0:01

Sometimes doing the right thing comes,

0:03

of course, be careful

0:06

you're falling lower.

0:17

Hey it's fifty.

0:18

Cents and I'm Charlie Webster. This

0:21

is surviving El Chapeau, The Twins who

0:23

brought down a druglord Season

0:25

two.

0:38

I know all too well the struggle that comes with choosing

0:41

a different life. For me, it was music

0:43

that allowed me to get out of the life and write

0:45

a new destiny for myself. For

0:48

Pedro and Mygodo Flores Junior, the

0:50

Flores twins, it's been a long journey

0:53

since they were sat in the backseat of their father's

0:55

car is seven years old, loaded with

0:57

drugs as it was moved across the Mexican

0:59

border.

1:00

That's what started it all.

1:02

Without even knowing, they were put on the path that they've

1:04

spent the last fourteen years trying to leave.

1:07

To change the legacy of the Flora's name. Billions

1:10

of dollars and thousands of decisions

1:12

over decades have brought the Flora's family

1:15

to where they are today.

1:17

The brothers said at that time, but as

1:19

far as the government is concerned, the

1:22

Flora's family haven't satisfied their

1:24

debt to society.

1:27

One of the reason why we want to. I wanted to share

1:29

the story.

1:31

These decisions we make, no matter how

1:34

they are or whatever we try to fix,

1:36

is coming at a cost. To this day,

1:39

we're still We're still

1:41

trying to make things right. We're still trying to

1:43

correct our wrongs, and you

1:46

know, we might get something right on one end and

1:48

fail on somewhere else.

1:51

As men. I've told about

1:53

this plenty of times.

1:56

The man that I was was I promised

1:59

her that we're going to a different life. That

2:02

I promised her, that was that put in home's

2:04

way, like her past relationships,

2:07

and I failed that by

2:09

far.

2:11

I always hold myself responsible.

2:13

Because I think that's what you do as a leader,

2:15

as a you know, as

2:18

ahead of your house or.

2:22

The man that I am.

2:22

I think I hold myself responsible for leaving

2:25

my family get to this point. You know, my

2:28

children, I failed them.

2:32

After the wives were initially arrested and

2:34

let go after two days, in twenty twenty

2:36

one, a case started to be built

2:39

by the government against Val and

2:41

viv Remember. Val

2:43

helped the government as part of j and

2:45

Pete's cooperation and turned

2:47

over four million dollars to

2:49

the FEDS from the twins drug activity.

2:52

Back in twenty ten, as

2:54

part of the twins case, the government

2:56

did a forensic investigation into

2:59

their financials and couldn't find

3:01

any further money that was out on the

3:03

streets. But it turns out

3:05

there was more money owed to the twins from

3:08

drug debts that the wives and Armando,

3:10

the twins older brother, collected and

3:12

hid from the government. The

3:14

government claimed they didn't know about

3:17

this money until they received a

3:19

tip off from someone very

3:21

close to the family.

3:25

Jerome Finnigin is the uncle

3:27

of vv's brother in law. Jerome

3:30

Finnegain was one of the corrupt Chicago

3:32

police officers that got picked up on the steamed back

3:34

in twenty sixty, and

3:37

part of that arrest was vv's

3:40

ex fiance Keith Herrera and

3:44

Jerome and other police

3:46

officers.

3:48

Police officers Keith Herrera and Jerome

3:50

Finnegan were partners on the force together

3:53

and known as two of the dirtiest

3:55

cops in Chicago. The two

3:57

of them topped the Chicago Police

4:00

Apartment's misconduct complaints list

4:02

in the five years between two thousand and one

4:05

and two thousand and six. Keith the

4:07

masked fifty three citizen complaints,

4:09

Jerome fifty two. Keith

4:13

and Jerome were closely linked

4:15

to Viv. Before Viv

4:17

got together with Pete, she was

4:19

actually engaged to Keith,

4:22

and Viv's sister Bianca,

4:24

ended up marrying Jerome's nephew.

4:28

In two thousand and six, Keith,

4:31

Jerome, and other police officers

4:33

were arrested for making unlawful arrests

4:35

and searches, gathering false evidence,

4:38

and stealing money from drug dealers.

4:41

In one instance, during an unlawful

4:43

traffic stop, they took the person's

4:45

house keys, broke into their house,

4:48

and took half a million dollars

4:51

in cash.

4:54

Well, when Keith flipped, he

4:57

you know, flipped with the Feds to corporate against

4:59

his fellow officers. Jerome

5:03

finking wanning to hire someone

5:05

to kill him.

5:07

Keith turned against Jerome and the other

5:10

officers and worked with the police

5:12

to bring them down. Jerome

5:14

found out and plotted to kill

5:16

his former partner Keith for cooperating,

5:19

but the FED foiled the murder for higher

5:22

plots, and Jerome was sentenced

5:24

to twelve years in prison. Keith

5:26

cooperation meant he was only sentenced

5:29

to two months.

5:32

Okay, so you know he got a rushed

5:34

in two thousand and six and he's in there in

5:37

the MCC right Metropol Correctional

5:39

Center in Chicago, the federal holdover right

5:41

for federal inmates, and

5:44

he's in the shoe. He's

5:46

in protective custody.

5:49

He's the orderly at that time when

5:51

me and my brother come in. So

5:54

orderly means he cleans up, he

5:56

helps out, you know, the correctional officers

5:59

if you eat something you asked to orderly. Like so

6:02

he's you know, sweets, mops, cleans

6:04

up, might past the food trays or whatever

6:07

the case is.

6:08

Jerome was the orderly at MCC Chicago.

6:11

When Pete and j first went to prison and

6:13

were in the shoe there, they

6:16

didn't know who Jerome was.

6:19

The weeks went by, he'll stop by, Hey,

6:22

I had no idea that he was related

6:25

to V's like related through marriage

6:28

to Vv's family, Like I

6:30

know who he is from the street, like I

6:32

know of him. But Pe,

6:36

you know, while we're in the shoe, they start talking and

6:38

he's like, hey, I know you and they're like, yeah,

6:40

I know.

6:41

You know, like they know that he.

6:42

Knows that Viviana's Peter's

6:45

wife. So they start making small talk

6:47

right Pee, you know, right

6:49

away befriends on then moving

6:52

forward I guess his

6:55

nephew, by chance, was a

6:57

person that my older brother had

7:00

help bring back the money from Washington,

7:02

DC. And

7:05

he goes the nephews go visit

7:07

his uncle, and the uncle convinces

7:10

him Jerome to bring

7:12

the information to the FED so that he could get

7:14

a lighter sentence. So

7:17

that's how the FED found out.

7:20

Jerome was desperate to get out of prison.

7:22

He would do anything he could to get information

7:25

out of inmates that he could use as a

7:27

bargaining tool to help him get his sentence

7:29

reduced. That's why

7:32

he befriended Pete. Jerome

7:34

found out that there was money hidden

7:37

from the twins drug debts. Jerome's

7:40

nephew, the one married to viv sister

7:43

Bianca, helped Armando,

7:45

Ja and Pete's older brother to collect

7:47

the four million dollars from DC that

7:50

vow turned over to the government, but

7:53

Jerome knew there was more. He

7:56

pushed his nephew to give that information

7:58

to the FEDS, and the tip off

8:00

from Jerome is what the government

8:02

used to arrest Val and Viv.

8:06

Jerome didn't end up getting any time

8:08

off his sentence. Armando

8:12

was also arrested for his part

8:14

in the collection of the money. If

8:16

you remember, when fifty and I were recording

8:18

season one, the Flores family

8:20

found out that Armando had

8:22

decided to cooperate with the

8:25

government. After his arrest, Armando

8:27

confessed that there was more money

8:30

and provided evidence that ultimately

8:33

implicated the wives. Armando

8:36

was given an ultimatum by the government

8:39

to either serve serious time and

8:41

face deportation. If you

8:43

recall, J and P got him a US visa

8:45

as part of their deal to cooperate or

8:47

get favorable terms in exchange

8:50

for information on the wives.

8:54

Jan Peter's older brother thanks

8:57

like.

8:59

My best friend, and

9:02

I mean I love him unconditionally,

9:04

and I worry

9:07

about his immigration

9:10

status and him being

9:12

deported.

9:14

Yeah, I mean, no matter what, I'm for my brother

9:16

to be put in the best scenario possible

9:19

now got himself and

9:21

his family.

9:23

Just can't wait to put this behind us

9:26

and.

9:26

Just get through it as a family like we've always

9:28

done.

9:32

Amount of resources it takes into something like

9:34

this, I wonder why the streets have

9:36

flood away heroin and cocaine

9:39

and even more dangerous stuff now

9:42

fentanon and all kinds of shady Okay, because

9:44

you know.

9:47

That's why I'd be focused on. Every

9:49

office has.

9:50

The decision to

9:53

you know, where they put their time and resources

9:55

at.

9:56

And I can't agree that this is the

9:58

best, you know, way to do that.

10:01

But that's just my opinion onwill

10:05

all the other people are just keep doing

10:08

what I was, you know, all the next P and J's

10:10

probably there now building his empire round

10:12

and orders.

10:17

The first thing that prosecutor

10:21

will generally tell a cooperator or

10:23

potential cooperator is the cooperation

10:25

is an all or nothing proposition.

10:28

That's Michael Ferrara, the assistant

10:31

US attorney that worked J and P's

10:33

case against El Chapo from the

10:35

very beginning. He worked alongside

10:37

Thomas Shakeshaft and Adam Fels.

10:40

And the government needs to need that

10:42

to be true when they say it.

10:43

They absolutely need it.

10:44

And so the reason for a prosecution

10:47

like that is that it's a betrayal of

10:49

trust at some level that they were given

10:51

a second chance, they were given a clean

10:53

slate, and decided

10:55

to use drug proceeds for material

10:57

things in a way that was very

11:00

avoidable.

11:02

According to the government. In addition

11:04

to the four million dollars from DC that

11:07

Vile turned over to them, there was another

11:09

two point three million dollars that

11:12

they never told anyone about. One

11:14

day, a U haul truck arrived

11:17

at the twins older brother Armando's house

11:19

in Austin, Texas. The truck

11:21

was piled high with second hand

11:24

furniture. Hidden inside

11:26

the furniture with stacks

11:28

of cash two point three

11:30

million dollars worth. Armando

11:34

stored the money under his porch and

11:36

sat on it for four years until

11:39

twenty fifteen, when he started

11:41

dispersing it to the wives

11:43

in increments on average of nine

11:45

thousand dollars via US

11:47

Priority mail and UPS

11:50

packages, as well as through gift

11:52

cards. He would then pay himself

11:54

a fee out of each delivery.

11:57

The government accused the wives of living

11:59

a life ravish lifestyle, using

12:01

the money to pay for luxury cars,

12:04

designer purss, a platoon

12:06

exercise bike, as well as private

12:08

school for their children, living costs

12:10

like rent, and over ninety nine

12:13

thousand dollars on vacations.

12:17

The government clearly made the decision that

12:19

that couldn't be tolerated, that they

12:21

needed to send a message to other

12:23

co operators, to just society as

12:27

a whole, that if you join the

12:29

government's team, that has to meaning

12:31

from sort of beginning to end you

12:33

can't be a cooperator and hiden.

12:35

Driump proceeds and living off of drum proceeds.

12:37

At the same time, I.

12:42

Feel that in J

12:44

and Peter sentencing memorandum,

12:47

they spun it to the court like we

12:50

basically benefited because

12:52

we were given immunity.

12:54

But fast forward ten years they come and guide

12:56

us. It's like they're

12:59

trying to change the narrative. And

13:01

I feel like the US Attorney's

13:03

Office today is very different than

13:06

what it was back in two thousand and eight,

13:08

and I feel that they didn't have a

13:10

certain roulebook to go by, and because

13:13

this case was so big for J and Peter,

13:15

I feel like there were mistakes

13:18

made because it's never been done

13:20

before on both sides.

13:23

I don't fault anyone.

13:24

I just feel like the US

13:26

Attorney's Office at the time, they didn't have

13:29

the I want to say, the

13:31

right guidance we

13:34

were given, you know, certain

13:37

benefits. I

13:40

feel that today

13:43

those things that we were promised

13:46

that obviously they're frowned

13:48

upon. But at the same time, you

13:50

can't punish our family because

13:53

that's something that somebody

13:55

that was a representative of the government,

13:58

you know, which is Thomas Shaikshaft, he actually

14:01

promised us these certain things when it

14:03

comes to immunity or when it comes to us

14:05

being able to keep a portion of the money. So

14:08

if we were given these promises and

14:11

we were led to believe that

14:13

this was going to be

14:16

embedded in.

14:17

Their cooperation, then how.

14:19

Is it when you fast forward ten years they're

14:21

able to charge us on the things

14:23

that we were supposed to be promised and

14:26

we were given. On

14:29

March twenty fourth, twenty eleven, the

14:32

day I proffered, I spoke to

14:34

Thomas Shakeshaft, which is a US attorney

14:36

that was in charge. He basically

14:38

told me not to worry. I'm not going to be charged.

14:42

I took that as reassurance that

14:45

they would never prosecute me. At

14:49

my proper meeting was Thomas Shakeshaft,

14:52

Michael Ferrara, and

14:55

DEA agents that were involved

14:57

in the case. Thomas Shakeshaft

15:00

he told Jay and Peter

15:02

at a profit session that

15:05

he didn't want to wipe them out of

15:08

their money.

15:10

So these things are being said

15:12

to our husbands, these things are being said

15:14

to us. These things are not you know, they're

15:16

not seizing certain things even

15:19

though I'm saying that we paid for all of this

15:21

stuff with drug proceeds from

15:23

our husband's business. It's like

15:25

they're allowing us to keep them, and

15:28

so I don't understand

15:30

how you can turn

15:33

around and a decade

15:35

later come back and then

15:37

charge us.

15:39

The wives filed emotion to dismiss

15:41

their charges in twenty twenty two,

15:44

claiming that the twins deal provided

15:46

them with immunity from charges

15:48

related to the twins' crimes. The

15:51

wives argued that the government allowed

15:53

them to keep the money, and that's in

15:55

a profit session with US Assistant

15:57

Attorney Thomas Shakeshaft, all

16:00

had tried to make the government aware

16:02

there was extra money out there, but

16:04

they didn't want to hear about it. All

16:07

they were focused on was getting El

16:09

Chapo behind bars. A

16:12

pre trial hearing was held for Judge Matthew

16:14

Kennelly to examine the evidence. The

16:17

wives had planned to have US Assistant Attorney

16:20

Thomas Shakeshaft testify, but

16:23

one week before the hearing, on

16:25

July the nineteenth, shake Shaft

16:28

died from chronic health problems

16:31

and alcoholism. His

16:33

alcoholism was blamed in

16:35

part on the stress of the Flora's

16:37

case. Michael Ferrara

16:40

was called by the government to be a witness.

16:42

Here's what he had to say to us about the alleged

16:45

immunity deal.

16:46

The way that it was presented in that defense is

16:49

effectively that they were immunized forever

16:51

more that they could do whatever

16:53

they wanted in the future, which I

16:55

don't know if that's a thing period in law

16:58

enforcement, but it certainly wasn't here. And

17:01

immunity like that can only come in

17:03

writing, and it can only come from.

17:05

The US attorney. And I'm positive

17:07

that no.

17:08

Immunity was issued by any US

17:10

attorney in Chicago. The wives

17:12

were entitled to take, i mean, just blatant

17:15

drug proceeds and do whatever they want with them.

17:18

The other comment I can make is that

17:20

the whole thing is very unnecessary

17:24

and unfortunate for

17:26

their families. And I

17:29

truly do believe that Pete

17:31

and Jay cooperated to give their families

17:33

a better life, and they had the opportunity

17:36

to do that, and so

17:38

to allow sort of like material things

17:41

like spending money private

17:43

schools, going on trips, the

17:45

kind of things that they appear to have spent their money

17:47

on, all of that is just stupid

17:50

in my opinion. I mean, to risk your

17:52

freedom risk the safety of your families

17:55

over things like that. It's just sad. It's

17:57

a sad thing for their families. It's just a really

18:00

unfortunate thing that those kids were deprived

18:02

of being around their dads for so long

18:04

and now for how way long they're going to be deprived

18:07

of being around their mothers in a meaningful way, all

18:10

for something that was one hundred percent

18:12

avoidable if they just would have, you

18:14

know, sort of.

18:15

Kept their heads down, drove a used

18:17

minivan and those kind of things.

18:20

The flip site to that, though, is I mean, in

18:23

comparison to again, like

18:25

two tons a month of cocaine coming into Chicago

18:28

and Chapola being prosecuted and all that,

18:30

you're talking about a much smaller sum

18:33

of money. And whether it's

18:35

it sent the right message to use government

18:38

resources like that to go after people

18:41

who cooperated in a

18:43

way that that did a lot of did

18:45

a lot of good and had a lot of benefit to DJ

18:48

So I think reasonable minds could differ on

18:50

that and whether it sends a

18:52

strong enough message of what should

18:54

happen that that it's worth the potential

18:57

downside.

19:00

To the wives and their lawyers. It was

19:02

the government that broke its promise to

19:04

the Florest family from the

19:06

very beginning the Twins corporation

19:09

and Pete's eventual testimony in court

19:11

against Alchapo was done with

19:13

the understanding that the rest of the

19:15

family will be kept out of it. When

19:18

questioned during the El Chapo trial, Pete

19:21

testified that his wife Viv

19:24

had been given immunity as part

19:26

of his corporation deal. The

19:28

point was made by Valenvi's defense

19:30

team that Pete spent eighteen

19:33

months being prepped by the government

19:35

to take the stand against Alchapo,

19:38

and at no point, including

19:40

under oath in court, was there ever

19:42

any challenge to the notion that

19:45

the wives had immunity.

19:48

The wives argue that the government

19:50

knew that there was money they were using

19:52

to live off, and that it was used

19:54

to pay for their kids' education and

19:57

their own living expenses. A

19:59

single mother, they had to move their

20:01

families across the country every

20:03

time J and P were transferred. Viv

20:06

had to move sixteen times due

20:09

to viable threats on her life.

20:13

The motion to dismiss the chargers was

20:15

denied. They each had a choice

20:17

to take their case to trial, but they

20:19

were advised that the negative public perception

20:22

would make a trial difficult. Instead,

20:25

they each pled guilty to money laundering

20:28

conspiracy.

20:45

Viv was sentenced to three

20:47

and a half years in prison and

20:50

ordered to pay five hundred and four

20:52

thousand, eight hundred and fifty

20:54

eight dollars in forfeitshire. She

20:57

went to prison on the nineteenth

20:59

of October twenty twenty three.

21:04

It's definitely scary because I

21:06

mean, unusually, I mean,

21:08

Peter is a very you

21:12

know, his presence is like

21:15

the rock of our family. I

21:17

felt like I took his face when he had to

21:19

leave, you know, I took over and

21:21

I had to do I had to be mom and

21:23

dad everything.

21:27

This is what kills me.

21:28

I think that it's you know, it's

21:31

really really, definitely hard. I

21:33

wasn't built for this, definitely wasn't

21:35

built for this.

21:36

But a strong woman, and

21:38

by far I know I am.

21:41

I think that my kids would

21:45

definitely be very

21:49

This is a scar that probably

21:53

would never ever, ever would

21:55

be able to repair.

21:58

We sit here and you know, you

22:01

know, we've been here with you, Charlie for so

22:03

many days, and you know, we talk about

22:06

the kids and how we wanted to change their lights,

22:08

and I feel like we're right

22:10

back.

22:11

We're right back exactly where we

22:14

never wanted to be.

22:18

Vaal received the same sentence

22:20

as Viv three and a half

22:22

years in prison, plus a

22:24

five hundred and four thousand, eight

22:27

hundred and fifty eight dollars forfeiture.

22:30

She goes to prison on January

22:32

tenth, twenty twenty four.

22:35

I felt like I was being targeted. I

22:41

felt like they wanted to make an example of

22:43

me, which is hurtful.

22:47

But after understanding,

22:51

you know, the government, the prosecutors

22:54

that are in charge today of the case,

22:57

I feel like they're only doing their job.

23:00

And I know that if

23:02

they were, you

23:04

know, the prosecutors back then when

23:07

my husband was cooperating, I feel

23:09

like things would have been a lot different. I

23:12

did actually testify

23:15

at my hearing, and I did take accountability

23:17

for money laundering.

23:21

However, I did believe that I had immunity.

23:24

Whether the government agrees with that

23:26

or not or just going to agree

23:28

to disagree, but unfortunately I'm

23:31

going to have to go to prison.

23:34

Think that I'm fighting with that, I'm struggling with,

23:37

you know.

23:37

In court, I apologize to my children,

23:40

you know, for the pain I caused, and I just

23:43

regret putting them through this again.

23:46

But I feel really blessed with

23:49

the time that I did get because I got three

23:51

and a half years, and I feel like that was a blessing

23:53

for me. Especially this

23:56

is my second time going away for money laundering,

23:58

so I think that I'm very

24:00

fortunate because it could have went a

24:03

lot different, that's for sure.

24:07

You might remember back in season one

24:09

that val has been to prison before. As

24:12

a teenager, she fell in with the wrong

24:14

crowd and was used as a drug

24:16

mule. Before Jay, she

24:18

was married to notorious Latin King's

24:20

boss Rudy Cato Rankel, also

24:23

known as King Kato. Before

24:25

Cato, she was married at twenty

24:28

one for a short time to Valentine

24:30

Rivella's, who was working for the Juarez

24:32

cartel. While she was married

24:34

to Rivella's, she became caught up

24:37

in his business dealings.

24:40

Back in two thousand, in my prior

24:42

marriage, I was married

24:45

to a drug dealer and he

24:47

got indicted for a drug conspiracy. I

24:52

deposited money in the bank for

24:55

him in my accounts and that's what got

24:57

me into trouble and he ended up cooperating

24:59

against me and I went

25:01

to prison for it. I

25:04

received the ten months but sentence

25:06

where I was in prison for five

25:08

months and the other five months I was on house

25:10

arrest. There's

25:13

consequences to

25:16

everything that we do. And sometimes when

25:18

you're in love with someone, or sometimes when

25:20

you're in a relationship, you don't think about certain

25:22

things. You put yourself second and

25:25

you don't realize how this can affect

25:27

you.

25:28

And I just hope that, like,

25:31

by.

25:32

Sharing my story, you know, I just want to bring awareness

25:34

to like other women that have like walked

25:36

in my shoes and that have that

25:39

are going through this and sometimes

25:41

you're living that life and it's like a really

25:43

fast lifestyle, right and

25:45

you don't realize the consequences

25:47

that comes with this life. I'm

25:51

hoping that other women can make

25:53

better choices than I did. I

25:55

mean, it could be anything taken a small

25:58

gift from someone, or

26:00

just trying to be loyal to the person that

26:03

you're with, whether it's your husband or your

26:05

boyfriend, and just trying to, you know, get

26:07

through life. It's like you don't

26:09

realize that these choices

26:12

that you make it can affect you and

26:16

they can definitely change

26:18

your life. And I'm hoping that other women

26:20

can see my story and they

26:23

can maybe think twice about it and

26:25

not put themselves in that position. Every

26:29

choice you make, it has a consequence.

26:31

For sure.

26:34

I went through a lot of trauma, and

26:38

you know, I talk about abusive relationships all

26:40

the time, and

26:43

I think that it definitely affected

26:48

my thought process and

26:50

the things that I've done. But

26:52

I honestly thought that it'd be different when I

26:54

met Day. I

26:56

felt like, you know, Jay was totally different

26:59

from any person I have ever been with, and

27:02

so I saw the good in him and I really

27:04

thought that I could change him. And

27:07

I was happy that the judge acknowledged

27:09

that in court, and he did

27:11

say that I know that

27:14

it was because if you convinced

27:16

your husband to change his life, and

27:19

I think with that type of validation,

27:21

I felt like, you know what this

27:24

is for something, And I feel like our

27:27

lives could have turned out a lot different.

27:30

Than what it is today.

27:32

And I feel like if

27:36

Jay didn't make the choice that he made to

27:38

change his life, he probably wouldn't be here today,

27:40

and for me and my children, they

27:42

probably would have wiped out our whole family.

27:47

How do you feel about and

27:49

how you're going to cope with prison? Is there anything

27:52

you've thought about and has

27:54

it come up in your head about your

27:56

own safety.

27:59

In court, you know, there's

28:02

a Mexican lady in there. She

28:05

was sitting in the back row and

28:09

I could just feel her eyes burning

28:11

through me. And when I

28:13

was walking out, she

28:16

just looked at me and smartd and

28:19

I was walking out of the building, out

28:22

of the courthouse. She was recording me and

28:25

taking pictures of me. And

28:28

it's scary because at

28:30

the end of the day, there are people

28:33

looking for us, and these

28:35

are things that we have to continue to

28:37

live with.

28:39

I don't know, it just doesn't feel good at

28:42

all.

28:44

It is scary. You know, I've been to prison

28:46

before, so I know what it

28:48

feels like. More

28:50

so of just the fact of being

28:53

alone. And I think that's what scares

28:55

me, you know, just you

29:00

know, it's it's really

29:02

hard to just you

29:04

know, to your time alone. And I think

29:08

that's the hart that scares

29:10

me the most.

29:15

Vows with Jay as I was speaking to

29:17

her after a sentencing and I

29:19

asked Jay, well, seeing his wife

29:21

go through something that was ultimately caused

29:24

by him, felt like.

29:27

You can't even put what we're feeling against into

29:29

words. And to see her struggle

29:31

like like she don't have to say it

29:33

to me because I

29:35

am I.

29:36

Understand my kids

29:38

would have to lose their mom for

29:42

a little bit.

29:42

And that's

29:45

hard, you know, like being

29:47

the person that I am, no matter what, I'm

29:51

always gonna call myself responsible

29:55

because I, you know, made a vow to protect

29:57

her and keep her my children safe, and I fail.

30:02

And this is all consequences of.

30:06

Me not being there for her or not being there

30:08

for my children.

30:09

It's gonna be hard to come, you know, to day she

30:12

has to turn herself in and

30:14

she would never be alone. I

30:17

could promise her that she was

30:19

always there for me, and

30:22

I even felt, you know, I felt bad that couldn't

30:25

be with her her sentencing, that couldn't hold her

30:27

hand and just And

30:29

it's gonna be like that as well.

30:30

Because of her being in prison.

30:33

I am one hundred percent sure that

30:35

they're not gonna allow me to visit her for safety

30:37

reasons. The BP would never

30:39

allow me to step foot in

30:42

their facility. So you

30:44

know, that's another hard trip that we're gonna have to

30:47

face. The punishment

30:49

and its own, it's one

30:52

thing, but the pain that we're

30:54

actually gonna feel from that punishment, it's totally

30:57

on a different level.

30:59

It's hard to cope with right.

31:03

But moving forward, I

31:05

have faith in my wife and us

31:07

and our family that we're going to get through this and

31:10

we're going to be together again and continue

31:13

on what we just started to do was to

31:17

try to live, you know, a normal life

31:20

as a family again. It's

31:23

going to be put on pause for a little bit, and

31:28

I just have I'm

31:31

going to have a lot of work to do. I have to measure

31:34

up to all

31:36

of who val is, and that's the scary

31:38

part to me. For sure, that

31:41

could be a lot of things, but I could never fill

31:43

her shoes.

31:46

If I wasn't with Ja, I probably wouldn't be going

31:48

through this today. For sure, my

31:52

life would be a lot different. But

31:55

at the end of the day, I don't regret

31:57

it. I love my husband, I love

31:59

my children, I love my family, and

32:04

I feel like I'll be okay. There's

32:08

a light at the end of the tunnel. I

32:10

truly believe that this is the last obstacle,

32:13

and I really know that once

32:15

this is over, we can finally have a fresh

32:17

start at life.

32:22

Valenviev will be released from prison

32:25

in early twenty twenty seven. At

32:27

the same time that Valenviev were being sentenced

32:30

for charges related to the spending of drug

32:33

proceeds. El Chapo's wife,

32:35

Emma Coronel Aspuro, was released

32:37

from prison. She pled

32:39

guilty to the distribution of

32:42

cocaine, heroine, and over a

32:44

thousand kilograms of marijuana,

32:46

as well as laundering narcotics proceeds

32:49

and assisting her husband El

32:51

Chapo in his drug business. At

32:54

her sentencing, the fact that she

32:56

facilitated El Chapo's escape

32:58

from prison in Mexico was

33:00

also brought up. She was

33:02

sentenced to just three years

33:04

in prison and was released after

33:07

twenty one months and two weeks, a

33:09

little under two years. As

33:11

Valenviev were getting ready to go to prison,

33:14

Emma was parting it up in Los

33:16

Angeles. Valenviev's

33:21

case brought up questions about

33:23

what this means for future cooperators

33:25

and the message it sends when cooperation

33:28

is often based on trust between

33:30

the cooperator and the government.

33:33

I asked Michael Ferrara how important

33:35

cooperators are when it comes to prosecuting

33:38

a case.

33:40

It is the single most important thing

33:42

it is to be able to develop cooperators

33:45

once a case reaches a certain level of complexity,

33:48

and certainly when you're talking about like an international

33:50

criminal organization as large as the sin of Little

33:52

Cortel and all of the various things that feed

33:54

the Cortel and help it to exist,

33:57

the corruption, all of that. You

33:59

can put a case together

34:02

without sort of like an insider point of view.

34:04

I mean, you need a tour.

34:05

Guide to say, like, this is how this worked,

34:07

and this is who this guy was, and this is how we did

34:09

this thing. So without

34:11

that, those kind of massive cases

34:14

just realistically don't come together. When

34:18

the Twins surrendered, I mean, they were certainly

34:20

the largest drug traffickers in Chicago

34:22

history, which is saying something, and

34:25

at the time they surrendered, they were probably the largest

34:27

in the United States. They

34:30

were at the tippy top of the drug world,

34:33

but they were largely insulated from

34:36

like the violence and a lot of the things

34:38

that come along with that. And

34:40

I think at that time, like around

34:42

two thousand and eight, Mexico

34:44

was just exploding with narco

34:47

violence. They

34:49

were smart enough to realize that they were at the

34:51

level where they either needed to become

34:53

Chopo and everything that comes along with that, or

34:56

turn against Chopo and try to basically.

34:59

Hit to reset.

35:00

And what

35:02

they did was extraordinarily

35:05

uncommon. They were at

35:07

the top of the drug world. It

35:09

is ultra rare where somebody

35:11

in that position decides to hang.

35:13

It up before they're caught.

35:16

That facilitated their

35:18

cooperation in a way that was really unique.

35:21

The twins were winning.

35:23

They were under no suspicion from the cartel, or

35:25

their customers or any of these other components

35:28

of the drug trafficking and money laundering conspiracies

35:31

in which they operated that they

35:33

were cooperating, So that enabled them to do all kinds

35:35

of things that the otherwise would not have been able to do,

35:38

or resulted in a lot more

35:40

people being prosecuted and much more

35:42

robust prosecutions that were it's

35:45

always trial proof because you had those recordings,

35:47

you had the life seizures, you had undercover officers

35:50

being inserted to a mix, all those kinds of things. The

35:53

flip side to that is because

35:56

their cooperation was so long and

35:58

ongoing, they were put under

36:00

a microscope like few cooperators are,

36:03

and so the US government certainly

36:06

knew more about them than your average

36:08

cooperator. I

36:10

mean, in some ways you could say that they're penalized for their

36:13

truthfulness, but I don't know

36:15

that that's fair because again, you sort

36:18

of have to go back to that all or nothing proposition,

36:21

and so even if you look at it as what

36:23

it was, a fourteen year sentence,

36:27

had they not cooperated and had

36:29

they been arrested, they absolutely

36:31

would have died in prison.

36:35

J and P cooperated to give their family

36:38

a chance at a better life, but

36:40

taken down the world's most neworious drug

36:42

Blood was bigger than just the Flores

36:44

family. I wondered what impact

36:47

the twins' decision had on the drug epidemic,

36:49

and with actually catching El Chapo made

36:52

a difference.

36:54

The macro level effect on drug

36:56

trafficking, it's hard to claim

36:58

it was positive at all. A drug trafficking

37:01

still exists the United

37:03

States.

37:04

Problems are just as bad,

37:06

if not worse, today than they were at

37:08

any.

37:09

Of the times when when Choppo was caught or

37:11

convicted, or any of those those road

37:13

markers. The cartel is

37:16

cartel's plural. It's kingpins

37:19

like Chopo are taken taken out, like

37:21

the cartels, tend to fracture and splinter,

37:25

and the unfortunate trend has been like

37:27

the most violent people, the people who

37:30

are the most ruthless, the most willing to

37:32

use violence to sort of enforce their business

37:34

ways, risen to the

37:36

top of these now splintered organizations.

37:39

They don't get.

37:39

Along, they fight each other, and

37:42

so that is ramping up the bolent side

37:44

in Mexico. And then on the supply

37:46

side, I mean, again, things are as

37:49

bad as they they've ever been, with

37:51

much more potent, much more dangerous drugs.

37:54

On your question, like, what did removing Choppo do

37:57

If you look at it through that lens, like, there's

37:59

no positive, but I don't

38:01

think that's a fair way to look at it at all.

38:03

You also just have to.

38:04

Look at who Chopel was as a person,

38:07

and he is one of the most prolific criminals

38:10

in history. I

38:12

mean, he is singularly responsible for thousands

38:14

and thousands of deaths, whether they

38:17

be drug related deaths, whether they be deaths

38:19

by violence, all political

38:21

corruption where the tentacles extend.

38:23

All over the world.

38:26

He was just a completely terrible

38:28

person to leave out there in the world,

38:31

and so removing him and the leadership

38:33

structure that was around him that

38:35

the twins were central to all of that, Like,

38:38

if you look at it through that lens, it was historic,

38:41

an immensely beneficial

38:43

good thing that happened.

38:46

But again it's just a balance. Did

38:49

chopel and drugs. No,

38:52

of course not.

38:52

But to taking him out did that remove

38:55

a great threat to everything from

38:57

Mexican security to U S

38:59

security, to just having an

39:01

infrastructure in place that was exceptionally

39:04

good at moving drugs, nor of pulling

39:06

money and guns south with all of those things.

39:09

That, yes, it was a positive to

39:11

take him out of commission. The

39:15

Twins, they were supplying so much of

39:17

the drug market, and in particular the cocaine

39:19

market in Chicago in the country

39:22

that when they left, I mean, there was

39:24

certainly a temporary drop

39:27

in drug levels.

39:28

So I mean, at their peak they were importing.

39:31

About two tons a month of

39:33

cocaine into the United States, about

39:36

a full ton of that state in Chicago

39:38

and was distributed in the Chicago area,

39:40

which is just a staggering amount. And

39:43

then the other time went all over the place.

39:45

It fed New York, DC,

39:48

places on the East coast. And

39:51

so when that switch went from

39:53

on off suddenly and

39:56

the Twins weren't pushing that product into

39:58

the United States, that only

40:00

made levels drop and made things more expensive.

40:03

All of that, and in

40:05

the process of their cooperation, they took

40:07

out people who were massive drug traffickers

40:10

in their own right, so all

40:12

of them left in a comparatively short period

40:14

of time. It's getting people who

40:17

were very bad for society out of

40:19

the mix. And for a short period of

40:21

time, it did make cocaine in particular.

40:23

Harder to get.

40:25

But wherever there's that void, it's going to get

40:27

very very quickly filled, and

40:29

it did.

40:30

Cocaine levels rebounded, And

40:32

right around.

40:33

That time is when the cartel

40:35

started moving into the

40:38

opioid markets, and

40:40

Chopo and people like Chopo recognized

40:42

that their profit margins were dramatically,

40:45

dramatically higher with opioids

40:47

period because they could grow poppies

40:50

in Mexico, and then with synthetic

40:52

opiods in particular, once they started

40:54

to fully understand the benefits of

40:56

fentanyl, how cheaply it can be

40:58

manufactured, pope and it is where

41:01

if you get one kilo of fentol to the United

41:04

States, it's the same as getting fifty kilo as a heroine.

41:06

And so I mean that that's just a horrific.

41:08

Formula for more drugs

41:11

and more dangerous drugs getting pushed out

41:13

on the street if you look at it holistically,

41:16

like problems are worse after the

41:18

Twins cooperation than they were before

41:20

the Twins cooperation, which is a

41:23

depressing thing to say about, but.

41:24

I think it's it's a very true thing to

41:26

say.

41:29

Despite the work to stop it, the drug

41:32

tray continues to grow. The

41:34

removal of Al Chapo didn't end

41:36

the Sinila cartel. His four

41:38

sons, together known as Lost Japzzas,

41:41

took over the cartel in his place. They

41:44

are known as being richer, more

41:46

powerful, and more violent than

41:49

Al Chapo ever was Lost

41:52

Japzos used corkscrews,

41:54

electrocution, and hot chilis

41:56

to torture their rivals and feed

41:58

people to tiger. In

42:02

January of this year, twenty twenty three,

42:05

one of El Chapo's sons, Olivido

42:07

Guzman Lopez, the logistics

42:09

manager for the cartel, was arrested

42:12

in a bloody operation resulting

42:14

in twenty nine deaths. In

42:16

September, Olivido was extradited

42:19

to the US. The other three

42:21

sons continue to run the cartel.

42:24

One of them, Ivan Arcovaldo,

42:26

is now on the DEA's most wanted

42:28

list with a ten million dollar

42:30

bounty on his head, a higher

42:33

bounty than his father, El Chapo

42:35

ever had. As

42:38

for El Chapo, he's still trying

42:40

to appeal his sentence. Over

42:58

the past three years, I've gotten to know the Flores

43:01

family really well. In sharing

43:03

their story, they opened up about

43:05

things they've never spoken about before. Fifteen

43:09

years ago, that one decision to

43:11

turn themselves in sets off a domino

43:13

effect that led to where they are today.

43:16

I couldn't help but wonder if Jay still

43:19

felt it was all worth it. How

43:22

do you feel about that decision

43:24

you made all those years

43:26

ago now to turn yourself

43:28

in.

43:30

I don't live with regrets tortally.

43:32

I trust

43:35

in God that he had led us to this point.

43:40

I believe that everything

43:43

that's good that came out of my decision was

43:45

from Him. And I feel like everything that

43:50

hasn't been good has been

43:52

because of our

43:55

personal mistakes.

43:57

And I would never want

43:59

to change work. You know, the positive

44:01

outcome that

44:04

that He has blessed us with. We're

44:07

far removed from that life except

44:09

for our legal issues. You know,

44:12

I've been home almost three years.

44:15

It's been fifteen years since we

44:17

made that decision and we decided

44:19

to turn our life around, and fifteen years

44:21

that I got to be a husband and father, even

44:24

though I was away from my wife

44:26

and children for twelve years. I

44:28

still got to see my children

44:31

grow and become

44:33

these amazing

44:35

young men and young women,

44:37

and I get to still be a

44:40

father to my children. I feel like even

44:42

though it was from Afar, I still was able

44:44

to feel that, And there's nothing

44:49

more important to me than that.

44:51

I feel like that it's a blessing in itself.

44:53

That would never second guess or never

44:56

want to change.

44:59

I still have my wife life, I

45:03

still have my family, and it was what

45:05

I did it for the first place. I'm

45:09

looking forward to, you know, all

45:11

the amazing opportunities

45:14

that are away for us in the future, and I

45:17

know we're going to get through this. I

45:20

feel like we have to take the good with the

45:23

bad and the bad with the good, and

45:26

I honestly feel there's a lot more good us

45:32

sharing our personal lives review with the

45:34

world. It's about our suffering.

45:36

It's about all these small

45:39

decisions just

45:42

snowball.

45:43

Into a whole lot

45:45

of suffering.

45:45

For so many lives, for so

45:48

many of our family members, for our children, for

45:50

us, And it continues, and

45:53

it's a fight

45:55

to just want to make things right.

46:00

And I

46:02

know that there's not many people who have walked

46:05

in those shoes as me and my brother who has

46:07

made it that far up into

46:09

the you know, cartel life

46:12

or drug trafficking

46:14

life. And there's a

46:16

reason why my brother and I decided to

46:18

change our lives along.

46:19

With our family, with our wives.

46:21

You know, we want to change our lives because it's

46:24

we would never choose anything else but our family.

46:28

And I

46:31

just have this burning desire to not

46:34

let this go, not let you know, all

46:36

my children suffering, my wife's suffering,

46:38

for it to be for nothing. I

46:42

feel like we were meant to be here, We were

46:45

meant to come this far, and

46:47

I feel like it was to share into our testimony

46:49

to our past life and hopefully

46:52

inspire someone not just in drug trafficking, to

46:54

say, hey, you know what, I was on the opposite

46:56

end of something really bad, and

47:00

through support through

47:02

my family, I had to endure

47:05

some sacrifice. It

47:08

was suffering, but after

47:11

that suffering because of choices I made,

47:14

that was able to turn that into something positive,

47:18

something that could bring

47:20

hope to other people, right, something that

47:22

could make my first so that my children could

47:24

go back and say, hey, you know what, I

47:27

spent all these years without my father, without

47:29

my mom, but you know what, it came

47:31

for a good cause because my dad was able

47:34

to change his life for wrong and he had

47:36

an impact on his war on drugs. He

47:38

had an impact on something that he helped create,

47:43

and that's important to me. I

47:46

have the potential that potentially

47:49

right changed

47:52

the way the war on drugs has been attacked

47:55

or dealt with for the last fifty years.

48:01

Jay is now working with Dynamic Police

48:03

Training to educate law enforcements

48:05

on the intricacies of the drug world.

48:08

He runs a course called From Kingpin

48:11

to Educator.

48:13

I did my first conference, my first law

48:15

enforcement conference. I was a guest speaker

48:18

for four hundred and fifty officers in

48:20

August and the state,

48:22

federal law

48:25

enforcement, and some local law enforcement.

48:28

And by chance,

48:30

I was speaking

48:32

to these law

48:34

enforcement officers and I got pulled

48:37

to the site by for d EA

48:39

officers that were part of the swat

48:41

team that rated my home when

48:44

they came to arrest Vow. And

48:49

that is a moment where it's like wow,

48:52

Like they were in

48:54

my house not so long ago and they came

48:57

arrested my wife. But yeah,

48:59

here I am working with them, right, And

49:04

I guess it's just another.

49:07

Just unbelievable

49:10

marketing our.

49:10

Story that it's hard to you

49:12

know, it's probably hard for people to

49:14

believe or hard for.

49:16

People to understand. And it's been

49:18

like that for a lot of my life.

49:21

And I'm

49:23

just thankful and grateful for the opportunity that

49:26

I will be able to do that moving forward.

49:28

And it does make me. It

49:31

makes me feel good.

49:32

I feel like I'm finally doing

49:35

something positive, especially with something

49:37

that filled me and has brought

49:39

so much hardship and heartache.

49:41

And now

49:44

here I am, you know, in

49:46

a room for the law enforcement who are eager to

49:48

listen to me, eager to learn. And it's

49:51

talk about coming full circle, right, like, you

49:54

know, I started on one end, and

49:57

now here I am, you know, working with law enforcement

50:00

you know, across the country, around the world, sharing

50:03

I guess all my suffering, right, you

50:06

know, and everything I've learned since I was seven

50:08

years old in joy trafficking. It's

50:12

kind of weird because people are like, wow,

50:14

yes, you're helping the same people

50:17

that are imprisoning in your family, right, But

50:20

no, I don't look at it that way, not

50:23

at all. I

50:26

understand the system

50:28

more than anyone in.

50:31

I don't have carrying out alice.

50:36

All the classes and conferences

50:39

something that you're going to do moving forward.

50:41

Now, yes, it's my

50:43

plan. I'm moving forward. I'm

50:45

doing conferences and classes.

50:46

I have sixteen set dates

50:48

already and I

50:51

will continue working on those classes as much

50:53

as I'm able to get booked right and as

50:57

longest law enforcement officers you

50:59

know here around the country,

51:01

around the world are open to hear

51:03

me that I'm.

51:04

Going to be there.

51:07

I always say that, well for my

51:09

brother, and there's not anyone out there that could

51:13

that has the knowledge and expertise that we

51:16

have. And I

51:18

said this, you know, to law enforcement, like I was

51:20

not made in Mexico.

51:21

I was born in Chicago, made in

51:23

America.

51:24

And

51:26

if I could share this with law enforcement,

51:28

share all the knowledge and the

51:31

expertise that I think I have, and hopefully

51:33

they could take that and use it a positive

51:36

way, I think to me,

51:38

that's like, that's the

51:40

biggest reward.

51:42

I'm one of those persons I believe that anything's

51:45

possible, especially you look.

51:46

At my life and

51:49

where I came from and where I ended up

51:51

at and you know our

51:53

family struggles and to have the opportunity

51:56

that I that I have it it wasn't

51:58

given to me. Charlie.

52:00

I had to create it. I

52:04

had to push for it.

52:04

I had to fight for it, and

52:07

I'll continue to fight for what I believe

52:09

in. And I think that we all have it in us,

52:11

and we just got

52:13

to look for their strength and courage

52:15

to go through with it.

52:19

Alongside the classes, Jay is

52:21

looking for more steady work. He's

52:23

been working on a resume that he showed me,

52:26

and it's hopeful that someone will take

52:28

a chance on him.

52:31

Jay's dedicated to turning his life

52:33

around and writing a new legacy

52:35

for the Flora's name. But it's

52:37

not always that easy when you have

52:39

a criminal record like Jade's that

52:42

follows you through life.

52:44

Half of the seventy eight million

52:46

Americans with the criminal record

52:49

have difficulty finding a job and

52:51

making a living. Nearly a

52:53

third of federal inmates don't

52:55

find work at all after they're released.

52:59

Will someone like Jay or anyone

53:01

with a criminal record get a

53:03

second chance?

53:06

Can you read this?

53:07

Can I read it?

53:08

Ye're sure you read it?

53:09

It's an email there, Okay.

53:14

I recently came across something unusual,

53:17

a tweet from Elon Musk that spoke to

53:19

me drug dealers know more about

53:21

running a business than ninety five percent of

53:23

college professors. So here I

53:25

am today taking a leap of faith and

53:27

sending you my resume. I

53:29

worked on it with intentions of sending it to

53:31

a like minded business person like yourself.

53:34

My goal is to utilize the business skills

53:36

I've acquired in the drug trade and apply these

53:39

street smarts toward doing

53:41

something positive in the corporate world. Although

53:44

I chose the wrong path in life, it's helped

53:46

me shape me into the businessman I am today.

53:50

I am a senior operations executive and

53:52

internationologistic specialist. My

53:55

twin brother and I built a two billion

53:58

dollar drug trafficking

54:00

enterprise nothing We encountered

54:02

far more obstacles than our average corporation,

54:05

but with determination and strong will, I pushed through

54:07

day to day challenges. By focusing on innovative

54:09

solutions, I acquired the skills

54:12

needed to do a thorough risk assessment and quickly

54:14

mitigate any potential losses. Because

54:16

in our business there was less.

54:18

Room for error. Can

54:20

I carry on?

54:21

With twenty plus years of extensive experience,

54:23

I gained the entrepreneurial skills necessary

54:26

to successfully develop, structure, managed,

54:28

nurture, innovate, and grow any business.

54:31

Despite being driven and having a fierce hunger

54:33

for success. I am relatable, willing

54:36

to learn, adapt easily, and have the

54:38

interpersonal skills needed for team building

54:40

and customer relations.

54:41

In any industry.

54:43

Although I was born into the world of drug trafficking, at

54:45

the height of my career, I decided to denounce

54:47

that life and take a road less traveled.

54:50

At the young age of twenty.

54:51

Six, my brother and I gave it all up, voluntarily

54:54

turned ourselves into the authorities, dismantled

54:57

our organization, and soved a fourteen

54:59

year prison sent since I had a federal correctional

55:01

institution in a special WITSEC

55:04

unit.

55:06

Today, I live under a new identity and I'm a

55:08

firm believer in redemption and second chances.

55:10

I know I'm here for a reason and have a bigger

55:12

purpose in life to fulfilm.

55:15

I'm in the.

55:15

Process of rewriting my story and

55:18

with your help, I hope to remove stigmas and

55:20

leave a positive imprint in this world. That's

55:45

the end of our time with the Flores family.

55:48

Thank you for coming on this journey with us,

55:51

and a big thank you to the Flores's

55:53

family for sharing their story.

55:56

Stay tuned for the Flores Twins doctor series

55:58

and scripture series.

56:00

Commons Surviving

56:06

l Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug

56:08

Lord. Season two is hosted

56:10

by Curtis fifty Cent Jackson and

56:13

me Charlie Webster, produced

56:15

by myself and Jackson McLennan, Assistant

56:18

producer and research support by Katy

56:20

Hurtz, Edit and sound design

56:22

by Nico Polella, Theme music

56:25

and original score by Ryan Sorenson.

56:29

It's executive produced by Curtis fifty

56:31

cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster.

56:35

Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a Lionsgate

56:37

Sound and G Unit audio production exclusively

56:41

for iHeart Podcasts