As soon as you tell anyone that you re a travel writer, the phrase that comes out is Oh, that s the dream job , says freelance travel writer Sue White. But is it? Sue spills the beans for us in this episode of Talemaking.

Listen to this episode if

Is travel writing the dream job? And what makes a successful travel writer?

• You re curious about whether travel writing is indeed a dream job (hint: pretty much, yes)
• You want to know what a travel writer s life is like
• You want to know how to put a sense of place into your own writing, whether you re writing a travel article or for business

Giving your writing a sense of place

Sue White, experienced freelance travel writer

Sue White is an experienced freelance travel writer, whose work can be found in publications across Australia and the rest of the world. She is an expert in giving your writing a sense of place, which is a useful skill whether you re writing a Lonely Planet guide or a corporate newsletter.

In this podcast, we discuss the life of a travel writer as well as practical tips for using the travel writer s art in your own writing.

 

Play the episode

 More inspiration for travel writing

1. Sue White s own website
2. How getting laid off inspired one writer to travel the world Geraldine DeRuiter tells Mashable how she got started writing The Everywhereist
3. How I quit my job to travel: The financial writer  Mariellen Ward talks to the BBC about how she came to run Breathedreamgo, an award-winning travel site dedicated to the kind of travel that changes you .
4. Secrets of a Travel Writer travel journalist George W. Stone gives National Geographic readers his 10 top tips for aspiring travel writers
5. Travel Writers Exchange  helping travel journalists find their voice in the world of online travel journalism

 

Podcast transcript

Sue White:

[0:05] Walking along a clear patch of jungle towards the ruins of Lubaantun in southern Belize, Central America, I prepare mentally to connect with this ancient Mayan city.

[0:16] Somewhere between AD 730 and AD 860 more than 1000 people once lived here in a busy hub that exploited the area s rich soils, limestone and granite, to become a center for trade.

[0:29] Before I can enter it, it seems today s Mayan descendants wish to connect with me. The grassy trail to the entrance of Lubaantun is dotted with local women and young girls attempting to entice visitors to buy hand-made baskets, hair ornaments and brightly embroidered tea towels.

[0:46] With 1300 year old Mayan ruins just a stroll away I m reluctant to spend time debating whether an image of a Toucan or a Mayan calendar is most suited to my future washing up needs.

[0:58] Choosing a small woven trinket, I m struck by the enormity of the women s task. Despite its place in history, only five to ten people make the journey up the Toledo district s bumpy, jungle roads to visit Lubaantun on an average day.

Steven Lewis:

[1:13] Welcome to Talemaking. This is a podcast about getting your business message out with a particular focus on using stories. I m Steven Lewis, director of Taleist, a content marketing agency here in Sydney. We specialize in using the skills of journalism and story-telling to make our clients stand out.

[1:31] Speaking of standing out, that wonderful piece of writing you just heard was from an article called, Curse Of The Crystal Skull. It s about Mayan ruins in Belize, and it appeared in The Sun Herald. It was written by Sue White.

[1:44] Sue s a highly-regarded freelance writer, whose work is published all over the world, but is most often seen here in Australia in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

[1:54] One of Sue s specialties, as you can tell, is travel writing, something she also teaches. Sue s joined me in this episode to talk about giving your writing a sense of place. Sue thanks for coming on.

Sue:

[2:07] Pleasure, Steven.

Steven:

[2:08] You and I have both done travel writing. You ve done a lot more of it than I have. You know even better than I do that a fair percentage of the population would put travel writer on their dream job list. How do you find the reality compares to the fantasy?

Is travel writing a dream job?

Sue:

[2:25] It s a great question; because as soon as you tell anyone that you re a writer they re usually fairly interested, but as soon as you mention that you do travel writing, that s the phrase that comes out, Oh, that s the dream.

[2:37] [laughter]

Sue:

[2:38] That s the dream job. That s all anyone wants to talk about as soon as they find out that you re a travel writer. It is something that people are fascinated by. As someone who s been long obsessed with travel myself, there is a big dose of dream job in there.

[2:56] The reality yeah, look It s the best of times the worst of times thing.

[3:00] [laughter]

Sue:

[3:02] There s so much about travel writing that really is what people probably imagine, but then there s a whole other world that s probably quite the opposite to what people might imagine it to be.

Steven:

[3:16] I sometimes wonder if the most extreme version of what it isn t, of what people think it is. Is when you are writing for travel guide and they tell you fine you can go to Bali, but I mean you re not going to Bali to luxuriate in a five star hotel.

[3:31] You re going to Bali to run around, jumping into as many cafes as you possibly can to look at what s on the menu, right?

Sue:

[3:37] Well that s right, and there are different types of travel running. As you mentioned, travel guides, I ve got lots of colleagues who have written travel guides for the big players, Rough Guides and Lonely Planet, and they very much have to write about 20 hotels and 20 cafe s.

[3:54] Famously one writer that I was with on Lord Howe Island had to go and find out when the laundromat closed.

[4:01] [laughter]

Sue:

[4:03] I was actually off to the spa to have a glass of champagne before dinner. That was one of those moments where I thought, I m really glad I m doing feature writing which doesn t require that level of minutia.

[4:18] Something I always tell my travel writing students, if you come back from a travel writing trip and you are like that was a really lovely holiday, I feel quite relaxed and rested, you probably actually haven t done your job correctly.

[4:34] I usually come back and I feel like, wow I just made small talk with people for, let s say I ve been away for a week, I ve made small talk with people 18 hours a day for the whole time I ve been away. I ve basically pushed, pushed, pushed, I think oh good well I ve probably done a reasonable job then.

Steven:

[4:51] You and I have talked about this before but, there s that moment when you check into the hotel that s putting you up and the person checking you in is typing on the computer and then, they suddenly stiffen a little bit. Because there is a note in the computer that says, danger, journalist! Danger, journalist!

 

Sue:

[5:07] And then there is travel writer [laughs]

Steven:

[5:09] Yeah, travel writer, and the assistant manager comes up and she s got a folder in her hand, and the folder invariably, in my experience, it s been a while since I ve done it, has a headshot of the Swiss general manager.

Sue:

[laughter] [5:22] Very important.

Steven:

[5:23] Yeah, I often think to myself when have the PR people for this hotel, ever seen a travel article with a head-shot of the Swiss general manager in it.

Sue:

[5:33] This is true, and it is one of the things, sometimes people get to come along with me on trips, and they inevitably are always surprised at these people, head honchos popping up here and there, you go to dinner at a lovely restaurant and the chef comes out and has a chat, or you go to lunch and then you realize you re being accompanied by the marketing manager, and that they haven t actually told you that.

[5:57] Or you go to your room and it s beyond the folder you ve got quite love life presence, People get quite excited by, I have to say if they are seeing it. You do have to really remember as the writer that that is not the experience of the everyday traveler, that is who you are trying to write for.

[6:18] You almost have to blank all that stuff out, try to get to the truth of the experience. You are going to have a very diluted story.

Steven:

[6:27] It is in a way an introvert s nightmare, isn t it? All of that small talk, it does start from check in. How long have you worked at the hotel?

Sue:

[6:36] Absolutely.

Steven:

[6:37] In the lift all the way to your room.

Sue:

[6:40] Yeah. For someone like me who is definitely not an introvert, it probably is the right job for me. I m quite happy having a chat to the taxi driver, the person giving out the towels at the pool, the whole show, I m quite happy doing that.

[6:58] It is true that sometimes I think I just like to bit quiet right now, it s not polite to do so. Yeah, you absolutely are a chat, it s a chat fest.

Steven:

[7:09] Now we ve spent some time complaining about our difficult lives

Sue:

[7:12] It s horrible.

Steven:

[7:13] Getting free stays at four star hotels.

Sue:

[7:16] Very expensive hotels.

Steven:

[7:19] Obviously a sense of place is crucial when you are writing a travel piece. When you are looking Mayan ruins in Belize you have to take me there in the words. You write a lot of things, not just travel. How important do you think it is in other kind of writing to get us a sense of place?

How important is a sense of place in corporate writing?

Sue:

[7:38] It s really important; it s something that creative writers do naturally. I would describe myself as a really solid, non-fiction writer. I m really good at taking something that s true, turning it into what journalists would call a good yarn.

[7:56] Whereas if you are writing a novel, you would be very adept at just writing this beautiful sense of place in everything, description and everything.

[8:04] The challenge when you are writing for some type of format. Whether that s a copywriting project for a corporate client or for a story in the _Sydney Morning Herald_, is you tend to have very defined structure that you need to work with.

[8:20] At the same time, you ve got to capture your readers, people get captured by a sense of place, a sense of their imagination being out to see or smell what s happening. You do need to be able to figure out how to do it.

Steven:

[8:38] When you are doing it if we go back to the travel writing which is obviously your bread and butter of what you are doing, that s where you exercise that muscle. Do you have a process when you get to a new place for I don t know, recording the sights and sounds or whatever it is that is going to help you bring it to life?

Sue:

[8:56] Yeah, I think everyone does this differently, I have actually cobbled together a series of things that all add up to give me that. I wonder if she s got an appalling memory, I ve got a journalist s memory which means you get very engrossed in something for three days, you know everything about it, you can talk to quite a detailed level about it, then you forget because you move on to the next thing.

[9:20] A week later, you re like, I knew all about that particular thing they do in agriculture, now I ve got no idea what it is, it s something about horses flying. What I tend to do, firstly I do talk to people all of the time, I am actually not that interested in talking to the CEO, I m more interested in talking to the people who are on the ground and doing things.

[9:48] I am interested in talking to the person who s handing out the towels. I m probably going to be doing things like say, You know, I m thinking of going into town later, where would be a good spot for a coffee?

[10:00] I may not even ask the concierge, the concierge is probably going to send me to the same place he sends all the other tourists.

[10:09] If they give me the answer I say, Yeah, yeah, but where do you go, where do you go when you are on your day off? My process is to tap into as many locals as I can as quickly as I can.

[10:23] Try to talk to them about normal life there, I think if you can get under that true facade, get to their normal life, then that gives you some extra colour the way you would call it.

[10:38] That colour does add up to a sense of place. My other thing is that I love billboards. I love bulletin boards. I have always loved them.

[10:46] I ve got a bit of an onward session with them. If I go to somewhere, I go straight to the town square, I m reading. You get a sense of if it s probably what they are selling, you are like, Oh gosh, people are selling all of these out this verses paid up falcons.

[11:03] You can start to get a sense of what the demographic is and what kind of the community a lot of community activities. I found that kind of stuff really adds up.

Steven:

[11:14] Because you don t need a lot. I know it from myself. Some times I ve gone somewhere and I m like oh, I don t know how I m going to get into this piece. Then I ll see something and I know. I ve snapped a mental picture and my instinct tells me that will be the first paragraph of my story.

[11:30] That guy chewing that thing in that particular wine spitting it into that bucket. Or whatever it is that I have seen. Did you have that moment where you get that s going in the story?

Sue:

[11:39] It s lovely, that moment. That s the moment we all want. It is really important and I think to get to that moment, you need to give yourself a little bit of space. While I m doing all those things; talking to people and looking at notice boards and sitting there with the local paper, I m actually trying to not rush.

[11:55] I m actually just trying to absorb. I usually find if I m somewhere for let s say four days, maybe it s on day two or day three that that moment comes out and I think this is how this whole thing is going to flow or hang together.

[12:15] It is interesting because people who aren t writers tend to think that you need volume to get that. If I m doing corporate that work or even when I m interviewing people for a journalism article, they keep on sending you stuff and send you stuff and send you stuff and you are sort of drowning in material.

[12:37] A good writer should be able to have some sort of process to get a quick micro picture on what is needed. Whether that is travel writing, whether that is sort you are writing on someone s website.

[12:49] Then be able to filter out all the guff you don t need and use those beautiful moments because that s what readers will connect with.

Steven:

[12:58] You made me think that when you said earlier that you have a journalist s memory, I wrote a small travel book on my horrendous experience on the Indian Pacific.

Sue:

[13:08] I loved reading that.

Steven:

[13:10] When I was writing about Kalgoorlie, where the train stops, I was tired when I got off that train and I was so ill. I hadn t taken any notes. I was a pup-seeking missile. I was literally looking for a beer.

[13:24] I used Google Street View to retrace my steps. When I got home which was incredibly helpful because I couldn t remember the street names, I couldn t remember the name of the pub.

[13:35] But I knew what route I had taken. I re-walked it on Google Street View which I found incredibly helpful. Now I do all my travel work from Google street view. I don t even go to the place.

[13:49] In terms of shortcuts, sort of sketching a place, you like the bulletin board. You are looking at bulletin board. Is food the heaviest cliché that if you go to South America you are inevitably to write about whatever the South American food or place is. Do you think there are clichés to avoid or ?

Avoiding cliches in your writing

Sue:

[14:12] There are plenty of clichés to avoid in travel writing and most of them the question I think is a really good question to ask yourself if you are writing that travel is, does this sound like a travel brochure? Because if it sounds like a travel brochure, it s probably not a good paste of travel writing.

[14:32] The travel brochures tend to be very clichéd writing and it s not that compelling to read. Whereas when you are doing a travel feature, say for a magazine or newspaper, you are really trying to engage the readers in something that goes beyond clichés.

[14:53] I am always thinking of it as the shortcut for me is, is this something that people wouldn t find out by Googling? Is it an insider s tip? Can I offer them something that would be hard for them to figure out themselves?

[15:09] That s always what I mean for my readers to get. Shortcuts to getting there are practised, I think and knowing the balance between when you have an off and when you need to keep pushing and finding more and that again probably you get better at that with experience.

Steven:

[15:31] I think that s why you get to an instinct where you know your notebook full enough. You just know. Like when I m interviewing somebody by phone, I type as they talk and I know when I have typed enough words.

[15:46] To write often you have a sense almost by I think a publication that sketches things well that you wouldn t necessarily expect it in reading is _The Economist_, they have that often when they are writing about I don t know American politics or whatever they are writing about.

[16:02] But there would be the first two paragraphs would be some snapshots of what happened at taco stand in Texas. That really brings you into the bigger picture.

The importance of colour in writing

Sue:

[16:16] That s really what is called colour. Colour is what makes travel writing come alive. It s sense of place it s a sense of seeing beyond the facts because if you are just reading about facts and figures, it s very difficult as a reader to let your imagination being gauged by that.

[16:38] We are always much more impacted by something if we can let our imagination being gauged. I think you definitely want to try and get the reader into that mental space.

Steven:

[16:52] When you are writing, doing corporate writing. Let s say you are doing somebody s website. How much do you try to get a sense of place?

[17:00] Where do you think a sense of place would be appropriate and where do you think that if I m Harry s car wash maybe you don t need a sense of the place or do you ?

Giving your writing voice

Sue:

[17:10] I think that I would translate it differently for copywriting and talk about the voice. What s the voice of the brand? In journalism we would probably refer to that as house style.

[17:25] If I am writing for a section in the Sydney Morning Herald, they are going to have a different how style to section of the yoga magazine that I write for regularly or an environment magazine or _Vogue_.

[17:41] If the publication has its own how style, it means that the paces have a distinct voice and brands are like that too. Companies are very interested now in creating the distinct brand and what they have tried to do is have a voice that people would recognize as the voice.

[18:03] If they are happy for that voice to be upbeat and pithy and a little bit cheeky, well then, right, you can get it weaved in that way.

[18:14] But they may want quite often a corporate would just want the voice to be professional and authoritative and compassionate perhaps, might be the combination that you are trying to work with.

[18:33] It is not always about it being clever in a sense of clever pithy in engaging writing; it has to also make sense in the broader context of what they are doing and all the other collateral.

Steven:

[18:49] I used to work for quite a while in internal communications and the more I talk to you the more I think I should have been doing more to get a sense of place into that. I spent a lot of time trying to make the writing more interesting, which in a corporate environment is a pretty low bar to overcome.

[19:11] I think now that I look at it, they had offices around the country. If I d spent a bit more time trying to bring that to life for people it could have been a lot more interesting.

Journalism in the corporate environment

Sue:

[19:23] I have done that work in the past. Prior to my journalism days I worked in communications. Thinking about it actually, what people really love in any sort of They love this in journalism but they also love this in corporate, is they love people s stories.

[19:41] You bring in a sense of place through the tales of other employees. Without fail, any newsletter that I ve ever put together for anyone, the section when you track it and you see which sections are being most read. It s always the one that s just the Q and A with a random employee talking about their favourite hobby.

[20:04] It s five minutes with Fred, talking about his job. It s because we re not really sold by corporatespeak. It s really easy to be pushed down that line, but actually that s not really what people are going to read.

[20:20] If you re smart about it you re going to use those things to draw people. You need the people stories to draw people in.

Steven:

[20:29] I said to somebody once in the internal communications department. They were speculating on why things weren t well received. I said, Well, it s because it s North Korea in here.

[20:38] He said, What do you mean?

[20:39] I said, All we ever write is the harvest is abundant, the peasants are happy, spring has come early.

[20:47] We are the peasants. We know the harvest is not abundant. We know it s very cold and spring is late this year so we don t believe a word you re saying.

Sue:

[20:56] It s so true.

Steven:

[20:59] I suppose if you re in that corporate environment, and that goes for sort of travel question for me. Often, which is a real disappointment for aspiring travel writers, is the easiest travel writing to do is travel writing for your hometown.

[21:12] It s much easier to persuade somebody to pay you for 500 words about Sydney than to put you on a plane to go somewhere else as an untested writer. Do you think it s easier to write about a new place because you re suddenly noticing everything?

Is it easier to write about new places?

Sue:

[21:32] There are a couple of publications out there that will only take travel writing from people who live in the place. I always think that s a bit unfair because I can see it from both sides.

[21:43] On the one hand, if you are a local you should have some great local tips. You should have some fantastic insider tips up your sleeve. It should be pretty easy for you to come up with an interesting piece.

[21:56] By the same token, if you are a professional and your skill is digging out interesting stuff from places and people, then you should land anywhere and do that same thing. I think the challenge probably is that if people don t leave themselves enough time to do that.

[22:18] For example, sometimes travel writing trips are very organized. You go with other journalists and you re on a very timed itinerary. That s compelling in one sense because usually you re not paying anything to do that. I try not to do those kind of trips.

[22:34] I try and do a trip where mostly I m still not actually paying, if we re being honest. Other people are sort of hosting it. But I m on my own time in terms of an itinerary. I m just there by myself.

[22:51] I have figured out in advance, you know what, I m doing XYZ story and I m going to need six days to make this work. There are stories that I just know if I only have 24 hours, I just know I can t do a good job.

[23:05] It s not going to be possible for me to go beyond what people could find out through a brochure. Sometimes I think it s just actually about being willing to invest a bit more time in the experience.

Steven:

[23:19] That really comes out, doesn t it, when you read the work of somebody like Jan Morris, who seems to have gone and spent three months in New York before she would even consider writing so much as a sentence about the place.

Sue:

[23:32] Yeah, that s right. Look, in some ways that s a luxury because

Steven:

[23:35] Mmm, yeah. [laughs]

Sue:

[23:37] People are always time crunched. As freelancers you re going somewhere. I m going on a trip next week and I think I ve sold five stories before I ve gone.

[23:49] I m already thinking, Oh, I could do this story and this story and this story. I m actually trying to pack in the itinerary so the time-money equation works out in your favour as well. Yes, it would be very, very lovely to take that approach if you can, absolutely.

Steven:

[24:08] I suppose to paint people a picture of what it takes to give someone a sense of place, what s a sort of typical day for you?

[24:17] Let s say you re doing a story where I m going to read about the 5-star hotel you stayed in and had mojitos. In my mind, as somebody who isn t a travel writer, I m going to think, Wow, that s amazing. She got up at noon. She had a mojito. She ate an amazing meal and then she went to her very comfy bed.

[24:34] What does a day actually look like for Sue White on the road?

A day in the life of a travel writer

Sue:

[24:38] You know, it depends if the story was simply to write a review about a hotel, it may almost look like that. I would probably be staying I probably wouldn t be staying just one night.

[24:53] I d be probably trying to stay two nights because you kind of lose the first day when you get there anyway. So I d probably have 36 hours there to do it.

[25:02] There would inevitably be something interesting in the morning, like a beautiful buffet breakfast out by the pool. I do a lot of wellbeing writing. That means I m up at yoga classes that holiday yoga, they re pretty kind and that tends to not start until 8:00. But if it s a serious yoga experience, then you are in a class by 7:00.

[25:25] By the time you re at breakfast, you ve done a couple of hours of exercise or something. It s all very lovely things to do, but it s not necessarily lying around having a sleep in.

[25:37] The other thing I ll be doing if I m there doing a story on a hotel, is I would also be doing other stories. Yes, I might be doing a story on that hotel, but I m probably also going on a bird watching tour for a story for someone else. That leaves it at, you know, quarter til 7:00.

[25:59] I m up and out and then I m back at 11:00. Then I ll do lunch and the marketing manager will come and meet me for lunch and give me a bit of a brief for the hotel. And they ll want to show me around all the different rooms, which you need to do to be polite.

[26:14] It s not always necessary, because really I could get that from their website, which is probably a better use of my time.

[26:23] In the afternoon I m either doing some sort of experience at the hotel. Again, if I m doing wellbeing stuff, in a way this is nice because you get to go off and have some sort of nice spa treatments and thing like that. If not I ll be off doing some other activity in the town.

[26:39] You come back. You tend to have pre-dinner drinks with someone else and then dinner. Then on and on it goes. There actually isn t a lot of lying around.

[26:51] The thing is there s lying around then you tend to be thinking, Ooh, do I need to be taking some photos of this? or Ooh, I should just catch up on my notes? and you end up sitting and scrawling in a notebook.

[27:04] I wouldn t actually say it s relaxing. On the other hand it is an amazing life experience. There are very few people you can complain to about it. [laughs]

Steven:

[27:14] That s really true. The first travel story I ever did, I was doing it for an American airline magazine. They needed me to It was one of those stories where you had to be a local and they wanted me to place their readers in a hotel. I had to stay in a hotel.

[27:28] I phoned the Peninsula in Hong Kong and said, Look, this is the gig and I need a night in the hotel. The PR woman said, Oh, well we ll think about it, and I ll get back to you. I d never done this before.

[27:40] She phones up the next day and says, Look, we ve had a think about it. Her voice was like there s a problem. I m like, oh god, she s going to say how dare you be so cheeky.

[27:48] She said, We don t think you can fully appreciate the hotel in one night. Would you mind staying for two? We re going to send a Rolls Royce to come and pick you up. I ve spent 17 years trying to recreate that experience.

[28:02] [laughter]

Steven:

[28:03] That has never happened again.

Sue:

[28:06] I could give you a number of moments like that where you are just like this is pretty done, great. There are also moments where you are trying to convince someone that it is worth it for them to support you.

[28:25] I ve had people question me over needing to do a surf lesson that would cost them $30 as a part of a story. I ve had other people where I ve stayed at their place for five nights and on the fifth day This was another retreat and it was beautiful and in the rainforest. The whole thing was food and everything.

[28:45] On the fifth day they said, Look, we just feel you ve been a bit busy while you ve been here. I was off exploring, doing other stories in the meantime. They said, You haven t really had any time to just sit around in the hammock. Would you stay another two nights?

[29:04] I didn t because I felt ethically that actually I had enough material. I knew I was at that point. I was like, I would love to but I would just be kicking back, so I can t.

[29:18] The funniest part was that they said, Oh I met your [inaudible 29:23] friend in town. I said, We ve got a travel writer staying with us at the moment. They said, Oh right. Is she real? Is she the real thing? The woman said, Oh, I don t know.

[29:35] I said, Well, didn t you check when I asked you if I could come and stay? I sent you the link to my website. You could see the thing

[29:42] She said, Oh, yeah, I didn t bother checking that. I just trusted you. On the one hand you have these people who will question you over a $30 surf lesson then other people who will just take it on faith. It s an interesting exercise in observing people.

Steven:

[30:02] When I was doing over-the-air travel features for Virgin in-flight entertainment, the only company that asked me to prove my bona fides was Sydney Harbor Bridge Climb. We had nights in hotels, degustation meals, everybody just took me at my word.

[30:21] I think there is a certain way journalists speak to you on the phone that PR people recognize as a signal.

Sue:

[30:29] Yes, we do tend to get to the point fairly quickly.

Steven:

[30:33] And have a terrible sense of entitlement. Where are you off to next?

Sue:

[30:38] I am off to Europe, actually. I m off to Europe for six weeks, five countries and one small baby. It should be quite interesting.

Steven:

[30:52] Will the baby be part of the angle or is the baby in the background?

Sue:

[30:54] Yes, of course. The baby is. I m doing a whole bunch of stories on major European cities with a baby for a kid-focused magazine. I m doing another story on flying with a baby and I m doing another story on packing gear.

[31:15] I will be aiming to do some non-baby focused stories while I m there, but given that he is there and has to be looked after, I m waiting until I see on the ground what else happens. See what I m able to do before I get too engrossed in, too deep in pitching other stories.

Steven:

[31:37] People can work with you, Sue. I m guessing the baby is optional. Where appropriate, he comes to work. I know that they can find out more about you at suewhite.com.au but if people want to work with you and get the benefit of your experience, whether its travel writing and a sense of place for your writing or anything else, how can they work with you?

Sue:

[32:01] The best way is to contact me through my website. I do tend to do I mostly focus on journalistic things. I might write a bunch of features for someone to appear on their blog, for example.

[32:17] Interview a whole swag of Swiss CEOs, make them sound engaging. I do quite like doing that work, but my primary work is journalism and travel, so anything involving interviewing or crafting a story, they can certainly contact me. Always happy

Steven:

[32:41] Well Sue, thank you very much for talking to us today.

Sue:

[32:43] A pleasure. Thank you.

Steven:

[32:45] You ve been listening to Talemaking from Taleist. Make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing to our mailing list at Taleist.com. That s tale, as in telling tales, taleist.com.

[32:57] Go over to the podcast section and you ll find a sign-up form there. We also have a library of bonus material exclusively for subscribers so do head over to taleist.com and sign up now.

[33:09] Until next time, I ve been Steven Lewis and thank you for listening.

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