In this powerful episode, Tim talks with Debbie Potts of DAP VA Limited about her inspiring story of resilience. Debbie describes how she kept her dreams alive by keeping her anchor or north star in view at all times, even while adapting to remote work during the pandemic, battling ovarian cancer (twice!), and navigating the chaos of moving to a new country. Her tenacity, vulnerability, and never-ending positivity will both inspire and motivate any listener who needs encouragement to pursue their dreams without letting obstacles get in the way or define them. 

Debbie’s story shows listeners how powerful you can be when you advocate for yourself, discover your goals, and trust your instincts. Tim shares the main lessons he’s learned from working directly with Debbie and following her achievements, including how to keep your vision clear, break down impossible tasks into manageable pieces, and keep your momentum going against the odds. You’ll learn about the importance of positivity and a little bit of Swedish coffee culture along the way. 

About Debbie Potts | Founder of DAP VA Limited

Debbie Potts is the entrepreneurial force behind DAP VA Limited, where she stands as an Online Business Manager and Executive Virtual Assistant. With a rich tapestry of experiences spanning over three decades in the corporate legal sector and educational management, 

Debbie's multifaceted expertise is matched only by her grounded, go-the-extra-mile ethos and her passion for the Swedish concept of 'fika'—taking a break to savour coffee and company.

Debbie's philosophy centers around the notion that exceptional business support should be within reach for every entrepreneur and business owner. She extends this support across the globe, offering services that include website redesign, social media enhancement with a particular knack for leveraging Pinterest for Business, and comprehensive executive assistance—all tailored to help her clients reclaim precious time.

Beyond her professional endeavours, Debbie dedicates her energy to advocating for two cancer charities. As a survivor herself, she generously shares her journey to uplift others and advance the mission of these organizations, which provide crucial support to those touched by cancer.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Working Genius - Patrick Lencioni
• VA Mastery Course - Amanda Johnson
• Macmillan Cancer Support
• Debbie’s Story on The Royal Marsden Cancer Charity Website
• BBC Interview Highlighting Challenges of Cancer Patients During the Cost of Living Crisis
• Individualism vs. Teamwork with Rita Ernst Part 1 (Apple)
• Individualism vs. Teamwork with Rita Ernst Part 2 (Apple)
• Individualism vs. Teamwork with Rita Ernst Part 1 (Spotify)
• Individualism vs. Teamwork with Rita Ernst Part 2 (Spotify)

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Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: 

• Website
• LinkedIn: Tim Sweet
• Instagram
• Linkedin: Team Work Excellence

Contact Debbie Potts | DAP VA: 

• Website
• Linkedin: DAPVA

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Transcipt:

Debbie 00:01

We need to believe that we are stronger than we think. We are more resilient than we think. And we absolutely can achieve. Yes. It's hard as you said, yes, the trajectory to the dream is tough. And I was pushed down that mountain 1000 times that I got up, I kept going. So it isn't so much about failing, because I did. But it's how do you pick yourself up after failing?

Tim 00:31

I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you my friend, or a leader, and this show is all about an all for you. Welcome to our 20th episode, this is the Sweet on Leadership podcast.

Tim 01:04

Hey, everybody, welcome back to Sweet on Leadership. Thank you very much for joining me, I am absolutely over the moon to be talking and bringing to you one of the most amazing spirits that I have encountered on this planet. She is somebody that I have a great deal of love for. I never knew when we met how much I would jive with you and how much I would feel an immediate connection with you. And I really just can't wait for everybody else to experience a little bit of Debbie because it's the vitamin D and never knew you needed. And that's coming at you today. So welcome Debbie Potts, to this podcast. And thank you so much for taking the time to join me and sharing your amazing story.

Debbie 01:49

You're welcome, Tim. And thank you for inviting me. This is amazing. And yeah, I jive with you, too. So it's, it's mutual. And I have a lot of love and respect for you, too. So great. Let's let's do this.

Tim 02:04

Oh, yeah. So Debbie, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself, let people know what you're all about. And then I've got some really big curiosities as we talk about your journey. And so yeah, please let everybody know who you are.

Debbie 02:19

Oh, sure. My name is Debbie Potts, as Tim said, and I am the director of a virtual assistant business, which is a business based in the United Kingdom. And registered in the United Kingdom. I serve my clients in all sorts of ways I provide services, to help them run their businesses, I do social media for them, I've fixed their websites, I redo their websites. Basically, I turn my hand to anything. I really plus myself as not only a business owner, but also a survivor and a conqueror of two-time ovarian cancer. So for me, that's kind of my biggest achievement. It doesn't define me, but it is something that has made me who I am today, and I'm so happy to join you.

Tim 03:07

I appreciate it. And in case you're wondering, dear listener, Debbie helps me all the time, and she's brought an entirely new level of control, and he's around my own business. But that's not why we're here. Today, we're not to talk about the power of an amazing assistant, although that is something we're going to get into. And I don't even think of it as an assistant, I think of a power of an amazing collaborator who rounds off your edges and supplements, your leadership style or your business in ways that you can't even imagine. Okay, that's part of it. But let's talk about the journey I'd love you to, to lead us into the story of The Red House. And I think for all of the leaders that are listening, this is an amazing parable around or amazing example of what happens when you set a vision and you achieve it and how it can have what I see from the outside being a profound effect on a person's trajectory. Notwithstanding Yeah, notwithstanding the the battles that you've been through, and I think that's part of the story. But the metaphor of the red house to me is just so inspiring. So that's what I'm really hoping that we can get into today. So could you give us a little bit of a background in terms of what the red house is, take us up to the lead-up of what was happening where you first had this dream.

Debbie 04:36

Okay, so basically my dream about living in a red house in the middle of the countryside near the forest and near the sea, started way back decades ago, really, when I first came to Sweden, and we took a trip into the countryside and I saw all these little red houses dotted around everywhere and the colour of these red houses is specific only to Sweden and it's called “Falu Röd” (Falu Red). So I had a dream to live in a follow red house. So there so at the time, Dan and I, my partner were living and working in London. And I thought, How on earth am I going to make this happen? I work in a school, I don't work remotely, I have to go to school every day. I can't, you know, work in London and live in a red house. It's just not going to work. What should I do? It was a lot, a lot of knockbacks. At first, I applied to many positions here in Stockholm thinking, Okay, I'll just change my job. But of course, not speaking the language was a big sort of negative. So every job that I applied for was a “no.”

Tim 05:49

Just to back us up. When did you have this vision? What year was that? 

Debbie 05:54

Oh, my gosh, that would have been 2009. 

Tim 05:55

2009?

Debbie 06:02

Yes. The way I sort of drifted was after my visit to Sweden, I went back home and I printed a picture, any picture Tim of any red house, and I stuck it on the wall above my computer. And obviously, I would look at this, whenever I came to sit at my computer, I would see this. And it would just keep sort of the cogs turning. Okay, so how do I turn that picture into a reality? First, was job so that I could work in the country that I want to live. Second was, while I need money, houses don't fall from trees? Yeah, I've got to have some money. And of course, I'm working with my partner, Dan, on this dream. So you know, we decided to for now do sort of a feasibility study and look at where could we possibly live? Because a dream can only become reality to me when I physically see the possibility rather than think it or see it virtually.

Tim 07:08

In the late 2000s, you start to think of this. And you when you put these pictures out behind your computer as a bit of a vision board, you're approaching it practically you're not approaching it with a distant dream, you're bringing it close saying, ‘Where could this exist?’ The default being Sweden, obviously.

Debbie 07:28

Absolutely. And I did have that dream aspect as well. I mean, I would go to sleep dreaming about The Red House, I would talk about it at work with my colleagues, I would talk about it with my friends and family. So and that's all I was obsessed by. Everybody kind of knew, ah, what does Debbie want? She wants to live in a red house that's been known for years.

Tim 07:49

So the red house was this picture, this avatar for something. What did the Red House represent to you? 

Debbie 07:56

Oh my gosh, it represented freedom, it represented achievements. It represented living life on my terms. And obviously, I love nature, as you do. And it just represented, you know, being able to be close to nature and, you know, completely do a 180 turnaround of my life. You know, I lived in a big city, London, full of people full of traffic full of everything. And I've now completely reversed that. And you know, I've told you about this before in our conversations, there's, you know, this little village I live in, there’s 10 plots, but only eight houses. And that's us. 

Tim 08:40

And eight families that are collectively a community. When you think about that, then the red house was such a clear delineation, was such a clear, step off what you knew. It there was a polar opposite from that perspective. I do remember you sharing with me at one point, the red house was just a representation, and you'd identified all of those outcomes you were looking for. That could have manifested in a bunch of different ways. Right? You could have found nature somewhere else, you could have found peace somewhere else.

Debbi 09:12

Yea, but it also was my love of Sweden anyway. And because I love the country, and because, you know, so it was a whole mind shift change, because not only did I have the picture of the red house above my computer, but I also enrolled myself in London to have Swedish lessons. So then I could start learning the language. Okay, so sort of ticking off all the things that I needed to do for myself to be able to achieve this dream. 

Tim 09:42

So you were putting in the small things in place.

Debbie 09:45

All the little bits and pieces. Yes. 

Tim 09:49

Okay. So, late 2000. You're coming up with these plans. You've got this vision, you're starting to tick off the small items. What happened then what was the next thing that happened?

Debbie 09:59

It just became an impossible dream. If I'm honest with you, if I'm genuinely honest. Yeah, prior to the pandemic, it became an impossible dream. 

Tim 10:09

It was never gonna come close. 

Debbie 10:10

No, I could not see myself finding a job that would, you know, give me enough money to achieve this dream, nor could I see myself finding a job in Sweden and then achieving the dream.

Tim 10:23

The clarity around it started to take you farther away from it. The reality starting to pose, you know, real concrete frictions with your current life. Okay, all right, so, so you went through these exercises, then you faced this hero's journey of now the challenge was starting to appear as impassible.

Debbie 10:46

Absolutely. 

Tim 10:47

This is pre-pandemic. And pre-battle with ovarian cancer. 

Debbie 10:54

Pre-battle. I was healthy, Debbie, you know, working living in London enjoying life. And what I decided to do was I thought, okay, I'm not going to give it up totally. Because it's, you know, when you really want something, and you just are not prepared to kind of compromise or give it up. I thought, okay, these battles are here for now. Let me just plod along with my work. And you know, think about how do I overcome this obstacle of living in London, but I really need to be in Sweden? And there's a lot of little things you've got to do. I had to research, how do I get a Swedish visa? How do I you know, legally, all of these other little things? How do I get a bank account? How do I do this? So I thought, let's just do those little things. I started a spreadsheet and, I’m a spreadsheet queen, and honest, I had all the things I needed to achieve with a box, you know, tick off, okay, that done and then notes on the side that tell me, okay, so for a visa, you need to do this da-da-da-da-da. And I just sort of left that slide and kept going. I also subscribed to a property selling website marketing site, and they would just, yeah, I’d just look every morning. That's the first thing I did. I didn't check my work emails, I didn't do anything, I would just spend 15 minutes looking to see what's on the market. 

Tim 12:18

So, even though part of your conscience was telling you that this is not gonna, let's say the logical part of your brain is fighting you, saying this is not logical use that okay, broke it down to the little tasks, you know, you could action. And I mean, for any of you who've worked with me on Working Genius, which is Patrick Lencioni’s new piece. This is very clearly the genius of tenacity, right? It's pulling things into manageable chunks that we then are going to accomplish,

Debbie 12:50

But also not giving up Tim. Because lots of people give up. And they just say okay, it's not gonna happen and they shelve it.

Tim 12:58

And where you disaggregated it down to its constituent parts that could start, instead of going for that great big island off in the distance. You swam to this sandbar, and then this sandbar, and then this sandbar, and slowly the island is coming a little closer and a little closer. 

Debbie 13:17

That’s right, yeah. And in English, the saying, you know, I had all my ducks in a row. So I spent nearly five years putting all these little ducks in a row, you know, finding out okay, how, you know, what do I do to get a bank account? Okay, if we lived in this area, how far away is it from the airport? You know, in case I've got to travel back to London or anywhere, for that matter. How do we get broadband or internet connection to a house that's in the middle of the forest? What do I do?

Tim 13:46

I don't want to get into this too far. Because I think that's fodder for another conversation. But this is so you. I mean, this is what you do for me all the time. When I'm feeling, when I'm feeling overwhelmed. And I've got too many things on the goal. You're like, stop, Break it down. Let's get this into into the easiest thing you can do next, what's just the one easiest step you can take? Which is... 

Debbie 14:11

Can I just add a little bit more, just so that we can get to the Red House now.

Tim 14:16

You got it, go for it.  

Debbie 14:17

So far, all of this happened and I sort of like okay, I'll just do these bits and find out so that I'm totally prepared. If and when they're… not even if, when the time comes. So fast forward to 2020. 2020 Okay, it's 20th of March 2020. The whole of the UK shut down completely. And I was like, oh, now I have to work from home for my school. This is great for me who absolutely loves tech, and absolutely loves working from home. Now my red house popped up front and center because it's, I soon clocked on that, oh my god, if I can work from home for my school, I can work from anywhere. This is it, I got my answer. It's, it's that's it, I got my answer. So in the middle of the pandemic, I decided, okay, I had a conversation with my executive head. And I said to her, Would you be happy? They knew I go to Sweden, you know, six, seven times a year, would you be happy for me to work remotely, from Sweden, for the schools? I supported four schools at the time. Of course, she said, “No, we need you here, Debbie physically.” So that's a no. So I thought, okay, what do I do then to make this remote working dream become reality? Since we're in a pandemic, people have now understood that you can work remotely globally, as you and I do. Yeah. And I decided, what job can I do that will allow me to be able to do this? And I researched, I Googled, I watched so many podcasts, or listened to so many podcasts, watched videos. And finally, yeah, why don't you be a virtual assistant on your own terms? So on the fourth of August 2020, during the pandemic, I started my own business.

Tim 16:24

You had to step away from your… 

Debbie 16:27

No, I did it simultaneously, because I needed the income. But I started because I don't know if my business is going to be a success. Of course, I'm going to put everything into it. But I thought, okay, I can do it on a part-time basis. I was lucky enough to have fantastic training, I found this amazing VA Mastery Course, with this lady called Amanda Johnson. I absolutely adore her. 

Tim 16:48

We can put a link to that.

Debbie 16:50

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I did her course. And that's what changed everything for me completely. It then made the steps to the Red House, achievable. And I knew it's gonna happen, there was absolutely not one iota of doubt in my mind that this was going to happen in the next two years.

Tim 17:11

Okay, so 2020, lockdown happens, suddenly we have this new reality of working remotely, and that opens a door that you're ready to step through.

Debbie 17:21

100% I stepped through it. My business did take off really well, which was great. 

Tim 17:30

Right, I remember that’s when we met. 

Debbie 17:32

Yes, something had to give because I couldn't continue with my full-time school job, and run DAP VA limited. So I had to, in February of 2021, I then handed in my notice, and the period of notice I had to give was six months. So, I said to them, You know what, don't worry, I'll give you until the end of this academic year ie July 2021. And then I'm gone. Not only will I work full-time on my business, but I'll also be leaving the country to move to Sweden. So up pops another spreadsheet, because now I have to do all the removal costs and all that sort of you know, get the van or the lorry come and take all what will we be taking them since we are left Europe and and you know, Brexit happened. So we classed as a third country to Sweden, so I have to pay import charges, all of these things. Whereas before you could just literally drive your whole house to Sweden, and that would not be a problem. 

Tim 18:34

So what's amazing about this to me is you made this decision, the move starts the unhooking from life, as it was, begins. Although I mean, you still do have deep connection to London. Your Hill was getting steeper, not more shallow. I mean,

Debbie 18:52

Yeah. But it looks achievable to me. I don't know. 

Tim 18:55

Oh absolutely. It was achievable. What I mean is that the difficulty level went up. That didn't stop you. It wasn't as easy as it would have been a few years prior. But that didn't stop Debbie 

Debbie 19:09

That’s true. This point actually, is spot on Tim, because a few years prior, I wouldn't need a visa nor would I have needed to pay all those 1000s of pounds in imports.

Tim 19:19

You had momentum at this point. And that inertia was carrying you up that change curve. That wasn't the end of your struggles. 

Debbie 19:29

No, not at all. So obviously, you know, the beginning or the first half, I'd say of 2021 I was working so hard with two jobs and being a school business manager is a stressful full-on job even though my contract was term time only. So I thought okay, you know, I will have vacation time or holiday time and I will work on my business during those times and I'll make it work somehow, Tim, I always make it work. So it was full of excitement, anticipation. If I could literally, you know, see and touch the dream. I'd set up house viewings for Dan and I to go, and you know, view all these beautiful houses. The next visit we had to Sweden. So it became it started becoming, you know, when you can just taste something and you just have a little taste. It's so nice. You want to eat the whole thing. That's what was happening. So we did all these house viewings, and we listed the our favorites and blah, blah, went back to the UK, started winding down, packed up all our stuff in boxes that we wanted to bring to Sweden. Found a company that was great that would come and pick it off from door to door. And literally, one day before we were due to fly to Sweden, or the move, I'd applied for my visa at this stage as well. And they said, Look, you can come to Sweden anyway, even if it's isn't quite granted yet. Because, you know, you can stay on the 90-day rule that the UK nationals are allowed to stay in Sweden for 90 days per year. And your visa should come during that time. So it all was good. So you can come now, I was like, okay, great. Everything's great. One day, Tim, the fourth of August 2021. We had our British Airways flights booked on, on Thursday, the fifth of August, we were going to meet the removal van in Stockholm on Friday, the sixth of August. But on the fourth, I should just back up a week or so I went for what I thought was a routine scan and had the scan and left it and it usually takes about 10 days before you find out the results. I got a call from my GP on the fourth of August, saying the morning of, no sorry, she found me on the Monday. So that was the fourth was a Wednesday. She phoned me on the Monday and said, Debbie, I don't think you'll be going to Sweden. And I said now of course I'm going everything's sorted. We flying on Thursday. She said no, we have your scan and it's you have cancer basically. So I'm like “What? No,” she goes just to be sure. Let me do another scan. So I said okay, can you do it before Wednesday? Because I'm flying on Thursday. She said I really don't think you're flying. But yes, we'll see you on Wednesday. So still, I didn't believe it. Tim, I just thought nah, it’s a mistake. And you know, these scans are misread sometimes. But anyway, I'll go on. I'll go on Wednesday. Yeah, so off, I went alone. Had a more detailed scan. First I had just a pelvic ultrasound. And then I said I can't wait for the results 10 days because I'm flying tomorrow. So can you just tell me what's on your screen? And he said, I remember the radiologist saying, see these dark clouds over here. And on both sides here. That's your left ovary. That's your right ovary, these dark clouds covering both ovaries. That's cancer. See these other dark clouds? That's your upper abdomen? Yep. See all how they floating looks like a skyline? That's cancer. You have cancer. Yeah, we don't know the staging yet. Because we've got to do more details. And I was like, oh, shock. I'm alone. What do I do? So I asked them, what would happen next? They said, Okay, we do an MRI, which is more detailed. And that will definitively tell us what's going on. So I asked if they could fit me in that afternoon. And they did. It was about 2:30. I had my scan on the fourth of August. After the MRI. straightaway. Yeah. Confirmed. So obviously I was a little bit. Yeah, I was in shock. I was numb. I was, it when I'm telling you this. Now it doesn't even feel like it's me I'm talking about, but it is me, though. I called Dan. I actually didn't even call him first. I called Dan's best friend. And his name is Anders. And I said, Look, I'm probably going to die. So I need you to take care of them for me. So can you do that? And at this point, I was crying. He couldn't even hear me. And I'm you know, so I just said, just promise me that you'll do this for me because, you know. It's important. Yeah, of course, whatever you do, blah, blah, blah. Then I phoned Dan. I told him, he came over straightaway to the hospital, along with my two daughters. And yeah, we just were a little bit in shock. The doctor came, spoke to us all. And it was at that point I knew well, we're not going to Sweden. So we went home and we played a board game and ate sandwiches. That's the first thing we did, which ,I don't like, I'll tell you why. 

Tim 24:57

That Red House that was so close. You could almost taste it.

Debbie 25:00

I was on my way. 

Tim 25:02

And you wanted more suddenly was suddenly like it was right there. And suddenly, it's just now thrust farther and farther away. It's not about the house. It's just that, you know, as the as a backdrop to your cancer journey, that you weren't going to Sweden. 

Debbie 25:16

Not at this time.

Tim 25:18

No, but you went home and you ate sandwiches.

Debbie 25:20

And played a board game. God knows why.

Tim 25:22

Played a board game. What happened next from now you're redoing all the math. This point was,

Debbie 25:31

No, I didn't even. Now I thought about life and death. So now my, my whole...

Tim 24:33

Your spreadsheet changed, now it had two columns. 

Debbie 25:36

I didn't even look at that for about a year. Actually.

Tim 25:42

If you know what I mean, is if you may have met one, it would have been pretty stark it would have been like, yeah, that's it. 

Debbie 25:48

Yea, so I just decided to, again, because I'm such a practical organized person. Okay, now death is coming. Let's get all my ducks in a row before I die. You know, so I need to do this, this, this, this and this. Okay, what should I do? Well, I didn't have a will, believe it or not. Okay, I need to get a well done. And even then, kind of, you know, Dan would say, Look, that's not priority. Right now, we need to see what can we do about this disease, we have an appointment in two weeks' time, everything in the UK is two-week wait under our national health system. And I said, I'm sorry, I can't sit here or lie here, knowing I have ovarian cancer and wait two weeks to hear how they can help me. Anybody at all who's had any kind of diagnosis of a terminal illness, it does not just cancer loads. You can't wait, Tim, two weeks and just stew over all the sooner you know, and the most dangerous thing is you go to Google and you start Googling. And Google is the worst thing you can do when you've been diagnosed, because the results it gives are not your results. They could be someone else's. And you know, you could be reading into it in the wrong way, which I did. I Googled how long can people with ovarian cancer live? And they, you know, maximum two years is what I was reading, and I'm like, Oh my God, I've got two years to live. No, I can't.

Tim 27:21

So you were literally Doom scrolling? Well, like without, we use the term Doom scrolling, like lightly now. But you were.

Debbie 27:29

Yea, I was. 

Tim 27:30

You were building up the doom.

Debbie 27:31

I decided to try and speed up things again, make it happen, you know, using my power. And I just woke up one morning, and after two days, I think from diagnosis, so this would have been a Saturday morning. I woke up at 5am. And I said, Dan, I'm getting dressed. I'm going to the hospital. He goes, baby, it's 5am Where are you going? I said, I'm just gonna sit there until I can speak to someone. I'm not waiting two weeks, I really can't. And that's exactly what I did. I woke up. He came with me. We'd sold our car as well by this time. So we because we were moving to Sweden, so we didn't have a car, got an Uber to the hospital.

Tim 28:09

And all your stuff is in a truck as well. Right? 

Debbie 28:10

Well, it’s in Sweden. It’s already made the journey. We had to get Anders and other friends to come and offload for us. It was a nightmare, an absolute nightmare. And so at the hospital, I just waited. I went in there six o'clock, as soon as the oncology department opened, I just there was sort of seating just outside. And I sat there and waited for a staff member that came through. I'm like, I need to speak to someone right now.

Tim 28:41

Right? So you were advocating for yourself, you're advocating for knowledge for not being left in the lurch. And saying

Debbie 28:48

I'm also knowing, I need to know, you know, is this? You know, I know that there are so many advances in, you know, the treatment of cancer today, it’s not as it was 20 or 30 years ago. It’s far advanced. So I just want to know, will I live? Or will I die? Can you put a timeline on it? Or can you not? What's the deal? And so yeah, I did actually happen to speak to a really nice oncologist who looked at all my sort of notes and my scan results and everything. And he said, and this is where it got even worse. It's it. This looks so complicated. We actually can't treat you in this hospital. So we need to refer you to one of my colleagues. Her name is Angela. And she's, you know, the hospital just 20 minutes down the road. It's one of the best cancer research hospitals, certainly in the country and certainly in the world. And you'll be in good, good hands. I’m making you an appointment for Monday. So yeah, go go and see. No, no, he saw kind of the distress and then sometimes I'm Tim, you have to go with your feelings. You have to trust what you feel like doing rather than keep second-guessing yourself. 

Tim 30:08

Yeah, you weren't on anybody else's schedule. You weren't in anyone else’s rules. 

Debbie 30:12

Yeah, I was on my own. Yeah. So that's another good sort of characteristic to develop because, you know best and you know how things should be. So yeah, I will just fast forward. I went to see Angela, Dan and I, it was our first time ever stepping over the threshold of a cancer hospital. Surprisingly, it was a lovely place. Even today, it's still my happy place. And saw Angela, she did more tests looked at me and said, Debbie, I'm so happy to tell you that we have developed a curative care plan for you and that word curative. I will never forget the emotion. The rush of emotion, our shoulders, both Dan and I, our shoulders dropped. We just breathed, exhaled a deep breath out. We both started crying. But smiling at the same time, because now I knew I'm not gonna die. So now I was...

Tim 31:22

Knew, not hoped. 

Debbie 31:26

Knew. 100% knew. Yeah, she said curative? While I was talking to Dr. Angela. George. I googled her just to see. And I saw that wow, this woman is, she's a kick-ass boss lady. I mean, she is like, head of genomics head of research. She's fabulous. She's known the world over. So when I saw her credential, I almost then and I still joke with her today I say, Oh my God, you're a goddess. She's from New Zealand. And I always say to her, I didn't see her for two weeks one time, and because she was on vacation, and when she got back, I was like, Oh my god. Dr. Jordan, I missed you. Where have you been? Oh, I went home to New Zealand. Ah, great. What did you do there? You know, my mom had a long list of chores for me to do. What? Does your mother not know who you are? You are Dr. Angela? Can I, I need to speak to your mom. You should be home eating grapes with somebody standing fanning you and you know caring to your every need and whim. And she's like Debbie, I'm a human being just like you are.

Tim 32:27

It's funny when I wouldn't give to hear Dr. Angela's perspective and perception of you through all of this. Man, that would be would be something to hear. 

Debbie 32:38

Yeah, I have heard it. Yeah, that's for another time. Okay. Anyway, so once she said that, and we knew both Dan and I, almost in unison, said, Okay, what should we do? Tell us what to do, and we will do it. And that was our mindset going forwards, even till today. It's tell us what to do. We'll do it. And of course, by they then you know, just to speed it up to them. Otherwise, we'll be here forever. She put a you know, six months chemo, followed by surgery, followed by monitoring tests. And basically, that's the plan. Yeah. And, you know, had all sorts of ups and downs during that time had nearly had my right leg amputated. I reacted badly to my first chemo drug. Paclitaxel, I'll never forget that I'm allergic to Paclitaxel. And on a scale of one to five, one being the not-so-bad. I'm a five. So basically, I passed out and woke up three hours or four hours later, with all these things attached my beautiful red dress split in half, because time was of the essence. So they have no time to, oh, let's not spoil her dress. And, you know, I'm here. I'm a fighter. I'm here. I'm resilient.

Tim 33:54

You gave yourself over to the process. That process was a curative process. That process was one more thing that you needed to do… 

Debbie 33:59

To achieve my red house.

Tim 34:05

To achieve this red house.

Debbie 34:09

So I had to also have some psychotherapy whilst I was being treated for cancer because, yeah, it's an aggressive cancer that I have and it's also an aggressive treatment for it. So, during my, one of my therapy sessions, I remember my therapist said, Debbie, you need an anchor, you need something to hold on to throughout this process. And we call it an anchor and that's going to anchor you and keep you steady. And so what is your anchor, and immediately I blurted out, The Red House. That's my anchor. I'm just going to live and fight this battle for the Red House. Of course you do it for your, you know, my beautiful partner, Dan, for my children, and for the grandson I didn't yet have at that time. So you know, I'm doing it for all of them. But I'm also doing it for the Red House.

Tim 35:02

And the Red House is so much more than just a building. I mean, it is an expression of everything that you were heading towards, what an optimum life looked like for you. I mean, often when we're doing, we're doing career, when I'm coaching, and we're looking at somebody's career, I ask them the question, “What is what is this all for? What's your future look like?” And when it comes to a job, I'll say, “What is the best day of the last year you're ever going to work look like?”, or the last year of your career going to look like, and then that's our North Star, that's the one that we're going towards. And this Red House was your North Star.

Debbie 35:42

It was indeed, it was indeed. But also it was place, because both Dan and I are very sociable people. We are gregarious we are. We love friends and family. And we said, we're not going to get a little red house that just fits us too. We're going to get a red house where everybody can come our friends, our family. It's just a place of community and socializing, and fun and laughing and enjoyment and love and sitting around the fight. It's all of that, Tim. So the red house is that red house, but it is a bigger vision than just the red house.

Tim 36:22

Let's maybe use this then to talk about and, and like not to gloss over this. You have still, you still had to battle. You've still had other aspects when it comes to the cancer journey. You are thankfully healthy now. But it has come at no small amount of effort, right? At the same time, you are now in the dream. You are, the dream is now reality. So give us a sense of what were the surprises? What were the surprises, the little things that this house has meant to you, that this new life has meant to you, that achieving this goal has meant to you? And also, perhaps the things that you never thought were going to happen that suddenly are realities. What does life look like now in the dream? 

Debbie 37:06

Oh, it’s wonderful. I can't… I actually have another dream because I can't live without a dream. We always have to have a dream. But that's something else. I'll tell you at the end. Remember to ask me what my dream is now. It's wonderful. I really cannot stress enough how as human beings, we need to believe that we are stronger than we think we are more resilient than we think. And we absolutely can achieve. Yes, it's hard, as you said, Yes. You know, the trajectory to the dream is tough. And you know, I was pushed down that mountain 1000 times, Tim. But I got up. And I kept going. So it isn't so much about failing, because I did. But it's how do you pick yourself up after failing? Do you hold on to that North Star, that anchor? What do you do? And that's exactly what I did. I held on and held on. And you know, I made sure I shared my dream with everybody. I came in contact with Dr. Georgia. And when I had my second, my recurrence, my cancer came back after five months of being clear. And she knew I had this dream. And she said, Debbie, don't get the stress because we can we can treat this by surgery. So look at this as a big boulder in you, going along the road to your dream, all of a sudden a boulder comes and gets in your way. What do you do? Just go around it and then continue. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to go around the bouider and put you back on your road. And yeah, again, you know, that was so close, Tim. We came back in June of 2022. After being given the all-clear. We were here for days, the surgeon in London phoned and said I'm sorry, we your scan you had two weeks ago showed two masses one, seven and a half centimetres, one three and a half centimetres. Do you need to come back? For days, Tim? Yeah, I went back and then in February of this year, it all came to be I didn't wait for the all-clear. I made an arrangement with my hospital in London that, you know, I'll come back every three months for treatment and tests and scans. So in February, we looked at 13 houses in two days. And it's a big area that we had to cover. Everything is like 30-40 minutes apart. And we looked at thirteen. I actually got sick from looking at so many, all the houses and then went back to London and packed up the few things that we could now bring with us. By this time we bought another car so we packed the car up, drove to Sweden from London with our stuff, put an offer into the house that we saw, which was this one. It was accepted by the lovely Gustaf, who is the developer, and he built this house with his own hands. And when we finally met, we shared our story with him. He started crying, we started crying. He goes, as I was building this house, I was hoping that it would go to someone with love and who saw it for what it was. And he goes...

Tim 40:19

He had no idea. 

Debbie 40:21

Yea, he had no idea it was for me or for us. He even said I was going to paint it white because I'd ordered the red paint. And then I thought,  no, all the other houses are white, I need to paint this one white. So you phoned the company where he ordered the paint from and said, look, can I change from red to white? And the company said, sorry, no, we've already mixed your paint for you. It's coming. So he said oh, okay, don't worry, I'll just paint it red. How about that?

Tim 40:52

Well, it's, you know, we can talk about serendipity for sure. But I'm sure Gustaf, he had no idea of when he was looking for somebody that would love that house, just how much meaning it would represent.

Debbie 41:04

Oh, he said that. And we actually invited him back after we'd moved in and, you know, changed things. That garden was developed. And it's now furnished, and it's got our stamp on it. And he came over, and again, he was filled with tears. And he's like, this is exactly what I had in mind that you would do in this room when I built it. This is how I, you know, our open plan kitchen and living room has a Fika area. Remember Fika? Very important. He actually said I want this to be the heart. And where we all gather? And for sure, Tim, everything happens in the Fika area.

Tim 41:41

Yea, and Fika, for those that don't know, what's the word?

Debbie 41:44

Fika is the art of Swedish coffee, drinking, where you go, you take time to be in the moment with friends, colleagues, family, whoever, no electronics, nothing, you just are present, and enjoy each other over a cup of coffee or tea, and a bun or a sweet treat.

Tim 42:03

I think I think that's really interesting to think I see you living always in two zones, you were very clear about what your vision was. But you didn't step too far away from the moment. Because you were always working. You were always working in the moment you worked. Not in somebody's two-week timeframe. But you said no, I gotta go advocate for myself, and you did. And then and then everything for you has been a balance between things being far away and having that Northstar, but then doing what makes immediate sense in order to leverage the situation that's in front of you.

Debbie 42:39

But I think it all circles back to what you said in the very beginning. You know, the Red House signifies this dream or vision or lifestyle that I wanted to have. And without that clear, definitive dream or vision, I don't feel I could have achieved it. So if I've said, Well, I could live in a red house, maybe a green one would do. Oh, I don't mind if it's close to the city or, you know, maybe it can just be in a field. I'm so sort of wishy-washy.

Tim 43:11

But but in this case, you did not compromise. 

Debbie 43:15

No, it was a definitive kind of vision where it had to be. And the picture said it all I wish I knew whose house that was, but it was, you know, close to water with the forest. There, right there and clearly in the countryside. And that is that's how I wanted to live. Yeah,

Tim 43:33

Yea, it will be a question whether or not that was predetermined? Or if that is something that you made the most likely most statistically possible. 

Debbie 43:44

I think it's a bit of both. Yeah, I think it's a bit of both because I believe this is my path. And you know, throughout it, I didn't sort of say I'm the cancer person, even though I introduced myself as that. But I always do put a caveat that cancer has never defined me, I still worked on DAP VA limited during my chemotherapy, I'm in the hospital. And, you know, I still did all the things I could do until I couldn't. And when I couldn't I took an eight month break because I had to focus on my recovery and beating this disease. But as soon as I was able to, I came back, and here I am. I've been working ever since.

Tim 44:24

And it's a life without compromise in many ways, is what I see, like there's of course you make small adjustments. But would you say that through all this, your ability to yes, both flow with things and move around the boulders as you need to. That's a skill that you've obviously developed but also, you're not living by anybody else's rules. Would you say that anything's changed from you and just that level of sort of determination of?

Debbie 44:53

I’ve gained a resilience I never thought I had, you know before a pre-cancer, you kind of or even pre-DAP VA limited, you kind of hear the word resilience, people talk about being resilient. And it kind of sort of doesn't settle. But since I've now had to prove resilience, I feel that now I totally understand what that word means. I also understand what self-discovery means. Because never did I look inward, I would always just do things and never sort of think, how am I doing this? And what's my driver? What's the goal? I would just do it, you know. And so, this whole becoming a business owner, having this dream, having cancer has taught me and showed me that yeah, I'm sorry to use the cliche, but we are so much stronger than we think.

Tim 45:51

You have to be careful not to believe what you think. That's so yeah.

Debbie 45:55

Yea, and I kept sort of feeding my brain with positive things. You know, funny thing is Tim, this house before we even moved, or even had viewed it, in London, I bought all the soft furnishings, for a four-bedroom house. And, you know, Dan was like, You're crazy. You don't even know it's gonna have three bedrooms or four. But I said, No, I know, I'm just buying this room, this room, this room, I bought enough stuff for two bathrooms. It's like, we don't know if we can have two bathrooms, baby. I said, no, I know.

Tim 46:30

Not everybody is going to always understand. And I think for those of the people that are listening, if this story doesn't give them some perspective, in terms of just how, you know, if you think your life is difficult, take a look, take a look at what Debbie's overcome and adopt some of her principles. And I mean, what I'm what I've jotted down here, as we've been talking is that North Star, that vision is, among the first the ability to break things down into into manageable chunks, the ability to then build a momentum. That's just incredible. And I remember back in the day, we used to say, you know, put yourself between the immovable object and the irresistible force, right? And then, you know, you know, Your situation may change and you're ready to be resilient for what unknowns are going to come up or what things how the environment or how the situation is going to change. You need to flow with that. 

Debbie 47:27

And I think it's also the power of positivity, you know, I read her book at the time that I was actually I was staying in hospital. And you know, it's just that positivity, Tim, I know, it sounds like nothing, but oh, my God, the power of positivity is a force that you cannot reckon with. I'm sorry, it's staying positive. That's also another thing I learned. You know, I did consider myself a positive person before cancer, pre-cancer, but I didn't realize that positivity actually can change your life.

Tim 48:06

Well, I'm for those of you that are interested. Read has been on the show a couple of times, or we've got two episodes with read on it. We'll put links to those in the shownotes. 

Debbie 48:12

Yeah, definitely. 

Tim 48:15

Your story about how you're able to advocate for yourself is one of the things that I love most about that is just when you are willing to stand up for yourself, how many people will then stand up with you. Whereas if you're willing, if you're just going to relegate yourself to you know, being part of some predetermined process, people will keep moving the way they were moving anyway. And I think back to Dolly Parton, she had this saying if you don't like the road, you're on pave a new one. In your story, I just so many times you found yourself on a road more rocky than perhaps you had anticipated.

Debbie 48:56

Yea, so true. Dolly's words. 

Tim 48:59

Yea, as we wrap up here, let's, let's talk a little bit about some of the amazing things that are happening now. Your story has inspired many other people.

Debbie 49:08

I'm filled with gratitude, really, Tim. You know, every day I wake up, I'm alive, I'm healthy, I can do all the things that I could be for my cancer, despite having body parts missing, ie, I have a stoma, that colostomy bag on my left side. And I can still do everything. So I'm really grateful. So then I just kind of thought, now I'm on my feet. I'm back at work. You know, I'm enjoying working with my clients, who I love and adore all of you, all of them. And how can I give back? How do we, what do I do? What should I do? I can't just sit here and bask in the glory of the grid house. So I decided to put myself in the most uncomfortable position ever, which is speaking in public. And so I share my story wherever I'm invited. In order to you know, spread awareness that we can achieve that getting a terminal or a serious illness diagnosis perhaps is the better term is not the end of the road. There is light at the end of the tunnel. And you know, just maybe adjusting our mindset a little because you do have to contend with dealing with your illness as well. But you know, within that, try your hardest to see the positive side of these things. For example, having Chloe, that's the name of my stoma. Chloe, the colostomy, gives me priority boarding on any flight. So wow, I love, I love Chloe and airport security. I just go present myself at the fast track with my little badge. And there I go on the fast track. I never queue.

Tim 50:55

There you go, so many silver linings.

Debbie 50:58

They are so yeah, yeah, absolutely. And also, I enjoy speaking, one on one like this. Very nervous about speaking in public. And so yesterday, I was invited to speak for a charity that actually helped us, Dan and I in 2021, when we were down and out, it's called the Macmillan Cancer Charity, based in the UK. I love them to death. Well, no, I love them not to death, but I love them. And so I love them to live. And they said, would you come and share your story as our away day so that, you know, all the people who support and donate and work in this charity understand, and just are reminded of why they do the job they do. It's because of people like me, they literally gave me life. They supported me when I was in my darkest moments in so many ways, Tim. And so I thought yeah, of course I'll do it even though my stomach was doing somersaults the whole time. And I felt like throwing up and pay off with me lunch and I couldn't eat. But I just thought now I've got to do this. And you know, there was not a dry eye in the room. And I didn't do it to make them cry. I said to them, no, I'm I'm emotional. Because I'm so grateful to have this platform, not only to share, but also to actually thank you, each and every single one of you, how much you, you know, helped us to thank you for, you turned our lives around. And so, you know what you do, please do not minimize it. You actually do change lives. 

Tim 52:38

Again, it's a story for another time, but we can talk about, you've shared with me how influential you're being locally around local government and other areas. You're exercising your advocacy 

Debbie 52:45

My a voice. 

Tim 52:49

Yeah, yeah, your voice without making it too cute. If you weren't operating from this dream achieved, in a sense, you're in the red house. Now if you, if you didn't have this new these set of of traumatic and like, this amazing, but very treacherous journey that you've been on. You're seeing things with new eyes. If you if that hadn't happened? Would you have the voice you have today?

Debbie 53:19

No, absolutely not. I'd be on the treadmill that I had been on for 34 years. Same old, same old, nothing new.

Tim 53:26

So I'm gonna ask you two things. One is, let people know where they can connect with you. 

Debbie 53:35

Absolutely. 

Tim 53:36

Where would you like them to connect with you? And the second thing is, if you had a wish for people that are listening to this today, what would that wish be? Okay, so where can people find you?

Debbie 53:44

where can people find you so people can find me? I'm on LinkedIn. So it's just Google Debbie Potts. My company is DAP VA Limited. They can also just Google DAP VA Limited.

Tim 53:58

We'll put those in the show notes.

Debbie 53:59

Perfect. So yeah, I think my one wish for everybody who's listening and facing any kind of challenge, uncertainty, you know, indecisive. Don't give up; find your anchor, find your north star and work towards it. Because you'll get there.

Tim 54:22

And every step towards that star is going to be a discovery about who we really are.

Debbie 54:29

Absolutely. But it also takes you that one step closer. No matter what it takes you step, it takes you closer, so please don't give up whoever you are, wherever you are.

Tim 54:40

Keep coming back to that even when it seems that it's pulled away from you a little further, you know?

Debbie 54:45

Yeah, totally. Oh, you got it, Tim, you understand.

Tim 54:49

Right. Well, Debbie, love you so much. And thank you for spending time with me. 

Debbie 54:55

That's okay. 

Tim 54:56

Okay. Well,

Debbie 54:57

You’re so welcome. Thank you very much

Tim 54:58

Till next time. Buh-bye 

Debbie 55:00

Bye. 

Tim 55:01

There's so much more we could talk about. We didn't even get to talk about your next dream. 

Debbie 55:07

Well, Do you want to know what it is, Tim? 

Tim 55:09

Yea, I do? 

Debbie 55:10

It's a Yamarin, six and a half foot, boat, speed boat. It has a sundeck at the back enough for six to seven people. It's got a little table so we can have our dinner in the middle of the archipelago in the ocean. 

Tim 55:20

There we go. 

Debbie 55:22

It's got to cover so that Dan and I can go and camp out in the archipelago should we wish. So I have a picture of a boat. So I'm working towards it. I'm close. I'm very close. The deadline or the timeline is March 2024 to purchase it. If not before. And then they will put it in the water. So I've been to speak to them. I've spoken I'm a regular visitor, I go sort of every two weeks, and they all know my name. They go ideally, you ready to buy the boat? I go no, no, no, not yet. But I have a question. So they're gonna put it in the water for us in April next year, already and good to go. And then we're going to use it throughout the summer season. And then in September, October, they're going to pick it up and store it for us. Ready for the following year. And they're going to clean it services, fix it and we don't even have to worry about any of that. So in order to achieve that dream, I first need a spot to moor my boat during the summer season. So, before I can buy the boat, because it's pointless having a boat and got nowhere to put it. During the summer season. I had to go and find the spot and of course all the spots are taken because we live close to the water. And you know, everybody has the boats in the summer. So everyone was like no, the spot is a two-year waiting list. Now I can't wait to use that spot. There's no hardly anybody changes. You know what I did? I went old school Tim. I typed on a piece of A4 paper. And we invite everybody new to the area. We live in (area of Sweden) and we're looking for a spot to moor boats. If anyone knows of anybody who's giving up this spot and will please remember this number. Old guy rang the number. And he says, oh, yeah, I know a spot over, maybe it's a five-minute drive from us that okay? And we go absolutely. We got a spot. 

Tim 57:24

There you go. 

Debbie 57:26

Got a spot.

Tim 57:29

So Debbie's next dream is the boat. The boat, the blue boat. What color is it? 

Debbie 57:38

It's white. It's called a Yamarin. I'll send you a picture after this.

Tim 57:42

Sounds great. All right. Can't wait to hear about Debbie's next adventure soon.

Tim 57:53

Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes. If, like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership. Please give us positive rating and review on Apple podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders. And you can spread the word to by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening. And be sure to tune in in two weeks time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading