0:04

Hello, Michael, What's

0:06

up, buddy? I can't believe this.

0:08

I mean, this was the next to last episode.

0:12

It's the next to last episode, you know, on the Sopranos, usually the next to last episode was always the shocker.

0:17

Is that going to happen here?

0:20

Who knows where we're talking to superfans today from everywhere and from all over the world, real super fans.

0:29

I mean, we had such success the first time around with some great superfans that we thought we'll try it again.

0:36

You know, and People

0:39

wrote in and said, every Fan,

0:41

every fan is getting a signed book and getting a Bose headphones for them Association

0:50

about great fans.

0:52

Speaking of the book, if you haven't heard by now, Stephen, I wrote a book called woke up this morning.

0:58

It is the definitive oral history of the Sopranos.

1:00

It is now a New York times bestselling book, The

1:05

bestseller inch of bestseller Instant

1:07

bestseller. The holidays are here. This is the perfect gift for a soprano fan.

1:11

It's packed with pictures.

1:12

It's packed with stories, interviews with the cast and crew lots, which didn't make it to the podcast.

1:18

This really is the final word on television's greatest show.

1:22

There's signed copies available, go online.

1:24

You know, it's available, wherever books are sold and we're very proud of it.

1:29

We think we think it's all And

1:32

a great gift. And also if you want to see our live shows, we get we're in Staten island.

1:37

The only New York city appearance on February 12th, we're at the St.

1:42

George theater. Then we're in Winnipeg on March 5th, March 12th, we're outside of Toronto casino, Rama and may 28.

1:53

We're in Waterloo, New York, the Del Lago resort.

1:58

It's a few. Thank you.

2:00

So Willy boy wants to say, thank you, Michael.

2:03

He wants to say, thank you for you for all.

2:07

He knows you love him.

2:08

He's ready for the holiday season.

2:10

And he just wants to say sale it on for Michael I

2:14

Willie, you look great. You look really good.

2:17

He looks great.

2:21

He looks good. He loves the camera.

2:23

He loves the camera. Yeah, he's very comfortable in front of the camera.

2:26

Yeah, his family we're in a lot of commercials.

2:29

He comes from a showbiz family, really from Santa Clarita, California.

2:33

That's his hometown, Michael and Amy, and say hello to uncle Andy, the drunk uncle.

2:41

And these are drunk. He drinks a lot of eggnog.

2:44

Okay. That's it.

2:45

I

2:45

want

2:45

to

2:45

thank

2:45

our

2:45

co-author

2:45

Phil

2:45

Lurman

2:45

who

2:45

wrote

2:45

the

2:45

book

2:45

with

2:54

us? He did a fantastic job.

2:55

He's a wonderful guy.

2:57

He worked so hard as we did.

3:01

And this was his first New York times bestseller.

3:04

And I want to thank .

3:06

I want to thank Valerie bough, Valerie

3:10

bow. She's A

3:13

business manager slash attorney.

3:14

And of course the great Roger Haber, always Tony Sirico calls the Meyer Lansky, Which

3:23

is our lawyer, lawyer, Man.

3:26

He takes care of business, Brooklyn city market down in Laguna.

3:30

If you need, if you're from New York and you need a know back east, you need a fix.

3:34

You know, like you need a pizza, fix a real pizza fix no pizza hut like a real one, Brooklyn shitty market.

3:42

And of course our attorney Mike, the Hitman Harriet, who is listening to every podcast and he's our agent, he's our agent.

3:49

I'm sorry. Our agent, a literary agent.

3:52

We're fully O a literary agency.

3:56

And Mike has been, you know, a lot of agents, they make the deal and then you never hear from them again.

4:01

They collect their commission, not with Mike.

4:04

He's been with us every step of the way.

4:06

He's a good man.

4:07

My carrier.

4:09

Thank you, Mike.

4:11

All right, we're ready for super fans.

4:13

Michael, Let's

4:15

go bring them On. Let's go.

4:17

We got our first guy up.

4:18

He's from Miami, Florida.

4:21

He created the very popular and well done Sopranos autopsy, a website that breaks down every episode of the Sopranos.

4:31

And he just recently finished his final episode.

4:35

Let's say hello to Ron Bernard out of Miami, Florida.

4:40

Oh, Ryan, how you doing?

4:44

Good. How are you guys? Thanks For doing this.

4:46

So let me ask you, so for the people out there that don't know, tell us what exactly is Sopranos autopsy, how long you've been working on it and why you started it.

5:01

I started it. You guys can probably relay with a podcast.

5:05

I was trying to find some way to make myself more miserable, you know, try to find a way to complicate my life for no reason.

5:13

I started about six, seven years ago, you know, cause I felt like there wasn't this type of analysis for the show.

5:21

So I just wanted to fill up that space.

5:24

You know, the Soprano's to me is like high art and low art at the same time.

5:30

It's like, you know, are very high caliber and popular entertainment at the same time.

5:35

So I was trying to match that tone with my, with my website.

5:40

You wanted the first guys to do it, right?

5:44

I believe, I believe I, I was, yeah.

5:48

You also, I think one of the best guys who've done it because I I've seen a lot of the posts and a lot of the, a lot of the chapters and you're just super, super smart and you're super insightful.

6:00

Sometimes

6:00

I'll

6:00

go

6:00

on

6:00

and

6:00

I'll

6:04

see. There's certain things that we have in common that we've dug out of the show, but you kind of even go beyond into places that I can't even wrap my head around.

6:13

You're a little bit above my, my, my intelligence level.

6:18

You're very smart and it's really, it's really well done and really thought out.

6:22

And I think you've, you've done a great thing for the, for the fans.

6:27

Appreciate that. Appreciate that.

6:29

How long does it take you to break down one episode?

6:32

I usually once I start like start to finish maybe six weeks, but the final episode with that, I mean, I chip at it, you know, I don't sit down cause I've got other stuff to do, but yeah, six to eight weeks.

6:47

Wow. Yeah. The final episode, final episode, which I just put up like a couple of days ago, it took me almost four months.

6:56

It's funny. Cause we just did, did it yesterday.

6:59

Really?

6:59

You

6:59

know,

6:59

it's

6:59

not

6:59

released

6:59

yet,

6:59

but

6:59

it

6:59

was

6:59

interesting

6:59

going

6:59

to

6:59

look

6:59

at

6:59

that,

6:59

that

6:59

last

6:59

episode

6:59

took

6:59

me

6:59

the

6:59

longest

6:59

out

6:59

of

6:59

all

6:59

the

6:59

ones

6:59

we

6:59

broke

6:59

down

6:59

and

6:59

I,

6:59

I

6:59

took

6:59

the

6:59

most

6:59

notes

6:59

on

6:59

it

6:59

just

6:59

because

6:59

it's,

6:59

it's

6:59

very

6:59

resonant

6:59

and

6:59

there's

6:59

a

6:59

lot

6:59

of

6:59

things,

6:59

a

6:59

lot

6:59

of

6:59

things

6:59

that

6:59

play

6:59

in

6:59

a

6:59

lot

6:59

of

7:17

themes.

7:17

I

7:17

want

7:17

to

7:17

ask

7:17

you,

7:17

what's

7:17

your

7:17

favorite

7:21

episode? That's a tough one.

7:23

But if I had to answer, I would say Kennedy and Heidi starts out pretty, you know, kind of conventionally in the sense that there's a mob death.

7:32

Chrissy dies early in the episode, but then we go on this wild ride and it ends up with Tony on payoti having this kind of other worldly vision out in a Nevada desert, you know, and the ride that it takes us on to get us there is, you know, plus all the visuals.

7:52

I mean, it just looks so different from the other episodes.

7:54

The, I love the, the score, you know, there's a Lucinda Williams songs.

7:59

There's two pretender songs.

8:01

There's a Calexico song at the end.

8:03

It just looks and sounds different.

8:06

Yeah. It's pretty special.

8:09

Can I ask you what you do for a living Right

8:13

now? I'm working as a property manager.

8:16

So this is a hobby.

8:18

Yeah, pretty much A hobby for the most part.

8:21

I Mean,

8:21

I of think like property managers, the hobby, but this is like what I really want to do.

8:29

Have you been involved in film, television, creative writing literature, have you been a teacher?

8:34

Have you done any of those Dottie that stuff?

8:37

Did you have a degree in that?

8:39

Well, I have a liberal arts degree, so I kind of touched upon a lot of those things.

8:43

And in college I had started out as an architecture major, but I switched to liberal liberal arts.

8:52

I've also noticed that, you know, similar to kind of what I've dealt with, not so much on the pockets, but on Instagram and social media, you've had moments where you've sparred with a few fans, some, some, some getting pretty below the belt, not on your part and their part.

9:07

And you know, you've, you know, bringing up certain political things and, and some, some which come out of the show and that you address.

9:15

And you've had to do some sparring along the way, which I found interesting.

9:19

And your handling of it. It always very classy.

9:23

Thank you. I've seen it on your Instagram too.

9:25

And I love your sort of minimalist approach to dealing with these people.

9:29

You know, it's something I got to learn from.

9:34

I don't know. I think you did pretty well.

9:36

Hey Ron, how are you going to do any other shows?

9:38

I mean, do you plan on breaking down any other shows or it was just Sopranos or nothing?

9:45

Are you guys planning on doing a podcast for another?

9:49

We're going to do a rewatch of the rewatch talking, talking Sopranos.

9:53

We're going to break down our, So

9:57

people have suggested that they want to do a autopsy autopsy.

10:02

There you go.

10:02

Have

10:02

you

10:02

done

10:02

a

10:05

podcast?

10:07

No, I've been approached, but you know, it's a lot more work than people realize.

10:12

Have you done, you've been a guest on podcasts though, right?

10:15

Besides this I,

10:17

I did one. I think you were on it also part of that.

10:21

Yeah, I did put a bang. That was very, I was a lot of fun.

10:23

I enjoyed that a lot. I mean, I love the show of course, but I I've actually only watched the show five times, like front to back and a big part of that is just working on the website.

10:33

But there are people out there who've seen the show like 20 times, 25 times, three times a year.

10:41

That's pretty, that's, that's a big commitment, isn't it?

10:45

Yeah. Hey Ron, do you listen to our podcasts?

10:49

Oh, absolutely. You know, you know the reason why I listened to it mainly because I have this feeling in a couple of years, I'm going to wake up one morning and I'm, let's see this headline, Michael Imperioli murder by Steve Sherpa or, or vice versa.

11:10

It says thing before we get to that.

11:12

So it's, it's gonna end.

11:16

What Do you think happened at the, at the final episode?

11:20

I think it's ambiguous. You know, that, that was my initial reaction.

11:23

That was like the feeling I felt in my gut.

11:26

I mean, of course the first thought was my cable went out.

11:28

But as soon as the credit star roller, I thought that's a perfect ending.

11:34

It's a beautiful ending. And it's an ambiguous Sunday, you know, I don't know if that's what chase meant, but that's what I felt.

11:41

You ever thought of turning your website into a book maybe.

11:46

Yeah. It's not possible. It's just, you know, in manuscript form, it comes out to 15 pages.

11:53

I would have to get all kinds of permissions from, you know, I, I have quotes from like hundreds of people I'd have to get permission from all the publishers, you know, plus I rely a lot on like video clips and animations and videos and little screenshots and stuff.

12:09

So there's no way I could put all of that in front of me Too

12:13

big of an undertaking.

12:15

Yeah. It's not really worth it.

12:20

Well, I'll tell you, the people love what you do.

12:22

And I I've, I've looked at your website when I knew you were coming on and you're very thorough and you're very, very smart guy.

12:33

You know, I, I was, I was worried that you were going to tell me my website's love to F terror, too many esoteric theories on that.

12:40

Well, listen, it probably is.

12:41

I'm busy talking about Milton.

12:43

Berle's cock. I'm not, I can't, That's

12:48

why, that's what he said. It's high art and low art, But

12:51

it's very well done. Listen, I may not agree with you with everything, but I am not a dumb guy.

13:02

I can see how intelligent and how much work goes into it.

13:06

Just like, you know, you don't like this kind of music.

13:09

That doesn't mean they're not good musicians.

13:12

Right. But also for the record, I don't actually believe in a lot of the theories that I'm posting up.

13:18

You know, I, I'm kind of with you there, you know, I'm just posting it just for the sake of discussion of conversation.

13:24

Yeah, exactly.

13:26

Well, it, you know, even talking to David, right?

13:29

There's certain specific things that like we asked him about there's that theory about ran and being a rat to books, you know, and that, and he's just like, no, that's not there at all.

13:39

But the show is so kind of juicy and complex that it lends itself to those things.

13:48

That's, what's cool about it. That, that inspires those flights of fancy just because it's so, you know, it's, it's just so unique and special and, and thoughtful that that's the key to it.

14:01

It doesn't really matter if it's intentional, you know what I mean?

14:06

But the only thing is this right guys.

14:07

I mean, it's become so much like every single thing means something which is wrong.

14:15

And now we've had David on three times and I've asked him above me and age about eight in the final episode, pony is carrying.

14:26

When they go back into the house, after they're in the safe house, the family he's carrying a canned ham in his left hand.

14:36

Really? I didn't even notice that He's

14:38

got a suitcase in one hand and a kid hand.

14:41

And it means absolutely fucking nothing.

14:44

That's not true. That's not true, Steve.

14:46

It doesn't mean it's, you know, it's, you know, it's not cut and dry.

14:51

He wrote in the script or setting the tone meeting, he's got a cat.

14:56

No, but he said, Tony's got to carry a ham.

14:58

He's not saying so art doesn't have to be like, I'm putting in this, this in here because it means this, That

15:06

Michael. I know, but it is coming from a specific choice in a place from the artist himself and his consciousness.

15:14

The artist conscious is so attuned to this world and this material.

15:18

This is not a random thing.

15:21

No, I'm not saying it's random at all.

15:23

Just like a, guy's eating fig Newtons in the car, but somebody takes it three steps further.

15:29

All the hand means that Tony's or ham and he's a pig and he's a, you know what I'm saying?

15:35

That's what I'm talking. That's The beauty of it.

15:37

Yeah. Not to me.

15:39

And it's not the beauty to me, but No,

15:42

no people go over board with it. For sure.

15:44

And I did, my final write-up was super detailed.

15:48

I pulled it, all these kinds of things, but it was really not because I actually believe this, but just to make the point that anyone can go through the series, go through the episode with a fine tooth comb and pull out whatever they want to reach the conclusion that they were already inclined to reach.

16:05

Anyway, you know, we all see what we want to see.

16:08

We pull out whatever evidence that we want to fill out.

16:11

Isn't that what Melfi says?

16:12

Didn't she say something like that at one point painful people's Yeah,

16:20

it's true. And it's not, you know, of course it's not just stupid Sopranos.

16:23

I mean, it's true every minute of the day.

16:26

All the time. Yeah. What is your favorite quote from the show?

16:29

Do you have one?

16:31

Oh, my favorite quote, you know, I, what I really love is, I don't know if this qualifies as a quote, but I was laughing for like five minutes.

16:41

It's already bucco. When he learned that meadow was going to be an attorney and he does this little thing with his hand Constitutional

16:48

law. Yeah, Exactly.

16:51

Yeah. Nobody does that. Like John and Vince, Amelia, those, those, the physically the, you know, he's a very physically gifted to, Well,

17:00

Ron, thank you very much, man. It was a pleasure having you on honestly.

17:06

And he brought The good work.

17:07

You're a good man. Thanks.

17:10

Thanks Becky.

17:10

Have

17:10

a

17:10

good

17:13

holiday.

17:21

If you haven't checked it out yet, please do.

17:23

And

17:23

he

17:23

does

17:23

not

17:23

talk

17:23

about

17:23

anyone's

17:23

cock

17:23

on

17:23

his

17:23

Sopranos

17:32

autopsy. He's an intelligent guy.

17:34

He's not an imbecile like me.

17:35

Know what I mean?

17:37

He's an intelligent man.

17:40

Listen, we, you know, we, we, this, this podcast is very wide reaching broad.

17:49

We covered, we've covered a lot of ground, a lot of All

17:53

right, we're going to take a break and come back with some more guests.

17:58

This podcast is sponsored by better help online therapy.

18:01

We talk about better help an awful lot on this show.

18:04

You know, they've been loyal. They've been with us right from the beginning and this month, we're also discussing some of the stigmas around mental health, for example, okay.

18:14

Some people think you should wait until things are unbearable.

18:18

Before you go to a therapist before you try therapy, that is not true.

18:23

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18:29

Some people think therapies for so-called crazy people, but therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with you.

18:36

It means you recognize that all humans have emotion and we need to learn to control them.

18:42

Not avoid them. Now this podcast is almost at its end.

18:47

You're not going to hear Steve and I talking about better help once this show ends.

18:52

So if you've heard us speak about it and you're curious, and you think it might be for you now is the time to give it a shot.

19:00

You know, you may forget about it when we go off the air and we're not here to remind you.

19:04

So I strongly encourage you to do what a lot of our fans have done with great success and great benefit.

19:11

If you're thinking about it, you think it might be right for you.

19:14

Get in touch with better help.

19:16

Yeah, listen, we, we know that it works.

19:18

They

19:18

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experts

19:18

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and

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if

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you

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don't

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like,

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you

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therapist

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whatever

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19:18

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20:53

Okay. Our next guest is super fan Irene.

20:57

Rogachefsky from Toronto, Canada.

20:59

She is a special education teacher.

21:02

Please welcome Irina.

21:05

How are you? I'm

21:07

wonderful. How are you doing? Terrific.

21:08

Thanks for joining us. So it says you started watching the Sopranos at 16 years old.

21:13

You, the Sopranos is in every fabric of your body.

21:18

You've seen the entire series at least seven times.

21:22

It's more than us.

21:23

And

21:23

because

21:23

of

21:23

the

21:23

Sopranos

21:23

you

21:23

dress

21:23

in

21:23

leather

21:23

pants,

21:23

suits

21:23

big

21:23

bold

21:23

gold

21:31

jewelry. And you're blessed Tony Bennett music.

21:34

Yes.

21:34

And

21:36

I guess that's why you consider yourself a super fan.

21:39

All right. Absolutely.

21:40

In so much more.

21:43

So what would you tell someone that has never seen the show?

21:47

What would you tell them?

21:49

I think I would tell them that it's the best show that has ever been on TV ever.

21:55

That it is the catalyst for TV shows that came after it.

21:59

That if you enjoy a great plot line, a complex plot line, amazing acting, humor, everything, that's the show to watch.

22:09

And you kind of, you know, if you want to be immersed into a whole different world that maybe I'm assuming most people aren't familiar with, but can still somehow relate to that would be the show.

22:21

What's your, what's your favorite episode?

22:26

So I've been since, you know, having this opportunity to speak to you guys, I've thought about it a lot, for sure.

22:32

It's the one where Jen is kills Richie.

22:35

A lot of people I've I know have said this, but I think it's that, that scene, of course, it's beautifully done from the moment she does it to the moment that Tony's telling her that he buried him up on the hill, overlooking, you know, surrounded by time.

22:50

But I feel that even the dialogue in the beginning, all the little stuff, like, for example, he's with in the, in the beginning of the show, in the beginning of the episode, and she's like, well, chicken soup for the soul chicken soup for the soul.

23:09

And he's, you know, tomato sauce for the ass.

23:12

You should drink it or something like that. Like, it's all brilliant.

23:14

And then when Richie Richie's having the talk with, there was Jackie junior and they were talking about, you know, there've been business venture and Richie turns to him and says, oh, he just told you to fuck off.

23:28

And he told me to go fuck myself. Like it's all the dialogue.

23:31

Everything is just brilliant.

23:33

The acting in every scene is brilliant.

23:35

The ending with the song, Hey, Hey, I saved the world today.

23:39

Like I realized that the whole episode is just Tony thinking.

23:44

He's fixing everything. He's fixing everybody, Janice and Richie and everybody and Carmela.

23:50

And it's just brilliant.

23:52

And then I guess the other, like, it's like picking a child.

23:55

I don't have children, but I'm assuming it's like picking a child, but the episodes where they are purchasing white caps, the beach house also.

24:02

Brilliant. Yeah. We liked that one. Also.

24:04

What character do you think you're most like of all the characters guys or girl on the show?

24:11

Which one do you think is more like you?

24:14

Oh, wow.

24:14

That's

24:14

a

24:14

hard

24:19

one. Probably.

24:20

I'm

24:20

a

24:20

mix

24:20

of

24:20

poly

24:20

because

24:20

I'm

24:20

a

24:20

bit,

24:20

I

24:20

just

24:20

say

24:20

what's

24:20

on

24:20

my

24:29

mind. Let me see you do poorly.

24:31

Can you do a, the impression?

24:32

Let

24:32

me

24:35

see.

24:41

He does this a lot, right?

24:43

Yeah, he does. That's good.

24:44

So you're a little bit of Paulie cause you're out.

24:48

You had no filter your outspoken.

24:50

Yes. And I'm also a little bit of Adriana.

24:52

I believe in the goodness of people.

24:56

I think that's my biggest takeaway from her character is that she's so she believed in the love she had with Christopher.

25:01

She believed there could overcome him thinking she's a snitch or knowing she's a snitch, she's a rat.

25:08

And I'm unfortunately like that.

25:11

And no more, I'm putting my foot down.

25:13

I'm not going to be like that anymore. But I feel like also her like ambition to want to do something meaningful with her life and her, her, her optimism, her, you know, how she, how she loves how she's very passionate about relationships and the, the people in their life.

25:30

So a little bit of Pauli, a little bit of Adriana, but also a little bit of everybody because I kind of grew up everybody.

25:35

I'm not like Ralphie though.

25:39

Okay. Gotcha. That's good. I'm glad to hear that.

25:43

Let me ask you that. I read, can you, would you be able to date someone that didn't like the Sopranos?

25:52

I, I probably wouldn't be like, I feel like Sopranos fans have an aura and the men that I tend to go towards are a little bit more edgy.

26:01

That might be my downfall.

26:03

I don't know. Looking forward, maybe, you know, I'll meet somebody that's a little less edgy, but like still kind of answers to my, you know, my, my wants and needs.

26:12

But I like, if somebody wasn't like, you know, if, if a guy was to say, oh, I wasn't really into it.

26:19

I'd be like, no. Okay. Maybe you'll give it another try.

26:21

No, maybe it doesn't suit you right now, maybe later.

26:23

But if somebody was like, I don't like it at all, that might be a problem.

26:28

Do you, do you have any questions for us?

26:32

Absolutely. So I know that James Gandolfini had some prob like I would call it maybe like, I don't know, issues prolonging from like playing that character because it was so far from who he was and the show has many dark themes.

26:49

So, and you guys also like obviously played characters with a lot of issues and I don't want to pry too much, but how did it, how did playing those characters?

26:58

You Michael, for example, with the, you know, Christopher was very addicted to drugs and et cetera, how did it impact you?

27:06

Both in a negative and a positive way and you're acting, what do you do to tap into somebody like that?

27:12

Like, I'm very interested in acting and I'm going to, so I'm going to start classes soon, but I would really like to know, like how do you tap into something so dark and how does it affect you in on both spectrums?

27:24

I think, you know, for me tapping into the darkness, the dark side of characters and humanity is a good way of, you know, kind of letting out, letting out the dark edges of your own personality.

27:39

You know what I mean? It's kind of like a safe, a safe vessel or a safe place to just kind of let it all out.

27:48

You know what I mean? Often in life we can't just let out dark emotions, difficult emotions because of situations.

27:56

And because we don't want to get in trouble, we don't want to hurt people or offend people.

28:00

And acting kind of allows is a place it's almost therapeutic.

28:03

Sometimes, you know, you can let outrage, you know, in a, in an imaginary place that nobody's going to get offended or hurt you you've went out rage against me on this podcast.

28:14

Well, this podcast is, I know that's, that's part of the show and you know, I'll be honest.

28:24

I think Jim, I think it was the time commitment more than the character that affected him, but he was working nine months every year, every day, most of the time, 14, 15, 16 hours a day.

28:37

He had no personal life. He didn't hardly spend time with his family.

28:41

And I think that was harder for him than actually the role.

28:45

I think the role was, you know, I think the role he actually enjoyed, I know, you know, sometimes it got a little clues close to home, he felt towards the end, but a lot of Jim's pressure was working so much.

28:58

I understand it makes sense. That makes sense.

29:00

Cause I did see some pieces about like, you know, maybe the, the scene where I believe it's you and him after the, the, the situation with Adriana, but that was like a extremely hard scene.

29:11

And I was just wondering, You

29:14

know, it's a hard scene cause you have to get, the stakes are so high and you want to do a good job.

29:17

But I think it's, it's also for an actor for me to be able to go to the, the, the beautiful thing about that character is he, Christopher had such a range of emotions and things to play.

29:28

And that's gold for an actor when, you know, play all the states of mind and states of being because he's, you know, cause he's under the influence of drugs, you find out your girlfriends, you know, you're a monster and your girlfriend's been talking to the Fed's life as you knew it is now over.

29:42

Whatever's going to happen from here on, in is going to be different.

29:44

Everything has just been shattered.

29:46

The stakes don't get higher.

29:48

That's gold for an actor.

29:50

Amazing. Amazing. Okay.

29:52

Well thank you. So next question would be probably what was your most challenging scene to perform whether emotionally or it was like too funny, maybe some sort of like, you know, behind the scenes kind of tidbit, something that you just couldn't get through that you, you know, that, that you really, really sticks out in your mind For

30:15

me. I, you know, I I'm too serious when I'm on set.

30:18

I don't have time for that.

30:20

Yeah. I don't have time to screw around and play around.

30:22

I'm kind of serious about what I do.

30:25

I mean, a lot of times the simple scene is a hard scene.

30:28

It was, there was a scene with me and Janice, when we talked about eating the ZD and we were in the kitchen together, Karen ZD.

30:38

And that was a hard scene, you know, emotionally, you know, to get there.

30:43

That, that was kind of hard. It, wasn't not, everything's so easy.

30:46

That'd be good to turn the page. You learn your lines.

30:49

Everything's so easy.

30:50

You know, that was kind of hard.

30:53

And, and I eat this a great actress and it took us a little while to figure it out and we got it.

30:59

It turned out great, but that was a little hard and emotional scenes are always kind of hard for me.

31:05

Yeah. When I'm on the set, I I'm too worried or worried or concentrating.

31:09

I not much fucking around with me.

31:14

That's impressive. Now on this podcast, I fuck around, Well,

31:20

that's what makes this podcast so wonderful.

31:22

Like honestly, the dynamic between you guys is amazing.

31:24

Like

31:24

it's

31:24

a

31:24

treat

31:24

for

31:27

us. I don't know if I believe it, but I've heard that many.

31:31

Thank you very much. We love Toronto and thank you for coming on.

31:35

Have a nice holiday.

31:36

Couldn't thank you.

31:39

Thank you very much.

31:40

You take care. Thanks a lot now.

31:43

Okay. Let's let's see.

31:46

I like talking Irene.

31:49

Okay. Our next guest is from Niagara falls.

31:53

His name is Paolo .

31:56

He created the YouTube channel Sopranos theories.

32:00

Sopranos theories has over 3 million views and 30,000 subscribers.

32:05

He is a soprano superfan, obviously.

32:08

Please welcome.

32:10

.

32:13

Hello.

32:13

How

32:13

are

32:13

you

32:13

doing

32:17

buddy? I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys?

32:19

Thanks for coming on you in Niagara falls, cam the Canadian side or the New York side.

32:26

Ah, the Canadian side.

32:27

Oh, nice. Nice.

32:28

Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it a lot.

32:31

Now. Why don't you start Sopranos theories?

32:37

Well, I was just bored in Quarantine

32:38

and that was watching movies, you know, every night I was watching north by Northwest and vertigo and I would watch like essays or videos on YouTube about it after the movie.

32:50

And then I was looking at it and I was like, I can do this.

32:54

And I was like, you know, why don't I make it about something I love and something that's near and dear to my heart and something that I'm passionate about and that being the Sopranos and yeah.

33:04

And then, you know, I went to school for, you know, broadcasting, radio, television, and film, and I studied film at university.

33:10

So I was like, I know what I'm doing.

33:13

I know how to record and do all that stuff.

33:15

Edit. And here we are, 30,000 subscribers later.

33:20

Great. How many videos have you made?

33:25

I think I've made around 35 videos.

33:28

Some of them are shorter ones, but there are, I would say probably 30 videos.

33:35

Okay. And do you, you don't break it down by episode.

33:37

You just have a specific theory that you investigate in a certain video.

33:41

Yeah, I do like some theories and I do some breakdowns of episodes.

33:45

Like why pine barons is so beloved and I just recently uploaded a video that was detailing.

33:52

What could possibly be the worst episode of a series if there even is, and a worst episode of this series.

33:58

But I, I do some theories, nothing like AAS that we all, Yeah, no ASMR stuff As

34:15

a woman. Steve doesn't want me to talk about it, but as, as a woman though, I'm

34:19

not 25 years old. Oh, so You

34:21

just, when did you first watch?

34:24

I started watching it in high school.

34:25

So I was 1516 and you know, growing up Italian, obviously you're sort of forced to watch like the classic Italian mafia movies and I love them Goodfellas casino, Bronx tale.

34:40

So I was sort of itching for more of the mafia genre and my mom recommended the Sopranos and we would go to our local video store and I have them on DVD and I started watching them in, in high school.

34:55

And then the rest is history.

34:56

I'm sure you've all heard it. It was such an amazing show.

34:59

I was just blown away by everything.

35:02

I had no idea what I was getting myself into, you know, from a cinematic level and how it impacted my life.

35:09

Tell us about some of the, you know, what some of your favorite theories that you have Favorite

35:14

theories, Most

35:18

interesting things that really like, whoa, blew your mind and made you want to make a video about, Well,

35:23

I haven't made a video about this one yet, but the fact that the Russ for goalie could potentially be poly walnuts, his father.

35:31

And then I also really, really love, you know, I haven't made a deal about it either, but the ending, you know, everyone loves the ending, you know, is it Eugene that wanted him dead?

35:45

You know, members only jacket of course.

35:48

Right. Is it New York? All that stuff.

35:52

Is that a theory at that? Eugene?

35:54

Oh Yeah.

35:55

Oh yeah. I didn't know that She

35:59

said members only had so many clues in it.

36:01

That's what she, you know, one of the, one of our other guests was taught.

36:04

Men mentioned that episode, connecting members, only Eugene and the guy in the last episode, who's in the diner.

36:11

Yeah. So that's like Eugene's brother or something.

36:13

I don't understand.

36:14

Well, how'd you gene?

36:16

He's been dead for years.

36:20

And the first episode, you know, we see it's called members only of season six and we see Eugene wearing that jacket as veto calls him out on it.

36:30

But then we see the same jacket that gentlemen wearing in the last episode.

36:34

And you know, Eugene also killed someone in that jacket.

36:38

So I guess you could, you know, you can, you could connect the dots there there's a lot there.

36:45

And what do you think about the, the Rhea nine theory that she set the whole death scene up at Holsteins?

36:53

Do you know about that one?

36:55

A Jay's girlfriend?

36:58

Yeah. I actually have heard about that.

37:00

I watched a video about that too.

37:01

I don't, I don't believe that one.

37:05

What's the evidence for that one? Diff you know, why, why would they think just she's there when they say we're going to Holsteins?

37:11

Why are they connecting her to ratting them out?

37:14

You know, riding out to New York?

37:16

Well, when Carmela tells Ajo, we're going to Holsteins tonight and she, his girlfriend, she looks up at like, not up, cause they're on the couch, but she looks like behind and almost like peaks her interest.

37:29

So a lot of fans are speculating and you know, really getting that There's

37:35

no avenue active tissue that she has anything to do with New York.

37:40

No, no, I don't. I don't, I don't believe that.

37:42

That sounds like an ASMR theory.

37:43

No Paolo.

37:47

Are you making a living at this?

37:52

It's generating some money. Yeah.

37:55

Yeah. Thank you so much.

37:56

It

37:56

is

37:56

actually,

37:56

you

37:56

know,

37:56

just

37:56

me

37:56

recording

37:56

here,

37:56

sitting

37:56

in

37:56

my

37:56

room,

37:56

reading

37:56

my,

37:56

my

37:56

S

37:56

I

37:56

basically

37:56

write

37:56

an

37:56

essay

37:56

for

37:56

every

37:56

video

37:56

and,

37:56

you

37:56

know,

37:56

it

37:56

generates

37:56

some

37:56

money,

37:56

which

37:56

is

37:56

awesome,

37:56

which

37:56

is,

37:56

which

37:56

was

38:10

great. Especially during quarantine.

38:12

Good for you. That's great. What's what, what theory that do you think is true that we may abroad?

38:20

Do you listen to the Podcast?

38:21

Every episode?

38:25

What theory that we've talked about that you think is true that you agree or disagree with us?

38:32

Well, I agree that Adriana was in a regular around the margins.

38:36

My favorite episode, she was possibly thinking about, you know, getting with Tony to use information.

38:43

You know, I actually rewatched it last night and you can tell him like her body language at the club, you know, she's sort of thinking, oh, I didn't get Chrissy cell.

38:55

Right.

38:57

I think she would've slept with Tony. I think so.

39:00

Oh yeah. And Tony, Tony wouldn't have, you know, said, no, Absolutely

39:04

no, no, no, no, no.

39:06

Well, he even goes into Melfi and talks about his wife.

39:12

Right. I was what'd you say I was right that time.

39:16

I know Tony says, Tony says, you know, do it right this time.

39:19

We could start over and start a family.

39:21

Exactly. And so you just do you, it's just you all alone.

39:27

So you just come up with the conspiracy theories, you hear about it on the internet, or it's just your theories, your conspiracy theories.

39:36

Well, it is like my thoughts and opinion.

39:38

I'm I'm also in like, you know, Reddit groups, Facebook groups, and just always chatting about the Sopranos mean, I mean, I love it.

39:48

Right. So I take a little bit information, you know, from here and there.

39:52

I always, I'm always reading, you know, I have some books and yeah.

39:57

Some university sources. And then, And

40:00

what other shows do you like? Is there any other shows you like, Well,

40:04

it shows do I like just the Sopranos.

40:06

Really?

40:08

What, what do you think of the ending of Sopranos?

40:13

Sadly. I think he's, he's dead.

40:14

Everyone's favorite. Anti-hero he's he's gone.

40:17

Yeah. It's all very, if you, if you look at a people need to Be

40:22

alive so Bad. Me too.

40:24

Yeah. Well, like the episode opens with him lying in bed and he's got that pillow there and we hear Oregon music and it almost looks like a coffin and A

40:32

hundred percent like He's

40:34

dead right already. Yeah.

40:37

Yeah. He's alive.

40:39

Now. You said We just broke down the final episode yesterday.

40:43

I'll be honest with you.

40:44

And you know, I always thought he was dead, you know, and then watching it yesterday, I was like, well, it seems like the heat is really off him at the time because New York just won most of New York, except for Phil wanted to get back to business because the money wasn't flowing, they just want to make money.

41:05

They don't really give a shit about these personal vendettas.

41:07

Phil was the opposite and they got rid of Phil.

41:10

So who wanted him dead, you know?

41:15

And also the members only guy it's like that doesn't mean I hit, man.

41:19

Wouldn't do that. I hit, man's not going to walk in a place where he's going to do a shooting, sit at the fucking counter, you know, where everybody could see him strapped to the bathroom.

41:28

He's not going to go get a weapon in the bathroom.

41:30

That's the godfather because Michael knew he was getting frisked.

41:33

They had to hide the weapon.

41:35

This guy would walk in with a weapon.

41:37

There's no reason for him to have.

41:39

Can you think, boom, boom, Tony.

41:41

That's right. Yeah.

41:43

Like you're probably thinking it's very similar to how that dinner was Silvio With

41:49

Sylvia. They just come in bang, bang, bang.

41:53

They kill Bobby the same way. Same Way

41:55

they weren't in there browsing for cabooses.

41:59

Yeah. I got that. He's at the counter. You know, I can see that.

42:01

Yeah. Looking around, you know, That's

42:04

it. But I agree. You know, it looks like he's in a coffin that organ music You're

42:09

lying. You probably don't even hear what happens.

42:12

Then he's looking, you know, he's not looking at the door for metal.

42:15

He's looking at the guy coming out of the bathroom.

42:17

I mean, I want to believe it.

42:19

I'm going to say Tony's alive because that's what I want.

42:23

But I, I see things here.

42:27

I can't see it. I know it's like, I want, I want them to be alive so bad, but I dunno.

42:32

It's just the Bobby line. You probably don't even hear it when it happens, you know, Silvio.

42:35

He didn't hear the shots until after the shots were fired.

42:38

And like, you know, just like when Silvio didn't hear anything, Tony doesn't hear anything when he looks up.

42:45

Right. So Do you have any talking Sopranos, conspiracy theories?

42:51

No. No. Do you have any questions?

42:55

I do. Yeah. I have a few here. If we got some time recently, you guys have been talking about, you know, they would kill everyone, Carmella AIJ metal at that ending scene.

43:05

If you, if she's still alive, Carmella, what do you think happened to her?

43:09

Did she remarry? Did she go with, you know, cause we saw her have a few little things here and there throughout the series, Vic and Musso Furio and then Mr.

43:19

Waggler. So we think she remarried if she's still alive or I

43:24

think, I think Carmela needs to be kept, you know, she, you know, even as much as she wanted to do her own thing, I think she needs that big house.

43:33

She needs the money.

43:34

You know, we know that she had a wandering eye, not to say that she shouldn't have had, but she did.

43:42

We had the priest, we had the Joe penny character, right.

43:47

The construction guy we had Furio we had the teacher that's for, you know, maybe, I don't know.

43:54

Did she contact Furio if Tony died?

43:58

Yeah. So Tony said that certain people, if certain people find him, he's a dead man.

44:04

I don't know about that one.

44:05

I think that, you know, the, the mafia back in Italy, he said, oh, whatever, Tony, this, this New Jersey guy wants him dead.

44:15

Cool. But it never happened. Yeah. If he was making them money, they'd probably say, no, don't worry about it.

44:20

Yeah. She probably would be with so much, see she sees, she seems like someone who probably would go on the niche, she's still kind of, you know, relatively young, good looking know.

44:31

I'm sure she could find a nice guy.

44:33

I have a feeling she wouldn't remarry and probably not a wise guy.

44:37

You know, some people in that life, some people in that life, women who are married, you know, they stay in that community.

44:44

You know, they, I've known a couple of people who, you know, they were in relationships and exclusively.

44:50

I think a guy either died.

44:53

You know, she was with another mob guy and they stay in that world.

44:56

That's the world. They know they're comfortable in, but I think Carmela probably wouldn't would not have Really

45:03

Well. She wasn't going to go with poli.

45:04

Ooh, No,

45:06

that's not. I mean, I couldn't even imagine a guy in the group that would make sense to her.

45:13

You know what I mean? I think she could probably go for someone.

45:16

Like I, I agree with you there, you know, outside teacher, professor, a doctor, you know, I did, she would try to take her.

45:25

She was a social climate too.

45:27

I think she would take that step up.

45:29

Yeah. I agree. What else you got?

45:33

You know, if, if the New Jersey crew, the glorified crew is still assembled, who do we think is running it?

45:39

Cause everyone's pretty much dead.

45:40

Patsy

45:40

and

45:43

Polly. Thank you. Patsy and Pauly were, you know, basically the only guys still alive, you know, Dante Greco, Walden, Benny, or do we think New Jersey, New York just took it.

45:55

Good question. Really good question.

45:59

Paulie. Obvious. He didn't want the responsibility.

46:00

He doesn't want to rise up.

46:02

You know, I don't think he has the mental capacity.

46:04

He doesn't have The mental capacity and Patsy doesn't seem like a take charge, kind of run the world kind of guy.

46:11

So, and the young guys just don't seem like they have that as well.

46:17

There's a good chance. It might've gotten, you know, folded into the New York family.

46:22

That's a good If

46:24

they killed, if they killed Tony, I would say it probably did.

46:27

If Tony Says

46:28

it, right. You know what, the capitate and we deal with what's left.

46:33

Right. And we know that, we know that the, the Jersey guys were given money to New York.

46:41

They were given envelopes to New York already.

46:43

They had made that Alliance. You know, If

46:46

Silvio came out of the coma, maybe although when he was boss, he didn't really wasn't able to handle it very well, but maybe this would be a little bit different.

46:54

I don't know.

46:57

Oh yeah. Who wants it? As, I think Tony said nowadays, who wants the job?

47:01

Who wants The pressure? Yeah. The potential Without

47:05

a doubt.

47:08

One last one. It was very, obviously it's very difficult to play these mafiosos, these murderers.

47:13

So how did you prepare to play these, these characters?

47:16

Did you use any inspiration to find your way into the role?

47:20

I mean, I know Michael was on, you know, good fellows and then a witness to the mob.

47:25

So, you know, maybe that helped a little bit, I would say, well, I

47:29

I've done a few mob things. And I had done a lot of research, especially into the New York mob, a lot historical stuff.

47:35

And you know, going way back to the beginning and also the more current mob.

47:41

But for me, it was, I found somebody in real life that I knew who grew up in New York.

47:47

Who's he had a cousin who was in the mob and his cousin brought him in.

47:53

When this guy I knew was relatively young in his early twenties and had him do a few jobs that were very dangerous jobs.

48:02

And one of them went bad and he got really freaked out and left New York and tried to be an actor.

48:10

And emotionally was very much like Christopher.

48:13

So that, that was some something I thought about a lot when we did the pilot.

48:18

And then it kind of took on its own momentum and its own life.

48:22

When we got into the first season, I didn't really think about that anymore, but it did help me, you know, set, set this character emotion, if you will.

48:33

You know, I grew up around that, you know, I kinda grew up around guys like Bobby and I grew up in Bensonhurst at the time was a big mafia.

48:40

A lot of guys that I knew, you know, guys, I grew up with friends of fathers of my friends.

48:48

So I kinda knew that world a little bit.

48:50

I was living in Las Vegas. I've seen those guys around.

48:53

So yeah. Well,

48:55

Y you bring up Las Vegas quickly.

48:57

I just want to say, you know, I'm, you might have to double check with Andy, but I'm pretty sure I submitted an AMA question of the week asking you guys to reopen the contest because I missed the first one.

49:08

I was so devastated and the night I went to Vegas for Halloween, my friends and you know, the night before I was like, I'm not getting on that plane until I submit this email because I know I can, you know, I deserve to be on, not that anyone else doesn't, but I, I know I'm a super fan.

49:23

I got pictures here and I got trading cards.

49:27

I mean, I have this one here.

49:29

I don't know if you can see it, but it's dual assigned by Michael and fury or a Federico.

49:36

I

49:36

don't

49:39

know. I dunno.

49:41

It's just crazy. Of course I have, you know, the book I have t-shirts, you know, Moltisanti here a diehard fan.

49:50

Yeah. I just want to say thank you so much.

49:52

And it was real nice talking to you. You have a nice Christmas and thank you very much.

49:57

The good word. Thank you so much. You as well, I'm very grateful that you put me on this podcast.

50:03

You don't have 3000 applications and very thankful and grateful and you know, keep up the great work.

50:09

Thank you so much.

50:13

You too. Thank you.

50:16

That is Paolo. So Tila from Niagara falls.

50:19

Nice. That's a nice young man. Very smart, man.

50:22

Alright, let's take a break and then we'll come back with some more guests Talking.

50:29

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All right. I'll mix superfan and cookie di Pietro.

57:12

She's originally from Brooklyn now in wax whore, South Carolina.

57:17

She's watched a show more than 12 times and has been a super fan since 1999.

57:25

She's a top earner on the talking Sopranos Facebook fan page.

57:29

What is that a top earner? I Have no idea It's

57:32

explained to us. So let's, let's talk.

57:34

The cookie di Pietro Has

57:37

this great. Fantastic. Okay.

57:39

Then I should have taken you up on that.

57:41

I should have been meditating. It would've helped me out.

57:45

I'm jumping, I'm jumping out of my skin. I'm just so excited to be speaking to you and Steve, and just to be in this whole situation, Listen,

57:56

uncle Steve. It's not exciting at all.

58:01

There's nothing to be excited about.

58:07

Excited Talking to you.

58:11

Listen. After 20 something years, I don't know.

58:14

I feel like I know you guys. So this is like meeting my old friends and speaking to them in person.

58:20

It's just crazy.

58:22

Tell me what does it mean? It says you're a top earner on the talking Sopranos Facebook fan page.

58:26

What does that mean? Top earner, Top

58:30

burner. I, I, you know, I'm always posted on the, I'm not an administrator, but I'm always posting and because I have so much, I guess, knowledge, you know, being with the Sopranos all these years, that, you know, a lot of people ask questions, you know, and then, you know, I kind of say, well, you know, I kind of give them hints.

58:48

Well, this is, you know, I tell them this, like the hat, like what's this what's that, there's a lot of people that say, you know, Tony lived, it didn't die.

58:58

That's a big thing on the, on the fan page.

59:02

So Cookie web part of Brooklyn are you from Bensonhurst?

59:08

And my aunt lived on bay, 19th street and we used to go there and we, you know, we used to go there and we used to go to the sink and fill up our glasses of water.

59:18

Cause we always would flip out that when you took the water from the force, that it would be like cloudy.

59:23

And then a few minutes later, the water would be like clear.

59:26

We thought it was like magic.

59:27

And just, you know, I worked in Brooklyn, I worked at a couple of more places in Brooklyn.

59:33

I worked at the golden gate.

59:36

Oh, the gate is many times.

59:39

That's a famous place. Where what'd you do there?

59:41

The front desk, I

59:43

was a server. I was a server as I've been in the restaurant business, like my whole life.

59:48

And at one point I worked as a mob guys would come in and this and that.

59:54

And I'm you I'm full.

59:56

They have no work at another place, easy street.

59:58

And I worked at another, you know, just being around it my whole life.

1:00:02

Yeah. Yeah. Now let me explain to Michael.

1:00:04

The golden gate is, was, was in Sheepshead bay and it was a short stay hotel.

1:00:11

So they had a lounge downstairs.

1:00:14

A lot of guys would take their go modest, you know, cause there wasn't many hotels in Brooklyn for a long time.

1:00:21

There was no new hotels. So the golden gate was a place you could rent it for four hours, five hours like that, you know, you could rent the place you go in there for a quickie.

1:00:32

And it was, you know, that kind of hotel.

1:00:34

It's perfect. I'm sorry. It was split. It was like once I was the restaurant and that music and then the other side was the bar.

1:00:41

So it was a tote. It was totally set up for that situation.

1:00:46

Yeah. The golden gate in this place, if you're from Brooklyn in the sixties and seventies, you know all about it now, now cookie why'd you love the show so much.

1:01:00

Why? Well, I wanted to say that everything on that show okay.

1:01:05

Is really true, except for like, you know, like in my family, at least, because I saw all, so many people on the show where pieces of my family and people that I was around my whole life and on the talking Sopranos, like some people ask questions.

1:01:23

What does this mean? But some people aren't Italian or do some of the old customs, like, you know, like somebody had asked me, just said they were wearing like, like why, why was Tony so mad about wearing like a baseball cap?

1:01:35

Well, when I was growing up, we were not allowed to wear a hat in the house that was like, not allowed, especially at the dinner table.

1:01:43

You know what I mean? It would get like smacked off your head.

1:01:47

The restaurant.

1:01:49

Yeah. Is there any good Italian food down there in South Carolina?

1:01:54

Not

1:01:57

much. Oh my God. And moved down here. I want to go.

1:01:59

I want to go to Disney. I want to work.

1:02:01

I want to go to Florida. So

1:02:02

cookie, what, who's your favorite character on the show?

1:02:07

Let's see. Well, I love them all. I love Tony.

1:02:10

I love Johnny sack. I guess the funniest is to me is besides June is Marty.

1:02:17

Bucco was a lot of things that happened in his restaurant and his mannerisms.

1:02:22

It reminds you of myself and things that really did happen in the restaurant business about people stealing and this and that.

1:02:29

It really did, you know, really was real.

1:02:32

I wouldn't have to take my say my mother.

1:02:35

Oh Boy. Did you have a favorite episode?

1:02:39

Yes, I do. I got my mugs.

1:02:41

I got my books.

1:02:44

What's your favorite episode?

1:02:47

Well, one of my favorite, well, I love them all, but my, one of my favorite ones is, is six one a members only because I think it has so many clues.

1:02:56

It has so many clues to it.

1:02:58

You know, if you really watch and pay attention, it's, you know, there's one thing that I was gonna mention too, which I don't, no one has ever mentioned this about when Eugene goes to the FBI, when he pulls up and he goes to the FBI, there's a wall so much, I'm watching it.

1:03:16

Like, I don't know, two months ago something.

1:03:19

And then watching the episode and I'm looking at it.

1:03:21

I'm like, are those, is that a war?

1:03:24

Those snakes. And, and, and when I stopped the, the TV, the, the wall is two snakes.

1:03:33

And then the, on the, on the, it says dead end is a dead end sign.

1:03:37

So that flipped me out because all the times I've watched it, which is at least 10 or 12 times.

1:03:43

At least I never picked up on that.

1:03:46

So as you watch it, there's always something you can pick up on.

1:03:49

That's why on the fan page, people, like they say things that they don't know what they're talking about.

1:03:54

You have to watch it over and over.

1:03:56

That's why he goes on and on and on, because you can watch it every day and find something else.

1:04:03

And what do you think those snakes mean?

1:04:07

Well, I think, I think you, Eugene was a snake.

1:04:10

And then another thing is when a, is when a Eugene gets a call in the bedroom and the wife says his master's voice, this is flipped back to his master's voice.

1:04:21

I thought it was originally, I thought it was Tony and I just hadn't Googled it like a couple of weeks ago.

1:04:27

And what it was was his message. His voice was the gramophone from like RCA.

1:04:32

It was The

1:04:36

ground. Oh my God. That's like crazy.

1:04:38

That really? And then when, and then when Eugene Hayes himself, then he's like standing on like the speak he's standing on the speaker.

1:04:48

So he hangs himself. And then this, then after he hang himself, the front of the speaker falls down, like it's exposed.

1:04:55

Like maybe like he like represent.

1:04:57

Maybe he was, he was, you know, speaking like the FBI, like You

1:05:03

go deep, you go deep.

1:05:05

I don't go that deep into the political part of it.

1:05:08

But all that stuff was just so amazing.

1:05:13

Cookie, do you have any questions for us?

1:05:15

I

1:05:18

do. Well, I'll tell you about the question. So every week I sent in about a dozen questions about the podcast and at the end, when I didn't get, I was like slapping my leg.

1:05:28

I'd be like, given the TV, the finger.

1:05:31

Cause I really wanted to get those photos and then happily on with you guys.

1:05:36

And I got the ultimate gift, which is, I

1:05:41

remember your name, Michael kept saying no, no, no.

1:05:45

And I was saying, no, let's have cookie on.

1:05:48

I don't believe please.

1:05:51

So what's the question.

1:05:57

What's the question In

1:05:59

front of my phone for 45 minutes.

1:06:01

I got, Wow.

1:06:08

All right.

1:06:09

So

1:06:09

I'm

1:06:16

sorry. I'm just having a great time.

1:06:18

I have like, like 10 pages of notes.

1:06:21

Well, we just need one question. Not 10 pages.

1:06:25

Oh, damn. It's okay.

1:06:27

Okay. So how did you both feel after the show ended?

1:06:33

You know where you're relieved, but where you're saying, I don't mean immediately, but I mean like a month or two, like I

1:06:40

felt both I was ready to move on, you know, because it was a long stretch in our life.

1:06:46

And, and I I'm someone who likes moving on, you know, I don't, I don't like dwelling in the past.

1:06:51

I like moving on to new things at the same time.

1:06:55

I was sad because it was the best job I ever had.

1:06:58

And it was, you know, very fun.

1:07:00

And I loved the people I worked with, you know, more than anything.

1:07:04

I was gonna miss being with them every day. But you know, everything in life has its period.

1:07:08

You know what I mean? And its season.

1:07:10

So that's how I felt, You

1:07:13

know, to be honest, I would have stayed, you know, I thought the show had another couple of years left in it.

1:07:20

I honestly did. I thought they could have brought in some more actors.

1:07:25

And I thought the audience still was there, which obviously they were because we are 15 years later.

1:07:36

Right. I was a little concerned about, is this shift for me?

1:07:40

It was I not going to maybe work again, you know, Hey, this was a great ride.

1:07:45

You know, it was, you know, 2007 I had started 1999 was just ended.

1:07:51

The dance is that it was Vegas.

1:07:55

And you know, so I was a little concerned in that way.

1:08:00

Of course, Mr. Show. But I was a little concerned that I wasn't going to work.

1:08:04

And luckily I haven't stopped working, but yeah.

1:08:07

Did you guys take a break after like, did you like chill out for a while?

1:08:11

Going

1:08:11

get

1:08:11

back

1:08:11

into

1:08:11

something

1:08:11

else

1:08:11

to,

1:08:17

I don't chill out that much.

1:08:20

We did the movie not long after Michael.

1:08:22

We did Michael's movie. Yeah.

1:08:24

Yeah. I went, we stayed busy.

1:08:26

What do you think of the ending? What happened at the end of the show?

1:08:31

He

1:08:34

died. He died, actually.

1:08:37

I, I really don't want, didn't want that to happen to him.

1:08:39

But the thing is, I don't think he would've felt bad if he went to jail.

1:08:43

I don't think he would have been been a jail person.

1:08:46

I don't think he would've did good in jail. I think he was just, he was miserable at the end.

1:08:51

Anyway. I mean, put him out of his misery. You know, you, you know, you still would happen to him at the, you know, when Jerry got shot and you saw what really was going to happen to Tony chase, I feel gave you all that, you know, would not, you don't, you know, like Bobby was saying, you don't hear it when it happens.

1:09:15

And then when sill was spattered with blood after Jerry got shot.

1:09:21

And then when, when sill was in the hospital in a coma and on the TV, you sort of a little girl screaming to me that was metal metal's reaction when she walked into whole sins and sees how father get shot.

1:09:37

Cookie Woodmark question, other questions.

1:09:42

Okay. Okay. Do you think you could watch the show?

1:09:47

Not, not, not after the, after the talking Sopranos and after they go on to a, do you think that when things come down with the Sopranos, you can ever watch the show as a viewer, like sit back and just watch it, not, you know, not, not taking notes and not look back.

1:10:05

Do you think you can watch it? Like we watch it Maybe,

1:10:08

maybe years from now? I don't know.

1:10:12

Yeah. I don't think I can ever do that. Just because it was such a big part of my life and our lives.

1:10:17

It's hard, you know, it was different watching it cause we didn't watch the show since it aired.

1:10:24

So watching it for the podcast was very different because there was time and you have a little bit more objectivity.

1:10:31

You're not wrapped up in it. It's not your world, you know, immediately.

1:10:35

So you have a little bit more distance. And I enjoyed it a lot as a viewer, but I still have a very personal connection to it Between

1:10:44

that and the book, you know, it was a little work in between that, but I don't know.

1:10:50

It'll be a long time if I ever watch it again.

1:10:54

Yeah. Well it's wonderful that we have all these young people watching it now.

1:10:59

It's like amazing.

1:11:01

Like I said, it's just amazing.

1:11:03

I mean, these young kids is somebody they posted on the fan page like that.

1:11:08

They went to Tony's house and hoses. I'm like, I looked at the picture of his kidneys, like 20 years old or something.

1:11:15

It's amazing. It just goes on and on.

1:11:18

That's why like with the, you know, your park is what you're doing.

1:11:21

I mean, they can refer to it. It's just so it's just soprano world is actually soprano world.

1:11:27

Yeah. Cookie DPH. Thank you.

1:11:30

Have a nice Christmas. Thanks for coming on the show.

1:11:33

Great talking to him.

1:11:35

Thank you. Merry Christmas.

1:11:38

Merry

1:11:38

Christmas

1:11:38

and

1:11:38

cookie

1:11:38

di

1:11:38

Pietro

1:11:38

from

1:11:38

Steve's

1:11:38

neck

1:11:38

of

1:11:38

the

1:11:46

woods. Bensonhurst. She

1:11:48

was great. It was great talking to her.

1:11:52

All right, Michael, we're going to bring on our next guest.

1:11:55

Billy Noble from Nashville, Tennessee.

1:11:58

I remember you extremely drunk in Nashville, Tennessee On

1:12:04

many occasion. Yeah.

1:12:06

Wow. Wow.

1:12:09

Yeah. Yeah. I got the limo driver And

1:12:12

you were yelling at the limo driver. You're yelling at the manager of the club.

1:12:16

You are, you. I had that night.

1:12:18

I had to watch out for you.

1:12:19

You, You went off the rails.

1:12:22

I was not a good drunk. I'm not a good drunk For

1:12:25

the most part you are. But there was a moment where you went.

1:12:30

That was where that click when I clicked it just over the notch and then it's Okay.

1:12:35

Okay. Okay. And then, oh, but Hey, this guy, Billy Nobel is a keyboard player in Tim McGraw's band and he's a super fan.

1:12:44

So let's bring on Billy Noble.

1:12:49

Hello? Hey, What's up guys?

1:12:51

How are you, Man?

1:12:53

Everything's good. Thanks for doing this.

1:12:56

Thank you for having me. Are you in Nashville?

1:12:59

I'm in Nashville. Yeah.

1:13:01

Nice. Where are you guys? Are we already in New York fitting Oak City

1:13:05

Or

1:13:05

you

1:13:08

Know, no, we're never in the same. We can't be in the, we tried that.

1:13:11

It doesn't work. They had a separate, it's like dogs in a pound, you know, dog crap.

1:13:18

You have our separate cage.

1:13:21

We can no longer be in the same room together.

1:13:24

Billy. That's what let's stop bullshit.

1:13:26

The people we can't be in the same room together, Going

1:13:29

to happen.

1:13:31

You you, so your keyboard playing in Tim McGraw's band.

1:13:36

Yes. And how long have you done that?

1:13:39

I've been doing that since 2012.

1:13:41

So next year will be my 10th.

1:13:46

Yours or you and another band before that?

1:13:51

Not at his level. I did some other touring gigs and just kind of hustling and bar bands and, and playing around town.

1:14:05

But his gig was like kind of a big Hit

1:14:10

to major league. Well, but you could make a living as a bar band, right?

1:14:14

You go. And cause I, I did a thing years ago for the tonight show.

1:14:18

I was a correspondent and I interviewed at the CMA awards.

1:14:22

I interviewed Tim McGraw and his wife.

1:14:26

I don't think she liked me that much, but he, he was up for having some fun, but she kind of gave me a dirty look, I thought, but you could go in the bed.

1:14:36

Right. You go in the honky tonks and then you pass the hat per se.

1:14:41

Right. You can make, you can make a living Great

1:14:46

music. Yeah. And I think with the tourism now and how much Nashville has exploded that the musicians downtown are actually making a really good living.

1:14:58

I saw some great musicians just in the Boyd.

1:15:01

Is that place Tootsies? Is that the name of the place?

1:15:04

I loved that place. I went there a lot.

1:15:06

So you don't, you, you, you wouldn't do that anymore.

1:15:10

You wouldn't go play downtown.

1:15:12

Cause he got the gig. I mean, one night when you just go, Hey, it'd be kind of fun.

1:15:16

Let me go down there.

1:15:18

And, Well,

1:15:21

I'm kind of out of the loop of the downtown Broadway players at this point though, but I wouldn't necessarily like turn it down, but I do.

1:15:34

I do like recording sessions in town as well and Tim's gig or my main lines of great man.

1:15:42

Yeah.

1:15:42

So

1:15:42

why

1:15:42

do

1:15:42

you

1:15:42

love

1:15:42

the

1:15:42

Sopranos

1:15:42

so

1:15:48

much? What makes you Billy novella superfan?

1:15:53

Could I correct you on the pronunciation of my last name?

1:15:56

It's a Nobel Peace

1:15:59

prize. I just Know my dad's going to watch and he's got, I'm

1:16:03

sorry, dad, what's your father's name?

1:16:06

Peter. Peter. No disrespect. Peter Nobel.

1:16:09

I understand when people spell my name wrong, I get pissed.

1:16:12

So oh yes. It's not the word Pissed

1:16:15

fucking right. Insane at shows.

1:16:18

Lack of respect.

1:16:20

And I'm going to blame Andy for not telling me how to pronounce your name.

1:16:23

Fucking, I will say everyone pronounces it, noble everybody.

1:16:29

I mean one in a million that say, oh bell.

1:16:32

But anyway, to answer your question, you know, a lot of the things that you guys have gone over the writing, the acting, the shooting, the production is just all fantastic.

1:16:47

It's all very believable. It has for me become timeless writing.

1:16:54

It's I could have watched it 10 years ago and I'll watch it now.

1:16:59

And it's just still great timeless acting and writing and it just holds up.

1:17:08

But yeah, a couple specific things I related to that I mentioned to Andy when we talked.

1:17:16

So my dad is from Budapest, Hungary, and I, I really liked the, in the Sopranos, the writing kind of the Italian-American writing, being an immigrant or being a descendant of immigrants, the pride that comes with that, but also the frustration that comes with that.

1:17:42

Those are things that can relate to just from having a father from another country.

1:17:48

And I thought that was really cool.

1:17:51

And I hadn't seen that before in a television show personally.

1:17:57

And then another thing I really like about the show is it was filmed during, I guess from 1999 to 2007.

1:18:06

And so that was like a very like formative period for me, that was end of high school and through college and becoming a young adult.

1:18:16

And so everything I'm looking at when I see the show, the style, the cars, the buildings, it's just reminds me of like a very significant time in my life visually and it's nostalgic for me and, and I enjoyed watching it.

1:18:37

How did you, when did you start watching the show?

1:18:41

I came to the show late, probably 2013 or 14.

1:18:47

I remember specifically where I was when I watched the first episode.

1:18:54

So the band Tim's band, we don't always charter flights, but we happen to be on a charter because we had to get to the gig from Las Vegas.

1:19:04

We were, we had a residency with Tim and faith at the Venetian and we had to get to a gig in Florida.

1:19:12

And the only way we could do that was to charter a flight.

1:19:15

So

1:19:15

I

1:19:15

was

1:19:15

in

1:19:15

my

1:19:15

seat

1:19:15

and

1:19:15

I

1:19:15

had

1:19:15

a,

1:19:15

there

1:19:15

was

1:19:15

a

1:19:15

DVD

1:19:15

player

1:19:15

in,

1:19:15

in

1:19:15

my

1:19:15

seat

1:19:15

and

1:19:15

there

1:19:15

was

1:19:15

a

1:19:15

bunch

1:19:15

of

1:19:15

DVDs

1:19:15

and

1:19:15

I

1:19:15

just,

1:19:15

I

1:19:15

wasn't

1:19:15

much

1:19:15

of

1:19:15

a

1:19:15

TV

1:19:15

guy,

1:19:15

but

1:19:15

I

1:19:15

had

1:19:15

heard

1:19:15

that

1:19:15

Sopranos

1:19:15

was

1:19:15

the

1:19:15

greatest

1:19:15

show

1:19:15

of

1:19:15

all

1:19:31

time. So I popped in season one and, and then since then I, I watched it really until now and going forward just on a continuous loop, you know, seasons one through seven.

1:19:45

I watch it. I'm on a plane.

1:19:47

I'm in my hotel room. I'm watching it.

1:19:49

It's cool. Yeah. I just, and I just, I just keep looping it.

1:19:53

I love it. So if they did a country version of the Sopranos, would Tim McGraw be Tony soprano?

1:20:01

Tim acts. He's a pretty good actor.

1:20:04

Friday night lights. He did a great job.

1:20:07

I mean he, A

1:20:09

good Actor. Could he be the Tony soprano of the country group could be Paulie.

1:20:18

It could be Carmella who I wonder who the country, Vince

1:20:27

Gill, Vince Gill complain me. He's a fat guy.

1:20:30

He could play me, Francisco Vince

1:20:32

Gill. I saw play with the Eagles.

1:20:35

Wow. Yeah, you guys, I heard that it was kind of awkward for you guys in the audience.

1:20:41

You wouldn't sit with each other.

1:20:42

So He,

1:20:44

yeah, I, I thought we were going to be sitting together and I found out he wouldn't sit with me, You

1:20:51

know, how it gets like some musical acts.

1:20:54

They only talk when they were on stage.

1:20:57

We all talk more on the podcast.

1:20:59

Really friendship has fucking, the synagogue.

1:21:03

Doesn't have to be like that, but that's how he wants it.

1:21:07

That's what I've heard about the Eagles, you know, maybe not getting along sometimes that's And

1:21:12

they've had their moments as a musician.

1:21:16

Let me ask you, what do you think about the music on the show and, and what are some of your favorite moments and uses of music on the show?

1:21:27

I actually, one of the things I've wanted to bring up was the, the last scene of fun house at the end of season two, that montage is one of my favorite moments in the whole series through and through is playing by the rolling stones and pussies just been killed.

1:21:50

And we're seeing, you know, the guys at the top, so happy at Meadows graduation, but this montage of like the hierarchy of how the mob works from the guy selling, calling cards in the street, and then, you know, showing cuts at the sanitation.

1:22:12

And it's just, it was just a really impactful moment for me.

1:22:17

I don't know. I just loved the tone of it and it set and that song just was really powerful for me.

1:22:26

And that's amazing.

1:22:28

I didn't know if you guys had is something else I asked Andy, I didn't know if he had any insight.

1:22:33

I don't remember hearing this on in your interviews, but do you know if there was a reason or when the decision was made, that there was not gonna be an original score on the Sopranos?

1:22:44

Like there was not going to be a composer?

1:22:47

I think that was from the beginning. I don't think it's something David really liked.

1:22:51

I think he felt that, that, you know, w his aesthetic and, you know, he really wanted to make the Sopranos cinematic and a cinematic for television and his favorite movies really, you know, used, and he's such a musical fan and was a musician, you know, when he was younger, that he wanted to be able to kind of have music in their world rather than a score is not for the characters.

1:23:21

A score is for the audience to kind of, you know, relate to the sh to the movie, right?

1:23:28

The, the, the music, you know, when you do a needle drops, like we did on the Sopranos or source music, you know, within the scene, it's for the characters almost.

1:23:37

And I think that's where David really wanted to explore.

1:23:41

Yeah. Do you listen to all kinds of music, Billy or just country?

1:23:48

No. No. I, I, I like a lot of different kinds of music.

1:23:53

I love like probably Elton John Stevie wonder they kind of my top two Sam cook love.

1:24:01

I love an amazing vocalist.

1:24:06

Yeah. I listened. I listened to a lot of snow.

1:24:11

You've been traveling. You were a young guy. How Old

1:24:13

are you?

1:24:15

39. You look like a baby, like a baby, man.

1:24:19

What do you think happened to Tony at the end of the show?

1:24:24

Well, for a while, or mostly, I believe that life goes on and he's fine.

1:24:30

He was not killed.

1:24:32

I'm kind of with you on that, Steve.

1:24:34

But

1:24:34

I

1:24:34

do

1:24:34

think

1:24:34

about

1:24:34

at

1:24:34

times

1:24:34

that

1:24:34

the

1:24:34

mob

1:24:34

is

1:24:34

kind

1:24:34

of

1:24:34

bigger

1:24:34

than

1:24:34

one

1:24:45

person. And some of the most like powerful episodes for me were like, you know, you're ruining for Adriana to get out.

1:24:52

You ruling for Vito to get or rooting for veto to get out.

1:24:55

And they just can't do it. You know, they have targets on their back.

1:24:59

I know that Tony wasn't trying to get out, but I also wonder if maybe the target on his back just didn't go away.

1:25:06

And he was killed in that moment because the mob was just such a bigger thing than one person.

1:25:14

But if I had to pick, I would say, we cut to black and we just were not privy to his life anymore.

1:25:22

We don't get to see it anymore, but it goes on.

1:25:25

That makes a lot of sense.

1:25:27

So if they did a country version of the Sopranos, let's revisit Tim McGraw as phony As Comella.

1:25:37

We got Vince Gill playing Bobby.

1:25:40

You could play Benny, Billy.

1:25:42

You could play Benny.

1:25:46

Okay. Let's see. We said Willie Nelson was Paulie.

1:25:49

Oh,

1:25:52

I can see Christopher, Christopher.

1:25:55

I don't know his name.

1:25:57

What's his name?

1:26:01

Keith. There've been a kid rock.

1:26:03

Kenny Chesney could play Christopher.

1:26:06

So it's either kid rock or kitty Chesney plays.

1:26:10

Christopher that works. All right.

1:26:12

You play any who else?

1:26:14

We got a big pussy.

1:26:17

Who else is a fact? Chris Stapleton play big pussy.

1:26:21

Now at the beginning of Chris Stapleton, Tennessee whiskey is the same thing as energy James.

1:26:27

I rather go blind the same beginning.

1:26:30

I absolutely check that out.

1:26:34

What was your, so woke up this morning, the book, what was your process for writing that, you know, it's, to me like a book is a daunting task and you guys did it in what a year or so, or I was just wondering what the process was.

1:26:56

How did you meet Phillip Lurman and would you consider having him on an episode to provide some more insights?

1:27:05

This is the next to last episode.

1:27:07

This is my seventh book.

1:27:13

Okay. And Michael's written a novel.

1:27:15

So we've done this before we thought the podcast, you know, could turn into a book, you know, because we had so much material and we have an agent literary and we pitched three different companies, I believe, right.

1:27:36

Michael, I think we've pitched three publishers and, and, and the HarperCollins decided to go with it.

1:27:43

We interviewed different writers. I had worked with Phil before on my last book, big daddy's rules.

1:27:50

And we thought he would be a good man.

1:27:53

And, you know, we, we watched and talk hours and hours and hours and hours.

1:28:03

Some of it was going, first of all, looking at some of the interview material we had from the podcast and then seeing what we liked and what we could build off of going back to some of those cast members and crew members and re interviewing them, asking them further questions.

1:28:18

And then it was Phil and I, and Steve, like you said, talking about other episodes because the book was finished earlier this year.

1:28:28

We had not been through all the episodes on the podcast.

1:28:31

So we had to go through all the episodes and fill with would, and we'd have conversations about all the seasons and the ending and all that stuff.

1:28:40

And a lot of that was from our conversations and Phil would interview us individually and Steve, and then some of it was actually sitting down and writing some stuff like the introduction, some of the connective tissue, the stuff about music.

1:28:54

A lot of that was like, you know, sitting down and actually writing, you know, pages about, about that specific topic and connective tissue between different sections, you know, and the way it's divided up, some of that was just actually written.

1:29:07

So it was kind of a little bit of a, you know, kind of a patchwork of different approaches.

1:29:15

Cause it's, it's quite a lot of material that had to be distilled into it, Went

1:29:20

back and talked to a lot of the guests again, you know what back you talk to them, not on the air, you know?

1:29:28

Yeah. I just have like a lot going on.

1:29:31

So it's just impressive that you can do that in a podcast and filming.

1:29:37

And When you're kind of pulling our hair out, to be honest, it was a very, it was very hard.

1:29:42

Yeah. It was that easy. I mean, there was times that I was very overwhelmed.

1:29:45

I was filming the podcast, the book preparing for the podcast.

1:29:50

The podcast takes quite a bit of time, not just on the air, but you know, preparing.

1:29:56

Yeah. And there was several drafts of the book, you know, and we had to go and we had to go through and also editing.

1:30:02

Cause we both edited a lot of the sections ourselves as well to go through with a fine tooth comb.

1:30:08

Because you know, when you're transcribing an interview, you can't just, you just can't, you can't just transcribe an interview.

1:30:16

You have to try to keep the person's voice.

1:30:19

But also remember somebody who's gonna read this.

1:30:22

They're not hearing it. You know, like if you transcribed every word, I said, word for word, I might tell him like a moron because I'm adding, you know, or I'm not saying everything in perfect, perfectly structured sentences.

1:30:34

And that comes across on the page. So you have to, but you want to keep the voice, the individual voice of the person and their energy.

1:30:43

And that takes it. That takes a bit of skill getting that.

1:30:46

Right. You know what I mean?

1:30:48

Yeah. Yeah. That was a challenge.

1:30:51

Actually. You got a book coming, I believe in a Bose headset.

1:30:57

That's all I want to. Thank you, Billy.

1:31:00

Nobel, your dad, Peter Nobel.

1:31:03

All right, man. Thanks Billy.

1:31:06

I appreciate it Yourself,

1:31:09

man. Have a nice Christmas. You take care.

1:31:12

Christmas. Billy. No bell from Nashville, Tennessee keyboard player and Tim McGraw's band soprano.

1:31:21

Superfan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

1:31:24

Thank you.

1:31:27

Our next guest, Michael is Susan Shannon from eastbound Washington.

1:31:32

She worked in prisons for over 10 years were gang members.

1:31:35

She's a practicing Buddhist and let's bring her up.

1:31:41

Susan Shannon, come on down.

1:31:44

Hey, there she is. Hi Susan.

1:31:49

Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

1:31:52

Thanks for having me when to Treat

1:31:54

now YouTube Buddhists. Aren't going to gang up on me or anything.

1:32:01

I'm trying to convert me.

1:32:03

Is that what it's going to be?

1:32:05

Oh, I don't think that's possible. I don't think so either.

1:32:10

So, so Susan, you worked in prisons were real gang members.

1:32:16

So how real is the brutality on the Sopranos compared to what you've seen in these?

1:32:23

I assume you saw a lot of bad stuff in prison.

1:32:26

I heard a lot of bad stuff in prison. I didn't actually see with my eyes a lot of violence, but I heard probably three or 400, maybe more crime stories.

1:32:35

So very detailed and organized crime is a little different than the street gang violence, but I would say really accurate.

1:32:44

Wow. Were you working in, in Washington state and prisoner?

1:32:48

No, I was working at San Quentin state prison.

1:32:50

Wow, California?

1:32:53

Yeah. Okay. Did you, did You ever have any problems?

1:32:58

No, I did not. And you did like a counseling there?

1:33:02

Well, what kind of work did you do exactly?

1:33:05

I did. What is considered rehabilitative programming?

1:33:09

So self-help programs, programs, aim to help the men transform, help them find their hearts, really find their goodness deal with their traumas in a way that was scaffolded and safe and to put it in Buddhist terms to really find and recognize the truth of suffering versus the isolation of suffering.

1:33:34

And in that way, begin to foster more of a sense of connection and interconnection and ultimately victim impact.

1:33:42

And I also worked as a Buddhist chaplain on death row.

1:33:47

So that was where I got to really, you know, walk the, walk, the talk as a, as a Buddhist.

1:33:56

Wow. Oh my God. That's a heavy-duty stuff.

1:33:59

I mean, that's amazing.

1:34:04

You, what would a Buddhist like lineage, are you part of Tibetans, Tibetan in a specific teacher that w was someone you took refuge with?

1:34:15

I've taken refuge with Lamas of every lineage.

1:34:18

But my first llama of taking refuge was with the Dalai Lama back in 19, 19 80 at the college chakra in Wisconsin.

1:34:31

Yeah. Susan, if Tony ended up in prison, could you, you think you could have helped them reform?

1:34:38

I think it would depend on the, the changes that the people in his family and I mean his immediate family, not so much his mom family, what they would allow him to change because I feel like there was so much pressure on Tony to remain who he, who he was in the mob.

1:35:03

And, and yet at the same time, the freedom that he seemed to express, for example, I'm rewatching the series now.

1:35:12

And last night I watched, I think it was 10 where already Buco is trying to convince him not to kill the soccer coach.

1:35:22

Oh

1:35:24

yeah. And Tony, yeah, true.

1:35:26

He drank and took pills, but he went, he has such exuberance around not hurting anyone.

1:35:35

Remember that he's rolling around on the floor, Carmella finds him.

1:35:38

He's like, I didn't hurt anyone.

1:35:40

And so to me, there was such great potential for Tony to become kind of an iconic representation of transformation.

1:35:49

But like in real life, it really depends on a lot on the people that they're around.

1:35:55

Have you, you must have seen or helped or even other people have you seen a lot of people turn around odd core criminals and you've seen them change before your eyes?

1:36:11

Absolutely. Before my eyes. Yeah. Sometimes it would take a while.

1:36:14

Sometimes it would be the accumulation of a lot of work for years and years for coming to fruition in a moment.

1:36:26

So it can be a very gradual, or it can be very sudden, but I tallied up once that I had worked closely with about a thousand men and there is not one who I did not see transform really.

1:36:44

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

1:36:47

Wow. And neither murders, burglars, rapists, drug dealers, you know, heavy duty gang bangers.

1:36:57

Really. Yeah.

1:37:00

And what does it take for transformation?

1:37:02

I mean, if you, I mean, obviously it's a, it's a long process and there's a lot of factors in it, but if you could, if you could not put it in a nutshell, what does it take for someone to transform?

1:37:14

That's a great question. I think the elements, maybe in order, at least with inmates, is having someone reflect back their goodness, even if they've never seen it before the worst crime for me and all that I heard for the crimes of how these men were raised, how they grew up, you know, the neglect and all that.

1:37:48

So if they can recognize if they can be in front of a nonjudgmental presence, somebody who believes in them, somebody like me, I believe that transformation is not just our birthright, but it's what we're here to do.

1:38:02

Then they can begin to let their stories out.

1:38:05

And that's another element is getting things out of your body, getting your stories out of your body, getting your emotions out of your body and actually being able to name emotions.

1:38:18

Because, you know, when we start out, it's, it's like a five, you know, four, five color crayons, you know, in the little box.

1:38:26

And when we end, it's like 64 because they get a chance to really know the difference between rage and just being annoyed.

1:38:35

So Melfi try to do that with Tony to some degree, how successful do you think she was as a therapist specifically?

1:38:42

I think no-fee was probably extremely successful compared to maybe anybody else come.

1:38:50

But the one thing that didn't happen with Tony that started happening towards the end, especially seasons six, a and B was, he began to see a bottom, you know, in the first season, I think it was the pilot.

1:39:06

He says to Melfi something like, do you ever get the feeling that you're coming in on something at the very end?

1:39:14

And so in that way, he, he, he, he knew we kind of intuited that there was, there was a flow to what his life was going to be and his involvement, but he didn't really hit bottom all the way maybe until almost the very last episode.

1:39:38

And what do you think happened in the last episode?

1:39:41

Well, that was the, the, the line that I wrote after it, after it comes back from the cut to black, Tony says, I think I'm changing my mind.

1:39:54

And the More you think that's what you think happened.

1:39:59

Yeah. That's what I want to think happened because I would like, the CDC Says

1:40:03

that to himself Says

1:40:05

that to everybody there does that to everybody there.

1:40:11

And as he says that to everybody there, if you think about it, it's kind of like putting a clutch in an engine.

1:40:16

It's like, everything is possible at that point.

1:40:20

And everybody who's sitting around the table has their own version of what that would mean and their own fears and insecurities of what that would mean.

1:40:30

Especially if it was, you know, more than just, I'm not going to have eggs, I'm going to have, you know, meet low for something That's

1:40:40

really wild. Any questions for us?

1:40:43

Yes. I have three questions.

1:40:47

So my prison work is all about helping men get out of roles that involve criminal thinking and inflicting on self and others while your work.

1:40:56

And the Sopranos was about getting into such roles and behaviors.

1:41:01

Was there ever a time you noticed the roles you played were leaking into your personal lives, perhaps subtle as in dreams or more visible as in behaviors?

1:41:12

I mean, not me. I mean, Bobby was kind of a nice guy, very nice guy.

1:41:16

I mean, he did murder someone, so, you know, everything is relative, but compared to the other guys, he was a family guy and I didn't take any of that home with me.

1:41:26

I didn't have any of that stuff. You know, over the years I

1:41:30

would take moods home more than anything, you know, being in an angry or sad or whatever kind of moods home.

1:41:37

But there were times when I definitely dreamed about the character and I'm not sure if it was the character's world or my world mixing or just his world, but, you know, and that was the role I did the most and the longest.

1:41:52

So there there's and I look at him as somebody who's not me.

1:41:59

Like when I look back at the Sopranos it's, it's, it's its own person, Christopher Moltisanti is not me.

1:42:08

And I look at him very kind of objective really in a way now, which is interesting, even when I watch it, like, I don't really see me that much.

1:42:18

You don't con I never confused my reality with his let's put it that way.

1:42:23

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

1:42:26

Thanks. My second question is kind of two part, an important block, a building block and helping inmates transform is what we call understanding victim impact.

1:42:37

Has your experience with the Sopranos brought you in contact with experiences of real life victims of organized crime or gang violence, and, or have you been inspired to participate in any kind of socially transformative restorative programs or philanthropic giving?

1:42:56

You know, the, the thing that did happen, you know, we were approached numerous times by, you know, real wise guys or real family of wise guys, just assuming that we were part of, you know, this inside world.

1:43:17

I know I went on Geraldo Rivera show and he kind of ambushed me with questions about the mob.

1:43:25

And I said, I, I don't know that much about it.

1:43:28

I'm just an actor. So there was some of that where they get confused, not me.

1:43:34

I do know that mobsters, it's not a joke and they don't just hurt each other, just like bangers, don't hurt each other.

1:43:43

There's innocent people involved.

1:43:45

And it's not something that I take lightly, you know, with people you dress up as mobsters or act like mobsters.

1:43:53

And they're not, I, I don't find that amusing.

1:44:01

Yeah. I, you know, I D I participated once in a, I have a friend, her name is boss Dreisinger who runs a program called prison to college pipeline.

1:44:14

So she helps people, you know, incarcerated begin a college education that they can continue when they get out.

1:44:22

And once I went in, it was, I went into prison and just gave a talk to some of the inmates.

1:44:31

It was about a 10 of them.

1:44:33

And

1:44:33

a

1:44:33

little

1:44:33

less

1:44:33

than

1:44:33

half

1:44:33

had

1:44:33

been

1:44:33

through

1:44:33

that

1:44:33

program

1:44:33

or

1:44:33

had

1:44:33

been,

1:44:33

were

1:44:33

in

1:44:33

the

1:44:33

program,

1:44:33

the

1:44:33

prison

1:44:33

to

1:44:33

college

1:44:33

the

1:44:33

other

1:44:33

half

1:44:33

was

1:44:42

it. And there was a very distinct difference between those two groups of people, the ones who were involved in the prison to college pipeline, where, you know, you could just tell they had some, you know, they had more hope about their future.

1:44:59

They carry themselves a little bit differently.

1:45:02

They, they, they were more open.

1:45:08

It was interesting experience. And I know, I know she's done amazing things, not just here, but also in South Africa and at some other countries.

1:45:14

And it's, that's a really great program to support.

1:45:19

She's, she's quite exceptional that, that woman, Yeah.

1:45:23

We had a university at San Quentin as well as a very active Shakespeare program.

1:45:29

And it was really wonderful to see these guys who maybe had no education or a third grade education and were dealers on the street, you know, so doing a lot of math and fractions and things, then find out that they were really exceptional students and Excel.

1:45:46

Did you ever read any Ellucian Berlin short stories?

1:45:49

Cause she worked as a creative writing teacher, I think at San Quentin, if I'm not mistaken, if you should check, she used, cause she's written in her stories about it.

1:45:57

You should check it out Berlin.

1:46:00

She's great.

1:46:03

And how long, how long were you awake?

1:46:06

How long ago did you teach it or through your thing at San Quintin?

1:46:11

I was there for 10 years. I got an opportunity to pre COVID move up here to eight and a half acres on this island that I've always wanted to come back to.

1:46:21

And it was a fortuitous timing.

1:46:26

I was planning to go back four times a year, but then COVID hit.

1:46:30

So now I have a Buddhist prison ministry correspondence program.

1:46:35

That's in prisons all across the United States now.

1:46:40

Well, Susan, you know what I'm thinking about joining the Buddhist camp, I'll get in touch with you.

1:46:46

She can take care of and make a good Buddhist.

1:46:51

Who's a good person is a good Buddhist.

1:46:53

I'm a good person. And I I'm thinking about it.

1:46:55

I don't know if there's room for the two of us, Steve.

1:46:57

I'm not sure What's

1:47:00

that I said, yeah, what's that?

1:47:04

Are You agreeing with Michael Oh,

1:47:12

it's a, this thing of ours. That's what we call it.

1:47:16

There is a kind of like the mop. It's kind of the same thing.

1:47:19

It's a different version.

1:47:21

Can I ask my third question? Are we out of time?

1:47:24

Real quick?

1:47:27

Okay. The arc of this podcast began right as we were all locked down and now you're looking, you got a book and a tour and everything, and it's all, all these guests and episodes.

1:47:38

It was not always that easy to listen to in the beginning, but there, it seems like there's been a progression.

1:47:44

What have you learned about each other and or yourself over the course of this podcast?

1:47:53

You know, I learned just to be loose and have fun, you know, with, with, you know, lean into our differences as people and have fun with that.

1:48:04

You know what I mean?

1:48:07

That's what makes this for me, the podcast fun is that we, we, you know, we, we kind of, we went with it, you know what I mean?

1:48:15

Rather than just, there was no other way to do it.

1:48:17

I think then to have really fun and open it up rather than it just be some dry analysis of the show.

1:48:24

Right. You know, at the beginning we didn't know what we were doing.

1:48:27

I mean, I was talking over Michael constantly, you know, zoom was hard, I'd say the first five or six episodes, but I think we found our footing and you know, we wind up having 250,000 listeners, which is a lot of TV shows.

1:48:46

Don't get that many people.

1:48:48

So I think we did our thing and what we learned about each other.

1:48:53

I don't know. We, we was good friends.

1:48:55

We knew about each other.

1:48:57

You know? I mean, I know Michael's got some crazy ideas, but Steve

1:49:01

is very sensitive and takes things personal alive.

1:49:05

I knew that too Personal.

1:49:08

There's nothing. I don't take personal.

1:49:11

That's where a little Buddhism might be a good thing.

1:49:14

Maybe it is, But I want to come back as something good.

1:49:17

When I die, you know what? You need to work towards that.

1:49:22

Steven. I want to come back something good, Susan.

1:49:25

I need, before I joined, I need to come back with something.

1:49:30

Good. I need that guarantee.

1:49:32

Yeah. Okay. I'll pray for you.

1:49:40

Yeah. Good work. Likewise. Thank you so much.

1:49:45

I'm going to do it, Michael I'm to do it.

1:49:48

That Susan Shannon. She was Great.

1:49:51

I enjoy talking to, I found Washington.

1:49:54

Fantastic.

1:49:58

Yes. Alright. Here we go. I last guess Jeffrey

1:50:01

Sachs direct from Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel.

1:50:06

He's born in New Jersey.

1:50:08

He's an Orthodox rabbi.

1:50:11

He is a super fan and he is here joining us now.

1:50:15

Hello, Jeffrey.

1:50:17

There is Jeffrey. How are ya?

1:50:19

Hey guys, How are you doing?

1:50:22

Yeah. You're from New Jersey. Are you on the lamb out there in Israel?

1:50:25

I'm from New Jersey, but I'm not escaping the lie, but living in Israel for almost 30 years, Really?

1:50:30

You didn't take the city gods cash in.

1:50:33

Take off. Did you?

1:50:35

I came as a young man and I've had most of my rabbinic career here in Israel.

1:50:40

And let me ask you just a personal question.

1:50:43

How's the food in Israel compared to in New Jersey?

1:50:49

The food here is great. Cool. Well, if my wife's cooking is delicious And

1:50:53

you're in the city, Jerusalem, is that where you live?

1:50:56

I work in Jerusalem. I live in a suburb of Jerusalem Suburb.

1:50:59

I mean, that's one city I've always wanted to see.

1:51:02

I have to get there. We very happy to host you both.

1:51:05

When you come. If there's a lot of fans out here, I

1:51:08

got to, I have to, I have to go there.

1:51:10

I mean, it's such a special place.

1:51:13

So let me ask you, when was the first time you saw the Sopranos?

1:51:18

I didn't see it on the original run.

1:51:20

When it aired first in the United States, it came here at some point a little later, back in those years, Israeli TV was always quite far behind, but my, my parents, you know, remained in New Jersey.

1:51:31

After I came here at the time they were living on the, on the Jersey shore.

1:51:36

As a matter of fact, there are scenes that are filmed in Asbury park in, in, at one particular episode.

1:51:43

And there was like a whole big buzz down where they lived on the shore that the Sopranos were shooting or shooting down the, down the boardwalk.

1:51:52

And they had mentioned it to me and turned me onto it.

1:51:54

And I'd watched it, you know, at that time I kind of caught up with it by the end of the series when the, when the series ended.

1:52:02

And then during Corona, we, we had a rewatch which also timed nicely with discovering your podcast and following along.

1:52:12

So Robert, let me ask you, if Tony came to you for guidance, what would you tell him?

1:52:18

Maybe could you have saved this guy?

1:52:20

Well, that's an interesting question.

1:52:22

And I think that there's a certain amount of, there's a certain amount of Jewishness, or as we say, Yiddishkeit in, in the Sopranos in all types of ways, you know, not just the presence of characters like hash and his family and that short story arc with the Hasidic Jews early on in the, in the, in the first season, but even much more deeply embedded.

1:52:47

There's a lot of Jewish wisdom that can be brought to bear on this.

1:52:51

And I think we have to look at a very important episode from the third season when Carmella goes to see Dr.

1:52:59

Krakowski, who's obviously this very old school Jewish psychiatrist in Livingston, New Jersey, not far from, from where I grew up, one of my favorite scenes in the whole series, great Sally Boyer who played the Boyer.

1:53:14

Right? And I went back and I rewatched the episode in advance of our conversation.

1:53:18

I was amazed it's total of exactly four minutes long.

1:53:24

It shows you how densely things are packed.

1:53:27

And if you would have asked me before I watched it, I would have said it was like half the episode.

1:53:30

I would have said that they, the, the scenes keep cutting back.

1:53:33

Then it's one scene, four minutes in total.

1:53:36

And the whole show, as, as we say in the Talmud, everything while standing on one foot, meaning in a nutshell, it's all there in the third episode and it, and it in the third season, and it goes like an arc to the very end.

1:53:50

He is the opposite of, he is the opposite of Melfi.

1:53:54

And he tells her, look, you can't, you can't fix him.

1:53:59

You're an enabler, right?

1:54:01

He says, you're an accomplice. And Carmela says, nah, I only wash his laundry and put his dinner on the table.

1:54:06

So he says, fine then you're is it maybe the better word is, you're an enabler.

1:54:11

If that's, if that's a more appropriate word and he sister, you can't, you can't, you can't say that you weren't warned.

1:54:17

You can't say that. You didn't know. Can't say we didn't tell you.

1:54:20

She's a little, our, our people, you know, to us, divorce is very serious.

1:54:23

He says, hang on a second. I've been happily married for 30 whatever years.

1:54:28

And she says, well, you're going to charge me, charge me anyway.

1:54:32

You know, obviously there's a kind of a Jewish or antisemitic tone to that.

1:54:38

And he says, no, I didn't catch that.

1:54:42

He says, he says, no, I'm not going to take your money.

1:54:45

Cause I won't take blood money.

1:54:47

So that's saved them.

1:54:49

But I don't think that he could be saved in the sense that you might be meeting the attorney.

1:54:54

I mean, I'd like to think that I would have responded that I would have been, I would have been rabbi.

1:54:58

Krakowski not a psychiatrist Kerlikowske but I think that that's the answer.

1:55:02

And I think everything is embedded in there. I know that as your program is coming to an end, you're, you're rather fixated on this question of what happens when the spring goes to black.

1:55:12

And I think that the, I think that, that the answer to that question is already embedded early on in, in the series, because I think what Krakowski says points in a certain direction, which we can expand upon in a, in a moment.

1:55:28

So you'd think Tony soprano died at the end.

1:55:31

So I'll give you a rather philosophical answer.

1:55:33

I'll give you a rather if you'll pardon me a rather tell MUTEK answer for the listeners at home.

1:55:39

I'm, I'm, I'm making that Tel MUTEK movement with my, with my thumb and I'll split the hair and say, you know, almost philosophically like Schrodinger's cat, he's both alive and dead in a sense that it doesn't matter.

1:55:53

And here's why, if you just give me one minute, I'll explain why so much attention is focused on that last scene in the diner.

1:56:01

And so much attention is focused on the, on the cut to black and, and, and what happens.

1:56:08

But because of that, we've all been overlooking.

1:56:11

What I think is the most important scene in the final episode.

1:56:15

And that's the penultimate before Tony goes to meet the family and the diner, he goes to see uncle Joe, uncle Jew.

1:56:24

You know, we always thought he was, you know, but it's not, it's just uncle junior, but he goes to see uncle Jew for the last time.

1:56:32

It's the, it's the first time they've seen each other since the shooting Tony this whole time has not believed for a second.

1:56:39

That Jr is, is demented.

1:56:42

He thinks it's all a scam to avoid the law, to avoid the consequences of having shot.

1:56:47

Tony, how many gets there?

1:56:50

And he sees them for the first time in however long, I don't know how much time has passed in the series.

1:56:54

And he says, you don't remember Bobby, you don't have a Janice, Johnny boy, my father, your kid, brother, and Jr's face is a blank.

1:57:07

And then Tony says this thing of ours, and there's a glimmer in Junior's eye.

1:57:15

And he says, I was part of that.

1:57:17

And Tony says, yeah, you and my father, you ran north Jersey and junior smiles.

1:57:25

And he says, that's a good thing.

1:57:29

And Tony walks out, what is that scene?

1:57:32

It's all embedded in that scene.

1:57:35

And it's the, you know, it's the wisdom of, of so many different faith communities.

1:57:39

It's the great question.

1:57:41

Can you be a good person that does bad things or does doing bad things mean you're a bad person and Tony understands this is after Tony's broken up in the previous episode with Melfi, right?

1:57:55

And Melfi, you come to realize fabulous actress, terrible psychiatrist, Rabbi,

1:58:02

Jeffrey Sachs, any relation to Johnny Sachs,

1:58:07

Thank goodness you be safe out there.

1:58:09

And it was wonderful talking to you. And I honestly mean that.

1:58:13

Thank you very much. Thanks for you for entering the contest and thanks for coming on and, and for all your words of wisdom, we appreciate it.

1:58:22

Thank you. I was, I was talking, I was talking with my study partner, Dr.

1:58:27

Neil Lurman about how wonderful, you know, the experience of going through the show.

1:58:32

Again with the two of you has been, it's really opened open so many layers of meeting, and that's why, that's why the show really is a classic.

1:58:40

The definition of a classic is something that sustains that ongoing reexamination that you go back to it and you turn it over and over and over again, and gain new insights and new and new wisdom from it.

1:58:52

And for that, we thank you. We thank you for the show and we thank you for this, for this podcast.

1:58:58

Bye. Take care. Thanks, bye.

1:59:01

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

1:59:06

All right. Thanks for listening.

1:59:08

Remember, new episodes are released every Monday.

1:59:14

Really? We only got one more.

1:59:17

No one more episode. Next Monday, please subscribe.

1:59:21

Forget subscribing. We talked about that.

1:59:24

You forget that you can follow us on Twitter, Instagram like us on Facebook right now, get official talking Sopranos merchandise, talking sopranos.com to the YouTube channel.

1:59:39

You know, book is available, woke up this morning, wherever you get your books.

1:59:44

And that's it.

1:59:47

Our executive producers, Jeff Sussman, entire production supervised by Andy.

1:59:52

What is this credit? I'd never saw this. It's a free tire production supervised and exclusively by Andy vertebra.

2:00:01

What the fuck is His

2:00:03

fucking? He goes out of control. This guy. It used to be just producer.

2:00:05

Now it's entire production supervised.

2:00:08

You know, I think Michael, I got a sneaky feeling for him being on last week that he's going to do a podcast with him on Screen.

2:00:19

And he's going to spill all the behind the scenes secrets.

2:00:22

What the fuck He's doing? I know what he's setting up Entire

2:00:25

production supervised by Andy verder.

2:00:29

Our music was composed and performed by Elijah Amitan.

2:00:32

You can hear more of Elijah's music and the bands Zopa which Elijah and I played together by clicking the links on talking sopranos.com.

2:00:40

Our production crew includes Tyler Durham and Sierra Sherpa talking Sopranos is a pod jams production Man.

2:00:48

One more, one More to go.

2:00:50

And we're out of here, The

2:00:54

end of the fucking dance Hello, Michael. What's up, buddy? I I can't believe this. I mean, I this was the next to last episode. It's the next to last episode. You know, on the Sopranos, 90, the next to last episode was always the shocker. Is that gonna happen here? Who knows? We're we're talking to superfans today from 90. And from all over the world, real Superfans. I mean, we had such success the first time around with some great superfans that we go We'll try it again, you know. And thousands people throw it in as And every fan every fan is getting assigned book and getting a bold headphones for their accent. Negotiation. We are great fans. 90 of the book, if you haven't heard by now, 90 and I wrote a book called World Cup this morning. It is the definitive oral history of the Sopranos. It is now a New York Times best selling book. Insta bestseller. Insta bestseller. Insta bestseller, the holidays are here. This is the perfect gift for Sopranos fan. It's packed with pictures. It's packed with stories. Interviews with the cast and crew, lots which didn't make it to the podcast. This really is the final word on television's greatest show. There's signed copies available. Go online. You know, it's available wherever books us sold, and we're very proud of it. We think we think it's all. Absolutely. 90 and a great gift. And also, if you wanna see how live shows, 90 in Staten Island. The only New York City appearance on February twelfth. We're at the Saint George theater. Then we're in Winnipeg on March 5th, March 12th, we're outside of Toronto casino, Rama and may 90. Then we're in Winnipeg on March fifth, March twelfth, we're outside of Toronto, 90, Rava, And to make twenty eight, we're in Waterloo. Waterloo, New York, the Do Lago resort. It's a 90, He's a few. Thank you. So Willie Boy wants to say thank you. Michael, he wants to say thank you for you for all. He knows you love him. He's ready for the holiday 90, and he just wants a safe 90 on for Michael. I Willie, you look 90. You look great. It looks really good. Does he do a shot? He looks great. 90 yeah. He looks good. He loves the camera. He loves the camera. Yeah, he's very comfortable in front of the Yeah. He's very comfortable in front of camera. Yeah. His family were in a lot of commercials. He comes from a show of his family. Really? From Santa Clarita, California. Right. That's his hometown. Well Yeah. Michael and Anne, and say hello to Uncle Andy, the drunk. Uncle Andy is a drunk. He drinks a lot of eggnock. Okay. That's it. Thank you. To say. Good to say, Will. Oh, wait. I wanna thank our co author, Phil Lerman, who wrote a book with us. He did a fantastic job. He's a wonderful guy. He worked so hard as we did and It's just his first New York Times bestseller. And I wanna thank Phil Liberman. I wanna thank Valerie Bau. Valerie Bau. Jesus Christ. A business manager slash business manager slash 90, and, of course, the great Raja Heber, or if 90 Sarico calls him myelansky? 90 Which is our lawyer, lawyer, is our lawyer. Raj is our lawyer right hand, man. 90 takes care of business. Brooklyn City market, Donald Laguna, if you need a if you're from New York and you need a or back east, you need a fix, you know, I can 90 a pizza fix, a real pizza fix, no pizza hut, like a real one Brooklyn 90 market. And of course, our attorney Mike the hitman Harriet who has listened to every podcast and he's our agent. He's our agent. I'm sorry. Our agent a a literary agent, 90, a literary agency. And Mike has been, well, you know, a lot of agents They make the 90, and then you never hear from them again. They collect their commission, not what Mike. He's been with us every step of the way. He's a good man. Mike 90, and thank you, Mike. Alright. We're ready for Superfan, Michael. Let's go bring them go. Bring him on. Let's go. We got that first guy up. He's from Miami, Florida. He created the very popular and well done Sopranos autopsy, a website that breaks down every episode of the he just recently finished his final episode. Let's say hello to Ron Bernad. Out of Miami, Florida. Oh, there you are. Oh, okay. How are you, Ryan? How are you doing? Good. How are you guys? Thanks for doing this. So Let me ask you. So for the people out there that don't know, tell us what exactly is SopranosSaturday. 90 long you've been working on it and why you started it? I started it. You guys can probably relay with the podcast. I was trying to find some way to make myself more miserable, you know, try to find a way to complicate my life for no reason. I started about six, seven years ago, you know, because I felt like there wasn't this type of analysis for the show. So I just wanted to fill up that space. You know, the Sopranos to me is like high art and low art. At the same time, it's like, you know, our put about very high caliber and popular entertainment at the same time. So I was trying to match that tone with my with my website. Now were You wanted the first guys to do it, you one of the first guys to do it? Right? I believe, I believe I, I was, I 90. I believe III was. Yeah. Well, you also I think one of the best guys who've done it because I I've seen a lot of the posts and a lot of the a lot of the chapters and and you're just super smart. And you're super insightful. Sometimes I'll go on and I'll see if there's certain things that 90 have in common that we've dug out of the show, but you kinda even go beyond into places that I can't even wrap my head around. You're a little bit above my my my intelligence level. You're very smart and it's really, it's really well done and really thought you're very smart. It's really it's really well done and really thought out And I think you've you've done a great thing for the for you know. Thank you. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Now how long does it take you to break down one episode? I usually once I start, like, start to finish 90 six weeks, but the final episode with that Next 90. I mean, I chip at it. You know, I don't sit down because I've got other stuff to do. But, yeah, six to eight 90. Wow. Yeah. The final episode final episode which I just put up, like, couple days ago, took me almost four months. It's funny. Cause we just did, did it because we just did did it yesterday, really. Uh-huh. You know, it's not released yet, but it was interesting going to look at that. That last episode took me the longest out of all the ones we broke down and I I took the most notes on it just because it's it's very resonant. There's a lot of things a lot of things that play in lot of themes. Right. I wanna ask you What's your favorite episode? That's a tough one, but if I had to answer, I would say, Kennedy and Heidi, starts out pretty you know, kind of conventionally in the sense that there's mob death, 90 dies early in the episode. But then 90 go on this wild ride and it ends up with Tony on 90 having this kind of otherworldly 90, how to Nevada Desert. You know, and the ride that it takes us on to get us there is, you know, plus all the the visuals. I mean, it's looks so different from the other episodes. The I love the the the score. You know, there's a Lucinda William songs. There's two pretender songs. There's a classical song at the end. It just looks and sounds different. Yeah. It's pretty special. It's a good one. Wrong. Can I ask you what you do for a living? Right I'm working as property manager. So this is hobby. Yeah. Pretty much. This is a hobby for the most part. I mean Well, the fact You know, I kinda think, like, property manager is the hobby, but this is, like, what I really wanna do. This should help you. Have you been involved in FilmTV, television, creative writing, literature? Have you been a teacher? Have you done any of those things? 90 that stuff? Did you have a degree in those things? Well, I have a liberal arts 90, so I kinda touched upon a lot of those things in in college. I had started out as an architectural major, but I switched to to liberal liberal arts. I've also noticed that, you know, similar to kind of what I've dealt with, not so much on the podcast, but on Instagram or social 90, you've had moments where you've sparred with a few fans. Some some some getting pretty below the belt, not on your part, not on their part. And, you know, you've, you know, bringing up certain political things and and some some which come out of the show and that you addressed -- Right. -- and you've had to do some sparring along the way, which I found interesting, and your handling of it. It always very it is always very classy. Thank you. I've seen it on your Instagram too, and I I love your sort of minimalist approach to to dealing with these people. You know, it's something I gotta learn from. I don't know. I think you do pretty well. And and we're on are you gonna do any other shows? I mean, do you plan on breaking down any other shows or it's Sopranos or nothing? Are you guys planning on doing a podcast for another show? Wait. We're going to do a rewatch of the rewatch talking, talking 90 gonna do a rewatch of the podcast. Talking Sopranos. We're gonna break down our podcast episode. So people have suggested that they wanna do a to prima's 90. There you go. Have you done a podcast? No. I've been approached, but, you know, it's a lot more work than people realize. Have you done a you've been a guest so Right? Besides this Yeah. I I did one. I think he wanted also part of Bing. Yeah. I did part of Bing. That was very that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed that a lot. I mean, I love the show, of course, but I've I've actually only watched the show five times, like, front to back. And a big part of that is just working on the website, but there are people out there who've seen the show, like, twenty times, twenty times. You know, three times a year. Yeah. That's pretty that's that's a big commitment. Isn't it? Yeah. Hey, Ron. Did you listen to our podcast? Oh, absolutely. You know you know the reason why I I listen to it mainly because I have this feeling in a couple of years. I'm gonna wake up one morning. On 90 headline Michael 90 murdered by Steve Sheripa, or or vice versa. So it's like You can say you knew them when. Yeah. But you know what? When it's ending before we get to that. So it's it's gonna end. Almost at the end. Ron, What do you think happened at the at the final episode? I think it's ambiguous. You know, that that was my initial reaction. That was, like, the feeling I felt in my gut. I mean, of course, the first thought was my cable went out. But since the the credit start rolling, I thought that's a perfect ending. It's a beautiful ending, and it's an ambiguous ending. You know, I don't know if that's what Chase meant, but that's what I felt. Have you ever thought of turning your website into a book 90? Yeah. It's not Why? You know, in manuscript form, comes it out to fifteen hundred pages. I would have to get all kinds of permissions from you know, I I have quotes from, like, hundreds of people. I'd have to get permission from all the publishers know, plus I rely a lot on, like, video clips and animations and videos and little screenshots and stuff. So there's no way I could put all of that. It's big of a big Too big of an big of an undertaking. Yeah. It's not really worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I tell you, the people love what you do. And -- Okay. -- I I've I've looked at your website when I knew you were coming on, and You're very thorough and you're 90, very smart guy. You know, I I was I was worried that you were gonna tell me my website's love too. I'm so tired of terror. 90 esoteric theories on that. Well, listen, it probably Listen. It it probably is I'm busy talking about Milton Berle's cock. I'm not that's I can't tell that's do it again? That's why. That's what he said. It's high art and low art. It's high art, but it's very well done. Listen, I may not agree with you with everything, but I am not a dumb Listen, I may not agree with you. With everything. But I but I am not a dumb guy. I could see how intelligent and how much work goes into it. Just like, you know, you don't like this kind of music. That doesn't mean they're not good musicians. Right. You know, but also for the record, I I don't actually believe in a lot of the theories that I'm hosting up, you know. I I I'm kinda with you there. You know, I'm just posting it just for the sake of discussion, evaluation. Yeah. Yeah. exactly. it's, you know, 90 talking to David. Right? There's certain specific things that, like, we asked him about there's that theory about Rehan and being a rat. To push, you know, that and he's just like, no, that's not there at all. But the show is so kind of juicy and complex, that it lends itself to those things. That's what's cool about it. That that inspires those flights of fancy just because it's so, you know, it's it's just so unique and special and and thoughtful that that's the key to it. It doesn't really matter if it's intentional. You know what I mean? Exactly. Right. But the only thing is this. Right? Guys, I mean, it's become so much like -- Yeah. -- every single thing means something which is wrong. And now we've had David on three times and I've asked him. About may and age. About age. It is good. In the final episode. Uh-huh. 90 is carrying when they go back into the house after they're in the safe house, the 90, he's carrying a canned hand in his left hand. Really? I didn't even notice that 90? I didn't even notice that. He's got a suitcase in one hand and a can hand, and it means absolutely fucking no. No. That's not true. That's not true, Steve. It doesn't mean it's a, you know, it's you you know, it's not that cut and dry. He wrote in the script or said in the tone 90, Tony's gotta no. But he said Tony's gotta carry a ham. He's not saying so art doesn't have to be like, I'm putting in this this in here because it means this. Nobody's come pick it as that, Michael. I don't know. But it is coming from a specific choice in a place from the artist himself. Congrats. And his consciousness, the artist's consciousness, is so attuned to this world and this 90, this is not a random thing. No. I'm not saying it's random at all. Just like a guy's eating fig new ones in the car. But 90 takes it three steps further. All the ham means that Tony's a ham and he's a pig and he's a, you know what I'm saying? That's what I'm talking. That's The beauty of beauty of it. Yeah. Not to to 90 think and it's not to beauty to me, but No. No. People go overboard with it for sure. You know? And I and I did. My final write up was Superfan that pulled in all these kinds of things. But it was really not because I actually believe this, but just to make the point that anyone can go through the series, go through the episode with a fine tube comb and pull out whatever they want to reach the conclusion that they were already inclined to reach 90. You know, we all see what we wanna see. We pull out whatever evidence that we wanna pull out. Isn't that what MELFI says? Didn't she say something like that at one point? I'm sure she did. 90 90 you want them to say. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. And it's not, you know, of course, it's not just true of the surprise. I mean, it's true every minute of the day all the time. What is your favorite quote from the show? Do you have one? Oh, my favorite quote, you know, I, what I really love is, I don't know if this qualifies as a quote, but I was laughing for like five My favorite quote. You know, I what I really love is I don't know if this qualifies as but I was laughing for, like, five minutes. It's 90 Buko when he's already that meadow, was gonna be an attorney and he does this little thing with his hand. Constitutional law. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Nobody does that like John Ventamilia. Those those the physically the you know, he's very physically gifted -- Right. Right. -- actor, you know. Well, Ron, thank you very much, man. It was a pleasure having you on, honestly. Thank you for having it. And 90 up The good good work. You're a good man. Thank you very much. Thanks. 90 thank you. Keep up. Alright. Alright. Have a have a good holiday. You 90. You too. Alright. See you. There you have it. Yeah. Yeah, Ron. But not creative. I've Sopranos, autopsy. 90 If you haven't checked it out yet, please you haven't checked it out yet, please do. And he does not talk about anyone's cock on his Sopranos autopsy. He's an intelligent guy. He's not an impassil like me. Know what I mean? He's an intelligent man. Listen. We, you know, we we this this podcast is very wide reaching, broad. You know, we've covered we've covered a lot of ground. A lot of us. Alright. We're gonna take a break and come back with some more guests. This podcast is sponsored by better help online podcast is sponsored by Better Health Online therapy. We talk about better help an awful lot on this We talk about Better Health an awful lot on this show. You know, they've been know, they've been loyal. They've been with us right from the beginning and this month, we're also discussing some of the stigmas around mental health, for example, They've been with us right from the beginning. And this month, we're also discussing some of the stigmas around mental health, for example. okay. Some people think you should wait until things are Some people think you should wait until things are unbearable before you go to a therapist. Before you try therapy. That is not true. 90 a tool to utilize before things get worse, and it can help you avoid those lows. Some people think therapies for so called crazy people, but therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with you. It means you recognize that all humans have emotion and we need to learn to control It means you recognize that all humans have emotion, and we need to learn to control them. Not avoid not avoid them. Now, this podcast is almost at its end. You're not going to hear Steve and I talking about better help once this show not gonna hear Steven and I talking about better help once this show ends. So if you've heard, I'll speak about it and you're curious and you think it might be for you. Now is the time to give it shot. You know, you may forget about it when we go off the air and we're not here to remind a You know, you may forget about it when we go off the air and we're not here to remind you. So I strongly encourage you to do what a lot of our fans have done with great success and great So I strongly encourage you to do what a lot of our fans have done with great success and great benefit. If you're thinking about it, you think it might be right for you. Get in touch with better Get in touch with better health. Bauchner: Yeah, listen, we we know that it works to have trained experts here you know, and if you don't like, you know, the therapist for whatever reason, it's just you're not in sync, change one within forty eight hours. So no big so no big deal. It's It's helped. A lot of people better help is one of these businesses that kind of grew out of the pandemic and it's here to a lot of people. Better help is one of these businesses that kinda grew out of the pandemic, and it's here to stay. So you don't have to go into the So you don't have to go into the office. You could do it from your home on You could do it. From your home on vacation. You don't even have to see the therapist if you don't want, you know, and we've been taught that mental health shouldn't be a part of normal life, but that's wrong You don't even have to see the therapist if you don't want, you know. And we've been taught that mental health shouldn't be part of normal life, but that's wrong too. We take care of our bodies with the gym, the doctor, and nutrition. We should be focusing on our minds just as much, if not more better, help us customize online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your We should be focusing on our minds just as much if not more. Better help us customize online 90, that offers video phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in person therapy and you could be matched with the therapist in under forty eight hours. Give it a give it try. It's grown and grown and a It's grown and grown and grown grown. You see why over 2 million people have used better help online therapy and talking Sopranos listeners get 10% off their first [email protected] slash You see why over two million people have used better help online therapy and talking Sopranos listeners. Get ten percent off their first month at better help dot com slash talking. That's B E T T E R H E L That's BETTERHELP dot com slash talking. We only have a couple episodes lifts. Get that Get that ten percent trade out. You won't be You won't be sorry. Okay. Our next guest is super fan Our next guest is Super fan, Irina Rogahevsky from Toronto, Canada. She is a special education teacher. Please welcome Irina. How are you? I'm wonderful. How are you? Terrific. Thanks for joining us. So it's just You started watching Sopranos at sixteen years old. You the sopranos is in every fabric of your 90. You've seen the entire series at least seven times. That's more than us, right? And because of Sopranos, you dressed in leather, tance suits, big bold gold jewelry, and you blast 90 Bennett Music. Yes. They're all true. And I guess that's why you consider yourself a super fan. Right? Absolutely, 90 and so much more. So what would you tell someone that that has never seen the show? What would you tell them? I think I would tell them that it's the best show that has ever been on TV ever, that it is the catalyst for TV show that came after it. That if you enjoy a great plot line, a complex plot line, amazing acting, humor 90. That's the show to watch. And you kind of you know, if you wanna be immersed into a whole different world, then maybe I'm I'm assuming most people aren't familiar with, but can still somehow relate to that would be the show. What's your what's your favorite episode? So I've been since, you know, having this opportunity to speak to you guys, I've thought about it a lot. For sure, it's the one where Janice kills 90. A lot of people I know have said this, but I think it's That that 90, of course, it's beautifully done from the moment she does it to the moment that Tony's telling her that he buried him up on the hill overlooking, you know, surrounded by pineomes. But I feel that even the dialogue in the beginning, all the little stuff, like, for example, he's with 90. In the in the beginning of the show in the beginning of the episode. And she's like, oh, chicken soup for the soul. Oh, for yeah. Chicken soup for the soul. And he's, you know, tomato sauce for the ass, you should read or something that. Like, it's all Like, it's all brilliant. And then when 90, you know, when 90 having the the talk with them, there was 90 junior, and they were talking about, you know, the business venture. And 90 turns him and says, oh, he just told you to fuck off, and he told me to go fuck myself. Like, it's all. The dialogue, everything is just brilliant. The acting in every scene is brilliant. The ending or the song, hey, hey, I saved the world today like realized that the whole episode is just 90 speaking that he's fixing everything. He's fixing everybody, Janice and Richie and everybody and He's fixing 90. Janice and and 90, and everybody, and Carmela, and it's just And then, I guess, the other like, it's like picking a child. I don't have children, but I'm assuming like picking a child. But the episodes where they are purchasing Whitecaps, the 90 house, also brilliant. Yeah. We like that one also. Now What character do you think you're most like? Of all the characters, guys, or girl, on the show. Which one do you think is more like you? Oh, wow. That's a hard one. 90, I'm a mix of 90 because I'm a bit I just say what's on my mind. Let me see you do poorly. Can you do a poorly impression? Let me see. Put the thing in I don't know. He does this a lot, does this a lot. Right? He does. Yeah. He does. That's good. So you're a little bit of 90 because you're out you you know, you're outspoken. Yes. And I'm also a little bit of 90. I believe in the goodness of people. I think that's my biggest takeaway from her characters that she's so she believed in the love she had Christopher. She believed that could overcome him thinking she's a snitch or knowing she's a snitch. She's a rat. And I'm unfortunately like that and no more. I'm putting my foot down. I'm not gonna be like that anymore, but I feel like also her, like, ambition to wanna do something meaningful with her life and her her up her optimism, her, you know, how she she loves, how she's very passionate about relationships and the 90 in their life. So a little bit of 90, little bit of adriana, but also little bit of everybody because I kind of grew up everybody. I'm not like 90, though. Okay. Got you. That's good. I'm glad to hear that. Let me ask you me ask you, I mean, can you would you be able to date someone that didn't like the Sopranos? No. I'm I probably wouldn't be, like I 90, like, Sopranos have an aura. And the man that I sent to go towards are a little bit more 90. That might be my downfall. I don't know. Looking forward, maybe, you know, I'll meet somebody that's a little less edgy, but, like, still kind of answers to 90, you know, my my wants and 90. But I like, if somebody wasn't, like you know, if if guy was to say, oh, I wasn't really into it. I'd be like, no, okay. Maybe you'll give it another try. You know, maybe it doesn't suit you right now, maybe later. But if somebody was like, I don't like it at all. That might be problem. Wow. Do you like do you have any questions for us? Absolutely. So I know that James 90 had some like, I would call it 90, like, I know, maybe issues prolonging from, like, playing that character because it was so far from who he was, and the show has many dark themes. So and you guys also, like, obviously played characters with a lot of issues. And I don't wanna pry too much, but how did it how did playing those characters, you, Michael, for example, with the, you know, the Christopher was very addicted to drugs and etcetera. How did it impact you both in a negative and a positive way? And you're acting, what do you do to tap into somebody like that? Like, I'm very interested in thing. Yeah. And I'm gonna so I'm I'm gonna start classes soon, but I would really like to know, like, how do you tap into something so dark? And how does it affect you in on both, like, spectrums? I think, you know, for me tapping into the darkness, the dark side of characters and humanity is a good way of, you know, kind of letting out, letting out the dark edges of your own I think, you know, for me tapping into the the darkness the dark side of characters and humanity is a good way of, you know, kinda letting out letting out the dark edges of your own personality. 90 know what I mean? It's kind of like a safe a safe vessel or a safe place to just kind of let it all out. You know what I mean? Often in life, we can't just let out dark emotions, difficult emotions, because of situations and because we don't wanna get in trouble, we don't wanna hurt people or offend 90. And acting kinda loud as place. It's almost therapeutic sometimes. You know, you can let out rage, you know, in a in an imaginary place that nobody's being prevented or hurt. You you you let outrage against me on this podcast? Well, this podcast is a And I got around yeah. I know. That's that's part of the show. And, you know, I'll be honest. I think Jim, I think it was the time commitment more than the the character that affected him. He was working nine months every year, every day, most of the time, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen hours a day, 90 had no personal life. He did hardly spent time with his 90. And I think that was harder for him than actually the role. I think the role was you know, I think the role he actually enjoyed. I know, you know, sometimes it got little close close to home. He fell towards the end, but a lot of Jim's pressure was working so much. I understand. Makes sense. That 90 sense. Because I did see some pieces about, like, you know, maybe the the scene where I believe it you and him after the the the situation with Adriana, but that was like an extremely hard scene. And I was just wondering, you know, You know, it's a hard scene because you have to get the stakes are so high and you wanna do a good job. But I think it's it's also for an actor for me to be able to go to the the the beautiful thing about that character is he Christopher had such a range of emotions and things to play. And that's gold for an actor when, you know, play out the states of mind and states of being because he's, you know, because he's under the influence of drugs. You find out your girlfriend's, you know, you're a monster and your girlfriend's been talking to the Fed's life as you knew it is now over. Whatever's gonna happen from here on in is gonna be different. Everything has just been shattered. Stakes don't get higher. That's gold for an actor. Amazing. Amazing. Okay. Well, thank you. So next question would be 90 what was your most challenging 90 Superfan, whether emotionally 90 it was, like, too 90, maybe some sort of, like, you know, behind the scenes kind of tidbits, something that you just couldn't get through that you, you know, that that you 90 really sticks out in your mind. You know, for me, I, you know, I I'm too 90. What I'm on set. I don't have time for that. Yeah. I don't have time to scroll around and play around. I'm kinda 90 about what I do. I mean, lot of times, a simple scene is a hard scene. It was there was a scene with me and Janice when we talked about eating the 90, and we were in the kitchen together, Karen 90. And that was a hard scene. You know, emotionally, you know, to get there. That that was kinda hard. It wasn't not everything easy. That'd be good since it's on the page, you learn your lines, 90 so easy, you know. That was kinda hard. And and and 90 a great actress said, And it took us a little while to figure it out when we got It turned out great, but that was a little hard. And emotional scenes are always kinda hard for me. Yeah. What I'm other said, I I have to worry to worried or just concentrating. I not much fucking around with I'm not much fucking around. With 90, you know. That's impressive. Now on this podcast, I fuck around. Well, that's what makes this podcast so wonderful. Like, honestly, the dynamic between you guys is amazing. Like, it's a treat for us. I've heard that. I I don't know if I believe it, but I've heard that don't know if I believe it, but I've heard that many. Hi, Rita. Thank you very much. We love Toronto, and thank you for coming on. Have a nice holiday. I couldn't thank you for your help. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. You take care. Thanks lot now. Okay. Let's let's You've been called an election. I like talking like talking when I read it. Okay. Our next guest is from Niagara Falls. His name is Paulo 90. He created the YouTube channel, Soprano's theories. Sopranos 90 has over three million views and thirty thousand subscribers. He is a Soprano superfan, obviously. Please 90, please welcome Hello. Hello. How you? Hi. How are you guys? How are you doing, buddy? I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys? Thanks for coming on. You in Niagara Falls, the Canadian the Canadian side or the New York side? The Canadian side. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate a lot now. My pleasure. Why don't you Sopranos theories? Well, I was just bored in quarantine and I was watching 90, you know, every night that was watching North by Northwest and vertigo and I would watch like essays or videos on YouTube about it after the movie. And then I was looking at it and I was like, I can do this. And I was like, you know, why don't I make it about something I love and something that's near and dear to my heart and something that I'm passionate about and being the Sopranos. And yeah. And then, you know, I went to school for, you know, broadcasting 90, television, and FilmTV, and then I 90 to film that University. So was like, I know what I'm doing. I know how to record and do all that stuff. I didn't. Here we are. Thirty thousand subscribers later. Okay. 90. And how many videos have you made? I think I've made around 35 I think I've made around thirty 90 my videos. Some of them are shorter but there are I would say probably thirty videos. Okay. And do you you don't break it down by episode. You just have a specific theory that you investigate in a certain video? Yeah. I I do, like, some 90, and I do, some breakdowns of episodes, like, why Pine Barons is so beloved, and I just recently uploaded a video that was detailing what could possibly be the worst episode of the series if there even is and a worst episode of the series. But III do some 90. Nothing like a s that we all That is good. I will I won't Oh, man. Can bring up a s pile up. Yes. Yeah. No a s stuff. Now you're a s as a woman? A s as a woman. Steve doesn't want me to talk about it, but is is a woman. I'm 90 five years old. Oh, so you just when did you first watch your Sopranos? I started watching it in high I started watching it in high school, so I was fifteen, six teen. And, you know, growing up 90, obviously, you're sort of forced to watch, like, the classic Italian mafia movies, and I love them, goodfellas, casino, Bronx Tail. So I was sort of 90 for more of the mafia genre and my mom recommended the and we would go to our local video store and I have them on DVD and that's started watching them in in high school and then the rest is history. I'm sure you've all heard it. It was such an amazing It was such an amazing show. I was just blown away by everything. I had no idea what I was getting myself into, you know, from a cinematic level and how it impacted my life. Tell us about some of the, you know, tell what are some of your favorite theories that you have. Favorite theories? Yeah. Have some Most interesting things that 90, like, whoa, blew your mind and that made you, you know, wanna make a video about Well, I haven't made a video about this one yet, but the fact that Russ Frugoli 90 potentially be Poly Walnut's father. And then I also 90, really loved you know, I haven't made a video about it either, but the ending, you know, everyone loves the ending. You know, is it 90, that one of them dead, you know, members only jacket, of course. Right? Is it New York, all that stuff? Is that a theory at that a theory that that Eugene Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Members only that's why 90 said members only had so many clues in it. That's what she you know, one of the one of our other guests was taught mention that episode. Connecting members only Eugene and the guy in the last episode who's in the diner. Yeah. So what? That's fact 90 brothers something 90 what I understand. Well, how'd you how did gene? He's been dead for 90? He's been dead for years. Right. Well You know? In the first episode, you know, we see it it's called members only of season six, and we see Eugene wearing that jacket as 90 calls him out on it, but then we see the same jacket that gentleman wearing in the last episode. And you know, Eugene also kills someone in that jacket. So I guess you could, you know, you you could connect the dots. There there's a lot there. And what do you think about the the 90 theory that she set the whole debts seen up at Holstens. Do you know about that one? AJ's girlfriend? Yeah. I actually have heard about that. I watched a video about that too. I don't I don't believe that one. But what's the evidence for that one? You know, why why would they think just 90 there when they say we're going to Holstein's. Why are they connecting her to riding them out, you know, riding out to New York? York? Well, don't know. Carmilla tells AJ0. Regarding a host tonight, and she his girlfriend, she looks up at, like, not up because around the couch, but she looks like behind. It almost, like, peaks her interest. So a lot of fans are speculating and, you know, there's -- Oh, really? -- got it. But there's no there's no objective tissue that she has anything to do with New York. 90 that No. No, no, I No. No. I don't don't believe that. That sounds like an AS there. 90. Now, follow, are you breaking or living at this? I'm it's generating some money. Yep. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. It is actually just me recording here, sitting in my room, writing my my ass I 90 write an essay for every video and, you know, it generates some 90, which is awesome, which is which was great. Especially during 90 during quarantine. Yeah. Good for you. That's great. What what what theory that do you think is true that we might have brought do you listen to the podcast? Oh, every episode. Code. One theory that we've talked about that you think is true that you agree or disagree with us. Well, I agree that Adriana was in a regular around the I 90 that Adriana was in a regular round of margins, my favorite episode. She was possibly thinking about, you know, getting with Tony to use information. You know, I I actually rewatched it last night. And you can tell them, like, her body language at the club. You know, she's sort of thinking, oh, I didn't get 90 cell. Right? I think I think she would've slept with think she would've slept with Tony. I think so. Oh, yeah. And Tony was Tony wouldn't have, you know, said no. Oh, no. I Absolutely. No. No. No. No. No. No. Well, he even goes into MELFI and probably right this time. His wife. Right? Yeah. was What'd you say? I was right that time? No. Tony says Tony says, you know, do it right this time. We could start over to the family. Yeah. Exactly. 90 and and so you just do you it's just you all alone. So you just come up with the conspiracy theories just Did did you hear about it on the Internet or it's just your 90, your conspiracy theories? Well, it is, like, my thoughts and opinion. I'm I'm also in, like, you know, Reddit groups, Facebook groups, and just always chatting about the 90. I mean, I mean, I love it. Right? Right? So I take a little bit information, you know, from here and there. I always always 90. have some books and yeah. Some university sources and And what other shows do you like? Is there any other shows you like? Weather shows do I like? Just the Sopranos. Really? Yeah. What what do you think of the ending Sadly. I think he's, he's 90, I think he's he's dead. Everyone's favorite anti hero. He's he's gone. Yeah. I think it's all there. If you if you look at it. Yeah. Like, I wanted to be alive so bad. Me too. Yeah. Well, like, the episode opens with him lying in bed and he's got that pillow there, and we hear Oregon music, and almost looks like a coffin and A hundred percent. Yeah. That's It looks like he's dead. Right? 90. Yeah. Yeah. But Michael, you think he's alive now, you said? We just broke down the final episode We just broke down the final episode yesterday. I'll be honest. With you. And, you know, I always thought he was dead, you know, and I'm watching it yesterday. was like, well, it seems like but the heat is really off him at the time because New York just want most of New York except for Phil wanted to get back to business. Because the money wasn't flowing. They just wanna make money. They don't really give a shit about these personal vendettas. Mhmm. Phil was the opposite, and they got rid of Phil. So who wanted him dead? You know? And also, the member's only guides like doesn't a hitman wouldn't do that. A hitman's not gonna walk in a place where he's gonna do a shooting, sit at the fucking counter, you know, where everybody could see him, stretch to the bathroom. He's not gonna go get a weapon in the bathroom. The that's the godfather because Michael Newey was getting frisked. They had to hide the weapon. This guy would walk in with the weapon. There's no reason for him. No. He would walk in. You think boom boom. Yes, Tony. That's right. Yes. Yeah. Like, you're probably thinking it's very similar to how that dinner with 90. With Sylvia. They just come in bang, bang, They just come in, bang bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, gone. Looks like they killed Bobby the same way. The same way. They weren't in their browsing for for for cabooses. Yeah. Like, at the he's at the counter, you know, I can see that. Yeah. Looking around, you know. Hey, That's Yeah. You know, but but I agree. You know, it looks like he's in a coffee. That all good music. You're you probably don't even hear what happened. Then he's looking, you know, he's not looking at the door for metal. He's looking at the guy coming out of the bathroom. I mean, I wanna believe it. I'm I'm gonna say Tony's alive because that's what I want, but III see things You know? III can't see it. I know. Like, I want I want them to be alive so bad, but I don't know. It's just the 90 line, you probably don't even hear when it happens. You know, 90, he didn't hear the shots until after the shots were fired. And, like, you know, just like when 90 didn't hear anything, Tony doesn't hear anything when he looks up. Right? So Do you have any talking Sopranos conspiracy theories? No. No. No. Do you have any quest sense for us? I I do. Yeah. I have a few here if we got some time. Recently, you guys have been talking about, you know, they would kill everyone. Carmela, a j metal at that ending scene. If you if she's still alive, Carmela, what do you think happened her? Did she Did she remarry? Did she go with you know, because we saw her have a few little things here and there throughout the 90. Oh, yeah. They can I was so 90 o, and then mister Wegler? So do we think she'll be married if she's still alive or what she Well, I I think I think Carmela needs to be kept. You know, 90, you know, even as much as she wanted to do her own thing, I think she needs that big house she needs the money. Oh, yeah. You know, we know that she had a wandering eye not to say that she should have had. But she did. We had the priest. We had the Joe Penney character. Right? The construction guy. We had furio. We had the teacher. Yeah. That's four. You know, maybe I don't know. Did she contact 90 if died? Yeah. So Tony said that certain people, if certain people find him, he's a dead what 90 said about it, Tony? Certain p if certain people find him, he's a dead man. I don't know about that one. I think that, you know, the the mafia back in Italy said, oh, whatever. Tony this this New Jersey guy I want some dead cool, but it never happened. Yeah. If he was making them money, they'd probably say, no. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Yeah. We know those Right. 90 probably would be with someone. She she she 90 like someone who probably would 90 would probably need She's still kind of, you know, relatively young. Yeah. Good looking, you know? I'm sure she could find a nice guy. III have a feeling she wouldn't 90, and probably not a wise guy. You know, who's gonna Some people in that life. Some people in that life, women who are married, you know, they stay in that 90. You know, they I've known couple of people who, you know, they were in relationships and exclusively. I think a guy who either died. You know, she was with another mob guy and they stay in that world. That's the world they know. They're comfortable in. But I think Carmela probably wouldn't would not have. Really? Okay. Well, she wasn't gonna go with 90. No? No. That's all. No. I mean, I couldn't even imagine a guy in the group that would make sense to her. You know what I You know what I mean? I just 90 go for someone, like, I I agree with you there. You know, outside teacher professor -- Yeah. -- a doctor, you know, I think she would try to take her. She was a social climate she was a social climate too. I think she would take that step up. Yeah. I agree. What else do you got? You know, if if the New Jersey crew, the glorified crew, is still assembled. Who do we think is running it? Cause everyone's pretty much Because everyone's pretty much dead. It's a really good question. 90 and Polly, thank you 90 and Polly were, you know, 90, the only guy is still alive, you know, Dante Greco, Walden, 90, or do we think New Year New York just Took it over. Good question. 90 good question. Paulie. 90 obviously didn't want the responsibility. He doesn't wanna rise up, you know. I don't think he has the mental capacity. He doesn't have to run the whole family. And Patsy doesn't seem like a take charge kinda run the world kinda guy. So and the young guys just don't seem like they have that as well. There's a good chance it might have gotten, you know, folded into the New York family. That's a good If if if they kill if they kill Tony, I would say it probably did. If they kill 90. Who says it? Right? You know what? The capitate and we deal with what's left. Alright. Yeah. And we know that we know that the the Jersey guys were given money to New York. They were given envelopes to New York already. They had made that alliance, you know. If 90 came out of the coma 90, I mean, although when he was boss, he didn't really wasn't able to handle it very well, but maybe this would be a little bit different. I don't know. Not an easy job. No. Yeah. Who wants as I think Tony said, nowadays, who wants the job? Who wants the pressure. Yeah. The Pacifico. Without a doubt. What else, Pablo? Anything else? One last one. It was very obviously, it's very difficult to play these Mafios, so 90 murderers. So how did you prepare to play these these characters? And did you use any inspiration to find your way into the role? I I know Michael was on, you know, good fellows and then a witness to the mob. So, you know, maybe that helped a little bit, I would say, Well, III done a few mob things, and I had done a lot of research especially into the New York mob. A lot of historical stuff and, you know, going way back to the beginning and also the more current mob. But for me, it was I found somebody in real life that I knew who grew up in New York, York. Who's he had a cousin who was in the mob and his cousin brought him who's he had a cousin who was in the mob. And his cousin brought him in when he this guy who was relatively young in his early twenties and had him do a few jobs. That were very dangerous jobs. And one of them went bad and he got really freaked out and left New York and tried to be an actor. And emotionally was very much like Christopher. So that that was some something I thought about a lot when we did the pilot. Then it kinda took on its own momentum and its own life when we got into the first season. III didn't really think about that anymore, but it it did help me, you know, set set this character in motion if you will. Right. You know, I grew up around that. You know, I kinda grew up around guys like 90. And I grew up in a bitching horse at the time. It was a big mafia. lot of guys said I knew, you know, guys I grew up with friends of fathers of my friends. So I kinda knew that world a little bit. I was living in Las Vegas. I've seen those guys around. So Yeah. Well, you bring up Las Vegas quickly. I just wanna say, you know, I'm you might have double check with Andy, but I'm pretty sure I submitted an AMA question of the week asking you guys to reopen the contest because I missed the first one. I was so devastated and the night I went to Vegas for Halloween, my friends and you know, the night before I was like, I'm not getting on that plane until I submit this email because I know I can, you know, I deserve to be on, not that anyone else doesn't, but I, I know I'm a super I was so devastated. And the night I went to Vegas halloween, my friends. And, you know, the night before, I was like, I'm not getting on that plane until I submit this email because I know I can you know, I deserve to be on, not that anyone else doesn't, but I I know I'm a super fan. I got pictures here and I got trading cards. I mean, I have this one here. I don't know if you can see it, but it's it's dual signed by Michael and 90 or Federico. Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's just crazy. Of course, I have, you know, the book. I have t shirts you know, 90 sante here. Nice. She's a a diehard fan. Yeah. I just wanna say thank you so much. Thank you, man. It was real nice talking to you. You have a nice Christmas and thank you very Keep up the good work. Thank you so much. You as well. Alright. I'm very grateful that you put me on this podcast. You don't have 3000 applications and very thankful and grateful and you know, keep up the great know, 90 thousand applications. I'm very thankful, I'm grateful, and, you know, keep up the great work. Thank you so much. Thank you, buddy. Thank you so much. You have a good Christmas. You You too. Thank you. That is Paolo 90 from Niagara falls. Nice. That's a nice young It's a nice it's a nice young man. Very smart man. Alright. Let's take a break and then we'll come back with some more details. Talking. Sopranos is also sponsored by Mack Sopranos is also sponsored by Mac Weldon. Okay. The holiday season is here and with it comes the yearly questions of what do I want to wear to non ugly sweater the holiday season is here, and with it comes the yearly questions. 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That's your first refill free and up to forty percent off bundles at get quip dot com slash Sopranos spelled GETQUIP dot com slash talking sopranos. Quip Quip. The good habits good habits company. Alright. company. I'll mix, Superfan, and 90, DPH0. Pietro. She's originally from Brooklyn now in wax whore, South originally from Brooklyn now in Waxhaw, South Carolina. She's watched a show more than twelve times and has been a super fan since nineteen ninety nine. She's a top earner on the Sopranos Facebook thin page. What is that? A top burner? Or earner? I I have no idea. You gotta explain to us. It's let's talk to 90 DiPietro. How's this? Great. Fantastic. Okay, Doug. I should have taken you up on St. I should have been meditating. meditating. It would've helped me it help me out? I don't know, maybe. I'm jumping out. I'm jumping out of my skin. I'm just so excited to 90 speaking to you and Steve and just to be in this whole situation. Just listening to my 90. Listen on to Steve. It's not exciting. At all. It is. It is nothing to be excited about. Yes. It's it's it's it's it's a huge box here talking to you. No. No. Listen. After twenty something years, I I don't know know. I feel like I know you I feel like I know you guys So this is, like, meeting my old friends and speaking to them in person is just crazy. I love it. crazy. Tell me what does it 90, what does it mean? It says you're a top earner on the talking Sprinto's Facebook fan page. What does that mean? Top earner. Top earner. II0, you know, I'm always posted on me. I'm not an administrator. Later, but I'm always posting and because I have so much chugget's knowledge, you know, being with, you know, with the surprise all these years that, you know, a lot of people ask questions you know, and then, you know, I kinda say, well, you know, I kinda give them hints. Well, this is you know, I tell them this, like, the hat, like, what's this? What's that? There's lot of people that say, you know, Tony lived. He didn't die. That's a big thing on the on the fan page. So Hey, 90. What part of Brooklyn are you from? Bensonhurst. Bensonhurst? And my aunt lived on bay, 19th street and we used to go there and we, you know, we used to go there and we used to go to the sink and fill up our glasses of My aunt lived on Bay nineteenth St, and we used to go there, and we 90, you know, we used to go there, 90 used to go to sick and fill up out glasses of water because we always would flip out that when 90 took the water from the force that it would 90, like, cloudy and cloudy. And then a few minutes later, the water would be like a few minutes later the water would be, like, clear. I clear. We thought it was like do it. It was like magic. And just, you know, I worked in Brooklyn. I worked at a a couple of small places in Brooklyn. I worked at the Golden Gate. I'm gonna go gate. Oh, the gate is many gate in. Yes. You can get there many times. Yeah. That's the famous place. What what'd you do there? The front desk? 0III was a servo. I was a servo. Uh-huh. I've I've been in a restaurant business like my whole life. And at one point, I worked there of mob guys would come in, this and that. And, you know, fourth, they have now worked at another place, 90 St. street. And I worked at another, you know, just being around it my whole worked at another, you know, just 90 around in my whole life. life. Yeah. Yeah. Now let me explain to me explain to Michael. Michael. The golden gate is, was, was in Sheepshead bay and it was a short stay The Golden Gate Inn was was in 90 said Bay, and it was a short stay hotel. So they had a lounge downstairs. Right. A downstairs. A lot of guys would take their go modest, you know, cause there wasn't many hotels in Brooklyn for a long of guys would take their commodities. Right. You know, because there wasn't many hotels in Brooklyn. For a long time, there was no new hotels. So the Golden Gate was a place you could rent it for four hours, five hours like that. You know, you can rent the 90, you go in there for a 90, and it was, you know, that kind of whole test. You know, it was perfect. I'm sorry. It was split. It was, like, one side was the brush dry. And it had music and then the up so I was a bar. So it was a tow tote. It was totally set up for that it was totally set up for that situation. Yeah. The golden gate in. 90 useful for this place. If you're from Brooklyn in the sixties and seventies, you know all about it. Yeah. Yeah. Now now, 90, why did you love the show so much? Why did you love the show? Well, I wanted to say that everything on that show okay, is really true. Except for, like, you know, like, in my family, at least, because I saw all so many people on the show were pieces of my family and people that I were was around my whole life. And as and now they talk to like, some people ask questions, what does this mean? Because some people aren't Italian or 90 some of the old customs, like, you know, like, 90 had, yes, we just said they about wearing, like like, why why was 90 so mad about wearing, like, a baseball cap? Well, when I was going up, we were not allowed to wear a hat in the house that was, like, not allowed. Especially at the dinner table, you know, and 90 mean? It would get like smacked off your will get, like, smacked off your head. Yeah. 90 have things like restaurant. Yeah. Is there any good Italian food down there? It's South Carolina? Not much. Yeah. We'll brought you down my daughter moved down here. I want to go I want to go to Disney. I want to work I want to go to Florida. So, 90, what who's your favorite character on the show? Let's see. Well, I I love them all. I love 90. Tony. I love Johnny I love Johnny Sachs. sack. I guess the funniest is to me is besides June is guess the funniest is, to me, is the size open. June is 90 Buchow, was a lot of things that happened in his restaurant and his mannerisms, the 90 of myself, and things that really did happen in in the restaurant business about people stealing and this and that and it really did, you know, really was real. I would have to take my 90 my mug. Oh, boy. Did you have a favorite episode? Yes, I do. I do. I got my my mug set up my books. What's your what's your favorite episode? Well, one of my favorite well, I love them all, but my one of my favorite ones is is six one, members 90. Because I think it has so many clue has so many clues to it. And, you know, if you really watch and pay attention, It's, you know, there's one thing that I was gonna mention to, which I don't no one has ever mentioned this. About when 90 goes to the 90, when he pulls up, and he goes to the FBI, there's a wall. So much I'm actually, like, I don't know, two months ago something, and I'm watching the episode. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, is are those is that a boy are those snakes? And and and when I stopped the the TV, the the wall is two snakes. And then the on the on the it says dead end. There's a dead end sign. So that flipped me out because all the times I watched, which is at least ten or twelve times at least. I never picked up on that. So as you watch it, there's always stuff that you could pick up, and that's why on the fan page, people like, they say things that that they don't know what they're talking about. You have to watch it over and over. over. That's why he goes on and on and on, because you can watch it every day and find something why 90 on and on and on. Because you can watch it every day and find something else. And what do you think those snakes mean? Well, I think I think Eugene was a snake. And then another thing is when is what when Eugene gets to call on the bedroom and the wife says, his mask is voice. This is Flippato. Man his mask is voice. I thought it was originally, I thought it was 90. And I just had googled it, like, a couple weeks ago. And what it was was his message voice was the grammar phone from, like, RCA. RCA. It was was Right. The dog listening to the ground. Yes. Yes. I'm like, oh my god. That's, like, crazy. crazy. That That really And then when and then when 90 hangs himself, then he's, like, standing on, like, a 90. He's standing on a 90. So he hangs himself, and then the then after he hangs himself, the front of the speaker falls down. Like, it's suppose, like, 90, like, he'd like to represent 90 he was he was, you know, 90, like, the FBI. Like, he was No. Things like that. You go 90. You go deep. I I don't go that 90 into the political part of it, but all that stuff is just so amazing. Sure. You know, that's it. amazing. 90, do you have any questions for us? us? I do. Well, I'll tell you about the question. So every week, I sent in about a dozen questions throughout the whole podcast. And 90 at the end when I didn't get out, I was 90, slap in my leg. I'd be like, given the TV the finger, because I really want to get those bows. And then happily, I'm on with you guys and I got the ultimate gift, which is But, you know, I was 90. But I remember your name. Michael kept saying no. No. No. Wow. And I was saying no. Let's have cookie on. Don't on. I don't believe believe him, please. So what's the question? What's question? Wanna talk to her. No. No. Wait. Is this the end? I don't know. What's the question you have? I I medicine in front of my phone for forty five minutes. minutes. I got, I got nausea, and now you get a What's the question you asked for us? Wow. Alright. So 90, you're a little wonky. You're a little 90. I'm sorry. I'm just having a great time. Okay. Good. Good. I have, like, like, ten pages of notes, but I'm like notes. Well, we just need one we just need one question, question. Not 10 not ten pages. Oh, damn it. Okay. Okay. So how did you both feel after the show ended? Lot you know, where you 90, but what you're saying. Not 90, but I mean, like, after, like, a month or two, like, how how was that? I felt both. I was ready to move on, you know, because it was a long stretch in our life and and I I'm someone who likes moving on, you know. I don't I I don't like dwelling in the past. past. I like moving on to new things at the same I like moving on to new things. At the same time, I was sad because it was the best job I ever had, and it was, you know, very fun and I loved the people I worked with. You know, more than 90, I was gonna miss being with them every day. But, you know, 90 in life has its period, you know, in a season. 90 season. So that's how I felt, that's how I felt. Right. You You know, to be honest, I would have stayed, you know, I thought the show had another couple of years left in to be honest, I I would have stayed you know, I I thought the show had another couple of years left in it. it. I honestly I honestly did. I thought they could have brought in some more actors and I thought the audience still was there. Yeah. Which But, 90, they were because -- Yeah. -- we are fifteen years later. Right? Right. I was a little concerned about is this it for me? That was I not gonna maybe work again. Mhmm. You know, hey, this was a great ride. ride. You know, it was, you know, 2007 I had started 1999 was just know, it was, you know, two thousand seven, I had started nineteen ninety nine, was just after the dance. Is that it? Do I go Las Vegas. And, you know, so I was little concerned in that way. way. Of course, course, mister Shell, but I was little concerned that I wasn't gonna work. And luckily, I haven't stopped working. But yeah. Did you guys take the break after, like, the did you like chill out for a while going back, like, did you fill out or did you get back into something else to I don't chill out that much. Yeah. Now much. 90 We did the movie not long after did the movie not long after Michael. We did Michael's movie. Yeah. Yeah. When when I was always stayed 90, What do you think of the ending? What happened at the end of the show? show? died. You think he died? Yeah. He died. Actually, I didn't I really didn't want didn't want that to happen to him, but the thing is I don't think he would I FilmTV bad if he went to jail. I don't think he would've been been a jail person. I don't think he would've did good in jail. I think he would just he was miserable at the end anyway. I mean, put him out of there was 90. You know? You you know, you saw what happened to him at the you know, when 90, when got shot, you saw what really was gonna happen to Tony. Chase, I feel, gave you all that. You know, with not you don't, you know like, if you won't buy, we were saying, you don't, you know, hear it when it happens, and then when the cell was, you know, got scattered with blood after 90 got you know, shot. And then when when Sel was in the hospital, I mean, in the in the coma, Yeah. And on the TV, you saw the little girl screaming. To me, that was Meadows. Meadows 90 when she walked into Hoskins and 90 her father. Good shot. Alright. A shot. one more. Give me one more question. Other question. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Do you think you could watch the show Not not not after the after the talk to Sopranos and after going to a do you think that when things come down to Sopranos You think that you can ever watch the show as a viewer. Like, sit back and just watch it, not, you know, not not taking notes and not with 90 anything just to sit back back. Do you think you could watch it in that, like, we watch it? Maybe maybe years from now because now? I don't I don't know. Yeah. I Yeah. I don't think I can ever do think I can ever do that just because it's it was such a big part of -- Yeah. -- my life and our lives. lives. It's hard, you know, it was different watching it cause we didn't watch the show since it hard. Right. You know, It was different watching it because we didn't watch the show since we 90. aired. So watching it for the podcast was very different because there was time and you have a little bit more So watching it for the podcast. Was very different because there was time and you have a little bit more objectivity. objectivity. You're not wrapped up in You're not wrapped up in it. It's not your world, you know, immediately immediately. So you have a little bit more have a little bit more distance. And I enjoyed it a lot as a viewer, but I still have a very personal connection. To it. I'd be right. 90 that and the book, you know, it was work a lot of work in between that book, but I don't know. It'll be a long time if I ever watch it again. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's wonderful that we have all these young people watching it it's wonderful that they have all these young people. Watching it now. now. It's like like amazing. It's just even amazing. Like I said, it's just I said, even on it's just amazing. I mean, these young kids is somebody they posted on the fan 90, like, that they went to Tony's house and hosted. I'm, like, I'm looking at the picture and it's 90, like, twenty years old or something. I know. Oh my goodness. something. It's amazing. amazing. It just goes on and just goes on and on. That's why, like, with the, you know, your park is what you're doing. doing. I mean, they can refer to mean, they can refer to it. It's just so it's just Sopranos world is actually Soprano world. Yeah. Right. Cook cookie, 90 show. DPH. Thank Have a nice Christmas. Thanks for coming on the show. Great talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Thank you. Yeah. You later. Alright. And, 90 DiPietro from Steve's neck of the woods, Bensonhurst, New York? Bensonhurst. was great. Is great talking to her. Alright, Michael. We're gonna bring out our next guest. guest. Billy Noble from Nashville, Billy Noble from next 90 Tennessee. Tennessee. I remember you extremely drunk in Nashville, Tennessee remember you extremely drunk in Nashville, Tennessee. Several Not many occasion. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Full Was I yell Yelling at the limo driver? You were 90. You were yelling at the limo driver. You're yelling at the manager at the club. club. You are, do. I had a that night, I I had to watch out for you. You Yeah. You went off the 90. rails. I was not a good I was not a good drunk. I'm not a good drunk. For For the most part you the most part, you are. But there was a moment where you went. There was 90 that click when I clicked it just over the notch and then it You're okay. Okay. Okay. And then but, hey. This guy, 90 Noble, is a keyboard player, and Tim McGraw's bad. And he's Superfan. So let's bring on Billy Noble. Hello? Billy Noble. How can I help Billy? What's up, guys? guys? How are you, are you? Hey, man. 90 good. good. Thanks for doing for doing this. Thank you for having me. Are you in Nashville right now? I'm in Nashville. Yeah. Nice. Where are you guys? guys? Are we already in New York fitting Oak 90 are in New York City, New York City. Are you in room? No. No. We're never in the same room. No. same. We We can't be in the, we tried be in the we tried that at doesn't work. They had a separate It's like it's like dogs in a pound. You know? Dog prep. crap. You have our separate have our separate cage. cage. We can no longer be in the same room 90 could no longer be in the same room together, Billy. Actually -- Yeah. -- let's stop bullshit bullshit. The people we can't be in the same room together, the people. We can't be in the same room together. Not gonna happen. That's what you happen. You you, so your keyboard playing in Tim McGraw's you so you're a 90 player in Tim McGraw's band. band. And how long have you done that? I'm doing that since two thousand twelve. So next 90 will be my tenth, ten years. Oh, that's so much 90. Were you in another band before that? Not at his level. I did some other touring gigs and just kind of hustling in bar bands and and playing around town. town. But his gig was like kind of a big his his gig was, like, kind of a big break. Yeah. It's a major 90. Well, but you could make a living as a broadband. Right? You go go. And cause I, I did a thing years ago for the tonight because I I did a thing years ago for the tonight show show. I was a correspondent and I interviewed at the CMA a correspondent. And I interviewed at the CMA awards, I interviewed Tim McGraw and his wife. Oh, yeah. I don't think she liked me that much, but 90 he was up for having some fun, but she kinda gave me a dirty look I thought. But you could go in the bay right? You go in the 90 Tonys. then you passed a high per se. Right? Yeah. You can make you can make a living. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's great music in Nashville. Yeah. And think with the tourism now and how much Nashville has exploded, that the musicians downtown are actually making a 90 good living. living. I saw some great musicians just in the boys. Is that place? 90? Is that the neighborhood? I loved that place. place. I went there a went there a lot. lot. So So you don't, you, you, you wouldn't do that you you you wouldn't do that anymore. You wouldn't go play downtown. Because you got the gig. I 90, one night when you just go, hey. It'll be kind of fun. Let me go down there and well, I'm Well, I'm kind of out of the loop of the downtown Broadway players at this point though, but I wouldn't necessarily like turn it down, but I of out of the loop of the downtown Broadway players at this point, though. Right. But I wouldn't necessarily, like, turn it down. But I do I do, like, recording sessions in town as well. And Tim Skig are my main lines of great man. Yes. So so why do you love Sopranos so much? What makes you 90 Noble a super fan? Could Could I correct you on the pronunciation of my last correct you on the pronunciation of my last name? It's Nobel, don't feel like the peach fries. Alright. I just know my dad's gonna watch and he's got it. I'm just 90, dad. What's your father's name? Peter. Peter no disrespect. Peter nobel. I understand when people spell my name, we're gonna get pissed. So -- Oh. -- piss is not the word. Exactly. Piss. Fucking right. Insane. That shows lack of respect. And I'm gonna blame Andy for not telling me how to pronounce your name. Fuck it, Andy. I will say, everyone pronounce synovial. 90. I mean -- That's all. -- one in the million that say no, Belle. But 90, to answer your question, you know, a lot of the things that you guys have gone over, the writing, the acting, the shooting, it the production is just all fantastic. It's all very believable. believable. It has for me become timeless It has, for me, become timeless writing. It's I I could have watched it ten years ago and I'll watch it now and it's just still great timeless acting and writing and it just holds up. But a couple specific things I related to that I mentioned to Andy when we talked. So my dad is from Budapest, 90. And I I really liked the the in the Sopranos, the writing kind of the Italian American writing being an immigrant or being a descendant of immigrants. The pride that comes with that, but also the frustration that comes with that Those are things that can relate to just from having a father from another country. And I thought that was really cool, and I hadn't seen that before in a television show, personally. And personally. And then another thing I really like about the show is it was filmed during, I guess from 1999 to then Another thing I really like about the show is it was filmed during, I guess, from nineteen ninety nine to two thousand seven. So that was like a very like formative period for me that was end of high school and through college and becoming a young adult. And so everything I'm looking at when I see the show, the style, the cars, the buildings, it just reminds me of like a very significant time of my life visually and it's nostalgic for me and and I enjoy watching it. How did you when did you start watching the show? show? came to the show late. 90 two thousand thirteen or fourteen. 14. I remember specifically where I was when I watched the first I remember specifically where I was when I watched the first episode. Why are you? So the band, 90 band, we don't always charter flights, but we happened to be on the charter because we had to get to the gig from Las Vegas. We were we had a residency with Tim and Faith at the Venetian. And we had to get to a gig in Florida. The only way we could do that was to charter a flight. So I was in my seat and I had a there was a DVD player in in my seat and there was bunch of 90 and I just I wasn't much of a TV guy, but I had heard that Sopranos was the greatest show of all time, so I popped in season one and And then since then, I I watched it really until now and going forward just on a continuous loop. You know, seasons one through seven, I watch it. I'm on a plane. I'm in my hotel room. I'm watching it. It's cool. Yeah. I just and I just I just keep grouping it. it. I love love it. So so if they did a country version of the 90 -- Yes. -- with Tim McGrabbi, 90 Sopranos. He's on the 90. He's a pretty good actor. Friday night lights, he did great job. Right? I mean, he he He's a good actor. Yeah. A good actor. 90 Actor. Could he be the Tony soprano of the country group could be could he be the Tony Sopranos of the 90 group? What what what what what what else did could be Polly? Face could be Carmelo. Yeah. Yeah. Who would be the billing guy? Who I want to use the transcription here's Vin Skill. Vin Skill could play me. He's a fat guy. He could play 90. Vin Skill. Vin Skill, I saw play with the 90. The Eagles. Yeah. Well, Wow. Yeah, you guys, I heard that it was kind of awkward for you guys in the You guys I heard that was kinda awkward for you guys in the 90. audience. You wouldn't sit with each You wouldn't sit with each other. No. No. 90 yeah. Yeah. I I thought we were gonna be sitting together, and I found that he wouldn't sit with me. You know, Bill. Very tense. You know, I guess, like, some musical acts, they only talk when they're on stage. Yeah. We only talk more on the podcast. Okay. Got it. I'll I'll friendship has fucking disintegrate. Doesn't have to be like that, but that's how he wants it. Yeah. That's true. Things that I've heard about the Eagles, you know, maybe not getting along sometimes. That's crazy. They've had their moments. They've had their moments. As a musician, let me ask you, what do you think about the music on the show? And and and what are some of your favorite moments and uses of music on the show? I 90, I actually, one of the things I've wanted to bring up was the, the last scene of fun house at the end of season two, that montage is one of my favorite moments in the whole series through and through is playing by the rolling stones and pussies just been one of the things I wanted to bring up was the last scene of Fun House at the end of 90 two. That montage is one of my favorite moments in the whole series through and through is playing by the Rolling Tonys, and 90 just been killed. killed. And we're seeing, you know, the guys at the top, so happy at Meadows graduation, but this montage of like the hierarchy of how the mob works from the guy selling, calling cards in the street, and then, you know, showing cuts at the we're seeing, you know, the guys at the top so happy at Meadows graduation, but this montage, like, the hierarchy 90 how the mob works from the guy selling calling cards in the 90, and then you know, showing a cut to the sanitation and it it's just a it's just a really impactful moment for me. me. I don't I don't know. I just loved the tone of it, and it set. And that song just was really powerful for 90, and that's amazing, though. Yeah. And I wanted I didn't know if you guys had there's something else I asked, Andy. I didn't know if you any insight. I don't remember hearing this on in your interviews, but do you know if there was a reason or when the decision was made that there was not gonna be an original score on the 90, like, there was not gonna be a composer composer? think that was from the beginning. I don't think it's something David really liked. liked. I think he felt that, that, you know, w his aesthetic and, you know, he really wanted to make the Sopranos cinematic and a cinematic for television and his favorite movies really, you know, used, and he's such a musical fan and was a musician, you know, when he was younger, that he wanted to be able to kind of have music in their world rather than a score is not for the I think he felt that that you know, his aesthetic and, you know, 90 really wanted to make the Sopranos cinematic a a cinematic experience for television and his favorite movies really, you know, used. And he's such a musical fan and was a musician, you know, 90 was younger than he wanted to be able to kind of have music in their world rather than a a score is not for the characters. characters. A score is for the audience to kind of, you know, relate to the sh to the movie, Scores for the audience to kind of, you know, relate to the to the movie. Right? Mhmm. The the the music when you do a needle drops like we did on the Sopranos or source music, you know, within the scene, it's for the characters almost. And I think that's where David really wanted to explore. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Do you listen to all kinds of music, Billy or just you listen to all kinds of music, 90? Yes. Or just country? No. No. No. I, I, I like a lot of different kinds of like a lot of different kinds of music I love, like, probably Elton John's stevie wonder They kind of my top two. Sam Cook. Love love. I love an amazing love an amazing vocalist. Yeah. I listened I listened to a lot of stuff, you know. Now snow. been traveling. You're a young guy. guy. How old are you? Thirty nine. 39. like a baby. No. You look like a baby, man. What do you think happened to Tony at the end of the show? Well, for a while or for 90 I believe that life goes on and he's fine and was not killed. killed. I'm kind of with you on that, with you on that, Steve. But I do think about at times that the mob is kind of bigger than one person person. And some of the most like powerful episodes for me were like, you know, you're ruining for Adriana to get some of the most, like, powerful episodes for 90, 90 like, you know, you're rooting for 90 to get out. You're rooting for 90 to get or rooting for Vido to get out. And they just can't do it. You know, they have targets on their back. I know that Tony wasn't trying to get out, but I also wonder if maybe the target on his back just didn't go away, and he was killed in that moment. Because the mob is just such a bigger thing than one person. person. But if I had to pick, I would say, we cut to black and we just were not privy to his life try to pick I would say, we cut to black and we just we're not privy to his life anymore. We don't get to see it anymore, but it goes on. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So if they did a a country version of the SopranosSaturday 90. Yeah. We got Tim McGraw as Fony. 90 has come out. Fayetteville has come out. We got a video playing Bobby. Bobby. You could play Benny, could play 90. Billy, Billy. You could play you could play Benny. Alright. That'd be honest. Okay. Yeah. Let's say see. We said Willie Nelson was said Willie Nelson was 90, Paulie. Oh, can say it's Christopher. Yes. So you please Christopher. I don't know how much. What's your name? What's your name? Not Keith Urban Kidrock. Kenny Chesley could play Christopher. St it's either Kid Rock or 90 Chesley plays Christopher. That works. How are you playing with? 90? Who else else? We got a big got? Big 90. Who else is a fat cut? Chris Stapleton play Big pussy. Now in the beginning of Chris Stapleton's tennis 90 whiskey is the same thing as Anna James. James. I rather go blind the same I rather go blind. The same beginning. Absolutely. Check that out. I'm fella. out. What was your, so woke up this morning, the book, what was your process for writing that, you know, it's, to me like a book is a daunting task and you guys did it in what a year or so, or I was just wondering what the process was your so woke up this morning, the book. What was your process for writing that? You know, it's to me, like, a book is daunting task and you guys did it and what a year or so? Or I was just wondering what the process was. How did you meet Philip Lerman? And would you consider having him on an episode to provide some more insights? Well, this is this is the next to last episode. This is my seventh book. Yeah. Okay. And Michael's written a novel. novel. So we've done this before we thought the podcast, you know, could turn into a book, you know, because we had so much material and we have an agent literary and we pitched three different companies, I believe, we've done this before. We thought the podcast, you know, could turn into a book because we had so much material 90 we have an agent, a literary agent 90 Pitched three different companies, I 90, right Michael? I think we pitched three publishers and and and HarperCollins decided to go with it. it. 90 interviewed different writers. I had worked with Phil before on my last book, big daddy's rules. And we thought he would be a good man. And, you know, we we watched and talked hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and Yeah. -- I can't even forget the text. Some of it was going first of all, looking at some of the interview material we had from the podcast. And then seeing what we liked and what we could build off of going back to some of those cast members and crew members and re interviewing them, asking them further questions, And then it was Phil and I and 90, like he said, talking about other episodes because the book was finished earlier this year. year. We had not been through all the episodes on the 90 had not been through all the episodes on the podcast. So we had to go through all the episodes and fill with with and and we'd have conversations about all the 90. And the ending and all that stuff. And a lot of that was from our conversations, and Phil would interview us individually, 90 and and 90. And then Some of it was actually sitting down and writing some stuff, like introduction, some of the connective tissue, the stuff about music, music. A lot of that was like, you know, sitting down and actually writing, you know, pages about, about that specific topic and connective tissue between different sections, you know, and the way it's divided up, some of that was just actually lot of that was, like, you know, sitting down and actually writing, you know, pages about about that specific topic and connective tissue between different sections, you know, and the way it's divided up. Some of that was just actually written. So it was kind of a little bit of you know, kind of a patchwork of different approaches because it's it's quite a lot of material that had to be distilled into it. And then we went back and talked to a lot of the guests again. You know? Well, back and talk to them not on the air. You know? Yeah. It's unbelievable. Guys have, like, a lot going on. So it's it's just impressive that you can do that in a podcast and filming and We're the kind of pulling our hair out, to be honest. It was very it was very hard. Yeah. It was not easy. I mean, it was times that I was very overwhelmed. I was filming -- Yeah. -- the podcast, the book, preparing for the podcast. The podcast takes quite a bit of time, not just on the air, but, you know, preparation. Yeah. And there were several drafts of the book, you know. And we had to go and we had to go see and also editing because we both edited a lot of the sections ourselves as well to go through with a fine tooth comb because when you're transcribing an interview, you can't just you just can't you can't just transcribe an interview. interview. You have to try to keep the person's You have to try to keep the person's voice but also remember somebody's gonna read this. this. They're not hearing not hearing it. You know, like, if you transcribed every word, I said word for word, I might sound like a moron because I'm adding, you know, or I'm not saying everything in perfect perfectly structured sentences. And that comes across on the page. page. So you have to, but you want to keep the voice, the individual voice of the person and their you have to but you wanna keep the voice, the individual voice of the person and their 90. And that takes a that takes a bit of skill getting that right. You know what I mean? Yep. Yeah. That was a challenge, Jack. Well, Actually. you got a book coming, I believe, in a bow's headset. So Yeah. Thank you, guys. That's all. I I wanna thank you, 90 Nobel. You dad, Peter, Nobel? Alright. Alright, man. That'd be great. Thank you, Billy. Got me. Billy. I appreciate it appreciate it. Take care. Yourself, man? Thank you. Have a nice Christmas. Christmas. You take You take care. You too. Nice Christmas. 90? No bell. From Nashville, Tennessee keyboard player and Tim McGraw's band, Superfan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Val. Thank you. Our next guest, Michael, is Susan Shannon from Eastbound Washington. Washington. She worked in prisons for over 10 years were gang 90 worked in prisons for over ten years with gang members. She's a practicing Buddhist. And let's bring her out. Susan Shannon, come on down. Hey, there she is. Hi, Susan. Hi, Susan. Hi, Michael. Oh, yeah. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. What a treat. Now you two Buddha sorta get a gang up on me or anything. Absolutely. 90 what you're gonna do? Isn't that the idea? You're gonna try to convert me? You're gonna is that what it's gonna be? No. No. No. No. Oh, I Oh, I don't think that's think that's boss. No. I don't think so either. So so soon, you worked in prisons with real gang members. Yeah. So how real is the brutality on the Sopranos compared to what you've seen in these I assume you saw a lot of bad stuff in prison. I heard a lot of bad stuff in prison. I didn't actually see with my eyes a lot of violence, but I heard probably 90 or four hundred, maybe more crime 90, stories. So very detailed and organized crime is a little different than the street gang violence, but I would say really very detailed. And organized crime is a little different than the street gang violence. But I would say 90 accurate. accurate. Were you working in in Washington State and prison now? prisoner? No, I was working at San Quentin state was working at San Quintin State Prison. Around California. Yeah. Okay. And did you did you ever have any problems? No. 90. No. I did not. And and and you did, like, counseling there. there? Well, what kind of work did you do what kind of work did you do exactly? exactly? I did what is considered rehabilitative programming. So self help programs. Programs aim to help the men transform, help them Find their hearts, really, find their goodness, deal with their traumas in a way that was scaffled it and safe and to put it in Buddhist terms to really find and recognize the truth of suffering versus the isolation of suffering suffering. And in that way, begin to foster more of a sense of connection and interconnection and ultimately victim that way begin to foster more of a sense of connection and interconnection and ultimately 90 impact. And I also worked as a Buddhist Chaplain on Death Rose, so that was where I got to really, you know, walk the walk the talk as a as a Buddhist. Wow. Oh my god. That's that's heavy duty stuff. I mean, that's amazing. amazing. You, what would a Buddhist like lineage, are you part of Tibetans, Tibetan in a specific teacher that w was someone you took refuge what what Buddhist, like, lineage are you part of? Tibetan. A specific 90? Was someone you took refuge with? with? I've I've taken refuge with Lamas of every refuge with WOMAS of every lineage, but my first lama of taking refuge with the dalai lama back in nineteen nineteen eighty at the College Chakra. In Wisconsin. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Amazing. Yeah. Susan, Susan, if Tony ended up in prison, could you, you think you could have helped them if 90 ended up in prison, could you you think you could have helped a reform? I think it would depend on the The changes that the people and his 90, and I mean his immediate family, not so much his mom family, what they would allow him to change because I feel like there was so much pressure on Tony to remain who he who he was in the mob. And and yet at the same time, the freedom that he seem to express, for example, I'm re watching the series now. And last night, I watched, I think it was ten. Where Arty Booker is trying to convince him not to kill the soccer coach. Oh, yeah. Tony Yeah. And Tony yeah. True. He drank and took pills, but 90 would he has such exuberance around not hurting anyone. Remember that? He's rolling around on the floor. Carmelifies him. He's like, I didn't hurt anyone. And so to me, there was such great potential for Tony to become kind of an iconic representation of transformation, but Like in real life, it really depends on a lot on the people that they're around. Have you you must have seen or helped or even other people. Have you seen a lot of people turn around? And I would just say hard core hard core criminals and you've seen them change before your eyes? Absolutely 90 Absolutely. Before my my eyes. Yes. Sometimes it would take a while FilmTV. Sometimes it would be the accumulation of a lot of work for years and years fruit coming to fruition in a moment. So it can be very gradual or it can be very sudden, but I tallied up once that I had worked closely with about a thousand men. And there is not one who I did not see transform. Really? Wow. Yeah. Wow. And 90 murders, burglars, rapists, drug dealers, you know, heavy duty gang bangers. Really? Yeah. That is something. And And what does it take for what does it take for transformation? I transformation? I mean, if you, I mean, obviously it's a, it's a long process and there's a lot of factors in it, but if you could, if you could not put it in a nutshell, what does it take for someone to if you I mean, obviously, it's a it's a long process and there's a lot of factors in it, but if you could if you could not put it in a nutshell, what does it take for someone to transform? Mhmm. That's a great question. question. I think the elements, maybe in order, at least with inmates, is having someone reflect back their goodness, even if they've never seen it before the worst crime for me and all that I heard for the crimes of how these men were raised, how they grew up, you know, the neglect and all think the elements may be in order, at least with inmates. Is having someone reflect back their goodness 90 if they've never seen it before. The worst crime for me in all that I heard were the crimes of how these men were raised, how they grew up. Sure. You know, the neglect and all that. So if they can recognize if they can be in front of a non judgmental presence, somebody who believes in them, somebody who like me, I believe that transformation is not just our birthright, but it's what we're here to do, then they can begin to let their stories out. And that's another element is getting things out of your body, getting your stories out of your body, getting your emotions out of your body and and actually being able to name emotions. Because, you know, when we start out, it's it's like, a five, you know, four five color cramps, you know, in the little box. And when we end, it's like sixty fours because they get a chance to really know the difference between rage and just being annoyed. And you saw MELFI try to do that with Tony to some degree. How successful do you think she was as a therapist? Specific? specifically? I think MELFI was probably extremely successful compared to maybe anybody else But the one thing that didn't happen with Tony that started happening towards the end, especially season six a and b, was he began to see a bottom. You know? In the first season, I think it was the pilot. pilot. He says to Melfi something like, do you ever get the feeling that you're coming in on something at the very says to MELFI something like do you ever get the feeling that you're coming in on something at the very end? And so in that way, he he he he knew we kind of intuited that there was there was a a flow to what his life was going to be in his involvement. But he didn't really hit bottom all the way. 90 until almost the very last episode. Right. And what do you think happened in the last episode? Well, that was the the the line that I wrote after After it comes back from the cut to black, Tony says, I think I'm changing my mind. mind. And the so More you think that's what you think think that's what you think happened. Of? Yeah. That's what I wanna think happened because I would like the 90. He says that to himself. 90 else? He says Says that to everybody there does that to everybody to everybody there. Does that to everybody there? And as he says that to everybody there, if you think about it, it's kinda like putting a clutch in an engine. It's like, everything is possible at that point. And everybody who's sitting around the table has their own version of what that would mean and their own fears and insecurities of what that would 90, especially if it was you know, more than just I'm not gonna have eggs, I'm gonna have, you know, meatloaf or something. How are you doing? That's really well. Any questions for us? Yes. Yes. I have three I have three questions. questions. So my prison work is all about helping men get out of roles that involve criminal thinking and inflicting on self and others while your my prison work is all about helping men get out of roles that involve criminal thinking and inflicting violence on self and others. While your work in the Sopranos was about getting into such roles and behaviors. Was there every time you noticed the roles you played 90 leaking into your personal lives, perhaps subtle as in dreams or more visible as in behaviors. I mean, not me. I mean, Bobby was kind of a nice guy. Very nice guy. I mean, he did murder someone. So, you know, 90 is relative. But compared to the other guys, he is a family guy, and I didn't take any of that home with me. me. I didn't have any of that didn't have any of that stuff, you know. Over the years, you know. I would take moods home more than 90, you know, being in an angry or sad or whatever kind of moods home, but There were times that I definitely dreamed about the character. And I'm not sure if it was the character's world or my world mixing or just this world. But, you know, that was the role I did the most and the longest. So there there there's a And I look at him as somebody who's not me, like, when I look back at the Sopranos, it's it's it's his own person. Yeah. Christopher 90 is not me. Mhmm. And I look at him very kind of objectively in a way now. Which is interesting 90 when I watch it. Like, I don't really see me that much. much. You don't con I never confused my reality with his let's put it that You don't I had never confused my reality with this. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. My second question is kind of two part, an important block, a building block and helping inmates transform is what we call understanding victim second question is kinda two part. An important block building block and helping inmates transform is what we call understanding victim impact. As your experience with Sopranos brought you in contact with experiences of real life victims of organized crime or gang violence, and or have you been inspired to participate in any kind of socially transformative, restorative programs or philanthropic giving? giving? You know, the the thing that did happen, you know, we were approached numerous times by, you know, real wise guys or real family of wise guys. Just assuming that we were part of, you know, this inside world, I know I went on how rather Rivera showed, and he kinda ambushed me with questions about the mob. And I said, I I don't know that much about I'm just an actor. So there were some of that where they get confused, not me. me. I do know that mobsters, it's not a joke and they don't just hurt each other, just like bangers, don't hurt each I do know that mobsters, it's not a joke. And they don't just hurt each other. Just like gangbangers don't hurt each other. Their innocent people evolve. Mhmm. And it's not something that I take lightly, you know, when people, you know, dress up as mobsters or act like mobsters mobsters. And they're not, I, I don't find that they're not III don't find that amusing at Mhmm. No. Thank you. Yeah. You know, I did I participated once in a I have a friend. Her name is Bosch dry singer who runs a program called prisoned college pipeline. Mhmm. So she helps 90, you know, incarcerated begin a college education that they can continue when they get out. Mhmm. And once I went into there's a there was a I went into a prison I just gave a talk to some of the inmates. It was about a ten of them, and them. And a little less than half had been through that program or had been, were in the program, the prison to college the other half was little less than half had been through that program or or had been were in the program, the prison of college, the other half was it, and there was a very distinct difference between those two groups of people. Mhmm. The ones who were involved and the prison to college pipeline were you know, you could just tell they had some you know, they had more hope about their future. future. They carry themselves a little bit carried themselves a little bit 90. They they they were more open. Mhmm. It was an interesting 90. experience. And I know, I know she's done amazing things, not just here, but also in South Africa and at some other And I know I know she's done amazing things, not just 90, but also in South Africa, in some other 90, countries. And it's, that's a really great program to and it's a that's a really great program to support. support. She's, she's quite exceptional that, that woman, 90 she's quite exceptional in that that woman. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. We had a university at San Quentin as well as a very active Shakespeare had a university at Saint Quentin as well as a very active Shakespeare program And it was really wonderful to see these guys who maybe had no education or third grade education and were dealers on the 90, you know, so doing a lot of math and fractions and things. Oh. Ben, find out that they were really exceptional students in Excel. Did you ever read any Lucy and Berlin short stories? Because she worked as creative writing teacher. I think it's Saint Quentin, if I'm not mistaken. If you should check she's because she's written in her stories about it, it. You should check it out you should check it out. Okay. I will. Yeah. We have it. 90 great. Great creative role. To great. And how long, how long were you long how long is will you wait? awake? How long ago did you teach it or through your thing at San How long ago did you teach it? Or who do you think it's SandQuint? Quintin? I was there for 10 was there for ten years. years. I got an opportunity to pre COVID move up here to eight and a half acres on this island that I've always wanted to come back got an opportunity to pre COVID move up here to eight and a half acres on this island that I've always wanted to come back to. And it was fortuitous timing I was planning to go back four times a year, but then COVID hit. So now I have a Buddhist prison ministry correspondence program that's in prisons all across the United States now. Fantastic. 90, now. you know what? I'm thinking about joining the Buddhist camp. I'll get in touch with you. Yeah. You think I would make a good Buddhist? I think 90 who's a good person is a good Buddhist. Buddhist. a good person. And I I'm thinking about I'm I'm thinking about it. I don't know if there's room for the two of us, Steve. I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm thinking about it. What's Susan? I I say, yeah. What's that? Are you agreeing with Michael? I I withhold. I withhold. It's all know, Buddha stick together. Actually, this is what we do. It's a this thing of ours. That's what we call it. Buddha stick together. So you guys that kinda like them up. It's kinda the same thing. It's a different version. version. Can I ask my third ask my third question? Or are we out of time? No. Go ahead. We are there. Okay. The arc of this podcast began right as we were all locked down. And now you're look you got a book and a tour and everything and it's all all these guests and St was not always that easy to listen to in the beginning, but there 90 like there's been a progression progression. What have you learned about each other and or yourself over the course of this have you learned about each other and or yourself over the course of this podcast? podcast? know, I learned just to be loose and have fun, you know, with with you know, lean into our differences as people and have fun with that. You know what I mean? That's what makes this for me, the podcast phone is that we we, you know, we we kinda we went with it. You know what I mean? Rather than just there was no other way to do it, I think, than to have really fun and open it up rather than it just be some dry analysis of the show. Right. You know, at the beginning, we didn't know what we were doing. I mean, I was talking over Michael constantly. 90. You know, Zoom was hard. I'd say the first five or six episodes. Very hard. Yes. But I think we found our footing. And, you know, we wind up having two hundred and fifty thousand listeners, which is a lot of TV shows don't get that many people. That's right. So I think we did our thing. And what we learn about each other. I don't know. We we with good friends. We knew about each other, you know. I mean, I know Michael's got some crazy ideas, but I've always 90 Steve is very sensitive and takes things personal very sensitive and takes things personal a lot. I think 90 alive. I knew that too I knew that too. 90 personal. Yep. Yep. There's nothing I don't think personal. That's where a little Buddhism might be a good thing. 90. Yeah. But I wanna come back as something good when I die. You know, what? You need to work towards 90 to work towards that, 90. It's not just you know, I Steven. wanna come back something good, Susan. Okay. I I 90 before I join III 90 to come back as something good. I need my guarantee. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll pray for you. Take care. Thank you so much. Thanks, Lydia. It's really fun. Yeah. 90 should work. Well, thanks a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you. gonna do it, Michael. Alright. I'm gonna do it. That's Susan Shannon. Shannon. She was 90 was great. And I enjoy talking. It's bound Washington. Very nice for me. Yes. Alright. Here we go. go. I last guess ask, guess, Jeffrey Sachs direct from Jerusalem. Jerusalem 90. He's born in New Jersey. He's an orthodox rabbi. rabbi. He is a super fan and he is here joining us 90 is a super fan and he is here joining us now. Hello, Jeffrey. There he is, Jeffrey. How are you? Hey, guys. How How are you doing? Yeah. You're from New Jersey. Are you on the land out there in Israel? I'm from New Jersey, but I'm not escaping the law. I've been living in Israel for almost thirty years. Oh, really? You didn't take the synagogue's cash and take off. Did you? you? I came as a young man and I've had most of my rabbinic career here in came as a young man, and I've had most of my rabbinic career here in Israel. And let me ask you just personal question. How's the food in Israel compared to in New Jersey. 90 Jersey? food here is great. All of my wife's cooking is delicious. And you're in the city Jerusalem. Is that what you live? live? work in Jerusalem. Jerusalem. I live in a suburb of Jerusalem I live in a suburb of Jerusalem. In a suburb. I mean, that's one city I've always wanted to see. I have to get there. 90 will be very happy to host you both when you come with a lot of fans out here. I got it. I have to I have to go there. I mean, it's such a special place. So let me ask you, when was the first time you saw the Sopranos? I didn't see it on the original run when it aired first in United States. It came here at some point a little later. Back in those years, Israeli TV was always quite far behind, but my parents you know, remained in New Jersey after I came here at the time they were living on the on the Jersey shore. As matter of fact, There are scenes that are filmed in 90 Park in in one particular episode, and there was like a whole big buzz down where they lived on the shore that the Sopranos were shooting were shooting down the down the boardwalk. And they had mentioned it to me and turned me on Twitter and I had watched it, you know, at that time, I kind of caught up with it by the end of the series when the when the series ended. And then during Corona, we we had a a rewatch, which also timed nicely with discovering your podcast and and following alone. So, remember, let me ask you, if Tony came to you for guidance. What would you tell him? I mean, could you have saved this guy That's an interesting question. And I think that there's a certain amount of there's certain amount of Jewishness or as we say Yiddish kite in in the Sopranos in all types of ways, you know, not just the presence of characters like Hash and his family and that short story arc with the Hasidic Jews early on in the the in the in the first season. But even much more deeply embedded, there's a lot of Jewish wisdom that can be brought to bear on this. And I I think we have to look at a a very important episode from the third season when Carmela goes to see Dr. Krueckowski, who's obviously this very old school Jewish psychiatrists in in Livingston, New Jersey, not far from from where I grew up. One of my favorite scenes in the whole series. That's the great 90 Boyer who play. 90 Right? And I went back and I I rewatched the episode in advance of our conversation. I was amazed, it's total of exactly four minutes long. And it shows you how densely things are packed in. If you would have asked me before I watched it, I would have said it was like half the episode. I I would have said that they the the scenes keep cutting back then though it's one scene four minutes in total, total. And the whole show, as, as we say in the Talmud, everything while standing on one foot, meaning in a nutshell, it's all there in the third episode and it, and it in the third season, and it goes like an arc to the very the whole show as as we say in the talmud, everything while standing on on one foot. 90, in a nutshell, it's all there in the third episode. And it and it in the third 90, and it it goes like an arc to the very end. He is the opposite of 90 is the opposite of 90. And he tells her, look, you can't you can't fix him. You're an enabler. Right? He says you're an accomplice and Carmelis says, no. I only blush his laundry and put his dinner on the table. So he says, fine. Then you're Is it 90 the better word? Is you're an enabler? enabler. If that's, if that's a more appropriate word and he sister, you can't, you can't, you can't say that you weren't If that's if that's a more appropriate word, me, sister, you can't you can't you can't say that you weren't warned, you can't say that you didn't know. You can't say we didn't tell you. She's, oh, our our people, you know, to us, divorce is very serious. He says, hang on a sec. And I've been happily married for thirty whatever years. And and she says, well, you're gonna charge me you're gonna charge me anyway. You know, 90, there's a kind of a Jewish or anti Semitic tone to that. He says no. I didn't catch that. I get it. that. He says, he says, no, I'm not going to take your says he says no. I'm not gonna take your money because I won't take blood money. So that's Are you gonna save them? But I don't I don't think that he could be saved in in the sense that you might be being driven too. I mean, I'd like to think that I would have responded and I would been I would have been rabbi Krinsky, not a psychiatrist, Krinsky, but I think that that's the answer. And I think everything is embedded. And I know that as your program is coming to an end, you're you're rather fixated on this question of what happens when the screen goes to black? black. And I think that the, I think that, that the answer to that question is already embedded early on in, in the series, because I think what Krakowski says points in a certain direction, which we can expand upon in a, in a I think that the answer to that question is already embedded early on in in the series because I think what 90 says points in a certain direction which we can expand upon in a in a moment. So you think Tony Sopranos died at the end? So I'll give you a rather philosophical answer. I'll give you a rather if you'll pardon me a rather telemuted answer for the listeners at home, I'm I'm making that telemuted movement with my with my thumb and I'll split the hair and say, you know, almost philosophically 90 Schrodinger's cat, he's both alive and dead. In a sense that it doesn't matter. And here's why. If you just give me one minute, I'll explain why. So much attention is focused on that last 90 in the diner. And so much attention is focused on the on the cut to black and and and what happens. But because of that, we've all been overlooking what I think is the most important scene in the final episode, and that's the penultimate Before Tony goes to meet the family in the diner, he goes to see Uncle Jew, Uncle Jew. You know, we always thought he was, you know but it's not. He's just uncle junior, but he goes to see uncle Jude for the last time time. It's the, it's the first time they've seen each other since the shooting Tony this whole time has not believed for a it's the first time they've seen each other since the shooting. 90, this whole time, has not believed for a second that junior is is demented. He thinks it's all a scam to avoid the law, to avoid consequences of having shut. 90, And when he gets there and he sees him for the first time in however long, I don't know how much time has passed in the 90. And he says, you don't remember 90? You don't remember Janice? Johnny Boy, my father, your kid brother, and Junior's face is a blank. And then Tony says, this thing of ours and there's a glimmer in junior's eye. And he says, I was part of that. that. And Tony says, yeah, you and my father, you ran north Jersey and junior 90 says, yeah. You and my father. You ran North Jersey. And junior smiles smiles. And he says, that's a good he says, that's a good thing. And Tony walks out. What is that scene? scene? It's all embedded in that It's all embedded in that 90? And it's the, you know, it's the wisdom of of so many different faith communities. communities. It's the great It's the great question. question. Can you be a good person that does bad things or does doing bad things mean you're a bad person and Tony understands this is after Tony's broken up in the previous episode with Melfi, you be a good person that does bad things or does doing bad things mean you're a bad person? And Tony understands, this is after Tony's broken up in the previous episode with 90. Right? And MELFI, you come to realize fabulous actress. Terrible psychiatrist. Rebby Jeffrey Sachs, any relation to Johnny Sachs. No relation. Thank goodness. You'd be safe out there, and it was wonderful talking to you. And I -- Thank you. -- 90 mean that. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you very much. For for, you know, and thank you. Contest and thanks for coming on and and for all your words and 90. We appreciate it. Thank Thank you. I was, I was talking, I was talking with my study partner, I was talking I was talking with my study partner doctor 90 Luhrman about how wonderful, you know, the experience of going through the show again. With the two of you has been, it's really opened opened so many layers of meeting, and that's why that's why the show really is a classic. The definition of a classic is something that's sustains that ongoing reexamination that you go back to it and you turn it over and over and over again and gain new insights and new and new wisdom from it. And for that, we thank you. We thank you for the show, and we thank you for this for this podcast. Appreciate it very much, Rabbi. Take care. Thanks, bud. Take care yourself. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Thanks for listening. I remember new episodes are released every Monday. Really, we only got one more. No one more episode. Next Monday. Please subscribe. Forget subscribing. subscribing. We talked about We talked about that. YouTube, apple, beauty, forget that. You could follow us on Twitter, Instagram, like us on Facebook, Right now, get official Sopranos merchandise, tocca sopratos dot com to the YouTube channel. You know, Book is available. Walk up this morning whenever you get your books and that's it. Our executive produces Jeff Sussman, entire production supervised by 90. Andy. What is this What is this credit? credit? I'd never saw saw this. The entire production supervised and exclusively by Andy Bertaro. vertebra. What the fuck is What the fuck is he? He's fucking fucking? He goes out of goes out of control. This This used to be just producer. producer. Now it's entire production Now it's entire production supervised. You know you know what I think Michael? I got a 90 feeling after him being on last week that he's gonna do a podcast with him on the screen and he's gonna spill all the behind the 90 secrets. It's what the fuck he's doing. doing? I know what he's setting up know what he's setting up. Inspire production supervised by Andy Bertarom. verder. Our music was composed and performed by Elijah music was composed and performed by Elijah Hamilton. You can hear more of Elijah's music and the Banco, which Elijah and I playing together by clicking the links. On talking Sopranos dot com. Our production crew includes Thai vertices and Sierra Sheripa. Talking sprintos is a pod jam's production. It's just it, man. One more. One more to go. And we're out of here. One more. See you. Stay into the fucking dench right now.