0:15

Pushkin. This

0:23

is Talk Easy. I'm Sam

0:25

Fragoso. Welcome

0:28

to the show. Hey

0:51

everyone, thanks for beating here today.

0:54

I am joined by actor Amanda Syfred.

0:58

Throughout the two thousands, you have undoubtedly

1:00

enjoyed Amanda's work, whether

1:03

it's in big pictures like Mean Girls,

1:05

Mamma Mia, or Dear John

1:08

TV show like Big Love or Veronica

1:10

Mars, or even smaller

1:13

independent projects like Chloe

1:15

and First Reformed. By

1:18

the way, let me throw in a recommendation if

1:20

you haven't seen First Reformed, that's

1:23

a great movie and Amanda is great in

1:25

it. And so for fifteen

1:28

years now, I think Amanda

1:30

has demonstrated this kind of

1:32

impressive range, and

1:35

her latest performance is just further

1:38

proof of that, which comes in

1:40

David Fincher's Bank, set

1:42

in nineteen thirties Hollywood, It tells

1:45

the story of drunken screenwriter Herman

1:48

J. Mankowitz played by Gary

1:50

Oldman, as he races to finish

1:52

what would become Citizen Kane.

1:55

Through Hermann's hazy memory, we

1:57

meet Marion Davies played

1:59

by Sifred, the nineteen twenties

2:02

and thirties screen star better known

2:04

today as the mistress of

2:06

newspaper magnet William

2:08

Ran nov Hurst. Here's

2:11

a clip from the trailer man

2:16

It's awesome. Well there,

2:19

of course I think

2:21

it's we talk. What is

2:23

it to? Writer says, tell

2:26

the story? You know? Hello,

2:31

ever, will make yourself to home, mister

2:34

Mankowitz or shall I call you Herman? Please

2:36

call me mank mag mak

2:38

mank Man. This is Herman

2:40

Mankowitz. But where to call him? Mank Ankerwitz,

2:43

Herman Mankowitz, New York

2:46

Playwriting Drama returned. How more,

2:48

screenwriter, mister Hurst, this is

2:50

a business where the buyer gets nothing for

2:52

his money but a memory. What he bought still

2:55

belongs to the man who sold it. That's

2:57

the real magic of the movies. From Black,

3:00

Black Fire Religion, one

3:03

say all in one film

3:05

that's director program, Why I

3:08

always want Mank. We

3:10

talk about mank a fair bit in this

3:12

conversation. The film

3:15

is a scathing evaluation of

3:17

Hollywood, the vanity, the

3:19

insecurities, the desperation,

3:21

the nastiness, and although

3:24

mank is set in the thirties, the

3:26

parallels to working in this industry

3:28

in twenty twenty one, well

3:30

they're uncanny, sometimes

3:33

even disturbing. Having

3:35

started out performing as a teenager

3:38

Amanda has seen it all, and

3:40

she brings all of those years

3:43

into this performance as Marion

3:45

Davies, which is probably why

3:47

it's so compelling and full.

3:50

She also brings herself fully to this conversation

3:54

as we walk through her early years in

3:56

the industry, the twists and turns,

3:59

the winds and losses, as

4:01

well as where she hopes to be

4:04

as an actor and a mother

4:08

in the years ahead. I

4:10

hope you enjoy a

4:25

man as eye friend. How

4:27

are you doing? Thank you? I

4:30

am doing okay in

4:33

the grand scheme of things, I feel lucky and

4:36

positive, and I'm super

4:38

excited about having

4:40

two kids and being done with um

4:42

reproducing. I'm in a warm

4:45

I'm in a warm place right now, which makes me happy.

4:47

And I'm also like getting to talk about an

4:50

experience that I had that was special

4:53

and it's being treated like it's special.

4:55

And the two things don't overlap. Usually

4:58

I have a special time on every movie for

5:00

different reasons. This is this

5:03

is fincher. Why is this so uncommon?

5:05

It's like lightning striking. I

5:08

have and mosying on through

5:10

my career doing things that speak to me, working

5:13

with new directors, old directors, inspired

5:17

writers. I've been doing it

5:19

a long time, and I'm always surprised

5:21

and always looking for a new challenge

5:23

and expectations low and

5:26

I've worked with the greats. I've worked with great

5:28

filmmakers, and I never expected

5:30

to be able to work with David Fincher as well. And

5:32

that's like lightning striking for me. I

5:35

heard you say something that I wanted to kind

5:37

of go to, which is that you've

5:39

always regarded yourself as someone

5:41

who looks especially contemporary,

5:45

which is why you were a little anxious about

5:47

doing this role. How

5:50

did you get over that hurdle for

5:52

yourself. I had

5:54

to trust that once I knew the words

5:57

as well as I could possibly know the words, once

5:59

I memorized fully,

6:02

they were going to help me. Because

6:04

I sound contemporary. I

6:06

watch interviews back. It's very difficult

6:08

to listen to my voice when I'm speaking

6:10

as Amanda because

6:13

there are ums your nose

6:16

likes as everywhere

6:19

sprinkle throughout. That's a contemporary

6:21

thing. Some might say lazy. I

6:23

wouldn't call it lazy. I did think

6:26

that my voice and the way

6:29

I spoke in the movie was going

6:31

to be a challenge,

6:33

and it turns out no. I

6:35

just had to trust the words, the dialogue

6:38

and then the accent helps you know. Everything builds

6:41

on each other and this new

6:43

thing is born and you just have to trust that.

6:45

I am an actor. I've been doing it. I

6:47

only want to do it. Why am I so anxious?

6:50

Well, to relieve some anxiety. I

6:52

want to assure you that we have very

6:54

diligent editors that will

6:57

help you and I out with

6:59

any goose or gaffs or ums

7:01

and ohs, any cursing, which

7:05

you're allowed to do on here by the way,

7:07

Yeah, you never know anymore. I'm I mean not

7:10

that having kids has changed anything

7:12

for me? Is that sarcasm? No? It like really

7:14

hasn't you? You would think I

7:16

would be better about my language

7:18

around my daughter, who's almost

7:21

four, by the way, I

7:24

guess my husband and we were walking

7:26

on the river yesterday during our break and

7:29

we were like, ah, shit happens, and

7:31

we really wanted her to be

7:33

able to say shit happens, because

7:35

she's not going to say it's She's

7:38

very made it very clear to us that she

7:40

will not say bad words, even

7:42

if she doesn't know which words are bad.

7:45

It's like she knows subconsciously.

7:48

And I don't know where that comes from She's like, no, I'm

7:50

not going to say that. I used sake videos

7:52

of her saying fox because she would say fuck, and

7:54

I thought it was the funniest thing. And

7:57

she won't say it anymore because

8:00

she gets like, I guess the reaction she gets isn't

8:02

good enough, and she knows that it's a bad word, and she doesn't

8:04

want to say bad words. She's

8:07

not my child anyway.

8:09

I thought it was so weird that

8:12

anyway. The point is, I haven't. I

8:14

haven't changed enough, you know,

8:16

I haven't. I don't set a great example

8:18

because I do. I do curse. You

8:20

would think I wouldn't. This is not like the nineteen fifties.

8:23

I don't I feel like it's okay to curse. Yea,

8:25

what is a bad word anyway? I don't know. I

8:28

don't know. Am I going to get slapped on the hand

8:30

from the principle of her school if she says it?

8:32

You almost seem like melancholic that she

8:34

won't say fox anymore.

8:37

Yeah, because you know, I

8:39

do a lot to get a laugh. I

8:42

do a lot to laugh. No, not really, I

8:44

really don't exploit her often.

8:47

That will be the headline from this podcast. The

8:50

headline will be Amanda doesn't exploit

8:52

daughter often, just when it really

8:55

counts, just when she's having a really

8:57

bad day. You said, you became

8:59

a parent, you have two kids now,

9:02

and it hasn't changed

9:04

anything. And I think there is

9:06

traditionally this expectation regard

9:09

lists of career, but especially in acting that

9:11

someone has a kid and their life alters

9:13

course. And yet to

9:15

you, you're saying, the courses

9:17

you know I've in deviated. There

9:20

are things that have changed that the

9:22

natural turn of events

9:24

that happens when you become a parent. You

9:27

are responsible for two small

9:29

human a small human, a

9:31

dozen small humans, however men you choose

9:33

to have, and a dozen seems like a lot, not

9:36

to some people always

9:38

blows my mind always blows them out. I mean, I can't. My

9:40

body can't go through another another. That

9:42

thing that happens at instinct takes over and

9:45

you the priority just shifts and

9:48

hopefully, hopefully,

9:50

and my essence

9:52

doesn't change the things. The

9:54

way I speak doesn't change. Clearly, the

9:57

things that I'm passionate about don't change. I have

9:59

less time to do them because I want

10:01

to have less time to do them, because I'd rather be with them

10:03

with my kids. Of course you make sacrifices,

10:06

and of course you make compromises, but

10:08

you don't you don't stop doing

10:10

the thing that inspires you and moves you all

10:12

together. You just it changes

10:14

a little bit, like I'm not going to work. I'm

10:16

not going to do three projects a year. Hopefully

10:19

I'll do one or two, and that's okay. That's

10:21

really important for them to see us happy. Plus,

10:24

I have my mom who lives with us full time

10:26

and is there nanny, so it's easy for me to

10:28

say that. Then again, my dad worked,

10:30

my mom worked, and we went to daycare,

10:32

and I turned out pretty sane and happy.

10:36

You seem sane and you seem happy all

10:38

things considered. It thanks so do you do? I

10:40

yeah, you seem level headed and you

10:43

have a very healthy amount of humility,

10:45

it seems from the five minutes we've

10:48

been speaking or den, I'm wondering,

10:51

because so much of this film

10:53

is kind of interrogating Hollywood

10:56

and the art of being an actor

10:58

and what it means to be an

11:01

actor and the industry as

11:03

a whole. What did this

11:05

part make you think about within

11:08

your own career. I

11:11

have been talking

11:14

about this movie since October. We

11:16

finished making it in February, just

11:19

before lockdown or just before we shut down, kind

11:21

of the whole world. And in

11:24

talking about the movie,

11:27

not as much portraying Marian on

11:29

set, I have reflected

11:32

back, I have taken a few trips

11:34

down my past, and I

11:36

see some similarities between myself

11:39

and Marian. Of course, you do that

11:41

right away when you get a role like this, when you're

11:43

portraying someone, really you try to find

11:45

the similarities right away. You try to find the humanity,

11:48

no matter who it is, because that's how you connect.

11:50

That's how you're going to play the person, right That's step

11:52

one for a lot of actors, And in

11:54

terms of my career, like the similarities

11:57

are that we were both misunderstood

11:59

a lot. I was misunderstood for a shorter

12:01

amount of time because I played my first

12:04

big role was Karen and Mean Girls, And as

12:06

great a role as that was and as huge

12:09

of a movie that was and what it did for my career,

12:11

it also was the perfect vehicle

12:14

to pigeonhole me, and so

12:16

I really fought against that almost

12:18

immediately. It's not like I had every

12:20

opportunity falling at my feet or anything, but

12:22

I worked really hard to fight against

12:24

that, and for Marian and I don't think. I think

12:26

she just wanted to work. And also she

12:29

had hers trying to steer

12:31

her in a direction that he thought she

12:33

deserved when she actually really

12:35

wanted to be a comedian continue to being

12:38

a comedian because she's great

12:39

that that was her Niche

12:41

like that was where she belonged and that's

12:43

where she was happiest. So there's some similarities

12:46

there, But also in just generally

12:48

being a woman in this industry, it doesn't

12:50

look that much different in the thirties. I

12:53

mean, we all know that, we all see that it's better.

12:55

Hollywood wants to be better. For sure, there's

12:58

an aspiration. Yeah it wasn't an aspiration

13:00

back then, but it is now, So that's good.

13:03

That's a major shift. Yeah,

13:05

I was. I was mistreated in many many

13:07

ways. I just wanted to work.

13:10

I wanted to work, and I wasn't

13:12

going to step on anybody's toes and I wasn't going to

13:14

say no when I was uncomfortable, and I

13:16

was just gonna keep my head down and work.

13:19

There are some situations that I was in that you

13:22

know, nobody should be in when they're seventeen

13:24

eighteen nineteen years old or thirty

13:26

five, But that's the reality.

13:29

Did you know you were being mistreated

13:32

at that age at nineteen, yes,

13:34

I knew consciously. I knew that

13:36

it wasn't super kosher,

13:39

and I had discussions

13:42

with my inner circle about it, not

13:44

my business inner circle, my personal

13:46

inner circle, and I

13:49

didn't do anything about it. I didn't fight back.

13:52

I just I took what I could get. Really,

13:54

and I'm talking about being

13:57

made to feel like I

14:00

didn't really have a choice or i'd

14:02

upset somebody. I

14:04

wish more people had been looking out

14:06

for me in these productions,

14:09

and it's nothing major. I came.

14:12

I came out of all the power

14:16

struggle that you know, I didn't.

14:18

I wasn't taken advantage of in

14:21

any extreme way. I came out

14:23

on scathe in that way, thank god, because I don't

14:25

know how I would have been able to deal with that. But

14:28

but I but you know, I wasn't. I

14:30

wasn't respected the way I should have been respected,

14:33

and I let people disrespect me and

14:36

I paid the consequences. And I can

14:38

talk about it because I think things

14:40

are changing. I think having intimacy coaches,

14:43

where were they where? Why

14:46

was nobody like the costumers

14:48

on set were super helpful, but

14:50

it's not up to them. It's up to that people

14:53

way further at the top to make sure that

14:56

young women, young men weren't

14:58

feeling like they were being objectified and

15:01

having to speak up when it was scary

15:04

too. Shouldn't be scary. There

15:07

should be an open dialogue. I think there is no I really,

15:09

I really do, thinks so. And there are a lot of people that

15:12

are comfortable doing anything, and

15:14

there are a lot of people that aren't. And I

15:17

think it's finally coming to a point

15:19

where everybody's getting on the same page

15:21

before this discomfort

15:23

starts happening and you start feeling like you're

15:26

taking advantage of well, I'm

15:29

sorry. It's embarrassing how

15:31

many of those bad decisions are bad decision making

15:34

came from men and positions

15:36

of power. It's hard

15:38

to reconcile. Also because I know

15:40

many people listening are huge

15:43

fans of your work and even

15:46

thinking about me and girls where you're

15:48

nineteen years old in this movie seventeen,

15:51

So at seventeen, you're in this movie,

15:53

and part of that movie

15:56

is like the absolute comedic

15:58

genius and joy that you bring to

16:01

it. Thanks and yet at

16:03

the same time there

16:05

is this other reality happening

16:08

where you are feeling discomfort.

16:11

Well, it wasn't. It wasn't Mean Girls where I felt

16:16

free and it was I

16:18

mean, Mean Girls was the perfect first movie. It

16:20

was. It was soon after that

16:22

that I was just thrust into this

16:24

world. And because before Mean Girls,

16:27

I was on a soap opera and I just auditioned

16:29

and I got it, and

16:31

then I lived in La and then I was up

16:33

for all this stuff and I was getting all this stuff

16:35

and it was great. But that

16:38

the memory of that movie is pure.

16:41

And my mom was around too, so

16:43

you better believe that was safe. I

16:46

felt really taken care of. And yeah,

16:48

there's maybe a silly question, but do you remember

16:51

that first day on set? Yeah,

16:55

very clearly. The whole experience

16:57

started with Lacy Shabert

17:00

and her kindness, and

17:02

she welcomed me in to

17:04

her trailer and we would just listening to Dido and have that

17:07

Baize candle going. Anytime

17:09

I hear it or smell it, it's Lacy. And

17:13

I just remember Mark Water is

17:15

just treating me like I'd been doing this forever,

17:17

in a nice way, and he

17:19

knew I was anxious and i was

17:21

doing the weather report with the rain

17:23

tower, and I've never seen I'd never seen

17:26

a movie camera, let alone a rain

17:28

tower or a huge

17:30

crew outside of this high school people

17:32

laughing at my performance. Everything about

17:35

Mark Waters had this giant bursting

17:37

laugh. And I'll never

17:39

forget that either. There's so many things

17:41

that just cemented into my soul with

17:44

that movie because it was such a positive experience

17:46

and everybody was so wonderful. We all

17:48

got along so well, and we go out

17:50

to dinner on the weekends and I just I just remember

17:53

when and there was food. I mean that was I

17:55

just see so much food too, and I think about

17:58

it. I was just eating so much

18:00

food because it was free and I'd

18:02

never even heard the term Crest services. As

18:05

nervous as I was, as

18:07

curious as I was as to why I was there, I

18:10

also felt like this was the beginning

18:13

of something that I was going to want to do

18:15

forever. It propelled the move

18:17

to LA and it

18:19

made me feel like I belong there. I'm

18:22

kind of psychic. I have a

18:25

fifth sense. It's like I have ESPN

18:27

or something. My prests

18:29

can always tell what it's going to rain. Hi.

18:32

This is Karen smith, it's sixty

18:34

degrees and there's just thirty

18:37

percent ships that it's already raining. It

18:39

was such a good experience, like I can do this, this

18:42

is where I belong and I

18:45

did. It turns out I did. We you know, I was.

18:47

I was eighteen when I moved there. I was working

18:50

that whole year. I mean, I haven't stopped working.

18:52

But not everybody is great, and

18:54

that's okay, but people are trying to be better.

18:57

You know, what are you thinking about? Oh

18:59

my god, it's it's the general meetings with

19:01

producers. It's which is. Some of them

19:03

are great, some of them are like, okay, general

19:06

meetings. Being a young actress

19:08

trying around and as an eighteen

19:10

year old going to general meetings and meeting

19:13

vice presidents of studios and just

19:17

constantly auditioning and seeing

19:19

versions of yourself walking around and

19:22

trying not to feel intimidated, and then

19:25

trying to give some of the an

19:27

access to you who you wouldn't otherwise

19:29

give access to, just because you think that that's what they

19:31

want. Because you just want to be liked and

19:34

hired, you give so much of yourself,

19:36

you just vomit yourself

19:38

everywhere just to be understood. And liked

19:41

and respected, and it's the wrong

19:43

way to go about getting it, of course, but

19:46

that's also how you learn. And

19:49

I wouldn't give any of those years back. But

19:52

Hollywood is a cesspool

19:55

and if you don't recognize

19:57

that, you can get in the water and it

20:00

can be hard to like pull yourself out of. But

20:03

then it's also there's just when you're on solid

20:05

ground, it can be really good, but

20:08

you have to learn. And you know, power

20:10

dynamics and people using

20:12

their power and taking advantage

20:14

of especially women. It

20:17

exists. You see it all the time. You're

20:19

seeing it with Cuomo. What don't

20:23

do this, dude, We were counting

20:26

on you to like get us through this. Don't

20:28

be stupid. And every

20:30

there's a spectrum. Of course, there's a spectrum.

20:33

It's not black and white. It never will be. But

20:35

if you make someone uncomfortable, you

20:38

got a problem. But as you were

20:40

coming up in the early two thousands,

20:42

that language around discomfort,

20:45

I mean it wasn't there, No, it wasn't

20:47

there. There was no way to say,

20:50

dude, you're making me uncomfortable. Oh

20:52

you want my number? Okay, sure, yeah,

20:55

you know. It's just it's black and it's

20:57

not black and white. So I guess,

20:59

I guess if anyone, if my daughter

21:01

was asking me advice. No one's asking me advice right now, but if

21:03

my daughter were, I'd say, no, your boundaries, What

21:05

are your boundaries? What makes you comfortable, what doesn't?

21:08

And walk away if you're not comfortable, because

21:10

you're not going to lose your whole life.

21:13

You might lose your job, but what is it

21:15

worth to you if you don't feel safe?

21:17

We didn't have that language. You're right, You're totally right. I mean,

21:20

it was a long time ago. Let's say

21:22

we're in twenty twenty one. I'm

21:24

so grateful that my daughter is

21:27

going to grow up in the next she'll be

21:29

a teenager in the twenty thirties.

21:31

You said something that really, it's such

21:34

a vivid image

21:36

that I don't want to lose, which is that

21:38

you moved to la

21:41

at eighteen eighteen. Yeah, and you

21:43

said, as you were going from

21:45

meeting to meeting looking to find

21:48

what the next steps were, there

21:50

were different versions of yourself around

21:52

town, and I guess

21:54

I wanted to know what what does that mean? There

21:57

was a template blonde

22:00

bomb show, or it was sexy,

22:03

or it was young and curious

22:06

or whatever it was whatever

22:08

team show needed the lead or the second

22:11

lead or the third lead, but it was usually

22:14

blonde, big guyed, glamorous,

22:18

sexy, like just okay,

22:21

they were templates. They weren't They weren't real

22:24

people, which is fine, you know,

22:26

that's what that's what casting calls

22:28

are like. You know, you you get your

22:30

opportunity to show the human humanity

22:32

in each character, but the descriptions

22:35

on the page that you get not even

22:37

emailed to you, mailed to you, or

22:39

you'd have to go and pick up the script

22:42

from your agency.

22:45

And mine was in Santa Monica, because you can

22:47

just imagine how difficult that was. And

22:51

and so I just, yeah, it was intimidating

22:53

to see blondehaired girls

22:55

who have way better bodies than I did. I

22:58

have very short torsos, so it's hard

23:00

to And then my boobs were a little too big

23:02

from my body, which I felt, that's

23:04

how I felt that it's not true,

23:06

and I was awkward, and I

23:09

had a problem with free food. I would I was

23:11

a heavier back then, not heavyer in a bad

23:14

way, heavier in a healthy way,

23:16

although it was because of sugar really

23:18

and donuts, but it was

23:21

impossible for me not to look

23:23

at these women and think

23:26

I need to make money so I can get good shoes like

23:28

them. I need to straighten my hair,

23:30

I need to I need to show up, you

23:33

know, looking better. It turns

23:35

out it didn't need all that, and because right

23:37

away I got I got two jobs. I

23:40

actually think what you're describing is

23:43

a deeply human thing,

23:45

which is that all of us, if

23:47

we're lucky, turn eighteen

23:50

nineteen, you're leaving high

23:52

school, you're a senior in high school. It's

23:55

a deeply like traumatizing

23:57

and scary time where

24:00

you're comparing yourself to others

24:02

and you don't really know who

24:04

you are, and maybe you're going to university

24:07

and comparing yourself with your new dorm

24:09

mates. You're just

24:12

describing it within an industry. How

24:14

do you negotiate who you

24:16

are within an apparatus

24:18

that's trying to tell you who you should be?

24:21

Yeah, I mean, listen, there's a bajillion

24:23

answers, and it's

24:26

hard to because it is true that you I

24:28

mean, how could you possibly know who you are when

24:31

you're that age, whether you're

24:33

in I mean college, I can't even imagine

24:36

it. I was surrounded by

24:38

all those people too, but in a

24:40

position of a professional world,

24:43

it was it was a little bit more cutthroat.

24:46

There's a lot more rejection happening in

24:48

my university time.

24:50

I was always surrounded. I have good family

24:53

of a really good sister. My parents loved

24:55

me. They always supported me. I

24:57

think knowing that I would

24:59

no matter what I did or what happened, I

25:02

was always going to be loved and supported no

25:04

matter what. I think that helps. But also if you

25:06

don't have that surrounding yourself with really good friends.

25:09

Also, I'm still what the agent I was with, then we're

25:12

family. I don't know. You have to kind

25:14

of go through it in order to get

25:16

to the other side. And I think

25:18

it's always important to remember that it's just it's

25:21

everybody's issue with that they

25:24

may have but that may seem like they have with you, is really

25:26

about themselves. I mean that's something I learned

25:28

and way too late of an age. Someone's

25:31

got an issue with me, it's unless

25:33

I've done something that I know, you know, unless

25:36

I've purposely offended somebody.

25:39

That's a really tough and that's a tough thing

25:41

to answer. Is there a moment

25:43

or a film in those early

25:45

years after Me and Girls, where

25:48

you look back and think, Okay, I

25:50

really like that one, well mean Girls,

25:52

I mean, I have more appreciation for it now than

25:55

I did back then when I when I watched it for the first

25:57

time, but I was still pretty pretty blown

25:59

away with the fact that I came out in

26:01

a way that worked for the for the movie. And

26:04

then I hated myself for a

26:06

while, my acting, but I liked

26:08

my acting and dear John, And that was probably

26:11

the first time, Hey Mama,

26:13

Mia, I you know what it's what did you not like?

26:16

And I didn't like. I

26:18

thought it didn't feel realistic.

26:20

I can big love and Ronica Mars. I didn't think I

26:23

was being very realistic. I didn't believe

26:25

me when I watched it. And that

26:27

comes down to not being able

26:29

to watch yourself and being way too judgmental,

26:34

like completely not able to be

26:36

objective about any bit, knowing

26:38

what I was going through while I was shooting it, and not

26:40

just not being able to be outside of it. And

26:43

also I was a little lazy. I

26:45

tend to be a little lazy. So there

26:47

are always scenes in every movie that

26:49

I see and I'm like, oh, oh,

26:52

you weren't tapped in there. What does that

26:54

laziness look like As an actor,

26:57

it looks like not memorizing

26:59

your lines. Yeah, I got in

27:01

trouble on a movie once and

27:03

I cried in front of the cast.

27:06

Well, I try to hold it in. And it

27:09

was because I I didn't

27:12

know the line well enough. It

27:14

deserved to be known,

27:17

and I didn't know it Because

27:19

a lot of the times I make it my own people. Some

27:21

directors and writers are really okay with you ad

27:23

living and changing it a little bit to

27:26

make it feel as natural as possible. This

27:28

was not the movie to do it on and

27:31

that is absolutely fair, And I'm

27:33

I love the lesson was really important

27:35

and I'm so grateful for it. Well,

27:38

I'm not able to be all that. You cannot yell at

27:40

me, do not yell at me.

27:43

I will fall into pieces. I'm

27:45

really bad with authority,

27:48

And yeah I was because I

27:50

should have known everything. I should have known everything

27:52

I should have known. It was the lesson that you should

27:54

be prepared. It went a little

27:56

deeper. If if we're thinking in like psychological

27:59

terms, it's it's about me sabotaging

28:03

myself a little bit, because if

28:05

I worked too hard and I fail

28:07

then then it it

28:09

feels worse. I guess that's part of it,

28:11

but it's also just knowing I'll be able

28:13

to do it in some capacity and that's good

28:15

enough. No, not really. I need

28:17

to be looking at my lines the night before, at least,

28:20

at the very least, because I look

28:22

at them, I read the script, I look at them a bunch, and

28:24

then I let them go. And then we start production

28:26

and maybe we rehearse maybe

28:28

not. If we don't, then I'll learn it the day of, you

28:30

know, when I'm in the hair and makeup chair and it's not

28:32

good enough, and I'm a

28:34

freshman every other way, Why can't I just know

28:37

everything that's written and if if

28:39

the director is cool with us changing some lines, we talk

28:41

about it beforehand. Like I'm

28:44

too old to feel like to have these nightmares

28:46

about not knowing the lines and being on

28:49

set, or even when we're rehearsing a scene

28:52

on set before we shoot, before they

28:54

set the lights up and get everything

28:56

ready for us, I still have that

28:58

thing where I pull the sides out and

29:00

I'm pretending to know what the lines

29:02

are, but I don't know them,

29:04

and my butt is clenched, and I know

29:07

it's wrong, and why I put myself through

29:09

that. I feel ashamed?

29:11

And why if you can control

29:13

moments of shame, you should

29:16

because they build and they build and they build, and all

29:18

of a sudden you have like an issue with something, and

29:21

I can control that. I can learn my lines.

29:23

You know, I've been looking down looking

29:25

at a notebook that I have. Do you want

29:27

to see what's on this notebook? Do? I?

29:30

Oh? No, I'm doing the exact

29:32

same thing what you're saying about

29:34

looking at the script. We all

29:36

do these things to kind of I

29:38

don't know, get by yes,

29:41

and that's okay, Yeah, it is,

29:44

for sure, it does. It is okay. I

29:46

really thought you were going to laugh at the empty notebook. I

29:48

know, I got worried. I was like, I felt like my

29:51

first instinct was, did I do something wrong? No?

29:53

I also have eight pages of notes right

29:56

here on the screw. No, You've done nothing

29:58

wrong. Why is that your first instinct? Adult

30:01

child of? It's

30:04

just a friend of mine

30:07

wrote a poem. It's called it adult child

30:09

of and it was I sent it to everybody

30:12

I knew who has in

30:15

that program adult

30:17

child of Alcoholics or whatever, and

30:20

and I think it's fascinating the traits

30:23

that we all share. I mean, most people share these

30:25

traits on a level, but for

30:27

us it's I mean collectively,

30:30

it's we don't want to be in the way. It's

30:32

an amazing I should send it to you. Do you have an Instagram?

30:35

I'm sure I do. I'm gonna send it

30:37

to you because it's so amazing. I don't. I mean, I'm not

30:39

going to ask you about your upbringing, but and

30:41

I'm not going to say much about mine because

30:44

my father is like the funniest, sweetest

30:48

man on the planet. But

30:50

I grew up in you know, he

30:52

he struggled and he got better and

30:55

and I and I have a program,

30:57

and sometimes I dip in, sometimes

31:00

I dip out, and it's not perfect, but

31:02

I at least I know I can recognize

31:04

it happening. Right. The

31:06

first step is admitting you're having

31:08

that feeling or anyway

31:10

I'm going to send it to you. Is that too much information?

31:13

No, it's not. You can send it because I'd like

31:15

to read it. It's a it's also for everybody.

31:17

But she's an amazing poet, and so I

31:19

think I think it should be seen out. You know, maybe

31:21

I should just repost it. How about that. If you

31:24

have it in front of you, do you want me to read it? Okay? I

31:26

do, adult child of Hey,

31:28

can I ask you something? And it's no big deal

31:30

really, And if you don't have the space or room to answer,

31:32

I can totally wait until you do. I can

31:34

wait out here on the couch, no problem. This couch is

31:36

actually really comfortable, and you can leave the window open.

31:39

I'm not cold at all, and honestly, to be

31:41

honest, I actually feel better when I'm a little

31:43

on the chili side. It keeps me awake and fresh faced.

31:45

Oh and thank you for the water bottle? Should I

31:47

venmo? You? Fuck? I forgot to take my shoes off when

31:49

I came in. I can totally no problem. Just I

31:52

just mop up my trail from the front door. Is this where you

31:54

keep the stuff for that? Oh? Wow, look at this picture of your mother.

31:56

She's so beautiful. Tell me about her. Oh

31:58

and also, ps, not to be weird or anything, but that question,

32:01

well, I just I just wanted to know, And so you can

32:03

be honest with me. You can just you just go ahead

32:05

and just I can take it. But just just throw it

32:08

at me. But are you mad at me? Only because

32:10

the first few times you texted me to head on over you

32:12

you use an exclamation point, and well, it's just

32:14

that tonight you didn't. And then when

32:16

I got here, you asked me first where I parked instead of

32:18

saying hi, which is totally cool actually and real, real

32:20

quick, thank you. I'm sorry. Are you okay?

32:22

You're doing great? I love you. Here are

32:24

my hands. You can use them however however you need.

32:26

I'm not actually crying. My face just looks. It's

32:29

this fumble thing when I'm tired. Everyone good,

32:32

Everyone great, everyone feeling super duper good about themselves.

32:34

Great, Then me too. I said it too fast, but

32:36

it's just perfect to represent

32:40

by the way, Amanda, Yeah,

32:42

the fact that you get at the end of

32:45

that performance and the

32:47

first thing you say is I

32:49

said it too fast. I did the

32:52

whole time. I'm sitting here thinking,

32:55

well, this is fantastic. I was

32:57

hitting on myself the whole time. Adult child, Why

33:00

is that the first instinct? The

33:02

first instinct comes from the first way. The

33:04

way I did it was to do it too fast,

33:07

do it too fast, to get it out of the way in case I

33:09

was in the way, in case it was something

33:11

that you didn't want to hear in case I made you uncomfortable.

33:14

But I said I wanted to hear it exactly,

33:16

and I didn't listen to that. Isn't

33:19

that crazy? Yeah,

33:21

I mean I am listening to. It's I'm not always

33:23

nay saying everything. I do trust people

33:25

at their word, and I for the most part, it's

33:28

it's just so interesting to get

33:30

into into that and the nitty gritty

33:33

of how people operate because a

33:35

lot of it comes from the same place of not wanting

33:38

to be in the way, of not wanting to be a

33:40

burden over apologizing.

33:44

It's an it's it's a pandemic. And

33:49

I think I'm better than I was for sure. My god, could

33:51

you imagine me when I was twenty

33:54

I can imagine. And you're how old twenty six?

33:56

You said you're pretty good though you're pretty

33:59

self aware already at the

34:01

at this fray age of twenty six, which

34:04

is great, and I think that's probably why you have

34:06

this show. Well, thank you. I

34:10

wish I can convince you that you're

34:12

not in the way, and I think I think

34:14

I should add for the context

34:17

of people listening, I have sent

34:19

Amanda a very taxing

34:23

microphone I

34:25

am in the way. If anything, I am the inconvenient

34:27

one. I have forced her to download

34:30

Audacity to do this podcast.

34:32

She sent two audio

34:35

tests on two different

34:37

days. This is this

34:40

is telling the story of you. It's true.

34:42

I did, and you didn't complain to me. Oh, I

34:44

was complaining. I was complaining. I

34:46

was complaining to Rose who works, who's

34:49

at the relevant, who

34:52

represent me, my PR people, and

34:54

I was complaining to her. I wasn't complaining, like

34:56

just jackhead, why don't you expect

34:59

me to do this? I wasn't saying that. I was saying, why

35:01

can't I figure this out? I don't understand

35:04

why this isn't working the way it should be

35:06

working. I hate technology.

35:09

I'm not right for this. I wrote

35:11

very like sort of I hope like human

35:15

guides to setting it up. Yeah, it was

35:17

great, but I always fear with

35:19

people, and they're going to have that response. Of course.

35:21

I have

35:24

a very hard time asking people to

35:26

do anything. I

35:28

don't want anyone to ever think I'm taking the advantage

35:31

of them. Genevieve my amazing

35:33

makeup artist, and I wanted Ronado,

35:35

who does my hair, to take a picture of my lips

35:38

because it's a really good color. And I was outside

35:40

and I was like, get my lips and

35:42

I felt so bad, and

35:45

he was happy to do it,

35:48

and I noticed that it was difficult for

35:51

me, but I did it anyway and

35:53

it was nothing happened. Did

35:55

you feel better after you asked? Yes, I did?

35:58

I did. I felt a lot better. The

36:00

silly things we do are human

36:02

brains. This is why animals have such an easier

36:05

time. I mean, they don't get this

36:07

level of consciousness, but

36:09

it's fun to talk about. This does silly,

36:11

It can be really silly, but it's always

36:14

it's rooted in something real, and hopefully

36:17

generations to come will

36:20

explore that. I think it drought

36:22

in something real because this

36:24

morning I rewatched your scenes

36:27

and Mank, and there's

36:30

a scene in this movie. I actually think this

36:32

scene tells the whole story

36:35

of the movie. Do you want to set it up

36:37

before we play the clip? I haven't seen the movie

36:39

yet, but I'm pretty sure you're talking about kidding. Um.

36:43

He's asking Marian. Mank

36:45

is asking Marian if if she can call

36:48

get in touch with hers to try to stop

36:50

the films from being distributed. And she's

36:54

basically saying I can't get in touch

36:56

with him, so he's not going to be of any help. And he's

36:58

like, can you go back to the

37:00

studio. She's in the car leaving and

37:03

ask mayor to pull the

37:05

phony Sinclair Films? Mary, and

37:07

I need it's just a little

37:09

joke him, Willy shu man anything. I

37:12

want you to go back and tell mayor

37:14

Willie wants the phony Sinclair

37:17

Films pulled? Which

37:21

phony Sinclair Films. There isn't

37:23

time, you explained. I just need you to tell him

37:25

that. Oh I couldn't, not even

37:27

as a joke. Why not? You

37:29

know I don't lie, and

37:32

that's why he would believe you. Maryon,

37:35

Please, you're not incumbent school anymore.

37:41

I'm sorry. I know it's

37:43

silly, but why not promise

37:46

you won't laugh? I promise I won't

37:48

laugh. My exit?

37:52

What I already

37:54

made my exit? She

38:06

had made her exit,

38:09

and that means everything.

38:12

They are like bookmarks. You can't

38:14

she's a movie star.

38:16

She has left the building. She hasn't

38:18

even left the building. She's got her trailer

38:21

on six different carts,

38:24

and she's she cannot go back and

38:26

be so embarrassing. You just don't do

38:28

that, no matter what. And I

38:30

think that's funny. It's just a matter of fact. Now that's a

38:32

fact. Well, I

38:34

just made my exit, which is the funniest

38:36

line. It's the funniest line. If

38:38

you had only seen that scene, you

38:41

would think that she was a ditz.

38:44

It is so matter of fact. But

38:46

the stakes on the other side about

38:48

this kind of like insurgent political

38:51

campaign that's going to be derailed by

38:53

a propaganda film, a campaign

38:55

that is probably in the best interests

38:57

of the working people, that

39:00

it could be helped by

39:03

a call or a gesture or

39:06

a car turning around. To

39:08

me, that one scene represented

39:11

how fickle everything

39:14

is in Hollywood. It's terrifying.

39:17

And I think it's

39:19

not like she Marian was

39:21

even in the ballpark of thinking

39:24

about the repercussions of

39:26

her not assisting. This

39:29

just doesn't even come to mind. There's

39:31

no wise like, oh alright,

39:33

my hands are tied. She's

39:37

like a rule. The rules that were just not like

39:40

unwritten rules everywhere

39:42

were terrifying minefield to be walking

39:44

in, especially as a woman. When

39:46

you read that passage

39:49

and mank given your

39:52

fourteen fifteen years in

39:55

this field, do you read

39:57

that and think, wow, that is profoundly

39:59

true. That is an accurate sort

40:02

of snapshot of what it is

40:04

to be in this strange, peculiar

40:07

industry. Everything I run in that script

40:10

made me shake my head. Every

40:12

similarity between now and then, I mean,

40:14

the political cycle that happens

40:17

to prove that humans do not change,

40:20

They do not change, they do not evolve

40:23

fast enough. The fact that we were in

40:26

the position that we were in economically,

40:28

everything socially, when I read

40:30

the script just blew my mind. And

40:33

the way Marian spoke yes, it's

40:36

it's like, oh my god, what

40:38

are we doing? Because it's so true

40:40

And the way a bank expresses it,

40:43

the puns, the way the

40:45

dialogue just moves so quickly

40:48

and tell and explains things

40:50

so quickly, and it's heartbreaking. Not

40:53

a great story for Maryon, at least for

40:55

any of them. Maybe mayor

40:58

definitely not for Hearst. Did

41:00

you kind of experience a

41:03

similar heartbreak upon realizing

41:07

the nature of this industry? In

41:09

some ways, it doesn't feel

41:11

like a safe place for people that aren't

41:14

true who they are. It

41:16

doesn't support people. It

41:18

is cutthroat, will always be cut throat. People

41:20

want to make money. You have

41:22

to be in charge of your own best interest, and

41:25

if you're not you're fucked.

41:28

And that's every industry. Everything comes down

41:30

to money at the end of the day. But there are always

41:33

clusters of people, giant clusters

41:35

of people that are doing it because they

41:37

love it, and when

41:39

you swim with those people, then

41:41

it makes it all worthwhile. And in

41:44

every industry, the people in

41:46

charge who are in charge because

41:49

they want to buy another house in safe

41:51

Barts or refurbish

41:53

their jet. And then there are so

41:55

many people that want to make

41:57

good content, they want to have good

42:00

experiences, and they're present in what they

42:02

do and they treat people nicely.

42:04

You'll find them. They're there. That makes

42:06

me feel saying that helps you

42:09

know you can offset the things that break

42:12

your heart a little bit. It seems like now

42:15

you're in charge of where you want to go. Yes

42:18

i am. I'm thirty five years old. I

42:20

have to be. You're making it sound like this

42:23

is this is what Hollywood does to you.

42:25

No, this is what I'm choosing to say. The

42:28

truth is, it's nice to be out of

42:30

the angenew zone and it's

42:32

nice to be taken seriously, and it's

42:34

nice to have this so

42:36

many opportunities, like so many interesting

42:39

characters to play. Marian's the first

42:42

character I played after having kids

42:44

who didn't have kids. I'm a mom now,

42:46

but I'm not just a mom. I mean,

42:49

as an artist in the industry, I

42:51

play a mom, but I'm not just playing a mom. It's

42:53

not one dimensional like that, luckily,

42:56

and and I feel like

42:58

the characters are only getting more complex,

43:01

which is the way it should be. I

43:04

like to think of this show as

43:07

a kind of time capsule of

43:11

who you are in this

43:13

moment, who I am in this moment.

43:15

But I want to know because you you just

43:18

had your second child, right yep.

43:21

If they are to sort of listen

43:23

to this one day, and I'm not saying and I'm

43:25

not so arrogant to think they will, but let's

43:28

say they do. Yeah, they do.

43:30

What do you want them to know about

43:33

who you are at thirty five

43:35

and where you want to go from

43:38

here? Children, I'm

43:41

thirty five, and I think

43:43

it's important to appreciate

43:46

where where I am, and that's

43:50

that's a good step step ahead. I

43:54

do not have any regrets. I'm

43:56

worth a lot to myself. Life

43:58

is long but really fast, and

44:02

my priority is to be present

44:04

in everything that I do and to be deliberate

44:07

and the choices I make, and to make sure that

44:09

I don't hurt anybody, and

44:11

to find the fun wherever possible.

44:15

And I hope that I

44:17

have given you space

44:20

to be who you are, feel the things you

44:22

feel, all the while feeling

44:25

supported and safe

44:28

no matter what happens. Is

44:30

that that event, I thought it was

44:32

great. I should write that down. It's her

44:34

birthday soon, she's going to be four in a couple

44:36

of weeks, and I was thinking I made her

44:38

a card when she turned one, and I found it the other

44:41

day and it was beautiful,

44:44

and it's still how I feel. What did it say?

44:46

That? Basically that, but like in a lot of

44:48

words I can. I wish I had a photographic

44:51

memory. But it was

44:53

beautiful and it made me like really

44:55

proud of where I was, where I was even then.

44:58

You know, it feels like forever ago. Four years feels

45:00

forever ago three years when I wrote that.

45:02

But but I was the same. I'm not in

45:05

looking back like you weren't that different

45:07

when you were twenty one when you moved, But

45:09

you have changed and evolved in

45:11

giant ways, but your essence is the same.

45:13

You're still the generosity and

45:15

the compassion, that's all. That's all the same, or

45:18

maybe more so. But it's not like you

45:20

were born without it, and you you know you're

45:22

you're born with something right, and

45:25

that's special. And you kind of

45:27

know at early early

45:29

on whether or not you want to hurt people or make them feel

45:31

good. So even if you make mistakes

45:33

and you have shame and all that, like

45:36

experiences of life just pull you down

45:38

and you do stupid shit, that

45:41

doesn't take away from the fact that you're a good person.

45:43

I heard you say that you want to

45:45

keep acting until you die.

45:48

Yeah, what does that work look like? Okay,

45:50

can I just tell you someone else's career who I've

45:53

loved, Yes, Chain Fonda,

45:56

She's still I mean she's she

45:58

gets better and better, right, I want

46:00

to get better and better. I want to continue making

46:02

an impact. Her career has been.

46:04

She's seems to love it. I

46:07

just want to work. I want my kids to

46:09

be happy and healthy and be proud

46:11

of their mother working.

46:14

Not working too much, but working, you know. I want

46:16

to make it work for me. I people

46:18

who still show up to work, and just like Judy

46:20

Den, she still shows up to work, knows their lines

46:23

and kills it. Someone who's you

46:25

know, seems not very precious, you know, seems

46:27

like they can take the joke up until they're dead. You

46:29

know. It's it's not easy to age

46:32

and help to be a woman, an aging woman in Hollywood.

46:35

As I've been told. I'm not old, but

46:37

I've been told it's not easy to be on

46:39

her microscope and aging. And I

46:42

hope you know that doesn't affect

46:44

me. I have a feeling you're going to be just all right,

46:46

Okay, I hope So thanks, that's my that's

46:49

my guess. What do I know? You know

46:51

a lot for twenty six year old, right, if

46:53

you say so, I'll take the compliment. Manna

46:56

Seifreid, thank you very much

46:58

for coming on, Samforgoso, It's

47:01

been an absolute pleasure. So

47:04

this microphone you want it back? I guess

47:06

yeah, I think we'll take it back for sure. And

47:52

that's our show special thanks

47:54

this week to Christie Scott, Nathan Marcy

47:57

rose Pool, and Christine Martinez.

48:00

I'd also like to thank Amanda si Fred.

48:02

Her latest performance comes in David

48:05

Fincher's Bank, which is now

48:07

available to stream on Flix.

48:10

To learn more about Amanda and her work,

48:12

visit our show notes at www dot

48:15

talk easypod dot com.

48:17

If you'd like to hear other conversations

48:19

with actors, I'd recommend our

48:21

talks with Matthew McConaughey, Jenny

48:23

Slate, Britt Marling, Alison

48:26

Pill, Titus Burgess and

48:28

Janelle Money. You can listen

48:30

and subscribe to our show on Spotify,

48:32

Apple Podcasts, Google podcast, Stitcher,

48:35

wherever you do your listening.

48:37

If you'd like to join our mailing list, drop

48:39

me a line at talk easypod at

48:42

gmail dot com. You

48:44

can also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram

48:46

at talk easypod and

48:49

as always, our show is made

48:51

possible each week by our

48:53

incredible team. Our executive

48:55

producer is Jannick Sobravo. Illustrations

48:58

by Christia Schanoy. Our associate

49:00

producer is Nicky Spina. Our lead editor

49:03

is Andre Lynn. Our editor

49:05

for today's show is Clariski Vara.

49:07

Our assistant editors are Joshua Siegel

49:10

and Kevin Core. Music

49:12

by Dylan Peck. Our interns

49:14

are Caitlin Dryden, Claire Hardwick, Jilly

49:17

Harold, Patrice Lee and Grace

49:19

Perkins. Video and graphics

49:21

by Ian Chang, Derek gaberzach O'Ryan

49:23

Huang Ian Jones and Ethan Seneca

49:27

and of course the show is

49:29

produced by Caroline Reebok. I'm

49:31

sanfordgo so thank you for

49:34

listening to Talk Easy. We'll

49:36

be back next week with Jenna Wortham and Kimberly

49:38

Drew. Until then, stay

49:41

safe and so long,