0:00

This podcast is not sponsored by . It

0:02

does not reflect the views of the institutions

0:04

that employ us . It is solely our thoughts

0:06

and ideas , based upon our professional training

0:09

and study of the past .

0:13

Welcome to Talking Texas History , the

0:15

podcast that explores Texas history

0:18

before and beyond the Alamo

0:20

. Not only will we talk Texas

0:22

history , we'll visit with folks who teach

0:24

it , write it , support it , and

0:27

with some who've made it and , of course , all

0:29

of us who live it and love it . Welcome

0:34

to another edition of Talking Texas History . I'm

0:37

Gene Crois .

0:38

I'm Scott Sosman , gene , one of

0:40

the best things that we get on this podcast

0:42

. We get to talk to distinguished scholars and

0:44

people who work in all kinds of areas , and we

0:46

have another one here , an author and

0:49

a scholar , so why don't you introduce

0:51

our guest to everybody ?

0:53

Well , I've got to say this is a good

0:55

friend of mine and we've been friends for a long time

0:57

former boss and

1:00

now colleague and his name is

1:02

Bill Flores . Bill , welcome to Talking

1:05

Texas History .

1:06

My pleasure . Glad to be here .

1:09

So today we want to talk

1:12

a little bit about a project that

1:14

you're working on . But

1:16

before we get into that , bill

1:18

, would you tell people a little bit about yourself

1:20

? A lot of our listeners are our

1:22

colleague historians . You're not a historian

1:24

, but you've

1:27

been very active for

1:29

a long time in Chicano politics and political studies

1:31

. So tell the people a little bit

1:33

about yourself .

1:35

Yes , I was born in California

1:38

, in San Diego , and

1:40

I guess the first

1:42

time that I

1:45

got involved in anything politically

1:47

I was probably about

1:49

15 , 16 years old , maybe a little younger

1:51

. You know

1:53

, my dad was a veteran of World War II

1:55

and

1:58

he actually , you know , had

2:00

a purple heart and a broad star for

2:02

his service and a favorite . He

2:05

came home and found discrimination . It

2:08

was difficult to get a loan . It's

2:11

difficult to buy a house . My

2:15

mother and my father grew

2:17

up in segregated schools . If

2:21

you ever go to San Diego there's the old town San

2:23

Diego . It's

2:26

like many things they basically

2:29

recreated , sort of what the old town would have looked

2:31

like . Well , they do have a school

2:33

there and that was a school my dad attended

2:35

but

2:38

they don't have is the sign saying

2:40

it was a segregated Mexican only school , because

2:43

that's the way it worked . My

2:47

mom there's a

2:50

documentary that PBS made on . It's called the

2:52

Lemon Grove Incident and she actually went to the school that later

2:54

split and then they

2:56

had a Mexican only school that was basically

2:58

in a barn . So

3:01

you know , that's the reality

3:03

that many people faced in Texas , california and elsewhere

3:05

. And

3:08

when I was in my early teens

3:12

we saw that we felt discrimination several

3:15

times and there was a

3:17

law that was passed

3:19

. But it took a lot of

3:21

community effort basically to stop

3:23

the discrimination and

3:29

I think that's the reason

3:31

why we're so much more involved in this

3:33

Basically to stop the

3:36

discrimination

3:38

in housing , and this was before

3:40

federal legislation , and so California

3:44

passed that law . There was a referendum

3:47

to pass it and my parents

3:49

got involved . My aunt , who

3:51

was very involved in politics

3:54

in Los Angeles . She

3:56

urged us to participate and

3:59

so I started going around

4:01

neighborhoods and stores to get signature

4:04

site . That was my first really

4:07

thought about politics

4:09

. I didn't know anything about the political system , I

4:13

just was doing it because my parents were , and

4:17

we had grown up as a family that was

4:19

not really not

4:22

in poverty but lower

4:24

middle class and

4:27

did what we could for

4:29

others . We went to church every

4:31

week . Every Sunday we

4:33

gather food , we put together

4:35

packages to give to people that were less fortunate

4:38

than ourselves , and so I learned

4:40

a lot about

4:42

that . There were always people

4:44

that were poorer than us and

4:47

I wondered why , and

4:50

so when I went to

4:52

college , that

4:55

was always behind my head . I

4:57

wasn't a major

4:59

in politics , I was

5:01

a major , actually , in healthcare . I

5:04

was going to be a doctor , partly

5:06

because I wanted to serve underserved

5:09

communities . Anyway , I

5:12

ended up getting involved in

5:14

local politics in Los Angeles . My

5:17

first book when I was part of a

5:19

still an undergraduate

5:22

I was part

5:24

of a research team and we

5:26

wrote a book about the

5:28

politics of

5:30

the non incorporated

5:33

Los Angeles and the and

5:35

all the different communities .

5:37

Somewhere . That was when you were an undergraduate .

5:39

Yes , I came out when

5:42

I was in the my

5:45

master , as I was working on my master's degree

5:47

at Stanford .

5:48

Well , dr Forrest , you know you've done

5:50

a lot of things in your academic career and you talked

5:52

about getting started as an undergraduate , but you didn't

5:54

tell us you rose to a pinnacle as

5:56

an academic career . So why don't you tell us a little

5:58

bit about your career as an academic and

6:01

what you've done and what positions you've held

6:03

?

6:04

Yeah , I , you know I ended up getting going

6:07

into a doctoral program at Stanford

6:10

. I didn't go

6:12

to . I mean , I went into the doctoral program and

6:15

with the intention of getting a PhD

6:17

in political science . There was some

6:19

struggles in the political science department

6:22

Because of conflicts

6:24

that take place in

6:26

an academic disciplines . I

6:29

ended up leaving . I and several other students

6:31

ended up leaving the program for a while

6:33

and I worked

6:36

in nonprofits . I did a lot of consulting

6:39

work for a while and

6:41

I ran a couple nonprofits and then

6:43

, after running a health center

6:46

, I decided

6:48

to go back and get my PhD . And

6:51

you know the clock was ticking . You

6:53

have 10 years to get a PhD

6:56

. I asked for the extension Just

6:59

before that clock ended . Anyway

7:01

, I got my PhD in at

7:03

Stanford in a combination of political

7:05

science and public

7:08

policy , and so my PhD

7:10

is in social theory and public policy , I read

7:13

. I worked at a center

7:15

, a research center , the Center for Chicano

7:18

Research at Stanford , and

7:20

I ran some research

7:22

programs . Then I went to Fresno

7:24

State . Actually

7:27

, as before that , I was teaching

7:30

at a Catholic University . Over

7:32

time I began

7:35

not only doing research that was

7:37

, community action oriented

7:39

but in addition being

7:42

an administrator , I became an

7:44

assistant dean at Fresno State

7:46

. I'd run a research center there

7:51

as well and then

7:53

I became dean at Cal State , Northridge

7:57

Provost at New Mexico State

7:59

. I was Secretary , Deputy

8:01

Secretary for Higher Education for

8:04

the State of New Mexico and then and

8:06

then President at the University of Houston downtown

8:09

, and since then I've been at Antioch University

8:11

and back at UHD

8:13

teaching political science nonprofit

8:16

management and Russia .

8:18

Houston drew you back in and I was spend time at Fresno

8:20

. That means you and I and Gene actually

8:22

had something in common there , because I have a friend of mine

8:25

that he's from California , he's from

8:27

the Bay Area , so he's biased and he told

8:29

me . He said you know what Fresno is ? The love of

8:31

California .

8:35

Is that a compliment ?

8:38

I don't know , california

8:42

has a huge agricultural area

8:44

in the Central Valley and some

8:46

of it is very conservative . I

8:49

did a lot of research on water

8:51

rights and also

8:54

on pesticides and

8:56

the influence of the floating

8:58

pesticides into the air

9:00

and into the land and water

9:03

, and the communities that were affected by

9:05

them tried to do work that would help

9:07

those .

9:09

People don't understand California . Is you know

9:11

they what they think of California they

9:13

actually only know about ? You know 2%

9:16

of the state of California and I think it's all like

9:18

that , don't they ? Yeah , yeah .

9:20

Bill . So one of

9:22

the things that I want to talk about today

9:25

and the reason we asked you to be

9:27

on the show you

9:29

got a new political

9:32

science government textbook

9:34

for college classes and

9:36

it's called the Texas Experiment Politics

9:39

, power and Social Transformation

9:41

. It's published by CQ

9:43

Press , which is Sage Publications , one

9:46

of their imprints . So

9:48

tell us a little bit about why

9:50

you thought Texas

9:52

needed another

9:54

government textbook .

9:57

Well , you know , there are

9:59

plenty of government textbooks and some of

10:01

them are very good . Each has a lot

10:03

of strengths and some weaknesses

10:05

. But you know , I

10:07

hadn't taught Texas politics

10:09

. I was getting

10:11

my syllabus together in my

10:13

course , but I had been teaching

10:15

American politics at

10:18

UHD for a while , and so

10:20

I asked students who were taking the

10:22

American Politics course if

10:25

they had taken the Texas Politics course

10:27

. I really wanted their reaction

10:29

and some of them just said , oh

10:31

, that course , you know , it's awful

10:33

, it's boring . We've studied

10:36

government in high school . Why

10:38

do we have to take this course ? And

10:41

then I'd ask well , what do you think about the textbook ? Same

10:44

thing it's boring . And

10:46

so , okay . Well , what makes it boring ? What

10:48

doesn't talk about anything useful and it makes

10:50

us feel less powerful

10:53

or less able to do

10:55

anything . And

10:57

so you know

11:00

, with that in mind , I began

11:02

building a course

11:04

that would really

11:07

address the issues but

11:10

get students engaged

11:12

early on , including

11:14

having them find

11:17

out who represents them , going

11:20

to local meetings , any of a number

11:22

of activities that are right . From the

11:24

beginning , they could begin

11:27

to understand that they

11:29

have some power , even

11:31

though they may feel it's just

11:33

one vote . There are many elections

11:36

in

11:38

the country that one vote is

11:40

all it takes , and in fact there have been cases

11:42

in Texas where

11:44

the ultimate person who was elected

11:47

the city council or mayor . It

11:49

was a flip of a coin because they'd hold two

11:51

or three elections and it'd be tied

11:53

over and over again if they had small populations

11:55

. So one vote does make

11:58

a difference , and it

12:00

was that experience , and

12:02

also because Sage contacted me to

12:05

do a review of a book that

12:07

they were doing , and I started to do that

12:09

and they said we love the way you

12:11

write and we've read a net couple of

12:14

one of the other books that you wrote just recently

12:17

on democracy and America

12:19

in American civic engagement

12:21

, and we'd like you to write a book

12:23

on Texas . And so that's how the

12:26

project began .

12:27

Well , that's amazing when you talk about politics

12:30

in Texas too , and as a

12:32

someone who studies politics and

12:34

now it's politics in Texas , let me ask you a question

12:36

about maybe the

12:38

future or what's gonna happen in Texas politics

12:41

. What's your take on it ? Particularly

12:44

the Latino vote in Texas . That's

12:47

gonna be the big difference in this

12:49

state going forward . They're

12:51

now a plurality in the state , and

12:53

I think both political parties are

12:56

going to at least make the attempts to compete

12:58

for Latino votes . So how

13:00

do you see Texas politics ? Let's say , if you

13:02

had a crystal ball , in years

13:04

from now let's 20 , you know , 34

13:07

, is Texas politics going to

13:09

continue on the same arc that

13:11

it is now ? Is there gonna be a sea change ? What's

13:13

gonna happen ?

13:14

Well , that was one of the questions that would come up

13:16

in my courses , and so I

13:19

thought it was important in the 13th chapter

13:21

of the book and , by the way , gene has

13:23

written the first chapter on Texas

13:26

history , and so he's a

13:28

part of the project , and I wanna thank Eugene

13:30

for those contributions but

13:32

one of the things that students would

13:34

ask is what is the future gonna look like ? So

13:37

actually , I started the book about

13:40

thinking about what is the future

13:43

going to look like and , as a

13:45

matter of fact , when we were writing it , it

13:47

was in the middle of some

13:49

of the elections

13:51

, and

13:54

so we begin to see that

13:57

, first of all , the

13:59

no community

14:01

is actually homogeneous . Not

14:05

all whites vote the same way , not all blacks

14:07

vote the same way and not all Latinos

14:09

vote the same way , but the Latino

14:12

population is very diverse . It's like

14:14

the Asian population . We tend to say

14:16

Asians and then we lump

14:18

everybody in it , whether they came from

14:20

Pakistan or China or the Philippines

14:23

or whatever else . Reality

14:25

of it is is people have different historical

14:27

experiences . Those that

14:30

were born here and lived

14:32

here for a long time may have different

14:34

views than if they came from Fiddlewell or from

14:36

Venezuela , and

14:39

also class background makes a difference . If

14:41

they came here and faced discrimination

14:44

, and maybe

14:46

their parents faced discrimination , they'll

14:49

have a different political outlook than

14:51

those who may have come from the South American country

14:53

and very , very wealthy

14:56

, so

14:58

you have to take that into consideration . Not

15:00

everybody's going to vote the same , however

15:03

. We have a

15:05

very uneven

15:07

distribution of wealth in this country

15:10

and it

15:12

is state . Texas

15:14

likes to

15:16

say it's the center

15:19

of economic development . Well , that's

15:21

not always true . It's

15:24

. Certainly we have had a

15:26

lot of people move here from other states

15:28

, but I think the Latino population

15:30

it's growing , it's

15:33

younger , it has real

15:35

needs for education , for healthcare

15:38

. This Texas as

15:42

a state ranks

15:44

45th in the nation in

15:47

a lot of and in some cases 48th

15:49

in such areas of healthcare

15:51

, child welfare , many

15:54

other things . When you

15:56

look at the proportion of

15:59

children without insurance , texas

16:02

is one of the worst , and

16:05

the Latino population is

16:07

even worse than that in terms of the percentage

16:09

of Latinos that don't have health insurance

16:11

. When

16:14

you look at public education the

16:17

kids that are going to

16:20

schools that are dilapidated , deteriorated

16:23

, that don't have

16:25

equipment in their laboratories

16:28

, things like that they tend to be

16:30

Latino and black , and

16:32

so we're going into a situation that's not

16:34

a good thing for the state , where

16:37

the future of the population that

16:41

is going to be the majority of the state and

16:44

is already the plurality of it are

16:48

not getting the education or the healthcare

16:50

or the housing or the other

16:52

things that they should and

16:54

, as a consequence , people

16:57

vote very much based

16:59

on their interests . You're

17:01

going to see the state become more purple

17:03

and probably , down the road , more

17:06

blue Democracy

17:08

. The change in democracy is not destiny

17:11

, but it certainly pushes

17:13

a lot and

17:16

influences how people will , and I think

17:18

that our

17:20

current leaders in the state are

17:23

very worried . They're worried about

17:25

losing power and

17:27

you see them grabbing

17:29

it and holding onto

17:31

it as fiercely as they can . Redistricting

17:35

, reapportioning , passing

17:38

laws to restrict

17:40

voting . Long

17:42

term , that's better people , that's

17:44

a great answer .

17:45

Yeah , that is a great answer and I

17:48

mean I think you're right . All

17:50

of that are Topics

17:52

and you cover in the book and you know , you

17:55

and I and Scott , we've

17:57

all written books , we're all professors . A lot

17:59

of times people say you know , you

18:01

professor should not be Assigning

18:04

books that you wrote because of ethical

18:06

reasons or something . What do you

18:08

say when people criticize

18:11

academics for assigning their

18:13

own book ?

18:14

I just felt that a lot of the books

18:16

Really we're not dealing

18:18

with issues that students wanted

18:20

to hear and we're asking me about

18:23

. And so you know , I think when

18:25

any of us Teach

18:27

a course , we bring in

18:29

and build the course based

18:32

not only on the requirements that the

18:34

department sets but also on on

18:36

based on our strengths

18:39

and based on the , the

18:43

issues that are important to us . And

18:45

so when you do

18:47

that , you become an expert

18:50

in that area and you

18:52

know you figure , well , I'll arrange

18:54

the book differently . That

18:57

that I've been using or I'll focus

18:59

on and I'll bring in supplemental . And

19:01

after a while you bring in so many supplemental

19:03

things , you figure I might as well write a book

19:06

. I've doing that right

19:08

now to book , because

19:10

I've been teaching strategic planning for a while

19:12

and I use different books and then neither

19:14

one of which I'm really that happy about

19:16

. So I'm writing a book for

19:19

nonprofits as well as for students on

19:22

that

19:24

. It will be called non-profit management hitting

19:26

your target , moving

19:28

your nonprofit from where you are to where

19:30

you want to be . And again , that's

19:33

not because I'm

19:35

interested in making money .

19:39

You know Lots

19:43

of lots of hours .

19:44

So A

19:47

project for , for you know

19:49

, selling mysteries , you know it's

19:52

a project for love of Of

19:55

your subject , but also

19:57

because you want to try and share a perspective

19:59

that they will help and that

20:01

students will respond to .

20:02

Yeah , we have a lot of listeners

20:04

that are educational professionals and Professors

20:07

, and then Jean and I someone I've

20:09

been a co-author part of an American history textbook

20:12

. I also assigned that textbook

20:14

, by the way and also Jean

20:16

and I are currently putting together a Texas

20:18

history textbook or at least we're supposed

20:20

to be . We're not working in it is Should

20:25

be . But as someone who's done this

20:27

, why don't you share with us what

20:29

do you think's the biggest challenge for

20:31

putting a textbook together and what

20:33

should authors or other textbooks think

20:35

about before they take on that job ?

20:37

Well , you have to understand that

20:39

it's a negotiation process

20:42

. First , you know , you may

20:44

have an image of what you're going to do

20:46

and in a book and

20:48

the publisher has another image and it's

20:51

a negotiation with them and also

20:54

they edit too and and they're

20:56

they're thinking about the

20:58

market because they want to sell

21:00

as many textbooks as possible , but

21:03

also they bring up always Good

21:06

points about . You know

21:08

I'll have you thought about this , or you know

21:10

here's something you might consider . In you , ultimately

21:13

, you're the author and

21:16

you make decisions based

21:18

on what you think . All right , but they

21:20

also understand that's

21:22

that sometimes you know you

21:24

need things you haven't thought about , like discussion

21:27

questions , learning outcomes

21:29

. You know Out

21:33

of points that they can be used

21:35

for the book when

21:37

faculty lecture , all of those kinds

21:40

of things . So it there's

21:42

a lot involved in writing a book and

21:44

you go through many , many drafts

21:46

and redrafts Before you have

21:49

a final chapter of it you know

21:51

, then gets published and you work on selecting

21:53

. You know , just like building

21:56

the graphs yourself or charts yourself , I'm

21:59

working with someone to do that , picking

22:01

the the photographs from from

22:03

A company

22:06

that they have a contract with , etc . So

22:09

don't just write it and think

22:11

, oh , I'm gonna get rich because that's not

22:13

the purpose . The

22:19

other is no , it's

22:21

, it's going to take time

22:23

, you know . And the other

22:25

thing is , when you deal with a publisher , it's hurry

22:28

up in a way . You send one thing

22:30

and a month goes by and you haven't heard anything

22:32

, sometimes two months , and then suddenly okay , well

22:34

, here's , here's our edits , and can

22:36

you get this done by Tuesday ? You know

22:39

it's monday , well

22:41

, tuesday of next week will be okay , but

22:43

you know , and usually that's

22:46

right in the middle of midterms , of finals and the

22:48

papers , or two or something . So

22:50

these are the kinds of things that you

22:52

have to understand . It's

22:55

a balance between what

22:57

you want to do and what the publisher

22:59

needs , and also you're

23:01

trying to balance it with with the other

23:03

demands of teaching , the other courses

23:06

you have in grading papers and the

23:08

main thing that we do as not .

23:12

So , bill , since you know you were talking

23:14

at the beginning about your career

23:17

in California and whatnot

23:19

in new mexico , so when you came

23:21

to texas and you're teaching these texas political

23:24

science courses , is

23:26

there something about texas politics

23:29

that you have found Interesting

23:32

? And the other question is what

23:34

do students find most interesting

23:37

? That that surprises them ?

23:40

Well , I think Texas

23:44

is interesting in many different

23:46

ways , not just because it is a more

23:48

conservative state . I think that's true across

23:52

the electorate

23:55

. Certainly it's more conservative than California

23:57

, but California has very conservative

23:59

elements as well . Same thing in New York . I

24:02

didn't mention that . I was a senior

24:04

fellow at the Rockefeller

24:07

Foundation for a while . But

24:10

one of the things that happens

24:13

is that , because

24:17

of the nature of

24:20

both California and Texas , one

24:22

party is

24:25

in charge of triumvirate . They

24:27

have the governor , they have the

24:29

head of the Senate and

24:33

they control the House . And when

24:35

you have that , you're able to

24:37

pass any legislation . Well

24:40

, the problem is that if

24:42

you don't have a check on it , then

24:45

what happens is the extremes

24:47

start coming in the plot and

24:50

you see that sometimes in California on

24:52

the left , you see that sometimes in Texas

24:54

on the right . Certainly a lot in Texas

24:57

right now , and that's

24:59

a very conservative element , particularly

25:01

those pushing for

25:04

more support

25:06

for private schools and parochial

25:09

schools , say , with vouchers . So

25:13

, based on the culture

25:15

and based on the political climate

25:17

, you get very different states

25:19

, very different

25:22

bills that they pass . In California , new

25:24

York , they tend to pass

25:26

things that like taxation

25:29

and also more

25:31

education . They

25:33

also very interested in climate

25:36

change . Here in Texas , the

25:39

view of those in power is there is no climate

25:42

change or if there is , we can't do anything

25:44

about it anyway . So let's you know

25:47

. And , more importantly , jobs matter

25:49

more than people sell . So

25:52

you know , let's make sure we have

25:54

jobs , even if it means somebody

25:56

down right next to that plant

25:58

is suffering and high

26:00

cancer . And

26:03

I'm not being facetious here . You

26:06

know we get extremes

26:08

and I think that

26:10

that's one of the hardest things for students

26:12

, because they feel

26:15

that their voice is not being

26:17

heard , that they

26:19

can't do anything to change the system

26:21

. Texas doesn't have a referendum

26:24

. You know , you cannot

26:26

get something on the ballot by

26:29

, as you can in California or in New

26:32

York with a petition , and

26:35

, as a consequence , you have to go to your legislator , and your

26:37

legislator may be in the , in the

26:39

party that doesn't have power . People

26:42

just feel and right now cities

26:44

are for the most part controlled by Democrats

26:47

to say , legislative , the governor

26:49

, the current general , are

26:51

we all Republicans and

26:53

so they are passing legislation

26:56

that is really restricting

26:59

the ability of

27:01

those like the mayors and the

27:04

and the judges to enact

27:06

the measures that that are healthy

27:09

for for their community , and

27:11

that's a difficult situation . You

27:14

know , if you look to the future

27:16

, 80%

27:18

, well , 74% of

27:21

the entire state's population will

27:23

be in the triangle , the

27:25

urban triangle , and

27:28

you know that's Houston , dallas

27:31

, san Antonio . You know all

27:33

that area 80%

27:35

. It's amazing . Yeah , we're all

27:38

the power .

27:40

It's amazing and you say extremes and I think that

27:42

you know that's

27:44

such a pression statement because just here

27:46

in town , in Nacogdoches , is a small city

27:48

, it's a rural area Republicans

27:51

dominate things . Right now we

27:53

are having a vicious , vicious

27:55

election fight in the Republican

27:57

primary for our house seat

28:00

because and it's all in it

28:02

basically it's this run to see who can be

28:04

most to the right in this in

28:06

our , in our current house speaker

28:08

, I know and I like he's being challenged

28:11

by a challenger and his

28:13

challenger accuses him of being a Marxist

28:15

, leftist and it's all this . I

28:17

mean it's vitriolic and it's airing

28:19

people apart . It's utterly . Texas

28:22

politics has always been a

28:25

full context , sport in

28:27

the arena , but it seems to be continuing and

28:29

maybe getting worse , maybe because the stakes

28:31

are higher . I don't know that . That

28:33

that could be . When you look in

28:36

the future about that . You know students

28:38

. You say students and young people when they

28:40

come and that's one of the things in your classes

28:42

and we're all teaching young people . When you

28:44

have young people in your classes that you're teaching

28:46

, and when you teach them about politics , we talk about politics

28:49

and you alluded to some of this . Tell

28:51

us , tell our audience about , what students

28:54

find the biggest surprises about

28:57

your textbook and in your classes . What

28:59

surprises them ? Maybe they do something they don't know

29:01

.

29:02

Well , I think what surprises them is that

29:04

they're so

29:06

loot , their legislation is

29:08

constantly being passed , or

29:10

decisions that are made without

29:13

public input , or that when

29:15

public input takes place , it's

29:17

ignored . Text dot

29:20

is infamous for that . You

29:22

know they're going to build a freeway and doesn't

29:24

matter what communities they make it

29:26

on . That tends to be poor

29:29

and minority communities , but

29:33

so is you

29:35

know . You have situated the CCQ

29:37

. You know the environmental

29:40

quality commission or

29:43

the railroad commission , the same thing public utilities

29:45

commission . They enact legislation

29:48

that is favorable to companies and

29:51

sometimes they pass rules basically

29:54

making it impossible for

29:56

people to even have a public hearing

29:59

, and unfortunately

30:02

, that really surprises

30:04

students , but it also

30:07

makes them angry and they want to

30:09

do something about it , especially if they

30:11

live in those neighborhoods where they've seen

30:13

for years , just , you

30:15

know , terrible things going on

30:17

in terms of , you know , environmental

30:20

impact . Sometimes their

30:22

family members or neighbors have

30:24

cancer , leukemia , or

30:27

you know a child was born

30:29

, you know , with some kind of defect

30:31

because of the environmental

30:34

impact that has been

30:36

created and rules and laws ignored

30:38

. I think that's the biggest

30:40

surprise .

30:41

That's right and it's you know , we all do this . We

30:43

all see students , and we've all done this for a long time

30:45

. I'm seeing students I think you hit

30:48

on something really good . They're seeing and they're angry . I'm

30:50

seeing students now more

30:52

attuned to being activists

30:54

yes , and I did in 15

30:56

years ago and they're wanting

30:58

to go out and do things like that . So so , yeah

31:00

, I think we may have some surprises coming up

31:02

, absolutely .

31:04

That's , by the way , why we have in every

31:06

chapter what you can do

31:08

at the end of the chapter , because

31:11

you don't want students just to be frustrated

31:13

or feel disempowered

31:16

, but to have a pathway so

31:18

they know what they can do to make a difference

31:21

.

31:21

Bill , I've got something on this show . We

31:23

like to ask our guests what

31:27

do you know ? And so

31:29

Bill Flores , what

31:31

do you know ?

31:32

I'll tell you that one thing that

31:35

I know is

31:39

that all changes started with just

31:42

a small group of people and

31:45

who have said , oh no , we're

31:47

going to do something about it . And I

31:49

encourage students to

31:52

not just get angry

31:54

or not just put a post on

31:56

your social media site

31:58

, but to actually get involved

32:01

, because they're the future of this

32:03

state . And

32:05

I tell you , when you think about it , in 2050

32:09

, maybe you're 22 right now Well

32:12

, just think you're going to be in your late

32:14

40s or 50s . In

32:16

the next few decades , you're going to have own

32:19

a house , you're going to have children , maybe even grandchildren

32:21

. Is that ? What future

32:23

do you want for your children

32:26

and your grandchildren ? Because you're the

32:28

ones that are going to make that future . So

32:31

don't sit on the sidelines and vote , but

32:34

don't just vote . Make change

32:36

.

32:37

I hope they take that message to heart . This

32:39

has been great , bill . We could sit

32:42

here and talk about all these things forever because it's a

32:44

great conversation . Well , thank

32:46

you for being here . I get to

32:48

Houston quite often . Next time I get down

32:50

there , what we'll do ? We'll all get together

32:52

, we'll go out to eat and we'll make Jean pay . How

32:54

about that ? That'd be wonderful Look

32:57

forward to it . It's been telling everybody that I'm

32:59

spending Jean's money here the last week or two

33:01

, like you would have later .

33:03

So all the residuals from that book , right ?

33:06

That's right . Maybe

33:09

we can buy a drink with it . That's right

33:11

. That's right . But thank you very

33:13

much .

33:14

It's been very informative and I'm going to be one of our better

33:16

episodes .

33:17

I can tell you right now . Well , thank you so much

33:19

. It has been a pleasure , bill , thank you very

33:21

much . Thank you very much . All right , bye . Thank

33:24

you for being here , lisa .