In this engaging episode of the Sweet on Leadership podcast, Tim Sweet interviews Tracy Borreson, an entrepreneur and advocate for authentic leaders. Tracy shares her insights into what it means to be authentic, how to avoid taking servant leadership too far, and how to build team dynamics. She highlights the importance of self-awareness and balancing leadership responsibilities to avoid burnout. If you're an entrepreneur who feels like you're juggling all the things alone, this episode is for you!

The conversation explores the concept of authenticity as being true to oneself and fostering honest communication. The episode emphasizes the need for leaders to prioritize self-care, create a high-performance culture, and encourage team members' involvement in solving problems. Tracy also introduces her upcoming conversation series, "Crazy, Stupid Marketing," where she tackles marketing misconceptions with a panel of experts. Listeners gain valuable insights into authentic leadership, team engagement, and effective marketing strategies.

About Tracy Borreson

Tracy Borreson is an entrepreneur and authenticity advocate known for her commitment to creating awareness around true authenticity. As a mompreneur, Tracy's journey has been driven by her passion for aligning experiences with personal values and unique contributions. Her work focuses on challenging conventional notions of authenticity and encouraging individuals to be honest with themselves and others. Tracy's insights are grounded in her experiences in corporate marketing and leadership roles.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

--

Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: 

• Website
• LinkedIn: Tim Sweet
• Instagram
• Linkedin: Team Work Excellence
   

Contact Tracy Borreson | TLB Coaching & Events: 

• Website: tlbcoaching.com
• Twitter: TBorreson11
• Linkedin: Tracy Borreson

--

Transcript:

Tracy 00:00

It comes down to an awareness like what am I doing? Is it actually having the impact that I'm trying to create? And if the impact is more important than the things that I'm doing, it creates space for me to look at new things I could do that could also serve us. Let yourself be part of the we. What could we do to serve us?

Tim 00:26

I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you my friend, are a leader, and this show is all about and all for you. Welcome to the Sweet on Leadership Podcast. This is episode 15.

Tim 01:01

Welcome back to the Sweet on Leadership Podcast. Today I'm truly thrilled to be speaking to my colleague and friend Tracy Borreson with her passion for authenticity that fuels both professional and personal journeys. Tracy's commitment to lighting personal brands on fire has inspired many, including myself. Today, we're going to be digging deep on the essence of authenticity. So, join us for a conversation that will challenge, encourage and inspire you to consider how you show up. Knowing this will help you make a real connection between authenticity, leadership, trust, and your personal brand. So, stay tuned as this conversation can be the difference in your next professional relationship. Without any further ado, here's my conversation with Tracy. 

Tim 01:45

Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. I'm joined today by my good friend and longtime colleague now because we've been at this we're working on something always for about three years now. Tracy Borreson Tracy, why don't you introduce yourself to the people so they know who you are. I know who you are. But I want you to introduce yourself, please.

Tracy 02:07

Hello, Tim's people. I am Tracy Borreson. And also, if you are Tim's people that you are my people. We are each other's people. What are the important things to know about me? First and foremost, I am a mom, I became an entrepreneur because I wanted to spend more time with my son. So, I identify as a mompreneur very fondly, I am all about authenticity. And so I think there's many places in the world where authenticity is a buzzword, but we don't really know what that means. And if we don't know what it means for us, then things can't be authentic. And so one of my big goals is to try and create some more awareness onto what authenticity actually is, instead of what people want to tell us, it should look like and create our experience, whether that is a career experience, a home experience, a community experience, life experience that is aligned with the things that we want to do, or that we can uniquely contribute, instead of what people tell us we should. And if you've listened to Tim Show, I, I've heard I know, you've all heard his opinion on shoulds, so that's probably why we hang out.

Tim 03:17

Don't should all over yourself. I won't go into it. But there you go. Don't do it. If you're gonna stop listening, stop listening now.

Tracy 03:26

We’re not gonna tell you, what you should do is but–

Tim 03:27

No, we're not. No, no way, Jose. So, before we hit record, here, we were talking about authenticity, we're also talking about servant leadership. And we're talking about how an immature understanding of those terms and a failure to grasp the nuance of both of those terms can get a person into trouble. And so that's, you know, that's really where we're going to focus, our exploration here, at least I'm hoping it's such an important thing to grasp, and they have their place. And they're not negative things, unless like anything else. We don't appreciate how to roll them out and deploy them properly. And so today, we're going to be talking about authenticity. We're going to be getting Tracy's thoughts on that. And we're going to be chewing it around from the perspective of a leader of people, and where servant leadership and authenticity can sometimes form a toxic stew, and how we can make sure that that's not in our bowl, but like anything, it's always good to have a little bit of both. So, when we were gearing up for this, I really loved your point, which I'll ask you to sort of expand on as we get going here, around what happens when a person is overdoing the whole servant leadership thing in your experience.

Tracy 04:46

Well, I mean, simply burnout. So, things and lots of things get burnt out. So, I know we all know the whole put your oxygen mask on before you put someone else's oxygen mask on, and we seem to be able to do that on a plane. When it comes to servant leadership, this most of the time isn't what we are doing. We are prioritizing other people’s oxygen masks first. And it's not bad to care about another person's oxygen mask. 

Tim 05:16

No, not at all. 

Tracy 05:17

It is dangerous to care about everyone else's oxygen mask on top of yours. And so when I see servant leader, what usually I see is that the leader ends up feeling, I'll use a descriptor I have used for myself, previously, that your entire team is living on a beach, an island beach, and they've got all the drinks and all the sunshine, and round that island is a stone wall. And the leader is running around the stone wall, fighting off dragons, stopping the dragons from getting at the people. And the people's experiences this one of like calm, relaxed, productive, right? All the good emotions we associate with work. And the leader's experience is overwhelm, stress, aloneness, right, like they're not part of what they're creating for other people. And that is not sustainable. It's not sustainable from a human perspective, feeling alone, feeling exhausted, feeling like you're the only person putting up the good fight. I'll be honest with you, I lasted eight years, and I thought that was pretty good. Until I was like, No, I can't, because one, my team isn't learning how to fight dragons. And so not really helping them in their life, in their career, by protecting them from all these dragons, they are eventually going to have to experience. So, I'm not really helping them. And I'm not part of the team, I am overly exhausting myself. I go home, and I'm stressed at home because I've been stressed all day, which is not unusual. And this isn't sustainable, right? It's just not sustainable. And I know, we still focus on that narrative of servant leadership, I think we need to work on like a hybrid for talking about like hybrid work environments, we need to talk about a hybrid leadership model where yes, I am here as a leader to care for the people and to take care of the people. And like you said, before we went live, you can't do that I can't give you something if my cup is empty, I have nothing to give. 

Tim 07:36

It's funny because a servant mindset, it's really interesting to me. And it is one of the key areas where I find burnout, as you've said. Where we find poor utilization of capacity. And in many cases, while the leader is running around the wall, fighting off the dragons, and refilling the Mai Thais at the same time. People are disconnected from the work and often bored, and often not really engaged in the work anyway. And it's like this helicopter parenting for leaders, where we go through and we make everything safe to the point where it's no longer an engaging existence. A few episodes back, Richard Young was a guest. And he pointed out that when we look at the Olympic teams, and the rest of it, lives without stress, are not fulfilling, they're not balanced at all, we need a certain amount of creative anxiety, we need a certain amount, even adversity to face if we're going to feel like we're truly part of something. And often leaders relegate themselves to the protector role. But you know, there's that saying that says, you know, don't just stand there, do something. Well, sometimes it's don't just do something, stand there. And so we have to think that every once in a while you need to let people swim. But then that can get us into just as much trouble. And so, you know, when we think about this all-or-nothing leadership relationship, either you're a servant leadership, that would imply that if you're not that you're well, what are you, you're vampiric leadership, or something. The truth is, it's got to be somewhere in between. But what I found is it's always easier for people to serve others and leave themselves underserved. We often don't value ourselves enough that we want to invest in ourselves and do some of the tough stuff for us. We would rather serve others all the time because you know what, they're worth it at a certain point.

Tracy 09:35

This reminds me of a really good friend of mine, Carlson Watkins. I, him and I used to do a show called Authentic Leadership. And I remember talking about this once and it was some advice that he got from his grandmother. And she had asked him, Do you like helping people? And he was like, yes. She was like, Do you think other people like helping people? And he was like, Yeah, what do you think happens when people who like helping people, you don't let them help you? And I, like always remember that because I'm like, this is a thing, I think from that servant leadership perspective, and any of the other kind of self-sabotaging behaviour we might have in other parts of our lives where we just over-serve, we forget that the people around us, like helping people too. And if we don't let them help us, then we're not letting them have full expression of who they are. And I think too, from a leadership perspective, this does come back to this like societal narrative of, I'm supposed to have all the answers like I'm a leader, I'm supposed to have all the answers. And while I don't think most of us logically believe that, like, we know we're human, you can't possibly have all the answers. This is why we have a team, we have all these other narratives. But our way of being is that I am the chief, right? Like it rolls up to me. 

Tim 11:02

I’ve got to be the giver. Yeah.

Tracy 11:04

Yeah. And so this is where it kind of plays into authenticity is we have to be able to notice these things about our experience. Because that type of narrative might not be conscious for you. But it is feeding your experience. It is feeding your experience you create for other people. And until we start to look at like, Oh, why am I doing that? Because it doesn't feel good for me, or does it feel good for me? What about it feels good for me? And, again, from a societal perspective, leaders are so busy, right? We got all the things to do. And I was talking to a lady a few days ago who has 150 direct reports. And I was just like, what, like, it's not even possible, right? It's unrealistic. It's not possible. Even if one person cared that much about serving that many people, you couldn't, it's a bad model. And so we don't look at those things, you would just be like, in the experience, constantly feeling you can't serve all of the people that you want to serve. And that is not an empowered mindset. So, now like, I don't even know what happens, I work overtime, and I do all these things. And then I miss out on my kid's dance recital, and then I'm mad at myself for that. And then your whole experience becomes disempowered. And authenticity is the flip of that. It is about paying attention, so that we can on an ongoing basis, create more empowerment, in our experience, because this is what I would choose. This is how I would do it. And I mean, there's probably somewhere you want to take that, Tim but–

Tim 12:42

No, I think that’s a good one. 

Tracy 12:44

My definition of authenticity just for everybody here because you can find lots of definitions of authenticity is doing or saying what you would do or say when you want to do or say it. So, it's not about doing or saying all the things. It's not about doing or saying things all the time. It's using your experience and trusting yourself enough to say this is what needs to be said right now. And that's what I can do. And sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it has a different impact than your intention. This isn't about getting it right. It is about being honest, in an honest expression. This is how I see the situation. This is how I can contribute in a positive way. And do that, instead of being worried about like, is that right or wrong?

Tim 13:40

That's an important distinction. Because if you're operating on the best information that you've gotten the time, it doesn't mean that that's not going to change, it doesn't mean that your instinct isn't gonna change eventually. 

Tracy 13:50

We grow and we learn. 

Tim 13:51

Yeah, it doesn't mean that it has to either. But, you know, I think that's a beautiful point. People have to have an opportunity to help as well, or you are not the only person who is getting something out of this transaction. I think often that we are not fluent enough in how we like to transact with others, and why we're choosing to transact in a certain way. If we are constantly giving, what are we expecting back? Now is that we're giving down into a team of 150 people or something? What is the thing we're expecting back? Is it like silence and loyalty? And that's what we expect back? Or is it just hard work and productivity? And that's what we expect back? Or is it something along the lines of I'm going to help them be the most effective people they can be in their job and find some purpose in the role and in turn, they're going to help me feel some purpose in what I'm doing. And it doesn't have to be emotional at this point. I think it can be very, very operational. You know, often when we look at how an organization is lined up, we have the strategic levels of an organization, the tactical levels of an organization, the operational levels of an organization, and a really healthy company will be passing things down and sending them back up. You know, so we have strategic goals that the leaders are passing up and passing down. And we have questions and requests for support that come up. And then we have targets that are sent down and we have productivity that sent up. And we get a nice interchange of things flowing all the way up and all the way down in this kind of current. But if a leader decides that they're going to put themselves in the middle of that, and they are going to shelter people, as you said, from the dragons, and those people will still expect Mai Thai then you're going to find yourself in a vacuum. And the moment that reverses, and those people begin to try to provide value into the system, and you're not built to recognize that they're trying to help. But that's not what your processes are lined up to do, then you create a pressure zone, and suddenly they don't feel appreciated. And so having this ability to transact, and to breathe in and out and respirate the value of others is such an important thing to be able to do. And then to be able to do that in a way that makes sense for you. That is an authentic expression of how do I actually like to transact? It's an important step to be able to mature into that way and say, you know, I feel quite comfortable with just how much I'm willing to take on or how much I'm not, and how much I'm willing to let them swim, and how much I'm not. Right. So that we're covering in a lot of ground here. I mean, hey, this is way up in 10,000 feet in an organization. But what are some of the worst expressions of servant leadership that you've seen?

Tracy 16:56

I have one specific scenario where a leader that I worked with was, he was waiting to hear back to hear whether or not his wife had cancer. Well, it’s like pretty big. Right? A pretty big moment. Like, you're probably feeling emotional. And I was like, so we were on the leadership team together. So, he didn't manage me, but like he was a leader of people. I wouldn't listen, watching this guy like slowly stress himself out. Because he thinks he has to be here because he has to be for the team. And what if the team needs him and blah, blah,  blah. And I watched that energy transition into all of the salespeople. Guess how productive sales was that day? It’s just not, right? A little example, I told him, like, why don't you just go home, like, just go home, wait with your wife, like, be together? Because I think what we don't notice is this energy transfer, right? We might have the best intention of being there to support the people. But if our energy doesn't actually match that the message the people get, is not that, right? Now the message that my people get us like, I want to try to protect him because he does so much job protecting us. And then all of a sudden, like, no one's really protecting anybody. I think the biggest problem is that then we're not in this as an us, right? Like, it's just you and me. And you're over there doing your thing battling dragons, and I'm over here, sitting on a beach drinking Mai Thais, and you're not on this path to performance together. We don't have the same understanding that like, yeah, if anybody is dealing with an extreme personal issue, and it's emotional for you, that you should go home and be with the people that you love because that will likely be the best place for you to feel safe. But we don't have that conversation. We try and isolate, insulate the parties from each other. And then we don't have an us. And if we don't have an us, then we are not going anywhere together.

Tim 19:08

Yeah, well, and I think that there's a dark side of that. I love what you're saying. We don't have an us conversation. But it becomes an us whether we like it or not, in a sense, like that stress that they're feeling, that tension that they're feeling is going to come out one way or another. So, even if they're a person that chooses to be stoic, and never ask anything of anybody else, they may not do it verbally, but they're going to require that people walk on eggshells or feel crappy during the day or worry about the other person. Like, it's kind of like the exchange is happening anyway.

Tracy 19:45

And is this the exchange you want, right? Is this the type of energy we want as the team, is this–

Tim 19:52

Or is it a wildfire? Is it? 

Tracy 19:54

One of the things I always think about, like I grew up playing competitive sports and so there is a role that the coach plays. And there's a role that the team plays. And that's not the same role. But we all have to be aligned on where we are going. And we have to go there together. You cannot win at team sports unless you're going there together. And that doesn't mean we're all doing the same thing, it doesn't mean that we all shoot 40 points on a given night, right? It just means that we are all on this path together. And if I want to create a high-performance culture, then we got to be on the path together. And we got to be able to say like, Hey, we got something going on on this team that is not going to allow us to move forward today. And that's okay. Right? But then we have to have that space. That this is like a multi-layered conversation, that like we're just gonna skim the top of and the short conversation. But this is why authenticity also matters. Because if you don't show up as caring about that, from the beginning, and saying the coach is equally as part of the team, as the player, even though he's not on the court doing the thing. Now thinking about like a sales team, or that just because you're not making sales calls, doesn't mean you're not a critical member of the team. And if a critical member of the team is incapable of serving in their capacity today, and isn't confident enough, in their normal contribution to say, I am not capable of performing this role today, which every human experiences, no matter how long you've been a leader, whether you're not a leader, or you're hoping to become a leader, all of us have experienced this, like even if it's just in our mindset, I'm not capable of executing this today. I remember one day in corporate just coming in logging into my computer and looking at my email be like, Nope, I can't deal with this today. And I took a flex day, and I went to the mountains, and it was better for my soul. And I came back the next day, and I was fine. But if we don't have the practice, if we don't have the space, and if we don't have the most importantly, self-awareness, to be able to observe those things about ourselves, then we do, we let that more toxic poison energy just seep out because we're not being intentional about creating something different.

Tim 22:22

But we are going to be creating something regardless.

Tracy 22:25

Oh yes, something is created by default. Just is that what you were hoping for?

Tim 22:30

Yeah, for sure. And so we are taking a rather broad skim at things here. And we're covering a big topic, but I do feel like we're starting to land on, you know, a foothold that people can use to just do a crazy Ivan on their own level of authenticity, or their own choices around leadership. When it comes to my leading authentically, perhaps it is the servant leadership piece.

Tracy 22:54

Okay. Can we talk about that? The important thing about authenticity is, like I said, very much related to your self-awareness. So, it's not that you would necessarily be being inauthentic, if you don't know some of these deeper things about yourself or your deeper, why I might be showing up like this? So, one of the examples I always give is, I was quite a different person. When I was in my corporate life before I was a mom. And then I became a mom and I changed, things about me changed. I learned things, I experienced new things that changed who I was, I'm a learning row kind of person. So I started to evolve very quickly, and I have evolved beyond where I fit with my job anymore. And there is a mindset of like, bringing your like, it's almost like the riding a bicycle thing. Once you can ride a bicycle, you can pretty much always ride a bicycle. And as you've seen some things and you say like, oh my god, I can never unsee that. Right? Like, did you can't go back, you can't evolve that backwards. This is not a thing. So, now we have evolved. And now we look back on our old experience. And our new experience might be that we were being so inauthentic back then. But that's not actually the case, you were being yourself. It was just a less informed version of you. And so there's this important permission, as a leader and as everyone to allow that space for evolution. Because you will change, your employees will change. They'll have personal experiences that will rock their world that will make them not the same anymore. And if we don't create this space for ourselves and for other people to evolve, then we're also like trapping things in this old box.

Tim 24:53

I think that's a really good point. I mean, there's a notion that it is a trap to say that we're heading towards our ideal self. We're heading towards and I use this every once in a while our best version of ourselves and the rest of it right, but I mean– 

Tracy 25:08

I hate the word better because people are like a better version, like better than what?

Tim 25:12

Well, I think it's, I think it's the best you can be in the moment. And it's an acknowledgement that we're not done. I hate the term adulting. That one's always bothered me, because I'm like, Look, I'm 49. And I'm still a child, in so far as I am learning constantly, like I am not done, I will not be done. I don't have a hope of knowing everything. But every day is a learning experience. And every day is brand new. I mean, you're more mature than you were the rest of it.

Tracey 25:42

I like to say be the most you. 

Tim 25:44

Yeah, be the most you.

Tracy 25:45

The best version of you, what is that? The best at some random thing that someone else decided, right? Like, that's not helpful. But if I can, at the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey, I think you know this about me, Tim, but I started measuring a personal KPI. How authentic did I feel today? So, that was measuring like, this is how many interactions I had with people in a business sense. In how many of those did I feel like I was being my authentic self? Or did I feel like I had to impress somebody, or did I feel like I had to prove something? And in making that my personal KPI, I have been able to build a habit of just like paying attention to this. And when I feel like something is inauthentic. One of the most drastic examples I have was teaching my cardio dance class. And at the time, I was going through like pretty legitimate grief episode. And I put on this playlist and for whatever reason, my interpretation of the songs in that moment was just like really sad. They weren't specifically sad songs, but I was interpreting them and I was feeling very sad. And I pasted a smile on my face for the entire dance class. Because, quote, unquote, that's what other people expect of me. Right? And so on my list that was clearly obvious to me that in that moment, I was not being authentic. Now, did I change what I was doing? No, I kept my smile pasted on my face for the entire class. I wasn't ready to like process, why I thought I needed to do that in real time. And this doesn't mean that we can all process all these things in real-time, right? It just means that we notice, I noticed I'm being inauthentic right now what is causing that? I know my cardio dance class, or like some of the most accepting people of me, like, they love me and all the things that I do. So they would be fine. If I just said, like, Hey, this is making me super emotional. Can I send you guys a recording for today? They would have all been fine with that. But I had to process like, Why was I doing that? What was I expecting of myself? And so when we look at these types of things, we get to measure like, is that what I would do? Did I feel good doing that? And then we can go back, we can't change that we did it at the time. It just enables us to do something different next time. And then in so doing, it gives us the capacity to then see that in other people. When do you see when like someone's normally like super loquacious in like team events, but they're, like really quiet today, there might be something going on there. And I feel like people in general just like to have someone else notice. You don't necessarily have to like fix their problem, which I think is another thing leaders tend to try to do. It's not that I don't even know your problem. I don't even need you to share with me what your problem is. But I noticed that like something's going on. And if you need space, I can create that for you. There's like and these are types of things too, right, like, the awareness and like what you would do. I had experiences where I like, do a thing. And then as soon as I do it, I'm like, Nope, that's not what I would do. And then I have to try something different next time. But that's why the concept of the evolution is important. And we continue to evolve closer to the “you-est” version, the “me-est” version of myself, so that I can look at my team on a Zoom meeting, or I can look at my social media provider. I can look at this event I hosted or wherever you're showing up and be like, yeah, that was me. I did that.

Tim 29:34

I think that even the notion though, of evolving towards the “meest” version, where I was going with this is that the notion that we're heading towards something versus we're exactly where we're meant to be, you know, are you the most of yourself right now. And the KPI is funny because I have a similar one that after reading Csikszentmihalyi Flow book, that always has been where I marked down, how did I feel today? Was I balanced between, you know, having enough creative stress and enough control? And for me that comes in that zone where you're like, I'm exactly who I need to be right now. I'm exactly who I am. And sometimes that's a great fit for the situation. And sometimes it's not. Man, I can say whether I want to engage in a certain piece of work or not. But I know that I was in a state of flow in that moment, and for me, it comes across as I know, I'm there. I know what I'm there to provide, very little confidence issues, because I'm worried that I'm faking it. The thing that I would typify the last 10 to 15 years of my work is just that constant, diminishment, you know, that low the lowering and lowering and lowering and lowering of the ratio of your day, where you, it's not about not knowing what you're talking about, because I don't know what I'm saying half the time, I gotta learn. But it's just being really, really comfortable saying, You know what, I am right for this situation. And I'm not at all remorseful about how much I know or don't know, I don't feel any. To me, it's actually an expression of guilt, I guess, is I would say, it's like, I don't feel guilty about being too much or not enough.

Tracy 31:23

Not being a brain surgeon. 

Tim 31:26

Yeah, it's like, I feel pretty rigged for this situation right here on Earth. And I'm more than happy to be in my own skin, in my boots, where I'm at, and I feel fulfilled. And I think that that often I talk about fluency, right? And it's, do you understand how you show up in different situations? Do you understand as a team, what genius you're there to provide? And then you can appreciate the genius of others. Do you understand your work style? And then you can appreciate the work style of others. Do you understand the strengths, your strengths, and then you can appreciate the strengths of others? Do you understand who you are? And are you comfortable in your skin? And if so, can you be comfortable then with others not being you and not being cast in your image? Or a threat because they're different? Right? And so that authenticity, to me, is a place of comfort. Like, it's like, I just felt better than not, right? Hey, my shininess ratios pretty, pretty good today.

Tracy 32:31

I like, I recently ran an in-person event for the first time since COVID. And it's like, it was July 2023. Some people extrapolate that based on when you're listening to it is a long time. And I did all the planning, I did all my prep, I know what I care about, I had a very specific attention, right? And I was like, I've done what I can do, that didn't stop me from staying up until like 10 to 10 o'clock the night before trying to prepare stuff. And then once it happened, and it was like happening, and everybody was like just being exactly what I hoped it would be. I had this moment of like, I did that. And like, yes, there were the other people contributed to it. Absolutely. Other people contributed to it, I always have five for people contributing, because I can't make that happen by myself. And I've created the space for that all of that connection would not have happened if I didn't do that. And so there is something to be proud of. And there's something that I am like uniquely good at. And it's not about being cocky, or any of those things I know a lot of people have fear of that as well. I remember saying once to a client of mine, you're pretty much as far as you possibly be from cocky. So if you just be yourself, there's no way you can be cocky. Like it's not a thing. Also, that doesn't mean that someone's not going to interpret you that way. But you can’t control other people's thoughts and experiences. And so like, it's okay to take that moment and just feel I've been doing just like three deep breaths every time I feel that and just be like, just breathe this into my being.

Tim 34:09

Man, that really raised something for me when you just said that you can't control how other people feel about you. I really love the statement that you know, it's none of your business, what other people think about you, as people are like, Well, yeah, it is. Is it your business what you think about them? Is it their business what you think about them? If they asked you would you tell them the truth? It's like, let it go. It's your business what do you think about yourself for the most part and even then you gotta be careful, you don't agree with yourself all the time because you could be a bad read. But the the notion that you're going to disappoint people, I think there's a really interesting, dynamic when you get into teams and large groups, and you get around some people that are that are pretty comfortable with the skin they're in and people who aren’t and I see this all the time. I see people resent the people who are comfortable, quite a bit. And also starting to, you know, there's a lot of aspersions cast, that that person just doesn't get it, but that person doesn't understand. And it's fine to feel fear, and it's fine to feel, you know, destabilized every once in a while. But I remember as a parent reading about the norming behaviour that kids go through when one child is feeling a lot of anxiety or anger or something, they will try to normalize the rest of the house, so everybody else feels so way too, right? And I think we can put that on to that feeling of comfort and confidence and authenticity, that if somebody is feeling really confident and settled with who they are, and they don't feel terribly great need to, not without kindness, but to alter how they're feeling for someone else. Um, that can be offensive to other people. It can be like, Oh, you're being awfully arrogant, or you're not sensing how other people are feeling? Well, no, I am. But I'm also quite fine with my choice to be who I'm going to be in this moment, right?

Tracy 36:11

Yeah, and I think there's one, I was gonna say, like, I've experienced that from my parents, not just kids. I'm sure people have experienced it in the work environment as well. What I have found is that while people might not understand that confident perspective, what it does do is it still brings the vibe back to like a more like central level, right? So if things are starting to get high, and someone can be like, No, I won't let you take me there. Like, here's my place, here's how I'm balancing my energy. And you can go there, I'm not saying you can't go there. I'm just saying, I'm not going there on the emotional level with you. And if you want to go there, maybe we can create space for that to happen. I've been in work environments where like, literally, it was the best-case scenario to just take a 10-minute cry break. Okay, we've screwed this up big time, we're all really upset about it, let's just give ourselves 10 minutes in private to like, let it out. And then we can come back and try and figure out what we're going to do about it. Like this isn't anybody's fault. And that doesn't mean you're not feeling the emotions, right? So let's just like create that space, and come back to it. Even if people don't appreciate it or don't understand it or it makes them angry, it still neutralizes the tension. And I've just like–

Tim 37:34

Just take a time out. 

Tracy 37:36

–so many times myself. And I think too, it's important to look at like, a lot of times we treat a lot as if it's urgent, right? Like we need to fix this right now. We do this right now. And if I learned this in parenting, if I can take two minutes to settle Nicholas, my son down, so he'll put his shoes on. That's way better than fighting with him for 20 minutes about him not wanting to put his shoes on. So, yeah, it doesn't mean I'm not spending any time, but it means I'm intentionally bringing things back.

Tim 38:11

It's called transition time. I'm gonna transition you from a point of play to putting on your shoes. What keeps coming back to my mind is that and just to round off the where we started. When we think about the servant leader perspective, it's I have to provide this for everyone else. And those are the Mai Thais, and maybe we need to let the dragon's roar, stuck behind the wall, pour ourselves a drink?

Tracy 38:41

Well, I mean, this is the thing. This is the thing I think about like one, I'm serving a whole bunch of Mai Thais. Do my people even like Mai Thais? I don't know, two, what if I have someone here who loves making Mai Thais and would love to step up and make all the Mai Thais? And I could drink one? That would be great. What if there was some like genius here who could make like a defense shield that would actually make it unnecessary for any of us to fight dragons? But I haven't asked them because I'm trying to keep them safe. Like, I'm actually not serving anyone. So, I do think that at the end of the day, this comes down to an awareness like what am I doing? Why am I doing it? Is it actually having the impact that I'm trying to create? And if the impact is more important than the things that I'm doing, it creates space for me to look at new things I could do that could also serve me, like serve us, like let yourself be part of the we. What could we do to serve us and bring that to the team because people want to help you. So let them help you. But yeah, it starts with self-awareness.

Tim 39:56

Okay, I'm thinking about a couple of things here, I think when I'm going through my notes here and thinking about some of the big words that are standing out for me. Transparency, and honesty, and practice self-awareness, all of these elements are really important that this is a skill that people have to learn. It's not that hard to find it. But it's also easy for us to lose it. And so every once in a while, you know, and I think that maybe this is a good action point for people out of this to take a check-in and say, how much time out of the day do I feel like I truly was being me that I really felt like I was in flow with who I needed to be in the moment. And then to get beyond the feeling that it's not all about them. And it's not all about me. But we've got to create this we in this us in there, and that by everybody finding an expression of themselves, then we can find what that looks like collaboratively, then we can say, Okay, what is the us look like? Maybe perhaps this is what we can talk about, you know, follow-up conversation. There's authenticity on the individual level, but there's also authenticity on the team level. Here's the brand of the individual and the individuals. But then it's what do we choose to be together? And is that in alignment with who all of us want to be individually? Right, so it becomes that, not a rulebook, but a focal point where we can we can start to concentrate things. As we're finishing up here, Tracy, if people want to find you, why don't you just tell us where they can find you? And perhaps what are you most excited about right now? What are you working on?

Tracy 41:39

So find me on LinkedIn, you can mostly find me on LinkedIn, Tracy Borreson, my little tagline thing is togetherness based on uniqueness. So if you see that, that's me, connect with me. I love to connect with people, it feels like the following is weird. Don't stop me just like meet me. More comfortable for me. Something I'm excited about right now. So, I'm actually in September, I'm going to be launching a new conversation series is like one of my favorite things to do. So, it was big thinking like this in a panel. So, even more ideas. And it's called Crazy, Stupid Marketing. So my background is corporate marketing. And what I saw a lot of what I continue to see today, and maybe even worse now, because it's so easy for quote-unquote, marketing gurus to give you marketing tips on the internet. There's a lot of stuff that people are telling you to do that is actually 100%, the opposite of what we should do. It doesn't make sense at all. So I got a panel of X corporate marketers, who will be joining me in the conversation to help bring some of these things to light so we can be a little bit more authentic in our marketing efforts, and a little bit less attached to what the marketing gurus tell us we should do. So stay tuned for that.

Tim 43:00

Cool. Well, I'll make sure that all the show notes are updated both so people can find you. And as that program rolls out, what's the label again, stupid marketing? 

Tracy 43:10

Crazy, Stupid Marketing. 

Tim 43:12

Okay, Crazy, Stupid Marketing. As the date gets closer, we'll make sure we update the show notes so that people can find in there if they're listening late. All right, Tracy, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. And I can't wait till we do it again. This is some big thinking here. And it's great to just sit and play with you. So, thank you for showing up and being so you and helping we be so us. 

Tracy 43:37

Yes, this was so us. It was an us episode.

Tim 43:40

That's right. Okay, we'll talk to you soon. All the best. Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes. If like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership. Please give us a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders. And you can spread the word to by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening. And be sure to tune in in two weeks' time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading.