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1:02

BBC Sounds, music, radio,

1:04

podcasts. Hello and welcome

1:06

to Terlenders. Thank you for having us on Terlenders.

1:10

This is Greg James alongside Felix

1:12

White and matching

1:14

Tendulkar. Hello. And

1:18

somewhere in Manchester we have Jimmy Anderson. Jimmy, where are

1:20

you? I'm at Old Trafford, the real Old Trafford. Are

1:23

you at the Jimmy Anderson end? Always. No,

1:25

I'm at the opposite end actually, Brian Statham

1:27

end. He likes to

1:29

sort of just look across at it. Yeah.

1:33

Can I just quickly say, for the benefit of the tape and

1:35

the listeners at home, Jimmy quite poetically and

1:37

cinematically has eaten a banana while he explains

1:39

that. Mm. Is that

1:41

because you're busy training today? Yeah,

1:44

training, been to the gym. Is

1:46

this because you're showing off to our guest? It's

1:52

the first time he's ever said that. Pointless

1:54

because the contracts are done, isn't it? The

1:57

contracts are done. He's eating fruit. the

2:00

gym who knows who the guest is. Yeah, I've

2:02

actually been hitting a really good line of length

2:04

this morning. I'm

2:06

actually feeling a really good rhythm. I actually feel really ready

2:08

for India. Yeah, feel ready for selection. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

2:12

we welcome a very special guest. It's a long time

2:14

coming. We have wanted to get this man on the

2:16

podcast for a very long time. It is the managing

2:19

director of the England men's cricket team, AKA

2:21

Jimmy Anderson's boss. Rob Key, welcome

2:23

to Fair Lenders. Morning.

2:27

How are you? Morning. We're really

2:29

good. We're we're excited. Actually, what

2:31

I should say is welcome to

2:33

Jimmy Anderson's appraisal. Is

2:40

that what we're doing? This is what the podcast is.

2:42

We haven't told Jimmy this, but actually this is a

2:44

this is a 45 minute detailed

2:47

nuance analysis of

2:50

the last 12 months. Anyway, Rob, welcome to Fair

2:52

Lenders. We've been wanting to get you on for

2:54

so long. And can I just clear up something

2:57

to begin with? You are a Fair Lenders

2:59

listener, correct? Yeah, although, you know, I'm so

3:01

busy now. I've got this job. I don't

3:03

get to do anything. But I used to

3:05

try and get what was it when I

3:07

was a pundit? What you have your spicy

3:09

and all that time. Yeah. I

3:11

get that in occasionally. You know,

3:13

you never ever once got any credit for it. But

3:16

every now and again, I do. That

3:18

was the beauty of it. The spicy era. Nor do

3:20

I want credit for that. Well,

3:24

it's it's good to have you on. And

3:26

why don't we just kick off, first of

3:28

all, with with Jimmy telling you, telling Rob

3:31

how he is feeling, how is it? How is

3:33

it coming out the hand? How's the team? What's

3:35

the atmosphere like? What's the people

3:38

excited for India? I've

3:41

not seen anyone this year yet, but I

3:44

think everyone will be excited because it's been ages

3:46

since we played test cricket. So I'm just I'm

3:48

buzzing for it. Wasn't to get away some

3:50

warm weather. Really seem

3:52

a friendly tracks in India as well. So I look

3:54

forward to them. All

3:57

right. We've only picked one season. Rob,

4:04

are you going to be travelling out to

4:06

India? When do you go out there if

4:08

so? So now you go out there camp.

4:11

I'm going to join that for the last

4:13

few days and I'm going to do the

4:15

first test in Hyderabad. So I'm going out

4:17

on the 15th or something like that. So

4:20

you just for, it'd be a morale boosting

4:22

visit just as the hardship of the camp

4:24

they're going

4:27

to have in Abu Dhabi. I'll just be there to go and lighten

4:29

the mood when I get there. Did I

4:32

read the other day that it's in danger of not

4:34

being televised or has that all been solved now? Them

4:36

sold the rights here, have they, when I was bought

4:38

them? Yeah, but that happens I reckon every year. So

4:40

when I was a pundit, I

4:42

tell you, we did one game. So whenever

4:45

you play against India, they sort of, the

4:47

rights negotiation goes on and on and it

4:49

drags onto the last minute. And

4:51

this isn't technically right, but it's as

4:53

I understand it's effectively like flicking a

4:55

switch to the satellite and then

4:58

Sky or whoever it is, we'll get the

5:00

feet. We did it once, myself and Ian Ward,

5:03

and I can't remember the other guests, we were

5:05

just waiting to go one day getting, and

5:07

you saw here in your ear, it's like, okay, we were

5:10

going on air in three minutes. And

5:13

then you heard the producer sort of swear and

5:15

say, we're not getting the rights. But

5:17

this whole build up, you know, Ian Ward, we

5:19

had half an hour of what's going to happen

5:21

and we couldn't get the rights and Bumble and

5:24

Nick Knight were in India. They

5:26

weren't allowed in the ground because we didn't have the

5:28

rights. And we were sort of trying to do

5:30

it over the phone, you know, like

5:32

on TV or radio, whatever, when everything

5:34

goes wrong, we have no pictures, nothing.

5:36

And Ian Ward is just flying

5:39

by the seat of his pants, just asking

5:41

question after question until we can sort of

5:43

come up with some, and I

5:45

can't remember exactly what happened, but that happens

5:47

nearly every single time with the rights deals.

5:49

Like, that's

5:52

incredible. That last minute when everyone's

5:54

there waiting to broadcast, the

5:57

right literally, and that's where we're all.

6:00

was so good because he just sort

6:02

of went, right, you know, and just

6:04

all your plans, right, we're going to

6:06

go to the ground and we'll speak to Bumble and we'll

6:08

do this and we'll do that. Just

6:11

completely gone. Yeah. And I'm

6:13

just sitting there sweating and

6:15

think, oh, here we go. It's great. You know,

6:17

that happens every time. Welcome to the cricket. We

6:19

can't show it to you. Okay. Yeah. But we

6:21

can talk about it. It's cricket thing ever. If

6:23

there's a man who can fly by the seat

6:25

of his pants, I imagine it's Ian Ward. Oh

6:27

yeah. It's like a sort of, I feel like

6:30

he's actually sort of like a James Bond figure

6:32

really. He'd be a good James Bond. I think

6:34

cause he's so unfazed by anything just

6:36

sort of stands there hand in his pocket.

6:38

Yeah. Well, don't worry about it guys. We'll

6:40

just fill it with whatever. Just

6:42

bring, bring some of the, I've got some guests lined up. Just bring them

6:44

on leaning on a fence. I've just pictured

6:47

him as always in that always leaning on a fence.

6:50

Maybe with a drink in one hand. Yeah. Well, maybe,

6:52

maybe a fag on just a fag. I got out

6:54

of his mouth. So

6:57

Rob, let's, um, I

7:00

want to talk, I want to do a bit of

7:02

an appraisal of, of, of your job actually. Well, because

7:05

it was an extraordinary thing when we found out that you were going

7:07

to take this job. We know we knew

7:09

you as Rob Key, the man that could hit some

7:11

of the biggest sixties you've ever seen. Also

7:13

Rob Key, the man who got such

7:15

a, such a sort of roasting in

7:18

the sky box. And then you become Rob Key

7:20

sort of king of cricket. And that's an amazing

7:22

journey. And there was, there was an interview that

7:24

I heard with you, I guess it was about

7:26

a year ago where you said that you

7:28

didn't feel like you did enough for English cricket when

7:30

you were playing. So you wanted to go in and

7:33

do something as a, as an administrator. How do you

7:35

think that's going? Do you feel like you've made a

7:37

difference so far and are you enjoying it? Yeah. I

7:39

mean, you're sort of making me sound like a bit

7:41

more of a saint than what I actually am. I

7:43

get paid for the job as well. It's not completely

7:45

selfless. But

7:48

I did, you know, like Jimmy's played for

7:50

England more than anyone, isn't he? And done

7:52

more for English cricket. And I always felt

7:55

I'm fulfilled in that. And a lot of that, my fault,

7:57

to be honest. So, you know, like

7:59

NASA and who I used to sit there

8:01

arguing with all the time. They'd done their

8:03

bit for English cricket, they'd sort of been

8:05

in the gun with the media and everything

8:07

else. Now they've had their fill of it,

8:09

whereas I didn't feel like I'd

8:12

done that. And I also thought,

8:15

what's the worst that can happen? We weren't playing

8:17

particularly well at that point. They'd been through COVID

8:19

and everything. It started, I thought it was the

8:21

easiest job in the world and then World Cup

8:23

happened and it got a bit tougher, I suppose.

8:25

But that's life, isn't it? Joe, it's really interesting

8:27

just to hear you say that, Rob, actually, in

8:30

my head, is that when you first came into

8:32

the job, you did some really beautiful interviews actually

8:34

about taking the tension out of playing for cricketers.

8:36

So if you're tense, for example, and you're trying

8:38

to catch the ball, it's harder to do it and

8:40

just having a lot of ease. Then it just struck

8:42

me as I heard you say that, but it's almost

8:44

like your approach to the job because you would never

8:46

have dreamed of being in that position. So almost like

8:48

that lack of tension and approach has probably helped you

8:51

as well. Do you know what I mean? It's going

8:53

from inside and outside. And

8:55

I'll tell you what, these guys are under so

8:57

much pressure anyway. In

9:00

whatever you do, there's so many similarities. If you've got

9:02

kids and you're like, catch the ball, catch the ball,

9:04

you've got to catch this, don't drop it. You

9:07

just start to tense up and that's the

9:10

same in cricket. Then all

9:12

you ever look for is someone who believes

9:14

in the same sort of

9:16

things really. You sort of think, well, I've

9:18

got a view on how things should be done. Then

9:21

you just look for like-minded people and that's where

9:23

I was lucky that Brendan and

9:25

then Stokes, who I had no idea what Stokes

9:27

was going to be like, I just had a

9:30

hunch. But they're brilliant at that.

9:32

They're the masters of it really. They do it

9:34

better than anyone. And that's the key. There's

9:37

always a thing, whenever England struggle, everyone thinks, they're

9:39

not trying this soft or they don't want it

9:41

enough. All this, we do it with every sport

9:43

or they don't care. It's like, of course they

9:45

care. They care too

9:48

much. And that's

9:50

what those guys do brilliantly.

9:52

They just relax

9:54

really talented people, but

9:57

they don't make it. They also- So

10:00

hold into account if they're not doing the things they want

10:02

them to do. That's it. I

10:04

think you and me would have thrived in

10:06

the Stokes-McCullum key era. I wouldn't

10:08

have thrived. No, that's what we needed. You'd just be able

10:11

to play cricket, that's the thing. Yeah, but I'm talking

10:13

about the mental side of it. Mentally, yeah. Mentally,

10:15

we would have been your best player. Exactly.

10:17

But it does actually permeate the outside. Because

10:19

like we said this before, like, Rob, you

10:22

won't have heard it because you've been too

10:24

busy. But we have talked about

10:26

it before when outside of cricket, that

10:28

is inspiring though, you think as a musician or anything

10:30

in your job, like, oh, what is the 20% I'm

10:32

more capable of than

10:34

I thought I was if I had a different

10:36

attitude towards it? It's a very tail end of

10:38

attitude to life. And I'm not saying that Baz

10:41

ball actually stole or borrowed from tail end of

10:43

the attitude of like, don't worry about it. It's

10:45

just cricket, just having a nice time. But you

10:47

know, maybe there is some truth in that. You

10:51

mentioned the World Cup, Rob. That was undoubtedly

10:54

a low point since you started the job. How have

10:56

you managed to sort of... Do you mind me doing

10:58

this? Yeah, yeah. World Cup. I'm

11:01

sorry. Yeah. How

11:03

have you managed to assess the situation?

11:06

To either wait. Laughing. Even I've been

11:08

laughing. Even I've been playing that. You

11:12

just run one note. Rob,

11:16

it's a sad note for the World Cup campaign. Yeah.

11:21

Sorry, anyway. Should

11:24

have left it at the first one. How

11:27

have you assessed the wreckage

11:30

of the World Cup campaign? Well,

11:33

I think ultimately, we've

11:35

got some very good players in there. And we didn't

11:37

play anywhere near as well as we can do. And

11:39

everyone else got better. Yeah. And

11:41

you look at things and you think like, if you

11:44

haven't got... One thing English cricket

11:46

does well, it produces good players. And if that's

11:48

the case, then you're all right. And it's just

11:50

sort of unlocking them and finding that bit. The

11:53

World Cup, in the end, it's going to be

11:56

two, three months. And

11:58

two, three poor months. in what's been a

12:01

great almost six, seven, eight years

12:03

of whiteball cricket in England. And because of

12:05

what Owen Morgan did, we've got so many

12:07

good players coming through. So I don't think,

12:09

you know, I hope, touch word, I don't

12:11

think it's going to last for a long time.

12:13

This, you know, that that last couple of months,

12:15

it just requires a few people getting it, finding

12:18

form. Just but was probably the

12:20

best whiteball cricket or England's ever had, if

12:22

not one of the

12:24

best the world's ever seen. Amen. He

12:26

wasn't in great form in that. So

12:28

I think it's not going

12:30

to take much. People will turn that form

12:32

around. And, you know, I'm optimistic about, you

12:35

know, whiteball cricket going forward. It was a shame,

12:37

wasn't it? Because we were so on a high

12:39

from the ashes and the sort of conclusion with

12:41

Stuart Broad and everything. And it was just a

12:43

bit of a downer. So why don't we why

12:45

don't we wind back to the summer? Because I

12:47

don't feel like we've actually heard from you, Rob,

12:49

about the about the ashes. We haven't heard what

12:51

your take on it was. What were you? Well,

12:54

did you find it as intense as everyone else watching?

12:56

Did you did you manage to see

12:58

as much as you wanted to do because it was

13:01

all crammed in? What was your take on it all?

13:03

Well, I thought it was one of the best series

13:05

that I've ever watched, really. And I watched every

13:07

ball of it pretty much now, with the exception

13:09

of nipping out for a coffee or something. I've

13:11

always thought of it. I would

13:13

sit in I always get people because no one

13:15

ever thinks about the managing director, you know, everyone's

13:18

worrying about everyone else. We do. We think about

13:20

we think about you all the

13:22

time, Rob. I just feel so done by

13:24

but, you know, so they ended up

13:26

at Edgbaston, I was in the

13:28

CEO's office and Freddie Flintoff came to sit

13:31

with me. And we like you

13:33

can't look out onto the ground. So you can sort

13:35

of you'd hear a cheer and there's a delay on

13:37

TV. So that crawlies first of all, we just hear

13:39

a cheer and we don't know what it is. And

13:41

then all of a sudden you see the and then

13:43

by the office was like

13:45

a pick and mix. So we both

13:47

just sat there eating fudge and sherbet

13:49

and sherbet and

13:53

then and you sort of ride in the emotion of

13:55

it. And then I said, you know, that's the sweet

13:57

high. I

14:00

know. You know, like when you're trying to be

14:02

good as well, and you don't want to eat everything, and you

14:04

just sit in there thinking, Oh, I'll have it one more. Before

14:07

you know, one more dip down many refreshes.

14:11

So Freddie and I would sit there and we

14:13

were just sort of, you end up riding the

14:15

emotion of it, because you don't know what the

14:17

hell's gonna happen. And that sort of went on.

14:19

And we did it every ground headingly, we were

14:22

sort of in the CEO's office again, we had

14:24

a great view, Mark Woodbould, the speed of life.

14:26

And you and you just, I never

14:28

really got nervous until that

14:31

headingly game. Because then when we were

14:33

chasing, and I think Harry Brooke got

14:35

out, and you just say, Oh, please,

14:37

come on. Because I just thought two

14:39

nil wasn't fair. You know, and

14:42

it was and I'm not going to want to get into this

14:44

whole thing where you know, the odds come back and all that,

14:46

but you just sort of thought, hang on, there's

14:48

no way we should be three nil down. Oh,

14:50

yeah, play such good cricket three nil wouldn't

14:52

be a fair scoreline. So in hybrid, we

14:54

usually talk about that hookshot, where he sort

14:57

of played that shot outside of Stump and

14:59

holds out. Yeah, get caught where

15:01

to get caught cover or didn't

15:03

just good. Yeah, please don't

15:06

you know, there can't be another twist every

15:08

time you think you're gonna win all of

15:10

a sudden the game. And

15:13

I was

15:15

probably riding that emotion as well. Anyway, when

15:17

we won that, I then thought,

15:20

you know, that was, yeah, that

15:22

Australian team is as good a team

15:24

bother probably showing one side of the

15:27

early of the early 2000s. I mean, you

15:29

see what they're doing now. I thought what

15:31

these guys did Jimmy and, you

15:33

know, all of them back the batsman

15:35

the bowlers, I thought it was unbelievable

15:38

cricket, to be honest, it was great. Yeah,

15:41

what do you think, Jim, how do they measure

15:43

up to the great Australian side that you faced?

15:45

Question. Definitely. I don't think they're quite as good

15:47

as that team from the early

15:50

2000s. I mean, play against them in Australia. In

15:53

like you, the series, you played

15:55

Robin, 2002, three, that

15:57

they were a phenomenal team, you know,

15:59

with Ponting. Warren, McGrath, Hayden,

16:02

you know they're just ridiculous team. But I

16:04

think they're right up there because I think

16:06

now with the likes of Cam

16:08

Green coming in, you know they've got

16:10

that and Mitch Marsh as well, two

16:13

world-class all-rounders that actually balance the side

16:15

really well and obviously they've

16:17

got quality with with baton ball Warner just

16:19

retiring but you know Smith

16:21

Labasheh and two of the best in the world at

16:23

the moment and Lyon is someone who probably goes under

16:25

the radar. I know he only didn't play after Lords

16:28

but he's someone who did a great job for them

16:30

or does a great job for them and

16:32

sort of goes and you know because he's no

16:34

frills off, he doesn't really you know doesn't have

16:37

the magic balls and whatever but he does such

16:39

a good job and then I

16:41

think the three seamers are probably potentially the

16:43

best bowling attack in the world

16:45

at the minute. Maybe India come close but

16:48

Stark, Hazelwood, Cummings I think are

16:51

fantastic. Rob, I think we know how Jimmy

16:53

feels about this from a playing perspective I

16:55

think because it's so tightly packed but from

16:57

a like fan issue the way those games

16:59

were stacked so close together was

17:01

so intense. It's the most like

17:03

intense sporting experience from a visual

17:05

perspective I've ever had and when

17:08

Jimmy reels off those players from

17:10

the past it's interesting because I

17:12

can remember more, it's probably more about long-term memory but

17:14

I can remember more about those players and what happened

17:17

this summer and I wonder sometimes whether it was

17:19

because it was so exciting and so

17:21

close together there wasn't enough time to

17:23

process the events. Do you know what I mean?

17:26

They were sort of so stacked together so how

17:29

did it feel to you? Did it feel like

17:31

it worked? Games being really close or

17:33

it could have gone across the whole summer? Well

17:35

you just I think Brendan said at the end

17:38

and Jimmy probably would disagree with you he just

17:40

sort of wanted to go again he was saying

17:42

it'd be great to have a load more tests

17:44

and I'll think about it. But I think the

17:46

good thing about it was it was that it's

17:48

sort of there was nothing else going on.

17:51

Yeah there wasn't. It didn't feel like there was anything

17:53

else going on so everyone was talking about and then

17:55

when Johnny got stumped or whatever or run out or

17:57

whatever it was like you got prime ministers talking about

18:00

about it. You know, it just

18:02

felt like it captured the imagination. I think

18:04

that's what you want to do in cricket.

18:06

You know, there's so much competition now. The

18:08

fact that everyone was talking about cricket, I

18:10

thought was brilliant. Like friends of mine that

18:12

can't bear the game, they were watching it.

18:14

They were talking about it. And

18:16

I think that's what I love what these guys

18:18

do is that they've made it entertaining. And I

18:20

always think like the world cup final

18:23

in 2019, I was at that game was

18:26

the best end to a game of cricket ever.

18:28

But actually for a lot of that game, it

18:30

wasn't great to watch. It was quite a turdie.

18:32

Yeah, on like, you know,

18:36

on a pitch that was, you know, it wasn't

18:38

great viewing at times, but it was a brilliant

18:40

end. Yeah, I remember we did the watch along

18:42

on Sky and I was sort of watching along

18:44

at the start being off, this is a bit,

18:47

you know, I say turdie again. But anyway, whereas

18:50

the World Cup final in football was

18:52

like 90 minutes plus of pure entertainment.

18:54

And I thought the ashes was

18:58

with the odd exception of the odd sort

19:00

of slow passage of play was literally just

19:03

thrilling from beginning to end.

19:06

And like we didn't get we got to

19:08

after tea on the last day. And

19:11

yet again, all results were possible.

19:13

We didn't know who was going to win or you

19:15

know, who's if we're going to draw the ashes. And

19:18

I think that makes for great. That's what sport needs

19:20

for all the talk of everything. For just

19:23

needs great players going against each other. And

19:25

you don't know the outcome. Yeah, yeah. How

19:27

do we protect test cricket, Rob? Well, yeah,

19:29

great. How do we make sure it is

19:32

still good? Because it seems to be like

19:34

Australia, England, India, and then the rest of

19:36

them in it a little bit in terms

19:38

of money and, and ambition.

19:41

Yeah, and that I mean, you sort of

19:43

in this job, you sort of hear a

19:45

lot more of the conversations going on behind

19:47

the scenes. So you, so when South Africa

19:49

don't take a full strength team and what's

19:51

going on at the moment, you sort of

19:53

see you've seen that coming for quite

19:55

some time. That's why we change contracts as

19:57

quickly as we did because you just a

20:00

time when you just basically need your

20:02

best players to be playing for England

20:04

and you need them to be

20:06

committed to England, which they are, and we're

20:09

very lucky that, you know, we can

20:11

look after our players much better than other countries

20:13

can. But the key

20:15

is making sure the best players are playing as much

20:17

as possible or every time. And

20:20

then test cricket now needs to have

20:22

windows. You know, like, so

20:24

like what you're saying in that two-month window for the

20:26

Ashes, that can be a window. You can have one

20:28

at Christmas time whenever that is. You've

20:31

got all of these franchise competitions like

20:33

the IPL. You've got a world white

20:36

ball event every year. Well,

20:38

test cricket needs a window for people where you

20:40

can't play anything else. And then

20:42

the rest of us, England, Australia, India

20:44

and the ICC in particular, need to

20:46

look after these other countries, you

20:49

know, so that they because they

20:51

can't afford to have really good

20:53

domestic systems. And then my last thing

20:55

is I get off my soapbox and I don't say

20:57

I'm right about any of this. We've

21:00

got to stop being snobby about test cricket.

21:02

So, you know, we have this new that, oh, you can

21:04

only play test cricket if you play in 150 Red Bull

21:07

games or if you play in a certain way. No,

21:10

no, just pick anyone. Pick your most talented players.

21:13

West Indies have Nicholas Corin. I

21:16

don't care if he plays any Red Bull cricket.

21:18

Get him in your test team, you know, just

21:20

playing whenever he can. Let him find a way.

21:23

You know, I feel like I've just ran. No,

21:25

that makes a lot of noise and that correlates

21:27

with Bashir's selection as well, which I think is

21:29

exciting. Having someone who's played not that much county

21:31

cricket come in and that's an exciting thing. But

21:33

Rob, it's interesting you mentioned that because a

21:35

number of years ago I was pitching to tell

21:37

enders listeners a way that we

21:40

might make test cricket work in this small

21:42

window that you've just spoken of. Can you just

21:44

give me one minute of your time to pitch this?

21:47

Just hear me out. I didn't realise you're sort of

21:49

waiting, you're lining me up for your line here. Yes.

21:51

Right, that's what I've been told. Exactly. We've been tag

21:53

teaming this. And you have fallen into the trap, my

21:55

friend. And we're about to put you through a table

21:57

like the Dudley boys. Okay,

22:00

got that? Greg set the table

22:03

up please. Okay, get the table. So, Rob,

22:05

the same way you have a World Cup

22:07

with limited over teams, but all countries are

22:10

in one place for two months, eh? Why

22:12

could you not, and I'm being genuinely serious,

22:14

why could you not have a world test

22:17

championship over the course of two months? Let's

22:19

just say in England in the summer, Jimmy's

22:22

wincing already, but Jimmy, hear me

22:24

out as well, where you would

22:26

have on the rankings one to

22:29

eight quarterfinals, semifinals and a final

22:31

where everybody is in England,

22:33

for example, in the summer, and

22:36

all the quarterfinals happen simultaneously.

22:39

So you have like, Sky would be

22:41

amazing, you'd have Edgerton, Headingley, Old Trafford,

22:43

Lords or whatever, all the teams playing,

22:45

you're flicking between each and every one,

22:47

two match series, the whole thing's done in

22:50

two months, everybody in the world

22:52

is watching test cricket in that place, in

22:54

a country where everyone's going to all the games. Why

22:57

has that never been tried and do you

22:59

think that's in any way realistic? Well,

23:03

it sounds like a logistical nightmare, isn't

23:05

it? Like trying to organize all of

23:07

that in one go. I

23:09

don't know. Well, it's the same way you could, but

23:11

it's a nightmare to have a World Cup anyway, isn't

23:13

it? So why couldn't you just have Pakistan and Australia?

23:15

Yeah, but it's only one day, isn't it? Like your

23:17

test match last five days. But

23:20

you have a county championship happening, where four-day

23:22

games happening all over the country at the

23:24

same time, nobody is watching that. Yeah,

23:28

all right, bad example, let's get out of our nose. Need

23:31

a better example? I

23:34

think the thing about test cricket that I love,

23:36

and it's what I don't like about the two

23:38

test match series, is

23:41

that the fact that Ashes is five test matches

23:43

is brilliant, because you see like, you see the

23:45

bowlers getting one over on a bat when he's

23:48

got a farm working out, it's

23:50

the story that builds throughout the

23:52

whole summer, is what makes a

23:54

test series, I think. And if you just had it as

23:56

a, it's just a World Cup

23:59

where you play. like what two test

24:01

matches again, I can't even work

24:03

out what you're trying to say.

24:05

You have like, you

24:07

have, this is how we do things when I'm in these meetings actually, when

24:14

people say stuff like, right, just

24:16

explain exactly how day one looks. Okay,

24:18

brilliant. How does the first round look?

24:20

No, firstly, can I thank you for

24:23

your opportunity to put it forward in

24:25

a simple way. Also,

24:27

is Ian Ward presenting all the grounds in

24:29

a helicopter and floating in? He's going back

24:31

and forth, yeah. They

24:33

could stagger the start time so that Ian Ward could

24:35

do all the bits. Thank you for making that simple

24:38

for you. So the simple thing is that Ian Ward

24:40

presents all the games at the same time simultaneously from

24:42

all grounds in a helicopter. Different camera with each game.

24:44

See if you're right, it's giving away five seconds. Okay,

24:47

no, I'll be actually seriously right. Day

24:49

one, first and

24:51

eighth, seeds in the world rankings,

24:54

whatever, play each other. Second

24:56

place, seventh, third place, sixth. So let's say

24:59

that England versus who? West

25:02

Indies. Let's say England, West Indies. So England, West Indies

25:04

are playing at the Oval. Australia

25:07

are playing in Pakistan, wherever

25:09

it is, Lourdes. They're

25:11

all happening at the same time. They're

25:14

two match series that all happen at exactly the

25:16

same time across the country. So when you're watching

25:18

it, you can flick like red button between all

25:20

the games. So

25:23

it's like 15 days is that what that takes? How long

25:25

does that take? 12, 13, 14. 10 days, yeah.

25:28

I know, but you're not going to go back to back,

25:30

are you? Yeah, so that's two

25:32

weeks. Okay, yeah.

25:36

You've got two weeks left. Yeah, so. They're

25:41

one match games. They're one match

25:43

games by first court finals. Let me shock you, they're

25:45

one match games. So that's one week. So you go

25:47

straight to the finals. Right.

25:50

That's three weeks. Final two

25:52

weeks. It's done in about seven weeks. She's

25:55

watched her f***ing World Cup one day

25:58

while Cup was done in. I

26:00

don't know why you are laughing. It's better

26:02

than what we just had. What

26:05

I've described is better than what just happened.

26:07

In a meeting with the management director of

26:09

England, you need to keep your head. Rob,

26:11

I'm going to email this over to you

26:13

in a more... It's important that you don't

26:15

start swearing at ECB management. Yeah, yeah. Send

26:18

it in a PowerPoint, I enjoy it. How

26:20

does your open and visible meetings go?

26:22

Oh. It sounds like... Oh. So

26:25

you're aware, you're aware that there are

26:27

some people that are nipping at your

26:29

heels, Rob, for those top jobs in

26:32

English cricket. Yeah, so you're aware

26:34

that Felix and I, the co-chairs of Over the Mid-Schools,

26:36

which actually brings me on. I'm glad you brought that

26:38

up because... Players aren't. As you... As

26:40

you... The players may or may not have been aware of it.

26:42

Yeah, aren't aware. You brought

26:45

up... Ask your lane, if anything. You

26:47

brought up players moving between formats and,

26:49

you know, relaxing those sorts of regulations

26:51

and contracts allowing it. What

26:53

would you say if we were to offer Jimmy Anson a million

26:55

pounds to miss a test match because he

26:58

is playing for Over the Mid-Schools next summer? I

27:00

would just... I would just have to say yes

27:02

to that. That would... That would...

27:06

I would say... I would tell

27:08

you one of... That would go down at one of

27:10

the great moves in sport, I think. You

27:14

heard the man, Jimmy. You heard the man for a month.

27:17

I couldn't say no to that. But, I mean, I

27:20

would be... You know, I

27:22

would just be so glad to see

27:24

Jimmy get the opportunity. Yeah,

27:27

great. While

27:29

we're on Jimmy's opportunities, what's his...

27:32

What's your plan for him between now and

27:35

India? Well, I was sort of hoping that

27:37

Jimmy was going to retire, but he's just

27:39

won't go away and talk to him. He's

27:41

just going on and on. My

27:46

plan for Jimmy... I feel that's quite

27:48

awkward. I was joking. I

27:51

know, that's just doing a podcast for Jimmy. That's what it's

27:53

like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's my

27:56

plan for Jimmy between now? I haven't really got... OK,

27:58

what's Jimmy's goal for 2024? Am

28:00

I asking him that? I'm assuming that. I

28:02

hope it's to win in India and get

28:04

loads of wickets and the same against the

28:06

West Indies and Sri Lanka. And then obviously

28:09

he can play win the 100 with the

28:11

over invincibles. That's an official

28:13

goal. Thank you very much. I've

28:15

got nothing to add. I'm just compiling my email notes.

28:18

Felix is actually shaken by the chat that

28:20

you had with the managing director of the

28:22

Men's Cricket. I was thinking, I'm

28:25

matching Tendulkar sat to my left and I

28:27

know that all tennis listeners will want to

28:29

witness a conversation between matching Tendulkar and the

28:31

head of English cricket. I'm

28:33

just wondering whether he's got anything. Yeah, I've got

28:36

a little something. Are you aware of matching, Rob?

28:38

Yes, yes. He's not aware of

28:40

matching. I think you have

28:43

games as well when you play against TMS and stuff

28:45

like that. That's right. So you're aware of matching. Okay,

28:47

well, matching meet the managing director of

28:49

England's cricket. Oh, Rob. I've

28:51

got a little game for you. Well, it's not really game. It's more of

28:53

a kind of, I don't know what you call it, but... I'm hoping into

28:55

your subconscious. But if you don't know what you're calling it, we're not going

28:57

to know. Well, it can be a bit

29:00

more direct. In your role as

29:02

a decision maker, as an answer engine,

29:04

a prince of policy, you're at the

29:06

coalface of pivotal decisions of the English

29:09

game. Today, I'd like to unlock your

29:11

ambitions for the game, open

29:13

the door to your mind and

29:15

welcome to Through the Rob Keyhole. It's

29:17

time to give us some free Rob Keyhole.

29:19

Right. I'm so... No, I'm

29:21

genuinely nervous about this. I just

29:24

dealt... Well, these are serious questions. I've

29:26

dealt deep into various Reddit forums. Okay.

29:29

Asking people, well, find out what people, how

29:31

people would improve English cricket. Questions.

29:33

I'd like to pitch these to you. Get your thoughts.

29:35

One of these is my suggestion. You can see if

29:37

you can work out which one's mine. Okay. It's one

29:39

of them in the World Test Championship because we've definitely

29:41

covered that. One of them was that. I was going

29:43

to hand that over to you. Just scratch that off.

29:46

Okay. So, sorry, Rob has to

29:48

work out which one is a not real...

29:50

Yeah, maybe... See what you think of the

29:52

opinion. Yeah. And then see if you

29:54

can work out which one is mine. Okay. Yeah, yeah,

29:56

yeah. Some of these are quite serious.

29:58

Rob, should there be a... greater focus on

30:01

England A tours so that young bachelors

30:03

get good away experience before they go

30:05

up against Ashwin and Jadega. This is

30:07

what New Zealand started doing 10 years

30:09

ago and you can't argue with the

30:11

results. Keep it light. Where did this

30:13

come from? That's someone who's absolutely clueless

30:15

who's written that. Right, that

30:17

was a move. Jimmy, right

30:19

to reply. I like the

30:22

fact you called him Jadgasia or

30:24

something like that. Jadega. Jadega.

30:26

Okay. Field placements.

30:28

He cannot mortal combat. Field placements.

30:30

Should field

30:32

placements be displayed almost all the time in a

30:35

small circle at the bottom left hand side of

30:37

the TV? So much about bowler's

30:39

strategies lies in the field placement and it's often

30:41

hard to grasp while watching TV. That's a good

30:43

question. That's a good broadcasting question. Well,

30:46

that is a broadcasting question. I'm sure they used

30:48

to do something like that at some point. Yeah,

30:50

I think it's almost like you have the

30:52

test match special. Yeah, yeah. I remember

30:54

I played when I was about five. Oh,

30:57

what a great game. I think

30:59

it would take away from the coverage if you

31:01

saw that all the time. They have

31:03

it on cricket video games. Yeah,

31:05

Brian love cricket. You'd love it, wouldn't you?

31:07

Yeah. What about replacing the toss at the

31:09

start? A bidding process.

31:12

The captain of each team writes a number in

31:14

an envelope. Whichever

31:16

number is higher, they get to choose whether to

31:18

battle bowl. But that team then gives up that

31:20

amount of the equivalent amount of runs. So it's

31:22

deal or no deal, but the toss. Yeah. All

31:25

right. So you would say, right. I will say

31:27

it will give you a 70 star. But

31:29

we've on the toss. Yeah. I

31:33

think I would quite enjoy that being a part of

31:35

that bidding process, but I don't think we should do

31:37

it. Okay. We can

31:39

do in the hundred. Yeah. Well, royal catcher.

31:42

Okay. So you have a king

31:44

catcher or a queen catcher. And then if

31:46

the the batting team can

31:48

bring on a fielder from their own team,

31:50

and if the batter can hit their own fielder and

31:52

they catch it, you get 20 runs. Sorry.

31:56

What? There's a rogue trader

31:58

fielder who belongs to the... batting team.

32:00

Are you enjoying the new series of

32:02

traitors? Yeah. And then the

32:04

batter is trying to hit that. Right.

32:07

And if he catches it, 20

32:11

runs. 20 runs. So it's like adds

32:13

an element of jeopardy to it. And then I think

32:15

we're really excited. But if you were the opposition captain,

32:17

you would just put a fielder next

32:20

to and they'd start fighting as the ball was in

32:22

the midair. That's quite good. Yeah. But then the fielders

32:24

will move around. You have to work out the fielding

32:26

positions and then maybe they move too many fielders around

32:28

to that side. And then they whack it. Anyway,

32:31

Rob Key, thoughts on that? I've

32:33

sort of been lusting Greg a match in Bath

32:36

and Greg's got to think they are much quicker

32:38

than I am, to be honest. And he's actually

32:40

sort of trying to argue about something that's never

32:42

going to happen. Agreed. Let me just ask a

32:44

bit more things to tell Enders. Exactly.

32:47

The World Test Championship. Rob,

32:50

what do you think about the tosses in home test series?

32:52

Do you think there's anything in the

32:55

away team just automatically winning the toss for

32:57

a series and levelling

32:59

it out? So I'm thinking, for example, this year when

33:01

Wendy's and Sri Lanka come, it might be balance one

33:03

or the other, might help your

33:06

quality in games a little bit. I don't

33:08

know. I always think when people talk about

33:10

stuff like this, I always think

33:12

like the average punter at home isn't sitting there

33:14

going, do you know why I don't watch that

33:16

test cricket? Because like the away team doesn't get

33:18

the choice of batting or bowling first. It was

33:21

that long. Yeah.

33:24

I watch it now. That's why I

33:26

did that. They

33:29

did try that. They tried that in

33:32

the championship, didn't they? Yeah. The away

33:34

team could either choose to bowl

33:36

first or have a toss. Do

33:39

you know what? I tell you a quick story.

33:41

I was on one of the committees back then

33:44

as a captain that came up with that when

33:46

Andrew Strauss and Andy Flower were trying

33:48

to pitch that idea. And

33:50

they sort of came up with that idea.

33:52

They knew something was up because they put

33:55

this video on of

33:58

how wolves, it's like a cricket meeting, and it was how when you've been introduce

34:00

walls into Yellowstone Park, it

34:03

completely changed the nature of the environment and

34:05

all of that. And I'm sitting thinking, what

34:07

on earth is this all about?

34:09

And then they

34:12

came on about how you used to use

34:14

this nudge theory away, rather than just saying

34:16

we're going to change things, we'll just come

34:18

up with this toss idea and the opposition

34:21

can choose the toss. And then that will

34:23

change the way that people will produce pictures

34:25

and the way that the oppositions do things

34:27

and stuff like that. There you

34:29

go, there's an inside. Sorry, walls,

34:31

the animal walls. Yeah. Well, how

34:33

is a great thing if you

34:35

look on YouTube, you

34:37

can put in this thing about how when

34:39

wolves are introduced into yellow, have you ever

34:41

watched like, you must watch Yellowstone stuff like

34:43

that. Right. Changes the thing. Yeah, yeah. The

34:46

ecosystem. And all the

34:49

whole ecosystem changes and everything starts to

34:51

flourish. So when like, the waters start,

34:53

you know, the brook started babbling and

34:55

all this type of stuff, purely because

34:57

I think it was the deer or

35:00

something had basically sort of eaten everything.

35:02

What would be a test cricket wolf?

35:04

I don't feel like

35:06

I'm going to take over from

35:08

Attenborough in my sort of description.

35:11

No, yeah, here, put it on YouTube

35:13

and then you'll see. So

35:15

Matt is asking, what is the wolf in test

35:17

cricket? What would be a wolf example? What

35:20

would be a wolf? Change the way you

35:22

do the toss would change the whole

35:27

game. You know, what they

35:29

were basically saying was that every county

35:31

was producing pitches for their own end.

35:33

So yeah, it was just seeming pitches.

35:36

And they roll the dice with the toss

35:39

away from them. So that if you produce

35:41

a really poor pitch, yeah, or a seeming

35:43

pitch, a poor pitch, I suppose, you

35:46

would just turn around in the opposition and say,

35:48

well, fine, you've done that you can have a

35:50

battle. Yeah. And that was the theory that they

35:52

were coming up with. I've got another question for

35:54

you, Rob. Me and Greg were messaging during India,

35:56

South Africa, and we were like, gutted, it's done

35:58

in basically two days. But it was

36:00

all over and we had three days

36:02

penciled in I'm doing nothing till 4 p.m. For

36:05

the next three days And then that's over What

36:08

about this? If

36:10

a test match is over in two days,

36:12

you just play another one. Everyone's

36:14

got the ticket The

36:16

beer match basically exactly as Rob says

36:18

everyone's got tickets The

36:20

broadcast scenes like nailed down. We all want

36:23

to watch it Why do we just stop it's

36:25

like saying in football first to four and if

36:27

it's four new after 20 minutes is done and

36:29

the umpire's opening the bat in Yeah,

36:33

well I asked Jimmy that he's still a player Steve

36:35

What do you reckon you know what the players would

36:38

think about that Jimmy? I'm not sure that go down

36:40

well with the players to be honest I think if

36:42

you if you've if you've won a game

36:44

in a day and a half

36:47

then you There's no incentive

36:49

to win it Oh Because

36:52

you're playing for the next three days anyway

36:54

They'll have been there the books got tea

36:56

times on the third anyway exactly provisional So

36:59

that's what I've learned from being inside cricket.

37:01

No one wants anything more in cricket and

37:03

they're not to be cricket I'm

37:06

Troy Deanie and I'm Jermaine the Po and In

37:13

this podcast we revealed the football first that shaped

37:15

our careers and the first time we got dropped

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the first time we missed an absolute I wish

37:20

for three yards That's

37:22

someone's mirror the first time we got sold

37:24

and the first time Jermaine name dropped the

37:27

world-famous rapper when I saw for Toronto Drake

37:29

for me Yeah, well, I'm sick. You know

37:32

Drake told you my nan text me between

37:35

this Football first from

37:37

BBC five live listen on BBC

37:39

sounds now Rob I'm

37:41

sorry that this essentially turned into a drag

37:43

a dragon's den episode with us pitching bad

37:45

ideas to you But they

37:47

were I know you've got to go because you've

37:50

got busy meeting day and you say what you

37:52

what meetings you got today Yeah first day back

37:54

in that Lord's I've got leadership group at 12

37:56

o'clock and it's now 1208 Oh,

37:58

is that is that boring or the? No, no,

38:02

they're great fun. The corporate

38:04

side of the jobs really

38:06

is really good. And then

38:09

I've got lunch at, well,

38:11

we've got a new guy starting in our

38:14

ops team who's running the whole of the

38:16

operation. Basically, I think most people in my

38:18

department or the England men's department, they do

38:20

a lot more work than I do. So

38:23

they're sort of bringing in

38:25

this new ops guy who used

38:27

to be a rugby player, Stuart

38:29

Hooper, played football. Legend, Stuart Hooper, the

38:31

bar of legend. Yeah, he's captain of Bath

38:33

and then became the coach

38:35

and stuff like that, arguably

38:37

more qualified than I am.

38:39

Anyway, I'm doing

38:41

like, you know, when you have an induction day

38:44

when he gets taken around. And I remember when

38:46

I started the induction day, and I've got someone

38:48

sort of telling me about all

38:50

these, you know, we've got this thing called, you

38:53

know, we've got this sort of appraisal system, we've

38:55

got this system, and I'm just thinking, I've got

38:57

to try and find some coaches, man, I've got

38:59

time for this, you know, whatever else it is,

39:01

but I've gradually learned and now I'm giving them

39:04

my stuff. Well, actually, on that,

39:06

there was an interview you did a little while ago

39:08

saying that you didn't know how to do your emails.

39:10

Have you sorted that out now? Do you know how

39:12

to do that? Well,

39:14

you know, once I get into Outlook,

39:17

every now and again, I have to put in some sort of

39:19

like, it comes out with some sort of

39:21

security code that I have

39:23

to then get a text message. So,

39:26

every now and again, I do it, I send an

39:28

email, but I just find like, I find WhatsApp

39:31

so much better. Yeah. You

39:34

know, like WhatsApp so much smarter

39:36

and, you know, just try WhatsApp, you the

39:38

world's best championship stuff. Yeah,

39:41

I felt like you can email you can email.

39:45

I feel like Rob might suddenly have a Boris Johnson

39:47

moment ago, and actually, they all deleted. I have no

39:49

idea. My focus deleted. I have no idea. That's the

39:51

great thing about WhatsApp is they can just mysteriously get

39:54

deleted. So, you don't have to be held

39:56

accountable for anything. That's a

39:58

great idea, Rob, in case things go wrong. wrong. But

40:01

just back to what

40:03

we were talking about earlier and in terms of

40:05

your success, what does it look like

40:07

for you when you move out of this job, whenever

40:10

that may be, what will you look back

40:12

on and go, yes, that was a success, I made a

40:14

difference. What do you want to achieve? What's your main objective

40:16

here? I just want to be remembered. I

40:20

just think that I'm not really fussed

40:22

about that. As long as it's tricky,

40:24

it's something that people in this centre

40:26

hate, you know, I sound like a

40:28

melt really, but I just

40:30

want people to enjoy cricket and

40:32

players to feel like they've been

40:35

able to play to their full capacity. You

40:38

know, that watching like Harry Brooke come in and

40:40

play the way that he does, and

40:42

the way that all the players, that's

40:44

the most enjoyable thing I think. And if

40:46

you, with the amount of talent we have,

40:48

if that happens, then the winning things are

40:51

given really. If you're doing that, you're going

40:53

to be winning more than you lose. So

40:55

I think that's, yeah, I just

40:57

want people to, especially test cricket, just

40:59

people to love watching and

41:02

implying the game because of it. It's what they

41:05

do well. It's really nice to see you say that,

41:07

man, because that's how people running games should

41:09

feel about it. Just love it like we do. That's

41:11

why we all love it, isn't it? In fact, what

41:13

is a couple more questions? I know you've got this

41:15

boring meeting to go to, but we're really enjoying chatting

41:17

to you. And this is a great opportunity for us

41:19

to actually sort of, you know,

41:21

infiltrate ECB. But what

41:24

do you love most about cricket? What

41:26

is it that you love? Great question.

41:28

Well, the thing I love is probably different.

41:31

I mean, you talk, the thing I had,

41:33

the thing that I've loved about cricket is

41:35

like literally every person I know pretty much

41:37

and every person I enjoy spending time with

41:39

is through cricket. Like, and

41:41

everything we talk about is cricket, you know,

41:44

like the people that I'm close to

41:46

working with here, you're always throwing around like probably

41:48

where you guys, you know, you just sit in

41:50

there trying to think of ideas and stuff like

41:52

that. And you're in a position where you can actually

41:54

put some of these in place and you see

41:56

if they work. But I

41:58

think there's no better life. than a life

42:00

even cricket to be honest because it's

42:03

just, you know, wherever I've been, I'm going

42:05

to India in a couple of weeks, I've

42:07

been to the Caribbean, you know, all over

42:09

the world, Australia, you know, people in all

42:11

these countries. I think that's the

42:13

thing that I love about it. And then it's, you know,

42:16

when you see talented people do

42:18

things that you can't think

42:20

that's so enjoyable, like watching these guys play

42:22

now and, you know, some

42:24

of the opposition plans, you just

42:27

watch sports and watch people do what you can't

42:29

do. You know, that's why that's the part of

42:31

it. I love watching. Do you not think that

42:33

you would have played if the

42:36

setup was as it is now back when

42:38

you play for England? I don't know, Jimmy,

42:40

I always I always think that, you

42:42

know, I would have enjoyed it more but it that

42:44

way. Do you remember like when, you know, as much

42:46

as I love math, so you just sort of volume

42:49

you every time you miss a ball or something, well,

42:52

I'm in you and stuff like that and fletched,

42:54

ignoring it. But yeah, I think who knows,

42:56

you know, there's some good players around when

42:59

I was trying to get in the team

43:01

when they're so you never know, but I

43:03

would have enjoyed it. You're too modest about

43:05

your own abilities, Rob, you're an absolute gun.

43:07

You've got test

43:11

double hundred. Did you get dropped

43:13

straight after that? What? I've got dropped. No,

43:15

no, I tell you what happened. I played

43:17

that series against Westin, got 90 odd

43:20

with Fred and I, you know, when we

43:22

were kids, when we were younger, we always thought, how good

43:24

would it be to win a game for England? And that

43:26

is my best memory was when I got 90, not

43:29

out and he got 50 against the West

43:31

Indies and we sort of all clocked together.

43:34

We thought, how good is this? This is

43:36

the future for us. Unfortunately, it wasn't. And

43:38

then I got dropped

43:41

after that. Butch came back in South Africa. And

43:43

then I played another couple of tests and that

43:45

was it. But then Cape,

43:47

Cape, you know, the people I got left out

43:49

for were decent players, you know, like Ian

43:51

Bell, what do you get? 20 test hundreds. Kevin

43:54

Peterson, one of the best, if not the best player

43:56

I've seen play for England with the bat, you

43:59

know, Prez was the best opening

44:01

bats when I've seen play for England. I mean, that

44:03

was a proper group of players coming

44:05

through this. That friendship

44:07

with Freddie. In fact, I think, have I mentioned this to you

44:09

before? That's when I met you when I was a kid. Have

44:12

I ever told you this story? Yeah, I've heard you've heard of

44:14

this. Yeah. I think if there's someone about, I think I was

44:17

having a fag behind a It was,

44:19

it was, it was the Bishop

44:21

Storford Cricket Club sort of dinner

44:23

thing. And I was,

44:25

I was in the under 16s at the time and

44:28

the under 16s were in charge of the

44:30

bar, weirdly. Let me know why. But

44:33

you and Freddie came down. He was the, he was the

44:35

speaker, I think, or he was playing in the game. And

44:38

I remember meeting you and Freddie and we were just going

44:40

like, oh, everyone was like, Oh my God, this is a

44:42

mate. Oh my God, this is my actual cricketers. And

44:44

you two ended up getting so drunk that you

44:47

slept underneath the covers. I'm

44:54

going to be in like a respectable position there.

44:58

What sort of stories? Badly,

45:01

badly. In a scene, I

45:03

mean, to us as 60,

45:06

you were absolute, can you belittle it like God

45:08

level legends? Of course, we did that. God

45:10

is an amazing kid. And

45:13

still are. But actually on Freddie, he's firing very sweet.

45:15

You mentioned him earlier that you went, he went and

45:17

watched the Ashley's and he was watching with you sort

45:19

of incognito, wasn't he? So how's Freddie doing? It's so

45:22

nice to see him back in the setup. Yeah, no,

45:24

he's really good at it. I mean,

45:26

I had a health scare a few years ago

45:28

and what I found a mini

45:30

stroke and what I found was when you after

45:32

it's worse than the actual thing, because

45:35

you get so much like anxiety and I never really

45:37

ever struggled with that. You know, and it's not. And

45:40

all of a sudden, I'm just sitting at

45:42

home and watching telly. I was watching that

45:44

SAS who dares wins all the time. You

45:47

know, like just panicking, you know. And

45:49

I remember when Freddie went

45:51

through his accident and stuff like that, it was

45:54

obviously incredibly serious. So I don't think people realise

45:56

at the time how serious it was. He

45:58

was doing the same, you know, you just. he's in a lot

46:01

of pain, but he's also just sitting around in

46:03

your own thoughts all the time. So I said, well, why

46:05

don't you just come down and watch the cricket? The boy,

46:08

he's got two boys, got more than two points, we've got

46:10

three boys and a girl, but the two older boys, they

46:13

love cricket, and they're very good players.

46:15

I said, well, you bring them down

46:17

and they can go and watch and I just

46:19

sit in the back room somewhere watching because you know,

46:21

you can just see it better if I'm trying

46:23

to work out what's going on. You see it better

46:26

on TV like that. So he

46:28

came down on the first day, he was

46:30

the island test. And you could

46:32

tell, you know, he hadn't been out at all. And gradually

46:35

after game after game, he got better and

46:37

better. And I love the fact that cricket

46:39

was the thing that's helped him for everything

46:42

that he's done. You know, and

46:44

then when he got in with the whiteboard team, you

46:47

know, that was the first time he'd sort of

46:49

been seen in public and everyone just loved seeing

46:51

it. You forget that everyone grew up watching him.

46:53

And then since then, he's now, you

46:55

know, back to his old self a little bit,

46:57

which is great to see. Jimmy, you played golf

46:59

with him the other day, didn't he? You

47:02

know, he's come on so much from where

47:04

he was. And I think he'd be a

47:06

brilliant coach because he has empathy.

47:08

He was a great player who

47:10

also had struggle, which is like Stokes.

47:13

You know, Stokes has had his tough times and your

47:16

scars are what make you and Freddie's the same a

47:18

little bit where they know what it's like

47:20

to fail. And I think

47:22

that's so helpful to be able to have

47:25

empathy for players when, you know, their world

47:27

comes to an end when you get out

47:29

or you get around the park and, you

47:32

know, they have an understanding. That's what you just said.

47:34

That was really beautiful that the game sort of came

47:36

back to sort of help Freddie out. And I think

47:38

that's what our experience is for people not like Freddie,

47:40

just listeners and stuff is that that's

47:42

the really, I know Greg asked you what you love about

47:44

cricket, but I think that's kind of how we feel about

47:47

it really is that you pour all this time into cricket

47:49

and some of them think, God, I've wasted all my life

47:51

just watching cricket. But there are

47:53

like, there are moments when you've realised like,

47:55

oh, the game sort of comes back to

47:57

support you and help you out whether you're

47:59

a or you just watch it and love it.

48:02

And that moved me hearing that, because it

48:04

even happens to people like Freddie. I

48:07

had a bad day of a Christmas and I watched the 2005 box

48:09

set. There you

48:11

go, that's a perfect example of it. One of

48:13

the, it's the best DVD you could ever own.

48:16

Yeah, yeah. There's nothing better. There's

48:19

no better film. Show me a better film, I'll show you

48:21

a liar. Right. One

48:24

more thing before we let you go, Rob, is

48:27

we would love to hear what's

48:29

going on with Joffre. Are we going

48:31

to see Joffre Archer in an England shirt in 2024?

48:34

Oh yeah, I mean, fingers crossed, but I hope

48:37

so. Yeah, so I saw him, do you know

48:39

what? I saw him bowl in

48:41

the Caribbean. He came and bowled at us in the net.

48:44

And it was like, he was like, he'd never

48:46

been away. He bowled at you? Everything, no,

48:49

I wouldn't have faced Joffre. I'm sorry, I thought you said

48:51

you put your pants on. He bowled in the net. But

48:54

there's absolutely no way. He

48:56

bowled at the white ball place. So

48:59

he's bowling at things that crawly and, maybe

49:02

it was just that, for about half an hour,

49:04

45 minutes. And then he went

49:06

and played in that club game, which none of us

49:08

knew about. And then he got

49:10

asked in the media saying like, I'm doing this

49:12

big round of gone with this big waffle about

49:14

Joffre. Joffre, he's tracking well. We just have

49:17

to be so careful with him though. We don't want

49:19

to rush him and we're going to bring him back

49:21

slowly and we're going to get him ready for the

49:23

Pakistan T20 series. And

49:26

then once we know he's got through that

49:29

Pakistan T20 series, then we'll

49:31

have him for the World Cup. It'd

49:33

be great to see Joffre back. He's such a

49:35

talent. And then someone said, do you

49:37

know he played a club game the other day? I'm sorry. He

49:41

got five fur or something and probably left

49:43

the arm spin and quit. I don't know,

49:45

I didn't know. It's like a complete moron.

49:49

But I hope. And so

49:52

our plan is World T20, building

49:55

them up slowly. And then hopefully, I think

49:57

he's going to go and bowl out these.

50:00

was out in Abu Dhabi, so you get your arm

50:02

guard on, and then, and

50:04

then yeah, just hopefully then if we

50:06

take it slower, I don't want

50:08

to get back to this thing where it's like

50:10

he plays and then he goes down again, hopefully

50:13

in this way, you know, he wanted to play

50:15

the IPL but we said no, no, not this

50:17

time. And then hopefully it's

50:19

something where he could the years that he's missed,

50:21

he can add on to the end of his

50:23

career. Because he's such a

50:25

talent. I love what, I mean, talk

50:27

about Bob, I mean, I love watching him ball, he's

50:30

as good as anyone. One final question, Rob, and this

50:32

whole conversation has been a build up to this. In

50:35

TailEnders, we have different ways that

50:37

we do cheese on toast. One member of

50:39

the group, I won't tell you who, but

50:41

you can guess, microwaves the

50:43

cheese onto the toast. When

50:46

you do cheese on toast, what's your technique and what's

50:48

your tactics? I don't know, that

50:50

sounds a bit low rent, doing it in the

50:52

microwave. Yeah,

50:55

yeah. Jim. Mine,

50:58

I like, not mad on cheese on toast,

51:00

but I would sort of, you know, I

51:02

would just put it on a grill pan.

51:04

Yeah. And then, you know

51:07

what, I don't even think how I do cheese.

51:09

I remember thinking about it. You see, it's taking

51:11

so much time even thinking about it. If you're

51:13

doing a microwave, you wouldn't even have to think

51:15

about how you do it. Thank you for showing

51:17

your true colors there, Jim. And that is Jimmy,

51:19

you microwaves the cheese. I'll tell you

51:22

how I remember I said

51:24

with the kids, I do like what I

51:27

used to call Keezy pizzas where I get

51:29

a baguette, put a bit of ketchup on

51:31

it, then put the cheese on it and

51:34

then put it under the grill and then do

51:36

it that way and then Fleur, who's a nutritionist,

51:38

would not be pleased. A Keezy

51:40

pizza? Keezy pizzas. I need to learn more

51:42

about Keezy pizzas. Is it half a baguette?

51:45

Like keys. You're going to love Keezy pizzas.

51:47

It's half. It's half a baguette. Yeah,

51:50

but you just take the top, you just cut along the

51:52

baguette, don't you? Half it, yeah. Cut

51:54

it half. You know, so

51:56

it's one side of the good bit of the bread. We get it.

52:00

How are you going more in depth

52:02

with this than anything else you thought?

52:05

Bro, could you email this to me actually? Run

52:11

that by me again. Right, so... And

52:15

I'm doing it, I know it's like a podcast, but

52:17

you start going that way. Like, you know that in

52:19

Subway? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do that. And then

52:21

you take the hassle. Linked way. And then you're like,

52:24

you've got to have the kitch up. It's

52:26

a horizontal slide. I

52:29

don't think there's anyone listening that thought he was eating

52:31

a vertical pizza. Making

52:36

a pizza on the end of a baguette. And

52:41

that's a Kizzee pizza. You

52:47

like sticks, you like pizza, you love a Kizzee

52:49

pizza. Right, anyway. Gear shift, Rob, into leadership meeting

52:51

now you go. Yes. I

52:54

know, I might have to just sort of just get my serious face

52:56

back by the end. Rob, this

52:58

has been even more fun

53:00

than we thought it would be. Thank

53:02

you so much for your time. And any

53:05

final words of advice for Jimmy as he

53:07

goes off to go and help you win

53:09

a series? No, no, he's

53:11

no one knows more about what to do

53:13

than Jimmy. Cheers for those inspirational words. Well,

53:19

you do some inspirational words then, right? Come on then.

53:21

Why have you got that? Yeah, and what's your message

53:23

to Rob Key? One

53:25

of the great or Rob

53:40

Key, thank you so much for joining us on Go

53:53

All Over. It was really. It was all

53:56

over the place. Did we bring that energy to it? Yeah,

53:58

yeah, yeah, yeah, but I think I. I

54:00

actually wouldn't change a single thing about it. I

54:02

could think of something I would change. Was it

54:04

when you started swearing at the managing director of

54:06

England men's cricket? Your heart broke when I looked

54:08

over to you, because if there was ever a

54:11

moment I was going to take the championship to

54:13

the next level. And you

54:15

know in The Simpsons where Lisa breaks Ralph's heart

54:17

and you can see his heart breaking? No, exactly

54:19

what you mean, because I felt it. I felt

54:21

it in my chest at the moment, like... I

54:25

felt it happen and then... Oh

54:27

my God! So it's

54:29

just the swearing and the anger. It's

54:31

like you got so defensive about your

54:33

idea and people putting it down. It's

54:35

like, what's my ****? What's your ****

54:37

mate? Oh, what about

54:39

your ****ing woke up? Your

54:43

****ing seven weeks, you prick! I

54:46

went too intense too quickly. But do you

54:48

know what? Because I didn't realise how important

54:50

that was to me until I started saying

54:52

it. And I thought obviously it was going

54:54

to be a joke. We all also

54:56

thought it was going to be a joke. And then about

54:58

10 seconds of chat, I was like, oh no, this isn't

55:00

a joke. I am actually pitching this. I've set this up

55:02

as a thing and I

55:05

need him to like it. I need that.

55:07

I don't know if you could see it, but I

55:09

could see him at times

55:11

fighting with the... Oh,

55:13

I am the managing director of English cricket,

55:15

so I've got to be a little bit

55:17

serious, but I want to be

55:20

candid as well. Yeah, and then all

55:22

of a sudden Kesey Pizza comes out to play. It's

55:25

like being in class in it where naughty

55:27

kids are luring you over a little bit.

55:29

I like that about him though. Oh yeah,

55:31

he's got a clean eye. And that's why

55:34

the Bazbull

55:36

slash tear lender's way

55:40

of operating seeps through every

55:42

bit. Like he was talking about his

55:44

emails and not knowing the code to

55:46

get into it all. I

55:48

love that. Actually he's going back into therapy and talking

55:50

about what's just happened. Matching. I

55:53

thought you were going to do game or like, but

55:56

you suddenly got like mad serious. I was like, what

55:58

is going on here? I

56:00

didn't have an idea for a game. I didn't have

56:02

an idea for a game. I

56:04

didn't have a game, but I thought I had the

56:06

opportunity to turn into Laura Coonsberg. I

56:09

didn't have an idea for a game, but I thought, why

56:11

am I going to get the opportunity again? And I thought, this

56:13

is... well, never. So who's... I didn't

56:15

quite understand whose ideas you were reading out

56:17

there. Random ideas I saw on the

56:19

internet. I Googled how to

56:21

improve English Test Cricut. And there was

56:23

lots of people who have submitted. Read

56:26

that first one again and let's get

56:28

Jimmy's actual response on this. That

56:30

first one was about the England A tour.

56:32

Long and... It wasn't so common. It wasn't.

56:35

That should be great. I don't really know what it is about

56:37

the A tour. The England A tour. What even is that? Right.

56:39

So you've just... you've read that out

56:41

a day after the England A team

56:44

landed in India for

56:46

a seven week camp, I think. Seven

56:50

weeks is a bit f***ing long, isn't it? There

56:52

should be a greater focus on the England A

56:54

tour, so young batters get a good way experience.

56:58

So we've literally got an A tour, sort

57:00

of side by

57:02

side, the test tour. Okay. Please

57:05

shove your world cup up your arse. We've

57:07

got... honestly, we've got two flustered there. I

57:10

think we've understood... Because the background

57:12

for this, for Telenden's listening, is that this has

57:14

been a long time coming, this interview. I

57:16

think if this had happened nine months ago, I think it would... we'd

57:18

have had less time to think about it. But

57:20

I think it's been downloading in our brains

57:23

for a while, but Rob Key's going to

57:25

come on at some point. And it's meant

57:27

too much to certain individuals, a.k.a.

57:29

me, at the wrong moment. I

57:32

did ask... I asked

57:34

Jack Leech and Iggy Wong what

57:36

their questions would be. Oh,

57:42

say that then, isn't there? Yeah, I know, but he's

57:44

only got back late, so he was... Women's domestic Red

57:46

Bull cricket would be great. Yeah,

57:49

but he's the men's bloke, isn't he? Yeah,

57:51

I know. Yeah, he still would have an opinion

57:53

on that. Jack Leech wants a West Country 100 team, but I don't

57:55

think he has any control over that. Oh, that's quite good. Mark

57:58

Nicholas wants an MCC. 100

58:00

teams here about that? Well I want World Series Championship but we're not gonna

58:02

get all get what we want are we? Okay

58:05

and with that thank you for

58:07

listening to this special episode of

58:31

your heart can have broken and it can also

58:33

have been a great into the fight. So that's

58:35

actually, life can be sad and beautiful. Cricket. Go

58:37

Wells and then let's get that outta here. Engagement.

58:39

Oh I can't believe you can't believe you can't

58:41

believe you can't believe me. You are the engagement.

58:44

Jess and Charlie. Go well.

58:46

Cheers. Oh sorry.

58:48

Cheers. New talent is?

58:50

Human being babies. Baby. Kenny

58:53

and Daisy go well. Cheers.

58:56

And also a very special one, my

58:58

dear friend Will and his

59:01

wife Helen. They've

59:03

had a baby. Called? Freddy. Did

59:06

a poo in you, didn't it? Oh, did

59:09

a, yeah, did a big deposit

59:11

on my lap. First time I

59:13

held him. Is it Freddy related? Is

59:16

it topical? You know. So Helen is not supposed

59:18

to know this and I don't think she'll listen.

59:21

So but between

59:23

Will and I, we have discussed that

59:25

yes, it does have cricket connotations. Right.

59:28

Similarly, so does the name of their cat, which

59:31

is Elby after LBW. Right.

59:33

So a huge go well

59:35

to Will and Helen and

59:37

most importantly Freddy. Yeah, go

59:39

well. Welcome to the world.

59:41

Cheers. Go well to you.

59:44

Cheers. From wacky uncle

59:46

Reg and Snipwell, this

59:48

is some googly news. Toby

59:50

is going under the knife having

59:52

a vasectomy. So Snipwell. Go well.

59:55

Snipwell. Cheers. Oh,

59:57

couple of birthdays Adam and Alex. Happy birthday

59:59

to Adam and... Alex have a

1:00:01

birthday matching anything else. Yeah,

1:00:03

Tom Sanderson He has

1:00:06

just had his first son Woody

1:00:08

max. Hegarty Saunderson you

1:00:10

reading this no He

1:00:12

would love a shout out from Jimmy. Thank

1:00:14

you. Well, would he

1:00:17

go out? Next

1:00:19

time we chat Jimmy you're gonna be in India

1:00:21

whether you like it or not young man Yeah,

1:00:25

yeah, are you ready for that excited? Let's

1:00:27

have an Abu Dhabi on on

1:00:30

Thursday for 10 days camp

1:00:32

and Then we go

1:00:35

we first test in Hyderabad lovely

1:00:38

fighting Can't wait

1:00:40

to watch that so hurry up

1:00:42

broadcasters and please buy the rights

1:00:44

to otherwise Nobody will be able

1:00:47

to watch it and that won't be good for the game Maybe

1:00:49

it gets to the point where we will be

1:00:51

able to buy the rights for like a 10

1:00:53

pounds Well, just put it

1:00:55

on I play or something Jeff and Adam did

1:00:57

for the ground Put it

1:01:00

on on Jimmy's Instagram matching. Maybe she goes

1:01:02

on in Jimmy's Instagram quiz Yeah, that's where

1:01:04

test cricket's going. It's gonna be on Instagram

1:01:06

one players Instagram live Instagram live. Yeah hosted

1:01:08

by Ian Ward Yeah, but on a GoPro

1:01:10

cello take to his head And

1:01:15

after act out the replays anyway, bye

1:01:17

go well There's

1:01:22

Something mysterious plagues County Mayo on the

1:01:24

west coast of Ireland and it's a

1:01:26

legendary Gaelic football team I believe in

1:01:28

the curse. Yeah, I think it's real

1:01:30

Is it just superstition or could there

1:01:32

be more to it sometimes? I think

1:01:35

there's something sinister going on What do we

1:01:37

need to do to win an online final

1:01:39

for mayor? Listen to the curious

1:01:41

tale of the Mayo curse on

1:01:43

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