0:15

Pushkin and

0:23

that family is one of those

0:26

things in life that

0:28

is so deeply

0:31

rooted that we survive tragedy

0:33

or heartbreak or whatever it is like and

0:36

we may take a new shape, but

0:39

like my parents are still my parents, you

0:41

know. Like that It

0:43

might not be everybody's experienced, but for I think

0:45

a lot of people like your family's

0:47

your family, and it's I find it incredibly

0:50

moving that we somehow survive.

0:55

That was Paul Dano obvious saying fragoso

0:58

and this is talking easy, Welcome

1:01

to the show.

1:23

For twenty years, Paul Dano has been

1:25

a revelation in front of the camera. He

1:28

began in l Ie, evolved

1:31

in Little Miss Sunshine, emerged

1:33

in There Will Be Blood, and transmuted

1:35

in Twelve Years of Slave. There

1:38

are plenty of other films before, in

1:40

between and after what I have listed

1:43

from Swiss Army Man, a study and comedic

1:45

Flatulence, to Love and Mercy,

1:48

an honest portrait of mental instability

1:50

in the form of Brian Wilson. At

1:53

thirty four, Dano has covered a lot

1:55

of ground, working with some of the

1:57

best living filmmakers we have Paul

2:00

Thomas Anderson, Kelly Reigart, Spike

2:02

Jones Bong jun Ho. If

2:05

you're familiar with the name or face, you

2:07

know all this, But now

2:09

there's a pivot in theaters. Coming

2:12

Friday, October nineteenth is

2:14

Wildlife, Dano's directorial

2:16

debut. Set in a

2:18

small town in nineteen sixties

2:21

Montana, the film is a raw,

2:23

familiar snapshot a teenage

2:25

boy stuck in the middle between

2:27

his father and mother, played by Jake

2:30

Jillen Hall and Carrie Mulligan. Here's

2:32

a bit from the trailer. Do

2:35

you know what they call trees in a forest fire fuel?

2:42

You know what they call the trees left up when the fire goes by.

2:46

They call them the standing dead.

2:53

Momstand okay? Of

2:56

course he is. His

2:59

pride got hurt. That

3:01

happens. Sometimes they

3:05

won't have to worry about anything. Joe. There

3:08

comes a time when Mann needs

3:10

something more to hang his hat off. Gots

3:14

homicide my head. I

3:16

need to do something about it. You

3:19

understand. Here's

3:22

what I can say about Wildlife without spoiling

3:25

the joys of this movie. It's

3:27

the kind of film that Hollywood often

3:29

refuses to make. Mature,

3:32

measured, vulnerable. The

3:35

writing by Dano and Zoe Kazan,

3:38

adapting from Richard Ford's novel

3:40

is rich and full of life. It's

3:43

not overly cloy or clever. What

3:46

I'm really trying to say is that you know it's

3:49

not full of shit. The characters

3:51

are people, and their conversations

3:53

are ones that you will think about as

3:56

you lie awake in bed or on

3:58

your morning commute to work. If

4:00

I'm being honest, I don't like to talk

4:02

about movies in this way

4:05

on Talk Easy anymore, and

4:07

that's probably because I no longer

4:10

identify with the role of the

4:12

critic. But this film deserves

4:14

an aberration. Wildlife

4:17

is something singular

4:20

and special. It has enough

4:22

heart to make up for the heartless films

4:24

that seem to constantly garner attention

4:26

and praise and box office success.

4:30

As you probably can tell, this movie

4:32

wore down my defenses. Sometimes

4:35

someone else's story can do that to you. So

4:39

that is the end of my rambling monologue.

4:43

The film comes out Friday, October

4:45

nineteenth. If you have the opportunity,

4:48

time, and means to

4:50

go see it, he absolutely should.

4:53

Until then here finally,

4:56

as Paul Dana,

5:10

what immediately struck me again

5:12

on a second viewing is

5:15

that you really did a great job

5:17

of capturing the

5:20

strange, disconnected

5:22

but also connected nature of the relationship

5:24

between the mom and the kid, which

5:27

you're blurring the lines throughout of like he

5:30

is a kid and she is a mom,

5:32

but she is revealing information to him

5:35

that is I think

5:37

for some parents that get worried. As

5:40

someone who's come from three divorces, this

5:42

was like perfect in my wheelhouse. So

5:46

I wanted to start there. Is

5:48

that something that's that stuck out to

5:51

you? Yeah, I mean, certainly on

5:53

a first read of this book called Wildlife

5:55

by Richard Ford, the Ginette character

5:58

was just so intoxicating

6:01

to me in a way because she was so

6:03

complicated and mysterious and

6:08

complex, and there was some feeling

6:11

like I have to understand her. I think

6:14

part of writing this film was trying to understand

6:16

Jerry and Jeannette, probably

6:18

in some way searching for understanding

6:21

of my own parents or even grandparents.

6:24

I really felt my

6:27

family and many families

6:30

in these characters. Specifically,

6:33

to answer your question for

6:36

me, the reveal of information is a really

6:38

integral part of like the film,

6:40

like this kind of the story language

6:42

or something and just

6:44

being a kid and suddenly

6:47

one day when you

6:49

realize your parents had a past life or

6:52

that their relationship is different than you thought

6:55

it was, or that your

6:57

parents struggle, or that you

7:00

know, and from my

7:02

own family, but even I remember that

7:06

feeling in like school, where it was like you hear something

7:08

about somebody's family, like wait, damn, but like

7:10

they seemed so happy or nice

7:12

or whatever. I've always

7:14

just sort of been that's like, that's

7:16

the film. It's like, here's a

7:19

portrait, and then the layers, you know,

7:22

get revealed in the context of

7:24

your life. You grew up in East Manhattan, you're

7:27

born in eighty four, your dad,

7:29

and you're smiling at me. Yeah, great,

7:32

I like East Manhattan. You're

7:34

smiling as I like. I feel like I feel

7:36

like, you know, I'm not sure somebody

7:38

from New York would say East Manhattan. I like it.

7:41

It's great, you're right. I was on the east side of You're

7:43

right. You know what I'm trying. I'm going for specificity

7:45

here. It's great. If I get

7:47

anything wrong, you can fact check me. Father

7:51

was a financial advisor, but

7:53

not for the one percent kind

7:55

of people, no, and he

7:57

he had several jobs. So that's

7:59

kind of like the easiest thing to say. I think sort of like

8:02

entrepreneur slash. She did some mistate managing

8:04

and but sort of a

8:06

few different jobs within like a financial field.

8:09

Right. So and your mother stays

8:11

home and works and helps out with you

8:13

and your sister. Yeah, once my sister with one. My mom

8:15

didn't work, you know, she was our mom.

8:17

What are the interiors like at

8:20

that house versus something in Wildlife?

8:23

Well, really really different esthetically

8:26

like meaning you know, when we lived in Manhattan,

8:29

we were in a one bedroom apartment. It was actually like

8:31

a size of a good good size for a one

8:33

bedroom, but it was bunk beds me and my sister

8:35

and my mom and down in the bed next to that. And

8:38

that was We are

8:40

a very close family, but that's also

8:43

a tough it was. I don't think it

8:45

was easy either. So we did okay, but

8:47

that you know had I'm sure

8:49

being in a long term relationship now myself,

8:52

and that would be really

8:54

hard, you know, on a relationships at an adult

8:56

I now sort of you know, see. Um, So we

8:58

did move to the suburbs at a certain point, which

9:01

also is esthetically much different than

9:03

Wildlife. But it was Connecticut. It

9:06

was the classic like commuter town, like one

9:08

hour from manhatt and a lot of people will

9:10

get on the Metro North go to work in the city.

9:12

You know, that kind of vibe. I do think that's where

9:16

though some of the feelings for me. There's a passage

9:19

in the book twenty something pages in

9:21

where this kid is watching his mom teaches swim class,

9:23

and he says the

9:27

writer says something like everybody

9:29

around her probably thinks like, oh, there's a woman with a good

9:31

figure, or there's a woman with a good smile, or

9:33

there's a woman who looks happy. But like the kid

9:35

kind of knew something was wrong,

9:38

you know, like at home it wasn't always like that, and

9:41

that sort of duality really

9:43

likes spoke to me. It felt, you know,

9:45

timeless actually, but it reminded me of experiencing

9:48

Connecticut with again, not just with my own

9:50

family, but with others. And

9:53

I think some sense of the American dream my parents,

9:55

my dad is older for somebody

9:58

my age, there's

10:01

something of that post war spirit

10:04

and the sense of the American dream, like things

10:06

are always better out there. Like

10:09

um, this feeling of you

10:12

know, there's a way that it's optimistic and I think

10:14

we need hope and I think we need goals.

10:17

But also sometimes you're you're,

10:19

um, what happens when suddenly

10:21

like you're present in your real life. If

10:23

it's like you know, you're always trying to get somewhere

10:25

else, and you spend your life trying to get somewhere

10:27

else, and so there's something about

10:30

this idea of like it's

10:33

out there and then the moment when

10:35

you realize, wait, no, this life's right

10:37

here, and it's you know, you wake up

10:39

one day and like life's going

10:41

by. Have you had that? I

10:45

don't know. I suppose I maybe

10:47

I had felt it more in them.

10:51

Do they ever communicate that

10:53

to you? Or were that your parents sort of look on it?

10:56

I would say we were

10:59

a family that did not talk

11:01

about those kinds of things, So

11:03

that is part of it, meaning you know, like you you

11:06

want things to be good, so

11:09

unless they're like obviously bad, you act

11:12

like they're good, which again I think

11:14

released that kind of post war spirit, like like if you look

11:16

at it, William Inelayer or Threw Miller, player's off

11:18

and like a character kind of like smiling when

11:21

things are bad. Do you know?

11:23

Yeah? And I find that heartbreaking. I

11:25

wanted to know at what age for you

11:28

did you figure out that

11:31

your parents are flawed. M

11:37

So. I think when you're

11:39

young, you know what you know, and

11:42

you normalize your situation

11:45

because that's what you know, so

11:47

and it's all you know. Yeah. So I now

11:50

looking back on certain things, right,

11:52

like oh, the one better apartment, Like I didn't know,

11:55

and again, we weren't like I don't want to make it sound

11:58

like we were like poor or something or you

12:00

know, it was just my dad's rent control apartment

12:02

and you know worked for that reason

12:04

for a period of time, you were getting by.

12:07

Yeah, And now I

12:09

look back and then think, oh, that that would

12:11

be hard for me to do with Zoe or with

12:13

my kids or if we you know, like and

12:16

I didn't know that at that time. So

12:19

I don't know if I know the age except

12:21

that, well,

12:24

was there an event? Well,

12:27

my parents weren't always together.

12:30

So that's part of what I think

12:32

the film is. That's

12:35

part of me in the film. You know, it comes from a book,

12:37

right, But I think much like I

12:39

do as an actor, Like the

12:42

goal is to put yourself through the thing.

12:44

And it changed from the book

12:46

and the writing process it becomes its own

12:49

script and then its own film. But

12:51

really you're you're putting a piece of yourself,

12:53

you know, through something else as

12:55

a means to

12:58

sort of make contact with something and work

13:00

with it. And then you hope by

13:03

making contact with something you

13:05

know personal, it then

13:07

does that for somebody else, write an audience

13:10

member. So I don't

13:12

know about one event. I

13:16

think it was more for

13:19

me how I responded, which is really

13:21

part of I think the spirit of the film is

13:24

that when it felt like things were shaking

13:27

a little bit, you know, or what however you would

13:29

describe it tumultuous, I was not

13:31

the kid who like acted out. I was a kid

13:33

who wanted to kind of like keep it together.

13:37

So I was like a steady presence, you know, much

13:39

like the kid Joe in the film is I

13:41

think this is my impression of it. Of course, my

13:44

sister might be the interpretation. Are

13:46

you you're older? I'm altering my sister's

13:49

two yars younger, And not

13:52

everybody relates to that, right. Some people are like,

13:55

you know, some

13:57

people would have handled that differently,

13:59

and they make a movie about

14:01

that. You know, something

14:04

you interrogate in the movie that

14:06

I had not really seen in too many movies is

14:09

I don't know you're talking about is

14:12

it okay for the

14:14

dynamic to be the

14:17

way it is, which is you

14:20

know, he leaves, she says

14:22

he has beautiful intentions. She says

14:24

they haven't been into him in a while. Can

14:28

that dynamic be healthy? I mean it's

14:30

a question I've asked myself for

14:33

a while. Yeah,

14:36

I mean, because she in a way

14:38

she needs him, She needs this like

14:40

the steady rock, which which seems like where

14:43

you were for your family in

14:45

some way. Yeah,

14:48

I mean it's

14:50

a tough question because is it healthy? Well

14:54

no, probably not for that kid,

14:57

but I think it was necessary for that character

15:01

too. You

15:04

know, I certainly I

15:07

personally sympathize with her, even though

15:09

I think she's doing things that are challenging

15:13

and harsh, I

15:16

feel like I'm not interested in

15:18

condemning them. So it is more of a question

15:20

is it is it okay? Like and

15:23

that family is one of those

15:25

things in life that

15:28

is so deeply

15:30

rooted that we survive tragedy

15:32

or heartbreak or whatever it is like and

15:36

we may take a new shape, but

15:38

like my parents are still my parents, you

15:40

know, Like that it

15:42

might not be everybody's experienced, but for I

15:44

think a lot of people like your family's

15:47

your family, and it I find it incredibly

15:49

moving that we somehow survive

15:53

right in some way, shape or form,

15:55

and to not all collectively hate

15:57

each other. Yes, and so is

15:59

it okay? No, I

16:02

don't probe not, but but you

16:05

know, I

16:07

think that that, um, you

16:10

know what, I think I have the heart of the question. Great,

16:12

I think I just found it. This

16:14

is maybe more for maybe, but maybe it's also for you.

16:17

Do you have as someone who was the oldest

16:20

and who was a stabilizing force?

16:23

I feel very similar in this way. Do

16:26

you have questions or

16:28

feelings of like resentment? Well?

16:35

Probably, but it's so

16:38

so complicated and I feel

16:40

so hesitant

16:43

to be like at all reductive about

16:45

it. And I think that that's one of the challenges

16:47

in trying to make a film with these mixed bag

16:49

of feelings. And for

16:53

me, Um, do I feel resentment? I mean,

16:57

gosh, I don't know. I

17:01

have so many feelings, and some of them really loving,

17:04

you know, and some of them are angry

17:06

or mixed bag you know. Yeah right,

17:08

I mean, of course I'm

17:11

trying to figure out on a daily basis. Yeah,

17:14

yeah,

17:18

so yeah, And I mean the

17:21

best way for me to express it and not to

17:23

be like overly coy has

17:25

been for me through like work.

17:28

Yeah, I mean I go to therapy, like you

17:30

know, I'm like a you know, and I think everybody should.

17:32

And but I mean I

17:35

try to bring

17:38

that mixed bag to the job.

17:40

What I do well on that. You do community

17:43

theater. That seems to be

17:46

the jumping off point for you as an actor,

17:48

and I heard you talk about it and it seemed fascinating.

17:52

The idea similar to your

17:54

home life. You're in a very

17:56

adult situation. What

17:59

do you remember about those days? That's

18:02

right, that's interesting. And again

18:06

I didn't know it at the time, but looking back on it, you

18:08

know, a certain point, I was

18:10

like going to school. After school,

18:12

I would go to soccer practice or whatever, and

18:15

then at night I would go to a play and

18:18

I mean on off Broadway or Broadway. And

18:21

I don't know when I would do my homework, you know, because that's

18:23

literally all the hours of the day. Maybe you didn't do

18:25

your homework, maybe not. I

18:27

don't, you know. So I felt I think

18:30

I think that was part of my normal experience.

18:32

But now I'm like, that's fucking crazy. It turned

18:34

out okay, yeah, but you know, I

18:37

just I don't I don't even know how

18:40

that was possible. So I know at the

18:42

time you didn't see it as like abnormal. But

18:44

when you're reflecting on the like

18:46

early days of you finding

18:49

the thing that would become your career, do

18:52

you have memories of like, wow, that's wild

18:54

that I was present for like these two adults

18:56

fighting about X. Yes,

19:00

I mean for sure. I

19:02

mean I have a lot of, you know, memories,

19:04

and and and now I actually

19:07

wish I had a greater memory, because

19:09

I do think at the time I

19:12

was reluctant to be overly ambitious

19:14

about it, almost

19:16

in a protective way, because

19:20

protective of what myself, because

19:24

I had a

19:27

sense pretty early that I

19:29

don't know what there would be to gain from

19:32

being either

19:35

like famous or making money or at like

19:37

a really early age, you know, and even

19:40

in high school, I was like, well,

19:42

if I'm going to be an actor someday, I

19:45

want to protect myself. And

19:47

I was I had awareness

19:51

of like the idea of like, how do I be an actor

19:53

when I'm thirty four, which I am now or forty

19:55

four, and not just like

19:58

auditioning for every thing,

20:01

because the kid acting

20:03

thing is I think delicate,

20:07

and I think it's challenging

20:10

and I think kids are put in a really adult

20:12

situation, and I

20:15

think that you're

20:17

also like told that you're like special,

20:20

and I think that

20:23

that's like too much of that is unhealthy

20:25

at a young age. Yeah, at

20:27

any age, at any age, Yeah,

20:29

that's absolutely right. Um, just

20:32

for some reason, I had

20:34

like my guard up, and I I

20:37

think I really liked it. I really loved being around

20:39

the adult actors actually, and they were lovely

20:41

to me as a kid. They were great. And I have really

20:43

good memories of different companies

20:46

where I was like a kid actor and they were adults, and

20:48

I think I really actually valued that. But

20:53

for some reason, I always had a little

20:55

bit of a like a

20:57

slow I'm like a slow and steady person in

21:00

general. Right, I'm sensing that I'm

21:02

figuring that out. Yeah, this may be

21:04

a very strange question. You've probably never got this an

21:06

interview, and we're sense

21:09

a bit too strangers here. But

21:11

I think what you're describing at

21:13

a young age is just the idea

21:15

of self worth, is

21:18

like knowing that you are

21:20

someone who does not want to be

21:23

and won't be allowed to be misused

21:27

or mistreated or which

21:29

is what happens with children. Actors

21:31

often maybe I'm mischaracterizing

21:34

that. No, I mean, yeah, I you

21:37

know, I mean it

21:39

just seems like you wanted to do things on your own terms.

21:43

I think so, and I think

21:45

I felt Yeah,

21:49

I think I'm I think I'm really stubborn too,

21:51

Okay, No, No, I mean I think self worth is

21:53

one thing. I just don't think it was. It was obviously at

21:55

that time, not that conscious. Yeah. I

21:57

mean, you know, it wasn't about my self

22:00

worth to me, right. I mean

22:02

maybe that's an element now, but I

22:04

don't know something about it. There was like an

22:06

ick factor in the wrong places. And

22:08

I don't know why, but I felt like the theater

22:10

was a safe place, and the theater was when I wanted to

22:12

be an actor. First was what I thought it

22:15

was going to be. It was being on stage

22:17

in New York, right, And you did that,

22:20

yes, and then you go eventually

22:23

you go to college, you go to new school somewhere

22:26

along the way you decide you're

22:28

just gonna do this. But before that you were

22:31

going to maybe do poetry. It was maybe

22:33

like musicianship. I tried on every

22:35

fucking hat. I think we both wanted to be professional

22:38

basketball players. Oh yeah, that was the big

22:40

thing in middle school. Yeah, and and

22:42

and hilariously. I mean I remember being

22:44

in to play in New York. I was

22:46

I had we had to work out like the travel basketball

22:48

schedule, so like I didn't want to I didn't want to give

22:51

up either, so somehow I was like going to basketball and doing

22:53

the play. I remember going to the bathroom

22:55

at the theater and like doing like squats,

22:57

like because I was like this like little short

23:00

kid who wore glasses, who like wanted to

23:02

like play basketball. Um.

23:04

There was a store in Times Square where

23:06

they sold all the like warm up

23:09

full up of the pants and the Jack

23:11

of the year. The gear was so

23:13

expensive. Yeah it was expensive,

23:16

um, and so uncomfortable to play in. Yeah.

23:19

Yeah, like you're immediately

23:21

hot. Why I needed to pull off pants

23:23

that you know why you need them at that point

23:26

to uh Yeah,

23:28

So yeah, I was

23:31

interested. In high school, I acted

23:33

and started acting in film really about

23:35

sixteen. Didn't go

23:37

to didn't want to go to school for

23:40

that because I was already kind of around it so much

23:42

and felt like, you know, needed something

23:44

else. Um, I thought about going

23:46

to film school, didn't, but I had taken in high

23:48

school a couple classes outside of

23:50

school, UM took an animation

23:53

class, took I think I took an editing in a film class

23:55

as well. So I but I for

23:57

some reason, I wanted to step away from the not

23:59

the industry, but that world for a moment. But

24:02

you know, in college, so I was an English major, I

24:04

took mostly like poetry classes Russia

24:06

litt you

24:08

know that player you're getting exasperated

24:10

totally. I mean I play in the bands, you know,

24:13

and that was great. I mean it was so fun and

24:16

I miss that, you know, that's um,

24:18

what do you miss? I think I miss like

24:21

you know, it just takes you and well

24:23

you can you can you can kind of have

24:26

an experience even just by yourself,

24:28

but even just with you know, two or three

24:30

other friends, and you know, you

24:32

can really like haven't experience just playing.

24:34

Um And I think this is film as

24:36

a medium that requires a lot more

24:39

u and acting also you

24:41

know, a stage or a camera, but it's

24:44

you know, in your apartment alone, like

24:46

working on off monologue that that

24:48

doesn't get me off, you know, play

24:50

but but when you play that

24:53

is that gives me a bigger feeling. So it's

24:55

like something you can maybe writing is a little

24:57

bit more like that too, righte, So you can, but

24:59

not as immediate. No, no, no, no, um,

25:02

not that playing music is im

25:04

like it's not so easy or anything

25:07

like that. No, but you know it's

25:09

I mean people everybody, you know, people

25:11

have that's there's quotes

25:13

about it for a reason, you know, all our aspires

25:15

to the condition of music. It's like, you know,

25:18

it's got something What turned

25:20

it though? What Mutton made that be? Like ah,

25:23

Okay, I like doing this. I feel alive

25:25

and free and young, but

25:27

I can't do this forever. Oh.

25:30

I think I was just resisting. I think I was

25:32

partially resisting, like you know, the thing

25:34

I was good at that was there for me, and you

25:37

know, just sort of like making sure that's what I wanted

25:39

to again because I'd started young, and I

25:42

was kind of like always

25:44

has a funny relationship with I was always

25:47

sort of making sure, like checking checking

25:49

on it, like that was part of going to college. Frankly

25:51

was like let me, well,

25:53

you're testing pump the brakes here and let's go

25:55

true. Yeah, and it's sort of like no, I have I'm

25:58

I want to do it. But

26:00

also honestly, it's hard

26:02

to be good at even one thing right,

26:05

And at a certain point it's like I

26:09

think you got to put the time in. And I'm and

26:11

I'm not a

26:13

great multitasker, and I like

26:16

kind of getting obsessed with one thing. So if I'm

26:18

going to act in a film, that's kind of

26:20

my life. If I'm going to make

26:22

a film, now, like that's your life, you know.

26:24

I mean, it's not my whole life. I have much

26:27

bigger parts in my life now at home, but like,

26:29

you know, it's your life. And yeah,

26:32

what is your earliest memory on a set

26:35

of you being like, oh, yeah, no, I can't

26:37

do this kind of movie. Well,

26:40

my first onset memory is the opposite of that, which is

26:42

this film called Lie, where I was like, oh making a movie.

26:44

It's like I probably just at

26:47

that point, I don't think I was not a

26:49

cinephile or a film snob or and you know,

26:51

I really just saw the movies

26:53

with my friends that we went and saw it

26:56

the fucking big movie theater, and I

26:58

just, you know, like, even though I love Terminator

27:00

two, I was just never gonna be Arnold Schwarzenegger and

27:02

I just didn't know there would be a place for me. Elie

27:06

was eye opening because

27:08

it was like, oh, is actually

27:11

like it was a beautiful, creative,

27:14

small intimate um and

27:16

not that I needed to be that by any means, but I

27:18

just didn't even know there was this

27:20

world of independent film,

27:23

which ultimately led to me

27:25

discovering, you know, foreign cinema

27:27

and so so that was great. One

27:30

of the important turning

27:32

points for me was

27:35

I was acting a film called The Girl next Door

27:38

and I'm consider myself

27:40

a dorky guy and still

27:43

I mean, I don't know, Yeah, I like, you know, I'm

27:45

I wore glasses and I'm like, you know, I'm

27:48

not gonna make judgments based on because

27:52

I like to you know, I mean, um for

27:56

whatever. Yeah, So I was That's

27:58

how I guess I felt about myself or something at the

28:00

time. Or and I remember

28:02

thinking, I think his team comedies were kind

28:04

of big at that time, or they had just been big American

28:08

pie and stuff. So I was like, oh, am

28:10

I I just had it, like, am I only ever

28:12

going to get to play you

28:14

know, myself number two? You know or

28:16

whatever? And

28:19

that wasn't interesting to me.

28:21

And then the next role

28:24

I got was in a film called The Ballad of Jack and Rose,

28:27

and that was a part that was I felt

28:29

very different from me. Obviously a piece of me is

28:31

in there, but that was a character

28:34

and the fact that somebody believed that

28:36

I could be that. I

28:39

felt like, oh I could, I could

28:41

be an actor. How old are you at that age? Eighteen

28:46

when it but nineteen when we filmed Ballad

28:48

of Jack and Rose, but probably eighteen when I was cast. So

28:51

Daniel de Lewis is in it, Katherine

28:53

Keener's in it. Can you try

28:56

to walk me through what's

28:59

like in your head as an eighteen year old

29:01

as working with those two

29:04

people, it was that

29:06

sort of summer camp feeling of you

29:08

know, everybody's there

29:11

and wants to be there, and you know, uh, really

29:14

um special time. That

29:17

was also important to

29:22

see actors like that go to work and

29:25

and I had been like on stage. I saw a couple of great

29:28

actors go to work, but I was still kind of young, and you

29:30

know, this was definitely, um,

29:34

you know, a moment in one's life where

29:36

you go, okay, well, if

29:40

if people are doing that, like what

29:42

am I doing? And you know, what

29:44

do I want? And and

29:47

these you know guys are beautiful.

29:49

Um. Also it was

29:51

really important was seeing

29:54

actors like and and really

29:56

good actors work differently because

29:59

when you're a young person, you're like a

30:01

like writing poetry, you're playing in a band, you're

30:04

trying on hats, you know, and you're figuring out who

30:06

you are. And you do that

30:08

as an actor to you know, you read

30:11

about you know, uh, you

30:14

know, Charles Honor, you read about like Marlon Brando,

30:16

you know, and you're like, oh, yeah, I gotta shop where,

30:19

you know, I gotta try that look that way or whatever,

30:21

and like eventually you're like

30:25

part of growing up, I think is figuring out who you are.

30:28

I mean, I don't know that you ever do. But like Catherine

30:31

and Daniel are very different and

30:33

both incredible to work with

30:36

and to watch in the film, and

30:38

it's really nice to see those

30:41

different processes and it kind

30:43

of opens like, Okay, I have to

30:45

figure out like how am I? How

30:47

am I going to work? Right? And I still am?

30:50

But you know, at least I know I can. Yeah,

30:53

it seems like that your process.

30:57

A quote I have is that you it's like deletion,

31:00

deletion of self. Is

31:02

that accurate? I guess I've

31:04

always kind of gotten off on like figuring

31:07

out who the person

31:10

is the character, and I do

31:12

like the idea that it is the character

31:14

and that you're there for them. It's just a

31:16

fun way to work. But

31:19

at the same time, without

31:21

question, you're trying to bring some incredibly

31:24

personal piece of yourself to the table, so

31:28

you need both. Yeah, well this

31:30

is you referenced

31:32

a Charlie Kaufman

31:35

speech that I've watched Spot

31:37

seven times this year from

31:39

the BFI. Oh yeah,

31:41

I mean yeah. You know, if anyone

31:44

who's listening has not seen

31:46

that, Yeah, it's really changed

31:49

my life. I mean, yeah, it's important.

31:51

I do not know what the wound is. I do

31:54

know that it is old. I do know that

31:56

it is a whole in my being. I do know

31:58

it is tender. I do believe

32:00

that it is unknowable, or at

32:02

least inarticulable. I

32:05

do believe you have a wound too. I

32:07

do believe it is both specific to you and

32:09

common to everyone. I

32:12

do believe it is the thing about you that must be hidden

32:14

and protected. It is the thing

32:16

that is tap danced over five shows

32:18

a day. It is the thing that won't be interesting

32:20

to other people if revealed. It is

32:22

the thing that makes you weak and pathetic. It

32:25

is the thing that truly, truly,

32:28

truly makes loving you impossible.

32:31

It is your secret, even from yourself, but

32:34

it is the thing that wants to live. It

32:37

is the thing from which your art, your painting,

32:39

your dance, your composition, your philosophical

32:41

treatise, your screenplay is born.

32:44

If you don't acknowledge this, you

32:47

will come up here when it is your time, and

32:50

you will give your speech, and you will

32:52

talk about the business of screenwriting. You

32:54

will say that as a screenwriter, you are a cog in

32:56

a business machine. You will say it is

32:59

not an art form. You

33:01

will say here, this is what a screenplay

33:03

looks like. You will discuss

33:05

character arts, how to make likable characters.

33:08

You will talk about box office. This

33:10

is what you will do, This is who you will be. And

33:13

after you're done, I will feel lonely

33:15

and empty and hopeless. When

33:17

did you figure out that you needed to offer

33:21

yourself? Well,

33:25

it changes once that becomes like a

33:27

conscious thought. I do sort

33:29

of think that you're part

33:31

maybe doing that without knowing it, part of the time in

33:34

some of the earlier stuff you know you do, and because

33:37

I just think it's the natural way

33:39

of why you would be in the arts

33:41

in any part of it. But

33:45

I would say I

33:48

think I had to figure something out because

33:51

I when I was doing a couple parts that were kind

33:53

of like sort of dark

33:56

so to speak, which is kind of like I

33:58

hate that sort of generalized,

34:01

but I think I was doing something where I was like, I have

34:03

to figure out like why I'm doing this, you know, because I

34:05

know the filmmakers really good, and I think it's an important

34:07

like I like being a part of this story, but this

34:11

has a cost, and so I think,

34:14

yeah, I mean twelve years of slave, so it comes

34:16

to mind, Yeah, that it was around that and Prisoners

34:19

where I was like, I mean, can I

34:21

tell you those movies one time? I'll

34:23

watch it once, No

34:26

chance, no chance, I'm going back in for those

34:29

yeah. Yeah,

34:32

yeah.

34:34

And it was also you know,

34:37

evolution of like learning,

34:40

like when you hear something like the Charlie Cofmin thing

34:42

or there's you know, I've always kind

34:44

of sought out different teachers throughout the years,

34:46

and one teacher who is

34:49

really important in my life still

34:51

definitely helped to sort of at

34:55

some point, I just hit a blot, you know, because I've

34:57

been doing it for a while. I have to

35:00

rediscover why I'm doing it every so often,

35:03

and I

35:06

think one

35:08

layer of hitting a block as

35:10

an actor and feeling a little not bored

35:12

with it, but like, fuck, I'm not

35:15

feeling myself for that, like I'm

35:17

I need to was no longer

35:19

energized. Yeah, just sort of, you

35:21

know, needing a new, something new.

35:25

It's now like why on a person

35:27

why on a personal level, you know, I have

35:29

something to give this character? Why?

35:32

And by working with that, you

35:34

know, hopefully not that you're healing

35:38

something, but I

35:42

guess it's just nice to know to

35:44

remind yourself because acting is also

35:46

such a hard job

35:48

and industry and I can't tell you how many auditions I've

35:50

been on, you know, I

35:52

mean so many, And so

35:55

you're to learn to give

35:58

yourself agency, I guess, and say,

36:00

you know why on a personal level, is this character

36:02

means something to me? And the

36:05

more I work in that direction,

36:07

the more I'm getting back from it. Now it

36:10

like I take something with me and

36:12

that feels really good. Are

36:15

you hard on yourself? Yeah?

36:17

Probably? I don't know if

36:19

it's a revival tool or if you like

36:23

wildlife for example, you know, we had a screen

36:25

the New York Film Festival last week and I

36:27

think at some point after that screening, I was like, oh,

36:29

you know what this is? Like I

36:32

had like a like a five minute feeling of

36:34

like we did it, you know, like we made like

36:36

I made the film I wanted to. But

36:38

I was like five last about the five minutes,

36:41

you know, and then it's kind of back to

36:43

like, you know, I don't know, yeah,

36:46

what is it? Right back into oah, you know, I

36:48

mean, I don't know. It's even

36:52

in this uh sort

36:54

of American dream idea, but it's kind of like, why

36:56

are we at? Why is it so hard to be satisfied

36:59

and just to like be present with the thing

37:02

that's happening. I don't

37:04

know. I mean i'd

37:07

like to know. Yeah,

37:09

I've sometimes were So we're

37:12

a decade apart an age,

37:15

and I'm I'm fearful that

37:17

I'm gonna become I'm going to be your age,

37:20

and I'm gonna have no more answers

37:22

than I do now. I

37:26

don't. I think if you're fearful of that, then

37:29

you won't you won't find yourself

37:31

in that position. You won't. UM.

37:33

And that's part of the fun, is you know. UM.

37:37

And I think that's why a lot of us, do you

37:39

know sort of the things that we do and you

37:41

know, it's really fun. But you're

37:44

just a chicken. That means you're just like

37:46

you're just a you're sweet, sweet

37:48

young man. You don't you don't need

37:51

to don't don't don't

37:55

you know, and enjoy yourself. I

37:58

could say the same for you. I

38:00

mean, you're thirty four, not eighty four. I'm thirty

38:02

four. Yeah, yeah, but you know,

38:05

Um, speaking

38:07

of you as a director, uh,

38:10

I want to go over a few filmmakers

38:13

that you have worked with as an actor that

38:15

I imagined influenced

38:18

your style as a filmmaker. So here

38:21

are three people, the first being

38:23

Kelly Reigart. What did

38:26

she mean to you? What did you

38:28

learn from her? Yeah?

38:33

Well, because I was gonna say, I'm

38:36

thinking she's come on here

38:38

before, and um, you guys

38:40

are actually similar

38:43

in temperaments, yeah

38:45

a little bit. Well, yeah, I mean I

38:47

loved Kelly's films and

38:49

her and I really got along because I remember like

38:52

we were able to talk about like Donald Ritchie's

38:54

book on Ozo together, like really you know,

38:56

sort of like and for some

38:58

reason, directors are often surprize

39:01

when I'm like so dorky

39:04

about film

39:05

m because they expect I

39:08

don't know, but you know, I mean, I think

39:10

most actors love film, but it may you know, like

39:13

what you know, I'm just I don't want it's hard

39:16

to you know. Some of the reason I don't like talking about myself

39:18

is because I feel like you are making an image

39:20

of yourself and like I don't want

39:22

you talking about like books I've read. I mean, you know, but I'm

39:24

just saying Kelly and I like we had

39:26

some stuff that like we could jam out about. All

39:28

I can say is there's no judgment on

39:31

this side. And

39:35

I've always because I think I've

39:37

loved film and wanted

39:40

to make films, I've always felt the

39:42

most comfortable

39:45

or good about working with people

39:47

who I can trust and that I like. And so

39:50

when I'm with, you know, somebody like Kelly,

39:53

you know, I can't I'm not really like studying like their

39:55

camera placement or something, you

39:58

know, because I'm acting. I do remember

40:00

how much time she took to

40:02

figure out the right composition. A

40:05

lot of time. But I also I remember that because as

40:07

an actor you're like, yeah,

40:09

you're kind of like, you know, it's like it's like

40:12

putting a boxer on ice or something. You're like, no, like

40:14

what's like you know, um,

40:18

And I

40:20

don't know. I think that's more just like, you know, you

40:22

end up gravitating towards people who are like minded.

40:25

But certainly in terms of like American film,

40:28

I think we share a lot of like other

40:31

kinds of filmmakers we like, meaning like there's a

40:33

quietness that is not always

40:36

you know, present, and

40:38

I think there's a poetry in that, you know, in her

40:40

films, and I think it comes

40:43

from a love of you know, other films

40:45

like that, right, And it started there, I mean, like

40:47

river Grass is like I can't

40:49

believe that's her first

40:51

movie, and yet of course it is. It's so

40:54

back to the coffment thing like that's so that's

40:57

what she's what she had at

41:00

that point. Yeah. What about Spike

41:02

Jones? Spike

41:04

is h he is great.

41:07

He is a fucking like kid, you know. I

41:09

mean we did I mean I did a voice

41:11

in this film Where the Wild Things Are, And we

41:13

had a sound stage here in Los Angeles for about

41:16

a month. Each of us had our

41:18

own personal camera because they were kind of basing the puppet

41:20

work on what we did, along with using

41:22

our voices and we just had a big like basically

41:24

foam set and it was like

41:27

we would wrestle and work

41:29

on the scenes and improvise. And Spike

41:32

is a searcher. He's just like searching,

41:34

searching, like and it's

41:38

an energy that's really wonderful. One

41:41

time I

41:44

had a hole in the back of my pants and

41:48

he put his hand in there and pulled,

41:50

like as a joke, but my all my pants came apart

41:52

and came off completely in front

41:55

of the whole crew and actors. And

41:57

I was standing there in my fucking underwear and

42:00

I was, I'm gonna fucking kill Spike Jones.

42:02

And and you know, whenever I see him,

42:04

it's like we just like want to like fight in

42:07

a good way in the rest loving and

42:09

he sends me pants occasionally, and

42:13

it's, um, that's

42:16

a really important energy for somebody like me. Though,

42:18

So when I'm saying, like what do I get back? Like,

42:20

sometimes you're like like doing like a film like Swiss

42:22

Army Man was like I needed to

42:24

like go like I needed to have fun.

42:27

I needed to be playful. I needed to like

42:29

be a kid. I needed to fart like

42:31

I needed my sense of humor, which

42:34

my works often probably a little bit more like

42:36

the serious side, and so sometimes there's

42:38

like a part of me that doesn't get you know, always

42:40

expressed. But that's probably more who

42:43

I am at home almost And you

42:45

know, um, Spike has

42:48

something that is really you

42:51

know, I think, a gift for the people around him, his

42:53

energy. Paul Thomas Sanderson

42:57

Paul is, I

43:00

love him. I

43:03

feel like one of the things that I felt

43:05

when working with him is that he's just

43:07

as good a writer as he as a director. And that's

43:09

a really important part of you know. I think

43:11

sometimes we think about his camera

43:14

like that mused the score, but like it's

43:16

it's there in the writing. Shockingly

43:19

good writer. Like yes, the scripts are

43:22

worth reading. Yeah, over and

43:24

over again. A guy who

43:27

is so loving to you know, his actors,

43:30

and you can you know that sense of family

43:32

that's in his films and it's there on the set

43:35

a lot of you know, repeat crew

43:37

members and it's like a you know, a family.

43:40

Um. But incredible attention

43:42

to detail, work ethic, what

43:44

else I mean, you know, he's uh, I

43:47

don't know, he's he's you know, a very good

43:49

filmmaker. Yeah, I think that's good. Well,

43:52

No, when it comes to you, I imagine,

43:55

and this maybe is the wrong assumption,

43:57

but I suspect

43:59

that on your set you

44:02

ended up being some sort of amalgamation

44:05

of all the people that you liked working

44:07

with or maybe didn't like working with. Yeah,

44:10

I mean I think both are super informative, and I

44:12

definitely had an advantage knowing

44:15

like, oh I can I can create

44:18

my set. You know, that was something I really

44:20

was excited about that I daydreamed about, like

44:22

how, you know, what I wanted to give my

44:24

actors. You know,

44:27

I love as an actor myself,

44:29

when the crew is involved, like when they feel

44:31

present where it's

44:33

not just a job. Yeah, so how to like,

44:35

you know, it's a film about family, you

44:38

know, so we're gonna have a creative family

44:41

and you know your job is. I felt

44:43

like it's like there's a parenting element, like you're

44:45

you're also there to get the best out of everybody,

44:48

not just get your you know, quote

44:51

vision, like like you

44:53

need you need everybody.

44:56

You need the person pushing the dolly to like

44:58

fucking feel it, you know and whatever,

45:02

so um it

45:04

just helps it. They're excited too, Yeah,

45:07

yeah, and they matter, you know, is the so

45:09

like treating you know, like it's I think it's just important

45:12

to be like a good

45:14

person. No, but you

45:17

know, I just uh and and for

45:19

me, setting up like the atmosphere for the actors, the

45:22

directors you mentioned, but even others on

45:25

a really good set, like there's a temperature, you

45:27

know, like when it's time to go to work, like

45:29

you could have fun. It

45:31

doesn't always have to be that way, but when it's kind of time

45:34

to go to work, like there's like a like a temperature,

45:36

right, and like that's what you're looking for.

45:39

So to help give my actors an experience

45:41

they want was really like

45:43

a pleasure for me. You strike

45:45

me as a empathetic,

45:49

sensitive guy.

45:54

Yeah, sure, on

45:59

set? How did you you

46:02

know? Set is essentially managing

46:07

many different not just changing

46:09

pieces, but changing feelings and people.

46:13

How did you handle all that? Well?

46:17

A big learning curve. But I think I loved it. Actually,

46:19

I think I was surprised even how much I loved it. I

46:21

think it probably felt more like playing the band, you know, acting

46:24

is a little more lonely. I really

46:26

liked collaborating, although

46:28

there are times when I just wanted to fucking destroy

46:31

the film where you know, I mean, it's it's

46:33

so hard, and the amount of decisions

46:35

you have to make and learning to compromise. Learning to

46:37

compromise was hard, right,

46:40

and learning when to put your foot down, you know, and

46:42

it's a fine line, and you

46:45

are trusting your gut on a first time

46:47

you know thing. I hope the next time I do

46:49

it, you know, I'll feel a hair

46:52

more confident to say no, like it has to be this

46:54

way or okay,

46:57

it's okay if we let go of this. You

46:59

know, those things felt so dramatic

47:01

to me this first time. Yeah, I don't know

47:03

that that'll change. Well, that's because you had no, yeah,

47:06

experience in the past to do it.

47:09

Yeah, when did you feel like you wanted to destroy

47:12

the movie? I mean I don't.

47:14

I don't know that every day. But this is a

47:16

common feeling. It's not like you

47:18

know, um, you

47:21

know, I there's

47:24

so many technical, logistical,

47:26

budgetary, schedule

47:29

like that element of it, like pre production

47:32

essentially, um was

47:36

um big learning curve.

47:38

And when you can't get

47:41

something you want, you know it's going to

47:43

happen. It's just going to happen. I mean maybe

47:45

the next film, I'll have more of a budget

47:47

and you get like one or two more

47:49

things that you wanted. But so

47:51

you're you've

47:54

had something in your head and you're trying

47:56

to make it come to fruition. Um the

47:59

now, I should say that I feel

48:01

zero compromise in the final film. I

48:03

mean, I've got to. I feel like the film is

48:05

the film, So you

48:08

know, you're just learning to like collaborate

48:11

and also to occasionally be

48:13

practical, which is I think hard for

48:15

you. I think so yeah. I

48:17

mean I think maybe

48:20

I don't know if acting is like just like really emotional,

48:22

Like I don't know, you bringing that kind of practical

48:25

part of your brain into it was new. I

48:27

don't feel like I have to do that as an actor

48:29

much, right, But yeah, like when

48:31

you lose a shot, the film is fairly economical.

48:34

Maybe you know, it's kind of spare and diego

48:38

on my DP and I we didn't like shoot

48:40

a lot of superfluous shots, so if

48:43

we had to drop a shot, it felt

48:45

really scary, like because

48:48

you weren't doing a lot of coverage, no,

48:50

and you know we would we

48:53

could only I mean, I don't don't know other people

48:55

to do it, but I feel like I can only know where to put the camera

48:57

if I know it's going to cut. It doesn't mean it's ultimately

48:59

actually gonna be that way, but you have to

49:02

know some sense of why.

49:04

So if a shot got dropped like that felt

49:07

you know, I felt devastated. Um

49:10

sometimes I mean, you know, um,

49:12

but so many other I mean, so many

49:14

other things that go wrong and

49:16

uh, it's

49:19

uh. But then again

49:21

it's like such a joy. Ah.

49:27

So hi, do

49:36

you think that you you

49:39

lied to me way

49:52

down deep inside

49:56

me. You

50:03

said your love

50:05

was true and

50:10

we'd never never

50:14

ever hot. No,

50:20

you want someone

50:23

new and

50:35

fun. You

50:39

know what's funny about this is

50:42

it? And it is you

50:44

know, like we're gonna go off a screen

50:46

at the arc Light tonight, and that

50:49

when I came to LA when I was eighteen and

50:51

made some friends, They're like, oh, yeah, we go see movies

50:53

at the arc Light. You know, the arc Light is like a

50:56

classic lad like, Okay, it's fucking cool,

50:58

and I'm like, wow, okay, that's great. But

51:00

like the fun part is done for the most

51:02

part, you know, like making it

51:05

is the fun part, and this is

51:07

also fun. But

51:11

I don't know, there is something a

51:13

little overwhelming about

51:16

sort of being done. It's

51:19

been a big part of my life for many many

51:21

many years now, like since

51:24

twenty twenty twelve, you know, and

51:26

like it's I guess it's kind of like done,

51:29

and I don't know, I've it's hard

51:32

sometimes I miss it. Is it

51:34

overwhelming? Because you know there has

51:36

to be something else partially

51:38

and I've already have acted in something else since so

51:40

I've I've had an experience. Um

51:44

and I've you know, there's there's life.

51:47

It's just making a film is a really big

51:49

experience and that's why it's so wonderful.

51:52

Um. But um,

51:57

yeah, it's it's hard to put

51:59

words to what it feels like to

52:01

like finish it because frankly, I'm right, I'm

52:03

being asked right now. We're I'm doing press for the film,

52:06

right, So it's like, how does it feel too? And

52:08

I'm I don't know the

52:11

last thing I want to ask you because we're gonna get kicked out

52:13

of here. He just had a kid. Yeah,

52:16

you and Zoe are both busy a

52:18

lot of the time on various projects, acting

52:20

and writing, directing. I

52:24

imagine there's a new conversation that has to

52:26

be had about how to best

52:30

balance the

52:32

work of it all, especially the way you do it

52:35

and the way I think she does it is

52:37

you guys, invest a lot of yourselves

52:41

and the work. It's why it turns out. Well. How

52:45

do you feel you want to move forward? Yeah,

52:49

I mean we're about

52:51

to find out. And

52:56

I don't know. I will say that so

52:59

far, it's really nice to have something

53:03

that matters a lot more than you do

53:06

in a way, you know, like our

53:09

daughters is

53:12

the most important in our life right now. So I

53:14

don't know is the answer. And

53:16

I imagine that it is going to be a bit

53:18

of alluring curve. And I imagine that that's actually going

53:20

to be difficult at times, because

53:23

I think we both get

53:26

a lot from what we do and have a

53:29

lot to give still. But I

53:31

also hope and think that you

53:35

know, this is going to help wax

53:37

and weeds, so to speak, like there's

53:39

just not time anymore to like so

53:43

far, at least we're only six weeks in, but so

53:47

far there's just not as much time for like

53:49

your own bs. That's

53:52

good, So I feel

53:55

I'll be curious how it informs

53:57

the next I'm going to do a play this winter, and I

54:00

don't know what that's going to be like to do

54:03

it with a kid you'll

54:05

figure it out. I hope so. I

54:08

imagine too will make it work. I

54:11

think we will. I think we will. Um.

54:15

Yeah, Paul, thank you so much for coming

54:17

on alright. Thanks special

55:01

thanks this week to a few people Kate McEdwards,

55:04

Jordan band Brink, Jessica Colstad,

55:06

and of course, so we had

55:09

Paul for supporting the show Wildlife

55:12

Lands in theaters this upcoming Friday,

55:14

October nineteenth in Los Angeles

55:17

and New York City. A national

55:19

rollout will follow. And

55:21

in case you're unfamiliar with how

55:23

this works, the more people show

55:26

up on opening weekend, the

55:28

more the distributor, in

55:30

this case IFC, is inclined

55:33

to put it out into the world. So

55:36

if you're in one of those two cities this upcoming

55:38

weekend, energy to give the

55:40

film a chance. It certainly deserves

55:42

it. If you enjoyed today's

55:45

episode, you'd probably enjoy our conversation

55:47

with Zoe Kazan, Mackenzie

55:49

Davis, Kelly Reigart, Alan

55:52

Alda, Rob Reiner, Norman Lear I

55:55

think everyone likes Norman Leer. You

55:58

can find all of those episodes and more

56:00

at www dot com, easypod

56:03

dot com. You can also find the

56:05

show on iTunes, soundclown,

56:07

wherever you get your podcast. We're

56:09

on Twitter and Facebook at talk

56:11

Easy Pod. I'm also very

56:14

cautiously using Instagram.

56:17

My handle is at Sam Fragoso.

56:20

I don't really think I'm doing it right, So

56:22

any notes feedback you folks

56:24

want to offer up, I'm all ears

56:27

as always. The podcast is executive

56:29

produced by David chen Graphics

56:32

by Ian Jones, illustrations

56:34

by Christmas Chenoi. Our associate

56:36

producer is Elliott Weintraub, and

56:38

the show is produced by Dylan Back. I'm

56:42

Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening

56:44

to Talk Easy, and I'm

56:46

going to have the Manhattans play us out. Have

56:50

a good week. You need a

56:52

promise and

56:55

you're broken. He

56:57

could never I

57:09

think that you lie to

57:13

me, way

57:24

down the inside

57:27

to be you

57:33

said your love was

57:36

true and

57:39

we never have a

57:41

part. Now

57:47

you found someone

57:50

new and

57:53

it bakes my

57:55

heart. I

58:12

much more than you live

58:16

no, because

58:28

you love so

58:55

m