0:11

A guest on the podcast today is a dear

0:14

friend of mine. We've been talking about this for,

0:16

I don't know, Babo, how long, two,

0:18

two and a half, three

0:18

years now. Somewhere around there.

0:20

Yes. While not, not to throw any

0:23

shade, except I'm going to, I don't think I've been

0:25

the person to hold up here, but I'm just going to say it. I'm

0:27

going to leave it at that. And that's the last, that's the last trash

0:29

talking I'll do for the next five minutes.

0:30

Wow. Way to get

0:33

started. All right.

0:35

Well, my, my guest today is

0:37

the delightful and incredible

0:39

Babo. She

0:41

is an executive. Life and

0:43

leadership coach. She is a workshop facilitator.

0:46

She's a speaker, soon to

0:48

be podcaster, author,

0:51

all sorts of amazing things. And just a

0:53

wonderful human being. I can't wait for you all to get to

0:55

know a little bit more about her. Like I've gotten to know her

0:58

over the last thing, four years now. Baba,

1:00

welcome. I'm so glad we're finally here, here,

1:03

near the getting near the end of October, 2023. We're

1:06

making it happen. We always make it happen in some way.

1:09

We do indeed. There is one thing I

1:11

have to let you know, because. My

1:14

Nigerian people will kill me. It

1:16

is

1:19

Iwa. Ooh, yes. Ooh,

1:21

yeah. Well, say it again for

1:23

us. But it's, it's, but there

1:25

are different pronunciations,

1:27

but Iwa. And

1:31

there we go, making them see, I throw

1:33

shade at you and then, and I make a fool of myself

1:36

and here we are, this, this, this seems about

1:38

right for the way this podcast is going to get started. I

1:40

apologize. I mean, this

1:42

is our partnership, isn't

1:43

it? This is our, this is our partnership. That's

1:45

why we have fun. So Babo, I

1:47

thought what we would do today is they

1:50

start by sharing a little bit about

1:53

your journey, and you mentioned that you're Nigerian

1:55

by descent. And that

1:57

there's, there's some things there you're in New York

1:59

city now. And you've

2:02

been on a real personal development journey over

2:04

the last, probably seven, I think it's been about

2:06

seven years, if I'm not mistaken, six or seven years, maybe

2:08

even longer. And I'd love if you would

2:10

just share a little bit about what's led you today

2:12

to being a very successful coach,

2:14

facilitating really powerful spaces,

2:17

creating retreats all over the world

2:19

and all that. So what's led you to sitting here today

2:21

with us? And then we're going to talk about. Some of

2:23

the ways that you think about the

2:25

various ways that you go out to

2:28

the world to make an impact.

2:31

Yeah, I think what led

2:33

me here is a

2:37

combination of personal

2:39

and professional experiences from young. I

2:42

have to say, this all

2:44

started when I was about six years old.

2:47

My dad was a psychiatrist. Working

2:49

at Rikers Island and

2:51

he would come home so spooked sometimes

2:56

and he would, he would and you

2:58

know, I was in the Catholic school, so,

3:00

you know, I had my little blue and white

3:02

uniform that I thought was so

3:04

cute. And, you know, all the kids were like,

3:06

yeah, my little skirt is so cute. My

3:09

dad was like, yeah. But

3:11

stay in the house because it's

3:13

little girls like you that go outside

3:16

and then rapists see you. And then that's

3:18

it. And I'm like, Oh, but

3:21

I'm six dad, why

3:24

would in where my

3:26

dad would pull these things from started

3:29

pretty early because I was like, this doesn't make

3:31

sense. Yeah. I'm glad I always had that.

3:34

level of curiosity in

3:36

my mind to try to figure out where all

3:38

of the fear was coming from. And

3:41

fear was the name of my household on

3:44

my dad's side. Anyway, my dad grew up

3:46

during wartime in

3:49

Nigeria and he, he experienced

3:51

a number of things and of course

3:54

he brought that into my household.

3:57

As you know, generational trauma and impact

4:00

generational trauma. My mom as well,

4:02

she was a microbiologist and an actress,

4:05

but she grew up in the South and she brought

4:07

a ton of her trauma with her as well

4:09

and all the generational impact. And

4:11

my parents brought that into the household. And

4:14

for some reason, I've always

4:16

been gifted with this lens to

4:19

see people's fear. Especially

4:23

because my parents raised me in such a way

4:25

that I had so much access to

4:28

creativity and imagination.

4:30

And I was like, well, the life

4:33

you keep telling me I should fear isn't

4:35

the one I'm living in this very

4:37

moment. So I don't

4:39

know. Something's up. That's

4:41

how it all started.

4:42

Oh yeah. Thank you. I mean, well,

4:44

I have a question. I have a lot of questions,

4:46

but I think the question that popped up first for me

4:48

was what was, do you remember

4:51

that, what that experience was like for you as a child?

4:54

With that, it sounds like a cognitive dissonance

4:56

between my parents are telling me this.

4:58

I'm experiencing this. What was that like for you

5:00

as a child? And I'm selfishly asking.

5:02

This is somebody who has an almost 8 year old and

5:05

it's a very influential time. Yeah.

5:07

Like, do you remember that? What that was like for you?

5:10

Of course, yes. So it

5:12

was quite confusing

5:15

because, and

5:17

I've been, I don't know, a lot of people

5:19

call it woke, but I think I've been awake

5:22

since I was a kid because

5:24

of the Extreme

5:26

differences in all of the things

5:28

that my parents told me I should

5:31

fear and the life I was

5:33

living, because, you know, I was in private Catholic

5:35

school in Staten Island.

5:37

My friends were extremely

5:39

wealthy. My family was middle

5:42

class at the time, and my friends

5:44

had mansions that took up a whole

5:46

block. So I'm like, well, this,

5:49

this experience that you're telling me

5:51

that I should have of like and I was

5:53

a cheerleader. I was a gymnast. I

5:56

was all these things. And my dad will be like, don't wear

5:58

a skirt. So short walking down the

6:00

street, you're going to get kidnapped or raped.

6:03

And, and I would have all of these hyper

6:05

vigilant. Experiences

6:07

from my parents of like, don't go outside, don't

6:09

do this, don't do that. And feeling

6:12

torn. I remember feeling torn inside

6:14

because I'm like, no, but

6:18

I have a great time at school

6:20

and Santa Claus comes to see me

6:22

at school and I have

6:24

a 50 bill in my pocket and all

6:27

the candy that I want. So

6:30

my experience of life is good,

6:32

but the experience that you're telling me is one

6:35

that I should be afraid of. Yeah,

6:38

it's so interesting, constantly feeling torn

6:41

and, you know, part of, so

6:43

I'm also a social worker for the listeners.

6:46

I, my master's degrees in social

6:48

work and part of. Part

6:51

of development when you look

6:53

at it is finding your identity, kids

6:55

have to find their identity. It's really a preteen

6:58

teen time, but

7:00

kids must find their own identity. So

7:02

we have the course identity, the identity

7:04

that we're technically born

7:07

into, and then our chosen

7:09

ID identity that's based

7:11

on. Our influences, who

7:13

we want to be, what we feel, et cetera.

7:16

And so navigating, I always,

7:19

because I grew into that at such

7:21

a young age, by the time I was

7:23

a preteen teenager, I was already

7:25

like, Hey, I know who I am. I'm

7:27

the help. I'm the person who talks everyone

7:30

else. Out of their story

7:32

of how the world is unsafe

7:35

and how we should always be hyper vigilant

7:38

because it's not the life I'm living and

7:40

I really want you all to feel something

7:42

different too. So at a very young

7:44

age, that was the story I was telling to everyone

7:46

around me.

7:47

Yeah. So it sounds like you compensated

7:51

in a, in a powerful way for what you

7:54

didn't, like you, you created

7:56

a a mechanism

7:58

for having the experience you want outside

8:00

of, well, it's because as a child,

8:03

yes, your parents are going to be likely the most influenced,

8:05

influential piece, but you created a, you

8:07

created a mechanism to experience something different

8:10

for yourself. How did your parents

8:12

respond to that?

8:15

What did my dad say? I think my dad

8:17

said the same thing. Men say to me, now,

8:20

you live in a bubble

8:24

You're like, you're walking around. You're just like, everybody's my

8:26

dad.

8:28

Pretty much. Why all

8:31

you people wanna burst my bubble?

8:34

Yeah. No, that is, it's funny.

8:37

I think this is something that you and I, you and I share

8:39

is we're, I

8:41

would say you and I are both like realists,

8:43

but we're also on the very positive side.

8:46

Like, I'm like, oh, why are you so happy? I'm like. Can

8:49

I not just actually be satisfied

8:51

and content and happy? Can we just actually

8:53

have fun?

8:55

And, you know, it's funny because throughout

8:58

my trials and tribulations to become the

9:00

coach, the person that I am today,

9:03

I struggled. Like,

9:06

I shouldn't have been as happy as

9:08

I was. At one point, I

9:10

remember I was going to D. C.

9:13

To continue my professional

9:16

training and development,

9:19

and I remember needing to share a

9:21

plate of food with my colleagues,

9:23

or share a hotel room, or

9:26

take the Greyhound, and so,

9:28

to the listeners, nothing's against, nothing's,

9:30

nothing's against those who don't. Thank you. Who

9:33

enjoy taking the Greyhound is

9:35

just like at

9:37

that time, I had to take a six

9:40

hour bus five, six

9:42

hour bus once a month

9:45

to, well, twice a month to go and

9:47

to come back to go do this training.

9:49

And I really didn't have the money. I was still building

9:51

my coaching practice and I came

9:53

in from working in social work

9:55

where my clients. money,

9:59

they had government assistance or they

10:01

were middle class families. You don't really

10:03

see well to do

10:05

people engaging in the social

10:08

services system, in the welfare system.

10:11

So the families that I was working with really didn't

10:13

have access. And that was

10:15

my network at the time. But back

10:17

then I was doing

10:20

a pro I was participating in things

10:23

that. required

10:26

a large amount of expenses to

10:29

be poured out. I barely had

10:31

it. I was still working as a social worker. So

10:34

I'm making maybe 40,

10:36

000 in one job, which

10:38

is insufficient. I

10:40

mean, I live in New York. I

10:42

have nothing else to say about that. I live

10:44

in New York. And even on top of

10:46

that, working additional 20, 20

10:49

hours a week in another

10:51

social work job, just

10:53

to add on more money on top

10:55

of building my coaching practice. I

10:57

was struggling. My family, my mom

11:00

was misdiagnosed with my, with MS at

11:02

the time, multiple sclerosis, my

11:04

little brother was sick. My little brother

11:07

is severely autistic. My

11:09

family was going through all these mental health

11:11

breakdowns. We had a fire

11:13

in my house. Everything

11:16

that could have gone wrong

11:18

was going wrong. And

11:21

everyone who knew what was going

11:23

on in my life at that time was like, Hey.

11:26

You're crazy. Hey, why

11:29

are you even here? I would never be

11:31

here. Why are you, why

11:33

are you trying to get

11:36

your life together? I'd be in shambles.

11:40

And for me, it was just like, well,

11:43

one, I'm just a happy person.

11:45

I like, I, it's just who

11:48

I am at my core. I don't give up

11:50

at my core. There exists so much possibility

11:54

that I can't, it's just not who I am.

11:56

And on top of that. What else

11:58

am I going to do but grow

12:00

from here? Yeah,

12:03

and people just couldn't understand it.

12:05

Yeah, that's a tough one for a lot of people is the growth

12:07

mindset and not letting your experiences

12:10

define you. That's what I hear. And

12:14

the, unfortunately,

12:17

my experience is a lot of people just

12:19

don't understand. They, they, they can't get there themselves.

12:22

And, and, and you know this better than I do. You're, like

12:24

I said, you're, you have a master's in social work. You do

12:26

that work. You do a lot of coaching work. So you know that some

12:28

people, some people have a, what

12:30

I would say is a therapeutic walk. So Bayba, I think this

12:32

is an interesting topic around

12:35

being the way we would, we're trained in the same

12:38

coaching process. We call it being at cause for what

12:40

you want. I think the more

12:42

normal non jargony way would be like, just own,

12:44

like own, be responsible for what

12:46

it is that you want. Now,

12:49

I will say, I think there are some people that have therapeutic

12:51

blocks to doing that, for sure. I

12:53

look at some, some people in my family. And

12:56

then a lot of other people just don't, they literally don't know how.

12:59

Because that's from family of origin story

13:02

or all that. And

13:05

I want to go back here to, to

13:07

talk about. Oh, I'm

13:09

really curious. I've never asked you this before. Was

13:11

it a pretty much foregone conclusion what you

13:13

were going to do once you left high

13:16

school in terms of your, your next education?

13:18

Were you, you were going to go into some sort of people?

13:22

Absolutely

13:23

not. First and foremost, when

13:28

I was in high

13:31

school, I wanted to go into tech. I

13:33

was a tech nerd, the

13:36

nerd sign was my hand sign.

13:38

I was like, I belong

13:41

in robotics,

13:43

robotics. Nice.

13:46

That is where I wanted to go. But to

13:48

be quite honest, so my dad is also,

13:51

he's a Columbia grad, but he's a Harvard medical

13:53

doctor. And my dad's like, if

13:55

you're not going to Ivy league, you

13:57

must go to Ivy league. If you're not going to Ivy league,

13:59

you have to stay in New York. Because,

14:01

you know, continue on with the hypervigilance

14:04

and the trauma that you never dealt with. And,

14:07

you know, I'm in my rebellious teenage

14:10

years of like, listen, man,

14:13

I, I'm not going to Harvard.

14:15

So you couldn't, so you can have that check

14:17

box. I'm not doing it. But at

14:19

the same time, I was like, I should go to Harvard so I

14:21

can get out of here. But I

14:24

had, I ended up not even applying.

14:27

I applied for St.

14:29

John's, Morgan State, Harvard,

14:32

and oh my god, there's another

14:35

college up in

14:37

New York and I forgot the name of it

14:40

that I got another full ride to, but

14:42

Morgan State had given me A

14:45

full ride into their

14:47

MBA program, St. John's gave

14:50

me a half ride straight into their law

14:52

program. I had a, I

14:54

had all these full ride opportunities.

14:57

And then my backup school was

14:59

CUNY John Jay. You

15:02

didn't apply to Ivy league, so you must

15:04

go to John Jay. Like they didn't even give

15:06

me a scholarship. I was like, I'll pay

15:08

for it. What?

15:12

How ridiculous! But

15:15

at the time, at

15:17

the time, I wasn't I

15:20

was on the cusp of rebellion, but

15:23

I wasn't rebellious. Because I was too

15:25

concerned about all those risks that

15:27

my parents kept playing in my mind. Yeah.

15:30

It kept saying to me as a child that kept playing in my

15:32

mind. So honestly, I went to, I went

15:34

to John Jay. I studied psychology,

15:36

of course, I followed my father's

15:39

footsteps, but I needed

15:41

some type of balance. So I went into theater

15:43

arts. Because I kept living

15:46

my life in this hypervigilant

15:48

state in high school. I was

15:50

also a peer counselor and I

15:52

ran my, I partially ran my mom's,

15:54

one of my mom's businesses. And

15:56

so I was always helping other teens

15:59

who were experiencing rape, who received

16:01

all these STIs and all

16:03

had, we're having all these experiences. So

16:06

I was like, Whoa, you guys are having so

16:08

many experiences out there. I don't want that.

16:11

And so it's more evidence for me

16:13

to keep living this hypervigilant

16:15

life. Yeah.

16:16

Yeah. So you did that

16:19

you went through your educational program.

16:21

You came up with a social work degree. Let's

16:23

talk about coaching because that's how you and

16:25

I know each other. That's how we met. How

16:28

did you end up deciding

16:31

to go into coaching?

16:34

So, at the time, the

16:36

The The Organization that

16:38

I was working with started to implement

16:41

more coaching concepts inside

16:43

of the social work delivery,

16:46

like our methodology for providing

16:48

services. So I was doing in home therapeutic

16:51

work, and at the time I was taking trainings

16:53

on coaching on coaching,

16:56

and I attended this

16:58

one training and I got

17:00

to experience coaching from this

17:02

place of. More access to

17:05

possibility, more access to

17:07

change. And that was the thing that I felt like was

17:09

missing in social work. I kept working

17:11

with families who had to

17:13

work with me, but they didn't need,

17:15

they didn't want to work with me.

17:18

So it was only, yes, sure. I had

17:20

a great success rate with families, but

17:23

we didn't act, they didn't volunteer

17:26

to do the work. And we all know that

17:28

if you're actually committed to doing something,

17:30

you're more likely to continue

17:32

to do it. Yeah. And coaching

17:35

seemed like the access point for

17:37

working with people who actually wanted

17:39

to do the work. And, to be

17:41

quite honest with you. The

17:43

pay rate was so much better. What?

17:47

It was. Yeah? It was. What?

17:50

I mean, the tuition fees were way higher. As

17:53

well. What?

17:55

And here

17:56

we are. The, the, the potential, the

17:58

potential was there.

18:00

Yeah, so you've been studying.

18:04

You've been studying the human mind and the human heart

18:06

for as long as you sounds like

18:08

for as long as you've been Alive pretty

18:10

much

18:12

pretty much because I used to sit up and I

18:14

actually used to sit up and open my dad's med

18:17

school Books and just look at them

18:19

and draw in the human

18:21

anatomy and I would just color over the human

18:23

in that Like

18:25

a five year old I don't know why I don't

18:27

ask me what was going on.

18:30

We'll go, we'll go, we'll get a therapist

18:32

in here to dig into that one deeply

18:34

into that one. You're like, I just want to know like what's inside

18:36

of them. So now, so

18:38

now you've been, you've been doing the

18:41

sort of work you left social work. You're doing purely

18:43

in running your own business. I know you do a

18:45

lot of partnerships with some really great

18:47

firms and such. One of the reasons I wanted

18:49

to have you on is to, to talk

18:51

about. And have

18:53

the audience glean some wisdom about how you design

18:55

experiences. I

18:57

know you do a lot of experiential work. I think one of the reasons

19:00

you and I get along, we have a, you know, we've done some

19:02

personality assessments. I think we're both extroverts.

19:04

We're both similar and like disc assessments

19:06

and such have similar. I think we have similar

19:08

CliftonStrengths. So I'm always really

19:10

interested in people that. Like to create

19:13

group experiences. And I know part of the reason you

19:15

do it, Babo one, it's a fun

19:17

way to do business, but you also genuinely enjoy

19:19

it. And you see, there are a lot of, there

19:21

are a lot of, I

19:24

know a lot of people who are like, I need to do group programs

19:26

or retreats or something. They don't

19:28

like it, but they have to, it's

19:30

like a half too. And I know you genuinely love. And

19:33

it shows in the level of care and love you put into

19:35

it. So love to hear, I

19:37

know you've put on some, you've put on some retreats.

19:40

You have one coming up soon. I think you're

19:42

taking some folks to Africa here sometime

19:45

in the near future. You're taking some people, I

19:47

believe, to Puerto Rico. I'm really interested

19:49

to hear when you put

19:51

together an experience. For

19:53

folks and your experiences are high

19:55

end because that's the kind of people you like to work with and

19:58

I'm not talking about like, can they afford it? I'm talking

20:00

about they are willing to do the work. You're

20:02

willing to go deep. They're willing to be coachable.

20:05

What kind of things do you think about when

20:07

you start to plan these or when you put events together?

20:10

So I, with every

20:13

experience that I curate. I

20:16

start with the

20:20

outcome, but the intention

20:22

of all my retreats is to have people leave

20:24

with a specific experience.

20:27

And so it's a culmination

20:29

of whether it be

20:31

a well, being specific.

20:34

intention or it's like,

20:36

Hey, I really want us to play. I

20:39

want us to have more fun

20:41

in the wild outdoors. I

20:43

want you to have more fun than you ever have

20:46

in the past few years. That's

20:48

cool. While also doing the

20:51

in depth, internal work, or

20:53

having the intimate group conversations.

20:55

But outside of that, what goes into

20:58

it is like a meat of luxury,

21:01

amazing cooking, and

21:04

gotta do the food. You gotta have good food.

21:06

Yeah. In any event, it's like, yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

21:10

That's why we call

21:10

it The Playground. Yeah. So, right.

21:12

And that's, and that's your brand as you call it The Playground.

21:16

As you're thinking about the,

21:18

the overall experience, when

21:20

you're thinking about the work you're going to do together,

21:23

I think one of the things that you do well, that a

21:26

lot of people, it's kind of hard to understand

21:29

what for, other than I'd like to go and

21:31

hang out with some people in Puerto Rico or South Africa.

21:35

How do you have people understand,

21:38

because I know you do, I know you do fun work, but there's

21:40

also emotional work. And like, there's. Potentially

21:43

prompts that have people get emotional in a positive way.

21:45

It's all, it's all like self development work. How

21:47

do you, how do you help people to understand

21:49

what they're doing? Because

21:52

even if you can easily afford it, every, if

21:54

you can easily afford it, I would also say you have a limited amount

21:56

of time, usually. Yep.

21:59

So how do you have people go, okay,

22:01

not only am I willing to pay for this, but.

22:04

I'm willing to invest my time and my emotional

22:06

energy into it because it's

22:08

important. So, like, I'd love to hear more

22:10

about what you do there.

22:13

So, there

22:15

is a bit of an extensive process

22:18

leading up to the retreat. Where

22:20

you are meeting with myself

22:23

or my team to have

22:25

conversations about what

22:28

you want to create on this retreat.

22:30

Like, what is your intention in attending?

22:33

Because sure, I have my intentions, but I also

22:35

want to know yours. What is it that you want

22:37

to get out of this experience? How

22:39

do you want this to go for you? So

22:41

it's really what we're digging into

22:43

all of that. And on the first day,

22:46

when you touch down, part of

22:48

the experience is to meet one to

22:50

one with one of the coaches on the team

22:52

and have a conversation in person

22:55

about what you're creating and how you're

22:57

going to slow down to be in the

22:59

moment. Cause part of it, for some

23:01

people, The whole, like

23:03

for some of the executives that come on these retreats,

23:06

some of their whole reason

23:09

for being there is can I slow down

23:11

enough to actually even be here to

23:14

be present in this moment and

23:16

their whole, their whole

23:18

intention for the experience is, Hey,

23:20

can I be connected? Can I be connected?

23:23

Can I be here? I don't know what

23:25

takes me out. What can

23:27

I be with

23:30

that is I didn't think

23:32

about that so they're they're in they're

23:34

proving to themselves Like

23:36

can they actually do it? That's really

23:39

interesting. That's really interesting

23:42

Curious when you people

23:45

opt in time energy

23:47

money Have

23:50

you had anybody just

23:52

not be able to do it, not be able to

23:55

take the time off or they're just resistant

23:57

to what's happening in the room once? And

23:59

like, how do you address that as the

24:02

kind of leader of this? I think that's an important thing

24:05

because we know that from a business

24:07

building perspective, those are your best salespeople.

24:10

People that go and have a great experience or not

24:13

that you're having, but people that come have an

24:15

amazing experience with you are going to be the people that are

24:17

then going to go say, had this amazing experience. You should do

24:19

it as well. How do you address

24:21

it? And I've had, I had this happen

24:23

to me recently. It was in a training when

24:25

you have somebody. Detractor

24:29

to the room is the way I would put it, a detractor

24:32

to the room. I know you and I have been in rooms together

24:34

where we have that happens to me sometimes,

24:37

and I'm sure this happens on retreats as well, even though people

24:39

have opted in there, they're like they're detractor or

24:41

they're, they want to play the role of challenger.

24:44

Cause I think a lot of the executives that you work with, that's

24:46

what they do all day, but constantly challenging

24:48

the status quo. So like, this is all I know how

24:50

to do. How do you, how do you address that to

24:52

make sure that you're keeping an eye on the rest of

24:54

the room, that everybody else is getting the experience that they

24:56

want.

24:59

Well, you know, it's funny enough, part

25:01

of why people hire me to

25:03

begin with is the

25:05

way that I deliver feedback.

25:09

It is the way that I can

25:11

get in there, meet people where they

25:14

are and say the thing that they need to

25:16

hear. And so of course, you know, I've

25:18

had leaders show up to some of my,

25:20

my retreats with like a four computer set

25:22

up and I'm like,

25:25

okay, we'll wait for you. You're

25:28

going to wait for me. We're

25:30

going to wait for you. We're all

25:32

going to sit here and wait for you. Oh, that's

25:34

fun. People are actually waiting for you

25:37

in your life. They're waiting for you

25:39

to close up shop to be with you. But

25:41

now we're intentionally doing it on loudspeaker

25:44

and we're going to sit here and watch you and wait.

25:47

Oh boy. I can imagine that would elicit

25:49

a variety of responses for people.

25:51

1, 000%. But they

25:53

get to be with it, right? And that's

25:55

it. It's experiential work

25:58

where you get to be face to face with

26:00

yourself. Okay.

26:02

And to be quite honest, like a lot of the

26:04

leaders and people who can

26:06

attend my retreat can afford

26:09

to do like a 40,

26:12

000 trip somewhere, 80, 000

26:14

trip somewhere. Although that's not all my retreat. Retreat

26:17

Costco, but although

26:19

they can afford those stuff, those things,

26:21

they might attend and

26:24

never actually be there.

26:26

They might walk away from those environments

26:30

and still feel burnt out. Disconnected

26:33

and potentially can't even remember what they were doing

26:36

there. Yeah. So

26:39

my retreats give access to

26:41

really being connected and also

26:43

being with your other self. And it's all

26:46

about a choice, right? For me, it's all

26:48

about choice. So I invite

26:50

you, you can come sit down at today's workshop

26:52

or tomorrow's workshop and be here,

26:55

but do you want to, you have

26:57

permission. This is a choice.

26:59

Everything, every piece of my retreat.

27:02

Has a question mark on it for you. Are

27:04

you in or out?

27:07

And if they're, and if they're in

27:10

the expectation is they're in, and if they need to be

27:12

out because folks

27:15

are out for a variety of reasons, I'm, I'm out sometimes

27:17

too, like family, family

27:20

significant other, other

27:22

responsibilities. Like that's actually quite normal.

27:25

I mean, that's completely normal. When you talk about

27:27

anybody who works in a business, they're going to be

27:29

out sometimes. So

27:31

what I'm hearing there, I think one of the great, one

27:34

of the things I see you do extremely well

27:36

is invitation,

27:39

not expectation, which

27:42

is, which is hard

27:45

for people because

27:47

in a business context, in your job, it's

27:49

not really an invitation. It's

27:51

a straight up expectation. We're

27:54

paying you to do this and you're doing this and the

27:56

ability to create that space. I'm

27:59

just, and I'm processing this, processing this now, cause we've never

28:01

had this conversation this way. But the

28:04

thing is. What, what do you do when you're

28:06

just invited, but you're not expected? How

28:08

do you show up? What do you do? Cause

28:10

you self selected to be here. Yeah.

28:12

And you're like, Oh yeah. Like you

28:14

said, Oh, cause being at present with

28:16

your family at home is an invitation, not an, I mean,

28:19

kind of an expectation, but sort

28:22

of not in some ways. Because we've

28:24

set that expectation for our loved ones. Or

28:27

if you're, if you're single or you're dating, like,

28:29

what's that? Like, are you on your phone the whole time?

28:31

If you're with your friends or you're like

28:33

all the other places that we play or, and most

28:35

importantly for yourself, I

28:39

think for ourselves, it's always an invitation while

28:41

we, I think we relate to it. I know for

28:43

me, I'll speak just for myself. A

28:45

lot of it, it feels like expectation, but it's actually

28:47

just an invitation.

28:49

And that's the part that I was going to get

28:52

to also think

28:55

in for all the listeners out there. This

28:57

is a challenge for you all as well.

29:00

What how would life be

29:02

if everything was an invitation,

29:05

if you had the ability to create everything

29:07

into an invitation? And that's a

29:09

lot of the work that I do in my workshops and

29:11

retreat. It's giving people access

29:14

to choice. So when you

29:16

can choose, then you can

29:18

create and however it goes,

29:20

you get to own it because you're

29:22

deciding. So imagine,

29:25

and it's an opportunity to

29:28

just simply look at everything

29:30

from a place of, okay, I

29:32

get to choose. This is an invitation.

29:35

And it's arguable, but

29:39

how you show up at a job is

29:41

an invitation because you can show up a number

29:43

of ways.

29:47

You can show up in a lot of different ways in a job,

29:49

and you can arguably do Get

29:52

the same results, but it's a matter of how do

29:55

you have the people around you feel

29:58

and how are you walking away from that experience

30:01

because you can, you can, there are certain, there

30:03

are some people and I share this all the time, but

30:06

I know some CEOs and

30:08

C suite leaders who work like a

30:10

60 and some entrepreneurs

30:13

and owners of small businesses who

30:15

work like 60, 70, 80 hour

30:17

weeks, but they're like, I love my

30:20

life. Totally. Some

30:22

people that work 20 hours a week and they're like,

30:24

everything sounds totally, this was a horrible

30:26

experience. Oh my God.

30:28

Oh yeah. Exactly. All perception.

30:30

This is, yeah. This is a whole

30:33

man. This is a whole nother podcast here. What you're saying

30:35

now about this hustle

30:38

culture or the not hustle culture

30:40

or the Mm-Hmm Find the thing

30:42

you love because then you work 20 hours

30:44

a week or 10 hours and you're on a beach.

30:46

I'm like, I call bullshit on all

30:48

of it. Like, I think this is where

30:51

I think most people I know and that

30:53

I work with and that you work with, if they love it,

30:55

I, if they're like, Hey, I worked 75

30:57

hours. I'm like, did you like it? And they're like, yeah, I loved it. Did

31:00

you feel like you gave up anything, especially if

31:02

people are single, like they don't have, like, then they're, they

31:04

don't, they don't actually need to be present at home with

31:06

a significant other or children. Like, I'm

31:08

like, you do you, did you really enjoy

31:10

it? Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Great. Like there's things

31:12

that I know that I do, I could do all day long.

31:15

I could work 20 hours a day and it'd be fulfilling. I think

31:17

you probably feel the same way. There's certain

31:19

things that, that if I said, Hey Babo today, you're going to

31:21

spend 18 hours and you're going to work, but

31:24

it's going to be these specific things. You'd be like, that

31:26

sounds great because they're like people

31:28

with high motors and there's other people that they

31:30

just don't have that engine or they don't care. And that's totally

31:32

fine too. So

31:35

what, as we wrap up for now, what

31:39

for people listening that hear

31:41

all of this, I

31:44

know the response that I get all the time

31:47

and I'm going to assert is probably what you get as well as this

31:49

all sounds so nice. But

31:52

I have a lot of expectations on me. I may

31:54

be the breadwinner, my

31:57

husband or my wife, my partner, my kids,

31:59

like church. So

32:02

many expectations and quite frankly,

32:05

and I'm speaking for myself, it doesn't feel like a choice

32:07

sometimes. What

32:09

would you say to what, I mean, I know you have

32:11

this conversation all the time, what would you say for

32:14

those in the audience that you're not coaching? And they're just

32:16

in a one way conversation with us right now and listening,

32:18

like, yeah, it sounds great, but I don't feel like I have a choice.

32:21

What would you, what do you want them to know?

32:24

Mm,

32:26

well, I, I, there's a part of me that would simply

32:28

challenge them on when they gave up their right

32:31

to choose Mm-Hmm. Because

32:35

at some point they threw

32:37

in the white flag and they said, Hey, this

32:40

is no longer up to me. And

32:43

so I would invite them to

32:45

check in on when that moment was and

32:48

just reflect on it. 'cause there's

32:50

something about giving, giving it up

32:52

and surrendering choice and just feeling

32:55

stuck in who you have to be.

32:59

That, that is something where there's a

33:01

lot in that space, in

33:03

that moment, there's a lot of awareness that can be

33:05

built and knowledge that can be

33:07

found and from it, you may

33:09

have access to choice again. And

33:13

for those people, I also say, ah, you

33:15

should hire a coach. Yeah,

33:18

well, right. I mean, I think that whether

33:21

or not you hire a coach or therapist or go to

33:23

a retreat or like. Any of

33:25

these things for most of us, and I know you

33:27

and I are, we're in the mix

33:29

with people who have done a lot of work on

33:31

themselves and continue to, so

33:34

it's almost like, in

33:37

my experience with this is a little like living

33:39

in New York city, we're like, well, everybody makes

33:41

six figure a lot of people make six figures.

33:43

You're like, yeah, but if you go out there as a country, he's like, that's a

33:45

lot of, it's not a lot of money in New York.

33:47

It's just that simple. As a matter of fact,

33:49

I believe the city, okay. determines that above

33:52

below like 130, 000 household income

33:54

is considered middle income. That's how

33:56

they like the apartment, how they subsidize apartments, which

33:58

is kind of nuts

34:00

because in where I'm from in Minnesota,

34:02

that's quite a bit of money. But

34:05

but I, I'm, I'm speaking for myself here. The

34:09

being surrounded by people and doing this work and coaching

34:11

people and being coaches, I get a little insulated.

34:13

I'm like, Oh, everybody thinks this way, but the truth is, most people

34:15

don't get

34:17

that. I never

34:20

expect. I never

34:22

put an all on perspective.

34:25

Because everyone's perspective is

34:27

different, and perspective

34:31

creates our personal truth. And

34:33

so whatever I could, I

34:35

mean here, I'd be like, Oh my god,

34:38

if I'm not making 300, 000,

34:40

I'm poor. And then my friends

34:42

will be like, you're not, you

34:47

know, they're, they're magazines that have come

34:50

out that are like, Hey, if

34:52

you don't make 220,

34:54

000 in a household hard

34:56

to live in New York City without,

34:59

just period. Yeah. And that

35:01

was two, three, four years ago, right?

35:03

This was pre pandemic. These

35:05

articles were populating. And so now

35:08

when we look at the time we're living

35:10

in, the inflation costs,

35:13

the price of real estate, how everything

35:15

has just increased. Come

35:19

on. But again, perspective

35:21

is everything because some people don't even care

35:23

about all these things. That's true. Yeah.

35:26

Yeah, no, it's all about perspective and I, and I

35:28

was, and I was saying that not from challenging you, but

35:30

more from a not

35:32

challenging you at all, but more like speaking to myself

35:34

about feeling a little insulated around just

35:37

being in this space of, oh,

35:40

this feels nice. And you and

35:42

I have tools and I'm

35:44

not perfect at this. I know you

35:46

have your days. I have my days. And

35:50

the thing about hiring a coach, a therapist, going

35:52

to a workshop or something is that

35:54

everything you just talked about is really hard

35:57

to do by yourself near almost

35:59

impossible. My ex, my experience

36:01

of my life, just speaking for

36:03

just me. And as somebody who's

36:05

coached a lot of people as well

36:07

is what you just mentioned to see something

36:09

different or get possibility to do

36:11

it by yourself is almost impossible. At

36:14

least that's my experience. Yeah. You need an external

36:17

force on you. Because

36:19

it's just too, it's too easy

36:21

to stay up and I'm pointing at my head right now. It's

36:24

just too easy to stay up there and

36:26

the blind spots are everywhere.

36:30

Absolutely. I, you know what,

36:32

some folks don't hire coaches

36:34

because they're suck or want to move something

36:36

forward. Some folks really

36:39

just benefit from having a coach

36:41

to just say the things that they just

36:43

said back to them, because

36:46

sometimes we just can't hear ourselves,

36:49

or we're in some contradictory

36:51

place where the things that we're saying

36:54

aren't landing. The way

36:56

we expected them to. And

36:59

so that's the benefit of even, and

37:02

it doesn't have to be a professional

37:04

support structure. That's even the benefit

37:06

of being vulnerable enough to share

37:08

your inner thoughts with someone else, period.

37:11

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

37:13

I love that too. For those like, Hey. Whatever

37:16

reason they're not going to do that. Yeah. Just the idea of like

37:18

opening up and saying, Hey, like, this is actually the narrow, like

37:21

knowing the narrative that runs in your own head,

37:23

like the, what's the, what's

37:25

the game you're always running on yourself and just being

37:28

able to even express that is so

37:30

powerful. Babo,

37:32

we're going to, we're going to need to do part two of this soon.

37:35

Cause as everybody listening, you can tell Babo's got

37:37

a ton of knowledge. It's why we made this happen.

37:40

You've got some cool stuff coming up. Let's talk

37:42

about. To wrap up just for today,

37:44

people want to connect with you, learn more and

37:47

anything specific you want people to know. Sure,

37:50

sure. Well, so first and foremost,

37:53

I have an event happening November

37:55

4th and 5th called Sabotage and

37:57

Stealing. That is happening

37:59

in Flatiron in New York

38:02

City. It is going to be a great experience.

38:05

We have a spoken word artist coming in.

38:07

We, we just, we're going to have a great time.

38:09

There will be dancing, laughter, tears,

38:12

and enjoyment, because that's just who I am

38:14

and that's how I play.

38:15

And, and, and maybe in that order, maybe not.

38:20

Maybe not. But that's

38:22

happening. So if anyone's interested,

38:24

you can check that out on my website,

38:27

exact playground. com.

38:30

We'll throw that in the notes as well. And

38:32

we'll throw that in the notes as well. Yes,

38:34

please do. Or christianencode. com.

38:36

So that's happening. South Africa's in March

38:39

and we're going to Portugal in

38:41

June and a million other places.

38:44

So just sign up for my

38:46

newsletter. Enjoying

38:48

fun.

38:49

Awesome, Babo. So glad to

38:51

have you on. We're going to continue this here soon.

38:54

I know you have some big announcements about what's next

38:56

for you and what you're putting out

38:58

there and

39:01

just want to thank you so much for being on and

39:03

look forward to coming back on

39:05

again. Thank you everyone listening.

39:07

Thank you everyone listening.

39:09

Yes. Thanks, Babo. Keep up the good

39:11

work within and the good work you're doing for humanity.

39:13

Really appreciate it.