0:06

welcome to talking, feds a round

0:09

table that brings together prominent figures

0:11

from government law and journalism for

0:13

a a dynamic discussion of the most important

0:15

topics of the day i'm harry

0:17

litman federal judge i leaned

0:19

can instruct again this week with

0:22

an opinion denying the department of

0:24

justice's measured motion for

0:26

a stay of her previous ruling

0:28

that permitted donald trump a special

0:31

master to sift through the documents

0:33

seized and mara lago not

0:35

just for attorney client but also

0:37

for executive privilege the

0:40

latest blow strain the imagination

0:43

of commentators to come up with ever

0:45

more extravagant words for

0:47

hair ago

0:48

the department promptly brought a motion

0:51

in the court of appeals for an emergency state

0:53

along the same marrow lines asking

0:56

just to be able to use about one hundred

0:59

classified documents seized

1:01

from trump's mara lago estate

1:04

if the d o j same was tight in

1:06

the morrow lago matter it was

1:08

scattershot for the continuing investigation

1:11

or investigations into

1:13

events on and around january six

1:16

the , shots at d o j for not investigating

1:19

was sufficient vigor seems forgotten

1:22

as we learned about activity involving

1:24

mark meadows jeff clark save

1:27

america pac and others

1:29

leaving no doubt that d o j is

1:31

casting a wide investigative

1:33

net meanwhile the january

1:35

six committee has announced it's next

1:38

hearing it's next weeks from now on

1:40

september twenty eighth though it remains

1:42

unclear including apparently

1:44

to the committee itself just what

1:46

the agenda will be an whether other

1:49

hearings may follow south

1:51

carolina sen lindsey graham

1:53

introduced a bill providing

1:56

for a nationwide ban on

1:58

abortions after fifteen weeks

2:00

of pregnancy with some few

2:02

exceptions they've landed with

2:04

a side in the senate and the republican

2:07

caucus graham bell

2:09

aggravated the republicans complicated

2:11

calculus over abortion

2:13

and the supreme court decision overturning

2:16

roe v wade issues as

2:18

seem to be keeping the democrats competitive

2:20

or even slight favorites

2:23

moving one week closer to the midterm

2:26

to try to make sense of these many

2:28

moving parts and analyze

2:30

where they sit in the broader picture of

2:32

a divided government and a volatile

2:34

electorate we're really pleased to

2:37

welcome three of the country's most knowledgeable

2:39

commentators and they are

2:42

whoop broadwater a congressional reporter

2:45

in the washington bureau of the new york times

2:47

he began his career at the baltimore sun

2:50

where he won the twenty twenty pulitzer

2:52

prize for local reporting and

2:54

the george polk award for political reporting

2:57

look supporting in baltimore lead to

2:59

traffic enforcement reforms and

3:02

the passage of a state constitutional

3:04

amendment redirecting to see no revenue

3:07

back to the state's public schools

3:09

this is his first time on

3:11

talking fed so pleased to welcome

3:14

you loop thanks for reading

3:15

x randomly

3:17

george gone way not his first time

3:19

i'm happy to say i'm talking feds a

3:21

prominent american attorney

3:24

are contributing columnist of the washington

3:26

post a cofounder of the lincoln

3:28

projects and a founding member

3:30

of checks and balances a group

3:33

of conservative lawyer standing

3:35

up for the rule of law a season

3:37

supreme court advocate towards successfully

3:40

argued the twenty ten case morrison

3:42

vs national australia bank before

3:44

the us supreme court george

3:46

thanks very much for returning to

3:48

talking fair for out and

3:51

jan rodgers a cnn

3:54

legal analyst a lecture at

3:56

columbia law school and and add

3:58

john clinical professor at and

3:59

why you law school jen worked

4:02

for many years in the us attorney's office

4:04

for the southern district of new york

4:06

where she served as the cheap of the organized

4:09

crime unit and the chief of the general

4:11

crimes unit see is a charter

4:13

member up talking feds and

4:15

i had good friends and thank you so much for

4:17

joining the tv her hair right

4:20

so happy things happened

4:22

this week down in mara

4:24

lago land i want to begin

4:27

with a comment from bill kristol from last

4:29

week's episode where he noted you

4:31

know all these smarty pants lawyers

4:34

that he's in conversation with the said no

4:36

way said scam and could do this is

4:38

just couldn't write and he and

4:40

non lawyer was saying i mean maybe

4:42

but it seems like stranger things

4:44

have happened while stranger things now

4:47

has happened this week and

4:49

we have an opinion from judge

4:51

can in that does

4:54

denies or most for a stay

4:56

so let me just start

4:58

with the question from bell were

5:01

you surprised

5:03

that can and doubled down and

5:06

didn't grow up to stay

5:08

i would be brian

5:09

and i guess you always want

5:11

the best of the ball and you want to think

5:13

that federal judges are going to do their jobs

5:16

and decide matters based

5:18

on the fact in the law before them so

5:20

i was very surprised when she granted

5:23

the motion in the first place and then when

5:25

d o j gave her a very

5:27

reasonable very narrow

5:30

the request an opportunity to

5:32

save it all and just walk back

5:35

the ruling with respect to the hundred

5:37

classified documents i thought she would

5:39

jump at it and she did not so

5:42

it's a terrible decision we'll see

5:44

what happens in the circuit but yeah

5:46

colors

5:47

friday he goes towards you

5:49

and i don't know if you know this we were on

5:51

war and get the said set the same tossed

5:53

him i think i use the word

5:56

atrocities you i think

5:58

though quoting bill bars

5:59

it

6:00

hunk of said or something unsettling video

6:03

and it's what so friggin

6:05

terrible about this decision

6:08

i quoted hill bar in

6:10

estimable do

6:12

bar rescue

6:13

as

6:15

saying that the motion

6:16

filed

6:18

by trump's lawyers was, what

6:21

year was on many levels are basically

6:23

was no support legal support for the

6:25

the proposition that the search was in

6:28

any way didn't make that argument to the shed

6:30

showed irreparable harm, because mostly

6:33

belong to the government and city they

6:36

were any personal items there the personal

6:38

items were evidence of a

6:40

mixed in with government

6:42

materials there evidence that he had possessed them

6:44

and they're entitled to that too and

6:47

there just was just no basis

6:50

for the motion until be center client didn't

6:52

really make us civic showing in it

6:54

was just was tail, why you very,

6:57

very large classified dog so

6:59

it was a crock of it exactly

7:01

as bill barr said and what

7:04

made this worse at? what i

7:06

i said was the judge's opinion last night was worse?

7:08

than a crock of shit and it's for the reason that and

7:10

pointed out i mean they were giving her

7:12

a way out the justice department

7:15

by saying you can have your

7:17

special master

7:18

this

7:19

don't

7:20

block us from looking at the documents

7:22

that are marked classified

7:25

the not

7:26

makes perfect sense because there's no doubt that the

7:28

documents that iraq classified work midst

7:30

of one point classify that they're sensitive national

7:32

security information doesn't really matter

7:34

with is a class by the purposes of

7:36

the statutes that were cited in the search

7:38

warrant affidavit but at

7:41

the same time there's no question that the documents

7:43

do not belong to donald trump

7:45

there was personal stop in their wealth that support

7:48

didn't get a pass but the faculty not

7:50

the aisle as a matter of was amended a presidential

7:52

records act to these documents me

7:54

the hidden suffer any ruff boulders no legal

7:56

basis for and there was no basis for

7:58

equivalently

7:59

then the justice farming gave

8:02

her away and she

8:04

didn't take it as standpoint

8:06

i mean she had to go to incredible contortions

8:09

to baseless create factual

8:11

legal issues that don't exist the

8:13

justice department pride evidence that these

8:15

materials were classified trump doesn't

8:18

deny they provide evidence

8:20

of obstruction trump doesn't

8:21

have anything to say about that

8:24

trump has offered no basis for why

8:26

he has these doc

8:27

they didn't even assert as

8:29

trump has asserted probably that

8:32

the documents were declassified you know

8:34

willy nilly by his brain waves

8:36

are corner the magnificent style there

8:38

was no basis whatsoever

8:41

not a good the govern what a neat and it is hop

8:43

of that there's the whole thing about her contention is

8:45

somehow then i i look i'm

8:47

not an expert on never worked for classified material

8:49

il has not been so galore as me as a little

8:51

awkward but even i can guess

8:54

that the intelligence aspects of this investigation

8:57

are inextricably entwined with criminal

8:59

asphyxia investigation because you're a criminal

9:01

investigative need to know how sensitive

9:03

these materials

9:04

the war and if you're on the counter intelligence

9:06

ai you need to know what happened a dot

9:08

which requires

9:10

the criminal investigators to ask questions you can

9:12

separate the but it's like having an arson

9:14

investigation are you going to have the police running

9:16

around trying to figure out what's going on without

9:18

talking to the fire experts you can't do it

9:21

or an airplane crash that might have been terrorism

9:23

going to have yes the ice not work

9:25

with aviation experts it's crazy she

9:27

has no power tell the government had a run

9:29

it's investigations why is one part of the executive

9:32

branch get to do this and another plan to be secular

9:34

branch not get to do it's and at

9:36

the say so federal judge you i'm

9:38

a member of the federal aside and still a

9:40

member of the border visitors and i'm sorry

9:42

and responsible even separation of powers

9:44

here

9:45

where did you say that the executive power the united

9:47

states job invested in the

9:49

united states district judge him some

9:52

obscure division of the southern

9:54

district of for apple doesn't effect of course let

9:56

alone a specialist

9:57

i just want to add a point

9:59

what you had said which is these

10:02

three propositions

10:04

that he just went over actually

10:07

when he says there's no basis

10:09

no one can dispute there's

10:11

no basis and she actually

10:14

didn't try to dispute

10:16

that if these are classified documents

10:19

the he has zero possessor

10:22

interests now what he had argued

10:24

is well classified

10:26

maybe but all we know is that the government

10:28

says they're classified which

10:31

was gibberish right that's

10:33

what it means for something to be classified

10:35

and then second trump had said

10:38

once again in the public sphere with howard's

10:40

you a drive declassified but very pointedly

10:43

he won't make that argument in court

10:45

where there would be sanctions

10:47

for lying but he said

10:49

in his papers the nonsensical well

10:52

may be he might have

10:54

done it now but you know what a district

10:56

court judge to do with i'm on

10:58

the stand raise your hand or figured out one

11:00

way or another but again see let him slide

11:02

without having to say anything and

11:05

just said well maybe he declassify

11:07

them we have to find out and wouldn't be appropriate

11:09

that was the only sort of legal reasoning when

11:12

be appropriate to go forward

11:14

without hearing from a special master and our

11:16

stock gassing on to with one final

11:18

point which is yeah maybe the

11:20

worst violation of

11:22

separation of powers was he had an undisputed

11:25

affidavit it really explaining

11:28

why you cannot separate

11:30

out and to separate spheres the

11:33

national intelligence and the kremlin best

11:35

occasion but as i read the pregnancy

11:37

to said well they say it would be that but i

11:39

don't believe i can think the word for it it's

11:41

an undisputed family so

11:43

it was self i'm judicious and so

11:46

many ways i know i went over my

11:48

allotted time just a couple minutes ago but i

11:50

didn't practice criminal law the way parrying

11:53

jennifer how

11:55

i was always thought in litigation that have one

11:57

side submit evidence

11:59

the

11:59

hi did not

12:01

you have to find a favor of the side that actually submitted

12:03

haven't

12:04

it was a for the

12:06

david to search warrant and i don't

12:08

get it

12:09

how do you any how do you find

12:12

to the contrary when even is

12:14

no factual dispute it's just i was a sense

12:16

i'm sorry then we'll let poorly type it up

12:19

with overload on the three lawyers

12:21

and of i know

12:22

we can sit up about this is you

12:24

know wealth has no experience that's relevant

12:27

to designing this question george kennan

12:29

right is an inexperienced

12:31

judge

12:32

c

12:33

rejects an amicus brief from

12:36

former high level republican officials who

12:38

are trying to explain to her some

12:40

things about these matters

12:42

you will not let it i'm fine

12:43

was unhelpful which is as you all

12:45

know unheard of any you know judges

12:48

often ignore them but they rarely refuse

12:50

to accept them for filing so

12:52

she knows nothing about the she was never a high

12:55

level department of justice official we have no

12:57

reasonably she's ever worked with classified

12:59

documents and yet she feels within

13:02

her rights to say you know i

13:04

don't want to learn more about it i don't care

13:06

this is about the plaintiff the identity

13:09

of the plane as as she says very plainly in the last

13:11

couple of lines of quarter that's

13:14

it i don't trust the government and

13:16

i have been disputed fact that i'm gonna ignore

13:18

and that's how it's gonna be a

13:19

it's extraordinary

13:21

luke i want to ask you your thoughts about it but

13:23

i've like this add a thing a

13:25

you have the advantage of being the non lawyer

13:27

here you can see the three of us

13:29

in our heads are exploding and anyone

13:32

who believes in legal reason in the rule of

13:34

law or like foaming at the mouth

13:36

does it come through though do you think

13:38

the american people have any kind of

13:40

sense of this is way

13:43

way out there are that

13:45

the sort of thing the says to fine

13:47

grained for non lawyers to

13:49

really appreciate

13:51

what we did one story the times where i was

13:53

legal experts like sounding off on

13:56

a special master i think it was called like outrageous

13:58

or inexplicably there's some agree with the headline

14:01

was and i think that was the best read story

14:04

times for the whole week like everyone read

14:06

that story cause the at i think people were trying

14:08

to make sense of this thing like is she

14:10

being fair mind is he out there

14:12

but i think you're right most you're probably hearing special

14:14

master they're seeking something

14:16

but the documents they really want to know as

14:19

trump or to be charged or not the

14:21

think they could have some says the slows

14:23

that down right like this is standing

14:25

in the way of justice maybe that's i think

14:27

that's of probably is getting out to the public

14:30

that kind of my concern to was

14:32

the practical implications of it like i'm

14:34

on capitol hill most days

14:36

talking the senators and congresspeople and they're

14:38

saying like now he can't

14:40

get are classified briefing now we

14:42

can't get our damage assessment on

14:45

there were some believe at some point but she was going to let

14:47

them do them damage assessment but not

14:49

the f b i but the up the as part of the group

14:52

that does the damage assessments of didn't make didn't

14:54

make and the well they can

14:56

do that now and the classified briefings

14:58

been pushed off and so

15:01

i gonna do a question for the people who used

15:03

to be federal prosecutors how

15:06

much does this further investigation much

15:08

if you have to wait three weeks or three

15:10

months or whatever then you want

15:12

to start

15:13

yeah i mean look the initial order

15:15

was not clear at all this second

15:17

order she tries to clarify

15:20

the uses to which the government can put

15:22

the documents is effectively

15:24

as saying you can't actually hold

15:26

them and use them you can't take them into the grand

15:28

jury and read from them you can't

15:30

charge based on them by

15:33

you can still kind of know

15:35

what you know from having seen them and

15:37

proceed with your investigation so

15:40

it's still not entirely clear

15:42

i don't know that it damages

15:45

the investigation piece of it

15:47

so dramatically if ultimately

15:50

they get them within the time that

15:52

they would have needed to charge anyway but here's my

15:54

concern so she's overseeing the

15:56

special after she's appointed judges juri who

15:59

is best the more experienced

16:01

and i think now we can say conclusively

16:04

a vastly better judged than just canada's

16:06

split she's overseeing this process because she

16:08

appointed him so what happens when judge series

16:11

in a couple of weeks has review these hundred documents

16:13

has decided das these

16:15

arguments are going back to the government

16:18

they are not going to donald

16:20

trump and donald trump then runs

16:22

to judge canon and says no no this is

16:24

all wrong you know he made the wrong decision

16:27

you need to reverse this decision and give us

16:29

will we want which is to throw these documents

16:31

out of the case and then

16:33

what is judge can and do is

16:35

the o j going to feel that the eleventh circuit i

16:37

mean how much litigation are we getting in that than

16:39

a delay all of this well

16:41

beyond the period in which stood around

16:44

with with to make decisions and na

16:46

pali be done a police believed to be litigated

16:48

months and months and months and obviously

16:51

if they can't charge months and months

16:53

and months down the road till it goes up and down supreme

16:55

court ten times

16:56

that is obviously really damaging

16:59

the investigations that about

17:01

it's even worse because

17:03

she has again without any

17:06

reasoning continued

17:08

to open the more

17:10

than open door she has ordered him to review

17:13

documents for executive

17:16

rebel it

17:17

there's a masters don't do that they've

17:19

never done that but more

17:21

to the point there's no

17:24

law for a guy like dairy

17:26

to apply there actually is lie out

17:29

there that makes it clear that

17:31

he could never have possess

17:33

three interest in this because even if

17:35

there was some theoretical basis

17:38

because it's a criminal

17:40

investigation it's been settled

17:42

that it would give ground

17:44

but the eerie has

17:46

no way to call balls

17:48

and strikes on executive privilege documents

17:51

he'll take one and say you love parents

17:53

looks like executive privilege to me but then

17:55

the question that she's left open with

17:58

no legal standards think

18:00

about is what does he have some

18:02

right to this or not he'll make

18:04

a call trump will oppose

18:07

and then of what chances you know

18:09

goes up and down and there's a little orderly

18:11

know why they're so it's fanciful

18:13

to think that if this stays

18:16

it well be done by november

18:19

thirtieth it's a huge the

18:21

rail line of the whole case that dimension it's

18:24

true that he has some interest in

18:26

some of these ten thousand documents

18:29

than may be that affects the criminal

18:31

charge your investigation maybe it's

18:33

and not a crime what

18:35

about those they go to the eleventh circuit

18:38

that it's reversed

18:39

this was a special action under

18:41

rule forty one if they say she shouldn't

18:44

have acted and given him this extraordinarily

18:47

isn't that sort of the end of the rule forty one

18:49

motion aren't we back to normal with

18:51

judge reinhart or does she

18:53

still somehow or her

18:56

claws in the case forever and never

18:58

know i mean i think it would be the end of it i need

19:00

a different ways and

19:02

first of all

19:03

i read any of us

19:05

they go through the one hundred classified

19:07

documents and look at them

19:09

include

19:11

the documents are marked classified that's really

19:13

the only issue they're not necessarily

19:16

executive privilege because doesn't involve

19:18

some kind of discussion with aids is factual

19:20

information being provided not

19:23

necessarily by people in

19:25

the white house this is

19:27

hop kind of and cia and say

19:29

deal g we don't know exactly

19:32

but this isn't executive privilege sufficient

19:34

stop more classified it was the subject

19:36

to the subpoena and it was not produced

19:39

and if judge jury

19:41

is doing his job he should basically

19:44

saying to the justice department jimmy

19:46

that hundred dot the documents or he'll come

19:48

down to washington and look at them and

19:50

then immediately issue a

19:53

decision saying these document should be turned

19:55

over to the government a lack of mood

19:57

i'd heard

19:59

the

19:59

the department really is going to go to be eleventh circuit

20:02

today

20:03

stay application is an easy as

20:05

it easy grant yeah taken off

20:07

the whole special master that eleventh

20:10

circuit just issue to stay

20:12

that she declines that issue

20:14

last night and basically

20:16

that's the end of what really matters

20:18

although they'll continue in the regime but that's

20:21

right one thing about the skip though

20:23

when they go down to washington and dairy doesn't

20:26

guess who else is in the room trump's attorneys

20:28

having got in a security

20:30

clearance so that's at least sort of a months

20:33

up the works ban on no i don't

20:35

know what it how that option with the

20:37

the classified as classify it is

20:39

what it is so they get to see what is what

20:41

you

20:41

our and maybe even some

20:43

foreign visitors who worked their way down to

20:46

the storage

20:47

the making still investigate who was

20:49

in and out of storage room

20:51

there's a lot they can still do and you know the way

20:53

they could shop is down

20:54

i was has become so damn he was part of

20:56

speculation on what the hell trump was doing was

20:59

hussein die him in

21:01

the district of columbia i don't

21:04

see what business leaders of the us to support

21:06

for the southern district of florida yeah to do

21:08

any of this

21:09

the fact the matter is that gonna have

21:11

the diet

21:13

the

21:14

former a month maybe five weeks now since

21:16

the sir

21:17

the moral on august eighth day

21:18

have not articulated anything

21:21

close to illegal or five

21:22

sure defense to any of this

21:24

no

21:25

in you throw in there that this stuff is the most

21:27

sensitive stuff you could possibly imagine

21:30

you throw in the volume you throw

21:32

in the fact that he didn't give it up the first

21:34

time of voluntarily many didn't

21:37

give it up when he was subpoenaed and

21:39

then somebody lied on

21:41

his behalf about whether or not

21:43

all the stuff was there then they have witnessed

21:45

the paper saying that was more south with was

21:47

the best losers

21:49

i don't see how they don't prosecution

21:51

what are you also throw in the precedents

21:53

january six is a terrible event but

21:55

it's sui generis but it's

21:57

clear that anyone has come close to doing

21:59

what he did has been prosecuted

22:02

while i have a organized crime and religion

22:04

are diverted jennifer whatever works for it's basically

22:07

like yeah this rico investigation

22:09

investigate five family you

22:11

know you're trying to put together this massive week

22:13

of case dozens of murders and loan

22:15

sharking this and all the other stuff and

22:18

all of a sudden you get a call from the n y p d

22:20

they say hey we

22:23

just busted these guys lower you

22:25

of jewelry into a warehouse

22:27

outside kennedy airport and guess what

22:29

the toppled a couple was at the

22:31

wheel in helping love the stop it the

22:34

tv

22:35

a

22:38

t v know go back to the rico

22:40

case later with will be the january sixth place

22:42

in my metaphor

22:44

why would you take that case and go

22:46

the stolen property

22:48

the are be stolen property he lied about the

22:50

stolen proper

22:51

eight to say something easy

22:53

then you can always email complex

22:55

had a nickel and dime drop bus on stay close

22:58

wasn't going to get for palmer present united states

23:01

blue candy share george's

23:03

feeling that it's a easy and

23:05

be a sort of foregone conclusion

23:08

i definitely think it's significantly

23:10

easier than the january six case

23:12

when it came along it was like ooh there's a nice

23:15

clean much cleaner case

23:17

for them to bring much easier case for them to bring

23:19

factually and you know listen

23:21

if they were debating were to bring in between

23:25

dc in florida i think their decision

23:27

has been made for them i mean think they

23:29

don't want to go anywhere near the southern

23:31

district of florida at this point

23:33

so i also think that they

23:36

will at some point bring an indictment

23:38

and it will be added dc

23:40

keep you busy look i mean i think it was an easy

23:42

case to to charge right

23:44

the facts are the out there it seems very clear

23:47

that the mishandled classified

23:49

documents and other people have been charged

23:51

for doing much less would classified

23:53

documents the have a number of cases

23:56

of criminal prosecution isn't in

23:58

the past decade or so it

24:00

the question is will they and

24:03

though i'm not asking you to predict about the o j

24:05

i know spill but what about this notion

24:08

of documents storage

24:10

case as he just asserted yesterday

24:13

the country will go berserk

24:15

is it and one reason that people

24:18

are emphasizing the easy ness

24:21

and the fact that other people have been

24:23

charged in much less serious situations

24:25

is to say there be a strong public justification

24:28

rebutting any kind of accusation

24:31

it's all politics etc d

24:34

a see that would never be a

24:36

walk on the beach but does this case

24:38

feel what prosecutors

24:41

would call righteous and

24:43

does it feel like the kind of thing

24:45

that the public would accept

24:48

the justices going to do it i think they would

24:50

need to lay out how similar

24:53

it is to previous cases

24:56

everyone says the in trump's home got

24:58

raided it's unprecedented that's never happened before

25:00

for a president which is true but

25:02

as someone who came as a state and local

25:04

reporter yeah i've seen american

25:07

her house rated i've seen governors

25:10

homes be source or seen senators a

25:12

scene congress people but f

25:14

b i tix public corruption very seriously

25:17

and just because we

25:19

only have forty five presidents and none of them

25:21

ever did anything

25:23

that enough to warrant to search their

25:25

house report it shouldn't be that there's this

25:27

one guy who like is untouchable

25:29

right like if he does public corruption he'd seen

25:32

you can't search his house he can't charge and

25:34

it just seems

25:35

the an american doesn't it via overseas

25:38

and admittedly every other f b i public

25:40

corruption case right like every other one and

25:42

many times in these cases mattel

25:44

you guys a to get or know but still be a plea

25:46

deal where you can't run again are you have

25:48

to step down or there's actually a

25:50

political penalty we're having

25:52

broken some law happens the mayors and governors

25:55

senators and people like that absolutely

25:58

that's a really by the way interesting

25:59

the practice he's a liar

26:02

and who's gonna stop and he makes the deal any

26:04

real know that would be some pretty interesting

26:06

com lot attorney conway to everything

26:08

i read i've seen similar case like that the lower

26:10

levels so that it by the

26:12

end of it but of course

26:15

would a great division yes would

26:17

there be bear be bear of very angry

26:19

people yes so i think

26:21

of course the justice department is his way or

26:23

things when the sorry for the answer has

26:25

been a be the facts at

26:27

the end of the day it's the facts

26:30

it was that search for it he asked

26:32

for basically to be released a

26:34

search warrant application affidavit that

26:36

was the most devastating thing that happened to him

26:38

in this is gonna be the speaking indictment

26:40

to end all speaking indictments i'm

26:42

unifier drafting is thing

26:44

it's gonna be a long and guy is

26:47

going to be full of facts

26:49

you gotta lay it out you can't do

26:51

this concludes your concludes your be submitted

26:53

this a nice name the elements in defense not

26:56

you it's gonna be a long

26:58

long recitation and it's gonna contain

27:00

all the evidence and all the grand jury stuff

27:03

luke i want to move to the other broad

27:06

continents of possible trump

27:08

criminal liability january six so

27:10

we have the committee coming back

27:13

into session but there

27:15

was this week that kind of

27:17

suggestion from thompson that

27:19

whereas they've been arm's length to

27:21

date they will be sharing

27:24

things more readily with

27:26

the department of justice it's

27:28

, a little odd to me

27:30

you would think that each should want the other to succeed

27:33

what's been going on with the committee

27:36

that they've been wanting to withhold

27:38

the information they develop from develop from j

27:41

and what is prompting the

27:43

changed now if in fact there

27:45

is a change

27:46

oh yeah loving the latest thing and bennie

27:48

thompson has been kind all over the place on this

27:50

he says well in one day and then something else

27:52

the next i just talked to yesterday about this

27:55

and he said we're not going

27:57

to give them anything the job after

27:59

we're done dun dun in december

28:01

so funny report don't ever thinks that

28:03

the latest but he said now that that could change next

28:05

week by but as the latest that he said

28:08

and he had a number of reasons for

28:10

this one was the sort of

28:13

this was our work that their work

28:15

it was sort of very like classic washington

28:18

bureaucratic charitable allison's

28:20

i do think reading between the

28:22

tea leaves the thing that they're

28:24

concerned about almost like a journalist

28:27

or a book author is saving there's

28:29

groups like saving lives offices for

28:31

the hearings i get that kind of what i'm reading

28:33

between the lines whereas we

28:36

have to do one or two more hearings were

28:38

put out a report and we've gotten

28:40

great ratings they've got been a big

28:42

hit with the public and part

28:45

of that because we have revelations right of were just

28:47

tell him feel things they already know that's

28:49

less interesting and there's

28:51

a belief on the committee that if they give everything to justice

28:54

all the one thousand transcripts other evidence

28:56

materials or the text messages

28:58

and the like that eventually

29:00

those will have to be given to defense

29:02

attorneys hundreds of defense attorneys

29:05

and all these cases and that

29:07

is essentially like releasing a public place now

29:09

that kind of a selfish thing and doesn't sound

29:12

great for the committee because you think they want to be mind

29:14

up with justice several people

29:16

told me yesterday it's only gabi three more months

29:18

so they view it as like will also be reached the same

29:20

goal as them but we want to make

29:23

sure we can manage our material

29:25

through the process until we're done with

29:27

i remember to hear but of course as jen

29:30

will tell you the defendants will

29:32

not see these unless this exculpatory

29:34

information in there the defendants one see

29:36

them until their tried and there's actual

29:39

testimony at trial by the people who

29:41

are using them as gonna be a lot more than three months

29:43

are it back to the criminal side of things we

29:46

learned this week that mark meadows

29:49

has coughed up at least

29:51

what he gave to the january six committee

29:53

to d o j and that's

29:56

a lot of stuff i do want to ask

29:58

you jen whether you think there's

30:00

any serious prospect that

30:02

the department would give him immunity

30:06

i mean i was actually kind of surprised when i

30:08

saw the headlines and then read

30:10

the article that he's only given over what he gave

30:12

to the committee because a lot

30:14

that he withheld of course

30:16

is gonna give received a the committee i mean that

30:18

stuff out of the bag was the care about that

30:21

and there is some good stuff in there but

30:23

the better stuff i almost can

30:25

promise you is what he held back

30:27

under these questionable claims of

30:29

executive privilege umbrella so they

30:32

need to get at that stuff will

30:34

they give him immunity or make

30:36

him into a collaborator i yeah

30:38

they might i mean i

30:40

don't know that there's any single person

30:43

who is truly cooperative

30:45

would make up more effective witness because

30:47

he was just there at the critical times

30:49

that so is it worth it

30:52

to split someone like meadows against

30:54

trump yeah i think it is so

30:56

i think they would try to do that we'll

30:58

see what he does he seems to be a self

31:01

preserving kind of a guy so

31:04

if it comes to that's then

31:06

i think he would do it the question is are

31:08

they of course going to have enough on him

31:10

to compel him to flip

31:13

and that the know i don't think we know

31:15

yet

31:15

you want to roll under his attorney who

31:17

his first played would presumably be for

31:20

immunity and not you know

31:22

well or charge you and the different models

31:24

getting live reaches you know here's

31:26

your twenty year sentence and maybe even get it

31:28

way way down so

31:30

if i gives up or would not surprise me of

31:32

the subpoena that he got was very broad and

31:35

remember that the committee has certainly thing with justice

31:37

yet route they don't have first hand

31:39

that all the text message and stuff he gave them so

31:42

they had they had submission already

31:44

they may have to send that over smell had

31:46

given him all the same things what would prevent

31:48

justice and quarterback and say

31:50

what about

31:51

everything else it could be here's

31:53

another step there in the process weren't

31:55

any and if he said well that's executive privilege

31:58

when the committee didn't have the sort of

32:00

strength or time to

32:02

fight back to justice will say

32:05

ah us we says

32:07

nixon says you have to give it over and

32:09

is when wade see you in court and he loses

32:12

that it takes some time but

32:14

they're timeline is different

32:16

what are you in georgia about the most frightening

32:19

or in pauper tory witness

32:21

for the former president there is no metals

32:24

would be t and i am

32:26

i

32:27

would grant him immunity i'd make them queen

32:29

for a day at least to find out what to say tell

32:31

us what that is by the way i'll let you guys

32:34

telling the queen for and okay queen per day he gets

32:36

to come in and not be prosecuted

32:38

and make a proper yeah basically say if

32:40

i were to give you a to testify that is what i'm going to

32:42

tell you and something's going

32:44

on with this guy let's just take just take

32:46

back

32:48

the year ago

32:49

last summer he was a moral order

32:52

bragging about the fact it see

32:54

and

32:56

the cabinets the former cabinet

32:58

or members of the former cabinet and other

33:00

people associated with trump were

33:02

meeting to talk about fleet

33:04

he was bragging about he was in the thick of used

33:07

in the thick of

33:07

land and have the potential campaign

33:10

the here

33:12

the haven't heard anything

33:14

the with dark there was a thing down

33:16

here in d c were trump game

33:18

of his first each back in d c

33:21

is this like month or two ago that i was

33:23

was no

33:24

the be found

33:25

meadows is

33:27

we got we see that in the

33:29

evidence stories tall on one or

33:31

yeah i'll talk them out of it's the celanese

33:33

other people yeah we sarah woods you get

33:35

a staff writer i know you heavy blows

33:37

whichever way to win and

33:40

for that reason i agree jennifer i don't

33:42

think this guy wants to go to jail for donald

33:44

trump and whoever blows on him

33:46

hardest and last is gonna send him in the direction

33:48

he's gonna go and right now

33:50

i think the justice department can do that so

33:53

for all we know he didn't just

33:55

produce the stuff the

33:58

producer january the sixth

33:59

it actually to be produced a long time

34:02

york thrilled or would have no basis to resist

34:04

on that there

34:05

the want more going on here in a we know about

34:07

and

34:08

the ended his silence

34:10

the deafening honest

34:12

i really agree ellen one other thing he's

34:14

got a good lawyer and he is weak and

34:17

that lawyer tells them shut the hell

34:19

off and don't see trump any damn

34:21

like trump he'll follow because he

34:23

rises stay out of jail luther

34:25

let's close out here again back to the committee's

34:28

so it seems pretty certain

34:30

there's i searing comment on

34:32

the twenty eighth it's not

34:34

clear if they'll be a series

34:36

of them it's not clear if the committee knows

34:38

what are the our best current understanding

34:41

of what's coming both on

34:43

the twenty eighth and subsequent

34:46

curing

34:47

korea so they're actually meeting today he should

34:49

talk about this it's very much influx

34:51

a goal is to have the next hearing on the twenty eight

34:54

as you said i think initially

34:56

they had hoped to do a substantial

34:59

bit of that about cabinet level

35:01

conversations about invoking the twenty

35:03

two of them for medical strong but

35:05

as they brought in t ball tom teo

35:08

was not really forthcoming with them they

35:10

got a lot of resistance and i'm not sure they

35:12

got enough material out of those interviews

35:15

that last month to do a whole hearing about that

35:17

stemming only be a slimmer i think

35:19

they're going back to the drawing board intimate with other

35:21

ideas who to invite and

35:24

i've heard different names tossed around

35:26

they have not yet reached out any witnesses for

35:28

this hearing they typically do that

35:31

like that week beforehand

35:33

then if the person doesn't want to come in they'll hit

35:35

him with a subpoena to try to make and com

35:37

and

35:37

though

35:38

what we haven't heard anything from the blue

35:40

team investigation about cat yes thirty

35:43

they could do something on that if they wanted to

35:46

they've got a big submission from the secret service

35:48

just last week best supposedly

35:50

has radio talk recordings

35:52

of that they've microsoft teams

35:54

message as yes nervous so

35:56

it's possible that can be part of it but it's

35:58

really a flux right now and let me

35:59

if you will do the same yes you say

36:02

they've been blockbuster hearing successful

36:04

centers but you're really their day

36:06

to day how much into rock committees

36:08

friction do you sense

36:10

there is either jockeying

36:13

for the limelight

36:15

or real strategic disagreements

36:18

are they rowing the you know in the same

36:20

direction relative for government

36:22

of course or not so much

36:25

much more so than a normal committees

36:27

me say based there are some

36:29

disagreements about which subpoenas

36:31

to send which to be the topic

36:33

of the hearings should this be one hearing or to

36:36

hearing they do have a lot of stuff just

36:38

from the cutting room floor like they're hearing

36:40

on domestic stream as i'm

36:42

was initially five hours long and they cut

36:44

it down the to they could potentially just

36:46

use that for a hearing they have

36:48

raise the standard for themselves where they have to produce

36:51

blockbuster hearings right so if they just

36:53

do a here and a rehash as things we already know

36:56

no one wants to do that and so i do

36:58

think there are a little bit worried right now about this

37:00

year and not being the go to

37:02

some of the others because like yesterday

37:04

no one wanted to talk to sweat it out

37:07

of like through the war on the nurses are not today

37:09

though like today like think what they have they have

37:12

will be much much more eager to talk

37:14

but i get the sense there's a little bit

37:16

of anxiety about pulling this hearing off and

37:18

you're competing with the stolen documents

37:20

and best the guess which rain completely jawdropping

37:23

it's gonna be hard

37:24

the top what they already did and what's

37:27

happening in probably going to happen

37:30

there's been a more a log of documents investigation

37:32

so it might be just best for them

37:35

to just focus on putting go their final

37:37

report maybe one last year he if they

37:39

got some good stuff

37:40

they create a record for history it's gray

37:42

and we all know now whether there's a positive

37:44

effects or in part i don't know but

37:46

the justice department is basically

37:49

exploring every hang

37:50

terriers six them they are off

37:52

to the races yes not like a few

37:54

months ago right when you lie like a few months ago

37:56

where the january six three seem like a with

37:58

the game in town

37:59

the white in some ways look at disabuse

38:02

better going out as the same people the

38:04

committee's subpoena in the see out

38:06

and like they're they're very much fall on a road

38:08

map i mean if you're my cheney and chairman

38:11

thompson my think ill with basically

38:13

done our job

38:14

i'll say one more thing on that which is

38:17

december's gonna com mighty

38:19

fast they want to put out a

38:21

provisional report in

38:23

october it's closer to midnight

38:25

i think then many people perceive

38:33

it's time now for

38:34

our sidebar feature we're

38:36

going to replay one from way

38:38

back near the beginning of talking

38:41

feds because it's so germain

38:43

today it's on classified

38:46

materials and how they become

38:48

classified so obviously it's

38:50

an issue that is front and center

38:53

in the current moral law

38:55

go investigation and

38:58

broader brouhaha and

39:00

to read it i'm thrilled to welcome

39:02

sandra bernhard vander

39:05

bernard got her big break and nineteen eighty

39:07

three in the movie kings of comedy

39:10

which coincided with my big

39:12

break as a production assistant on

39:14

the same film meaning i got her

39:16

and others on the production which was

39:18

star studded coffee and drove

39:21

them around with she was very

39:23

kind and she actually hung

39:25

out some with the kids my

39:27

peers and me and i remember vividly

39:30

going to see her do stand up in the village

39:33

and also go in with her to the

39:35

famous fire department concert

39:37

at bonds of the class to

39:39

whom scorsese gave bit parts in the

39:41

movie as quote streets

39:44

come close quotes save you can

39:46

find them next time you watch king of comedy

39:48

which i highly recommend okay

39:51

since then our careers diverged to bed

39:53

as i became i became

39:55

and she became a world

39:58

famous comedian

39:59

in app

39:59

there is an musician well

40:02

known for roseanne hilarious

40:04

appearances on david letterman and

40:06

some fantastic one

40:08

woman shows like without to

40:11

i'm nothing though i give

40:13

you sandra bernhard on classified

40:16

materials

40:18

the restrictions on and penalties

40:20

for leaking classified material the

40:23

united states classified information

40:25

is information that a federal government agency

40:27

has designated from limited or restricted

40:30

dissemination because of it's potential to

40:32

harm national security or foreign relations

40:35

classification law exists and

40:37

statutes and agents

40:38

the regulations but the class

40:40

the kitchen system has since the

40:42

nineteen forties

40:43

been primarily a product of executive

40:46

orders president obama two

40:48

thousand and nine executive order thirteen

40:50

five to six which revoked

40:52

and replace prior classification

40:54

orders provides the current classification

40:57

framework the orders sets out three

40:59

levels of sensitivity top

41:01

secret secrets and sense

41:03

financial this division is based

41:05

on the expected degree of damage to

41:07

the security that an unauthorized

41:10

access without

41:12

many government employees and contractors

41:14

need access to classified information

41:16

to do their jobs government agencies

41:19

grandson security clearances to allow for

41:21

such access

41:22

example someone who

41:23

the top secret clearance in

41:26

lawfully access information

41:28

designated top secret secret

41:30

and confidential the government has

41:32

different ways to enforce [unk]

41:34

competition against restricted

41:36

dissemination of classified material

41:38

landing on the seriousness of the breach

41:41

at the least serious can impose disciplinary

41:43

action or revoke the security clearances

41:46

of employees who mishandle classified

41:48

information next several studies

41:50

and post civil fines or

41:53

other penalties for mishandling

41:55

are leaking classified information at

41:57

the most serious there are criminal penalties

41:59

for

41:59

the about whether or not they are government

42:01

employees who collect a leaked classified

42:04

information intentionally to harm national security

42:06

interests for example promoting

42:09

the success of military enemies the

42:11

most notable among them is the broad reaching

42:13

nineteen seventeen espionage act

42:16

prosecutors use the espionage act

42:18

to charge both edward snowden and

42:20

pentagon papers whistle blower daniel

42:22

ellsberg and several counts

42:25

and selsey manning's court martial charge

42:27

sheet incorporated the yeah

42:28

other criminal information security

42:31

laws

42:31

include the intelligence identities protection

42:34

act which imposes up to a sixteen

42:36

year prison term for the intentional leaking

42:38

of information

42:39

identifying a covert agents

42:41

that was

42:42

the prosecutors use the investigation

42:44

of the leaking a former cia

42:46

officer valerie plame identity

42:49

which led to the conviction of vice presidential

42:51

eight louis scooter libby

42:53

the lying to investigators and obstruction

42:55

of justice for talking sad

42:58

i'm sandra bernhard

43:01

thank you so much to sandra bernhard for

43:03

explaining that important concept

43:05

you'll be able to see sandra in the new

43:08

season of american horror story

43:10

which will be broadcast this

43:12

fall

43:20

all right

43:22

it is now time for a spirited

43:25

debate brought to you by our sponsor

43:27

total wine and more each

43:30

episode you'll be hearing an

43:32

expert talk about the pros

43:34

and cons of a particular issue

43:36

in the world of wine spirits

43:38

and beverages

43:40

figure

43:41

it a spirited debate we discuss adding

43:43

the right amount of water to glass of whiskey

43:46

without turning it into a whiskey river

43:48

the thought of adding water to any gone brown

43:50

whiskey might bring tears the eyes of

43:52

some whiskey drinkers

43:54

for others

43:55

adding a few drops of water dear glass has it's

43:57

merits and actually improves and

43:59

in here

43:59

the flavor

44:01

the phrase open up refers to

44:03

the release of the extra flavor you taste

44:05

by adding those jobs a water

44:07

here's a little bit of science that helps reinforce

44:09

that theory

44:10

when waters added to whiskey everly

44:12

says the glycol which is partially responsible

44:15

for the smoky and spicy flavor

44:17

when black holes released it rises to the

44:19

surface so the aromas are more easily

44:22

noticeable

44:22

allowing your palate to experience the smell

44:25

and flavor that impart on the jury

44:27

while there's really no right or wrong way

44:29

some say adding a splash of water brings out

44:32

the best and your glass of with

44:34

of course going overboard with the water

44:36

has diminishing returns watering down the

44:38

whiskey and proving once again that moderation

44:40

almost always win

44:42

the next time you're thirsty for a little experiment

44:44

in of your own stop and to your local total

44:47

wine and more for whiskey selection that suits

44:49

every budget

44:50

and that's a scientific fact

44:53

the find what you love and love what

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you find only a total wine and more

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the years

44:59

thanks to our friends at total wine

45:01

and more for today's a spirited

45:04

debate

45:05

i want to take a few minutes

45:07

away from donald trump if you guys

45:10

can stand it has to talk about

45:12

a refund a hood up for four

45:14

years versus

45:16

political development of the will on that

45:18

political policy sell the

45:21

post jobs landscape continues

45:23

to get i would say bleaker and bleaker for

45:25

women and doctors south

45:27

we had the first new abortion

45:29

ban since dogs took effect

45:31

in indiana and another coming in

45:34

west virginia when i wanted to talk

45:36

about this sunder

45:38

bought it seems to me within

45:40

the political world and the country

45:42

by lindsey graham oh introduced

45:45

a bill for a national fifteen

45:47

leaked abortion ban with some exceptions

45:50

but appear to take leadership by surprise

45:53

and expose these fault lines

45:55

fault lines geo p what

45:57

is calculation acting

45:59

obviously without the approval of leadership

46:02

what's he thinking of course is just doubled

46:04

down since then and is it's a

46:06

blunder they thought

46:09

well i'll started

46:11

lindsey graham famously one sad

46:13

it has main goal is to be

46:15

relevant and so i think critically

46:18

ill simple as warm as yourself is just

46:20

that like he saw sales for himself

46:22

to be in the limelight and target

46:25

susan b m for the organization

46:27

was shopping around this bill

46:29

they wanted a center to put it and they

46:32

believe that there were sort of an absence of

46:34

consensus in the republican position

46:36

and they wanted something they thought the party

46:38

could rally around and

46:40

mitch mcconnell has been like to touch this thing

46:42

don't talk about it and yes but lindsay

46:45

jumped in there and they're all

46:47

running away from it i mean a couple of i'm joined at

46:49

i think rubio and maybe a couple others

46:51

com signed on to the bill but most

46:53

of them are saying leave it up to the states don't

46:56

touch this bag like a screen as

46:58

a very much subs sticky

47:00

situation i'm on the republicans are on

47:02

the hill

47:03

when whatever happened to federalism here right a leaders

47:06

opinion was we return it to the people

47:08

and the people means lindsey graham

47:11

it is completely incomprehensible i

47:13

don't understand rationale

47:15

for it or the politics of it all one

47:18

a low points about row was created

47:20

fifty states

47:22

why

47:23

role of found every state

47:25

in an area that was traditionally subject

47:28

to regulation by the states family

47:30

matters medical licensing

47:33

all that kind of thing is just a union other fifty

47:35

states and in different states do

47:38

things in different ways and the

47:40

i'm the roadway was the was a massive

47:43

liberalisation wave politically

47:45

in the states or of abortions be legalized

47:48

in many places and road weirdly

47:51

of all of it's perverse affects us justice ginsburg

47:54

noted voice was the stop that dead

47:56

in it's tracks and one of the crazy

47:58

answer is always have was the

47:59

this was a matter with a second now they want to take

48:02

it away

48:03

politically i don't under

48:04

they're getting their asses

48:06

the politically in the polls because

48:08

all the sudden the dog off before

48:10

and now the people really

48:13

extreme legislation

48:15

in various states that turns off even

48:18

die hard republicans who thought the row was

48:20

too lenient and i

48:22

just don't understand the politics of ip would have made

48:24

more sense for lindsey graham's of proposing

48:27

fifteen weeks as weeks as and

48:29

basically cutting off bush rights

48:31

in places like new york and california in

48:33

everywhere in between doing the opposite

48:36

beta say at a minimum you get fifteen

48:38

weeks the have and washington you know

48:40

like basically what's level is in western

48:42

europe with a lot with various exceptions that

48:45

politically would have a much more sense republican

48:47

party

48:48

the even know again it's it's hypocritical rather

48:50

than a ceiling you meet yeah yeah a floor

48:52

of right rather than ceiling because it would expand

48:55

rights in some of these states were

48:57

it's become very controversial in and the republic

48:59

stand to lose trouble especially as

49:02

demographic changes curves in places like

49:04

texas that would logically

49:06

have made more sense although

49:08

it's still again inconsistent with a proposition

49:10

that the stations will it aside this and will what's the

49:13

constitutional basis for congress

49:15

a lazy been preserved is going to make the commerce

49:17

clause argument that this is a regulation interstate

49:19

commerce yeah what about that

49:21

n y u columbia law property

49:24

as you walk what do you see any basis

49:26

for federal power here oh god

49:28

i notice

49:29

nothing that's happened in the wake of thousand

49:32

the good for for any way

49:34

or i mean is is just an unmitigated

49:36

disaster me i look i've written at this

49:39

is designed to give republicans choices

49:41

right you can either be the state's rights

49:43

guy that's what you want to be in the

49:46

the lindsey graham national

49:48

ban guy if you wanna be for

49:50

your election you know whatever makes sense where you're

49:52

running in the midterms i don't know

49:54

whether that's an effective political strategy or not

49:56

i don't know thats what was behind it or not but

49:59

i mean i don't wouldn't if you have

50:01

a bill like that that relies on the commerce

50:03

clause and says that this is what

50:05

the federal government's doing and then that's challenge

50:08

me what is alito say about that he

50:10

just told us it was all up to the same

50:12

well say the nights when at one

50:14

very quick thing about lindsey graham no political

50:17

analyst or pundits but he just seems

50:20

to me to be eighty percent of the time

50:22

as least relatively thoughtful and then

50:24

he has this like mr hyde mean

50:27

this as he seems almost artificially

50:29

to kick into gear and

50:32

it's become the snarling guy

50:34

think of the cavanaugh earrings and this is

50:36

mean lindsay all right

50:38

we are out of time except for one

50:40

minute for our final talking

50:42

five feature where we take a question

50:45

from a listener in each of us has to answer in

50:47

five words or fewer and

50:49

today's question is so

50:52

michael in dallas my pillow

50:54

has been broadening his product line it's not

50:57

just pill us anymore as branched out

50:59

into socks and sheets and

51:01

slippers what should

51:03

his next new product be

51:05

five words or fewer please

51:07

get

51:09

my orange jumpsuit say

51:12

most comfortable orange jumpsuit

51:14

ever me a further

51:15

i'm gonna go in a different direction with my

51:18

voting machine manipulation

51:19

where it apply words apply

51:22

words up with

51:24

mushroom and swiss burgers all

51:26

hard a surfer and all heart is

51:28

a set of skills my thunder to because i'm going

51:30

with my all polyester

51:33

zero calorie hamburger

51:38

all right we are unfortunately out

51:40

of time thank you so much

51:43

to loot george and jan and

51:45

thank you very much listeners for tuning

51:47

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thanks for tuning in and don't worry

53:39

as long as you need answers

53:42

feds will keep talking

53:44

talking feds is produced by olivia henriksen

53:47

the and engineering by matt mcardle

53:50

rosie done griffin and david lieberman

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our lieberman our writers production

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emma mean or thanks ,

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much to the great sandra bernhard

54:05

for explaining classified

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gratitude as always to

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the amazing philip glass

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who graciously lets us uses us

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talking feds is the production of deleted

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l l c and harry lindeman

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talk to you later