0:04

Get in touch with technology with tech

0:06

Stuff from how stuff works dot com.

0:12

Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm

0:14

your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive

0:16

producer with How Stuff Works, and I heart radio

0:18

and I love all things tech, and it is time

0:21

for a tech Stuff Classic episode.

0:24

Today's classic episode originally

0:26

published on March five, two

0:28

thousand twelve. Chris Pallette,

0:31

my beloved original co host,

0:34

sat down with me to talk about legacy

0:37

technology. Legacy systems. These

0:40

would be old computer systems

0:42

that are no longer supported

0:44

necessarily but still need to stick around

0:47

for one reason or another. So we have our conversation

0:49

here about what legacy tech is

0:52

and why it still exists. It's in an

0:54

episode that was titled Old Tech

0:56

Never Dies. I hope you enjoy are

1:00

episode today comes courtesy

1:02

of a listener, and this one is

1:04

a message from Twitter. So

1:06

let's hear that tweeting sound

1:08

effect. I

1:11

think I actually heard our producers say, do do

1:14

out there? Tweet tweet

1:16

tweet lovely. I hope that. I

1:19

hope that's what we use. Anyway, I

1:21

won't know until I get to listen to this later. But this

1:23

comes to us from Wayne P. Seventy

1:26

two, who says I would love

1:28

to hear a show on old tech that won't go away.

1:31

I E The Facts. Well,

1:34

we are going to do an episode about

1:36

that, but not one on just

1:38

the Facts. I

1:41

wanted to do that.

1:43

You know, we might get sued. I was wondering. I

1:45

was looking at him like, is he gonna do it? He's

1:49

none our guy Friday. So anyway,

1:52

we are going to talk about technology that

1:54

a lot of people feel, or at least

1:56

some people feel, or at least we

1:58

at tex stuff feel has run

2:00

its course and yet it's still around. Yes,

2:03

and The Facts is one of those. So we actually

2:05

had a couple that we thought about that we ended

2:07

up deciding

2:10

not to include in this list, but we should go ahead

2:12

and mention them because a couple of

2:14

years ago they may have made the list. Yeah,

2:16

that's true. And it's funny because right

2:18

before we were we were going to record, we

2:20

were talking about how we had done an episode on abandoned

2:23

ware, which is stuff that, uh,

2:25

people just give up on. Yeah, usually

2:28

it's a company that gives up on it, but yeah,

2:30

it's the stuff that people no longer even bother using,

2:32

and it's just sort of part of history.

2:35

This is the opposite people

2:37

will not let go of. And the

2:39

two that we were thinking of that we did not include

2:42

because we just feel that they've both kind

2:44

of faded away enough so that

2:46

it's a very small percentage of people

2:49

that still hold onto These are pages,

2:52

which you know, sometimes some people are a

2:54

few people, especially folks

2:56

in like the medical field or whatever, we'll still use

2:58

them, but pages are pretty much been

3:00

replaced by cell phones and smartphones, and

3:04

p d as also replaced

3:06

primarily by smartphones personal digital

3:08

assistance not a public displaces of affection. Those

3:10

will never go out of style smoogy smodgy.

3:13

So those are the two that we almost

3:15

included but didn't because we feel that there's

3:17

just not enough of a population supporting

3:20

them to merit being on this list. So

3:24

since Wayne brought this up, we probably should

3:26

go ahead and start with fax machines. Yes, and

3:29

yeah, I mean the fax machine still

3:32

used in many many offices. You still see

3:34

people's facts numbers. You know, there's one

3:36

out there in the office. I've actually

3:39

used it quite a few times. Yep, yep. But

3:41

the thing is, I mean, well, it uses you

3:43

know, of course, it uses a similar imaging technology

3:45

to a scanner or

3:47

a copier machine. Um,

3:50

there's nothing really wrong with it. It Uh, you know, it

3:52

has a modem. That's the that's

3:54

part of the problem. I think it has a mote

3:56

a minute. And uh you know when you

3:58

when you scan some stuff in it saves

4:00

it in memory. These days it does anyway. You don't

4:02

have to put it in one page at a time, although you used

4:05

to, um where you put

4:07

it on there and it would it dials the number. It

4:09

makes a connection with the fax machine on the other

4:12

side, just like you would uh with

4:14

a dial up internet connection. Um.

4:16

You know, there's a handshake between the two devices. They

4:18

agree on the protocol and it says,

4:20

okay, go ahead and send your whatever message

4:23

this is going to be. And uh,

4:25

you know, the facts either takes the

4:27

information from memory or it scans

4:30

each page individually and sends it along

4:32

down the line really

4:34

slowly. Receiving machine

4:36

receives that information, decodes,

4:38

it changes it into the

4:41

type of information it needs in order to print prints

4:43

to some paper. And then you have the facts

4:45

on the other end, which somebody

4:47

puts in a tray and it never gets

4:50

to the person that's supposed to Could you ever have to use a fax

4:52

machine that had a roll of paper

4:54

as a wasted individual sheets. Yeah, they had the thermal

4:56

printers and of course that that just

4:59

curls up. Also, it's

5:03

yes, I do not miss

5:05

those days. So today

5:08

we write. What

5:10

we could do is, let's say we have a scanner and

5:12

we just scan a document in and send it

5:14

via change it over to say a PDF

5:17

format, which is readily

5:20

available. It's easy to find a reader for PDF.

5:22

A lot of free reader a free reader, and a lot

5:24

of word processing programs

5:26

and things are capable of reading

5:29

a PDF file and uh, you

5:32

just send that via email

5:34

and you don't have to worry about wasting paper or

5:36

any of that mess Or if say a fact

5:39

machine is busy with a

5:41

with a call, then you won't get a rejection

5:43

and have to try it again. That's another thing that can

5:45

be kind of irritating with sending a fact.

5:47

Let's say you've got like a twenty page facts

5:50

and you start going through and you don't know

5:52

until it's gone through all twenty

5:54

pages stored in a memory, and tried to send it

5:57

that it didn't go through successfully. Maybe

5:59

you didn't put in the numb correctly, Maybe the

6:01

machine on the other end, is not turned on

6:03

properly, or it's or it's busy,

6:06

and then you have to try and do it again. Yes,

6:09

it's so irritating, but then you know, yeah, scanning

6:12

it and sending it by via PDF much

6:15

much more paper

6:18

friendly anyway, you don't have to worry about wasting so much paper,

6:20

and also it's not so time consuming.

6:23

That being said, I still facts things

6:25

because often some of the conferences I go to

6:27

request that they send

6:30

credentials and I have to send them via fax.

6:32

Uh, not all of them except email. Plus,

6:34

depending upon your access

6:37

to a scanner or a copier that can have scanning

6:39

functionality, you may not have that

6:41

luxury. So I think fax

6:44

machine is kind of borderline on this. Because

6:47

there is technology out there that can do

6:49

stuff that would replace the fax machine.

6:52

I don't know that it's propagated widely

6:54

enough yet for it to really

6:56

happen, especially for small businesses. For

6:59

large businesses, almost all of them have some

7:01

sort of scanner or copier that can

7:04

can replace a fax machine. I think we're

7:06

on the verge really of this this

7:08

being a technology that's like that,

7:10

but it's it's far enough along

7:13

the way that you could, you could make the argument. I

7:15

think it's a value, a valid argument

7:18

to include it on this list. But there's

7:20

some other stuff I think that that merits

7:22

that hit me with one. Well, this

7:24

one is also on the verge. Landlines.

7:27

Yeah, landlines. Again, more

7:30

and more people are abandoning a

7:32

landline in favor of just having a

7:34

cell phone because you know, for

7:37

one thing, a lot of people don't want to have to deal

7:39

with two different phone bills or

7:42

have like something packaged up where they

7:44

have fewer choices. You know, there are a lot

7:46

of services out there that will package a

7:48

cell phone and landline, uh,

7:53

offering right where you can get a bundle. Yeah,

7:55

you can get a bundle, but then you are limited

7:57

to whatever options they have.

8:00

You don't. You can't just go out and say, oh,

8:02

I happen to really love this one particular

8:04

phone, I want that to go with this plan. That's

8:06

not the way that works. Yeah. As a matter

8:08

of fact, I think you see that primarily from companies

8:10

that offer both land lines, and you

8:13

know that you don't see a lot of cellphone providers going,

8:15

hey, you know what we're gonna get into the landline business.

8:17

Yeah, it's not well, it's kind of hard to edge into

8:20

that, but yeah, landlines are starting

8:22

to kind of disappear now. There are some

8:25

legitimate reasons why keeping a landline

8:27

around. It's not a bad idea, like emergency

8:30

calls. Emergency calls is a big one because

8:33

your call can be traced to your location

8:35

very easily over a landline, so that

8:38

let's say there's an emergency where you can't even

8:40

vocalize maybe, which can

8:42

happen sometimes dialing

8:44

an emergency number that's all you might be able

8:47

to do. Well with a landline, they are going to be

8:49

able to find you. With a cell phone

8:51

or smartphone, they may not be able to get

8:53

your location as accurately as they could

8:56

with over a landline or even a

8:58

voipe line. You'll find

9:00

out that a lot of voice services have issues

9:03

with calling emergency services.

9:06

That being said that you can usually get

9:08

a landline phone and plug it into

9:10

any outlet and it will still allow you to make emergency

9:12

calls even if you don't have a landline

9:15

account, so you can still make a call

9:17

to it well. In the United States, a call to nine one one,

9:19

for example, UM and the

9:22

UK, that number is really really

9:24

long one. According to the I T. Crowd and

9:26

you have to sing it to a song anyway.

9:30

Uh, yeah, I know. It's it's an episode that

9:32

anyone who's watched The I T Crowd will get that. Anyone

9:35

who hasn't, you should go watch the I T Crowd because

9:37

it's awesome or the Crowd if you prefer

9:40

anyway. The

9:42

The other reason besides

9:44

for emergencies is uh is

9:46

that it's something that if

9:49

there's a power outage

9:51

on cell service, you haven't you

9:53

have an alternate means of communication.

9:56

So not just personal emergencies, but regional

9:59

emerg agencies. It's a good thing to have. That

10:02

being said, I think there it is more

10:04

common to run into people who have

10:06

just adopted the cell

10:09

phone only approach. I

10:11

mean my household is that way,

10:13

so yeah, I can take it with you.

10:16

And you know, you you have your phone no

10:18

matter where you are, so when you're at home, you

10:20

have your phone. Well, then then the phone itself

10:23

is really for a lot of

10:25

people, and myself included, it's

10:27

it's transitioning into a device that I used

10:29

to access the Internet more than I used

10:32

to for voice communication.

10:35

Because almost all my communication now or

10:37

a lot of my communication now is through

10:39

text messages, email and

10:41

social networking services. It's it's

10:44

you know, I usually make two or three

10:46

calls a day, but they're very short, and

10:48

they're usually between me and my wife,

10:51

Um, mostly me apologizing for something

10:53

stupid I've done. I'm sorry,

10:55

baby, that's all every single conversation starts.

10:59

It's a main thing. I've actually heard one

11:01

side of that conversation before. Yeah, yeah,

11:05

it's not a rare thing. So

11:07

so do you have a list? How

11:10

about this calculators

11:12

and adding machines, because

11:16

computers do it, smartphones do it. I mean you've

11:18

got the birds and bees do it. You got a lot of calculators

11:21

built into other devices, So to see a

11:23

standalone calculator is kind of interesting

11:25

in the sense, you know, we have that, we

11:28

have the technology at our fingertips

11:30

almost all the time, So why do we need stand

11:33

alone calculators apart from scientific

11:35

calculators, which I mean calculator

11:37

A lot of a lot. Again, a lot of computers and smartphones

11:40

can do that. You just have to get the apps for it.

11:42

But I can understand someone

11:44

wanting one of those as opposed

11:46

to a phone. And there's

11:49

certain applications where I can I

11:51

can be a little more lenient. For

11:53

example, let's say that you are in a

11:56

university class and you

11:58

have a final, and you're allowed to

12:00

have a calculator next to

12:02

your your work on your final,

12:05

you might not be allowed to have a smartphone because

12:07

you might use the smartphone to cheat. Right,

12:10

So in that case, I can. That's that's a specific

12:13

case where I'm like, all right, I understand that. But

12:16

for a lot of the things that we use calculators

12:18

for, either a calculator program

12:20

on a computer or smartphone or spreadsheet

12:23

can do all of that work. Sometimes

12:25

in a way that's much easier because

12:27

you can do things like in a spreadsheet, you can copy and paste

12:29

formulas so that you don't have to keep

12:31

entering in the same thing over and over for different

12:34

calculations. You just you just cutting paste

12:36

or copy and paste rather not cutting paste. Um.

12:39

So to me though, that's another

12:42

old technology that I'm surprised is

12:44

still around, at least in

12:46

the at the level that it's

12:48

still around. How

12:50

about you gut another one? Well, um, to

12:52

stick with our earlier topic, the

12:55

phone book. Ah, yes, the yellow pages.

12:57

Why why does that exist?

13:00

Why are we killing trees? Well,

13:02

because not everyone has access

13:05

to the uh, you

13:07

know, the Internet, although

13:10

you could argue that they would also

13:12

have access to it, um,

13:14

you know, by calling and you know,

13:16

checking in with that directory assistance. I think

13:19

though that, you know, I

13:21

think that's a safe argument for printing

13:23

the phone book. Now the question is do they

13:25

need to here in the United States. I don't

13:27

know how they do it everywhere else in the world. Here in the United States,

13:29

at least where we are, they deliver a phone

13:31

book to everybody's house. There

13:33

should be an opt out, yes, what it

13:36

would be nice to have people, uh

13:38

opt in, So yes, I do want the phone

13:40

book, or really an opt out would

13:42

probably be better. But that way you can

13:45

start with, Yeah, that way you could say, you know, I've

13:47

got the Internet, I can look up stuff on their

13:49

uh, I've got all the numbers I need of the

13:52

friends I have. UM, A lot

13:54

of my friends aren't listed in the phone

13:56

book, you know, they don't want to be listed

13:58

there. So the

14:01

businesses almost all have some sort of web

14:03

presence and need that they don't. There are a lot of online

14:05

directories that take the place of Yellow Pages.

14:07

So yeah, that's one of those things where I

14:09

think I would love to not

14:12

receive that. Now, it does raise

14:15

the question that if we were to enact

14:18

that we being christened myself,

14:20

you know, because we have that kind of power. So tech

14:23

stuff enacts this thing where we were

14:25

able to opt out of the Yellow Pages

14:27

delivery. If enough people

14:29

opted out, then would that

14:31

change the economy of scale of

14:34

producing the Yellow Pages so

14:36

that producing a fewer amount

14:39

for for the people who stay in is actually

14:41

more expensive per book. And therefore it becomes

14:43

a problem, uh to fund

14:46

the printing of the Yellow Pages. Yeah, yeah,

14:49

well, of course part of the we make

14:51

it up in volume is what I'm saying. Part of the part

14:53

of the problem there is that the Yellow

14:55

Pages makes its money from

14:58

advertising. Um,

15:00

those those big ads that did you see on different

15:02

places for you know, when you go look up the plumber

15:05

or or somebody else moving company and

15:07

you see the full page ads they paid,

15:10

you know, to reach a certain number of

15:12

people. All we're going to print two million

15:14

copies of this Okay, maybe

15:16

that that's kind of large. There, We're gonna print

15:18

five thousand copies of this, UM

15:21

and so your your ad is going to be there

15:23

in everyone's home that we deliver this

15:25

to UM. If they said Okay,

15:28

well, we're only going to print ten thousand

15:30

of these books for people who really need them.

15:32

Then the advertise they can't command that kind of

15:35

price. Yeah, that's true. So you

15:37

know, I don't think we're going to be able to talk

15:39

him out of dropping them off on our door

15:41

because I promptly put them in the recycle bin.

15:44

But yeah, so here's here's a similar

15:46

thing to that, you know, in the sense

15:49

that you know, I know the reason why they're

15:51

still around. But it's kind of again

15:54

a dying thing. CDs

15:56

that you need to install programs. Yes,

15:59

and they're they're really similar when you get right down

16:01

to it. Um. In both cases, not

16:04

everyone has the technology they need

16:06

to get the information an

16:09

alternative, alternate way. But but

16:11

yeah, for a lot of people, they're buying computers

16:13

now that may not even have an optical drive, so

16:16

there's no use for that CD. It's

16:19

just it's or DVD or DVD.

16:21

Yeah, it's just taking up space

16:24

because there's no way to put that in your

16:26

machine you want. You would needs some sort

16:28

of USB drive, or you

16:30

would have to connect to the internet and

16:32

download whatever drivers you might

16:35

need for something. As opposed

16:37

to having a CD for it, and um,

16:39

I would love to see thumb drives take the place of

16:41

those just for saving space.

16:43

Plus the fact that if you can wipe

16:45

whatever is on that thumb drive off if you don't need

16:48

it, then you've got some extra storage

16:50

space. I'm not saying that I

16:52

do that frequently. I'm just saying

16:54

I've got a lot of thumb drives. Yeah,

16:57

yeah, with a lot of logos on them.

17:01

Well that we're getting towards the end

17:03

of my list, to the point where,

17:05

um, I've got

17:07

it. I've got more on here. But those are the

17:10

things that we've talked about so far. Um,

17:12

are things that we sort of think about that

17:15

um, you know why and why do people have that? Then

17:17

you realize that, well, really there are quite

17:19

quite a number of people that still depend on those, you

17:22

know, more of those real sure,

17:24

because I have CDs and DVDs in general, Yeah,

17:26

I think fall into that category.

17:29

Uh, and even blue rays at some to

17:31

some extent, Um, I think these

17:35

are not as far along say

17:37

the Yellow Pages, but uh, yeah,

17:39

I mean, and a lot of companies are very concerned

17:42

about the fact that these are technologies

17:44

that are slowly becoming obsolete

17:47

and uh, digital distribution is

17:49

becoming the the

17:52

like buzz phrase for entertainment.

17:55

Uh, and that causes concern for

17:57

multiple industries. Right.

18:01

Well, Netflix think it's awesome. Well, the thing

18:03

is, though, they tripped on it because on

18:05

this very thing, because they were ready to move to

18:08

US digital distribution to

18:10

people are not ready yet. Yeah, there

18:13

is a balance you have to strike between pushing

18:15

people toward a new technology

18:17

and writing out the waves so that

18:20

you don't alienate your customer base. Right.

18:22

But the people I think, or the organizations

18:24

I think, are really concerned with this. You have the m p a

18:26

A the r i a

18:28

A. So that's the Motion Picture Association of

18:30

America and the Recording Industry Association

18:32

America. So you've got these two different major

18:34

organizations that have lots and lots of really

18:37

big companies in them, and they're

18:39

very much concerned about this because they make a lot of

18:41

money selling physical

18:43

media, actual

18:46

physical products that have content

18:48

on them, whether the movies, television shows,

18:51

music, whatever, books, books.

18:54

So moving from that to a digital

18:56

one scares a lot of companies

18:58

for legitimate reason, legitimate reasons. We're

19:00

not saying that there. They shouldn't be

19:02

scared. Um, And then you've got

19:05

retail organizations. So

19:07

we've already seen in the United States several

19:09

retail organizations in the last few years go

19:11

belly up because they

19:13

cannot compete with the digital distribution

19:16

method. You know, it's hard to find a

19:18

record store anymore. Right, Well, you

19:21

walk into a Best Buy and suddenly all the

19:23

music and movies aren't front and center

19:25

like they used to be. You know, it used to

19:27

be that as soon as you walked into the store,

19:29

all of that was front loaded right there

19:32

at the very beginning of the store, so you had

19:34

to walk through it. Well, as

19:36

digital distribution gets more and more popular, that

19:38

section moves further and further back in the store.

19:41

And there's a reason for that. It's because you

19:43

can't have that be the focus

19:45

of your store when that whole business

19:48

model is starting to deteriorate. So

19:52

I put that along the same lines as the installation

19:54

CDs and the Yellow Pages. It's

19:56

just it's not quite far as far along.

19:59

I mean, again, if you don't have

20:01

a broadband connection, then physical

20:03

media is the way to go, because you just you

20:05

cannot physically get the information you

20:07

need to be able to watch the content or listen

20:09

to the content you want and a a good

20:12

enough quality. Otherwise you're gonna be buffering

20:15

every thirty seconds. Trust me, I know

20:17

what I'm talking about. Until

20:19

recently that was me. Yeah. Um.

20:23

Then there are other technologies that I

20:25

think kind of died out and then came back.

20:28

Well, there's one that needs

20:30

to go, especially here in the United

20:33

States. Hit me incandescent lightbulbs.

20:36

It's a good one. I didn't have that on my list. Yeah,

20:39

the good old light

20:41

bulb that has its roots and um

20:44

Edison's and other people's work. A lot of people

20:46

say that Edison didn't actually invent a lightbulb.

20:49

Um he improved upon a design.

20:52

Yeah, well he was instrumental though

20:54

and getting it into our homes without

20:56

Without him, whenever we had a bright idea, we'd

20:58

have no way of putting, uh, some sort

21:00

of indicator around our heads to let people

21:02

know we had a bright eye down. Yeah, you know, you don't

21:05

he didn't hear that little ping noises sort of. Yeah,

21:07

and the little light bulb be

21:09

like it would be like something like you know, a

21:11

tweet anyhow.

21:15

Um. Yeah, they I mean they use a

21:17

lot more electricity, they give off a lot

21:19

more heat, um with

21:22

you know, wasted energy. Um and

21:24

and other products have come along that are superior

21:26

toward it to it, like fluorescence

21:29

and L E. D s. Yeah, of course fluorescence. Now

21:31

they have their own problems. Of course there is mercury

21:33

in them. Uh, you don't want to just

21:36

go around smashing fluorescence on the

21:38

stuff. And LED expensive.

21:41

Yes, so LEDs are very expensive,

21:44

but they last a whole lot longer and use a

21:46

lot less electricity. Um,

21:48

so you know, they're still we're still in that transition

21:50

phase, but we don't have

21:53

to use incandescence in Some societies

21:55

have already outlawed them. The United

21:57

States is moving away from them, and of course it's

21:59

a big country. They're lots of people. Unfortunately,

22:01

they're dirt cheap. Yes, yes,

22:04

that's that's the you know, when you

22:06

get the economics involved, people might

22:09

say, I understand why

22:11

you want us to move away from these, but these are affordable

22:13

to us. Even if you present the argument

22:16

of well, a fluorescent light bulb

22:18

is going to last longer, therefore you're going to have to buy

22:20

fewer of them, and then the economy

22:22

ends up paying out in the long run.

22:25

Some people are living in a short term

22:27

kind of lifestyle through

22:30

no fault of their own they are. They

22:32

cannot look that far ahead

22:34

because that's not the way the economy works

22:37

out for them. I've been there too. I've

22:39

been in that situation where it's paycheck

22:41

to paycheck, and you do you

22:43

think, Well, I would love to be more

22:46

environmentally friendly, and I would love to have

22:48

something that's going to last longer, but I

22:51

honestly cannot put that in my budget.

22:54

Right. It's tough. It's not going to be much

22:56

longer though, Nope. Before there's

22:58

no choice in the matter. So yeah,

23:01

that's a good one. Uh, well, there's the

23:03

technology I was talking about that that essentially

23:06

died out and has been never

23:08

really died out, but it definitely faded

23:10

away and then has come back. Do you know what I'm talking about? Do

23:12

you mean the operating system that just won't die?

23:15

No, I'm not, But we can talk about that. Okay.

23:17

Hey, it's Jonathan from two thousand nineteen

23:20

busting in here to this two thousand and

23:22

twelve episode to say we got

23:24

more to say about legacy tech. But first let's take

23:26

a quick break to thank our sponsor.

23:36

So you're talking about XP, Windows

23:38

XP, Windows XP. Alright, So Windows XP

23:41

was one of those things that got widespread

23:43

adoption, particularly in the business

23:45

world. Well, it was such an improvement on his predecessor,

23:48

you know Windows two and

23:50

uh yeah, I mean it's it's a it's

23:53

a functional system. Let's you know, let's

23:55

face it, you know, taking everything aside. If you you

23:57

put all the operating systems together on a table,

24:00

XP is a great operating system. It's

24:02

it's in general, it's pretty stable. There's

24:04

a work course, it's a workhorse. So many

24:07

companies have standard on XP, standardized

24:10

on XP that they're they're comfortable with it,

24:12

and that I think is the reason it's stuck around

24:14

is really the corporate world. Um,

24:18

you know, I used to work for a company that would stay

24:20

one generation of Windows back from what the

24:22

cutting edge was because everything was

24:24

stable. They got it where it was working. They had thousands

24:26

of people to support, and they wanted

24:28

to make sure all the service packs were out before they

24:31

would update to the next operating Yeah, if you

24:33

had if you have thousands of employees

24:35

for your company, then you want you want something

24:37

that's going to be stable because if you start having failure,

24:39

is you're going to spend more time responding

24:42

to two problems than you can't

24:44

doing business, and that's just not a very

24:47

smart way of doing things. So staying

24:49

with a tried and true system makes

24:51

sense. This is somewhat complicated

24:53

by the fact that even though we're at Windows seven,

24:55

so we're two generations beyond Windows XP.

24:58

Now Windows Vista has us stigma

25:00

on it about being an undependable,

25:05

over inflated, difficult

25:07

to use operating system. Now, some

25:09

of the problems that Vista had early on

25:12

were addressed by Microsoft, you

25:14

know, so it's it's a different system than

25:16

it was when it debuted. But that

25:18

being said, that first impression was so

25:20

negative that a lot of companies just that

25:23

was that's where they drew the line is that we are not

25:25

going to Windows Vista because it's just too many

25:27

there are too many problems. Beyond that,

25:29

though, a related related

25:32

term to this outdated technology

25:34

idea is the legacy system.

25:38

So a legacy system is a is

25:40

any kind of system, doesn't have to be technology,

25:43

But in technology, what we're talking about is some

25:45

sort of system that is a

25:47

core component of the way

25:50

a business does business,

25:52

and you want to keep

25:54

that core component going, and replacing it would

25:57

mean having to

25:59

to too well,

26:02

reinvent a an enormous amount

26:04

of your business. So let's

26:06

say you've got some sort of computer program

26:08

that is instrumental to what you do,

26:11

and it runs perfectly on Windows XP.

26:13

That's the that's the foundation that it was built

26:15

for. So then when the new operating systems

26:18

come out, they may not support that legacy

26:20

system, so you are forced to

26:22

stay with an older operating

26:25

system or else you can't do business.

26:28

So that's one reason why a

26:30

lot of the companies are still on Windows XP. They

26:32

have some sort of program,

26:34

software application that

26:37

runs on XP and will not run on anything

26:39

else, And in order for them to be able

26:41

to run on something else, they'd have to pour so

26:43

many resources into building a

26:45

new tool that does the same thing that they're old

26:48

tool, which is still working perfectly fine

26:50

for what they need. It just doesn't

26:52

make sense. You know, that much time, money,

26:54

and effort. You can say, well, we could

26:56

put that towards this and then update all our systems

26:59

and then hope everything works, or we could stick

27:01

with what we have and just conctentrate doing business.

27:04

Yeah, and you know, if you if you have Windows

27:06

seven at home and XP at

27:08

work, you may be frustrated by this, but that you're not

27:10

really the person that is

27:12

the most frustrated. The people who are most

27:14

frustrated by this are the ones

27:16

working in Redmond, Washington at

27:19

Microsoft who have been trying to convince

27:21

both uh, you know, the the casual

27:24

user and the corporate user to

27:26

switch over to Windows seven. And

27:28

the thing is Windows XP just works.

27:31

Yeah, they know. Microsoft has

27:34

stopped supporting it and then and

27:36

they're they've they've basically said, look, we're not going

27:38

to do anything for you. They don't distribute it anymore.

27:40

Really, it's an eleven year old operating

27:42

system. That said. In

27:45

researching this yesterday, Jonathan and I ran

27:47

across some very interesting news. Good grief.

27:50

There's an article in zd net Australia that

27:52

quoted statistics from net applications

27:57

in December and Windows

27:59

XP is the dominant operating system out

28:01

there. It had forty six point five

28:04

of market share and

28:06

in January it

28:09

had forty seven point one nine market

28:11

share. Windows XP is growing,

28:14

is continuing to increase an adoption

28:16

rate. Excuse me for a second while I banged my

28:18

head against the microphone. Now carry

28:25

on, um So

28:27

anyhow, Vista is in

28:29

third place among the Windows

28:31

operating systems and Windows seven is

28:33

increasing as well. Um,

28:36

but imagining

28:38

that an operating system has been discontinued

28:41

is technically no longer supported, you

28:44

know, and it's increasing

28:46

in market share. That's kind

28:48

of impressive. Ya, That's

28:50

not the worst of it, though. That's the

28:52

XP story is is that's

28:55

that's kind of mind blowing.

28:57

But that's not the most mind blowing story you sent

28:59

me. No, no, no, And and this is the thing

29:01

is these these two are tied together. And those

29:03

of you in the know are gonna go, oh,

29:05

um, but but no. The reason I

29:07

mentioned XP first is because Windows

29:10

XP works. It

29:13

does what it's supposed to. It's stable, it's

29:15

pretty secure. But in contrast,

29:18

contrast, there's another technology

29:20

that Microsoft would really really really

29:23

really like to see end of life by

29:26

everyone, and for very

29:28

good reasons. And

29:30

yet it also increased in market

29:32

share. Please please

29:35

go ahead and reveal what it was. Internet

29:39

Explorer six. Uh.

29:45

Internet Explorer six also increase

29:48

in adoption rate. Um

29:51

so Internet Explores six Now that words

29:56

fail me really, um,

29:58

they've they've Microsoft tried

30:00

its best to kill Internet. It's

30:03

not it's it's not a safe

30:06

system to use. It's not. And websites

30:08

will warn you when you go on there

30:10

are websites that you can't see

30:13

if you have Internet Explorer six, you

30:15

try and go to that website and you won't be able

30:17

to view it. Please, if you're using i E

30:19

six, update, please please

30:22

try anything, try the newest version of Internet

30:24

Explorer. We're not even telling you to switch

30:26

brands. You can. You can update

30:28

to the latest version of the Internet Explorer

30:31

and it is going to be a world of difference. The

30:33

only reason I could see anyone using i

30:35

E six is that they have a machine

30:38

too old to run anything better.

30:41

Yeah, yeah, well there are some

30:44

The reasons to use legacy systems

30:46

in a lot of cases have to do with a specific

30:49

tool. Yes, if you are so.

30:52

Let's say that you've got a corporation and that

30:54

corporation has an internal network.

30:57

An intranet is not an Internet,

30:59

and at in order to access this Internet,

31:02

you need to use a specific kind of browser because

31:04

it was built to support a specific

31:06

type of browser. Then I could

31:08

understand as well having Internet Explorer six. I

31:10

would pity that person because that is

31:12

a miserable experience, but

31:15

that could be the case. You

31:17

could have a corporate system where let's

31:20

say you need to go in and manage things

31:22

like a digital timesheet, or

31:24

you have to request some vacation

31:26

time or sick time, or you're doing something

31:29

like you're changing your You might even

31:31

be putting in things like an employee

31:33

record into an company's

31:35

Internet system, and the only way

31:38

you can access it is through an outdated browser.

31:40

Um. There are plenty of systems

31:43

that are like that. I've seen lots of

31:45

them where they will tell you don't

31:48

use any other version of any other

31:50

browser because some of the functionality

31:52

will not work. If you use it. You

31:54

might be able to see some stuff and access some

31:57

of the stuff that's on the

31:58

the corporate Internet, but you're not gonna be able to

32:00

get the full run of it unless you use

32:03

this particular browser. Yeah,

32:06

yeah, see yeah. An article

32:08

in Ours Technica UM published

32:10

on February first, twelve said

32:12

that in January, uh Internet

32:14

Explorer grew more, its market

32:17

share grew more than any other browser.

32:19

In fact, Chrome went down a little bit, but

32:21

the biggest share of that growth

32:24

for I E was in i E six. So

32:29

so, um, people

32:31

are going to write in to tell you that that was really loud,

32:34

um, But anyway, uh

32:37

yeah, it felt kind of and I understand

32:39

to see. The thing is that one of the things that's common

32:41

about most of these technologies is that

32:44

UM there there's

32:46

some good reason why some people are

32:48

gonna want to use it. You know, perhaps you have a machine

32:50

that just won't go any it

32:52

won't run Vista or or

32:54

Windows seven or Windows eight. Uh, you

32:57

have a machine that that where are you have

32:59

an internet where you I need to use I E six

33:01

to run it otherwise it won't

33:03

work A

33:06

O L is the Internet? Yes, that's

33:08

possible. I mean for the lightbulb thing. The

33:11

socket fits the same size.

33:13

I really don't have it. They're cheap.

33:15

There is a reason to use that. The thing

33:17

is that the majority of

33:20

people still using UM I E six

33:22

and Windows XP. The

33:24

majority of those people probably are not

33:26

doing it because their computers are slower, because they

33:28

are reliant on a legacy system. It's probably

33:30

more because their corporation, their

33:33

corporation won't let them right,

33:36

or they just don't know. Yeah, there are a

33:38

lot of people who just have don't have They

33:41

just don't know that there there's a better

33:43

way out there to them. They've associated

33:45

specific kind of browser with that's the

33:47

Internet. It's not a browser

33:50

you use to access the Internet. To note that

33:52

is the to them, that is the Internet. It's

33:56

or a little box of a little blinking line

33:58

on the top. It doesn't weigh anything. It's

34:00

kept up top of big ben Yeah,

34:03

this is this is definitely the type of water

34:05

cooler thing where you stand around and go, yeah, why do people

34:07

still use that? I mean there in general,

34:09

there's a reason why people still use some of these

34:11

things, but why why some of them are so

34:14

widespread is another question. I still have a few

34:16

more. Yes, there's

34:18

the one that I had said had died out but came

34:20

back. This No,

34:24

this is one thing. This is a different

34:26

one, and this is one that didn't really die out either.

34:29

It's one of those where it's more for nostalgias

34:32

sake, I think than anything else. The Dreamcast

34:34

Vinyl Oh yeah, so

34:38

vinyl records is what we're talking about, not not the material

34:40

vinyl, but vinyl vinyl record albums. So

34:43

yeah, something you would play on a record player. Uh.

34:46

There are people who argue audiophiles

34:48

who will argue that the vinyl gives

34:50

the best, truest sound to

34:53

whatever the original recording is, and

34:55

there are others who say that that's a bunch of bologny

34:57

that if you are using the proper digital equipment,

35:00

there is no humanly detectable

35:02

way of differentiating the two.

35:04

I'm not going to go into that too much

35:06

because it's it's

35:08

frankly, it's something that I would need to see a lot

35:11

more studies on because there

35:13

are lots of different arguments to either

35:15

side, and there are certain people out

35:17

there who have very very finely attuned senses

35:20

of hearing that might be able to

35:22

detect those differences. I'm not one of them. I

35:24

do not have a great sense of hearing,

35:27

so perhaps the fault is on my

35:29

me and not on the technology.

35:31

But still, it's interesting to me that vinyl

35:34

has never really gone away,

35:36

considering that a lot

35:38

of the the trend

35:40

has been to favor

35:43

convenience over perceived quality,

35:46

right, because when MP three has got really popular,

35:49

a lot of them were recorded at terrible bit rates

35:51

and you were losing a lot of information, and

35:53

in some cases that was detectable, and you

35:55

could tell that you were losing some of the highs and lows.

35:58

There wasn't a whole lot of variation

36:01

between the lowest of the lows and the highest of the highest, so

36:03

you weren't getting a really dynamic sound like you

36:05

could with a better recording. But

36:07

today that's not as big an issue, right,

36:10

Well, with people having higher bandwidth

36:13

connections, Uh, they're more willing

36:15

to do that because you're you're able to

36:17

include some of the frequencies that, um,

36:20

you know make this sound richer. Yeah.

36:23

Um, but yeah, that's that's one of those where I'm

36:25

just surprised now. That being said, I own a

36:27

lot of vinyl folks, well a vinyl fan, and

36:29

there's a um,

36:32

there's a better resurgence and manufacturing

36:34

vinyl, yeah, which is funny because the equipment

36:37

almost completely died out. Yeah, there was

36:39

a there's a time in the late eighties

36:41

and into the nineties where finding a

36:43

turntable was if you weren't if you weren't

36:45

buying DJ equipment, it was pretty much.

36:48

Yeah, it was you had to go to like some sort

36:50

of hobby store or like an audio file.

36:53

Yeah, And now now you can find them all

36:55

over the place. In fact, I see them like I've seen

36:57

plenty of ones that you plug in via USB

37:00

to a computer where you can rip things to MP

37:02

three or you can actually just listen to it over

37:04

a computer. Or plug it into

37:07

another sound system. Yeah,

37:09

it's so it's started to it's

37:11

been enjoying a resurgence nowhere

37:14

near what it was when that was the way

37:16

to listen to music. Yeah, you know, I don't want

37:18

to give the wrong impression, but it has

37:21

come back from what look like it was. It

37:23

looked like it was going to go extinct. Yeah, and a lot

37:25

of a lot of independent bands have been

37:28

recording and releasing their records on vinyl

37:30

pressing because, uh,

37:33

truth be told, it's not as as expensive

37:35

as you might think. Um, so,

37:38

you know, it's it's enjoyed a resurgence in

37:40

in popularity for bands

37:43

as a you know, hey, look how cool we

37:45

are we have a vinyl record. Yeah. It's kind of a gimmick

37:47

almost, by the way, Yeah for some folks.

37:50

Yeah, Jonathan two thousand

37:52

nineteen. Again, I'm busy making my

37:54

own legacy. So while I do, why

37:56

don't we take a quick break to thank our

37:58

sponsor. I

38:07

also wrote down typewriters because they still

38:09

have not died away. I

38:12

haven't seen a typewriter in public in a

38:14

long time. No, but I used to work

38:16

in an office that still used typewriters

38:18

to fill out forms instead of trying to create

38:20

digital forms. They still had physical forms

38:23

and physical typewriters that you had to use to fill

38:25

out the forms. It was not that long

38:27

ago, so I have them down

38:29

here. I mean, maybe they've died

38:31

out in the five years since I joined

38:34

how stuff works. It's possible.

38:36

That's that's long enough. But I have

38:39

a feeling that if I went back to this office, I'd still find

38:41

that typewriter and it would be mocking

38:43

me as it always did. Um.

38:46

And then let's see, do have anything

38:48

else? Like, yes, there is something

38:50

else I have? Uh

38:54

scheduled television? Yeah,

38:57

because now we've reached a point where with

38:59

the uh the invention of DVRs

39:03

and with streaming services

39:05

like Hulu and Netflix, the

39:08

the importance of a TV schedule

39:10

has decreased dramatically. Right

39:13

like back in back in the day, you

39:15

would have to plan your night around

39:18

around your stories if

39:20

you wanted to watch television. So if you wanted

39:22

to watch, you know, a particular sitcom,

39:24

you had to be there in front your TV at eight

39:27

pm on a Thursday night, or else you weren't

39:29

going to see it, or you

39:31

had to set a VCR to tape

39:33

it. Later on you could do that. But

39:36

before that, even you know, before

39:38

VCRs became household items,

39:41

you know. Yeah, and that's another one,

39:44

TOCR. But VCRs are pretty much

39:46

on them, they're pretty much dead. VCRs

39:48

are almost dead. So but yeah, the scheduled television

39:50

stuff. Before there were VCRs, the only other option

39:53

you had was to set your kid down and tell have the

39:55

kid just act out the entire episode

39:57

when you got home, so you could find out

39:59

what ha and on MASH

40:03

I know, I know season seasons two

40:05

through four like the back of my hand.

40:07

Anyway, Uh yeah,

40:10

the but

40:13

yeah, that Now we have DVRs

40:15

and we have streaming services. Even DVRs

40:17

now are starting to kind of reach

40:20

a point where I think a lot of people are are moving

40:22

away entirely from

40:25

worrying about recording stuff

40:27

that's on the air right now. One

40:29

thing so many of them come out on DVD later

40:32

or or in some of their form is a collection to

40:35

catch up on an entire series now

40:38

all at once, if you wanted to. Yeah, so

40:40

I think, uh, I think that's one of those

40:42

dying technologies. And you know, that's a tough

40:44

one because again that's that's another one that's

40:46

industry that that will

40:48

completely change industries, And

40:51

anything that's going to completely change an industry,

40:53

it's going to be a tumultuous

40:56

and and and drawn

40:58

out of fair It's not so thing that happens

41:00

very quickly, usually unless it's

41:02

catastrophic, but normally

41:05

it's gonna take a while. There's gonna be a lot of resistance.

41:07

We're seeing that there's a lot of resistance to it for a good

41:09

reason. Again, because the economies

41:12

that are involved are huge, and

41:14

the considerations you have to make are enormous,

41:16

and you know the fact that there's just not as much

41:19

there's not as much money streaming

41:21

to the to the internet as there would

41:24

be going through a cable or broadcast

41:26

approach. Right, It's just it's

41:28

that's the truth. There's not as much money there. And

41:31

if you've got a big corporation

41:33

that requires a lot of money to generate

41:35

the content that it makes, that

41:38

raises some very tough questions where

41:40

do you start making cuts? Do you do

41:43

make huge cuts? And the corporate personnel

41:45

do you also have to make huge cuts? And the production

41:48

costs for your shows or your movies.

41:50

There's been a lot of discussion about that recently,

41:52

with with movie blockbusters

41:55

about whether or not the blockbuster

41:57

itself is perhaps an outdated

42:00

concept, and perhaps it's we've

42:02

we've really pushed the concept

42:04

of blockbusters so far that they are having

42:07

these massive, overinflated budgets,

42:09

and maybe it's time to stop that

42:12

and really focus on making

42:14

movies a different way where it's more efficient

42:17

and economical, and maybe

42:19

the focus isn't so much unspectacle. That's

42:21

a totally separate argument, but

42:24

it does at least tangentially

42:26

tie into this idea of the

42:28

scheduled TV event where we

42:30

don't have to be in front of our sets at a

42:33

set time in place anymore, you

42:35

know, we can we have a lot more flexibility

42:37

to get entertainment on demand,

42:40

with the exception of things like live events

42:42

like sports like that. So

42:45

I think that that is definitely on

42:48

the bubble, you know, in a in another

42:50

maybe five or ten years, uh,

42:52

scheduled TV is going to be kind of

42:54

a thing of the past. Um

42:57

with the exception of live events. Well,

43:00

I think too that that's gonna require um

43:03

more people to have availability of

43:05

the technology, you know, because

43:07

not everyone can afford a DVR or

43:09

even more broadband internet. But we're

43:12

starting to see that stuff being built into

43:14

the television sets themselves. So

43:16

again, in five or ten years, you're going to have

43:18

the average TV set sold at

43:20

whatever store you go to is going

43:23

to have a lot of Internet connectivity

43:25

stuff built into it. Now, that doesn't

43:27

solve the problem of broadband penetration. If you

43:29

don't have broadband penetration, it doesn't matter

43:31

how advance your TV is, you're not gonna be able to get

43:33

that content. But assuming that

43:35

the broadband penetration problem has been

43:38

addressed enough so that

43:40

there is this transition, then

43:42

I think we do see uh

43:45

an end to the scheduled TV approach.

43:47

And you just want your Louis, you turn your television

43:49

on, you say, I want to watch this

43:51

one particular program. I

43:54

want to watch this one particular episode, and

43:56

it pulls it up and it may be that it's a subscription

43:58

based thing, and maybe it's a per episode

44:01

payment thing. I'm not saying that it's gonna be

44:03

free all the time, but it's definitely going

44:05

to be a different model than what we're

44:07

used to right now, will you know? It will

44:09

no longer be like, you know, oh,

44:11

it's Thursday night. This is when these

44:14

my my favorite three shows. Come on, it'll

44:16

be Hey, I got home, it's time to watch my favorite

44:18

show. Okay, So

44:21

and I think that's Let me look and did I

44:23

miss anything on my list? No, that's all the things

44:26

I have on my list. Not that not

44:28

to suggest that that's the only outdated technology

44:30

we have that we rely on on a day

44:32

to day basis. Well, if people have their

44:35

you know, a favorite outdated technology that they

44:37

didn't think made our lists

44:39

for good reason, then they should write

44:41

us and let us know. I mean, there's plenty of other stuff we can talk

44:43

about, like like cold powered

44:46

power plants, that kind of stuff, right

44:48

where we could say, look, there are alternatives

44:50

that we could look into that maybe more

44:53

environmentally friendly. But even so, these

44:56

have their own sets of restrictions

44:58

and problems. Um,

45:00

but yeah, you could argue that saying like,

45:02

hey, look at the state of the world. Isn't

45:05

isn't like anything that burns fossil

45:07

fuels isn't that outdated? And I

45:10

would agree with you in the sense

45:12

that I think we really need to move to things that

45:14

aren't going to be as as dangerous

45:16

to the environment. But the reality

45:18

of the situation is a bit more complex

45:21

than just saying, hey, this is an old way

45:23

of doing things. And that

45:25

wraps up that classic episode

45:27

of tech Stuff. I hope you guys enjoyed

45:29

it. If you have any suggestions for current

45:32

or even future episodes of tech

45:34

stuff, why not get in touch with me. Send me an

45:36

email. That's tech stuff at how stuff

45:39

works dot com. Dropped by the

45:41

website that's tech stuff podcast dot

45:43

com. Make sure you go to the merchandise store

45:45

that's t public dot com slash tech stuff,

45:48

and I will talk to you again really

45:51

soon for

45:57

more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

45:59

it how stuff dot com