0:09

Kevin: Hello, and welcome back to Subspace Radio.

0:11

It's me, Kevin. Rob: And me, Rob!

0:14

Kevin: And we are here to talk about Lower Decks, Season 4, Episode

0:17

6, Parth's Ferengi Heart Place.

0:21

Rob: Sure, why not? We've been given so many beautiful things this season with Lower Decks.

0:25

Let's go back to Ferenganar and see it in more than just like a, a rainy,

0:31

uh, uh, matte painting or something like that from, uh, Deep Space Nine.

0:35

Let's, let's get the full idea, as Mariner says, this would

0:39

be heaven if God was stupid. Kevin: I forgot that line, that is good.

0:45

Um, I too noticed the distinct lack of rain on Ferenginar this episode, uh,

0:51

Rob: There was some rain. I believe I did see some rain.

0:54

There was some, uh, ponchos that our intrepid crew members were wearing

0:57

to stave off the, uh, the non stop monsoon and rain of, uh, Ferenganar.

1:02

Kevin: Ah, my eyes were dazzled by the Uncle Quark's Youth Casino sign.

1:09

Rob: And what was it? The, the, uh, Haggle at the Museum of Gambling and Gamble at Museum of Hag...

1:16

Kevin: haggling... Oh, so much joy and delight at Ferenginar, a homeworld that we have only seen kind

1:26

of a couple of interior sets of before, and one matte painting with a lot of rain.

1:33

Rob: Yes, lot of interiors with very low circular, uh, doorways.

1:39

But we see a full expansion of, uh, the Ferengi culture.

1:43

And of course they embrace commercials and TVs focused on, uh, rent cops.

1:49

Kevin: Just like Orion earlier this season, I now realize that this had to

1:54

wait for Lower Decks, because it is a comedy society, in some respects, and so,

1:59

uh, choosing to show it to us as a cartoon for the first time, or in animated form

2:03

for the first time, allows them to go there and go deep with all the delightful

2:09

details that, probably would not work quite as well in a live action series.

2:16

Rob: Well yes, the groundwork for the Ferengi culture was really built

2:19

up in, uh, Deep Space Nine so much so, fans would always go Oh, it's a

2:23

Ferengi episode, you can skip that. But no, there are some good Ferengi episodes out there, but

2:29

Kevin: Oh, just you wait. I, I may surprise you with the episode of, uh, Ferengi culture that

2:35

I have brought to discuss today, Rob.

2:37

Rob: I'm very interested to see which one you have.

2:40

Kevin: Not as skippable as we might think, some of those early ones, I think.

2:44

Rob: Excellent. How did you find, uh, this, this trip onto the Ferengi homeworld?

2:49

Kevin: Well, um, yeah, delightful from beginning to end.

2:53

I do have to say, I was hoping that you would recognize the title

2:58

because I have learned by reading the reference that is in the title and I

3:02

thought, that sounds like something that Rob might know something about.

3:05

Apparently, Parth Ferengi's Heart Place is a reference to Garth Meringue's Darkplace,

3:12

which is a 2004 British horror parody television series created by Richard

3:18

Ayoade and Matthew Holness for Channel 4.

3:22

Rob: Yeah, Richard Ayoade is of course famous for The IT Crowd.

3:26

I sadly do not know how deep cut this reference is, so I'm hearing

3:30

it for the first time from you. Kevin: Yeah, I, I think I need to go and watch this thing, but it, it is bizarre.

3:37

It sounds like kind of a parody of the Twilight Zone or something.

3:41

It is. It is a short series that is presented as if it was a, uh, set of lost episodes from

3:51

a previously cancelled horror anthology,

3:54

Rob: Right. Kevin: understanding from reading the Wikipedia page.

3:57

But boy, reaching into your deep bucket of things you're a fan of and

4:03

pulling that out to reference in a Star Trek title, I'm kind of like, okay.

4:09

I would say 99.999 percent of people who see this Star Trek

4:13

title would go, Hmm, that's weird.

4:16

What's going on there? Rob: Sadly, I am one of those people.

4:20

I will need do deep dive like you have done.

4:22

So, I, feel ashamed. Kevin: Yeah.

4:25

Bizarre one. Rob: This episode did of course have the return of Rom and Leeta.

4:29

Kevin: Yes, great to have them back, the original actors.

4:32

It was one of those sets of characters that I think I didn't realize I was

4:37

wanting to see what happened next to them or where they were post-DS9.

4:43

That was such a delight, our visit to DS9 last season, of like getting to see these

4:48

characters in the aftertimes, uh, in the happily ever after period of their lives,

4:55

Rob: Especially with Deep Space Nine, because it doesn't

4:57

end that happily at all. Kevin: No!

5:00

And getting to see Rom and Leeta leading Ferengi culture into a bright

5:05

new future was, uh, great to see. And yet, you know, they aren't that changed.

5:10

They are clever, deceptive negotiators for a good deal, just

5:16

like any good Ferengi should be. Rob: Rom is, uh, the Grand Nagus, but he's also a union man.

5:21

Let's not forget that. We had quite a few stories this time.

5:25

We had the, uh, I'm not sure even which the A plot is, but

5:28

we had the negotiation plot. We had, um, we had Tendi and Rutherford having to pretend to be a couple.

5:36

Kevin: Oh, that gave me life. That was so good.

5:40

Rob: We had Mariner catching up with an old Ferengi friend who

5:43

first appeared in season one, Kevin: Yes, continuing to grapple with her demons.

5:48

Rob: Yes, um, she is repeating the same story again, but doing it in a, a bar

5:53

fight, which, uh, was kind of frustrating.

5:55

And, uh, Boimler being suckered in by, um, commercial television.

6:00

Kevin: Will they or won't they? Rob: This moment where he goes, they just lied in a commercial.

6:04

Ha! That's hilarious. Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

6:10

The negotiation plot, I don't know if this is what's needed, but it is

6:14

kind of bothering me this week that we can't seem to decide whether Captain

6:20

Freeman is good at her job or not.

6:22

In one episode, she's screwing up a, thousands year old computer by

6:28

not taking advice from her own crew.

6:31

And in the very next, she's the only one who sees what the Ferengi

6:34

are doing at the negotiation table.

6:36

So I think we are being asked to accept that she is not a great captain in

6:43

terms of, uh, skill and experience, but she's better than most admirals is

6:50

also what we're being asked to accept.

6:52

Rob: Yeah, there's a reason why she's staying at California class.

6:55

But yeah, there was very much a case of this, there was a lot of...

6:59

familiar tropes. So that, for me, was a very classic sitcomy type setup, where you have

7:04

to achieve something, the person in charge is actually not as smart as

7:07

the person who could be doing it, and then right at the end it flips around.

7:11

That was classic sitcomy structure.

7:13

The same thing with Tendi and, uh, Rutherford.

7:17

They were sort of like, um, the friends having to pretend to be a couple,

7:20

and then that gets a bit too awkward for them, and what does that mean?

7:23

That was very... classic sitcomy type stuff as well.

7:28

And then we were treading the same ground with Mariner, and Boimler with, that was

7:32

a bit of a classic cliche as well again, he wants to do all this other stuff,

7:35

but he's drawn into a lot of stuff. So for me it was very much filled with nothing but, in many

7:40

ways, cliche sitcom type stuff.

7:43

Kevin: Yeah, and all of them reset at the end of the episode as well, which,

7:47

for me, that is the only thing that I wanted more from the Rutherford/Tendi,

7:53

story, is seeing them, like, cross that line and then blush at the

8:00

feelings they had for each other, uh, I was like, oh, this is so delicious.

8:05

This is what I have wanted to see from these two, but then by

8:09

the end of the episode, they're like, well, okay, we fixed that.

8:12

Let's crawl into the Jeffries tube together. Ah, this feels right.

8:15

And it's a good comedy beat, but to me, it undermines character

8:20

development that I am craving. Rob: Yeah, and there was a sense of, they, they didn't go in many

8:25

ways far enough of specificities.

8:28

It was just generic stuff about I like your eyes or all this type of stuff.

8:31

They didn't go into that Kevin: they didn't get real with

8:34

Rob: Yeah, where that connection with the two of them go, is so strong.

8:38

And so why they are feeling so awkward.

8:41

They're getting so awkward about talking about nudity or they're

8:44

getting talking about you know, they're pretending in this particular way.

8:47

I'm going I want to go further about why they feel so awkward

8:51

because how the two of them are so connected to each other individually.

8:57

Kevin: Yeah. And I can't tell if I want that and they're not giving it to us

9:03

yet because they want to tell that story later and they're giving it

9:07

a, they're giving us little, little crumbs and eventually we'll get there

9:12

over, over many episodes and seasons. Or if I am wanting something that this show just is not that show,

9:18

like maybe this show is like, we are not the big character arcs

9:24

or relationship stories show.

9:27

We are a comedy show. Uh, and so we're not going to go there.

9:31

I'm reminded of the sitcom Friends.

9:33

When got real good is when these characters started having

9:38

multi episode arcs in their relationships with each other.

9:42

Ross and Rachel go through their will they won't they period, and then they

9:46

get together for a whole season, and then they break up, and then they

9:49

get back together, and then they get married, and then they have a baby.

9:52

Like, that sort stuff is what brought people back week after week to Friends,

9:58

is like, yes, every episode was a self contained story and, and comedy episode,

10:06

but the character relationships, the friendships grew and evolved and were

10:14

affected by each individual story.

10:17

And we have a bit of that here in Lower Decks, but I can't tell if

10:21

they are going to go all the way with something like a Rutherford/Tendi,

10:25

will they, won't they story. They're definitely hanging a lantern on it by having Boimler watch a

10:31

show literally entitled Will They, Won't They who have unacknowledged

10:35

feelings for each other in workplace. Like, they know what they're doing there.

10:40

They're telling us, we know, what you want and we are going to put

10:44

it on a Ferengi soap opera you that we know what you want and then

10:48

we're not going to give it to you. So I kind of want to give them credit and say it's obviously deliberate, I hope

10:55

they're going to get there eventually. But I don't know.

10:57

I don't know if that would break Lower Decks to to go the full Friends route.

11:03

Rob: Yeah, I mean to reference Friends again, I mean one of the key plots

11:06

as well in the final season was where it felt a little bit like jumping the

11:10

shark with Joey developing feelings for Rachel and Rachel kind of, and then they

11:14

kind of realize, no, this doesn't work.

11:17

We are just friends. And I find that there's something quite powerful in the structure of

11:22

Lower Decks about, you know, a guy and a girl can just be friends and it

11:25

Kevin: It is, it is refreshing and interesting for its own sake, but I think,

11:31

nevertheless, this episode gave us a fresh taste of what's on the other side

11:35

of that line they are refusing to cross.

11:38

Rob: Yeah, exactly, and there's always, in long serving shows, those

11:42

relationships that come and go and last and endure, but also those

11:45

relationships that try to start, don't kind of work, why don't they work, and

11:48

how do they, you know, stop, start, and kind of stay, uh, in that friend zone.

11:54

It was very much a case of they were manipulating the audience who have been

11:58

watching it going we've been seeing what you're doing and that's the writers going

12:03

well we know you see what we're doing and we're going to do this because we know

12:06

that you know that we know that you know. Kevin: Speaking of Friends.

12:13

So we, uh, we journeyed to Ferenginar, in this episode and,

12:18

it, uh, prompted us to think what other, like, really great Ferengi

12:22

episodes have there been in the past? We've, we've certainly delved into some of them before in our explorations

12:27

of Deep Space Nine, but let's go looking for, for us, our favorite

12:33

Ferengi episodes of whatever series.

12:36

And, uh, yeah, Rob, I might surprise you this week.

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Rob: I'm very interested to see where will you be coming from?

12:43

Where will you be going? Will you be going with the first episode of Star Trek Next Generation

12:49

with the appearance of the Ferengi? Kevin: Uh, no, I will not be going for The Last Outpost, which is a very early

12:56

TNG episode where we, where Ferengi are introduced, but they are, they are little

13:00

more than hissing, energy whip wielding, two dimensional villains in that episode.

13:07

Although there is, there's a taste of like, they are established as

13:10

like a mercantile race and there is a, there is a certain kind of

13:16

logical thinking that they are not capable of because in their nature.

13:20

There, there are those seeds planted there, but I would say that the Ferengi

13:25

did not capture my interest then.

13:27

But I did pick, I went back to find like, when was the first time that I felt

13:33

like I wanted to lean in on the Ferengi?

13:36

And this is Season 3, Episode 24 of The Next Generation.

13:41

Ménage à Troi. Rob: Ménage à Troi, alright, ok, take

13:47

Kevin: Do you remember this one, Rob? Rob: I do not, but I was hoping that you would, uh, slip into my pool for a little

13:53

bit, but I am more than happy to come and,

13:55

Kevin: I trust you to tell us where the gold is for Ferengi in

14:00

Rob: The gold pressed latinum, thank you very much.

14:04

Kevin: Uh, so in Ménage à Troi, Riker, Deanna Troi, and Lwaxana Troi

14:10

are kidnapped by a Ferengi ship that wants to use the telepathic powers

14:18

of Lwaxana Troi in order to have an advantage in business negotiations.

14:25

And at the same time, the captain who has his eyes on Lwaxana Troi as a

14:30

prize in his business, also has fallen head over heels in love with her.

14:34

So he is both throwing himself emotionally and in business terms

14:40

at the poor ambassador Lwaxana.

14:43

Rob: It's Majel Barrett. I mean, who wouldn't be?

14:45

Come on. Kevin: Yes, this is, if you enjoy Majel Barrett's turn in Deep Space

14:50

Nine, and you've referenced it several times, Rob, I you are a fan, this is

14:55

that in The Next Generation for me.

14:59

We often think of the times where she came on board the Enterprise looking

15:02

for a husband and, uh, and, know, creeped on each and every man in the

15:07

corridor, but this is a different color for Majel Barrett and to me,

15:11

she is playing much stronger here. She is able to seriously, as a serious diplomat, rebuff the advances of

15:20

this creepy little Ferengi Damon who, who then kidnaps her from

15:26

a garden on Betazed, along with her daughter and Commander Riker.

15:32

And then she, along with Riker and Troi, they have one of those great escape

15:38

capers where they play the aliens against each other or play their weaknesses.

15:44

There's a great scene where Riker is playing chess with

15:47

their captor, the Ferengi guard.

15:50

And he's like, Oh, if only I could get out there, I would be able

15:53

to see the board better and, and give you a better lesson in chess.

15:57

Rob: Ha Kevin: And the Ferengi is like, all right, but don't try anything, human.

16:00

And he lets him out of the, uh, out of the cell.

16:03

And of course, Riker takes him down. But, um, lots of good telepathy between Troi and her mother Lwaxana.

16:11

And the telepathy is not just used as a gimmick to like, comment

16:16

on the situation or the people.

16:18

They're actually using the telepathy in order to get one over on the Ferengi.

16:23

And so it is in some ways a really interesting Betazoid story as well,

16:29

speaking of Betazoids not being very well explored, as we were

16:33

talking about last week, with the three Betazoids on the Cerritos.

16:37

This is another kind of, we actually visit Betazed.

16:40

We actually spend some time in a park there, and for the Troi and Riker

16:45

shippers, they, taking a stroll in that park, remember the good times they

16:50

had together when they were dating. And there is a very, very sexy kiss.

16:55

Before they get kidnapped, Riker and Troi are well on track to getting

16:59

back together in this episode. for those nasty Ferengi to sidetrack them, I think, I think they would have gotten

17:06

back together here in, on this picnic. Rob: Ferengiiiii…!

17:09

Kevin: But yet, um, one of the Ferengi officers is played by Ethan Phillips,

17:14

who's, uh, who, you know, as, our great chef Neelix on the Voyager.

17:19

Rob: Well, we say chef in inverted commas.

17:22

Ha Kevin: You know, technically, technically.

17:25

Rob: Ha Kevin: There is, uh, the introduction of Oo-mox, the, uh, the, erotic massage

17:30

of the Ferengi ears in this episode.

17:34

Rob: Excellent… Kevin: Yeah, Lwaxana just absently, as she's trying to sweet talk the Ferengi

17:40

captain into giving up his command codes, she just starts absently, uh, fingering

17:45

his earlobes, and he goes, Oh, no one has given me Oo-mox like this before.

17:51

uh, there you Rob: ha, Kevin: That, that moment there was like, okay, the Ferengi are

17:56

now fully formed as as a culture.

17:59

They are about love and business being intermingled and, uh,

18:04

getting Oo-mox wherever you can. Rob: Oh look, it's a good culture if you can get it.

18:09

Kevin: I feel for me that this episode is like the exact halfway point between where

18:14

the Ferengi started, which was an attempt to create the recurring villains for The

18:19

Next Generation, way back in The Last Outpost, and it didn't quite work out.

18:24

It didn't quite work, but that was the intent, is like,

18:27

these will be our Klingons. And it's halfway between that and where the Ferengi ended up in Deep Space

18:33

Nine is almost like the clown or the comic relief, of that very dark story.

18:40

Uh, and here you can see everything that they would become in Deep Space

18:44

Nine but it is also still connected to the, the creepy, you know, finger

18:50

waggling parody of a stereotype that, uh, that the Ferengi started as.

18:56

And so, it's a great one to revisit, I think.

19:00

Rob: Excellent. I have to definitely give that a, uh, watch because yeah, mine,

19:04

uh, my experience is definitely Deep Space Nine and beyond.

19:06

Kevin: What have you got Rob? Rob: Well, I've got in many ways, the most Ferengi of Ferengi episodes.

19:13

Uh, Deep Space Nine, of course, Season 6, Episode 10, we

19:18

don't just have one Ferengi. We have a magnificent six Ferengi.

19:24

What an episode. The Magnificent Ferengi is the most Ferengi of episodes

19:29

that you could possibly Kevin: right there in the title.

19:31

Rob: Yep, we have, uh, Moogie has been captured by the Dominion.

19:35

We are in the heart of the Dominion War and, uh, Quark has been given

19:39

orders by the Grand Nagus to go and form a negotiation to get her back.

19:45

And so he calls upon, uh, other Ferengis to join him to, uh, bring back his mother.

19:51

Who, of course, as we all know, is, um, quite of a trailblazer

19:55

within the Ferengi community. She does not, uh, walk around naked.

19:59

She does wear clothes. Uh, she, gets herself involved in all sorts of commerce.

20:04

And so much so, she is advising the Grand Nagus on all the financial

20:08

situations of, the Ferengi culture, so much so that she's pretty much

20:12

ruling the Empire, uh, unofficially.

20:15

But she needs to be rescued because she's been captured by the Dominion.

20:17

So Quark gets, uh, Rom, Nog, uh, Brunt, we have Brunt back,

20:22

the wonderful Jeffrey Combs. Is not an incredible episode of Deep Space Nine or Star Trek unless

20:26

you have Jeffrey Combs there. Plus, a couple of other Ferengis, like a cousin of Quark's is

20:31

there and a Ferengi assassin.

20:34

So, having a little bit of a touch from the Next Gen era we do see a violent

20:39

side and a quite threatening side of Ferengis as well as their love of latinum.

20:44

This is just pure like I've talked about, uh, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang,

20:48

which is a homage to the heist movies

20:53

Kevin: I was gonna this has the feel of a Ferengi heist movie.

20:57

Rob: It is very heisty and also of course the Magnificent Seven, uh, which it

21:01

takes its name from, based of course on Seven Samurai, Kurosawa's great film.

21:05

It's about getting a crew, group together to go off on

21:08

Kevin: There is a plan, everyone plays their part, and then the

21:12

joy is watching the plan go wrong, and how they the punches.

21:17

Rob: Look, and it wouldn't be a Star Trek episode from the 90s for, or

21:21

the noughties for me to talk about if it didn't have a awesome rock star.

21:25

So I've talked about, uh, Voyager, where Tom Morello, the guitar

21:30

player from Audioslave and of course Rage Against the Machine appeared.

21:35

Um, and in this episode we have Iggy Pop.

21:39

I kid you not, Iggy Pop is, uh, here playing a Vorta,

21:44

Kevin: Yeah, great Vorta. I mean, they couldn't have, they couldn't have Weyoun because, uh,

21:48

Jeffrey Combs was otherwise occupied. Though, I would back Jeffrey Combs to play in a split screen scene with

21:54

himself, two different characters, and have plenty of audience members

21:58

not realize it's same actor. Rob: Look, it's a crime that hasn't been done, that they just haven't created

22:03

an entire Star Trek spin off show with Jeffrey Combs in every single role.

22:07

Look, they do it in animated Star Wars, uh, with Bradley D.

22:11

Baker. He's the voice of every single clone in The Bad Batch series.

22:15

They could do that with Star Trek with, um, Jeffrey Combs.

22:18

I kid you not. Kevin: Iggy Pop plays a great Vorta, though.

22:21

I love the kind of arch, uh, version of the Vorta that he plays here.

22:26

Rob: Both, both actors playing Vorta in this are great.

22:28

Of course we have Keevan, who's been kidnapped, is, uh, taken on

22:32

board, and his disdain for, uh, Ferengis is, uh, made very clear.

22:37

And if this was done in modern times... I know what his final lines would have been.

22:42

In the 1990s, as he is shot and he looks at the hole in his stomach, he just

22:47

says before he dies, I hate Ferengi.

22:49

And I have no doubt that he would have dropped the F bomb, if it done nowadays.

22:55

If it was good enough for Amanda Plummer in Season 3 of Picard, it would be good

23:00

for Keevan in, um, Magnificent Ferengi.

23:03

So yeah, this is just amazing. All the Ferengi characters are firing on all cylinders.

23:06

You see all the different level of, Ferengi culture there.

23:09

And different types of characters. Even, in many ways, more so than how Klingons are represented, there's sort

23:17

of like very much a uniformity with Klingons, a little bit of variety is

23:21

obviously with Worf and stuff like that. But here, like, Nog is completely different to Quark.

23:29

Quark is completely different to Brunt. Uh, Moogie is completely different to Quark.

23:34

This, Kevin: I love that stuff. I've talked many times about how entire cultures or species or worlds

23:42

are often in Star Trek shrunk to a single city block, and that we

23:47

are told represents a homogenous culture that, occurs off screen.

23:53

Here we get six Ferengi together and each one represents a completely

23:58

different color of the rainbow from that.

24:00

amazing culture. I love that that makes Ferenganar feel bigger.

24:04

Rob: Yeah, just incredible and there's a, there's dark humor in there as well

24:08

with the, with the death of Keevan and Nog realizing they can reanimate his

24:13

body to still do the, the exchange.

24:17

Kevin: Oh, I forgot about that. Ah, that this is among everything else, this is a Weekend at Bernie's.

24:22

Rob: Yes, there's tribute to Weekend at Bernie's.

24:25

It just shows the cunning and intelligence of Quark.

24:29

Uh, of course, uh, Moogie is kidnapped by the Dominion because

24:33

she was going to an exotic location to have her earlobes lifted.

24:38

Kevin: Uh huh. Rob: Yeah, so they are firmer and more, more supple than they have

24:42

ever been in over a hundred years, I believe she says, is one of her lines.

24:46

She's starting to negotiate with, um, the Dominion, with, with the Vorta,

24:50

played by Iggy Pop, about you should be doing this and doing that, and you

24:54

should have skin care as well, and he says the famous line, It would be great

24:58

to negotiate this with you a bit further but we're going to have to kill you.

25:04

Kevin: Having revisited this episode, I have a question for you, Rob, which

25:07

is, you feel like there is the potential for the Ferengi to carry… I'm not saying

25:16

is going happen tomorrow or even ever, but would it be possible to create

25:21

a fully formed Star Trek series with Ferengi characters at the center of it?

25:27

Like, are they robust enough to carry a series, or are they one of those

25:35

ingredients that are good in small doses?

25:39

Rob: Um, well I think Aaron Eisenberg proved it because he was such an

25:43

incredible actor and an amazing performer and what he did with Nog over seven

25:47

seasons to get him to the point where he was, you know, he wasn't a regular.

25:53

He was only there every, you know, like a supporting character would come in and

25:57

out for a couple of episodes every season, but he felt like he was always there, and

26:02

his, his place as a Ferengi in Starfleet, um, really showed that he could keep

26:07

his belief and heritage and who he is as a Ferengi, but strive for more ideals.

26:14

And how that affected, you know, Rom as well.

26:17

Um, so I definitely would, I don't know if you could do like a

26:20

Ferengi-centric um, but you could, I'm always quite disappointed that

26:26

they haven't put another Ferengi as a, as a Starfleet member on, on a ship.

26:31

I think that would be a fantastic choice and I mean it, you know, no

26:35

one did it better than, than Aaron.

26:38

But there's definitely, uh, room for a, not a character similar to Nog,

26:42

but with that type of a Ferengi who's moved on from the capitalistic ideals

26:47

and really embraced the Federation. But using that cunning and intelligence and all that stuff that is lauded in

26:55

Ferengi culture, using that to be a cunning member of a Federation crew.

27:00

Kevin: You mentioned Richard Ayoade's, uh, IT crowd earlier in the episode.

27:05

And that got me thinking of like, how many comedies are about strange

27:10

characters in ordinary situations?

27:14

Rob: Yeah. Kevin: there's no stranger characters than Ferengis.

27:17

And I kind of like the Star Trek comedy that was driven by...

27:25

a group of Ferengi each week placed in what would otherwise be an

27:30

ordinary situation in the Star Trek universe and seeing them react to

27:34

that and interact with that situation.

27:37

I feel there is potential there. Rob: Well, yeah, and I mean, especially that's been the ongoing debate about,

27:43

you know, Roddenberry saying there's no religion in his future, or no money

27:47

and stuff like that, but that may be a case of the Federation future.

27:51

But it's, as we've talked about before, how those ideals are far more

27:56

interesting if they're not in a vacuum, and so to have this, uh, culture that

28:00

is everything in many ways against the Federation belief that is driven by

28:04

capitalism and is driven by oppression of the female of the species, um, shows

28:10

our ideals within Federation and how they compare and the light can only

28:15

shine bright in against that darkness.

28:18

Same with, Mariner saying, you know, this is, you know, this is heaven if

28:21

God was stupid, um, is a case of sure that, you know, the Federation may not

28:26

have religion in it, but religion is, is a powerful, potent thing that has

28:34

been around for thousands of years, and will be around for thousands more

28:37

years, whether you believe it or not. And ignoring it denies you so many opportunities for drama,

28:44

storytelling, character development, and telling other sides of the story.

28:48

And that was the beautiful thing about Deep Space Nine, with having

28:50

the Bajorans as a major focus. You get to see this, this culture that is fundamentally based on faith, and

28:57

everything else follows behind that. And how that affects that culture was fascinating to see, um,

29:03

and how Kira battled with it. And so to see that as well, how Nog dealt with his, he was torn

29:08

between his Ferengi, uh, culture and his, his ideals of Starfleet.

29:12

There's definitely more potential there and it shapes the Ferengi

29:15

out of just being the Ferengi are the funny, silly ones.

29:18

There is definitely more layers to them. Kevin: All right.

29:21

Well, it was there in the title all along. The Magnificent Ferengi is the best Ferengi episode of Star Trek Deep

29:28

Space Nine, if not of all of Star Trek.

29:31

Rob: I believe it is. Kevin: But yeah, this, this visit to Ferengi on Lower Decks this week was,

29:36

uh, maybe I will call it a close second. Rob: Well look, any reference where they have to put gold pressed platinum into

29:42

a machine so they could use the gold pressed latinum machine to use the toilet.

29:47

Um, I love that doubling up of gold pressed latinum.

29:50

And of course you can't park on Ferengenar for free. You cannot park in Ferenganar for free.

29:56

Wherever you park your ship, you have got to immediately

29:59

put in, uh, uh, latinum bars. Kevin: I am told also that Quark's Federation Experience bar that

30:06

Tendi and Rutherford go to is, its design is based on Star Trek:

30:11

The Experience from Las Vegas. The Ferengi bar that you went to at the end of that, uh, that

30:17

theme park ride into Star Trek.

30:19

Rob: There's a wonderful documentary on one of the DVDs.

30:22

I think it came out with the DVD box sets years ago, and I still kept that

30:26

even now I've got them all on Blu ray. Um, of the final days of the Star Trek Experience in Vegas when it closed

30:32

down, cause like, the actors who'd been working there for years in makeup

30:36

and, and, saying goodbye to that and especially quite recently The Galaxy's

30:40

Edge experience in Orlando has closed down, which was the interactive, um,

30:47

hotel experience, and I've had some friends who are actually cast in pivotal

30:51

roles in that, and they've been working on it for the last two or three years,

30:56

and like, they thought that was gonna be their retirement plan, that was them

31:00

till they were ready to give up acting. That was the rest of their acting career.

31:05

But to have it close down just after three years is an end of an

31:08

era and they, I remember that from the, the Star Trek Experience one.

31:11

These people who put years of, you know, life

31:15

Kevin: way, it feels like just like an unrecognized Star Trek cast breaking up.

31:20

Rob: Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I definitely had that connection with, um, seeing Quark's Federation Experience

31:26

was very much in the similar light. Kevin: Yeah.

31:29

All right. Well, at this point I have stopped entirely trying to guess what Lower

31:35

Decks will have for us next week. It is Rob: Well,

31:38

Kevin: a surprise and always a delight.

31:41

Rob: Well last episode we did sort of like bring in back to

31:44

the, to the arc that's happening. And we found out a little bit more this time

31:48

Kevin: Oh yeah, there was an interesting twist in the cold open there of the,

31:53

the Ferengi who had apparently made a deal with that ship to, to come

31:58

and, uh, they told us we would make lots of profit and, you know, him

32:02

saying, Oh, they're right on time.

32:04

So it's. It is suggesting that this is not an implacable, completely alien foe, that

32:12

this is a presence or a force that is able to cut a deal with a traitor on board

32:18

a Ferengi ship is really interesting. Rob: And, unlike previous episodes where they just happen to come across it, this

32:24

ship, you know, the ship that we have seen for the last previous episodes actually

32:29

transported into that space, you know, warped out into that space and came there

32:33

specifically to meet the Ferengi ship.

32:35

So, seeing Kevin: getting more.

32:38

Rob: Yeah, little bits here and there, so I thought we'd finish off the episode

32:41

like we did last week with a little bit of a hint on the arc that's happening.

32:45

Kevin: Indeed. Um, it took me way too long to catch on, but I have noticed this week that

32:50

no matter what species encounters that ship, the alert klaxon on board

32:56

is the exact same sound effect.

32:59

Rob: Of course is. Kevin: The alien red alert sound is the same no matter

33:03

what alien we're talking about. Rob: Excellent, it's the universal translator, it just

33:07

translated it into the same sound. Have you seen the, uh, uh, Very Short Trek episodes?

33:48

Kevin: I have seen all of the Very Short Treks, uh, and what

33:54

a roller coaster of strangeness.

33:57

Rob: Look, I think there's two that we haven't discussed.

33:59

So there was Worst Contact and,

34:02

Kevin: I don't think we've discussed anything except that very

34:04

first one, with the Skin a Cat. Rob: Uh, no, I think we did talk about the hologram one where there was a

34:09

hint of the Prodigy cast in there.

34:12

Kevin: Yes, that's right. What have you thought about our last couple of Very Short Trek outings?

34:18

Rob: Uh, Worst Contact did what it said on the tin, it was

34:20

incredibly gross and disgusting Kevin: We never talked about Holiday Party though, I have to say.

34:25

And I, Holiday Party is a weird one, where Spock is like screening

34:30

bloopers for the rest of the crew. Rob: Yes!

34:33

It's... Kevin: don't know, I feel like it, it's one that gets funnier with rewatches.

34:37

The first time I watched it, the stuff he was showing was so shocking and offensive,

34:43

that I was the screaming crew member running out crying in the background.

34:48

Uh, that, that kind of spoke to my reaction from the first time I watched it.

34:52

But, I have to give it credit, the more you watch it, the more

34:55

you become desensitized the trauma and, uh, and, and find the funny.

35:02

Rob: I mean, yeah, seeing, uh, half a crewman transported into, uh, is,

35:08

is one, one thing that sticks into the memory and it would take multiple

35:12

watches to be able to get past that and find out just how wickedly funny it is.

35:18

And Ethan Peck, again, you know, as you've said, MVP, uh, putting himself

35:22

out there and doing an incredible job. Kevin: Yeah, but this last one of Walk Don't Run with which culminates

35:28

in the jam session with Riker, Scotty, Scotty slash Ringo Starr.

35:33

I've, I did not resemblance now.

35:37

And Sulu, of course. Rob: Three part harmonies with, uh.

35:40

Tendi? Kevin: Yeah, narrated very capably by Tendi, and, uh, wow, it's, it's a journey.

35:47

I think it's at least twice as long as the others, or at least it feels it.

35:51

Rob: That they did the whole song. They did the I think they'd just do like a verse and a chorus, but I'm there

35:56

going no, they've gone to a bridge. They are, they are really packing in this whole song and let's, let's hear those

36:02

three part harmonies multiple times.

36:05

Kevin: Look, I'm going to say it, Rob. to be popular, but I'm going to say it.

36:09

This is the best musical episode that we've had of Star Trek this year.

36:14

Rob: Look, anything where they sample, uh, George Takei going, Oh my, and

36:20

repeating that over and over again, Um, I will always, and having Sulu and Riker

36:26

walk in with their musical instruments going, we're here to jam, anybody?

36:30

Kevin: It's a cheap laugh, but the half explosion cut off to the credits

36:36

at the end will never not be funny.

36:40

Rob: Ha ha Of course, uh, some of our, uh, favorite...

36:43

favourite, I do it in inverted commas, characters from The Animated

36:46

Series, and we have not seen since. Our, uh, three armed and three legged crew member,

36:51

Kevin: Yeah, Arex played by Jimmy Doohan in the animated series, so it

36:55

was weird that we had Scotty played by an actor who is not Jimmy Doohan in

37:01

this episode and, if they were really playing the fans, they would have had

37:04

the same actor play both of those voices because that's it was in the animated

37:08

Rob: Um, so yes, they were ridiculous and silly and I particularly liked,

37:12

um, Worst Contact, where they are the grossest people ever and put their fish

37:15

head casseroles into the microwave. Kevin: Oh, yeah, that was the worst one.

37:20

Um, I don't even want to spend time on that one.

37:23

It had some redeeming characteristics, but as soon as it was like,

37:27

oh, that's where you're going? Okay, I think done.

37:30

Rob: Yeah, we're done. Yep, just blow up, blow up, blow up the warp drive and get the hell out of there.

37:35

Kevin: Yeah, my summary is, I'm glad they ran experiment, there

37:40

were a couple of chuckles in there, but I'm also glad it's done.

37:43

I I Rob: Ha, ha Kevin: be hanging out for the next run of Very Short Treks.