0:00

This podcast is not sponsored by . It

0:02

does not reflect the views of the institutions

0:04

that employ us . It is solely our thoughts

0:06

and ideas , based upon our professional training

0:09

and study of the past . ["texas

0:11

History"] .

0:14

Welcome to Talking Texas History , the

0:17

podcast that explores Texas history

0:19

before and beyond the Alamo

0:21

. Not only will we talk Texas

0:23

history , we'll visit with folks who teach

0:25

it , write it , support it , and

0:28

with some who've made it And , of course , all

0:30

of us who live it and love it . I'm

0:33

Scott Sosebee And I'm Gene Preuss , and

0:35

this is Talking Texas History . ["texas

0:38

History"] . Well

0:43

, welcome to another edition of Talking Texas

0:45

History . I'm Gene Preuss .

0:47

I'm Scott Sosebee , Gene , we have a very

0:49

special guest with us today , i think , because we've

0:51

never had anybody like this before On

0:53

this . We have Gordon Williams

0:55

with us today . Gordon is a native

0:58

East Texan , so there we go . I like that

1:00

already , and he's the

1:04

studio operations manager at LUTV

1:07

, which is the campus television

1:09

station at Lamar University in

1:11

Beaumont . But more than that , i

1:14

think . Besides being an adjunct instructor there

1:16

at Lamar is he is also

1:18

an award-winning journalist

1:20

, documentary maker . He's made a number

1:22

of ones that I've seen . I've seen two

1:25

of his that were outstanding

1:27

And I should have already

1:29

logged on and seen more And we're going to

1:31

talk about making I think , making documentaries

1:33

and what that takes and how he's

1:36

presenting that as a historical

1:38

context . So , Gordon , thanks for being with us .

1:41

I greatly appreciate the invitation .

1:44

Well , we want to say congratulations , because you

1:46

just won another award , didn't

1:48

you ?

1:49

Yeah , it's definitely

1:53

unexpected And I'm still kind of wrapping my

1:55

head and heart around it , But due

1:59

to my work in telling Black history

2:01

in

2:03

the area of Beaumont and

2:05

my work at Lamar University , working

2:08

with students and such , I'm being

2:10

honored with a congressional commendation

2:12

. So this is . It's

2:16

been a lot of process And there's a lot going

2:18

on . So trying

2:20

to make sure the work gets done and the project

2:22

gets out , but also making

2:25

sure everything is in line for that event

2:28

And I'm

2:30

getting the question often

2:32

So what's next ? So also

2:34

figuring that in the process .

2:36

Well , congratulations , that's wonderful

2:39

That would have been my question . Thank

2:42

you , People may

2:45

have seen you before . You have

2:47

been a speaker at

2:49

the East Texas Historical Association

2:51

a couple of years ago And

2:53

then recently we saw you in March

2:56

in , of all places , el Paso , texas

2:58

, where you were there presenting

3:00

at the Texas State Historical Association

3:02

. So let me ask you

3:05

a question , gordon . How

3:07

did you get ? just a basic question how did

3:09

you get involved in

3:11

filmmaking ?

3:15

Growing up as a child in Cleveland , texas

3:17

, i always had a interest in television and film

3:20

and just put that curiosity of

3:22

how

3:24

does it work . So I

3:26

was always a writer and had

3:29

interest in art And that

3:32

kind of led me to go to Lamar University

3:34

back in the mid-'90s

3:36

where television

3:38

program was just coming back online . So I

3:41

kind of saw that as an opportunity to

3:43

come in and learn and

3:45

had the opportunity

3:47

to create a music video entertainment

3:49

program called G-Sharp And

3:51

that was kind of my start

3:53

into media

3:55

and broadcasting .

3:58

That's great . Yeah , i think it's

4:01

a medium And this is kind

4:03

of a comment , but I want you to comment on this

4:05

That it's so effective

4:07

for presenting historical

4:10

context . Jean and I , as historians

4:13

, we research and we write . We do it with the written

4:15

word And

4:18

when I watch this , take , for example , i

4:21

shouldn't have said example , because I'm going to say take , for The

4:23

Example , short

4:25

film that it's done about

4:28

race relations in the whole situation

4:30

. Beaumont , south Texas . How long is

4:32

that film ? We're 30 minutes . Is that what the short film

4:34

is ? I ?

4:36

think we're running right at 23 . 23 minutes

4:38

It's a short film .

4:39

So 23 minutes I

4:42

would be . What a presentation for me in a

4:44

written word at a conference . But

4:47

it captures , i mean in

4:50

those 23 minutes it captures

4:52

and encapsulates the race situation

4:55

in the South and Texas so

4:57

much And

4:59

it's so much to me more impactful

5:02

almost in the written word . I mean they

5:04

say a picture is worth 1,000 words , a moving

5:06

picture must be worth 10,000 words . So

5:09

tell us what your philosophy is that

5:11

is about documentaries

5:13

, and how come they are so impactful and

5:16

why they have become

5:18

so important to exploring the

5:20

past .

5:23

I believe that if you can

5:25

entertain and educate , so

5:28

with the example , having

5:30

the opportunity to put historical

5:32

context of the 1943

5:34

Beaumont race riot with

5:37

fictional characters that people can

5:39

relate and connect to , you're

5:43

hitting people on an emotional level

5:45

but you're also informing

5:47

them , whether they know or not

5:49

. A lot of people

5:51

were not aware of the race

5:53

riot until this project And

5:57

on the day of the commendation

5:59

is actually going to be the 80th anniversary

6:01

of the race riot here

6:04

in Beaumont . It brings

6:06

Oh really It

6:09

educates people about history And

6:12

I'm hoping it's an introduction for

6:14

them to want to go and learn more

6:16

about historical

6:18

events or , with

6:20

the Charleston Pollard documentary , learn

6:22

more about that community

6:24

or their community

6:27

, in which they grew up .

6:29

We saw that in Nacogdoches when you were there . We saw

6:31

that film with two films , I'll

6:33

just say . When it was over with , there

6:36

was applause , But you could . I

6:38

mean there was powerful

6:41

murmuring through the audience because

6:44

it had been . That's what it's coming . It

6:46

was so impactful to them And it's like wow

6:48

, we didn't know it was like this . And then the way it was presented

6:50

, It was fantastic .

6:52

You know , that's the first

6:54

way I

6:57

got to know you , gordon is somebody

7:00

I was doing some research on the

7:02

Beaumont race riot , which happened in June 15

7:04

, 1943 . So

7:07

as you said , about 80 years ago . And

7:12

it was a terrible thing

7:14

that happened at

7:16

that little , On that little kind of little island

7:18

there in Beaumont . That

7:20

started there and spread

7:23

across the city . I think the

7:25

black community was burned , some

7:28

people were killed And

7:31

I mean certainly people were terrorized

7:33

. And I think in that

7:35

little 23 minute film

7:38

and you know it's not really

7:40

a history piece , scott , it's

7:43

a drama It's about

7:45

a conflict , a moral

7:47

conflict between two

7:50

couples , one

7:53

black , one white , in

7:56

that community . And as

7:59

it's going on , the race

8:02

riot itself is really kind of a backdrop

8:04

, it's kind of the background

8:06

scene , and

8:10

in the movie itself you don't

8:12

see anything really having to do with

8:14

the riot but you see the impact

8:17

of domestic

8:19

violence

8:21

or terrorism going

8:23

on in the lives of people

8:25

who were involved there . It's so beautiful

8:28

, i

8:30

mean it's tragically beautiful , and

8:33

the way it resolves is

8:37

also so moving and

8:40

so suspenseful . So I got

8:42

to say that is , you know , in 23

8:44

minutes . It runs

8:46

the gamut of emotion . How

8:49

in the world did

8:51

you get on this topic And

8:53

how did you write this ?

8:56

So I'm eternally grateful

8:58

for my fellow producers , Wyatt

9:01

Kagle and Kenneth . We

9:05

all worked together to tell

9:07

this powerful story . So

9:10

when we initially

9:12

shared the script with

9:15

people in the community and we had a script

9:17

reading , some people felt like

9:19

the script was not violent

9:22

enough to show

9:26

what happened during the race riot . And

9:29

we're independent filmmakers , so we're

9:31

not from Hollywood . We

9:34

don't have money to burn

9:36

down buildings and have hundreds of

9:38

people in the streets . So we

9:40

had to take the

9:42

story and boil it down

9:44

to a very human

9:47

level with a

9:49

small amount of actors , with resources

9:51

we had . So the

9:54

context of the history of the race riot

9:57

was very important , but

9:59

it's that human element that was

10:01

necessary to create

10:03

that suspense and that drama And

10:06

we wanted this project to be something that people

10:08

would pause and think

10:10

about . At

10:14

screenings we've after

10:17

the screenings , it's

10:19

been difficult

10:22

discussions , powerful discussions

10:25

. People that don't

10:27

know each other are talking about

10:30

racial issues

10:32

, and to hear that

10:34

dialogue as filmmakers

10:36

we feel that that's healing and

10:39

it's important . But

10:41

again , it's also historical . People are

10:43

learning more about what

10:46

happened in the past So hopefully it

10:49

doesn't happen again in the future .

10:50

Yeah , and you know you say that the violence

10:52

of people may want it , but I

10:54

think that's why it's so powerful . In some

10:56

sense it's that hint of violence

10:59

, you know that's there that

11:02

makes it so . I think it makes

11:04

it more personal for people as well . It's

11:06

just wonderful . It's an example of

11:08

so many of the good things that you've done . I

11:11

want to ask you this question , Gordon , that you can

11:13

talk on and that it's

11:15

more poignant and it may be

11:17

getting deeper and a little bit personal , but

11:21

as an African-American man who

11:23

grew up in Southeast Texas

11:25

and East Texas and has

11:28

gone on to become an

11:30

advocate for us

11:33

, having a relation , a racial dialogue

11:35

in this nation and knowing what

11:37

you see , just tell our audience

11:39

about . I mean , we take this opportunity

11:42

. We have someone . You grew up , you lived it

11:44

, you knew these things . What

11:46

is it that you want the

11:50

white audience to know ? that

11:53

, what it was like growing

11:55

up as an African-American man in

11:57

East Texas , that there's the gulf between

11:59

us , while we don't seem to understand sometimes

12:02

. I know that might be a little deep

12:04

, but I think it's important .

12:08

I think it's a lack of communication

12:10

,

12:12

Example, with similar

12:17

concerns between the

12:21

black family and the white family , but

12:24

they are not

12:26

in that

12:28

time they would not be communicating

12:31

. But communication

12:34

leads to finding commonality When

12:38

we're able . The

12:41

fact that a group of

12:43

diverse filmmakers

12:46

, cast members came together to

12:48

make this project and then

12:51

we're

12:53

able to sit

12:55

in the theater with a diverse

12:58

group of people and talk about it

13:00

after such

13:02

a tragic event , that's

13:05

when things start happening . I

13:11

feel like my purpose is about

13:13

love and creativity for

13:16

my life and I just feel like through

13:18

creativity we

13:20

can do a lot of healing , we can do a lot of nurturing

13:22

and such With

13:25

these projects . History is

13:28

kind of the venue .

13:29

I think that's exactly right . You're right . I'd

13:32

like to say I've said this before

13:34

in public and private settings is that we've

13:36

talked for my whole life probably

13:38

and I'm older than all of us here that

13:42

we need to talk about , we

13:44

need to have a conversation about the racial

13:46

division of this nation . The

13:49

thing is we've never really had a conversation

13:51

about it because we don't know how

13:53

to converse about it . I think it's a nation

13:55

to some extent . We don't

13:57

know how . I think too many

14:01

whites just avoid the issue and

14:03

that causes that lack of communication

14:05

we're talking about . But we're going to really

14:07

have a conversation . We have to agree . We're going to have

14:09

to actually confront it head on . I

14:12

think that's what your answer says . I like that .

14:14

Well , i think it's about the at

14:17

the end of the film . It's really

14:19

about , as you're saying , two

14:22

people , two groups of people

14:24

, two couples , that

14:26

if you strip away everything

14:28

else , they see the

14:30

humanity in each other , and

14:34

I think that does a lot

14:36

to help foster

14:39

communication . So I appreciate

14:42

that . What other works

14:45

have you been doing ? I mean , that's not your

14:47

only film . You've got other works . You

14:49

also work for Lamar and you do broadcasting

14:51

with the students there and for

14:53

the university . You make films there . Tell

14:56

us a little bit about your other work .

14:58

Well , the day job is working here in the television studio

15:00

, to where I had the opportunity to help

15:02

students become

15:05

content creators . So we

15:07

have a lot of students that are currently

15:10

in graduate studies , that are currently

15:12

in local television stations here in Beaumont

15:14

And we've had a number of

15:16

others gain quite a bit of success

15:19

once leaving here . So

15:22

I don't consider myself an academic

15:24

. I've always seen myself as a creative

15:26

, good , level-of-त sittie

15:28

. This educational

15:30

aspect that I have with my life is definitely

15:33

more rewarding than

15:35

I thought it would be And

15:37

through those opportunities I've

15:40

had the opportunity to work with our students

15:42

here to do projects like

15:44

They Will Talk About Us: The

15:47

Charlton-Pollard Story to where those students

15:49

got hands-on experience

15:52

to work on a documentary . We

15:54

received a grant from ExxonMobile

15:57

and with

15:59

their help students

16:02

got paid . This is something they could put on their resumes

16:04

. And then they also get

16:06

to go to screenings

16:08

and go to the premieres

16:10

and learn more about

16:13

the production aspect

16:15

of it , kind of going from idea

16:18

to production

16:21

, post-production and then marketing

16:24

and learning

16:26

those aspects of the entire business

16:29

And then also

16:31

being educated by history . So

16:34

I mean it's what

16:36

we're doing here across several disciplines

16:39

, for students to have the opportunity

16:41

to connect with people

16:43

that are 50 to

16:45

60 years their

16:48

senior and

16:51

be just as emotional as the people

16:53

on the screen or

16:55

in front of the camera

16:57

, behind the camera , because they connect

16:59

with what's being said . That's

17:03

a powerful learning experience .

17:07

I think that's a wonderful tool And you

17:09

know I do

17:12

some work with a local studio here

17:14

in Houston And

17:17

one of the things that occurs

17:19

to me is that , aside

17:23

from a few programs I know of , there

17:26

isn't much merger

17:29

between the academic

17:31

side of history and

17:33

the creative side of something

17:36

like production . So do

17:38

you get students with

17:40

history backgrounds who are interested

17:42

in making , And

17:46

if so , how do you get them started in

17:48

documentary filmmaking ?

17:50

Well , I'm hoping projects like

17:52

this will encourage that . I

17:55

believe that there is

17:58

a gap between creatives and historians

18:00

and that

18:03

gap needs to be filled because there are stories

18:06

that need to be told And those

18:10

stories can be told by students or independent

18:12

filmmakers or larger companies . It

18:14

is just making those connections . Being

18:17

able to go to East

18:19

Texas and the Texas

18:21

State Historical Association

18:24

meeting in El Paso has been

18:26

out opening for me because

18:29

I get to learn about a new discipline But

18:33

also , being out of

18:35

it , I could see where media

18:37

or content creation can help

18:40

historians tell these

18:43

powerful stories that need to be shared .

18:45

That's exactly right , And I think that's the

18:48

beauty of this . Let's talk more about

18:50

the other one , the one on the Troughton neighborhood

18:52

, a little bit . How did that , how

18:54

the genesis of that , come up ? I even talked

18:56

I was very surprised after that

18:58

one . So we saw an actress too . I talked to a lady

19:01

that . She said that she

19:03

grew up in Beaumont . She

19:05

said, "I didn't know that about , I didn't

19:07

know that about the Charlton neighborhood and

19:10

things like that . So tell us how the genesis

19:12

of that project happened and how

19:14

that's been received .

19:16

The mobile approach to the department

19:18

. They were wanting to

19:20

give students the opportunity to learn And

19:23

the idea was proposed to do a documentary

19:25

about that

19:27

neighborhood . So within

19:31

that , myself and Jonathan Tippett

19:33

, previous co-worker

19:35

here , we started researching the

19:37

project And we

19:40

talked to maybe 30 or 40

19:42

people before we finally settled

19:44

on the eight people

19:47

that we chose

19:49

for the documentary And there

19:53

was so much information that

19:57

the amount of information

20:00

and footage that was left on the

20:02

editing floor it's

20:06

amazing . It's a

20:08

. This community

20:11

is built on education and

20:13

they thrived . they had

20:15

a lot of revenue

20:18

that stayed within the community , so

20:22

there was entertainment , there was doctors

20:25

, lawyers . It

20:27

was a Mecca for

20:29

blacks in the Southeast

20:31

Texas region Being

20:35

able to watch

20:37

people connect

20:39

with that story because

20:42

it brings about nostalgia for

20:44

their specific community , no

20:47

matter the race .

20:48

Well , i think that's very

20:51

true . One of the things about

20:54

segregation and

20:57

it wasn't just in the black community , other

20:59

communities face segregation as well

21:01

is that and of course , as

21:03

historians we teach that and that was a

21:06

time and we don't

21:08

wanna go back to that period . but at

21:10

the same time is people

21:13

made the best of their

21:15

situation , whatever their situation

21:17

was , and created

21:19

communities and businesses

21:22

and culture within

21:25

those communities

21:27

, segregated or

21:29

not . And I think

21:31

that we all I mean I

21:33

think about growing up where I

21:36

grew up in Central Texas , and

21:38

there is a lot of nostalgia there and people like

21:40

that nostalgia , people like

21:42

going back and seeing

21:44

. we

21:47

wanna call it the good old days , but

21:49

my mother always used to say that

21:52

everybody talks about the good old days and the good thing

21:54

about it was you were younger then or that

21:56

idea of nostalgia . And

22:00

Scott , at Stephen F Austin

22:03

they found

22:05

a film that was made in 1938

22:07

and reshowed

22:10

it to a lot of older people

22:12

and some of them had been in that film

22:14

as young people . It was a

22:16

film project , i think . a filmmaker

22:19

went around and to various communities

22:21

, the Chamber of Commerce , to

22:23

hype their communities . Well , this film was

22:25

lost And when it showed

22:27

up and people were talking about it . it

22:29

brought back so many memories , and

22:31

I think that's what

22:33

films like

22:35

yours do , is they help bring

22:38

about these

22:40

older patterns of living , but

22:44

it connects them to younger people through the

22:46

use of media , and I

22:49

think that's the important thing that

22:51

I saw in things like They

22:54

Will Talk About Us for example , or

22:56

is

23:00

that it brings immediacy

23:03

and relevancy to the past

23:05

, and that's what interests people .

23:08

No , i agree And I

23:11

tell students or just people all the time that

23:13

you have a phone in your pocket

23:15

, you have

23:17

a camera you can record , being

23:20

able to document history of

23:22

what's going on around you At

23:25

that moment in time . It may not be

23:27

anything but 10

23:31

, 15 , 20 years

23:33

from now or even longer

23:35

. It's going to be a signpost

23:38

for a specific time in

23:40

history And

23:42

, as creatives

23:44

, i want people to kind

23:47

of take that context in

23:49

mind . Creatives

23:51

are

23:55

making signposts for history , whether

23:57

they realize it or not , for

23:59

historians to come back and look

24:02

at a specific area ?

24:04

Yeah , you're absolutely right . We're

24:07

sitting here talking about films that we've seen and

24:09

there may be some of our audience who have not seen these

24:11

films and would like to . So do you have

24:13

an outlet that people

24:16

are listening to us and say , hey , i want to watch those . They can go to

24:18

watch these films .

24:20

The Example is currently on Amazon Prime

24:22

Video , so you can find it there . They

24:25

Will Talk About Us - we're actually still taking that

24:27

around to film festivals and have been screening

24:29

. So if

24:32

you go to our LUTV News Facebook

24:34

page , that's where we're keeping people

24:36

informed about upcoming screenings and

24:38

such , And then on Friday

24:40

, June 16th , at the LeMond University

24:43

Theater where the

24:45

foundation is happening , we're also going

24:47

to have a screening of both projects

24:50

.

24:50

Okay , great , that's good to know

24:52

. Sorry , i may absolutely know that

24:55

. So we said this

24:57

earlier in Quish Morning and Stuff and we were

24:59

talking about these fine films that you're making

25:01

. but what's next ? What are you working on

25:03

? Give us some ideas of what you're working on now . What's

25:05

your thing ? What's percolating at this point ?

25:08

Well , i'm stepping outside the historical

25:10

vein for a second . I host

25:13

a salsa event in

25:15

Beaumont called Salsa at Cotton Creek Winery

25:17

, and I've been . I was doing that for

25:20

11 and a half years , until

25:22

the pandemic . So

25:24

for two and a half years we were not . This

25:27

community that's been created was not able

25:29

to congregate or be together

25:32

. So we had our first night

25:34

back at the winery in November

25:36

2022 . So

25:39

my friends and I , we decided

25:41

to document that night And

25:45

I was not aware

25:48

of what that night meant

25:50

to people in the community , because

25:52

it was at one night a month to

25:54

where they would make sure

25:56

they had a babysitter , or it was

25:58

date night , or

26:01

it was their time to come

26:03

be social . So

26:05

I think , years

26:07

from now , like I kind of mentioned before

26:09

, it's gonna give some insight

26:12

about the pandemic and

26:14

what was lost , but

26:17

there's also a human element to

26:19

it , because during that time

26:21

, people were dealing with personal

26:24

battles of their own And they shared

26:27

that within interviews

26:29

. So dancing

26:31

is the surface level of it

26:33

, but it's

26:35

more about humanity

26:38

and the commonality . I believe

26:40

it's the most diverse night in Beaumont .

26:43

That sounds nice . I wanna watch it already

26:45

, so you better hurry up and get it finished . That

26:49

sounds great .

26:50

You can't go wrong with salsa and wine .

26:53

No , it's

26:56

a good life .

26:57

Let me ask you a question about putting together

27:00

a project . whatever project you're working

27:02

on , i , as a historian

27:04

, when I'm putting together a project

27:06

I'm sure much different from you

27:09

I do have to do a lot of background

27:11

research , do a lot of reading

27:13

, go looking for sources . But

27:15

what about putting together a film ? I

27:19

mean , they don't just put themselves together right . There's a

27:21

lot of planning and free

27:25

a lot of things that go on behind the scenes

27:27

before you get started . So what

27:29

are some of the steps you

27:32

take whenever you're working on a project

27:34

?

27:34

Well , it definitely depends on what John looks like . I don't

27:36

think it's any different than

27:39

how you would , as a historian

27:41

, start a project

27:43

. I mean , there's definitely research involved

27:46

. If it's a narrative and it's fiction , well

27:49

, i need to create these characters

27:51

. And then what

27:54

are these people like ? So sometimes

27:56

it's going to research . Okay , this person

27:58

is going to be a stockbroker . What

28:01

do stockbrokers do ? I

28:04

need to go and research and be able

28:06

to develop that character and get

28:08

an idea of how they're

28:10

going to be

28:12

within this world that I've created

28:15

More

28:17

documentary sense . It is definitely

28:19

that research and

28:22

talking to a number of people

28:24

and finding sources

28:26

and making

28:28

sure all these stories have

28:31

some connecting point

28:35

. And it's finding

28:38

all of those points and

28:40

hopefully building

28:42

a timeline or finding

28:45

that thread that connects

28:47

everything to

28:50

bring the story to life . And

28:52

it's not even getting into the

28:54

actual production aspects of finding

28:56

a crew and cameras

28:59

and making sure people are

29:01

fed during the production

29:03

and all those elements you

29:06

get to production and then , as post-production

29:08

, you want to find appropriate music

29:10

and have a good editor and it

29:13

is definitely multi-layered . If I think

29:15

about it all at

29:17

one time , i question why

29:20

I do this to myself . But

29:22

you have to break it up into research

29:24

, reproduction production

29:27

and post-production and just kind of take

29:29

it in those segments as

29:31

you're going through a project

29:34

.

29:34

Well , we've come to that time in our podcast

29:37

and we have to do the thing

29:39

, so we have to ask our question . Gordon

29:42

Scott Williams , what

29:44

do you know ?

29:46

That my life is about love and creativity

29:49

and I'm hoping , through interworking

29:51

those things , i am

29:54

able to tell powerful stories

29:56

, storytelling

29:58

. It's all about creativity

30:01

and I want to have , i

30:05

want to create content that makes people feel

30:07

good but also

30:09

causes them to think , step

30:12

outside of their box at times . Again

30:16

, to be in

30:18

a room to

30:20

where , at the beginning of screening

30:22

, you see people

30:24

kind of in their segregated

30:27

spaces or they came with just the

30:29

people that they

30:31

came with and they're all

30:33

talking , but

30:35

to go through the presentation and

30:38

show both films and have a question and

30:40

answer session , and

30:42

then you see these

30:45

people intermingling and

30:47

introducing themselves and saying , hey

30:50

, you made a really good point and

30:52

having that range of dialogue . I

30:55

think that's the power of creativity .

30:57

Well , you know what . I think you've accomplished that

30:59

. I think I've seen that in that . I think they've

31:01

accomplished it and you're doing great work . This has been fantastic

31:04

, gordon , thanks for joining us

31:06

. Hopefully we'll see

31:08

you again at one of our conferences where East

31:10

Texas meets in October I think it's 5th through

31:12

7th , as when we'll be back in Nacodotus

31:14

. So if you get the chance , make sure you come back . Thanks

31:16

, gordon . Hey , thanks a lot .

31:17

Thank you very much .

31:18

Well , do talk to you soon . .