0:02

Hello and welcome to TCNt alks . Our

0:04

guest today is Meredith Elliott-Powell

0:06

. She's a business growth strategist , an

0:09

award-winning author, a Hall- of- Fame

0:11

speaker , and also just a really good friend . I've

0:13

had the privilege of knowing Meredith's God for probably

0:16

10 to 12 years now , and she even was my executive

0:18

coach at one point in time . I

0:21

certainly feel like I'm a product of who I am today

0:23

, certainly because of Meredith's coaching . Meredith

0:25

, welcome , it's so good to have you today , Thank

0:28

you .

0:29

I'm going to go forward to the conversation .

0:31

Let's start , Meredith . What does our audience need to know about

0:33

you ?

0:34

Well , I would say that my passion is

0:36

helping people turn uncertainty

0:38

to competitive advantage . I feel that

0:40

the times that we live in today are

0:42

really challenging , but we're

0:44

on the forefront of probably some of the

0:46

biggest transformation and the biggest

0:49

success you can have

0:51

if you're somebody who really embraces

0:53

it and is willing to go

0:55

on what is going to be an interesting

0:57

ride .

1:00

Meredith , I'd love , maybe even

1:02

a little bit more . One thing that I

1:04

don't know if I've ever actually shared this with you , but

1:06

when you reported the team at First Citizens

1:08

Bank , I don't know if you know the impact

1:11

that that team had on Four Seasons

1:13

. In fact , I just wrote about this

1:16

. I'm writing my first book . You inspired me years

1:18

ago . That's something I need to do . It's

1:20

one of my big goals this year and it's called the Anatomy

1:22

of Leadership I was talking in that book about

1:24

. It's a Peter Senghe

1:26

quote . It's not what the vision is , it's what the vision does

1:29

. One of the amazing

1:31

leaders that you worked for told

1:33

, basically cast a vision . Four Seasons said

1:36

you could be one of the best hospices in

1:38

America At the time . That was nuts

1:40

. There's nothing about that vision that

1:42

made sense . That organization was barely

1:44

even known in Western North Carolina , much

1:46

less the state of North Carolina , much

1:49

less the country . I

1:51

had no intention of taking the job at Four Seasons

1:53

. In my job interview I actually told my wife I

1:55

was going to brush up on my interviewing skills

1:57

. This little program

1:59

made such an impression

2:02

on me . Everything about that whole

2:04

interview process was designed

2:06

to impress and punch above their weight class

2:08

. They were only small hospice at the time , about

2:10

25 patients a day , even

2:12

including hosting the actual interview

2:14

at First Citizens Bank . I

2:17

just want to pay that forward to you because you are part

2:19

of that team . You know the dynamic leader I'm

2:21

talking about who is on the board of Four

2:23

Seasons . I love that thing . It's

2:25

not what the vision is , it's what the vision does . It changed

2:27

the trajectory of my life . My kids were raised here

2:30

now in Western North Carolina . I

2:32

think of all the tens of thousands of people that are

2:34

impacted , the team that we attracted they

2:37

would tell similar stories . I

2:39

think that's the beauty of leadership you throw that pebble

2:41

in the pond and you don't know the beautiful

2:43

impact it will have on other people's lives . I just

2:45

wanted to give you a shout out on that .

2:47

Thank you . I think the interesting thing about that it's

2:49

funny . You would say that because it's been

2:52

gosh . I left First Citizens in

2:55

2005 . Here

2:58

we are in 2023 and when I speak from

3:00

the stage , one of my favorite stories

3:02

to tell , and one of the biggest that's accepted , that

3:05

the audience loves , is a story that

3:07

I tell about that leader and

3:10

his five-year-old daughter , who is now

3:12

working for First Citizens .

3:14

Oh my gosh yeah .

3:17

I think when you were saying that what

3:19

I think about is leadership

3:21

is so impactful . But exceptional

3:24

leadership is subtle . When

3:27

I think about him , I think about it

3:29

was just these little things that he

3:31

did that forced

3:34

us all to take a little bit more

3:37

ownership , responsibility

3:39

, push out of our comfort zone . That transformed

3:42

our organization and certainly

3:44

your organization . But without that subtle

3:47

leadership it never would have happened

3:49

.

3:50

That is so profound because I think we live

3:52

at a time where maybe the bombastic

3:55

, the person who's outlawed the big and

3:57

more often than not I mean when Collins

3:59

wrote about that level five leader in

4:02

Good to Great , that's what he actually poked on

4:04

was that it wasn't that type of leader , the

4:06

in-your-face , dynamic , charismatic

4:08

, sometimes it was much more that

4:10

quiet , influential

4:13

, challenged people to be the best version

4:15

of themselves , of writing a chapter about

4:17

that . My new definition of

4:19

what caring for others looks like and I've grown up

4:22

in hospice we think caring for others is patting people

4:24

on the head and being nice to them . Actually

4:26

caring for others is helping

4:28

them realize the best version of themselves

4:30

. I think leaders like that and

4:32

it doesn't have to be loud and in-your-face

4:35

, but there's something about their presence that wants

4:37

you to sit up taller . I want to do the best I

4:39

can for them , change the world , whatever

4:41

it is . Does that resonate ?

4:43

Yeah , it really resonates . It's so funny

4:45

. I was just with a team last week and

4:47

we were talking about what caring is , because

4:49

we were talking about difficult conversations , we

4:51

were talking about feedback , we were talking about

4:53

accountability . I think it's so interesting

4:56

in life that I

4:58

mean , you don't want your children

5:00

to live in the basement the rest of your life

5:02

, you don't want to be supporting them at 35

5:04

, and it's because you love them that

5:07

you punish them on a Friday night . It's because

5:09

you love them that you tell them the difference

5:11

between right and wrong . Employees are no

5:13

different . The

5:15

only way I'm going to become all I can

5:17

become is if I'm led by a leader

5:19

who cares more about me than he

5:21

or she cares about themselves . That

5:24

, I think , is , as leaders , too far

5:26

. We want to be liked . We

5:30

don't want to do things that make us uncomfortable . If

5:32

you don't want that , then then

5:34

leadership may not be for you , because

5:36

you have one job and that is

5:39

to produce people around you who are better

5:41

than you are . You're approved , you could

5:43

do the job , but can you produce five

5:45

people who are better at it than

5:47

you are , and can your ego handle that ?

5:49

Wow , you know I can think about

5:52

the providence of me having been

5:54

at four seasons twice in my career . First

5:56

time is funny . I didn't realize your exact time frame on

5:58

first citizens , but I got to four seasons in 2002

6:01

. Was here 2002 , 2006

6:04

. I left , went to the student group for two years and came back

6:06

. What are the things I will honestly

6:08

say now ? I am agreeing

6:10

. If you know major by strength or sang when

6:12

, if you know the different temperaments that

6:15

temperament wants to be like , and I can

6:17

think about my first term , how

6:19

much that motivation drove my

6:22

actions , and I'm almost ashamed to admit it now

6:24

but I'm old and gray and getting more mature

6:26

and I can say you know what that was a motivation

6:28

of mine . But the second time around , the providence

6:30

of coming back to an organization we have to

6:32

face up to . Who's idiot put that

6:35

in place ? That was me .

6:38

Wait a minute .

6:39

There's a different way to do this , and

6:41

how will you care for people and lead differently

6:43

? So , men , you just right on point with that marriage

6:46

. Well , that's kind of good segue . We kind of

6:48

just jumped in right from the get go . But one

6:50

of my first questions that I thought about asking you

6:52

is when you coach some of the best leaders

6:54

in America . By the way , I saw this cool email

6:56

the other day List of the top 50

6:58

speakers in the country , one of my heroes , tony

7:01

robins , and there was my friend , meredith

7:03

. I'm like how cool is that ? And

7:05

so I don't know if most of

7:07

the folks know . In fact , there are very

7:09

few books that I have on my desk . This

7:12

is on my desk . Probably

7:15

thumb through it on a weekly basis and pull

7:17

some pearls from your book drive . So you've

7:19

got some of the best leaders in america . What do you think

7:22

are some of the greatest learning lessons that

7:24

I would hope you can pay for to hospice

7:26

and powder cure leaders , because those are our listeners

7:28

for this podcast .

7:30

Yeah , I think number one is what we just talked

7:32

about is that is that I think the first

7:34

shift that a leader's gonna make in their

7:36

mind is that you've proven you can do

7:38

the job like you wouldn't be in the

7:40

position If you want good at what you do

7:43

. Your number one job right

7:45

now is to produce people better

7:47

than you . You are in the people development

7:51

business and your fastest path

7:53

to growth Is through surrounding

7:55

yourself with really really

7:57

amazing people

7:59

. You know , we think so often that

8:01

we focus on operational processes

8:04

and systems . We focus on , you

8:06

know , patient experience . All those

8:08

things are important , but the way to drive

8:11

those is through an

8:13

incredible culture . I'm

8:15

really obsessed these days with

8:17

culture and values In

8:20

casting a vision in . Really , I

8:22

think a leader needs to really Be

8:25

able to articulate the vision and

8:28

get people to buy into the vision . And when I

8:30

say articulate the vision , you have

8:32

to talk about the vision All

8:35

time you know , I talk about

8:37

in thrive . I talk about

8:40

the fact that I learned this at first citizens

8:42

. Just two percent of our population

8:44

is visionary , twelve percent strategic

8:46

and the rest of us are tactical thinkers . Why

8:49

most of us get stuck in uncertainty

8:52

. We see an obstacle and it

8:54

is all we see , and I

8:56

, I , I say from the stage a lot I

8:58

talk about . Probably the one of the best visionary

9:01

leaders was martin luther king junior

9:03

, and as I have a dream speech now , think

9:05

about that you think about your dealing with change

9:07

and uncertainty . These people are fighting

9:09

for civil rights , something they didn't really

9:12

believe , whatever happened , and far

9:14

too often the price was too high but

9:16

, what , and they wanted to give up , understandably

9:19

, but what he did in that speech

9:21

was painted what would

9:23

happen in what he believed could

9:25

happen if they kept going , and

9:28

a leader sparks motivation

9:30

with that . Now , thank god

9:32

, we don't have to be martin luther king junior

9:34

to be that articulate , but as a leader

9:36

, your job is to help people

9:39

see what is possible , because

9:41

that's what sparks motivation , inspiration

9:44

, tenacity . Keep going . You

9:46

have to Reignite

9:48

their reason to keep going on

9:51

a regular basis .

9:53

And that's a good marathon . I think of a great

9:55

example and it was was

9:57

dumb luck on my part , but at least paying attention

10:00

, watching our team , our team is is

10:02

our busiest time of the year and you get , I can kind

10:04

of sense people's can a rear ends was dragging

10:07

. We have the most beautiful mission moment

10:09

of one of our hospices and hospice

10:11

in Idaho and the CEO has said

10:13

to me before she said chris , I would have quit

10:15

this three years ago , but teleass

10:18

has been the wind beneath my wings is like

10:20

we've . We've breathe new life

10:22

into her passion for this work . So

10:24

there is this amazing hospice story

10:26

, one of those beautiful mission moments . I can't tell it

10:28

on the air because I don't have permission , but

10:30

it's just one of those moments that you just this

10:33

is exactly what this , what

10:35

this work , is about . I'm

10:37

impacting someone's life at the end of their life

10:39

in a way that just moves you to tears . And

10:42

so she told , so I actually brought her to our

10:44

all staff meeting actually last week and

10:47

we started our meeting with that and just

10:49

started with , and she ended it to say

10:51

, guys , I was about ready to quit

10:53

doing this work , my program would no longer

10:55

exist and that mission moment wouldn't have

10:57

happened and we all walked away

10:59

from that meeting just like . This is

11:01

why we're doing this work that we do and

11:04

it was just beautiful . It was just and

11:06

it was one of those things I wish was . You know , I

11:09

did have this grand plan , it was just kind of last

11:11

moment . You know what this would be very impactful

11:13

. And just watching how that played out and I think sometimes

11:15

as leaders , it's not perfectly

11:18

choreographed and you know we don't have the

11:20

perfect power point , but more

11:22

often than not I find , as a leader , just those

11:24

kind of inspirational moments that you put together

11:26

, the authentic , sometimes

11:28

it'll fuel our team for a couple years or so . They're

11:30

still talking about something like that .

11:32

Yeah , you know , people that work for

11:34

you want to be part of a winning team . They

11:37

want to be part of something bigger than themselves

11:39

and they want to follow a

11:41

leader . Who , who , no

11:44

, where they're going , where they're headed , and so

11:46

understanding that you have

11:48

got to cast . You

11:50

got to cast that vision . The other half of

11:52

that , I think , is another really important leadership

11:54

lesson , is how important Accountability

11:57

is you know that the people

12:00

need to be . I think the statistic

12:02

is 67% of disciplinary

12:04

issues . Over half of the reason

12:06

you're ticked off at a team member

12:08

Is because they didn't understand what was

12:10

expected of them , because you weren't clear

12:13

about . This is exactly what you needed

12:15

. Now we give everybody a job description , but

12:18

the problem with the job description is the last

12:20

line is and anything else we ask you to do

12:22

other duties as a sign

12:24

exactly so . You come to work

12:26

every day with a to do list that's far

12:29

too long and you decide what

12:31

the priorities are . The chances

12:33

that your team members are choosing the same priorities

12:35

that you are are slim to none , so

12:38

they do what they think is important

12:40

or what they're comfortable with , and you're angry

12:43

because they didn't prioritize the right

12:45

thing . But at the end of the day , you

12:47

didn't give them clarity as to how to

12:49

be successful . I mean , employees

12:52

want to be successful and if they're

12:54

not , chances are well

12:57

no chance . It's always your fault because

12:59

number one . You either didn't give them the direction

13:01

they need , you didn't give them the skill of the development

13:03

Read in move them off the team if they're

13:06

a discipline issue and didn't , you

13:08

know , didn't , didn't do the job . So that

13:10

you know that juxtaposition or that

13:12

, that balance of I'm gonna motivate

13:15

you , I'm gonna tell you thank you , I'm gonna give

13:17

you a vision , I'm gonna remind you of the purpose

13:19

. I'm gonna be that person who

13:21

tells you you are part of something great and

13:24

then , if you don't get with the program , I'm

13:26

gonna be the person coming behind you telling what

13:28

you need to do to get line

13:30

and you know and make it happen

13:32

. It's no , it's

13:35

no mystery . Why the military

13:37

? Why people join

13:40

a military at little pay with

13:42

you . Dangerous positions , massive

13:45

purpose , massive accountability

13:47

.

13:48

Yeah , that's well sad and I'm

13:50

reminded years ago when

13:52

I was working for the student group , at this very

13:54

poignant moment that just illustrated what you just

13:56

said . This was a nationally known person of

13:59

very nationally known Can speaker

14:01

in our hospice and powder cure space , worked

14:03

for a hospice program and

14:05

her boss was like literally thinking

14:07

he need to fire her . And

14:09

so I facilitated a meeting between

14:11

that person , those two people the

14:14

boss and this other person is nationally known

14:16

and basically

14:18

what happened was this huge

14:20

on the leaders part that they had not

14:22

articulated what the expectation was

14:24

of the role but also that

14:26

person to go . Oh my gosh , you

14:28

expected something totally different than where I was

14:31

putting my time and energy . There is this

14:33

beautiful tears me was just like you know , like a hallmark

14:35

commercial , like perfect , and

14:37

it just , it , just man . That lesson

14:40

, sunken so deeply because I saw it right in

14:42

front of me , who are two people who I both respected

14:44

, and is probably because

14:46

I both respected them I knew something was a mess

14:49

, makes me wonder how many times there's

14:51

a misdiagnosis . Well , that person is

14:53

just you know where . But the reality

14:55

is this is the core issue is they really don't

14:57

understand clearly what's expected of them

14:59

, nor do they understand the story that they're

15:01

a part of .

15:03

Yeah , I definitely . I think that you know we have

15:05

to figure out what the five big priorities

15:07

are in our organization , that

15:09

if I leave the office every day , I leave

15:11

you know the facility every day . I've done

15:13

these five things . I will be a successful

15:16

. Be successful . Then you have people

15:18

really understanding what is most important . One of

15:20

my favorite stories you talked about for citizens . Years

15:23

ago I had a teller who would never look

15:25

up and smile at anybody who came into the

15:27

branch . Maybe crazy , what is

15:29

wrong ? I mean , how could you not know that

15:31

? I would say something to her when I was

15:33

in there . Could you not look up ? Could you not smile

15:35

? And one day I sat down I said you

15:37

have to help me and said this is just peer to

15:39

peer , I'm not your boss . Why will

15:41

you not smile ? She pulled out her

15:43

performance review . She said

15:45

you grade me on balancing , you

15:47

grade me on on compliance

15:50

. You grade me on all these things . Nowhere

15:52

on my performance review to

15:54

say I need to smile . She said I know

15:56

you're mad at me , but I'm trying

15:58

to keep my head above water and I'm not

16:00

going to get fired for not smiling to people

16:02

, but I'm going to get fired if I can't balance by draw

16:04

at the end of the day Interesting and I looked at her

16:06

and I said you know what ? you're a hundred percent right

16:09

. I mean I my words

16:11

are not matching my action

16:13

. So you know , I say the biggest leadership

16:15

lesson in that is employees are failing

16:17

. Far too often we look to see what's wrong

16:19

with the employee . Over

16:22

eighty percent of the time when I work with somebody

16:24

it's what's wrong with the leader . Now

16:26

that can sound like I'm pointing a finger at the

16:28

leader , but to me I found that so empowering Because

16:31

if something's wrong with me it's way easier

16:33

to fix me Then . It easy than it

16:35

is to fire an employee , find another employee

16:37

, train another employee . If I

16:39

can understand that , I'm holding eighty percent

16:41

of those cards . I got a lot

16:44

of opportunity to really create an amazing culture

16:46

.

16:46

Yeah , especially thinking about today's work environment

16:48

, because they're just not going to be enough

16:51

people in healthcare . When we look

16:53

at the volume , the silver tsunami coming

16:55

, it seems like letting that lesson

16:57

sink in deeply and maybe in the past it's

16:59

easier to go . What's the employee need to let him go , but

17:02

it feels like the onus is going to be probably

17:04

. They're probably too extreme . Pass right , you still

17:06

got the path of there no longer appropriate , so

17:08

you get them off . The team Are the other

17:11

road less traveled is , oh my god , there's no staff

17:13

, so we don't even address the issue , which

17:15

I think that's probably the other extreme . I'm

17:17

the john Maxwell adage that keeps

17:20

coming to me as you keep kind

17:22

of hitting on this merit is Is

17:24

that a job if you're leading and no

17:26

one's following ? You're just taking a walk

17:28

, and that leadership

17:30

is this art of how do you get everyone

17:32

pulling in the same direction ? And , yes

17:35

, some days it feels like hurting cats . Yes , I'm

17:37

, days it feels like everybody's going in a million

17:39

different directions . My organization

17:41

is virtual . I don't have one place I could

17:43

walk in and see how the team is

17:46

pulling . But leadership

17:48

is so necessary .

17:50

Yeah , in fact it's more than

17:52

it's more necessary

17:54

than ever . I just read a statistic . Yesterday

17:56

I was doing some research and it said we're , we're

17:59

, we are experiencing two hundred

18:01

percent more disruption than

18:03

we were five years .

18:05

Wow , that feels so accurate

18:07

yeah , exactly .

18:08

And so , with that , the

18:12

only way to get through it is through

18:14

, you know , is through leadership

18:16

. Really , I mean , if there was ever

18:18

a time we needed leaders , it

18:20

is now that we need leaders .

18:23

That's probably a good segue to my next question . So

18:25

how can leaders keep the business

18:28

thriving While working in

18:30

envisioning what needs to come next

18:32

in order to thrive ? It's almost like you . Can

18:34

they walk into gum at the same time ? It's

18:36

probably so . Can you speak to that ?

18:38

Yeah , we need to . We need

18:40

to really move into a mode

18:42

where leaders need to start Creating

18:45

a future focused workforce

18:48

and a future focused workforce

18:50

is a workforce that is anticipating

18:52

change , is predicting change

18:55

and is basically

18:58

implementing change before

19:01

change is required to happen

19:03

. You know , the thing about change is we think

19:05

that we don't know what

19:08

the change is going to be , and that's

19:10

fair , but you do know that change

19:12

is coming . I mean , everybody listening

19:14

to this part , you know that .

19:16

You think probably Especially in healthcare .

19:18

Yeah , exactly , you know it's coming . So if you know

19:20

it's coming , you can

19:22

take a guess at what that's

19:24

going to be . And having that

19:26

, I think a job as a leader is

19:29

to condition their team for

19:31

change . You got to get them in shape

19:33

for change . It's

19:36

like if you and I watched the news

19:38

this afternoon and war broke

19:40

out in Iraq , we would almost

19:42

be numb to it because we're used to

19:45

war breaking out in Iraq

19:47

, right . So it's kind of like if

19:49

you get your team used to change

19:51

and constantly changing and in

19:53

shape , then even when a really

19:55

big shifts come , they're more ready

19:58

to do it . And so

20:00

you've got to . You know it comes down

20:03

to that We've got tools and things that we help

20:05

you do that with . We're like

20:07

literally saying we're going

20:09

to start to predict the changes that are coming . We're

20:11

going to ask ourselves what do we need to be doing

20:13

now to get ready for those changes

20:16

that are coming and what are small things

20:18

that we can integrate and we can implement

20:20

so when the bigger shifts come they

20:23

don't catch us off ?

20:24

guard . That's really good , meredith

20:26

, because I Just that , that

20:28

gravitational pull . I think often

20:30

because many people have not been trained

20:32

, we still do a pretty paltry

20:34

job of how we train leaders and

20:36

what is leadership . Certainly , in Tilly House

20:38

we try to remedy that . We spend a ton of time

20:41

providing leadership training , but the gravitational

20:43

pull is just the day to day crisis , the

20:45

jure . So , and

20:48

this is why many business books have been

20:50

written about the life cycle , the bell shaped curve

20:52

, and when your business or your industry

20:54

is on the right side of the curve , it's literally like

20:56

gravity pulling you down . The business

20:58

is getting tighter margins are getting tighter regulations

21:01

, etc . So what actions

21:03

or strategies Like ? How do you get out of

21:05

that day to day and become more future

21:08

oriented , especially when the gravity

21:10

feels like it's pulling you ? Oh , my God , there's

21:12

so much stuff coming at us . There's so much stuff happening

21:14

right now .

21:15

Yeah , number one , you've got to create the space

21:17

for it . So you all

21:19

have team meetings and

21:21

in those team meetings everybody updates each

21:23

other on everybody , everything that they're doing and

21:26

those types of things . Take

21:28

some of that time , take 20

21:30

minutes once a month , take 20

21:32

minutes once a quarter and

21:34

start to talk about , you know , what

21:36

are the changes that we see coming in healthcare ? What

21:39

are the changes we see coming in our community ? How

21:42

are our patients changing ? Get

21:44

your team talking and conversing . Get

21:47

somebody to take some notes and then literally just

21:49

say what are one

21:51

or two changes that we need to be paying attention to , what

21:54

are one or two things that we could

21:56

begin to execute , we could begin to

21:58

implement on now . In

22:00

other words , start the

22:02

conversation and get people thinking . Chris

22:05

, what this is going to do is the reason

22:07

that change people hate . It is

22:09

, it feels driven top down . Think about

22:11

everybody who works for you . They're

22:13

sitting there and they're going . What's he going to come

22:15

in and do next ? What's he going to show

22:17

up and tell us we've got to change ?

22:19

What's going to ?

22:20

happen when he goes to that conference or that meeting and

22:23

you can't give people

22:25

, you can't tell them what is going to happen , but

22:28

the opposite . The best

22:31

way to decrease fear is

22:33

to give people action . If

22:35

I take action , it decreases my fear . And

22:38

taking action is about

22:40

getting me involved in the conversation and giving

22:43

me something to do . That's really good

22:45

.

22:47

You must remember one of our long coaching sessions . I

22:49

actually got back from a national conference and it

22:52

was a staff meeting and the staff said , great , what

22:54

is he going to have

22:56

us do now ? And that was

22:58

actually a poignant moment for me to go . Okay

23:00

, they're kind of becoming the . He

23:04

came back , what book are we going to read , or whatever , and trying

23:06

to be more methodical with that . Well

23:09

, two things that occurred to me now , meredith is a question

23:11

is that we have a C-suite . We have a C-suite

23:14

leaders , or a lot of our actual

23:16

customers or listeners of

23:18

our podcast . So

23:20

what about the C-suite ? And ? But just all

23:22

the leaders it feels like to do what you're talking

23:24

about , they've got to invest in themselves some

23:27

kind of way , and so what do you recommend

23:29

there ?

23:29

Yeah . So I do recommend that

23:31

you get with a counsel of your peers . I mean

23:34

, I think , more than more than ever , that's

23:36

been incredibly important . You

23:38

need to there's comfort in knowing

23:40

that you're not in this slog alone

23:43

. The second

23:45

is you need other people's ideas

23:47

. There probably isn't one

23:49

problem that you are facing that

23:52

somebody that you're connected to isn't

23:56

a little further down the pipe on

23:58

trying to solve that problem . Or at least

24:00

, if you put your heads together , you

24:04

can work on doing that . So

24:09

you need to be doing things to educate

24:11

yourself about how

24:13

to navigate uncertain times . You need to

24:15

be doing things to educate yourself

24:18

about who in your industry is

24:20

really leading the way . This

24:22

is a time to get yourself around a pack of

24:24

people that are smarter , better

24:27

and more successful than you are . You

24:29

should cheer when you are the weakest

24:31

link in the room . I

24:35

was just listening to a competitor this

24:37

morning with something that she does

24:39

and I reached out to her and

24:41

I said are there some things that we could do together ? I'm

24:44

looking for ways to collaborate with my

24:46

competitors rather than compete with them

24:48

, because competition

24:50

is a waste of energy and time at this moment A

24:53

waste , in all

24:55

honesty . It's going to take everybody

24:57

in healthcare working together to solve

25:00

the issues . The

25:02

enemy is not another palliative care

25:05

or not another hospice center , the

25:07

enemy or the shifts coming in the marketplace

25:09

and the more that you work together . I'm

25:12

going to say one thing about that

25:14

, because the collaboration is so important

25:16

. I was working in Kansas City last

25:19

week and I'm driving down the highway in nowhere in Kansas

25:21

I know that's sort of an oxymoron , it's

25:23

always in Newark , kansas . But

25:26

I passed this exit and as

25:28

I'm getting close to the exit there's a great big

25:30

billboard . On the billboard is McDonald's

25:33

, arby's , burger

25:36

King and one or two others . I thought isn't

25:38

that interesting , because had it just

25:40

been a McDonald's billboard I would

25:42

not have pulled off because that's not

25:44

enough enticement , even though I wanted

25:47

a McDonald's cup of coffee . That's what I wanted . But

25:49

the very fact that they were all in there together

25:51

I thought this is a bigger exit that

25:54

I'm probably going to see . There's more happening

25:56

here . I should probably get off on

25:58

this exit rather than wait to another . Now

26:00

, the people paying for that advertising

26:02

had no control over where I went . They

26:05

were technically advertising

26:07

their competitor , but I would argue

26:09

they all get more traffic because they

26:11

collaborate and go together . I think , as leaders

26:13

, we need to start thinking that way .

26:15

Wow , that's really good , Meredith . In some respects

26:18

, I think in some of our past coaching

26:20

sessions there probably were some seas that

26:22

you planted in my brain , but we believe

26:24

in collaboration so much it's in our name Tilly-S

26:26

Collaborative Network . The idea

26:28

was how do we pull people together to collaborate

26:30

in ways that they haven't before and how

26:32

do we create a value proposition to add value

26:35

for them ? Which that reminds me , Meredith

26:37

, one thing I did want to ask you You've got a project

26:39

you're about ready to launch in the hospice

26:41

and powder care space , and so , with the National

26:44

Partnership for Healthcare and Hospice Innovation

26:46

, and definitely around this idea

26:48

of leaders investing in themselves , can you just

26:50

say just a little bit about that ?

26:52

Yeah , I was just trying to video for it yesterday

26:54

, really excited . It's

26:56

the MPHI CEO Roundtable

26:59

and it is literally an innovative

27:01

think tank where leaders are going to get together . They

27:04

are going to invest in themselves . We're going to walk

27:06

them through our Thrive system . I

27:09

have done so much research on

27:11

uncertainty and why some organizations

27:14

succeed , what it takes to transform

27:16

, even when all the obstacles

27:19

are put out there in front

27:21

of you . But it's a program that's going to run 10

27:23

months . We're going to meet twice

27:25

in person and the rest of the time

27:27

virtually . We're

27:29

going to bring in world-class speakers but , most

27:32

importantly , we're going to

27:34

take on some of the biggest challenges

27:37

that their organizations , as

27:39

well as the industry , is facing and

27:41

then work on finding the opportunities and

27:43

solutions . So it's going to be a

27:46

transformative experience

27:49

and Kudos to the leaders willing

27:51

to invest in themselves . And

27:53

you know , chris , it's funny something like this

27:55

feels like time away from

27:58

the work .

27:59

Right , I'm going to find time . I've got all these crises

28:01

. I can't even say grace over right .

28:04

Yeah , but if you don't do that , if

28:06

you don't create that

28:08

space to do that , you're going

28:11

to lose . It's

28:13

the difference between the Kodak , the

28:16

blockbuster and the Netflix

28:18

. Netflix still found the time

28:20

to innovate , create and do business differently

28:23

. Kodak and blockbuster did

28:25

not . It really is that

28:28

simple . This isn't a choice

28:30

that leaders think they have

28:32

the luxury of making anymore .

28:34

Meredith , one of your coaching lessons

28:36

that , as you just said , what you said , and I

28:38

think that's probably one of many teasers

28:40

I could give folks of the impact that you had on me

28:42

. But it was a really difficult year I think

28:44

it was about 2012 , and we had seen a

28:46

significant decrease in the number

28:48

of patients that we were serving and there were some

28:50

macro business reasons why . And I remember

28:53

going to our coaching session and I shared with you , like

28:55

you know , here's why it's occurring . And you said

28:57

stop that , do not

28:59

give permission for that to be

29:01

the reality . And I'm thinking , well , you

29:03

don't understand our business , but

29:06

that lesson was so profound , so

29:08

kind of fast forward , maybe a little bit of

29:10

a slow learner , but in COVID I

29:12

paid that lesson forward to our team with IntelliAce

29:14

, and so we use the spirit of don't

29:17

give ourselves permission . Yes , there's an

29:19

unprecedented challenge , but

29:21

what can we focus on ? Kind of that old Stephen

29:23

Covey , what's your spirit of influence ? What's out your

29:25

spirit of influence ? And guess what ? Most

29:28

of our members still grew More

29:30

people got services . At a time when most of hospices

29:33

in America went backwards , our worst ones

29:35

at least held firm , and

29:37

so I think that that's just one piece of business

29:39

wisdom and you pushed

29:42

my thinking , like I think you saw in me that

29:44

I was rationalizing , and then I was setting

29:46

that tone in my organization and

29:48

then that tone was kind of creating an

29:51

acceleration to a spiral that was not

29:53

good for our organization and so I just wanted to pay

29:55

that forward to you . I still pay that lesson

29:57

forward to many others .

29:59

Yeah , you know , I want to comment on that

30:01

because it's it's so

30:03

important . Like you know , leaders will

30:05

give me reasons that they are challenged

30:07

, that that it's not going to work , and , to tell you the

30:09

truth , those reasons are valid

30:12

. They are incredibly valid

30:14

. There are I'm dealing with a with an organization

30:17

right now , a CEO that the

30:19

regulation coming at him , in my

30:21

opinion , is Unfair in

30:23

that industry totally unfair . And I

30:25

asked him . I said do you want me to talk

30:27

to you about why this regulation is unfair

30:29

I'll burn an hour talking to you

30:31

about that or do you want to figure out how

30:33

you're going to navigate this ? So you come out on top

30:36

, because those are two different conversations

30:38

and I'm not telling you your what . What

30:40

you're facing isn't fair . It's , it's

30:42

it . You know it's wrong . I

30:44

agree with you . I don't have time

30:46

for that . Yeah , and and I

30:49

just recently I agreed

30:51

to join an organization and , like

30:53

in nothing flat , they put me on the board and I

30:56

didn't realize how much trouble the organization

30:58

was in until I joined the board

31:00

and we actually met and had to make a Decision

31:03

. If , within the next six months , we'd

31:05

have to shut it down , we'd have to merge

31:07

it or we could try to save it . And

31:09

to try to save it , we would have to do three

31:11

things that no leader in that

31:13

organization had been able to do in ten years

31:16

. We took the , we

31:18

decided that we would try to save it and

31:20

we would try to do the three things

31:22

, and we radically focused I mean we said no

31:24

to everything else and radically

31:26

focused , and I

31:29

couldn't believe it . In six

31:31

months , we did everything

31:33

that no leader had been able

31:35

to do in ten years . Now , that is not because

31:37

we were exceptional leaders . I'm telling you

31:39

. That is the power of focusing

31:42

on what you can control

31:44

. It is a mind-boggling .

31:46

Yeah , that is so well said . I actually

31:48

have written this recently in a chapter of my

31:50

book about it's the wisdom of the

31:53

spear of influence , steven Covey , seven habits

31:55

it was the very first leadership book , and

31:57

that piece of wisdom of focusing on your

31:59

spear of influence and literally Don't

32:01

focus on anything else . But the paradox

32:04

is and I'm now old and gray enough

32:06

that your spear of influence grows and

32:08

things that you use to think we're outside your spear

32:10

of influence are now in . So it's

32:12

like start there , and then those things that

32:14

maybe gave you consternation in the past guess

32:16

what ? Eventually they will be in your spear of influence

32:19

, but you'll have a better platform to actually

32:21

impact those things . And so I

32:23

just I feel like I'm a living lesson of exactly

32:25

that . So , meredith , any final thoughts ?

32:28

Just that you know . I

32:30

really want people to understand and

32:32

believe that uncertainty can lead to

32:34

opportunity , that I realize You're

32:36

in healthcare and I realize it is particularly

32:39

challenging . But

32:41

you need to not only figure this out

32:44

for yourself . You need to figure it out for your team

32:46

, you need to figure it out for your employees . You need

32:48

to need to realize that you cannot

32:50

figure this out on your own , that

32:53

there is Information

32:55

, there's collaboration , there's

32:57

cooperation , there's opportunity . But

32:59

if you dig in , you do the work , you

33:01

can turn uncertainty into your greatest opportunity

33:04

.

33:05

Awesome , Meredith . Well , thank you for how you continue to

33:07

give back . Thank you for the difference you've made in my life

33:09

. I'm always appreciative of you and can't

33:11

wait to share you with a lot of my wonderful friends

33:14

and peers in the hospice and Path of Care space

33:16

through MPHI pretty soon . So

33:19

I'm going to go ahead and leave our listeners always do

33:21

with a quote . This one was actually chosen by

33:23

Meredith and it says life is about

33:25

not knowing , having

33:27

to change , taking the moment

33:30

and making the best of it without

33:32

knowing what's going to happen next

33:34

. And that's from delicious ambiguity . Thanks

33:36

for listening to TCN talks .

33:43

So we're gonna say conversation .

33:45

Yeah , awesome conversation I'm

33:47

actually launching as so we have

33:49

teleass collaborative network , we have teleass consulting

33:51

group , and so one of the things we're going to do next year is we're

33:53

launching a podcast called

33:55

the Anatomy of Leadership , and so

33:57

it'll kind of fit in between the TCN talks

34:00

and so I'd love to have you back for us to talk just

34:02

leadership in general and

34:04

so . But as I think about a question , another

34:07

one of just Meredith Pearls that stuck in my

34:09

brain and I'm watching our wonderful

34:11

TCN CEOs and their leaders and I

34:14

can't remember the context , it probably was

34:16

it . The context probably was us going into the

34:18

Asheville market and you told me this

34:20

Beautiful story about you were an amazing

34:22

swimmer and your swimming coach said hey

34:24

, meredith , you know what your problem is is you keep

34:26

looking over at the guy or gal in the next lane

34:29

, swim your race . And

34:31

man , that just was like a brain

34:33

tattoo and I've re quoted that one

34:36

several times , because there

34:38

is wisdom at looking at your competitor

34:40

, but there's a whole lot of wisdom of

34:42

kind of swimming your race . Can you speak to that

34:44

?

34:44

Yeah , you know it's um , it is . You

34:47

know we lose time and I think

34:49

in . I think , in the face of uncertainty , we

34:51

have a fear that we should be doing something

34:54

that we're not doing , and that fear

34:56

of doing something that we're not doing costs

34:58

us Precious time and precious

35:00

resource . So every time I'm going down the lane

35:02

that I'm pausing to see where my competitor

35:05

was , I would lose a fraction

35:07

of a second and ultimately that would go

35:09

. That would cost me the race . So

35:12

a couple of things about that . I do think there's wisdom

35:14

at looking at your competitors , but you

35:16

need to be clear on your values . All

35:18

right , because what your competitor

35:21

is doing may be working for them

35:23

, but it isn't an alignment

35:25

with your values . And

35:28

if the best way to make decisions in the face

35:30

of uncertainty is to understand

35:32

your values , if it aligns with

35:34

your values , it's the right decision for you

35:36

. If it doesn't , it isn't , let

35:38

it go . That's how you stay focused .

35:41

You know it's interesting . I had this kind of prompts me

35:43

. There's a conversation I had with a team member great

35:45

, wonderful team member , great respect

35:48

for them and I noticed that . So

35:50

our mission at TCN is care as

35:52

it should be , which is all about us helping

35:54

our members preserve this beautiful model

35:56

of hospice and powder care and make sure it thrives into

35:58

the future . That's really what cares it should be means

36:00

. But I noticed that this

36:02

team member and a couple team members are starting to

36:05

make care as it should be , about care for each

36:07

other within our organization

36:09

, and I Kind of I asked

36:11

the employees , said let's talk about that . We're actually going to take

36:13

this to a leadership meeting coming up and I said I

36:15

was kind of schooled in the doctor's . They or

36:18

school that your mission is

36:20

, mother . That is outward . Facing

36:22

is the broader cause and purpose from which we exist

36:25

, our values or our internal

36:27

values and how we interact with each other . Our

36:29

mission has care do is

36:32

this care for each other within our values . I'm

36:34

not saying care for each other is not a good thing , is an awesome

36:36

thing , but it's about keeping the first

36:38

things first , like why should we care for

36:40

each other ? Because we're amazing human beings . We love each

36:42

other , but we've been brought together to serve

36:44

this cause and purpose and it's prompting

36:46

a cool conversation , because I think there's a gap

36:49

in our values that actually doesn't

36:51

speak , and so what they did is kind of hijacked

36:53

our mission to to Basically

36:56

fill in a gap in our values . I'm just curious

36:59

, you you respond to that . Do you think

37:01

we're kind of on to something ? Because I think what we're gonna

37:03

have to do is look at our values , that there's a value

37:05

missing .

37:06

Yes , absolutely . That's exactly what I was

37:08

going to say . Is that there's , you know , the

37:11

far too often we build

37:13

strategies , we build visions , we build

37:15

missions , values , goals , and

37:17

we think they're set in stone . They're

37:19

not . You know , if there is something

37:21

that you , you know , really

37:24

feel that you should be doing , that you're not

37:26

doing and it doesn't align with your values

37:28

, guess what ? It's time to adjust

37:30

those values , to really look at that and say is

37:33

this encompassing everything

37:35

that we need and we want ? You

37:37

know , we want to do ? I always tell clients

37:39

when I work with them I'm going to make you set goals at

37:41

the beginning of , and when you come and

37:43

you talk to me and you're so far away from

37:45

those goals , I'll always ask you Tell

37:48

me how this relates to the goal that you set and

37:50

if it doesn't , is it something you

37:52

want to focus on and do we need to adjust the

37:54

goals ? Things are

37:56

meant to be fluid . So , absolutely

37:58

. I just told you in the

38:00

other podcast that you know

38:02

, 200% increase disruption

38:05

from five years ago . Imagine

38:08

what it's going to be in the next two , the chances

38:10

that you're going to need to adjust values

38:12

or adjust vision . They're

38:14

pretty strong . So I love

38:16

the fact that we say discipline

38:18

to follow what we need to follow , but we

38:20

have enough flexibility to adjust if we

38:22

need to adjust .

38:23

Meredith , I don't know if you know this . I've ever told you

38:25

the story behind our Atelias logo , and

38:28

so the triangle with the swirl in it it

38:30

actually comes from Jim Collins' book , Before

38:32

Good to Great , which was built to last , and

38:34

if you know , Collins is so he's so gifted

38:36

with the sticky concepts

38:38

. And so the concept in that book was , he said

38:41

, and this was , organizations that were built to

38:43

last over decades . He

38:45

said there was all this change swirling about

38:47

, but in this middle there was this somewhat unchangeable

38:50

core , which was the mission vision of values . But

38:52

just like a hurricane , the

38:54

eye shifts over the course of time . So , in

38:56

other words , there are some concepts

38:59

that are sacrosanct

39:01

is not the right word they're foundational

39:03

, but they evolve over time and you got to keep

39:05

revisiting them . We love that concept so

39:07

much , first off because we're working with hospices that are

39:09

in many cases 30 , 40 years in their community

39:12

, and so we built that into

39:14

our logo , that it's this , all this

39:16

change in innovation swirling about , but in this

39:18

middle there's a somewhat unchangeable core

39:20

of our mission vision of values .

39:23

Right , yeah , I think that's you know

39:25

the the especially

39:27

. You know , I studied in a research . Companies have been

39:29

around 200 , 250 years

39:31

. Imagine if they had had no

39:33

adjustment to their vision , their

39:36

mission and their values . Right , where would

39:38

they be ? At the same time , there's

39:40

parts of them that are really

39:42

core . I'll give you an example . One that we researched

39:44

was King Arthur Flower , and

39:47

they've been around since the late 1700s . Well

39:50

, a core value for them was

39:52

quality , and they've struggled with

39:55

it over the years because high

39:57

tech things like the rolling pin were invented

39:59

since C and they had

40:01

to decide do we go with that , do we not go

40:03

with that ? But

40:05

quality has remained a

40:07

core value , while they've shifted and adjusted

40:10

other things . You know

40:12

other things around them , so

40:14

you don't want to lose the heart of who you

40:16

are and why you're doing what

40:18

you're doing . At the same time

40:21

, you need to adapt to the change

40:23

and the times that you're living in . Well

40:25

, Meredith .

40:26

Any final thoughts ? I appreciate you staying on for this extended

40:28

play . Any final thoughts ?

40:30

Yeah , just that you know . I think

40:32

the most important thing is to realize that

40:34

I don't know in my time that we've ever

40:37

that leadership has ever been more

40:39

important . And if

40:41

you think that you are skilled up as

40:43

a leader , I want you to take a long

40:45

look in the mirror and really ask

40:48

yourself are you doing everything

40:50

you need to do to acquire

40:52

the skills that it is going to take to

40:54

deliver in today's marketplace ? Because what

40:57

you have learned in the last 10 , 20

40:59

, even 30 years has been good , but

41:02

this is a literal economic , societal

41:05

shift and it is going to take a

41:07

different skill set to lead your

41:09

organization and your team through it .

41:12

Perfect . Thanks , Meredith . Well , I appreciate you . Thank

41:14

you so much again for the work you do and thanks for we're

41:16

so glad . I think it's two years been trying to get you on the show

41:18

, so thanks for taking the time today

41:20

. Thank you , yep . So hang on

41:22

one second . So , jeff , if you want to go ahead and stop

41:24

recording .