0:01

Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production

0:04

of I Heart Radio. Hey,

0:11

and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

0:13

There's Charles w. Cute as a

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button Bryant, and there's

0:17

Jerry squee rolland and

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this is stuff you should know of the podcast.

0:24

A cute addition, that's right,

0:26

the science a cute. Yeah,

0:28

I'm excited about this when I've been wanting to do it for

0:30

a while. I remember, like that

0:32

was one of the first things you ever said to me when we met

0:35

in the office, how cute

0:37

you are? Well? No, we were in the break

0:39

room and I saw a picture of

0:42

a baby panda and

0:44

I just started to melt, and

0:46

you went, hey, jerk, you

0:50

ever wonder why you think things are cute?

0:52

I bet there's science behind that. Maybe

0:55

we should talk about it one day, and

0:57

look here we are. What was that, well

1:00

thirteen years ago almost man,

1:03

you really responded to that aggression into

1:08

so chuck. Have

1:11

you ever heard of Mickey Mouse?

1:15

Oh? I know several

1:18

mice, but I've never heard of Mickey Mouse. You've

1:20

only heard of Modeled Muck and

1:22

Ricky Rouse. Um,

1:25

well, let me tell you about Mickey Mouse. He's actually

1:27

the mascot of a very large entertainment

1:29

corporation called Disney.

1:32

Uh. They own Walt Disney

1:34

World, Walt Disneyland. I

1:36

think ABC owns them. They're they're affiliated

1:39

with ESPN. They're very, very big. But

1:41

they have this mascot. It's a mouse and

1:44

his name's Mickey. He's

1:46

he's kind of big, especially abroad.

1:49

Um. But if you look at Mickey today,

1:52

you think, wow, that's a really cute mouse. Doesn't

1:54

really look like a mouse. He's black and white basically

1:57

are brownish and black. Um.

1:59

But also his few teachers are very much

2:01

not mouse like. But if you

2:03

were to go back and look at the beginning of

2:05

Mickey, I think he's from

2:08

the nine twenties, like nineteen twenties. In

2:11

his earliest cartoons, he looked a lot

2:13

more mousey like cartoon mouse,

2:15

but he had, you know, his pointed features,

2:18

not nearly as cute. But then if

2:20

you fast forward about ten years later, by

2:22

the time rolls around and

2:24

he's in something called The Brave Taylor that

2:27

was one of his shorts, UM

2:30

where I think he defeats a giant or something

2:32

like that. Um, he looks full

2:34

blown Mickey Mouse, but he looks way cuter

2:37

and they had done a few things to him. They had like made

2:39

his eyes bigger, they've made his features rounder

2:41

less pointed. Um, he had big

2:44

gloves and big shoes. Now

2:46

he's kind of plump and oversized features,

2:49

and he had gotten cute. And

2:51

the scientist Stephen Jay Gould,

2:54

who really deserves his own episode

2:56

like Carl Sagan does, Um, just

2:58

a really interesting dude. Um.

3:01

He said that Disney

3:03

and his animators had stumbled

3:05

upon something that the

3:08

zoologists and mythologist Conrad

3:10

Lawrence UM termed can

3:13

can schema. I think I got that right

3:15

right. Uh yeah, can can

3:17

schema very nice. Um.

3:20

But like years before

3:22

Conrad Lawrence ever did that, they had just

3:24

kind of naturally figured out like, oh,

3:26

this can be way more appealing if we if

3:29

we exaggerate these particular features.

3:31

And it turns out what they had done is

3:33

make him literally cut

3:36

by the very scientific definition of

3:38

cuteness. Yeah. So Lawrence

3:41

was an Austrian scientist and

3:43

in the forties came up with this. And

3:45

this made me feel quite good about myself actually looking

3:47

over this list about physical

3:50

qualities that um,

3:53

and it's not just a person came me an animal. As we'll see

3:55

a lot of this is animal based. But

3:58

these things, these traits that would

4:00

evoke a positive response, a very strong

4:02

positive response, and they are large

4:05

head. M that's me, um,

4:08

high protruding forehead. I've

4:10

always said you have a five head. If any,

4:13

it's it's average, large

4:15

eyes, sort of average, chubby

4:17

cheeks bingo. Oh,

4:19

you should make the cheeks make a sonic

4:21

appearance. Very nice.

4:24

It's been years, still as moist

4:26

as ever. Sorry, everyone. Uh,

4:28

chubby cheeks, small nose, I'm an average

4:30

nose, small mouth, and chin I'd

4:33

say average short, thick

4:35

extremities, actually have sort

4:37

of skinny legs. I'll carry my weight between my chin

4:39

and my belt. Plump body

4:41

shape. Bingo. So

4:44

I am scientifically half cute. You

4:46

are very cute. I mean that's definitely.

4:49

It's not even up for debate. Really, I

4:52

used to get called cute by the ladies. Not handsome,

4:54

but cute. There's definitely I

4:56

saw that. Um. Paul McCartney

4:58

hated being known as the cute beetle,

5:01

probably for the same you know, the same

5:03

differences that you just mentioned, probably,

5:06

but the the like what you just said, this

5:08

list you just you just um you rattled

5:10

off. That is Lawrence's kinkin

5:13

schema or baby schema or

5:15

baby nous, which is basically like, if you put all these

5:18

things together, you have what amounts

5:20

to what we humans consider

5:22

cute, and you can extrapolate, like you were

5:24

saying, not just onto babies,

5:26

but onto other animals and even

5:28

onto like cartoon characters.

5:31

Yeah, you either have these things and you're regarded

5:34

as cute, or you don't and you're not exactly.

5:36

Yeah, that's a really good point that you can you

5:39

can not only have this, you can also

5:41

lack it, and that that has

5:43

that modulates our response to whatever

5:46

that thing is. Yeah, and it's also

5:49

important to point out that this is these are

5:51

guidelines, scientific sort

5:53

of guidelines and truisms, but not across

5:56

the board like some people. Beauty is in the

5:58

eye of the beholder and cuteness is sure,

6:00

So some people might look at a baby, I

6:03

don't know, just some sort of weird reptilian

6:05

thing that has none of these traits and

6:07

think it's super cute as well.

6:10

Right, Yeah, yeah, it is kind of subjective,

6:13

but there does seem to be um

6:19

if not universal or widely tapped

6:21

into sense of what's cute and

6:23

what's not. You know what, I mean, yeah, still,

6:26

let me rephrase that the person that thinks the baby

6:28

lizard that has none of these traits is cute, they

6:31

probably also think the panda is cute, right,

6:34

you know what I'm saying, Right, Yeah, they're probably not disgusted

6:36

or just totally turn off that

6:39

dirty, ugly baby kitten. And

6:42

so so Lawrence was um. He

6:44

compiled this list based on his observations,

6:46

and I guess from what I read, like

6:49

this whole study of cuteness is

6:51

pretty young as far as scientific investigation

6:54

goes, So you know that we're still figuring it out.

6:56

It's still developing as it goes along. Some

6:58

of the study is involved or

7:01

fairly suspect, but there seems to be this

7:03

this kind of general

7:08

acceptance of Lawrenz's k

7:10

Kinkin schema, which is that it

7:13

was just it's so it's so obviously

7:16

correct that from what I

7:18

read, some people just haven't even

7:20

investigated, which is good and bad. Um.

7:23

Lawrence was a behaviorist

7:26

and he actually we met him first in our

7:28

animal imprinting episode, which was a really

7:30

good one, but he studied that, um.

7:33

But he put this all together to study behaviors,

7:35

and what he was studying is exactly

7:37

how babies UM

7:40

get adult humans who

7:42

may not even be their parents to

7:44

respond to them in a way that um, that

7:47

adult wants to take care of

7:49

that baby. And what he what

7:51

he came up with was this kinkin schema cuteness.

7:55

Uh. What he said unlocks

7:57

um innate instincts in

8:00

humans that basically triggers

8:02

like automatic behaviors like oh,

8:05

I want to make sure that you stay alive, so I'm going

8:07

to go find you some food that kind of stuff.

8:10

Yeah, And it corresponds to helplessness

8:12

at birth. There's a direct correlation

8:15

between um, how

8:17

cute you look and how

8:20

how little you can get buy in your own In

8:22

the animal kingdom, um, most

8:24

mammals are born very

8:26

small, very helpless. Uh

8:29

many months sometimes weeks, sometimes months,

8:31

sometimes years of care before they

8:33

can go off and kind of do their own thing. That's called

8:35

altricial. What to take to

8:38

being born helpless? You're altricial. Yeah,

8:40

so if you're altricial, you're

8:43

probably almost more

8:46

cute than an animal

8:48

that is born that can kind of run

8:50

right out and do things on their own, probably

8:53

not as cute. That's precociale

8:56

altricial and precocial, right, and and

8:59

the thing is is like, if you

9:01

step back, like it's just so easy

9:03

to just overlook this, and if you really start to think

9:05

about this, cuteness has been this adaptive,

9:09

I guess, evolutionary trait that's just been

9:11

hiding and plain sight until Lawrence

9:14

really put his finger on it. But if

9:16

you step back and think about it, there's

9:18

no there's no innate

9:21

or there's no reason that a baby

9:23

has in and of itself to evoke

9:26

a response and a human even

9:28

its parents, um to want

9:31

to take care of it, but it needs that

9:33

because it is an altricial species. Humans

9:35

are an altricial species. They'll they'll

9:37

just die out if you don't

9:39

take care of a baby, and if enough babies

9:42

die out, eventually humanity dies out, the species

9:44

dies out. So it's an adaptation

9:47

to make somebody

9:49

want to take care of you. And that

9:52

is what Lawrence figured out. That cuteness

9:55

is that trigger that we find babies

9:58

cute and it makes us want

10:00

to take care of them. And that is one of

10:02

the most mind blowing things I know. Yeah,

10:05

I mean if you look at human babies. Human

10:08

babies are born pretty

10:10

early in their development, like if um

10:13

all things being equal. Human babies should

10:16

probably be born six months

10:18

later than they are, but

10:20

they're not. Human babies come out very early.

10:23

They come out before their little

10:25

fontanelles are even formed, and they

10:28

need a lot of care and

10:30

uh, they're they're

10:34

born that Like, human babies are

10:37

small so they can fit out of the birth

10:39

canal. Their little noses are

10:42

cartilage so they don't get broken

10:44

on the way out. Like you

10:47

know, babies should have larger

10:49

heads and should have like that

10:51

should but you know what I'm saying, fully

10:53

formed like strong noses, but

10:55

they wouldn't be able to to come out of a

10:57

lady if that was the case. Yeah, because

11:00

our brains are have have developed to be so

11:02

big, and our craniums have developed in

11:04

in response to that that like we're

11:07

evolutionarily speaking or developmentally

11:10

speaking, we're underdeveloped when

11:12

we're born, even though we're we

11:14

would have been born at like a normal normal

11:16

gestation period for a human compared

11:19

to other species. It's like you're, this

11:21

kid's out a little. This kid hasn't baked

11:23

fully, you know what I'm saying. And so that

11:26

really makes human babies even

11:28

among you know, other mammals that are

11:30

altricial super dependent

11:32

on caregivers to make sure that it survives.

11:35

Yeah. So, like a human baby's head is really

11:38

large compared to their body.

11:40

Um, and these are you know, these are some of the cuteness

11:43

traits that we mentioned early. On their

11:45

eyes. You know, your eyes don't really grow. Your eyes

11:47

are about the same size. I didn't know that, did

11:49

you. Yeah, that's why when

11:51

you look at some babies and you're like, look how huge their

11:54

eyes are, it's just because they're on a little

11:56

tiny face. It makes sense, But I just had

11:58

never known that you're born basically

12:01

the size that they're going to be when you grow up.

12:03

I think if you really work them out, they can beef up a little

12:05

bit. Though. We

12:08

mentioned those tiny little noses super cute

12:10

and very bendy. Um,

12:13

they're little baby cheeks and everything soft

12:15

so you can get out of that birth canal. And

12:19

you know, formula and mother's milk keep

12:21

you kind of chunky and full.

12:24

Um. You know, nobody's gonna put a baby on a diet,

12:27

no good lord, no. Um.

12:30

The skin is very loosed and soft. H.

12:32

So you know, if you go through a big gross spurt,

12:35

it doesn't you know, split open sounds

12:38

gross. Uh, and then you

12:40

know the way babies move, it's just just very cute

12:42

there. Babies are awkward and they're clumsy,

12:44

and um, they don't like have the

12:47

definition to like manipulate

12:49

these these muscle groups very well. Yet Yeah,

12:52

and it's awkward and gawky and super

12:54

cute. All of this stuff together is

12:56

cute to us. And it raises the question,

12:59

like, did babies evolved human

13:01

babies evolved to fit our definition of

13:03

cute or did our definition Actually

13:05

I've seen both. I've seen

13:08

both. So it makes sense that like our definition

13:10

of what's cute and what we respond to is cute

13:12

would be based on the average human

13:15

baby. But you can also

13:17

take an average human baby and tweak,

13:21

like digitally, um, a picture

13:23

of a baby and tweak it to maximum

13:26

cuteness. And so there's this other

13:28

idea that Okay, maybe originally

13:30

our idea of cuteness was based on baby

13:33

features, But the cutest

13:35

babies would um logically

13:38

get the most response and would

13:40

be the most the most likely yeah, and would

13:42

be the most likely to survive

13:44

and thrive and go on to reproduce. So

13:47

it is entirely possible that we

13:49

have a speed as a species have gotten

13:51

cuter over the over the eons

13:54

because of selection of the for the cutest

13:56

babies. Well, and that's been

13:58

critical to our serve bible. Um.

14:02

You know it's uh when

14:04

you see something like that, when you see a baby chick, you

14:07

your instinct is to pick it up and

14:09

cradle it and make sure you know

14:11

that a tree branch

14:13

doesn't fall on it, right, And

14:15

that's the same goes for babies. Yeah, because

14:18

they share a lot of the same similarities,

14:20

the same kin kin kin schema. I

14:22

wish that ken wasn't in there. I wish it was just

14:25

kin den schema. Call it that. Then. I

14:27

don't want to get things wrong all the time,

14:30

and we do. We do. It's usually not

14:32

purposefully, you know, Okay, But

14:34

um, that same

14:36

set of traits can apply

14:39

to other animals. It was like you

14:41

were saying, you know, animals that fall into that set

14:43

of traits appear cute to us, and

14:45

we want to save them, we want to take care of

14:47

them. Um. Like a little baby

14:50

giraffe has huge eyes,

14:53

its features are kind of small compared to a larger

14:55

adult draft which even adult drafts

14:57

are awfully cute. But one of the things

14:59

that a baby draft is going to get

15:02

you with is hobbling around

15:04

trying to stand up that first time I hit you

15:06

with those little shaky legs look out.

15:08

Yeah, and that reminds us or reminds

15:11

some very ancient part of our brain of

15:13

human infant, you know, like

15:15

developing its motor skill. So it

15:18

seems like it's not

15:20

like our brains are confused, like you're not looking

15:22

at a baby giraffe, like, look

15:24

at that baby human. I love it.

15:26

It's just it triggers the

15:29

same part of the brain that

15:31

seeing a human infant does, um,

15:34

because of that same set of characteristics.

15:36

Yeah, Like, there was a study I found on mental

15:38

flaws from two thousand nine where

15:41

scientists reported that, uh,

15:44

people in the study that viewed really cute

15:46

images of puppies and kittens performed

15:48

better in the game of Operation you know, the

15:50

kids game than people who saw

15:53

less like that saw pictures of grown up dogs

15:55

and cats. So it just innately

15:57

triggers this care response.

16:00

It's really really interesting. Yeah. And so

16:02

what Lorenz called that innate releasers,

16:05

that that you see a cute

16:07

baby and the cuteness acts

16:09

as an innate releaser, which triggers a

16:12

set of inborn instincts in

16:14

every human to take care of that baby, and

16:16

that one apparently hasn't necessarily borne

16:18

out. But there is a lot of or

16:21

there's an increasing amount of documentation

16:23

about how seeing something cute

16:25

affects the brain. And I propose that we take

16:28

a commercial break and then come back and talk

16:30

about that afterwards. We'll

16:32

be right back. I

17:00

think I has a commercial break. Sure, I

17:04

now it's in the in the survey, it's like an after

17:06

school special all of a sudden, so

17:08

um, I think before

17:10

we dive into what you're talking about, I do want to mention

17:12

the wolf puppy thing. I

17:15

thought it was pretty interesting, is that

17:17

there is an example of a

17:19

co evolved trait with

17:21

the human brain that triggers that cuteness response

17:24

when you look at wolves wild wolves apparently,

17:27

and these were predogs. Basically, Um,

17:30

they don't have this muscle called

17:33

the uh. Here we go with some Latin.

17:35

I guess uh leabator angouli

17:38

oculi. Mettie Alice

17:41

just made a demon appere Oh

17:43

my god, Um,

17:45

this muscle they don't have in their eyebrows,

17:47

and apparently that is the muscle that can

17:49

make what we think of as puppy dog eyes. Dogs

17:53

that came later did of all that muscle, and

17:55

then we're bred for it because it

17:57

made people melt inside. Uh

18:00

so that's why wolves, which is interesting,

18:02

like wolves have that sort of scowl and they

18:04

can't help it. But then I looked at wolf

18:07

puppy pictures and it's pretty cute. But

18:10

maybe it's not in the eyes. I don't know. Yeah,

18:12

I don't know what it is either, but that I think that raises

18:15

a really good question that also kind of points

18:17

out it like this, this research

18:19

is still very young, and there's contradictory

18:22

information coming in and a lot of it is just based

18:24

on intuition and that kind of thing. But

18:27

there are, like you said, there's

18:29

that there are people walking around who think, like that baby

18:31

lizard is super cute. You know what I'm saying, Like

18:33

it it's not entirely universal,

18:36

and you know, maybe those wolf puppies

18:38

have some other traits that have nothing to do with

18:40

the eyes that that are hijacking

18:43

your brain. The point that stands

18:45

out to me is that that that

18:48

caregiving instinct that Lorenz

18:50

pointed out, or whatever whatever weird

18:52

brain pathway we have, um, that's

18:54

triggered by seeing something cute, is that it extends

18:57

beyond humans. And I think that that kind of

19:00

that that makes humanity as a species

19:02

like that much greater in my

19:04

opinion, that like that caregiving

19:06

impulse can extend

19:09

beyond humans. And I mean that explains

19:11

pets right there. Like, I don't think we would have pets

19:13

if that wasn't true, you know,

19:15

I mean, we'd have like guard dogs or something still,

19:17

but you know, not a pet. There

19:20

would be German shepherds. There'd

19:22

be nothing but and they'd all be mean as as

19:24

snakes. And we probably have snakes too.

19:26

That rode the German shepherds. They

19:28

still wouldn't be pets. Baby snakes not

19:30

so cute. There's also that weird thing where something

19:33

is so ugly it's cute as

19:35

a young thing. Okay, so that's

19:37

a Japanese term. We'll talk about

19:39

kawaie later. But there's something called chemo

19:41

kawaii, which is called gross

19:43

cute. Interesting. Yeah, they

19:46

they've they've got it. That's something they're like

19:48

the Germans, but further east,

19:50

they have like a name and a term in idea for

19:52

everything. You know. All right, we'll put a pin in

19:54

that because we did promise the science

19:56

of cute. So we're gonna have to look at

19:58

um, we're gonna have to look at the brain and actually

20:01

what's going on there. And

20:03

they've done that of course. UM. They've

20:05

put people in the Wonder machine and they

20:07

have shown people pictures of baby faces to see

20:09

what lights up. And when that happens,

20:11

you get a really strong immediate response

20:14

and what's called the orbitofrontal

20:17

cortex, which is where we regulate

20:19

our emotions and our pleasure, and it's a really

20:21

really fast response, um

20:24

one seven of a second. Um.

20:26

It doesn't take long when you see that baby

20:29

or that puppy or whatever you don't it doesn't

20:31

take you long to to immediately think,

20:33

I need to care for that thing and hold that thing.

20:36

Yeah, Because so that orbitofrontal

20:38

cortex UM apparently

20:40

has something to do with the reward system.

20:43

So your attention is captured very quickly

20:46

and you get a little burst of

20:48

of pleasure from seeing that that cute

20:50

baby. And then there's another thing too

20:53

that that that came out of that two thousand

20:55

nine study using operation that

20:58

all of a sudden, you're attention

21:01

is very much focused and you can complete

21:03

tasks um much better

21:06

or at least remarkably

21:08

better. Um, then you could without

21:11

seeing something cute. So it

21:13

really does suggest we have this inborn

21:16

pathway to respond to something cute

21:18

in a pleasurable way with warm feelings.

21:21

Um, that trigger an ability

21:24

a greater or more focused ability to do

21:26

something like, for example, care

21:28

for or feed a baby or that kind

21:31

of thing that's that seems to be borne

21:33

out like Lawrence's innate release,

21:35

or seems to be being discovered um

21:38

by neurology right now. Which is interesting

21:40

though, because caring for a baby is not, in

21:43

my experience, something you need that kind of focus

21:45

for. It's not like putting together a

21:48

little model house with tiny pieces of furniture.

21:51

Um, it's just like keep this thing

21:53

alive. Right, But maybe maybe

21:55

that's like, um, rather than being

21:57

like, oh you know, I think i'll

22:00

I'd rather break the law of the law and instead

22:02

and you just stop feeding the baby leaves

22:05

you know what I'm saying, Like your your attention to

22:07

the task at hand. He's a little more focused,

22:09

so you're less distracted. Yeah,

22:12

that's what kind of focus. Sure. Yeah,

22:14

Luckily it doesn't take much brains because it's

22:17

a lot of non smart parents out there. That is

22:20

true. Um So in

22:22

that response, that speedy response in the

22:24

orbitofrontal cortex when you see that baby, men

22:27

and women both have that same spike. But

22:30

I think women report stronger caregiving,

22:32

which they chalk up to just gender

22:34

roles basically and not necessarily

22:36

anything to do with the brain itself. Yeah,

22:38

because the same areas light up for men

22:41

and women, I guess to the same degree. It's just self

22:43

reported as different, right right. And

22:45

then apparently also like this, this is

22:47

not just um parents

22:49

who experienced this, like a human being

22:52

will or a typical human being will experience

22:55

this. Yeah, I mean that's the thing where

22:57

like, as an adoptive parent, you

23:00

know this is uh, my daughter is not my

23:02

seed. Um, but I

23:04

can't piplical it.

23:08

Um but I can't like I have nothing to base it

23:10

on. But I can't imagine a stronger

23:12

connection or a stronger instinct to care

23:15

give and um

23:18

so it's a It's an important trait clearly because

23:20

like you've seen movies where uh,

23:22

people find like a baby like abandoned

23:25

by the dumpster and that you know, you

23:27

run out and you know, I suppose some people might

23:29

just say call it in and say Hey,

23:31

there's a baby over here. I'm not going near it, but

23:34

a humans inclination is to run over and pick

23:36

that baby up and wrap it up in something

23:38

warm and then maybe

23:41

call the cops or whatever. Right, and

23:43

like you said, like run over there like that, like

23:45

it an urgent thing that that your

23:47

brain would just be like get over there, right, the

23:50

helpless thing out there by a dumpster, let's go get

23:52

it. Yeah. Um, that apparently

23:54

would come probably more from um

23:56

the baby's cry, which I guess

23:59

also a nights like the same

24:01

kind of um pathway

24:03

as cuteness does, but

24:06

it's a different it's slightly different. There's

24:08

not necessarily a reward. It's more like urgency.

24:11

And they call that a biological siren,

24:13

which which would you know, get you over

24:15

there really quickly, But it's not necessarily because

24:17

you saw you know, you you thought about how

24:19

cute the baby is in those swaddling clothes.

24:22

Right. Uh. Sound is definitely important.

24:24

Like that same study, if you hear babies laughter

24:28

or even as the smell of a baby, you

24:30

your brain lights up in the same way. Yeah.

24:32

So like that, we're presented with the entire

24:34

cute package of everything that's great

24:36

about babies, sounds, smell. They

24:38

are really deeply manipulative.

24:41

I think is is what you're meant to take

24:43

away from this episode. They are just tiny

24:45

little monsters saying like,

24:48

take care of me for eighteen years. That's

24:50

right, and possibly beyond. If I'm gen X

24:53

exactly, it was a gen X

24:56

or millennials. I don't know. I feel like there

24:58

were plenty of gen xers that lived in the Bay, right,

25:00

you're totally right, or maybe that's every generation, but

25:03

we weren't coddled as much. Oh

25:05

boy, you're

25:08

gonna get us canceled the boy. Uh

25:12

yeah, So let's move on from that. Oh

25:14

wait, here's another thing. And this is the satisfinding

25:16

Ever, when

25:18

they did the study, um that

25:21

that brain activity was diminished when

25:23

they were shown baby faces that

25:25

were had some sort of facial disruption,

25:28

like a cleft palate. And that is really

25:31

one of the saddest things you can imagine hearing. Yeah,

25:34

because I mean that would that would

25:36

account for you know what

25:39

I was talking about earlier about how cuteness is selected

25:42

for that there's this like

25:44

by no one's fault of their own, but just

25:46

through you know, the evolutionary process

25:48

of these these neural connections that

25:50

were born that are ready to make like wanting

25:53

to respond to something cute. If

25:55

you're presented with something that doesn't quite

25:58

line up with that king Kin

26:00

schema, Um, that baby

26:02

is going to have a much harder time getting

26:05

that same response from

26:07

from somebody than just a traditionally

26:10

cute baby. Well, it's it's

26:12

extraordinarily sad. I think we

26:14

need to do an episode on cleft palates too. That

26:16

that stood out to me that we haven't done that yet.

26:19

Yeah, or even worse than you know, in ancient times,

26:21

those babies would be walked out

26:23

to the woods and left, you know, yeah, for

26:25

sure, you know. Um,

26:28

Carl Lawrence apparently said that the Quby

26:30

doll, you know, our cup mayonnaise, So

26:33

the doll that that's based on if you take

26:35

a look at its face, Um,

26:37

that in Lawrence's opinion, that was the

26:40

maximum exaggeration that

26:43

you could reach of Kinkin

26:46

schema before violating

26:48

it, and that afterward what

26:50

was beyond it was that

26:53

wasn't coined at the time, but what he was talking

26:55

about was basically an uncanny valley like there's

26:57

your brain would start to be like, wait, there's something, so

27:00

thing is somewhat out of order

27:02

here. UM, So it's weird. There's

27:04

like a really apparently there's

27:06

a set a package of traits

27:08

that make up what is considered cute,

27:10

and straying outside of that,

27:13

UM just kind of violates

27:15

it in some weird way. It violates

27:17

like this this pathway that we're

27:20

we seem to be pre programmed to have.

27:23

I didn't know mayonnaise was going to make an appearance. I

27:26

I did because I saw the cuteie thing, But before

27:29

that I had no idea either. So

27:31

cuteness is going to activate other parts of the

27:33

brain. It's just not that superspeedy

27:36

response that you get in the orbitofrontal cortex.

27:39

UM. So if you're a parent

27:42

and you have a brain, UM,

27:44

you're gonna go undergo a really

27:47

kind of slow change. UM.

27:49

As you parent and as you take care of that

27:51

baby, in bond with that baby, as

27:53

they go into infancy. UM, you're gonna

27:56

still have that trigger of cuteness, but it's

27:58

just going to be a slower response and

28:00

more complex as far as your actual brain activity

28:03

goes. Yeah, and supposedly that co

28:06

evolves with the cuteness

28:08

of a baby, like a newborn baby

28:10

is just that. But like

28:12

you look at a baby some six months that same

28:15

baby, Yeah, you have to admit,

28:17

it's pretty infrequent for a baby to be cute

28:19

right out of the womb. Yeah,

28:22

I mean generally they're little alien

28:24

lizard type creatures. Sure, but

28:27

wait six months, and that same baby

28:29

is going to look awfully cute.

28:32

So and within right, and within

28:34

that six months, um, you're

28:36

going to have developed more

28:39

sophisticated responses, caretaking

28:41

responses to that baby's cuteness.

28:44

Um, it's pretty interesting that like they

28:46

both start to gel around the same time, the babies

28:48

start to hit pique cuteness and the

28:50

caregiving stuff becomes more

28:52

and more sophisticated. It goes from I need

28:55

to keep this baby alive to um,

28:57

you know what college is this baby? I'm

28:59

gonna get this baby through college kind of stuff.

29:01

You start thinking about that, right, and that sort

29:03

of brings back what we talked about earlier as

29:06

UM, like that that

29:09

empathetic, compassionate response

29:11

when it's not even your child, Yes,

29:15

when it's not even from the same species.

29:18

And and like you were saying, you know, people

29:21

tend to rate um,

29:23

the species that are most altricial

29:25

as the cutest because they need the most help.

29:27

So that pathway can be hijacked

29:30

by humans, human babies

29:33

and other species as well, and

29:35

by people who are trying to sell you stuff. As we'll

29:37

see. That's very true.

29:40

Break, Yes, all

29:43

right, we're gonna take your break and talk about qute aggression,

29:46

something that we're pretty familiar with right

29:48

after this. All

30:15

right, So I've talked before in the past

30:18

about my wife Emily, and uh,

30:21

when she sees puppies and babies

30:24

and other cute little things, she

30:27

uh, she says stuff like I

30:29

want to I want to punch

30:32

that baby in the face. I want to squeeze

30:34

the life out of it. I

30:36

want to I want to eat that puppy.

30:38

Like some things that sound genuinely horrific,

30:41

Maybe not, I want to punch that baby in the face. That's a different

30:44

I've seen that somewhere, but it's

30:46

a thing, and it's not just her, it's

30:48

an actual thing. It's called cute

30:51

aggression. When you see something

30:53

and you say, you know, I want

30:55

to put that puppy on a plate

30:57

and eat it,

31:00

which is, like you said, it's very weird when you

31:02

step back and think about it, um, and

31:04

it actually it's of a

31:06

very recent um investigation,

31:09

like I think two thirteen is the earliest

31:11

I saw um. And one of the people

31:13

who are leading the charge into studying

31:16

qute aggression is a Clemson

31:18

psychologist named Oriana aragon

31:20

Um, and she and some of her colleagues have really

31:23

kind of are are are establishing

31:26

this field of cute aggression.

31:29

And the reason why aragon is a pretty

31:31

good social psychologist to be investigating

31:33

this is because her specialty is dimorphous

31:36

expressions, which is contradictory

31:40

emotional indicators

31:43

that don't really seem to go together, but do

31:46

because it's just so common, like tears

31:48

of joy um or

31:50

nervous laughter, that kind of stuff, And

31:54

it seems that que aggression kind of falls

31:56

under that same umbrella. Yeah,

31:58

and it's interesting because you say, sure,

32:01

great, qute aggression. We've got a name for it that

32:03

doesn't really explain it though, and

32:07

it's explained kind of like nervous laughter or

32:09

tears of joy. It may

32:12

be a way of regulating something that's

32:14

just too overwhelming emotionally. So

32:16

when they study qute aggression, they

32:19

show people the cutest pictures of the cutest

32:21

things, see how the brain responds

32:24

and people who have the really

32:26

biggest cute aggressive

32:28

response, UM, their

32:31

brains are lighting up, but your reward

32:33

system is also lighting up at the same time, right,

32:36

but it's like an overwhelming

32:39

reward response, like you're just uh,

32:41

it's intolerable. Yeah, And so

32:43

the idea is that your

32:46

brain brings you down

32:48

from that um by

32:51

implementing like a not

32:54

complimentary what's the opposite of complimentary

32:57

m you're a big jerk,

32:59

that kind of UM,

33:01

that kind of emotion like anger or aggression

33:04

or hostility or something like that, to

33:06

balance it out and to bring you back down. Because it makes

33:08

sense that if you were just sitting there

33:11

experiencing overwhelming UM

33:14

cute overload like you would,

33:16

you might not ever get around defeating that baby.

33:19

You might just be sitting there like with your tongue

33:21

hanging out the side of your mouth, drooling. Yeah.

33:24

It's interesting because like a lot of times,

33:26

and I've heard a lot of other people say this, but like Emily

33:28

will say like I just want to squeeze that baby,

33:31

and that's followed up with I can't

33:33

even take it, Like I just can't even

33:35

take it with this cuteness, Like that's that's

33:37

literally true, Like your brain can't even

33:39

take it. So I thought it

33:42

was cute. Aragon Um came

33:44

up with a way to measure cute

33:46

aggression UM by using bubble

33:48

wrap. This I didn't quite understand this. She

33:51

would give um bubble wrap two people

33:53

and show them different pictures, and the pictures

33:56

that rated the highest in

33:58

cuteness UM

34:00

evoked or led

34:03

to the largest number of bubbles pops.

34:05

So the idea is like, if you see

34:07

something cute, pop bubbles

34:10

or just like here, hold this, and you just find

34:12

yourself popping them. I don't know. I

34:14

don't know that. I don't know actually

34:16

to tell you the truth, UM, I

34:18

think yeah. I think it's more it's meant to

34:21

be like an unconscious thing, Like

34:23

you're not supposed to be like, well, this is an eighty bubble

34:25

kitty, you know, nothing like that.

34:28

Or it's just like you look down you're like, oh my god, there's

34:30

no more bubbles left this that that cat was

34:32

so cute kind of thing. UM.

34:35

I saw another explanation for Q diggression

34:37

in that it's a response to a frustrated

34:40

desire for caregiving. So

34:42

where um, where

34:44

you want to go punch

34:47

that baby in the face. But you know, you'll spend a

34:49

significant amount of time in jail if you actually

34:52

do that, right, Like,

34:54

that's that's where that would come a from like

34:56

like that, you can't do that. It's not

34:58

your baby to go snug goal and cuddle

35:00

and take care of you can't. You

35:03

have to do it from a far exactly, So you have to

35:05

do it from afar. So it it it comes

35:07

out in this mixture of cute

35:10

response and aggression

35:13

or aggressive words or uh you

35:15

know that kind of thing well, and that also kind

35:17

of dovetails with the cute sadness, which

35:20

is I guess Aragon coined that term as

35:22

well. Is where um,

35:24

you see a puppy in

35:26

a window and you go oh, no or

35:29

ah or make a frowny face.

35:31

That's when you see a lot when you see something

35:33

really cute. And her theory is

35:35

that kind of like what you're just saying, like

35:37

that puppy is is uh

35:40

is in the crate at the adoption

35:42

place and you can't get to it, or it's just

35:44

walking down the street with somebody and you're driving

35:47

your car and you can't get to it. So you're expressing

35:49

a kind of a frustration that you can't

35:51

get out of the car and squeeze the puppy, right,

35:54

so you have to squeeze your sphincter instead.

35:56

But I guess it comes out

35:58

as disappointment though, yeah,

36:00

yeah, and it's it would seem to be frustrated,

36:04

a response to frustrated attempts at caregiving

36:06

or a frustrated desire to caregive because

36:08

you see something cute and

36:11

your caregiving instinct

36:13

is triggered or whatever you want to call it if you

36:15

don't don't agree with instinct, but there's

36:17

nothing you can do about it because you're driving and

36:20

that things going the other way, so you can't do anything

36:22

to to take care of it. So you have to

36:24

get that out somehow. And it seems like anger and

36:26

aggression is a good way for it to make

36:28

it subside quickly. But

36:30

again again I really want to point out here

36:33

this is this is intuitive

36:36

stuff. This is not stuff where it's like this

36:38

study backs the sub and this study backs this up. From

36:40

what I've seen, every single study in

36:43

cuteness and cute aggression, uh,

36:45

involves about a hundred and fifty

36:47

college undergrads as your

36:50

your your study population,

36:52

and they're popping bubble wrap and stuff like that like, it's

36:54

still very early in its research, but

36:56

it does make a lot of

36:58

sense, you know, But that doesn't necessarily

37:01

mean that's that's accurate. Just

37:03

take that and take that with a grain of salt

37:05

whatever that means. And it's also, um,

37:10

I'm not knocking the study, but it's also you

37:12

know, let's be honest, it's not the most important

37:14

thing in the world. No,

37:16

No, it's like interesting to understand. It makes

37:19

for good reading on an

37:21

internet article, but uh,

37:24

it's not driving Like, it's

37:26

not solving a problem, you know what I'm saying. I

37:29

suddenly feel like we're standing in the middle

37:31

of a vast glass house and we have

37:33

rocks in our hands right now. Oh

37:35

boy, I think it's fun to talk about. I mean,

37:38

that's what makes I mean, this is perfect podcast

37:40

spodder for sure. Um,

37:43

But like I'm curious that this could be applied

37:45

at all. I don't know. I

37:47

think maybe it's just one of those things where it's like,

37:49

now we understand that it's documented, it's understood,

37:52

so we understand humans a little more, and then maybe

37:54

it'll open some door to some other thing that we realize

37:57

was connected that. You know

37:59

that. Yeah, but I totally agree

38:01

with what you're saying. Yeah, but I think

38:03

you've pulled me any other direction. Nobel prize,

38:06

oh good God to send it their way. Good.

38:09

So you mentioned earlier about using the stuff to

38:11

sell things, and that is for

38:13

sure true. Um, you can't. I

38:15

mean, you look at any Pixar or

38:17

Disney cartoon or anime.

38:20

Certainly, Um, you're gonna see

38:22

round babies and you're gonna

38:24

see huge eyes. When

38:26

you see pamphlets that are

38:29

trying to sell stuff or or

38:31

try to get you to donate to an animal cause

38:34

or a children's foundation. Um,

38:36

they're probably gonna put a baby

38:39

or a puppy on that cover that has the

38:41

biggest, roundest face and eyes. It's

38:43

manipulative, Um, but used

38:46

for good generally. Yeah, yeah, totally.

38:48

It's almost like um, using music

38:50

in the background of an ad, you know, like

38:52

it's purposefully hijacking

38:56

a very ancient neural

38:58

pathway that basically all humans

39:00

have to get an emotional

39:02

response out of you, a positive emotional

39:05

response. And it might have nothing

39:07

to do with with what they're

39:09

trying to sell, but you're you're now

39:11

associating pleasurable, warm

39:13

feeling with you know, Mr

39:16

Sparkle dishwashing

39:19

detergent, you know when

39:21

really it's just a a

39:23

joint venture of Matsumura Fish Works

39:25

and Tomorrow Heavy

39:28

Manufacturing concern. Um.

39:31

Like when they've done um, they've done studies and like

39:33

anti smoking campaigns for teenagers,

39:36

and they respond more to cartoon characters

39:38

that are cute, which sounds a lot like Joe

39:40

Campbell. If you ask me, it's like the opposite.

39:42

That's true. Um, but it does make sense

39:45

like a teens might respond to a list

39:47

here is like a penguin and a jacket or

39:50

a polar bear. Then you know some

39:52

adult human like pointing their finger at

39:54

you like John, can

39:57

you imagine to the teens

40:00

don't smoke? Right? So?

40:03

Um? Yeah, it also makes you think,

40:05

like you know, since so many like cute

40:08

toys, or so many toys are cute.

40:10

Um, when you're buying like a plush animal

40:14

has, are you responding

40:16

almost in like an insane

40:19

way to your cute

40:22

caregiving response? Just being manipulated

40:24

and like you're going to take that stuff to animal home

40:26

and and and give it care because

40:29

it's just been activated in you? Is

40:31

that really? Is that? That seems to be what's going

40:33

on when you when you're when

40:35

you buy like a toy like that.

40:38

That's interesting because then if you know, if

40:41

you see people walking around like that, you're like, oh, well

40:43

you've you've just been manipulated. Congratulations

40:46

kind of thing. But also you

40:48

can make the case to um. And I

40:50

read a guy uh something by

40:53

a guy named Gary Jenosco

40:55

who is the Canada Research

40:57

Chair and Techno Culture at

40:59

lake Head University in thunder Bay, Ontario,

41:03

and he argues that UM that same

41:05

thing that the commodification of cute,

41:08

uh say, like by Disney. He also argues

41:11

that National Geographic Magazine was big

41:13

into getting people in involved

41:15

in caring about animals and nature. They

41:18

really use cuteness, especially

41:20

in like the fifties and sixties. I guess um

41:23

that it forms

41:26

our understanding of things in

41:28

a very specific way,

41:30

which is this thing is cute. It's like a

41:32

toy to me. I want to pick it up and carry it around and

41:34

love it and hug on it. But in doing

41:36

that you really miss out

41:39

on a lot of the um

41:41

the individual um

41:44

personality of whatever that animal

41:47

is. Like you like you trade respect

41:50

for infantalism, right

41:54

and like that. That that really stood out to

41:56

me because I have to remind myself that Momo is

41:58

like this sncient individual

42:01

entity who deserves respect

42:04

and to be treated with respect. I just picked up

42:06

any time she you know, she looks

42:08

at me a certain way and it sets off my cuteness

42:10

response. Like I've really had to grapple

42:12

with that. And luckily, you mean's like really aware of that

42:15

because she hasn't She's always been a very

42:17

small person and she us got get picked

42:19

up all the time, so she's like identifies with

42:21

Mama on that level. Um,

42:23

And it's been like really an exercise

42:26

and restraint. Sometimes it's just be like, no, I've

42:28

just got to treat Mama like she doesn't want

42:30

to be picked up right now kind of thing. You know. But

42:33

I thought Canascar Jenascar really made a

42:35

good point that we we miss

42:37

a lot of like what makes an

42:39

animal and animal in in favor of just

42:41

seeing it as something cute and a kind

42:44

of a plaything in a way. Yeah,

42:46

and if like there's no clear

42:49

reminder that, um,

42:51

you know, I've always had dogs and multiple

42:53

dogs and love dogs, but when you see a dog

42:55

like you know, go after

42:58

a squirrel and catch it and eat it or

43:00

something, that these are the reminders like these

43:02

are these are animals, you

43:05

know, like the same cute dog will also

43:07

you know, eat poop out of it's a but if it could

43:10

right or eat your face if you died on the couch

43:12

and it was locked in the house with in a second. Sure,

43:16

Um, so we probably shouldn't finish

43:19

until we talk about kauaie culture. Yeah,

43:21

this is the Japanese culture that is

43:24

um well, this says it best.

43:26

Maybe the greatest pop culture expression of cute.

43:29

You think Pikachu think

43:31

um like pop singers dressed

43:33

as a little sort of pigtailed schoolgirls.

43:37

Uh. It's it's a very very big

43:39

trend in Japan. It's huge,

43:42

Like everybody has a

43:44

cute mascot, Hello kiddies

43:46

everywhere. It's just enormous. And apparently

43:49

it kind of like grew and evolved

43:51

and morphed over time, starting with

43:53

this um student protest movement in

43:55

the sixties, where like the Japanese

43:57

kids like um just to sided,

44:00

they didn't want to go to class anymore. They sat around and

44:02

read manga comic books

44:04

instead and kind of regress to back

44:06

to childhood. And then that kind of

44:08

developed in the seventies into a trend

44:10

for cute see bubbly handwriting

44:14

that led to Hello Kitty,

44:16

and then weirdly, it also made an appearance

44:19

um as Uh

44:21

what is it Burrico women, which

44:23

is very childlike. Um

44:26

women who adopted

44:28

this this kind of demeanor UM

44:31

two number one, uh

44:34

cut off any sense of threat

44:36

that they presented when they entered the workforce,

44:38

but also to kind of keep um

44:40

unwanted advances from

44:42

their male colleagues. At Bay two, they

44:45

entered the workforce as if they were young kids,

44:48

little girls, giggly and all

44:50

that kind of stuff. And this is like a persona that they

44:52

adopted that eventually became

44:55

this trend, this cuteness trend that's

44:57

like everywhere in Japan. I never thought

44:59

about the bubble letters. That's so interesting because

45:02

I've always sort of wondered,

45:04

like why elementary school

45:06

girls. It seems like I would

45:09

write in those big, juicy

45:11

round letters. Yeah,

45:13

it makes sense, it does. But

45:16

that was apparently where Hawaii culture

45:18

came from originally as a handwriting thing. Interesting.

45:21

Yeah, I was curious here at the

45:24

end, I was like, has science

45:26

proven what the cutest animals are? And

45:29

I did find something from list Verse

45:32

and Jonathan Cantor the top ten cutest animals

45:34

in the world, according to science. But

45:36

I see nothing in the article about how science

45:38

proved this, literally

45:41

nothing, but I figured i'd read it

45:43

just for frenzies. Number ten

45:45

is most baby mammals, okay.

45:48

Number nine is the slow Loris. You

45:50

ever see those things? You should look

45:52

at some of these. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and text you number

45:54

one right now because

45:58

and I guess i'll just send it to you and are since

46:00

she's on our most recent thread, she'll

46:02

be like, what the heck is this all

46:05

right? Coming your way? So? Number eight

46:08

is the mere cat, which I think

46:10

mere cancelok a little sinister personally. Yeah,

46:13

I can see that because of the like there they got

46:15

the bandit masks on. Yeah. Uh.

46:17

Number seven is the koala. Yeah,

46:20

did you just Lauras looks like, no,

46:23

that's not a Lauras that I sent you. Are you looking at Laris?

46:25

Well? What is this what I sent you?

46:27

We'll just put a pen in. It's number one, okay,

46:30

Yeah, I can see that. Number six is the

46:32

Flapjack and Dumbo octopode.

46:35

Okay, um, piglets.

46:38

Number five match

46:41

the fennic fox. Number four, that's the fox

46:43

with those huge ears and make

46:45

those great sounds. The red

46:47

pandas number three, the panda bear, the white

46:49

panda, black and white pant is nowhere on this list. Weird,

46:52

this guy's way off. This must have been a list

46:55

from Jimmy Science, his roommate. According

46:58

to Jimmy Science, I

47:01

think you mean James B. Science, number

47:04

two with sea otters and then number one. I don't know how I've

47:06

lived my whole life without knowing that this thing existed.

47:09

But the quoca q u o k k A

47:13

from Australia. It's a small marsupial

47:16

uh same family as a kangaroo, apparently

47:19

in southwestern Australia. And that

47:21

picture I sent you, my friend, just

47:24

google smiling

47:27

quoca and you'll see

47:29

this one picture of this quoca

47:31

literally jumping hands out,

47:34

smiling at the camera lens

47:36

like give me a hug, Like, give me a hug. This

47:39

is and I think, I mean, n you know, they said

47:41

it's because they look like they're smiling. Obviously

47:43

is one of the big reasons. But almost every picture you

47:45

look at a quoca, it's

47:48

got this little smile. It's

47:50

unbelievable. Hey, I

47:52

have to say, based on the screenshot you you need to

47:54

charge your phone soon. Uh

47:57

yeah, and that was even earlier, So I

48:00

get that same stress because I'm I'm generally

48:02

at least guy. Yeah,

48:04

and so when I see people do screenshots and as

48:07

that read, yeah, boy, I

48:11

can't even take it so um

48:13

to finish up, chuck that the converse

48:15

of what you're talking about the cutest animals,

48:18

um, the fact that they exist also

48:21

kind of implies that there are non cute

48:23

animals that exist and that they're less

48:25

likely to get our attention. Um.

48:27

And as a result, there is a kind of tongue

48:30

in cheek. But I also get the impression kind of serious

48:32

group called the Ugly Animal Preservation

48:34

Society whose mascot

48:37

is the blob Fish, which makes

48:39

a lot of sense, and their slogan is we

48:41

can't all be pandas I love

48:43

that. Yeah, So they're looking

48:46

out for the ugly animals

48:48

that we're going to wipe out because they're not cute.

48:50

Well, I know that is a big deal when it comes to conservation,

48:54

is that that people can

48:56

conservations have a much harder time getting

48:59

money and stuff. And we talked about it in our Zoos

49:02

episode. Yeah, like that's why

49:04

they lead with giraffes and elephants

49:06

and stuff like that. Was that the episode?

49:08

I know we talked about it before and they were like, look,

49:10

man, just leave us alone. This is the important

49:13

stuff because it saves the other stuff.

49:15

Yeah, exactly. That blobfish

49:17

that looks like man,

49:20

yeah, ugly cute maybe yeah,

49:24

chemo kawaii. If

49:26

kawaii sounds familiar, that's probably

49:28

because you heard it at the very beginning of the

49:30

Quin Stefani song Haull of back Girl,

49:33

where she sees a bunch of hard juku girls

49:35

in Japan and goes, kawai nice.

49:38

That blobfish look like look like it's constantly

49:41

saying okay,

49:44

I know they shouldn't call it that or fish.

49:46

The blobfish definitely works sooner man

49:49

um, Well, since we have wrapped

49:51

it up with the old blobfish, if you

49:54

want to know more about the science

49:56

of cute, just start looking at cute

49:58

pictures of the coo ooka. Sure,

50:02

that's a great place to start. And since Chuck

50:04

said sure, that means it's time for a listener

50:06

mail. I'm

50:11

gonna call this. I'm

50:13

getting called out here and it's something I haven't thought about.

50:15

I got called out by a couple of people for different

50:17

reasons for saying, uh, this

50:19

phrase you know unless you live under a

50:21

rock that you know blank. One

50:24

person said, Hey, that just makes me feel

50:26

dumb because I didn't know about one of these things.

50:29

Sure, I think that's the point, right, that's your intent.

50:31

No, I don't want to make anyone to feel bad, but

50:34

this is a different kind of response, and uh,

50:36

well worth reading. Hey, guys, making my way

50:38

through a backlog log of episodes,

50:41

and I noticed the thing that seems to pop up from time to time

50:43

and your descriptions of popular culture

50:45

and products like hang gliding at a

50:47

sketch and Rubik's Cube. You make comments

50:49

like and if you don't know what one of

50:52

these is or looks like, get out from

50:54

under your rock and go look up a

50:56

picture. Uh, someone who has been blind

50:59

since birth? Though, my problem isn't that

51:01

I've been living under a rock, but rather

51:03

the pictures to me are worth zero words.

51:06

Yeah, I really got

51:08

me good. I grew up in the eighties,

51:10

so everyone had a Rubik's Cube, and I played with my fair

51:12

share of them, even though I couldn't solve them

51:14

for many things in life. Though, if I haven't physically

51:17

touched it or had it described

51:19

to me. I only have the faintest idea

51:21

of what it looks like. In fact, I was a music

51:24

music education major in college, and

51:26

it wasn't until my sophomore year in age nineteen

51:28

that I touched a brass instrument

51:30

for the very first time. Uh, the French

51:32

horn still fascinates me. I've enjoyed

51:35

listening to your show for years, and I've

51:37

learned lots of visual information from you, from

51:39

what jiraffes looked like to fashion

51:41

choices of punk rockers. I wanted to make you

51:43

aware of this though. You can help people who can't

51:45

look at pictures, whether uh, we're

51:48

blind or whether we're on the road driving

51:50

in a truck and we don't want to pull out our

51:52

phones to look at pictures. Thanks for years

51:54

of learning and laughter. Appreciate the work warmly,

51:57

Ryan for Minneapolis and

51:59

Ryan in I have nothing to

52:01

say but great point, and I'll do better.

52:04

Very nice, Chuck. I don't think there's anything else you could

52:07

say. You know why, because you're a good

52:09

person and jerk. That's right. And now

52:11

I will try and describe things to the best of my ability,

52:13

which might not be great but I think you did

52:15

a good job with the kawaka description.

52:19

Smiling wrote it. Yeah,

52:22

it looks like it's smiling. That's all you need to know that.

52:25

Um, well, if you want to take

52:27

a chuck or meat a task, that's There's

52:30

not a lot of sport in that. But if you want to do it

52:32

anyway, that's fine. You can send

52:34

it to his via email, wrap it up

52:36

and send it off to stuff podcast

52:38

at iHeart radio dot com.

52:44

Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio

52:47

for more podcasts for my heart Radio because it the iHeart

52:49

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

52:51

listen to your favorite shows.