybe two thousan eight, and she kind

37:04

of brought like this whole new not

37:07

new, it's not a whole new thing. She just kind

37:09

of she made it a little more pro feminist,

37:11

a little more like you go girl

37:14

kind of vibe to the Rockets than they

37:16

had before they were seen, you

37:19

know, rehearsing in the rehearsal

37:21

gear rather than like full costume. And

37:24

it was just kind of like, um, the

37:26

the intent I get was to make them more

37:30

Yeah. Yes, because one of the

37:32

great criticisms of the Rockets is that

37:34

they're nothing but like of teeth and legs,

37:36

just a bunch of women out there

37:39

kicking like forming one large

37:41

uber woman who can kick her legs

37:43

amazingly high and has like the widest

37:46

gleaming ist teeth ever you've ever seen. UM,

37:49

and that that it was really kind

37:51

of just objectification

37:54

of women like to like

37:56

by definition, and uh, Linda

37:58

Hammerman like really kind of took that and tried

38:01

to unravel it quite a bit. And she also

38:03

took the show. So we should talk a little

38:05

bit about the show. It's a it's

38:08

depending on who you are. It's either like

38:10

just beloved traditional Americana,

38:14

kitchy, UM,

38:16

offensively sexist. Who

38:18

knows, but I think the first two are kind

38:20

of the predominant views of it. It's kitchy and

38:23

sweet, or it's it's you

38:25

know, endearing Americana.

38:27

UM. And Linda Haberman kind

38:30

of took that and tried to punch it up into

38:32

the century a little more. And there's

38:34

like way more visual effects than

38:36

there were before. UM, there's like a three

38:38

D component I think to this year's show

38:40

or recent year shows like

38:42

the whole The whole theme is like a girl wants a

38:45

video game and her mom is kind

38:47

of showing her. Um, you know why

38:49

that's not so great because it's a violent video

38:51

game. There's um, there's a lot of kind

38:53

of updating that's that the Rockets

38:55

have undergone in the last few years.

38:57

And that was largely from what I understand Linda Haberm

39:00

is doing. I think she was the one that digitally

39:02

inserted John McClean from die Hard. She

39:05

was he swoops in in the

39:07

New York Follies section. Now, I'm

39:09

glad they updated things because this was a

39:11

prime case of like

39:14

a blood American tradition that

39:17

could use some refreshing and you

39:19

can't highlight them as humans and individuals

39:21

and still you can have both, you know, and you can

39:24

still have that desired effect

39:26

of uniformity and precision

39:28

that they're known for, you know, right exactly,

39:31

But they don't have to be just like faceless

39:33

and nameless, you know. Now. And I

39:35

read a few like feminist critiques

39:37

of the Rocketts, and they seem

39:39

to have been kind

39:42

of outdated. Like I really feel like

39:44

Linda Haberman did a good job

39:46

at like, yeah, she she kind of took

39:48

those those critiques and changed

39:50

them in a lot of ways. Um.

39:54

One of the other criticisms is that

39:56

it wasn't until ninety five that the Rockets

39:59

are their first woman of color as a member

40:01

of their cast, of their troop.

40:04

The first woman of color was a Japanese

40:07

woman named Setsuko Mada Haashi,

40:10

and in she joined UM.

40:14

The first African American woman joined her name

40:16

was Jennifer Jones. And the reasoning,

40:18

apparently it was Mark Markert

40:20

who was like, no, it

40:23

from all I saw, it had nothing to do

40:25

with racism. It was the

40:28

idea that it was going to disrupt

40:30

the visual unity

40:32

of the dance line if there

40:35

were um, you know, differing skin colors

40:37

in this dance line. And apparently he

40:39

was so um not so about

40:41

it, like you would get in trouble if

40:43

you had a sun tan, Like that's

40:45

how that's how he wanted everything

40:47

to be homogeneous and in unison.

40:50

Well, regardless in

40:53

the twenty century, in the late twentieth century

40:55

that that sentiment didn't hold up. And I guess

40:57

shortly after he died is when they started

40:59

um adding women of color more to the Rockets

41:02

troupe. Yeah, and then they saw people of color

41:04

in that same dance line and they went, oh,

41:06

it's still awesome and synchronized and looks

41:08

great exactly, and from his grave

41:11

he went, no, he started

41:13

rolling around in it. Oh

41:15

goodness. So you haven't seen the Rockets

41:18

Christmas Spectacular. Huh do

41:20

you mean live in person? Yeah? I have not. I

41:23

have not either. Are we going to go now?

41:25

I think we should. I want to know if any Rockettes

41:27

listen to the show. Yeah, that would make me

41:30

super super happy. It would

41:32

for me as well. Uh. And the only other small

41:34

tid better have as they have microphones in their heels

41:37

of their shoes. I saw that too. They

41:40

used to They used to play

41:42

recordings of their um tapping

41:45

right. Oh I don't know, and that

41:47

that does not surprise me. Yeah, and then they

41:49

figured out how to do the actual like broadcast

41:51

the actual tampling. So

41:54

we're gonna go one day, Chuck, We're gonna go through

41:56

the Christmas Spectacular. We're gonna go see the live

41:58

Nativity with the real camel

42:00

and donkeys and the wooden

42:02

toy soldier um March

42:05

where they fall down like a domino

42:07

and slow motion. It's pretty amazing stuff. Uh.

42:10

And if you want to know more about the Rockets,

42:12

then go to Radio City Music Hall and

42:14

find them there. How about that that sounds

42:17

great. Uh well, since

42:19

I said that, then it's time for a listener, ma'am.

42:23

I'm calling this. I was a Search and Rescue

42:26

UM victim volunteer.

42:30

So this guy his dad. I'm gonna

42:32

summarize at the beginning of it because it's kind

42:34

of long, but his dad lives in the

42:36

Upper Peninsula of Michigan and as a member

42:39

of the local s a R team,

42:41

and so they were like, we need someone to play the

42:43

victim here, and he was like, I'll do

42:45

it. This guy's

42:47

son. So here's

42:49

what happened. He said, off into the heavily wooded area

42:52

and did he said. I did everything I could to think of

42:54

to try and fool the dog in the handler. I ran in

42:56

circles, went back over my own trail. I

42:58

threw off my hat. I even found some

43:00

garbage and rolled around in it. Didn't ask

43:02

my scent. Once

43:05

I had done everything I could think of to try and fool the

43:07

dog and handler that would

43:09

be tracking me, I found a nice comfy spot up

43:12

in a bush on a hill where

43:14

I could just watch the dog in the handler try

43:16

and track me. I thought it had done

43:18

a pretty good job, but once I called

43:21

the handler and let him know I was in position. Was

43:23

all over very quickly. I

43:25

sat back, and everyone was shocked to watch the dog

43:28

basically retrace my trail, step

43:30

by step, every move I made,

43:33

all those circles, finding

43:35

my hat, even that I've thrown off, even

43:38

getting into that pile of garbage that I'd rolled

43:40

around in. I love that this dog

43:42

is just basically making a fool look

43:44

for Ryan up there in the mountains, so

43:47

he said. Needless to say, the dog found me in short order.

43:50

Gave him lots of praise uh

43:52

for the great job he had done. Thankfully, I was never

43:54

in any real danger, so my experience

43:57

was a lot more enjoyable, obviously

43:59

than when blurt in real

44:01

need of a certain search and rescue dog. Thanks

44:04

for the great episodes, guys, keep

44:06

me company on overnight shifts and

44:08

make it all go by quicker. So if you read this on

44:11

the show, can I get a shout out to my girlfriend

44:14

Tarn She would be thrilled

44:16

to hear her name get called out on the show. I

44:18

think that just happened, so that is

44:20

from Ryan. I like the

44:23

the gusto that Ryan put into trying to foold

44:25

this dog. Ll holding a garbage, and I

44:27

equally loved that this dog was like whatever.

44:31

So thank you Ryan, thank you Terran for listening,

44:34

and thank you to the star dog, sure

44:36

scruffy. If you want to get in touch

44:39

of this, you can go to our website Stuff

44:41

you Should Know dot com. You can find all of our social

44:43

links there. I have a website called the Josh

44:45

clark Way dot com. And you can send

44:47

an email to Chuck, Jerry and Me at

44:50

Stuff podcast at how stuff Works

44:52

dot com

44:58

for more on this and thousands of other top is

45:00

it how staff works dot com mhm