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BBC Sounds, music, radio,

1:17

podcasts. Hello, this

1:19

is Felix White and thank you for

1:21

having me on this brief introduction to

1:23

this week's tailenders. It's a very special

1:26

one this week. You're

1:28

about to hear tailenders host

1:30

the Cowdrey lecture from Lords. I'm not making

1:32

up when I say that. That is a

1:34

thing that actually happened. I've

1:36

checked it several times since and I didn't dream

1:38

it. For the

1:40

loosely cricket based of you out

1:43

there, the Cowdrey lecture is a

1:45

highly esteemed event every year

1:47

that the MCC and the Cowdrey family put on

1:49

in which the greats

1:51

of the game come and give talks about

1:53

the spirit of cricket for them. So

1:56

recently it's been Stephen Fry, Mike Brilly, Kumar

1:58

Sangakara. Brian Lara,

2:01

the list goes on. This year,

2:03

Mark Nicholas, the president who you all

2:05

know we love, and the

2:07

Calgary family, asked us to do it,

2:10

which is a wild privilege and it

2:12

was a beautiful thing. And

2:14

I'll just leave you now to listen to

2:16

it. Stuart Broad joins us, Isha Gour joins

2:19

us, of course Jimmy is there to talk

2:21

all things swing and scene bowling. Before

2:24

I go, Matt Chintin-Dulcah doesn't join

2:26

us on the actual show, but he

2:28

is in the front row, if

2:30

you're worried. Give me a little thumbs up, as

2:33

if I'm his child at an activity play. So keep

2:35

that in mind when you listen. So

2:37

without further ado, the first voice you are

2:39

going to hear is Mark Nicholas, introducing

2:41

us onto the stage. One

2:44

thing we were going to do with Mark

2:46

was all go through our favourite commentary lines

2:49

that he has delivered over the years, which

2:51

we forgot to do. So for the benefit

2:54

of Tate and for the record, the

2:56

best one must be Simon Jones,

2:58

bowls, whoever it is, Michael Clarke.

3:01

That is very good for swing

3:03

work for your occur again. Here's

3:05

Mark, go well. Thank

3:11

you, thank you, thank

3:13

you for that lovely warm reception.

3:15

Thank you for turning out in

3:17

extraordinary numbers. This evening

3:19

has happened simply because of one

3:21

man, who had a rather

3:24

genius idea. His surname is Cowdery, that

3:26

gave him a lot of collateral in

3:28

this argument. He's Charlie Cowdery, Jeremy's

3:30

son, one of two sons with

3:32

Rob, and Charlie said, how about

3:35

we just change the evening a bit?

3:38

And Jeremy, the father said, that's a great

3:40

idea, give it a different angle, a little

3:43

leg up, after 23 fabulous

3:45

years of great speakers. We can still

3:47

have the great speakers, but let's change

3:49

the angle a bit. And

3:51

he came up with the idea of the Tailender

3:53

Show. He'd been to see the Tailenders live, he'd

3:55

listened to the podcast, and he talked

3:57

to us, and he persuaded us that it was

3:59

It was the way to go and that's why

4:02

we're here tonight because of Charlie Cowdery wherever you

4:04

may be. Charlie, take a bow. Colin

4:10

Cowdery was a remarkable man.

4:13

Lord Cowdery of Tumbridge christened MCC

4:15

which had to mean something and

4:17

of course did. A man that

4:19

went on to become one of

4:21

the greatest players that England's ever

4:23

had. One of the most elegant

4:25

batsmen, gifted slipcatchers, brilliant England captain,

4:27

fabulous man who conceived the spirit

4:29

of cricket and then Ted Dexter

4:31

joined him and together they

4:33

put together this initiative that became the

4:35

preamble to the Lord. Now, tail

4:38

enders, tail enders started in 2017,

4:40

commissioned for seven episodes for the

4:42

Ashes but the BBC liked what

4:44

they saw so much that they

4:46

greenlit a regular show which has

4:49

had 22 million downloads. They

4:53

travelled the country with a live show

4:55

as well as their podcast, the Hammersmith

4:57

Apollo, the London Palladium and the Palace

4:59

Theatre in Manchester are amongst the venues

5:02

that they have conquered. They're

5:05

great, great guys, great guys.

5:08

You know them. Greg James, broadcaster, famous

5:10

on Radio One, author, fabulous

5:13

guy, cricket lover, good player,

5:17

fabulous ambassador for the Lord's terminus, Felix White,

5:19

guitarist of the indie band, the Maccabees which

5:21

will mean something to some of you and

5:23

not so much to others. Wrote

5:27

a great book actually, it was a great

5:30

book. It's always summer somewhere and it covers

5:32

the subject of cricket, music and

5:34

loss so areas that we are

5:36

all touched by, a tremendous read.

5:39

And the third tail ender, Jimmy Anderson,

5:42

just the 700 test match wickets. That's

5:44

all, that's all. And

5:53

then we have two guests of honour who are on

5:55

the picture to my right but I won't introduce because

5:57

the tail enders team will do that just

5:59

a little bit. little later so please

6:01

give a raucous welcome to

6:03

our super guests tonight. Three

6:05

wonderful cricket people Felix White,

6:07

Greg James and Jimmy

6:10

Anderson! Mark

6:16

Nicholas everybody. Mark Nicholas, let's change.

6:19

Come on. Thank

6:23

you to Mark, he will be back a

6:25

bit later to talk about the two centuries he

6:27

has scored at Lord's. Good

6:32

century, fair? Yeah, ball by ball

6:34

commentary by Mark on Mark. That's what's going

6:36

to happen later. Hello

6:39

and welcome to the 2024 Cowdery Lecture. Hello

6:43

and thank you for having us on the 2024 Cowdery Lecture. It

6:47

is a complete pleasure to be asked to

6:49

bring the Tailender Show to the

6:52

home of cricket. As Mark said, I'm

6:54

Greg James, that's Felix White and this

6:56

is England's greatest ever bowler, Jimmy Anderson.

6:59

Bye, Jim. Bye,

7:03

Jimmy. Our

7:07

loosely cricket based podcast was born out of

7:10

a deep love for the game and is

7:12

a celebration of it and of

7:14

all the work that we do, this

7:16

is by far our favourite thing. True

7:18

for me? Well, maybe

7:20

you two. I quite like playing at Lord's. Yeah,

7:24

okay, for us two it's our favourite thing

7:27

we've ever done. As

7:29

Mark said, we started in 2017 for

7:31

the men's ashes and we are still going and

7:33

tonight we are following in the footsteps of some

7:36

of the greats, Benno, Lara,

7:38

Sangakara, both of them,

7:40

Fry, Desmond, Tushu. Oh,

7:43

and we understand what a privilege it is

7:45

to be here and we are so grateful

7:47

that the Cowdery family, particularly Charlie, I mean

7:50

let's be honest, Charlie. Yeah, where

7:52

is Charlie? Yeah, where is Charlie? I

7:54

was really interested in the choice of the

7:56

word that Mark Nicholas used. Persuaded.

8:01

So, now what's a video on there Charlie? Okay,

8:04

any complaints? Table 31. If

8:07

you don't like it. But over

8:09

the next hour we'll be discussing why we love

8:11

this game, how we got into it, how we

8:14

can protect it and make it as big and

8:16

as brilliant as we know it can be and

8:18

make it for absolutely everybody. At

8:20

the start of every episode we like to

8:22

do a little song. Right, yes. We have

8:24

a theme tune to tell them that was

8:26

suggested by a listener and Felix. Yeah.

8:28

I teach everyone how to do it. I've got

8:31

anxiety about this. I don't know how many tell-enders

8:33

are in the house tonight. Are there listeners of

8:35

tell-enders in here tonight? I know what we do.

8:37

Okay, I've got less anxiety about it. It's

8:40

the home-ish crowd. Right, so what we do is we

8:42

do tell-enders live. We've got a full band and we

8:44

sing tell-enders as loud as we can with

8:46

a full rock band. I've got to say

8:48

that's not going to happen tonight. So

8:51

I'm going to very gently play it. And

8:54

if you know the words to this song. Well, they weren't because

8:56

we just came up with new ones. Oh,

8:58

yeah. Thank

9:28

you. Thank you

9:30

very much. I told you it would work. Nice

9:32

lyrics. I told you it would work. Mark

9:35

mentioned it. I want to mention it

9:37

again because we can't mention it enough.

9:39

Jimmy, you have just done something that

9:41

No Fast Bolder has ever done or

9:43

ever will do. 700

9:47

wickets. Come on, Jim. And it's a special

9:49

night for many, many reasons. But

9:51

very special because this is where it all began

9:53

21 years ago. I

9:58

can't believe it. Not

10:00

the line, not the line,

10:02

perfect result. First

10:05

cricket for James Anderson. That

10:09

is done. What

10:16

a start for Kyle That

10:31

is a start for James Anderson.

10:36

That is a start for James Anderson. James

10:39

Anderson it is for England. Top of off they

10:41

say. Hang on,

10:43

he's on a roll here. Surely

10:46

the greatest team and swim bowler in the thought,

11:01

feelings, being back here, watching

11:03

that, any emotion, any

11:05

emotion. Would

11:13

you like to explain this moment? This

11:15

is the moment where Richard Thompson, the

11:17

head of English cricket, is congratulating him

11:19

on the greatest feat in bowling history.

11:26

We got a message on the WhatsApp

11:28

group saying the two Richards want

11:31

to have a meeting in the bar or whatever

11:33

it was. The

11:36

chief exec and chairman of the ECB in there.

11:40

I've turned up in my sliders as you

11:42

can see, joggers, cap on

11:44

back to front and then I realise

11:46

it two seconds into his chat that

11:49

it's about me and I hate people talking about me. It's

11:52

going to be a tough hour guys. He

11:56

was behind me as well, he was so awkward. Inside

12:00

I am delighted So

12:05

Just lost the series. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

12:08

was gonna make actually quickly is that and did

12:10

you feel that anyway? It was difficult like taking

12:12

that personal applaud It's because it has ended up

12:14

for one and there's a lot of pomp going

12:17

around this thing and see at a moment like

12:19

Celebrating not the outcome but the process did it

12:21

feel like maybe just didn't want to like revel

12:23

in that feeling of like I've just done this

12:28

Thank you very much, I'm Anderson No,

12:30

I think like I play cricket

12:32

because You know, it's a

12:35

team sport. I love winning games of cricket. That's

12:37

why I started playing when I was a kid That's

12:39

why I still play now and the records and stuff

12:42

They're great when they come along but I don't spend

12:44

too much time thinking about them I want to try

12:46

and win games of cricket for England and

12:49

sat there for one loss and You

12:51

know, it's a lovely gesture. But for me

12:54

at the minute It's not sort of something that I'm

12:56

that Bothers about you'd have preferred to

12:58

won the series and not taking a 700 with it.

13:00

So we say yeah I'm sure when I when

13:02

I when I finish and then sit down at the

13:04

end of my career, I'll be delighted with what But

13:09

right now, you know, I just I want

13:11

to concentrate on as I said trying to win games

13:13

of cricket Okay, so let's now

13:15

you've mentioned you've mentioned for one. That's our opportunity

13:18

to talk about it. I think so

13:20

How have you processed it and I mean

13:23

it seems like you're all having a nice time

13:25

despite it being a Fore

13:27

one loss. So how have you all dealt

13:29

with that? And what's the what's the last

13:31

couple of weeks been like? Well, it's a

13:33

hard place to tour India's notoriously difficult Not

13:36

many teams go there and win and we went there

13:38

with a fairly inexperienced squad you look at

13:40

the two spinners I think that's probably a

13:43

massive positive for us Tom Hartley and

13:45

show a Bashir coming Performing at the

13:47

way they did was was incredible having

13:50

not played much first-class cricket before so

13:52

I think that Experience will stand them in good

13:54

stead going forward But then you

13:57

put them against India spinners who've

13:59

played many many tests, got hundreds

14:01

of wickets, so much experience,

14:03

especially in those conditions and it you know it's

14:05

always going to be difficult competing against that. We

14:07

had really good moments in the series, obviously won

14:09

the first one which I didn't play in or

14:11

play in the next four which we got hammered

14:15

in. But I

14:17

think there was so many moments where we were

14:20

close to getting on top and

14:22

then so that the last test perfect example I think

14:24

it was the last test we were 100 for one

14:26

just before lunch then Ollie Polk got out, 100 for

14:29

two at lunch, could have been

14:31

a bit better and then we we

14:33

fell away and didn't quite get the runs or the

14:36

total we wanted in that first thing. I think there

14:38

were just moments like that where India because

14:40

of their experience you can just pound from

14:42

moments like that whereas we were

14:45

maybe slightly greener to

14:47

those sort of situations and I'm sure it'll you

14:49

know there's so many young guys in that team that

14:51

will benefit from that experience

14:53

in the future. One really interesting part of

14:55

that series Jim actually is that you went

14:57

into a test and we played a few

14:59

with one sole Seema which hasn't been done

15:01

before. I had to tell Enders maybe a

15:03

week or so ago where we were asking

15:05

Jimmy of all the Jimmy Anderson's he's like

15:07

David Bode has been some of the reinventions

15:09

of him which Jimmy Anderson would he like

15:11

to be and he said the Jimmy Anderson

15:13

now and I think he genuinely meant it

15:15

even though most sports people would say that

15:17

and it felt like Jim I don't know

15:19

if he's like could you have

15:22

done that 15 years ago and being this

15:24

up one Seema like it felt like all the

15:26

tricks and evolutions and the different things you got

15:28

like meant that you could do that and hold

15:30

up an end. Yeah I don't think

15:32

I could have done it 15 years ago I think I've got the

15:34

skills to be able to do it now and

15:37

also I loved it because you don't have that I mean

15:39

I don't want to speak badly of anyone

15:41

who might be coming up on stage when

15:45

you've got someone yapping in your ear oh

15:47

my god have you tried

15:49

this have you tried that let me bowl mate

15:54

so that was nice you know you're out there on your

15:56

own you feel that responsibility

15:59

as well You

16:01

feel that responsibility that you're the sole seamess, you've

16:03

got to try and... When you do get a

16:05

chance to bowl, try and make an

16:07

impact. And I feel like that's something that I've

16:09

really thrived on. But yeah, I love playing in

16:12

India because it's so like... So

16:14

different to anywhere else you play in the world. And

16:16

they differ from ground to ground as well. So you've

16:18

got to really think on your feet throughout all the

16:20

games. You said that it was your

16:23

favourite tour of India. Which is odd

16:26

thing considering the result of the series. And

16:28

you've won out there before as well. Yeah,

16:30

and how does that... What do you

16:32

mean by that? I didn't get the s***. So...

16:36

Lovely. What was the mark of a

16:38

great night? So profound. Remember, when

16:41

you wake up tomorrow, I absolutely find you to remember

16:43

that. That came from Jimmy Anderson. Sorry, no. I

16:46

just feel like we... Enjoy

16:48

the lamb. What,

16:53

thinking about Jimmy Anderson? No. Sorry,

16:56

I feel like we... We've

17:00

really like threw ourselves into it

17:02

and tried to... Try to

17:05

play the same sort of cricket we've played

17:07

over the last couple of years. We're trying

17:09

to be entertaining, we're trying to be positive

17:12

all the time. And it's just obviously

17:14

that bit more difficult to do in India. But

17:17

I thought, you know, we never... Any

17:19

stage got down, we never thought, oh, we're getting hammered

17:21

here. We always thought we had a chance. Even

17:24

when we're 2-1 down, we thought we can still turn it

17:26

round and win the series. Obviously 3-1

17:28

down, we thought, sod this. No,

17:32

I didn't. I just feel like

17:34

we are still making strides as a

17:36

team and we've got much more to

17:38

show in the next coming...

17:40

The coming years. A couple of technical things for

17:43

me. Firstly, like from a fan-ish standpoint, and what

17:45

I thought was incredible about this series is two

17:48

greats going through fast bowlers, Brumrah and

17:50

Jimmy going at it and making fast bowling

17:52

work but in completely different ways, like Jasprit,

17:55

bowling in from your occurs at pace, reversing

17:57

it and you at the other side of

17:59

your... and moving it off the scene,

18:01

getting it to work in those different places. But

18:03

what was really interesting to us is that we

18:06

like, mine Jimmy for information on tell-enders. And

18:08

then, having done the Australia series last summer,

18:11

you were saying that you were in the WinterNets,

18:13

was it? With Mike Watkinson, who actually taught you

18:15

how to swing the ball. And he was

18:18

studying Ebola and just said, can I ask

18:20

you something about your technique and how

18:22

you're bowling? Yeah, so it was a

18:24

chance, actually. So he was working with... It was

18:26

actually Andrew Flintoff's son in the net next to

18:29

where I was bowling and just getting ready for

18:31

the tour. And he said, do you mind if

18:33

I just... You know, I've spotted

18:35

something if you want it. And

18:37

he thought I was sort of... In my run-up, I

18:39

was decelerating as I got to the crease. And obviously,

18:41

as a class bowl, you want momentum. And

18:44

that pace to increase as you get to the crease.

18:46

So that's something that, from that point

18:48

on, I worked really hard on when we went

18:50

out to Abu Dhabi for 10 days before the

18:52

India tour. Did exactly that. And then

18:55

just carried that on. And it felt like

18:57

it really did help throughout. And my pace

18:59

was good throughout. I felt like I bowled

19:02

as well as I have done for quite some

19:04

time. So, you know, it was nice to... He

19:06

actually taught me to swing the ball, so I'm

19:09

quite thankful to him. Because I'm playing quite a

19:11

big part in my career, that. LAUGHTER

19:14

But, yeah, he's since moved away from Lancashire. But

19:16

then that chance meeting on that day, he sort

19:18

of held out an olive branch. It's obviously a

19:21

subconscious thing, but what do you think that speaks

19:23

to? Because so many things must come into your

19:25

game that you're not even aware of. And that

19:27

idea that you're slightly decelerating means that you may

19:29

be tense in ways you didn't know last summer,

19:32

do you think? I don't know.

19:35

Things can creep in. You think...

19:38

I don't say... I'm not saying you never... Or

19:41

you do sort of take your foot off the

19:43

gas. Like, as an

19:46

international cricket, you want to constantly keep improving.

19:48

So you are looking for things, but sometimes

19:50

some things slip through the net, some

19:53

people don't pick up on it. And Mike

19:55

obviously picked up on that one thing, which has

19:57

helped me a huge amount and something like

19:59

that. I'll continue to do but I think it's I

20:01

love that part of the game where you you

20:04

know you find something that You

20:06

work on it for a few sessions, and you immediately Benefits

20:10

from that and I think that's the beauty of Sport

20:12

and and always trying to learn it's not from the

20:15

podcast about your old fitness levels Which I was very

20:17

interested in hearing you talk about that you didn't think

20:19

you were maybe as fit as you should have been

20:21

in The summer and you've gone

20:23

away and worked so hard at it. Yeah, and

20:25

you felt different in India Yeah, when you have

20:27

a bad series though You always look at

20:30

every part of your game to try and think where

20:32

can I improve and I just

20:34

didn't feel like that Was something I've always

20:36

given that The fitness side of

20:38

it a real you know a lot of attention And

20:40

I didn't think I did for

20:42

the for the or the leader especially to that summer

20:45

And if you don't go into a series in

20:47

good shape then obviously it's hard to maintain through

20:49

a through a test series and To

20:52

be honest six months off after the ashes helped you know

20:54

you've got a big window there to really work hard at

20:57

it And that's what I did and I

20:59

literally am in the best shape I've ever been in going

21:01

into that India series I could feel that as well.

21:03

It just wasn't taking anything out of me. I didn't

21:06

feel tired at all My speeds stayed

21:08

the same throughout the day Went

21:10

to Dharmashala, which is at altitude didn't really feel

21:12

any effects from that So I just feel like

21:14

it's it's really paid off and again. That's another

21:16

thing where you When you

21:18

see benefits from something like that, it's amazing. We

21:20

saw the benefits in HD on TNT sport didn't

21:22

we? Not

21:26

plugging them we don't work for them It

21:28

was it was amazing to see you looking that well

21:30

and looking that sort of fit and and up for

21:32

it as well up for the fight So which is

21:34

incredible. Let's talk about someone else who's always up

21:37

for the fight Or he wasn't to

21:39

be retired sadly please welcome another

21:41

legend of the game Stuart Broad Thanks

21:47

for watching! So

22:04

good to have

22:14

you here in that

22:16

little montage the 100 came

22:18

up, maybe we should just start there.

22:21

Memories of your 100 at Lorde, talk us through it. Oh

22:23

wow yeah. Yeah I've got to have that

22:25

to be honest. Oh yeah. It's quite nice when my dad

22:27

sat right in front of me, his highest test score was

22:30

what, But

22:35

yeah it was one of those 169. Sorry

22:37

what was your highest? That's

22:40

more isn't it? Yeah that's just guy,

22:42

sorry you were a batsman right? Yeah.

22:45

It was a batsman. Oh yeah. I

22:48

mean that does feel like a

22:50

bit of a lifetime ago particularly

22:52

how my batting ended up the

22:55

seven years but to

22:57

be honest one place to do it, Lorde's with

22:59

the honours board and the

23:02

feeling that Lorde's give you as a

23:04

player was pretty special but probably one

23:06

of those feats in my career

23:08

that feels a little bit like it didn't happen

23:11

or shouldn't have happened. Speaking of lifetimes

23:13

ago, the oval feels like a very

23:15

long time ago doesn't it? How have

23:18

you processed that over the last few

23:20

months? Yeah I mean it's probably

23:22

my first, well definitely my

23:24

first English winter at home since

23:26

school. Long winter. Long

23:29

aren't they? Welcome back to

23:31

the harsh reality of life.

23:36

Yeah I did sneak a month into South

23:38

Africa in January but it was, yeah

23:42

it's wetter than I remember it. It seems to rain

23:44

a lot. You have plans it's like well I can't

23:47

go outside. But

23:49

do you know what I've

23:51

loved being a fan of the team and I think

23:53

those sort of timings of the, I didn't get up

23:55

at 4am too often but I have got a 16

23:57

month old daughter that got me up on the other cages. It's

24:01

definitely, it's amazing being a fan but

24:03

harder. I sort of got in my

24:06

mind that I'd get through this nursery

24:08

run in the car, listen to the

24:10

radio, we'd lose wickets and I think it's my fault.

24:13

So by the end of the fourth test I'd

24:15

stop listening to the radio so I thought that

24:17

me getting the car would help us lose wickets.

24:19

It made any sense. So

24:22

it's definitely much easier being a player

24:24

when you have some sort of control

24:26

over what's happening than being

24:28

a watcher from afar. Particularly being

24:30

so close to the guys as I am, having played

24:32

in the last test match in

24:35

July. But I've got such

24:37

amazing memories of the overall. It feels

24:39

a bit of a whirlwind how I

24:41

finished. That feeling

24:43

like my last ever ball, taking

24:46

a wicket and sort of running off

24:48

and Jimmy being the first person that

24:50

I got to and the crowd being

24:53

so uplifted. And that whole day for me,

24:55

as a sports person, very very rarely do

24:57

you get to take in the crowd

25:00

and the atmosphere and what's going on because

25:02

you're so focused on the job in hand.

25:05

Like what's the next building, who's the next batter,

25:07

what's the game situation. And because I knew I

25:09

was stopping I gave myself

25:11

that time to look around and

25:14

appreciate the atmosphere and the fun people were

25:17

having in the crowd. I could see little

25:19

headbands in different pockets of

25:21

the crowd. So my

25:23

memories of walking off a cricket field I can

25:25

remember really clearly and a lot of it

25:27

I'm sure because Jimmy still plays it becomes a bit

25:29

of a haze because if you lose you're sort of

25:31

staring at the turf, you walk off or if you're

25:34

thinking about the next challenge. But because I

25:36

could walk off knowing that my challenges were

25:39

done, I could soak it in and

25:41

I could still feel that emotion. So

25:45

I think that will stay with me for a

25:47

long long time. So it's so peaceful to hear

25:49

that because for me that was the most supernatural

25:51

day I've ever experienced watching cricket actually where I'll

25:53

be the same if everyone in this room but

25:56

we spent the entire time shooting games in the

25:58

building watching you. with that,

26:00

you felt a re-placing of your own

26:02

life and I always had that quick

26:04

roll call fish bits to you

26:07

getting picked with Jimmy for Hogard and Harmison out

26:09

in New Zealand and even the loads of being

26:11

hit for those sixes by you, Brad, and all

26:13

those kinds of things, the amount of life that

26:15

we've lived with you and that when you ran

26:18

into Boer that last over, I

26:20

genuinely felt like I was watching the Stuart

26:22

Broad that was 19 and the Stuart Broad

26:25

was in the 20s in the U-Men, it

26:27

was really unreal feeling. Did you

26:29

have a sense of that as well? Was it

26:31

cinematic for you? It just...

26:34

You ain't got a clue what that means.

26:39

Very true. Did

26:42

you have a nice day? I

26:48

think... Did

26:52

you feel like you were in a film? Any

26:55

time you leave something or leaving something

26:58

you love, it's the hardest decision that you're

27:00

ever going to have to make but mine did feel

27:02

quite a quick decision. It started umming and

27:05

auring around the Old Trafford Test match and

27:08

told Jimmy on the Saturday morning, I

27:10

think it was, and the

27:12

last day was the Monday evening. So it all felt

27:15

pretty quick but I think

27:17

with the stress and the anxiety of making a

27:19

big hook, it's a huge decision to say, that's

27:21

it, I'm not going to play cricket at

27:23

all anymore and play for England. You're giving

27:26

away something that is just a dream of

27:28

yours and the change room is incredible, playing

27:30

cricket for England is heaven on earth, it's

27:33

just superb. So walking away from that knowing

27:35

I could still do it and still felt

27:37

like I had probably a couple more years

27:39

left in me was difficult but once I

27:42

had come to that conclusion, I just felt

27:44

light and free and a bit how I

27:46

mentioned earlier about soaking in the atmosphere, I

27:48

could just enjoy it because

27:51

ultimately yes of course wanted

27:53

to win the game but didn't

27:55

have to think too far ahead. I could just enjoy

27:57

bowling that ball, enjoy bowling that spell, enjoy woken up.

28:00

That awesome spell after the rain break to

28:02

get us back in the game. I

28:05

don't know, there's not many atmospheres I can

28:08

really think back to in the 15, 16

28:10

years I played that

28:13

I can pinpoint, but it's so nice

28:15

that the last memories I have of

28:17

it, I can pinpoint it so accurately.

28:19

I can have so many moments, especially

28:21

batting the Jimmy for the last ever

28:24

time, walking off the field, that Jimmy

28:26

actually sent me as a retirement gift,

28:28

the picture of us walking onto the

28:30

field with our backs

28:32

in show walking on with the Australian Guard

28:34

of Honor. Those sort of pictures are

28:37

hugely special and probably the things you only appreciate when

28:39

you know that you can't do it anymore. With that

28:41

in mind when you said you felt like you had

28:43

a couple of seasons left to pretend to be, but

28:45

you thought that was the right moment, what was it

28:47

like watching everyone in India? Was there

28:50

much communication with the team, with

28:52

the squad? I didn't

28:54

miss the playing side

28:56

watching the guys in India. It's a

28:59

long tour. When you got home

29:01

last week, I looked back and

29:03

there was a message mid-jan when you

29:06

left. I was like mid-January? That's mad.

29:09

You've been away like 12 weeks or something. I haven't

29:12

missed that side of the time away from

29:14

home and the travelling and actually the playing

29:16

yet, but

29:18

everyone I've spoken to who has moved away

29:21

from the game, there's a moment that hits

29:23

every single player, so that will come. Whether

29:25

that's not Imsha walking out

29:27

at Trent Ridge or actually

29:29

very soon, isn't it? It's like two

29:31

weeks or something. Or England at

29:34

Lourdes. There's definitely going to be a moment where I

29:36

go, wow. And from your side, did

29:38

you miss Brodie on a tour? Not

29:40

just obviously Bolen because you might not have bothered

29:43

much out there, Brodie, but did

29:47

you miss having him there? I

29:49

can't see his face currently, so I imagine he's

29:52

frowning. Me? No,

29:55

I don't really want to. Yes,

29:57

yes, we missed him. Are

30:03

you gonna cook? Because without him is

30:05

it comes focused on infants that I

30:07

think this is my child. Consent. To

30:11

time this a sumo mrs to

30:13

abroad is the first test laws

30:16

versus the summer. Nice What he.

30:18

Has live for for the last fifteen

30:20

years. You're going through those gates set

30:23

in it's own for this for the

30:25

English so might I just feel like

30:27

if I think about versus of any

30:29

size is him some reason all those

30:31

moments throughout the summer where the team

30:33

needs something and it's the ball thrown

30:35

said to him and he he comes

30:37

over something sick a Ashes series which

30:39

to see many many times something us

30:41

when England were missing the most. I'm

30:44

having a look at him as a sign on. Our

30:47

father and son is up to the assassin.

30:49

I. Put

30:55

it is a very it's very special thing

30:57

that you have says on and off the

30:59

pitch and it's something that. Cricket

31:02

fans on always treated to be not

31:04

all this. this doesn't happen very often.

31:06

The get to be the same time

31:08

audience and and this is very special

31:11

we've all experienced that you clearly aware

31:13

of. It so that

31:15

I suppose and your personal friendship is

31:17

is of the really special will be

31:19

like do now is is can just

31:21

grab the ball eats like this one

31:24

I just feel it's it's not such

31:26

an opportunity to cats so goddess he

31:28

went by without snow. New on. Since

31:32

it plays for I just want to

31:34

see. We. Want to see something

31:37

so as lattices so competitive or is

31:39

maybe some and he saw each other

31:41

for he loves me southern Something something

31:43

please. Well as

31:45

south try to teach him for fifteen years

31:47

that this rope a bit down the middle

31:50

way. Every

31:53

summer got the ball back. Shiny services

31:55

Much? Nope. no

31:58

i do so The thing I

32:00

think about, when you talk about our partnership,

32:03

it's the moments where we've had

32:05

a real impact on the other's

32:08

performance or game. And I think back

32:10

to Antigua 16, I

32:12

think it was. 15 or 16. 15, wasn't

32:14

the last one famously. Um. Um.

32:17

Um. And. It's

32:23

like you Strauss in the house. Um. Um.

32:27

Best thing that could have happened to you, Bitch. Try

32:30

to make a serious point. Um. So

32:32

am I. So

32:35

Broady's always bold and amazing leg cutter,

32:37

which is basically where you

32:39

run your fingers down that side of

32:41

the ball and it sort of puts spin on it to take

32:43

it away from a right in the batter. And

32:46

I'd always wanted to bowl it, but because of my

32:48

action, I'm more naturally the other way. But

32:50

he sort of tried to copy him and sort

32:53

of put it into my game. And then this

32:55

one gaming Antigua, the pitch was

32:57

really flat. And he said, try

32:59

a leg cutter. So I tried it and it

33:01

came out slow and short. He

33:03

thought, well, back to my mark, right? All

33:05

it was as fast as you can. And as far

33:07

as you can. The next board did exactly

33:09

that. And I think it was Dinesh Rondin nicked it to

33:11

Alice to cook at first slip. And I just like that

33:13

is the sort of thing that will stick with me. Like

33:16

he is just as much part

33:18

of that wicked as I am. You know, it's,

33:20

um, and we've, we've started how we sort of

33:23

evolved as cricketers. I think we both took

33:25

an interest in each of those game. We knew

33:27

each of the strengths and weaknesses and we tried

33:29

to help each other through all the time. I

33:31

think in Creckee, you often talk about battering partnerships,

33:33

don't you? Like opening batter's work together and full

33:35

of a wicked builder partnership. Whereas quite

33:38

rarely do you talk about the importance of

33:40

a bowling partnership together. And that doesn't mean

33:42

that when you're bowling at the

33:44

other end all the time, but actually if

33:46

I'm having a spell off and Jimmy's bowling,

33:48

just looking how his rhythm is, how he's

33:51

feeling, what length he's bowling. And we often

33:53

talk about each other's run-ups to each other. So

33:55

you have to be quite brave and honest at

33:57

times to say, I think you're over striding quick

34:00

or too slowly and ultimately

34:02

a six over spell can go so

34:04

quickly if you don't share honest feedback

34:06

straight away then it's just a waste

34:08

of six overs so actually we both

34:10

in the last 10 years got really

34:12

good at taking feedback immediately and

34:14

putting it into practice but I think I think

34:18

why we were successful ultimately your job as

34:20

an opening bowler is to locate

34:22

the top of our stump on that particular

34:24

pitch quicker than the opening batter and make

34:27

breakthroughs and obviously we're different

34:29

heights and deliver from different

34:32

trajectories but we were

34:34

really good at communicating every three balls we'd be

34:36

talking about what we were feeling Jimmy would always

34:38

try and swing the ball early just to see

34:41

if there was movement I never felt comfortable doing

34:43

that I didn't if I tried to swing my

34:45

first ball I felt like I didn't

34:47

have the control Jimmy would so I could swing

34:49

it into width and a bowl too full and

34:51

get driven so I would always bowl my first

34:54

nine deliveries as a wobble team

34:56

because I needed him to tell

34:59

me it's swinging consistently so then I

35:01

could trust what was happening so

35:03

we'd always have just little technical

35:05

differences throughout each spell that

35:08

would grow our partnership and we pride ourselves

35:10

for a long time on not getting hit

35:12

the boundaries early that could build pressure from

35:14

both ends and I think we

35:16

had a lot of success with that particularly in

35:18

the last 10 years Jimmy often that sorry sorry

35:20

just quickly one my favorite spells was actually here

35:23

against New Zealand probably got seven for 40 I

35:25

think something like that yeah but

35:27

it was the fact that we were

35:29

both building pressure from both ends I knew that

35:31

he was on a roll that in so

35:34

I wasn't trying to take wickets necessarily from that from the

35:36

other end now I should literally just trying to be

35:38

boring and dry up and let him just

35:41

run down the hill and try and attack as much as

35:44

possible so I think that's again that understanding of what

35:46

the other guys trying to do yeah I was

35:48

gonna say shit Jimmy often talks about when he's

35:50

bowling well it's just a feel of it leaving

35:52

his middle finger like you have a sense of

35:54

it just from the way it comes off like

35:57

that very split second like you almost know before

35:59

anybody else does it in rhythm and that falls

36:01

come out well. Did you have like

36:03

picks or clues like that when you're bowling?

36:05

Obviously the one that we observed from afar

36:07

was when the knees are going

36:09

up in a particular moment type thing. I don't

36:12

know if that's too broad an observation, like pun

36:14

intended, but like what like do you have giveaways

36:16

for that? Yeah I mean my

36:18

run-up was was everything to me because

36:21

I remodeled it. Actually I was watching, when

36:23

did you break McGrath's

36:26

record? 17 was it? I

36:28

was at Mid-on and I was watching Jimmy running into

36:30

bowl and it was so

36:32

smooth it was incredible honestly it was it

36:35

was bowling is you know 20th over and

36:37

it just looks so economical and I didn't

36:40

feel like that, I was a bit out of rhythm

36:43

and I decided then and then right I'm going to

36:45

change my run-up and tweak it sort of throughout the

36:47

winter of 18 put it into place

36:49

at the start of 2019 and

36:51

dad actually played a lot of cricket with

36:53

Richard Hadley famous New Zealand bowler and got

36:55

me his email address and I emailed him

36:57

because he changed his run-up at

36:59

30 from very long to shorter and

37:02

honestly the detail this guy sent me

37:04

on bowling it's just beautiful I sometimes

37:06

go back and read it like 3A4

37:08

pages of email of why he changed

37:11

the technical, the mental side of

37:13

it, what I should look for and it

37:16

took me three or four months to implement

37:18

and work on but it elongated my

37:20

career without a doubt because it was

37:23

all about shortening my run-up stride to

37:25

get my knees pumping up instead of

37:27

out but I would be then balanced at the

37:29

crease to get taller and that

37:31

was probably you know when I

37:34

did a bit of running technique that Jimmy actually led

37:36

in the team a little bit because bowling is a

37:38

funny thing you can watch someone running a straight line

37:41

and it's beautiful you put a cricket

37:43

ball on the hand and their whole technique

37:45

changes completely so I did quite a bit of

37:47

that and you know any advice to young

37:49

bowlers I would say would be really focus on

37:51

the balance and tempo of your run-up it's not

37:54

a sprint it's controlled tempo and you know

37:56

Jimmy's 41 How'd

38:00

it go higher? Even

38:05

now you're talking about the importance of his

38:07

run-up in India and that's how his momentum

38:09

is gathering. For me, you can

38:12

talk about wrist and positioning at the crease but

38:14

if you don't get the start and the build-up

38:16

of your run-up and the tempo right you're going

38:18

to be unbalanced at the business end. These nuances

38:20

and these technicalities, these are just a few of

38:23

the reasons why we love test cricket so much

38:25

and that's why everyone in this room love test

38:27

cricket. I want to just ask you, Brody, where

38:30

does test cricket go and how do

38:32

we make sure it remains as a very

38:34

important part of the game that we love?

38:37

Yeah, there's still a huge hunger for test

38:40

match cricket and particularly in England,

38:43

Australia, India but having

38:46

spent a month in South Africa the energy for

38:48

test match cricket is very high and I'm not

38:50

just talking of a certain generation. I don't

38:52

buy into this, kids don't like test cricket

38:55

or don't like watching test cricket. They might

38:57

not watch 90 over the

38:59

day but I don't. I love

39:01

that feeling of having it on the radio or

39:03

the TV, you nip off, you make a cup

39:05

of tea, you come back, eight-o's of a gan,

39:07

you catch up and it's just a rhythm of

39:09

it being around. It's like someone's keeping you company.

39:12

That's how I view test match cricket and I'd

39:14

say the best day of my winter was in

39:16

Cape Town. I had an early

39:18

flight from Joburg into Cape Town, landed at eight

39:21

o'clock. England were playing India in Hyderabad.

39:23

I think the Windys were playing

39:26

Australia at the gabber and the energy

39:28

of people talking about it and my interest

39:31

in the two test matches going on at

39:33

the same time. West Indies

39:35

got a wicket, who's out? Shamar Jones got

39:37

another one and then bang, you know, it's

39:39

turning a hydrogel and that sort of lit

39:41

a bit of a fuse in my mind

39:43

of this works. It works having

39:45

two test matches, maybe three test matches going

39:48

on at the same time in different parts

39:50

of the world that builds the

39:52

conversation, it builds the interest in it and

39:54

it keeps your interest

39:57

in the worldwide game as well. I think we all

39:59

bought into it. into the emotion of the West

40:01

Indies beating Australia at the gabber, maybe

40:03

because we're English, I don't know. But

40:06

I think there's potential for a window of

40:08

test match cricket,

40:12

whether that's Boxing Day in the New Year test in

40:14

different parts of the world, or whether it's in

40:17

the UK at different times. But

40:20

for me as a fan, I just loved

40:22

that feeling of being able to flip channels,

40:25

check the score of different games going on

40:27

at the same time, and ultimately

40:30

there's an imbalance, isn't there? I think they're playing

40:32

15 tests a year, and other

40:34

nations are playing two or three, and

40:36

the test championship all looks a bit odd,

40:39

doesn't it? With the amount of games, but

40:41

I wonder if there's a

40:44

window opportunity where players and

40:46

teams could separate their schedule

40:48

and play, because ultimately, having just retired from the

40:50

game, between me still in the game, been around

40:52

a lot of younger players, the hunger's

40:54

there for test cricket. It is the format that

40:57

just fills your heart with joy, and

40:59

that still is the same for younger players. I

41:01

feel like... Yeah. Hi,

41:10

my name's Eddie Hearn, and this is No Passion,

41:12

No Point. I'm excited

41:14

to be back with this new series. As

41:16

always, I'll be talking to top performers about

41:18

what drives them, how they gain an edge

41:20

over competitors, and whether their dedication to constant

41:23

improvement comes at a cost. I love

41:25

golf. I'm hating to man's teeth. I

41:27

just enjoy that they're playing with no fear.

41:29

What makes them feel fulfilled? It's not the monies,

41:31

it's not the trophies, it's the friendships and the

41:33

memories I've got. And does that change as their

41:35

career progresses? Just a girl who grew

41:37

up playing football, and now I'm getting

41:39

past, like, without even seeing the camera

41:41

like it's crazy. We're in BBC Radio,

41:44

live live, no passion, no point. Listen,

41:46

whenever you like, on BBC Sounds. Mentioning

41:49

the gabber is a nice way to

41:51

bring on our next very special guest.

41:53

I think it's time for another international

41:56

quicketer. Please welcome Isha Gua. Isha! A

42:02

tail end is regular when we can get

42:04

you. My God, you're busy

42:06

all year round. There's no mean

42:09

feat, but I think it's underappreciated

42:11

that you are out in Australia

42:13

fronting that coverage. You

42:16

must love doing that. Thanks Greg. I

42:19

think we're all pretty busy on these

42:21

benches, but as

42:23

someone who played for England,

42:25

loves watching England play, it's

42:28

wonderful watching Australia dominate every

42:30

single season. It's

42:32

really amazing. Take

42:35

it to the gapper though, because as Brodie was

42:37

talking about, that was an extraordinary victory by the

42:40

West Indies. It was, and look,

42:42

there was so much hope when England came

42:44

over a couple of years ago. We don't

42:47

need to remind everyone what happened there. Brodie

42:49

still doesn't know why he won't pick.

42:54

But it's a place

42:56

that has become a bit of an issue

42:58

for Australia. I think

43:01

everyone started that season thinking

43:03

Pakistan, West Indies coming over, a lot

43:05

of touring teams coming to Australia. You

43:09

expect that it's going to be a challenge, and

43:11

certainly for those two teams, you thought that Australia

43:13

would just run away with it. For

43:16

the West Indies to do what they did,

43:19

Shama Joseph, an absolute revelation. I can't remember

43:21

a better debut for him the game before,

43:23

and then the way he

43:25

just kept coming, and he kept fighting.

43:28

What it did for West Indies cricket is

43:31

just unimaginable really. When you

43:33

think of all of us in this room and

43:35

everyone around the world who wants to

43:38

see a thriving West Indies cricket team after their

43:40

domination in the 80s and the early 90s,

43:43

it was a really emotional moment. I was

43:45

down on ground when they eventually took that

43:47

last wicket, Shama Joseph with Sevenfer.

43:50

They were running around the ground, and

43:53

literally everywhere you turned, people had

43:55

tears streaming down their face. That

43:58

wasn't just West Indies cricket. Karl

44:00

Pooper was

44:02

there and you could just

44:04

see what it meant. You would have seen the commentary of

44:07

Brian Lara and I've never

44:09

heard him so animated. It was

44:12

incredible. A few moments ago, that

44:14

2017, we were in the commentary box and

44:16

it was meant to be, wasn't it? Yeah.

44:19

Beautiful. So you get to

44:21

watch some of the most incredible cricketers in the

44:23

world. You follow them around the world, essentially. Give

44:25

us your pick from the winter. Shmajo

44:30

Ziff right up there. I mean, you

44:32

look at the Australian team at the moment, men and

44:35

women, and it's hard to pick one because

44:37

they're all so good. It's

44:39

hard to look past the

44:42

Kingston, Pat Gummins, pretty much everything

44:44

he teaches turns to gold, every

44:46

decision he makes and

44:48

just what he does with

44:50

the ball. It's pretty incredible. So

44:53

he's probably up there. Hard

44:55

to look past Elise Perry, maybe. Yeah.

44:57

Well, I'm a

44:59

big fan of Elise Perry. She's arguably one of the

45:01

greatest that's ever been, not just in the women's game,

45:04

in the men's game as well. I

45:06

think when you look at what she brings

45:08

to the table, you talk about longevity, these

45:10

two players, for her to be able

45:12

to start as a 16-year-old. Yeah.

45:14

And I was a big supporter of her early days.

45:16

I mean, I let her hit me to six times.

45:21

You like to really work. In her debut game. I've

45:24

actually seen that on TV, isn't it? Welcome

45:26

to international cricket, Elise. No,

45:28

she's done some tremendous things for women's

45:31

cricket. But you look at her as

45:33

a cricketer and that winning mentality that

45:35

she brings to the table, she's always

45:37

up for the fight in the big

45:40

games. You just watch the campaign

45:42

that Royal Challenge has just had. She was part

45:44

of the match in the last three matches to

45:46

help them to lift in the trophy.

45:48

So she is all time. And

45:52

what I love about her as well

45:54

is that she always has time for

45:56

everyone else as well. So you always

45:58

see her signing autographs, post-main. and

46:01

the inspiration that she's brought

46:03

to the table for young girls, also

46:05

young boys, is phenomenal. Lots of progress

46:07

in the women's game in the last few years. Big

46:10

bash, women's IPL, 100, central contracts

46:12

and all the rest of it.

46:14

It's good. Taking a while, isn't

46:16

it? Yeah. I'm

46:18

always pretty philosophical about it. I

46:20

mean, in the long history of

46:22

humans on Earth, 200

46:25

years to recognise that women can play cricket is actually

46:27

pretty good. Well done, everyone. There's

46:37

no question. It's just

46:40

gone to another level. And we always knew with

46:42

the women's Premier League, as

46:45

soon as you unlocked women's cricket in India,

46:47

it would just fly. And that's what we're

46:49

seeing. Commercialism in

46:51

the game now is an all-time high.

46:53

Sponsors want to get involved. The 100's

46:55

done a tremendous amount for the women's

46:57

game in terms of scale and visibility.

47:00

And it's thriving at

47:03

the moment. And it's just great

47:05

to see. I mean, I don't think 20 years

47:07

ago, I would have imagined it to be where

47:09

it is right now, which is great. Talk

47:11

about it as a journey. There's still

47:14

so much to do, especially at grassroots

47:16

level, domestically, globally, to make sure that

47:19

the top teams aren't pulling away from the pack. It's

47:21

up to all of us to make sure that transition is

47:24

managed well. And there are still so

47:26

many barriers for young women as

47:28

well in the game. So it's important that

47:30

we acknowledge that and learn from it and

47:32

try to be better. Just quickly, on the

47:35

100 aspects, Esha, what's really interesting to me in

47:37

the last couple of years, especially with women's games

47:39

in the afternoon, is that for decades,

47:42

I've been going into the outside world, outside of

47:44

cricket, and telling people what a great game cricket

47:46

is, and then trying to bring them into cricket

47:49

matches here on Friday night at the Oval, and

47:51

having moments where I feel a little

47:54

bit like, oh, like half-embarrassed because it's

47:56

a stag-do of 20,000 people, or like,

47:58

what's the best way to do it. And the

48:00

thing that I've described isn't necessarily the

48:03

thing that they're seeing. And what

48:05

I thought was really beautiful about the women's

48:07

games, especially in the 100, was that

48:10

the thing that I was telling them about was

48:12

the essence of it was inside those games.

48:15

And I don't know if anyone necessarily expected that,

48:17

but because maybe they were earlier

48:19

games, everyone felt they were locked in in a

48:21

different way. But because of the different, you know,

48:23

younger women in there and that kind of thing,

48:26

you felt like you were really watching what

48:28

the future of cricket might be and something that we

48:31

could all be really proud of. It was just a

48:33

different feeling in there, wasn't it? And I'm sort of

48:35

not making that up just to just feel like it

48:37

really did feel like that. Yeah. It's

48:39

a sort of environment where you don't feel like you're at the

48:41

darts. It's more like a

48:44

family afternoon being spent watching the

48:46

women's game. And it does bring

48:48

a different audience. And that's what

48:50

we're trying to do in cricket.

48:52

I mean, I've been fortunate enough

48:54

to work in different sports and

48:56

I look at cricket and their envious

48:59

ability to appeal to the masses

49:01

in different ways. And we often

49:03

berate ourselves for the million different

49:05

formats that we have. But actually,

49:10

it's good for the game. You know, it's hard

49:12

for the players because they can't play all the

49:14

formats consistently. But I'd like to

49:16

say we're in a good spot in that respect. So

49:19

what you're saying is throw enough formats at the

49:21

wall, something will stick. It's

49:25

a bit on the subject of what P was

49:27

talking about. I took my niece to go and

49:29

see one of the T20s in the summer, one

49:31

of the women's T20s. And I saw the moment

49:33

that she got it. And it's a grout

49:35

I've been to the Oval since about eight. So we got

49:37

to the Oval. And I saw her

49:40

through her eyes. She went, oh,

49:42

I get it. I really like it. So

49:44

was there a moment for you when you saw

49:46

some cricket or you played some cricket or I

49:49

love this. This is the thing that I can do

49:51

that I love. A great question.

49:54

I think for me, it was getting

49:56

out the boys. That's

50:00

probably my favorite moment early on.

50:05

But on a serious note, it gave me a lot

50:07

of confidence. So as a

50:09

youngster, as an eight year old, nine year

50:12

old, you're growing up in an environment where, you

50:14

know, you're just trying to fit in and

50:17

to be the only one in that environment

50:19

doing well, I think does

50:21

give you confidence to be able

50:23

to take that in school and

50:25

beyond. So someone asked me

50:27

the other day, you know, how do

50:30

you do it in a male dominated environment in

50:32

broadcast and I said to them,

50:34

pretty much I've been used to it from

50:37

an early age. So I actually enjoy

50:39

that. I enjoy being the only one

50:41

sometimes because you want to prove that

50:44

you're not, you're not the only one

50:46

if you know what I mean. But yeah,

50:48

it's obviously changed drastically now and there are

50:51

way more opportunities for women and it's

50:53

great to have that support network around you.

50:55

You know, I watch cricket now and it's,

50:57

you know, it feels weird not to have

50:59

a female voice and watching

51:01

the women's world cup, there are so many new

51:04

voices that I'm hearing. It's really refreshing to hear.

51:06

So yeah, that's all we want. We

51:08

want it to be normalized. Just quickly from

51:10

a broadcasting perspective, each of the day, whenever I

51:12

see you on TV or hear you on radio,

51:15

like I have the feeling of when

51:17

you're, when I used to be a teenager and

51:19

someone great wasn't like, oh, we're in really safe

51:21

hands here. Like I feel at home and this

51:23

is just like flowing through me.

51:25

Like Stuart says when you're watching test

51:27

cricket and it's in the peripherals, your

51:29

voice has become actually synonymous with that.

51:32

How aware of that are you? Globally as

51:34

well, here in Australia and all over the

51:36

place. It's weird

51:39

because I hate my voice. Really?

51:42

Yeah, oh. Why have

51:44

you chosen to do what

51:47

you do? It just

51:49

happened, like I fell into it. And someone

51:52

played, I think Adam's here, BBC,

51:55

Test Match Special, Adam Alfred.

51:57

Who gave you the an

52:00

early opportunity with the BBC by the

52:02

way and one of the pioneers of

52:04

getting more women involved. Someone

52:07

played me a clip of me 12 years

52:09

ago and I sounded like a mouth. It

52:11

was awful.

52:14

And then sometimes at the ground they played

52:17

back highlights and it's so off-putting

52:19

here in my voice that. But

52:21

yeah, I never thought I could

52:23

be a commentator and I really

52:25

had to learn pitch and people

52:27

would say, our women's voice is

52:30

really shrieky. So I've had to

52:33

learn what works for me and

52:35

I'm still not obviously happy with it

52:37

but you just constantly try and improve as

52:39

you go. You do a lot of work in

52:41

or you play the trail by being you in

52:44

the sport but you do a lot of work with Take

52:46

Her Lead which is an amazing

52:49

charity you've started. I'd like you to tell everyone

52:51

a little bit more about that. Yeah, so there

52:53

were a lot of amazing charities in

52:55

cricket and what I

52:57

wanted to do was do something in my mum's honour so

53:00

we lost her in 2019 and she was really big

53:02

on, she used to

53:07

call it, forwarding people. So

53:09

mentoring kids in the community

53:12

to get out of the comfort zones and build

53:15

confidence in different environments. And

53:18

what I looked at in cricket was there

53:20

was still a disconnect between the communities and

53:23

the pathway especially for young

53:25

girls. So it was really about

53:27

dropping down and listening to their

53:29

experiences. Barriers they still face.

53:31

What was really surprising was that the

53:33

barriers they face now we faced 20

53:35

years ago so still

53:38

a lot of work to be done. But yeah,

53:40

Take Her Lead was formed to basically advance

53:44

equity and diversity in cricket and to increase

53:46

participation for women and girls. It's very broad

53:48

but a lot of what we do is

53:50

around mentoring so we have

53:52

player champions who work with communities

53:54

and young girls

53:57

and hopefully through

53:59

those experiences. is they build a trust

54:01

to then be able to come into

54:03

the pathway and really just create a

54:05

better environment for girls wherever they're involved.

54:07

Because girls come to the sport for

54:09

many different reasons, more so than boys,

54:11

I'd say. Sometimes they just

54:13

want to be with their mates and not

54:15

be competitive. So it's about creating a space

54:18

where they can feel like they can be

54:20

themselves. I want to talk to you

54:22

a little bit about the challenges facing the game. And

54:25

in particular, places where

54:27

cricket is not able to be played

54:29

at the minute. Talking about Afghanistan. What

54:32

are your thoughts on what's happening there at the

54:35

moment? It's a really difficult topic.

54:37

And I think a lot of people don't

54:39

know what to think about it or how

54:41

to view it. And because

54:44

the Constitution has been overlooked

54:47

or ignored, national governing bodies are

54:49

having to make their own decision about what the right thing

54:51

to do is. I look at it

54:54

in terms of those that have been

54:56

oppressed. Imagine yourself waking up

54:58

and you've lost all

55:01

basic human rights. The idea of

55:03

playing cricket is gone. And

55:05

that was something that gave you hope. You've had

55:07

to burn your kit and your training kit because

55:09

you don't know what's

55:12

going to happen to you or your family.

55:14

You're fleeing the country not

55:16

knowing if you'll ever see your friends or family

55:18

ever again. And while these women

55:20

support the men's team and

55:23

they understand the hope it creates for

55:25

the country, it's a damning

55:27

reminder of the stark reality that they face

55:31

in that the world has turned their back on them.

55:33

And that's hard to see.

55:36

And I think the game can probably

55:38

do more to support these women and

55:41

to stand up against general vision. And

55:44

yeah, that's probably what I think of it. It's

55:47

for perfectball. We

56:00

love having you on this podcast and thanks

56:02

for being here at the Cowdery Lecture. This

56:04

is proper, isn't it? Should we

56:06

look ahead to the summer? Because

56:09

this is the time of year when we

56:11

can start picking our fantasy drafting for the

56:13

Kansas Championship. Oh yeah, don't get that started.

56:15

Just don't over that. And we have an

56:17

amazing summer ahead. Jimmy, what are your preparations

56:20

the next couple of months?

56:22

Obviously a bit of golf

56:24

there. And then will

56:26

we be seeing you playing for Lancashire? Oh I

56:28

would have thought so, yeah. The

56:32

tests are quite late this year. July I think the

56:34

test matches are so I might not

56:37

be involved early season but

56:40

it's really difficult

56:42

when obviously I want to play for Lancashire

56:44

but you've got to keep in mind as

56:46

a century-conjunct player that you're preparing for that

56:48

test series so it'll probably be towards the

56:51

end of May, June where I start playing again.

56:53

What are you looking to achieve now? 800

56:56

test wickets? 200

56:58

tests? 200 tests? I don't know. I

57:01

don't know. Honestly I don't set goals or anything like

57:04

that. I

57:06

know but what's the thing we're all going to ask you

57:08

about now every single day for the next few years? Ashes?

57:11

Ashes, yeah. I don't know. You'll

57:13

find something. You always do.

57:15

I think now's a nice moment to bring back one

57:17

of the voices we grew up listening to. I would

57:19

love to see that. Talking us through some of the

57:21

great test matches. Let's welcome back to the stage, Mark

57:23

Nicholas. Well, President and Chairman.

57:25

Both. No, not Chairman yet. There's

57:28

a long way to go. We get overexcited. Do you pick

57:30

the Chairman? No. No. Oh

57:33

great. Mark, Mark, Mark. Well,

58:00

I love that. I love the pre-season. I mean, that's

58:02

the old cliche about, you know, this

58:04

man of freshly mowed grass applied to

58:07

all of us who love the game, I think. It

58:09

always feels a long way to the English summer to

58:11

start. And I stroll across the

58:13

field, because I can do that now. But

58:17

the time came when Jamie Cox, the head of cricket, and we

58:19

looked at the pitches and hoped for

58:21

more pace in them as the boys would, I'm

58:23

sure. And we were excited by the start of

58:25

summer. I mean, I don't think you

58:27

can't not be excited. And we almost had a

58:29

spring day today, so that was a proper

58:32

bonus. I came here first

58:35

to play cricket. I came here to watch cricket early. But

58:37

I came here first to play cricket in the

58:39

Easter coaching classes when I was 11 years old.

58:43

And it was entirely because of a man who's in

58:45

the room. And I haven't been able to say hello

58:47

to him. But sitting in a wheelchair, but no less

58:50

active in his life because of it, is

58:53

Sir Oliver Popplewell, whose son

58:55

Nigel Popplewell I grew up with,

58:57

playing cricket in their garden. And

59:00

he's here tonight. And he bought

59:02

after my father died, he

59:05

fixed it up for me to have Easter

59:07

coaching classes at Lord's. Thank you, Oliver. So,

59:17

Mark, that's where your love of cricket started.

59:19

No, no, it's a development.

59:21

No, it started with my dad, who died

59:23

when I was 10. But yeah, I mean,

59:26

I won't bore everybody with that because,

59:29

you know, we play

59:31

in the street in our house in Shepherd's

59:33

Bush, just outside. We chalk stumps on the

59:36

brick wall. There weren't so many cars

59:38

on the road then, and they were Morris miners most

59:40

of the moment. And

59:43

then we moved to Roehampton and played in

59:45

the garden. And I came to

59:47

the Natwes final here, and we went home

59:49

and replicated all the players. Ted Dexter was

59:52

my first hero, John Snow, you know. And

59:55

that thing with your father, where you replicate

59:57

the great players and have that in your

59:59

house. interaction and

1:00:01

I'm sure Chris and Jay, all

1:00:04

the couches were feeling this through the way

1:00:06

that the family have centred their love

1:00:08

of the game. You never

1:00:11

lose that. That is what forms

1:00:13

you and if you like, creates

1:00:15

your spirit around the sport you fall in

1:00:18

love with. It's spirit for you and vice

1:00:20

versa. You kind of wrap your arms around

1:00:22

each other, the sport in you and in

1:00:24

our case, it's been with us all our

1:00:27

lives and we've ended up as broadies doing

1:00:29

a great job starting broadcasting Isa's

1:00:31

Pyrexelance. Jimmy is not

1:00:33

bad. Jimmy

1:00:36

is bloody good. I've worked on radio with

1:00:38

Jimmy and he can take you to places

1:00:40

others can't, areas of analysis and

1:00:43

people don't focus enough on their great skill.

1:00:45

What's a great skill of broadcasting? Giving the

1:00:47

viewer or the audience something they haven't got

1:00:50

and Jimmy can do that. If you're on air with

1:00:52

Jimmy, get him to talk about bowling, what's the art

1:00:54

and that lovely thing where he talked about the leg

1:00:56

cutter that broadly taught him. That's perhaps the moment of

1:00:59

the night for me because it takes us into

1:01:01

a world that we don't otherwise know. Jimmy,

1:01:03

how did you get into that world that now

1:01:05

nobody else knows about? Your world as a

1:01:07

bowler. What was the first moment and why

1:01:10

do you still love it? Well, I wasn't

1:01:12

always a bowler. Like when

1:01:14

I started growing up when I first got introduced to

1:01:16

the game, I loved it from the start but I

1:01:18

was a fielder. Genuine.

1:01:23

I loved fielding at square leg and

1:01:25

diving around, getting grass stains on my

1:01:27

whites. My mum hated it but trying

1:01:30

to take diving catches and stops and getting

1:01:32

runouts and stuff like that because I was

1:01:34

pretty average at both batting and bowling. It

1:01:37

wasn't until I was 15 that I actually

1:01:39

started getting better at bowling and thought that

1:01:42

actually I could do something with

1:01:44

it. But I think that's something

1:01:46

that not a lot of people have,

1:01:48

especially play professional cricket, they don't love

1:01:50

fielding and I think that is something,

1:01:53

one of the reasons I'm still going is because I

1:01:55

absolutely love it. I love chasing the ball to boundary,

1:01:57

I love to try and claw it back in at

1:01:59

the last. last minute and save four

1:02:01

runs or take a diving catch. I absolutely love

1:02:03

that. I think it's one of the best things

1:02:05

to do. You don't always look like you absolutely

1:02:07

love it. Is it inside? Inside.

1:02:14

Where? From the top. Where do you

1:02:16

go from here? And

1:02:22

what's pushing you on to keep going? And

1:02:24

Felix is saying, where do we go next

1:02:27

on the Jimmy Anderson journey? I don't know.

1:02:29

I've gone way past where

1:02:32

I thought I would get to

1:02:34

or achieve more than I ever thought I would. But

1:02:37

I still love the game. And I feel like

1:02:40

if I'm good enough to play for England, then I'll keep trying

1:02:42

to push for a spot in that England team. If

1:02:45

it's not England, then it's Lancashire. If it's

1:02:47

not Lancashire, then it's Burnley. I will try

1:02:49

and play cricket as long as possible because

1:02:51

I absolutely love it. I love the nuance

1:02:53

in the game, the little skills that we

1:02:55

talked about, the leg cutter. Swinging

1:02:58

the ball for me is one of the... I

1:03:02

don't want to say it turns me on, but... It's

1:03:07

all right. I called you

1:03:09

a beauty over that, so it's fine. But

1:03:11

honestly, when the ball comes out of the hand, then you

1:03:13

know it's come out perfectly. You should have put your ball

1:03:15

now. It's going to go one way or the other. Do

1:03:18

you want to do it? No, no. You

1:03:20

want a moment? No, I'm good. But

1:03:23

for me, that is something that I

1:03:25

think that I will continue to do

1:03:27

when I'm 70, because I love just

1:03:29

seeing how that ball moves. 70, wow.

1:03:32

If I get there. Yeah. But

1:03:34

we're now... It's sort of annoying because we're now going

1:03:36

to watch you bowling in a very different way now with

1:03:39

you being aroused every time you...

1:03:43

Oh. Every time you... Okay.

1:03:46

Anyway, Faudy, does cricket turn you

1:03:48

on? I wasn't expecting

1:03:50

that question. We weren't expecting

1:03:52

his answer. I

1:03:55

wasn't. I wasn't. This

1:04:02

is the place, to be honest, it's the Calgary L For

1:04:07

me, my love for cricket grew

1:04:09

in a unique circumstance My dad played

1:04:11

for England in one of the series

1:04:14

In the Ashes 8687 when I was four months

1:04:16

old And for

1:04:18

me, I had a playground

1:04:20

of being Trem Bridge I think one

1:04:22

thing that's quite unique about cricket clubs

1:04:25

in your leagues And Nottinghamshire

1:04:27

for me was As soon as I walked in

1:04:29

the gate, Dad and Mum could leave me The

1:04:31

stewards knew I was in and they wouldn't

1:04:33

let me out And I could just roam,

1:04:36

I played cricket under the old scoreboard Float

1:04:38

around, nip in for tea, come back out,

1:04:40

play on the outfield And my

1:04:42

love for cricket was probably

1:04:44

in my blood through my family But also

1:04:46

just that feeling of bowling, hitting

1:04:49

a ball, taking a catch Is something

1:04:51

that lives inside of you When

1:04:55

you talk about wanting kids to get into the game and

1:04:57

play the game Get them to catch a

1:04:59

ball, get them to hit a six The feeling

1:05:01

of taking a wicket And that's

1:05:03

something that grew with me from

1:05:05

a really young age And I

1:05:08

think once you get that feeling, it becomes quite

1:05:10

addictive And you want it more, and you want

1:05:12

to play And one thing that

1:05:14

Baz, his head coach of England, has come in and

1:05:16

said Try and take yourself back to

1:05:18

being a little kid And on a Saturday morning, what

1:05:21

was the first thing you did? You rung to your

1:05:23

curtains, open them and pray for a blue sky Because

1:05:25

you wanted to play cricket And

1:05:27

sometimes when you're playing a professional

1:05:29

game You can get knocked off

1:05:31

the road And sometimes you don't

1:05:34

mind a bit of rain Best time, but Baz

1:05:37

has brought that back into the energy of the

1:05:39

changes Take yourself back to that feeling in your

1:05:41

stomach When it was a blue sky in the

1:05:43

summer and you could play cricket And

1:05:46

I had that from being a young kid through

1:05:49

unique circumstances My dad played

1:05:51

for England, but I loved every

1:05:53

minute And now as a fan, I

1:05:55

love watching it I just love that

1:05:57

feeling of tuning in, seeing wickets fall

1:06:00

and great

1:06:02

cricket face. Esha, do you ever

1:06:04

have the desire to still play? When

1:06:07

was Vos any plays? A long

1:06:09

time ago, yeah. I think I've played

1:06:11

twice since I retired. How

1:06:13

did it go? It was painful. I think

1:06:16

one of those times was with you. Oh, the

1:06:18

Telenders TMS thing? Oh, I

1:06:20

don't remember it, which means it didn't go that way. No,

1:06:24

you got Pfeiffer. No, I don't think so. That

1:06:26

wasn't my idea. But how do you, in your

1:06:28

role that you have now, how

1:06:33

do you see the game developing and

1:06:35

how do you feel like you're going to

1:06:37

control people falling in love with it? What's

1:06:39

your role now? I think, like all of

1:06:41

us that are in broadcast, it's actually pretty cool.

1:06:44

You have the opportunity to

1:06:46

bring the viewers something

1:06:49

in a completely different way. I

1:06:52

obviously love test coverage. I love what

1:06:54

that does. I love the innovations, and

1:06:56

I love being able to bring the

1:06:58

viewer closer to what's

1:07:01

happening in the middle. In

1:07:03

Australia, it's actually pretty cool because you get to

1:07:05

speak to the players during the game. So

1:07:08

that's a new kind of innovation that's

1:07:10

never been done before. With

1:07:12

the 100 being able to work with the BBC

1:07:15

on something completely fresh and new and exciting,

1:07:18

that's what I love about it. I love being part

1:07:20

of a team playing, and now I'm part of a

1:07:22

team in broadcast. So

1:07:25

yeah, I guess that's kind of how

1:07:27

I've been able to move on. Before we wrap up,

1:07:29

I just want to ask you, Mark, as the president

1:07:31

of the MCC, why do you still want to do

1:07:33

it? Why did you want

1:07:35

to do that role? And what do you feel like you can

1:07:37

give? The role as president or the broadcasting? Well,

1:07:39

both, I guess. You do both. You can do

1:07:42

both, brilliantly. But

1:07:44

why do you still want to do it? Why do you still want

1:07:46

to be in the game? Well, it's

1:07:48

a great game. You know, I wrote

1:07:50

a book and I call it a beautiful game.

1:07:52

It's a beautiful game to watch. It's a people

1:07:54

game. It's a community. There are

1:07:56

good people in cricket. Really, I wouldn't have met more than

1:07:58

two or three years ago. bad people in my

1:08:01

whole life in cricket. There are

1:08:03

some difficult people but not

1:08:06

bad people. And I think

1:08:08

it's a uniting force. And I think,

1:08:11

you know, I'm wearing the chance to shine tight

1:08:13

tonight, which I'm enormously proud of

1:08:15

because of its ability to

1:08:17

unite children and give them hope. The

1:08:20

thrill of cricket won't ever leave me. Whatever role

1:08:22

it is that I play, it's sort

1:08:24

of in me, as I said a moment ago.

1:08:26

That spirit is inside me. And so

1:08:29

you talked about the start of summer. That's quite

1:08:31

right. I mean, the start of summer is exciting

1:08:33

because it's in all of our spirits.

1:08:35

And we can't wait for the first game and

1:08:37

the first performances. And we'll

1:08:39

love it when he knocks off some bout and

1:08:41

when someone else smacks it through extra cover. You

1:08:43

know, we'll love it again, just like we did

1:08:45

last summer. It won't change much. The formats don't

1:08:47

matter. Don't get carried away. It's a game of

1:08:49

bat and ball. The pitch is good and

1:08:52

the contest between bat and ball is even.

1:08:54

It'll be a joy to watch. It's really

1:08:56

not that much more complicated. The

1:08:58

perfect place to finish. The

1:09:26

entertainment. The

1:09:30

superstar. Welcome

1:09:33

to the Planet Premier League

1:09:35

podcast. I'm Bob

1:09:38

Chapman and every week, Sesvak the

1:09:52

season is a failure in

1:09:54

the league. Planet Premier League.

1:09:56

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