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Amazing sports stories from the Bbc

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World Service towels their story. Search

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for amazing sports stories wherever you

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get your Bbc podcasts. Hello!

1:08

And welcome It's a tech life,

1:10

the program about technology making an

1:12

impact on your life I'm sure

1:14

Mccallum and this week we're looking

1:16

at health, take our reports or

1:18

gets hands on with a new

1:20

Ultra system in Kenya which is

1:23

hoped will keep mums healthy during

1:25

pregnancy. Motive that in a moment

1:27

mano take his take for menopause.

1:29

we look at what's available. Menopausal

1:31

hot flushes are really and over

1:34

activation of your sympathetic nervous

1:36

system or your fight or flight

1:38

response. The social media platform

1:40

that we used to call twitter

1:43

has a new rival and inside

1:45

the Vatican I speak to

1:47

the Pope's adviser on Technology. This

2:07

is a kind of, I look at a

2:10

problem which affects many women

2:12

all over the world, complications

2:14

during pregnancy. And this

2:16

can sometimes lead to death. It

2:18

particularly affects women living in poorer

2:20

countries or remote areas. Well

2:23

in Kenya a new development in

2:25

ultrasounds could help pregnant women living

2:27

long distances from cities which would

2:30

especially help those living in remote

2:32

villages without hospitals or doctors. TechLife's

2:35

Yasmin Morgan Griffiths has visited

2:37

a maternal clinic in Kenya's

2:39

capital Nairobi to see the new

2:41

tech being tested. And Yasmin's with

2:43

Mihir in the studio. Yasmin, maternal

2:46

deaths are a problem there. Just

2:48

how big is the problem? So

2:51

this is actually a global problem. According

2:53

to the World Health Organisation a woman

2:55

dies around every two minutes somewhere in

2:57

the world due to complications in pregnancy

3:00

or childbirth. But the

3:02

vast majority of those deaths happen

3:04

in sub-Saharan Africa. And in

3:06

Kenya the problem is actually getting worse and

3:08

that's partly due to the impact of the

3:11

coronavirus pandemic on healthcare provision. When

3:13

I was in Kenya I spoke to

3:15

an organisation called Jackaranda Health. Their

3:18

head of research projects Piska

3:20

Chumali-Cheriot told me about some of

3:22

the issues expectant mothers are facing there. Not

3:24

all moms are able to access the right kind of

3:26

care. Transport getting to the

3:28

hospital is always an issue. We

3:30

don't have enough healthcare workers for the

3:33

population. Big problem I would say. I

3:36

also visited one of Jackaranda Health's

3:38

maternity clinics in the capital Nairobi

3:40

to speak to an expectant mother

3:42

who had serious complications in two

3:44

pregnancies. This is Jennifer Muthoni.

3:47

My amnestic fluid was low

3:49

so the baby cannot move.

3:52

So I had to go for cesarean

3:54

section. And did your doctors tell you

3:56

that it could have been prevented if

3:58

you'd had an ultra sound earlier?

4:00

Yeah, we said this could

4:02

have been prevented. Where you

4:05

live is it difficult to

4:07

to get an ultrasound during

4:09

your pregnancy? It's difficult

4:11

for us in village.

4:13

It's quite expensive and you have to

4:16

go for a distance to get it.

4:18

So it sounds like there are pretty

4:20

significant problems there. So what's the

4:22

tech solution? The one major

4:24

factor in these maternal deaths in Kenya is

4:26

a lack of access to services that we

4:29

might just take for granted here in the

4:31

West and that includes your basic ultrasound scan

4:33

to check that the pregnancy is going smoothly.

4:36

Jackaranda Health has partnered up with

4:39

Google which is developing an artificial

4:41

intelligence system that to some extent

4:43

automates ultrasound scans. So

4:46

how it works is they send video

4:48

output from an ultrasound probe to software

4:50

on a tablet or smartphone which

4:52

you can imagine is a lot more

4:54

portable and less expensive than a traditional

4:56

ultrasound scanner. The software

4:58

then uses AI models to analyze

5:01

the image without the need for

5:03

interpretation by an expert sonographer. Google

5:05

software engineer Angelica Willis told me

5:08

how they've trained those models. We

5:11

collected ultrasound video from

5:13

thousands of patients both

5:15

in the US as

5:18

well as in places

5:20

like Kenya, Zambia just

5:22

to make sure that we have a good

5:24

distribution and representation of the

5:26

populations that we think this technology

5:29

can benefit. It's really important that

5:31

models are able to see data

5:33

that's reflective of the type of

5:35

patients that they will be serving.

5:39

So this technology is supposed to be so easy

5:41

to use that pretty much anyone can learn to

5:43

use it. So I got to have a go

5:45

myself on a fake baby bump. And what exactly

5:47

did you do? So the

5:49

software tells you exactly where to sweep the

5:52

probe. Six times over the abdomen. It's really

5:54

quick and it only took me about three

5:56

minutes to complete the entire scan. At

5:59

the end of software gives you two

6:01

very important pieces of information. The first

6:03

is the gestational age and that's just

6:05

how many weeks old the fetus is

6:08

and also the fetal position which shows

6:10

which way the baby is facing inside

6:13

the uterus and this is information

6:15

that could help save the life of a mother

6:17

and her baby. So it sounds

6:19

very simple and quick and you can see

6:21

how something like this could really help in

6:23

rural parts of Africa where people are living

6:26

far away from the hospitals but how close

6:28

is this to being ready for wider use?

6:31

Yeah, so the research is still in its

6:33

very early stages and Google needs to collect

6:35

a lot more scans in its current study

6:37

for the tool to be rolled out more

6:39

widely. The models need to

6:41

see data from a wide variety of

6:44

people, so people at different stages of

6:46

pregnancy, different types of pregnancy and so

6:48

on to ensure that the models analysis

6:50

is accurate. I spoke

6:52

to Dr. Syra Gafur who's the lead

6:55

for digital health at the Institute for

6:57

Global Health Innovation at Imperial College London

7:00

and she told me just how important this training

7:02

phase is. AI is only ever going

7:04

to use data that is trained on. It's always very difficult to get old

7:08

or very good

7:10

data because this is something that could take a

7:12

couple of years to do. It may well show

7:15

that actually this is going to use an X

7:17

country but actually it doesn't work in Y

7:19

countries so that's where the testing comes in

7:21

and if you were to deploy it wider

7:23

you'd have to make sure that you're not

7:26

creating that bias. You've got to make

7:28

sure that this is

7:30

100% more proof that it's not working for you.

7:32

So seeing as only around 100 scans have

7:34

been collected in Kenya so far, this tool

7:36

really won't be ready to be rolled out

7:38

to the general population for quite some time.

7:41

They potentially need hundreds if not thousand more

7:43

scans for it to be truly accurate. And

7:46

crucially if Google wants to roll this out to

7:48

other parts of the world, they may need to

7:51

collect even more data from those populations to make

7:53

sure it will work for them. Thank

7:55

you Yasmin. Thank you. We're

8:02

staying with health tech for the

8:04

moment and another topic that affects

8:06

women, the menopause. Although every woman

8:08

goes through it, there are still

8:10

relatively few technologies on sale to

8:12

help manage the symptoms. So

8:14

why is there a reluctance to

8:17

invest in so-called menotech and

8:19

is that changing? Elizabeth Hotson reports.

8:22

The 34 plus menopause symptoms can

8:24

range from hot flushes to anxiety

8:26

and if they're severe, they can

8:29

wreck women's quality of life. But

8:31

until recently, there's been a reluctance

8:33

to research and invest in technology

8:35

to help. Elizabeth Garza is the

8:38

CEO of Boston-based tech startup Ember

8:40

Labs. She says the reasons are

8:42

cultural and financial. I

8:44

think there's a perception that when

8:46

women enter menopause, they've lost their

8:49

value to society. They're not reproducing.

8:51

Most of the people making decisions

8:53

about where investment goes are men.

8:55

The majority of the investments go

8:58

to where women are valued, which

9:00

is fertility and pregnancy. Her

9:02

company has developed a bracelet to help

9:04

regulate hot flushes and night sweats. She

9:06

explains how it works. We

9:09

emit temperature sensations to the

9:11

human skin, either heating

9:13

or cooling. And what those sensations

9:15

do is send a signal to

9:17

your brain to calm

9:20

itself down. Menopausal hot flushes are

9:22

really an overactivation of your sympathetic

9:24

nervous system or your fight or

9:27

flight response. It's not cheap at

9:29

around $300, but women over

9:32

50 have been dubbed super consumers

9:35

by Forbes. The US government consumer

9:37

expenditure survey suggests they're the largest

9:39

demographic with incomes over $100,000. Other

9:41

companies are

9:45

now recognizing the spending power, like

9:47

British-based Magnetone, which sells menopause-friendly electrical

9:49

beauty devices. Amy Nabour is head

9:52

of brand strategy and says they

9:54

have a two-pronged approach. We

9:57

just make it normal as part of the

9:59

conversation. We choose. all of the

10:01

language and everything that we talk about.

10:03

The other side is by showing menopause

10:05

ticks, logos and putting out content that

10:07

specifically talks to menopause and menopausal

10:09

symptoms. The next challenge is convincing

10:11

people that Menotech works. Some

10:14

medics are sceptical about how much

10:16

products actually help to alleviate symptoms.

10:18

The UK-based menopausal brand advisor Gen

10:20

M has created a Menopause-friendly logo

10:23

in partnership with the drugstore boots.

10:25

If a product helps with symptoms,

10:27

it can be given an M

10:29

tick. But Gen M co-founder Sam

10:31

Simister says the tick isn't a

10:33

guarantee. Everybody's menopause is

10:36

going to be different. It is

10:38

about choice and control. So it

10:40

is incredibly hard to say whether

10:42

one product works for you or

10:44

whether it won't. Products that do

10:46

deploy the M tick have followed

10:48

a process and they have the

10:50

data that then supports that they

10:53

are worthy of carrying that M

10:55

tick. The global menopause market

10:57

is expected to reach nearly $25 billion by

10:59

2030, according to

11:03

Grandview Research, and Menotech is

11:05

only just getting started. That

11:08

was Elizabeth Hotson reporting. We'd

11:22

really like to know what you thought

11:24

of our health tech stories today. Perhaps

11:26

there's a gadget that you use to

11:28

help your wellbeing. If something's caught your

11:30

attention, please tell us about it. You

11:33

can email us. Our address is techlife.bbc.co.uk.

11:35

You can also

11:37

send us a WhatsApp message. The number is

11:40

plus 44330 123 0320. Remember to tell us

11:46

your name and the country where you live, like

11:48

this listener. Hello, Trick Life.

11:51

I'm Shamsola Shabak from KBL

11:53

Afghanistan. I'm the regular

11:55

iTunes of Trick Life at BBC

11:58

Radio. Many, many things. to

12:00

all the items and all

12:02

the stuff. I'm really

12:04

happy. Bye. Warren

12:07

from Zambia emailed us to say

12:10

he's currently teaching coding and robotics.

12:12

And he's established a coding and

12:14

robotics club called Lusaka Robotics Club.

12:17

Next week he's starting an awareness

12:19

campaign about the importance of science,

12:22

technology, engineering and maths education for

12:24

children. Warren teaches children as

12:26

young as five. Well done, Warren. That

12:28

sounds like a great initiative and thank

12:31

you for contacting us. We

12:33

really enjoy reading all of your messages.

12:36

Still to come on the programme, Tech

12:38

and the Vatican, I speak to the

12:41

Pope's advisor on technology. Sometimes

12:43

methods from the Pope are

12:45

touching people that are in charge of

12:47

technology. Nothing

12:52

stays the same for long in

12:54

social media. We've seen many

12:57

changes at Twitter, now known as

12:59

X. Meta responded by launching a

13:01

text-based rival called Threads. Well, now

13:03

another rival is coming out of

13:05

the shadows and opening up access

13:08

to all users. It's called Blue

13:10

Sky. One of the people

13:12

involved in its creation was the former

13:14

Twitter boss, Jack Dorsey. Until

13:16

this week, Blue Sky has been

13:18

invite only, but not any longer.

13:20

So what's next for the platform? I'm

13:23

Jay Graber. I'm the CEO of Blue Sky.

13:26

And I run the company

13:29

and originally helped get this project started.

13:31

It originally came out of Twitter. I

13:33

never worked at Twitter. But we started

13:35

this independent company to build an

13:37

open protocol. And now here we are.

13:39

We are building an open protocol and an

13:41

app on it that looks a lot like

13:43

Twitter. And why was

13:45

Blue Sky initially invite only? Yeah, so

13:48

we've been building out the rails for

13:50

people to build on this open

13:52

protocol that the app is built on. So

13:55

what this means is basically on the surface,

13:57

this works a lot like Twitter, but it's not

14:00

controlled. controlled by a single company. On Blue Sky,

14:02

we built the foundation for anyone to build something

14:04

like that. So anyone builds a feed, not just

14:06

us. And so if you want to see pictures

14:08

of cats, there's four or five feeds

14:10

just with cat pictures. And so that

14:12

sort of infrastructure is what we've been building out over the

14:14

past year to let anyone build on Blue Sky. So

14:17

that's your main point of difference when

14:19

you compare Blue Sky to X and

14:22

even threads? Yeah, one thing that

14:24

people say is essentially the difference

14:26

here is protocols, not platforms. So

14:30

threads and Twitter are platforms that

14:33

are apps controlled by a single company.

14:36

And the idea of building on a

14:38

protocol is to make social something more

14:40

like blogs or email where anyone

14:42

can use the web and you can

14:44

put up your website on the internet.

14:47

And how are you going to get your

14:49

message about this out to people? Because it

14:51

sounds like it could be a little bit

14:53

in the weeds for just anyone

14:55

to understand the difference. And they log on,

14:57

they don't see that difference, do they? Yeah,

15:00

we wanted to build it so that you

15:02

didn't have to see this difference. So it's

15:04

all under the hood. And how it shows

15:06

up to you as a user is just

15:08

having a lot more choice. And

15:11

we've seen text-only social media

15:13

platforms emerge. We've seen, obviously,

15:15

with the issues with Elon

15:17

Musk at the top of

15:19

X, people leaving

15:21

that platform. Initially, a lot

15:23

of people signed up to threads, but

15:25

the popularity there is declining. I just

15:27

wonder why you think this is still

15:29

a good business model. I think there's

15:32

always going to be a role for

15:34

public conversation. And what we set out

15:36

to build was something that would

15:38

be an open infrastructure for

15:40

public conversations, whether that's text or

15:42

images or video. And

15:45

the app protocol later can support

15:47

more content types. It's

15:49

the language for computers to communicate

15:51

and pass data around. And

15:54

we think that this sort of real-time news

15:57

where people get to communicate with all

15:59

sorts of... Politicians, journalists, people

16:01

around the world in an open text-based

16:03

format is something that's likely to stick around,

16:05

and we'd like it to stick around in

16:07

a form where it's more resilient

16:09

than being controlled by one company. You

16:12

mentioned politicians there. I just wonder, how are

16:14

you going to attract more people so that

16:17

more valuable conversations can take place?

16:20

Because we know that a lot

16:22

of big figures are on those

16:24

existing platforms, but not on Blue

16:27

Sky. We're opening up now, so

16:29

part of the idea is to

16:31

get everything built out and then

16:33

have a broader community start

16:35

engaging and building on it. Is

16:38

Jack Dorsey, the Twitter founder, still involved

16:40

with Blue Sky at all? He's on

16:42

the board, and I think Jack really

16:45

wants an open ecosystem, decentralized

16:47

protocol to be the future

16:49

of social. So

16:51

I think he supports Blue Sky as

16:53

well as other open protocols that try

16:55

to achieve the same thing. You

16:57

see that Blue Sky is crucial

16:59

in an election year. I just

17:01

wonder why that says. We focused

17:03

on transparency and trying to find

17:05

ways to empower users better to do things

17:08

like combat misinformation. A lot of this

17:10

is very much about creating

17:12

a user-driven ecosystem, and so we've

17:14

been working with something called a

17:16

third-party labeling system. You can think

17:18

of it a bit as community

17:20

annotations, and that's something where we

17:22

can get backcheckers or use AI

17:25

to help add in labels on content.

17:27

And so this is something that we

17:29

hope becomes useful as we move into

17:31

an election year and helps users get

17:33

accurate content. So you've got an in-house

17:35

system that's going to label fake

17:37

images and videos, for example? It's

17:40

actually much like the custom feeds

17:42

we have now, where the in-house

17:44

system is the open protocol

17:46

that lets anyone build one of these. So

17:48

we'll be looking for the platform

17:51

that has the most truth on

17:53

it, given the amount of various

17:55

elections that are going on across

17:58

the globe this year. The

18:00

need is extreme to me how you than

18:02

a presents this information on blue sky yeah

18:04

this is an approach which is going to

18:06

be I think the. Collaborative.

18:08

And community driven so we don't have

18:10

the resources of something like Thread to

18:12

invest in. You know, hundreds of thousands

18:14

of on the ground people looking at

18:17

things that we do have. The. Ability

18:19

for a much larger community to.

18:21

Make interventions as soon as they see them,

18:24

and so rather than bottleneck, seeing all this

18:26

sort of attempts at to do fact checking

18:28

through our company, there's the possibility for anyone.

18:31

To run away blur and then we would work

18:33

with these to find the best ones and sort

18:35

of put them at the top. And

18:37

see what guardrails he has and place

18:39

to protect people from harmful content. Then

18:41

so the opposite it's own. Rules or

18:44

up as a community guidelines and then

18:46

we enforce Motorists in around. The Baseline

18:48

there and so basically it's and out of his.

18:50

Approach where users can player on more filters

18:53

and if they want to get away from

18:55

this sort of controls that we say and

18:57

do their own thing it's fossil for somebody

18:59

else to build another app and filter over

19:02

some of the same conference us when the

19:04

ecosystem but the key part of social sort

19:06

of what kind of space are you providing

19:09

and how are people interconnecting and so we

19:11

try to make the blue sky. A

19:13

very safe place for people interact and

19:15

you're obviously in the stick is it

19:17

as the Cu? I just wonder what

19:19

you think of the future of social

19:21

media. Well, I do think that open.

19:24

Protocols. Are the future of social

19:26

because? That's. What the web is built

19:28

on and that's what's allowed the web to

19:30

go through so many changes and stay around.

19:33

And so if we make social more like

19:35

the web again. I think will

19:37

have a much more resilient social

19:39

ecosystem. That was D V Bird

19:41

the Seal of Blue Sky talking

19:43

to me from Silicon Valley. governments

19:55

around the world are grappling with

19:57

artificial intelligence and so to regulate

19:59

it But what about the

20:01

Vatican? Clearly Pope Francis is

20:03

a busy man, but he's also got

20:06

an interest in how technology is impacting

20:08

people, much like us here on TechLife,

20:10

and he's got a special advisor for

20:12

that. I was lucky enough

20:14

to grab a quick chat with Father

20:16

Paolo Benanti, who is a

20:18

Professor in AI Ethics, a member of

20:21

the United Nations High Level Advisory body

20:23

on AI, and he advises the Pope

20:25

on all things tech. I

20:27

started by asking him if most of his time

20:29

was spent looking at the ethics of

20:31

technology. Yeah, actually a

20:34

medical approach to technology is simple,

20:36

asking which kind of displacement of

20:38

power and form of order will

20:41

be a technological artifact once it's

20:43

deployed inside the society. If

20:46

we build a bridge, well,

20:48

that bridge actually could

20:50

allow someone to pass and someone else

20:52

know. There is no neutral

20:54

deployment of technology. And so

20:56

starting this kind of technology, questioning

20:58

technology for society, that's my

21:01

help. And can you

21:03

tell me about the rule in the Vatican then?

21:05

How did you get that

21:07

particular job? Well,

21:09

actually, it's not a

21:11

job. Technically speaking, it's volunteering. But what

21:13

does it

21:16

mean? It means simple that

21:18

they use us, and when

21:20

I say us, I mean

21:22

professor, as an advisor, because

21:24

they don't have inside all the

21:26

cutting edge knowledge. And there are

21:28

these kind of figures that simply

21:30

make the bridge from academia and

21:32

the office. And I

21:34

was appointed in some of

21:37

these places to help them to

21:39

understand what's going on on the

21:41

street to help reflection on the

21:43

societal impact of technology. And

21:46

how often will you speak with the

21:48

Pope on these matters? Oh,

21:51

well, that's not according to a plan. It

21:54

happens when you say that, you know. And

21:56

if you see the agenda of

21:59

the Pope, it's really complicated, a lot

22:01

of people happen to meet the

22:03

Pope. And so it depends

22:05

who he is asking to meet, who would like

22:08

to meet him. And

22:10

when you're speaking to the Pope about

22:12

these matters, what's he

22:14

asking you? Like

22:17

with every hierarchy in

22:19

the world, it's

22:21

not like to take a coffee with someone

22:23

that is trying to view that it's a

22:25

ceremony. And sometimes

22:27

the big part of the works

22:29

is made not with the Pope,

22:31

but with Cardinals, another bishop, another

22:33

clergy that helping in the Odyssey.

22:36

Usually when you meet the Pope

22:39

is always something that is already

22:41

written in a playbook in

22:43

which you can have an occasion if the

22:45

Pope is curious or he would like to

22:48

ask you something. But the

22:50

main contribution does not happen in

22:52

that moment. Happened therefore in that

22:54

moment, that is simple, the closing

22:56

of a process. Okay,

22:59

so you're well-briefed in advance. Yeah,

23:03

yeah, you can help in a different

23:05

way. You can write something, you can

23:07

meet people, you can discuss with people,

23:09

and then you have to produce

23:11

what we can say, a shared

23:13

culture inside the system. And

23:17

does he have an interest in technology? He's

23:20

really bright to understand

23:22

what are the challenges

23:24

for society today, especially for the

23:26

most vulnerable people. If you look

23:29

on what he did, he put

23:31

on the agenda migrant, he

23:33

put on the agenda environment, and now

23:35

he's putting on the agenda AI. Three

23:38

different topics that actually

23:40

represent three huge

23:42

frontier and challenges in which

23:44

the most fragile part

23:46

of population could suffer from

23:49

what is happening. The Pope

23:51

is really brilliant in

23:53

understanding where the most

23:55

fragile people could be damaged. contribute

24:00

to the debate around

24:02

ethical artificial intelligence? Well,

24:05

look, it is one of the most

24:07

influential people around the world. There is

24:09

one billion faithful behind

24:11

him and of course

24:14

he is able to speak to the

24:16

highest people in the earth. So

24:19

it's not a matter of direct

24:21

regulation, it's a matter

24:23

of dialogue, of putting on the agenda

24:25

topics that could be not so convenient

24:27

to put on the agenda and

24:30

to give also voices to people

24:32

and process that actually could be

24:34

excluded by that. It

24:37

is interesting that when you have the biggest

24:39

meeting on economic

24:41

development in the world is

24:43

that the top player that meet and

24:47

giving to them a voice from the

24:49

people that live in periphery or

24:51

in the suburbs of the existence like

24:53

the people love to call them is

24:57

a huge opportunity to have a global

24:59

perspective and approach. And

25:01

as the envoy on AI

25:03

and someone that is

25:06

an expert on technology within the Vatican,

25:10

are you getting big

25:12

tech, people in Silicon Valley getting in touch

25:14

with you and trying to get messages

25:16

to the Pope about these issues? It's

25:19

a two way process, you know, because

25:21

something is getting out and something is coming

25:23

back and sometimes message

25:26

from the Pope are touching people

25:28

that are in charge of technology.

25:30

The most incredible thing is that

25:33

to develop this unbelievable layer of

25:35

technology, people have to spend and

25:37

commit their life to obtain something

25:40

that is really a breakthrough. And

25:43

you can catch the idea

25:45

that people don't want to spend their

25:48

life for something that could have a

25:50

better effect. So the

25:52

first that having an ethical concern

25:54

are the engineer, the

25:56

top engineer in AI company, because

25:59

they don't want to pass the The three like

26:01

someone that was trying to be

26:03

they would like to have a

26:05

positive impact from they are deep

26:07

commitment the college. And. This

26:09

is the place where it's much

26:11

more incredible how that kind of

26:14

dialogue it could produce. Changing their

26:16

seats. Things are on Now on.

26:18

What? Geico. You. Give to

26:20

them a square as by well they

26:22

haven't expressed that feeling and seen them

26:25

selves understood in the deepest concerned that

26:27

make. My thanks to

26:29

his father, pile of been anti the

26:31

Pope's adviser on technological. That's

26:39

all that have things are today. The number

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