0:01

Truck stop brothels run by a web

0:03

of ex-cons. A commonwealth

0:05

attorney wasted on whiskey and power.

0:08

Protection exchanged for cash

0:10

and flesh. This

0:12

is Hooker Gate, criminals and libertines

0:14

in the south. And

0:17

I am your host and lifelong wayward

0:19

woman, Dr. Lindsay Byron.

0:22

Listen to Hooker Gate, criminals and libertines in

0:24

the south on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

0:27

Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The

0:32

second season of El Flow is here. Step

0:35

into the ever-evolving world of Rejetong

0:37

and get up close with both

0:39

legendary figures and emerging talents in

0:42

the industry. Part of

0:44

the enormous significance of Rejetong is

0:46

really the way in which personal

0:48

narratives connect to larger things going

0:50

on historically and socially. Listen

0:53

to El Flow on the I Heart Radio

0:56

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:58

listen to your podcasts. Welcome

1:27

to Stuff You Should Know. A

1:57

production of I Heart Radio. Hey

2:05

and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

2:07

Chuck and Jerry's here too. Back

2:09

again in the trip of a lifetime.

2:12

It's the three amigos, the

2:14

three musketeers, the traits, the

2:17

Caballeros, the sufficient. That's right.

2:19

Talking about E and T. Oi,

2:22

oi, oi. Hey, that

2:25

was pretty good, Chuck. Yeah, is it?

2:27

I was not expecting that. Sometimes... Sometimes

2:29

there's like a little pause in

2:32

between you talking and me responding and

2:35

it's because I'm just astounded and that was a

2:37

good example of that. You

2:40

did great. Yeah, E

2:42

and T baby, let's do it. Okay,

2:44

so we're talking today about testosterone, estrogen.

2:48

What people commonly think of are

2:50

the two hormones,

2:53

the female hormone, the male hormone

2:56

and that those are what divides

2:58

us. The sexes are binary.

3:01

They're bisexual. There's male. There's female.

3:03

Gender is a totally different topic

3:05

as we'll talk about a little bit. But

3:08

if you have a lot of estrogen, you're female.

3:11

A lot of testosterone, you're a male. And it

3:13

turns out that we can trace that. That's

3:15

all like generally incorrect.

3:18

It's such a

3:21

broad stroke explanation of

3:23

estrogen and testosterone that it actually has

3:25

tripped us up all this time. And

3:28

just from researching this, Chuck, I

3:30

learned like, wow, if we had just

3:32

never considered estrogen female and

3:34

testosterone male, I think our general

3:36

understanding of those two hormones would

3:39

be so much deeper. Yeah.

3:42

And it's one of those things where we can

3:44

trace back to a time where

3:47

that sort of whole notion came from. Yeah.

3:50

And of course, it's early science. They were trying to figure stuff

3:52

out. But starting in

3:54

about the mid 19th century is when scientists

3:56

started kind of going wild

3:58

with animals,

4:01

and organs, and doing things

4:03

like, hey,

4:06

rat, let me remove your

4:08

testicles and let me put some ovaries

4:10

in you and see what happens. Right. And

4:12

there was a lot of this going on. There was

4:14

a British physiologist named Ernest Starling, who actually

4:17

coined the word hormone from

4:19

the Greek word to excite in 1905. And

4:22

this is sort of right around that time in the early

4:25

1900s when there were other scientists and

4:28

physiologists doing all kinds of

4:30

wacky experiments to see what happened. Yeah.

4:32

And we should say hormones are

4:35

simply chemical messengers that basically relay

4:37

messages and trigger responses or keep

4:39

responses from happening in the body.

4:42

And that estrogen and testosterone are

4:44

two kinds of hormones, specifically steroid

4:46

hormones, meaning they're made from cholesterol,

4:48

which for some reason I find

4:50

really gross. So,

4:55

well, you might find this gross too then. There

4:58

was an Austrian named Eugene Steineck,

5:01

who was doing these kinds of experiments that

5:03

I was just talking about. And

5:05

he was saying, like, come here, frog, let me

5:07

poke around your testicles and get some liquid out

5:09

of there. Let

5:11

me, like I said earlier, let me take this rat,

5:13

let me castrate it, let me transplant

5:16

some ovaries onto this rat, and then

5:18

observe what happens. Steineck

5:20

was one of those early scientists who kind

5:23

of led to this sort of binary

5:27

idea that if

5:30

you do this, you're going to feminize a rat or

5:33

you're going to masculinize a rat if you do sort

5:35

of the vice versa operation. But

5:37

very, very quickly, there were people even

5:39

back then, scientists, that were like, oh,

5:41

wait a minute, this is not

5:44

quite as binary as you're making it out

5:46

to be. And there's plenty of examples and

5:48

reasons why. But yeah, you can almost lay

5:50

the entire problem at the feet of Eugene

5:52

Steineck, that he was the one who basically

5:54

said that humans are bisexual, is how he

5:56

put it, binary sexes, male, female, and it

5:58

depends on what it is. you have testosterone

6:00

or estrogen. And like you

6:02

said, he got pushback. There was one guy

6:05

in particular, an embryologist named Carl Moore, who

6:07

was like, hey, Stein, stop

6:09

and think about what you're saying here. Even

6:12

without your mad

6:14

scientist experiments, female

6:16

rats do all sorts of, quote,

6:19

male behaviors and

6:21

vice versa. And even with

6:23

your flip-flop ovaries

6:26

and gonad rats, they're still

6:28

doing behaviors that are

6:30

not easily assigned

6:32

to one sex or the other. So

6:35

I'm not 100% sure that

6:37

it's quite as cut and dried as you have

6:40

explained it. And Eugene

6:43

Steinhuch had Carl Moore murdered,

6:45

silenced forever. Not

6:49

true. At least I don't think it is. Was that true? I

6:51

don't think so. I hope not. I

6:53

just thought he might have just leaned in with a pillow and

6:55

gave him the forever hug, you know. That's right. So

7:00

flashing forward a little bit to about the turn

7:02

of the 20th century is when research got a

7:04

little more serious about it. And they found that

7:08

extracts from your ovaries could

7:10

have beneficial treatments for things like

7:12

hot flashes during menopause. And

7:15

it could stimulate what's called estrus, which

7:17

is where the word estrogen comes

7:19

from. But estrus is like when an animal is in

7:21

heat. If you've ever seen a

7:24

cat or something or a dog in heat, it's

7:27

pretty clear that something different is going

7:29

on. And that

7:32

word estrogen in 1906

7:35

comes from that word estrus,

7:37

which is from the Greek word oystress,

7:39

which means mad desire. It

7:42

also sounds like a brand of yogurt. Oystress.

7:45

Yeah, oystro. Yeah. So

7:48

once once these guys like this is the

7:50

beginning of the 20th century, very late 19th,

7:52

but mostly the first couple of decades of

7:54

the 20th century, scientists are starting

7:56

to isolate hormones and in particular

7:59

sex hormones. And they're like, well, what happens if

8:01

you give them to humans now? Forget the frogs

8:03

and rats and all that stuff. And

8:06

what they figured out very quickly is, like

8:08

you said, menopause had been around for a

8:10

while and they're like, well, women have menopause

8:13

and estrogen seems to be the woman's sex

8:15

hormone. Let's give them estrogen and see

8:17

what happens. And it actually had

8:19

a pretty beneficial effect. It's

8:22

been long known that estrogen,

8:25

given as like a drug, can

8:28

treat symptoms of menopause, like hot flashes

8:30

and stuff. And the first estrogen, I

8:34

guess, prescription drug is

8:36

called Premarin, which has a perfectly

8:40

legitimate big

8:42

pharma sound to it, right?

8:45

Premarin, that's a great name for a drug. But

8:47

it's even better if you know what it stands

8:49

for. Yeah, and this is,

8:53

well, should we say what it stands for or say what it

8:55

is and then what it stands for? I

8:57

think you can do both simultaneously,

8:59

actually. Well,

9:02

it's not a synthetic estrogen. It

9:04

was actually a natural isolated estrogen

9:06

derived from the urine

9:09

of a pregnant horse. So Premarin

9:11

stood for pre-pregnant

9:14

mare, mare, and

9:17

the end from urine. So Premarin,

9:20

pregnant horse urine. Yeah. And

9:22

it was, I believe this was 1939. It was

9:24

made of like 10 different estrogens and

9:27

was available commercially in the US just a

9:29

few years later. And by 1992, it

9:32

was the highest selling drug in the

9:34

United States. Yeah, if you want to

9:36

have a good idea of just how

9:39

crazy the pharmaceutical market has become

9:41

in the US. Premarin

9:44

was the, I think, you

9:46

said the most prescribed drug in the US?

9:50

Well, the best selling, I guess, that would match.

9:53

The hit single? Exactly. So

9:55

this hit single, Premarin, in 1997 had revenues of

10:00

$1 billion, pretty, not

10:02

shabby, it'd be about $2 billion today. Humira,

10:05

the second best-selling drug in 2022, had revenues

10:08

of $21 billion. And

10:13

isn't that nuts? Like that's just night

10:15

and day compared to how far we've,

10:18

I guess how far we've come is one way to put it. But

10:21

the upside is Primarin was, it was a

10:23

lifesaver. Men were like, Hey,

10:26

I'd like you to be sexually available. Why

10:28

don't you take this horse urine estrogen? And

10:31

women were like, it solves my hot flash

10:33

problems sold. So it actually

10:36

really was very popular for a while. And it

10:38

wasn't until I think 2002 that

10:40

it just dropped off precipitously,

10:42

right? Yeah. And we

10:44

should mention too that this was, you know, that

10:46

was obviously for things like hot flashes, but they

10:48

were also marketing it as a

10:51

way to maintain femininity as you age,

10:54

none other than William Masters

10:57

of Masters and Johnson's fame,

10:59

said that women should use the

11:01

drug to avoid falling into the

11:03

third sex or the neutral

11:05

gender, which is very off

11:08

base to say the lead. But

11:10

yeah, in 2002 things changed because

11:14

there was the women's health

11:16

initiative released a study about

11:18

attitudes that

11:20

really like changed everything when it comes to

11:22

how women or people in general think of

11:25

hormone therapy when they said that

11:27

it can cause breast cancer, heart

11:30

disease, blood clots and

11:32

stroke. If you take what

11:35

was called by this time, prim pro, which is

11:37

primarin and pro vera as a, you know, sort

11:39

of a cocktail and

11:41

they, they meant it so much. They said,

11:43

we're even stopping this study. But

11:45

it turns out there was just a

11:47

lot of bad reporting about that, right?

11:49

Yeah, there's a New York Times Magazine

11:51

article about menopause by a writer named

11:53

Susan Dominus, who basically reported that the

11:58

media just jumped all over it. There's like. there's

12:00

a 26% increase risk in

12:02

developing breast cancer if you

12:04

take Prem Pro or generally

12:07

have hormone replacement therapy. And

12:09

that's whopping, that's a big number,

12:12

a big percentage. But in absolute

12:14

numbers, it's actually not that big.

12:17

So the average woman had a 2.33% chance

12:21

of developing breast cancer. If you took Prem

12:23

Pro, you had a 2.99% chance. So

12:27

like that was your 26% increase. And

12:29

in real terms, it sorted out to,

12:32

based on the population at the time,

12:34

an additional eight women developing breast cancer

12:36

out of every 10,000 who were

12:39

taking replacement hormones. Nothing to

12:41

sneeze at. Those eight women, I'm sure, would

12:43

much rather prefer not to have breast cancer.

12:45

But the point was that the risks of

12:48

it were grossly overstated, and

12:50

that it got, but it got such a

12:52

bad rap because of the reporting that for

12:54

a couple of decades, just trust in hormone

12:56

replacement therapy dropped off. And a lot of

12:58

women suffered unnecessarily as a result. Yeah,

13:01

and I think they didn't even find that

13:04

the transdermal variety was in fact

13:06

much safer than

13:08

the other way of taking it. Yeah, absolutely.

13:10

So like if you take it orally, which

13:12

is what it was always before pretty much,

13:14

it has to go through your liver to

13:16

be processed. And while it's there, it can

13:18

do all sorts of nasty stuff, side effects

13:20

that you don't really want, like causing thrombosis

13:22

and blood clots that can lead to heart

13:24

disease. Whereas if you do it transdermally, it

13:26

just enters the bloodstream, and it does its

13:29

thing with minimal side effects. So we've

13:31

reached the point today where your

13:34

average gynecologist is probably going to

13:36

say the benefits, if

13:38

you're healthy, outweigh the risk of

13:41

taking it, especially if you are

13:43

under age 60, and

13:45

especially if you're under age 70 and you start.

13:48

Apparently there's a, if you

13:50

have a gap between menopause and

13:52

then starting hormone replacement therapy of

13:55

a decade or two, then it

13:57

can become pretty risky. And by

13:59

the way, I don't have my lab

14:01

coat on right now. I would advise you

14:03

not to take gynecological health advice from me.

14:06

Instead, ask your doctor, but this is what

14:08

I've seen from research. Yeah. And

14:10

that, I mean, you say that virtually every time you

14:12

meet someone in person, I've heard you say those same words.

14:15

I'm big on that for sure. Say, hi,

14:17

Josh, nice to meet you. I do the stuff you should know.

14:20

Please don't take gynecological advice from me. Yeah.

14:23

No matter what comes out of my mouth at this dinner party. I

14:25

mean, it's just a smart thing to say. It

14:27

is. So this is all

14:29

going on on the estrogen side. On

14:33

the testosterone side, and we're going to kind

14:35

of bop back and forth between the two

14:37

of these. That

14:39

was isolated, I believe, in 1935. In

14:43

fact, that's when the name testosterone got its name,

14:45

which is sort of the big daddy

14:47

male hormone. And we'll talk about all the versions of these

14:50

in a second. And

14:52

on its own, testosterone wasn't

14:54

doing very much. When

14:56

they added estrone, which is a quote,

14:59

unquote female hormone, it became

15:01

very powerful. And

15:03

in 1939, there were a couple

15:05

of guys, a dude named,

15:07

I guess one guy, sorry, Leopold

15:10

Ruzika. Oh, no, no, there were two guys. And

15:13

Adolf Butenant of Germany, they

15:15

won the Nobel Prize for

15:17

chemistry by

15:19

working on largely testosterone, but you

15:21

know, sex hormones as a whole.

15:25

None other than Mr. Adolf Hitler was

15:28

one of the early adopters when

15:30

it came to the testosterone treatment. Yeah.

15:33

He had low T. I meant to send you

15:35

this, and I'm sorry I didn't, but I turned up

15:37

something that there's a,

15:40

in British World War II military

15:42

files, there were like a

15:45

bunch of ideas of how to like

15:47

basically take neutralized Hitler. And

15:49

one of them was to start slipping estrogen

15:52

into his food. And

15:54

that over time, it would basically

15:57

turn him from a maniac,

15:59

murderous killer. psycho to

16:02

maybe a little calmer, maybe a little more

16:04

feminized. And the whole

16:06

idea was that if you put poison in his

16:09

food, he had tasters and the tasters would die

16:11

from the poison and he would know that he

16:13

was being poisoned. That would not happen with estrogen.

16:15

It would take place over such a long time.

16:17

They wouldn't be able to taste it, that that

16:19

apparently was never even attempted or

16:21

certainly not carried out, but that was someone's

16:24

idea to take care of Hitler. It would

16:27

have been hilarious, dude, to see that

16:29

transition. Like, had they done that and

16:31

then just to be able to look

16:33

back all these years later and watch

16:35

the progression? There's a

16:37

Benny Hill sketch in there somewhere. So initially,

16:43

medically speaking, the first use of

16:45

testosterone was to try and cure

16:48

homosexuality in males, which

16:50

was a needless to say,

16:53

it spectacularly backfired, because

16:55

all it did was, you

16:58

know, it didn't alter any orientation. It just created,

17:00

I guess, super tops and

17:02

power bottoms and ramped up to

17:04

sex drive. And then,

17:06

of course, trans people, this was, you know,

17:08

very early in the days of hormone

17:11

therapy for trans people. It

17:13

was actually going on and, in fact, we did

17:15

a whole episode in April 2019

17:18

called Michael Dillon Transpioneer

17:21

about the Englishman who was, I mean,

17:24

I think probably the first person, at

17:26

least from the female to male

17:28

transition, to use that hormone in 1940. Yeah, yeah, it

17:31

definitely was from what we could tell. And,

17:34

by the way, if you go back and listen to that episode, if

17:36

you're like, oh my goodness, we

17:38

heard from listeners, we goofed up the

17:40

pronouns on that one because we thought, and

17:43

this is five years ago, we know better now, but we

17:45

thought it would be a good idea to sort of

17:48

let the pronouns follow the journey of

17:51

Michael Dillon's life. Yeah, forgot about that. You know,

17:53

we know better now, so just take

17:56

that with a grain of salt. Yeah, good COA. And

17:58

while we're on that, we should probably say... say we're

18:01

using male and female and man and woman

18:04

just generally a shorthand, a

18:06

biological shorthand with

18:09

the advent of trans people. There's

18:11

a much more specific way of

18:13

talking about that. Specifically,

18:16

we should be saying typically developing

18:18

assigned male at birth or assigned

18:21

female at birth people who haven't

18:23

altered their hormones, right? That's

18:26

tough to say over and over again rather

18:28

than man or woman. So please

18:31

forgive us for that. We're not being disrespectful

18:33

in that way and we're certainly not excluding

18:35

trans people from this because this very much

18:37

has a lot to do with trans. Yeah,

18:40

and that'll come in part too obviously. For

18:42

sure. I say we take a break and

18:44

come back and we'll start talking about estrogen.

18:46

Let's do it. I have a radio app, Monor's

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stop brothels run by a web of

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wasted on whiskey and power. Protection

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exchanged for cash and blood.

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This is Hooker Games, criminals

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I am your host, D. D.

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Byron. Three years ago, I

20:53

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my small southern hometown. As

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Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

21:41

All right, so we're back with Estrogen. Welcome

21:45

to the studio, Estrogen. How have you

21:47

been doing? Uh,

21:52

so that is where we Exposed Dance Cash plague was

21:54

won. Because this

21:56

project is so Curse JumpingGD are an outstanding plugin

22:00

That is, usually you think of

22:02

estrogen as one of the two female sex

22:04

hormones with progesterone.

22:08

And it is actually a family of three

22:10

hormones, the first one being estrone,

22:12

and that is the, that's

22:14

not the money estrogen, that's the weakest one. Menopause,

22:18

you know, it keeps getting produced through

22:20

menopause. It's made in the

22:22

adrenal glands, it's made in the ovaries, it's

22:25

made in fatty tissue, and it

22:27

can actually serve as a sort of a warehouse

22:30

keeping place for

22:32

estrogen, right? Yeah, for sure.

22:34

So here's where we get to the idea

22:36

that it's just misguided to think estrogen is

22:39

a woman's sex hormone, and that's it.

22:41

There's so much more to it. The

22:43

whole reason you would continue producing estrogen

22:46

as a woman in some form or

22:48

fashion after menopause, I mean, if

22:50

you're not having sex, if you can't reproduce any longer,

22:52

why would you produce estrogen? You

22:54

would produce a weaker version because it's still

22:56

doing other things, like it's really important for

22:59

bone growth and muscle development

23:01

and to keep yourself active. There's a lot

23:04

of stuff that estrogen does just

23:06

beyond forming the reproductive

23:10

system or for sexing

23:13

females. Yeah, and we also did

23:15

mention, and this is probably if

23:17

someone wants more quote unquote proof, estrogen

23:20

is found in plants like rice. Yeah,

23:23

I mean, we could just end the

23:25

podcast right here. Testosterone

23:27

is not found in plants, only in the animal world, but we'll

23:29

get to that. All right, the next one we

23:31

come to, that was E1 by the way. E2

23:34

is estradiol, which

23:36

is this is the money estrogen. This is

23:38

the potent one. This is

23:41

made in the ovaries of women and made

23:43

in the testes of men. What? Once

23:45

again, men and women both

23:48

have each in different levels, and

23:50

this is the one that really kicks

23:52

in during puberty and then

23:55

takes a break during menopause. Not

23:57

a break, but more like a retirement. Yeah. to

24:00

Florida. Yeah,

24:02

exactly. Maybe, yeah, Florida. Sure.

24:05

For once I'm just gonna stick with my

24:07

original one. Good. Estriol

24:10

is another one. This one

24:12

is mostly produced during pregnancy

24:15

to help the uterus grow and

24:17

it also helps with breastfeeding.

24:20

It leads to most of the body

24:22

changes during pregnancy. You can thank estriol

24:24

for that. And there are other types

24:26

of estrogen but typically it's those three.

24:29

Those are the big ones. And

24:31

it's obviously everyone knows estrogen is the reason

24:34

that you have breasts and that your hips

24:36

fill out and that it

24:38

has a lot to do with a

24:40

woman's monthly cycle, right? And

24:42

that's absolutely true. That has a lot to do with

24:45

everything. Like that's what estrogen does. But it

24:47

is again, it's important for metabolizing

24:50

muscles, for preventing

24:52

your muscles from injury. It

24:55

also contributes to endurance, which

24:58

if you read about ultra marathons, women

25:00

tend to dominate those. I was

25:03

reading about like short runs,

25:05

men can outrun women very easily. Marathons

25:08

typically men win. But then as you get

25:10

further and further and further and actually there's

25:12

a moment I think it's like

25:16

150 miles or some mind

25:18

boggling amount of distance, women

25:20

start to slowly overtake men. And then the

25:22

longer you go, the further

25:24

ahead women finish before

25:27

men in

25:29

tests of endurance like that. And they

25:31

think it's because they have higher stores

25:33

of estrogen, which is helping their muscles

25:35

work better. So you also talked

25:38

about good for like

25:40

muscle growth and muscle formation. Also

25:43

estrogen can help facilitate brain

25:45

activity, skin

25:48

elasticity, which

25:50

is that why wrinkles

25:52

happen as you age? Is that because of

25:55

drop in among other things in estrogen? I

25:58

would think so. I think it's also just they've

26:00

been around the block so many times. Like

26:04

skiing, I mean. Yeah, yeah. So if you're

26:07

a doctor, Dr. Clark. Well,

26:09

no, okay. And you're like, Doc,

26:11

why am I going

26:14

wrinkly around the eyes here? What's going on with physiologically with

26:16

my body? You know, it's been around the block. What

26:19

more can I say? And also, don't

26:21

take any gynecological advice from me. Right.

26:24

They'd be like, I thought you're a dermatologist. Oh,

26:26

I'm neither. Oh, boy. So

26:28

estrogen is something that can affect

26:31

mood. But

26:33

you know, it fluctuates. I

26:35

think pre-menopausal women

26:37

have a range of about 30 to

26:40

40 picograms per milliliter.

26:43

But it varies from person to person. And

26:46

then, like we said, it rises and falls during

26:48

the menstrual cycle. It was such an epiphany

26:51

for me. I'm just like,

26:53

oh, I had no idea that it

26:55

was this, that things overlap this much.

26:58

I mean, I didn't think it was just like cut

27:01

and dry, but I knew there was some crossover. But

27:03

I didn't realize just how much Steinbach screwed us up

27:06

with that whole binary thing. Yeah,

27:09

I was trying to make a joke about a pop

27:11

act that crossed over, but I couldn't come

27:13

up with it. Someone

27:16

send in a good joke there. How about

27:18

Bayonce? She's in a country. I heard about that.

27:20

Did you hear it? Is it good? Yeah,

27:23

it's fine. I'm not huge

27:25

in the country. So

27:27

it's real country then, huh? No,

27:29

it's like dance floor,

27:31

line, dancing, yeah,

27:33

sure. It is real country. Yeah,

27:36

but it's not like Hank or

27:38

anything like that, but it's more like Garth. It's

27:40

like a Garth Brooks song. Oh, geez. I need

27:42

to hear it. I thought it was more just

27:44

like, hi, I'm Beyonce and I put on a

27:46

cowboy hat. So now- No, she's from

27:48

Texas, you know. She knows what she's talking about. Yeah, that's

27:50

true. Can we talk

27:53

about the big game? Please don't quote me on that. I'm

27:55

not in the Bayhive. Love

27:57

you there. I went

27:59

to that concert. Great. Yeah, I'll

28:01

bet. Can we talk about the big T?

28:04

Oh, we're here, huh? Yeah. I

28:07

mean, we're going to go back and forth, but T needs to... T

28:09

is ready to speak, I think. Oh,

28:11

before we do, I want to say one other

28:13

thing about estrogen. It apparently encourages physical movement, and

28:16

you're like, so? Like

28:18

with low estrogen, your will

28:20

to get up and move

28:22

or walk across the room or go take

28:25

a walk is depleted because

28:27

your estrogen is lower. It's as simple

28:29

as that. Isn't that nuts? Yeah.

28:32

That's cool. So, yes, now we're on to T. That's

28:34

right. The male hormone. In

28:36

part, yes. And

28:39

that's no judge, like for

28:41

sure. Estrogen helps

28:43

form females.

28:47

Testosterone helps form males. And

28:50

apparently, in the uterus, they're

28:52

both exposed to copious

28:54

amounts of testosterone. That's

28:56

just what differentiates females from males

28:58

or keeps females from developing into

29:00

males because I didn't know this

29:02

either, Chuck. We all start out

29:04

as females. Did

29:07

you know that? I think we talked about

29:09

that in our puberty episode. Okay. So

29:11

just bear with me for a second. We all start out as females,

29:14

and then we're all kind

29:16

of inundated with testosterone. But

29:19

females typically have something

29:21

called aromatase, which

29:23

is an enzyme that converts

29:26

testosterone into estrogen much more

29:28

prevalent in the placenta with

29:30

the fetus. And so

29:32

it's basically like batting away all the

29:34

testosterone so the baby comes out assigned

29:37

female at birth. Pretty interesting, huh? It

29:39

is. Like without the injection of testosterone,

29:42

we would all be females. Or without

29:44

the presence of aromatase, we would all be males.

29:48

That's right. And then once things

29:50

are, I guess what, that's around the

29:52

seventh week or so? Yeah, something like that. That's

29:55

when the testicles start to produce testosterone. That's

29:57

when the factory opens up. And

30:00

I don't think we mentioned, but testosterone

30:02

is a member of a family

30:05

of androgen hormones. Boy,

30:08

should we even try and say these or just say the

30:10

shorthand? I want to say them. Knock

30:13

yourself out. Androstenidione.

30:16

I practiced. Androstenodione.

30:18

Yeah, I think that's right.

30:23

Dehydroepiandrosterone, also known as

30:26

DHEA. Sure. Dehydroepiandrosterone

30:30

sulfate, DHEAS, and

30:33

then dihydrotestosterone, DHT. Yeah,

30:36

nice work. Thanks. You get

30:38

to move on in our medical

30:40

competition. You could be a doctor.

30:43

But I'm not, so don't listen to

30:46

me for gynecological advice. Never, never. Or

30:48

any medical advice. Sure.

30:50

So like I said, the testosterone

30:52

factory has opened at about seven

30:54

weeks. And the reason we

30:56

went back and kind of named the

30:58

others is because some of that testosterone

31:00

at that age is converted into the

31:03

DHEA, right? Yeah.

31:05

I'm not going to say it.

31:08

And that is sort

31:11

of the money hormone for making

31:13

the penis form and

31:15

grow into a prostate. And

31:18

about seven months in is when

31:20

the trigger is kicked off

31:22

by testosterone for testicular descent,

31:25

even though that can happen after you're born.

31:27

It makes a hilarious, booooo sound. Oh

31:30

man, where's your slide whistle? I don't have

31:32

it on me. Maybe Jerry will work

31:35

it in. Yeah. I think you

31:37

actually isolated some slide whistle cuts, so. Don't

31:40

tell everybody. I know. Here's

31:43

one of the facts of the podcast to me. I

31:45

had no idea about this. So

31:49

male babies are flooded with testosterone.

31:51

They don't have a bunch of

31:53

aromatase to convert all of it

31:55

into estrogen. So

31:58

they become male and all the stuff that

32:00

you just. mention happens. But they do

32:02

have some aromatase and some

32:04

of that testosterone is converted into estradiol.

32:07

And that estradiol actually is

32:09

what forms the male brain.

32:13

So estrogen forms the male brain.

32:15

Starts out with testosterone, converted into

32:18

estradiol, it causes the changes

32:20

in the brain that create the male

32:22

brain. Whatever, Snowflake. I

32:26

just think that's awesome. It

32:28

also just goes to show you just how... Just

32:32

imagine what an intricate chemical dance this

32:35

is and how you adjust this a

32:37

little bit and adjust that a little

32:39

bit. And all sorts of different outcomes

32:41

can happen. It's just fascinating. Oh, for

32:43

sure. When you're a little

32:45

kid, there's not a lot of difference

32:48

between your testosterone levels if you're a little

32:52

girl, a little boy. I think

32:54

usually under 10 nanograms per deciliter.

32:57

It's puberty where things just go

32:59

hog wild. And little

33:01

boy's testosterone just shoots through the roof.

33:04

It rises in girls as well, but nothing like

33:06

it does in boys. Once

33:08

you become a big man,

33:11

a full grown man like us, you're

33:13

going to have T levels between 300

33:15

and 1,000 if you have, quote unquote,

33:19

normal T. Women have

33:21

much lower levels between 15 and

33:23

70. And

33:25

little boys, it's what's going to trigger your

33:28

voice to change, your bone

33:31

and muscle mass to grow. All of

33:33

a sudden, you're going to have body hair and facial

33:35

hair and stuff like that. And

33:37

also, and I think we've talked about this

33:39

at some point, it is

33:41

related to male pattern baldness, but I don't think

33:43

they're still at the level where they

33:46

can say like, hey, if you

33:48

have high T, then you're more likely to

33:50

be bald. Yes, and that's

33:52

really, really important to point out, dude,

33:54

is that we are not at a

33:57

place in microbiology.

34:00

or human chemistry where we're like, this is what

34:02

this hormone does, and this is what that hormone

34:04

does. And one of the reasons why is because

34:06

the same hormone can have wildly

34:08

different effects, depending on at what stage

34:10

in a reaction it comes in, or

34:14

in what tissues or what regions of the

34:16

brain or the body, it's interacting

34:18

with other things. So when you add all

34:20

these different, not just other kinds of hormones,

34:22

but also like neurotransmitters and neuromodulators and all

34:25

this stuff, it just

34:27

becomes exponentially more complicated and

34:29

complex. So we're still kind

34:31

of at the place where it's like,

34:33

yeah, testosterone's for boys and

34:35

estrogen's for girls. And we're making

34:38

tons of headway, but generally speaking,

34:40

we're still at a very basic

34:42

level in understanding what

34:44

hormones are capable of. And then

34:46

also on the flip side, looking

34:48

at behavior and saying like, oh,

34:50

well clearly aggression is related to

34:53

high levels of testosterone. Yeah,

34:55

and we'll get to that coming up

34:57

in a sec for sure. When? There have

34:59

been lots of studies. Well, we need to talk

35:01

about testosterone dropping over the years, because men

35:04

don't experience like a drop

35:06

off in testosterone, like women do

35:08

with menopause and estrogen,

35:11

but it does decline

35:13

in both men and women, testosterone by

35:15

about a percentage a year, starting

35:17

in your 30s, sort

35:19

of early to mid 30s generally, although that can

35:22

vary as well. And it can

35:24

vary just from time to time too. A

35:26

man's level of testosterone

35:28

can go up or down fairly

35:30

dramatically for different reasons over short

35:32

periods of time. Yeah, and

35:35

just like with estrogen, testosterone

35:37

is also responsible for bone growth

35:39

and development and remodeling. Apparently

35:41

the testosterone is useful for the

35:44

hard outer layers of the bone,

35:46

and estrogen is for the spongy

35:48

interior layers. It's cool.

35:51

And also something else that stood out to me is

35:53

men's estrogen levels are

35:56

roughly similar to women's testosterone

35:58

levels under normal circumstances. Yeah,

36:00

I guess so, right? Yeah,

36:02

I think it's pretty interesting. I'm looking at

36:04

the numbers. They add

36:06

up. Well, you were talking

36:08

about aggression. I mean, should

36:11

we take a break and talk about that, or should we wait? I

36:13

say we take a break now. The

36:16

monkey's already flown the coop. All right, the

36:18

monkey's out of the bag. The

36:21

cat is out of the cage. We'll be right back.

36:35

47 years ago, on a warm summer's

36:37

night in Melbourne, Susan Bartlett and Suzanne

36:39

Armstrong were stabbed to death in their

36:42

home in Easy Street, Collingwood. Suzanne's

36:44

16-month-old son was asleep in his

36:46

cot at the time. The

36:49

double homicide left the community shocked

36:51

and detectives rattled, as several promising

36:53

early leads gradually peed it out.

36:57

No one has ever been charged,

36:59

and critical questions remain unanswered. Did

37:02

the young women know their killer, or

37:04

did they die in a brutal random

37:06

attack? Why has their

37:09

murderer never been found? Journalist

37:12

Helen Thomas has been investigating Susan

37:14

and Suzanne's deaths for more than

37:16

a decade. Now Helen

37:18

has delved into the case again

37:20

for a brand new original podcast

37:22

made for Casefile Presents. Listen

37:25

to Casefile Presents The Easy Street

37:27

Murders on the iHeartRadio app Apple

37:29

Podcasts, or wherever you get your

37:32

podcasts. The

37:54

podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else,

37:56

like... interviews,

38:00

and a roundup of the weekly

38:03

headlines. Listen to The Daily Show,

38:05

ears edition on the iHeart Radio

38:07

app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you

38:10

get your podcasts. Okay,

38:30

Chuck, so we're back. We

38:55

found the cat, put him in the cradle with the

38:58

silver spoon so everything's back to normal. Hmm,

39:00

sad as sun. Oh, it is. It is pretty

39:02

sad, especially if you like your dad. Especially

39:06

if you had problems with your dad. Oh

39:08

yeah, I guess so. Okay

39:19

Chuck, so we're back. We found the

39:22

cat, put him in the cradle with the silver spoon

39:24

so everything's back to normal. Hmm, sad

39:26

as sun. Oh, it is. It is

39:28

pretty sad, especially if you like your dad. Especially

39:32

if you had problems with your dad. Oh yeah,

39:34

I guess so. I guess so. Yeah.

39:36

Yeah, is there any circumstance where that wouldn't

39:38

be a sad song? I

39:40

don't know. Maybe the perfect amount

39:43

of care and

39:45

love from your father with

39:47

no accompanying abuse. Gotcha.

39:49

Perfect. I don't know. I'm

39:52

sure that's very prevalent. Yeah. So

39:54

yeah, we're talking about testosterone. We're talking

39:56

about sex. We're talking about

39:58

aggression. All of

40:01

those things seem to be very

40:03

much intertwined in the public consciousness

40:05

about testosterone, right? The more testosterone

40:07

you have, the more Stallone-esque you

40:09

are, the more likely you

40:11

are to wear like a floor length mink

40:13

coat with no shirt underneath. Which I have

40:15

to say, if I could wear that, I

40:17

definitely would if I could rock that look.

40:19

It's a good look. And Josh, I think

40:21

if you remember, I wore that exact coat in

40:24

the movie in my film, Night Hawks. Is

40:26

that what that was from? I think you

40:28

wore a mink coat in Night Hawks. Okay. Although

40:31

you use a cop in Night Hawks, you couldn't afford

40:33

a mink coat. No way. Not on a cop salary.

40:35

Not an honest cop. An underrated movie.

40:38

So is it... Yeah,

40:40

I don't know if it holds up great, but I thought it

40:42

had a pretty good ending. We

40:44

won't spoil. No, no. And it's

40:46

definitely spoilable for sure, but... And that

40:49

was much Stallone, by the way. People were just like, what are

40:51

you even talking about? Why did Chuck slur there for a little

40:53

while? I thought it came

40:55

through loud and clear. Okay, good. The

40:57

idea is that the whole reason the

40:59

Rambo films were made, particularly two and

41:01

three, is because Sylvester Stallone experienced a

41:04

massive spike in testosterone and had to

41:06

get it out in some

41:08

productive way. Oh, I thought it

41:10

was because Rambo was no expendable. I

41:13

haven't seen those movies. No,

41:15

no, no. That was a joke from Rambo 2. Oh,

41:18

well, he was also in The Expendables. Yeah,

41:20

I know. I wonder if that had anything to

41:22

do with that line. Probably not. Could

41:24

be. I'm sure some

41:27

people were like, shut up and

41:29

talk about aggression and testosterone. You're

41:31

making me aggressive. Well, what if

41:33

you neuter a male dog? That's

41:35

a good sort of first example.

41:37

That's a great entree. Chuck.

41:40

Most people would say that if you

41:43

neuter, if you remove the testicles of

41:45

a male dog, it's going to become

41:47

much more submissive, much chiller, probably a

41:49

lot more fun at parties. We'll

41:52

come pick you up if your car breaks down, that

41:54

kind of thing. And there is

41:56

some data that shows that

41:58

that's the case. Some dogs

42:01

are calmer once they're neutered. But

42:03

the other studies have shown like

42:05

the exact opposite is true. That

42:07

dogs can become actually more aggressive when

42:10

they're neutered, which is a head scratcher of a

42:12

puzzler, if you ask me. Yeah,

42:14

I mean, I just went through this with

42:17

Gibson, and he's not

42:20

more aggressive, because that's a...aggressive is

42:22

a weird word, because aggressive

42:24

isn't the same thing as like, you

42:26

know... Heaper? No,

42:29

just like a excitable puppy, like

42:31

that's not aggression necessarily. But it definitely

42:33

did not chill him out at all.

42:36

Yeah, yeah, I don't know that it's supposed

42:39

to, but yeah, I think some people think

42:41

it does. But the idea that it would

42:43

make a dog more aggressive, so it had

42:45

like no impact on him as far as

42:47

like his energy level went is what you're

42:50

saying. Yeah. So imagine

42:52

if he was generally like that before,

42:54

and then you neutered him, and then

42:56

he started like biting people. Yeah,

42:58

for sure. That's what happens with some dogs, and they're

43:00

like, well, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. One

43:03

of the explanations is that we

43:05

think testosterone is tied up with

43:07

confidence more than aggression, and

43:10

that a dog that has

43:12

this chemical confidence removed through

43:14

neutering can actually become more

43:16

nervous, and nervous dogs frequently

43:18

will bite or bark more

43:20

than they did when

43:23

they had confidence via testosterone.

43:25

Yeah, and that ties in perfectly to

43:27

the fact that, and this to me

43:29

is one of the facts of the show, but

43:32

they have done studies, and male

43:34

athletes, like superior male

43:37

athletes, actors, believe it

43:39

or not, blue collar

43:41

workers and confidence artists, con

43:43

men, they all have

43:45

above average levels of testosterone.

43:48

Yeah, so there you have it. So too, all

43:51

right, case closed. So too,

43:53

though, and this is the state of study

43:56

right now with studying the stuff where

43:58

we're relating human behavior. behavior to

44:00

hormones like testosterone or estrogen.

44:04

There's results like that out there, but we

44:07

arrive at the question, well, wait a minute, do

44:10

people who have higher levels of testosterone

44:12

naturally gravitate to those professions, or

44:15

does being in a profession like

44:17

acting or being a con man

44:20

raise your testosterone levels? They're

44:22

like, well, hold on. Okay, I got

44:24

this. We're going to go study prisoners,

44:26

specifically violent criminal offenders, and

44:29

see what their testosterone levels are like.

44:31

Sure enough, they found that their testosterone

44:33

levels were above average, but

44:36

that still raises the question, do

44:39

higher levels of testosterone make you

44:41

more prone to any social violent

44:43

behavior, or does being in prison

44:45

raise your levels of testosterone? We

44:47

still don't know at this point.

44:50

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting, because I think a lot

44:52

of people, like the general, just

44:54

old way of thinking was like, of course it does. Right.

44:58

Yeah. What they're finding, they think, is

45:00

that it's more

45:02

that testosterone is

45:05

released when you need it. Yeah,

45:07

that meets the occasion. Right. It's

45:09

not the thing that's driving the behavior. It's like,

45:12

oh, this guy says it's go time. We better

45:14

release some testosterone to keep it going. Yeah.

45:17

This next thing is super interesting to me. Moment

45:22

to moment throughout your day, your testosterone is going

45:24

to rise and fall some. They

45:28

have found that if you lose a

45:32

running race, or a one-on-one, or a

45:34

basketball game, or an arm

45:36

wrestling match, or even a chess

45:38

match, you

45:41

will lose testosterone. It's

45:43

not even necessarily can be something as

45:46

cerebral as a chess match, but losing

45:48

reduces your testosterone, winning increases

45:50

and boosts your testosterone. They

45:54

even found, this is crazy to me,

45:57

that They sampled male voters

45:59

for like a the election and

46:01

just your. Candidate. Losing.

46:05

Causes. A drop in testosterone. Yeah

46:08

minutes. Every on

46:10

Mccain voters because it was the two

46:12

thousand and eight election. Yeah, It's.

46:14

Crazy. Third, yeah, it's It's like it's

46:16

unbelievable. Like winning and losing. Even.

46:19

If you're not, Participating.

46:21

other than voting yes so

46:23

they they also found that

46:25

they think. That

46:28

social expectations can kind of

46:30

module a behavior, right? And

46:32

this is kinda ties into the idea

46:35

that I'm. Testosterone. Kind

46:37

of helps foster a response rather

46:39

than triggering a response right? right?

46:42

Sub Essentially what they found is that.

46:45

With testosterone levels we can correlated

46:47

as far as if if you

46:49

are having. So if you're faced

46:51

with a firefight situation and you

46:53

choose to fight. You. Probably

46:55

are experiencing in a tix

46:58

in testosterone levels. Begin.

47:00

That you didn't have to Saturn and knows

47:02

using the fight. They. Think the exact

47:04

opposite is true that you've chosen to fight

47:06

and your testosterone levels go up. On.

47:09

The other hand, they found that

47:11

if you choose to flee or

47:13

same not be aggressive, your cortisol

47:16

levels your stress hormone levels increase.

47:18

So our response. Seems.

47:20

To be based on what we think

47:22

society will either reward or punish and

47:24

then based on our decision from that

47:26

our hormones chicken to help kind of

47:28

carry out whatever response we decide to

47:31

go with. So. One other thing

47:33

that I found was that I'm. That.

47:35

Surprised me. Is. That testosterone isn't

47:37

just made in like the testes or

47:39

the ovaries depending on your sex assigned

47:41

at birth. But

47:43

that it's actually made locally in the

47:46

brain. And. They assess from

47:48

can also be transformed into different heads

47:50

of estrogen in the bring to and

47:52

they think that locally produced is what

47:55

it's called on testosterone in like our

47:57

our neural pathways. Has

47:59

more more of an effect on behavior,

48:01

mood, that kind of stuff then the

48:04

stuff. It's maiden the testes or the

48:06

ovaries. And. That actually accounts for

48:08

some the baffling results we've gotten Where

48:10

you know if you if you take

48:12

the a blood sample of somebody and

48:14

find that their they they were just

48:16

be aggressive. but their blood doesn't show

48:18

any kind of spite and testosterone. Well

48:20

that would account for that because it's

48:22

not the stuff that's floating around in

48:24

their blood that's making them do that,

48:26

it's the locally produced testosterone in their

48:28

brain and that's you know, connecting with

48:30

their migdal or something like that is

48:32

making that, helping them their aggressiveness I

48:34

guess along. And. Now I

48:36

know everyone wants to get to

48:38

the the part about sex and

48:40

what what testosterone does there And

48:43

testosterone. Does me no

48:45

sort of directly ramp up the sex drive in

48:47

men and women. Ah, and they

48:49

have done trials where they have

48:51

shown that it increases the libido.

48:53

But I'm. Just because

48:56

you're T. falls. Doesn't necessarily

48:58

mean it's going to a decrease

49:00

your libido. It can, but it

49:02

doesn't. That doesn't mean that has

49:04

to, right? Yeah,

49:07

game. It's just said. This is baffling

49:09

results we get sometimes from. I'm.

49:12

To studies of of what we presume

49:14

has to do with testosterone or estrogen

49:17

and. In it just doesn't quite died

49:19

or eight so I guess now we can sort

49:21

of finish up with. Some.

49:23

Tacos, Intersex people And where we stand

49:25

Now with hormone therapy right? Yeah,

49:28

because one group that there's a lot of

49:30

different people besides. Post.

49:33

Menopausal or Perry Menopausal women who

49:35

take a hormone replacement therapy Intersex

49:37

people people who are born with

49:39

an ambiguous and to tell you

49:41

because like read mention that that

49:43

whole amazingly intricate dance of. Chemicals

49:45

and hormones or during development fetal development

49:48

and just take one step to the

49:50

left or when sub says rights and

49:52

of a sudden there's just so different

49:54

outcomes that as a some people in

49:57

some people take hormone replacement therapy to

49:59

him. Either become more

50:01

like a the the gender they presumed

50:03

that they would have been assigned at

50:06

birth. Of the gender that they feel

50:08

like they're assigned at birth but they're

50:10

genitally doesn't quite match. Delighted for outcomes

50:12

that are basically considered conditions that you

50:14

can tend to help alleviate with hormone

50:17

replacement. So different outcome that as a

50:19

some people and some people take a

50:21

hormone replacement therapy to bomb. Either

50:24

become more like a the the gender they

50:26

presumed that they would have been assigned at

50:28

birth of the gender. That they feel

50:31

like they assigned at birth, but they're

50:33

genitalium doesn't quite match Decided for outcomes

50:35

that are basically considered conditions that you

50:37

can kind of help alleviate with hormone

50:39

replacement. Yeah for sure another one and

50:42

I'm pretty sure we talked about this and are.

50:45

Female. Puberty episode was starting

50:47

the nineteen forties. And. Maybe

50:49

even before that. I'm. Estrogen

50:52

therapy and hormone treatment could

50:54

help. Basically do what they

50:56

would say like you know you don't want your

50:58

daughter to grow too tall. So. They

51:00

would use a hormone blockers. you don't see

51:03

that as much. Today was called precocious puberty

51:05

which is Nina still a thing that can

51:07

happen. I think if you enter puberty. Think

51:10

it's like a year to two or

51:12

what's considered too early or you notice

51:14

with outside the normal range. You

51:17

can also use these hormone blocking drugs.

51:20

Ah, I mean

51:22

they still use and today but that is

51:24

not like say don't go to towards basically

51:27

distance save off puberty and to halt precocious

51:29

puberty and it's tracks. Are. Also

51:31

if you are a trance kid. Or

51:33

you can use a hormone blockers to

51:36

to sort of hit the pause button

51:38

to give you a little time to

51:40

decide what kind of puberty to go

51:42

through. Yeah, because once you go through

51:44

puberty, particularly if you think it was

51:46

the wrong puberty for the gender you

51:48

identify with. They're. Going

51:50

to be changes that are

51:52

essentially irreversible aside from surgery.

51:55

Like. If you go through female puberty,

51:57

Ah, but Euro trains mail. You

52:00

you're still going to have breasts that have

52:02

to be removed. Or if you're trans woman

52:04

and you went to male puberty, your vocal

52:06

chords are gonna figure in of a deeper

52:08

voice and maybe an Adam's apple surgery will

52:10

have to remove. That's that's how powerful. The.

52:13

The hormones that get released in the

52:15

amounts as a get released in during

52:17

puberty. so if you're not quite sure

52:20

which sender you belong to yet. Using

52:22

hormone blockers can actually help. Kind of. like you

52:25

said, buy you some time until you figure out

52:27

which way you want to go. Year

52:29

and sars testosterone therapy goes. Ah,

52:32

If you have a a deficiency

52:34

in testosterone. Because. Of hypo

52:36

go netizen or maybe from Hiv or

52:39

something like that. Is. Have a ski

52:41

I'm can to help with that. Ah, Also

52:43

problems like. And. Here's where

52:45

it gets a little tricky: Depression:

52:47

Low muscle mass, Low Energy. There's.

52:50

Some evidence that can prove sexual function,

52:52

but not as much that it can

52:54

increase your low energy if you're just.

52:57

Sort. Of losing testosterone at that normal

52:59

rate of like one. Ah, what

53:01

Was it a him or madame.

53:04

One. Percent a year. I think that One

53:06

percent. Yeah, One percent a year. And but

53:08

if you have an actual deficiency, They've.

53:10

Shown that it can improve a sexual function

53:12

and just don't have as much proof with

53:15

energy level. So does that mean that the

53:17

add that has Frank Thomas and Doug Flutie

53:19

and it took us about how they're like

53:22

crossing their work out with actually doesn't work.

53:25

Well, I don't know. Third to saying that

53:27

they're claiming their does have a natural a

53:29

decline in age or if they had a

53:31

deficiency to begin with. cassettes that seems to

53:34

be the differentiating factor. Jeff Fisher. Who

53:36

knows that mean was color, Doug, Flutie, and. To.

53:39

Get him on the horns, Exactly. I

53:42

use anything else. Ah,

53:44

I get that else. I got nothing

53:46

else either. This is a very enlightening

53:48

podcast. Episode. Us and say. Stuff.

53:51

Blah suffered a know about and now

53:53

I know more and you still shouldn't

53:56

take my advice medically speaking. The never

53:58

us and Six had never. after a

54:00

nice hearty chuckle, it means it's time for Mr.

54:02

Mabel. But

54:30

on March 23rd, 1931, the Pleasant

54:32

Hill tragedy near Towner, Colorado, was

54:35

because it had a blizzard that came in that morning.

54:37

The school shut down, sent the kids home,

54:39

and one of the school buses ran off the road, stuck

54:42

in the snow for 30 plus hours, resulting

54:44

in the death of five of the 20 students and

54:46

the bus driver. Oh my God. The

54:48

aftermath theorized that a brightly painted school bus would

54:50

have been much easier to spot in the whiteout

54:53

and might not have sat waiting so long to be

54:55

found. So buses in Colorado adopted the

54:57

yellow standard by 1939, and

55:00

the proposal for Mr. Sire became

55:03

a national standard. Unfortunately,

55:05

it was a reactive, not proactive, solution

55:09

brought on by a spring blizzard on

55:11

the plains of eastern Colorado. That

55:13

is from John Colts, and

55:15

I was just curious. John didn't say, I guess that

55:17

school bus might have been white? I

55:20

would think so. Yeah, not

55:22

a great color. No, no, for

55:24

sure. Thanks a lot, John. That

55:26

was a really amazing email. Never heard of that one.

55:28

It's terrible. If you want

55:30

to bring us down terribly like John did, you can

55:32

send us an email. Wrap it

55:34

up, spank it on the bottom, and

55:37

send it off to StuffedPodcast.iHeartRadio.com. stuffedion.io

55:42

is a production of iHeartRadio. For

55:45

more podcasts on my heart radio, visit

55:47

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever

55:49

you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks

55:55

for watching. The

56:00

second season of El Flow is here.

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Step into the ever-evolving world of

56:05

Reggaeton and get up close with

56:07

both legendary figures and emerging talents

56:09

in the industry. Part

56:11

of the enormous significance of Reggaeton

56:13

is really the way in which

56:15

personal narratives connect to larger things

56:17

going on historically and socially. Listen

56:21

to El Flow on the iHeartRadio app,

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your podcasts. Buena

56:28

buenas mis amores, this is

56:30

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56:32

My Owelita First, each week.

56:34

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56:37

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flirty, and hilarious game show. Let's see

56:45

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56:47

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56:51

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