0:02

this is the humanity that pervades

0:04

our sector

0:05

why did I say that?

0:06

none of it is shocking It's fine

0:14

Welcome to Tales from the Departure Lounge.

0:17

This is a podcast about travel for

0:19

business, for pleasure, or

0:21

for study. My name's Nick

0:23

and I'm joined by my co-pilot, Andy.

0:26

And together we're gonna be talking to some amazing

0:28

guests about how travel has transformed

0:31

their. So sit back,

0:33

relax, and enjoy the journey.

0:36

Welcome to the podcast.

0:38

Today on the show we speak

0:41

to jeff williams. He's the ceo

0:43

and founder of enrollee

0:45

he's a risk taker.

0:47

Yeah, this is an episode about risk for sure.

0:49

he took a risk being a very early

0:51

sponsor for this podcast.

0:53

What a fool.

0:54

It's the best money he's ever spent, is what he said.

0:56

That's the quote we've got, which we're keeping.

0:58

He takes us on safari talks about

1:00

observing the brutality of nature

1:02

And driving through the night in Cameroon.

1:05

he's a founder and this isn't his first

1:07

company. He's failed in the past.

1:09

he had a TV production company

1:11

whilst he was a student.

1:12

a natural entrepreneur

1:14

he talks about becoming a Londoner. And

1:16

then a Northerner. He became the

1:18

head of international at the University

1:20

of Bolton at the age of 24.

1:23

very young boss and he tells us a story

1:26

about Drunkenness in China

1:28

that what would it only happen if you're young? I don't

1:30

know. It's a good story He's the risk taking

1:32

founder who's set up shop in the UK. From

1:35

the Masai Mara to China via Bolton,

1:37

let's get some Tales from the Departure lounge from

1:39

Geoff Williams.

1:41

It was possibly the rudest thing I've ever

1:43

done in my life. And I just went, Oh my God, I'm a

1:45

Londoner now. for 49 pounds,

1:47

it gives you a business class kind of feeling

1:49

gets you off on the right foot Everyone's

1:52

full of ideas, it's just very rare

1:55

that people are crazy enough to take it

1:57

on. That is going to sound terrible. You definitely

1:59

need to cut that, cut that out. That cannot

2:02

be one of your clips, seriously. I'm

2:04

also slightly fearful of what we've said today and

2:06

I've spent nearly seven years building and rolling

2:09

and I'm starting to think, why am I even here, frankly?

2:13

Why would I, why would I risk this?

2:18

So before we get into the episode, a quick word

2:20

about our latest sponsor. Most

2:22

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now let's get on with the episode

3:36

Jeff, welcome to the show. It's great to have you on.

3:38

Thank you so much. Long time listener.

3:41

You are, would say, the

3:43

most important podcast in the

3:45

UK higher education industry. At

3:47

least top five, at least. I

3:50

think it's great what you guys are doing. I was an early sponsor.

3:53

and I remember at one point,

3:55

Nick, sorry, Andy, he said, what do

3:57

you think about a podcast would

3:59

I be his co host

4:02

I feel like I've just been cheated on.

4:05

I think my answer was, I think it's a

4:07

great idea. But not for

4:09

me.

4:10

show me the money, I think was your response.

4:13

You guys have a solid relationship. You have nothing

4:15

to be worried about.

4:16

Nick. I didn't know this about you. The

4:19

first question we always ask our guests is,

4:22

if you could take our audience anywhere in the world,

4:24

where would it be and why?

4:26

Like many of your guests spent a good decade

4:28

traveling the world for work

4:30

and then also obviously for pleasure, but I

4:32

think I have to settle on Kenya. it's

4:34

one of those places that exceeded

4:36

my expectations. To a level

4:39

that I didn't know expectations could be

4:41

exceeded, and I'm speaking, specifically

4:44

about a safari I did in

4:46

the Masai Mara, it was one of those things

4:48

where, I thought I was going to the zoo,

4:50

it was going to be a zoo without fences, the

4:53

way it works is you take a small

4:55

aircraft from Nairobi, which

4:57

is a little bit scary, and you land in a

5:00

dusty, tarmac, and

5:02

the Masai Mara meet you there, and

5:04

at that point you become aware that you are now

5:06

just in the open wilderness,

5:09

you start to get that feeling of, okay,

5:12

This isn't a zoo. This is real. You

5:14

do a drive in the early morning and the evening

5:16

and then in the day you come back and have lunch and drinks.

5:19

it's a great trip from a format perspective

5:21

But when we first drove out, we drove

5:23

out into this herd, of I'd say 50

5:26

elephants that were the size

5:28

of houses and we just drove

5:30

into the middle and it was this Jurassic Park

5:33

esque moment and from there,

5:35

it just escalated this trip. it just

5:37

got crazier and crazier and the amount of learning

5:39

that you do as well. there's these little,

5:42

antelope, they're like, 30 centimetres

5:44

high and they're called dick dicks and

5:47

the Masai Mara guide starts talking about it and

5:49

there's a few of them in pairs and he's like they actually

5:51

are monogamous and they mate for life

5:53

and you see that one over there that's half falling

5:55

over, his or her mate once

5:57

they die they actually get so depressed

6:00

because of their monogamy they actually

6:03

starve themselves. to death And

6:05

it's just this endless mind

6:07

blowing experience. there was another

6:09

time we, um, there's sort of a herd of

6:11

buffalo and then some lions

6:13

off to the side. And the

6:15

driver just put us in position, between

6:18

the lions and the buffalo as they were walking by.

6:21

And he just said, let's wait for the last

6:23

Buffalo. And sure enough, the

6:25

lions were literally just sitting

6:27

there having cocktails, waiting for

6:29

this, this last Buffalo. And then they

6:31

all just got up and boom, absolute

6:34

carnage. And we're talking, meters

6:36

from the car And it's just one of

6:38

the most visceral experiences

6:42

seeing it on TV in your own home,

6:44

you're like, oh, the Buffalo, all the

6:46

poor dick dick but, that reality,

6:48

this is the economy, this is how this

6:50

works here A brutal experience.

6:53

You realize how brutal nature is. You

6:55

see it very close up.

6:57

There's a guy called Mahul Shah. you might've

6:59

heard of him. That has run a lot of industry

7:02

out in Nairobi, around recruitment

7:04

and missions and offshoring

7:06

and TNA and various things. And he actually,

7:09

got me a discount. He knows one of the owners

7:11

of the parks. So, the value

7:13

of this sector, the friends you make around

7:15

the world, I've got a three year old and I'm like,

7:17

I can't wait. To take him on safari.

7:20

And we had to look at the price of a

7:22

glamping Masai Mara holiday.

7:24

And, it's in the tens of thousands of pounds

7:27

now. So I may never go again. So my son may

7:29

have to just hear the story. We'll listen to the podcast.

7:31

did you go on any walking tours? where

7:34

you literally walk out with a guide and a rifle.

7:36

Yeah, we had a couple of, little picnics,

7:39

where they would stop and you would get out and it

7:41

just felt wrong on, on

7:44

so many levels. I have this philosophy

7:46

in life when it comes to danger. I'm a,

7:48

I'm a reasonable risk taker, but, it's

7:50

actually my co founder who

7:53

put this idea in my head from a previous company.

7:55

It was a film production company and we were filming in

7:57

the mountains and It was dodgy

8:00

weather and we were going to take a helicopter

8:02

and film and my

8:05

co founder that company who's also my

8:07

co founder at enrollee he really

8:09

didn't want to do it and i was like why not and he

8:11

says i don't know i just feel like if you die

8:14

and then this when the story gets told

8:17

people go yeah that makes sense you

8:19

probably shouldn't do it. And that's how

8:21

I felt in the Masai Mara.

8:23

It was almost like if we die and

8:26

then someone tells the story of, why did they die?

8:28

Well, I had a picnic. They went and watched

8:30

lions eat buffalo, and

8:33

then they got out and they had a picnic. Like,

8:35

I don't think people are going to have sympathy for

8:37

me,

8:37

You may have been the picnic.

8:39

yeah, I mean, the Maasai Mara are very

8:42

confident, they drive the cars and they're

8:44

guides. but when they leave work,

8:46

they just walk out the front gate. And they walk

8:49

to their village. And I said to my driver

8:52

where is your village? So how far are you walking?

8:54

And he of said, Oh, it's a few miles. And

8:57

I was like, what do you do if you're

8:59

faced with a lion? And he

9:01

basically said, you just

9:03

stand there and put your hands behind your back. And

9:05

then the lion doesn't know what you've got behind your back.

9:07

And you just hold your ground. So what does he

9:09

think? You might have a machine gun, you know,

9:12

how do you find that out?

9:14

I guess one of your early ancestors is

9:16

screaming as they're being eaten., I

9:18

took my hands out from behind my back.

9:20

Don't do that. So

9:22

how long were you there for?

9:24

I think it was about five

9:26

or six days from memory. It's going back a while now. It was

9:28

my early days of moving to the

9:30

UK. I really did not intend to stay, but really

9:32

love the UK. It was one of my options,

9:34

actually, of where we're going today I think the UK

9:36

gets a lot of stick but I think,

9:39

it is an incredible place and so much opportunity

9:41

here. And I wouldn't have a company like enrollee.

9:43

I don't think,, perhaps anywhere else.

9:46

I don't know. I can get on a train from London and

9:48

get to 100 universities

9:50

a few hours. It's quite a unique set

9:52

up.

9:52

do you feel welcome here though, Jeff? Because you're one

9:54

of these pesky immigrants

9:57

that, comes over and sets up a

9:59

successful company, creates lots of jobs,

10:01

I mean, what the hell are you doing

10:03

I think London took a while

10:06

to get used to, because being Australian,

10:08

a bit of casual chit chat to strangers

10:10

is not unusual. I remember the first

10:12

morning I was here, I went

10:15

into a busy cafe. And

10:17

this woman came up behind me and physically

10:19

moved me and scoffed something along

10:22

the lines of block the walkway. That

10:24

was my sort of immediate, keep London

10:26

moving, introduction. The

10:28

day I became a Londoner, I was working at

10:30

Brunell, university at the Navitas

10:33

Pathway College. And I,

10:35

I reckon I was about six months in and I got on

10:37

the Metropolitan Line from Oxbridge

10:39

into London. Brune, they tell you they're

10:42

based in London. they technically are though. I'll give

10:44

them that. Anyway, I'm on this train and and

10:46

someone came and sat down next to me and

10:48

they started speaking to me with

10:50

just enough madness

10:53

that I just stood up, didn't

10:55

say anything, got off the train,

10:57

walked another carriage and just got on.

10:59

It was possibly the rudest thing I've

11:02

ever done in my life. That's my peak rudeness.

11:04

And I just went, Oh my God, I'm a Londoner now.

11:06

Ah, it's so sad. it's

11:09

Crocodile Dundee, isn't it? It says good morning to everyone

11:11

your, Your naivety it's been rubbed off

11:13

by London and its brutality.

11:15

within a year and a half I ended up in Bolton,

11:17

which was a sea change and the North

11:20

was more of my people,, from a chitchat

11:22

perspective. I had to unlearn my

11:24

new London skills, I was only 24

11:26

I think at the time and it was for

11:28

head of international and it was one of those

11:31

oh, I'll just chuck in an application

11:33

situation but at the time, did

11:35

not fully understand how far it was.

11:38

And then got shortlisted and then realized, oh, this is a

11:40

literally a different, geographical area

11:42

I can't commute this.

11:44

You can't come up here being all London.

11:46

I never gave up on London. I was actually

11:49

maintaining a share house in London and

11:51

a share house in Bolton, I was the

11:53

head of international living in a student house

11:55

with undergraduate students. We would go

11:57

out and, I would just pay

12:00

for the night because pints were like a

12:02

pound or whatever, these cheap bars,

12:04

I was just some kind of sugar daddy for, that's,

12:06

I was going to say for students, but that is going to

12:08

sound terrible. You definitely need to cut that,

12:11

cut that out. That cannot be one of your clips,

12:13

seriously.

12:15

That's going to be on all the promos. Sugar Daddy

12:17

Jeff.

12:18

you became the head of international for Bolton

12:20

with no idea where it was. I'd

12:23

like to say you just called out Brunel for saying

12:25

it's not quite in London. Were you pitching

12:27

that Bolton was part of Manchester? Yes

12:29

you were.

12:30

Shivani is going to kill me, isn't she? it's the best

12:32

of London, I would say, Brunel. Because you've got

12:34

the space, but you've got the accessibility. So

12:36

let's, let's move on from that one. But, um,

12:39

yeah, I wouldn't say I didn't, I sort

12:41

of knew, but Didn't fully accept because I didn't I

12:43

didn't think I'd get an interview but

12:45

then it just kept spiraling out of control and

12:48

um yeah I eventually got off of this job

12:50

and by then I well and truly knew that it

12:52

was uh involved and where that was.

13:14

I wanted to go a little bit back to Africa.

13:16

your safari, whether it is a like

13:19

misappropriation of Africa it

13:21

felt like the wilderness, whether there was

13:23

still a fence somewhere and

13:25

it was kept that way just for you.

13:27

The misappropriation is, an interesting concept.

13:30

I think they do a fantastic

13:32

job of, balancing that commercial

13:35

tourism without putting fences

13:37

up. I remember once in Cameroon and

13:39

West Africa on the other side, I was

13:41

there on a work trip. And I ended up

13:43

on this, this beach restaurant.

13:46

it was like a rickety wooden,

13:48

jetty type thing. It was quite large

13:50

and ocean level, like sitting just above the water.

13:53

And these guys were pole fishing. Straight

13:55

out of the ocean, into the restaurant,

13:57

which there was like fire pits and people

13:59

were then cleaning the fish and then

14:01

cooking it. And then you're eating it with your hands. And

14:04

it was costing you know, barely a pound,

14:06

end to end. And I just thought I don't know how

14:08

much money people would pay for

14:10

that experience if they knew how

14:12

to get there. It's one of those memories where

14:14

it's just unbelievable,

14:16

good food just sticks in my mind,

14:18

On that particular trip in Cameroon though, I

14:20

did also do something that I do

14:22

not recommend, which is drive.

14:25

Oh god, I can't, is it Yaounde

14:27

and Douala? Does that sound right? the two cities?

14:29

I apologize to Cameroonians

14:31

if that's wrong, but I drove

14:34

between those two cities. I took a car

14:37

and it turned out you should not do that

14:39

at night. Turns out you just shouldn't do

14:41

it full stop, but I did. And

14:43

the reason you should not do it is it's a very

14:46

thin road with no lights

14:49

and logging trucks

14:51

are going back and forth. At a rate

14:53

of knots. So I want

14:56

to say maybe three hours drive,

14:58

a logging truck with blazing

15:00

headlights coming towards my

15:02

tiny little car. And if

15:05

you got to, I don't know, year eight physics,

15:07

you understand. the inertia

15:09

that a logging truck has against

15:12

a small car. So every

15:15

time I just thought I was

15:17

going to die and halfway

15:19

through we really

15:22

slowed down and there was lots of commotion

15:24

and unfortunately there was an

15:26

actual dead body on

15:28

the road. So a pedestrian had

15:30

been hit and it was

15:32

one of those real shocking moments. Just

15:34

literal death and potential death around

15:37

me.

15:37

Just like when you were a picnic as well, you realize

15:39

how close you could be, um, to death.

15:42

Makes you feel a little bit more invincible, a little

15:44

bit more, alive, I guess.

15:45

Youth is important though. When you

15:48

you're in your twenties, like early thirties,

15:50

you don't, you don't necessarily consider

15:53

those risks. Are we all over 40 by the way? Have we

15:55

all crossed that threshold? Yeah.

15:57

Unfortunately. Yeah.

15:58

but does this still happen? I know recruitment

16:00

trips still happen. But, are we better

16:02

now as an industry? Is it safer? Is it

16:04

more organized?

16:05

We need to get some younger, staff

16:07

on some international officers who are,

16:10

not adverse to danger, because they

16:12

aren't in their forties and don't have children

16:13

They're all out there living guys.

16:15

Yeah. recording podcasts about

16:17

it. They're doing it. Yeah. The

17:00

next session of the podcast is called Any Laptops,

17:02

Liquids, or Sharp Objects? Have

17:04

you got any traveller's advice or hacks

17:06

that you use when you're travelling?

17:08

Can I give you two sets? I think under 40,

17:11

I've got different hacks. So I don't want to hide

17:13

my under 40 hacks from your

17:15

younger listeners. I think under 40,

17:17

I used to love, a roll

17:19

don't fold. With your clothes and

17:21

I would always go for a full carry on

17:24

approach. I used to love the challenge

17:26

of a two or three week trip, full

17:28

carry on. It's the ultimate achievement

17:31

if you can do that. You'll just feel like a hero when

17:33

everyone's waiting for bags and you're just bang,

17:35

in and out of airports. another

17:37

thing I used to do, especially with time difference

17:39

trips is straight to the gym. Soon

17:41

as you get in, like no matter what pain.

17:44

or agony or jet lag

17:46

or hunger or

17:49

hungover from that beer you shouldn't add on the

17:51

plane, just straight to the gym to break

17:53

into the, time zone. and

17:55

the other trick from the younger

17:58

years was I'd always set a wake up

18:00

call. In the morning. I set a wake

18:02

up call for tomorrow based on what tomorrow's

18:05

agenda is just in case, you stumble

18:07

across five other, international

18:10

offices in the bar and have

18:12

that moment where you're still having drinks

18:14

at, 2 a. m. And you've

18:16

just forgotten that you've got a meeting that

18:18

starts at 8 30 a. m. Also pre

18:20

order a coffee as well.

18:23

So you get the double sort of belt braces

18:25

security that you're going to wake up and you get a

18:27

coffee, delivered.

18:29

Wake up calls still a thing. They feel

18:31

quite analogue.

18:32

This is like the old timers. We're not even that old.

18:34

I mean, there's going to be people that are like, these

18:36

guys are a bunch of jokers, but yeah,

18:39

I think they have phones in hotels.

18:40

Hang on. I just need to call the talking clock.

18:43

Find out what time it is.

18:45

and then my over 40, my wife,

18:47

if I'm giving a nod to her, I've traveled back to

18:49

Australia to see my family once a year, but she

18:51

is the queen of admin. Holding things together.

18:54

she's so good. I feel like I'm almost

18:56

a dignitary when I travel because I

18:59

don't get to hold passports and things like that. She's

19:01

got it all organized. there's

19:03

manila folders and there's plans.

19:05

And, I just walked through, almost

19:07

just shaking strangers hands really, because

19:10

I have so little to do. And

19:12

then, Oh, this is good. This is one

19:14

of my favorites, I think of all time.

19:16

There are these companies and

19:18

there's one I've used called BagBuddy. So

19:21

what they do, two bags,

19:24

49 pounds, they will come

19:26

to your house, pick it up,

19:29

take it to the airport and check it in for

19:31

you. So your job now,

19:33

when you go to the airport, is

19:35

just to simply arrive assuming

19:38

you're pre checked in. You can

19:40

actually just treat it like a short haul flight,

19:42

just walking straight to security. And, for

19:44

49 pounds, it gives you a business

19:47

class kind of feeling gets you that off

19:49

on the right foot versus, you

19:51

guys have kids, traveling, long haul with kids,

19:54

it's, a bit of a nightmare when you've got those massive

19:56

suitcases as well as all their stuff

19:58

so that's a really nice tip. I think

20:00

is this a London thing? Do you think they operate in rural

20:02

Nottinghamshire?

20:03

I'm going to assume,

20:05

no,

20:06

If they do, it's probably slightly more than 49 pounds.

20:09

We're giving bag buddy a pretty big plug here. I

20:11

feel like we should get some kind of credits,

20:13

maybe a sponsor for you guys.

20:15

don't think we can judge it. So we've tried it

20:17

true. If you do implement

20:19

bag buddy, your wife might start to wonder

20:21

what you do around here.

20:23

I'm feeling quite redundant at the best

20:25

of times.

20:28

I do have a story I

20:30

think is one of my best stories I was sort

20:32

of thinking do I want to share this because it's

20:34

it is one of those stories that I'm

20:36

not sure how I look in

20:38

it, I'm I'm fairly certain. I'm fine though. Let's

20:40

go. So I'm in a place, northern

20:43

China, on a work trip. So

20:45

this is when I was at Bolton as the head of international.

20:47

And I was there with one of my, colleagues,

20:50

uh, who's a staff member. And

20:53

we have this lunch and it was a traditional

20:56

Chinese type lunch with the

20:58

gumby and the drinking. And

21:01

it, it turned out with me being quite

21:03

heavily targeted, from a drinking

21:05

perspective. And for those who don't know, in

21:07

the Chinese culture, you'll, you'll

21:09

often stand up and, you know, ask someone

21:11

to drink with you and you say gumby and you

21:14

drink and you have a shot together. however,

21:16

if there's 10 people and all 10 people.

21:19

effectively ask you. the younger

21:21

version of me agrees and drinks.

21:23

So we had this quite a big

21:26

session I've drunk way too much

21:28

in too short a period of time. I

21:30

can almost feel Like the clock

21:32

ticking where I'm going to start to lose motor

21:34

skills. So, um, I'm not going

21:36

to say her name. I shouldn't say her name. Um,

21:39

she works in the industry still. Let's call her mystery

21:42

lady and so mystery lady

21:44

she's not in a great state either. And she's like, we really

21:46

need to go. Um, we need to get to the airport

21:48

because we're going, I think we're into Shanghai I

21:51

can't exactly remember, but it was one of the biggest cities

21:54

and I'm now semi saying

21:56

we're fine. Like we will be, we don't need to leave

21:58

now. And I'm sort of ignoring her

22:01

saying, Oh, be okay. And then eventually.

22:04

I realized, no, no, we really have to leave, don't we? Okay.

22:06

So we rush to the airport and

22:09

they take our bags, check us in standing

22:11

there. We could sort of see some commotion. Then

22:14

all of a sudden the bags come back, the boarding

22:16

cards come back, and they say, sorry, you can't get

22:18

on the plane. It's too, it's too late. So

22:21

there was sort of this sort of zone where we weren't

22:23

sure whose fault it was. And in the end

22:25

they said, we'll take the blame. And we're. In

22:28

a part of China where English is not great and

22:30

they end up offering one of these airport

22:32

hotels. And they gave us 100,

22:35

equivalent compensation And

22:38

so we get to the hotel and it was. at

22:40

this point, though, we're just feeling horrendous and it's

22:42

getting late. then they assume that Mystery

22:45

Lady and I are together. So they

22:47

try and put us in the same room. We're like, no, no, we need separate

22:49

rooms, and I only found this out afterwards, but

22:52

I agreed that we wouldn't

22:54

pay any extra money to have

22:56

the rooms that we were taking separately

22:58

to ourself guaranteed. I

23:00

definitely didn't hear this at the point

23:03

where this was being explained in very broken

23:05

English. So we go to respective rooms.

23:08

And I just lay down on

23:10

the bed. I'm still shirt shoes. I just

23:12

lay on the bed. I'm like, like, thank God that's

23:15

over I fall asleep and

23:17

I wake up to people

23:19

in my room. Right. So look

23:21

up there's like three people in my

23:23

room, And I get up, and I just have this sort of like,

23:25

arms wide, drunken moment. I'm just going

23:27

to get them all out. I kind of just scoop

23:30

them all out of my room, into the hallway.

23:32

And at this point I realize I've scooped out

23:34

what appears to be, a

23:36

set of, sex worker, a traveling

23:39

gentleman with a big box

23:41

of like bizarre stuff and a security

23:44

guard, from the hotel. And

23:46

so I'm like, what is happening right now?

23:48

And basically I start to understand that he's

23:50

trying to check in this

23:52

man and woman

23:55

into my room, into the

23:57

other single bed with me. And I'm like,

23:59

okay. No, this

24:02

does not sound like it's going to,

24:04

to happen. So, I

24:06

start to understand, I'm like, so what, so

24:08

at this point, remember, I don't know that I've agreed

24:10

that other people can come in my room. I only find this

24:13

out from mystery lady who was actually

24:15

listening to what was being told before.

24:17

So, I then begin to understand

24:19

that I've not got the room to myself and I need to pay

24:22

20 US dollars. to get the room

24:24

to myself. I'm like, that's fine. We can arrange

24:26

this. Go in my room. I've got no, no

24:29

cash, no way to pay. So

24:31

I then have to go to

24:33

my colleague staff

24:35

member. I'm meant to be the one in charge, you know,

24:37

technically of this, this, this event.

24:39

Right. And I have to

24:41

knock on her door lots of men

24:43

knocking on doors. Am I the man on knocking on doors in hotels?

24:47

I'm wearing clothes though. So I knock on the door.

24:50

You know, fully clothed, just to clarify, um,

24:53

and she opens the door to

24:55

me, a sex worker, a

24:58

traveling gentleman, and a security

25:00

guard. I've

25:03

never seen someone judge.

25:06

me in real time. cause as you can

25:08

imagine, it looks like I'm caught up in some

25:10

kind of mad, pimp type

25:12

scenario, right? Where I'm now needing

25:14

money. to solve. So I'm trying

25:16

to explain what's happened while also trying

25:18

to ask for money from,

25:21

my colleague. And she's

25:23

like I'm quitting, I'm leaving just the look

25:26

of what have you done? And so

25:28

she eventually gives me the money. I sort out this

25:30

situation. In the morning, I

25:32

managed to explain and she, she accepts

25:35

that this is the truth and we

25:37

proceed to the airport. Casual

25:39

clothes, very hung over. for some reason,

25:41

the airline did not put anyone's luggage

25:43

on the plane. So we flew to our next

25:46

meeting. I then left my laptop in

25:48

the seat pocket in front of me. And

25:50

we had to go straight to meetings and I was

25:52

in shorts and a t shirt with no

25:55

bags, no laptop. We

25:57

somehow got through this day. But then we went to this really,

25:59

amazing five star hotel. We

26:02

go to check in. Sorry, we're completely

26:04

booked, but we've, we've upgraded

26:06

you, to your own suite again.

26:08

So they're trying to put us back together again.

26:10

And at this point, we're like, Oh my God, we're not, we're

26:13

not together. And at this point, she's like, and I definitely

26:15

don't want to be anywhere near this guy.

26:17

Yeah, that's

26:18

knows what's in store. In the end, they're like, no,

26:20

we have no other space. And we ended

26:22

up getting upgraded, to the presidential

26:24

suite in this incredible

26:26

hotel. And we did agree

26:29

then to stay in the same room

26:31

because it was a literal presidential

26:33

suite with many bedrooms and like saunas

26:36

and steam rooms. But this was the most amazing hotel room

26:38

I think I've ever seen. To the point where I walked

26:40

in and I said, I'll take this room. almost

26:43

calling rank, like this is amazing.

26:45

And it turned out it was the smallest room in

26:47

the entire, Penthouse suite. So, so

26:50

yeah, hopefully I don't come off too badly, but it's definitely

26:52

one of the most bizarre 30 hours

26:55

I've had on the road.

26:56

By Joe is a terrible drink.

26:58

Yeah.

26:59

it started.

27:00

It goes down so easy though, doesn't it? When you're in

27:02

the zone and you, you hit that hero mode

27:04

It's definitely one of those time bomb drinks where

27:07

you drink it, you feel fine, and then all of a sudden

27:09

you really don't feel fine. Yeah.

27:12

Kids, this is the former international

27:15

director of the university of Bolton,

27:17

Yeah. But I mean, listening to the podcast

27:19

and everyone's experiences, you have that element

27:21

of, wow, that must be unique. And then the

27:24

more people talk, you're like, Oh, wow. Okay.

27:26

Yeah. This is not unique at all. It seems it's

27:29

par for the course for some reason.

27:31

love random ones Cause you never quite

27:34

know where it's going to go.

27:35

I'm also slightly fearful of what we've said today

27:37

and I've spent nearly seven years building

27:39

and rolling and I'm starting to think, why am I even

27:41

here, frankly? Why

27:44

would I, why would I risk this?

28:13

The next section of the podcast is called what's

28:15

the purpose of your visit? So why do

28:17

you do what you do?

28:18

it's a big question, isn't it? some kids like

28:20

music and, other things. But I

28:22

always had a bizarre attraction

28:24

to entrepreneurship. My mother was

28:27

dabbled in various business

28:29

opportunities She was a nurse by

28:31

trade, but she would always quit

28:33

being a nurse. And would start

28:35

something. And I think that instilled

28:38

in me that it was possible, to

28:40

quit a career. And if you're good at

28:42

that career, you can always go back.

28:44

I think a lot of people do have great ideas

28:47

and you don't take them because of just pure

28:49

fear. I used to have a poster on

28:51

my wall that I made. I think I was like

28:53

13 or 14, maybe that said, what

28:56

can I provide and or

28:58

service that people will want

29:01

and or need very specific. and

29:03

I put this up at the end of my bed and then I

29:05

used to read Richard Branson's autobiography.

29:08

Repeatedly. And so I had loads

29:10

of. Little businesses all the time.

29:12

I think my most successful business. I remember was,

29:14

a and J mulberry fresh, my friend Ashley

29:17

in Australia. We had this mulberry tree

29:20

and we would package these mulberries

29:22

and we would sell them door to door in the suburbs

29:25

and they would sell reasonably well.

29:27

And then one day we stumbled across this

29:29

retirement village, which was

29:31

much smaller homes. Very close

29:34

together and we had this moment of like

29:36

our biggest problems right now are that people

29:38

are not home and that we have to walk

29:40

quite far between all these houses.

29:43

And so we're like, Oh, wow, I think that's where we should

29:45

target, and we just sold out I

29:47

didn't know it at the time, but that was product market

29:49

fit.

29:50

Did you expand your product line

29:52

from mulberries to other

29:54

items for the retirement home?

29:56

We did go into the ANJ car wash,

29:58

slightly contentious because I replaced Ashley

30:01

with Andrew, but I managed to keep the stickers

30:03

the same. We're still friends. I'm still

30:05

friends with Ashley and Andrew,

30:07

What did you sack

30:08

I traded him in for another friend who

30:10

also had a name starting with A. I

30:15

did go to university, and during

30:17

that time, I started a business.

30:20

and it wasn't meant to be a business, it was

30:22

meant to be a way

30:24

to go and do lots of extreme

30:26

sports for free by

30:29

filming them and creating a TV

30:31

show for a community television channel.

30:33

Yes.

30:34

A couple of my friends and my co founder

30:36

at Enroli was studying film

30:38

and television. And we just came

30:40

up with this idea of you guys have got access to

30:42

equipment at the university. we

30:44

all love jet skiing and skydiving.

30:47

We don't have the money to pay for this.

30:49

This community TV channel had launched

30:52

and we came up with this idea of creating a TV show called

30:54

extreme WA, which is Western

30:56

Australia, where I'm from. And the

30:58

idea being that we would just ring up these

31:00

places with very expensive activities

31:02

and say, Hey, we're filming this community

31:04

TV show. and it worked and

31:07

And this thing just spiraled to

31:09

the point where we, decided we're making

31:11

a series. we're only, 19

31:13

or so, so still very young. And and.

31:16

We put this series on and at the time there's

31:18

only five TV channels, right? We're

31:20

getting old in this chat, aren't we? What's happened?

31:23

There was like five channels, right? So this community

31:25

TV station was the sixth channel.

31:28

So it actually got pretty decent

31:30

viewership., we started to get recognized,

31:33

like people were actually watching this show.

31:35

and. What happened next was a producer

31:38

from the ABC, which is the kind of BBC

31:40

in Australia, called up and

31:42

he was a producer of a prime time sort of human

31:44

interest show called George Negus

31:47

Tonight, and he said, I've been watching your show.

31:49

And he said, how do you make it? It

31:51

was so cutting edge, he wasn't really

31:54

up to speed that you could make this now.

31:56

I saw an opportunity to flip

31:58

this to, well, if you think we're so great,

32:00

why don't you let us make a segment

32:02

for the show? And that can be the hook, you've handed

32:04

over the keys. to teenagers on

32:07

this national television show. And he was just like,

32:09

I love it. Let's do it. And so

32:11

we went out and we made

32:13

a segment called, generation

32:16

net, right? It's like 2000 and

32:18

it was at the time that the first viral

32:21

video came out. So we made this segment

32:23

kind of getting into all this stuff and

32:25

we took it in and they just were

32:27

blown away. And then they were like, can you do a

32:29

follow up? Like, what do you want to do next? And I'd

32:31

read an article in the paper, about

32:34

a student coming out as gay. And it became

32:36

this massive story. And we

32:38

contacted him and said, can we just follow you around,

32:40

and just talk about your life?

32:43

And we came with this content and they were just like,

32:45

this is amazing guys. So we picked up

32:47

this contract there and then

32:50

we had Fox Sports pick up our

32:52

extreme sports show. And by now we're like 20,

32:55

right? We've got this kind of functioning business

32:57

now that's pretty unwieldy. and

33:00

we then missed the pivot.

33:03

And this was our demise. We were editing there

33:05

and then turning around and watching online videos,

33:07

pre YouTube by the way, and we didn't

33:09

join the dots, we were very

33:12

obsessed with traditional editing. television

33:15

and we missed that there was this huge

33:17

online opportunity despite literally making

33:19

a segment called Generation Net. So the

33:22

Fox Sports thing dwindled away.

33:24

We were doing some commercial stuff but wasn't

33:27

paying the bills. And we ultimately when. Bankrupt,

33:30

as a business. So I'm now,, maybe

33:32

21 and I've got my first bankruptcy,

33:34

under my belt. And that

33:36

was the point where I thought, okay, I love this.

33:39

I can't do it again right away. Cause it takes a lot

33:41

out of you, I got a job at

33:43

Navitas. And they sent me to Malaysia

33:45

and I was like, okay, yeah, this

33:47

is pretty cool. And then spent the next 10

33:50

years in the sector fast forward to the

33:52

2017. leads me to enroll

33:54

off the back of working in

33:56

this incredible industry and seeing

33:58

the world.

34:31

The next section of the podcast is called anything to

34:33

declare. This is a free space for you to talk

34:35

about whatever you like.

34:36

I can talk about enrollee, just for people

34:38

who may not know, what we do, we are

34:40

a software company a platform

34:43

product, meaning that we sit

34:45

on top of a student management system,

34:47

for at a university and we effectively

34:49

handle what we would call the bottom of

34:51

funnel of international recruitment. Post

34:54

offer through to arrival and

34:56

we handle a combination of the conversion

34:58

and the compliance, of that workflow.

35:00

But I think one of the misunderstandings

35:03

in a way is, it's actually an industry platform.

35:05

And that's how we've always seen it. We're

35:07

building a platform for the industry

35:09

to collaborate. It

35:11

just so happens that the universities.

35:14

I want the biggest winners of that, but they're

35:16

actually also the nodes on the network

35:19

that make this platform work. we're approaching

35:22

70 odd universities. Now, about 1

35:24

in 3 students coming to the UK flows

35:26

through our platform. As far

35:28

as what I'd like to declare, We mix with a lot

35:30

of people at universities and

35:33

we see so much talent and

35:35

so many ideas in these universities.

35:38

And sometimes I just think, wow,

35:40

you've got so much opportunity

35:43

and potential. And, I'm talking

35:45

people who I think are capable of building

35:47

the next enrollee are floating around

35:49

out there. or, the next

35:51

big ed tech company. And

35:54

to pull it back to what we've been talking about is that

35:56

confidence to just quit your job.

35:58

Be aware that your first idea doesn't have

36:00

to be the idea. And

36:02

that's something I really wish I knew earlier.

36:04

That idea never evolves until you do

36:07

quit your job and let it evolve.

36:09

So I think, my declaration would be

36:12

anyone out there thinking. I'd

36:14

love to do that, but I'm shitting my pants

36:17

at the prospect of it. you

36:19

can get another job, you're probably

36:21

super talented already. The fact that you're thinking

36:23

about this, you've probably got the experience,

36:26

if it all does go wrong, it's

36:29

one of those learning points that you bring back to your

36:31

next job interview. Everyone's full

36:33

of ideas, it's just very rare

36:36

that people are crazy enough to take it

36:38

on.

36:38

You need to get out of the zoo and into, the real

36:40

safari. That's where all the good stuff happens.

36:43

the Cowies just brought that all together.

36:45

Wow. I feel like I need to go and see

36:48

a counselor though after this, because

36:50

we've gone to some deep places here.

36:52

Are we charging for this, Nick?

36:53

We just create a safe space for people to

36:55

open up and we record it and then

36:58

exploit it.

36:59

you were really not qualified. Jeff, thanks

37:01

so much for coming on the show. It's been great to have you.

37:03

Thanks for having me guys. Absolute pleasure.

37:10

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening.

37:12

As always I want to say a massive

37:15

thank you to the ambassador platform I

37:17

hope you're enjoying this series.

37:19

We have a new social media campaign.

37:22

People are sending us their travel

37:24

pictures and we're putting them all up online.

37:27

Or you can send them to as sick bag

37:29

tales from the departure lounge.com.

37:32

Safe travels. Tales from the Departure

37:34

Lounge is a type nine production for

37:36

the pie.