Episode Transcript
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0:04
the summer of 2014,
0:06
i was in iraq kurdistan
0:09
with a team of
0:11
archaeologists, finishing
0:13
season the the field excavations near
0:15
the border town of halabja a
0:19
project was looking into something
0:21
which is and then treats
0:24
me ever since i began, studying theology,
0:26
with told to believe
0:29
that thousands of years ago when
0:31
our ancestors first invented,
0:34
agriculture in that part of the world
0:36
that it's set in motion a chain of consequences
0:40
that would save our modern world
0:42
in a particular direction on
0:44
a particular
0:45
the whole
0:47
farming week iran
0:50
sisters supposedly developed
0:52
new attachments to the land they lived on
0:55
private , was invented and
0:57
with that the need to defend
0:59
it it with new opportunities
1:02
for some people to accumulate
1:04
surpluses came new
1:06
labour demands tying most
1:08
people to a hard regime the
1:11
pending their crops while
1:14
a privileged few receive
1:16
freedom the leisure the
1:19
do other things to think
1:22
the experiments the creates
1:24
the foundations of what we refer
1:27
to civilization the
1:29
according to this familiar story
1:31
what happens next is that
1:34
population spoons villages
1:36
turned into towns tens became
1:38
settings and with the emergence of cities
1:41
are species was locked on
1:44
a familiar trajectory of
1:46
developments worth spiraling
1:48
populations and technological
1:51
change would sound up
1:53
with the kind of dreadful inequalities
1:56
that we see around us today
2:00
is
2:02
anyone can tell you he's looked at
2:04
the evidence from the middle east almost
2:08
nothing of what i've just been saying
2:11
he's actually
2:12
true
2:14
the consequences i'm going to
2:16
suggests a quite profound actually
2:20
what happened after the invention of agriculture
2:23
around ten thousand years ago the
2:26
long period of around another
2:28
four thousand years in which villages
2:31
largely remained villages
2:33
and actually there's very little evidence for
2:35
the emergence of rigid social
2:38
classes just not to say that
2:40
nothing happened that
2:42
is full thousand years technological
2:44
change actually proceeded hey
2:48
without things without bureaucracies
2:51
without standing armies these early
2:53
funding populations of that
2:56
the development of mathematical knowledge
2:58
advanced mythology they
3:00
learned to cultivate all it's
3:02
vines and date palms they
3:04
invented leavened bread
3:07
in
3:08
they develop textile technologies
3:10
the process we'll the sale they
3:13
spread all of these innovations far
3:15
and wide from the shores of eastern
3:18
mediterranean up to the black sea
3:20
and from the persian gulf the
3:23
way over to the mountains
3:25
of kurdistan where
3:28
are excavations were taking
3:30
place i've
3:32
often referred half jokingly to this long
3:34
period of human history the
3:37
the era of the first global
3:39
village because it's not just
3:42
the technological innovations the the so
3:44
remarkable but also the social
3:46
innovations which enables people
3:48
to do all these things without
3:50
forming senses and without
3:53
raising up a class of permanent
3:55
leaders over everybody else
3:58
the only enough
4:00
this efflorescence of culture
4:03
that's not what we usually refer
4:05
to the civilization
4:09
instead that term is usually
4:11
reserved for horsemeat
4:14
unequal societies which came
4:16
thousands of years later dynastic
4:18
mesopotamia several next each
4:21
imperial rule societies
4:23
that was deeply stresses
4:25
of it the sort i've
4:29
always felt that there was basically something
4:31
very weird about our
4:33
concepts of civilization
4:36
something that leaves this loss for words
4:38
tongue tied when we're confronted with
4:40
thousands of years of human beings
4:43
say practicing agriculture
4:45
creating new technologies that
4:48
not loading it's over each other
4:50
or exploiting each other to
4:52
the maximum why don't
4:54
we have better words whereas our lexicon
4:57
for those long expanses of human
4:59
history which we once the
5:01
hazing that way
5:04
over the past ten years or more i
5:06
worked closely together with
5:09
the late great anthropologists
5:12
david grab to
5:14
, some of these questions
5:17
but we did a summer months large scale because
5:19
from our perspective as an archaeologist
5:21
and and anthropologists anthropologists
5:24
clash between siri
5:26
and data between the standard
5:28
narrative of human history and the evidence
5:31
that we have before us today it's
5:33
not just confined to the early
5:35
middle east the
5:37
everything the whole picture
5:40
of human history that we've been selling for centuries
5:43
basically wrong
5:45
try and explain a few more
5:47
the reasons why let's
5:49
go back to some of those core concepts
5:52
the stable reference points
5:54
around which we've been organizing
5:57
and orchestrating our understanding
5:59
of world the street the hundreds of years
6:03
take for instance that notion that
6:05
for most of it's history the human
6:07
species lives in tiny
6:09
egalitarianism bands of hunter gatherers
6:12
until the advent of agriculture
6:15
ushered in a new age of inequality
6:18
or the notion that with the arrival of
6:20
cities hang social
6:23
classes sacred
6:25
kings and rapacious
6:28
oligarchs trampling everyone else
6:30
on the from a very
6:32
first history lessons with taught
6:35
to believe that our modern
6:37
world with all of its advantages
6:39
and demeanor six modern
6:41
healthcare space travel all
6:43
the things that a good and exciting
6:46
couldn't possibly exist without
6:49
that original concentration
6:51
of humanity into larger and larger
6:53
units and the
6:56
relentless build up of
6:58
inequalities that came with it
7:00
inequality the taught
7:02
to believe the necessary
7:05
price of civilization
7:09
so then what are we to make
7:11
of the early middle east perhaps one
7:13
might say that was just a very very very
7:15
long lag time for thousand
7:17
years before all these developments
7:20
took place inequality was bound to happen
7:22
if is bound set in system
7:24
matter of time that
7:27
the rest of the story so works
7:29
for other parts of the world well
7:33
let's think a bitch about what we can
7:35
actually say today about
7:37
the origin of cities surely
7:40
you might think we'll see appearance
7:42
of cities came the appearance
7:44
of social classes think
7:46
about ancient egypt with
7:49
it's pyramid temples shanghai
7:52
china with it's lavish tunes
7:55
the classic maya with a warlike
7:57
rulers the inca
7:59
m there with it's mummified kings
8:02
and queens actually
8:04
the pics of these days is not so clear
8:07
what modern archaeology tells us for
8:09
example they were already
8:12
cities on the lower reaches
8:14
of the yellow river over a thousand
8:16
years before the rise of the shirt
8:19
and on the other side of the pacific in
8:21
peruse real superior we
8:24
already see huge agglomerations
8:26
of people with monumental architecture
8:29
four thousand years before
8:31
the income in
8:34
south asia for and a half thousand
8:36
years ago the first cities appeared
8:38
at places like mahindra dot harper
8:42
in the indus valley but these
8:44
huge settlements present no
8:47
evidence of kings queens
8:52
no royal monuments
8:54
know aggrandizing arts and what's more
8:57
we know that much of the population
8:59
lives in high quality housing
9:02
with excellent sanitation not
9:04
that the black sea in the
9:06
modern country of you crazy archaeologists
9:10
have found evidence of even more ancient
9:12
cities going back six thousand
9:14
years the gain you
9:17
settlements then no
9:20
evidence of authoritarian
9:23
room
9:24
no temples palaces
9:27
the even any evidence of central storage facilities
9:29
or top down bureaucracy actually
9:33
what we see in those cases are these great
9:35
concentric rings at houses
9:37
arranged rather like the inside
9:39
of a tree trunk around neighborhood
9:42
assembly holes stay
9:44
that way for about eight
9:47
hundred years
9:51
the what this means is that long before
9:54
the birth of democracy in ancient
9:56
greece they were
9:58
already well the nice cities
10:01
on several of the world's continents
10:03
which presents no evidence for
10:06
ruling dynasty some
10:08
of them also seem to have managed perfectly
10:10
well without three
10:13
mandarins and warrior politicians
10:16
course summer we cities
10:18
did go on to become the capitals of
10:20
kingdoms and empires but
10:23
it's important to note that others wins
10:25
in completely the opposite direction
10:29
the take one well documented example
10:32
around the year two hundred and sixty
10:34
a d the city
10:36
as tennessee walk come in
10:38
the valley of mexico with a population
10:40
of around one hundred thousand people
10:43
haven't spanish
10:45
pyramid temples and human
10:47
sacrifices and reconstituted
10:50
itself as a vast collection
10:53
of comfortable villas housing
10:56
most of the city's population
10:59
when archaeologists first investigated
11:01
these buildings a they assumed
11:04
they were palaces than they realize
11:06
that just about everyone in the city
11:08
living in a palace with spaces
11:10
patios and some sort drainage
11:13
isn't gorgeous murals on the walls
11:16
what we shouldn't get carry the way none
11:19
of the the societies that i've been describing
11:22
was actually egalitarian
11:26
then we might also remember that sensory
11:29
essence which we look to
11:31
was the birthplace of democracy
11:33
there's also a militaristic
11:36
society i wanted on
11:38
chattel slavery where
11:40
women were completely excluded
11:43
the politics
11:45
the maybe by comparison somewhere like to
11:47
to walk on this not doing so badly
11:49
at keeping the genie is inequality
11:52
in it's possible that maybe we can just
11:54
forget about all that we can look away stamps
11:57
all of these things i'm talking about are
11:59
basically
12:00
the pliers
12:03
maybe we can still keep our familiar
12:05
story of civilization intact
12:09
the after all it's cities
12:11
without rulers were really such
12:13
a common thing in human history why
12:16
didn't cause hurts and desire
12:18
of and all the other countries the doors many
12:22
they began their invasion of the americas
12:24
why did they find only moctezuma
12:27
a , loading it's over the
12:30
empire's
12:32
that's not true either
12:35
actually the city where have another
12:37
cortez found his military allies
12:39
the ones who enabled his successful
12:41
assault on the as tech capital
12:44
of finished his lung was
12:46
exactly one such city
12:49
without rulers an
12:51
indigenous republic the name
12:53
of plus color calvin
12:55
by an urban parliament which had some
12:58
pretty interesting initiation rituals
13:00
for would be politicians they'd be
13:03
periodically whipped and subject
13:05
to public abuse by their constituents
13:07
to sources break down their egos
13:10
some mindless
13:12
is nearly and chance the
13:15
little bit different from what we expect
13:17
about politicians today an
13:19
archaeologist by the way of also works
13:21
at this place to scholar excavating
13:24
the remains of be pre conquest city
13:27
and what they find those really remarkable again
13:30
the most impressive architectures not temples
13:32
and palaces well
13:34
appointed residences of ordinary
13:37
citizens of raid along these grand
13:39
terraces overlooking
13:42
district pluses
13:44
and it's not just the history of cities
13:47
that mobile archaeological
13:49
science is turning on it's head
13:53
we also know now that the history of human
13:55
societies before becoming of agriculture
13:57
is just nothing like what we want to much
14:01
from this idea of people living all the time
14:04
and tiny bands of hunter gatherers
14:06
actually what we see these days is
14:08
evidence for a really wild
14:10
variety of social experimentation
14:13
before the coming of farming in
14:15
africa sixty thousand years
14:17
ago hunter gatherers were
14:20
already creating suits
14:22
networks social networks
14:24
covering large parts of the continent
14:26
in ice age years twenty five
14:29
thousand two years ago we see evidence
14:31
of individuals singled out
14:33
for special brand variables
14:36
that bodies seized with ornamentation
14:39
weapons and even what looked like regalia
14:42
as we see public buildings constructed
14:44
on the bones and tusks
14:46
of woolly mammoth and
14:49
around eleven thousand years ago in
14:52
the middle east west started hunter
14:55
gatherers constructed enormous
14:57
stone pimples at
15:00
a place called go back lit test
15:02
if in thirty
15:05
the north america
15:07
long before the coming of maize farming indigenous
15:09
populations created the massive
15:12
earthworks of poverty point in
15:14
louisiana capable of hosting
15:16
hunter gatherer of public's in their thousands
15:19
and been japan again long
15:21
before the arrival of rice farming the
15:23
storehouse's of santa maria
15:26
much could already hold rate surpluses
15:29
of wild plants since know what
15:31
all these details amount to
15:33
what is it all mean the
15:35
very least i'd suggest it's
15:38
really a bit far fetched these days
15:40
to cling to this notion the
15:43
invention of agriculture then
15:46
a departure from some egalitarianism
15:49
eden or to cling to
15:51
the idea that small scale societies
15:54
are specially likely to be egalitarian
15:57
while large scale ones must
15:59
nasa
15:59
the really have things presidents
16:02
and takedown structures of management
16:05
there are also some contemporary implications
16:07
take for example the commonplace notion
16:10
that participates hurry democracy
16:13
is somehow natural in natural small
16:15
community or perhaps an
16:17
activist groups but couldn't possibly
16:19
ever scale up for anything
16:21
like the city the
16:23
nation or even a reach actually
16:27
be evidence of human history if
16:29
we prepared some look at it the
16:32
opposite cities
16:35
and regional confederacy's held
16:37
together mostly by consensus
16:39
and corporation existed
16:42
thousands of years ago stop
16:46
creating them again today
16:48
with technologies that allow
16:51
us to overcome the friction assistance
16:54
and numbers perhaps
16:56
if not too late to
16:58
begin learning from all this
17:00
new evidence of the human past
17:03
even to begin imagining,
17:05
what other kinds of civilization?
17:08
we might create, we
17:11
can just stop this
17:15
particular was is
17:17
the only one possible
17:19
thanks
17:21
very much
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