0:13

From Vision Australia. This is talking

0:15

vision. And

0:18

now here's your host, Sam

0:20

Colley.

0:23

Hello everyone. It's great to be here with

0:25

you. And for the next half hour

0:27

we talk matters of blindness and low

0:30

vision.

0:30

We firmly believe that the blind

0:32

innovation community should be afforded the same

0:35

level of health care that a sighted

0:37

individual is afforded, and

0:39

it is simply unacceptable to deny

0:41

the rights of a blind and low vision individual

0:43

in independently and privately conducting

0:46

a self-administered medical test, the

0:48

same way that a sighted person would.

0:50

Welcome to the program. This

0:52

week I catch up with William Chen

0:55

from the Inclusive Technologies

0:57

team at Monash University.

0:59

He's currently developing a

1:01

mobile health care app for users

1:04

who are blind or have low vision, and

1:06

he's seeking expressions of interest for

1:08

people to take part in

1:11

some tests to evaluate the

1:13

app and improve the user

1:15

experience. That

1:17

interview is coming up very

1:19

shortly, so make sure to stick around

1:21

to hear from William. And then

1:23

after my chat with William, Steph

1:26

from comes back with a

1:28

Vision Australia comms wrap to give

1:30

us an overview of what's

1:32

coming up in the organisation around

1:34

the country over the next month.

1:37

I hope you'll enjoy this week's

1:39

episode of Talking Vision.

1:46

William Chen is an undergraduate

1:48

student from the Inclusive Technologies

1:51

team at Monash University.

1:53

He's in his final year of studies

1:55

at Monash, and as part of his research

1:58

programme, he is exploring the

2:00

independence, trust and privacy

2:02

of individuals who are blind

2:04

or have low vision towards digital

2:07

health. Mobile apps, including

2:09

the thia mobile app, which is

2:11

currently in development and seeking

2:14

input from users who are blind

2:16

or have low vision in a series

2:18

of evaluation tests.

2:20

And to have a chat with me

2:22

all about the app. I'm very

2:25

pleased to be able to welcome William right

2:27

now. William, welcome to

2:29

Talking Vision. Thanks so much for your time.

2:32

Thank you for having me here, Sam. It's my.

2:33

Pleasure. Could you tell us a little

2:35

bit more about the mobile

2:38

app that you have developed as part of the

2:40

Inclusive Technologies team at Monash?

2:42

Yes, of course. So this app

2:44

is called Theia, named after the Greek

2:47

goddess of vision and sight. And

2:50

that was designed to

2:52

help the blind and low vision community

2:54

in independently conducting

2:57

a self-administered medical

2:59

test, as well as being able

3:01

to independently interpret

3:03

its results without the involvement

3:05

of a site and individual in the process.

3:08

What sparked your interest in creating

3:10

this health care app, specifically

3:12

with the blind and low vision community

3:15

in mind?

3:16

That's a great question, Sam. So I'd say

3:18

the main thing is equitable health care.

3:20

So here, Monash, we really heard

3:22

the voices of frustration from

3:24

the blind innovation community around

3:26

the inaccessibility of Covid rapid antigen

3:29

tests during our last pandemic.

3:31

And we thought something must be done for all

3:33

current and future pandemics to prevent

3:35

what a blind and low vision individual had

3:38

to go through in order to conduct

3:40

and interpret their self test results.

3:43

We firmly believe that the blind

3:45

innovation community should be afforded the same

3:47

level of health care that a sighted

3:49

individual is afforded, and

3:51

it is simply unacceptable to deny

3:53

the rights of a blind and low vision individual

3:56

in independently and privately conducting

3:58

a self-administered medical test the

4:00

same way that a sighted person would. So

4:03

the app started with Professor

4:05

Patrick Cohen, who is the professor of

4:07

neurology at the Alfred Hospital,

4:09

coming into contact with my supervisor,

4:12

Associate Professor Matthew Butler, who

4:14

is an accessibility researcher from the

4:17

Inclusive Technologies Lab. And

4:19

Matt came to talk to me about the project,

4:21

and I was extremely interested

4:23

and hooked on to it. And things

4:26

kind of took off from there, where I worked on

4:28

it for an entire summer last year and

4:30

carried it into this year, where we had the pleasure

4:33

of inviting two additional researchers

4:35

onto the team. So Doctor

4:37

Anuradha and Doctor Omar

4:39

and Anuradha Omar both

4:41

have an interest in designing inclusive

4:44

applications. And with this amazing

4:46

team we have formed and we applied

4:48

for a seed grant from the Monash Institute

4:51

of Medical Engineering, and we managed

4:53

to receive $30,000 in funding.

4:55

Now, though, it is not a lot of money, it is

4:57

enough for us to kick start things and begin

4:59

a process of potentially releasing this

5:01

application to the public.

5:03

And will now's probably a good

5:05

time to give the listeners

5:08

a little bit of a recap of

5:10

the tests that the app currently

5:12

supports, but also looking

5:15

ahead to the future.

5:17

What are the future

5:19

plans for tyre in including

5:22

further tests for people to

5:24

be able to use?

5:25

That's a great question. Thank you Sam. So

5:28

currently the application

5:30

only supports Covid rapid

5:32

antigen tests. It is

5:34

a proof of concept to see whether ideas

5:37

and design philosophies are indeed aligned

5:40

with the blind location community. Now

5:42

we plan on including

5:44

every single medical self-test that the

5:46

TGA has approved and is on

5:48

the market for Australian consumers. And

5:51

on top of that, we also plan on including

5:53

at home health screening kits such

5:55

as bowel cancer screening kits or breast

5:57

cancer screening kits, etc. and

6:00

overall, we expect to

6:02

include all of these tests

6:04

within our application within

6:07

the next year or two of releasing the application

6:09

to the public.

6:10

And William, what are the plans

6:12

to roll out there to the general

6:14

public?

6:15

This is actually a very, very important question.

6:17

So we recognise that there

6:20

is an application that

6:22

will interpret the test results

6:24

of a self-administered medical test,

6:27

which means that it will be

6:29

regulated by the Therapeutic Goods Administration

6:32

in Australia. So there will be

6:34

quite a lengthy process in us

6:36

getting regulatory approval. But

6:38

it is definitely in our radar. And

6:41

after we get TGA approval,

6:43

that will be when we can expect

6:45

the. To be available for the public.

6:47

And, um, in terms of how

6:49

people interpret these results

6:52

and what sort of info they can obtain

6:54

from the app, what sort of

6:56

the process there, and what are the accessibility

7:00

components that people can look forward

7:02

to if they are using this app?

7:04

Yeah. So currently

7:07

there will launch

7:09

the phone's camera and automatically

7:11

begin detecting a test within

7:13

the frame. So the first

7:16

step would be having the app understand

7:18

what test a user is taking. So

7:21

the Apple either attempt to recognize the

7:23

packaging or the barcode. And from that

7:25

point onwards, we've actually translated

7:27

all the instructions from the manufacturer

7:30

into accessible formats, because we realize

7:32

that a lot of those instructions actually relied

7:34

on graphical aids.

7:36

And with the results

7:39

section, the app will launch the phone's

7:41

camera, and once it detects a

7:43

test within the camera's frame,

7:45

it will then decide whether the current frame is

7:47

clear enough for it to take a photo, and

7:49

then it repeats this process 60 times

7:51

per second automatically, and will capture

7:54

a total of 50 clear images of the test.

7:56

And I guess this was one of the main accessibility

7:59

components that we have within our app, because

8:01

we recognize how difficult it is to

8:03

take a photo of a rapid antigen

8:05

test, or having to make sure that your camera

8:08

is clear before you take the photo, which

8:10

is all. We've automated the process with a

8:12

couple of algorithms that we come up

8:14

with, and after the 50 clear

8:16

images are taken, the apple

8:18

then select the shoppers and clear as five photos

8:20

to be passed through our own AI model,

8:22

which will then output a result with a confidence

8:25

label so people will be able to tell

8:27

what results they're getting without having to

8:29

consult with a sighted individual. Now,

8:32

on top of the AI model approach,

8:34

we have also included a share

8:37

with family or friends option, where the

8:39

app will stitch the five clear

8:41

images together, along with the manufacturer's

8:43

interpretation instructions, so

8:45

that you can share the image with anyone

8:48

that you'd like within your contact list, or any

8:50

application within your phone that

8:52

you use the message, your family or friends. And

8:55

our last option within our application

8:57

is for the user to submit

8:59

the images that the phone has taken

9:01

to a group of annotators, and

9:04

we plan on involving general practitioners

9:06

and other medical professionals in looking

9:08

at the results and then communicating the results

9:11

through the applications. So there's really

9:13

a wide range of interpretation

9:15

methods for the results that someone

9:17

can choose from in our application.

9:19

Is there a perhaps scope for

9:22

the app to interface with screen

9:24

readers or something like that on

9:27

the user's phone, such as VoiceOver,

9:29

where it can read the text back

9:31

to them in real time? I

9:33

don't know if that's sort of realistic

9:36

or not. Has that been something that's

9:38

been explored at any point?

9:40

Yes, that was one of the

9:42

main design guidelines

9:44

that we followed during the initial design stages

9:47

of our application. It

9:49

currently, though, is only developed for the

9:51

iOS platform. It

9:53

100% supports VoiceOver and

9:55

every element is double triple

9:58

check to ensure that it has the right accessibility

10:00

labels and everything adheres to

10:02

the wcaG guidelines.

10:05

Today, you're seeking participants

10:07

for an in-person evaluation

10:09

session. So, um, could you

10:11

provide some information for our listeners

10:14

about the session, such as, you know,

10:16

where it is, how long it'll go for

10:18

and the reimbursement and all that sort of thing?

10:20

Yeah, of course. So we have reached the

10:23

stage where we would

10:25

really like to run some evaluation

10:27

sessions in person to validate some of

10:29

our design choices. So the

10:31

evaluation sessions will indeed be in person,

10:33

and it'll either be in Monash

10:36

or I guess in the homes of the

10:38

participant. If that's okay.

10:40

The evaluation sessions will run for approximately

10:43

80 minutes, and there will be

10:45

a $75 reimbursement.

10:47

Now just a couple points I'd like to tag

10:49

on. The evaluation session

10:52

will not include the participant

10:55

conducting an actual rapid antigen

10:57

test. We have developed some mock

10:59

tests that we have 3D printed so that

11:01

it doesn't it will not collect

11:03

any biological samples

11:06

from the participant.

11:07

And that's definitely important info

11:10

for listeners out there. And

11:12

I guess that also puts quite a few

11:14

people at ease. So that's great

11:16

info to pass along for sure.

11:18

Now, if people would like to

11:20

register interest, or perhaps

11:23

read the explanatory statement that

11:25

you and your team have put together, where

11:27

can they go to find those?

11:29

So we have our website

11:32

which is Thiat guide.

11:34

So that is t h e

11:37

eye a dot guide.

11:40

And if you worked on that website

11:42

it'll redirect you to a Google form containing.

11:45

The explanatory statement, as well

11:47

as a form to register interest

11:49

in participating in our valuation

11:51

sessions. Now, alternatively,

11:53

you could also email me which is

11:56

William Chen, that is William

12:01

[email protected]

12:04

to register your interest.

12:06

Okay. Perfect. Thank you so

12:08

much William. And hopefully a lot of people

12:11

do get in touch and um, give

12:13

you some really vital information

12:15

that will really help this app go out

12:17

and help as many people out

12:20

there who are blind or have low vision

12:22

to access the health care tests

12:24

that they need. So great initiative

12:26

there. So I look forward to hearing how it goes.

12:29

Thank you, Sam, and thank you so much for having me.

12:32

I've been speaking today with William

12:34

Chen from the Inclusive

12:36

Technology Team at Monash

12:39

University, one of the developers

12:41

of the Thayer Healthcare app

12:44

for users who are blind or

12:46

have low vision. I'm

12:54

Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking

12:56

Vision on Vision Australia Radio,

12:59

Associated Stations of Reading

13:01

Radio and the Community Radio

13:03

Network. I hope you

13:05

enjoyed that conversation there with

13:07

William Chen from the Inclusive Technologies

13:10

team. If you missed any

13:12

part of that conversation with

13:14

William, I'd love to hear it again.

13:16

Talking vision is available on

13:19

the podcast app of your choice

13:21

or through the Vision Australia library.

13:23

You can also find the program

13:25

on the Vision Australia Radio

13:28

website at RVA radio.org.

13:31

That's via radio or one

13:33

word.org. There's

13:35

been a lot happening over the past

13:37

couple of weeks at Vision Australia.

13:39

And of course, looking into

13:41

the future into the month of April.

13:44

And what better person to chat

13:46

all about it than Stephanie

13:48

Steinhoff Pineau from the communications

13:51

team. Otherwise known as Steph from

13:54

comms here for the regular comms

13:56

wrap to tell us all about the latest

13:58

stuff going on. Steph, welcome

14:00

back to Talking Vision. Great to have

14:02

you again.

14:03

Thanks, Sam. It's great to be here again.

14:05

Now there's been a couple of exciting things

14:08

going on in the world of Vision

14:10

Australia over the last few weeks.

14:12

So tell us a little bit about

14:14

them.

14:15

Yeah absolutely. So

14:17

first up we cast a

14:19

spotlight on our woodworking

14:21

program that we run in Melbourne

14:24

as well as Brisbane. So we

14:26

actually had the ABC

14:28

visit the team up in Brisbane. And

14:31

really they put a focus

14:33

on our woodworking team

14:35

and how they're training people who are blind

14:37

or have low vision to, yeah, take

14:40

on woodworking as a possible career

14:42

opportunity, which is great or

14:44

just as a hobby. So look,

14:46

the program currently has around six

14:48

or so participants, but it

14:51

is always looking to expand and

14:53

yeah, it's an incredible program. And

14:55

what it does, it just opens up another

14:57

career pathway and and shows

15:00

that really it's another possibility for

15:02

someone who was blind or has low vision. And

15:04

there shouldn't be any limitations on the type

15:06

of career outcomes that they have. So

15:09

it's a really exciting one, and

15:11

we're really shown a light as well

15:13

on the team who does the training

15:15

too. So yeah, that

15:17

was really exciting to have the ABC come

15:20

and that should be running in

15:22

the next couple of weeks on TV,

15:24

as well as some features on their

15:26

social media.

15:28

And tying in quite nicely with

15:30

that. We've been involved with a

15:32

few campaigns in terms

15:34

of awareness of blindness and

15:36

low vision in the wider community

15:38

over various media. So tell

15:41

us a little bit about that project there.

15:43

Yeah. Look, I think, um, low vision

15:45

is a condition that it's so

15:47

broad. Right. It, um, it really

15:50

vision is such a spectrum and

15:52

it's one that we've been really wanting to create

15:54

more awareness around, about

15:57

the vast kind of vision conditions out there

15:59

and what everyday Aussies can

16:01

be doing to ensure that they're being

16:04

inclusive to people who are low vision

16:06

or have low vision rather. So

16:08

we created this campaign, The Pupil

16:10

Project, and it's a set

16:12

of six educational videos,

16:15

short and sweet. The talent

16:17

in these videos are actually

16:19

low vision Aussies, so

16:21

they did an incredible job

16:24

acting in these videos, and we

16:26

can't wait to see these launch from

16:28

the 8th of April. They'll be launching

16:30

on social media and then down the

16:32

track on some out-of-home billboards

16:35

as well across the country.

16:37

So it'll be a national campaign

16:39

and we just can't wait to, um, yes,

16:41

challenge some common misconceptions

16:44

about people living with low vision. And

16:46

we'll go from there.

16:47

Yeah, it's really exciting to be

16:49

involved in the early drafting of

16:52

those campaigns and give my

16:54

input on what does and doesn't

16:56

work and what's really relevant, and matches

16:59

up with my lived experience

17:01

as somebody with low vision. So

17:03

this campaign certainly something very

17:05

close to my heart. So I'm really

17:08

keen to see how those come out,

17:10

and I'm sure they'll be fantastic

17:12

and really important messages

17:14

in there. Now, just this week

17:16

coming up, we've got a couple of really

17:19

cool things going on. So why

17:21

don't you just tell us a little bit about

17:23

them and how that's all going?

17:25

Yeah. So look, this

17:27

Good Friday we do have our

17:29

Bendigo Easter egg hunt taking

17:31

place, which is at the Bendigo Easter

17:33

Festival this year. We've

17:36

been lucky to acquire 100,000

17:39

eggs, which is amazing. So

17:41

local SES workers will be hiding

17:43

those for the hunt. We do

17:45

have our accessible hunt as well

17:48

on this year, which is great. And

17:50

look, it is an all ages or.

17:52

All abilities haunt people from

17:54

all walks of life, are encouraged

17:56

to come in, get involved

17:58

and yeah, take part in the Easter

18:01

fun.

18:02

And Steph, there's a giving

18:04

Day coming up to celebrate International

18:07

Guide Dog Day later on in April.

18:09

So tell us a little bit about that

18:11

and the vital funds that'll go towards

18:13

raising for seeing our dogs.

18:15

Yes. So 24th of

18:17

April is International Guide Dogs

18:20

Day. So we

18:22

thought it. There's no better day to host

18:24

a giving day to raise important

18:27

funds that will go back to

18:29

our CNI dogs programs. So

18:31

the day we actually will

18:34

be setting it up with a

18:36

phone room at saying I dogs.

18:38

So similar to, I guess like a Good Friday

18:40

appeal. So we'll have our volunteers.

18:42

Staff will have board

18:45

members, uh, leaders from

18:47

our executive team who'll be on

18:49

the phones waiting as Aussies

18:51

call in to make donations. So

18:53

it'll be a really incredible

18:55

day. We will potentially have some

18:57

media coming down to cover

19:00

the day as well. And yeah,

19:02

it's a first for us, this kind of

19:04

big production day and we can't

19:06

wait to see the results of it.

19:08

And um, also sunrise has

19:10

got something really cool coming up.

19:13

Yes. So this

19:15

Thursday actually, we've got sunrise

19:17

coming to seeing our dogs over

19:19

at Kensington, which will be so exciting.

19:22

So, um, Sam, Mac and

19:24

the weather team will be broadcasting

19:27

live from Kensington, and

19:29

they'll just be highlighting just the incredible

19:32

work that the team does. And

19:34

we'll just be calling on compassionate

19:36

Aussies to take on

19:38

a puppy and become a puppy carer, as

19:41

well as looking into other volunteer

19:43

opportunities that we have. So

19:45

yeah, that'll be exciting.

19:47

Well, certainly we'll be exciting. But something

19:49

else really exciting is hundred K

19:51

Your way, which we've heard a little bit about

19:54

on the radio over the

19:56

past little while, but tell us a little

19:58

bit more about that and some exciting

20:00

developments there.

20:02

Things are heading up on the

20:04

1st of April. It will be kicking off

20:06

and as you may

20:08

know or may not know, we do have,

20:10

um, Sarah Jones from Fox

20:13

Footy. She was the

20:15

first female sports presenter

20:17

once upon a time and she's just

20:19

incredible. She'll be our official

20:21

or she is our official ambassador for

20:24

100 K your way, and she'll be choosing

20:26

to run for the challenge.

20:29

Yeah, we're hearing a lot about hundred

20:31

k your way. And, um, that does

20:33

of course run across the whole

20:35

of April. There's quite a few teams

20:37

going on here and there around the

20:40

various departments and things

20:42

at Vision Australia. So very exciting

20:44

to see a lot of people getting

20:46

involved. And of course, Sarah Jones

20:48

as the ambassador. That's a huge

20:50

win. So really keen to say

20:53

how that all unfolds now

20:55

Steph, and a bit of a change of

20:57

pace. There's also in regional

20:59

areas of Australia, very important

21:01

work that the organisation is

21:03

doing to ensure that people's

21:06

eHealth is at its best. So

21:08

tell us a little bit about the work

21:10

that um, we're doing currently in,

21:12

um, remote WA.

21:14

Yes. So in mid

21:16

2023, last year we

21:19

established a partnership with

21:21

Lions Outback Vision in Broome.

21:23

And basically we actually have set

21:25

up a um, specialist service

21:28

for people who are blind or have low

21:30

vision in the remote area of

21:32

Broome and in WA,

21:34

because we did find that a lot

21:36

of First Nations people were

21:39

lacking those services

21:41

or access to vision

21:43

services. And we do know

21:46

the research does show that vision

21:48

conditions are more prevalent among South

21:50

First Nations communities. So

21:52

it was really time that we

21:54

set up a permanent kind

21:56

of service before we had to kind of fly

21:58

and fly out model, but something

22:00

more concrete needed to be established. So

22:03

now that it's all set up, we do have

22:06

a client base that is growing over

22:08

there. So yeah, we actually are

22:10

just doing some media around that

22:12

really just to actually spread

22:14

the word that we are in Broome now,

22:16

we're permanently in Broome. And

22:19

you know, whoever needs our help can definitely

22:21

contact us and we'll be there. So

22:23

we've got one of our service providers, Renee

22:26

there. And yeah, she's doing

22:28

an incredible job and we're really

22:30

excited to see more of this

22:32

stuff. These types of services set

22:34

up in remote and regional um,

22:36

areas because they are needed.

22:38

And it started off with Alice Springs

22:40

where there for quite a bit, and

22:42

it's great to hear that it has spread

22:45

over to Broome now. So very

22:47

keen to see how that all unfolds

22:49

and um the positive eye health

22:51

outcomes. That that can bring to

22:54

the local communities there for

22:56

sure. So very important work and

22:58

really keen to see how that goes. Now

23:00

Steph, thanks so much for your time

23:02

today. I've been speaking today

23:04

with Steph from the communications

23:07

team at Vision Australia all

23:09

about the latest happenings around

23:11

the organisation. Steph, thanks

23:13

so much for your time. As always. It was

23:15

a pleasure to have you on the show again.

23:17

Thanks, Sam. Pleasure to be here. Thanks

23:20

so much.

23:27

And now to wrap up with a little bit

23:30

of news and information, and

23:32

the Vision Australia library will

23:34

be hosting a couple of events

23:36

in conjunction with the Melbourne

23:39

Writers Festival in early

23:41

May on the 10th of

23:43

May. In fact, Friday night

23:45

at 6 p.m. we

23:47

kick off with Toby Walsh

23:49

Machines Behaving Badly.

23:52

Join world leading artificial

23:54

intelligence expert Toby Walsh

23:56

as he examines the possibilities

23:59

and perils of emerging AI

24:01

technologies, from ChatGPT

24:04

to facial recognition and

24:06

self-driving cars. With Elizabeth

24:08

McCarthy. The gathering pace

24:10

of artificial intelligence, including

24:13

the rollout of ChatGPT,

24:15

has stunned the world this past year,

24:17

fuelling duelling excitement and

24:20

debate about its use here.

24:22

From leading AI expert and

24:24

machines behaving badly

24:26

the morality of AI. Author

24:28

Toby Walsh for a discussion

24:30

about the ethical considerations

24:33

and unexpected consequences

24:35

that these new technologies pose.

24:37

He chats with Elizabeth McCarthy

24:40

about a range of issues, from

24:42

concerns about the role chatbots may

24:44

play in amplifying misinformation,

24:47

to the ways in which AI is

24:49

quietly improving life behind

24:51

the scenes. That's Toby Walsh

24:54

Machines Behaving Badly at

24:56

6 p.m. on the 10th of

24:58

May. But following on

25:00

from Toby that same night

25:02

at 8 p.m. at the Vision Australia

25:05

Library, we hear from Louise

25:07

Milligan with Pheasants Nest.

25:10

Award winning writer and journalist

25:13

Louise Milligan discusses

25:15

Pheasants Nest, her stunning

25:17

debut literary thriller about

25:19

an abducted reporter, in conversation

25:22

with Mark Dupin. A

25:24

stunning and surprising literary

25:26

thriller with a gigantic heart.

25:29

Pheasants nest is a novel

25:31

about an abducted reporter told

25:33

by award winning writer and journalist

25:36

Louise Milligan. It's

25:38

gained wide acclaim as a

25:40

story as addictive as Gone Girl,

25:42

but with a distinctive Australian

25:44

voice and a crime novel

25:46

that could only be written by a foreign

25:48

journalists. So original, funny

25:50

and true. Milligan discusses

25:53

her thrilling debut with Mark

25:55

Dupin That's Louise Milligan,

25:58

Pheasants Nest, at 8 p.m.

26:00

on the 10th of May at

26:02

the Vision Australia Library. And

26:04

if you'd like to book your ticket to

26:07

either one of these events at

26:09

the Vision Australia Library on

26:11

the 10th of May, you can

26:13

head to the Melbourne Writer's

26:15

Festival website at mwv.

26:19

Compu that's

26:21

MWF. Com.au

26:24

or you can of course head to

26:26

the Vision Australia website

26:28

with registration links

26:30

and more information about

26:33

each event in [email protected].

26:38

That's Vision australia.org

26:41

and that's all the time we have for

26:43

today. You've been listening to

26:45

Talking Vision. Talking

26:47

vision is a Vision Australia radio

26:49

production. Thanks to all involved

26:52

with putting the show together every

26:54

week. And remember we love

26:56

hearing from you. So please get in touch

26:58

anytime on our email at

27:00

Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org.

27:04

That's talking vision or one word

27:06

at Vision australia.org.

27:08

But until next week it's Sam Cowley

27:11

saying bye for now.

27:16

You can contact Vision Australia by

27:18

phoning us anytime during business

27:21

hours on one 308

27:23

4746.

27:25

That's one 384

27:27

746 or

27:29

by visiting Vision australia.org.

27:32

That's Vision Australia call.